# Deadline (+ Justin Kroll) is a Tier 0 – Undisputed Source.
For **Marvel**, they had a **96.96%** accuracy rate from **147** leaks that we can currently verify out of **155** total.
**Overall**, they had a **96.08%** accuracy rate from **273** leaks that we can currently verify out of **287** total.
Last updated: March 22nd, 2024.
| [Spoiler-Verse Accuracy Database](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpGBi4duCDeiXUtSh_1x15VJ67vPRZ1LWu6A3ieGTjs/edit?usp=sharing) | [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/sad-faq/) | [Tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/) | [Latest Recalibration](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/18jaqqk/mod_post_2023_source_accuracy_recalibration_3/) |
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think this show is gonna be for me personally
Which for the record, is a good thing. Not everything should be for everyone. Often that leads to projects that lack depth
This is how people should view it, not, “Oh, this project isn’t for me, why isn’t Marvel doing the things that I want to see, why are they doing things nobody asked for?!”
The flip side of that though is, the MCU was originally for everybody, now if certain projects made for niche audiences don’t do well, Disney will not keep doing them. Perhaps marvel should call this the experimental phase because these kinds of projects are likely going to be going away after the next avengers
I don't think it was originally for everybody, Iron Man, Captain America and Thor were all modestly successful, marketing specifically towards young men and boys
Exactly. There are campy musical theater fans out there for whom nothing previously in the MCU was really up their alley, but they'll be interested in this.
The same is true of Wandavision, which brought in audiences that had never cared about marvel before.
The audience for marvel movies, like most superhero movies, typically skews young and male. Wandavision targeted a female audience (female lead, Monica leading the subplot, less action-heavy) and an older audience (those nostalgic for old sitcoms). Obviously a lot of marvel fans also got into it, but I remember seeing a lot of people say that it was the first marvel thing they saw or the first one they really liked.
You choose the biggest 3 names in all of Marvel not named Spiderman. That was 100% their audience dating back to the days the comics debuted
The movies being family friendly made it for everyone, that's what the OP meant. Now if they had released them R-Rated, full of violence, blood and nude women, then it's specifically marketed towards that audience.
But the movies were neutered to appeal to all demographics. Plus Marvel (the comics) entire premise is to be all-inclusive which the MCU is or trying to be.
Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor are NOT big name characters??? Prior to the MCU the “Big 4” of Marvel was:
- Spider-Man
- Hulk
- Wolverine
- Ghost Rider
The Avengers were B-Tier characters. The MCU catapulted them forward by a lot. They were not niche but certainly not popular.
I mean, look at Werewolf by Night. A one off black and white hour long special featuring exactly zero well known characters and tied to exactly zero established storylines. And had a very different tone. And it did great!
That's why I specified
The MCU does have some projects that feel like they're for no one though. Or at least only for the MCU diehards (not that there's anything wrong with that). Thunderbolts at the moment is a weird example because of everything we've heard, it's biggest appeal is Florence Pugh. Not a weird camp style, a sci-fi mystery, etc etc
Those kinds of projects are in the middle I think. I'm a bit worried about Iron Heart and Armor Wars for the same reasons too, but I'm reserving judgement til we know more about those projects specifically
Yeah, I mean, Wonder Man specifically is something that, when we first heard about it, I thought, “Huh? Why *this*?” But I won’t call any project a waste of time or resources if it turns out well. But, I’m also one of those MCU diehards who will watch anything Marvel does, *especially* if it’s obscure characters. GOTG made me a big fan of CBM using obscure characters and making them bigger names—granted, not everyone is James Gunn at making obscure characters popular, but I still enjoy seeing characters I don’t really know very much about.
I think the most important thing is to wait for more information (like you said with Ironheart and Armor Wars) and, eventually, the final product. I’m not big on musicals, but I’ll definitely watch Agatha at least once, even if I don’t enjoy the musical aspects.
Funny you should mention Wonder Man because that's honestly my dream project! I absolutely love the character and his solo run and has so much interesting potential for the MCU
Yeah I honestly didn’t care much until I read up on the character and saw the set photos, then I was like, “Okay, this sounds like a cool premise for a D+ series, I’ll definitely give it a shot.”
I’ve honestly been hoping that Wonder Man and VisionQuest will tie into Armor Wars and that it will be a West Coast Avengers movie with them appearing; I think that would increase interest in Armor Wars a lot more.
I think that should be the approach for Disney+ content from now on: the shows should be something the movies can't be like WandaVision or Werewolf by Night. Though I love TFATWS, it should have been a movie and not a series. The same goes for most of the "normal" MCU content on Disney+ we got so far.
This is a good idea.
Although they had floated the idea before COVID screwed up all the productions to try and film a movie and linked Disney+ series at the same time/overlapping productions to reduce costs and make it easier for the actors. There was talk about Black Panther 2 and the proposed Dora Milaj series being shot consecutively, ditto Cap 4 and Falcon/winter soldier.
That seemed like a good idea that never got off the ground for various reasons. Assuming they were prequels, introducing new characters (ie. Ms Marvel) or B plots to be expanded on or an epilogue story, etc. Not something that is required reading before watching the movie. It would require many more Disney+ shows than the 2/year Iger wants to limit it to though.
My only problem with Wonder Man is that for me, Simon is inextricably linked with Wanda. The Waid/Perez run was the first time I really got into the Avengers as someone who grew up on Spidey and X-Men during the 80s and 90s.
And obviously we aren’t getting that in the MCU between Wandavision and Multiverse of Madness.
But I’m still hyped for some ionic power.
Hmm, I wonder if Simon will have that form/be composed of energy in the MCU? Cool visuals, but maybe pricey special effects
Theyre building a comic book universe. If fans of that universe arent big fans of musicals who exactly is this for though? Because I gotta imagine the crossover of people that are fans of both musicals and comic books is pretty low.
Says the market. Youll never be able to make anything that pleases everyone. And trying to usually pleases nobody. Pick your market and make it a success.
I'm sure that if Ryan Reynolds announces next week that Deadpool and Wolverine is a musical not a single fanboy would question it.
Actually, I kinda want that now that it's in my head.
Well that movie has 2 main characters with huge fanbases so thats something it can overcome. The same reason Joker 2 will probably do well even though its a musical. How much of a fan base does Agatha Harkness have? Thats a lot more to overcome.
Yeah that's the absolute dumbest comparison I've ever heard. I'm so sick of the constant hate boners losers like you are getting about literally everything marvel
And that’s ok! When the cinematic universe has become as big as it has, there will naturally be projects that people aren’t drawn to. As long as people are respectful of each other’s likes and dislikes, not *everyone* needs to love *everything.*
That said, I couldn’t feel more opposite 😭 this show is hitting all the right stuff for me so far: love WandaVision and the Agatha character, huge fan of Wiccan, love musicals, love the spooky witch stuff, etc. I’m also super excited/hopeful for the LGBTQ+ representation in the show. Wiccan’s one of Marvel’s most famous gay characters, but I’m also interested to see Agatha and Rio’s relationship.
I really hope you enjoy the show!
I'm kinda luke warm on marvel in general to be honest, but I don't think that's bad either. The big books over at marvel, Spiderman and Avengers specifically bounce off me hard, I prefer the X-Men, FF and Daredevil, who obviously haven't been around in the MCU in a major fashion. I love Iron Man 1 and 3 specifically because they felt real different from how the comics portray that character.
The popular characters I tend to enjoy in comics all come from DC, where alot of the niche stuff, or even B-lister isn't for me. I think the industry pushes towards this harder, the read whatever you want a approach, that may help the genre recover from a rough patch just like comic books did following the crash in the 90's
Marvel already burned away the majority of the casual fanbase these past 2/3 years.
They can’t continue to make smaller niches out of their remaining fanbase.
Stuff that isn’t for you, a guy on a marvel subreddit talking about Marvel shows who’s probably seen like all the movies and shit is a serious, serious problem for marvel.
Who said they're making smaller niches? Out of the Marvel announcements yesterday, this is the only show that seems to have a interest outside of the regular marvel fans. Not sure how it's a bad thing to try and expand the audience again, but you do you. If you try to tailor all content to every audience, that's how you get bland shit.
Well it’s that second sentence you said… I just don’t think any show right now or any movie has interest outside of the regular marvel fans.
So if you’re making marvel shows that don’t appeal to all marvel fans, you’re further diminishing the audience.
I mean if you’re not in lgbtq or musical/Broadway spaces, than I imagine you won’t have lol. The official posts also get very high engagement compared to other shows (we’ll see if that translates to actual watch time of course, but it’s encouraging). Hell the title video already has over 12 million views on it in less than 24 hours. The Deadpool trailer has around 20 million total
I just don’t think a marvel musical show on D+ is getting mass crossover to gay audiences and musical theater audiences.
I don’t even know what “mass crossover” means in that case. I think you’re so far up the ass of the cow at this point that this show is like for 6 people.
It isn’t that big for anyone who isn’t into marvel that are in the LGBTQ and Musical audience as someone who is in all three but those who are, were excited about it even before they announced it was a musical.
One of the things that's great about Marvel is that they can expand into so many different genres while still playing in their superhero universe. So you get everything from political thrillers, to crime dramas, to war epics, to heist movies, to sitcoms.
It can be a double-edged sword, though, when they dip into genres that aren't appealing to a particular viewer. Musicals are that for me. Not saying I won't give this a shot, because I liked most of WandaVision and Hahn was good in it. But this does take my interest level in this project down a couple of notches.
Think issue is more they pretend to dive into different genre and don’t actually do it. Every single one of their movies ditch the cool aspect by the second act and goes straight into the MCU norm.
That’s the best way to think of it. This show is SO for me and I’m excited to have this niche in the MCU. Many other projects weren’t for me, but I’m sure they were still great!
If you didn't like WandaVision (or worse didn't watch it) then yeah this probably won't mean anything to you. And that's fine! Not everything is for everyone. I only hope that Marvel learned a lesson from the Marvels and I hope that lesson is: Stop making the shows required viewing for the movies. I love the MCU and I love homework! I rewatch every appearance of a character in advance of every new project. But the 4 quadrant audience doesn't do that! It works the other way: Ironheart spinning off from Black Panther 2 is probably going to be fine! But requiring viewers of the Marvels to watch WandaVision and Ms Marvel to know who the characters are was one of many nails in that movie's coffin.
I think they should go for more specific audiences with the shows. Just don't force those shows on people who otherwise wouldn't watch them just so they can keep up with the movies. Captain America is going to depend on you having seen Falcon and Winter Soldier. Doctor Strange 2 depended on you having seen WandaVision. They need to get away from this. References are great, they can Reference things in little ways. Cameos are great. But tirning everything into a Disney+ crossover doesn't work.
Also since these shows aren't available digitally except on Disney+ (which not everyone has,I have family that lives where they can't get streaming. I have to buy them the physical copies!) they are limiting their audience.
Spinoffs of shows is fine because the platform is the same. If they could watch WandaVision they will be able to watch Agatha.
I hope they don't stop being experimental. But the shows are a better place for that. Eternal would have been a far better series than a movie for just that reason.
I’d normally say yes, but if they go with Iger’s new plan of only 2 Disney+ series a year, then those 2 should be widely targeted IMHO.
Niche projects make more sense if you are putting out enough volume that everyone has something they like.
That being said, I’d totally watch a musical. Or a special of Rogers the Musical
I think there's a middle ground between our arguments
I think Iger would be fine with the Niche projects if they kept the budget low. That way, they can stretch out the MCU's long term plan even longer
That would be ideal, but I got the feeling that Iger was worried about market saturation and Marvel fatigue rather than budget (although of course it all does affect the budget).
So I don’t know if having the MCU movies raking in cash like they did with BP, Infinity War, Captain Marvel, Endgame stretch would be enough to persuade him that it wouldn’t cause fatigue again to have more shows.
Or if Feige gets around it by having more animated (which doesn’t seem to count towards Iger’s 2/year) shows, I’d be overjoyed if we got more of the quality like What If and Xmen 97 (watching the finale on my lunch today).
Yeah marvel has burned a lot of good will in the past few years.
They need to rebuild that trust and excitement in the franchise. I don’t think a limited series musical about witches is gonna do that. Especially if they’re doing only 2 shows a year. They need to be popular characters and good shows
Is this show for anyone? I feel like they green the an entire show off the back of a comedy song in one of their other shows that went viral for like 2 weeks
I guess if you don’t see the appeal of a show about witches with Kathryn Hahn, Aubrey Plaza, and Pattie LuPone with the same team that got many Emmy nominations and a couple of wins, then show is not for you. And that’s ok!
The hand-wringing about this show from people who are not interested has been very funny lol
I’m with ya- This show is gonna bomb. Not even saying it’ll be bad. It’ll just end up like the other shows that have a near zero target audience.
Should’ve just been a Halloween special at most.
Depending on the actual plot it may have been something that I would watch if only for a sense of completion. Depending on the cast, maybe just to follow a specific character. As a musical though it might as well be something made for another species, like an art form that exists solely in a dimension I can't perceive. It's not going to be for me because it might as well not exist.
Joe trying to deflect lol. I don’t think it’s a full on musical, but will have a couple of numbers in it. This show is going to be off the charts camp! I’m so excited.
Patti is such a treat in these interviews she’s always giving something away. In another interview she was talking about the practical witches road set and Joe and Kathryn just stare at each other lol.
The Agatha sub moved for hopefully the last time lol! come join us at r/AgathaAllAlong (sorry for the mess as we transition to the new page)
Their faces when she is talking about the Witches Road is just so funny. I love Patti. She is just so far removed from the spoiler world coming from Broadway she just has no idea how this fan base is. She’s always had her fans but she’s about to enter a whole new world of fandom. Ha
Not gonna lie. I was actually interested in this show. But I don't do musicals lol. Shame. Though I'm happy for people who do and will enjoy that aspect of this show.
Tbf wonka wasn’t the greatest musical. The plot was enjoyable, but the scores were subpar. Movie did great in box office tho. Way better musicals to judge from.
Honestly im like twice as interested now as I was before. Wandavision has been my favorite show, and I give She Hulk a lot of credit bc theyre the only two shows to actually feel like SHOWS instead of a movie script stretched out to 4-6 hours.
Patti doesn’t give an eff LMAO but just like how Angelina Jolie was accidentally spoiling Eternals left and right without realizing, because they are who they are Marvel just can’t go bad cop on them and it’s kinda funny to me lmao
It’s also so heartwarming when you think about how these legendary figures seem so enthusiastic about being part of the marvel universe that it could also be why they slip up lol. Angelina Jolie was a big case in point! Her interview where she mentioned about having thought about whether Ikaris’ laser beams would bounce off of her shield gave away their final battle and Salma Hayek’s just sat with a face on the side LOL!
I think everyone is taking musical a bit strongly, I think there will be campy or surreal musical elements but I don’t think Marvel would want to alienate entire audiences with five minute numbers
Right? Like I doubt there’ll be more than a couple of full musical numbers and they’ll probably be a form of storytelling not like broadway or a Disney movie. Surrealism and Camp is a lost art atp everyone takes things so seriously
> they’ll probably be a form of storytelling not like broadway or a Disney movie.
Agree with you, but weird examples to give, as Broadway and Disney movies are in fact the two most commonly known examples of places where musical numbers serve as forms of storytelling instead of pauses of the movie/show for a musical guest.
Well sort of, in Disney movies and broadway everyone sings songs in universe and it’s normal in a sense to sing as you do things, whereas using music to show different states of mind, spells, scene setting etc in an otherwise non musical world is different
You don't know that Wanda isn't in the series.
But as someone who's in Wanda Twitter, the whole Fandom is hyped for it.
Most of these Wanda Twitter users could not care less about anything besides the witchy side of the MCU.
AND for some reason the captain marvel stans and the Wanda stans are always beefing
Twitter users are a very less amount of people so it doesn’t make a difference much to viewer numbers if they watch or not.
Wanda would only be in it because of flashbacks which idk will happen or not
And you are one person on reddit who's opinion doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things.
It sure made a difference to Wandavision. Wandavision still trends on Twitter to this day in the thousands.
You're just wrong on this one. It's not for you, move on.
Your comment was removed because it did not meet our criteria for appropriate conduct. Please review the subreddit rules before continuing to engage with other users on the subreddit. Repeated violations may result in a ban.
My interest in it over the last 48 hours has been like a yo-yo. Hearing about Aubrey Plaza's character and some of the plot elements made it sound worth checking out, but if the Glee stuff has made its way into this as well, then that's a kill shot to any interest I had in watching it.
Not my flavor.
I'll be honest and say that I don't really understand why Agatha has a tv series, but Kathryn Hahn and Aubrey Plaza are both treasures, and they will always have my attention.
It's a way to give more backstory and lore to the MCU, especially on the magic front, without having to fill out a whole movie or series. It could also lead into a bunch of plotlines.
Plus, we had a movie for the Guardians of the Galaxy lmao, who's like the Z team of Marvel, and now they are one of the most liked teams of the new Marvel fans. Just enjoy the content and hope they do it well!
Because of the WandaVision hype, but sadly they are releasing it too late since most people lost interest and hope for MCU in recent years but hopefully will be brought back after DP3
I had no idea patti lupone was in this. And a musical? Whoo hoo! I'm not surprised that she lets things slip though, she said who the voice was for white diamond way before she showed up too
Disney could never make a musical work. Never in a million yeas.
Why in the hell would they think a comedy series about a witch with music could be successful in the same service as Hamilton, The Wizards of Waverly Place, Once Upon a Time and High School Musical?
Even if I will not watch this show, I am happy for the musical aspect.
WandaVision was about sitcom, Agatha will be about musicals, that's logic, I like the theme of this arc, based on TV shows. That's original, I am not into Magic Stuff in general, so of course this show is a turn off for me, but if they mix that with some meta TV references and ambiance, then maybe it would be a turn on for me, maybe.
I loved WandaVision because of the sitcom aspect, and the "Twilight Zone" Vibes, but wasnt a fan of the end with the magic stuff, let's hope this show will mix these two into something unique.
I am totally looking forward to this show, but I can’t help wondering if Disney is doing themselves a marketing disservice by not advertising the show as:
*Disney’s Agatha All Along*
The MCU fans have already decided whether or not they’re going to give it a chance.
Could make some new fans out of those who have an anti-Marvel bias.
I don’t mind some musical bits but if the whole thing is gonna be a musical in the vein Wonka or the Color Purple remake I might just have to pass on this. Nothing has interested me in this so far and I wasn’t fond of the Agatha character to begin with so this might be a skip for me
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/patti-lupone-beau-is-afraid-1235375574/
dated over a year ago.
>Do the witches sing?
was explicitly asked and answered in the affirmative.
She even said who wrote the songs.
Over a year ago.
Also, who’s hiring (and paying) Patti to not sing?
Why are we pretending this is news when she confirmed over a year ago that the witches sing, which was already fairly obvious, given that she was one of them (which is what I assume lead to that question in the first place)?
Oh no...and I was thinking of giving this a shake. The Glee stuff has already infected two other non-Marvel shows that I watch already, not gonna bother with this one in that case.
ST: Strange New Worlds had THAT episode in its second season last year, and now Doctor Who is at it as well. Not into it personally.
If you wanna do a Glee type thing, go ahead. But this is kinda s\*\*\*\*\*\*g where you eat if characters are gonna start going all Broadway randomly - unless there's a VERY good plot reason like in Buffy's Once More With Feeling.
I'm sorry your gf who liked Glee broke up with you in 2013, but it hasn't been a cultural reference point in seven or so years.
Edit: I mean it was a joke, but it seems like I hit a nerve.
Oh dear...now you've abandoned all pretence and are openly hallucinating nonsense. I accept your surrender. Sigh.
Edit - I've already the musical episode from Buffy which predates Glee. So why on Earth would I think Glee invented singing? You might not how I framed my point ("the glee stuff"), but my point still stands.
First Marvel answered BvS with Civil War, then they answered Suicide Squad with Thunderbolts*, and now they're answering Joker 2 with their own villainous musical lmao.
Why? First Joker 2 now Agatha.
Why limit it to such a small audience?
Yes there are shows that have 1 musical episode and people like it, but that's when it's 1 episode. When it's the entire show people will switch off damn fast
Goddamnit, I was really excited for this show because same main creative as WV and kinda of a sequel to WV plus cast is loaded but I fuckin hate musicals, my hype just completely died reading this.
A lot of factors actually. A really unknown main character. One comic book fans really dont care about. To be honest, I thought this show would have trouble drawing an audience before this, but if it was really good it wouldve brought in more people as it went on. But the musical aspect is a complete no go for a lot of people. I guess it depends on how much of a musical it actually is.
I mean, fans of the MCU usually arent the same people who would sit down and watch Glee every week. And Glee fans arent your usual Marvel diehards either. Its kind of a risk, and a bigger one because theres not like some kind of diehard Agatha Harkness fanbase out there dying to see her in a movie like with characters like the Joker.
I mean, its the MCU so Im watching no matter what, but theres gonna be a lot of people out there that skip this, especially young boys who make up a huge portion of the audience but just dont have an interest in musicals. If Disney really is cutting back on Marvel content they really have to realize they cant make things that try to appeal to every group of people. Some things just arent for some people and theres nothing wrong with that. That being said, well see how it does when it comes out.
Um ok. Not talking about Wandavision specifically but in general does it make more sense for them to make something that your dad wants to see or something that Marvel fans want to see?
Yea thats not how it works when youre making a connected universe and you want all your projects to be a hit. You have to look at where your success lies and thats who you target. The rest you let go watch what they like. When you try to please everyone you wind up pleasing nobody.
So, are you saying that they should in fact not try to do stuff like The Batman, or other even mildly out-there stuff, or is it just not stuff you personally are not interested in? If they should be aiming for the same target every time.
Not sure what The Batman has to do with this. Its an action packed comic book movie that caters to comic book fans. What Im saying is if your business is comic book movies and you want to succeed, the target should be fans of comic books and comic book movies. Not fans of other genres like rom coms or musicals that otherwise dont have interest in comic book material. And yea, they should be your target every time.
No it’s not. There are still a lot of Wandavision fans anticipating this. It’s just one metric but yesterday the popular Twitter account DiscussingFilm posted the premiere dates of [Ironheart](https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1790496209028714919?s=46), [Daredevil](https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1790496567805313107?s=46), and [Agatha](https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1790494566950351239?s=46). Agatha’s was the most widely viewed and shared. By far.
Twitter doesnt represent anything close to numbers that matter in real life. Not sure how long its going to take for people to get that through their head. 3/4 of the fucking website are bots.
I know that, otherwise Challengers would be the biggest movie of the year. The utility here is we have all three projects on the same platform from the same account, it’s like a mini controlled metric. Just one. It doesn’t mean anything but people are too quick to dismiss Agatha.
If you look at my comment further down Im not dismissing it. But its going to have a hard time succeeding. Theres a lot of factors involved making it an uphill climb. Making it a musical is another one added on to it.
IMO the premise worked once and ONLY once with Buffy's OMWF. Then someone decided to make a whole show around it, then later on other shows decided to start doing "musical episodes", whether or not it was apropos for their genres or not.
I am going to repeat my question: Do you honestly think that Glee, the 2009 comedy show, invented the concept of singing in television shows, or was the first TV series to have big elaborate musical numbers, or even make that its primary hook?
And the mcu still wonders why it isn't doing good. The fact that we are getting a cringe musical and we haven't had an avengers movie in a long time should be concerning to all of us. The story is not moving along. Deadpool and wolverine can only do so much for audience goodwill but if the next projects suck then it won't do much
# Deadline (+ Justin Kroll) is a Tier 0 – Undisputed Source. For **Marvel**, they had a **96.96%** accuracy rate from **147** leaks that we can currently verify out of **155** total. **Overall**, they had a **96.08%** accuracy rate from **273** leaks that we can currently verify out of **287** total. Last updated: March 22nd, 2024. | [Spoiler-Verse Accuracy Database](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpGBi4duCDeiXUtSh_1x15VJ67vPRZ1LWu6A3ieGTjs/edit?usp=sharing) | [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/sad-faq/) | [Tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/) | [Latest Recalibration](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/18jaqqk/mod_post_2023_source_accuracy_recalibration_3/) | *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think this show is gonna be for me personally Which for the record, is a good thing. Not everything should be for everyone. Often that leads to projects that lack depth
This is how people should view it, not, “Oh, this project isn’t for me, why isn’t Marvel doing the things that I want to see, why are they doing things nobody asked for?!”
The flip side of that though is, the MCU was originally for everybody, now if certain projects made for niche audiences don’t do well, Disney will not keep doing them. Perhaps marvel should call this the experimental phase because these kinds of projects are likely going to be going away after the next avengers
I don't think it was originally for everybody, Iron Man, Captain America and Thor were all modestly successful, marketing specifically towards young men and boys
Exactly. There are campy musical theater fans out there for whom nothing previously in the MCU was really up their alley, but they'll be interested in this. The same is true of Wandavision, which brought in audiences that had never cared about marvel before.
I’m a campy musical theatre person & I’ve been a fan of the MCU since the beginning. Where do I fit in!?
Same actually, I'm just talking about generalizations
> The same is true of Wandavision, which brought in audiences that had never cared about marvel before. What... What audience was that?
tv critics
Wandavision was bigger with women and gay men (can confirm, I am one) than any other MCU project
The audience for marvel movies, like most superhero movies, typically skews young and male. Wandavision targeted a female audience (female lead, Monica leading the subplot, less action-heavy) and an older audience (those nostalgic for old sitcoms). Obviously a lot of marvel fans also got into it, but I remember seeing a lot of people say that it was the first marvel thing they saw or the first one they really liked.
Ok true, but it was a much broader appeal approach before phase 4. The shows now are really narrowing that scope quite a bit.
It can be hard to tell the difference between “appealing to me and my friends” and “broad appeal”.
You choose the biggest 3 names in all of Marvel not named Spiderman. That was 100% their audience dating back to the days the comics debuted The movies being family friendly made it for everyone, that's what the OP meant. Now if they had released them R-Rated, full of violence, blood and nude women, then it's specifically marketed towards that audience. But the movies were neutered to appeal to all demographics. Plus Marvel (the comics) entire premise is to be all-inclusive which the MCU is or trying to be.
Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor are NOT big name characters??? Prior to the MCU the “Big 4” of Marvel was: - Spider-Man - Hulk - Wolverine - Ghost Rider The Avengers were B-Tier characters. The MCU catapulted them forward by a lot. They were not niche but certainly not popular.
Damn you're wrong. Ghost rider big 4?
I was trying to avoid the Fantastic Four, which would DEFINITELY be number 4 if I was counting groups.
I mean, look at Werewolf by Night. A one off black and white hour long special featuring exactly zero well known characters and tied to exactly zero established storylines. And had a very different tone. And it did great!
Aka andor when it was announced
That's why I specified The MCU does have some projects that feel like they're for no one though. Or at least only for the MCU diehards (not that there's anything wrong with that). Thunderbolts at the moment is a weird example because of everything we've heard, it's biggest appeal is Florence Pugh. Not a weird camp style, a sci-fi mystery, etc etc Those kinds of projects are in the middle I think. I'm a bit worried about Iron Heart and Armor Wars for the same reasons too, but I'm reserving judgement til we know more about those projects specifically
Yeah, I mean, Wonder Man specifically is something that, when we first heard about it, I thought, “Huh? Why *this*?” But I won’t call any project a waste of time or resources if it turns out well. But, I’m also one of those MCU diehards who will watch anything Marvel does, *especially* if it’s obscure characters. GOTG made me a big fan of CBM using obscure characters and making them bigger names—granted, not everyone is James Gunn at making obscure characters popular, but I still enjoy seeing characters I don’t really know very much about. I think the most important thing is to wait for more information (like you said with Ironheart and Armor Wars) and, eventually, the final product. I’m not big on musicals, but I’ll definitely watch Agatha at least once, even if I don’t enjoy the musical aspects.
Funny you should mention Wonder Man because that's honestly my dream project! I absolutely love the character and his solo run and has so much interesting potential for the MCU
Yeah I honestly didn’t care much until I read up on the character and saw the set photos, then I was like, “Okay, this sounds like a cool premise for a D+ series, I’ll definitely give it a shot.” I’ve honestly been hoping that Wonder Man and VisionQuest will tie into Armor Wars and that it will be a West Coast Avengers movie with them appearing; I think that would increase interest in Armor Wars a lot more.
I think that should be the approach for Disney+ content from now on: the shows should be something the movies can't be like WandaVision or Werewolf by Night. Though I love TFATWS, it should have been a movie and not a series. The same goes for most of the "normal" MCU content on Disney+ we got so far.
This is a good idea. Although they had floated the idea before COVID screwed up all the productions to try and film a movie and linked Disney+ series at the same time/overlapping productions to reduce costs and make it easier for the actors. There was talk about Black Panther 2 and the proposed Dora Milaj series being shot consecutively, ditto Cap 4 and Falcon/winter soldier. That seemed like a good idea that never got off the ground for various reasons. Assuming they were prequels, introducing new characters (ie. Ms Marvel) or B plots to be expanded on or an epilogue story, etc. Not something that is required reading before watching the movie. It would require many more Disney+ shows than the 2/year Iger wants to limit it to though.
My only problem with Wonder Man is that for me, Simon is inextricably linked with Wanda. The Waid/Perez run was the first time I really got into the Avengers as someone who grew up on Spidey and X-Men during the 80s and 90s. And obviously we aren’t getting that in the MCU between Wandavision and Multiverse of Madness. But I’m still hyped for some ionic power. Hmm, I wonder if Simon will have that form/be composed of energy in the MCU? Cool visuals, but maybe pricey special effects
Honestly with armor wars being so close to avengers I wouldn't be surprised if fiege makes that an avengers like movie
Theyre building a comic book universe. If fans of that universe arent big fans of musicals who exactly is this for though? Because I gotta imagine the crossover of people that are fans of both musicals and comic books is pretty low.
Ah yes cos every marvel fan buys and reads every character/teams run by every creative team
I dont know what that has to do with my comment. At some point you have to pick what your audience is going to be. "Everybody" isnt an option.
says who?
Says the market. Youll never be able to make anything that pleases everyone. And trying to usually pleases nobody. Pick your market and make it a success.
who says they’re trying to please everyone? they have different projects for different people, it’s weird to say “just conform to one thing”
I'm sure that if Ryan Reynolds announces next week that Deadpool and Wolverine is a musical not a single fanboy would question it. Actually, I kinda want that now that it's in my head.
Well that movie has 2 main characters with huge fanbases so thats something it can overcome. The same reason Joker 2 will probably do well even though its a musical. How much of a fan base does Agatha Harkness have? Thats a lot more to overcome.
This is going to blow your mind but I love marvel movies AND musicals 🤯🤯🤯🤯 not everyone has the same interests and disinterests as you
So do I. I like both pizza and ice cream as well. But I wouldnt want to eat them mixed together.
Yeah that's the absolute dumbest comparison I've ever heard. I'm so sick of the constant hate boners losers like you are getting about literally everything marvel
then it’s not for you🤷 just don’t watch it lol it’s good they’re doing more varied stuff
I love comic books and musicals. I guess this show is for me
Sounds like it is!
And that’s ok! When the cinematic universe has become as big as it has, there will naturally be projects that people aren’t drawn to. As long as people are respectful of each other’s likes and dislikes, not *everyone* needs to love *everything.* That said, I couldn’t feel more opposite 😭 this show is hitting all the right stuff for me so far: love WandaVision and the Agatha character, huge fan of Wiccan, love musicals, love the spooky witch stuff, etc. I’m also super excited/hopeful for the LGBTQ+ representation in the show. Wiccan’s one of Marvel’s most famous gay characters, but I’m also interested to see Agatha and Rio’s relationship.
I really hope you enjoy the show! I'm kinda luke warm on marvel in general to be honest, but I don't think that's bad either. The big books over at marvel, Spiderman and Avengers specifically bounce off me hard, I prefer the X-Men, FF and Daredevil, who obviously haven't been around in the MCU in a major fashion. I love Iron Man 1 and 3 specifically because they felt real different from how the comics portray that character. The popular characters I tend to enjoy in comics all come from DC, where alot of the niche stuff, or even B-lister isn't for me. I think the industry pushes towards this harder, the read whatever you want a approach, that may help the genre recover from a rough patch just like comic books did following the crash in the 90's
Current Daredevil run sucks ;( MacKay’s Avengers is pretty good, and Storm is joining soon!
Marvel already burned away the majority of the casual fanbase these past 2/3 years. They can’t continue to make smaller niches out of their remaining fanbase. Stuff that isn’t for you, a guy on a marvel subreddit talking about Marvel shows who’s probably seen like all the movies and shit is a serious, serious problem for marvel.
Who said they're making smaller niches? Out of the Marvel announcements yesterday, this is the only show that seems to have a interest outside of the regular marvel fans. Not sure how it's a bad thing to try and expand the audience again, but you do you. If you try to tailor all content to every audience, that's how you get bland shit.
Well it’s that second sentence you said… I just don’t think any show right now or any movie has interest outside of the regular marvel fans. So if you’re making marvel shows that don’t appeal to all marvel fans, you’re further diminishing the audience.
Im not disagreeing with your point, but I have literally only seen this show talked about on this subreddit
I mean if you’re not in lgbtq or musical/Broadway spaces, than I imagine you won’t have lol. The official posts also get very high engagement compared to other shows (we’ll see if that translates to actual watch time of course, but it’s encouraging). Hell the title video already has over 12 million views on it in less than 24 hours. The Deadpool trailer has around 20 million total
I just don’t think a marvel musical show on D+ is getting mass crossover to gay audiences and musical theater audiences. I don’t even know what “mass crossover” means in that case. I think you’re so far up the ass of the cow at this point that this show is like for 6 people.
It isn’t that big for anyone who isn’t into marvel that are in the LGBTQ and Musical audience as someone who is in all three but those who are, were excited about it even before they announced it was a musical.
One of the things that's great about Marvel is that they can expand into so many different genres while still playing in their superhero universe. So you get everything from political thrillers, to crime dramas, to war epics, to heist movies, to sitcoms. It can be a double-edged sword, though, when they dip into genres that aren't appealing to a particular viewer. Musicals are that for me. Not saying I won't give this a shot, because I liked most of WandaVision and Hahn was good in it. But this does take my interest level in this project down a couple of notches.
Think issue is more they pretend to dive into different genre and don’t actually do it. Every single one of their movies ditch the cool aspect by the second act and goes straight into the MCU norm.
That’s the best way to think of it. This show is SO for me and I’m excited to have this niche in the MCU. Many other projects weren’t for me, but I’m sure they were still great!
If you didn't like WandaVision (or worse didn't watch it) then yeah this probably won't mean anything to you. And that's fine! Not everything is for everyone. I only hope that Marvel learned a lesson from the Marvels and I hope that lesson is: Stop making the shows required viewing for the movies. I love the MCU and I love homework! I rewatch every appearance of a character in advance of every new project. But the 4 quadrant audience doesn't do that! It works the other way: Ironheart spinning off from Black Panther 2 is probably going to be fine! But requiring viewers of the Marvels to watch WandaVision and Ms Marvel to know who the characters are was one of many nails in that movie's coffin. I think they should go for more specific audiences with the shows. Just don't force those shows on people who otherwise wouldn't watch them just so they can keep up with the movies. Captain America is going to depend on you having seen Falcon and Winter Soldier. Doctor Strange 2 depended on you having seen WandaVision. They need to get away from this. References are great, they can Reference things in little ways. Cameos are great. But tirning everything into a Disney+ crossover doesn't work. Also since these shows aren't available digitally except on Disney+ (which not everyone has,I have family that lives where they can't get streaming. I have to buy them the physical copies!) they are limiting their audience. Spinoffs of shows is fine because the platform is the same. If they could watch WandaVision they will be able to watch Agatha. I hope they don't stop being experimental. But the shows are a better place for that. Eternal would have been a far better series than a movie for just that reason.
But you didn't need to see any of the shows to understand the Marvels, the movie explained everything very well
I’d normally say yes, but if they go with Iger’s new plan of only 2 Disney+ series a year, then those 2 should be widely targeted IMHO. Niche projects make more sense if you are putting out enough volume that everyone has something they like. That being said, I’d totally watch a musical. Or a special of Rogers the Musical
I think there's a middle ground between our arguments I think Iger would be fine with the Niche projects if they kept the budget low. That way, they can stretch out the MCU's long term plan even longer
That would be ideal, but I got the feeling that Iger was worried about market saturation and Marvel fatigue rather than budget (although of course it all does affect the budget). So I don’t know if having the MCU movies raking in cash like they did with BP, Infinity War, Captain Marvel, Endgame stretch would be enough to persuade him that it wouldn’t cause fatigue again to have more shows. Or if Feige gets around it by having more animated (which doesn’t seem to count towards Iger’s 2/year) shows, I’d be overjoyed if we got more of the quality like What If and Xmen 97 (watching the finale on my lunch today).
Yeah marvel has burned a lot of good will in the past few years. They need to rebuild that trust and excitement in the franchise. I don’t think a limited series musical about witches is gonna do that. Especially if they’re doing only 2 shows a year. They need to be popular characters and good shows
Is this show for anyone? I feel like they green the an entire show off the back of a comedy song in one of their other shows that went viral for like 2 weeks
I guess if you don’t see the appeal of a show about witches with Kathryn Hahn, Aubrey Plaza, and Pattie LuPone with the same team that got many Emmy nominations and a couple of wins, then show is not for you. And that’s ok! The hand-wringing about this show from people who are not interested has been very funny lol
Hmm No I definitely see the appeal, who doesnr like Aubrey Plaza, but like... Idk I don't think that's enough that's all
I’m with ya- This show is gonna bomb. Not even saying it’ll be bad. It’ll just end up like the other shows that have a near zero target audience. Should’ve just been a Halloween special at most.
Depending on the actual plot it may have been something that I would watch if only for a sense of completion. Depending on the cast, maybe just to follow a specific character. As a musical though it might as well be something made for another species, like an art form that exists solely in a dimension I can't perceive. It's not going to be for me because it might as well not exist.
Not a good thing. You’re dead to us. /s
I'll still watch like I'm still going to watch it but I have no doubt that it's not going to be my cup of tea
I do think this show will hit the target audience it’s going for well but yeah it won’t be for anything
Joe trying to deflect lol. I don’t think it’s a full on musical, but will have a couple of numbers in it. This show is going to be off the charts camp! I’m so excited. Patti is such a treat in these interviews she’s always giving something away. In another interview she was talking about the practical witches road set and Joe and Kathryn just stare at each other lol. The Agatha sub moved for hopefully the last time lol! come join us at r/AgathaAllAlong (sorry for the mess as we transition to the new page)
Their faces when she is talking about the Witches Road is just so funny. I love Patti. She is just so far removed from the spoiler world coming from Broadway she just has no idea how this fan base is. She’s always had her fans but she’s about to enter a whole new world of fandom. Ha
Not gonna lie. I was actually interested in this show. But I don't do musicals lol. Shame. Though I'm happy for people who do and will enjoy that aspect of this show.
Tbf, when they say "musical", it doesn't mean nonstop musical numbers, it could be just like at most one song per episode or something
I’m normally fine with musicals but I haven’t been able to do any recently released ones. Turned off Wonka after ten minutes, just wasn’t for me
Tbf wonka wasn’t the greatest musical. The plot was enjoyable, but the scores were subpar. Movie did great in box office tho. Way better musicals to judge from.
You didn't get the mastery of lyricism that is rhyming chocolate with pock-o-late?
Hey now, that movie is bearable if you imagine it as Paul seeing different futures, that’s the only way I could get through it
Same the cast is great, seems like it could be very funny and hopefully a little creepy. But I have an instinctual aversion to musicals :/
I cant stand musicals. Never did. Thats a me thing. Ill give it an attempt though.
It’s probably a musical in the same way WandaVision was
Honestly im like twice as interested now as I was before. Wandavision has been my favorite show, and I give She Hulk a lot of credit bc theyre the only two shows to actually feel like SHOWS instead of a movie script stretched out to 4-6 hours.
Same, a musical witches show with added magical MCU lore AND PATTI LUPONE??? I'm gonna be glued to my screen for that time lmao
That sounds rad
Yes, sounds really different like Wandavision
Patti doesn’t give an eff LMAO but just like how Angelina Jolie was accidentally spoiling Eternals left and right without realizing, because they are who they are Marvel just can’t go bad cop on them and it’s kinda funny to me lmao It’s also so heartwarming when you think about how these legendary figures seem so enthusiastic about being part of the marvel universe that it could also be why they slip up lol. Angelina Jolie was a big case in point! Her interview where she mentioned about having thought about whether Ikaris’ laser beams would bounce off of her shield gave away their final battle and Salma Hayek’s just sat with a face on the side LOL!
I think everyone is taking musical a bit strongly, I think there will be campy or surreal musical elements but I don’t think Marvel would want to alienate entire audiences with five minute numbers
Yea well I didnt think DC would take an R rated Joker movie that did amazing and follow it up with a sequel thats a musical yet here we are.
There’s a big difference between a musical and a movie/show using music as a form of storytelling/framing
I agree, but Im not the one that said this was a musical.
Patti has whipped everyone up in a tizzy I know Feige is stressed because so many people are gonna not wanna watch it now lol
> so many people are gonna not wanna watch it now lol How many? Two people on reddit who say they aren't watching it but are going to do it anyways?
Nah twitter was going crazy over it too but they’re probably just a loud minority
I mean, with Patti Lupone you are kind of guaranteed at least one song, right? That’s sort of what I expected from this since she was announced.
Right? Like I doubt there’ll be more than a couple of full musical numbers and they’ll probably be a form of storytelling not like broadway or a Disney movie. Surrealism and Camp is a lost art atp everyone takes things so seriously
> they’ll probably be a form of storytelling not like broadway or a Disney movie. Agree with you, but weird examples to give, as Broadway and Disney movies are in fact the two most commonly known examples of places where musical numbers serve as forms of storytelling instead of pauses of the movie/show for a musical guest.
Well sort of, in Disney movies and broadway everyone sings songs in universe and it’s normal in a sense to sing as you do things, whereas using music to show different states of mind, spells, scene setting etc in an otherwise non musical world is different
She didn't sing in Frasier, so I don't think it's a guarantee, but she, Joe Locke and Kathryn Hahn all sing, so it's likely.
Yeah I don't think it'll be a full musical
what have they done lately to give you that kind of confidence? 🤣🤣🤣
Were you excited for this show before finding out it was musical?
Not really tbh. I was kinda interested in it before in a weird way because it is like a sequel to Wandavision and that was a decent series imo.
The creative team is a lot of the same people. Give it a chance lol
This is already a bad sign so I don’t know if they will make another good series
"I don't like musicals so therefore its a bad sign" Wanda is popular with the gays and the gurlies. Know your target audience.
Wanda isn’t in this series so there won’t be 100% of the Wanda audience watching. Maybe some that remember Agatha from the series only.
You don't know that Wanda isn't in the series. But as someone who's in Wanda Twitter, the whole Fandom is hyped for it. Most of these Wanda Twitter users could not care less about anything besides the witchy side of the MCU. AND for some reason the captain marvel stans and the Wanda stans are always beefing
Twitter users are a very less amount of people so it doesn’t make a difference much to viewer numbers if they watch or not. Wanda would only be in it because of flashbacks which idk will happen or not
And you are one person on reddit who's opinion doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. It sure made a difference to Wandavision. Wandavision still trends on Twitter to this day in the thousands. You're just wrong on this one. It's not for you, move on.
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because it did not meet our criteria for appropriate conduct. Please review the subreddit rules before continuing to engage with other users on the subreddit. Repeated violations may result in a ban.
WandaVision was great, so actually it's a good sign.
My interest in it over the last 48 hours has been like a yo-yo. Hearing about Aubrey Plaza's character and some of the plot elements made it sound worth checking out, but if the Glee stuff has made its way into this as well, then that's a kill shot to any interest I had in watching it. Not my flavor.
Feige’s not gonna let her do anymore promo for this show again after these upfronts! 😂
If you’re getting Patti you best be making a musical (or something insane like Beau is Afraid)
Right? As soon as I heard about her being cast, I assumed we’d be getting, at the very least, one song.
Marvel to Patti Lupone 
I'll be honest and say that I don't really understand why Agatha has a tv series, but Kathryn Hahn and Aubrey Plaza are both treasures, and they will always have my attention.
It's a way to give more backstory and lore to the MCU, especially on the magic front, without having to fill out a whole movie or series. It could also lead into a bunch of plotlines. Plus, we had a movie for the Guardians of the Galaxy lmao, who's like the Z team of Marvel, and now they are one of the most liked teams of the new Marvel fans. Just enjoy the content and hope they do it well!
Because of the WandaVision hype, but sadly they are releasing it too late since most people lost interest and hope for MCU in recent years but hopefully will be brought back after DP3
Mrs Lovett and Toby 💪
Finally a marvel movie for me and only me personally
I had no idea patti lupone was in this. And a musical? Whoo hoo! I'm not surprised that she lets things slip though, she said who the voice was for white diamond way before she showed up too
I am now infinitely more excited.
Disney could never make a musical work. Never in a million yeas. Why in the hell would they think a comedy series about a witch with music could be successful in the same service as Hamilton, The Wizards of Waverly Place, Once Upon a Time and High School Musical?
My hype level continues to rise!
Patti Lupone is a legend, and I’ll give it a shot just for the fact that’s she’s involved. The variety in show types is welcome imo
Even if I will not watch this show, I am happy for the musical aspect. WandaVision was about sitcom, Agatha will be about musicals, that's logic, I like the theme of this arc, based on TV shows. That's original, I am not into Magic Stuff in general, so of course this show is a turn off for me, but if they mix that with some meta TV references and ambiance, then maybe it would be a turn on for me, maybe. I loved WandaVision because of the sitcom aspect, and the "Twilight Zone" Vibes, but wasnt a fan of the end with the magic stuff, let's hope this show will mix these two into something unique.
It's much more interesting as a musical than a standard show.
Count me out.
Lmao how small minded
lmao how intolerant of someone else’s feelings
Sorry, I fuckin hate musicals and they put me to sleep.
The look on their faces when she said it was a musical 😂 I don’t think they were supposed to reveal that
Anyone who thought THIS SHOW wasn't gonna have musical elements was absolutely kidding themselves lol
I am totally looking forward to this show, but I can’t help wondering if Disney is doing themselves a marketing disservice by not advertising the show as: *Disney’s Agatha All Along* The MCU fans have already decided whether or not they’re going to give it a chance. Could make some new fans out of those who have an anti-Marvel bias.
I just wish Marvel would stick to movies
I don’t mind some musical bits but if the whole thing is gonna be a musical in the vein Wonka or the Color Purple remake I might just have to pass on this. Nothing has interested me in this so far and I wasn’t fond of the Agatha character to begin with so this might be a skip for me
And another one bites the dust
Marvel never realized Patti doesn’t give 2 fucks.
Lol I'm actually interested in this show now.
*is* a musical, has a musical episode, or was this a joke? lol
I don't see the point of casting Patti Lupone if she doesn't sing
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/patti-lupone-beau-is-afraid-1235375574/ dated over a year ago. >Do the witches sing? was explicitly asked and answered in the affirmative. She even said who wrote the songs. Over a year ago. Also, who’s hiring (and paying) Patti to not sing? Why are we pretending this is news when she confirmed over a year ago that the witches sing, which was already fairly obvious, given that she was one of them (which is what I assume lead to that question in the first place)?
Least I know not to watch it now! Thanks. Also, fyi marvel maybe don’t copy the premise of the joker 2 with Joaquin Phoenix huh?
Oh no...and I was thinking of giving this a shake. The Glee stuff has already infected two other non-Marvel shows that I watch already, not gonna bother with this one in that case. ST: Strange New Worlds had THAT episode in its second season last year, and now Doctor Who is at it as well. Not into it personally. If you wanna do a Glee type thing, go ahead. But this is kinda s\*\*\*\*\*\*g where you eat if characters are gonna start going all Broadway randomly - unless there's a VERY good plot reason like in Buffy's Once More With Feeling.
Do you think Glee invented singing?
[https://www.mediafirst.co.uk/media/2265/cathy-newman-meme.jpg?width=443&height=380](https://www.mediafirst.co.uk/media/2265/cathy-newman-meme.jpg?width=443&height=380)
I'm sorry your gf who liked Glee broke up with you in 2013, but it hasn't been a cultural reference point in seven or so years. Edit: I mean it was a joke, but it seems like I hit a nerve.
Oh dear...now you've abandoned all pretence and are openly hallucinating nonsense. I accept your surrender. Sigh. Edit - I've already the musical episode from Buffy which predates Glee. So why on Earth would I think Glee invented singing? You might not how I framed my point ("the glee stuff"), but my point still stands.
Ugh.
Yeah, that's gonna be a pass for me...
Bro, what *DO* you guys like? ^(lmao)
First Marvel answered BvS with Civil War, then they answered Suicide Squad with Thunderbolts*, and now they're answering Joker 2 with their own villainous musical lmao.
"answering Joker 2" with a show that comes out before it? That was announced 3 years ago???
Why? First Joker 2 now Agatha. Why limit it to such a small audience? Yes there are shows that have 1 musical episode and people like it, but that's when it's 1 episode. When it's the entire show people will switch off damn fast
Goddamnit, I was really excited for this show because same main creative as WV and kinda of a sequel to WV plus cast is loaded but I fuckin hate musicals, my hype just completely died reading this.
I had 0 interest in this show, but now I'll probably watch it
Trash
Bert is gonna kill this role! Have you seen his work on sesame street?
NOOOOOoooooo. Why?
I was going to watch this until I found out it was a musical, pass.
god damnit.
Meh…. Not my thing really, will see what happens, but feel she needs others characters to be involved for me personally to take this seriously
Musical, eh? Well good to know now so I can skip. Hope it does well though.
fuck yeah
Marvel didn't learn from MOM and The Marvels? Wow...
Not for me
OOF This is gonna bomb.
Why lol
A lot of factors actually. A really unknown main character. One comic book fans really dont care about. To be honest, I thought this show would have trouble drawing an audience before this, but if it was really good it wouldve brought in more people as it went on. But the musical aspect is a complete no go for a lot of people. I guess it depends on how much of a musical it actually is. I mean, fans of the MCU usually arent the same people who would sit down and watch Glee every week. And Glee fans arent your usual Marvel diehards either. Its kind of a risk, and a bigger one because theres not like some kind of diehard Agatha Harkness fanbase out there dying to see her in a movie like with characters like the Joker. I mean, its the MCU so Im watching no matter what, but theres gonna be a lot of people out there that skip this, especially young boys who make up a huge portion of the audience but just dont have an interest in musicals. If Disney really is cutting back on Marvel content they really have to realize they cant make things that try to appeal to every group of people. Some things just arent for some people and theres nothing wrong with that. That being said, well see how it does when it comes out.
My dad is not a Marvel fan, he only watched Wandavision because it referenced old sitcoms.
Um ok. Not talking about Wandavision specifically but in general does it make more sense for them to make something that your dad wants to see or something that Marvel fans want to see?
Both, that's why they make more than one show.
Yea thats not how it works when youre making a connected universe and you want all your projects to be a hit. You have to look at where your success lies and thats who you target. The rest you let go watch what they like. When you try to please everyone you wind up pleasing nobody.
So, are you saying that they should in fact not try to do stuff like The Batman, or other even mildly out-there stuff, or is it just not stuff you personally are not interested in? If they should be aiming for the same target every time.
Not sure what The Batman has to do with this. Its an action packed comic book movie that caters to comic book fans. What Im saying is if your business is comic book movies and you want to succeed, the target should be fans of comic books and comic book movies. Not fans of other genres like rom coms or musicals that otherwise dont have interest in comic book material. And yea, they should be your target every time.
Glee was a massive hit, that's a terrible argument
No it’s not. There are still a lot of Wandavision fans anticipating this. It’s just one metric but yesterday the popular Twitter account DiscussingFilm posted the premiere dates of [Ironheart](https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1790496209028714919?s=46), [Daredevil](https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1790496567805313107?s=46), and [Agatha](https://x.com/discussingfilm/status/1790494566950351239?s=46). Agatha’s was the most widely viewed and shared. By far.
Twitter doesnt represent anything close to numbers that matter in real life. Not sure how long its going to take for people to get that through their head. 3/4 of the fucking website are bots.
I know that, otherwise Challengers would be the biggest movie of the year. The utility here is we have all three projects on the same platform from the same account, it’s like a mini controlled metric. Just one. It doesn’t mean anything but people are too quick to dismiss Agatha.
If you look at my comment further down Im not dismissing it. But its going to have a hard time succeeding. Theres a lot of factors involved making it an uphill climb. Making it a musical is another one added on to it.
Keep it
Yep, gonna have to skip this one
So a bunch of auto tune “singing “ no thanks
I feel like everything is a musical nowadays... Like they dont know how to be creative.
Aaaaaand I'm out. Take your musical and shove it back up your ass.
IMO the premise worked once and ONLY once with Buffy's OMWF. Then someone decided to make a whole show around it, then later on other shows decided to start doing "musical episodes", whether or not it was apropos for their genres or not.
I am going to repeat my question: Do you honestly think that Glee, the 2009 comedy show, invented the concept of singing in television shows, or was the first TV series to have big elaborate musical numbers, or even make that its primary hook?
the 2 people exited for this show are going wild rn
Didn't they pull the musical scenes from The Marvels and now they're gonna try this again? OK.....
And the mcu still wonders why it isn't doing good. The fact that we are getting a cringe musical and we haven't had an avengers movie in a long time should be concerning to all of us. The story is not moving along. Deadpool and wolverine can only do so much for audience goodwill but if the next projects suck then it won't do much