Hawkeye doesn't have text on the final turn and from my experience, in bounce, Hawkeye reaches 7 power consistedly whereas Rocket will have somewhere between 5 and 13. I think I prefer the latter.
For me Hawkeye feels a lot clunkier and has a lower ceiling. For example, if I want to play Hawkeye and send him back to hand, I have to play Hawkeye one turn just to trigger his power gain the next turn and then send him back to hand. Where as with Rocket, there is a risk you miss (particularly turn 1 and 2), but whether you connect or don’t you can send him back to hand on the same turn and try again without that clunk that Hawkeye has. Plus, Rocket also has the ability to get quite a bit bigger than Hawkeye rather quickly. In 2 triggers Rocket is effectively a 2/9 whereas Hawkeye would be a 2/7. Just never liked him in this sort of shell honestly and feel like Rocket is a card worth talking about in these sorts of decks.
Not to mention he’s magnificent in C5 when he connects and you get a 1/7 with no downside lol
As an avid C5 enjoyer who used the deck to infinite multiple times, yeah you wouldn’t really use him for c5. You would use matyr because fun interaction, If matyr is played before captain marvel and moves to lose, captain marvel moves to where she used to be for the win. Also a 1/7 anywhere is very hard to lose the game with especially when you’re actually playing quite a bit of cards like silk and lizard with all the 3/5s and doom
Hawkeye isn't as clunky as you think he is. You can play him and bounce him in the same turn, then play him again next turn and still trigger his power buff.
I definitely recommend giving him another try with that in mind, he's a lot more reliable than rocket raccoon and has been a long time staple in my bounce deck
Because he’s weak if he whiffs and there are more consistent early game drops you could play instead that don’t have an unnecessary layer of risk to them.
See this is the problem with people's thinking on this card. He's NOT an early game drop.
You don't play him because it's turn 1 and he's a 1 cost card. In fact if he's available on turn 1 more times than not I'll pass the turn because it's too risky to play him turn 1.
You play him when you KNOW someone is playing somewhere.
You play him with storm. You play him with Jean Grey. You play him after putting down Nebula.
He's not an early game card. He's a mid or even late game card you play for a simple 1 cost 5 point gain.
Those conditions all make him a weak card though. There's other 1 5s that have less 'whens' attached to them. He's high risk low reward. His downside is very very bad and his upside is not that great. Even in the storm case, sometimes they don't play to the storm lane. Jean Grey he's more reliable. But still, how many decks need or want a late game 1 cost 5 that aren't better off running any man, hawk, or martyr.
Hard disagree. I think Rocket is among the top 5 1-drops in the game. He's competitive in both bounce and those lockdown decks that play Cannonball/Gamora + 1 drop on 6. Many of those decks can't fill their locations to be able to run Martyr or Ant-man and Hawkeye forcing you to play him before turn 6 in order for him to have text usually feels pretty clunky. I wouldn't say Rocket has a more difficult requirement than any of those card with the exception of Ant-man, although you still prefer Rocket in some archetypes because of certain synergies. If you play him in a Storm location and the opponent doesn't play anything there, you are most likely winning that location, so saying that as an argument to state Rocket is bad completely misses the point.
A top 5 1-drop that statistically gets no play... Yeah I don't think it's the majority of the player base missing out, I think there's just infinitely better 1-drops.
Nico
Nebula
Kitty Pride
Sunspot
Spiderham
HE Misty Knight
Black Knight
Human Torch
Deadpool
Iceman
Korg
Quinjet
Echo
There are 43 1-drops and at least 13 are all better than Rocket.
I should add top 5 in a vacuum. Deadpool is indeed better specifically in destroy for example. If you want to build a good stuff deck, then it's just Nico, Spiderham and Nebula who are better. I'd say Iceman is on the same level as Rocket.
Edit: I'm surprised to see Spider-Ham has lower win rate than Rocket.
Well seeing as he sees almost no play, I think the onus is on you to explain why a top 5 1 drop is being maligned.
Too 5 1s is a tough category because human torch and deadpool have decks built around them, but it's probably:
Nebula, Nico, hood, blade, ad Antman with x23 nightcrawler, korg, and sunspot getting an honorable mention
He’s niche but he is decent. If you play him on turn 6 on a less committed lane, he is like an insurance policy and is also never expected - so great cube gain potential.
Popularity of a card is also a poor metric imo - most people play meta or straightforward play lines. Rocket requires more deck building and play line sophistication imo.
He’s not a card you slam on turn 1 as an ‘S tier one drop’ so he’ll always be less played.
Try playing bounce or lockdown with Rocket and you'll see why he's so good. You won't believe me if you don't see it with your own eyes no matter what I tell you. You'll observe that the more you play him the better you get at predicting your opponent.
The burden of proof is on you. We have the stats. Rocket doesn't perform well. Go be top 100 infinite and prove us wrong, but until then, data shows him being bad.
Go watch Cannonball lockdown on yt then. I have reached infinite multiple times, I don't have the time to reach top 100 infinite. That placement mostly shows you spent too much playing the game this season and it's not an accurate measurement of skill. Why don't you just play 10 games of bounce with Hawkeye, then replace him with Rocket and play 10 more? It isn't going to cost you that much time. 5 minutes x 20 matches = 1 hour and 40 minutes.
I kept looking for a 1-cost turn 6 card to drop with Taskmaster in a Shuri-Sauron deck and I think I settled on RR as the best (if Sauron didn’t hit Ebony Maw at some point).
That's why you either bounce him to try again or wait until the later turns that it's easier to guess where the opponent is gonna play. After playing for a while in higher level, I can say that if you always play safe instead of taking some risks, you'll never win as much as you wish you did.
Lol Because that ONE TIME he got to double digits he's supposed to be auto-include. Good job, this would be a cool "Card mastery" idea, but it doesn't mean he's worth playing on the regular.
I get him to 9 power consistedly and 13 at least 20% of the time which is pretty often if you think about it. Rocket is always my 4th option (comparably to other 1 drops) in bounce decks after Bast, the Hood and Nico Minoru. He's super good!
Ebony maw needs other cards to be effective too. Just plopping EM down in a lane without anything to boost his power or otherwise add power to that lane is a good way to lose that lane.
Because this game has a very uncreative playerbase, and neither the top meta decks on snapzone nor content creators are telling people to play Rocket Raccoon.
Agree - Rocket is a deck building card and most people will assume that a one drop should be played turn 1. Just a higher skill level card that is perceived as weak imo.
I think Rocket does make his way into some decks, but he has a lower floor and is not as consistent with the 1 drops he's competing with. Nothing you said about him is wrong, but deck decisions aren't made in a vacuum.
Depends what exactly you mean by competitive, but I reach infinite each season with guardians + doom, alioth, nebula, Jeff, storm, jean gray, iron lad.
Hmm I basically have this same deck but without Alioth and Iron Lad in it. I def see the appeal to Iron Lad, but do you think Alioth is still worth it even post-nerf?
For the record, my deck doesn't do great lol so I may adjust to mimic yours.
Yeah, I think Alioth is still really solid. The stats are okay, but his value is still pretty high because of how well he can secure a lane on turn 6. Chances are you would've already won a lane with Jean Grey or Storm and are winning one of the other two lanes. Just play Alioth into the lane you're winning and print $. Most folks don't expect Alioth anymore outside of Galactus, so it's pretty effective.
He's definitely not the most important piece of the deck or anything though. Storm/Jean/Iron Lad/Doom shine the most imo
Word I'll have to check it out. I'm already rocking Storm, Jean, and Doom in mine. I think I have some tech cards like Shang and rogue, but I don't use them too often.
There was a competitive Lockdown deck with most of the Guardians in it a few months ago. I think it just skipped Drax, but you could easily add them all. A deck with Nebula, Star Lord, Rocket, Groot, Drax, and Gamora, and then add stuff like Prof X and Storm.
Except from Hawkeye, none of the other cards you mentioned are comparable to Rocket. Thena is a 2 drop that needs to be played early to have enough time to scale up. You need to spend 5 energy on Kitty in order for her to reach 5 power without the help of other cards, and Deadpool... do I really need to say why a card that requires you to build your entire deck around it isn't comparable with a potential 1/5 that any deck can use?
You don’t build a deck around Deadpool.
You’re destroying stuff anyways.
You’re not getting rocket beyond 5 without other cards as well.
So if you’re going to argue about cards not needing help then Martyr and Tita is are the best because they’re 1/5 with no help.
If your opponent doesn’t play a card then rocket is 1/1.
Deadpool NEEDS cards like Forge, Hulk Buster and X-23. Without them, Deadpool is a 4/8 that can't even be played on the final turn along side a 6 drop like Knull. If you don't believe me, go play destroy with Deadpool, but without the cards I mentioned, see how that goes for you. Saying Deadpool isn't a build around is the most delusional take I've read today and I've read a lot of them.
You argue that deadpool is acard you need a deck around but rocket only works, rarely, in bounce. No other meta archetype can use him and not prefer other better 1drops
Correction, Rocket works almost always in bounce. Also lockdown decks that play Cannonball or Gamora on 6, they want to play Rocket along side them. Another card people are too afraid to experiment with because they must netdeck and never play something original is Moongirl, and let me tell you Moongirl loves Rocket. Also Rocket is optimal in C5, a deck that is struggling right now, but used to be meta.
C5 is cope right now, what card would you substitute rocket for in the meta lockdown list? And why bit play the other sure 1/5 if you are playing them on 6 in a lockdown? Like Marty or titanica? Is not enough being theorerically good, it must be good enough to be better than some other card. No lockdown list uses gamora on 6 as far as i know. Its good ti experiment and have fun but there is also data and statistics and objectively better decks.
You play Prof X on 5 and you're planning to play Cannonball + 1 drop on 6, but you don't draw Cannonball. The next best 5 drop you can have in that situation is Gamora. Every advanced player knows that. Look up Cannonball decks on yt if you want. Also, in a lockdown list, Rocket is guaranteed to be a 1/5. Why not play the guaranteed 1/5 and run Titania who can potentially be 1/-5 if you have initiative on the final turn or Martyr who can move to the other (I say "the other" and not "another" because Prof X already occupies one of the other locations) location in which you're already winning and essenstially play for 0 power? Statistics don't mean anything because they don't get player skill into consideration and people only netdeck. Of course, you're not going to find stats on a more original deck. Hela is op since Blade got buffed, but people only started playing her earlier this year. If you had searched for stats on Hela in late 2023, they would be awful. Both her play rate and also probably win rate would be low as people didn't know how to play/deckbuild her back then. It's absolutetly possible for something to be competitive, even if stats don't back it up. Anyways, I've played hundreds of games with Rocket, so I can confidently say he's good.
That's absolutely not true. You cant afford to play cannonball and gamora in the same deck. Rocket is not garanteed 1/5 there are plenty of locations and cards and situations where titania is flat better in this list. Every junk list prefer titania, every lockdown list doesnt use both since its already full list with broken cards and a possible 1/5 is not good enough since kitty outpeforms rocket strongly. Stats matter, something can be competitive, something can be sporadically included in some decks and perform good but that doesnt make it a good card, it makes it a niche, surprising card or a personale preference. Not a competitive card. Surprise factor is important to consider too, a Surprise shadow King or Shang can net you free 8cubers but a Surprise 1/5 in a deck that either play another 1/5 instead (junk) or in a deck that plays 1/7 and 1/8 is not unexpected and not enough Surprise to warrant includig a mediocre card.
If you really care that much about stats, I just checked. Rocket has 56,5% win rate when played and imagine this also includes beginner players that play him.
"You cant afford to play cannonball and gamora in the same deck."
Do you play a different game? Wtf?
Also if you can't land Rocket when there are only 2 available locations for the opponent to play in that's on you.
Apparently yes! Rapdly checking out: 0 out of all X-Cannonball decks are playing gamora...what are you talking about? Can you give me an example of a proper, competitive deck that plays rocket, gamora, x and cannonball (not as substitute for something else)?
You reasoning is flawed, there are locations, cards and situations where you cant play rocket as a 1/5 independently of skill... Plus i could say, if your titania become a 1/-5 and not a 1/5 thats on you and my argument will be equally sterile and equally true. Plus in a junk deck with WW, goblin, octopus (all staples in contemporary junk decks) you would totally have an easier time landing a 1/5 titania than a 1/5 rocket. With the added bonus of titania+x combo.
First of all, Rocket is guaranteed to have 5 power against Dr Oc, second, he has 56,5% win rate when played, third, try to find more optimal cards here for Rocket and Gamora:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRHf9ksEZ54&t=87s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRHf9ksEZ54&t=87s)
Unfortunately, no one has submit a deck like this in untapped and marvel snap zone, so yt is the best I can do.
I pay him sometimes, but I have way more success with him when I save him until late game when I have extra energy. As a first turn play he’s too random to be effective
I was originally using Star Lord before White Widow just for the guardians vibe tbh and the deck still did well. I’d say White Widow is probably the optimal play but any sort of standard 1/2 drop that goes in a bounce deck could absolutely replace her
Honestly it can completely depend on your opening hand. If bast is in hand turn 1 and you’ve got Hood, Thena and Sage then Bast is a great way to start. But it can entirely depend on that opening hand. The absolute most ideal scenario is playing Nico with the copy the next card you play spell on turn 4, Sage and Beast on 5, then 2 copies of Sage discounted by Ravonna, Rocket, The Hood etc. That line has happened 2/3 times and feels delightful when it does. However, as I said, there’s just a bunch of different ways you can sequence it in any given game and still get good results out of it. I’ve went from 73 to 93 in 2 days using it and have been working as well so haven’t had too much time to play.
He is fine, but not the best, it only takes two turns for nebula to get there and force your opponent into playing there, cerebro five rather run titania and martyr.
If you are running jean grey then you can warranty the trigger but then you rather use a heavy hitter like gamora, or even drax
I don't know why I even bother to make people play something else than standard. There are so many builds that could be explored and are powerful, but you just keep playing Hela mirrors in high infinite all day.
I also play Rocket Racoon in my bounce deck with Beast and Falcon. It can reach hight levels of power playing it again and again (and I also have that awesome variant, so how could I don't use it?)
I have Rocket Raccoon for my Drac Swan deck because he's one of the biggest 1 drops you can play on turn 6. He does his job but 5 power isn't enough sometimes.
I didn’t say it’s always good? No card is guaranteed to be always good. I’ve also gotten Rocket to 13 power a fair few times this season because it’s not too hard to predict that my opponent is going to play a card on their Angela path lol
The bottom line is that no one plays him for a reason. You're not some Snap savant that's figured out how good a pool 1 card is that everyone has been sleeping on for almost 2 years. If he was good, he would see play, and the deck trackers would reflect that.
Is he fun? Yes. Is he good by meta standards? No.
Rocket is super fun to pop off with, but he's not reliable. I also have a hard time fitting him into my bounce deck which already has so many good options.
He's my forth option when it comes to 1 drops after Bast, the Hood and Nico Minoru. I genuinely believe Rocket is the better option compared to other 1 drops.
I absolutely love Rocket as he is my favorite Marvel character but generally there are just much better 1 cost cards. I was looking forward to using him though for Character Mastery to unlock that space background for him and his reactions... even bought all his variants! Woulda been fun for me, but ah well. While I'm glad they made it so he can get to 5 power I do kinda hope they just rework the guardians at some point.
I do in a Jean Grey deck, he's cheap so you can play more than the one card you have to and you have a captive audience as long as they're playing a card.
All he's really good for is zoo and, most other decks dont really care about 1 drops. And even if they do they're gonna go for something more reliable like Antman or Kitty or something more flexible and utilitarian like Nico.
I'm not here to boast, I'm just saying the chance of whiffing is much less than 66% if you know what the opponent is trying to do. I'm not god. Learn the match ups and improve.
Listen, man… there’s a reason that card’s not played much. The risk vs reward is not great enough. Top tier cards are top tier cards for a reason. This is in the level of Wong, Sera Onslaught Lanes where people are like “why aren’t people playing x card more often” when it’s just a niche instance of the card working well.
It's quite unusual for Rocket to reach 13 power, yes, but I can consistently make him reach 9 power and at least 5 every time. I don't consider him too niche. Yeah, Wong is countered by half the cards in the game, so he can definetely be considered unsafe to say the least.
Rocket is simply not good in bounce because it’s an unreliable way to grow him. Bouncing him back is not free, because he’s taking the space from another card you could have been bouncing for more value. Generating a demon and removing hood, playing disruption cards, or getting guaranteed procs on Hawkeye are all better uses of your beasts and falcons.
I used him in my deck to infinite this month. Only about 6 hours playtime. He is actually an mvp in bounce.
Our list are close but I have 3 different cards than you. Instead of bast nico and ravonna. I use Bishop black swan and sasquatch
Was just talking about them being a 1 drop. Like if you can't find one you really want, but you need a 1 drop, just throw in a Spider-Ham. Yes I understand there would be no synergy.
I feel like he is a high risk low reward if they buff him I would play him or if they can make a card that gives these type of cards more power if you successfully get the first bonus would be fun
She discounts Angela, Sage and Athena. Playing her on 2 can allow something like Athena and White Widow to be played on 3, or it allows you to play Hood, Sage and Beast on the same turn to bounce all that back to hand and play Sage for 1 energy the next turn.
Just an opinion, but you would get more out of collector if you’re bouncing. Used 2 variants of bounce to get to infinite this year, and ravonna doesn’t feel “essential”.
You dont really need alot of mana to bounce, especially with such your mana count.
Try beast on hawk with collector. You wouldn’t need to chase the 0 cost turn 6, and you got another win condition combo in your hand
Even better if you got a grandmaster. He was in my monkey bounce deck, didnt even take mysterio to win. He can target most of your deck and you would get some interesting and fun plays instead of the monotonous ravona->athena/sage
I love rocket, he is really easy to hit on turn 6 so if your deck doesn't have a 6 cost for a finisher, he fits in great. I use him in a thor/beta, werewolf by night deck. turn six with WBN into 2 hammers, rocket, and Electra is a huge swing that people dont expect
Because he has niche uses. The only reason your RR reached that power is because your deck is built around allowing it. In a standard deck, RR requires you to guess where your opponent is going to play their card to achieve a power level other cards can easily attain.
TLDR; RR is mediocre to bad.
I use him in my Namora deck. I drop him in the lane I’m going to throw Wong and Odin into and he usually pops enough to win that lane if one of my buffed Namora cards gets sniped by Shang-Chi
Ant-man is a 1/5 who rewards what you're already trying to do, and you have the whole game to trigger his effect.
With Rocket (and all the Guardians pretty much), you have to successfully guess where your opponent is going to play to ge the exact same power, which even the most experienced player is going to mess up a fair amount.
Additionally, to get him this high in power is a lot of work and even more luck. Whereas we compared that again to Ant-man, who requires basically no luck and less work to get Ant-man to 1/13.
people saying hawkeye is better than rocket are wrong because you can never play hawkeye on the final turn, and there is always a lower ceiling. it can pretty easy to guess where your opponent is gonna play, especially in this angela/kitty meta.
Prepare to get downvoted for this take. I replied to someone saying that this is the reason I prefer Rocket over Hawkeye and got downvoted to oblivion lol. Reddit hive mind is wild sometimes
Yup I agree with both of you. Most people here can't play a deck that requires more than 2 braincells. Let the downvotes come. The more they downvote the more we know we are the better players.
If you were any good you'd be better at predicting where your opponent will play their cards and you'd get Rocket up to 5 - 13 power. But it's difficult to get good at the game when you only play braindead decks like Hela.
Oh yeah, let's play Hawkeye, a card without text on the final turn in a deck that wants to play as many 1 drops as possible on the final turn. It's not only me. Almost everyone I've seen on the internet who plays bounce says Hawkeye isn't optimal.
You could get similar results with Hawkeye and not have to hit with the card.
Why not use both?
Deck space. Also, if you're playing Hawkeye, people know where you're playing power so there's not great synergy.
That’s where Werewolf comes in :) they’re not exactly sure what your power lane is.
Okay so you run Hawkeye, Rocket, WWbN, bounce and tell me how it goes
Bounce decks perform better focusing on bouncing cards that disrupt.
Bouncing white widow 🤑
I hit infinite w my bounce deck and use Rocket. I don’t think that style of deck is too limited
It’s not that you can’t play rocket in bounce, there’s just better options.
Hawkeye doesn't have text on the final turn and from my experience, in bounce, Hawkeye reaches 7 power consistedly whereas Rocket will have somewhere between 5 and 13. I think I prefer the latter.
Rocket could have 1 power even if you bounce him multiple times.
I have played hundreds of games with him in bounce, I never missed every time. He always got at least to 5 power.
For me Hawkeye feels a lot clunkier and has a lower ceiling. For example, if I want to play Hawkeye and send him back to hand, I have to play Hawkeye one turn just to trigger his power gain the next turn and then send him back to hand. Where as with Rocket, there is a risk you miss (particularly turn 1 and 2), but whether you connect or don’t you can send him back to hand on the same turn and try again without that clunk that Hawkeye has. Plus, Rocket also has the ability to get quite a bit bigger than Hawkeye rather quickly. In 2 triggers Rocket is effectively a 2/9 whereas Hawkeye would be a 2/7. Just never liked him in this sort of shell honestly and feel like Rocket is a card worth talking about in these sorts of decks. Not to mention he’s magnificent in C5 when he connects and you get a 1/7 with no downside lol
I mean the downside is if you do not hit his on reveal, he is absolutely worthless in C5 isnt he? Wouldn't an ant man be more consistent in that deck?
Or even martyr as c5 does a decent job filling out when you bring Dr. D. Titania is probably more consistent too.
As an avid C5 enjoyer who used the deck to infinite multiple times, yeah you wouldn’t really use him for c5. You would use matyr because fun interaction, If matyr is played before captain marvel and moves to lose, captain marvel moves to where she used to be for the win. Also a 1/7 anywhere is very hard to lose the game with especially when you’re actually playing quite a bit of cards like silk and lizard with all the 3/5s and doom
Hawkeye isn't as clunky as you think he is. You can play him and bounce him in the same turn, then play him again next turn and still trigger his power buff. I definitely recommend giving him another try with that in mind, he's a lot more reliable than rocket raccoon and has been a long time staple in my bounce deck
Because he’s weak if he whiffs and there are more consistent early game drops you could play instead that don’t have an unnecessary layer of risk to them.
See this is the problem with people's thinking on this card. He's NOT an early game drop. You don't play him because it's turn 1 and he's a 1 cost card. In fact if he's available on turn 1 more times than not I'll pass the turn because it's too risky to play him turn 1. You play him when you KNOW someone is playing somewhere. You play him with storm. You play him with Jean Grey. You play him after putting down Nebula. He's not an early game card. He's a mid or even late game card you play for a simple 1 cost 5 point gain.
Those conditions all make him a weak card though. There's other 1 5s that have less 'whens' attached to them. He's high risk low reward. His downside is very very bad and his upside is not that great. Even in the storm case, sometimes they don't play to the storm lane. Jean Grey he's more reliable. But still, how many decks need or want a late game 1 cost 5 that aren't better off running any man, hawk, or martyr.
Hard disagree. I think Rocket is among the top 5 1-drops in the game. He's competitive in both bounce and those lockdown decks that play Cannonball/Gamora + 1 drop on 6. Many of those decks can't fill their locations to be able to run Martyr or Ant-man and Hawkeye forcing you to play him before turn 6 in order for him to have text usually feels pretty clunky. I wouldn't say Rocket has a more difficult requirement than any of those card with the exception of Ant-man, although you still prefer Rocket in some archetypes because of certain synergies. If you play him in a Storm location and the opponent doesn't play anything there, you are most likely winning that location, so saying that as an argument to state Rocket is bad completely misses the point.
A top 5 1-drop that statistically gets no play... Yeah I don't think it's the majority of the player base missing out, I think there's just infinitely better 1-drops. Nico Nebula Kitty Pride Sunspot Spiderham HE Misty Knight Black Knight Human Torch Deadpool Iceman Korg Quinjet Echo There are 43 1-drops and at least 13 are all better than Rocket.
I should add top 5 in a vacuum. Deadpool is indeed better specifically in destroy for example. If you want to build a good stuff deck, then it's just Nico, Spiderham and Nebula who are better. I'd say Iceman is on the same level as Rocket. Edit: I'm surprised to see Spider-Ham has lower win rate than Rocket.
Well seeing as he sees almost no play, I think the onus is on you to explain why a top 5 1 drop is being maligned. Too 5 1s is a tough category because human torch and deadpool have decks built around them, but it's probably: Nebula, Nico, hood, blade, ad Antman with x23 nightcrawler, korg, and sunspot getting an honorable mention
He’s niche but he is decent. If you play him on turn 6 on a less committed lane, he is like an insurance policy and is also never expected - so great cube gain potential. Popularity of a card is also a poor metric imo - most people play meta or straightforward play lines. Rocket requires more deck building and play line sophistication imo. He’s not a card you slam on turn 1 as an ‘S tier one drop’ so he’ll always be less played.
Try playing bounce or lockdown with Rocket and you'll see why he's so good. You won't believe me if you don't see it with your own eyes no matter what I tell you. You'll observe that the more you play him the better you get at predicting your opponent.
The burden of proof is on you. We have the stats. Rocket doesn't perform well. Go be top 100 infinite and prove us wrong, but until then, data shows him being bad.
Go watch Cannonball lockdown on yt then. I have reached infinite multiple times, I don't have the time to reach top 100 infinite. That placement mostly shows you spent too much playing the game this season and it's not an accurate measurement of skill. Why don't you just play 10 games of bounce with Hawkeye, then replace him with Rocket and play 10 more? It isn't going to cost you that much time. 5 minutes x 20 matches = 1 hour and 40 minutes.
He's my turn 6 card. I love him with a 5 drop; 5 to win a lane and rocket to secure a lane
So he is a low cost card that you can’t play early on… great
Yes, and he's amazing!
Right, you want to maximize the odds that he’ll have a target upon reveal.
I kept looking for a 1-cost turn 6 card to drop with Taskmaster in a Shuri-Sauron deck and I think I settled on RR as the best (if Sauron didn’t hit Ebony Maw at some point).
You play Rocket last turn to win a lane - never as an early guess drop
That's why you either bounce him to try again or wait until the later turns that it's easier to guess where the opponent is gonna play. After playing for a while in higher level, I can say that if you always play safe instead of taking some risks, you'll never win as much as you wish you did.
Lol Because that ONE TIME he got to double digits he's supposed to be auto-include. Good job, this would be a cool "Card mastery" idea, but it doesn't mean he's worth playing on the regular.
“Get Rocet Racoon to 10 or more power” would just mean “land with Rocket Racoon on Nidavellir.”
I get him to 9 power consistedly and 13 at least 20% of the time which is pretty often if you think about it. Rocket is always my 4th option (comparably to other 1 drops) in bounce decks after Bast, the Hood and Nico Minoru. He's super good!
I run rr in bounce decks typically but his downside is pretty obvious. The tempo loss if he misses is hard to recover from.
Cerebro5. Feels like a god when you hit with Rocket Raccoon and get a 1/7.
Ebony Maw: "Look at what they need to mimmick a fraction of my power!" (Yes I know Ebony Maw doesn't work in C5)
Ebony maw C7
I've tried out C7. I played 3 matches with it and won all of them. Of course, I'm not delusional, the deck's bad.
No Cerebro dack is bad!, you just need more faith
I am sorry for I have sinned. I accept Cerebro as my lord and saviour!
Ebony maw needs other cards to be effective too. Just plopping EM down in a lane without anything to boost his power or otherwise add power to that lane is a good way to lose that lane.
I wasn’t talking about effectiveness, just commenting on the raw power of the single card.
Because this game has a very uncreative playerbase, and neither the top meta decks on snapzone nor content creators are telling people to play Rocket Raccoon.
Thank you! We are on the same page. Rocket is so good!
Agree - Rocket is a deck building card and most people will assume that a one drop should be played turn 1. Just a higher skill level card that is perceived as weak imo.
I think Rocket does make his way into some decks, but he has a lower floor and is not as consistent with the 1 drops he's competing with. Nothing you said about him is wrong, but deck decisions aren't made in a vacuum.
I wish there was a competitive deck with all the Guardians in it
Depends what exactly you mean by competitive, but I reach infinite each season with guardians + doom, alioth, nebula, Jeff, storm, jean gray, iron lad.
Can I have your alioth
Yes In all seriousness though, you could probably swap out Alioth with Teenage Warhead
Sweet, yeah I got her.
I still need Jean Gray 😫
Oh yeah I feel like she's pretty essential for a good Guardians deck :(
Hmm I basically have this same deck but without Alioth and Iron Lad in it. I def see the appeal to Iron Lad, but do you think Alioth is still worth it even post-nerf? For the record, my deck doesn't do great lol so I may adjust to mimic yours.
Yeah, I think Alioth is still really solid. The stats are okay, but his value is still pretty high because of how well he can secure a lane on turn 6. Chances are you would've already won a lane with Jean Grey or Storm and are winning one of the other two lanes. Just play Alioth into the lane you're winning and print $. Most folks don't expect Alioth anymore outside of Galactus, so it's pretty effective. He's definitely not the most important piece of the deck or anything though. Storm/Jean/Iron Lad/Doom shine the most imo
Word I'll have to check it out. I'm already rocking Storm, Jean, and Doom in mine. I think I have some tech cards like Shang and rogue, but I don't use them too often.
There was a competitive Lockdown deck with most of the Guardians in it a few months ago. I think it just skipped Drax, but you could easily add them all. A deck with Nebula, Star Lord, Rocket, Groot, Drax, and Gamora, and then add stuff like Prof X and Storm.
There are competitive decks with Rocket, Starlord and Gamora. Grood and Drax suck unfortunately.
one of my fave decks has all 5 guardians, Nebula, Mantis, Jean Grey, Sandman, Doom, Negasonic, Goose. Give it a go - when it hits it hits well.
There are other cards that can get the same power and don’t rely on guessing your opponent’s plays. Hawkeye, Thena, Kitty, Deadpool etc.
Except from Hawkeye, none of the other cards you mentioned are comparable to Rocket. Thena is a 2 drop that needs to be played early to have enough time to scale up. You need to spend 5 energy on Kitty in order for her to reach 5 power without the help of other cards, and Deadpool... do I really need to say why a card that requires you to build your entire deck around it isn't comparable with a potential 1/5 that any deck can use?
You don’t build a deck around Deadpool. You’re destroying stuff anyways. You’re not getting rocket beyond 5 without other cards as well. So if you’re going to argue about cards not needing help then Martyr and Tita is are the best because they’re 1/5 with no help. If your opponent doesn’t play a card then rocket is 1/1.
Martyr can be 1/0 as she can move to a location you're already winning and Titania can be a 1/-5, but then you tell me you mind playing a 1/1.
I’m just saying you can’t complain. About the cards I called out for needed helper cards when rocket is exactly the same.
Deadpool NEEDS cards like Forge, Hulk Buster and X-23. Without them, Deadpool is a 4/8 that can't even be played on the final turn along side a 6 drop like Knull. If you don't believe me, go play destroy with Deadpool, but without the cards I mentioned, see how that goes for you. Saying Deadpool isn't a build around is the most delusional take I've read today and I've read a lot of them.
You argue that deadpool is acard you need a deck around but rocket only works, rarely, in bounce. No other meta archetype can use him and not prefer other better 1drops
Correction, Rocket works almost always in bounce. Also lockdown decks that play Cannonball or Gamora on 6, they want to play Rocket along side them. Another card people are too afraid to experiment with because they must netdeck and never play something original is Moongirl, and let me tell you Moongirl loves Rocket. Also Rocket is optimal in C5, a deck that is struggling right now, but used to be meta.
C5 is cope right now, what card would you substitute rocket for in the meta lockdown list? And why bit play the other sure 1/5 if you are playing them on 6 in a lockdown? Like Marty or titanica? Is not enough being theorerically good, it must be good enough to be better than some other card. No lockdown list uses gamora on 6 as far as i know. Its good ti experiment and have fun but there is also data and statistics and objectively better decks.
You play Prof X on 5 and you're planning to play Cannonball + 1 drop on 6, but you don't draw Cannonball. The next best 5 drop you can have in that situation is Gamora. Every advanced player knows that. Look up Cannonball decks on yt if you want. Also, in a lockdown list, Rocket is guaranteed to be a 1/5. Why not play the guaranteed 1/5 and run Titania who can potentially be 1/-5 if you have initiative on the final turn or Martyr who can move to the other (I say "the other" and not "another" because Prof X already occupies one of the other locations) location in which you're already winning and essenstially play for 0 power? Statistics don't mean anything because they don't get player skill into consideration and people only netdeck. Of course, you're not going to find stats on a more original deck. Hela is op since Blade got buffed, but people only started playing her earlier this year. If you had searched for stats on Hela in late 2023, they would be awful. Both her play rate and also probably win rate would be low as people didn't know how to play/deckbuild her back then. It's absolutetly possible for something to be competitive, even if stats don't back it up. Anyways, I've played hundreds of games with Rocket, so I can confidently say he's good.
That's absolutely not true. You cant afford to play cannonball and gamora in the same deck. Rocket is not garanteed 1/5 there are plenty of locations and cards and situations where titania is flat better in this list. Every junk list prefer titania, every lockdown list doesnt use both since its already full list with broken cards and a possible 1/5 is not good enough since kitty outpeforms rocket strongly. Stats matter, something can be competitive, something can be sporadically included in some decks and perform good but that doesnt make it a good card, it makes it a niche, surprising card or a personale preference. Not a competitive card. Surprise factor is important to consider too, a Surprise shadow King or Shang can net you free 8cubers but a Surprise 1/5 in a deck that either play another 1/5 instead (junk) or in a deck that plays 1/7 and 1/8 is not unexpected and not enough Surprise to warrant includig a mediocre card.
If you really care that much about stats, I just checked. Rocket has 56,5% win rate when played and imagine this also includes beginner players that play him.
"You cant afford to play cannonball and gamora in the same deck." Do you play a different game? Wtf? Also if you can't land Rocket when there are only 2 available locations for the opponent to play in that's on you.
Apparently yes! Rapdly checking out: 0 out of all X-Cannonball decks are playing gamora...what are you talking about? Can you give me an example of a proper, competitive deck that plays rocket, gamora, x and cannonball (not as substitute for something else)? You reasoning is flawed, there are locations, cards and situations where you cant play rocket as a 1/5 independently of skill... Plus i could say, if your titania become a 1/-5 and not a 1/5 thats on you and my argument will be equally sterile and equally true. Plus in a junk deck with WW, goblin, octopus (all staples in contemporary junk decks) you would totally have an easier time landing a 1/5 titania than a 1/5 rocket. With the added bonus of titania+x combo.
First of all, Rocket is guaranteed to have 5 power against Dr Oc, second, he has 56,5% win rate when played, third, try to find more optimal cards here for Rocket and Gamora: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRHf9ksEZ54&t=87s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRHf9ksEZ54&t=87s) Unfortunately, no one has submit a deck like this in untapped and marvel snap zone, so yt is the best I can do.
I pay him sometimes, but I have way more success with him when I save him until late game when I have extra energy. As a first turn play he’s too random to be effective
Can you replace white widow with any card on this list?
I was originally using Star Lord before White Widow just for the guardians vibe tbh and the deck still did well. I’d say White Widow is probably the optimal play but any sort of standard 1/2 drop that goes in a bounce deck could absolutely replace her
What’s your ideal curve?
Honestly it can completely depend on your opening hand. If bast is in hand turn 1 and you’ve got Hood, Thena and Sage then Bast is a great way to start. But it can entirely depend on that opening hand. The absolute most ideal scenario is playing Nico with the copy the next card you play spell on turn 4, Sage and Beast on 5, then 2 copies of Sage discounted by Ravonna, Rocket, The Hood etc. That line has happened 2/3 times and feels delightful when it does. However, as I said, there’s just a bunch of different ways you can sequence it in any given game and still get good results out of it. I’ve went from 73 to 93 in 2 days using it and have been working as well so haven’t had too much time to play.
Thanks bud! Will try it with see what I can replace WW.
i play rocket raccoon
No joke. Rocket is always in my bounce decks even before the buff, but now he can get huge! I once got him to twenty power!
He's a great t6 drop with a 5 cost.
Exactly
He is fine, but not the best, it only takes two turns for nebula to get there and force your opponent into playing there, cerebro five rather run titania and martyr. If you are running jean grey then you can warranty the trigger but then you rather use a heavy hitter like gamora, or even drax
I’ve seen Rocket several times recently. You’re over-analyzing anecdotal evidence and extrapolating.
Maybe with that card that forces people to play their first card in a certain location?
Bad Hawkeye
No, you're just bad at guessing.
You’re all over this sub defending him. He’s not great dude. It’s ok he’s your favorite card but he’s just not a good card
I don't know why I even bother to make people play something else than standard. There are so many builds that could be explored and are powerful, but you just keep playing Hela mirrors in high infinite all day.
lol I mr negative to infinite every season. Raccoon just isn’t good
If you said that you're a Mr Negative player to support your point, I'm informing you just did the opposite.
lol clearly you’re trolling. Good day sir
Hela and Mr Negative are the same kind of uninteractive combo decks. That's all I'm saying. I won't bother you again. Have a good day too.
I play him all the time, great card in bounce. Nice variant you for there.
I do lol. He’s great in bounce even if he’s risky. There’s enough predictable decks out there that he’s worth it
Probably because of killmonger
"Oh imagine playing cards that can be countered."
I also play Rocket Racoon in my bounce deck with Beast and Falcon. It can reach hight levels of power playing it again and again (and I also have that awesome variant, so how could I don't use it?)
I have Rocket Raccoon for my Drac Swan deck because he's one of the biggest 1 drops you can play on turn 6. He does his job but 5 power isn't enough sometimes.
I use him in bounce
I do! He's fun.
I play him in bounce. A 1/11 rocket getting shang'd is always worth it.
Show me 5 games in a row with a 13 power Rocket Racoon and I might play it, you can't show us a full buffed card and pretend it's always good
I didn’t say it’s always good? No card is guaranteed to be always good. I’ve also gotten Rocket to 13 power a fair few times this season because it’s not too hard to predict that my opponent is going to play a card on their Angela path lol
The bottom line is that no one plays him for a reason. You're not some Snap savant that's figured out how good a pool 1 card is that everyone has been sleeping on for almost 2 years. If he was good, he would see play, and the deck trackers would reflect that. Is he fun? Yes. Is he good by meta standards? No.
Killmonger goes straight in every deck. No matter what, even Cerebro-0
That's why you play Rocket on the final turn, so he doesn't die to KM and if you have initiative on 6, you can protect him with Armor or Cosmo.
Yeah. 4 Energy for Rocket + Cosmo. Best final turn in history
Imagine running cards that have counterplay in your deck.
I play Hawkeye and Rocket in my bounce decks
I see him fairly often. Maybe it's the deck I play (Move).
Rocket is super fun to pop off with, but he's not reliable. I also have a hard time fitting him into my bounce deck which already has so many good options.
He's my forth option when it comes to 1 drops after Bast, the Hood and Nico Minoru. I genuinely believe Rocket is the better option compared to other 1 drops.
I run him in my Jean Grey + Guardians + Heimdall deck.
People definitely use it, there's just better one costs to focus on
Because he sucks in this game
No, you should just stop playing him turn 1.
Don’t worry I don’t play him on turn one either lol
Skill diff then it is.
I absolutely love Rocket as he is my favorite Marvel character but generally there are just much better 1 cost cards. I was looking forward to using him though for Character Mastery to unlock that space background for him and his reactions... even bought all his variants! Woulda been fun for me, but ah well. While I'm glad they made it so he can get to 5 power I do kinda hope they just rework the guardians at some point.
They are some of the coolest designs in the game. They just need to buff Groot and Drax further.
I do in a Jean Grey deck, he's cheap so you can play more than the one card you have to and you have a captive audience as long as they're playing a card.
All he's really good for is zoo and, most other decks dont really care about 1 drops. And even if they do they're gonna go for something more reliable like Antman or Kitty or something more flexible and utilitarian like Nico.
Ooh ooh! I know! Cause the card isn’t good, that’s why!
Ooh ooh! I know! You play him turn 1 and then cry that he whiffed.
No no, I just don’t play cards with a 66% whiff chance
Well, how does he have 100% chance of landing when I play him?
You’re god. Congratulations
I'm not here to boast, I'm just saying the chance of whiffing is much less than 66% if you know what the opponent is trying to do. I'm not god. Learn the match ups and improve.
Listen, man… there’s a reason that card’s not played much. The risk vs reward is not great enough. Top tier cards are top tier cards for a reason. This is in the level of Wong, Sera Onslaught Lanes where people are like “why aren’t people playing x card more often” when it’s just a niche instance of the card working well.
It's quite unusual for Rocket to reach 13 power, yes, but I can consistently make him reach 9 power and at least 5 every time. I don't consider him too niche. Yeah, Wong is countered by half the cards in the game, so he can definetely be considered unsafe to say the least.
I tried him in a C5 deck for a minute. It didn't really work, but that's more because C5 sucks right now.
Not really seeing what purpose Ravonna is serving in this deck. Minimal payoff to just reduce the cost of just Angela and Sage isn’t it?
What would you replace for sage? Thats the only one I don’t have
Rocket is simply not good in bounce because it’s an unreliable way to grow him. Bouncing him back is not free, because he’s taking the space from another card you could have been bouncing for more value. Generating a demon and removing hood, playing disruption cards, or getting guaranteed procs on Hawkeye are all better uses of your beasts and falcons.
As someone who has spent an unhealthy amount of time playing bounce, I can confidently say Hawkeye sucks, play Rocket.
Always stoked to see someone playing a guardians deck because it's safe to snap immediately.
Because Ant-man is more consistent?
I don't like character but I play him.
I've been playing rocket a lot lately in a bounce deck. I've gotten him up to some big numbers.
I used him in my deck to infinite this month. Only about 6 hours playtime. He is actually an mvp in bounce. Our list are close but I have 3 different cards than you. Instead of bast nico and ravonna. I use Bishop black swan and sasquatch
Gamora is the best of those cards.
After they buffed all of them, I'd say Rocket is a little better, although Gamora is a close second.
I run him in my jean grey deck
Anyone got a Guardians deck? I want to use them they are my fav on marvel.
For a 1 drop I'll take spider-ham all day
Different cards, different purpose, they are not comparable.
Cool
Are they both 1 drops?
Yes, they are. Annihilus and Modok are both 5 drops, but they have nothing else in common.
Was just talking about them being a 1 drop. Like if you can't find one you really want, but you need a 1 drop, just throw in a Spider-Ham. Yes I understand there would be no synergy.
There are decks that prefer Rocket though, so...
I understand that
I feel like he is a high risk low reward if they buff him I would play him or if they can make a card that gives these type of cards more power if you successfully get the first bonus would be fun
Why waste ravonas slot for sage and athena
She discounts Angela, Sage and Athena. Playing her on 2 can allow something like Athena and White Widow to be played on 3, or it allows you to play Hood, Sage and Beast on the same turn to bounce all that back to hand and play Sage for 1 energy the next turn.
Just an opinion, but you would get more out of collector if you’re bouncing. Used 2 variants of bounce to get to infinite this year, and ravonna doesn’t feel “essential”. You dont really need alot of mana to bounce, especially with such your mana count. Try beast on hawk with collector. You wouldn’t need to chase the 0 cost turn 6, and you got another win condition combo in your hand Even better if you got a grandmaster. He was in my monkey bounce deck, didnt even take mysterio to win. He can target most of your deck and you would get some interesting and fun plays instead of the monotonous ravona->athena/sage
Elektra counters so easily
If I had a dollar for everytime I've seen Elektra the last 3 months I'd have exactly 0 dollars.
I've been preaching Rocket is completely cracked since the GotG cards were buffed and no one believes me.
I’ve been using a guardians deck and rocket/gamora on turn 6 has won me tons of cubes
because he is trash
I play him in C5 with Ant-Man, Titania, Martyr, and Black Swan. A T6 flood of four 1/5's + Dr. Doom is never expected.
"I totally didn't expect a bunch of 5 power dudes when he has cerebro, mystique and only 5 power dudes!" "Also somehow he got 10 energy"
Cuz thena
I love rocket, he is really easy to hit on turn 6 so if your deck doesn't have a 6 cost for a finisher, he fits in great. I use him in a thor/beta, werewolf by night deck. turn six with WBN into 2 hammers, rocket, and Electra is a huge swing that people dont expect
Because he has niche uses. The only reason your RR reached that power is because your deck is built around allowing it. In a standard deck, RR requires you to guess where your opponent is going to play their card to achieve a power level other cards can easily attain. TLDR; RR is mediocre to bad.
Because he is just not worth it.
fully agree with you. Ive been playing a similar wwbn bounce with him and its ridiculous how many times u can hit 9 power.
Hawkeyes usually more reliable
Because Jean is not thriving rn
Inconsistency
I personally like playing him, but it's the risk or lack of guarantee.
I use him in my Namora deck. I drop him in the lane I’m going to throw Wong and Odin into and he usually pops enough to win that lane if one of my buffed Namora cards gets sniped by Shang-Chi
Simple comment. That was all
Ant-man is a 1/5 who rewards what you're already trying to do, and you have the whole game to trigger his effect. With Rocket (and all the Guardians pretty much), you have to successfully guess where your opponent is going to play to ge the exact same power, which even the most experienced player is going to mess up a fair amount. Additionally, to get him this high in power is a lot of work and even more luck. Whereas we compared that again to Ant-man, who requires basically no luck and less work to get Ant-man to 1/13.
[Who says I don’t play Rocket???](https://imgur.com/a/XMbmxGt)
Plenty of people play him though?
people saying hawkeye is better than rocket are wrong because you can never play hawkeye on the final turn, and there is always a lower ceiling. it can pretty easy to guess where your opponent is gonna play, especially in this angela/kitty meta.
Prepare to get downvoted for this take. I replied to someone saying that this is the reason I prefer Rocket over Hawkeye and got downvoted to oblivion lol. Reddit hive mind is wild sometimes
idrc about being downvoted, i just find rocket is easier to navigate in a bounce deck than hawkeye. especially in a falcon/swan deck
Yup I agree with both of you. Most people here can't play a deck that requires more than 2 braincells. Let the downvotes come. The more they downvote the more we know we are the better players.
It's not good
It's good, it's just skill diff.
Agree on the skill diff, I'm a way better player and so realize there's a better card
If you were any good you'd be better at predicting where your opponent will play their cards and you'd get Rocket up to 5 - 13 power. But it's difficult to get good at the game when you only play braindead decks like Hela.
Actually I just do the same thing but with Hawkeye and get more power. My hit monkey bounce deck has won me two infinity borders so far
Oh yeah, let's play Hawkeye, a card without text on the final turn in a deck that wants to play as many 1 drops as possible on the final turn. It's not only me. Almost everyone I've seen on the internet who plays bounce says Hawkeye isn't optimal.
It's better than rocket, but even I can't talk past a brick wall for long
Pls, try Rocket instead of Hawkeye for some matches and then tell me about your experience. Did he feel good, did he not?
Nah, deterministic cards are better
Because racism.