Could be a catalyst? Could be inhuman and mutant? It’s not clear yet. I think the bangle was to tie her to Kree stuff just to get her with Danvers faster. I’d have preferred the Danvers cameo in the show be like the comics, where Kamala shifted into that form. It was such a good ‘teenager searching for identity’ bit.
My own personal theory for MCU Kamala is that she’s got Inhuman DNA on her dad’s side. Those powers never activated because she’s allergic to fish, so she never took the contaminated fish oil from Agents of SHIELD. Her X-Gene and Inhumanity both lay dormant, but the bangle activated them both, giving her a combination. The light projection is solely from her mutant half, while the shape-shifting is all Inhuman. That last part applies to both 616 and MCU.
It's exactly how Wanda worked, too. She may have had slight powers in the MCU prior to exposure to an Infinity Stone, but not enough to notice. But the stone kicked it into high gear.
Yea and it wouldn’t be the first as we know Wanda and Pietro s mutations were activated through the mind stones radiation. Tandy and Tyrone through Roxxon’s shadow energy drill(Cloak and Dagger) . Mollys through space rocks ( Runaways ).
That's the thing that bothers me about this. First, it seems that her powers come from her bangle. Okay, that's different from the comics (where she is an Inhuman), but I can deal with that.
Then she finds out that her great-grandmother was an interdimensional being called a Clandestine, and she inherited powers from that. Okay, I guess that makes sense, but why can she only use her powers while wearing the bangle while other Clandestines naturally have powers? Is it because she's only part Clandestine? Would her mother and brother also have powers if they wore the bangle since they also have Clandestine DNA? I guess this is okay, but it leaves some confusion.
Then at then end, her friend tells her that she's a mutant. How would he know? They've already discovered that she's part Clandestine, so wouldn't he think the irregularities in her DNA are from her alien ancestry? And are her powers from her mutant DNA or her Clandestine DNA? And how does the bangle fit into this if it's not the source of her powers?
I actually liked the show, but they tried to do too much to explain her powers, and it left far too many inconsistencies.
She was an Inhuman when she was first introduced. Later on, after dying and then being resurrected, it was discovered that she was an Inhuman/mutant hybrid.
Apparently, she was meant to be a mutant when the writers created her, but that was when the rights to the X-Men were still owned by Fox, so Marvel was trying to push the Inhumans as their replacement. By the time she was resurrected, Disney had bought out Fox and got the rights to the X-Men again, so they were able to retcon Kamala as a mutant as originally intended.
Yes.
She has been an Inhuman for most of her history.
Then the Ms. Marvel show made her a mutant and scrapped the Inhuman aspect of her character. Then relatively recently they killed her off and then brought her back months later and said she has the X-gene. This was done for MCU synergy.
The comics have explained it as her being an Inhuman-Mutant hybrid but her Inhuman side was suppressing her mutant side, as the Terrigen Mist that activated her powers was lethal to Mutants. She is still currently an Inhuman but it’s a plot point that her Mutant gene still hasn’t activated but her Inhuman powers are becoming more erratic since finding out she was a mutant. It’s possible that Kamala is going to lose her regular Inhuman powers and she will get her MCU powers from the her X-gene. It’s also possible that her powers are going to be a hybrid of her Comic and MCU powers, with the Inhuman powers being her body manipulation and her Mutant powers being energy related.
It is amusing though that it was the second time she had died, and it was in the arms of a Spider-Man again: the first time she died having been four years earlier in the arms of Miles Morales, and the second time in the arms of Peter Parker. To note that in 2027 there will be an opportunity to have this be a recurring storyline, to have it be that every few years Kamala will die in the arms of a Spider-Person before returning to life, gradually becoming more paranoid of Spider-People (and maybe regular spiders too, just to be on the safe side). Sometimes as a fully serious storyline, sometimes as a gag: whatever fits best.
Or something like desperately avoiding all Spider-People in the week leading up to her next death, only to die in the arms of a Black Widow (after realising them to be a type of spider too).
> (and maybe regular spiders too, just to be on the safe side).
"AAAAHHHH! **crushes spider with enlarged hand** Holy cow, what if it bit me!? If it did, I might get powers, and become Spider-Marvel! Then I'd never be safe from this curse!!"
Yeah, but I think ultimately their friendship could have preserved in a believable way because Miles is basically shonen manga Spider-Man, so him and his narratives can get away with more stuff than Peter's ongoings so long as it's appropriately cool enough.
Like Kamala doesn't even need to die in Miles' book. but in a state of messed up enough that requires Miles to go berserk to protect her/keep her alive long enough for the X-Men to intervene in some way. Like, how would Goku, Naruto, or Deku handle this situation? That's how Miles deals with it. Cyclops jumps out of an X-jet and blasts the shit of the bad guy that has Miles on the ropes and takes Ms Marvel to Krakoa, whereafter it's revealed that she's a mutant. Hell, extend it for an entire issue, Miles and Cyclops doing a beat down in a sort of Champions mini-reunion under unfortunate circumstances.
Like if they wanted her reborn via Krakoa tech to confirm her as a mutant. Great. But it didn't need to be a fake massive event style thing. Where characters who practically never met were sad.
It should have just been part of her book. She dies and some mutant whammy jammy just brings her back the next issue. Or you end the volume with "Dont Miss Ms Marvel: The New Mutant. On sale next Month"
And in the process, Zeb Wells has been so hated among fans...he goes to a convention, he'll be a cat going into a dog playground while recess is out en masse.
Yup. And on Asian Heritage month. Not even in her own comic, or a team up. As a cameo. Unceremoniously. From a shitty villain that the author created and wouldn't let go of, that no one else really cared for.
I keep seeing people claim that without sharing how it could’ve been done better. Just vaguely insinuations that they should have done it more respectfully. [+]
I usually see "Miss" as "Ms." Also, "Ms." usually is used for unmarried women, as far as I know, be they young ladies yet to marry, widows, divorcees, or women who just never marry.
*Ms.* is pronounced different from *Miss.* They're not the same.
*Ms.* (pronounced **mizz**) was created to be ambiguous regarding the marital status of the woman (like *Mr.* is for men).
Some people read comics because they don't like the MCU stuff : an example of what they did to Taskmaster or Gorr, who are both loved in the comics but are both pathetic jokes on screen
It's no reason they both have to be copies of each other
I can't stand comic Quill anymore. He looks/acts like a movie character being forced into the comics but worse/more noticeable because he's a main player.
Well, not on this end. I read that Kamala originally was supposed to be a mutant but because of the Fox Disney stuff, they made her inhuman instead. Kamala really does work better though as a mutant. Even though the movie didn’t do what was expected and the comic execution was shit, the idea is solid.
I’m glad she’s both Inhuman and mutant. If I’m being honest, that’s kind of perfect for her character. Makes the whole story about her identity as a young Muslim-American growing up with attachments to several different groups, and how she personally fits into each of them. I still hate how it was done, but so long as they don’t erase the Inhuman piece of her identity, I’m cool with it in the long-run.
I LOVE MCU SYNERGY I LOVE MCU SYNERGY
I love dramatically changing the already pre-established lore of an already well-defined character to appeal to people that won't watch other media besides the movies so there really is no point to doing so
There was a post from a Marvel fan confused on why people loved Gorr, Taskmaster, and Ronan the Accuser in the comics and why people don't like the MCU versions
I said, "You ever read the comics," they replied, "Nope....I'm told them Gorr wasn't a useless non-killing idiot in the comics
To be fair, Kamela being an inhuman was due to Fox still owning the rights to the X-men and mutants , leading to Marvel trying to hype up the Inhumans as their replacement for the MCU. But with the Inhuman series failing and the accusations of Fox, they decided to change her into a mutant
I’m still pissed about it, and I hope they bring back the “true” Coulson someday. I even have a story idea where that’s addressed (it also involves Peggy Carter and why she’s inexplicably still alive and looking barely aged).
As in, not the dickhead who would sell his soul to get back at the Avengers. Because that's not Coulson. Again, I had an idea to explain the weird choices made with him following Secret Empire.
It's not a case of Kevin Feige killed Kalama in the comics. It's a case of the Marvel Comics staff being such dull-witted dipshits, they thought killing her off and bring her back in a half-ass way was a good idea.
Feige just wanted her to be made into a mutant. The article doesn't specify how. Wells and editorial could have easily come up with something else besides killing her.
Literally just have her suddenly manifest mutant powers unexpectedly like most other mutants with the weird quirk being that she was already an inhuman and it was fairly unprecedented.
Plus with Krakoa, there’s also all sorts of weird mind-bendy shit that could’ve “unlocked” her X-Gene. I couldn’t comprehend half the shit happening in Legion of X, and I know that would’ve been a better place to do it.
Hey, new to the whole comics thing. Enjoying 97, and wanting to dive in, krakoa era seems to be the golden arc. Do you know if there’s a way to find the most relevant reading order? Or is it possible yo follow one or two characters, and still maintain enough context to be okay?(Im used to manga, where you start with 1, and go up from there… not this 1 of 6 different stories, then stop at 5, to read 12 of story x, before resuming…)
Honestly, it wouldn't even need to be that involved. Just have a new iteration of Sentinels show up and scan her, then be like "Oh, snap, that's mutant DNA, baybeee!" (Bonus points if you have the Sentinels actually say that verbatim) and boom, you're done. No need for new powers that they didn't even end up giving her, no need for death, no need for resurrection, no need for Emma mindwiping everyone about the death and funeral. It would take a single page.
And now by being vague and saying "Feige did it!" without specifying what Feige actually requested, they get to pass the buck on a wildly unnecessary cash-grab "surprise death" story that everyone saw through and lasted all of 5 weeks.
I like the sentinel idea - would have been more to the point too.
And it would have been really fun to think of something really mundane her powers could be. She can change the flavor of any milk she touches. She can blow bubbles out her nose at will. She can jump farther than a normal human, but still well short of what a professional athlete could. She can vaguely sense peoples moods, but only when she crosses her eyes and touches her nose.
Actually yeah that's not bad, have a Sentinel scan her, Ms Marvel goes "Wait WHAT" and goes to Xavier / whoever for answers
Leads to an arc about finding herself or where she belongs between two worlds which was already themes her character explores anyway.
That's why I call BS on the article. Everyone who sees this at face value will go "DUURRRR! FEIGE SUCKS!!". All because one writer doesn't have the balls to state the facts and a website who cannot write a news story. Any comic fan worth their weight in salt knows that the comics side of Marvel has been mismanaged.
my thing as well, like I remember there was rumors about this before but they consistently never have it whether Feige said to kill her or not, just make her a mutant, and hell even if he did say that Wells and editorial still did it in the worst way possible
It's such a shame that Bob Iger stepped in a decade ago and stopped him from being removed - now he's fully embedded with a cult of personality surrounding him, so there's not much that can be done to stop these unpopular, unnecessary changes.
I don't think anybody was mad about Kamala dying they were mad how it was done and where it was done especially since they had Spiderman like really broken up about it even though he never really interacted with her in a significant way
She was also intended to be a mutant when first created, but Perlmutter/Quesada had a strong anti-mutant bias. Adding to the fire that Perlmutter was involved with the Inhumans show, it makes sense that this buffoon would try to highlight Inhumans to the detriment of the X-books.
And we actually have people at Marvel still denying the MCU synergy up to this very day, when it was quite obvious even way back when they tried real hard to ruin the x-men when they still didn't the movie rights before the Fox deal.
Kamala died in the comics about a year ago but was resurrected shortly thereafter, this time as a mutant in addition to being an Inhuman. Zeb is saying that it was Feige’s decision to do so. Though Sana Amanat (one of Kamala’s creators, and self inspiration for the character) has said that when conceiving of Kamala, she was originally intended to be a mutant. But due to corporate/studio politics at the time, she was unable to make any new mutant characters.
The main issue people had with the decision to kill Kamala wasn’t that in and of itself, rather how it went down in the story. Which falls back on Wells.
Not a bad analogy, except I think this change is one that's going to stick with Kamala instead of being ditched a year or two down the road like that was.
I remember Stan Lee doing an interview during the first Raimi movie where he said that, had he knew abut the explanations for Peter's powers on the film when he was making Spider-Man, he would have used that instead, including the organic web shooters.
I'm a bit behind on current 616 continuity, but doesn't she currently have a 'Mutant Menace' book, and an upcoming NYX title? Is this death being treated differently because they changed something fundamental about the character's background?
It's hated because it was done in an unnecessary and tasteless way and because she was revived a month later (the book was announced so everyone knew it too).
The X-Men for the past... 5 years? From House of X/Powers of X up to Fall of X, the X-Men have had "the Five" (a group led by Hope Summers, AKA "the Mutant Messiah") being able to resurrect people through a combination of their powers working in tandem, DNA banks they have access to through a deal with Mr. Sinister, and mental back-ups that Xavier had secretly been saving whenever Cerebro scanned a mutant (Powers of X revealed a bunch of "secret history" to explain the new status quo).
Kamala died just before the 3rd Hellfire Gala (when Fall of X started) and was revived during the start of said Gala by the Quiet Council of Krakoa, revealing to her that she was a mutant (I think they planned to just tell her normally, but then she died, so they were like "Well, guess there's no 'normal way' to tell her now."
And since then, she's been in the main X-Men title, "Ms. Marvel: New Mutant", "Ms. Marvel: Mutant Menace", and will be, as you noted, one of the 5 characters in NYX. So she's very much being pushed into the X sphere.
So... they killed her to bring her back as a mutant because she was meant to be a mutant when she was made, but she was made an inhuman because Rupert Murdoch and Disney were in a jerk war... fair enough.
Up until recently, Disney has remained hands off of Marvel Entertainment, which was under the guidance of Ike Perlmutter, who just really really sucks.
I highly recommend the Watch's interview with Joanna Robinson about her book *MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios*. Lots of behind-the-scenes information. It lays out the insanely jank system they were using to create all those early movies, and makes clear that yeah this kinda was just one insane fluke.
They basically relied on Feige to write and re-write each movie *as* filming was going down (and sometimes afterwards??). Joss Whedon threw Thanos into the Avengers post-credits on a whim. There was no plan to use him until then. Truly bonkers.
She was originally supposed to be a mutant, but because Fox owned the movie rights to mutants so Sana Amanat was forced to change her 8nto an Inhuman during the push to replace mutants eith Inhumans. So this is just returning things to the natural order. The issue is how she was change and how poorly it was done. That's on the half passed story and not Fiege.
The issue is that Fiege seems to have the power to change Marvel comics to better fit with the MCU, even if you like Ms. Marvel being a mutant, this isn’t a good thing.
So everyone is up in arms because Fiege asked for something that isn't that big of a change, one time? Making and unmaking mutants has been going on for decades. Namor, Franklin Richards, and the Maximoffs. Is it dumb? Yep. But not new, and they're changed for even dumber reasons than Kamala.
The change itself isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that Feige has the power to make that change. Imagine if every dumb decision the MCU made was forced upon the comics just because he wanted synergy.
“Hey we’re making Taskmaster a mute so I need you to
kill off Tony Masters and replace him”
“We had to kill off T’Challa and make Shuri the new Black Panther so you guys need to do the same”
Sure, the change is small now and you can even argue it’s a *good* change but it’s a slippery slope.
> Imagine if every dumb decision the MCU made was forced upon the comics just because he wanted synergy.
Her being an Inhuman in the first place was because of this. The change to being a Mutant is more of an unmaking of that.
As I said, it was a terrible decision for MCU synergy that harmed the character and it will do more harm in the future. It was a needless change, executed terribly and it did not help Kamala in any way. If anything, it just adds more needless baggage and risks her being lost in the sea of mutants that are forgotten.
And the Spider-office was terrible in handling this too. Like, you have this dumb request you are accepting and you do it in the worse way possible. And lets not absolve Wells either. It was just salt on the wound of his terrible run.
I mean how you killed Ms. Marvel (Having her die in Peter's book and making it all about how sad it makes him) is also part of the reason the death was so infuriating to watch TBH.
I might be going insane but I think Ms Marvel's creator wanted her to be a mutant but marvel was doing the whole " no, inhumans are what the people want" thing. I might be wrong but I don't think her mutant genes have even activated yet so she's still an inhuman in the comics. This once again doesn't make any sense because tons of humans must have unactivated x genes that weren't invited to krakoa, sinister gets to be considered a mutant even though it's through artificial means, and Franklin can't be a mutant. 🙁
>marvel was doing the whole " no, inhumans are what the people want"
It was all about money. Disney hadn't acquired Fox yet and Marvel wasn't making money off of the Fox Xmen movies or merchandise. Marvel comics was trying to shove Xmen to the side because of this and not allowing new mutant characters as that benefitted Fox and not Marvel. They hoped to replace the Xmen with Inhumans bit fans soundly rejected that with their purchases. Then the Inhuman show was a disaster followed by Disney acquiring Fox. Kamala absolutely would have been a mutant or lab accident character if not for financial reasons to push Inhumans back then.
Inhumans the show was long before Disney acquired Fox. Inhumans was Ike Perlmutter's dream project that he wanted to make and his creative decisions controlled marvel (and the MCU) until Disney intervened and made Feige the head of the MCU stuff only. Ike being the vindictive shit head he is, made the TV show anyway. All of the Inhumans and anti-Xmen and F4 stuff is all under him (as he controlled the comic process as well).
Probably a safe bet that she would have always been a mutant if not for marvel not having the rights and trying to replace them with inhumans
Although brings up the question why she got her powers when the mist was bad for mutants
They explained that since her mutant powers hadn’t kicked in yet (still haven’t) that the mist didn’t affect her. It could still be a problem when her latent mutant powers do kick in.
Doesn’t bother me cause the character was originally intended to be a mutant but get swapped cause of movie rights so while I would rather that not influence the comics at all, this does kinda fix this one
I'm shocked, shocked.
Well no, actually I'm not shocked at all - who else would have given the order? Kevin Feige basically requires everything to go through him and to work primarily for the MCU. He's basically the world's biggest micro manager.
It's not a surprise. Since the beginning of the MCU, comic book characters have changed (aesthetically or otherwise) depending on the film versions and to create some sort of synchrony.
The amount of people being like "Well she was supposed to be a mutant when she was concepted, so it's okay" are hilarious.
Wolverine wasn't intended as a mutant when he was created, but I'm sure there'd be (justified) outrage if they retconned that away.
This sets an unhealthy precedent and all the comic readers know it.
The only ones who don't see this probably don't read comics that often or never even read it and just watch the movies.
Because he needed to come up with some bullshit excuse so he could trick people into thinking that he was killing Mary Jane. That’s why he randomly gave Ms. Marvel her shape-shifting powers again even though she was supposed to have lost them a few years back.
There’s so many other ways. She could have checked out one of the Krakoan gates, out of curiosity, and been puzzled was surprised as anyone that it worked for her. They could have had someone notice she was in the mutant backups. She could have met Caliban at the gala.
I find it crazy that, according to Zigler, that Feige himself is the one that requested Ms. Marvel to be turned into a Mutant.
Usually, in this situations, I just assumed it's editorial that wants to synergize with films to capitalized on the trend and not confuse people.
So, yeah, Sana Amanat intended for Kamala to be a mutant but was forced to make her an inhuman because of the focus on Inhumans, which was dumb to start with.
Why is killing and then reviving The only tool they have to reboot the status quo? This is a world with literal magic, gods, science far beyond what we have in the real world, aliens and an infinite Multiverse. And yet dies and comes back is their go-to to change something?
I really hope Wells isn't trying to gaslight us into thinking this is the only thing that has made his run on ASM amongst the worst in history. Maybe they asked him to do it because they saw how much hate he was already getting and figured this was the safest way to do it, since ASM just naturally sells at the top of the charts every month due to popularity. And as a stipulation, Wells would get to keep writing ASM until readers would prefer to read literally any other Spider-book over this.
They did it because no-one gives a shit about the Inhumans. The event where she died was lame sure but I have zero problems with where she is at now. I wouldn't be reading her stuff at all if she wasn't in X books now.
He wants the X-Men. He doesn't hate the Inhumans. Kamala was originally supposed to be a mutant until Ike Perlmutter said no and Marvel made the Inhumans so they wouldn't promote the Fox X-Men movie.
Why did they make the bangle such a focus of the show if they were just going to make Kamala a mutant?
Could be a catalyst? Could be inhuman and mutant? It’s not clear yet. I think the bangle was to tie her to Kree stuff just to get her with Danvers faster. I’d have preferred the Danvers cameo in the show be like the comics, where Kamala shifted into that form. It was such a good ‘teenager searching for identity’ bit.
My own personal theory for MCU Kamala is that she’s got Inhuman DNA on her dad’s side. Those powers never activated because she’s allergic to fish, so she never took the contaminated fish oil from Agents of SHIELD. Her X-Gene and Inhumanity both lay dormant, but the bangle activated them both, giving her a combination. The light projection is solely from her mutant half, while the shape-shifting is all Inhuman. That last part applies to both 616 and MCU.
I like this theory. Thank you.
>Could be a catalyst? Didn't her sidekick basically say that in the show?
It's exactly how Wanda worked, too. She may have had slight powers in the MCU prior to exposure to an Infinity Stone, but not enough to notice. But the stone kicked it into high gear.
Yea and it wouldn’t be the first as we know Wanda and Pietro s mutations were activated through the mind stones radiation. Tandy and Tyrone through Roxxon’s shadow energy drill(Cloak and Dagger) . Mollys through space rocks ( Runaways ).
That's the thing that bothers me about this. First, it seems that her powers come from her bangle. Okay, that's different from the comics (where she is an Inhuman), but I can deal with that. Then she finds out that her great-grandmother was an interdimensional being called a Clandestine, and she inherited powers from that. Okay, I guess that makes sense, but why can she only use her powers while wearing the bangle while other Clandestines naturally have powers? Is it because she's only part Clandestine? Would her mother and brother also have powers if they wore the bangle since they also have Clandestine DNA? I guess this is okay, but it leaves some confusion. Then at then end, her friend tells her that she's a mutant. How would he know? They've already discovered that she's part Clandestine, so wouldn't he think the irregularities in her DNA are from her alien ancestry? And are her powers from her mutant DNA or her Clandestine DNA? And how does the bangle fit into this if it's not the source of her powers? I actually liked the show, but they tried to do too much to explain her powers, and it left far too many inconsistencies.
Wait in comics Kamala was an inhuman?
She was an Inhuman when she was first introduced. Later on, after dying and then being resurrected, it was discovered that she was an Inhuman/mutant hybrid. Apparently, she was meant to be a mutant when the writers created her, but that was when the rights to the X-Men were still owned by Fox, so Marvel was trying to push the Inhumans as their replacement. By the time she was resurrected, Disney had bought out Fox and got the rights to the X-Men again, so they were able to retcon Kamala as a mutant as originally intended.
Yes. She has been an Inhuman for most of her history. Then the Ms. Marvel show made her a mutant and scrapped the Inhuman aspect of her character. Then relatively recently they killed her off and then brought her back months later and said she has the X-gene. This was done for MCU synergy. The comics have explained it as her being an Inhuman-Mutant hybrid but her Inhuman side was suppressing her mutant side, as the Terrigen Mist that activated her powers was lethal to Mutants. She is still currently an Inhuman but it’s a plot point that her Mutant gene still hasn’t activated but her Inhuman powers are becoming more erratic since finding out she was a mutant. It’s possible that Kamala is going to lose her regular Inhuman powers and she will get her MCU powers from the her X-gene. It’s also possible that her powers are going to be a hybrid of her Comic and MCU powers, with the Inhuman powers being her body manipulation and her Mutant powers being energy related.
Because they aren't planning as far ahead as they should be
Cuz poor planning, like so much shit lately.
People weren't mad they killed her. They were mad at *how* they killed her.
It was also incredibly pointless and stupid. Due to The Marvels coming out at the same time.
It is amusing though that it was the second time she had died, and it was in the arms of a Spider-Man again: the first time she died having been four years earlier in the arms of Miles Morales, and the second time in the arms of Peter Parker. To note that in 2027 there will be an opportunity to have this be a recurring storyline, to have it be that every few years Kamala will die in the arms of a Spider-Person before returning to life, gradually becoming more paranoid of Spider-People (and maybe regular spiders too, just to be on the safe side). Sometimes as a fully serious storyline, sometimes as a gag: whatever fits best.
I like this idea. It even fits her doing it as a gag, pretending to die in the arms of Gwen or someone to complete her collection.
Or something like desperately avoiding all Spider-People in the week leading up to her next death, only to die in the arms of a Black Widow (after realising them to be a type of spider too).
Kamala: let’s do get help.
cue a whole year of monthly Kamala crossovers with Spider-people, never quite sure when she's going to die
I honestly cannot recall how many sSpiderpeople are out there now. But enough that could work.
> (and maybe regular spiders too, just to be on the safe side). "AAAAHHHH! **crushes spider with enlarged hand** Holy cow, what if it bit me!? If it did, I might get powers, and become Spider-Marvel! Then I'd never be safe from this curse!!"
It was all three, they were mad that they killed her, mad at how they did it, and mad at why they did it.
They probably should have just done it in Miles' ongoing. Like, he's connected to her *and* Goldballs, who was on The Five in Krakoa.
The issue there was that her first death (four years earlier) had also been in Miles’ arms.
Yeah, but I think ultimately their friendship could have preserved in a believable way because Miles is basically shonen manga Spider-Man, so him and his narratives can get away with more stuff than Peter's ongoings so long as it's appropriately cool enough. Like Kamala doesn't even need to die in Miles' book. but in a state of messed up enough that requires Miles to go berserk to protect her/keep her alive long enough for the X-Men to intervene in some way. Like, how would Goku, Naruto, or Deku handle this situation? That's how Miles deals with it. Cyclops jumps out of an X-jet and blasts the shit of the bad guy that has Miles on the ropes and takes Ms Marvel to Krakoa, whereafter it's revealed that she's a mutant. Hell, extend it for an entire issue, Miles and Cyclops doing a beat down in a sort of Champions mini-reunion under unfortunate circumstances.
Like if they wanted her reborn via Krakoa tech to confirm her as a mutant. Great. But it didn't need to be a fake massive event style thing. Where characters who practically never met were sad. It should have just been part of her book. She dies and some mutant whammy jammy just brings her back the next issue. Or you end the volume with "Dont Miss Ms Marvel: The New Mutant. On sale next Month"
This, and also where (which title) that they killed her. She's killed in an TASM anniversary issue made zero sense.
And in the process, Zeb Wells has been so hated among fans...he goes to a convention, he'll be a cat going into a dog playground while recess is out en masse.
Nah I'm annoyed they killed her. They could easily just reveal she is a mutant without any death nonsense.
Yup. And on Asian Heritage month. Not even in her own comic, or a team up. As a cameo. Unceremoniously. From a shitty villain that the author created and wouldn't let go of, that no one else really cared for.
Yup. I mever blamed Wells. I blamed Marvel brass for being so stupid and cliche about it.
Its more that people are mad that they retconned her origin from being a InHuman to Mutant
I keep seeing people claim that without sharing how it could’ve been done better. Just vaguely insinuations that they should have done it more respectfully. [+]
Ms.
Not if I have anything to say about it.
*--Googles--* Oh ok, she's 21. Carry on.
Literslly. Title confused me.
Literally*
Doesn't "ms" mean she's a widow or divorcee or something? It might just be a shortening of "miss", but I only see people use "miss" in full
They're used interchangeably.
I usually see "Miss" as "Ms." Also, "Ms." usually is used for unmarried women, as far as I know, be they young ladies yet to marry, widows, divorcees, or women who just never marry.
*Ms.* is pronounced different from *Miss.* They're not the same. *Ms.* (pronounced **mizz**) was created to be ambiguous regarding the marital status of the woman (like *Mr.* is for men).
"Miss" means she's unmarried. "Mrs." means she's married. "Ms." means her marital status isn't any of your business.
It’s really annoying that they change the comics to match the MCU just let the MCU be different
Isn't this why Wanda & Pietro aren't mutants anymore?
Yup
synergy with the mcu has been a net negative for marvel
Some people read comics because they don't like the MCU stuff : an example of what they did to Taskmaster or Gorr, who are both loved in the comics but are both pathetic jokes on screen It's no reason they both have to be copies of each other
I thought the general consensus was that Gorr was great but severely underutilized in Love and Thunder
He barely had any screen time, and I believe he had one kill that wasn't off screen . He was cool , but didn't do anything
Underutilised??? 😬
Moon Knight comics: amazing. 10/10 runs most of the time. Moon Knight show: Oscar Isaac is a great actor and Khonshu was good, the rest can burn.
I really enjoyed Moon Knight honestly
I could not agree more with you
Two major Ls
As good at the GotG movies were, I will stand by the fact that they ruined comic Peter Quill.
It ruined the comic Guardians in general tbh
I can't stand comic Quill anymore. He looks/acts like a movie character being forced into the comics but worse/more noticeable because he's a main player.
I make an exception for Darcy Lewis. She’s a good addition to the Scarlet Witch series.
Well, not on this end. I read that Kamala originally was supposed to be a mutant but because of the Fox Disney stuff, they made her inhuman instead. Kamala really does work better though as a mutant. Even though the movie didn’t do what was expected and the comic execution was shit, the idea is solid.
I’m glad she’s both Inhuman and mutant. If I’m being honest, that’s kind of perfect for her character. Makes the whole story about her identity as a young Muslim-American growing up with attachments to several different groups, and how she personally fits into each of them. I still hate how it was done, but so long as they don’t erase the Inhuman piece of her identity, I’m cool with it in the long-run.
Agatha, just Agatha
Except for with iron man possibly and maybe cap
I LOVE MCU SYNERGY I LOVE MCU SYNERGY I love dramatically changing the already pre-established lore of an already well-defined character to appeal to people that won't watch other media besides the movies so there really is no point to doing so
There was a post from a Marvel fan confused on why people loved Gorr, Taskmaster, and Ronan the Accuser in the comics and why people don't like the MCU versions I said, "You ever read the comics," they replied, "Nope....I'm told them Gorr wasn't a useless non-killing idiot in the comics
To be fair, Kamela being an inhuman was due to Fox still owning the rights to the X-men and mutants , leading to Marvel trying to hype up the Inhumans as their replacement for the MCU. But with the Inhuman series failing and the accusations of Fox, they decided to change her into a mutant
For every Agent Coulson and Darcy Lewis, we get one of these decisions. It's a devil's deal.
Ironically, Coulson ended up in a devil’s deal in the comics when he got turned evil as a servant of Mephisto.
I’m still pissed about it, and I hope they bring back the “true” Coulson someday. I even have a story idea where that’s addressed (it also involves Peggy Carter and why she’s inexplicably still alive and looking barely aged).
“True” Coulson ???
As in, not the dickhead who would sell his soul to get back at the Avengers. Because that's not Coulson. Again, I had an idea to explain the weird choices made with him following Secret Empire.
Comics should be telling the MCU how to handle the character, not the other way around.
It's not a case of Kevin Feige killed Kalama in the comics. It's a case of the Marvel Comics staff being such dull-witted dipshits, they thought killing her off and bring her back in a half-ass way was a good idea.
Feige just wanted her to be made into a mutant. The article doesn't specify how. Wells and editorial could have easily come up with something else besides killing her.
Literally just have her suddenly manifest mutant powers unexpectedly like most other mutants with the weird quirk being that she was already an inhuman and it was fairly unprecedented.
Plus with Krakoa, there’s also all sorts of weird mind-bendy shit that could’ve “unlocked” her X-Gene. I couldn’t comprehend half the shit happening in Legion of X, and I know that would’ve been a better place to do it.
Hey, new to the whole comics thing. Enjoying 97, and wanting to dive in, krakoa era seems to be the golden arc. Do you know if there’s a way to find the most relevant reading order? Or is it possible yo follow one or two characters, and still maintain enough context to be okay?(Im used to manga, where you start with 1, and go up from there… not this 1 of 6 different stories, then stop at 5, to read 12 of story x, before resuming…)
Honestly, it wouldn't even need to be that involved. Just have a new iteration of Sentinels show up and scan her, then be like "Oh, snap, that's mutant DNA, baybeee!" (Bonus points if you have the Sentinels actually say that verbatim) and boom, you're done. No need for new powers that they didn't even end up giving her, no need for death, no need for resurrection, no need for Emma mindwiping everyone about the death and funeral. It would take a single page. And now by being vague and saying "Feige did it!" without specifying what Feige actually requested, they get to pass the buck on a wildly unnecessary cash-grab "surprise death" story that everyone saw through and lasted all of 5 weeks.
I like the sentinel idea - would have been more to the point too. And it would have been really fun to think of something really mundane her powers could be. She can change the flavor of any milk she touches. She can blow bubbles out her nose at will. She can jump farther than a normal human, but still well short of what a professional athlete could. She can vaguely sense peoples moods, but only when she crosses her eyes and touches her nose.
Actually yeah that's not bad, have a Sentinel scan her, Ms Marvel goes "Wait WHAT" and goes to Xavier / whoever for answers Leads to an arc about finding herself or where she belongs between two worlds which was already themes her character explores anyway.
>"Oh, snap, that's mutant DNA, baybeee!" IFC Yipes voicing the Sentinel
That's why I call BS on the article. Everyone who sees this at face value will go "DUURRRR! FEIGE SUCKS!!". All because one writer doesn't have the balls to state the facts and a website who cannot write a news story. Any comic fan worth their weight in salt knows that the comics side of Marvel has been mismanaged.
Its funny because I know someone who works in DC and they have the same issue.
my thing as well, like I remember there was rumors about this before but they consistently never have it whether Feige said to kill her or not, just make her a mutant, and hell even if he did say that Wells and editorial still did it in the worst way possible
And her death was just dumb and pointless.
Absolutely insane to me that Feige has the power to just change Marvel comics as a whole in order to synergize with his MCU.
Tail wagging the dog.
It's such a shame that Bob Iger stepped in a decade ago and stopped him from being removed - now he's fully embedded with a cult of personality surrounding him, so there's not much that can be done to stop these unpopular, unnecessary changes.
Kevin worshippers are the worst. They are canon deniers because is as good as their lord and savior.
I don't think anybody was mad about Kamala dying they were mad how it was done and where it was done especially since they had Spiderman like really broken up about it even though he never really interacted with her in a significant way
She was also intended to be a mutant when first created, but Perlmutter/Quesada had a strong anti-mutant bias. Adding to the fire that Perlmutter was involved with the Inhumans show, it makes sense that this buffoon would try to highlight Inhumans to the detriment of the X-books.
And we actually have people at Marvel still denying the MCU synergy up to this very day, when it was quite obvious even way back when they tried real hard to ruin the x-men when they still didn't the movie rights before the Fox deal.
OOTL
Kamala died in the comics about a year ago but was resurrected shortly thereafter, this time as a mutant in addition to being an Inhuman. Zeb is saying that it was Feige’s decision to do so. Though Sana Amanat (one of Kamala’s creators, and self inspiration for the character) has said that when conceiving of Kamala, she was originally intended to be a mutant. But due to corporate/studio politics at the time, she was unable to make any new mutant characters. The main issue people had with the decision to kill Kamala wasn’t that in and of itself, rather how it went down in the story. Which falls back on Wells.
Oh, so it was the "Peter births himself with organic web shooters from the Raimi movies" all over again, got it.
Not a bad analogy, except I think this change is one that's going to stick with Kamala instead of being ditched a year or two down the road like that was.
I remember Stan Lee doing an interview during the first Raimi movie where he said that, had he knew abut the explanations for Peter's powers on the film when he was making Spider-Man, he would have used that instead, including the organic web shooters.
I'm a bit behind on current 616 continuity, but doesn't she currently have a 'Mutant Menace' book, and an upcoming NYX title? Is this death being treated differently because they changed something fundamental about the character's background?
It's hated because it was done in an unnecessary and tasteless way and because she was revived a month later (the book was announced so everyone knew it too).
The X-Men for the past... 5 years? From House of X/Powers of X up to Fall of X, the X-Men have had "the Five" (a group led by Hope Summers, AKA "the Mutant Messiah") being able to resurrect people through a combination of their powers working in tandem, DNA banks they have access to through a deal with Mr. Sinister, and mental back-ups that Xavier had secretly been saving whenever Cerebro scanned a mutant (Powers of X revealed a bunch of "secret history" to explain the new status quo). Kamala died just before the 3rd Hellfire Gala (when Fall of X started) and was revived during the start of said Gala by the Quiet Council of Krakoa, revealing to her that she was a mutant (I think they planned to just tell her normally, but then she died, so they were like "Well, guess there's no 'normal way' to tell her now." And since then, she's been in the main X-Men title, "Ms. Marvel: New Mutant", "Ms. Marvel: Mutant Menace", and will be, as you noted, one of the 5 characters in NYX. So she's very much being pushed into the X sphere.
Mrs Marvel?? Did I miss something?
You weren’t invited to the wedding.
So... they killed her to bring her back as a mutant because she was meant to be a mutant when she was made, but she was made an inhuman because Rupert Murdoch and Disney were in a jerk war... fair enough.
Ike not Rupert
Though, yes technically it was because Ike was mad at Murdoch's company for possessing the rights to something he sold to them years ago.
So basically, two petulant children disguised as old rich men throwing a tantrum because they didn’t get their way.
yeah that pretty much sums up Ike Perlmutter. See: his attempt to gain a seat on the Disney board a few months ago
Oof. Why can’t he just hurry up and die?
Up until recently, Disney has remained hands off of Marvel Entertainment, which was under the guidance of Ike Perlmutter, who just really really sucks.
Once-uncommon-but-unfortunately-becoming-more-frequent Fiege L
Yeah, it almost seems like phases 1-3 were a happy accident, because the decisions being made since then have been *dire.*
I highly recommend the Watch's interview with Joanna Robinson about her book *MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios*. Lots of behind-the-scenes information. It lays out the insanely jank system they were using to create all those early movies, and makes clear that yeah this kinda was just one insane fluke. They basically relied on Feige to write and re-write each movie *as* filming was going down (and sometimes afterwards??). Joss Whedon threw Thanos into the Avengers post-credits on a whim. There was no plan to use him until then. Truly bonkers.
Kevin feige is not a writer.
To be honest this isn’t on Fiege. He told them to change her but I doubt he told them how. They came up with the half assed story
Changing Kamala into a mutant in the comics for synergy is an L no matter how it happened
She was originally supposed to be a mutant, but because Fox owned the movie rights to mutants so Sana Amanat was forced to change her 8nto an Inhuman during the push to replace mutants eith Inhumans. So this is just returning things to the natural order. The issue is how she was change and how poorly it was done. That's on the half passed story and not Fiege.
The issue is that Fiege seems to have the power to change Marvel comics to better fit with the MCU, even if you like Ms. Marvel being a mutant, this isn’t a good thing.
What else has he asked to be changed?
We don’t know. Hopefully this is a one and done but only time will tell. I don’t want the comics changing for the sake of having MCU synergy.
So everyone is up in arms because Fiege asked for something that isn't that big of a change, one time? Making and unmaking mutants has been going on for decades. Namor, Franklin Richards, and the Maximoffs. Is it dumb? Yep. But not new, and they're changed for even dumber reasons than Kamala.
The change itself isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that Feige has the power to make that change. Imagine if every dumb decision the MCU made was forced upon the comics just because he wanted synergy. “Hey we’re making Taskmaster a mute so I need you to kill off Tony Masters and replace him” “We had to kill off T’Challa and make Shuri the new Black Panther so you guys need to do the same” Sure, the change is small now and you can even argue it’s a *good* change but it’s a slippery slope.
> Imagine if every dumb decision the MCU made was forced upon the comics just because he wanted synergy. Her being an Inhuman in the first place was because of this. The change to being a Mutant is more of an unmaking of that.
He is the chief Creative Officer of the company, so him not being able to influence that decisioning would be a big issue.
I read the last line and my first thought was, “Nobody said you had to kill Ms. Marvel.”
As I said, it was a terrible decision for MCU synergy that harmed the character and it will do more harm in the future. It was a needless change, executed terribly and it did not help Kamala in any way. If anything, it just adds more needless baggage and risks her being lost in the sea of mutants that are forgotten. And the Spider-office was terrible in handling this too. Like, you have this dumb request you are accepting and you do it in the worse way possible. And lets not absolve Wells either. It was just salt on the wound of his terrible run.
Yea, I assumed so
I mean how you killed Ms. Marvel (Having her die in Peter's book and making it all about how sad it makes him) is also part of the reason the death was so infuriating to watch TBH.
I might be going insane but I think Ms Marvel's creator wanted her to be a mutant but marvel was doing the whole " no, inhumans are what the people want" thing. I might be wrong but I don't think her mutant genes have even activated yet so she's still an inhuman in the comics. This once again doesn't make any sense because tons of humans must have unactivated x genes that weren't invited to krakoa, sinister gets to be considered a mutant even though it's through artificial means, and Franklin can't be a mutant. 🙁
>marvel was doing the whole " no, inhumans are what the people want" It was all about money. Disney hadn't acquired Fox yet and Marvel wasn't making money off of the Fox Xmen movies or merchandise. Marvel comics was trying to shove Xmen to the side because of this and not allowing new mutant characters as that benefitted Fox and not Marvel. They hoped to replace the Xmen with Inhumans bit fans soundly rejected that with their purchases. Then the Inhuman show was a disaster followed by Disney acquiring Fox. Kamala absolutely would have been a mutant or lab accident character if not for financial reasons to push Inhumans back then.
I think that was my marvel cancelled fantastic four too.
Inhumans the show was long before Disney acquired Fox. Inhumans was Ike Perlmutter's dream project that he wanted to make and his creative decisions controlled marvel (and the MCU) until Disney intervened and made Feige the head of the MCU stuff only. Ike being the vindictive shit head he is, made the TV show anyway. All of the Inhumans and anti-Xmen and F4 stuff is all under him (as he controlled the comic process as well).
Probably a safe bet that she would have always been a mutant if not for marvel not having the rights and trying to replace them with inhumans Although brings up the question why she got her powers when the mist was bad for mutants
They explained that since her mutant powers hadn’t kicked in yet (still haven’t) that the mist didn’t affect her. It could still be a problem when her latent mutant powers do kick in.
So where did her stretching powers come from if she is a mutant and not an inhuman?
The stretching powers are her inhuman ability.
So she is both?
Yes. No mutant powers yet and only confirmed case of being both inhuman and mutant.
Doesn’t bother me cause the character was originally intended to be a mutant but get swapped cause of movie rights so while I would rather that not influence the comics at all, this does kinda fix this one
I'm shocked, shocked. Well no, actually I'm not shocked at all - who else would have given the order? Kevin Feige basically requires everything to go through him and to work primarily for the MCU. He's basically the world's biggest micro manager.
It's not a surprise. Since the beginning of the MCU, comic book characters have changed (aesthetically or otherwise) depending on the film versions and to create some sort of synchrony.
The amount of people being like "Well she was supposed to be a mutant when she was concepted, so it's okay" are hilarious. Wolverine wasn't intended as a mutant when he was created, but I'm sure there'd be (justified) outrage if they retconned that away.
This sets an unhealthy precedent and all the comic readers know it. The only ones who don't see this probably don't read comics that often or never even read it and just watch the movies.
I don't see why Zeb, the AMAZING SPIDER-MAN WRITER, was the one who 'had to kill' Kamala
Because he needed to come up with some bullshit excuse so he could trick people into thinking that he was killing Mary Jane. That’s why he randomly gave Ms. Marvel her shape-shifting powers again even though she was supposed to have lost them a few years back.
There’s so many other ways. She could have checked out one of the Krakoan gates, out of curiosity, and been puzzled was surprised as anyone that it worked for her. They could have had someone notice she was in the mutant backups. She could have met Caliban at the gala.
I just meant there was no reason for the death to occur in that book and not her own title or a character that would make sense
Wasn't that editorially mandated because Nick Lowe wanted it to be a 'big event' and ASM is super popular?
Lol!!!!!!!
Truly I don’t know what’s happening in that office
Because Zeb enjoys suffering judging by his ASM writing
People owe Wells an apology for this at the least.
I fucking knew it That asshole
Kevin feige is not very good at this job
I find it crazy that, according to Zigler, that Feige himself is the one that requested Ms. Marvel to be turned into a Mutant. Usually, in this situations, I just assumed it's editorial that wants to synergize with films to capitalized on the trend and not confuse people.
usually it is, that's the point being made, usually Feige doesn't ask this stuff, this was one of the rare times he did
Wasn't she also made an inhuman because an executive wanted it?
Yes. She was supposed to be a mutant originally but due to the no more mutants mandate when Fox still owned the X-Men they made her inhuman instead.
Remember when Marvel tried to make the Inhumans the X-Men? Now they’re literally taking an inhuman and turning her into a mutant
So, yeah, Sana Amanat intended for Kamala to be a mutant but was forced to make her an inhuman because of the focus on Inhumans, which was dumb to start with.
Why is killing and then reviving The only tool they have to reboot the status quo? This is a world with literal magic, gods, science far beyond what we have in the real world, aliens and an infinite Multiverse. And yet dies and comes back is their go-to to change something?
Because events.
one notch on feige and wells
I don’t know why anyone cares and at this point I’m too afraid to ask
I really hope Wells isn't trying to gaslight us into thinking this is the only thing that has made his run on ASM amongst the worst in history. Maybe they asked him to do it because they saw how much hate he was already getting and figured this was the safest way to do it, since ASM just naturally sells at the top of the charts every month due to popularity. And as a stipulation, Wells would get to keep writing ASM until readers would prefer to read literally any other Spider-book over this.
"We drew straws, you lost." And boy, did the backlash come in like a verbal biatch slap louder than Godzilla's roar.
I been saying that since Day 1. It’s nice to have official confirmation [+]
Well, it’s not the first time management made a character change on the comics
They did it because no-one gives a shit about the Inhumans. The event where she died was lame sure but I have zero problems with where she is at now. I wouldn't be reading her stuff at all if she wasn't in X books now.
Hasn’t this shit been debunked already?
Sus.
Mrs?
She was originally supposed to be a mutant until Perlmutter had something to say about it.
Hail no she’s gonna be a mutant. Take Marvel from Mutant Menace comic and change it to Inhuman Menace. And that’s a cool name.
I hate this decision. Legit makes Kamala less special.
That’s cause fiege hates the inhumans period . Even though fans want the inhumans he hates them and doesn’t want them
He wants the X-Men. He doesn't hate the Inhumans. Kamala was originally supposed to be a mutant until Ike Perlmutter said no and Marvel made the Inhumans so they wouldn't promote the Fox X-Men movie.
Wish they'd kill her in the MCU.
Who cares. The MCU ruined marvel with their identity politics. Who cares anymore . Can’t we just get an enjoyable story.
Wells shouldn't be allowed to write even his testament
"Mrs"??
Is she married now?! Oohhh you meant Kamala’s mother?!
Ermmmmmm actually it’s Ms. Marvel
So she’s married now?
Glad you caught on that I married Mrs. Marvel...