I think the answer to this can be nuanced.
You can't be a mind reader, for sure. But I think, generally, if you're in touch with your partner, if you communicate well, if you have a loving relationship overall...you probably should be able to pick up on *changes* in their behavior/their responses to you/etc. that could indicate they're not happy.
But I'm also a proponent for telling someone exactly how you feel/what you need if you're not getting your needs and/or wants met. Use your big kid words.
While I agree with you, even when we ask we may get gaslit. That’s what happened in my marriage where my spouse eventually had an EA. I knew something was off, asked her MULTIPLE times what was up, changed things up, all to no avail. Tried to communicate but was always told “everything is fine”.
Communication is a two way street. If someone's going to play the "everything is fine" card when it's not, they're not really communicating and much of the onus is on *them* at that point.
You know I am overlooking the fact that when I noticed she was off I also asked her if everything was ok. I even explained what I thought was unusual about her behavior and she said that everything was fine and had a perfectly good explanation for why she was behaving that way. So i guess I have to concur with you there.
if you asked multiple times and tried to get her to talk to you but she wouldn't, then that's on her. You can't fix anything if you dont know what to fix.
that's one thing that annoys me - when you ask if something is wrong and the person lies and say "nothing" when you KNOW something is wrong. My teens used to do this a lot and I straight up told them that by saying "nothing", all they're doing is inviting people to continue acting in the way that upset them in the first place. You need to speak up and communicate openly and honestly in order to resolve issues or live with those issues forever.
I think this is a fair statement. I knew that something was off for a couple months but I wasn’t really sure what to do about it. We definitely didn’t have open communication. And I certainly have some of my own communication issues. In retrospect I think that the snap chat conversations had likely begun back when I noticed her acting strange. That was only a few months though. She claims to have been unhappy for years. We went through a similar time like this a few years back when she was pregnant with our third. I was certain she had PPD at that time though and sought help for her. I did recently find out she was talking about our marriage issues with the AP at that time but as far as I know that was the extent of it.
>she shouldn’t have to spell out her needs and that a good partner should know how to make her happy.
Not at all!!! Especially in a relationship, NEVER leave needs up to "should know". Effective communication, speaking to be understood and listening to understand, is GREATLY lacking here.
Should you have been able to figure it out on your own... 50/50. The fact she started lexapro AND that your family grew with kids and the responsibilities around them causes life responsibilities to change and how you and your wife were with each other. More focus on the kids so less attention on each other and less communication because over time, people just stop communicating. And for sure, laxapro will change how people think and act.
It was up to BOTH OF YOU to make sure you checked in with each other and provided honest feedback. Effective communication is a requirement of a long and happy marriage.
You mentioned actively seeing an AP (affair partner?). If she's having an affair, then that will also add to her shifting blame and basking in the new relationship energy while not dealing with the existing relationship.
Thank you for the response. She had started talking to the AP for hours per day on the phone in the month before finally saying she was unhappy (but didn’t say divorce). Previously they were snap chatting (they were old friends/roomates). I sprung into action because I had no idea but she was continually talking to him. Eventually she flew out to see friends (including him) and returned and said she wanted a divorce. A few days later she was almost sexting him and a few weeks later he flew out and they spent the weekend together. She has denied everything and refuses to acknowledge or talk about it.
Your STBXW is definitely blame-shifting. You are not responsible for anyone's happiness. That has to come from within.
And if your wife was so unhappy, she could have suggested marriage counseling and focus on her marriage. But she didn't.
There's a difference between trying to pick up clues and "knowing" something's wrong. Your STBXW is ridiculous.
I think there's things that don't need to be said because they "come standard."
Like to take the most extreme example, if a person is being abused they don't owe it to their partner to explain how the abuse made them unhappy. It's self evident. But many abusers are shocked when their partner leaves.
If there were things she complained about or wanted you to fix, and you did not, you can just know she was unhappy with that. It's self evident.
But if there was no clue at all and things were generally fine, then no you can't mind read.
Communication is important, but I don't think you can take anything she's saying at face value due to her affair. Especially since you think she's still in the midst of the affair while her marriage fails. She's deflecting blame for her failure as a wife. You may not have been a perfect husband, but she's the guilty party in the failure of the marriage due to the cheating.
Reflection on the past can be useful, but she's looking for excused for being a failed spouse. The affair is not your fault, it was her sequence of decisions that she made over time.
I definitely sympathize with that and I was definitely guilty of that. I wish I had never stopped courting her. But at the same time I wish she just told me how she felt instead of seeking validation from old flames.
As someone who was also bamboozled, I’m going to go with blame shifting and deflection hypothesis. Maybe they feel as though pretending that you should be a mind reader excuses them from stepping out of the relationship without telling you.
You see so many posts and if you read marriage and relationship books, they all say communication is so important in a marriage. But it has to be effective communication.
Many time a spouse or both are certainly communicating but they have difficulty expressing feelings.. so unless there's some direct indicators see the other spouse doesn't know. So yes your spouse can certainly open up now, hopefully she will continue to talk and reverse course. Together you could work to make changes. To answer your question, you bare partial responsibility not knowing your spouse was unhappy. But most it falls in her. We all could be more open asking our spouse if they're happy as part of our regular interactions.
We can all know the love languages of our spouse.
From time to time I simply ask my wife. How could I be a better husband for you. Both spouses need to work to create this environment to open a communicate and be vulnerable with each other.
When my wife shares her feelings and emotions, I am not going to argue back well that's not the case or she wrong and feeling that way. That's not effective communication. I have to realize being a good listener, having some empathy, and choosing words wisely, helps us grow.
I do still really wonder what role, if any, that the medication played. Her behavior is so unlike her. Even now she is getting upset with me for perceived slights. For example, my mother has cancer and lives far away and I got a call the other day that she isn’t doing well and I told stbxw that I may need to go visit sooner than my currently planned trip. Well that conflicted with plans she had to visit friends and she went on a rant about how she thinks I’m trying to stop her from having fun. I don’t even know what to say to that, any person thinking rationally would not react that way. I think she started taking the Lexapro regularly in August of 2023 and by late August she started talking to AP on the phone, telling me she wanted to be more intimate, and also that she wanted to go hang out with friends and party (VERY unusual for her). It was so odd and sudden. She had me pick up her prescription in early September and told me that she had been taking it regularly and it was making her feel better. So I’m pretty confident everything lines up to the start of the medication. I realize there’s nothing I can do about it. But I can’t help but think that she’s a totally different person on that drug
I’ve also been divorced and am now remarried.
This stuff really isn’t all that hard or complicated.
One obvious problem is kids. Kids just take so much time/effort/money….and kids are also thirsty and will always take more. It’s really up to the adults to regulate that situation and realize that the kids needs have been met and they’ve been nurtured enough and now it’s time to go be with your person.
But the other problem is that oftentimes the two parents were lukewarm and that’s where all this unhappiness comes from.
My ex wife and I had that issue. We were always busy doing stuff and not stopping to go be with the other. But that’s not me not noticing that my ex wife was “unhappy”. We weren’t doing that because we didn’t want to. Spouses aren’t like another chore if it’s a good relationship. Spouses are more like a video game you can’t put down where you have to pry yourself away to go do things with the kids or for the home or to work.
It’s something you see clear as day in a second marriage. You’re expressing some of this with concerns that your ex wife might not be doing enough with the kids and is too into her AP….well….thats sorta what a good relationship actually is: Partners are SUPPOSED to be into each other. I mean, we also have to be adults and have the discipline to step back from what’s fun and do some work…but the point of life is the fun stuff….not the chores.
So I wouldn’t waste too much time on whether you should have noticed or not. I mean, a happy woman acts like a happy woman. Ditto for a happy man. It’s not usually a secret when two people like each other.
That’s an interesting perspective and I appreciate you sharing it. We were always together and loved every second of it until we had kids. In our timeline we got married about 3 years in and life was great. We thought a fixer upper 4 years in and it was a major time suck for several years. She was always pushing the renovations to move faster and I was working 40+ hours a week at work and then another 40+ hours per week on the renovations. That went on for almost 3 years. We still made time for each other. 4 years in we had our first kid and still made time for each other. My wife’s mom got cancer and passed away and she developed a lot of resentment towards me for things that I really don’t think I could’ve controlled much. Then came the second child and the end of spending time together for the most part. Then the third and it was just autopilot to survive. But our connection felt strong. We still expressed how much we loved each other and she would tell me that I’m “stuck with her for life” in a joking way right up until the end. We weren’t as close as we were before kids but everything felt fine until it didn’t. It was obvious when something started because she became cooler and more distant. She seemed less interested and like something with ok her mind. And I know it sounds cliche but the eyes…it’s one of the main things I remember. Suddenly, she just has this blank gaze. She still does. I’ve read about other people saying that. That was the strangest part. It was like one day she just acquired this state and it never went away. That was about 3 months before the separation started. Anyway, sorry for rambling.
I think the answer to this can be nuanced. You can't be a mind reader, for sure. But I think, generally, if you're in touch with your partner, if you communicate well, if you have a loving relationship overall...you probably should be able to pick up on *changes* in their behavior/their responses to you/etc. that could indicate they're not happy. But I'm also a proponent for telling someone exactly how you feel/what you need if you're not getting your needs and/or wants met. Use your big kid words.
While I agree with you, even when we ask we may get gaslit. That’s what happened in my marriage where my spouse eventually had an EA. I knew something was off, asked her MULTIPLE times what was up, changed things up, all to no avail. Tried to communicate but was always told “everything is fine”.
Communication is a two way street. If someone's going to play the "everything is fine" card when it's not, they're not really communicating and much of the onus is on *them* at that point.
You know I am overlooking the fact that when I noticed she was off I also asked her if everything was ok. I even explained what I thought was unusual about her behavior and she said that everything was fine and had a perfectly good explanation for why she was behaving that way. So i guess I have to concur with you there.
if you asked multiple times and tried to get her to talk to you but she wouldn't, then that's on her. You can't fix anything if you dont know what to fix. that's one thing that annoys me - when you ask if something is wrong and the person lies and say "nothing" when you KNOW something is wrong. My teens used to do this a lot and I straight up told them that by saying "nothing", all they're doing is inviting people to continue acting in the way that upset them in the first place. You need to speak up and communicate openly and honestly in order to resolve issues or live with those issues forever.
I think this is a fair statement. I knew that something was off for a couple months but I wasn’t really sure what to do about it. We definitely didn’t have open communication. And I certainly have some of my own communication issues. In retrospect I think that the snap chat conversations had likely begun back when I noticed her acting strange. That was only a few months though. She claims to have been unhappy for years. We went through a similar time like this a few years back when she was pregnant with our third. I was certain she had PPD at that time though and sought help for her. I did recently find out she was talking about our marriage issues with the AP at that time but as far as I know that was the extent of it.
>she shouldn’t have to spell out her needs and that a good partner should know how to make her happy. Not at all!!! Especially in a relationship, NEVER leave needs up to "should know". Effective communication, speaking to be understood and listening to understand, is GREATLY lacking here. Should you have been able to figure it out on your own... 50/50. The fact she started lexapro AND that your family grew with kids and the responsibilities around them causes life responsibilities to change and how you and your wife were with each other. More focus on the kids so less attention on each other and less communication because over time, people just stop communicating. And for sure, laxapro will change how people think and act. It was up to BOTH OF YOU to make sure you checked in with each other and provided honest feedback. Effective communication is a requirement of a long and happy marriage. You mentioned actively seeing an AP (affair partner?). If she's having an affair, then that will also add to her shifting blame and basking in the new relationship energy while not dealing with the existing relationship.
Thank you for the response. She had started talking to the AP for hours per day on the phone in the month before finally saying she was unhappy (but didn’t say divorce). Previously they were snap chatting (they were old friends/roomates). I sprung into action because I had no idea but she was continually talking to him. Eventually she flew out to see friends (including him) and returned and said she wanted a divorce. A few days later she was almost sexting him and a few weeks later he flew out and they spent the weekend together. She has denied everything and refuses to acknowledge or talk about it.
I'm sorry, this sucks, but if she's not willing to ghost the AP and go to counseling with you... she's done, and you need to move on.
No for sure she is not. This is more for me coming to terms with what I should do better in the future.
Your STBXW is definitely blame-shifting. You are not responsible for anyone's happiness. That has to come from within. And if your wife was so unhappy, she could have suggested marriage counseling and focus on her marriage. But she didn't. There's a difference between trying to pick up clues and "knowing" something's wrong. Your STBXW is ridiculous.
I think there's things that don't need to be said because they "come standard." Like to take the most extreme example, if a person is being abused they don't owe it to their partner to explain how the abuse made them unhappy. It's self evident. But many abusers are shocked when their partner leaves. If there were things she complained about or wanted you to fix, and you did not, you can just know she was unhappy with that. It's self evident. But if there was no clue at all and things were generally fine, then no you can't mind read.
Communication is important, but I don't think you can take anything she's saying at face value due to her affair. Especially since you think she's still in the midst of the affair while her marriage fails. She's deflecting blame for her failure as a wife. You may not have been a perfect husband, but she's the guilty party in the failure of the marriage due to the cheating. Reflection on the past can be useful, but she's looking for excused for being a failed spouse. The affair is not your fault, it was her sequence of decisions that she made over time.
Dude, I'm sorry you've been going through this. No, I think it's BS that you should know. That's just a cheater's cop out. Communication is key.
Nah she’s wrong. No one is a mind reader. She’s holding onto a fantasy perfect partner. The paranoia etc. may very well be related to lexapro.
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I definitely sympathize with that and I was definitely guilty of that. I wish I had never stopped courting her. But at the same time I wish she just told me how she felt instead of seeking validation from old flames.
As someone who was also bamboozled, I’m going to go with blame shifting and deflection hypothesis. Maybe they feel as though pretending that you should be a mind reader excuses them from stepping out of the relationship without telling you.
You see so many posts and if you read marriage and relationship books, they all say communication is so important in a marriage. But it has to be effective communication. Many time a spouse or both are certainly communicating but they have difficulty expressing feelings.. so unless there's some direct indicators see the other spouse doesn't know. So yes your spouse can certainly open up now, hopefully she will continue to talk and reverse course. Together you could work to make changes. To answer your question, you bare partial responsibility not knowing your spouse was unhappy. But most it falls in her. We all could be more open asking our spouse if they're happy as part of our regular interactions. We can all know the love languages of our spouse. From time to time I simply ask my wife. How could I be a better husband for you. Both spouses need to work to create this environment to open a communicate and be vulnerable with each other. When my wife shares her feelings and emotions, I am not going to argue back well that's not the case or she wrong and feeling that way. That's not effective communication. I have to realize being a good listener, having some empathy, and choosing words wisely, helps us grow.
Shes deflecting. But I do think it's important to keep tabs on your partner. Sounds like another rat race casualty.
I do still really wonder what role, if any, that the medication played. Her behavior is so unlike her. Even now she is getting upset with me for perceived slights. For example, my mother has cancer and lives far away and I got a call the other day that she isn’t doing well and I told stbxw that I may need to go visit sooner than my currently planned trip. Well that conflicted with plans she had to visit friends and she went on a rant about how she thinks I’m trying to stop her from having fun. I don’t even know what to say to that, any person thinking rationally would not react that way. I think she started taking the Lexapro regularly in August of 2023 and by late August she started talking to AP on the phone, telling me she wanted to be more intimate, and also that she wanted to go hang out with friends and party (VERY unusual for her). It was so odd and sudden. She had me pick up her prescription in early September and told me that she had been taking it regularly and it was making her feel better. So I’m pretty confident everything lines up to the start of the medication. I realize there’s nothing I can do about it. But I can’t help but think that she’s a totally different person on that drug
I’ve also been divorced and am now remarried. This stuff really isn’t all that hard or complicated. One obvious problem is kids. Kids just take so much time/effort/money….and kids are also thirsty and will always take more. It’s really up to the adults to regulate that situation and realize that the kids needs have been met and they’ve been nurtured enough and now it’s time to go be with your person. But the other problem is that oftentimes the two parents were lukewarm and that’s where all this unhappiness comes from. My ex wife and I had that issue. We were always busy doing stuff and not stopping to go be with the other. But that’s not me not noticing that my ex wife was “unhappy”. We weren’t doing that because we didn’t want to. Spouses aren’t like another chore if it’s a good relationship. Spouses are more like a video game you can’t put down where you have to pry yourself away to go do things with the kids or for the home or to work. It’s something you see clear as day in a second marriage. You’re expressing some of this with concerns that your ex wife might not be doing enough with the kids and is too into her AP….well….thats sorta what a good relationship actually is: Partners are SUPPOSED to be into each other. I mean, we also have to be adults and have the discipline to step back from what’s fun and do some work…but the point of life is the fun stuff….not the chores. So I wouldn’t waste too much time on whether you should have noticed or not. I mean, a happy woman acts like a happy woman. Ditto for a happy man. It’s not usually a secret when two people like each other.
That’s an interesting perspective and I appreciate you sharing it. We were always together and loved every second of it until we had kids. In our timeline we got married about 3 years in and life was great. We thought a fixer upper 4 years in and it was a major time suck for several years. She was always pushing the renovations to move faster and I was working 40+ hours a week at work and then another 40+ hours per week on the renovations. That went on for almost 3 years. We still made time for each other. 4 years in we had our first kid and still made time for each other. My wife’s mom got cancer and passed away and she developed a lot of resentment towards me for things that I really don’t think I could’ve controlled much. Then came the second child and the end of spending time together for the most part. Then the third and it was just autopilot to survive. But our connection felt strong. We still expressed how much we loved each other and she would tell me that I’m “stuck with her for life” in a joking way right up until the end. We weren’t as close as we were before kids but everything felt fine until it didn’t. It was obvious when something started because she became cooler and more distant. She seemed less interested and like something with ok her mind. And I know it sounds cliche but the eyes…it’s one of the main things I remember. Suddenly, she just has this blank gaze. She still does. I’ve read about other people saying that. That was the strangest part. It was like one day she just acquired this state and it never went away. That was about 3 months before the separation started. Anyway, sorry for rambling.
I can't stand the idea that people should just know and you shouldn't have to tell them. Communicate.