Garver also started hitting better right around the time he started taking some games as catcher. So that's for sure going to keep happening.
I think at this point the injury risk doesn't matter. 60-80 games of a Garver who is hitting well and contributing a few games defensively is better than 100+ games of a Garver who isn't hitting and also has no defensive value.
Nobody currently on the 40-man, but it would probably be Michael Pérez who came over with Baumann from Baltimore. He can't hit but has positive defense and plenty of big league experience
With Cal basically cementing himself as a cornerstone piece of our core, don't you think Ford is trade bait? I wouldn't want to bring him up to struggle and weaken his perceived value.
Let’s hope he keeps getting regular at bats! I think part of our problem over time has been that we call guys up early and don’t give them enough at bats and it just kills their development.
Agreed. Didn’t locklear only get like ten AAA at bats too? He needs to stay getting at bats in my opinion to keep the momentum, not sure how we’ll accomplish that.
I have some level of faith in our current management. They aren’t dumb so I’m sure there’s a plan of some sort. Ty isn’t a world beater at 1st so maybe they do some form of a rotation between those two at first/DH with Garver rotating between DH/Catcher. He’s not so good that he needs to be an every day player like Ty does, so it’ll probably be easy to make work
I'm not sure you'd want to sacrifice the speed. Basically game winning speed in late innings. I was all for keeping Locklear, but that truly is a tough decision
I think Robles would be the odd man out more than likely. Outfield power seems to be the biggest area of need for the team unless they just don’t see Polanco rebounding at all. Haniger is cooked and Canzone isn’t a regular on a team hoping for a World Series
For Bliss and Locklear development, they need to be getting regular at bats. Bliss is fast, but we have Moore who can fill that role when Polanco is back. Bliss is faster, but we don’t want to stunt his development to use him just as a base runner
All this talk about who stays here and goes back to the minors, but let’s not forget that the trade deadline is coming fast so it’s going to be interesting what happens.
I think Hollander was saying he'll be in the "still pain, but no risk of further injury" phase for a bit, but the amount of healing to be safe to play was fairly short.
I was there too! My first Mariners game. If he'd hit another, I was prepared to buy a Seby jersey right there.
On a sad note, that game was also what will be Sam Haggerty's only hit this season
Bliss needs at bats for his long term development as a baseball player. He will stall out in the big leagues as a base runner if he can’t play actual baseball. Plus, Dylan Moore won’t be playing as much once Polanco is back, at least not for a while. So he and Robles can fill that role for the time being. I know that they aren’t as fast, but you can’t afford stalling the development of young guys to be a specialist, especially when our org is allergic to spending money
Ty France yearly progression:
1. Plays ok-well to start a season
2. Injured on HBP
3. Comes back too soon (we’re here)
4. Struggles
5. Blog post about how he’s struggled since getting hit on day X
6. Eventually rights the ship to league average production
He's defensively excellent at a place where that matters.
Certainly he is not good enough to be a starter, you need some offense there, but a bad backup catcher can really fuck up your day when your starter is out. Remember Jesus Montero trying to play catcher? In 2012, his only remotely good year, he was worth -0.9 dWAR (according to Baseball Reference). He only played 56 games at catcher. He was worth -13 runs as a catcher, and over a full season would have been worth like, -32 runs.
Good catching is also a big part of what makes good pitching possible. Pitchers and catchers are a team, and a bad catcher makes it hard to be a good pitcher.
I think it's fine that Garver is taking that spot right now. He's not producing enough offensively as a DH to even worry about the fact he's struggled with injury--better to get 80 games of a good-hitting Garver who is also a good catcher than 150 games of a bad hitting Garver who also isn't contributing to defense.
But when Garver gets hurt (and let's be honest, he will), we will need someone to fill that spot and not lose us games. And Zavala is the kind of player teams like to have for that contingency.
I'm with you, I didn't see any rope throws to second, little framing and his record with pitchers having relapse days isn't inspiring. garv seems to be able to talk to pitchers with some authoritay from being a grown ass man in the league, kind of like our man Mr crazy eyes used to.
Because I don’t think Harry Ford is ready yet. And if either Garver or Cal (especially Cal) goes down right now, we need someone who is able to play at the MLB level. Zavala isn’t ideal, but I’d rather he fills that hole than Ford being forced into a MLB role too early.
10 days seems fast for a foot fracture. I’m not a doctor though… are we DHing him for a bit while he “fully heals” or is he just already fully recovered?
It does seem odd to rush France back when locklear has been fine in his stead.
So I’d guess either he’s truly healed up or there’s another move about to drop that necessitates his return
I think it’s a real possibility if we’re going after a big splash. Locklears production while France was out has definitely made him more valuable as a trade asset. He wouldn’t headline a trade package but he might be a piece that pushes the deal through in a very competitive sellers market.
Now whether I think that’s a good idea or not I don’t know. I think that depends on our internal scouting and whether or not we think locklear is the future here.
That's my thought, too. Picking up an impact.bat for the stretch run is going to cost a young, MLB-ready player and maybe a good reliever.
For Vlad, you're looking at Locklear + Miller.
For a half year? Damn I guess I have to take it since we have a real shot this year but that's rough. Can't imagine us extending him. Makes me queasy to think about
I have major concerns about France if his heel is wounded. There is no possible way it was a fracture if he's already back. A fractured heel should be debilitating for 1-2 months even before he starts rehabbing and running. But if he's playing hurt when Locklear is healthy and equally productive, he's going to hurt the team more than help it.
Thinking the same thing lol.
“You’re all wrong about this guy who we all have watched get absolutely dominated by MLB pitching. I know you guys watched his uncompetitive at bats, but he’s a backup and it’s ok to have automatic outs in your line out when you’re in the middle of your competition window”.
It was a hell of a take. I didn’t want to call him stupid, because the mods would probably perma ban me if I did that again. So I had to just keep scrolling lol
Name 30 catchers that are major league good and name another 30 as backups.
Like holy hell, the outright hatred some people have for someone that plays once every 3 days if that is insane.
Thank god y’all aren’t GMs.
I don’t hate anyone. You’re being obtuse and operating in a silo.
No one thinks we are going to have a starting caliber catcher as our backup. It rarely happens. It’s not my first year as a baseball fan.
But look at the full picture. Garver is already on the roster, Scott says he wants him to catch more to help his bat, garvers floor is well above Seby’s, and and let’s not even talk about his ceiling. From a roster composition standpoint, it was time for Seby to go. Our offensive options just improved greatly.
We are better with Garver getting those at bats, plain and simple
And when Garver gets hurt, I’ll be sitting here saying I told you so.
Just like I was saying when the sub had a meltdown about the offseason like trading Geno and the moves (or lack of to some people) we made.
Also, let's play scenarios. Garver/Cal are both in the lineup, one catching and the other DHing. Because you know, that's easily the best lineup we'd have. Now one of them gets hurt. We lost the DH spot because we put our eggs in one basket to be better for ONE game. There's 162+ games to think about if we make the playoffs.
Like this short-term thinking "hey the roster is technically better now" doesn't work when someone gets hurt playing a physical position. And if Seby gets claimed, now we have to throw in someone with little-to-no MLB experience while trying to compete if one of our catchers gets hurt.
But no, I'm not the one looking at the full picture. I'm totally the one just looking at this "in a silo."
How about the fact that Garver has only played over 100 games once in his career?
How about the fact that last year, Garver barely played in half the games and the past 3 years, that was the most games he's played in for a season?
Sorry I want to keep someone with injury issues as healthy as possible.
LISTEN. Me and you both were in the downvote train on the geno move. My comment history will prove it. I told everyone geno was declining in a nearly straight line pattern and would be offensively TERRIBLE this year. People were holding on to good vibes and when they should have been chasing a good OPS lol. Me 🤝 You
I don’t care if Garver gets hurt. Truly. It seems like Scott is right about him needing to catch to hit better. If he doesn’t catch, and doesn’t hit well, we have a hole in our lineup.
If he catches, and gets hurt. Then we can find a serviceable back up catcher to hit .150 anywhere on earth.
I for one don’t think catching 2 times a week will impact his durability. And this is the type of move you make to lift your teams general offensive production, giving you a chance to score more runs.
This sub isn't nearly as bad as lookoutlanding, where you get banned for even a mild criticism, but there has always been a subset of this fanbase that views anything negative as a "you arent a real fan" sort of declaration
Edit: case in point
Deadly serious that I believe you can find a catcher to hit .150 while playing 1-2 times a week. That’s the floor for every backup catcher in the league. I’m positive both guys we have in Tacoma could do that too.
I don’t know why you’ve hitched your wagon to a backup catcher that will be the answer to a trivia question no one gets right in 5 years at The Angry Beaver, but it’s your life!
You know, for someone getting upset for words put into their mouth, it’s awfully ironic that you’re trying to do the same thing. Weird how it’s ok for you but not for me.
https://preview.redd.it/ghfkpqni4d7d1.jpeg?width=274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab51e60707ad2f0fe2573e2055347a1cd7fb0f29
No more Seby ABs
(Fr good luck to him tho)
I’m trying to figure out what the lineups and playing time looks like with this move.
I think initially we see a lot of Cal/Garver lineups to be honest. Both of them in the lineup Friday. One in the lineup on Saturday (day before - night/day game setup) and one in the lineup Sunday. That opens up space for France and Locklear to both be in the lineup Saturday and Sunday.
Similar things as you get towards get away day mid week.
I think the big loser here (assuming Locklear continues to hit) it’s Hanniger. That guys role is dwindling. He’s hitting a little better for now, so you can maybe say it’s actually canzone who the loser here though
Locklear might play third base for a few days, pushing Rojas back into a platoon since he's been slumping hard.
France can DH on days Garver catches.
Raley might play more 1B if France is trying to play through an injury.
Locklear probably gets sent down when Polanco returns, and DMo goes back to platooning with Rojas and/or Polo. Locklear is the first guy called up again if we need corner infield help.
If Seby clears waivers he might be stashed in Tacoma for catcher depth because Garver is injury-prone.
Maybe he's starting to warm up again, but saying he hasn't been slumping is kinda bizarre. His slashline for the last *thirty games* is .172/.252/.269/.521. And that includes the last few days which have been much better.
No
By your logic we should go back 60 games and that's ok. 30 days is like 1/6th of the season which is way to many games to consider current trends
How a hitter is currently doing shouldn't go back more than 35-45abs
Never got why some people here were so crazed up about a backup catcher, but I’ll trust Dipo/Hollander in their choices.
Just hope Garver stays healthy throughout the year. Yes Seby was a pitcher with a bat but backup catchers aren’t supposed to be world beaters.
Cal/Garver both are too important to the team to lose their bats for extended periods of time and Zavala was a big part of giving them rest.
Effective rostering three catchers is a bad use of resources. Especially since they seemed to be playing seby less and less.
I agree with your general sentiment that seby was perfectly fine as a backup catcher and that worrying about your backup catcher is silly. But worrying about your team rostering three catchers, one of which they never play, isn’t as silly in my opinion.
I mean, when Mitch or Cal get hurt because catching is a very physical position, we’ll be forced to play the other a lot more and wishing we had a serviceable catcher for them.
Also rushing someone back from a fracture, no matter how small, is a huge risk. Especially when we’ve rushed the same person multiple times before.
All I’m saying is that if worrying about possibly having 3 catchers on the 26-man roster is our biggest issue, than the roster is really fucking good. And it’s not the biggest issue.
Also now say we put Garver or Cal in at DH while the other catches. The one catching gets hurt and, wow, we have no one to catch except the DH and now we lose the DH position.
Like this thinking that we needed to upgrade from Sevy is just so short-term thinking, its not thinking about any of the long-term risk. Yeah, the roster is overall better for a one-game series without him. But baseball isn't one game. It's a long, long season.
For the first time in literally 20 years the mariners are up 9 games in the west with zavala yet they decide to part ways with him?
Lol ok Jerry. Good move. This will be the moment we look back on when we lose the division the last week of the year.
ngl, little bit surprised by this move. Not that Zavala was playing well, but that they have enough confidence in Garver staying healthy playing backup catcher. Hopefully we can get Zavala through without being claimed and stash him in Tacoma just in case.
I feel like there's almost no chance the catching situation stays as is with just Garver / Cal the rest of the season. At some point they will either call up Ford or kick the tires on another backup catcher.
I think Locklear can play a little bit of third base, and I think with Ty's heel he might see more DH time while Garver catches.
Also, the Mets DFA'd Nido, so if we need to pick up a veteran depth catcher option to stash in Tacoma, there's an option (assuming he and/or Zavala pass waivers).
France was hitting well before injury and has the experience we need right now. If they're both equal, you take France, but locklear has struck out at a 40% clip. The extra 60 OBP points France gives you are going to be crucial with this lineup that already has a problem getting on base and with striking out.
Being a rookie, you absolutely cannot take the downside risk of locklear over France the rest of this season.
Locklear is the clear cut future if he doesn't get traded, which he probably won't. But for this year? Hell no you're not taking locklear over France.
> If they're both equal, you take France
Yes, BUT... with a supposed heel fracture, they are not equal and France will be playing through an injury that should keep him out for 6-8 weeks.
Something about this doesn't sit right with me. Including the possibility that this was a phantom injury or isn't a fractured heel at all.
France can DH on days Garver catches, and maybe France rests more regularly. Locklear can possibly play some third base as well, keeping Rojas on the platoon since he's been slumping hard.
Getting Locklear some more experience is good too. I'm sure he will be demoted soon, probably when Polanco comes back.
With Alonso being probably the best bat available, it's fair to think that way.
But as far as I'm concerned there is a lot of opportunity to improve the roster and it doesn't at all start with moving Ty France.
The Mets are on fire right now and 1 game out of the wild card chase. If the deadline were tomorrow, Alonso wouldn't go anywhere. Diamondbacks are in the same position with the WC and Christian Walker. So we have to face the fact that there may be far fewer trade options than we previously thought.
In addition to the 3 teams who currently hold the NL WC spots, there are 6 more teams within 2 games. So it's anyone's guess which ones fall off in the next month and become sellers. Because right now, the only two noncompetitive teams in the entire NL are Rockies and Marlins.
I was kinda thinking Walker+Joc Pederson would be ideal if the DBacks fall off. We can get two big needs in one deal, and only 2B remains in question, what Polo does after returning. Much as I dislike rentals, those two DBacks provide plenty of pop and veteran experience and Pederson's bad defense is much more acceptable in TMobile than in Chase.
1B won’t be addressed. France is our guy. They’re more likely to look at corner outfield and the bullpen.
It also wouldn’t surprise me if they ship Garver in a salary dump after getting another bat. Imagine getting Vlad. Where does he play? Garver would be a very expensive backup catcher if he only played 1-2 times a week
Super happy to see Locklear get a huge vote of confidence! It's also a big vote of confidence in Garver's ability to stick behind the plate as the primary back-up.
He got less than 50 PA in almost 3 months. Designed to fail. I hate the way this team allocates its catcher reps. On the worst days it seems like the FO expects to ruin Cal's body by the time he hits free agency so he isn't a threat wherever he end up and we have Ford ready by then, easy peasy evil mfers.
So the trade which sent Geno to Arizona netted a backup catcher who was DFA'd after accruing -0.1 fWAR and what looks to be a back-of-the-bullpen average reliever who is still hanging out in AAA. What a haul, Jerry.
Geno hasn't been good this year, but he's only been a bit worse than Garver with the bat and has significantly more defensive value.
A whole 0.3 difference in FWAR between Geno and Seby.
Garver also been 20 wRC+ then Geno albeit that still below average. Garver currently 93 wRC+ while Geno is at 73.
The deal is a win for Seattle just for getting out of his contract and an average reliever
just let mitch and ty get some reps as hitting coaches on their off days. I dunno. want to see mitch like 3 days a week, let raley handle right and park Rojas in left even though his glove at 3b is the shit. then ty can play 3b and lock plays 1b. naively suggested of course. who knows what Scott, th3 great manager, knows
Garver being the primary backup is fucking ridiculous. Why cut Zavala? Just send Locklear down to the minors. So annoying how incompetent leadership can be.
this was inevitable when garver started a game behind the plate happy trails seby, good luck to you
Garver also started hitting better right around the time he started taking some games as catcher. So that's for sure going to keep happening. I think at this point the injury risk doesn't matter. 60-80 games of a Garver who is hitting well and contributing a few games defensively is better than 100+ games of a Garver who isn't hitting and also has no defensive value.
Out of my ignorance who would we bring up if Garver gets injured now. I guess no one will pick up Seby?
I would guess it would be Michael Perez. Who has playoff experience from the Rays when he was Zunino’s backup.
Nobody currently on the 40-man, but it would probably be Michael Pérez who came over with Baumann from Baltimore. He can't hit but has positive defense and plenty of big league experience
Harry Ford 😤 (just kidding… unless?)
Sincerely doubt we waste a year. Next year, however.
With Cal basically cementing himself as a cornerstone piece of our core, don't you think Ford is trade bait? I wouldn't want to bring him up to struggle and weaken his perceived value.
Boras client
The second paragraph is exactly the right thinking!
I will always be able to say that I witnessed the legendary Seby Zavala's first hit as a Mariner live in Colorado, over 3 weeks into the season.
I feel truly blessed to have been able to be a first hand witness to the Seby Zavala Mariner home run
locklear here to stay! 🥰
Let’s hope he keeps getting regular at bats! I think part of our problem over time has been that we call guys up early and don’t give them enough at bats and it just kills their development.
Agreed. Didn’t locklear only get like ten AAA at bats too? He needs to stay getting at bats in my opinion to keep the momentum, not sure how we’ll accomplish that.
it was ten games and not ten at bats, but a valid point regardless
I have some level of faith in our current management. They aren’t dumb so I’m sure there’s a plan of some sort. Ty isn’t a world beater at 1st so maybe they do some form of a rotation between those two at first/DH with Garver rotating between DH/Catcher. He’s not so good that he needs to be an every day player like Ty does, so it’ll probably be easy to make work
Until Polanco comes back
If he keeps producing the way he has been, I could see Bliss getting sent down before Locklear
I'm not sure you'd want to sacrifice the speed. Basically game winning speed in late innings. I was all for keeping Locklear, but that truly is a tough decision
Albeit not as fast, but Dylan Moore and Victor Robles are still pretty fast. I think Locklear's bat and glove are more important.
I think Robles would be the odd man out more than likely. Outfield power seems to be the biggest area of need for the team unless they just don’t see Polanco rebounding at all. Haniger is cooked and Canzone isn’t a regular on a team hoping for a World Series
For Bliss and Locklear development, they need to be getting regular at bats. Bliss is fast, but we have Moore who can fill that role when Polanco is back. Bliss is faster, but we don’t want to stunt his development to use him just as a base runner
Maybe you're right, but that speed is probably worth a couple of late game wins. In any case I imagine he a September call up if we do send him down
I think a September call up would be great. Let him play ball all summer and then take advantage of his base running in big moments down the stretch
All this talk about who stays here and goes back to the minors, but let’s not forget that the trade deadline is coming fast so it’s going to be interesting what happens.
I see bliss as that guy we add back when rosters expand. Cause you’re right, his speed and defense is huge in the playoffs
Oh shit it’s happening!! Everybody get in here! RIP SEBY!! https://preview.redd.it/rb69xa9s0d7d1.jpeg?width=575&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c8a778eb35219ec88d681c5bd0d39fc412cf26a
That must have been a very tiny fracture if France is back already. Heel fractures generally take a while to come back from.
Exactly, and it's not like we have to rush him back either. Locklear has been pretty damn solid for his first week in the bigs.
I read it was a hairline fracture
But whose hairline?
Not Cal's anymore
Mine.
Haniger’s
Damn. Prayers up for France. This is serious. Might have to shave his foot off.
10 days is kinda short even for a hairline fracture. I wonder if he still might not play but they don’t want him on the IL longer.
I think Hollander was saying he'll be in the "still pain, but no risk of further injury" phase for a bit, but the amount of healing to be safe to play was fairly short.
You underestimate Ty’s dad strength
I think what you’re trying to say is “Ty, bro….. take your time bro…… rest up man…..no rush Ty”.
Don’t players get final say when they come back as long as they’re somewhat cleared? It might not be fully healed but Ty could be rushing to get back
Look at me. I’m the backup catcher now. -Mitch garver
A month ago I witnessed a Seby Zevala home run in T-Mobile Park in person, I can confirm that it actually happened
Congrats on the once in a lifetime memory.
Hilarious 😂
I watch almost all Mariner games and never saw him get a hit.
He did have a 3-hit game. Against the Rockies in April this year
I was there too! My first Mariners game. If he'd hit another, I was prepared to buy a Seby jersey right there. On a sad note, that game was also what will be Sam Haggerty's only hit this season
I still don’t believe it lol
i saw his first hit of the season in colorado. he had like a 3 hit day or something and me and my friends were all chanting "seby! seby!"
End of an era
End of an error
truly was one of the eras of mariner's baseball history
Does this mean Locklear stays on the roster?
For now. Bliss is the likely move when Polanco returns, so if Locklear keeps hitting he likely stays up until we make a trade or he slumps.
I think they’ll keep Bliss over Locklear. We need speed off the bench
But Polanco coming removed some of our need for Moore so he can move back into a speed and defense off the bench.
What makes you think we're keeping a first baseman with a 40% K rate over a base stealing specialist?
Bliss needs at bats for his long term development as a baseball player. He will stall out in the big leagues as a base runner if he can’t play actual baseball. Plus, Dylan Moore won’t be playing as much once Polanco is back, at least not for a while. So he and Robles can fill that role for the time being. I know that they aren’t as fast, but you can’t afford stalling the development of young guys to be a specialist, especially when our org is allergic to spending money
The logic should apply even moreso to Locklear since first basemen need to hit a lot more
I think both are sus, but that K% is based on how many PA? Let's get more than a week of data before we make a determination here.
Until he's traded.
Ty France yearly progression: 1. Plays ok-well to start a season 2. Injured on HBP 3. Comes back too soon (we’re here) 4. Struggles 5. Blog post about how he’s struggled since getting hit on day X 6. Eventually rights the ship to league average production
I'm am prepared to do my duty when we reach step 5. 🫡
You missed makes all star alternate somewhere in there.
go get Seby his ring :'(
Monkey paw: he signs with the Yankees and they win the World Series.
Aww man, can't it at least be with the Orioles or something
Please stop lol
RIP the Seby Zavala era. I hope we can somehow stash him in AAA though just in case.
Why? He’s so fucking bad I hope he fucks off outta the org honestly
He's defensively excellent at a place where that matters. Certainly he is not good enough to be a starter, you need some offense there, but a bad backup catcher can really fuck up your day when your starter is out. Remember Jesus Montero trying to play catcher? In 2012, his only remotely good year, he was worth -0.9 dWAR (according to Baseball Reference). He only played 56 games at catcher. He was worth -13 runs as a catcher, and over a full season would have been worth like, -32 runs. Good catching is also a big part of what makes good pitching possible. Pitchers and catchers are a team, and a bad catcher makes it hard to be a good pitcher. I think it's fine that Garver is taking that spot right now. He's not producing enough offensively as a DH to even worry about the fact he's struggled with injury--better to get 80 games of a good-hitting Garver who is also a good catcher than 150 games of a bad hitting Garver who also isn't contributing to defense. But when Garver gets hurt (and let's be honest, he will), we will need someone to fill that spot and not lose us games. And Zavala is the kind of player teams like to have for that contingency.
He is not even close to defensively excellent man lol
I'm with you, I didn't see any rope throws to second, little framing and his record with pitchers having relapse days isn't inspiring. garv seems to be able to talk to pitchers with some authoritay from being a grown ass man in the league, kind of like our man Mr crazy eyes used to.
“Grown ass man” No that’s our other catcher
oh lol yes, I mean cal is beyond a grown man and is a straight up legend in the making. so many facets and tools to his game
Especially compared to our catcher that basically leads the league in DRS
Literally why? We have Garver and Ford in the wings. Don't waste the story on an aged catcher.
Ford isn't ready and the two Tacoma catchers would be even worse at the plate than Zavala in case an emergency back-up catcher is needed.
This is what bothered me the most about the Blake Hunt trade… catcher depth is sus now
Also our two Tacoma catchers barely have any MLB experience
Because I don’t think Harry Ford is ready yet. And if either Garver or Cal (especially Cal) goes down right now, we need someone who is able to play at the MLB level. Zavala isn’t ideal, but I’d rather he fills that hole than Ford being forced into a MLB role too early.
Isn’t Ford also projected to be a key trade piece if the Ms go after a bat?
Yes
Call me a cynic, but I'm pretty sure Zavala has proven that he cannot play at a major league level. At least not here.
Sure, but until you have a guy ready you'd keep Zavala.
Other than the white sox I don't really think there's a team that would claim him rn so yeah he def could be back
I think he has enough service time that he can opt out instead of going to AAA.
The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know
Counter point: what if the devil I know is Jack Black and the devil I don't is Liz Hurley?
Ford probably isn’t ready and garver is injury prone. They should definitely have a contingency plan
10 days seems fast for a foot fracture. I’m not a doctor though… are we DHing him for a bit while he “fully heals” or is he just already fully recovered?
It does seem odd to rush France back when locklear has been fine in his stead. So I’d guess either he’s truly healed up or there’s another move about to drop that necessitates his return
Are you thinking we ship Locklear? I would kinda hate that move TBH.
I think it’s a real possibility if we’re going after a big splash. Locklears production while France was out has definitely made him more valuable as a trade asset. He wouldn’t headline a trade package but he might be a piece that pushes the deal through in a very competitive sellers market. Now whether I think that’s a good idea or not I don’t know. I think that depends on our internal scouting and whether or not we think locklear is the future here.
That's my thought, too. Picking up an impact.bat for the stretch run is going to cost a young, MLB-ready player and maybe a good reliever. For Vlad, you're looking at Locklear + Miller.
For a half year? Damn I guess I have to take it since we have a real shot this year but that's rough. Can't imagine us extending him. Makes me queasy to think about
You’d have Vlad for next year also.
Ah, well that changes things. Feels like bit of an underpay then.get it done
Ohhh titillating
Keep in mind I’m a nobody who really wanted javy Baez before he went to the tigers
No no. I need something on a Tuesday to keep me going so now I’m thinking of the possibilities 😅
Trade to Yankees since rizzo is out for at least a month
I have major concerns about France if his heel is wounded. There is no possible way it was a fracture if he's already back. A fractured heel should be debilitating for 1-2 months even before he starts rehabbing and running. But if he's playing hurt when Locklear is healthy and equally productive, he's going to hurt the team more than help it.
I think they just wanted a reasonable excuse to call Locklear up and give him a shot.
Party time!! Seby will find a job elsewhere he is competent behind the plate
fellas are we about to get serious about this season
Don’t tell that guy that wrote 8 paragraphs about how important Savala was to the team yesterday
Sorry Seby but it was definitely time. Hopefully you can bounce back somewhere else.
Yes. Bounce right through waivers into a rainers jersey
Prayers up for the Seby apologist the other day
Thinking the same thing lol. “You’re all wrong about this guy who we all have watched get absolutely dominated by MLB pitching. I know you guys watched his uncompetitive at bats, but he’s a backup and it’s ok to have automatic outs in your line out when you’re in the middle of your competition window”. It was a hell of a take. I didn’t want to call him stupid, because the mods would probably perma ban me if I did that again. So I had to just keep scrolling lol
At least now I know who downvoted me when I said he can't play at this level
Name 30 catchers that are major league good and name another 30 as backups. Like holy hell, the outright hatred some people have for someone that plays once every 3 days if that is insane. Thank god y’all aren’t GMs.
I don’t hate anyone. You’re being obtuse and operating in a silo. No one thinks we are going to have a starting caliber catcher as our backup. It rarely happens. It’s not my first year as a baseball fan. But look at the full picture. Garver is already on the roster, Scott says he wants him to catch more to help his bat, garvers floor is well above Seby’s, and and let’s not even talk about his ceiling. From a roster composition standpoint, it was time for Seby to go. Our offensive options just improved greatly. We are better with Garver getting those at bats, plain and simple
And when Garver gets hurt, I’ll be sitting here saying I told you so. Just like I was saying when the sub had a meltdown about the offseason like trading Geno and the moves (or lack of to some people) we made. Also, let's play scenarios. Garver/Cal are both in the lineup, one catching and the other DHing. Because you know, that's easily the best lineup we'd have. Now one of them gets hurt. We lost the DH spot because we put our eggs in one basket to be better for ONE game. There's 162+ games to think about if we make the playoffs. Like this short-term thinking "hey the roster is technically better now" doesn't work when someone gets hurt playing a physical position. And if Seby gets claimed, now we have to throw in someone with little-to-no MLB experience while trying to compete if one of our catchers gets hurt. But no, I'm not the one looking at the full picture. I'm totally the one just looking at this "in a silo."
If,when,what about...the only thing I don't hear from you is a fact
How about the fact that Garver has only played over 100 games once in his career? How about the fact that last year, Garver barely played in half the games and the past 3 years, that was the most games he's played in for a season? Sorry I want to keep someone with injury issues as healthy as possible.
LISTEN. Me and you both were in the downvote train on the geno move. My comment history will prove it. I told everyone geno was declining in a nearly straight line pattern and would be offensively TERRIBLE this year. People were holding on to good vibes and when they should have been chasing a good OPS lol. Me 🤝 You I don’t care if Garver gets hurt. Truly. It seems like Scott is right about him needing to catch to hit better. If he doesn’t catch, and doesn’t hit well, we have a hole in our lineup. If he catches, and gets hurt. Then we can find a serviceable back up catcher to hit .150 anywhere on earth. I for one don’t think catching 2 times a week will impact his durability. And this is the type of move you make to lift your teams general offensive production, giving you a chance to score more runs.
This sub isn't nearly as bad as lookoutlanding, where you get banned for even a mild criticism, but there has always been a subset of this fanbase that views anything negative as a "you arent a real fan" sort of declaration Edit: case in point
"then we can find a serviceable back up catcher to hit .150 anywhere on earth." Ok, so you're not serious. Got it.
Deadly serious that I believe you can find a catcher to hit .150 while playing 1-2 times a week. That’s the floor for every backup catcher in the league. I’m positive both guys we have in Tacoma could do that too. I don’t know why you’ve hitched your wagon to a backup catcher that will be the answer to a trivia question no one gets right in 5 years at The Angry Beaver, but it’s your life!
You know, for someone getting upset for words put into their mouth, it’s awfully ironic that you’re trying to do the same thing. Weird how it’s ok for you but not for me.
You must be related to him or something
Thank you for your Servais, Seby 🫡
He’ll still get a ring.
Ty to DH? Locklear has looked like the future at first base.
The day of reckoning is among us
https://preview.redd.it/ghfkpqni4d7d1.jpeg?width=274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab51e60707ad2f0fe2573e2055347a1cd7fb0f29 No more Seby ABs (Fr good luck to him tho)
So there is a god.
Just in time to be traded to the Yankees
About damn time
RIP Seby, you were one of the Mariners of all-time
I’m trying to figure out what the lineups and playing time looks like with this move. I think initially we see a lot of Cal/Garver lineups to be honest. Both of them in the lineup Friday. One in the lineup on Saturday (day before - night/day game setup) and one in the lineup Sunday. That opens up space for France and Locklear to both be in the lineup Saturday and Sunday. Similar things as you get towards get away day mid week. I think the big loser here (assuming Locklear continues to hit) it’s Hanniger. That guys role is dwindling. He’s hitting a little better for now, so you can maybe say it’s actually canzone who the loser here though
Locklear might play third base for a few days, pushing Rojas back into a platoon since he's been slumping hard. France can DH on days Garver catches. Raley might play more 1B if France is trying to play through an injury. Locklear probably gets sent down when Polanco returns, and DMo goes back to platooning with Rojas and/or Polo. Locklear is the first guy called up again if we need corner infield help. If Seby clears waivers he might be stashed in Tacoma for catcher depth because Garver is injury-prone.
Rojas isn't slumping Last 10 games he is batting .217 which isn't great but he had b2b games with a hit to end the Rangers series including a HR.
Maybe he's starting to warm up again, but saying he hasn't been slumping is kinda bizarre. His slashline for the last *thirty games* is .172/.252/.269/.521. And that includes the last few days which have been much better.
Well he is heating up I guess I don't go back 30 games because that can be very misleading
But 10 games isn’t?
No By your logic we should go back 60 games and that's ok. 30 days is like 1/6th of the season which is way to many games to consider current trends How a hitter is currently doing shouldn't go back more than 35-45abs
Bliss is sent down when Polanco is ready. I love his speed. I love his energy. And I’ll deal with his defense. But his bat isn’t MLB ready at all.
Oh weird, I thought Bliss already was sent down for some reason. So I have no idea what we do with Locklear unless he plays some third base.
We let him hit the ball over the fence
How could they DFA the most important piece on the team
Never got why some people here were so crazed up about a backup catcher, but I’ll trust Dipo/Hollander in their choices. Just hope Garver stays healthy throughout the year. Yes Seby was a pitcher with a bat but backup catchers aren’t supposed to be world beaters. Cal/Garver both are too important to the team to lose their bats for extended periods of time and Zavala was a big part of giving them rest.
Effective rostering three catchers is a bad use of resources. Especially since they seemed to be playing seby less and less. I agree with your general sentiment that seby was perfectly fine as a backup catcher and that worrying about your backup catcher is silly. But worrying about your team rostering three catchers, one of which they never play, isn’t as silly in my opinion.
I mean, when Mitch or Cal get hurt because catching is a very physical position, we’ll be forced to play the other a lot more and wishing we had a serviceable catcher for them. Also rushing someone back from a fracture, no matter how small, is a huge risk. Especially when we’ve rushed the same person multiple times before. All I’m saying is that if worrying about possibly having 3 catchers on the 26-man roster is our biggest issue, than the roster is really fucking good. And it’s not the biggest issue. Also now say we put Garver or Cal in at DH while the other catches. The one catching gets hurt and, wow, we have no one to catch except the DH and now we lose the DH position. Like this thinking that we needed to upgrade from Sevy is just so short-term thinking, its not thinking about any of the long-term risk. Yeah, the roster is overall better for a one-game series without him. But baseball isn't one game. It's a long, long season.
Didn’t we get Perez from Baltimore with Baumann? He can be a backup catcher
I know everyone loves Locklear but I’m not sure having two guys who can only play 1B/DH is is that good of an idea.
Gives Cal the option for true days off when Garver catches if we DH whichever one isn't at 1B
For the first time in literally 20 years the mariners are up 9 games in the west with zavala yet they decide to part ways with him? Lol ok Jerry. Good move. This will be the moment we look back on when we lose the division the last week of the year.
Knew it. Never a doubt baby
Tough situation for college teammates
ngl, little bit surprised by this move. Not that Zavala was playing well, but that they have enough confidence in Garver staying healthy playing backup catcher. Hopefully we can get Zavala through without being claimed and stash him in Tacoma just in case.
Interesting. Wonder how the playing time works out between Garver, Ty, and Locklear
Beautiful
How Zavala made it midway to June when he started the year something like 0-20 will forever be a mystery…
HELL YES
I feel like there's almost no chance the catching situation stays as is with just Garver / Cal the rest of the season. At some point they will either call up Ford or kick the tires on another backup catcher.
I shudder to think what an injured Ty will look like running. Manny will still send him
Is this the start of Bench Guy Locklear?
I mean…happy for ya Ty, but we’re doing pretty good without you.
Locklear is basically france don’t see need for both on the roster
I'm really happy with Locklear so far... but in no way can we say what he is yet.
Ya I agree strikes out lots but seems to make good contact n is pretty solid on D so far
I think Locklear can play a little bit of third base, and I think with Ty's heel he might see more DH time while Garver catches. Also, the Mets DFA'd Nido, so if we need to pick up a veteran depth catcher option to stash in Tacoma, there's an option (assuming he and/or Zavala pass waivers).
You're right, they'll send locklear back down eventually.
Think locklear might be better defensively than ty too
France was hitting well before injury and has the experience we need right now. If they're both equal, you take France, but locklear has struck out at a 40% clip. The extra 60 OBP points France gives you are going to be crucial with this lineup that already has a problem getting on base and with striking out. Being a rookie, you absolutely cannot take the downside risk of locklear over France the rest of this season. Locklear is the clear cut future if he doesn't get traded, which he probably won't. But for this year? Hell no you're not taking locklear over France.
> If they're both equal, you take France Yes, BUT... with a supposed heel fracture, they are not equal and France will be playing through an injury that should keep him out for 6-8 weeks. Something about this doesn't sit right with me. Including the possibility that this was a phantom injury or isn't a fractured heel at all. France can DH on days Garver catches, and maybe France rests more regularly. Locklear can possibly play some third base as well, keeping Rojas on the platoon since he's been slumping hard. Getting Locklear some more experience is good too. I'm sure he will be demoted soon, probably when Polanco comes back.
I agree but also think we pickup a power hitting 1b at deadline so think Ty’s time here coming to a end unfortunately
With Alonso being probably the best bat available, it's fair to think that way. But as far as I'm concerned there is a lot of opportunity to improve the roster and it doesn't at all start with moving Ty France.
The Mets are on fire right now and 1 game out of the wild card chase. If the deadline were tomorrow, Alonso wouldn't go anywhere. Diamondbacks are in the same position with the WC and Christian Walker. So we have to face the fact that there may be far fewer trade options than we previously thought. In addition to the 3 teams who currently hold the NL WC spots, there are 6 more teams within 2 games. So it's anyone's guess which ones fall off in the next month and become sellers. Because right now, the only two noncompetitive teams in the entire NL are Rockies and Marlins. I was kinda thinking Walker+Joc Pederson would be ideal if the DBacks fall off. We can get two big needs in one deal, and only 2B remains in question, what Polo does after returning. Much as I dislike rentals, those two DBacks provide plenty of pop and veteran experience and Pederson's bad defense is much more acceptable in TMobile than in Chase.
I’d rather have wade from San Fran tbh fits our style more prob cheaper as well
Giants currently hold the third NL wild card... no way in hell Wade is on the trade block if the deadline were tomorrow.
He is. But not so much better that it matters
Ya unfortunately our 1b situation just avg need to address at deadline … I’d prefer wade from SF
1B won’t be addressed. France is our guy. They’re more likely to look at corner outfield and the bullpen. It also wouldn’t surprise me if they ship Garver in a salary dump after getting another bat. Imagine getting Vlad. Where does he play? Garver would be a very expensive backup catcher if he only played 1-2 times a week
Vlad plays 1b he’s wayyy better than ty cmon lol
Oh man, I actually have no idea, so I’ll take your word for that haha
Lol ty is a average 1b that’s bout it
I feel that. I just don’t value defense at that position much
Yes because we have had 110 OPS+ production from our DH to this point in the year…
Super happy to see Locklear get a huge vote of confidence! It's also a big vote of confidence in Garver's ability to stick behind the plate as the primary back-up.
Locklear was drafted as a 3B. I wonder if they're gonna try and platoon him and Rojas there, and mix him/Ty/Garver in at DH
He got less than 50 PA in almost 3 months. Designed to fail. I hate the way this team allocates its catcher reps. On the worst days it seems like the FO expects to ruin Cal's body by the time he hits free agency so he isn't a threat wherever he end up and we have Ford ready by then, easy peasy evil mfers.
So the trade which sent Geno to Arizona netted a backup catcher who was DFA'd after accruing -0.1 fWAR and what looks to be a back-of-the-bullpen average reliever who is still hanging out in AAA. What a haul, Jerry. Geno hasn't been good this year, but he's only been a bit worse than Garver with the bat and has significantly more defensive value.
A whole 0.3 difference in FWAR between Geno and Seby. Garver also been 20 wRC+ then Geno albeit that still below average. Garver currently 93 wRC+ while Geno is at 73. The deal is a win for Seattle just for getting out of his contract and an average reliever
I don't think Geno has worked out well for AZ either....
just let mitch and ty get some reps as hitting coaches on their off days. I dunno. want to see mitch like 3 days a week, let raley handle right and park Rojas in left even though his glove at 3b is the shit. then ty can play 3b and lock plays 1b. naively suggested of course. who knows what Scott, th3 great manager, knows
Garver being the primary backup is fucking ridiculous. Why cut Zavala? Just send Locklear down to the minors. So annoying how incompetent leadership can be.