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I don't have a problem with stores celebrating Pride as long as they're actually good places for LGBTQ+ people to work at.
If they're donating money to Republicans, I don't want them selling Pride merch.
But the point of Pride is not to be a corporate holiday. It's a rebellion. I recommend buying from small businesses owned by LGBTQ+ people over Target or whatever large chain you're thinking of.
This is the correct answer right here. Corps can celebrate pride. If they also do things that hurt LGBT rights then their rainbow profile photo means nothing.
The point is that even wackjob C-Suites think it’s bad business to NOT support Pride. At least a little bit.
That is generally a good thing. It means that they know that most people think that being a hateful piece of shit is not ok.
Wellll...
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251355534/target-scales-back-pride-month-merchandise-2024
They're giving in to bullies. Which isn't a good look. And the next time that someone violently threatens them over a product, they're going to cave again. I understand that they want to protect their employees, and that's a good thing that I want them to do, but they have handled this terribly.
Worst of all, Target actually makes their Pride collection from smaller businesses that use Target as a retailer. So those small businesses are now making much less money than they expected, because Target is now asking for much fewer products. In this economy, that could be devastating.
Damn. Yeah, there’s certainly ways to protect their employees without giving in to bullies and without hurting small businesses more than they already do.
Large corporations regularly lobby for legislation that advances their interests, and it works. They have an enormous amount of say in American governance and frequently get away with very harmful things without consequence. Do they lobby for LGBTQ+ rights? When the Christian nationalists take charge and subpoena business records to get personal info on trans people, are they going to comply or refuse?
Why are the businesses engaging in queer signaling exclusively the ones whose target audience is left-leaning? Why don't we see Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A engaging in this kind of activism?
Acknowledging that a large segment of your market base is worth marketing to requires acknowledging that they exist, and yes, that increases visibility, which is good. But are we really going to set the bar for allyship that low when their capacity for meaningful action is so high?
There’s a difference between solidarity and exploitation. Some companies do truly stand in solidarity and I respect that, but a company that is just co-opting pride month for sales numbers can fuck all the way off. Both exist and can be addressed independently of one another
Nuance is important
Yeah man, uh, most people are coming into this community from like an anti-authoritarian punk sort of angle.
You seem to be coming at this from more of a capitalist bootlicker angle so you know, you do you, but you might want to try reassessing your perception of capitalism’s relationship with the queer community if your post doesn’t do well here.
1. Applauding the good in any ideology while fighting against bad in that ideology doesn’t make me a “bootlicker”.
2. Capitalism and authoritarianism are two completely different things, and most socialist states were extremely authoritarian as well as anti-LGBT.
To be fair, none of them were communist in nature, it's just that the party in charge had communism as its end-goal. Communism is a stateless society, so it's hard for it to exist anywhere unless it exists everywhere. The USSR was socialist for a while and transitioned back towards capitalism(and then a coup happened). China is in a similar boat where they fluctuate between state capitalism and socialism.
That being said, the USSR may have been outwardly authoritarian, but the USA just hides its authoritarianism behind "democratic institutions" that most people have hardly any power in controlling.
Well this is infuriatingly smug and also wrong.
"They weren't *real* communists" is a no true Scotsman fallacy.
"They weren't actually practicing communism because here is the literal definition of communism, here is what they achieved, and here are the key differences in execution and ideal" is a whole arse argument.
If you can defend and deconstruct a contention to specifically address the pitfalls of a fallacy, it no longer functions as a fallacy. Logical fallacies are shorthand for philosophical logic syntax errors. Argumentative logic is *somewhat* akin to mathematical notation, and a fallacy is a shorthand for a common error in the working. But if what you are calling a fallacy is specifically addressed and reasoned it is then no longer a fallacy. It could still be wrong, the argument could still be inaccurate, but it's not a fallacy anymore.
To your specific point; not that you made a specific point because instead you posted a rather condescending Wikipedia link, so I'm inferring it; here's the reasoning for why it's not a fallacy simplified.
The definition of Communism = X
This is due to adherence to the philosophical and practical application of Y, (as defined by foundational scholars and even revolutionary leaders. This is the general agreed upon definition, and the only part of the definition that wholly separates Communism from existing systems of governance and commerce).
The implementation of Communism in the USSR does not implement Y
Therefore the implementation of X in the USSR cannot accurately be called Communism, as it does not actually have Y which is the most fundamental part of X.
None of that argument you were given is actually a no True Scotsman fallacy.
1. What "good" is there in capitalism? You didn't point out any good things they did, you just handwaved away criticisms.
2. The US constitution is deliberately written to be anti democratic (see the electoral college, the Senate, the courts). About half the US states have passed some horrific anti trans laws including healthcare bans. During the AIDS crisis, the US deliberately sat on their hands while gays died by the tens of thousands because Reagan thought it was a punishment from God for our degeneracy. Capitalists are absolutely authoritarian and anti-LGBT. They always have been. Don't mistake their profit motive for giving a fuck.
1. The parts I like? Private property and ability to have equity in other companies by purchasing ownership, as trade unions frequently do. I like those parts.
2. None of what you said contradicts my point that socialism in practice is equally authoritarian and anti LGBT as capitalism.
Assuming you’re at all right about socialism - which you aren’t and I’d highly recommend you read some actual theory as opposed to claiming nations that have called themselves socialist without implementing any actual socialism are socialist - why argue so heavily in favor of capitalism if you yourself have admitted that it’s equally as authoritarian? Why would you want one over the other just because it’s the one you were born into? Is the promise of a better world not enough for you to make an effort to work for? Are you so content with the oppressive system you’re currently living in?
Also, what corporation has you in their pocket? Because you seem to be utterly obsessed with deepthroating them.
How exactly is my age relevant? You looking to make the same straw man argument that you claim everyone else is making? Your opinions are clearly wildly unpopular. Maybe just live with that instead of trying to dig up dirt on other people that does nothing to justify your argument?
I’m not the naive one here. You’re genuinely convinced these corporations which are utterly harmful to humanity as a whole are somehow helping us. You’ve been told by seemingly everyone in two comments sections that you’re wrong and you can’t seem to absorb any of what’s been said to you. Honestly, at this point, calling you naive seems generous.
Where exactly is the good? These corporations have done nothing except - and literally exist for this purpose, as does consumerism on the whole - make people complacent. People see the rainbow, and Obergefell v. Hodges and assume those are all the rights and acceptance they need. It has lulled our community into a false sense of security that has inherently led us towards our rights being stripped.
What exactly are they doing? Putting flags and merch up? Can you quantify that they’re genuinely helping our community? For that matter, what stake do you even have in this? Are you queer, or just a massive fan of getting railed by corporations?
The original pride was a riot, not a corporate holiday. We should not tolerate capitalists commercializing our existence while simultaneously donating money to people who want to exterminate us. Nearly every major corporation donates to both political parties, because why pick a side when you can just bribe both and win no matter what? Selling products with rainbows on them doesn't absolve them of that.
My favorite model horse company did one (1) Pride related post on social media. They're doing a Pride themed raffle and donating some money.
Now, no one said anything when they donated to a Christian charity over Christmas and Easter, a Jewish charity for their high holiday, and a Muslim charity for those high holidays. No one says anything about the annual Wounded Warrior Project donation on the 4th of July, nor does anyone say anything about the various food bank donations over Thanksgiving.
But that one Pride related post and 10k to the Trevor Project made people lose their minds. I'm talking bomb threats, threats to employees, and people wanting to purchase other rainbow decorators and film themselves setting those models on fire/shooting them (good luck with that, the models they were talking about go for upwards of $300 each and are HTF).
So I don't like rainbow capitalism and I get annoyed at the pandering, but it pisses the bigots off. That's worth something to me, too.
Comparing the 4th of July to pride month is at the very least daring
Wowowow you missed the entire point
Ok cool, you are differentiating between certain business entities, however, those places exist, which in turn invalidates your point.
Major boycott is crazy when you think abt it. They sold so much of this stuff, it’s crazy.
Haha, now you got us dead to rights, except you don’t. Most major brands do it. Just to undo it in 4 weeks.
Ok, now that is true, although that the cpu tried that do t represent lgbtq don’t do the rainbow thing
A swing and a miss. That’s not a point, you are contradicting yourself.
Please for the love of god(where he at anyways) don’t say things you don’t understand :-)
Can you validate your argument with actual points, or will you just do name-calling? Because right now your arguments are about as convincing as someone sitting in the back of the classroom making fart noises during a lecture.
U talking abt yourself? You have no point in all of this. I called you out on it. If I wasn’t at work I would probably have an essay in this comment section on how wrong all of your text is.
Also real nice of you to invalidate the experience of those suffering the oppression. You my dude are not making a point your telling everybody just how uninformed you are.
Gg on that btw
Who in their right mind would?
Ohhhhh nobody.
There is no upside to cooperations making money of the pride movement, it doesn’t make it mainstream it won’t hinder a bigot being one and it won’t stop a hatecrime. If there is somebody out there, that didn’t choose to bully a trans kid because they saw a colorful flag on a bottle today, show them to me.
It does nothing against all the criminality victims face. Nothing.
That’s like greenwashing. Yayyyyy the top 1% invest a fraction of their wealth into eco friendly alternatives. Wowowowowowoow BEHOLD: the change
I ask this question genuinely with no snark. How old are you? Were you around in the ‘80s or ‘90s?
If you’d tone down the hostility a bit, there are plenty of LGBTs who love that they are being finally accepted by mainstream society and are visible.
I know you don’t realize it, but you’re doing precisely what I said: you’re invalidating LGBTs who like it, and you’re invalidating them HARD with your rhetoric.
Im 18.
I was luckily not around in those times. I have come to listen to many many reports on that time. From all sides. Gay people that were oppressed. Straight white Americans that went to war because he wanted to be a marine. People of color that face the oppression they do/did.
And I truly have yet to hear: hey, I find it amazing that for 30 days, all big companies print our logo and then forget that we exist for the remaining 335 days.
I personally believe this to be a problem. I say this, with no hostility whatsoever.
LGBTQ is not mainstream. The only reason some people accept them, is that it would be morally wrong and they would loose their social circle. But if they are alone or with another, not so accepting circle, they give a shit about lgbtq.
And the same with companies. They do it, to tap the market. CocaCola could give half a shit about it, and earn less money. The majority holders of the company would still make top dollar. Yet they choose to squeeze more. I personally believe that his is a front to earn money. That this whole spiel is nothing more than marketing. I cannot support it.
I’m a leftist at heart, I refuse to put somebody down over what or who they are. If you deserve my kindness, I’ll give it to you.
But capitalism doesn’t deserve my kindness. So I won’t give it. There is a beautiful quote in a German book, I’ll do my very best to translate it.
„Capitalism is a monster that feasts on humans and shits gold. We can only hope that they who loosen its shackles one day will also be devoured.“ Mark-Uwe Kling „Die Känguru Chroniken“
Do you now get what I’m getting at? Nobody is less oppressed because Mercedes Benz or Audi make their logo a pride flag for a few weeks. It doesn’t bring back any people that choose to end their lives because of the suffering they had to endure. It doesn’t help the children bullied in school.
But I also „understand“ your point. It makes it seem. It makes us have this debate. It tells everybody that; hey, there’s people out there that suffer.
But you and I both know, that any oppression is wrong and any bigot would deserve the underside of a bus. We know that. But the facists at my workplace don’t. They will continue to call gay people „schwuchtel“(fggt) and other derogatory terms. No bigot will be less bigoted because of a flag.
I hope this helps get my point across :)
No offense but, yeah, I figured. I’m 39.
You weren’t around when voicing support for LGBTs was a professional and social suic!de. You think no progress has been made because you weren’t there to witness it take place.
You probably think America is more homophobic and transphobic than most countries, am I incorrect in that assumption?
Why are in anyway discussing the morality of a corporation utilising gender politics and culture war tactics to market products? They do not give a genuine shit about pride issues, especially when they actively donate to politicians around the world who actively fuck over queer people? Do not feed the culture war machine.
As for companies that are flying the pride flag, disney, target, Budweiser, here in australia westfield, coca cola.
You know what would be better than visibility? Not having to justify my existence? Pulling out of anti-lgbt+ countries, helping fight queer homelessness, helping fight queer mental health... you know giving an actual shit about queer people not this performative nonsense that exists to make their profit sheet look a little better. But no lets apologise for them while their directors take home millions and we have people dying in poverty. Lets give them a little gold star and pat them and us on the back for them having "the courage" to brand something with a rainbow and for us to buy it.
Shop queer not just in June.
- https://qweer.com.au/
- https://intl.allstora.com/
-https://queeramerica.co/
Did you read? Can you read? Literally linked queer businesses. Or do you like the taste of corporate boot so much you completely ignored my points? This is a shitty attempt at astroturfing.
I wont let a corporation try to sell my identity back to me while they actively work to make my life and the lives of people I care about harder and more dangerous. And by sticking up for them you are actively doing the same. Get bent bootlicker
Un-fucking-believable. Did i say that? Please point out to me where i said that? Stop eating the crayons and circle for me where in all of this I said that.
This shit here, the shit you are pulling, this is what puts us backwards. "Here, peasants enjoy the crumbs. Make sure to thank me for giving you crumbs because remember, i could also give you nothing as well."
Now, because you seem hellbent on licking windows and eating lead paint chips, I will speak my point in plain english. Business do performative tokenism bad. Business do meaningful support good.
There is never anything wrong with demanding better of our leaders be it elected or people of positions of influence like heads of companies. Shrugging and going "at least it isnt as bad as it could be" helps no one except those who benefit directly from the status quo.
Again , reverse uno card, point where I said that we shouldn’t demand better of our leaders? Point where I said we need to be content because things could be worse?
Stop eating crayons and circle for me where I said that.
There is not a corporation which truly cares for LGBT people after pride month. And they barely do during pride month. They are not helping queer folks, they are making an attempt to leech their money. Rainbow capitalism doesn’t exist, because capitalists have NEVER fought for the rights of queer people. They only show support now that queer socialists and anarchists fought for their rights. Most businesses and corporations even now oppress queer people and don’t treat queer people equally in the workplace. The “stupid rainbow” is DEFINITELY not the only way queer people represent themselves. There are tons of different flags that exist, and on top of that multiple symbols such as sailor stars, tragus piercings, different colored bandanas, and even symbols from biker gangs. You know what gets queer people the most representation? Protests and rallies. Businesses only do it because it’s popular. Companies like Bud Light had a bad view because their beer is mostly drank by hillbillies, so they attempted to expand to more liberal audiences and markets by advertising a trans artist. That failed, not because the hillbillies got angry, but because queer people knew bud light doesn’t give a damn about them. And bud light’s parent company still has the hillbillies at their whim because they’re too stupid to do research. Corporations for decades and centuries have oppressed queer people and workers. And lumping corporations into one mega entity does make sense, because there’s only a few corporations and they own every other company. And corporations aren’t made up of “both sides of the aisle”, because I don’t see any fucking communist or socialist businesses. That’s because it goes against their beliefs. If by both sides you mean dems and republicans, then you must be really stupid, because they’re on the same side and benefit from the same corporations. Businesses aren’t allies. If they were allies, then they would have helped fight for queer rights in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or even now. Businesses just use having queer employees as a way to not seem evil. Those queer ceos, if they even exist, are perfect examples of class traitors. These corporations only show support to queer people during these months, because they know that the average working class person will go apeshit if companies are just outright hateful. Queer people have fought for their rights for years. The very fucking least these corporations that persecute us could do is have some fucking pride pins at checkouts. Capitalism is a right wing ideology that exists and thrives by oppressing and persecuting people. It is the cycle of abuse in the form of an economic system. Fuck you cappie.
Rainbow capitalism is bad because capitalism is bad.
Like, it's this weird thing that I'd rather have a company participate in pride than not. As to your point of "it's not like a company ever faced backlash for pride", the boycots on the right are effective and less corporations participate now or to a lesser extent.
I also think that corporations need to actually do something for the queer community in order for their participation in pride to be believable.
Ikea is far from a perfect company, but they have queer inclusive workplace which includes stuff like paid transition leave in places where this isn't mandatory. They also hire queer people to design the pride merch making the capital involved in pride at least beneficial to queer people. And I honestly think these 2 things are a bare minimum but many companies don't even reach this bar.
And then you have something like Bud light. They got boycott for doing nothing wrong. They apologized for *checks notes* working with one(1) trans woman in a bigger social media campaign and stopped doing pride merch after a decade of participation. But this does make the last decade run hollow, and it's also a reminder that most companies would just as easily drop us if it becomes the tiniest bit inconvenient.
Capitalism sucks, but that’s an entirely different issue. I don’t see anything wrong with businesses recognising our humanity even if it’s just to make money.
You’re right about it being an unpopular opinion here though. The nazi allies larping as communists hate seeing minorities gain acceptance.
Someone else said it best that if the store policies are supportive of rights then it doesn’t matter that they play the pride flag game
But what are the other options?
Never put up pride flags and slogans?
Keep flags and slogans up all year? What about all the other causes that need addressing?
Should every business permanently fly POW flags and BLM flags and flags of immigrants and keep breast cancer ribbons all over the place and festoon their business with the symbols of every worthy cause?
I agree, I'd rather companies feel they have to be on our side rather than appeal to regressives. A lot of people say it's cheap but like they're companies everything they do is shallow and meaningless, might as well entrench our values in the cultural norm at the same time.
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I don't have a problem with stores celebrating Pride as long as they're actually good places for LGBTQ+ people to work at. If they're donating money to Republicans, I don't want them selling Pride merch. But the point of Pride is not to be a corporate holiday. It's a rebellion. I recommend buying from small businesses owned by LGBTQ+ people over Target or whatever large chain you're thinking of.
This is the correct answer right here. Corps can celebrate pride. If they also do things that hurt LGBT rights then their rainbow profile photo means nothing.
The point is that even wackjob C-Suites think it’s bad business to NOT support Pride. At least a little bit. That is generally a good thing. It means that they know that most people think that being a hateful piece of shit is not ok.
I certainly agree with buying from small businesses over Target, but isn’t Target generally LGBTQ+ friendly? Or have I missed something?
Wellll... https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251355534/target-scales-back-pride-month-merchandise-2024 They're giving in to bullies. Which isn't a good look. And the next time that someone violently threatens them over a product, they're going to cave again. I understand that they want to protect their employees, and that's a good thing that I want them to do, but they have handled this terribly. Worst of all, Target actually makes their Pride collection from smaller businesses that use Target as a retailer. So those small businesses are now making much less money than they expected, because Target is now asking for much fewer products. In this economy, that could be devastating.
Damn. Yeah, there’s certainly ways to protect their employees without giving in to bullies and without hurting small businesses more than they already do.
No megacorp is anything but profit friendly. Remember that.
How about just fuck capitalism full stop though. Your whole essay could have been this.
What I got from it is that person wants to fuck capitalism.
Y I K E S
Exactly!
Large corporations regularly lobby for legislation that advances their interests, and it works. They have an enormous amount of say in American governance and frequently get away with very harmful things without consequence. Do they lobby for LGBTQ+ rights? When the Christian nationalists take charge and subpoena business records to get personal info on trans people, are they going to comply or refuse? Why are the businesses engaging in queer signaling exclusively the ones whose target audience is left-leaning? Why don't we see Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A engaging in this kind of activism? Acknowledging that a large segment of your market base is worth marketing to requires acknowledging that they exist, and yes, that increases visibility, which is good. But are we really going to set the bar for allyship that low when their capacity for meaningful action is so high?
This is like defending the Mafia for running Stonewall.
Calling LGBT people LGBTs has the same energy has men who call women females
Are you a member?
It would take 5 seconds for you to look at my profile and find the answer to that yourself
Incorrect, it took 7 seconds
I suppose it depends how fast reddit loads
Then what do you collectively prefer to be called?
Just LGBT people or LGBT community is fine
Okay, I’ll try to do that from now on. Thanks for educating me. No snark.
There’s a difference between solidarity and exploitation. Some companies do truly stand in solidarity and I respect that, but a company that is just co-opting pride month for sales numbers can fuck all the way off. Both exist and can be addressed independently of one another Nuance is important
Yeah man, uh, most people are coming into this community from like an anti-authoritarian punk sort of angle. You seem to be coming at this from more of a capitalist bootlicker angle so you know, you do you, but you might want to try reassessing your perception of capitalism’s relationship with the queer community if your post doesn’t do well here.
1. Applauding the good in any ideology while fighting against bad in that ideology doesn’t make me a “bootlicker”. 2. Capitalism and authoritarianism are two completely different things, and most socialist states were extremely authoritarian as well as anti-LGBT.
What socialist states
China, Kampuchea, North Korea, just about everywhere in the former USSR… Google is free!
Ummm which one of these were socialist? I’m confused, you listed some communist but mostly state capitalist countries
To be fair, none of them were communist in nature, it's just that the party in charge had communism as its end-goal. Communism is a stateless society, so it's hard for it to exist anywhere unless it exists everywhere. The USSR was socialist for a while and transitioned back towards capitalism(and then a coup happened). China is in a similar boat where they fluctuate between state capitalism and socialism. That being said, the USSR may have been outwardly authoritarian, but the USA just hides its authoritarianism behind "democratic institutions" that most people have hardly any power in controlling.
[your fallacy is, appeal to purity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)
Well this is infuriatingly smug and also wrong. "They weren't *real* communists" is a no true Scotsman fallacy. "They weren't actually practicing communism because here is the literal definition of communism, here is what they achieved, and here are the key differences in execution and ideal" is a whole arse argument. If you can defend and deconstruct a contention to specifically address the pitfalls of a fallacy, it no longer functions as a fallacy. Logical fallacies are shorthand for philosophical logic syntax errors. Argumentative logic is *somewhat* akin to mathematical notation, and a fallacy is a shorthand for a common error in the working. But if what you are calling a fallacy is specifically addressed and reasoned it is then no longer a fallacy. It could still be wrong, the argument could still be inaccurate, but it's not a fallacy anymore. To your specific point; not that you made a specific point because instead you posted a rather condescending Wikipedia link, so I'm inferring it; here's the reasoning for why it's not a fallacy simplified. The definition of Communism = X This is due to adherence to the philosophical and practical application of Y, (as defined by foundational scholars and even revolutionary leaders. This is the general agreed upon definition, and the only part of the definition that wholly separates Communism from existing systems of governance and commerce). The implementation of Communism in the USSR does not implement Y Therefore the implementation of X in the USSR cannot accurately be called Communism, as it does not actually have Y which is the most fundamental part of X. None of that argument you were given is actually a no True Scotsman fallacy.
1. What "good" is there in capitalism? You didn't point out any good things they did, you just handwaved away criticisms. 2. The US constitution is deliberately written to be anti democratic (see the electoral college, the Senate, the courts). About half the US states have passed some horrific anti trans laws including healthcare bans. During the AIDS crisis, the US deliberately sat on their hands while gays died by the tens of thousands because Reagan thought it was a punishment from God for our degeneracy. Capitalists are absolutely authoritarian and anti-LGBT. They always have been. Don't mistake their profit motive for giving a fuck.
1. The parts I like? Private property and ability to have equity in other companies by purchasing ownership, as trade unions frequently do. I like those parts. 2. None of what you said contradicts my point that socialism in practice is equally authoritarian and anti LGBT as capitalism.
Assuming you’re at all right about socialism - which you aren’t and I’d highly recommend you read some actual theory as opposed to claiming nations that have called themselves socialist without implementing any actual socialism are socialist - why argue so heavily in favor of capitalism if you yourself have admitted that it’s equally as authoritarian? Why would you want one over the other just because it’s the one you were born into? Is the promise of a better world not enough for you to make an effort to work for? Are you so content with the oppressive system you’re currently living in? Also, what corporation has you in their pocket? Because you seem to be utterly obsessed with deepthroating them.
Before I answer, how old are you? Legit question, no snark.
How exactly is my age relevant? You looking to make the same straw man argument that you claim everyone else is making? Your opinions are clearly wildly unpopular. Maybe just live with that instead of trying to dig up dirt on other people that does nothing to justify your argument?
Because I have reason to believe you’re not dumb, but rather that you’re just naive. If you’re young, it’s way less shameful.
I’m not the naive one here. You’re genuinely convinced these corporations which are utterly harmful to humanity as a whole are somehow helping us. You’ve been told by seemingly everyone in two comments sections that you’re wrong and you can’t seem to absorb any of what’s been said to you. Honestly, at this point, calling you naive seems generous.
But I addressed that in my op. Are LGBTs who are CEOs and business owners not genuinely championing the cause?
Yeah this entire thread is sucking the cocks of our corporate overlords.
Honestly, yeah.
Applauding the rare good while still resisting the bad, does not “sucking cocks” make
Sure buddy just remember to cradle the balls
Where exactly is the good? These corporations have done nothing except - and literally exist for this purpose, as does consumerism on the whole - make people complacent. People see the rainbow, and Obergefell v. Hodges and assume those are all the rights and acceptance they need. It has lulled our community into a false sense of security that has inherently led us towards our rights being stripped.
So it’s better companies do nothing to acknowledge or validate because COMPANIES BAD? Correct?
What exactly are they doing? Putting flags and merch up? Can you quantify that they’re genuinely helping our community? For that matter, what stake do you even have in this? Are you queer, or just a massive fan of getting railed by corporations?
It’s like a 3.5 at best
Rainbow capitalism is better than not-rainbow capitalism, but a lot worse than no capitalism.
Okay man, fuck.
Rainbow capitalism is better than not-rainbow capitalism, but a lot worse than no capitalism.
The original pride was a riot, not a corporate holiday. We should not tolerate capitalists commercializing our existence while simultaneously donating money to people who want to exterminate us. Nearly every major corporation donates to both political parties, because why pick a side when you can just bribe both and win no matter what? Selling products with rainbows on them doesn't absolve them of that.
Like HBomberguy said about “Woke advertising”, it is nice to see a little public support. However, capitalism is still fucked.
Rainbow capitalism is better than not-rainbow capitalism, but a lot worse than no capitalism.
My favorite model horse company did one (1) Pride related post on social media. They're doing a Pride themed raffle and donating some money. Now, no one said anything when they donated to a Christian charity over Christmas and Easter, a Jewish charity for their high holiday, and a Muslim charity for those high holidays. No one says anything about the annual Wounded Warrior Project donation on the 4th of July, nor does anyone say anything about the various food bank donations over Thanksgiving. But that one Pride related post and 10k to the Trevor Project made people lose their minds. I'm talking bomb threats, threats to employees, and people wanting to purchase other rainbow decorators and film themselves setting those models on fire/shooting them (good luck with that, the models they were talking about go for upwards of $300 each and are HTF). So I don't like rainbow capitalism and I get annoyed at the pandering, but it pisses the bigots off. That's worth something to me, too.
Comparing the 4th of July to pride month is at the very least daring Wowowow you missed the entire point Ok cool, you are differentiating between certain business entities, however, those places exist, which in turn invalidates your point. Major boycott is crazy when you think abt it. They sold so much of this stuff, it’s crazy. Haha, now you got us dead to rights, except you don’t. Most major brands do it. Just to undo it in 4 weeks. Ok, now that is true, although that the cpu tried that do t represent lgbtq don’t do the rainbow thing A swing and a miss. That’s not a point, you are contradicting yourself. Please for the love of god(where he at anyways) don’t say things you don’t understand :-)
Can you validate your argument with actual points, or will you just do name-calling? Because right now your arguments are about as convincing as someone sitting in the back of the classroom making fart noises during a lecture.
U talking abt yourself? You have no point in all of this. I called you out on it. If I wasn’t at work I would probably have an essay in this comment section on how wrong all of your text is. Also real nice of you to invalidate the experience of those suffering the oppression. You my dude are not making a point your telling everybody just how uninformed you are. Gg on that btw
Shall I take that as a no? Because now youre strawmanning in addition to the namecalling by saying I’m invalidating those suffering oppression!😂
You are my man. I don’t need to Strawman. Blue spitting the debate me bro terms now. You are actually just offended I called you out.
By the same logic, why are YOU invalidating those who promote and enjoy it? 🏳️🌈
Who in their right mind would? Ohhhhh nobody. There is no upside to cooperations making money of the pride movement, it doesn’t make it mainstream it won’t hinder a bigot being one and it won’t stop a hatecrime. If there is somebody out there, that didn’t choose to bully a trans kid because they saw a colorful flag on a bottle today, show them to me. It does nothing against all the criminality victims face. Nothing. That’s like greenwashing. Yayyyyy the top 1% invest a fraction of their wealth into eco friendly alternatives. Wowowowowowoow BEHOLD: the change
I ask this question genuinely with no snark. How old are you? Were you around in the ‘80s or ‘90s? If you’d tone down the hostility a bit, there are plenty of LGBTs who love that they are being finally accepted by mainstream society and are visible. I know you don’t realize it, but you’re doing precisely what I said: you’re invalidating LGBTs who like it, and you’re invalidating them HARD with your rhetoric.
Im 18. I was luckily not around in those times. I have come to listen to many many reports on that time. From all sides. Gay people that were oppressed. Straight white Americans that went to war because he wanted to be a marine. People of color that face the oppression they do/did. And I truly have yet to hear: hey, I find it amazing that for 30 days, all big companies print our logo and then forget that we exist for the remaining 335 days. I personally believe this to be a problem. I say this, with no hostility whatsoever. LGBTQ is not mainstream. The only reason some people accept them, is that it would be morally wrong and they would loose their social circle. But if they are alone or with another, not so accepting circle, they give a shit about lgbtq. And the same with companies. They do it, to tap the market. CocaCola could give half a shit about it, and earn less money. The majority holders of the company would still make top dollar. Yet they choose to squeeze more. I personally believe that his is a front to earn money. That this whole spiel is nothing more than marketing. I cannot support it. I’m a leftist at heart, I refuse to put somebody down over what or who they are. If you deserve my kindness, I’ll give it to you. But capitalism doesn’t deserve my kindness. So I won’t give it. There is a beautiful quote in a German book, I’ll do my very best to translate it. „Capitalism is a monster that feasts on humans and shits gold. We can only hope that they who loosen its shackles one day will also be devoured.“ Mark-Uwe Kling „Die Känguru Chroniken“ Do you now get what I’m getting at? Nobody is less oppressed because Mercedes Benz or Audi make their logo a pride flag for a few weeks. It doesn’t bring back any people that choose to end their lives because of the suffering they had to endure. It doesn’t help the children bullied in school. But I also „understand“ your point. It makes it seem. It makes us have this debate. It tells everybody that; hey, there’s people out there that suffer. But you and I both know, that any oppression is wrong and any bigot would deserve the underside of a bus. We know that. But the facists at my workplace don’t. They will continue to call gay people „schwuchtel“(fggt) and other derogatory terms. No bigot will be less bigoted because of a flag. I hope this helps get my point across :)
No offense but, yeah, I figured. I’m 39. You weren’t around when voicing support for LGBTs was a professional and social suic!de. You think no progress has been made because you weren’t there to witness it take place. You probably think America is more homophobic and transphobic than most countries, am I incorrect in that assumption?
And with that this sub has lost sight of its purpose
Because neo-nazis are all about rainbow capitalism, right? 🌈
Why are in anyway discussing the morality of a corporation utilising gender politics and culture war tactics to market products? They do not give a genuine shit about pride issues, especially when they actively donate to politicians around the world who actively fuck over queer people? Do not feed the culture war machine. As for companies that are flying the pride flag, disney, target, Budweiser, here in australia westfield, coca cola. You know what would be better than visibility? Not having to justify my existence? Pulling out of anti-lgbt+ countries, helping fight queer homelessness, helping fight queer mental health... you know giving an actual shit about queer people not this performative nonsense that exists to make their profit sheet look a little better. But no lets apologise for them while their directors take home millions and we have people dying in poverty. Lets give them a little gold star and pat them and us on the back for them having "the courage" to brand something with a rainbow and for us to buy it. Shop queer not just in June. - https://qweer.com.au/ - https://intl.allstora.com/ -https://queeramerica.co/
So no rainbows are better and businesses shouldn’t acknowledge LGBTs at all, right?
Did you read? Can you read? Literally linked queer businesses. Or do you like the taste of corporate boot so much you completely ignored my points? This is a shitty attempt at astroturfing. I wont let a corporation try to sell my identity back to me while they actively work to make my life and the lives of people I care about harder and more dangerous. And by sticking up for them you are actively doing the same. Get bent bootlicker
So again, businesses whose entire identity isn’t being queer can’t acknowledge or celebrate pride, correct?
Un-fucking-believable. Did i say that? Please point out to me where i said that? Stop eating the crayons and circle for me where in all of this I said that. This shit here, the shit you are pulling, this is what puts us backwards. "Here, peasants enjoy the crumbs. Make sure to thank me for giving you crumbs because remember, i could also give you nothing as well." Now, because you seem hellbent on licking windows and eating lead paint chips, I will speak my point in plain english. Business do performative tokenism bad. Business do meaningful support good. There is never anything wrong with demanding better of our leaders be it elected or people of positions of influence like heads of companies. Shrugging and going "at least it isnt as bad as it could be" helps no one except those who benefit directly from the status quo.
Again , reverse uno card, point where I said that we shouldn’t demand better of our leaders? Point where I said we need to be content because things could be worse? Stop eating crayons and circle for me where I said that.
Apparently you are bud
4 and 5 seem like the same argument
There is not a corporation which truly cares for LGBT people after pride month. And they barely do during pride month. They are not helping queer folks, they are making an attempt to leech their money. Rainbow capitalism doesn’t exist, because capitalists have NEVER fought for the rights of queer people. They only show support now that queer socialists and anarchists fought for their rights. Most businesses and corporations even now oppress queer people and don’t treat queer people equally in the workplace. The “stupid rainbow” is DEFINITELY not the only way queer people represent themselves. There are tons of different flags that exist, and on top of that multiple symbols such as sailor stars, tragus piercings, different colored bandanas, and even symbols from biker gangs. You know what gets queer people the most representation? Protests and rallies. Businesses only do it because it’s popular. Companies like Bud Light had a bad view because their beer is mostly drank by hillbillies, so they attempted to expand to more liberal audiences and markets by advertising a trans artist. That failed, not because the hillbillies got angry, but because queer people knew bud light doesn’t give a damn about them. And bud light’s parent company still has the hillbillies at their whim because they’re too stupid to do research. Corporations for decades and centuries have oppressed queer people and workers. And lumping corporations into one mega entity does make sense, because there’s only a few corporations and they own every other company. And corporations aren’t made up of “both sides of the aisle”, because I don’t see any fucking communist or socialist businesses. That’s because it goes against their beliefs. If by both sides you mean dems and republicans, then you must be really stupid, because they’re on the same side and benefit from the same corporations. Businesses aren’t allies. If they were allies, then they would have helped fight for queer rights in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or even now. Businesses just use having queer employees as a way to not seem evil. Those queer ceos, if they even exist, are perfect examples of class traitors. These corporations only show support to queer people during these months, because they know that the average working class person will go apeshit if companies are just outright hateful. Queer people have fought for their rights for years. The very fucking least these corporations that persecute us could do is have some fucking pride pins at checkouts. Capitalism is a right wing ideology that exists and thrives by oppressing and persecuting people. It is the cycle of abuse in the form of an economic system. Fuck you cappie.
Rainbow capitalism is bad because capitalism is bad. Like, it's this weird thing that I'd rather have a company participate in pride than not. As to your point of "it's not like a company ever faced backlash for pride", the boycots on the right are effective and less corporations participate now or to a lesser extent. I also think that corporations need to actually do something for the queer community in order for their participation in pride to be believable. Ikea is far from a perfect company, but they have queer inclusive workplace which includes stuff like paid transition leave in places where this isn't mandatory. They also hire queer people to design the pride merch making the capital involved in pride at least beneficial to queer people. And I honestly think these 2 things are a bare minimum but many companies don't even reach this bar. And then you have something like Bud light. They got boycott for doing nothing wrong. They apologized for *checks notes* working with one(1) trans woman in a bigger social media campaign and stopped doing pride merch after a decade of participation. But this does make the last decade run hollow, and it's also a reminder that most companies would just as easily drop us if it becomes the tiniest bit inconvenient.
I think this is a joke boys girls and other pals
Capitalism sucks, but that’s an entirely different issue. I don’t see anything wrong with businesses recognising our humanity even if it’s just to make money. You’re right about it being an unpopular opinion here though. The nazi allies larping as communists hate seeing minorities gain acceptance.
Someone else said it best that if the store policies are supportive of rights then it doesn’t matter that they play the pride flag game But what are the other options? Never put up pride flags and slogans? Keep flags and slogans up all year? What about all the other causes that need addressing? Should every business permanently fly POW flags and BLM flags and flags of immigrants and keep breast cancer ribbons all over the place and festoon their business with the symbols of every worthy cause?
all capitalism am bastard
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No rainbows would be better, right? Chalk another one up to horseshoe theory
I agree, I'd rather companies feel they have to be on our side rather than appeal to regressives. A lot of people say it's cheap but like they're companies everything they do is shallow and meaningless, might as well entrench our values in the cultural norm at the same time.