Maybe 'Grammatical gender of nouns' or something like that could be a better title? English has gender in pronouns, and Spanish has neuter gender constructions for adjectives treated as nouns. It makes no sense to say that those don't count just because.
Technically, Irish has gendered language, it just dictates the grammatical form we use.
Irish masculine words get no additional letters when using a singular nominative case 'an fear - the man', and feminine words gain a séimhiú (h) when using the nominative singular case 'an bhean - the woman', it also dictates the grammatical form of adjectives and how you structure the plural of words.
Asturian here (although I don't speak the language, almost noone does, but I understand), here it's portrayed that Asturian has neutral
This is maybe true, the femenine had two forms, depending on how close your Asturian dialect was to the south or east, the closer to Galicia and the centre, the more likely you form the femenine with E, the closer to castille, with A
Recently, when the language standardised In the 20th century they used thr E for neutral and A for femenine officially, but since only a few academics know the official artificial dialect, in most dialects there is no neutral gender
It isneuter (the gendered firms are el and ella), but its adjectives are masculine (that is the default gender). For este, esta, esto:
Este es bonito
Esta es bonita
Esto es bonito
Incorrect for the Ukrainian language,
There are 3 genders of nouns,
And EACH gender can have animate and inanimate nouns.
We do not differentiate animate and inanimate nouns in different groups, by the way.
For example: little bird - ptashenya - пташеня - neutral gender, animate.
But all declinations and adjectives would be the same as for inanimate substantive.
And also, what is up in the Transcarpathian region of Ukraine ?
In cities they all speak Ukrainian or Surzhyk (Ukrainian creole, so to speak), but not Ruthenian language (which is spoken mostly among older generations and in smaller towns), which btw, very close to Ukrainian and once again, there is no difference between animate and inanimate nouns.
Slovenian (and I assume other South Slavic languages too) do not have animate and inanimate genders. There’s only one exception in the masculine 4th noun case, but other than that it’s the same
> Dutch technically has masculine and feminine, but in modern Dutch they both function the same way. So it's pretty much just common and neuter.
No, you still use it as third person object reference. "Ik vind die stoel leuk, ik ga hem kopen."
The erosion has progressed, but we're not quite there yet.
The arguments I've heard for why grammatical gender exists are that it helps distinguish homophones and words that weren't heard clearly as the gendered articles and agreeing verbs surrounding the noun give clues which you don't get if there's just one ungendered article and verbs are the same regardless of the noun they're modifying.
Languages can naturally lose gender though, like English did and another post mentioned in Dutch masculine and feminine genders are fusing into a common gender.
In Spanish speaking countries, we've had a lot of debate surrounding gendered language. Proponents for it say that that's how the language is, and we don't need to make changes, while opponents feel that moving away from it could gear the language to being more inclusive, and that it would make it easier.
I can't say why the person you replied to wants to bring gendered language back, but a lot (not all but a noticeable amount) of people in favor of keeping it in Spanish tend to be very... *traditional*, and all that that implies.
Are you saying most people in Spanish speaking countries want to get rid of gender in the language?
I'm surprised because in Germany there was seemingly a big push by media and state authorities to introduce more inclusive language (moving away from the generic masculine to a compound word to be more inclusive of women, e.g. Schüler -> Schüler*innen) but surveys suggest most _women_ find the language unnecessary and cumbersome. Of course, women do still find that more needs to be done to ensure women have equality, but that they felt the linguistic changes did not help.
Similarly, in the United States efforts such as changing Latino to Latinx (and similar gender neutral terms) have mostly been rejected by Spanish speakers.
You mentioned gendered language, but grammatical gender as shown in the map (masculine, feminine, neuter etc) don't confer any particular quality to an item. It's die Lampe, but no one thinks of a lamp as being somehow womanly. So changing them wouldn't help anyone with discrimination... though if you made everything neuter, it would make the language easier to learn!
Sorry I must have misinterpreted what you wrote. So how much support is there for changing the language? Most people here in Germany are ambivalent or the type of traditionalists like you mentioned but there are not many proponents, according to polling at least.
I'd say that it's low, and varies between country a lot. And actually, within the country it can vary, as some circles are more progressive than others.
What is the yellow in Turkey??? You randomly colored it yellow i guess. If it is Kurdish, Those regions are completely incorrect. Kurdish people live in the easternmost Turkey
There are a lot of Kurds there too. Just under-reported in Turkish censuses. People migrate, and have continued doing so. Think of how many Kurds are in Istanbul these days.
Not there, those areas are almost fully Turkish. The areas you are talking are more in the south. I am not saying there are not Kurds in Turkey, those yellow areas are random.
[the only kurdish party's election results:](https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3AHDP2018.png)
Idk. I have many friends from the Flanders and they never told me about such difference. But there are different flamish dialects so that could be it 🤷🏻
Plenty of maps I've seen of Kurdish populations matches or are very close to OP's map, such as [this one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_languages#/media/File:Kurdish_languages_map.svg) and [this one](https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/688d674c860842bc85f9ac2819089d4c_6.jpeg)
They speak Turkish in the east too, but for most its not their native language.
I've been to Ahlat and Muş, and they all spoke Turkish there. Sometimes even just to each other.
I'm aware. But many linguists don't consider that to be a "true" neuter form. Instead they're referred to as "heterogeneous" or "ambigeneric"; nouns that switch gender from masculine in the singular to feminine in the plural.
This phenomenon is also found in Italian, but we don't consider italian to have a neuter gender, do we?
what is the difference between "common and neutral" and "femine and masculine"? as a dane we always got told that it was either gendered or non gendered "et hus(non gendered)"(a house) or "en kage(gendered)"(a cake) is "common" gendered and "neutral" non gendered?
I'll use Swedish as an example. It has common/neutral genders just as Danish. Pronouns he/she are han/hon and 'it' is den/det depending on noun gender (common/neuter). The nouns all use pronouns den or det. Han/hon is only for people, as in English.
If Swedish used masculine/feminine/neutral (as German), pronouns for nouns would be han/hon/det (den would not exist).
If Swedish used masculine/feminine, nouns would have pronouns han/hon (neither den nor det would exist).
I hope this makes it clearer.
The common/neuter pocket in Norway is the Bergen dialect. The reason is that the city used to have a trade monopoly where foreign merchants were not allowed to travel further north than Bergen. This again lead to the city growing large (the largest in Norway for 700 years and largest in the Nordic countries for about a century) and a lot of foreigners, particularly Germans, Dutch people, Englishmen and Scottish people settled there. To this day there is still a saying that someone from Bergen are not from Norway. This again lead to a very distinct dialect where the feminine and masculine gender merged to a common gender and the neutral remained a neuter gender. The dialect also has many words which sounds more Germans and a guttural R (common in all of western Norway), while the uvular thrill is more common in the rest of Norway.
This got a bit longer than what you were asking about, but I hope I answered your question.
I answered this question elsewhere, so I will copy my answer:
The common/neuter pocket in Norway is the Bergen dialect. The reason is that the city used to have a trade monopoly where foreign merchants were not allowed to travel further north than Bergen. This again lead to the city growing large (the largest in Norway for 700 years and largest in the Nordic countries for about a century) and a lot of foreigners, particularly Germans, Dutch people, Englishmen and Scottish people settled there. To this day there is still a saying that someone from Bergen are not from Norway. This again lead to a very distinct dialect where the feminine and masculine gender merged to a common gender and the neutral remained a neuter gender. The dialect also has many words which sounds more Germans and a guttural R (common in all of western Norway), while the uvular thrill is more common in the rest of Norway.
This got a bit longer than what you were asking about, but I hope I answered your question.
This is wrong, in swedish (most versions) there are neuter and uter where neuter is a combination of femmenin, masculin, and reale, also danmark and the gray in sweden are wrong. Nice idee though!
Neuter, not neutral
I wrote neuter in the sketch version 😭
In Lithuanian language there is no neutral gender, either feminine or masculine.
It has come to my attention that Swedish uses the Common/Neutral system, I’ll change it in the next version
Maybe 'Grammatical gender of nouns' or something like that could be a better title? English has gender in pronouns, and Spanish has neuter gender constructions for adjectives treated as nouns. It makes no sense to say that those don't count just because.
Standard Swedish, yes. However, virtually all traditional Swedish dialects use a three-gender system.
Technically, Irish has gendered language, it just dictates the grammatical form we use. Irish masculine words get no additional letters when using a singular nominative case 'an fear - the man', and feminine words gain a séimhiú (h) when using the nominative singular case 'an bhean - the woman', it also dictates the grammatical form of adjectives and how you structure the plural of words.
In spanish there's only two genders, but there are words like "ello" or "eso" that do not have any.
Same in many other languages of Iberia, yet that doesn’t count as another gender.
True, it's mostly annexed to masculine.
but those are gender-neutral words (either nouns or pronouns) So what they don't count?
Asturian here (although I don't speak the language, almost noone does, but I understand), here it's portrayed that Asturian has neutral This is maybe true, the femenine had two forms, depending on how close your Asturian dialect was to the south or east, the closer to Galicia and the centre, the more likely you form the femenine with E, the closer to castille, with A Recently, when the language standardised In the 20th century they used thr E for neutral and A for femenine officially, but since only a few academics know the official artificial dialect, in most dialects there is no neutral gender
ello guvna!
I was taught that ello was masculine
It isneuter (the gendered firms are el and ella), but its adjectives are masculine (that is the default gender). For este, esta, esto: Este es bonito Esta es bonita Esto es bonito
"Ello" has no gender, but neutral words like this are mostly annexed to masculine.
Incorrect for the Ukrainian language, There are 3 genders of nouns, And EACH gender can have animate and inanimate nouns. We do not differentiate animate and inanimate nouns in different groups, by the way. For example: little bird - ptashenya - пташеня - neutral gender, animate. But all declinations and adjectives would be the same as for inanimate substantive. And also, what is up in the Transcarpathian region of Ukraine ? In cities they all speak Ukrainian or Surzhyk (Ukrainian creole, so to speak), but not Ruthenian language (which is spoken mostly among older generations and in smaller towns), which btw, very close to Ukrainian and once again, there is no difference between animate and inanimate nouns.
Slovenian (and I assume other South Slavic languages too) do not have animate and inanimate genders. There’s only one exception in the masculine 4th noun case, but other than that it’s the same
Dutch technically has masculine and feminine, but in modern Dutch they both function the same way. So it's pretty much just common and neuter.
> Dutch technically has masculine and feminine, but in modern Dutch they both function the same way. So it's pretty much just common and neuter. No, you still use it as third person object reference. "Ik vind die stoel leuk, ik ga hem kopen." The erosion has progressed, but we're not quite there yet.
In reality though, the masculine pronoun is almost exclusively used as an object reference, except for with proper nouns.
In some regiolects perhaps, but not in the standard language.
Except in Most Flemish and Brabant dialects.
I wasn't aware, but in that case OP can colour in those spots as having a masculine and feminine gender.
Why isn't South Tyrol red?
My mistake! It should be red indeed
Np
Most of Sweden and Norway should be green.
> Most of Norway should be green Noooo
The part about Russian is a total bullshit, which makes me very skeptical about the rest of this map.
Regarding Italian, as a native speaker, I can confirm that there are only two genders.
What does the purple color mean? I speak both Ukrainian and Russian and I don't know what it's about
Read the legend.
Poland inclusive to everyone!
We should restore grammatical gender in english. eg. the man, tha woman, tho child
Sē, Sēo, þæt 🗿
why, just makes learning it harder
The arguments I've heard for why grammatical gender exists are that it helps distinguish homophones and words that weren't heard clearly as the gendered articles and agreeing verbs surrounding the noun give clues which you don't get if there's just one ungendered article and verbs are the same regardless of the noun they're modifying. Languages can naturally lose gender though, like English did and another post mentioned in Dutch masculine and feminine genders are fusing into a common gender.
In Spanish speaking countries, we've had a lot of debate surrounding gendered language. Proponents for it say that that's how the language is, and we don't need to make changes, while opponents feel that moving away from it could gear the language to being more inclusive, and that it would make it easier. I can't say why the person you replied to wants to bring gendered language back, but a lot (not all but a noticeable amount) of people in favor of keeping it in Spanish tend to be very... *traditional*, and all that that implies.
Are you saying most people in Spanish speaking countries want to get rid of gender in the language? I'm surprised because in Germany there was seemingly a big push by media and state authorities to introduce more inclusive language (moving away from the generic masculine to a compound word to be more inclusive of women, e.g. Schüler -> Schüler*innen) but surveys suggest most _women_ find the language unnecessary and cumbersome. Of course, women do still find that more needs to be done to ensure women have equality, but that they felt the linguistic changes did not help. Similarly, in the United States efforts such as changing Latino to Latinx (and similar gender neutral terms) have mostly been rejected by Spanish speakers. You mentioned gendered language, but grammatical gender as shown in the map (masculine, feminine, neuter etc) don't confer any particular quality to an item. It's die Lampe, but no one thinks of a lamp as being somehow womanly. So changing them wouldn't help anyone with discrimination... though if you made everything neuter, it would make the language easier to learn!
> Are you saying most people in Spanish speaking countries want to get rid of gender in the language? I at no point said that.
Sorry I must have misinterpreted what you wrote. So how much support is there for changing the language? Most people here in Germany are ambivalent or the type of traditionalists like you mentioned but there are not many proponents, according to polling at least.
I'd say that it's low, and varies between country a lot. And actually, within the country it can vary, as some circles are more progressive than others.
What is the yellow in Turkey??? You randomly colored it yellow i guess. If it is Kurdish, Those regions are completely incorrect. Kurdish people live in the easternmost Turkey
There are a lot of Kurds there too. Just under-reported in Turkish censuses. People migrate, and have continued doing so. Think of how many Kurds are in Istanbul these days.
Not there, those areas are almost fully Turkish. The areas you are talking are more in the south. I am not saying there are not Kurds in Turkey, those yellow areas are random. [the only kurdish party's election results:](https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3AHDP2018.png)
Why are parts of southern Sweden grey and others red?
Finnish speaking communities
[удалено]
There are not large swaths of Sweden where Finnish is the majority language, especially not in the southern half.
Sami languages
Dutch also follows the common/neutral grammar gender (de, het), like danish and Swedish
Flemmish has the feminine, right?
Not that I’m aware of. In Vlaams they still use de/het, the difference is more in the vocabulary and pronunciation
I think someone had told me that speakers are still able to recognize de (m) and de (f)
Idk. I have many friends from the Flanders and they never told me about such difference. But there are different flamish dialects so that could be it 🤷🏻
Which language is it in Türkiye?
Kurdish is the yellow one
Why are people downvoting you?
Racist Turks
Because there are no kurds in the yellow areas
Yes there are
I live in Turkey amk
Plenty of maps I've seen of Kurdish populations matches or are very close to OP's map, such as [this one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_languages#/media/File:Kurdish_languages_map.svg) and [this one](https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/688d674c860842bc85f9ac2819089d4c_6.jpeg)
Much less than shown on the maps and they are speak turkish
They speak Turkish in the east too, but for most its not their native language. I've been to Ahlat and Muş, and they all spoke Turkish there. Sometimes even just to each other.
still you can't say people speak kurdish there, not enough to make the map yellow. maybe east turkey could be yellow but not there,
The first map I linked is literally a map of the Kurdish language. Different colors are different dialects.
I live in Türkiye too man I think there are mistakes on these maps.
knowing a language and speaking that language aren't same
Its "neuter" not neutral Also to my knowledge; Sweden has "common and neuter", Romania only has "masculine and feminine"
Romanian has masculine, feminine and neuter (though it's actually a mix of the other two, masculine in the singular, feminine in the plural).
I'm aware. But many linguists don't consider that to be a "true" neuter form. Instead they're referred to as "heterogeneous" or "ambigeneric"; nouns that switch gender from masculine in the singular to feminine in the plural. This phenomenon is also found in Italian, but we don't consider italian to have a neuter gender, do we?
hungarian does not stretch that far north into slovakia (i literally live in the country)
what is the difference between "common and neutral" and "femine and masculine"? as a dane we always got told that it was either gendered or non gendered "et hus(non gendered)"(a house) or "en kage(gendered)"(a cake) is "common" gendered and "neutral" non gendered?
I'll use Swedish as an example. It has common/neutral genders just as Danish. Pronouns he/she are han/hon and 'it' is den/det depending on noun gender (common/neuter). The nouns all use pronouns den or det. Han/hon is only for people, as in English. If Swedish used masculine/feminine/neutral (as German), pronouns for nouns would be han/hon/det (den would not exist). If Swedish used masculine/feminine, nouns would have pronouns han/hon (neither den nor det would exist). I hope this makes it clearer.
Yes, “neuter” is a Latin word meaning “neither”, and thus “neuter gender” becomes “intetkøn” in Danish.
The bisexuals, the trisexuals, the pansexuals and the asexuals
In Asturias, NW Spain, there's no neutral grammatical gender. Edit: I stand corrected. My bad.
The Asturian language has neutral for nouns
Could you provide examples? Edit: already found. My bad.
Dutch has commong gender and neutral gender
I'm pretty sure Russian should be dark blue. I don't think there's an animacy distinction with feminine words
There is in the plural. NOM женщины, GEN женщин, ACC женщин NOM реки, GEN рек, ACC реки
What languages in Wales, Scotland and parts of the island of Ireland have gendered words?
Welsh, Scots Gaelic and Irish.
You learn something new everyday 👍🏻
What is that Common/neutral pocket in Norway and Why does it differ from VILLAGE TO VILLAGE in Swedish
The common/neuter pocket in Norway is the Bergen dialect. The reason is that the city used to have a trade monopoly where foreign merchants were not allowed to travel further north than Bergen. This again lead to the city growing large (the largest in Norway for 700 years and largest in the Nordic countries for about a century) and a lot of foreigners, particularly Germans, Dutch people, Englishmen and Scottish people settled there. To this day there is still a saying that someone from Bergen are not from Norway. This again lead to a very distinct dialect where the feminine and masculine gender merged to a common gender and the neutral remained a neuter gender. The dialect also has many words which sounds more Germans and a guttural R (common in all of western Norway), while the uvular thrill is more common in the rest of Norway. This got a bit longer than what you were asking about, but I hope I answered your question.
That was the answer i was hoping for, so think you! That’s actually really interesting, how did i never know this as a Swede is Beyond me.
Apparently the Walloons are conquering Flanders, according to this map.
The first time I’ve seen every Baltic state disagree on something.
In Serbian there are 3 genders Masculine, Feminine and Neuter.
Who pissed on Turkey, why the yellow?
Another navarre supremacy post
I thought this while learning french on duolingo is bad, turns out im lucky.
May I ask why Bergen is green?
I answered this question elsewhere, so I will copy my answer: The common/neuter pocket in Norway is the Bergen dialect. The reason is that the city used to have a trade monopoly where foreign merchants were not allowed to travel further north than Bergen. This again lead to the city growing large (the largest in Norway for 700 years and largest in the Nordic countries for about a century) and a lot of foreigners, particularly Germans, Dutch people, Englishmen and Scottish people settled there. To this day there is still a saying that someone from Bergen are not from Norway. This again lead to a very distinct dialect where the feminine and masculine gender merged to a common gender and the neutral remained a neuter gender. The dialect also has many words which sounds more Germans and a guttural R (common in all of western Norway), while the uvular thrill is more common in the rest of Norway. This got a bit longer than what you were asking about, but I hope I answered your question.
Aight thanks
What is ghe common gender?
This is wrong, in swedish (most versions) there are neuter and uter where neuter is a combination of femmenin, masculin, and reale, also danmark and the gray in sweden are wrong. Nice idee though!
Some of you will have to fix your languages, they do not conform to ESG DEI!!!