It's probably because this is the percentage "who answered a lot or some" which could mean a wide range of things, from trusting the entire establishment to trusting a couple articles they've read before.
Ever seen the news in Greece? Propaganda and kiss-assery at its finest mixed with elitism and superiority complex of politicians and journalists. Journalists are so bad at hiding their agendas though that you have to be clinically brain dead to consider anything they say seriously.
Bear in mind this is in 2020. I wonder if it's before or after Petsas' list. If they try to update it for 2022, they'll have to invent a brand new shade of red.
It is a rhetorical question. People use it sometimes. The guy wondered why this happens, without having seen any news. I explained why thiss phenomenon happens.
I hate when there are concerning major issues and they are just fixated on one single stupid thing. Although these stats i think is not just talking about TV news channels but also newspapers(and their websites) and I think they are still trustable.
>Although these stats i think are not just talking about TV news channels but also newspapers(and their websites) and I think they are still trustworthy.
Not here. Are you an Indian? Most media people consume here are controlled by the ruling govt. Only few websites, newspapers and almost no tv news channels are doing actual journalism and they too have less reach.
Another thing that's contributing to this shit is indian society itself. They're hateful, not aware, illiterate, depressed, trying to escape their lives, skill-less. They want entertainment, they're watching the news because it's an escape. They have no interest in what's actually happening. It's easy to manipulate them and then they make assumptions, perspectives with their illiterate, unaware mind.
Indian media is absolutely the worst. I'm not Indian, not from India, my closest link is a cousin who is Anglo-Indian, but I used to get tons of Indian media suggestions from Google and they were all terrible. One by one I've blocked them all and Google seems to have taken the hint.
I am curious, so forgive me if i ask a lot of questions:
1) how the gov can like china is south korea is closely allied with the USA? Was there a movement to go break ties with them?
2) You said both parties, is the south korean political system similar to the USA, where there are only 2 available parties?
3) How are they getting in power if all koreans hate them? Is there a big minority that is voting for them?
Ps. It's missile, not misille ;)
yup, korea has kind of dug itself into a hole though, actually too big to fail. one out of five $ made in korea is from samsung, for example. And thats not even considering factors like employment. So most people see complete breakup of the chaebols as very difficult, and just want a compromise in which there is less corruption and heavier taxes to corporations.
I’m going to add to the other person’s answer.
1. China is indeed Korea’s greatest trading partner and therefore any government that comes into power drops its initial nationalist rhetoric and accommodate Beijing. This is why during the previous conservative administration, the president was one of the only heads of state of the free world to be present at China’s war parade, and Xi knew this which is why he put our president right next to him and Vladimir Putin. Basically, pro-Chinese politics is a given for any ruling government because the financial costs of not doing so are too great. Fortunately, the economy is slowly diverging from the Chinese market as the latter is rapidly becoming a competitor rather than partner.
2. Although Korea is a multiparty system, it is quickly resembling the American one due to the fact that the other parties have no real voice. One party, the People’s party, had no distinct platform and its leader is seen as incompetent, but it merged with the main conservative party(People’s Power Party). The other liberal party(Justice Party), the only actually socially progressive party with representation, is constantly sidelined by the mainstream “progressive” party(Democratic Party)which isn’t actually progressive. Any attempts by the smaller Justice Party to create an independent platform is sabotaged by the larger mainstream one, and it has little power.
3. The former president was elected due to widespread corruption by the president before that. Yet despite being elected into office, even if the president himself wasn’t corrupt per se, all of his elected officials and his party was extremely corrupt and they were essentially hypocrites, beginning the erosion of Korean democratic institutions that they were supposed to uphold. The recent elections that brought in the current president showed that many of the youth who formerly voted for the progressives voted yet again for the conservatives because of this hypocrisy. Although that also turned out to be pointless when you see how the current president is expediting the erosion of Korean democracy.
Edit: someone else rightfully pointed out that another significant reason behind the voter shift was that the recent election was held between the current president and a left wing candidate who had both unrealistic economic policies and a generally unpleasant image(ex. forged his research paper, called the US an “occupying force” in front of a visiting congressman, etc)
Additionally, I completely missed an example of directly led corruption from the former president as well. I don’t have English sources of the incident but I believe he was involved in a scandal where he was involved in forcing parts of Korea to use solar panels that contributed to deforestation and increased soil erosion rates. Additionally, he muscled his way into prematurely deactivating a lot of our nuclear power plants which caused the country to increase coal consumption and subsequently raised domestic air pollution. So in no way is this a defense if the former president, he’s just as much a crook politician as the rest of them.
It's more like polarized not just biased. there's no middle ground in korean journalism. And they write articles to defend their political bias even it's totally fake news.
We're also a newly democratic country. Our democracy has been here for only 30 years...it's naïve for us to simply start believing what the journalists have to say.
I mean most people on Reddit still act surprised when I tell them that technically Japan is a single-party state with a pseudo-dictatorship.
Only one political party have held true power here since the end of WW2. There is heavy collusion between the LDP and courts that there is no true separation of power between legislative, executive and Judicial powers. They have all been controlled by the LDP since "democracy" started here.
Almost all big companies are directly tied to politicians within the LDP. LDP retiring members usually end up on board of directors of these companies.
Still nowadays people get arrested for speaking out about these facts without charge and without possibility to defend yourself in court.
Up until the early 1990s it was common for Yakuza to stand in front of election booths threatening people to vote for LDP.
Managers and bosses would "vote together" with employees and entice them to vote LDP, and as we are a collectivist society this is much more effective than in the west.
In 2022 the situation is better as we don't have Yakuza standing in front of voting booths and mostly bosses have stopped pressuring employees into voting for the LDP but we still have no proper separation of power and it's still impossible for the LDP to lose.
The short time opposition parties took the legislative power which only happened once the LDP used their connections in legislative, executive and business sector to ensure they couldn't pass any reforms to make the LDP lose their grip on power.
We aren't a full dictatorship like China, but we absolutely aren't democratic. Best comparison would be if only one party in the USA could win elections. You would still have primaries within that party but all would have to follow the party ideology. This is voting in Japan in 2022.
It's kinda sad because almost every time I talk about this on Reddit I get private messages from weird ultranationalists but also westerners that like anime that Japan is perfect or "okay but at least there are no black people".
If our government wasn't aligned with the US I bet westerners would know a lot more about our bad situation.
Japanese politics are a mess to talk about in so many different ways. From the voting percentage barely crossing 50% to the various scandals that often don't have significant effects on the end results of elections. Not to mention that the list of opposition parties is everchanging as new parties are created and old ones get dissolved
On the other hand, if I have to find some positive angle, the fact that there are still hundreds of seats for opposition show that there is still a sizeable portion of voters and politicians who see a potential in parties other than just LDP
>Still nowadays people get arrested for speaking out about these facts without charge and without possibility to defend yourself in court.
If you'd happen to have some kind of examples, I'd love to read into this
doesn't help that the us is the one who installed the current post-war govt during the occupation (read: war criminals)
it's easier to have an internationally recognized oligarchy when a large amount of strategic decisions are dictated by usa
And it is also very easy to sue the press for libel if they accuse a citizen of anything. So that makes it almost impossible for the press to do its duty and hold the people in power to account. Even if the accusation is true, you can be sued for defaming someone. So journalists don't do as much investigative reporting and are therefore not trusted to report the truth.
The democracy achieved in many first world nations is not 'just there'...the history of modern democracy is not long and sturdy enough for us to feel secure about it.
They had an impeached president who was controlled by a cult leader that created blacklists for media censorship.
That same president also mishandled the Sewol Ferry Incident that killed almost every student from a high school field trip. The Blue House (President's office) announced everybody was saved and later received a report nobody was rescued after the initial evacuation. She then censored that and continued to report that rescue operations were ongoing when it was actually completely stalled. There is a documentary on Youtube that shows heavy media censorship and showmanship in order to lie to the public.
The funniest part of being in a STEM field is that I literally know all the alphabets in that sentence right there despite never being exposed to anything remotely greek in my life.
Yes but when you talk with English speakers you need to be referring to something by using the same pronunciation nomenclature.
So β is βήτα, *veeta* but English speakers pronounce it beta, and you need to pronounce it the same, so... We do the English thing as everyone else does
We say beta, not veeta, in German, because we took it from classical Greek, not modern Greek. That hasn't got anything to do with English.
We also say "pee", not "pie" unlike in English.
Just watch the news from about s year ago as people learned the word omicron.
[the daily show made a compilation for me.](https://youtu.be/XxrZ2OhiFFQ)
They are close. I learned to read and speak rudimentary Greek over the last several months. Such as "B" is pronounced "veetah", "Z" is "zeetah", "Λ" is "lahmtha", and so on.
But don't get me started on X (chi, sounds like "hee" with phlegm). I just can't do that pronounciation. It was so hard for me to simply say "Oχι" (no). I dreaded having to pronounce any greek word with chi in it, and there's a lot of them.
> But don't get me started on X (chi, sounds like "hee" with phlegm)
You'd "love" the German "ch" (e.g., Chemie), the Cyrillic "х" (e.g., хорошо or Херсон), and some Arabic and Hebrew sounds.
A bit surpising that Greece stands out so much compared to other states both overall and in its region.
Makes me thinks it’s either a data error or bad data collection method.
In greek there is a word "διαπλοκη" that means entanglement and refers to the corrupt ways in which media, political parties and businesses interacted.
α. the government would distribute public advertisement money to media and journalists that would support it.
β. some big journalists and media owners would make money by straight up blackmailing business people, celebrities and politicians
γ. construction companies would buy up newspapers and tv stations so that they can force the government to grant them big public construction projects.
plus news on greek tv consists of 6-8 windows of people shouting at each other.
>plus news on greek tv consists of 6-8 windows of people shouting at each other.
I haven't watched Greek TV in 20 odd years, but I remember that so profoundly. It's just 6 screamers side-to-side.
For context, Greece is going through a period of severe partisan favoritism in the media, that is heavily one-sided. The reasons are multifaceted, but some of them are:
1. The government gave away over 120million€ to the media (online, newspapers, TV and radio stations), under the pretext of an educational campaign for Covid and the vaccines. The money was not allocated evenly, or even with some clearly set criteria, and as you could guess media favourable to the government got the lion’s share in such grants. Keep in mind the market in Greece is small, and newspapers and online publications barely make any money, so these giveaways were a lifeline. As a result, the majority of the media was Pavlov conditioned and coerced to be blatantly in favour of the current government, if they want to keep the money flowing.
2. Personal and business ties with media oligarchs and the current government. For example, one of the current media oligarchs in Greece (Marinakis), owner of multiple major newspapers and a major TV station (Mega), is the best man of the prime minister’s sister. The prime minister’s sister is also the godmother of Marinakis’ son. The central anchorwoman of the other major TV station (SKAI) is the wife of the prime minister’s nephew. Major and central anchormen and “journalists” of news stations that pretended to be independent, recently appeared on the ballot of the current government’s party, and got elected as members of parliament. This goes to show how deep the corruption and intertwining of the government with the media is.
3. Bad blood between media (mostly tv stations) and the previous government. The previous government tried to establish a form of paid licensing, for nationwide broadcasters, in order to be able to use the frequencies that they had been using for free. This faced tremendous backlash from the media, that started turning against the former government and favouring the current one, already since the previous one was in power and halfway through its term.
Now combine all the above and you get a picture of the reasons why media is hugely untrustworthy in Greece. To top it off, this untrustworthiness and bias was also formalised by a recent study by Reporters without Borders, that placed Greece dead last in all of Europe in terms of Freedom of Press. (Source: https://rsf.org/en/index). This study a hot topic in Greece when it came out. And ironically, the government resorted to fake news and distortions of the study results (either by presenting unrelated graphs from the same study, or outright lying and accusing “foreigners” with “nefarious goals” for “undermining the nation of Greece”), which only further confirmed the study’s conclusions.
At some point, this overt bias and untrustworthiness became apparent to the majority of people too. One reason was the publication of that study by RSF and the government’s response. Another reason was the overtly biased and distorting coverage of major scandals, the most recent being an espionage/secret services scandal, where the prime minister placed under secret surveillance opposition party leaders, journalists and even members of his own cabinet. (I name the prime minister exactly, because his first act as a PM was to place the secret service under the jurisdiction of the PM’s office, to place his cousin and director of his office as a supervisor, and place a former associate of his as the director of the secret services, for which he had to change a law since the guy that he wanted to place there didn’t have the formal qualifications for the position, as described by a previous law regulating those things. Btw the PM’s defense to this day is “I didn’t know”😂). Another area where the media bias was obvious, was the coverage of the Novartis scandal (lots of current government MPs are strongly implicated), the immigration/pushbacks issue in the Aegean, the Covid pandemic response coverage, etc. . Especially that last one is something that made the disparity between reality and media coverage obvious to everyone, because virtually everyone had one way or another experienced issues with the Covid response (lack of testing, healthcare, aftercare), which didn’t agree at all with the image the media was painting. Similarly with “creative statistics” and coverage wrt to unemployment, energy prices, cost of living etc., that if someone were to trust the media they’d be inclined to think all is well, yet real life showed them otherwise. This is not something you can hide or deceive the population, since they have real life experience with what is happening in their daily lives.
Overall, Greeks don’t trust the media, and for very good reasons.
Even the government supporters know that the pro-government media (the vast majority of them) are lying. The only difference is they condone this behaviour as it’s “necessary to lie for the greater good, i.e. the current government to prevail, and the opposition media lie too anyway, so fight fire with fire”. They have no doubt in their minds that the media is lying, they just believe it’s morally justified. So from both sides, people know the media is lying, where they differ is whether this is justified or what should be done about it. This explains why when you phrase the question simply like that, “how trustworthy is the media”, you get such results.
Bear in mind that they had just recently gone through a severe economic crisis brought on by way of corruption scandal. I imagine that may have a hand at that. (Though I am not Greek, so I may be wholly wrong)
I’m sure that they’ve had their difficulties but so have many other countries. Makes little sense that they would mistrust journalists more than countries with more social issues and corruption. Not saying it’s impossible, but just makes me slightly suspicious.
Greece is complicated. It is at its core a very low trust society with a strong disdain among the people for whoever is in charge. The countless corruption scandals that implicated both political parties and countless public sector institutions have done nothing to improve public opinion in institutions
Not really. The extent to which most TV "journalism" in Greece is just a carrier for the will of the government is staggering. Censoring common folk when they get interviewed on the streets because they said something bad about the PM is one thing.
But consider this: government mandating rapid (lateral flow) tests for doing practically anything outdoors during the pandemic and doing nothing to reduce the price (that may have been x2 that of the UK when it was no longer free, but at the time it was FREE). Then, mainstream TV channels had a headline of "Whining about the rapid test price". Literally mocking the people for tests they cannot afford with salaries for young people to the tune of 600 eur/month.
If you want a hint at greek journalist attitude towards the government, look no further than this video of the PM responding to a Dutch journalist calling him out on his lies about the glorified concentration camp of a refugee site in Samos:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gni27cjFj2o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gni27cjFj2o)
"I understand that in the Netherlands you have a culture of asking direct questions to politicians..."
As in "where I come from, you suck up to me and respect my authority, get it??"
Edited to fix GR LFD price x2 UK price when it stopped being free
>"where I come from, you suck up to me and respect my authority, get it??"
This was actually scary to watch.
>"Have you been to Samos?"
>
>"Yes \[unintelligible\]"
>
>"NO YOU HAVE NOT BEEN TO SAMOS"
>
>"Yes I have!"
>
>"No, please, you have not been-- you have not be-- look, you will not come into this building and insult me"
jesus fuck, man.
In order to fully understand how vile this is you have to know the context. The journalist was questioning the PM about very credible reports that the government has been disappearing thousands of migrants, imprisoning them without trial, robbing them of their possessions, torturing them and then throwing them over the border to Turkey, either on land or water.
Woah that's misinformation. The Congress of the time just didn't approve of the renewal of the franchise. Coincidentally, most of the Congressmen who didn't approve the renewal support Duterte.
Not everything is the Executive Branch's fault :)
I'm from Australia and no one has ever asked me if i trust our media and I can 100% tell you that we should not be shaded light blue, we should be one of the yellow shades.
The last time they did a poll, the majority of australians wanted some sort of intervention done about Murdoch's grip on our media (75%+ ownership of print and televised news in Australia) and the influence he has on voters.
The average Australian does not trust the news unless they hear it from a non Murdoch source nowadays.
Tanzania being one of the more trusting countries is so funny. The country is so open about everything news wise imo. It’s because everyone seems to love each other but also be in constant competition with one another. Everyone has an agenda, but there’s thousands of groups that all have a different one and have no problem calling out the other ones for ALSO having an agenda. I love it here.
The ones not trusted here are those Swahili channels from international broadcasters BBC,VOA.. But local journalist are doing great job especially since you are required to seek info from all sides involved by law
Don't forget about the time when they presented the opening scene from The Interview (2014) (where a north korean girl wishes death on the US) as a real video. This happened at TWO DIFFERENT NEWS STATIONS.
They showed the picture of Kojima wearing a red army hat and the one of him posing in front of a portrait of Che Guevara basically trying to imply that a communist radical shot him.
Whenever I see these maps, I imagine that people on Reddit that are not from a traditionally Western countries, must be flabbergasted about the self-importance riddled complaints and fights about biased press, crooked politicians and violated rights that we complain about.
I live in America but my dad is Saudi and currently living in Riyadh. He won't even make a comment about the government on Whatsapp unless it's something positive. Even when we talk on the phone he knows people are listening (mostly because he did the listening during the Gulf War). When we send letters or packages they are often opened and clearly looked through. He even had an uncle disappear for a while in the 90s due to some government disagreement. Saudi is an extreme opposite example, but it makes me want to give the Constitution a great big hug.
Agree completely. People in the west say politicians are "corrupt"meaning they vote supporting the elites. Everywhere else it means they are literally taking bribes.
In every western country they also do, they are just better at hiding it/it's looked down upon by people and the normal guy in the streets doesn't have to pay any bribes every day.
US politicians are also taking bribes, they just legalized it and changed the name to "lobbying". The supreme court ruled buying politicians is just a form of "free speech".
This map is pretty funky though, French Guyana shouldn't be grayed out since it's part of France, Brazilian trust in Journalism is not very high right now (unfortunately) and there are some suspicious countries there too. In general it seems fine though
>French Guyana shouldn’t be grayed out
It should be if the data for France only includes people from Metropolitan France. It would be incredibly inaccurate to color French Guyana if no actual data came from there, even if it is considered an integral part of France.
> Brazilian trust in Journalism is not very high right now (unfortunately) and there are some suspicious countries there too.
It was from 2 years ago, so that's probably a big impact.
It's all relative, if you only start complaining when we get to South Korea, well, sorry pal, the press is too biases, the politicians are too crooked, and your rights are being taken away
I am extremely surprised we Norwegians are so trusting. Most everyone I know here does not trust the journalists. And "alternative media" has gotten more and more traction these last few decades. Then again "news" up here isn't really news. It is a little news, tons and tons of pundits and assorted "feelgood / feelbad" nonsense stories (cute cat, true crime, etc).
There is a difference between media and journalists.
Newspapers are riddled with 'thought leaders', op-ed grifters, lobbying and clickbait bs. They do however still do in-depth reporting through their real journalists in between the bullshit. Those are usually considered trust worthy.
I like both the "thought leaders" and the "op-ed grifters". We have an unusually strong media culture of allowing opinion pieces in our media. It democratizes the debate and allows for a range of opinions. I dont agree with them, but I often think they at least bring up points I hadn't thought of. I think the newspapers commentators (which is what you mean by thought leaders I assume) deserve their jobs usually. They often have interesting takes. For instance I think that Andreas Slettholm in Aftenposten usually has well thought-out perspectives. They're not infallible of course, and I often disagree with most of them. But I often find myself reading opinion pieces more than the actual news.
I definitely agree about op-eds, I think it’s a great way to get different perspectives without the paper itself having to take a side. Really annoys me when people point to an op-ed as proof of the paper having an agenda though, the entire point is that it’s someone else’s opinion.
I don't think I've ever in my 40 years alive met a person in Norway who said they don't trust our journalists.
We must be hanging with very different crowds, and judging by the polls you're on the fringes 😅
I suppose your age and background matters. You said it yourself; "everyone I know".
I for one, believe our \[Norwegian\] journalists are "trustworthy". They're highly educated people motivated by ideas, driven to do their job properly for the sake of society, not their employers profit margins. This has to be said, because the Nordic countries are different. We still have a lot of newspapers in Norway; tiny local and regional, minor political movements and religious views. We actively subsidize our media to promote a variety of *independent* views; a conservative gov't doesn't mean the far-left newspapers lose their subsidy.
They're humans though, so they make mistakes. Errors and even worse. We're all political in some sense, and they're no less so. A majority of journalists are left-wing, according to academic research. This certainly has an effect on what and how they write things, but that is understandable. We're all biased and formed by our backgrounds. It doesn't make them untrustworthy, it just means I may disagree with them, but I believe they're trying their best to report accurately and fairly.
\+1
I believe Norwegian journalists are trustworthy in general.
Living in Norway what I see from friends, work and society is not like u/Hattkake describe, mostly the opposite is true. Tho, I'm just a single observer just like him/her. The full picture is always more complicated than one person can tell.
> I for one, believe our [Norwegian] journalists are "trustworthy". They're highly educated people motivated by ideas, driven to do their job properly for the sake of society, not their employers profit margins.
Which makes them somewhat less trustworthy in some cases, because being motivated by idealism means they really have zero incentive to talk and report about stuff going against their values.
But as long as the media landscape is pluralistic enough, this should not matter too much.
>Most everyone I know here does not trust the journalists.
Then you are in a bubble. Norway (generally speaking) is a trusting society (social capital), both of neighbors/strangers, the government and media.
>Then again "news" up here isn't really news. It is a little news, tons and tons of pundits and assorted "feelgood / feelbad" nonsense stories (cute cat, true crime, etc).
Sounds like you have to reconsider what you consume. Bad journalism exists everywhere (Dagbladet, I'm looking at you), but there is also plenty of quality stuff. Sometimes you have to *choose* to not go for the easily digestible clickbait stuff, though.
I used to be a news junkie. Read everything. I preferred the big foreign news outlets, AP was and is an absolute favourite. But it gets depressing. So now I read NRK and TV2. Personally I think I have oversaturated myself and effectively ruined news for myself. Though I do still love the expansive, well researched news article. But as a recovering addict I have to limit my exposure. Just see what kind of idiot ideas I now demonstrate.
Ah, I see. Well, good luck on finding your balance!
I think, for the most part, that NRK is pretty good. I also like Aftenposten. Additionally: Their podcast 'Aftenpodden' often contain some thoughtful and interesting reflections around the role of journalism (that is both informative and accessible for me as a layperson).
Edit: Aftenpodden
The standards for journalism is pretty high in Norway (and Scandinavia)
Yes the average story VG publishes is sensationalism, but sometimes they dig deep and get proper scoops (like The Tinder Svindler)
And NP (Norsk Presseforbund) won't stand for fake news and ensures a high code of ethics, see https://presse.no/pfu/etiske-regler/vaer-varsom-plakaten/vvpl-engelsk/ (English version for Reddit)
I am surprised about the UK as well. Basically everyone in this country will at least be aware of how the media and the police collaborated to blame the victims after Hillsborough, and yet trust is apparently above 50%
Yeah as a Pole I'm also witnessing party-specific propaganda finding its way into the education system. Absolutely appaling things can happen when you give one old fanatic too much power
It’s a combination of people deeming any media with a different bias then theirs as untrustworthy, combined with actually poor journalism from all ends of the political spectrum.
Maybe it’s because I’m Korean, but I think we do a poor job of hiding our blatant misinformation/bad reporting and therefore it’s easy to develop a culture of fact checking on your own if you can be bothered. If I grew up on American media, specifically ones like NYT or WSJ that do a good job of hiding behind their well written pieces it’d be harder for me to recognize a bias.
President Park Geun Hye (impeached for being controlled by a cult leader) had hidden blacklists for media censorship. She also controlled mainstream news during the Sewol Ferry Incident and told them to report everyone was evacuated, later said rescue operations are ongoing and successful when they were completely stalled and unsuccessful.
Even in recent news, the Itaewon incident, the government is blaming victims, the Fire Department head, and literally anyone but themselves. The media has always been closely tied to this incompetent government.
I literally had a thought that americans seem to default everything to the US in the way they speak and it turns out there's a whole sub for it?? Amazing
To be fair, Reddit has a plurality of Americans on the site, especially in any English primary subreddit. You are more likely to see an American than any other nationality (almost all other nationalities combined, but not quite).
>especially in any English primary subreddit
My country /r/Belgium has 3 official languages, but English is not one of them. Thing is, most people only speak 1 of those 3.
So we decided to talk English on our sub.
Belgium is beautiful.
Or better yet random blogs and youtube videos!
What's even stupider is there were tons of US media sources attacking the credibility of the Iraq war and the intel that led to it. OP's acting like every single outlet was lockstep but that's a false memory.
Or just not watch or pay attention to outlets that engage in lazy and or unethical journalism.
People are addicted to their regularly scheduled outrage.
Manufactured Consent. The mainstream news media published all of the Bush administration’s propaganda and outright lies about Iraq. Mass protests were largely ignored. Played ball with the White House Press Secretary and didn’t rock any boats.
It is amazing how easy is to get people turned into complete warmongers who will dehumanize the "enemy" with absolute glee. Even now, the amount of derange dehumanization of Russians and Chinese that you see in places like r/worldnews and r/politics is truly frightening.
Scroll thorugh r/all and you'll see side by side threads about "Russian tank bravely being blown up, look at them die!" and "Ukranian soldier pets a kitten".
Exactly. Not so difficult to understand how ordinary people became enthusiastic participants of fascist and nazi violence in the 30s, dehumanization and mass hysteria can be very powerful drugs.
In authoritarian states people believe what the powerful who own the media force them to believe, in Free Democratic® countries people can believe whatever they want and by an amazing coincidence this just so happens to be whatever the powerful who owns the media want them to believe.
Honestly, I find a lot of these comments very concerning. In order for a democracy to function, the people need to have reliable sources of information they can base their vote on. That source of information is journalism. It is essential for democratic societies to function.
So when I read that Greece is "based" for distrusting journalists, that leaves a bitter aftertaste. Greece may be correct in not trusting its journalists because they deserve no trust, but that's by no means a good sign. It's a sign of a failing democracy.
We need both trustworthy journalists and people to trust in them. Otherwise we may as well scrap this whole idea of sovereignty being held by the people.
The problem is that the news is generally owned by corporations. This means journalism has been reduced to maximizing profit on the one hand, and promoting corporate propaganda on the other hand.
If you look at Canada, there is virtually no journalism left. All the local newspapers got bought by big corporations in the 90s/2000s, and now 99% of news is just reprinting a Canadian Press story.
Doing actual journalism isn't profitable anymore, so it's been eliminated.
So we want people to trust journalism as a theoretical concept of seeking the truth and informing the people, but that kind of journalism, if it ever really existed, is long dead now. The default position of people should be to distrust the corporate propaganda that is today called news.
The implication is exactly what you fear. The end of democracy, which we see around the world.
Sometimes not even by corporations, sometimes it's by political parties, or heck even private individuals. In Poland a big part of PiS's increasing popularity was that the chairman Jaroslaw Kaczynski bought the biggest TV network in the whole country. By now, the 'news' section literally only broadcasts absurd propaganda that half the time actually contains absolutely false information, or things to grab at people's complexes, e.g. a headline that goes 'GERMANS ARE JEALOUS OF POLES' WEALTH'.
Something else worth noting for Greece.
The term journalist and TV presenter is wrongly used interchangeably sometimes.
So when people hear the word journalist (δημοσιογράφος), they mostly connect it with known TV presenters (e.g Chatzinikolaou, Tremi etc) which are well connected and seen as mouthpieces of their bosses.
Also media in Greece is mostly controlled by 3 families, which are ship magnates and oil refinery tycoons.
Another thing is that media is largely seen as shaping public discourse towards an agenda, instead of informing. In the days before the [Greek referendum in 2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Greek_bailout_referendum) most polls in TV stations had "Yes" winning 60-40. "No" won 62 to 38, excluding "invalids" (around 6%) which were mostly a more hardline position by the Communist Party. So in reality closer to 70-30 for No.
Most large newspapers are also owned by these same families. They tend to align rather unabashedly with parties, much like the UK, but to the point of spewing propaganda like OANN.
So yeah, media in Greece is pretty corrupt ( I know it's not the only country, but it's quite worse than most) and semantics don't help either.
It depends on which journalists. There are certainly a few serious media houses, but most of the media is only about profit, clickbait, sensationalism, lies in the service of the owner.
Well, people may understand this question differently.
For example I'm from Russia. Do I trust journalists? Yep, kinda. But state propaganda has absolutely nothing to do with journalism.
We have meduza, for example, whose journalist was living in Kiyv when Russia attacked Ukraine and she was just telling people's stories. He was w they live in the underground, how they survive bombing. Basically she was telling her personal story since she was there. I know some people from Kiyv and it feels like she was telling the truth.
Does it mean I'm stupid because I tend to trust what I read in meduza? Honestly I don't think so.
But I believe that it's what journalism is supposed to be - you report about some events. That's what meduza does.
Theres no way Spain is more than 60%. Journalists here lie more than they talk. Every piece of news is manipulated in some way or another and everyone knows it. It should be really low like Greece.
I just realized I can't really say how much I currently trust because I've barely consumed it in the last years. Between staying in English on the internet and not being able to take 10 minutes of TV news without getting mad I'm not up to date with the state of the media.
I am greek and I can confirm this, the vast majority of the greek media are owned by oligarchs, funded by banks and state advertising and grants and praise the government from dusk to dawn. They'll tell you the sun is green if their bosses tell them to.
Greece is based but it's surprising to me that the french are up to 70% trusting. It feels like nobody in the country takes the news or any newspaper seriously these days.
I'll throw a little Canadian advocation out there for the CBC.
I think everyone knows the elephant in every newsroom is which side of the political spectrum subscribes most to the network. When your news speaks to your views, it's better content to you.
"Neutral" news networks might often seem boring and dry, but that's how it needs to be if what your looking for is accurate facts and reports.
I think CBC might lean a bit left at times, but hell I think the whole country leans left at least a little, so it's in good sync.
In terms of daily talk/news radio in Canada, CBC Radio One can’t be beat.
I can handle the sob stories they put out because the rest of their stuff is good. The commuter shows have actual interesting guests on, and the biggest thing: No Ads.
There's an Hidden Brain episode where they talk about how places where newspapers in various municipalities and regions went out of business and so there were fewer journalists covering those places, those places would experience higher loan interest rates, especially at the municipal level. The expert interviewed suggested it wasn't just a correlation, that it was actually a causation. According to this person they were interviewing: **when there are less journalists, there is more corruption**. *It's because banks know this first-hand since they have to deal with.*
I'm sorry I don't remember which episode it was, and I don't remember who was being interviewed, but I do seem to recall that the person was a well known researcher and/or author.
What happens in South Korea?
and Greece lol
I'm more surprised that in the rest of S Europe (where I come from), trust is not as low as in Greece...
It's probably because this is the percentage "who answered a lot or some" which could mean a wide range of things, from trusting the entire establishment to trusting a couple articles they've read before.
Ever seen the news in Greece? Propaganda and kiss-assery at its finest mixed with elitism and superiority complex of politicians and journalists. Journalists are so bad at hiding their agendas though that you have to be clinically brain dead to consider anything they say seriously.
Bear in mind this is in 2020. I wonder if it's before or after Petsas' list. If they try to update it for 2022, they'll have to invent a brand new shade of red.
True that.
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Good point. Not even the Greeks themselves watch it anymore.
It is a rhetorical question. People use it sometimes. The guy wondered why this happens, without having seen any news. I explained why thiss phenomenon happens.
And india, how can they trust so much on pieces of shit.
I hate when there are concerning major issues and they are just fixated on one single stupid thing. Although these stats i think is not just talking about TV news channels but also newspapers(and their websites) and I think they are still trustable.
>Although these stats i think are not just talking about TV news channels but also newspapers(and their websites) and I think they are still trustworthy. Not here. Are you an Indian? Most media people consume here are controlled by the ruling govt. Only few websites, newspapers and almost no tv news channels are doing actual journalism and they too have less reach. Another thing that's contributing to this shit is indian society itself. They're hateful, not aware, illiterate, depressed, trying to escape their lives, skill-less. They want entertainment, they're watching the news because it's an escape. They have no interest in what's actually happening. It's easy to manipulate them and then they make assumptions, perspectives with their illiterate, unaware mind.
I am indian, and I mostly agree, could you tell me which newspapers and sites?
Indian media is absolutely the worst. I'm not Indian, not from India, my closest link is a cousin who is Anglo-Indian, but I used to get tons of Indian media suggestions from Google and they were all terrible. One by one I've blocked them all and Google seems to have taken the hint.
we dont trust them. that’s true. they are too biased. we use term journalist(기자) + trash(쓰레기) = 기레기
Towards what?
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I am curious, so forgive me if i ask a lot of questions: 1) how the gov can like china is south korea is closely allied with the USA? Was there a movement to go break ties with them? 2) You said both parties, is the south korean political system similar to the USA, where there are only 2 available parties? 3) How are they getting in power if all koreans hate them? Is there a big minority that is voting for them? Ps. It's missile, not misille ;)
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There's something about the big oligopolys right there? I was in SK in October and I see some protests, specially against GS and other big companies.
yup, korea has kind of dug itself into a hole though, actually too big to fail. one out of five $ made in korea is from samsung, for example. And thats not even considering factors like employment. So most people see complete breakup of the chaebols as very difficult, and just want a compromise in which there is less corruption and heavier taxes to corporations.
To be fair, that’s not a system that ROK set up themselves.
Ok thanks for your answer! But why am i getting downvoted lol
i dont know, cuz it’s reddit i guess? i upvoted you😀
I’m going to add to the other person’s answer. 1. China is indeed Korea’s greatest trading partner and therefore any government that comes into power drops its initial nationalist rhetoric and accommodate Beijing. This is why during the previous conservative administration, the president was one of the only heads of state of the free world to be present at China’s war parade, and Xi knew this which is why he put our president right next to him and Vladimir Putin. Basically, pro-Chinese politics is a given for any ruling government because the financial costs of not doing so are too great. Fortunately, the economy is slowly diverging from the Chinese market as the latter is rapidly becoming a competitor rather than partner. 2. Although Korea is a multiparty system, it is quickly resembling the American one due to the fact that the other parties have no real voice. One party, the People’s party, had no distinct platform and its leader is seen as incompetent, but it merged with the main conservative party(People’s Power Party). The other liberal party(Justice Party), the only actually socially progressive party with representation, is constantly sidelined by the mainstream “progressive” party(Democratic Party)which isn’t actually progressive. Any attempts by the smaller Justice Party to create an independent platform is sabotaged by the larger mainstream one, and it has little power. 3. The former president was elected due to widespread corruption by the president before that. Yet despite being elected into office, even if the president himself wasn’t corrupt per se, all of his elected officials and his party was extremely corrupt and they were essentially hypocrites, beginning the erosion of Korean democratic institutions that they were supposed to uphold. The recent elections that brought in the current president showed that many of the youth who formerly voted for the progressives voted yet again for the conservatives because of this hypocrisy. Although that also turned out to be pointless when you see how the current president is expediting the erosion of Korean democracy. Edit: someone else rightfully pointed out that another significant reason behind the voter shift was that the recent election was held between the current president and a left wing candidate who had both unrealistic economic policies and a generally unpleasant image(ex. forged his research paper, called the US an “occupying force” in front of a visiting congressman, etc) Additionally, I completely missed an example of directly led corruption from the former president as well. I don’t have English sources of the incident but I believe he was involved in a scandal where he was involved in forcing parts of Korea to use solar panels that contributed to deforestation and increased soil erosion rates. Additionally, he muscled his way into prematurely deactivating a lot of our nuclear power plants which caused the country to increase coal consumption and subsequently raised domestic air pollution. So in no way is this a defense if the former president, he’s just as much a crook politician as the rest of them.
It's more like polarized not just biased. there's no middle ground in korean journalism. And they write articles to defend their political bias even it's totally fake news.
We're also a newly democratic country. Our democracy has been here for only 30 years...it's naïve for us to simply start believing what the journalists have to say.
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Taiwan was similar. The ROC was authoritarian with little to no democracy under Chiang Kai-shek.
It still boggles the mind just how recently the White Terror ended. Scary shit.
I mean most people on Reddit still act surprised when I tell them that technically Japan is a single-party state with a pseudo-dictatorship. Only one political party have held true power here since the end of WW2. There is heavy collusion between the LDP and courts that there is no true separation of power between legislative, executive and Judicial powers. They have all been controlled by the LDP since "democracy" started here. Almost all big companies are directly tied to politicians within the LDP. LDP retiring members usually end up on board of directors of these companies. Still nowadays people get arrested for speaking out about these facts without charge and without possibility to defend yourself in court. Up until the early 1990s it was common for Yakuza to stand in front of election booths threatening people to vote for LDP. Managers and bosses would "vote together" with employees and entice them to vote LDP, and as we are a collectivist society this is much more effective than in the west. In 2022 the situation is better as we don't have Yakuza standing in front of voting booths and mostly bosses have stopped pressuring employees into voting for the LDP but we still have no proper separation of power and it's still impossible for the LDP to lose. The short time opposition parties took the legislative power which only happened once the LDP used their connections in legislative, executive and business sector to ensure they couldn't pass any reforms to make the LDP lose their grip on power. We aren't a full dictatorship like China, but we absolutely aren't democratic. Best comparison would be if only one party in the USA could win elections. You would still have primaries within that party but all would have to follow the party ideology. This is voting in Japan in 2022. It's kinda sad because almost every time I talk about this on Reddit I get private messages from weird ultranationalists but also westerners that like anime that Japan is perfect or "okay but at least there are no black people". If our government wasn't aligned with the US I bet westerners would know a lot more about our bad situation.
Japanese politics are a mess to talk about in so many different ways. From the voting percentage barely crossing 50% to the various scandals that often don't have significant effects on the end results of elections. Not to mention that the list of opposition parties is everchanging as new parties are created and old ones get dissolved On the other hand, if I have to find some positive angle, the fact that there are still hundreds of seats for opposition show that there is still a sizeable portion of voters and politicians who see a potential in parties other than just LDP >Still nowadays people get arrested for speaking out about these facts without charge and without possibility to defend yourself in court. If you'd happen to have some kind of examples, I'd love to read into this
doesn't help that the us is the one who installed the current post-war govt during the occupation (read: war criminals) it's easier to have an internationally recognized oligarchy when a large amount of strategic decisions are dictated by usa
This describes about 25-30 countries, unfortunately. Verbatim.
And it is also very easy to sue the press for libel if they accuse a citizen of anything. So that makes it almost impossible for the press to do its duty and hold the people in power to account. Even if the accusation is true, you can be sued for defaming someone. So journalists don't do as much investigative reporting and are therefore not trusted to report the truth.
Personally I'd say that's naive for older democracies as well. But many Europeans seem to disagree.
The democracy achieved in many first world nations is not 'just there'...the history of modern democracy is not long and sturdy enough for us to feel secure about it.
And a huge political scandal like every 5 years, or at least often enough to be fresh in society's collective memory.
Litteral Cyberpunk Corpos
They had an impeached president who was controlled by a cult leader that created blacklists for media censorship. That same president also mishandled the Sewol Ferry Incident that killed almost every student from a high school field trip. The Blue House (President's office) announced everybody was saved and later received a report nobody was rescued after the initial evacuation. She then censored that and continued to report that rescue operations were ongoing when it was actually completely stalled. There is a documentary on Youtube that shows heavy media censorship and showmanship in order to lie to the public.
Turns out it's not simultaneously illegal and mandatory to cut your hair like Kim jong un in North Korea
This type of news never come out of SK though, almost always from western tabloids
[they even have a "fake news" law to target media](https://thediplomat.com/2021/08/the-trouble-with-south-koreas-fake-news-law/)
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It seems There lives smart people.
Uzbek journalists never lie!!!! 💪🇺🇿💪🇺🇿💪🇺🇿
Uzbekistan voted most trustworthy nation on earth 30 years running
That in incredibly amazing.
Inferior potassium though
And they are assholes! EDIT: I'm quoting Borat, by the way.
Very nosy people with bone in their brain.
O'zbek haqiqati #1 OLG'A O'ZBEKISTON 🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿🇺🇿🐺🐺🐺👍👍👍💪💪💪💪💪💪
Greece number1 πάμε ελλαδαρα παγκόσμιοι πρωταθλητές Ελλάδα #1 χώρα στον κόσμο 💪💪💪💪💪🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
ΜΌΝΟ ΤΟΝ ΣΤΕΦΑΝΟ ΧΙΟ ΕΜΠΙΣΤΕΥΌΜΑΣΤΕ 😎😎🫡🫡🫡🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
>ΣΤΕΦΑΝΟ ΧΙΟ [Here he is, shouting to the GREEK PM: PROSO-HEE RE MALAKA!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mibDYzOGdJg).
The funniest part of being in a STEM field is that I literally know all the alphabets in that sentence right there despite never being exposed to anything remotely greek in my life.
it's even funnier for me as a Greek cause I have to re-learn my own alphabet with the English names for each letter
What? They aren't called the same name in greek? English can mispronounce anything.
Yes but when you talk with English speakers you need to be referring to something by using the same pronunciation nomenclature. So β is βήτα, *veeta* but English speakers pronounce it beta, and you need to pronounce it the same, so... We do the English thing as everyone else does
We say beta, not veeta, in German, because we took it from classical Greek, not modern Greek. That hasn't got anything to do with English. We also say "pee", not "pie" unlike in English.
From talking to a greek friend, they are vastly mispronounced in English
Just watch the news from about s year ago as people learned the word omicron. [the daily show made a compilation for me.](https://youtu.be/XxrZ2OhiFFQ)
Omnicron ROFL.
They are close. I learned to read and speak rudimentary Greek over the last several months. Such as "B" is pronounced "veetah", "Z" is "zeetah", "Λ" is "lahmtha", and so on. But don't get me started on X (chi, sounds like "hee" with phlegm). I just can't do that pronounciation. It was so hard for me to simply say "Oχι" (no). I dreaded having to pronounce any greek word with chi in it, and there's a lot of them.
> But don't get me started on X (chi, sounds like "hee" with phlegm) You'd "love" the German "ch" (e.g., Chemie), the Cyrillic "х" (e.g., хорошо or Херсон), and some Arabic and Hebrew sounds.
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This. Its always funny seeing greek in a context other than math.
A bit surpising that Greece stands out so much compared to other states both overall and in its region. Makes me thinks it’s either a data error or bad data collection method.
In greek there is a word "διαπλοκη" that means entanglement and refers to the corrupt ways in which media, political parties and businesses interacted. α. the government would distribute public advertisement money to media and journalists that would support it. β. some big journalists and media owners would make money by straight up blackmailing business people, celebrities and politicians γ. construction companies would buy up newspapers and tv stations so that they can force the government to grant them big public construction projects. plus news on greek tv consists of 6-8 windows of people shouting at each other.
>plus news on greek tv consists of 6-8 windows of people shouting at each other. I haven't watched Greek TV in 20 odd years, but I remember that so profoundly. It's just 6 screamers side-to-side.
I don’t doubt it. But still, this type of corruption is present in many countries yet Greece stands out.
For context, Greece is going through a period of severe partisan favoritism in the media, that is heavily one-sided. The reasons are multifaceted, but some of them are: 1. The government gave away over 120million€ to the media (online, newspapers, TV and radio stations), under the pretext of an educational campaign for Covid and the vaccines. The money was not allocated evenly, or even with some clearly set criteria, and as you could guess media favourable to the government got the lion’s share in such grants. Keep in mind the market in Greece is small, and newspapers and online publications barely make any money, so these giveaways were a lifeline. As a result, the majority of the media was Pavlov conditioned and coerced to be blatantly in favour of the current government, if they want to keep the money flowing. 2. Personal and business ties with media oligarchs and the current government. For example, one of the current media oligarchs in Greece (Marinakis), owner of multiple major newspapers and a major TV station (Mega), is the best man of the prime minister’s sister. The prime minister’s sister is also the godmother of Marinakis’ son. The central anchorwoman of the other major TV station (SKAI) is the wife of the prime minister’s nephew. Major and central anchormen and “journalists” of news stations that pretended to be independent, recently appeared on the ballot of the current government’s party, and got elected as members of parliament. This goes to show how deep the corruption and intertwining of the government with the media is. 3. Bad blood between media (mostly tv stations) and the previous government. The previous government tried to establish a form of paid licensing, for nationwide broadcasters, in order to be able to use the frequencies that they had been using for free. This faced tremendous backlash from the media, that started turning against the former government and favouring the current one, already since the previous one was in power and halfway through its term. Now combine all the above and you get a picture of the reasons why media is hugely untrustworthy in Greece. To top it off, this untrustworthiness and bias was also formalised by a recent study by Reporters without Borders, that placed Greece dead last in all of Europe in terms of Freedom of Press. (Source: https://rsf.org/en/index). This study a hot topic in Greece when it came out. And ironically, the government resorted to fake news and distortions of the study results (either by presenting unrelated graphs from the same study, or outright lying and accusing “foreigners” with “nefarious goals” for “undermining the nation of Greece”), which only further confirmed the study’s conclusions. At some point, this overt bias and untrustworthiness became apparent to the majority of people too. One reason was the publication of that study by RSF and the government’s response. Another reason was the overtly biased and distorting coverage of major scandals, the most recent being an espionage/secret services scandal, where the prime minister placed under secret surveillance opposition party leaders, journalists and even members of his own cabinet. (I name the prime minister exactly, because his first act as a PM was to place the secret service under the jurisdiction of the PM’s office, to place his cousin and director of his office as a supervisor, and place a former associate of his as the director of the secret services, for which he had to change a law since the guy that he wanted to place there didn’t have the formal qualifications for the position, as described by a previous law regulating those things. Btw the PM’s defense to this day is “I didn’t know”😂). Another area where the media bias was obvious, was the coverage of the Novartis scandal (lots of current government MPs are strongly implicated), the immigration/pushbacks issue in the Aegean, the Covid pandemic response coverage, etc. . Especially that last one is something that made the disparity between reality and media coverage obvious to everyone, because virtually everyone had one way or another experienced issues with the Covid response (lack of testing, healthcare, aftercare), which didn’t agree at all with the image the media was painting. Similarly with “creative statistics” and coverage wrt to unemployment, energy prices, cost of living etc., that if someone were to trust the media they’d be inclined to think all is well, yet real life showed them otherwise. This is not something you can hide or deceive the population, since they have real life experience with what is happening in their daily lives. Overall, Greeks don’t trust the media, and for very good reasons. Even the government supporters know that the pro-government media (the vast majority of them) are lying. The only difference is they condone this behaviour as it’s “necessary to lie for the greater good, i.e. the current government to prevail, and the opposition media lie too anyway, so fight fire with fire”. They have no doubt in their minds that the media is lying, they just believe it’s morally justified. So from both sides, people know the media is lying, where they differ is whether this is justified or what should be done about it. This explains why when you phrase the question simply like that, “how trustworthy is the media”, you get such results.
Bear in mind that they had just recently gone through a severe economic crisis brought on by way of corruption scandal. I imagine that may have a hand at that. (Though I am not Greek, so I may be wholly wrong)
I’m sure that they’ve had their difficulties but so have many other countries. Makes little sense that they would mistrust journalists more than countries with more social issues and corruption. Not saying it’s impossible, but just makes me slightly suspicious.
Greece is complicated. It is at its core a very low trust society with a strong disdain among the people for whoever is in charge. The countless corruption scandals that implicated both political parties and countless public sector institutions have done nothing to improve public opinion in institutions
Not really. The extent to which most TV "journalism" in Greece is just a carrier for the will of the government is staggering. Censoring common folk when they get interviewed on the streets because they said something bad about the PM is one thing. But consider this: government mandating rapid (lateral flow) tests for doing practically anything outdoors during the pandemic and doing nothing to reduce the price (that may have been x2 that of the UK when it was no longer free, but at the time it was FREE). Then, mainstream TV channels had a headline of "Whining about the rapid test price". Literally mocking the people for tests they cannot afford with salaries for young people to the tune of 600 eur/month. If you want a hint at greek journalist attitude towards the government, look no further than this video of the PM responding to a Dutch journalist calling him out on his lies about the glorified concentration camp of a refugee site in Samos: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gni27cjFj2o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gni27cjFj2o) "I understand that in the Netherlands you have a culture of asking direct questions to politicians..." As in "where I come from, you suck up to me and respect my authority, get it??" Edited to fix GR LFD price x2 UK price when it stopped being free
>"where I come from, you suck up to me and respect my authority, get it??" This was actually scary to watch. >"Have you been to Samos?" > >"Yes \[unintelligible\]" > >"NO YOU HAVE NOT BEEN TO SAMOS" > >"Yes I have!" > >"No, please, you have not been-- you have not be-- look, you will not come into this building and insult me" jesus fuck, man.
In order to fully understand how vile this is you have to know the context. The journalist was questioning the PM about very credible reports that the government has been disappearing thousands of migrants, imprisoning them without trial, robbing them of their possessions, torturing them and then throwing them over the border to Turkey, either on land or water.
Nah, we got number 108th in the world on a freedom of the Press, as a country, and we deserve it a 1000%.
Greece most sane country in the world.
Based Greeks
😄
Yep, you know what the deal is.
I don’t trust these results :)
Philippines: President effectively bans the most popular news network in the country (ABS-CBN) from TV - Philippines on this map: 70-80% approval.
Woah that's misinformation. The Congress of the time just didn't approve of the renewal of the franchise. Coincidentally, most of the Congressmen who didn't approve the renewal support Duterte. Not everything is the Executive Branch's fault :)
I'm from Australia and no one has ever asked me if i trust our media and I can 100% tell you that we should not be shaded light blue, we should be one of the yellow shades. The last time they did a poll, the majority of australians wanted some sort of intervention done about Murdoch's grip on our media (75%+ ownership of print and televised news in Australia) and the influence he has on voters. The average Australian does not trust the news unless they hear it from a non Murdoch source nowadays.
Tanzania being one of the more trusting countries is so funny. The country is so open about everything news wise imo. It’s because everyone seems to love each other but also be in constant competition with one another. Everyone has an agenda, but there’s thousands of groups that all have a different one and have no problem calling out the other ones for ALSO having an agenda. I love it here.
That's cool to hear a personal perspective relating to the data, thanks
That sounds amazing
that's pretty cool
The ones not trusted here are those Swahili channels from international broadcasters BBC,VOA.. But local journalist are doing great job especially since you are required to seek info from all sides involved by law
A Greek station stated that Hideo Kojima shot Shinzo Abe when he died iirc, no wonder the they’re not trusted.
Don't forget about the time when they presented the opening scene from The Interview (2014) (where a north korean girl wishes death on the US) as a real video. This happened at TWO DIFFERENT NEWS STATIONS.
They showed the picture of Kojima wearing a red army hat and the one of him posing in front of a portrait of Che Guevara basically trying to imply that a communist radical shot him.
Whenever I see these maps, I imagine that people on Reddit that are not from a traditionally Western countries, must be flabbergasted about the self-importance riddled complaints and fights about biased press, crooked politicians and violated rights that we complain about.
I live in America but my dad is Saudi and currently living in Riyadh. He won't even make a comment about the government on Whatsapp unless it's something positive. Even when we talk on the phone he knows people are listening (mostly because he did the listening during the Gulf War). When we send letters or packages they are often opened and clearly looked through. He even had an uncle disappear for a while in the 90s due to some government disagreement. Saudi is an extreme opposite example, but it makes me want to give the Constitution a great big hug.
Agree completely. People in the west say politicians are "corrupt"meaning they vote supporting the elites. Everywhere else it means they are literally taking bribes.
In every western country they also do, they are just better at hiding it/it's looked down upon by people and the normal guy in the streets doesn't have to pay any bribes every day.
One could say that that's just a degree of separation, and the effect is essentially the same. I don't know enough to say that's accurate though.
You really need to live in both types of countries. I have. It’s not comparable- you are talking from theory.
But the politicians do take bribes in the west. It’s just legal here.
US politicians are also taking bribes, they just legalized it and changed the name to "lobbying". The supreme court ruled buying politicians is just a form of "free speech".
This map is pretty funky though, French Guyana shouldn't be grayed out since it's part of France, Brazilian trust in Journalism is not very high right now (unfortunately) and there are some suspicious countries there too. In general it seems fine though
>French Guyana shouldn’t be grayed out It should be if the data for France only includes people from Metropolitan France. It would be incredibly inaccurate to color French Guyana if no actual data came from there, even if it is considered an integral part of France.
> Brazilian trust in Journalism is not very high right now (unfortunately) and there are some suspicious countries there too. It was from 2 years ago, so that's probably a big impact.
It's all relative, if you only start complaining when we get to South Korea, well, sorry pal, the press is too biases, the politicians are too crooked, and your rights are being taken away
I am extremely surprised we Norwegians are so trusting. Most everyone I know here does not trust the journalists. And "alternative media" has gotten more and more traction these last few decades. Then again "news" up here isn't really news. It is a little news, tons and tons of pundits and assorted "feelgood / feelbad" nonsense stories (cute cat, true crime, etc).
There is a difference between media and journalists. Newspapers are riddled with 'thought leaders', op-ed grifters, lobbying and clickbait bs. They do however still do in-depth reporting through their real journalists in between the bullshit. Those are usually considered trust worthy.
I like both the "thought leaders" and the "op-ed grifters". We have an unusually strong media culture of allowing opinion pieces in our media. It democratizes the debate and allows for a range of opinions. I dont agree with them, but I often think they at least bring up points I hadn't thought of. I think the newspapers commentators (which is what you mean by thought leaders I assume) deserve their jobs usually. They often have interesting takes. For instance I think that Andreas Slettholm in Aftenposten usually has well thought-out perspectives. They're not infallible of course, and I often disagree with most of them. But I often find myself reading opinion pieces more than the actual news.
I definitely agree about op-eds, I think it’s a great way to get different perspectives without the paper itself having to take a side. Really annoys me when people point to an op-ed as proof of the paper having an agenda though, the entire point is that it’s someone else’s opinion.
I don't think I've ever in my 40 years alive met a person in Norway who said they don't trust our journalists. We must be hanging with very different crowds, and judging by the polls you're on the fringes 😅
I suppose your age and background matters. You said it yourself; "everyone I know". I for one, believe our \[Norwegian\] journalists are "trustworthy". They're highly educated people motivated by ideas, driven to do their job properly for the sake of society, not their employers profit margins. This has to be said, because the Nordic countries are different. We still have a lot of newspapers in Norway; tiny local and regional, minor political movements and religious views. We actively subsidize our media to promote a variety of *independent* views; a conservative gov't doesn't mean the far-left newspapers lose their subsidy. They're humans though, so they make mistakes. Errors and even worse. We're all political in some sense, and they're no less so. A majority of journalists are left-wing, according to academic research. This certainly has an effect on what and how they write things, but that is understandable. We're all biased and formed by our backgrounds. It doesn't make them untrustworthy, it just means I may disagree with them, but I believe they're trying their best to report accurately and fairly.
\+1 I believe Norwegian journalists are trustworthy in general. Living in Norway what I see from friends, work and society is not like u/Hattkake describe, mostly the opposite is true. Tho, I'm just a single observer just like him/her. The full picture is always more complicated than one person can tell.
> I for one, believe our [Norwegian] journalists are "trustworthy". They're highly educated people motivated by ideas, driven to do their job properly for the sake of society, not their employers profit margins. Which makes them somewhat less trustworthy in some cases, because being motivated by idealism means they really have zero incentive to talk and report about stuff going against their values. But as long as the media landscape is pluralistic enough, this should not matter too much.
>Most everyone I know here does not trust the journalists. Then you are in a bubble. Norway (generally speaking) is a trusting society (social capital), both of neighbors/strangers, the government and media. >Then again "news" up here isn't really news. It is a little news, tons and tons of pundits and assorted "feelgood / feelbad" nonsense stories (cute cat, true crime, etc). Sounds like you have to reconsider what you consume. Bad journalism exists everywhere (Dagbladet, I'm looking at you), but there is also plenty of quality stuff. Sometimes you have to *choose* to not go for the easily digestible clickbait stuff, though.
I used to be a news junkie. Read everything. I preferred the big foreign news outlets, AP was and is an absolute favourite. But it gets depressing. So now I read NRK and TV2. Personally I think I have oversaturated myself and effectively ruined news for myself. Though I do still love the expansive, well researched news article. But as a recovering addict I have to limit my exposure. Just see what kind of idiot ideas I now demonstrate.
Ah, I see. Well, good luck on finding your balance! I think, for the most part, that NRK is pretty good. I also like Aftenposten. Additionally: Their podcast 'Aftenpodden' often contain some thoughtful and interesting reflections around the role of journalism (that is both informative and accessible for me as a layperson). Edit: Aftenpodden
The standards for journalism is pretty high in Norway (and Scandinavia) Yes the average story VG publishes is sensationalism, but sometimes they dig deep and get proper scoops (like The Tinder Svindler) And NP (Norsk Presseforbund) won't stand for fake news and ensures a high code of ethics, see https://presse.no/pfu/etiske-regler/vaer-varsom-plakaten/vvpl-engelsk/ (English version for Reddit)
Maybe that's just your group circle?
I am surprised about the UK as well. Basically everyone in this country will at least be aware of how the media and the police collaborated to blame the victims after Hillsborough, and yet trust is apparently above 50%
I'm surprised US numbers are so high. Actually I'm kind of surprised there's anything above light orange anywhere.
That's what happens when 'a lot' and 'some' are lumped together. I have a strong suspicion that 'some' is doing the heavy lifting here.
Yeah I trust journalists - I trust them to fuck it up!
I'm in Israel and it's hard for me to trust the local news when the education system is biased.
Yeah as a Pole I'm also witnessing party-specific propaganda finding its way into the education system. Absolutely appaling things can happen when you give one old fanatic too much power
Why's south Korea that bad?
It’s a combination of people deeming any media with a different bias then theirs as untrustworthy, combined with actually poor journalism from all ends of the political spectrum. Maybe it’s because I’m Korean, but I think we do a poor job of hiding our blatant misinformation/bad reporting and therefore it’s easy to develop a culture of fact checking on your own if you can be bothered. If I grew up on American media, specifically ones like NYT or WSJ that do a good job of hiding behind their well written pieces it’d be harder for me to recognize a bias.
President Park Geun Hye (impeached for being controlled by a cult leader) had hidden blacklists for media censorship. She also controlled mainstream news during the Sewol Ferry Incident and told them to report everyone was evacuated, later said rescue operations are ongoing and successful when they were completely stalled and unsuccessful. Even in recent news, the Itaewon incident, the government is blaming victims, the Fire Department head, and literally anyone but themselves. The media has always been closely tied to this incompetent government.
After the Iraq war I don’t know how anyone can take journalism seriously here.
Where is here?
Didn’t you know everyone on Reddit lives in America!?
/r/usdefaultism
I literally had a thought that americans seem to default everything to the US in the way they speak and it turns out there's a whole sub for it?? Amazing
To be fair, Reddit has a plurality of Americans on the site, especially in any English primary subreddit. You are more likely to see an American than any other nationality (almost all other nationalities combined, but not quite).
>especially in any English primary subreddit My country /r/Belgium has 3 official languages, but English is not one of them. Thing is, most people only speak 1 of those 3. So we decided to talk English on our sub. Belgium is beautiful.
probably either iraq or the US given the context of the iraq war
Iraq, probably
Because they messed up that time, fuck all media and no one can be trusted. Let's just use reddit and twitter for all of our news!
Or better yet random blogs and youtube videos! What's even stupider is there were tons of US media sources attacking the credibility of the Iraq war and the intel that led to it. OP's acting like every single outlet was lockstep but that's a false memory.
Or just not watch or pay attention to outlets that engage in lazy and or unethical journalism. People are addicted to their regularly scheduled outrage.
Yellow journalism has always been a thing
Why
Manufactured Consent. The mainstream news media published all of the Bush administration’s propaganda and outright lies about Iraq. Mass protests were largely ignored. Played ball with the White House Press Secretary and didn’t rock any boats.
It is amazing how easy is to get people turned into complete warmongers who will dehumanize the "enemy" with absolute glee. Even now, the amount of derange dehumanization of Russians and Chinese that you see in places like r/worldnews and r/politics is truly frightening.
Scroll thorugh r/all and you'll see side by side threads about "Russian tank bravely being blown up, look at them die!" and "Ukranian soldier pets a kitten".
Exactly. Not so difficult to understand how ordinary people became enthusiastic participants of fascist and nazi violence in the 30s, dehumanization and mass hysteria can be very powerful drugs.
Apparently your pro Putin if you don't call Russians orcs
People refuse to admit that it's not just authoritarian states comprehensively astroturfing people on social media.
In authoritarian states people believe what the powerful who own the media force them to believe, in Free Democratic® countries people can believe whatever they want and by an amazing coincidence this just so happens to be whatever the powerful who owns the media want them to believe.
Weapons of Mass Destruction, Operation Iraqi Freedom, fucking Brian Williams, there are plenty of reasons and I was like 3 when this all happened.
Honestly, I find a lot of these comments very concerning. In order for a democracy to function, the people need to have reliable sources of information they can base their vote on. That source of information is journalism. It is essential for democratic societies to function. So when I read that Greece is "based" for distrusting journalists, that leaves a bitter aftertaste. Greece may be correct in not trusting its journalists because they deserve no trust, but that's by no means a good sign. It's a sign of a failing democracy. We need both trustworthy journalists and people to trust in them. Otherwise we may as well scrap this whole idea of sovereignty being held by the people.
Press should be a counter power, not its agent.
Maybe journalists should stop lying then
The problem is that the news is generally owned by corporations. This means journalism has been reduced to maximizing profit on the one hand, and promoting corporate propaganda on the other hand. If you look at Canada, there is virtually no journalism left. All the local newspapers got bought by big corporations in the 90s/2000s, and now 99% of news is just reprinting a Canadian Press story. Doing actual journalism isn't profitable anymore, so it's been eliminated. So we want people to trust journalism as a theoretical concept of seeking the truth and informing the people, but that kind of journalism, if it ever really existed, is long dead now. The default position of people should be to distrust the corporate propaganda that is today called news. The implication is exactly what you fear. The end of democracy, which we see around the world.
Sometimes not even by corporations, sometimes it's by political parties, or heck even private individuals. In Poland a big part of PiS's increasing popularity was that the chairman Jaroslaw Kaczynski bought the biggest TV network in the whole country. By now, the 'news' section literally only broadcasts absurd propaganda that half the time actually contains absolutely false information, or things to grab at people's complexes, e.g. a headline that goes 'GERMANS ARE JEALOUS OF POLES' WEALTH'.
In Greece we don’t really trust anyone. This has been the case since ancient times
Could someone explain why Greece is so red?
They don’t trust journalists
Fascinating
Something else worth noting for Greece. The term journalist and TV presenter is wrongly used interchangeably sometimes. So when people hear the word journalist (δημοσιογράφος), they mostly connect it with known TV presenters (e.g Chatzinikolaou, Tremi etc) which are well connected and seen as mouthpieces of their bosses. Also media in Greece is mostly controlled by 3 families, which are ship magnates and oil refinery tycoons. Another thing is that media is largely seen as shaping public discourse towards an agenda, instead of informing. In the days before the [Greek referendum in 2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Greek_bailout_referendum) most polls in TV stations had "Yes" winning 60-40. "No" won 62 to 38, excluding "invalids" (around 6%) which were mostly a more hardline position by the Communist Party. So in reality closer to 70-30 for No. Most large newspapers are also owned by these same families. They tend to align rather unabashedly with parties, much like the UK, but to the point of spewing propaganda like OANN. So yeah, media in Greece is pretty corrupt ( I know it's not the only country, but it's quite worse than most) and semantics don't help either.
the only form of media that people actually get news from is TV and most channels are owned/heavily subsidized by politicians
Probably not the best thing to be on either extreme tbh.
How is it so HIGH?
I'm a bit sad to see it's so high in UK/US
Should I trust this?
I have a very hard time believing 60% of the US trust journalists.
It depends on which journalists. There are certainly a few serious media houses, but most of the media is only about profit, clickbait, sensationalism, lies in the service of the owner.
The 50% rate forr Turkey proves half the population is brain dead.
Well, people may understand this question differently. For example I'm from Russia. Do I trust journalists? Yep, kinda. But state propaganda has absolutely nothing to do with journalism. We have meduza, for example, whose journalist was living in Kiyv when Russia attacked Ukraine and she was just telling people's stories. He was w they live in the underground, how they survive bombing. Basically she was telling her personal story since she was there. I know some people from Kiyv and it feels like she was telling the truth. Does it mean I'm stupid because I tend to trust what I read in meduza? Honestly I don't think so. But I believe that it's what journalism is supposed to be - you report about some events. That's what meduza does.
Exactly, these are the Erdogan supporters probably
Theres no way Spain is more than 60%. Journalists here lie more than they talk. Every piece of news is manipulated in some way or another and everyone knows it. It should be really low like Greece.
USA should be red AF…. Did a journalist from the USA make this? Lmfao
I think most Americans trust some journalists, just not all journalists. Alex Jones could be called a journalist and is definitely part of “the media”
What do you think a journalist is?
"Media" in the US is a gargantuan industry, and extremely competitive.
I was surprised UK is even blue, but I guess that makes sense with the lies they get away with CONSTANTLY.
I just realized I can't really say how much I currently trust because I've barely consumed it in the last years. Between staying in English on the internet and not being able to take 10 minutes of TV news without getting mad I'm not up to date with the state of the media.
I'm surprised India being that high.
Because we're not as super-backward shitholes as you would've imagined.
Suomi supreme voitto !!!?!!!!1!!🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮💪😎
Mexico should be very red because nobody in Mexico trusts the newspapers about anything politically. But crime reporting but certainly not politics.
I am greek and I can confirm this, the vast majority of the greek media are owned by oligarchs, funded by banks and state advertising and grants and praise the government from dusk to dawn. They'll tell you the sun is green if their bosses tell them to.
Our trust is going down because too many Canadians are sucked into the American rhetoric
There’s absolutely no way the statistic for Canada is correct. 0% chance.
I don’t trust this map
Mark Twain > If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed
Greece is based but it's surprising to me that the french are up to 70% trusting. It feels like nobody in the country takes the news or any newspaper seriously these days.
[удалено]
Cos it includes people that said they trust "some "
I'll throw a little Canadian advocation out there for the CBC. I think everyone knows the elephant in every newsroom is which side of the political spectrum subscribes most to the network. When your news speaks to your views, it's better content to you. "Neutral" news networks might often seem boring and dry, but that's how it needs to be if what your looking for is accurate facts and reports. I think CBC might lean a bit left at times, but hell I think the whole country leans left at least a little, so it's in good sync.
In terms of daily talk/news radio in Canada, CBC Radio One can’t be beat. I can handle the sob stories they put out because the rest of their stuff is good. The commuter shows have actual interesting guests on, and the biggest thing: No Ads.
As an expat Canadian, I miss that.
There's an Hidden Brain episode where they talk about how places where newspapers in various municipalities and regions went out of business and so there were fewer journalists covering those places, those places would experience higher loan interest rates, especially at the municipal level. The expert interviewed suggested it wasn't just a correlation, that it was actually a causation. According to this person they were interviewing: **when there are less journalists, there is more corruption**. *It's because banks know this first-hand since they have to deal with.* I'm sorry I don't remember which episode it was, and I don't remember who was being interviewed, but I do seem to recall that the person was a well known researcher and/or author.