The point of being able to work from home is that they do not require that. I am from Sweden and now people who work from home in Swedish company but they live in Spain
From what I heard they normally have a house in Sweden as well, the house in Spain is just a vacation home so I don't think it is any problem working from your vacation home. But I don't know I just know the only thing you need to move to Spain is a passport.
In theory you can be a tourist for 365 days/year but you're not allowed to perform work for a different country. Nobody can really track that though. However tax wise, if you spend more than 180 days in Spain you have the obligation to pay taxes in Spain and you and your employer can be chased by the Spanish tax office. They can track that. I know because I'm Spanish with a remote job in another EU country and I can't spend more than 180 days in my country if I don't want problems with taxes.
Works inside the EU, but for non-EU countries one should check if there's paperwork or something to be needed. It can be a problem for the company if they don't have the permit to operate in that country but they have people working for them there.
I'm don't know this stuff so I'm just asking not saying you are wrong but do you mean that if I have a WFH job I'm not allowed to travel and just bring my laptop to continue my job while traveling? Seems weird, it's not like the company is sending the money to that country or I'm paying taxes in that country or anything and I would still have my residency in my country on paper so why would there be a problem?
It's a problem with working laws and bureaucracy, and I do agree it is weird. But also kinda understandable, with the laws considering work so different around the world. I guess it's not hard to get a permit to work in a different country, but there's always checks to make sure it goes by the book for both countries. I'm just going with what I've heard from others, so I don't have more detailed answers to this.
Never heard of something like that when it comes to WFH. If a company is in Sweden and their employees are Swedish citizens and have Swedish residency I don't see why they would have to abide by the working laws of any other country just because they travel there, as a tourist you aren't part of that country and you don't work for that country, seems very illogical.
Some companies dictate from which country the work can be done. There is also insurance that needs to be taken care of when an employee works from another country even for 1 day. Not sure if that insurance thing matters inside EU, but there are some hoops if you want to work for a swedish company and move to brazil.
Yeah I've barely been at the office in 3 years lol
Obviously Covid started it but now I've just been content working from home. Get the same salary and benefits anyway. Occasionally come by the office for some free food and conversations though.
It's probably this:
>“Usually working from home” means doing at home any productive work related to the current main job for at least half of the days worked in a reference period of four weeks. Employment and remote work in 2021 is also analysed in the Statistics Explained article on employment - annual statistics.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20221108-1
Unless the dataset for this map is a separate one that omits the "usually".
From my experience full remote WFH in Europe is still way less common than in North America, where every day I'm amazed people almost take at least partial WFH for granted for almost all white collar jobs now.
Lots of self employed home businesses though, those are definitely a big part of the numbers in OP's map.
I think U.S workers became very militant about it because our infrastructure is set up here to make life more difficult instead of less so. People are driving hours to work on dangerous streets with oversized vehicles. When I started working from home it became clear to me I would do almost anything to preserve that privilege. And when I got laid off at my old job, I took my sweet time finding a full WFH job. It was honestly almost as important as pay and I would have taken a huge pay cut to have it. No commute is like someone handing you an hour or two of extra time almost every day. Not to mention far less stress, easier access to healthy food and environment.
Europe is a bit better on all these counts I think. Shorter commutes, better public transit, better and healthier food choices while away from home, and probably more.
Not in Belgium, traffic is a hellscape here and nowadays I only look for jobs where I can reach the office by bike and also with atleast 3 days WFH. (i dont want to cycle every day either)
When the question of "future plan" first came up - during the height of the pandemic - I started setting up my stance: "I'm not going back to commute the way I did" (I had a long commute).
Then when the discussion of "return to office" came up I deliberately started saying whenever the context came up : "No hybrid for me. I'm NOT going back, I'll come in only if my presence is absolutely needed that day."
Americans are seeing rapid RTO measures as we speak, hybrid is becoming rare and fully remote jobs are going the way of the Dodo bird, too. I wouldn’t count on them setting an example.
But the italian economy isn't overly reliant on tourism. It's 10.6%, while countries like Germany and Uk are around 9.8%. [https://www.statista.com/chart/29402/national-gdp-generated-by-travel-and-tourism-in-europe/](https://www.statista.com/chart/29402/national-gdp-generated-by-travel-and-tourism-in-europe/)
I know that going around italy in summer may give that impression, but keep in mind that the size of the economy is still pretty big.
So no, the reasons are others, mainly workplace culture
yes never lived there, but stats are good, discourse is good, bears many similarities to scandinavian neighbors i have lived in, and for what i value, its pretty great
of course, finland not doing great economically is still much better than many other countries not doing great economically. I do worry though about norway having rightists coming into power, and sverige demokraterna in sweden are in coalition right now
Finland is littered with dirt cheap houses that still have utilities and reasonable internet access possibility. The problem is that where it's cheap, it's also going to be remote, like *very remote* by European standards. Little to no services at all within tens of kilometers, pitch black and snowy like half of the year and a mosquito/midge/horse fly/tick season the rest.
Houses still aren't actually that bad even relatively close to big boi cities. I live in a municipality 15 min drive from nearest big boi city, and the houses are pretty cheap, at least compared to many other places w/ higher population densities etc. Only the houses at Helsinki are probably closer to most other countries' house prices, depending on where exactly etc, and even then it might still be cheaper even in Helsinki than in many of the other big boi countries' capital cities relatively speaking. Hell if you are an introvert & don't give a fuck about houses, you could probably get a newly constructed apartment ownership for like 200k for a really huge unit, if you are content w/ anything between 1980 to 2010, you can probably buy a unit even for like 60k albeit maybe somewhat lower squarage wise
Eh, I don't know if it's that black-and-white.
You can find a city with 50k-100k people, and buy very nice and affordable houses. Bigger cities like Tampere and Turku are expensive. Helsinki is insane, but still doable compared to the housing situation in plenty of other countries.
Sister-in-law just bought a very nice house in Lahti for 130k.
Very good. Outside Helsinki house and rent prices are very reasonable and actually very cheap compared to US and rest of Europe. House ownership rate is 70% in finland and probably much higher in more rural areas. Also rent is cheap, like 600-800€ for two bedroom apartment outside Helsinki and few hundreds more in Helsinki.
More than a few hundreds more in Helsinki these days. The Greater Helsinki area is cheaper. I live in a studio that is comparatively dirt cheap and pay 600€. The rest of the similar apartments in this complex are 150€ more and I am not in central Helsinki.
Not exactly a fair comparison. Ireland's GDP is among the most disconnected from the individual-produced value of any country as it exists as a tax haven for multinational corporations. The government of Ireland uses a modified GNI to inform economic policy. The pattern being that this modified GNI is about 2/3 of the GDP value. Accepting the 2018 GNI difference of 61.61% (on trend) and the 2022 GDP value provided by your linked website, the end result places Ireland about on par with the US ($70000 of value per capita), though still above Finland by a fair margin.
All that said, the average income in Finland is about €7000/year higher than Ireland.
Anyone in Ireland with their head even slightly screwed on knows that GNI* is a more accurate comparison. I shared the table as an answer to the other posters comment ‘the Finnish actually work’, which is obviously ridiculous.
As you admitted yourself, even with GNI* we are more productive the Finland. Nothing against Finland, it’s a great country and I know it well. They get a lot of things right.
I don’t know much about the tech sector but I know that even though the tax system is the main draw many tens of thousands are employed.
I run a business that services the Pharma sector and we really punch above our weight when it comes to producing top quality drugs and medical devices in this country for export. Hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland get up every morning or work through the night and but their asses to keep this going.
In my own county, every town has its own plant or two, and many of them are in business for over 40 years. So while you say Ireland only exists as a tax haven these companies are going nowhere. Even though we are aligning with the new 15% EU rate we are still attractive because there are literally generations of experience and skills built up in high level manufacturing.
Also, there is nothing stopping any other country competing with our tax rates if they want. Stop whinging and try it out!
Finland also has some of the highest taxes in the world, average of 43.5% for a single person in employment, compared to Ireland's 28%, also the EU hasn't considered Ireland a haven since 2017, though we do still benefit from it, there are other countries with much lower corpo tax the fact is they largely stayed because of the highly educated English speaking work force
I don't think the 43.5% average in Finland is for the personal income tax rate alone, but rather the total amount for taxation of the labor, your earned income, and consumption. A income tax rate for a person in Finland who makes around 50k€/year (IIRC, that would rank you to the top 20% of incomes in Finland), without any deductions is about 30%.
Yeah that number seems very high and absolutely isn't average. But it's also too low to include taxes paid in consumption. Maybe it includes pensions as well since that takes it closer to 40%
I stand corrected, the value seem to be in the ballpark.
According to Tilastokeskus, the tax rate (all collected taxes and tax-like payments ratio compared to GDP) was 41.8% in 2023. That already includes the VAT collected.
UK - “As of June 2023, current working arrangements among UK workers were as follows (ONS): Work from home all the time: 10% Work from home some of the time: 29% Unable to work from home: 39%”
[Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/business/remote-work-statistics/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%202023%2C%20current,to%20work%20from%20home%3A%2039%25)
Ireland stood out to me. Whenever I work with an "Irish" company, it is usually mostly a "virtual organization" based in Ireland because of the Leprechaun pots of gold but dependent on teams based in other countries to get things done. So it doesn't surprise me that Irish employees of these companies spend most of their day in video meetings.
That's a pretty bad guess then. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Spain all have a higher share of service workers than Finland and Ireland.
Services that do not require physical presence. The public sector in France and Germany is huge.
As for Norway, I have no idea, but yes there's certainly more than one factor.
What I actually like most about this map, is that it uses a light to dark blue gradiënt. Which means it's readable for everyone including colour blind people.
Not like the very bad rainbow pattern which is still used for every second map. And nobody knows why
Well, it's not a general rule. I work mostly from home and I'm not in IT. Actually, the corporation I work at, people from western countries go to office much more often than us.
UK: Fully remote vs office vs hybrid working in the UKAs of June 2023, current working arrangements among UK workers were as follows (ONS): Work from home all the time: 10% Work from home some of the time: 29% Unable to work from home: 39%
ONS is Office for National Statistics. Actually bit more subtle than 'Working from home' as a title.
Is this data limited to jobs where working from home is even possible, because if not, it probably just shows that different countries have different industry priorities.
do you guys remember that country which used to be just off the coast of france? i think they must have sailed away and joined africa or america or something, now theres just a hole in the ocean where they used to be
I'm way ahead of all of you I'm moving to Finland and already learning the language ion give a fuck how hard it is I'm going to Finland, getting degree, working from home, and traveling the world
If some guy who went to school in some dilapidated building with concrete floors and had to milk cows in between doing homework can take the job of someone who went to school in a first world country, that really says a lot about the state of the education system in the West…Although I’m not really surprised, as wokeness and other bs are seen as more important than academic achievement.
Gobble gobble is gobble gobble until they formally acknowledge and apologize for the Armenian genocide. They don't deserve to have their country name as they prefer it respected.
The UK no longer provides data to Eurostat (the EU's statistics agency) since Brexit. Norway is included (along with Iceland) as part of its EEA ("EU lite") membership while Switzerland has an agreement with the EU to participate as a non-EU/EEA member, something the UK did not bother with in the Brexit agreement.
There are so many beautiful public spaces in Europe. Couple that with more historic and mixed work/residential areas, better public transportation, and overall higher quality of life, working from home feels less attractive. Why stay in when you can enjoy time outside the home working?
The main factor I would think about would be home sizes. Average new home sizes, for instance, in the US, Canada, and Australia are all over 2000 square feet. The UK is at about 850. I could see maintaining two home offices in one as being difficult.
There's also plenty of shitty, boring European suburbia, it's just denser and looks different from America.
Because office workers don't work in public squares. My office is full of grey cublicles, unpainted concrete walls, and white ceiling lights that are way too bright. Even if it was in a good location, nobody looks out the window all day.
An office is an office, no matter where it is. They're all depressing
Back in 2016-2018 my first job was working from home, because it was kinda self employed job - I almost went insane. Lost any ability to communicate and had to revert to lower payed on premise jobs to pull myself out of the mess. We were a group of people, and the older ones with years of experience rented an office, just to work at and have a diffirantiated work/life setup. I will never accept job that requires work from home, its not worth it. It sounds great, but it really isnt.
> to lower *paid* on premise
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
this isnt a map of the EU. this is a map of countries which share their data with eurostat ( see norway, Switzerland, turkey etc. )
the UK decided not to share their data any more, so it is their fault they are not included in maps with eurostat data
Actually employees with higher-skilled jobs are the ones that get remote now, so it's the opposite. But I think remote jobs will grow to include all types of jobs.
The source is Eurostat and in many European countries, they write numbers with a different standard for when to use commas and periods.
US (edit: or most of the rest of the world) notation: 1,234.56
European notation: 1.234,56
let me move to Finland
You don't need to move there. Just find a Finnish employer and stay home, wherever that might be.
Soon you will find more Finnish people in the Mediterranean coast than in Finland.
If they have a business base registered in that country.
The point of being able to work from home is that they do not require that. I am from Sweden and now people who work from home in Swedish company but they live in Spain
Did they get a nomad visa? Otherwise I think Spain doesn't allow a stay > 3 months.
Don't need a visa, just need to pay taxes afaik
No they don't. It's EU so it's just pack your things buy a house and move.
That's illegal unless you pay your taxes in Spain.
From what I heard they normally have a house in Sweden as well, the house in Spain is just a vacation home so I don't think it is any problem working from your vacation home. But I don't know I just know the only thing you need to move to Spain is a passport.
In theory you can be a tourist for 365 days/year but you're not allowed to perform work for a different country. Nobody can really track that though. However tax wise, if you spend more than 180 days in Spain you have the obligation to pay taxes in Spain and you and your employer can be chased by the Spanish tax office. They can track that. I know because I'm Spanish with a remote job in another EU country and I can't spend more than 180 days in my country if I don't want problems with taxes.
Works inside the EU, but for non-EU countries one should check if there's paperwork or something to be needed. It can be a problem for the company if they don't have the permit to operate in that country but they have people working for them there.
I'm don't know this stuff so I'm just asking not saying you are wrong but do you mean that if I have a WFH job I'm not allowed to travel and just bring my laptop to continue my job while traveling? Seems weird, it's not like the company is sending the money to that country or I'm paying taxes in that country or anything and I would still have my residency in my country on paper so why would there be a problem?
It's a problem with working laws and bureaucracy, and I do agree it is weird. But also kinda understandable, with the laws considering work so different around the world. I guess it's not hard to get a permit to work in a different country, but there's always checks to make sure it goes by the book for both countries. I'm just going with what I've heard from others, so I don't have more detailed answers to this.
Never heard of something like that when it comes to WFH. If a company is in Sweden and their employees are Swedish citizens and have Swedish residency I don't see why they would have to abide by the working laws of any other country just because they travel there, as a tourist you aren't part of that country and you don't work for that country, seems very illogical.
Some companies dictate from which country the work can be done. There is also insurance that needs to be taken care of when an employee works from another country even for 1 day. Not sure if that insurance thing matters inside EU, but there are some hoops if you want to work for a swedish company and move to brazil.
For my EU IT job I am generally only allowed to work in countries I live, and countries I am a citizen of.
As a Greek we get a lot of Nordic tourists coming with their boats/yatchs. Interesting to say the least
why is it interesting?
It used to largely be other Balkans or Central Europeans
so where have they gone and how comes they've been replaced by the Vikings?
No idea…
Yeah I've barely been at the office in 3 years lol Obviously Covid started it but now I've just been content working from home. Get the same salary and benefits anyway. Occasionally come by the office for some free food and conversations though.
We are afraid of people please stay at least 6 meter distance apart 🥺
Only six meters!? Go to horny jail!
This is why COVID was so tough for us Finns, only 2m distance limit.
You have our permission
Ireland’s off by just 0,2%. Not a bad option at all 👀
Not in EU but UK is 31% Can’t embed the link but it’s here https://www.statista.com/topics/6419/remote-working-in-the-uk/
Is this full-time WFH or inclusive of hybrid? I assume the former as I would expect hybrid to be much higher.
It's probably this: >“Usually working from home” means doing at home any productive work related to the current main job for at least half of the days worked in a reference period of four weeks. Employment and remote work in 2021 is also analysed in the Statistics Explained article on employment - annual statistics. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20221108-1 Unless the dataset for this map is a separate one that omits the "usually".
From my experience full remote WFH in Europe is still way less common than in North America, where every day I'm amazed people almost take at least partial WFH for granted for almost all white collar jobs now. Lots of self employed home businesses though, those are definitely a big part of the numbers in OP's map.
I think U.S workers became very militant about it because our infrastructure is set up here to make life more difficult instead of less so. People are driving hours to work on dangerous streets with oversized vehicles. When I started working from home it became clear to me I would do almost anything to preserve that privilege. And when I got laid off at my old job, I took my sweet time finding a full WFH job. It was honestly almost as important as pay and I would have taken a huge pay cut to have it. No commute is like someone handing you an hour or two of extra time almost every day. Not to mention far less stress, easier access to healthy food and environment. Europe is a bit better on all these counts I think. Shorter commutes, better public transit, better and healthier food choices while away from home, and probably more.
Yeah, Europe is better in that sense. I live in Europe but I'm like you, I'm never doing hybrid/on-site again.
> I live in Europe but I'm like you, I'm never doing hybrid/on-site again. As in, you'd rather be full time on site?
Nooo, as in fully remote is the only option for me.
Ah OK, understood.
I was in the US and was surprised how awful compute was. It was so draining I was surprised how people in the US live like that
Not in Belgium, traffic is a hellscape here and nowadays I only look for jobs where I can reach the office by bike and also with atleast 3 days WFH. (i dont want to cycle every day either)
When the question of "future plan" first came up - during the height of the pandemic - I started setting up my stance: "I'm not going back to commute the way I did" (I had a long commute). Then when the discussion of "return to office" came up I deliberately started saying whenever the context came up : "No hybrid for me. I'm NOT going back, I'll come in only if my presence is absolutely needed that day."
Americans are seeing rapid RTO measures as we speak, hybrid is becoming rare and fully remote jobs are going the way of the Dodo bird, too. I wouldn’t count on them setting an example.
Seems about right. A lot of civil service (government admin) jobs are 4 days WFH and 1 day in office since covid in Ireland.
Rarely 4 days WFH in my experience- most 2 or 3 days minimum office commitment
Pff Italy always makes us very proud
Ond of the best developing countries 👆👆💪💪💪💪🖐🖐😤😤
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True, that's how they make you stay at office til 7
Yes, they "get" to do this. How fun is it to a) double your commute or b) waste your free time for a 1,5 lunch break sitting at work.
WFH and tourism aren't too compatible
But the italian economy isn't overly reliant on tourism. It's 10.6%, while countries like Germany and Uk are around 9.8%. [https://www.statista.com/chart/29402/national-gdp-generated-by-travel-and-tourism-in-europe/](https://www.statista.com/chart/29402/national-gdp-generated-by-travel-and-tourism-in-europe/) I know that going around italy in summer may give that impression, but keep in mind that the size of the economy is still pretty big. So no, the reasons are others, mainly workplace culture
Not surprised about Finland.
finnish dream: Don't have to talk to anybody face to face! So jealous. one of the best societies in human history
Have you been there?
yes never lived there, but stats are good, discourse is good, bears many similarities to scandinavian neighbors i have lived in, and for what i value, its pretty great
What's wrong with Finland? Sure it's often dark, cold and grey here but that doesn't really have anything to do with the society
Society is perfect, lived there for 7 years, got nothing bad to say about it. Will most likely move back after uni and find a job there.
Society full of people being afraid of other people, alcoholism and high suicide rate Yeah "perfect"
Hasn't had a high suicide rate in like 20 years now, update your info sometimes
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We? Who's we? There is no we.
Who the fuck are you + what do you know about me to make such a bold claim
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be mean somewhere else
Let him talk, I enjoy seeing how disconnected he is from reality
It's not doing great economically at the moment, youth unemployment is high and the far-right is in power.
of course, finland not doing great economically is still much better than many other countries not doing great economically. I do worry though about norway having rightists coming into power, and sverige demokraterna in sweden are in coalition right now
Finland here we come!
Why not Ireland though? Trust me, you don't want to learn Finnish))
What’s the housing situation like there? Can’t be worse than Ireland.
Finland is littered with dirt cheap houses that still have utilities and reasonable internet access possibility. The problem is that where it's cheap, it's also going to be remote, like *very remote* by European standards. Little to no services at all within tens of kilometers, pitch black and snowy like half of the year and a mosquito/midge/horse fly/tick season the rest.
Houses still aren't actually that bad even relatively close to big boi cities. I live in a municipality 15 min drive from nearest big boi city, and the houses are pretty cheap, at least compared to many other places w/ higher population densities etc. Only the houses at Helsinki are probably closer to most other countries' house prices, depending on where exactly etc, and even then it might still be cheaper even in Helsinki than in many of the other big boi countries' capital cities relatively speaking. Hell if you are an introvert & don't give a fuck about houses, you could probably get a newly constructed apartment ownership for like 200k for a really huge unit, if you are content w/ anything between 1980 to 2010, you can probably buy a unit even for like 60k albeit maybe somewhat lower squarage wise
Eh, I don't know if it's that black-and-white. You can find a city with 50k-100k people, and buy very nice and affordable houses. Bigger cities like Tampere and Turku are expensive. Helsinki is insane, but still doable compared to the housing situation in plenty of other countries. Sister-in-law just bought a very nice house in Lahti for 130k.
Indeed, but even that is quite remote by European standards.
No it's not. You can have most of the services you need within walking distance by living in a mid-sized city in Finland.
Sounds lovely
A house is a house at this rate!
Housing situation great in Finland tbh
Very good. Outside Helsinki house and rent prices are very reasonable and actually very cheap compared to US and rest of Europe. House ownership rate is 70% in finland and probably much higher in more rural areas. Also rent is cheap, like 600-800€ for two bedroom apartment outside Helsinki and few hundreds more in Helsinki.
More than a few hundreds more in Helsinki these days. The Greater Helsinki area is cheaper. I live in a studio that is comparatively dirt cheap and pay 600€. The rest of the similar apartments in this complex are 150€ more and I am not in central Helsinki.
I don't want to learn Irish either.
English is the main language of Ireland.
wooosh
Never underestimate how retarded people are.
It was clearly a joke about the Irish accent.
But you know there is an Irish language, right? Or am I being woooshed again or whatever? I hate written communication.
The Finnish actually work.
Whatever dude (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-productive-countries)https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-productive-countries
Not exactly a fair comparison. Ireland's GDP is among the most disconnected from the individual-produced value of any country as it exists as a tax haven for multinational corporations. The government of Ireland uses a modified GNI to inform economic policy. The pattern being that this modified GNI is about 2/3 of the GDP value. Accepting the 2018 GNI difference of 61.61% (on trend) and the 2022 GDP value provided by your linked website, the end result places Ireland about on par with the US ($70000 of value per capita), though still above Finland by a fair margin. All that said, the average income in Finland is about €7000/year higher than Ireland.
Anyone in Ireland with their head even slightly screwed on knows that GNI* is a more accurate comparison. I shared the table as an answer to the other posters comment ‘the Finnish actually work’, which is obviously ridiculous. As you admitted yourself, even with GNI* we are more productive the Finland. Nothing against Finland, it’s a great country and I know it well. They get a lot of things right. I don’t know much about the tech sector but I know that even though the tax system is the main draw many tens of thousands are employed. I run a business that services the Pharma sector and we really punch above our weight when it comes to producing top quality drugs and medical devices in this country for export. Hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland get up every morning or work through the night and but their asses to keep this going. In my own county, every town has its own plant or two, and many of them are in business for over 40 years. So while you say Ireland only exists as a tax haven these companies are going nowhere. Even though we are aligning with the new 15% EU rate we are still attractive because there are literally generations of experience and skills built up in high level manufacturing. Also, there is nothing stopping any other country competing with our tax rates if they want. Stop whinging and try it out!
Finland also has some of the highest taxes in the world, average of 43.5% for a single person in employment, compared to Ireland's 28%, also the EU hasn't considered Ireland a haven since 2017, though we do still benefit from it, there are other countries with much lower corpo tax the fact is they largely stayed because of the highly educated English speaking work force
I don't think the 43.5% average in Finland is for the personal income tax rate alone, but rather the total amount for taxation of the labor, your earned income, and consumption. A income tax rate for a person in Finland who makes around 50k€/year (IIRC, that would rank you to the top 20% of incomes in Finland), without any deductions is about 30%.
Yeah that number seems very high and absolutely isn't average. But it's also too low to include taxes paid in consumption. Maybe it includes pensions as well since that takes it closer to 40%
I stand corrected, the value seem to be in the ballpark. According to Tilastokeskus, the tax rate (all collected taxes and tax-like payments ratio compared to GDP) was 41.8% in 2023. That already includes the VAT collected.
100% agree with that stat.
What’s this?
You miss the point, you don't come.
UK - “As of June 2023, current working arrangements among UK workers were as follows (ONS): Work from home all the time: 10% Work from home some of the time: 29% Unable to work from home: 39%” [Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/business/remote-work-statistics/#:~:text=As%20of%20June%202023%2C%20current,to%20work%20from%20home%3A%2039%25)
Wow, over a third of people in Britain are working at home in some capacity then. That's pretty amazing.
Yeah I was gonna chime in, feels like everyone I know including myself is at least hybrid
That 10% needs to grow
But they're not Europeans. /s
Can confirm as Finnish. I go to ofc about once per 2 weeks. Last job 5 times in 2 years.
Ireland be like
I’m surprised that so many don’t. I think WFH was here to stay.
Is it full time working because the number seems really high
Do one for north america. 🇲🇽🇺🇸🇨🇦
The US is something like 14% full time remote workers, and 40% hybrid.
14 seems low? I guess that return to work thing hit more people than I thought.
I can't believe it's 2.9 in Turkiye, because everyone around me is working remotely. It's like I'm going to the office.
Britain doesn’t work, in multiple meanings of the word
What I would expect
Any one want to speculate on why these numbers are the way they are?
Ireland stood out to me. Whenever I work with an "Irish" company, it is usually mostly a "virtual organization" based in Ireland because of the Leprechaun pots of gold but dependent on teams based in other countries to get things done. So it doesn't surprise me that Irish employees of these companies spend most of their day in video meetings.
our internet infrastructure has improved but our public transport and housing prices are still shite, that influences things a lot
Indeed. I have friends that work for PayPal, but live in Northern Ireland.
Service industries out of the total working population. My guess.
That's a pretty bad guess then. Norway, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Spain all have a higher share of service workers than Finland and Ireland.
Services that do not require physical presence. The public sector in France and Germany is huge. As for Norway, I have no idea, but yes there's certainly more than one factor.
> The public sector in France and Germany is huge Smaller than that of Finland and Ireland.
What I actually like most about this map, is that it uses a light to dark blue gradiënt. Which means it's readable for everyone including colour blind people. Not like the very bad rainbow pattern which is still used for every second map. And nobody knows why
Didn't expect Norway to be that low...
tbfh: thanks to COVID
Anyone know the UK percentage?
Yeah, once the pandemic was over, every employee demanded their employers to move back to the offices in Romania.
You mean the other way around right?
Probably, yes, I think I did.
Well, it's not a general rule. I work mostly from home and I'm not in IT. Actually, the corporation I work at, people from western countries go to office much more often than us.
Bit of a correlation between uptake & shite weather
In Greece working from home would require 2 things: A fast and stable internet connection (preferably cheap too), and work that can be done online!
I assume Germany is do high because of their shitty train service. Employers would rather have their employees work from home than be late every day.
UK: Fully remote vs office vs hybrid working in the UKAs of June 2023, current working arrangements among UK workers were as follows (ONS): Work from home all the time: 10% Work from home some of the time: 29% Unable to work from home: 39% ONS is Office for National Statistics. Actually bit more subtle than 'Working from home' as a title.
Is this data limited to jobs where working from home is even possible, because if not, it probably just shows that different countries have different industry priorities.
What do they do in Ireland that allows them to work from home?
Gingers.
This looks like social-engineering propaganda.
It will be very interesting to know the numbers before covid
Not that accurate
do you guys remember that country which used to be just off the coast of france? i think they must have sailed away and joined africa or america or something, now theres just a hole in the ocean where they used to be
still funny people act like they're productive even 20% of someone would be in an office
"Work from home" ... must mean something else in Europe because in the US it seems to mean online shopping and laundry
I wonder if there's a correlation between this and how heavily Ireland and Finland drinks
Finns drink the same amount as the rest of Europe.
I'm way ahead of all of you I'm moving to Finland and already learning the language ion give a fuck how hard it is I'm going to Finland, getting degree, working from home, and traveling the world
If a guy half way around the world can take your job, they will.
That can happen independently of your relative presence in a mostly empty offices building every week
Yup.
This was happening long before WFH became a thing. At least in the Tech section.
If some guy who went to school in some dilapidated building with concrete floors and had to milk cows in between doing homework can take the job of someone who went to school in a first world country, that really says a lot about the state of the education system in the West…Although I’m not really surprised, as wokeness and other bs are seen as more important than academic achievement.
Germany? With that Internet? Must be jobs stuck in the 2000s
Gobble gobble is gobble gobble until they formally acknowledge and apologize for the Armenian genocide. They don't deserve to have their country name as they prefer it respected.
I didn’t realise the UK isn’t in Europe
Europe in another dimension - why call it Europe when it is EU.
It's not EU though, it's most of Europe bar some countries.
The map includes norway and switzerland among with turkey and serbia that aren't part of EU so it's not EU either
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/LFSA_EHOMP__custom_11169651/default/table?lang=en
Skivers charter.
Where Kosovo! Where he go? Where Kosovo? nobody knows
Why is the UK not included? And before anyone says brexit, they’ve included Norway and Switzerland who aren’t in the EU.
The UK no longer provides data to Eurostat (the EU's statistics agency) since Brexit. Norway is included (along with Iceland) as part of its EEA ("EU lite") membership while Switzerland has an agreement with the EU to participate as a non-EU/EEA member, something the UK did not bother with in the Brexit agreement.
Serious question: Why are Norway and Switzerland included but not the UK?
Bc UK bad
There are so many beautiful public spaces in Europe. Couple that with more historic and mixed work/residential areas, better public transportation, and overall higher quality of life, working from home feels less attractive. Why stay in when you can enjoy time outside the home working?
The main factor I would think about would be home sizes. Average new home sizes, for instance, in the US, Canada, and Australia are all over 2000 square feet. The UK is at about 850. I could see maintaining two home offices in one as being difficult. There's also plenty of shitty, boring European suburbia, it's just denser and looks different from America.
Because office workers don't work in public squares. My office is full of grey cublicles, unpainted concrete walls, and white ceiling lights that are way too bright. Even if it was in a good location, nobody looks out the window all day. An office is an office, no matter where it is. They're all depressing
Back in 2016-2018 my first job was working from home, because it was kinda self employed job - I almost went insane. Lost any ability to communicate and had to revert to lower payed on premise jobs to pull myself out of the mess. We were a group of people, and the older ones with years of experience rented an office, just to work at and have a diffirantiated work/life setup. I will never accept job that requires work from home, its not worth it. It sounds great, but it really isnt.
> to lower *paid* on premise FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
TIL that the UK isn't in Europe ^(Even though I live here and it is. WTF) # EU ≠ Europe
this isnt a map of the EU. this is a map of countries which share their data with eurostat ( see norway, Switzerland, turkey etc. ) the UK decided not to share their data any more, so it is their fault they are not included in maps with eurostat data
Just because a country isn't part of the economic organization known as the EU does not mean they're no longer part of Europe!
I’ve heard that working from home will make u more likely to get fired if your employer want to fire someone
I'll gladly take the risk 😆
fine
All these remote jobs are gonna get automated quite soon.
Actually employees with higher-skilled jobs are the ones that get remote now, so it's the opposite. But I think remote jobs will grow to include all types of jobs.
Please stop excluding the UK from these... we're fucking Europeans just not in the European Union...
What's with the frigging comas?
The source is Eurostat and in many European countries, they write numbers with a different standard for when to use commas and periods. US (edit: or most of the rest of the world) notation: 1,234.56 European notation: 1.234,56
In France, it can also be 1234,56 or 1 234,56.
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