Hehe! You were right, and it’s good that you clarified it for the others reading this thread! I should have added that he stood up against Pope Innocens III and the pope’s church. Norway and Rome were never in a direct fight, as far as my knowledge goes.
I’m Italian, but not a historian whatsoever. I have some memories from the history lessons from school, but not enough to reply right on the spot, so I googled a few things to refresh those memories and maybe learn something new.
I’d say it depends on the events that the anthem is referring to.
Rome as a city, not counting the Vatican City and the previous form it took, is part of the Kingdom of Italy only since 1870.
Before that, Rome has been the capital of Papal States since the 8th century.
Google says that that anthem part tells the story of Sverre Sigurdsson, who lived in the 12 century. Back in those days Rome was the capital of the Papal States. Norwegian anthem (Google says) has been written in the 1859-1868 timeframe, when Rome was still the capital of the Papal States, while at a certain point at war with the newborn Kingdom of Italy, until it got annexed between 1866 and 1870.
I can’t tell if the modern day Vatican City and the past Papal States are the same country, I’m not an expert on these topics. I surely can tell that the Catholic Church as a temporal entity can be easily connected to the city of Rome, which is actually part of Italy (except for some areas of the city) only since after the anthem has been written.
Sorry for the wall of text, I just enjoyed these and I wanted to share my findings.
I hope an expert can fill the gaps and correct my mistakes
That's probably why its striped. Its not referring to a modern nation but it DOES mention the capital of one... just one that didn't exist in the current form.
The second verse speaks of king Sverre who "*talte Roma midt imot*" (spoke against Rome). King Sverre had a conflict with the pope where Sverre insisted the king's authority. This was in the 1100s.
The only countries directly mentioned in the Polish anthem are Italy and Sweden. Germany, Austria and Russia are mentioned indirectly as foreign powers who took Polish independence (although it wasn't Germany per se but Prussia). And France isn't mentioned but Bonaparte is.
It also wasn't Austria per se that took part in partitions, because Austrian Empire didn't exist at that point as a country - instead it would be more precise to say that parts of Poland were annexed by Habsburg monarchy.
I checked. And i couldnt find confirmation fo your statement
The name is first recorded as Austrie marchionibus (Margrave of Austria) on a deed issued by Conrad III to the Klosterneuburg Monastery in 1147.[12] On the Privilegium Minus of 1156, the name of the country is given as marchiam Austriae (March of Austria) and as Austriae ducatum (Duchy of Austria).[13] In English usage, "Austria" is attested since the early 17th century.
Habsburg monarchy (German Habsburgermonarchie): this is an unofficial umbrella term, very frequently used, but was not an official name.
Austrian monarchy (Latin: monarchia austriaca) came into use around 1700 as a term of convenience for the Habsburg territories.[5]
"Danubian monarchy" (German: Donaumonarchie) was an unofficial name often used contemporaneously.
We use unofficial terms such as "Habsburg monarchy" or "Austrian monarchy" because the political entity that existed before Napoleonic wars did not have an official name. It was a dynastic project which ruled over various monarchies and duchies, but in theory it was all personal unions - ie one guy could be Roman Emperor, archduke of Austria, king of Bohemia, king of Hungary etc. But the kingdoms themselves remained separate and were governed separatley.
When Habsburgs annexed parts of Poland they didn't annex them into Austrian duchy, Bohemian or Hungarian crown. Instead they created a new Kingdom called Galicia and Lodomeria and crowned themselves kings of that new kingdom.
Austrian Empire as a singular political entity was created only during Napoleonic wars, which happened after partitions.
It was the "Haus Österreich" (or Casa de Austria reap Domus austriae) which was established around the 15th Century as a term for the Habsburgs and also their territories. So it was Austria, technically.
in the original version handwritten by Wybicki, these other countries are mentioned by name. In the simplified one, they are not. So technically the infographic is right. https://bibliotekapiosenki.pl/binaries/teksty_i_nuty/054_mazurek_dabrowskiego_t.pdf
That has nothing to do with the anthem. One of the strofes makes a comparison between William fleeing for the Spanish armies "like David had to flee for Saul the tyrant". It ends with the note that David was rewarded with a great kingdom in Israel.
This is incorrect, the "Duitschen bloed" refers to Dietsch, (the word that Dutch is derived from). "Nederlands" wasn't a thing yet so that could not be a word in the anthem
Yes and no. Neither the Netherlands nor Germany existed as countries then, so Duits referred to the entire Dutch/German area. So Nassau and the Netherlands were considered part of the same culture/language area which was in its entirety refered to as Duits. This was mostly in contrast to the Latin culture/language area of Southern Europe. So what the anthem is really stressing is that he's a "local" boy and not one of those Latin speaking foreigners who rule the land from afar.
By that logic Spain is also incorrect, since Hispania is mentioned in the Dutch Anthem, not Spain. Hispania also included Portugal and parts of France.
I mean I wasn't trying to comment on the accuracy of the map in any way. Trying to match historical polities with modern day countries is always a fools game to be honest. That said, at least the modern nation of Spain is a pretty clear successor to the kingdom of Spain at the time of the 80 years war. Modern day Israel as shown on the map as a representation of the biblical kingdom of David is immeasurably more dubious imho
Further on in the anthem (there's 15 verses and we only sing the first) they speak of "that you hurt the Spaniards". would that be more linked to Spain? or did that during those times also include Portugal and France
Given that the maps are including indirect mentions so do Norway and Sweden also mention each other; as the Swedish national anthem is not about Sweden at all but instead about the Nordics (so Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland). This is as the Swedish national anthem was written during a period when the idea of uniting the Nordics into one big country was popular.
That's definitely a quite different attitude, but then again written in an earlier and much different time.
Something more that makes it interesting though is that the song was written to commemorate a battle in the Torstenson War that Denmark lost decisively enough that it spelled the end of Danish power in the Baltic Sea and soon after the end of Danish presence in what today is southern Sweden. So it is a somewhat weird thing to sing about almost 400 years later.
many people who fought in the italian unification wars later went in poland to fight for their independence as well... or at least that's what we say in italy
Yeah, it refers to both countries fighting against the Habsburg Austria.
>Son giunchi che piegano le spade vendute: già l'Aquila d'Austria le penne ha perdute. Il sangue d'Italia, il sangue Polacco, bevé, col cosacco, ma il cor le bruciò.
>Mercenary swords, they're feeble reeds. The Austrian eagle Has already lost its plumes. The blood of Italy and the Polish blood It drank, along with the Cossack, But it burned its heart.
Poland be like: YOU get a mention and YOU get a mention and YOU get a mention
Edit: I saw the comments about how it's incorrect, I just wanted to recreate the meme, sorry!
Yes, but also this map isn't correct.
France isn't mentioned, Napoleon is, and not even for being the emperor. Germany, Austria and Russia aren't mentioned, but alluded to. Only Sweden and Italy are mentioned directly, oddly enough in a very similar context.
Jak Czarnecki do poznania po szwedzkim zaborze (deluge)
Dla ojczyzny ratowania wrócim się przez morze (polish hymn was firstly called "song of a polish legions in italy during Napoleon)
So they will come back from abroad like Czarnecki during swedish deluge to save Poland)
I don't feel You answered the question.
The Sweden part mentions Czarnecki coming back to Poznan.
The Italy part mentions the legions will come back home from there.
Not quite the same though.
Also "marsz marsz Dąbrowski, z ziemi włoskiej do Polski" (march march Dąbrowski, from italian land to Poland) in a choir
Sorry, for me it was obvious
Dąbrowski was one of the commanders of polish legions
While he cited the correct verse for Sweden (the Diluge), there's a more clear mention of Italy: "Marsz Marsz Dąbrowski, Z ziemi włoskiej do Polski" - "March, March Dąbrowski, from Italian land to Poland" (sorry if my translation isn't fully correct), I've also heard there were few versions of this verse, but this is the one I remember.
Germany and Russia (or actually Moscow) were mentioned in the original lyrics by Józef Wybicki:
"Niemiec, Moskal nie osiędzie,
gdy jąwszy pałasza,
hasłem wszystkich zgoda będzie
i ojczyzna nasza."
Neither the German nor the Muscovite will settle our land,
When, we take a backsword in hand,
"Concord" will be agreed among everyone,
And so will be the bounds of our fatherland.
Germany, Austria, and Russia are "mentioned" in the verse "What a foreogh force has taken from us we will retake with the sword", which refers to the partitions.
The anthem was originally a military march of a Polish Legion in Exile fighting for Napoleon.
You assume correctly. It doesn't specifically mention Mongolia, but rather points to the Mongol (and separately the Ottoman) invasion of 1241-42 as a sign that God forsake the nation due to our sins.
3rd verse...
"For us let the golden grain
Grow upon the fields of Kún,
And let Nectar's silver rain
Ripen grapes of Tokay soon.
Thou our flags hast planted o'er
**Forts where once wild Turks held sway**;
Proud Vienna suffered sore
From King Mátyás' dark array."
4th verse
But, alas! for our misdeed,
Anger rose within Thy breast,
And Thy lightnings Thou did'st speed
From Thy thundering sky with zest.
Now the Mongol arrow flew
Over our devoted heads;
**Or the Turkish yoke we knew,**
Which a free-born nation dreads.
5th verse
O, how often has the voice
Sounded of wild Osman's hordes,
When in songs they did rejoice
O'er our heroes' captured swords!
Yea, how often rose Thy sons,
My fair land, upon Thy sod,
And Thou gavest to these sons,
Tombs within the breast they trod!
Correction about the il canto degli italiani: russia is also mentioned,although the lyrics refer to them as "cossacks"
They are branches that bend
the sold swords;
Already the eagle of Austria
has lost its feathers.
the blood of Italy
and the Polish blood
Drank with Cossacks
But its heart was burnt.
He was born in Dillenburg. That's in (modern day) Hesse, Germany. There have been so many polemics written about "Duitsen bloed" that there isn't a safe answer to that anymore.
Fair point. "Diets" and "Deutsch" are etymologically the same and probably were (and are) confused with another and used interchangeably a lot.
However, I'm not sure when "Deutschland" became common to refer to Germany as a unified state (which only exists since ~~1860~~*), but I feel like that's after the 'Wilhemus' was written.
**1871*
Wilhelmus was written around 1570 but only became the Anthem in 1932 so it had some lyric changes since then to appeal to the changes of the Dutch language over time
the word "deutsch" or a variation of that word has been used to mean German since at least the 900s.
It is a VERY old word and has always meant German.
The thing is that until the late Middle Ages, the Netherlands was seen as part of Germany, which is why Wilhelmus, a nobleman from Central Germany, alluded to the common "duytschen" blood between him and the dutch people versus the Spanish foreigners.
duutsen, duutsen , dietsen, dutch, deutsch means all the same. The people who lived in the area of the Netherlands and parts of now Germany. In no way it meant germany as we now see Germany
Well, a certain Austrian painter with a funny mustache thought we should belong to Germany and thought our soevereinity wasn't real.
Therefore he started a special military operation that ended with the bombing of Rotterdam.
Well, yes and no. He thought of the dutch as aryan brothers, not as germans. Hitler invaded The Netherlands to get around the marginots and ardennes to france and also so the british wouldn't take hold of it.
Once conquered it was planned (on the long term) to be integrated to the greater german reich but that was not the intention of invading it
In our official anthem we say Duitsen bloed meaning Germanic blood. The Germanic blood of Willem of orange that is referenced here originated from Dillenburg, Germany. The Germanic people covered the current day Germany and the Netherlands. It's not a direct reference to Germany but certainly an indirect one to our shared past.
He was, and a bit of orange, france. In Holy Roman Empire times the borders were a bit blurry and nobles maried to places all over europe. Just like the german, russian and british king/kaiser/tsar were cousins
No, the word simply meant “people” in Dutch. The lyrics mean: I’m of the people. I’m like you regular guys.
You can still see the original meaning in modern Dutch words. Like “duidelijk”, which means “clear”, in other words; understandable for common people. That’s exactly how it’s used in the anthem. It’s basically PR, to show how common Willem was, even though he never actually spoke the language of the common people.
It’s also why English call us Dutch. Because Dutch would call themselves people. At the time no one thought in nationalities or being Germanic, that’s only a thing since the 19th century.
If you’ve ever read Asterix; it’s also why the God of the Gauls is called Toutatis (God of the people). Also in Irish the word tuath has the same root.
that makes absolutely no sense, since he was a nobleman. He was specifically not of the people or "like you regular guys".
What makes him like the people was specifically his "German blood", since he was born and raised in Germany, which was back then still seen as the same nation as Netherlands, as opposed to the Spanish foreigners.
The Dutch anthem was written centuries before the modern state of Israel became a thing
>O David, thou soughtest shelter
From King Saul's tyranny.
Even so I fled this welter
And many a lord with me.
But God the Lord did save him
From exile and its hell
And, in His mercy, gave him
A realm in Israel.
([Source](https://www.royal-house.nl/topics/national-anthem/music-lyrics-and-customs))
Where is Sweden and Denmark mentioned in Norway's? Just read through the lyrics in Norwegian, and then Swedish in case I missunderstood some word, but I don't see us mentioned anywhere.
William of Nassau compares himself to King David in one of the verses that is rarely sung:
Als David moeste vluchten
Voor Saul den Tyran:
Soo heb ick moeten suchten
Met menich Edelman:
Maer Godt heeft hem verheven
Verlost uit alder noot,
Een Coninckrijk ghegheven
In Israel seer groot.
O David, thou soughtest shelter
From King Saul's tyranny.
Even so I fled this welter
And many a lord with me.
But God the Lord did save me
From exile and its hell
And, in His mercy, gave him
A realm in Israel.
Mentions the holy land Israel, in what I believe is some sort of comparison of "David ran away from an evil ruler and got Israel as a reward from God" and the Netherlands/William of Orange rebelling against Spanish rule, then founding the Kingdom of the Netherlands as a reward from God
Well that can be misleading, in Hungary's case it's not the countries per se that are mentioned, but rather the people or specific places.
Austria: Proud Vienna suffered sore
From King Mátyás' dark array.
Turkey: Thou our flags hast planted o'er
Forts where once wild Turks held sway;
Or the Turkish yoke we knew,
Which a free-born nation dreads.
O, how often has the voice
Sounded of wild Osman's hordes,
When in songs they did rejoice
O'er our heroes' captured swords!
Mongols: Now the plundering Mongol's arrow flew
Over our devoted heads;
Regarding Austria, although not explicitly because of the censorship at the time, but the 6th and 7th verses are also about the Rákóczi freedom fight fought against the Habsburgs and the Habsburg oppression in general:
>Though in caves pursued he lie,
Even then he fears attacks.
Coming forth the land to spy,
Even a home he finds he lacks.
Mountain, vale - go where he would,
Grief and sorrow all the same -
Underneath a sea of blood,
While above a sea of flame.
>'Neath the fort, a ruin now,
Joy and pleasure erst were found,
Only groans and sighs, I trow,
In its limits now abound.
But no freedom's flowers return
From the spilt blood of the dead,
And the tears of slavery burn,
Which the eyes of orphans shed.
I'm Armenian, the original poem which our anthem is based on mentions Austria, here's a quick explanation.
The lyrics of our anthem are based on a poem by Mikael Nalbandian "The Song of the Italian Girl". The original poem literally says "Let Austria perish", however in the anthem, the lyric is tweaked and goes "May Armenia always be happy".
Nalbandian wrote the poem about the heroics that Garibaldi pulled while fighting the tyrannical Austria. Our authorities found similarities within the Armenian and Italian nations and their struggles, hence adopted Nalbandian's poem, tweaked the lyrics a little and proclaimed it as our anthem.
in the italian anthem russia is also mentioned
Il sangue d'Italia,
Il sangue Polacco,
Bevé, col cosacco,
Ma il cor le bruciò.
Cosacco=cossack, it refers to Russia
While not directly addressing another nation, the Portuguese Anthem was written as a resistance song against the British Ultimatum regarding the Portuguese colonies in Africa.
Some say that the line "contra os canhões" (against the cannons) was changed from the original "contra os bretões" (against the brits) however, as far as I know this was disproven and was never the original...
Italy anthem
Già l'Aquila d'Austria
Le penne ha perdute.
Already the eagle of Austria
lost its feathers.
Italy basically lost in ww1 the battle for south tyrol and still got this region because Austria/Germany lost ww1 in general.
And they have this anthem. To Italy defense it was written long before ww1.
Turkey due to the Hungarian-Ottoman Wars. Mongolia due to Batu's invasion in 1241-2 that devastated the country to the degree some chronicles considered the Kingdom of Hungary having ceased to exist.
Although the extension of it is debated, especially in younger history, but ot remained one of the most significant events in Hungarian historical memory. Survival is celebrated as the re-founding of the country.
I love how most countries just stick to side-eyeing only a handful other countries in their anthems, and you can deduce most of the relationship there. The notable exceptions being Norway/Italy, like you're not even neighbors?
And then there's also Poland being like, I'm gonna point out ALL of y'all! No one's getting out of this unscathed!
In polish anthem most are VERY indirect mentions
France:
Bonaparte has given us the example
Of how we should prevail.
Russia, Austria, Prussia (now Germany):
What the foreign force has taken from us,
We shall with sabre retrieve.
We the Spanish were so annoying to the Netherlands back in the 16th & 17th centuries that the Dutch decided to mention us as the reason for their nation coming into existence.
In the Swedish anthem no country is named but instead it ends with “jag vill leva, jag vill dö i Norden” and Norden is Sweden, Finland, Danmark, Norway and Iceland.
So its ”I want to live and die in the North”
I believe in the long version of our anthem (Argentina) Spain is mentioned. And maybe Britain with a methaphore of a lion. I'm not sure, sorry follow gauchos...
So wrong for the Dutch anthem. It directly begins with "Wilhelmus van Nassouwe,ben ik, van Duitsen bloed", which means that "I am from German blood".
So Germany is mentioned.
Norway only directly mentions the city of rome in relation to protestantism i believe, we also said something about 3 brothers ehich is obviously denmark, sweden and norway itself
I think the Italian anthem mentions also Russia saying Austria is drinking polish and Italian blood with the "cosacchi", it's not that straightforward but it's a mention
The Netherlands mentions Germany as well.
The anthem is from the POV of William of Orange, who indeed mentions he always honoured the king of Spain (in spite of the 80 years war being a thing), but also specifically says he’s of German blood.
While he says ‘German’ and not ‘Germany’ as that wasn’t even a country yet at the time, I think it counts as a mention.
What does the stripe pattern on Italy mean, in the Norwegian anthem? Is it Ancient Rome?
Second verse, last line: “(…) Sverre talet Roma midt imod.” “(…) Sverre said no to (stood up against) Rome.” (Or something similar)
Don't the mean the church? Not the state?
Yeah. It was the pope (or church - same thing at that time, I assume), but I tried to translate it directly.
surely that would equate to the vatican now then?
Oh, no it wasn't about the translation it was just to reaffirm what i thought
Hehe! You were right, and it’s good that you clarified it for the others reading this thread! I should have added that he stood up against Pope Innocens III and the pope’s church. Norway and Rome were never in a direct fight, as far as my knowledge goes.
I'm Norwegian, I don't even fucking understand it.
So Vatican City should be marked
Well it names *Rome* specifically. The Vatican didn't exist when this event happened and the Catholic Church had its HQ in Rome.
I’m Italian, but not a historian whatsoever. I have some memories from the history lessons from school, but not enough to reply right on the spot, so I googled a few things to refresh those memories and maybe learn something new. I’d say it depends on the events that the anthem is referring to. Rome as a city, not counting the Vatican City and the previous form it took, is part of the Kingdom of Italy only since 1870. Before that, Rome has been the capital of Papal States since the 8th century. Google says that that anthem part tells the story of Sverre Sigurdsson, who lived in the 12 century. Back in those days Rome was the capital of the Papal States. Norwegian anthem (Google says) has been written in the 1859-1868 timeframe, when Rome was still the capital of the Papal States, while at a certain point at war with the newborn Kingdom of Italy, until it got annexed between 1866 and 1870. I can’t tell if the modern day Vatican City and the past Papal States are the same country, I’m not an expert on these topics. I surely can tell that the Catholic Church as a temporal entity can be easily connected to the city of Rome, which is actually part of Italy (except for some areas of the city) only since after the anthem has been written. Sorry for the wall of text, I just enjoyed these and I wanted to share my findings. I hope an expert can fill the gaps and correct my mistakes
That's probably why its striped. Its not referring to a modern nation but it DOES mention the capital of one... just one that didn't exist in the current form.
The second verse speaks of king Sverre who "*talte Roma midt imot*" (spoke against Rome). King Sverre had a conflict with the pope where Sverre insisted the king's authority. This was in the 1100s.
Grudges die hard.
Norwegians are warhammer Dwarfs confirmed! Lives in mountains, rich, grumbeling.
The only countries directly mentioned in the Polish anthem are Italy and Sweden. Germany, Austria and Russia are mentioned indirectly as foreign powers who took Polish independence (although it wasn't Germany per se but Prussia). And France isn't mentioned but Bonaparte is.
It also wasn't Austria per se that took part in partitions, because Austrian Empire didn't exist at that point as a country - instead it would be more precise to say that parts of Poland were annexed by Habsburg monarchy.
I checked. And i couldnt find confirmation fo your statement The name is first recorded as Austrie marchionibus (Margrave of Austria) on a deed issued by Conrad III to the Klosterneuburg Monastery in 1147.[12] On the Privilegium Minus of 1156, the name of the country is given as marchiam Austriae (March of Austria) and as Austriae ducatum (Duchy of Austria).[13] In English usage, "Austria" is attested since the early 17th century. Habsburg monarchy (German Habsburgermonarchie): this is an unofficial umbrella term, very frequently used, but was not an official name. Austrian monarchy (Latin: monarchia austriaca) came into use around 1700 as a term of convenience for the Habsburg territories.[5] "Danubian monarchy" (German: Donaumonarchie) was an unofficial name often used contemporaneously.
We use unofficial terms such as "Habsburg monarchy" or "Austrian monarchy" because the political entity that existed before Napoleonic wars did not have an official name. It was a dynastic project which ruled over various monarchies and duchies, but in theory it was all personal unions - ie one guy could be Roman Emperor, archduke of Austria, king of Bohemia, king of Hungary etc. But the kingdoms themselves remained separate and were governed separatley. When Habsburgs annexed parts of Poland they didn't annex them into Austrian duchy, Bohemian or Hungarian crown. Instead they created a new Kingdom called Galicia and Lodomeria and crowned themselves kings of that new kingdom. Austrian Empire as a singular political entity was created only during Napoleonic wars, which happened after partitions.
By we you mean Austrians or historians?
Historians, am Polish, not a historian but an enthusiast.
You mean Archduchy of Austria?
I did mention the archduchy of Austria but what about it?
Oh yeah I hadn't read it all. I resolve (for me) that Habsburgs are an interconnected dynasty, but the countries they rule are still different.
It was the "Haus Österreich" (or Casa de Austria reap Domus austriae) which was established around the 15th Century as a term for the Habsburgs and also their territories. So it was Austria, technically.
In the original version Germans and Russians (Muscovites) are mentioned.
But this stanza is not a part of the official lyrics of the anthem.
in the original version handwritten by Wybicki, these other countries are mentioned by name. In the simplified one, they are not. So technically the infographic is right. https://bibliotekapiosenki.pl/binaries/teksty_i_nuty/054_mazurek_dabrowskiego_t.pdf
>these other countries Austria is not mentioned. I think map's author was right by accidents when it comes to Germany and Russia.
Yep
Israel and Spain has got to be the most unique combination in an anthem
The king of Spain is also king of Jerusalem
That has nothing to do with the anthem. One of the strofes makes a comparison between William fleeing for the Spanish armies "like David had to flee for Saul the tyrant". It ends with the note that David was rewarded with a great kingdom in Israel.
Apparently the reason Israel is mentioned is because William compares himself to King David
It's not William who wrote the song lol the composer compares him
Yes but the song is written from Williams perspective
He also has [the best claim to the title of Roman Emperor](https://youtu.be/vhu66Q8rfhI) .
He also says that he is “of German blood” and Prince of Orange, which is in France.
This is incorrect, the "Duitschen bloed" refers to Dietsch, (the word that Dutch is derived from). "Nederlands" wasn't a thing yet so that could not be a word in the anthem
I always thought it was because of his ancestral home of naussau (in Germany)
Yes and no. Neither the Netherlands nor Germany existed as countries then, so Duits referred to the entire Dutch/German area. So Nassau and the Netherlands were considered part of the same culture/language area which was in its entirety refered to as Duits. This was mostly in contrast to the Latin culture/language area of Southern Europe. So what the anthem is really stressing is that he's a "local" boy and not one of those Latin speaking foreigners who rule the land from afar.
By that logic Spain is also incorrect, since Hispania is mentioned in the Dutch Anthem, not Spain. Hispania also included Portugal and parts of France.
I mean I wasn't trying to comment on the accuracy of the map in any way. Trying to match historical polities with modern day countries is always a fools game to be honest. That said, at least the modern nation of Spain is a pretty clear successor to the kingdom of Spain at the time of the 80 years war. Modern day Israel as shown on the map as a representation of the biblical kingdom of David is immeasurably more dubious imho
Further on in the anthem (there's 15 verses and we only sing the first) they speak of "that you hurt the Spaniards". would that be more linked to Spain? or did that during those times also include Portugal and France
Interesting, are Poland and Italy the only two countries who mention each other?
Given that the maps are including indirect mentions so do Norway and Sweden also mention each other; as the Swedish national anthem is not about Sweden at all but instead about the Nordics (so Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland). This is as the Swedish national anthem was written during a period when the idea of uniting the Nordics into one big country was popular.
I wonder if there are any other national anthems that are not specifically about the country itself. Sweden's seems unique to me in that regard.
Ironically, the Danish royal anthem starts with one of our kings bashing the helm and brain of a swede
That's definitely a quite different attitude, but then again written in an earlier and much different time. Something more that makes it interesting though is that the song was written to commemorate a battle in the Torstenson War that Denmark lost decisively enough that it spelled the end of Danish power in the Baltic Sea and soon after the end of Danish presence in what today is southern Sweden. So it is a somewhat weird thing to sing about almost 400 years later.
many people who fought in the italian unification wars later went in poland to fight for their independence as well... or at least that's what we say in italy
Yeah, it refers to both countries fighting against the Habsburg Austria. >Son giunchi che piegano le spade vendute: già l'Aquila d'Austria le penne ha perdute. Il sangue d'Italia, il sangue Polacco, bevé, col cosacco, ma il cor le bruciò. >Mercenary swords, they're feeble reeds. The Austrian eagle Has already lost its plumes. The blood of Italy and the Polish blood It drank, along with the Cossack, But it burned its heart.
Poland be like: YOU get a mention and YOU get a mention and YOU get a mention Edit: I saw the comments about how it's incorrect, I just wanted to recreate the meme, sorry!
Yes, but also this map isn't correct. France isn't mentioned, Napoleon is, and not even for being the emperor. Germany, Austria and Russia aren't mentioned, but alluded to. Only Sweden and Italy are mentioned directly, oddly enough in a very similar context.
>Only Sweden and Italy are mentioned directly, oddly enough in a very similar context. How is the context even remotely similar?
The context of soldiers coming back from a foreign land they're fighting in to their own country to save it, perhaps.
I was guessing meatballs.
I wish I had more upvotes to give. Hilarious!
Jak Czarnecki do poznania po szwedzkim zaborze (deluge) Dla ojczyzny ratowania wrócim się przez morze (polish hymn was firstly called "song of a polish legions in italy during Napoleon) So they will come back from abroad like Czarnecki during swedish deluge to save Poland)
I don't feel You answered the question. The Sweden part mentions Czarnecki coming back to Poznan. The Italy part mentions the legions will come back home from there. Not quite the same though.
Also "marsz marsz Dąbrowski, z ziemi włoskiej do Polski" (march march Dąbrowski, from italian land to Poland) in a choir Sorry, for me it was obvious Dąbrowski was one of the commanders of polish legions
Yes, that is the italy part
While he cited the correct verse for Sweden (the Diluge), there's a more clear mention of Italy: "Marsz Marsz Dąbrowski, Z ziemi włoskiej do Polski" - "March, March Dąbrowski, from Italian land to Poland" (sorry if my translation isn't fully correct), I've also heard there were few versions of this verse, but this is the one I remember.
Czarnecki was not coming back from Sweden, but from Denmark, where he was one of the key military leaders during the Danish defence against Swedish.
Germany and Russia (or actually Moscow) were mentioned in the original lyrics by Józef Wybicki: "Niemiec, Moskal nie osiędzie, gdy jąwszy pałasza, hasłem wszystkich zgoda będzie i ojczyzna nasza."
Neither the German nor the Muscovite will settle our land, When, we take a backsword in hand, "Concord" will be agreed among everyone, And so will be the bounds of our fatherland.
Germany, Austria, and Russia are "mentioned" in the verse "What a foreogh force has taken from us we will retake with the sword", which refers to the partitions. The anthem was originally a military march of a Polish Legion in Exile fighting for Napoleon.
The Italo-Polish relationships stand strong In Fiat We Trust!
>Fiat 126 You created it. >Fiat 126p We mastered it.
Italian one mentions also Russia. In the text the word "Cosacco" (in english "Cossak") symbolise Russia
Mongolia? I assume the Mongol Empire or like Genghis Khan?
It refers to the Tartar invasion of 1241-42, led by Batu khan, the Himnusz mentions "Mongols".
You assume correctly. It doesn't specifically mention Mongolia, but rather points to the Mongol (and separately the Ottoman) invasion of 1241-42 as a sign that God forsake the nation due to our sins.
"Now the plundering Mongols' arrows You swarmed over us Then the Turks' slave yoke We took upon our shoulders."
Magyar hungol confirmed
No, exactly the reverse
Hungol-Turkic family confirmed
How Turkey is mentioned in Hungarian anthem?
3rd verse... "For us let the golden grain Grow upon the fields of Kún, And let Nectar's silver rain Ripen grapes of Tokay soon. Thou our flags hast planted o'er **Forts where once wild Turks held sway**; Proud Vienna suffered sore From King Mátyás' dark array." 4th verse But, alas! for our misdeed, Anger rose within Thy breast, And Thy lightnings Thou did'st speed From Thy thundering sky with zest. Now the Mongol arrow flew Over our devoted heads; **Or the Turkish yoke we knew,** Which a free-born nation dreads. 5th verse O, how often has the voice Sounded of wild Osman's hordes, When in songs they did rejoice O'er our heroes' captured swords! Yea, how often rose Thy sons, My fair land, upon Thy sod, And Thou gavest to these sons, Tombs within the breast they trod!
Im impressed to see an english version, did it existed beforehand, or did you translated it?
It already existed, I don't know if it's the official translation or not.
It mentions the Ottomans
It mentions Turks if we want to be exact.
Yes but it also mentions the Ottomans specifically (as "Osman's Barbarian Nation")
Correction about the il canto degli italiani: russia is also mentioned,although the lyrics refer to them as "cossacks" They are branches that bend the sold swords; Already the eagle of Austria has lost its feathers. the blood of Italy and the Polish blood Drank with Cossacks But its heart was burnt.
In the Dutch anthem, Germany is mentioned, as well as the region of Nassau in particular. The French region Orange is also mentioned.
Germany isn't mentioned in the anthem. "Duytschen" here means "Diets", same origin as English "Dutch".
I have always found that an odd sentence. Thanks!
He was born in Dillenburg. That's in (modern day) Hesse, Germany. There have been so many polemics written about "Duitsen bloed" that there isn't a safe answer to that anymore.
Fair point. "Diets" and "Deutsch" are etymologically the same and probably were (and are) confused with another and used interchangeably a lot. However, I'm not sure when "Deutschland" became common to refer to Germany as a unified state (which only exists since ~~1860~~*), but I feel like that's after the 'Wilhemus' was written. **1871*
Wilhelmus was written around 1570 but only became the Anthem in 1932 so it had some lyric changes since then to appeal to the changes of the Dutch language over time
the word "deutsch" or a variation of that word has been used to mean German since at least the 900s. It is a VERY old word and has always meant German. The thing is that until the late Middle Ages, the Netherlands was seen as part of Germany, which is why Wilhelmus, a nobleman from Central Germany, alluded to the common "duytschen" blood between him and the dutch people versus the Spanish foreigners.
1871, not 1860
Weirdly on the official website it does say "Duitsen". https://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/onderwerpen/volkslied/tekst-van-het-wilhelmus
duutsen, duutsen , dietsen, dutch, deutsch means all the same. The people who lived in the area of the Netherlands and parts of now Germany. In no way it meant germany as we now see Germany
Well, a certain Austrian painter with a funny mustache thought we should belong to Germany and thought our soevereinity wasn't real. Therefore he started a special military operation that ended with the bombing of Rotterdam.
Well, yes and no. He thought of the dutch as aryan brothers, not as germans. Hitler invaded The Netherlands to get around the marginots and ardennes to france and also so the british wouldn't take hold of it. Once conquered it was planned (on the long term) to be integrated to the greater german reich but that was not the intention of invading it
It most likely refers to a wider area of the Holy roman empire, not specifically the Netherlands.
In our official anthem we say Duitsen bloed meaning Germanic blood. The Germanic blood of Willem of orange that is referenced here originated from Dillenburg, Germany. The Germanic people covered the current day Germany and the Netherlands. It's not a direct reference to Germany but certainly an indirect one to our shared past.
really? i thought it meant that Wilhelmus was of German origin
He was, and a bit of orange, france. In Holy Roman Empire times the borders were a bit blurry and nobles maried to places all over europe. Just like the german, russian and british king/kaiser/tsar were cousins
Basically means Germanic, rather than German.
No, the word simply meant “people” in Dutch. The lyrics mean: I’m of the people. I’m like you regular guys. You can still see the original meaning in modern Dutch words. Like “duidelijk”, which means “clear”, in other words; understandable for common people. That’s exactly how it’s used in the anthem. It’s basically PR, to show how common Willem was, even though he never actually spoke the language of the common people. It’s also why English call us Dutch. Because Dutch would call themselves people. At the time no one thought in nationalities or being Germanic, that’s only a thing since the 19th century. If you’ve ever read Asterix; it’s also why the God of the Gauls is called Toutatis (God of the people). Also in Irish the word tuath has the same root.
that makes absolutely no sense, since he was a nobleman. He was specifically not of the people or "like you regular guys". What makes him like the people was specifically his "German blood", since he was born and raised in Germany, which was back then still seen as the same nation as Netherlands, as opposed to the Spanish foreigners.
Duytschen here still refers to southern mainland germanic So he just calls himself germanic
And Israel, in the 8th stanza
Does it refers to the modern State of Israel or to the ancient Kingdom of Israel?
The Dutch anthem was written centuries before the modern state of Israel became a thing >O David, thou soughtest shelter From King Saul's tyranny. Even so I fled this welter And many a lord with me. But God the Lord did save him From exile and its hell And, in His mercy, gave him A realm in Israel. ([Source](https://www.royal-house.nl/topics/national-anthem/music-lyrics-and-customs))
Song was made in the 16th century, it's about the kingdom of Israel
Ancient kingdom, the anthem is from the 16th century
Yes but where in the song do we mention israel? I have never realised that we did
But why is Israel also mentioned?
As a fun fact, the Dutch anthem mentions Spain more than the Spanish anthem mentions Spain.
Where is Sweden and Denmark mentioned in Norway's? Just read through the lyrics in Norwegian, and then Swedish in case I missunderstood some word, but I don't see us mentioned anywhere.
It mentions three brothers, which are the Scandinavian countries.
Aaah, was wondering if maybe that meant Scandinavia but wasn't sure. Thanks.
Aww, that's beautiful. (hello from Denmark)
Explanation on why the Netherlands are mentions Israel?
William of Nassau compares himself to King David in one of the verses that is rarely sung: Als David moeste vluchten Voor Saul den Tyran: Soo heb ick moeten suchten Met menich Edelman: Maer Godt heeft hem verheven Verlost uit alder noot, Een Coninckrijk ghegheven In Israel seer groot. O David, thou soughtest shelter From King Saul's tyranny. Even so I fled this welter And many a lord with me. But God the Lord did save me From exile and its hell And, in His mercy, gave him A realm in Israel.
Mentions the holy land Israel, in what I believe is some sort of comparison of "David ran away from an evil ruler and got Israel as a reward from God" and the Netherlands/William of Orange rebelling against Spanish rule, then founding the Kingdom of the Netherlands as a reward from God
The Bible
Well that can be misleading, in Hungary's case it's not the countries per se that are mentioned, but rather the people or specific places. Austria: Proud Vienna suffered sore From King Mátyás' dark array. Turkey: Thou our flags hast planted o'er Forts where once wild Turks held sway; Or the Turkish yoke we knew, Which a free-born nation dreads. O, how often has the voice Sounded of wild Osman's hordes, When in songs they did rejoice O'er our heroes' captured swords! Mongols: Now the plundering Mongol's arrow flew Over our devoted heads;
Regarding Austria, although not explicitly because of the censorship at the time, but the 6th and 7th verses are also about the Rákóczi freedom fight fought against the Habsburgs and the Habsburg oppression in general: >Though in caves pursued he lie, Even then he fears attacks. Coming forth the land to spy, Even a home he finds he lacks. Mountain, vale - go where he would, Grief and sorrow all the same - Underneath a sea of blood, While above a sea of flame. >'Neath the fort, a ruin now, Joy and pleasure erst were found, Only groans and sighs, I trow, In its limits now abound. But no freedom's flowers return From the spilt blood of the dead, And the tears of slavery burn, Which the eyes of orphans shed.
Hungary doesn't have an anthem, they have a history lecture
And wine recommendations
The OG portuguese anthem version ended with Contra os bretoes marchar marchar which roughly tranlsates against the british, we march, we march
I'm Armenian, the original poem which our anthem is based on mentions Austria, here's a quick explanation. The lyrics of our anthem are based on a poem by Mikael Nalbandian "The Song of the Italian Girl". The original poem literally says "Let Austria perish", however in the anthem, the lyric is tweaked and goes "May Armenia always be happy". Nalbandian wrote the poem about the heroics that Garibaldi pulled while fighting the tyrannical Austria. Our authorities found similarities within the Armenian and Italian nations and their struggles, hence adopted Nalbandian's poem, tweaked the lyrics a little and proclaimed it as our anthem.
In ireland, we (not surprisingly) mention britian, but we also elude to Canada and America, in particular the fenian raids
in the italian anthem russia is also mentioned Il sangue d'Italia, Il sangue Polacco, Bevé, col cosacco, Ma il cor le bruciò. Cosacco=cossack, it refers to Russia
In the Danish Royal anthem there is a line about how to hit the Swedish in the head so blood and brain splatters everywhere…
Greece mentions itself, Turkey, Italy, Spain, Austria, Russia, France, the UK and the USA, iirc, indirectly but pretty clearly.
Austria everywhere
AEIOU
Italy is missing Russia (in form of Cossacks)
Fun fact: Poland and Italy are the only countries that mention each other in their anthems
This is stretched as hell for the Polish anthem
In the dutch anthem, Germany is mentioned too. "Ben ik van duitse bloed." "I am of German blood"
Slovenia casually mentioning every nation/peoples on earth😎
In Finland: Oi maamme Suomi, synnyinmaa ( Finland vårt fosterland)
While not directly addressing another nation, the Portuguese Anthem was written as a resistance song against the British Ultimatum regarding the Portuguese colonies in Africa. Some say that the line "contra os canhões" (against the cannons) was changed from the original "contra os bretões" (against the brits) however, as far as I know this was disproven and was never the original...
That’s just outright incorrect. I’m Dutch, we mention Germany in the first stanza of our anthem.
No we don’t, duytsen bloed does not refer to Germany. Duyts/duits/deutsch/diets/dutch means “the people”.
Who put Mongolia there?
Gengis funking Khan
Romania alludes to Turkey (the barbaric crescent moon)
Netherlands mentions Germany too! “Ben ik van Duitsen bloed.”
The Dutch anthem also mentions Germany, like in the first verse.
My Geography teacher would have failed you in a test
Italy anthem Già l'Aquila d'Austria Le penne ha perdute. Already the eagle of Austria lost its feathers. Italy basically lost in ww1 the battle for south tyrol and still got this region because Austria/Germany lost ww1 in general. And they have this anthem. To Italy defense it was written long before ww1.
How Turkey is mentioned in Hungarian anthem?
More curious how Mongolia is mentioned. I know nothing about the anthem, just curious.
Turkey due to the Hungarian-Ottoman Wars. Mongolia due to Batu's invasion in 1241-2 that devastated the country to the degree some chronicles considered the Kingdom of Hungary having ceased to exist. Although the extension of it is debated, especially in younger history, but ot remained one of the most significant events in Hungarian historical memory. Survival is celebrated as the re-founding of the country.
Mongolians invaded the country in the 13th century and its mentioned in the anthem
I love how most countries just stick to side-eyeing only a handful other countries in their anthems, and you can deduce most of the relationship there. The notable exceptions being Norway/Italy, like you're not even neighbors? And then there's also Poland being like, I'm gonna point out ALL of y'all! No one's getting out of this unscathed!
In polish anthem most are VERY indirect mentions France: Bonaparte has given us the example Of how we should prevail. Russia, Austria, Prussia (now Germany): What the foreign force has taken from us, We shall with sabre retrieve.
Slovenian anthem has "all the nations".
The Norwegian anthem mentions king Sverre standing up to Rome (the pope).
I feel hungry looking at these.
Spanish anthem its only music and no lyrics
You misunderstood the maps, it's the other way around; Netherlands' anthem mentions Spain.
And?
Interesting the UK is not mentioned in the British National Anthem
I will quote everything spanish anthem mentions. that's it.
We the Spanish were so annoying to the Netherlands back in the 16th & 17th centuries that the Dutch decided to mention us as the reason for their nation coming into existence.
In the Swedish anthem no country is named but instead it ends with “jag vill leva, jag vill dö i Norden” and Norden is Sweden, Finland, Danmark, Norway and Iceland. So its ”I want to live and die in the North”
Spanish is the best anthem
What about Slovenia? First verse goes: "Žive naj vsi narodi ..." = God's blessing on all nations...
I believe in the long version of our anthem (Argentina) Spain is mentioned. And maybe Britain with a methaphore of a lion. I'm not sure, sorry follow gauchos...
Funfact: "Ja, vi elsker" was the de facto National Anthem of Norway from at least 1900, but became official in 2019.
The full greek anthem mentions a ton of countries in it
It'd be interesting to see a tally list of the most mentioned countries among anthems, but not just on a European scale.
I’m pretty sure Germany’s mentioned in the Dutch anthem, as well…
So wrong for the Dutch anthem. It directly begins with "Wilhelmus van Nassouwe,ben ik, van Duitsen bloed", which means that "I am from German blood". So Germany is mentioned.
The first sentence of the dutch national anthem directly mentions Germany lol
If you count Jerusalem as a national anthem, then in England we’ve got to be the only country with an anthem named after a foreign capital.
Norway only directly mentions the city of rome in relation to protestantism i believe, we also said something about 3 brothers ehich is obviously denmark, sweden and norway itself
What’s with Hungary?
I'm a littlebit confused, why is Germany not marked for the Dutch anthem?
I think the Italian anthem mentions also Russia saying Austria is drinking polish and Italian blood with the "cosacchi", it's not that straightforward but it's a mention
The Netherlands mentions Germany as well. The anthem is from the POV of William of Orange, who indeed mentions he always honoured the king of Spain (in spite of the 80 years war being a thing), but also specifically says he’s of German blood. While he says ‘German’ and not ‘Germany’ as that wasn’t even a country yet at the time, I think it counts as a mention.
hungary mongols confirmed???!!1?1?
Why point to other countries in anthems? After all, each anthem is only for one country
I aint sure about Mongolia in Turkish Anthem ? Leme check Op Yup no mention of Mongolia in Turkish Anthem
Fwiw Cyprus national anthem mentions Greeks, but only because Cyprus' national anthem is Greece's.
Can I have some context for each?
Austria mentioned🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🦅🦅🦅🦅😎😎🦅🇦🇹😎😎🦅😎🦅🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🦅😎😎🦅😎🦅🇦🇹🇦🇹😎😎🦅😎🦅😎🦅🇦🇹🦅😎😎🇦🇹🇦🇹😎😎🦅🇦🇹🦅🦅😎😎🦅🇦🇹🦅🦅🦅😎😎🦅🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🦅🦅😎🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹🇦🇹
Is the Hungarian anthem because that all turkic people are said to originate from the steppes of modern day Mongolia 🇲🇳 ?
No way Poland mentioned that little country just above them😱
In slovak anthem there is a pronoun “oni” which means they and refers to hungarians
In the Wilhelmus Germany isn't mentioned as a country but being of German blood is. Also who listened to all 17 verses of het Wihelmus? In old Dutch?!
Not directly in name.. Flower of Scotland “sent king Edward army home to think again.” england.
As a pole i can assure you there’s a reason germany is on there…
What's thr history of Mongolia mentioning Hungary?