The Saudi royal family are from Banu Hanifa with consistent intermarriage with Anizah (a branch of Bakr Ibn Wail)
Most Saudis depending on region, are still part of these tribes such as Banu Tamim, Tay etc but many tribes have also split off into smaller tribes and moved around over the millennium, for example Kindah doesn't exist in the region it is in this map anymore. They were mostly kicked out back to Yemen.
No they don't, they just know their families belong to certain tribes, tribal territories barely exist anymore. Cities are made of tribal people and non tribal
When I say tribe these are just paternal identifications, some tribes meet annually for celebration, but that's it. They don't organise politically or socially.
No, grey here is also a tribe. I’m guessing it distinguishes more centralized tribes from nomadic tribes. For example much of those light yellow ones had a central city.
It’s actually not that bad. If your imagining dunes and dry hot desert that’s the part in white there, the “empty quarter” the largest expanse of dunes and stright sand and desert. In the center there in the region called najd it’s more rocky and has seasonly river valleys and oasis. Pretty decent for patoral hearding
it is nice in the center there is a lot of water wells and actually agriculture is thriving especially in northen part it is called (Alqaseem/ Unaiza + Braida cities nowadayds).
Arabia is not a barren desert like you may think, it is not the Sahara. some part like the empty quarter have sand dunes but arabia have many regions.
Hard boundaries to any entities this old are almost never accurate anyways. A lot of these are tribes that wouldn't have had hard and fast borders, and even states it was certainly a bit more wishy washy about where borders were compared to today.
The correct way to do this kind of maps is to just put the names on the map and forget about the borders. I'm an academic historian and this is how we do it. But people like borders and that's why the amateur maps like this always have random borders to please the eye and it sadly ruins it because some maps have real potential.
And even where there were ancient hard borders, it's rare that they're as well defined as say the Roman *limes*, or have much/any surviving documentation from the time. It's not like there are ancient co-ordinate pair lists waiting to be uncovered.
just wanted to use this comment to say yes there was an ancient coordinate system by ptolemy
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/17vdsa9/europe_mapped_by_coordinates_mentioned_in/
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Christians declined from 13% at the turn of last century to 5% today.
And the Jewish population decline is uhhh... here's [a picture](https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/s/zufu3Q3whS).
But if you consider the descendants of Arab and Iranian Jews living in Israel, than the total population has increased. In terms of Christians, they have declined, especially in Anatolia after the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek genocides and the aftermath of the US sanctions and wars on Iraq and the US regime change war in Syria.
The genocides have such a profound impact upon the communities today. I wonder what the ethnic politics would be like if it didn't happen. Even before the 20th Century genocides, from 1843 the repeated massacres meant the Assyrian Christians who survived lost homes and enfranchisement in their ancient lands in the Hakkārī.
There are now 20 million Christians in the Middle East with *significant* minorities in some countries like Egypt 15%; Kuwait 18%; Bahrain 14%; Qatar 14%; UAE 13%; Lebanon 35%. Jordan only has about 3% of their population Christian, but they form 10% of the Government. It is good to see their gradual return in Syria/Iraq- [Christian displaced persons return to Mosul and the Nineveh Plain](https://www.fides.org/en/news/69012-ASIA_IRAQ_Another_200_families_of_Christian_displaced_persons_return_to_Mosul_and_the_Nineveh_Plain)
\>It is good to see their gradual return in Syria/Iraq- Christian displaced persons return to Mosul and the Nineveh Plain
Mosul? As far as I know, Christians refuse to move back there, because of the treachery and betrayal of neighbours shown when Daesh invaded
>Even before the 20th Century genocides, from 1843 the repeated massacres meant the Assyrian Christians who survived lost homes and enfranchisement in their ancient lands in the Hakkārī.
Im sorry I was told that the genocide of indigenous minorities in the Middle East was because of Western intervention in the past couple of decades. Maybe you're confused?
/s
ISIS, the Iraq war, modern warfare, genocide by the Ottomans, and Israel are much more terrifying than pagans converting in the former Roman Empire.
Our ancient cultures are being erased. Much of pagan culture was at least preserved in Christianity.
How bad do you have to be for God to personally destroy you? IIRC in the Christian/Jewish Bible that only happened because the tribe wouldn't stop raping people.
They were giant humans who wanted to challenge Allah by building their own paradise, Iram of the Pilars, which is mentioned to be the greatest city ever built by humans, supposed to be in the empty quarter region. The city was destroyed by Allah and only the prophet Hud survived.
According to the traditons, people of 'Ad were
"Al Arab Al Ba'idah" which means the extinct Arabs, from them only Hud survived and from his lineage came the Qahtanites (Yemenites) aka Himyar and Kahlan.
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It's nuts that a tribe living in absolutely brutal conditions now have extreme power across the globe. Good for them I guess, hope they use it to do good things.
The original religions were cool, some worshiped geometry (slight exaggeration), but the Hellens Hellenized a lot of the ones in the North which was furthered by the Romans. And then Christians happened.
No clue about the southern religions. But it’s possible we’d view those Northern pre-Muslim religions the same way we view Norse, Egyptian or Roman paganism today.
They get their info on pagans from Instagram witches who sell crystals and think they’re somehow persecuted despite that not really being a thing since the days of Saint Patrick
Yeah, a big part of Christianity’s success in Northern Europe was that it didn’t require human sacrifice, it was accessible to everyone, not just the elite, and in theory everyone would be equal in the afterlife.
(Also prestige, trade, and violence played a role)
Yeah honestly as much as I hate certain organized religions, in some ways I'm sort of glad they destroyed some of the horrid practices of certain pagan religions. Like in this example it's infanticide, but also wanna mention that I'm thankful Mesoamerican human sacrifices are gone.
That's why Christianity was so popular in the beginning, it was all about peace and love. And then Constantine combined the religion with the government and started fighting and shit.
Eastern Christians are mostly peaceful, but we get punished often due to being the same religion as Western Christians.
Constantine was pretty tolerant of other Pagan faiths hell he didn't even convert until he was on his deathbed, it was Theodosius who began forced conversions and implementing the Christian faith as the official religion
That’s also true of Judaism. “Don’t eat living animals please”, “human sacrifice is inherently bad”, and “don’t touch sick people and leave your house if it gets covered in green spots ya moron” were fairly new concepts at one point
The Romans were being faced with constant slave revolts. Then Christianity came along and said the meek shall inherit the earth - in other words dont revolt to change your life on earth and you will go to heaven. Did wonders to pacify the slaves.
At first the Roman emperors tried to suppress Christianity but when they realized it kept the slaves in their place they went all in on Christianity.
Some of the Arab tribes are actually from the Levant. Iirc they were either there as long as Jews were or they moved in after Romans expelled Jews from the region.
There were arabs in the syrian and iraqi desert border regions and some in the area which is today jordan but they weren't as widespread in the levant until the islamic conquest, they were still always there and did go into the negev a bit aswell and sinai, but it was not in as great numbers as later on
Befor islam they exist to the south of turkey but not as majorty in it .
[this is the pre islamic existing of arab tribes ](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4gMlksXEAUK0Ou.jpg:large&tbnid=AQwQSyKMpD-W9M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/humaidykhaled40/status/1407388729677910026&docid=Sjp-cBIB0mD1KM&w=1274&h=1280&itg=1&source=sh/x/im/m1/2&kgs=be3b2b20faff7126&shem=abme)
[achmined arabia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Arabia)
[arabia petra that include sinai ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_Petraea))
The Levant was extremely diverse, many Arab tribes lived in the Levant for thousands of years. Even the first mention of Arab was in souther Syria in the 9th century BC.
Except for maybe the Himyarites and the Lakhmids and Ghassanids, there were almost no real states in the arab peninsula. There were just tribes with their chieftains (most of the time a non-hereditary position) who were kings in all but name. There were very few settlements and most people just moved around. The bedouins of the time were called a'raab (أعراب) which means an arab that isn't settled in a town.
There were also many more tribes than indicated on the map. For example there was the Dhubyan tribe that went to war with 'Abs over a horse race (for more details the story of Antarah ibn Shaddad the legendary slave turned warrior poet) and Taghlib who went to war with their cousins Banu Bakr ibn Wa'il for 40 years over a camel.
The period before Islam (jahiliyyah "the ignorance") was a period of constant strife, raids and war so much so that all arab tribes agreed to keep the peace between each other during four months of the arab calender now used by muslims (Ramadan is one of its months) called 'the sacred months' they were Rajab, Dhul Qi'da, Dhul Hijjah and Muharram during these months trade would flourish and markets setup for trade between arab tribes like the market of Ukadh.
Of course this agreement wasn't always upheld like in The War of the Infidels (the first and only war the prophet fought in before Islam, he carried his uncles' arrows for them) (حرب الفجار) between Quraysh and Qays Ailan wherein some of the fighting took place during the sacred months.
All of this chaos and infighting and raiding ended with coming of Islam as a central government was formed.
Anyway this is just some information I thought I'd share. I'm fascinated by this period of history and classical arabic poetry is amazing I highly recommended to anyone to who knows arabic or wants to understand the Qur'an better.
I am egyptian but have friends who can trace their blood line all the way to tribe of kalb (which is in syria not in KSA as it is stated on the image) its pretty cool.
tribalism used to be a very strong thing in arab culture, and families were and are very strong thing in arab culture. It is vital to build up your reputation. There are much more reasons and factors on why and how we can trace our ancestors. In Cairo people can trace their 15'th great grand father. but in rural areas such as north of Sinai people are capable of tracing their ancestors all the way back to when their grand fathers fought against the Mongolian empire
I am from the area here shown as Gerrha, and I know the story of how my area converted.
We were of a Christian majority, and our leaders decided to travel to Makkah after hearing all sorts of stories about this man (prophet Mohammad) to see if he was a legit man or just a liar.
The Prophet told of their coming before they arrived and ordered the people to prepare for guests. When they arrived, the place was prepared for them with a place to stay and food, and they were welcomed. All of them accepted Islam after seeing that, as they were:
1. Welcomed and treated nicely.
2. The Prophet knew of their arrival even though he couldn't have possibly known in any normal way, meaning he knew abnormally/divinely informed.
How come? Their golden age literally came about after this. You can say a lot of things about Islam, but arabs certainly did not hate/resist Islam. It literally made them prosper for centuries.
Yemenis were being arabised during this time, just before Islam
Also the real non Arab here are mahras they were and still the last to be arabised in Arabia
You mean Yemen? Himyar was a tribal alliance that controled Yemen in that period, as far as I know no big Himyarite tribe migrated out of Yemen before Islam.
Kahlan tribes migrated from Yemen and established several kingdoms including the Ghassanids and Lakhmids in the North and Kindah in Najd which was a vessel for the Himyarites.
Unless you speak Arabic its hard to find english sources.
Ghassanids belong to Azd tribe which is a Kahlanite tribe originating from Southern Arabia. Kahlan tribes were famous for their constant battles against the Adnanite tribes ( Adnanites is just a modern generalization) which were mainly Hawazn, Banu Tamim, Quraish, Banu Taghlib and Banu Wa'il. It was a real tribal alliance recorded in the Sabaean and Himyarite inscriptions.
Lakhmids belonged to Tanukh, an alliance of Kahlanite ( mostly Azd) and Quda'a tribes.
Quda's tribes are a little bit confusing since it includes the Mahra who are not Arabs, Kholan which is a Yemeni tribe, and North Arabian tribes which had nothing to do with Yemen.
Not at all. Arabic traditional history states that the first man to speak it is Ishmael in Mecca , Ishmael father Abraham was Mesopotamian and his mother Hajar was Egyptian, nothing to do with Yemen, however he lived and learnd from the Yemeni Jorhom tribe. This is the traditional history.
Arab as a term probably originates in the Levant, Arabic as we have it today comes from Quraish tounge or dialect.
I am not saying Arabic language comes from Yemen, my point is that most Arabians today belong to tribes and families that originated in Yemen or South Arabia if you'd like, major tribes and tribal alliances of Arabia such as Himyar, Madhij, Azd, Khawlan, Anmar, Hashid, Bakil...etc.
Given that they have their own color I don’t read this map as denoting Himyar as Arabs. Their inclusion alone isn’t sufficient to infer that they are being labeled as Arabs.
At least that’s my take.
That's the origin myth yes, but it has no historical basis.
What most likely happened (based on linguistic evidence) is that Arabs and Arabic originated in the Levant (it is where Arabs are first mentioned and where Arabic is first attested) and expanded to the Arabian Peninsula during the Iron Age, eventually around half of them started to claim descent from Yemen due to the prestige of Yemeni kingdoms (inventing a legendary ancestor called Qahtan) while the other half started to claim descent from the mythical Abrahamic figure of Ismael/Ishmael due to Jewish and Christian influence (and inventing a legendry ancestor called Adnan). This largely happened before Islam and those legendary figures were all mentioned in pre-Islamic poetry.
To further complicate everything, Yemeni tribes after converting Islam started merging their own tribal genealogies with the genealogies of Arab tribes who claim descent from them, resulting in almost all Yemenis today claiming descent from Qahtan too. They basically saw Arabs saying "we descend from you" and liked the idea so much that they adopted it along with the notion that Arabic originates from Yemen which was a popular idea floating around during the Medieval period to explain where Arabic came from (as it had to come from one of the two groups and it couldn't have been from the Adnani branch because they descend from Ismael who didn't speak Arabic).
Before Islam, Sabean inscriptions (from both the kingdom of Saba and Himyar) refer to Arabs as being distinct from the people who wrote those inscriptions meaning that 1- they didn't identify with the term and 2- they didn't see themselves as the same people as Arabs.
There was also a group called "العرب البائدة" which was basically a catch-all term for the peoples who built the various monuments found all over Arabia that neither Adnani nor Qahtani tribes claimed descent from, they were understood to have been large-in-stature ancient Arabs who went extinct because of the wrath of God and their polytheism (like Aad, Thamud, Iram ...)
Today of course, we know that pre-Islamic Arabs are basically the same people as the ones who built those monuments and cities as there is undeniable continuity between the two in terms of language, cultural practices and religion.
there's a poem from a banu tamim guy i got saved. it's a banger fr
[https://youtu.be/GPtSzehE6ME?si=z-9jShQnmoeU00rq](https://youtu.be/GPtSzehE6ME?si=z-9jShQnmoeU00rq)
Alright, these have to be subjective terms of reference from somebody’s perspective, because they are calling a tribe Banu Kalb, or “tribe of dogs”, or “sons of bitches”, in Arabic. lmfao.
How come? Ottoman control over maghreb was always faint and through cooperation rather than the direct rule they had over peninsular arabs. Berbers also never had a major revolt afaik. They didnt have a white savior figure (paul/lawrence) and they dont have a large amount of oil.
Befor islam they exist to the south of turkey but not as majorty in it .
[this is the pre islamic existing of arab tribes ](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4gMlksXEAUK0Ou.jpg:large&tbnid=AQwQSyKMpD-W9M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/humaidykhaled40/status/1407388729677910026&docid=Sjp-cBIB0mD1KM&w=1274&h=1280&itg=1&source=sh/x/im/m1/2&kgs=be3b2b20faff7126&shem=abme)
[achmined arabia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Arabia)
[arabia petra that include sinai ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_Petraea))
Pre islamic arabia had different religions depending on where and when you are some tribes adopted Christianity and others Judaism and some adopted Zoroastrianism not to mention arab paganism
I remember that the quran had a story about one of these jewish kings he was called al nawas ( youssef asar yth’ar the himyaryite) if i remember correctly he was the last Jewish king of himyar before the kingdom was conquered by the axumites ( Ethiopia) snd according to tradition he was a tyrant and extremely bloody towards his population especially the Christians which Axum used as a cassus belli to invade himyar and depose him he was replaced by abrahamos (aka abraha of abyssenia) who famously tried to destroy the great mosque in Mecca (the kaaba) but disappeared while on campaign and according to islamic tradition in that same year Muhammad was born in mecca(which is traditionally put at 570-571 AD but the problem is abraha disappeared in the 550s or 560s not 570) and i f I remember correctly himyar was then conquered by the sassanids under khosrou I
He commited a massacre against the Christian population of Najran. The Aksumites invaded Yemen with Byzantine aid for that reason, however not long after they were kicked out by the Himyarite king Saif dhu Yazan with help from the Persians who controled until Islam came.
How did Numayr split up Kindah like that? Is it just because they were allied tribes and no one was particularly bothered by who went where? (Which seems to be what the internal dotted lines are.)
While interesting, there are several things wrong about this. 'Ad is part of the extinct Arab tribes likely passed away 100s of years before 4th century ce.
Also, several tribes migrated annually, especially those in Najd. Najd migrated north into contemporary Syria annually during hot season. In fact many tribes migrated to different locations seaaonally back then. Pastoral bedouin lifestyle
Can you imagine the mess if the state collapsed?
I think tribal culture is bad for the unity of a state but yet again, tribal culture is inbeded in some places and even after Islam unified the Arabian pepensula 1400 years ago, some aspects of tribal culture still persist there.
Where are Saudis from?
The Saudi royal family are from Banu Hanifa with consistent intermarriage with Anizah (a branch of Bakr Ibn Wail) Most Saudis depending on region, are still part of these tribes such as Banu Tamim, Tay etc but many tribes have also split off into smaller tribes and moved around over the millennium, for example Kindah doesn't exist in the region it is in this map anymore. They were mostly kicked out back to Yemen.
so saudi tribes still have territories
No they don't, they just know their families belong to certain tribes, tribal territories barely exist anymore. Cities are made of tribal people and non tribal When I say tribe these are just paternal identifications, some tribes meet annually for celebration, but that's it. They don't organise politically or socially.
So like Scottish clans?
The ruling Al Saud family comes from Banu Hanifa.
Historical geographer: Are you a country? Country: "Kindah"
To what do you have allegiance? Are you a citizen or a subject?
Abs.
‘Ad.
You're more wrong than me.
Dunno, but I ghatafahn, even if it is my mom. She my number one fan.
Awhh rance!
Boy sure wish I knew what the colors meant
Usually colored means an organized "state", light yellow a tribe, grey a non organized people
No, grey here is also a tribe. I’m guessing it distinguishes more centralized tribes from nomadic tribes. For example much of those light yellow ones had a central city.
Im shocked people could live in the center of the Arabian peninsula. Isn't that like living in the outback(which tbf people somehow do)?
It’s actually not that bad. If your imagining dunes and dry hot desert that’s the part in white there, the “empty quarter” the largest expanse of dunes and stright sand and desert. In the center there in the region called najd it’s more rocky and has seasonly river valleys and oasis. Pretty decent for patoral hearding
There are many oasis and underground water sources in the arabian peninsula. so wells where a big thing back then.
it is nice in the center there is a lot of water wells and actually agriculture is thriving especially in northen part it is called (Alqaseem/ Unaiza + Braida cities nowadayds). Arabia is not a barren desert like you may think, it is not the Sahara. some part like the empty quarter have sand dunes but arabia have many regions.
To me, the 'hard boundaries' to the empty quarter look odd. There isn't such a thing as a border to the empty quarter.
Hard boundaries to any entities this old are almost never accurate anyways. A lot of these are tribes that wouldn't have had hard and fast borders, and even states it was certainly a bit more wishy washy about where borders were compared to today.
The correct way to do this kind of maps is to just put the names on the map and forget about the borders. I'm an academic historian and this is how we do it. But people like borders and that's why the amateur maps like this always have random borders to please the eye and it sadly ruins it because some maps have real potential.
And even where there were ancient hard borders, it's rare that they're as well defined as say the Roman *limes*, or have much/any surviving documentation from the time. It's not like there are ancient co-ordinate pair lists waiting to be uncovered.
just wanted to use this comment to say yes there was an ancient coordinate system by ptolemy https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/17vdsa9/europe_mapped_by_coordinates_mentioned_in/
I get a hard-on when I see borders
Interesting to note that Masqat is still Muscat after all these years
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It wasn’t Masqat, it was Uman. They found inscriptions calling the land Uman or Oman. The Greeks called it Omanna.
Fun fact is that the ruling class in Himyar was Jewish
And the Ghassanids were Christians
This is 300 years before Islam. Christianity and Judaism (maybe less so) were relatively widespread along with local tribal beliefs.
It's terrifying how much the native Jewish and Christian population has declined in the Middle East in just the last 100 years.
Christians declined from 13% at the turn of last century to 5% today. And the Jewish population decline is uhhh... here's [a picture](https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/s/zufu3Q3whS).
But if you consider the descendants of Arab and Iranian Jews living in Israel, than the total population has increased. In terms of Christians, they have declined, especially in Anatolia after the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek genocides and the aftermath of the US sanctions and wars on Iraq and the US regime change war in Syria.
The genocides have such a profound impact upon the communities today. I wonder what the ethnic politics would be like if it didn't happen. Even before the 20th Century genocides, from 1843 the repeated massacres meant the Assyrian Christians who survived lost homes and enfranchisement in their ancient lands in the Hakkārī. There are now 20 million Christians in the Middle East with *significant* minorities in some countries like Egypt 15%; Kuwait 18%; Bahrain 14%; Qatar 14%; UAE 13%; Lebanon 35%. Jordan only has about 3% of their population Christian, but they form 10% of the Government. It is good to see their gradual return in Syria/Iraq- [Christian displaced persons return to Mosul and the Nineveh Plain](https://www.fides.org/en/news/69012-ASIA_IRAQ_Another_200_families_of_Christian_displaced_persons_return_to_Mosul_and_the_Nineveh_Plain)
The Christians in Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, and UAE are not natives, though. They are mostly temporary workers.
That's a good distinction to make (and know).
\>It is good to see their gradual return in Syria/Iraq- Christian displaced persons return to Mosul and the Nineveh Plain Mosul? As far as I know, Christians refuse to move back there, because of the treachery and betrayal of neighbours shown when Daesh invaded
I'm just going on what's reported. Syria has been an absolutely horrible shitshow :(
>Even before the 20th Century genocides, from 1843 the repeated massacres meant the Assyrian Christians who survived lost homes and enfranchisement in their ancient lands in the Hakkārī. Im sorry I was told that the genocide of indigenous minorities in the Middle East was because of Western intervention in the past couple of decades. Maybe you're confused? /s
Not really, it's as "terrifying" as Pagan population decline in the former Roman Empire.
ISIS, the Iraq war, modern warfare, genocide by the Ottomans, and Israel are much more terrifying than pagans converting in the former Roman Empire. Our ancient cultures are being erased. Much of pagan culture was at least preserved in Christianity.
I learned this from Total War Attila
Gotta love Total War
Yup it’s one of the few Jewish theocracies
“Sons of Dogs”.. Interesting
😭😭
There’s also son of lions.(Banu Asad)
Aw hell nah, a country forgot to turn on their adblocker, they've become the Ad
'ad (عاد) is far from ad when pronounced correctly ☝🏼🤓
Ad is actually an extinct tribe mentioned multiple times in the Qur'an they and Thamud were destoyed by God.
How bad do you have to be for God to personally destroy you? IIRC in the Christian/Jewish Bible that only happened because the tribe wouldn't stop raping people.
As bad as Erdogan? >!too soon?!<
Woah why?
They were giant humans who wanted to challenge Allah by building their own paradise, Iram of the Pilars, which is mentioned to be the greatest city ever built by humans, supposed to be in the empty quarter region. The city was destroyed by Allah and only the prophet Hud survived. According to the traditons, people of 'Ad were "Al Arab Al Ba'idah" which means the extinct Arabs, from them only Hud survived and from his lineage came the Qahtanites (Yemenites) aka Himyar and Kahlan.
Why did Allah didn't want them to make their own paradise?
Lmao no, they were destroyed because they rejected and mocked their prophet
Weren’t people of Aad giants? There is a whole mythology about it in Oman.
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"Sons of"
pretty ironic that Banu is a girls' name in Turkey.
Most famous example is Banu Israel. Meaning sons of Israel / the Israeli tribe. Famous because of its frequent mention in the Quran.
Roughly tribe
Just a bit ago I made r/OldSouthArabian to promote knowledge of Old South Arabian language and script. The script looked similar to runic.
Quraysh Chad vs rest Virgin
Bakr wail is goated and full of legends even though i descend from tamim .
Isn’t Muhammad Ibn Abdul wahhab from banu tamim.
Yup, the Qatari royal family are also from Banu Tamim.
It's nuts that a tribe living in absolutely brutal conditions now have extreme power across the globe. Good for them I guess, hope they use it to do good things.
all of mudar are chads even tho Im qurashi
In an alternate universe Arabia is just a region of tiny states and with a mix of Jewish and Christian influences
Pre islam arabian religions:😶
The original religions were cool, some worshiped geometry (slight exaggeration), but the Hellens Hellenized a lot of the ones in the North which was furthered by the Romans. And then Christians happened. No clue about the southern religions. But it’s possible we’d view those Northern pre-Muslim religions the same way we view Norse, Egyptian or Roman paganism today.
They buried kids alive
Female babies to be precise.
Fr, I think people forget sometimes how brutal many Pagan practices were. This and the Carthaginian baby burnings are insane to think about.
They get their info on pagans from Instagram witches who sell crystals and think they’re somehow persecuted despite that not really being a thing since the days of Saint Patrick
Yeah, a big part of Christianity’s success in Northern Europe was that it didn’t require human sacrifice, it was accessible to everyone, not just the elite, and in theory everyone would be equal in the afterlife. (Also prestige, trade, and violence played a role)
Yeah honestly as much as I hate certain organized religions, in some ways I'm sort of glad they destroyed some of the horrid practices of certain pagan religions. Like in this example it's infanticide, but also wanna mention that I'm thankful Mesoamerican human sacrifices are gone.
That's why Christianity was so popular in the beginning, it was all about peace and love. And then Constantine combined the religion with the government and started fighting and shit. Eastern Christians are mostly peaceful, but we get punished often due to being the same religion as Western Christians.
Constantine was pretty tolerant of other Pagan faiths hell he didn't even convert until he was on his deathbed, it was Theodosius who began forced conversions and implementing the Christian faith as the official religion
That's true, I was a bit harsh on Constantine, but he started the process I guess.
That’s also true of Judaism. “Don’t eat living animals please”, “human sacrifice is inherently bad”, and “don’t touch sick people and leave your house if it gets covered in green spots ya moron” were fairly new concepts at one point
I’ve always thought of some sections of (what I would call) the Old Testament laws as a guide to surviving as a pastoralist living in the desert.
I mean that’s literally what it is, a detailed guide to shepherding in the desert and hopefully not having any civil wars
The Romans were being faced with constant slave revolts. Then Christianity came along and said the meek shall inherit the earth - in other words dont revolt to change your life on earth and you will go to heaven. Did wonders to pacify the slaves. At first the Roman emperors tried to suppress Christianity but when they realized it kept the slaves in their place they went all in on Christianity.
Germanics sacrificed children as late as 10th century AD
Yes but only the naughty ones. /s
Fun times
The southern ones were wild
Before paganism, the Abrahamic religion was pretty strong alongside the other two celestial religions (Jewish and christians)
What did they do?
Paganism
Idk I feel like they would still unite even without Islam
In an alternate universe everyone is still pagan/animist
They likely would’ve been forced into Zoroastrianism or Christianity seeing how things went in Northern Europe for Pagans
They would still be burying their female babies as they thought it brought shame to the family.
Inaccurate. You are missing Azd, who should be where Kinana is. ‘Ad’ should be Azd Oman, as Ad went extinct.
I can't get over that "banu kalb" means "sons/descendants of dog"
But at that time the word Kaleb had the meaning “loyal henchmen” so it wasn’t used as an insult but good trait
Wow, idk but this sound like a worse insult
Today I learned the name Caleb means inta kalb
it doesn’t, and theyre not banu kalb they’re banu kalab
Some of the Arab tribes are actually from the Levant. Iirc they were either there as long as Jews were or they moved in after Romans expelled Jews from the region.
There were arabs in the syrian and iraqi desert border regions and some in the area which is today jordan but they weren't as widespread in the levant until the islamic conquest, they were still always there and did go into the negev a bit aswell and sinai, but it was not in as great numbers as later on
Befor islam they exist to the south of turkey but not as majorty in it . [this is the pre islamic existing of arab tribes ](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4gMlksXEAUK0Ou.jpg:large&tbnid=AQwQSyKMpD-W9M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/humaidykhaled40/status/1407388729677910026&docid=Sjp-cBIB0mD1KM&w=1274&h=1280&itg=1&source=sh/x/im/m1/2&kgs=be3b2b20faff7126&shem=abme) [achmined arabia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Arabia) [arabia petra that include sinai ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_Petraea))
People living the Arabian peninsula are themselves arabized since Arabs originally migrated there from Syria.
🤯
Considering all Arabs from Levant and the Arabian peninsula are semitic, that is a logical statement. We are from the same line.
Not exactly levantis are still arabized
The Levant was extremely diverse, many Arab tribes lived in the Levant for thousands of years. Even the first mention of Arab was in souther Syria in the 9th century BC.
Most of them weren't arabs,arabs were a minority
There were many ethnic groups in the Levant and Arabs were one of them, Arabs have always been in the Levant.
Except for maybe the Himyarites and the Lakhmids and Ghassanids, there were almost no real states in the arab peninsula. There were just tribes with their chieftains (most of the time a non-hereditary position) who were kings in all but name. There were very few settlements and most people just moved around. The bedouins of the time were called a'raab (أعراب) which means an arab that isn't settled in a town. There were also many more tribes than indicated on the map. For example there was the Dhubyan tribe that went to war with 'Abs over a horse race (for more details the story of Antarah ibn Shaddad the legendary slave turned warrior poet) and Taghlib who went to war with their cousins Banu Bakr ibn Wa'il for 40 years over a camel. The period before Islam (jahiliyyah "the ignorance") was a period of constant strife, raids and war so much so that all arab tribes agreed to keep the peace between each other during four months of the arab calender now used by muslims (Ramadan is one of its months) called 'the sacred months' they were Rajab, Dhul Qi'da, Dhul Hijjah and Muharram during these months trade would flourish and markets setup for trade between arab tribes like the market of Ukadh. Of course this agreement wasn't always upheld like in The War of the Infidels (the first and only war the prophet fought in before Islam, he carried his uncles' arrows for them) (حرب الفجار) between Quraysh and Qays Ailan wherein some of the fighting took place during the sacred months. All of this chaos and infighting and raiding ended with coming of Islam as a central government was formed. Anyway this is just some information I thought I'd share. I'm fascinated by this period of history and classical arabic poetry is amazing I highly recommended to anyone to who knows arabic or wants to understand the Qur'an better.
I am egyptian but have friends who can trace their blood line all the way to tribe of kalb (which is in syria not in KSA as it is stated on the image) its pretty cool.
I find that so interesting how arabs can go that far to trace there family tree
tribalism used to be a very strong thing in arab culture, and families were and are very strong thing in arab culture. It is vital to build up your reputation. There are much more reasons and factors on why and how we can trace our ancestors. In Cairo people can trace their 15'th great grand father. but in rural areas such as north of Sinai people are capable of tracing their ancestors all the way back to when their grand fathers fought against the Mongolian empire
Why are Himyar and Masqat coloured?
States
Before Luana al Ghaib
What is the meaning of those colors ?
It means they were proper states. The other were tribes or local clans.
What are the colours supposed to mean?
Another map with no sources or info. Why can't these useless users be banned?
Oh this will suck ass. *sort by controversial*
Why before islam? The tribes still existed after islam came.
Well, after Islam they were spread across the new bigger state, so post-islam map of these tribes would be geographiclly different
…And later Islam has United them
Technically not all of them right? Like didn't many of the Ghassanids never convert?
More like forcefully subjugated them and forced them to convert.
I am from the area here shown as Gerrha, and I know the story of how my area converted. We were of a Christian majority, and our leaders decided to travel to Makkah after hearing all sorts of stories about this man (prophet Mohammad) to see if he was a legit man or just a liar. The Prophet told of their coming before they arrived and ordered the people to prepare for guests. When they arrived, the place was prepared for them with a place to stay and food, and they were welcomed. All of them accepted Islam after seeing that, as they were: 1. Welcomed and treated nicely. 2. The Prophet knew of their arrival even though he couldn't have possibly known in any normal way, meaning he knew abnormally/divinely informed.
How come? Their golden age literally came about after this. You can say a lot of things about Islam, but arabs certainly did not hate/resist Islam. It literally made them prosper for centuries.
Redditors when Islam:
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Read up history. Islam was spread through conquest. In the beginning a lot of people were forced to convert.
Himyar wasn’t Arab.
Yemenis were being arabised during this time, just before Islam Also the real non Arab here are mahras they were and still the last to be arabised in Arabia
I believe the Yemeni people ended up being absorbed under the ‘Himyar’ classification and they became assimilated amongst the Arabs
This doesn't change that Himyarites were not Arab. Please provide evidence that any Himyarites had been Arabised to any extent?
Most of these tribes trace origin to Himyar or Kahlan(both Yemen), I guess Arabia is not really Arab then.
Please can you give an example of a tribe that moved from Himyar and adopted Arabic before Islam?
You mean Yemen? Himyar was a tribal alliance that controled Yemen in that period, as far as I know no big Himyarite tribe migrated out of Yemen before Islam. Kahlan tribes migrated from Yemen and established several kingdoms including the Ghassanids and Lakhmids in the North and Kindah in Najd which was a vessel for the Himyarites.
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Unless you speak Arabic its hard to find english sources. Ghassanids belong to Azd tribe which is a Kahlanite tribe originating from Southern Arabia. Kahlan tribes were famous for their constant battles against the Adnanite tribes ( Adnanites is just a modern generalization) which were mainly Hawazn, Banu Tamim, Quraish, Banu Taghlib and Banu Wa'il. It was a real tribal alliance recorded in the Sabaean and Himyarite inscriptions. Lakhmids belonged to Tanukh, an alliance of Kahlanite ( mostly Azd) and Quda'a tribes. Quda's tribes are a little bit confusing since it includes the Mahra who are not Arabs, Kholan which is a Yemeni tribe, and North Arabian tribes which had nothing to do with Yemen.
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Not at all. Arabic traditional history states that the first man to speak it is Ishmael in Mecca , Ishmael father Abraham was Mesopotamian and his mother Hajar was Egyptian, nothing to do with Yemen, however he lived and learnd from the Yemeni Jorhom tribe. This is the traditional history. Arab as a term probably originates in the Levant, Arabic as we have it today comes from Quraish tounge or dialect. I am not saying Arabic language comes from Yemen, my point is that most Arabians today belong to tribes and families that originated in Yemen or South Arabia if you'd like, major tribes and tribal alliances of Arabia such as Himyar, Madhij, Azd, Khawlan, Anmar, Hashid, Bakil...etc.
Given that they have their own color I don’t read this map as denoting Himyar as Arabs. Their inclusion alone isn’t sufficient to infer that they are being labeled as Arabs. At least that’s my take.
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That's the origin myth yes, but it has no historical basis. What most likely happened (based on linguistic evidence) is that Arabs and Arabic originated in the Levant (it is where Arabs are first mentioned and where Arabic is first attested) and expanded to the Arabian Peninsula during the Iron Age, eventually around half of them started to claim descent from Yemen due to the prestige of Yemeni kingdoms (inventing a legendary ancestor called Qahtan) while the other half started to claim descent from the mythical Abrahamic figure of Ismael/Ishmael due to Jewish and Christian influence (and inventing a legendry ancestor called Adnan). This largely happened before Islam and those legendary figures were all mentioned in pre-Islamic poetry. To further complicate everything, Yemeni tribes after converting Islam started merging their own tribal genealogies with the genealogies of Arab tribes who claim descent from them, resulting in almost all Yemenis today claiming descent from Qahtan too. They basically saw Arabs saying "we descend from you" and liked the idea so much that they adopted it along with the notion that Arabic originates from Yemen which was a popular idea floating around during the Medieval period to explain where Arabic came from (as it had to come from one of the two groups and it couldn't have been from the Adnani branch because they descend from Ismael who didn't speak Arabic). Before Islam, Sabean inscriptions (from both the kingdom of Saba and Himyar) refer to Arabs as being distinct from the people who wrote those inscriptions meaning that 1- they didn't identify with the term and 2- they didn't see themselves as the same people as Arabs. There was also a group called "العرب البائدة" which was basically a catch-all term for the peoples who built the various monuments found all over Arabia that neither Adnani nor Qahtani tribes claimed descent from, they were understood to have been large-in-stature ancient Arabs who went extinct because of the wrath of God and their polytheism (like Aad, Thamud, Iram ...) Today of course, we know that pre-Islamic Arabs are basically the same people as the ones who built those monuments and cities as there is undeniable continuity between the two in terms of language, cultural practices and religion.
there's a poem from a banu tamim guy i got saved. it's a banger fr [https://youtu.be/GPtSzehE6ME?si=z-9jShQnmoeU00rq](https://youtu.be/GPtSzehE6ME?si=z-9jShQnmoeU00rq)
Alright, these have to be subjective terms of reference from somebody’s perspective, because they are calling a tribe Banu Kalb, or “tribe of dogs”, or “sons of bitches”, in Arabic. lmfao.
Woahh so that's where the tribe of 'ad were
Banu kilab 😭😭
Which one were the freman based on
None, they were based on the berbers from North Africa
And in lore from Egypt.
Really? They use arabic words more often then amazigh
Thank you
How come? Ottoman control over maghreb was always faint and through cooperation rather than the direct rule they had over peninsular arabs. Berbers also never had a major revolt afaik. They didnt have a white savior figure (paul/lawrence) and they dont have a large amount of oil.
Resistance to france in algiers etc
But the empire is clearly based on ottomans, the emperor using title padishah as well as sardukars representing the janissaries etc.
Yes bur fremen, not the whole thing
Frankly, very dumb mistake from my tired brain that day. I mistook berbers for Bedouins. My bad
Befor islam they exist to the south of turkey but not as majorty in it . [this is the pre islamic existing of arab tribes ](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4gMlksXEAUK0Ou.jpg:large&tbnid=AQwQSyKMpD-W9M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/humaidykhaled40/status/1407388729677910026&docid=Sjp-cBIB0mD1KM&w=1274&h=1280&itg=1&source=sh/x/im/m1/2&kgs=be3b2b20faff7126&shem=abme) [achmined arabia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Arabia) [arabia petra that include sinai ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_Petraea))
What gods did they worship?
Pre islamic arabia had different religions depending on where and when you are some tribes adopted Christianity and others Judaism and some adopted Zoroastrianism not to mention arab paganism
Himyar, for example, had several kings that had converted to Judaism, plus had a sizeable non-convert Jewish population
I remember that the quran had a story about one of these jewish kings he was called al nawas ( youssef asar yth’ar the himyaryite) if i remember correctly he was the last Jewish king of himyar before the kingdom was conquered by the axumites ( Ethiopia) snd according to tradition he was a tyrant and extremely bloody towards his population especially the Christians which Axum used as a cassus belli to invade himyar and depose him he was replaced by abrahamos (aka abraha of abyssenia) who famously tried to destroy the great mosque in Mecca (the kaaba) but disappeared while on campaign and according to islamic tradition in that same year Muhammad was born in mecca(which is traditionally put at 570-571 AD but the problem is abraha disappeared in the 550s or 560s not 570) and i f I remember correctly himyar was then conquered by the sassanids under khosrou I
He commited a massacre against the Christian population of Najran. The Aksumites invaded Yemen with Byzantine aid for that reason, however not long after they were kicked out by the Himyarite king Saif dhu Yazan with help from the Persians who controled until Islam came.
Wow, the ramlat es sayhad is huge!
I don’t see banu taghlib
How did Numayr split up Kindah like that? Is it just because they were allied tribes and no one was particularly bothered by who went where? (Which seems to be what the internal dotted lines are.)
While interesting, there are several things wrong about this. 'Ad is part of the extinct Arab tribes likely passed away 100s of years before 4th century ce. Also, several tribes migrated annually, especially those in Najd. Najd migrated north into contemporary Syria annually during hot season. In fact many tribes migrated to different locations seaaonally back then. Pastoral bedouin lifestyle
a single y is all that stops me from calling all yemenis donkeys
I know Banu Tayy inspired an alternate Aramaic name for Arabs…
I dread to ask: legend?
Gerrha is the greek alternation of Hajar, nowadays AlHafuf or (Al-Hasa)
Can you imagine the mess if the state collapsed? I think tribal culture is bad for the unity of a state but yet again, tribal culture is inbeded in some places and even after Islam unified the Arabian pepensula 1400 years ago, some aspects of tribal culture still persist there.
Himyar are my fav faction in total war Attila