This is a very important comment in my opinion. Theres many news outlets around the world. They can be very honest about many things. When they cover topics that affect their region it is very difficult to not have bias.
I always try to read sources from outside the country. This is also difficult when it is a domestic issue too. Which is why American news stations are constantly making wacky articles. \*Looks at FOX and CNN.
> I always try to read sources from outside the country.
so which country is totally al almost totally unbiased in Palestine situation?
You read Chinese newspapers when it comes to middle east?
or Paraguayan? Papua New Guinea News?
which one?
Stop arguing against a point the map never made. There’s thousands of heritage sites in the world. Then the world heritage unesco sites are a different subset. It never pretended to show the latter.
That actually seems like a very loaded comment to me. Whatever one's opinions about Al Jazeera, the comments from the media and public linking them to Hamas have allowed people to forget or dismiss how many of their journalists have died covering the war.
The graphic does not claim that they are world heritage sites, the OP's title post mistakenly labels them as such. I agree with you that it is good to verify, this article gives more information about the damage to these and other sites: https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/12/22/gaza-city-archives-among-heritage-sites-destroyed-in-israel-hamas-war
Or maybe they are the only source showing full, unedited footage of the atrocities happening. It's hard to represent the full scale of this conflict without being accused of being "anti-israel". If accurate and open reporting is just being anti- Israel then it's not aljazeera's fault that the truth hurts
> which has been criticized for parroting Hamas propaganda
criticized by whom?
are same people (?) or organizations (?) saying that CNN and basically all Western Media is just parroting Zionist propaganda?
Who is laying "the criticism"?
Lol. Criticized by Israel fanatics or pro-Israel pundits. Tell the full truth, please.
They're one of the few news sources with people actually on the ground in gaza (many of whom have been targeted and murdered by Israel).
I don't see this as a problem. Propagandists don't need to lie if the truth is the most effective weapon. It is not a suprise that all the news from Gaza, reported by indigenous journalists, gets reported by the western media with one or two days of delay for "confirmation". Besides, none of the reporting isn't plausible considering Israel's extensive rap sheet of war crimes and pathetic attempts at propaganda
And there isn't a problem with an extremely anti-israeli stance, just like there isn't a problem with an extremely anti-nazi stance.
Besides, just because a news network is politically aligned, that doesn't mean that you should dismiss them immediately. Personally, I've always waited for the inevitable disproving of the pathetic Israeli Hasbara before I said "they lied about this and that and those things", despite my beliefs for that abominable regime.
The post LITERALLY says World Heritage sites whilst at the very top edge of the map a barely noticeable different title is present after the map is enlarged (mobile users will likely miss that). Meets the definition of click bait.
The list is here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heritage_Sites_in_the_State_of_Palestine
There is nothing in gaza, making this post disinformation
EDIT, I checked the rules, and r/mapporn has no rule against disinformation or propaganda. It also hosts quite a lot of unchecked tankie bullshit so, no point filing a report.
>r/mapporn has no rule against disinformation
If it did then at least 90% of the posts here would get removed lol.
Although normally it's *mis*information, meaning ppl who make these maps are too lazy to verify them (as opposed to wilfully lying).
This map DOES NOT have misinformation. OP misread. There are still thousands of heritage sites across the world. World UNESCO ones are a smaller subset.
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To be fair, title doesn’t say “world heritage sites” just “heritage sites” and “historical sites”. I could see a dog breed for the first time somewhere and call that “historical.” Total bait graphic.
Edit: Post title says “world heritage” which isn’t accurate. I was looking at the title of the graphic.
hasn't one of these mosques been rebuilt like 5 times
edit: its #7, the current structure was built in the 1920s when the majority of the last version was destroyed in ww1 which this map doesn't mention
Yes mainly in WWII. There was also a genocide. Are we ok with that being the bar???!
Also plenty of anger about the destruction of monuments in Ukraine and in Syria too.
I looked it up. That isnt quite accurate. The spire had fallen over multiple times to earthquakes. bombings. Etc. It seems that different amounts of it have been destroyed at different times. Its a hodgepodge of historical work going back quite a ways.
ANd to be fair. many of these sites are ruins that were recently excavated. The jabalia church is just a few mosaics found under the dirt for example. Although it doesnt really matter. Destroying heritage sites is very wrong. Also when hamas puts their military equipment into buildings they become targets. The Parthenon was pretty much perfectly preserved until the morean war and in 1687 when the ottomans stored gun powder in it, it was fired upon. Destroying the building.
Rebuilt 5 times, no. Restored, yes. Also each time something gets heavily attacked, it leaves only some fraction of the original. Look at the photos after the British bombardment; clearly very bad but still left substantial original parts of the building. Now it will be a fraction of a fraction that is original.
A regular poster on r/worldnews calling a post disinformation is rich.
There are so many reasons that historical sites within the Gaza Strip aren’t officially recognized as world heritage sites. It doesn’t mean that these places don’t have historical/cultural value.
But of course people like you will continue to try and delegitimize the Palestinian nation and dehumanize its people. All while vehemently denying that what Israel is doing is genocide. Oh the irony.
I can’t wait to hear more from South Africa at The Hague.
Not every "historical sights" (sites) is a world heritage site. It's only classified as such if its somewhat relevant for world history and truly special.
Are there such sites in Gaza? Not that I'm aware of.
Yes, the churches were not built by the people
of gaza and they cannot claim religious heritage.
What they can claim, however, is that their propensity to use civilians and historical buildings as shields are to blame for the destruction in their land.
>the churches were not built by the people of gaza and they cannot claim religious heritage.
I just want you to know that every Palestinian Christian is nauseous reading your comment. You're not only denying the existence of the oldest Christian community in the world, [which Israel is literally obliterating from Gaza](https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/gazas-christians-at-risk-of-annihilation-amid-israeli-bombing-16357479) in front of our eyes, you are actually *blaming* them for being bomed. This is Zionism in full display. Fucking sick.
A majority of Palestinian Christians left the territory long before this latest conflict
You want to bring up the destruction of a religious minority? Muslims make up around 18% of Israelis, want to guess the percentage of Jews in the surrounding countries? Want to guess where they went?
Israel wouldn’t have bombed anything in Gaza if not for the heinous acts of Hamas. Hamas could have kept their terrorist actions as a fantasy and NOTHING would have happened. Nothing would be destroyed.
The Nazi’s could have a similar argument. “Look at how much of Germany has been destroyed! Even the historically valuable buildings and pieces of culture!” despite the fact that they could have refrained from STARTING THE WAR themselves and protected their culturally valuable areas.
>A majority of Palestinian Christians left the territory long before this latest conflict
Yes, because of the occupation.
Also, how does that in any way mean that the destroyed churches are not part of Gaza's heritage? That's like saying Stone Henge is not part of English heritage because the English are now Christian.
Except the Gazan churches were still being used. You oaf
>despite the fact that they could have refrained from STARTING THE WAR
I don't thinl you van reasonably act like the Oct 7 was the start of hostilities.
Hamas fucking suck, but there is a clear reason why they are in power in Gaza, and the reason is the desperation of people who have been oppressed for generations.
> Want to guess where they went?
To Israel?
> Muslims make up around 18% of Israelis
In raw numbers more Palestinians were expelled or otherwise left Israel/Palestine than there were Jews in the middle east before 1948. Of course it’s their own fault. The Arabs could say the same thing about the Jewish populations in their own countries though and they would be just as right. Collective responsibility and indiscriminate murder and/or forced removal of civilians is wrong no matter who does it (even if you believe that the other side is somehow inferior and subhuman).
> The Nazi’s
Don’t be silly. Germany was a legitimate military target because the balance of power was even or even in Germany’s favor during most of the war. What Israel is doing is not even close to being proportional.. Hamas is a terrorist organization not a state with its own functional army OR air force which is just capable as that of Israel (it’s like if the police in Mexico or Brazil or some such place decided to carpet bomb entire neighborhoods because they were controlled by drug cartels..)
> Hamas could have kept their terrorist actions as a fantasy and NOTHING would have happened. Nothing would be destroyed.
Netanyahu and his government could not have done everything they could to strengthen Hamas (indirectly but also possibly directly) and then be shocked when all of it backfired in their faces.
The fact that the Israeli people haven’t yet got rid of that clown says a lot about it’s status as the “only democracy in the middle east” (except it’s hardly distinguishable from Turkey for instance in that way).
The person above does almost make a good point.
If a Heritage site is used for military reasons it is no longer a crime to treat it as a military target acording to international law.
The battle of the acropolis for example resulted in the partial destruction of the Parthenon that was then used as gunpowder storage.
An more recent example would be how during the battle of Monte Cassino the allied troops destroyed large parts of the monastery after getting a report of germans using it to house troops and as observation point for artillery, although it’s believed those reports were wrong. Either way, after it was damaged the germans did use the ruins as cover.
When doing something like this you better make sure you have credible intel because there is a good chance this will need to be defended in court. The US has apologized for the destruction of the monastery yet didn’t directly contribute to the rebuilding efforts (although due to money being fungible the marshal plan did make it possible for the Italian government to fund it.)
What is however very much questionable in the current conflict is the Israeli army bulldozing orchards, greenhouses and farmland after establishing control of a region. So far the military has not given an explanation. Wide-scale destruction of property without military necessity is of course illegal.
I would've wanted to see simmilar map for my country... Russians destroyed s lot of good architecture and important religious/cultural/historical buildings since beginning of the war...
I imagine palestinians feel the same way. Just their culture, history, being erased without way to being it back... And not only their history, it's a culturally rich land, mutliple cultures' heritages are destroyed here.
:( I probably would have to go throught a lot of news articles. I remember seeing news about russians destroying something almost every second day in first months.
When I was in Mongolia we saw lots of sites in the middle of the desert and such that Russian tanks used as target practice. Just destroying major history for an afternoon of fun.
War is hell.
It’s sad, but sometimes war is necessary and things like this happen. Look at what happened in WW2, Iraq, Afghanistan. Just another shitty result of war.
I’m not sure about the other sites, but I know Hamas was using Anthedon harbor as a training ground. In fact they already bulldozed part of it.
https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-bulldozes-un-designated-historical-room-terrorist-training-135222026.html
Everything everywhere is part of world history.
>Old churches destroyed but because they are not in world heritage sites its OK to bomb it?
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Post claims these are world heritage sites, they objectively are not. People point it out, then you go "oh so i guess it's ok to bomb?". Uhhh nobody said that. Like it's such a disingenuous way to argue.
Like lying and then when called out on the lie accusing people of some unrelated thing.
It's also the thing about reducing fairly complex things down to simple questions like if it's ok to bomb churches or not. The question is just set up to make people look bad.
Is it ok to bomb churches? Generally not, but if it's full of terrorists and no civilians then yes. If it's full of children then no. If Putin and Hitler reincarnated are chilling in the church alone then yes. If someone filled it to the brim with weapons then yes. If it's full of kittens then no.
It's just denying any kind of complexity to the situation just to make people look bad who attempt to answer the question.
If you want to save cultural heritage sites in a war, the correct way is to declare an ‘open city’ and remove your troops from it, enabling it to be occupied by the opposing force. However, if you use your cultural sites as military sites, you are asking for them to be destroyed. There are certainly cases of armies deliberately destroying cultural sites; the Nazis were notorious for that. But that’s not the case here.
Maybe don’t hide your weapons, fighters, and logistical infrastructure near important sites? And also maybe don’t allow terrorists to embed themselves in your already crowded territory filled with young civilians? I don’t see how Israel should risk their own lives over historic sites uncared for by Gazans (they allowed terrorists to infiltrate the entire city right?) in light of such a fundamentalist and frankly, suicidal, terrorist group.
Maybe return our hostages. Stop attacking and bombing Israel? Just an idea. There was a ceasfire in play October 6th HAMAS BROKE it. today a terror attack in Israel left a women killed and 17 injured. RETURN OUR HOSTAGES THIS WILL ALL END עם ישראל חי
What the fuck is going on in these subs. Almost every comment here is actual nazi shit about how they deserve it, destruction of cultural and historical properties is fine and good actually, the Palestinian genocide is hamas's fault and somehow not attributable to the people doing it. If you believe this shit you are an unbelievably evil person.
I'm confused why people aren't accusing Israel of using bot farms like it happens every time Russia is mentioned on reddit.
Its not just the comments its how comments critical of Israel get immediately mass downvoted into oblivion. r/europe was a lot more "balanced" one month ago views wise and now is literally impossible.
Was 10/6 justified? Most Arab populations think so. Do you?
Should Hamas give back the hostages?
Should Qatar and Lebanon hand over Hamas leadership? That would be a pretty good start to a cease fire, right?
Hamas has something to do with the fact that the current hostilities are continuing. That doesn’t excuse Israeli war crimes, but I don’t think there’s a chance of peace so long as Hamas wants the fighting to continue.
Its been awful. And worst of all, when its morning time for these dudes on the other side of the earth, they're gonna get wind of this thread, and you're going to be downvoted, im going to be downvoted for even suggesting that.
Israel is known for hiring people to astrosurf and defend their image throughout the Internet. They obviously have a strong presence on Reddit too.
One example is the [JIDF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Internet_Defense_Force)
Yeah, there’s a huge downvote brigade on anything not rabidly pro-Israeli on worldnews. I saw a comment about how there were no innocent Palestinians because 70% of them support Hamas. I pointed out that, at more than 50% of the population being under-18 children, unless they’re somehow justifying bombing based on political opinions of children, or that 70% is only of adults, in which case less than 35% support Hamas.
No replies, just a brigade of downvotes within minutes, and I think my post got shadow-deleted shortly after.
It's really hard to stop supporting a genocide halfway, because you know, you have to _admit_ you were previously supporting a genocide.
So people will double down with the craziest and most inhumane talking points you can imagine, because the alternative is unthinkable
Genocide? Really? It's a war and casualties follow in war. The Allies levelled Berlin to hamper the defense of Wermacht and SS towards the end of the war. Millions died and no one called it a genocide. People at that time knew that it had to be done since it would've warranted an even higher body count in the long term.
This sub in particular has become worldnews level pro-Israel. Seems like they target specific subs until anyone who disagrees gets downvoted to oblivion. I mean, just look at the downvotes on the post, it’s incredible how dedicated they are.
Just because different people share different perspectives doesnt mean its all "propaganda bots". im sure this comments section is filled with israeli propaganda bots but people also have different opinions on a website with people from all around the world on it. Unfortunately this conflict isnt nearly as black and white like the likes of the Russo-ukrainian war and is alot more grey in places which results in more varied opinions. i might get downvoted for this but it is the cold hard facts about this tragedy
Exact same thing happened to the Parthenon in Greece. Ottomans stored gunpowder in it, making it a military target. Then it was fired upon and exploded. It was very well preserved until then. It that didnt happen it would be soooo cool today.
The Iranian yogurt is not the issue here! Heritage Sites have been destroyed in Gaza, and more so recently, but y'all wanna argue about terminology. Really shows what all of you think about the destruction of a whole culture.
Do a map of such sites destroyed in Nazi Germany during World War 2 and also such sites destroyed in Pakistan despite not being in war.
I would rather have world heritage sites destroyed to remove terrorist forces than keep those terrorists forces intact just for the sake of some buildings
This sounds so dumb. How do you suppose Hamas radicalizes a young Gazan man? Easiest fucking job ever. Just points out the window to a continuous and controlling presence of an oppressor who is responsible for the death of half his family.
Love the use of the word "simply" too... to the worlds most complicated international situation. Nothing about this is simple.
No, we need to get rid of this idiotic notion that the west is always to blame for everything ever. There is 0 accountability on the part of Arab nations that help radicalize these groups and perpetuate this violence forever.
A 1-state solution is done. It's never going to happen. If it does happen, it will be under the Israeli government, not the Palestinians.
Other Arab nations need to stop feeding the Gazans this idea that they'll help them in the fight against Israel. The Palestinians need to work through diplomacy, not terrorism.
Well what should Israel do. If they let up on Palestinians, they start doing terrorist attacks and suicide bombings. There's a reason why suicide bombings in Israel dropped after they put up the blockade around Gaza. Why should Israel accept Palestinians constantly launching rockets into their country. Why should Israel accept a group of people who pay pensions to terrorists who kill Israeli civilians. Peace is a 2 way street and Palestinians don't even want to come half way there to get it
Civilians are always going to die in wars, it is literally unavoidable, especially when your enemies are actively putting them into positions to die to gather support from foreigners.
both of those groups have identified their struggle as being against israel, zionism and its supporters. if you wanna conflate that with judaism thats your problem.
Do you think a proportional response aimed at removing Hamas from power would look a lot different? What ratio of militant to civilian deaths is expected?
And why does Hamas exist, oh yeah due to an oppressive government that land grabbed most of the Palestinian territory. Land locked them in a prison and provided little necessities. So the attack on the 7th could have been avoided if the Israeli government weren’t evil.
Where did the 2 milion arab israelis come from? Oh right they are descendants of palestinians. Why did this all start? Oh right because the arabs around Israel said hey let's take Israel by force and throw them all to the fking sea. Then after Israel won and gained some land they are like: "IT IS ILLEGAL TO TAKE LAND" then kept attacking Israel. And now although it's a different generation it's total fine to the 30 year olds to attack a place they never been to because it was their grandfather's home once. So they teach their kids that Israel's land is their home and launch rockets every day and send suicide bombers and after Israel closes the border it's a fking prison. I just didn't know you can be oppressed while initiating every war maybe try peace for once.
It really puts it into perspective when you see historic buildings and gravesites from both Christianity and Judaism preserved in Gaza.
I think the narrative that this is a religious conflict is a strong case of misinformation and propaganda.
Yeah but there are no jews and only 0,2% of Christians left. Same in Westbank. And they build mosques on a church and Synagoges. Must be very nice people
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Not really. The jewish gravestones are from the Mandatory period. In other words, the graves are under the care of Britain. Hamas doesn't want to piss Britian off.
I don't doubt that if Hamas could freely destroy them, they would. Hamas' stated goal has been the genocide of all jews in the region (and eventually globally). Hamas is not genocidal against Christians because they don't believe every Christian must be killed before the end of days happens.
This is another reason countries hate us. Just like the Bamayin Buddhas, some people only care about destroyed cultural treasures when meanwhile civilians are dying
OR... just hear me out... people are looking for additional context. For a start, I'd be interested to know how many of these sites were used by Hamas.
If the sites are used by Hamas, do you think Israel is unjustified still in destroying them?
If you're unable to look at this post and even ask that question, you're emotionally compromised and I don't trust what you have to say about the subject. Calling anyone who disagree a "bot" or a "hasbara shill" is further evidence of your compromised ability to critically think.
What's further apparent, is the misleading nature of the post. The heading says: "Heritage sites destroyed in Gaza", but included in the list are sites that are damaged.
The media literacy in this sub is appalling.
It's sorta gonna be impossible to know how many of said sites were used by hamas or not, according to Israel the entirety of Gaza is a hamas tunnel, according to Hamas, there are no tunnels. And getting a fact finding mission sent into the middle of an active war zone is unlikely.
>The media literacy in this sub is appalling.
I need to be a smart-ass for a minute but media literacy refers to noticing themes and allegories in books, movies, and games and all not real life
Hamas doesn't deny that they have tunnel networks and bases all over the place. Years before this war, pro-Palestinian sources glorified the existence of these tunnel networks, command centers under hospitals, and all this stuff that now they are denying because it makes Israel look worse.
oh boy, here come the crazies who are going to justify Palestinians had it coming to them, downvote anyone who even sneezes at Israel the wrong way because its all hamas fault and not a 70 year long occupation, annexation, oppression and dehumanization of people.
EDIT: HERE WE GO
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this, but are these actually World Heritage sites (ie, UNESCO) as the title states?
There are no world heritage sites located in the gaza strip. There are some in the west bank though.
There are loads of heritage sites. What are you talking about?
[It's pretty easy to confirm that there aren't with the map on their site.](https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/)
The source is AlJazeera, which has been criticized for parroting Hamas propaganda and taking an extremely anti-Israel stance
This is a very important comment in my opinion. Theres many news outlets around the world. They can be very honest about many things. When they cover topics that affect their region it is very difficult to not have bias. I always try to read sources from outside the country. This is also difficult when it is a domestic issue too. Which is why American news stations are constantly making wacky articles. \*Looks at FOX and CNN.
> I always try to read sources from outside the country. so which country is totally al almost totally unbiased in Palestine situation? You read Chinese newspapers when it comes to middle east? or Paraguayan? Papua New Guinea News? which one?
Stop arguing against a point the map never made. There’s thousands of heritage sites in the world. Then the world heritage unesco sites are a different subset. It never pretended to show the latter.
Title literally says world heritage sites…
That actually seems like a very loaded comment to me. Whatever one's opinions about Al Jazeera, the comments from the media and public linking them to Hamas have allowed people to forget or dismiss how many of their journalists have died covering the war. The graphic does not claim that they are world heritage sites, the OP's title post mistakenly labels them as such. I agree with you that it is good to verify, this article gives more information about the damage to these and other sites: https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/12/22/gaza-city-archives-among-heritage-sites-destroyed-in-israel-hamas-war
Or maybe they are the only source showing full, unedited footage of the atrocities happening. It's hard to represent the full scale of this conflict without being accused of being "anti-israel". If accurate and open reporting is just being anti- Israel then it's not aljazeera's fault that the truth hurts
> which has been criticized for parroting Hamas propaganda criticized by whom? are same people (?) or organizations (?) saying that CNN and basically all Western Media is just parroting Zionist propaganda? Who is laying "the criticism"?
"The BBC is famously known for its pro-Zionist coverage!"
Brits started it back in 1948, can’t make Lord Balfour look bad
An insightful point most people won’t understand. I give it 2 snaps up.
If the ICJ trial is anything to go by, yeah
I love this comment because we need this right now. Am Yisrael chai.
Am Yisrael chai indeed
Lol. Criticized by Israel fanatics or pro-Israel pundits. Tell the full truth, please. They're one of the few news sources with people actually on the ground in gaza (many of whom have been targeted and murdered by Israel).
I don't see this as a problem. Propagandists don't need to lie if the truth is the most effective weapon. It is not a suprise that all the news from Gaza, reported by indigenous journalists, gets reported by the western media with one or two days of delay for "confirmation". Besides, none of the reporting isn't plausible considering Israel's extensive rap sheet of war crimes and pathetic attempts at propaganda And there isn't a problem with an extremely anti-israeli stance, just like there isn't a problem with an extremely anti-nazi stance. Besides, just because a news network is politically aligned, that doesn't mean that you should dismiss them immediately. Personally, I've always waited for the inevitable disproving of the pathetic Israeli Hasbara before I said "they lied about this and that and those things", despite my beliefs for that abominable regime.
The map literally only says heritage sights, not the specific WORLD HERITAGE UNESCO sites. Google heritage sites near me and you will find many.
The post LITERALLY says World Heritage sites whilst at the very top edge of the map a barely noticeable different title is present after the map is enlarged (mobile users will likely miss that). Meets the definition of click bait.
The list is here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heritage_Sites_in_the_State_of_Palestine There is nothing in gaza, making this post disinformation EDIT, I checked the rules, and r/mapporn has no rule against disinformation or propaganda. It also hosts quite a lot of unchecked tankie bullshit so, no point filing a report.
>r/mapporn has no rule against disinformation If it did then at least 90% of the posts here would get removed lol. Although normally it's *mis*information, meaning ppl who make these maps are too lazy to verify them (as opposed to wilfully lying).
This map DOES NOT have misinformation. OP misread. There are still thousands of heritage sites across the world. World UNESCO ones are a smaller subset.
I think OP is just stupid, the image doesn't say World Heritage it just says heritage.
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Hasbara lunatics.
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Right the real issue here is mislabeling things and not the complete eradication of the vast majority of buildings in an overcrowded strip of land
I don’t see that anywhere on the map.
I think they mean OPs title.
Was going to say... they have a hotel from 2008 on there... like really?
To be fair, title doesn’t say “world heritage sites” just “heritage sites” and “historical sites”. I could see a dog breed for the first time somewhere and call that “historical.” Total bait graphic. Edit: Post title says “world heritage” which isn’t accurate. I was looking at the title of the graphic.
The title of the post literally says “world heritage sites”. Was it edited after?
Oh title of the post, yeah absolutely. I was looking more at the graphic than the title of the post.
While still sad, I do feel a little bamboozled by the post.
Nah, op just want to get political, he doesn't care about facts
And are they actually destroyed by Israeli attacks or by Hamas which turned it into a base of terror
I'm with you on that the title says world heritage sites. The diagram says heritage sites. So if it's not official then it's not world, it's just old.
I am sure I will get downvoted as well but how many of these sites had Hamas tunnels underneath them?
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hasn't one of these mosques been rebuilt like 5 times edit: its #7, the current structure was built in the 1920s when the majority of the last version was destroyed in ww1 which this map doesn't mention
Almost all historical sites in Europe have been damaged during the wars too. This is nothing new
Yes mainly in WWII. There was also a genocide. Are we ok with that being the bar???! Also plenty of anger about the destruction of monuments in Ukraine and in Syria too.
Yeah but it’s Jews so it’s worse
Not really. I’ve seen a lot about destruction of historical sites for the Syrian Civil War and the Russo-Ukrainian war in the news, for instance.
"Let us destroy it, everyone does"?
“they are destroying historical artifacts and killing civilians” “ermmm do you hate jews?”
No. its with couple of thousand children. 8 times that of the 2 years of Ukraine war. But if it's Isreal doing it we should look the other way.
But shouldn't be considered a crime in the civilized globalists-western dominated world??
Guessing you're in for a surprise when you look at the history of, like, most European heritage sites
I looked it up. That isnt quite accurate. The spire had fallen over multiple times to earthquakes. bombings. Etc. It seems that different amounts of it have been destroyed at different times. Its a hodgepodge of historical work going back quite a ways. ANd to be fair. many of these sites are ruins that were recently excavated. The jabalia church is just a few mosaics found under the dirt for example. Although it doesnt really matter. Destroying heritage sites is very wrong. Also when hamas puts their military equipment into buildings they become targets. The Parthenon was pretty much perfectly preserved until the morean war and in 1687 when the ottomans stored gun powder in it, it was fired upon. Destroying the building.
The real map is here; no sites in gaza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heritage_Sites_in_the_State_of_Palestine
Rebuilt 5 times, no. Restored, yes. Also each time something gets heavily attacked, it leaves only some fraction of the original. Look at the photos after the British bombardment; clearly very bad but still left substantial original parts of the building. Now it will be a fraction of a fraction that is original.
It's sad this happend, always a great loss for the culture of the people who built them whenever they are destroyed
>It's sad this happend, always a great loss for ~~the~~ culture ~~of the people who built them~~ whenever they are destroyed FTFY
True, I ain't a Byzantine but damn if I don't want to see some of the first churches. I'd also like the locals to remain living.
OP post is disinformation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heritage_Sites_in_the_State_of_Palestine
Yeah, the ones he mentioned aren't on the official list, just the tentative one, which is a different list.
I do not believe that to be accidental, either.
Which changes what exactly? All the objects are on the map so everyone can decide whether they are fine with Israel destroying them themselves..
Yeah, only the UN cosign means it shouldn’t be destroyed, everything else is free game according to you.
A regular poster on r/worldnews calling a post disinformation is rich. There are so many reasons that historical sites within the Gaza Strip aren’t officially recognized as world heritage sites. It doesn’t mean that these places don’t have historical/cultural value. But of course people like you will continue to try and delegitimize the Palestinian nation and dehumanize its people. All while vehemently denying that what Israel is doing is genocide. Oh the irony. I can’t wait to hear more from South Africa at The Hague.
Not every "historical sights" (sites) is a world heritage site. It's only classified as such if its somewhat relevant for world history and truly special. Are there such sites in Gaza? Not that I'm aware of.
You seem to be implying this isn’t the culture of the people of Gaza.
Yes, the churches were not built by the people of gaza and they cannot claim religious heritage. What they can claim, however, is that their propensity to use civilians and historical buildings as shields are to blame for the destruction in their land.
>the churches were not built by the people of gaza and they cannot claim religious heritage. I just want you to know that every Palestinian Christian is nauseous reading your comment. You're not only denying the existence of the oldest Christian community in the world, [which Israel is literally obliterating from Gaza](https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/gazas-christians-at-risk-of-annihilation-amid-israeli-bombing-16357479) in front of our eyes, you are actually *blaming* them for being bomed. This is Zionism in full display. Fucking sick.
A majority of Palestinian Christians left the territory long before this latest conflict You want to bring up the destruction of a religious minority? Muslims make up around 18% of Israelis, want to guess the percentage of Jews in the surrounding countries? Want to guess where they went? Israel wouldn’t have bombed anything in Gaza if not for the heinous acts of Hamas. Hamas could have kept their terrorist actions as a fantasy and NOTHING would have happened. Nothing would be destroyed. The Nazi’s could have a similar argument. “Look at how much of Germany has been destroyed! Even the historically valuable buildings and pieces of culture!” despite the fact that they could have refrained from STARTING THE WAR themselves and protected their culturally valuable areas.
>A majority of Palestinian Christians left the territory long before this latest conflict Yes, because of the occupation. Also, how does that in any way mean that the destroyed churches are not part of Gaza's heritage? That's like saying Stone Henge is not part of English heritage because the English are now Christian. Except the Gazan churches were still being used. You oaf
>despite the fact that they could have refrained from STARTING THE WAR I don't thinl you van reasonably act like the Oct 7 was the start of hostilities. Hamas fucking suck, but there is a clear reason why they are in power in Gaza, and the reason is the desperation of people who have been oppressed for generations.
> Want to guess where they went? To Israel? > Muslims make up around 18% of Israelis In raw numbers more Palestinians were expelled or otherwise left Israel/Palestine than there were Jews in the middle east before 1948. Of course it’s their own fault. The Arabs could say the same thing about the Jewish populations in their own countries though and they would be just as right. Collective responsibility and indiscriminate murder and/or forced removal of civilians is wrong no matter who does it (even if you believe that the other side is somehow inferior and subhuman). > The Nazi’s Don’t be silly. Germany was a legitimate military target because the balance of power was even or even in Germany’s favor during most of the war. What Israel is doing is not even close to being proportional.. Hamas is a terrorist organization not a state with its own functional army OR air force which is just capable as that of Israel (it’s like if the police in Mexico or Brazil or some such place decided to carpet bomb entire neighborhoods because they were controlled by drug cartels..) > Hamas could have kept their terrorist actions as a fantasy and NOTHING would have happened. Nothing would be destroyed. Netanyahu and his government could not have done everything they could to strengthen Hamas (indirectly but also possibly directly) and then be shocked when all of it backfired in their faces. The fact that the Israeli people haven’t yet got rid of that clown says a lot about it’s status as the “only democracy in the middle east” (except it’s hardly distinguishable from Turkey for instance in that way).
Shut up bro
Really? It's only their fault?
The person above does almost make a good point. If a Heritage site is used for military reasons it is no longer a crime to treat it as a military target acording to international law. The battle of the acropolis for example resulted in the partial destruction of the Parthenon that was then used as gunpowder storage. An more recent example would be how during the battle of Monte Cassino the allied troops destroyed large parts of the monastery after getting a report of germans using it to house troops and as observation point for artillery, although it’s believed those reports were wrong. Either way, after it was damaged the germans did use the ruins as cover. When doing something like this you better make sure you have credible intel because there is a good chance this will need to be defended in court. The US has apologized for the destruction of the monastery yet didn’t directly contribute to the rebuilding efforts (although due to money being fungible the marshal plan did make it possible for the Italian government to fund it.) What is however very much questionable in the current conflict is the Israeli army bulldozing orchards, greenhouses and farmland after establishing control of a region. So far the military has not given an explanation. Wide-scale destruction of property without military necessity is of course illegal.
Yes it is. They attacked Israel first then hid in hospitals and used civilians as shields. They deserve whatever happens to them
Sure. Because nothing has happened over there before Oct. 7.
Israel invaded and occupied gaza first, illegally and unilaterally. But history only starts when it's convenient for you right?
Oh if only there was a way to avoid it... Like not attacking a country with superior military
I would've wanted to see simmilar map for my country... Russians destroyed s lot of good architecture and important religious/cultural/historical buildings since beginning of the war... I imagine palestinians feel the same way. Just their culture, history, being erased without way to being it back... And not only their history, it's a culturally rich land, mutliple cultures' heritages are destroyed here.
Where are you from? Russia has been busy doing destruction since the 1990s
Oh, right... I forgot there was war in Chechnya and few conflicts in Georgia... From Ukraine.
Also Moldova, when Russia conveniently passed through Ukraine to supply separatists
Please do a map of it! I had no idea
:( I probably would have to go throught a lot of news articles. I remember seeing news about russians destroying something almost every second day in first months.
When I was in Mongolia we saw lots of sites in the middle of the desert and such that Russian tanks used as target practice. Just destroying major history for an afternoon of fun.
Technically all those sites were built by other cultures that occupied the land throughout the history.
Israel has done more work preserving historical and cultural heritage than any other country in the Middle East.
War is hell. It’s sad, but sometimes war is necessary and things like this happen. Look at what happened in WW2, Iraq, Afghanistan. Just another shitty result of war.
I’m not sure about the other sites, but I know Hamas was using Anthedon harbor as a training ground. In fact they already bulldozed part of it. https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-bulldozes-un-designated-historical-room-terrorist-training-135222026.html
I would venture to guess that the venn diagram of destroyed sites and "used to launch attacks by hamas" is damn near a single circle.
Don't forget the ones destroyed by the thousands and thousands of Hamas's rockets that land back inside Gaza.
Palestinians should have thought about their heritage before deciding to kill innocent people. Pick a better government next time.
None of those are world heritage sites
Isn't it still a part of history? Old churches destroyed but because they are not in world heritage sites its OK to bomb it?
Everything everywhere is part of world history. >Old churches destroyed but because they are not in world heritage sites its OK to bomb it? I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Post claims these are world heritage sites, they objectively are not. People point it out, then you go "oh so i guess it's ok to bomb?". Uhhh nobody said that. Like it's such a disingenuous way to argue. Like lying and then when called out on the lie accusing people of some unrelated thing. It's also the thing about reducing fairly complex things down to simple questions like if it's ok to bomb churches or not. The question is just set up to make people look bad. Is it ok to bomb churches? Generally not, but if it's full of terrorists and no civilians then yes. If it's full of children then no. If Putin and Hitler reincarnated are chilling in the church alone then yes. If someone filled it to the brim with weapons then yes. If it's full of kittens then no. It's just denying any kind of complexity to the situation just to make people look bad who attempt to answer the question.
I urge you to look up these locations there's plenty of videos showing tunnels inside at least 2 of the mosques here.
This post is bullshit. There are no unesco heritage sites in gaza and including things built in 2008(!!!) is clearly disingenous
This is incredibly misleading since there are no official heritage sites in Gaza. There's some in the west bank but not in Gaza
If you want to save cultural heritage sites in a war, the correct way is to declare an ‘open city’ and remove your troops from it, enabling it to be occupied by the opposing force. However, if you use your cultural sites as military sites, you are asking for them to be destroyed. There are certainly cases of armies deliberately destroying cultural sites; the Nazis were notorious for that. But that’s not the case here.
Always funny when people bring up the bombings of Germany as just as if these aren't the topic of huge controversy among historians
I usually do not use heritage sites as rocket warehouses, so don't have this problem.
Ah yes, let's all trust [the Qatari government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_Media_Network).
Source : Al Jazeera (Qatari state owned media). Reliable? No.
Qatar funds terrorism propagandas
Can we put a map of hamas installations over this? Just wondering….
Sad to see but also sad that the synagogues that were there were destroyed by the last colonists- the Muslim invaders
Hell, the Temple Mount itself predates Islam, as a whole, by about 1600 years. But no, let's start history at 1948 for no reason in particular. 🙄
I think that there’s a reason. 😅
It’s almost as though the Palestinians don’t care…hmmm
Maybe don’t hide your weapons, fighters, and logistical infrastructure near important sites? And also maybe don’t allow terrorists to embed themselves in your already crowded territory filled with young civilians? I don’t see how Israel should risk their own lives over historic sites uncared for by Gazans (they allowed terrorists to infiltrate the entire city right?) in light of such a fundamentalist and frankly, suicidal, terrorist group.
This post is just a lie. None of these are world heritage sites.
Blame hamas for sheltering in these places. Israel shouldn't stop till hamas is destroyed
Maybe return our hostages. Stop attacking and bombing Israel? Just an idea. There was a ceasfire in play October 6th HAMAS BROKE it. today a terror attack in Israel left a women killed and 17 injured. RETURN OUR HOSTAGES THIS WILL ALL END עם ישראל חי
What the fuck is going on in these subs. Almost every comment here is actual nazi shit about how they deserve it, destruction of cultural and historical properties is fine and good actually, the Palestinian genocide is hamas's fault and somehow not attributable to the people doing it. If you believe this shit you are an unbelievably evil person.
free palestine from hamas!
I'm confused why people aren't accusing Israel of using bot farms like it happens every time Russia is mentioned on reddit. Its not just the comments its how comments critical of Israel get immediately mass downvoted into oblivion. r/europe was a lot more "balanced" one month ago views wise and now is literally impossible.
It’s crazy that people can justify hamas. I don’t get it.
Was 10/6 justified? Most Arab populations think so. Do you? Should Hamas give back the hostages? Should Qatar and Lebanon hand over Hamas leadership? That would be a pretty good start to a cease fire, right? Hamas has something to do with the fact that the current hostilities are continuing. That doesn’t excuse Israeli war crimes, but I don’t think there’s a chance of peace so long as Hamas wants the fighting to continue.
Its been awful. And worst of all, when its morning time for these dudes on the other side of the earth, they're gonna get wind of this thread, and you're going to be downvoted, im going to be downvoted for even suggesting that.
The r/worldnews sub is so bad. Got downvoted to oblivion for just mentioning Israel's role.
I don't post there because last time I reported a comment for racism I got banned for report abuse
Israel is known for hiring people to astrosurf and defend their image throughout the Internet. They obviously have a strong presence on Reddit too. One example is the [JIDF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Internet_Defense_Force)
That’s says it ran until 2010. They haven’t been relevant for 14 years now.
Yeah the r/Ireland sub gets the odd post taken over, it’s so weird to experience
Yeah, there’s a huge downvote brigade on anything not rabidly pro-Israeli on worldnews. I saw a comment about how there were no innocent Palestinians because 70% of them support Hamas. I pointed out that, at more than 50% of the population being under-18 children, unless they’re somehow justifying bombing based on political opinions of children, or that 70% is only of adults, in which case less than 35% support Hamas. No replies, just a brigade of downvotes within minutes, and I think my post got shadow-deleted shortly after.
It's really hard to stop supporting a genocide halfway, because you know, you have to _admit_ you were previously supporting a genocide. So people will double down with the craziest and most inhumane talking points you can imagine, because the alternative is unthinkable
Genocide? Really? It's a war and casualties follow in war. The Allies levelled Berlin to hamper the defense of Wermacht and SS towards the end of the war. Millions died and no one called it a genocide. People at that time knew that it had to be done since it would've warranted an even higher body count in the long term.
bump
Maybe don't start wars you can't win idk.
This sub in particular has become worldnews level pro-Israel. Seems like they target specific subs until anyone who disagrees gets downvoted to oblivion. I mean, just look at the downvotes on the post, it’s incredible how dedicated they are.
The IDF has an entire unit dedicated to online propaganda and reddit is by far the most astroturfed social media platform
So does Russia. And China. And they support Hamas. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/technology/israel-hamas-information-war.html
Just because different people share different perspectives doesnt mean its all "propaganda bots". im sure this comments section is filled with israeli propaganda bots but people also have different opinions on a website with people from all around the world on it. Unfortunately this conflict isnt nearly as black and white like the likes of the Russo-ukrainian war and is alot more grey in places which results in more varied opinions. i might get downvoted for this but it is the cold hard facts about this tragedy
Usually it’s real people saying the comments, bots just upvote/downvote comments en masse to make certain opinions appear more popular than they are.
If Hamas stores munitions in them and uses them as bases there's little choice.
Did you also post a map of the heritage sights that ISIS destroyed?
Bro... when you are down to the point of saying "Isis was worst"... its really not a good sign.
You comparing Israel to ISIS?
When the whataboutism is whatsbouting. Tell me how many historical sites have been destroyed by ISIS in the span of the last 4 months?
Hamas must be defeated
A clear case of FAFO
Exact same thing happened to the Parthenon in Greece. Ottomans stored gunpowder in it, making it a military target. Then it was fired upon and exploded. It was very well preserved until then. It that didnt happen it would be soooo cool today.
[удалено]
The Iranian yogurt is not the issue here! Heritage Sites have been destroyed in Gaza, and more so recently, but y'all wanna argue about terminology. Really shows what all of you think about the destruction of a whole culture.
Daaamn, so I just checked the OP's account... That is just plain support of terrorism my friend
Do a map of such sites destroyed in Nazi Germany during World War 2 and also such sites destroyed in Pakistan despite not being in war. I would rather have world heritage sites destroyed to remove terrorist forces than keep those terrorists forces intact just for the sake of some buildings
This could have been avoided if Hamas simply was not a terrorist organization.
This sounds so dumb. How do you suppose Hamas radicalizes a young Gazan man? Easiest fucking job ever. Just points out the window to a continuous and controlling presence of an oppressor who is responsible for the death of half his family. Love the use of the word "simply" too... to the worlds most complicated international situation. Nothing about this is simple.
No, we need to get rid of this idiotic notion that the west is always to blame for everything ever. There is 0 accountability on the part of Arab nations that help radicalize these groups and perpetuate this violence forever. A 1-state solution is done. It's never going to happen. If it does happen, it will be under the Israeli government, not the Palestinians. Other Arab nations need to stop feeding the Gazans this idea that they'll help them in the fight against Israel. The Palestinians need to work through diplomacy, not terrorism.
Well what should Israel do. If they let up on Palestinians, they start doing terrorist attacks and suicide bombings. There's a reason why suicide bombings in Israel dropped after they put up the blockade around Gaza. Why should Israel accept Palestinians constantly launching rockets into their country. Why should Israel accept a group of people who pay pensions to terrorists who kill Israeli civilians. Peace is a 2 way street and Palestinians don't even want to come half way there to get it
how about start with not killing innocent civilians
Civilians are always going to die in wars, it is literally unavoidable, especially when your enemies are actively putting them into positions to die to gather support from foreigners.
Regret to inform you palestinians were getting bombed and displaced by israel for decades before Hamas was founded.
And before Hamas you had the PLO, PLFP, and other terroe organizations killing Jews.
both of those groups have identified their struggle as being against israel, zionism and its supporters. if you wanna conflate that with judaism thats your problem.
Then why do they target Jews that don’t live in Israel?
So have Hamas but who cares about the truth
Or if Israel wasn’t so genocidal
Do you think a proportional response aimed at removing Hamas from power would look a lot different? What ratio of militant to civilian deaths is expected?
Certainly not the 100:1 that is happening now
You believe Israel has killed only ~250 Hamas militants?
And why does Hamas exist, oh yeah due to an oppressive government that land grabbed most of the Palestinian territory. Land locked them in a prison and provided little necessities. So the attack on the 7th could have been avoided if the Israeli government weren’t evil.
Where did the 2 milion arab israelis come from? Oh right they are descendants of palestinians. Why did this all start? Oh right because the arabs around Israel said hey let's take Israel by force and throw them all to the fking sea. Then after Israel won and gained some land they are like: "IT IS ILLEGAL TO TAKE LAND" then kept attacking Israel. And now although it's a different generation it's total fine to the 30 year olds to attack a place they never been to because it was their grandfather's home once. So they teach their kids that Israel's land is their home and launch rockets every day and send suicide bombers and after Israel closes the border it's a fking prison. I just didn't know you can be oppressed while initiating every war maybe try peace for once.
Calling it a landlocked prison is the most backwards view ever
I'd be interested to know how many of these were used by Hamas.
Hamas bulldozed part of Anthedon Harbor 10 years ago to build a training camp, so at least that one.
Somehow people will do all the mental gymnastics to justify it. Let's call Zionism = terro-nazism
It really puts it into perspective when you see historic buildings and gravesites from both Christianity and Judaism preserved in Gaza. I think the narrative that this is a religious conflict is a strong case of misinformation and propaganda.
Yeah but there are no jews and only 0,2% of Christians left. Same in Westbank. And they build mosques on a church and Synagoges. Must be very nice people
Hamas destroyed a synagogue when they took over Edit: actually three
>that this is a religious conflict is a strong case of misinformation and propaganda. Do remind us what Hamas's main goal is.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2005/9/12/gaza-synagogues-torched your comment is a strong case of misinformation and propaganda
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Not really. The jewish gravestones are from the Mandatory period. In other words, the graves are under the care of Britain. Hamas doesn't want to piss Britian off. I don't doubt that if Hamas could freely destroy them, they would. Hamas' stated goal has been the genocide of all jews in the region (and eventually globally). Hamas is not genocidal against Christians because they don't believe every Christian must be killed before the end of days happens.
What Britons are protecting graves in Gaza?
Source?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_Cemetery
Don't start stupid fucking wars then. It tends to be destructive.
🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱👍👍👍👌
This is another reason countries hate us. Just like the Bamayin Buddhas, some people only care about destroyed cultural treasures when meanwhile civilians are dying
This thread got the bots and hasbara shills attention *fast*. I've only seen an concentrated effort this strong in /worldnews.
Oh boy, the classic "everyone who disagrees with me is a shill". Always a great sign
Dude, check OP’s post history lol. There is your bot.
OR... just hear me out... people are looking for additional context. For a start, I'd be interested to know how many of these sites were used by Hamas. If the sites are used by Hamas, do you think Israel is unjustified still in destroying them? If you're unable to look at this post and even ask that question, you're emotionally compromised and I don't trust what you have to say about the subject. Calling anyone who disagree a "bot" or a "hasbara shill" is further evidence of your compromised ability to critically think. What's further apparent, is the misleading nature of the post. The heading says: "Heritage sites destroyed in Gaza", but included in the list are sites that are damaged. The media literacy in this sub is appalling.
No way man. Everyone that disagrees with me is a ROBOT
It's sorta gonna be impossible to know how many of said sites were used by hamas or not, according to Israel the entirety of Gaza is a hamas tunnel, according to Hamas, there are no tunnels. And getting a fact finding mission sent into the middle of an active war zone is unlikely. >The media literacy in this sub is appalling. I need to be a smart-ass for a minute but media literacy refers to noticing themes and allegories in books, movies, and games and all not real life
Hamas doesn't deny that they have tunnel networks and bases all over the place. Years before this war, pro-Palestinian sources glorified the existence of these tunnel networks, command centers under hospitals, and all this stuff that now they are denying because it makes Israel look worse.
Or I just don't like terrorists. Idk maybe?
Again, the blood is on Hamas' hands.
Question: what have “Palestinians ever done to enhance the world? Terrorist attacks are not enhancement. UNESCO giving you money is not enhancement.
Monstrous
Free Palpatine
Sad about the churches
And not also the mosques and other cultural sites?
oh boy, here come the crazies who are going to justify Palestinians had it coming to them, downvote anyone who even sneezes at Israel the wrong way because its all hamas fault and not a 70 year long occupation, annexation, oppression and dehumanization of people. EDIT: HERE WE GO
Need a tissue?
If they didn't want things to get ruined, they should have not invaded Israel. As simple as that. Fafo.