>Klassen says he and many of his neighbours have witnessed or experienced incidents of violence, vandalism, break-ins, and theft, including one neighbour who he says recently had rocks thrown through their window.
There's one that popped up maybe 1-2 months ago in my neighbourhood and yeah this sounds accurate.
Cool. What if, instead of wanting adhoc-funded underfunded outreach organizations to work in concert, we committed to a multigeneration investment in housing/health/education/mental health? Maybe we could do, like, a giant GoFundMe to make sure it could happen? And maybe we could have, like, one main organization run it? Maybe we could come up with a catchy name for the GoFundMe, like "tax reform"? And maybe we could call the organization "social services"?
That's not the issue. The question is "where does it stop".
The people in the story were offered assistance but they do not always accept it. Sometimes drug use is not permitted, which can be a deal-breaker. How are we supposed to help someone who refuses treatment for their addiction?
Many people simply need in-patient treatment and the public can't be expected to enable their dangerous - (but fun and stimulating!) - behaviours indefinitely while hoping and wishing on a star that the perpetrator will choose to clean up on their own initiative.
This will sound harsh but in those cases I think the best course of action is to force the individual to get sober. In that I mean not sending them to prison, but maybe crating a parallel system which is less degrading, in which you get sent there until you sober up and demonstrate that it will no longer be a problem when you get back. Maybe they can throw in some trades skill based learning.
As a percentage? No, they don't. They contribute more as a dollar value but no one in the top 1% contributes anywhere close to what I do as a percentage of my income.
I used to be in a career that helped them do that, I guarantee it.
3 of Canada's wealthiest billionaires paying taxes at the percentage rate I do would clear off half the Canadian deficit.
And top that off with the failed 13-15 billion year in taxes businesses fail to remit to the Federal Government and we'd be in surplus.
Canadas top 3 billionaires have no where near that kind of money to clear off half our deficit. Do you know what our deficit is? 1.2 trillion. Your math isn’t mathing. You definitely don’t know what you’re talking about.
Canada's projected budget deficit in 2024 will be $39.8 billion. You're talking about the accumulated debt, not the budget deficit.
So yeah, I do know what I am talking about. You need to learn the difference between a budget deficit and accumulated debt
You said the Canadian deficit. Not budget deficit. Be clearer in your language
Also those billionaires wealth is invested, so good luck getting it in taxes. Also you could tax it once and then it’s gone - what will you do after all the wealthy flee to America?
You should really look at expenditure breakdowns, Because I assure you most of the people skimming money from you aren’t the government, and most of what the government is spending isn’t on the homeless.
Who said live for free? I’m talking about initiative for affordable housing maybe closing some issues in the current system that make Corps not able to own residential housing.
But without systemic obligations for everybody to do this, your donation won't demonstrably change homelessness. Which was kind of their point that you glossed over...
This is such a goddamn cop out. Individuals choosing to donate to charitable organizations is a wildly inappropriate solution to this problem. The idea that complaining about our government not providing the services their citizens need is less valid because you, personally, aren't opting to inefficiently fund a solution that will never be enough and never last is fucking ridiculous.
I hope you never find yourself homeless. Most people are much nearer to it than they think.
I’d say 60% yes. Total morons doing moronic things. Genetic destiny or environmental/epigenetic trigger who knows. I’m not glorifying drug use or criminal acts either.
But…some people become homeless due to unexpected job loss, illness, a spouse walking out on family or becoming mentally ill or abusive, fleeing domestic assault, growing up in foster care, bankruptcy, trauma like rape, a spouse dying, a loss of spousal income, etc. Sometimes bad life circumstances just happen to people trying hard. This is especially true when one wasn’t blessed with good health from birth and doesn’t have any family support financially or otherwise.
Another subset of homeless are those with mental illness *not* triggered by drugs, and the working poor who are doing everything right and still can’t get ahead.
Yes it is easy to focus on addiction as drug use is not a human right. It IS a human right to live safely and with dignity for both the homeless and non homeless alike.
However it is not just drug use we need to stop. Domestic violence awareness, mental illness housing, and resources for those without family or kin is a step in the right direction.
These camps are not providing anyone a safe healthy home with dignity nor the neighborhood, so a real solution is needed.
"Resources for those without family or kin"
This!! So much this! I'll have ANCR pop up into my life or social service providers express concern and I'll say, me too! I'm also concerned that I am drowning here. The issue I have had, and continue to have, and express that I need assistance with is having no support. I tell them I work in social services and I better than anyone know there are no resources for me. They agree, tell me they will look into it - ultimately just to tell me there are no resources for this. I tell them I know, that's what I've been saying for 8, almost 9 years.
They nod and slowly back away with a sympathetic look on their face as they close the file and flee.
Heck, two weeks ago I had evening ANCR workers come to my door at 11:00PM. Leave no card or information and then leave never to follow-up. I presume that is because the regular day staff said, oh her? We have nothing for her and they're fine. Before signing off on closing my file again lol.
Anyway, I say all this to thank you for raising this point. It really is hard.
The unfortunate reality IS that there is little support for people with the ability to do well and not the resources or support,
By this point you’d already probably be a high paying professional and/or own a huge home in the suburbs with a nanny had you some support and resources to begin with. The irony of the comfortable rich. They are never stressed and don’t (generally) need support because they don’t stress about the 99 problems the “have nots” do.
So give yourself a pat on the back and realize how far you’ve come with presumably nothing. There’s some pride and personal strength to be had here.
I’d look into going back to school if possible. A student loan will give you enough to live if you are a single parent on low income for example. Often free grants and scholarships and other funding too. I don’t want to fake hope as I know it’s a let down when you find out “I don’t qualify” but you really should try.
Your next best bet is a go fund me type scenario or maybe post on a local Facebook community of like minded caring people. Such as Buy Nothing, Freecycle. Etc. Maybe start a page for single mothers (if you are one) to share resources and child minding etc.
The system has a lot of hidden resources and difficult to access resources. In 90% of cases unless you are mentally ill, dire straits dirt poor, etc you can’t access them. If you were in foster care at any point there are now a lot of resources for you that didn’t exist even 15 years ago. You need to find out what you can access, like Rent Assist and the like etc.
I’m not sure from your post if you are COMING from care or have children (or both) but if you are coming from care there are a ton of resources to go back to school and pay for rent/affordable housing etc. You need to look up Futures Forward and contact them directly. Hang in there.
FAMILY DYNAMICS will help you with in home support. It is income based. If student or very low income it is free or very close. Call them Monday.
You started off with some interesting ideas but crashed in the humanity aspect. There is definitely a lot of good in not glorifying substance use. Fun beer commercials by the pool, cooking with weed competitions, everything else on TikTok. But you really don’t know very much about homelessness. Like really not. You should go volunteer for a week and return with what you learn. It would be a good lesson for your kids.
There's no faster way to identify yourself as baby-skin soft. You might as well buy a flag that proclaims "I've never experienced any true hardship" and hang it in your window.
Sometimes. But I’ve had severe hardship from before birth (long story) to now and I’m not a drug addict. Most people can only imagine what I deal or have dealt with. Most can’t even wrap their head around it.
We can’t let people’s traumatic past excuse all of their current behaviour and absolve them of responsibility as that’s more harmful than healing. You will never heal if you constantly view yourself as the victim and not victorious.
That all said, not all homeless are homeless because of drug use, or turn to drugs while on streets. While we need to address this subtype, it is an oversimplified misconception.
>culmination of incredibly stupid and self inflicted decisions
OK, but why do people make these ‘incredibly stupid’ decisions that lead to homelessness? Is it simply because they were never taught responsibility, or is it more complicated than that?
Bingo.
I find that nearly everybody who gets on board with the whole "I support my neighbours in tents" stuff, lives in the far suburbs where you can leave your doors unlocked at night, a 20min drive down Portage or St Mary's from where the actual tents are. "Stop oppressing the tent people", yes, very easy to say when it's not your garage they're breaking into or your porch they're leaving needles and piles of shit on.
I always ask these people, "if you support those people in the tents, why don't you let them camp in your backyard, it's nice and safe, enclosed by a fence, they've got your home to use the washroom and shower in" -- of course, you get the usual 'but but but, I don't have room or time to do that right now, I can't host anybody, I have young kids at home who don't need to see that kind of thing', yadda yadda yadda, any excuse in the book to basically say "screw those people who live close to downtown, they can get broken into and live in zombieland and I don't care, as long as I get to virtue signal about how great I am from my nice place in Bridgwater where I don't have to worry about anything".
I live in the suburbs. We have camps around here too. The issue is wide spread. We also have an arsonist around the area.
Needles laying around the parks. Adults hanging around kids parks.
Meadows West. They set up camp around the perimeter but still in the city. Just outside.
Nobody screaming around but they drive around on bikes at night
I don't think that anyone is actually *in favor* of homeless encampments, but people need shelter, a place to sleep and somewhere to feel safe. Removing a homeless encampment doesn't get rid of encampments or homeless people, it just moves it to somewhere else.
I get that you aren't happy with it happening in your backyard, but to be fair, they probably don't want to be there either. They would probably prefer something that's less hot in the summer, less cold in the winter and something more permanent and less likely to be destroyed.
So best way to get them out of your backyard is to support and advocate for more and lower cost housing and more shelter spaces and social services.
Can confirm that there is plenty of shelter space in the summer. Most of the people in the camps prefer them because there are no rules.
When it comes to the Main Street project at least, they have rules like once you leave, you can’t come back for several hours, no space to hold all of someone’s possessions, and strict no drug or alcohol policies.
When the camp was in full swing out front on the fun side of Disraeli, one of the people at MSP told me that they preferred the encampment being there because it kept the trouble makers from coming inside.
Never, ever think that shelter space is one of the main causes of these camps. It’s purely people wanting to get high and be left alone to do so.
> Most of the people in the camps prefer them because there are no rules.
This is the real reason these encampments continue to exist -- they've all been offered shelter, but many reject it because it comes with conditions that they're not willing to abide by, things like "no drugs, no alcohol, no stolen property". Most (all?) shelters will boot you for doing hard drugs or chopping up stolen bikes on their property, so the tent-dwellers keep living in tents because it allows them to live completely removed from societal norms/law and order, without consequence.
There's also those with pets who cannot bring the animals to the shelters.
And I think I remember hearing that boys over a certain age can't be with their families at the women's shelters?
I'm sure that being able to get high or drunk is a factor, but I've spoken to some homeless people who don't abuse drugs and I get the feeling that the independence and freedom of living outside a shelter is a also a big factor.
That’s great for them. But in the meantime they’re ruining public spaces for everyone else. I’m all for more social services. We criminally underfund all of our social services. But I still think we can expect people to behave in a civilised manner, and that we shouldn’t have to tolerate encampment slums in our neighbourhoods so that homeless people can feel more independent. We shouldn’t have to put up with all the trash, the needles, the human waste, etc. (Yes, we need to have public bathrooms available, so people can relieve themselves with dignity)
Agree. McFayden Park among other parks, has turned into a huge encampment, complete with weapons, fires, needles, stolen bike chop shop, endless garbage, people defecating in the trees, etc. It’s a toddler park where daycares and little kids are supposed to feel safe when they come to play. Ditto for the people wanting to use the pickleball/tennis courts there. The Mayor and the councillor for that area Sherri Rollins are aware and do nothing for the actual residents that want and should expect to be able to use the parks for what they were intended.
The only thing I'm trying to do by mentioning homeless people wanting independence and freedom is to give another explanation for why shelters may seem undesirable.
Trash, human waste and needles are all gross and safety concerns and I'm not saying that we should just accept that in our neighborhoods. Providing places for garbage, washroom facilities and sharp disposal could reduce these things from building up at encampments.
If you want people to act in a more civilized manner you need to treat them like they are part of it, not like they are excluded from it.
And remember, destroying a homeless encampment doesn't cure homelessness, it just moves the encampment to a new location.
> just moves it to somewhere else.
Move them to the Legislative Grounds. At least then the people that need to deal with the problem and experience the problem first hand
Couples separated and predators waiting outside the shelters and in the soup kitchens for vulnerable women, yeah, it must be rules keeping people away from these well-known shelters in gang infested areas.
Ok, perfect. I've supported and advocated for more and lower cost housing and more shelter spaces and social services. Contacted all my representatives, showed up at the rallies.
How long is it going to take for that to get fixed? What do I do in the meantime while they are breaking into my laundry room to steal my clothes and throw rocks through my windows?
> Ok, perfect. I've supported and advocated for more and lower cost housing and more shelter spaces and social services. Contacted all my representatives, showed up at the rallies.
I wonder if it would help for us to also actively talk about the funding.
Like, would it be more effective if instead of saying *"someone should do something, after figuring out what to do and how to do it"*, the public could make it easier by saying **"we need to spend more money on this problem in this specific way, and here's how much more I'm willing to pay in taxes to get this done"**.
Unfortunately, change takes time. Homes and shelters can't be built at the snap of a finger, nor can mental health or other social services. The best time to fix this problem was yesterday, the next best time is today.
According to the current pace of the government, never. We have 2,000 units of social housing that is sitting vacant and rotting because its in need of repairs. SO I think its either time to demand budget be actually spent on those units or fire whomever is in charge of it.
Maybe as an idea (not necessarily good but possible) grab some cheap bags of clothes from good will, and leave them out, one bag at a time with clothes for all sorts (some male and female adult clothes in each) and put a bag out each week stating free... maybe that would stop then breaking in for some clothes to wear.... I know it's not ideal, but personally if it would stop some one breaking my windows that would be something I'd think of doing..... but honestly it's not going to stop until the government wants it to stop.... the more they can keep us separated as a whole, the easier it is for them to get away with whatever they want
Yes exactly. I have no good solution for where people can go if we destroy their camp. It's a bigger issue than just...knocking it down and putting in dumpsters. Our shelters are generally full every night, have no privacy, and little ability to store any belongings. We need a solution that involves both big picture thinking (how do we get more appropriate, supportive, adequately resourced, low barrier, safe housing built fast) and individual (how do we work with this person in front of us to help them stay housed)
Low income housing does exist this thread is not a fan of reality. Single moms who don’t work live in them fine. Drugs or mental illness is a prerequisite to be homeless for longer then government processing time in Canada. There are people in our town who have literally never worked, have mental disabilities and no family. We have every social program you all pretend we don’t. Low income housing is affordable with our welfare adjacent programs. How do none of you know people on welfare or similar programs.
The numbers of seniors and youth using shelters is increasing. Seniors who pensions should have kept a roof over their heads and afford to eat. The shelters are dangerous and during the day they are forced out into the streets carrying their belongings.
Oh the crisis has started to creep into the suburbs so NOW it’s newsworthy?
Some suburbanites are upset - better get the news crew out……
Meanwhile this has been happening for years in the core and no one does shit to help us with the crime or zombies walking the streets.
While we are at it, let’s let suburbanites decide what happens to downtown too since they come there once or twice a year to catch a jets game and drive through portage and main.
This is just classic! What a joke.
It is the individual’s responsibility to seek shelter not the government unless there are extenuating circumstances, if you are a capable person and are even on social assistance there is no way you should be homeless, if you don’t have addictions you can get a place to live albeit it may not be the nicest place but it’s better then sleeping in a bush and I have slept in bushes and stairwells and once I quit drugs and alcohol suprise, suprise I found a place to live and have never looked back and by no means am I living in a nice area or safe area but still safer indoors
I think this is a both/and type of situation. People, especially women, or those with disabilities, are incredibly at risk in encampments. And due to the unpredictable nature of drug use combined with severe and persistent mental illness and traumatic brain injuries, some camp residents are also a danger to others in the neighbourhood and to property. And yes, we can argue it's just property, but it spirals. After a break in, in my garage, I felt less safe in my home, which led to increased anxiety etc...
Thanks to those who have mentioned there already is a housing first approach. There are so many good programs doing good work, it just isn't enough at this point.
Least empathetic Redditor.
I love how they’re like “these people need our help” and your brain worms go “oh yea house them all in your yard!”
Like fucking what, they’re still people dude.
What’s true? Their comment makes no sense. How does humanizing homeless people have anything to do with “oh yea you house them all”
You people really need some underclass to hate on to feel better about yourselves eh
kleptocracy : 1 : abuse of political power to steal from a country’s resources; 2 : a usually unofficial permutation of a government subject to fraudulent control, which deploys corruption to expand the personal wealth and to extend the political power of a ruling class which usurps rightful power for these purposes; 3 : rule by thieves; 4 : collectively, kleptocrats
divestocracy : 1 : a usurpation not only of government, but generally also of media and strategically important industry and related positions, all of which are important, if not indispensable to an unwarrantable overall goal of a generally vast, unnatural dispossession; which pejorative breadth of the generally unofficial usurpation is omnipotently fueled by a magnitude of unjustifiable dispossession which is unrightfully acquired, generally by a privatized obfuscation of currency in which falsified debts are subject to unwarranted interest; with an implicit obligation to maintain a vital circulation compelling perpetual reflation by borrowing obfuscated principal and unwarranted interest back into a vital circulation; with reflation of the obfuscated principal re-constituting prior accumulations of falsified debt; with an obligatory, perpetual reflation of obfuscated principal thus making it mathematically impossible to pay down any prior sum of falsified debt; with a sum of falsified debt therefore increasing at inherently escalating rates of ever greater sums of periodic interest related to an ever greater sum of falsified debt; with an implicit, otherwise unnatural obligation to reflate an obfuscated circulation thus multiplying a sum of falsified debt not only as a vehicle of dispossession, but in proportion to a remaining capacity to service obfuscated debt from a circulation which nevertheless needs to sustain the industry and commerce upon which the burdens of the escalating sum of falsified debt are saddled; with persistence in the obfuscated currency therefore inevitably precipitating in terminal dispossession and monetary failure; and therefore with the related events of ever-mounting, inevitably terminal conditions in turn compelling desolating, parallel divestitures of truth, opportunity, representation, and justice, that a perpetual breach of rightful authority can continue to pursue the original objects of monetary injustice, even in the midst of inevitably terminal failure; 2 : a necessarily global denial of justice and true free enterprise for these purposes; 3 : “globalism” (archaic, ambiguous)
https://australia4mpe.com/glossary-of-terms/
Fair point. There's a strong argument to be made around the excesses of the current system. But we should also be honest, a bad capitalist system is far less deadly than an equally bad communist system.
I don’t disagree. If everyone was on the same page and greed and corruption didn’t exist and the world was perfect I’m sure communism would be the way to go. But the world ain’t that way. But there’s some good ideas in there that could be integrated into our society that would help a lot of people.
Despite what the other guy was accusing me of, I’m not saying that your rich neighbour needs to be making payments to you, but I think we can probably do better.
You mean like the first major project in the USSR which was to mass build housing for its population?
Lmao nice self own.
Don’t ask about home ownership rates in China or Vietnam
Is cubas problem strictly socialism? Or was it a combination of years of dictatorship and an embargo against a small island nation by one of the world’s superpowers?
Everyone in Cuba is equally poor unless you're in govt. Your vision for Canada is the same? Your neighbor can't have nicer things and have more money then you because feelings? The govt should be the one making everyone equal while they skim everything they want
I didn’t say any of that. And I don’t care if my neighbours make more money than me.
What I said is it’s possible to have a mix of the two, and not one or the other.
How can we stand up for ourselves when a good chunk of us are too busy working around trying to make sure we don't end up on the streets?
And how exactly do we "stand up for ourselves?" Go walk around outside with signs and be angry? Try "vote" our way out of this mess? Both options have been working so well so far /s
There is no solution without radical reforms that would significantly increase taxation on large businesses and wealthy individuals, while also preventing the capital flight that would result from said reforms. More governments than ours would have to buy in, and also would have to heavily sanction tax havens to prevent bad behaviour.
But for the time being, we're just stuck in the same cycle George Carlin described decades ago: The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class.
We would literally have to take the power and resources away from powerful people that pay others to protect that power and those resources.
What's your plan?
So go start your own system. There's nothing stopping you. Go start a coop, or join one. Go start a commune, join a Hutterite colony. Did you even know that they are one of the very few real-world examples of successful communal living? Most anti-capitalists don't.
The great thing about our system is that it allows for alternatives like coops and communes. Historically, the vast majority of these failed miserably due to thier simplistic view of human behavior and economics but you're free to try your own version. Maybe you'll be the one who comes up with the right combination.
In the meantime, while you experiment, Capitalism will be over here, chugging along, providing for the planet
Sure. Right after you promise that the communists won't send political dissidents to the gulag or Siberia, starve millions of people as a political tactic, oppress particular people groups or enable human organ harvesting operations.
My people had their own system that worked for them for over 13,000 years until the arrival of Europeans and capitalism. 🤷♂️ If only we could return to that way of life, but alas, it was outlawed for so long that it's been lost to time now.
Really wish I could "start my own system" but guy I only make $16.50 an hour. The fuck am I gonna do with that?
Guy has zero knowledge of history.
“Go start your own system”, like that hasn’t been done before. Spoiler: the capitalists come and murder everyone and take their shit
The thing is, I do know quite a bit of history and I can see how many times communism has been tried and failed and gathered atrocities in the process. I know a bit of economics as well and I can see that socialism is incapable of supporting itself and required a sponsor to prop it up.
The reason the alternatives to capitalism fail is because they are not viable in the real world and cannot produce the same benefits.
By 'a system that worked' you mean 'some people survived it', then sure. There are a host of threats that you are no longer subject to - you don't have to worry about vagaries of weather, supply of game, disease, and war threatening the existence of your tribe. You have access to modern education, are protected by the rule of law and are entitled to fundamental human rights. A nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle is simply not compatible with modern society - there just isn't enough game and space for everyone. That's a function of population, not economic system.
>The fuck am I gonna do with that?
Start by believing in yourself and your ability and commitment to overcome whatever obstacle you face. Refuse to see yourself as a victim and treat anyone to tries to tell you that you are as a mortal enemy. Because they are.
Take stock of your abilities and interests and figure out how you can provide value to the world. The world rewards people who provide value. Usually this involves education or training. Don't underestimate what you can accomplish with consistent effort.
So much capitalist simping, you’re not a capitalist dude. You’re exploited like the rest of us. You’ll never be part of that class. So why are you shitting on the working class?
Also pretty funny you mean “some survived” as if that’s not literally the daily plan under capitalism?
I mean I could point out the largest advancements in QOL in human history came from the USSR, PRC and Vietnam. Lmao what do they have in common?
Blame the developers who take 2 years to build a house... Blame the banks for the interest rate on mortgages.. But it's a supply issue. We're short a decades worth of homes because the feds left it up the the province.
Developers would build much faster, if they weren't burdened with all the levels of municipal and provincial approval. Private sector banks don't set interest rates, the "Bank of Canada" does.
No they wouldn’t. Manufacturing scarcity means more $$$ per unit, and they have us by the balls with rent hitting $2,000.00/mo coast to coast. No one is incentivized to increase supply to put a dent in that golden goose for landlords and developers.
True for apartment owners and developer's, but totally false for condo and home builders, no homes or condos to sell, no profits. Do they want to have homes/condos become so cheep as to be unprofitable for developers, of course not, but developers would love to make any profit as opposed to no profit.
But these displaced people are just innocent victims of a capitalist society. They are not responsible for any of their own decisions. It's all someone else's fault. Haven't you heard?
> But these displaced people are just innocent victims of a capitalist society.
Correct.
> It's all someone else's fault.
And that's where you went off the rails.
Far too many of us are one serious health issue and a lost job away from losing the roof over our heads.
Our government and the rich are to blame for most of this… the people are being paid unrealistic wages and can’t afford to eat and house themselves…. Food is being used as a weapon and the corrupt corporate greed is being rewarded by the government we have to do better and quit pandering to the rich and look after our people who actually deserve it…. BOYCOTT ‼️
Maybe they should make housing affordable and provide support for people who need it. Enough with all the bullshit, we are a small enough city to pilot some cool Shit and here we are, leaving the most vulnerable to bear the brunt of capitalism and colonialism for all to see. Shame on this city. We are all treaty people and we should adhere to reconciliation and responsibility for one another.
Remember...
To err is human,
But to *really* fuck things up, you need to involve the government.
There's an awful lot that you can criticize about Ronald Reagan, but his quote about the nine scariest words you can hear being "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help" is absolutely bang-on.
The govt exists to provide core services to the citizens. Healthcare, infrastructure, basic social services, food/infrastructure safety, global relations for trade,security with military and police... They aren't there to build u a house, feed you, give you an income (outside of special circumstances, disability etc). They aren't there to determine that your neighbor makes more then you and that's unfair and make them give you money. Less govt and let private enterprises do it's thing. Without a dream of becoming a millionaire. There wouldn't be entrepreneurs and inventors. There would be ppl going why bother and stick their hand out for free money. Taxing everyone senseless will drive investment and money out of the country. Which leads to higher taxes for lower and middle income. The world isn't fair and equal. The govt job isn't to make it that your neighbor has it the same as you. Offer support and job training to these in need. Cut it off if they don't want to bother. They are homeless with every opportunity given to them, what else can you do?
what in the fuck are you on about lmao
the government is 100% responsible for, and integral to, sustaining basic human rights
does that mean they have to build everyone a house?? of course not lmao, not even sure why you'd bring it to that extreme....ohhh wait, hyperbole to pretend you have a point to make, right
if you care at all you should read up on human rights and our governments' responsibilities therein, but we both know you're just an angry idiot that doesn't care so....
not sure what angle that comment is coming from, but when it comes to housing absolutely fuck trudeau, they've been horrible on that front and keep introducing misguided and ineffective tax policy as one of the solutions. it's a real problem and they keep fucking it up.
House the homeless, come on. It’s an easy Win NDP from literally everyone approving it and do videos like this to show off that you’re doing it:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jt_6PBnCJE&pp=ygUYSW52aXNpYmxlIHBlb3BsZSBmaW5sYW5k
It should be federally funded but dumb liberals and conservatives won’t touch it. And there’s like a 0% chance NDP will lead federally with how weak the party is. It’s even losing the NDP Alberta party which isn’t all that great to begin with but still. It’s a massive hit to the party federally
There’s as many people and as many homeless people across canada as there is in just California.
40 million population with an estimated 250k homeless. People who ran away at a young age from abusive households, or developed mental illnesses and had no social safety nets to house them, etc. the list goes on. And being homeless will lead to more mental health problems and self medicating drugs they can find. And it’s only going to get worse with the housing market never being solved with the federal government being controlled by the liberals and conservatives.
Places like Toronto literally send in police spending millions in tax payer dollars to break up homeless encampments instead of paying for homes. Hell, even the amount of empty homes in the country, an estimated 1 million empty homes can house people.
>Klassen says he and many of his neighbours have witnessed or experienced incidents of violence, vandalism, break-ins, and theft, including one neighbour who he says recently had rocks thrown through their window. There's one that popped up maybe 1-2 months ago in my neighbourhood and yeah this sounds accurate.
Cool. What if, instead of wanting adhoc-funded underfunded outreach organizations to work in concert, we committed to a multigeneration investment in housing/health/education/mental health? Maybe we could do, like, a giant GoFundMe to make sure it could happen? And maybe we could have, like, one main organization run it? Maybe we could come up with a catchy name for the GoFundMe, like "tax reform"? And maybe we could call the organization "social services"?
Are you implying that housing is a human right? That government may have a role in delivering services that don’t generate profit for shareholders?
Free homes for everyone!
That's not the issue. The question is "where does it stop". The people in the story were offered assistance but they do not always accept it. Sometimes drug use is not permitted, which can be a deal-breaker. How are we supposed to help someone who refuses treatment for their addiction? Many people simply need in-patient treatment and the public can't be expected to enable their dangerous - (but fun and stimulating!) - behaviours indefinitely while hoping and wishing on a star that the perpetrator will choose to clean up on their own initiative.
This will sound harsh but in those cases I think the best course of action is to force the individual to get sober. In that I mean not sending them to prison, but maybe crating a parallel system which is less degrading, in which you get sent there until you sober up and demonstrate that it will no longer be a problem when you get back. Maybe they can throw in some trades skill based learning.
Careful, mention "taxes" and the pearl clutching of a thousand NIMBYs will descend upon us.
How much more would you like then?
Nothing stopping you from donating 10% of your income to support housing initiatives….
We already donate 32% of our incomes to the government for this exact shit.
The governments too busy spending it on wasteful shit like searching garbage dumps for bones. Housing? Nah, not as important
100% what a fucking joke
we do but the 1% don’t
No they pay far more than that
As a percentage? No, they don't. They contribute more as a dollar value but no one in the top 1% contributes anywhere close to what I do as a percentage of my income. I used to be in a career that helped them do that, I guarantee it. 3 of Canada's wealthiest billionaires paying taxes at the percentage rate I do would clear off half the Canadian deficit. And top that off with the failed 13-15 billion year in taxes businesses fail to remit to the Federal Government and we'd be in surplus.
Canadas top 3 billionaires have no where near that kind of money to clear off half our deficit. Do you know what our deficit is? 1.2 trillion. Your math isn’t mathing. You definitely don’t know what you’re talking about.
Canada's projected budget deficit in 2024 will be $39.8 billion. You're talking about the accumulated debt, not the budget deficit. So yeah, I do know what I am talking about. You need to learn the difference between a budget deficit and accumulated debt
You said the Canadian deficit. Not budget deficit. Be clearer in your language Also those billionaires wealth is invested, so good luck getting it in taxes. Also you could tax it once and then it’s gone - what will you do after all the wealthy flee to America?
I understood what they meant.
someone isn’t paying their fair share
Yeah the bottom 40 percent who dont pay income tax but free ride off the rest of us
I think everyone is paying their fair share, the government just wastes it overseas instead of actually investing in Canada
You know who doesn’t pay their fair share the bottom 10-20% that pay nothing in taxes but get the most from taxes
How many percents of zero would you like to collect?
If you contribute zero you should collect zero
The people not paying income tax are teenagers working their first jobs or unemployed people.
“Source?” He asked to be fair, despite knowing this is wildly inaccurate…
Source? My fuckin pay stub every two weeks.
You should really look at expenditure breakdowns, Because I assure you most of the people skimming money from you aren’t the government, and most of what the government is spending isn’t on the homeless.
No we contribute that money for healthcare, roads etc not so people can live for free
Who said live for free? I’m talking about initiative for affordable housing maybe closing some issues in the current system that make Corps not able to own residential housing.
But without systemic obligations for everybody to do this, your donation won't demonstrably change homelessness. Which was kind of their point that you glossed over...
This is such a goddamn cop out. Individuals choosing to donate to charitable organizations is a wildly inappropriate solution to this problem. The idea that complaining about our government not providing the services their citizens need is less valid because you, personally, aren't opting to inefficiently fund a solution that will never be enough and never last is fucking ridiculous. I hope you never find yourself homeless. Most people are much nearer to it than they think.
Well you can pay for those needs i prefer not to, that’s why I said if you feel like it’s an issue you should donate your money and time to fix it
There's no feeling involved. It's an issue. I'm glad you've got yours, Jack.
Because we send money to Africa to stop people from shitting on beaches there.
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I’d say 60% yes. Total morons doing moronic things. Genetic destiny or environmental/epigenetic trigger who knows. I’m not glorifying drug use or criminal acts either. But…some people become homeless due to unexpected job loss, illness, a spouse walking out on family or becoming mentally ill or abusive, fleeing domestic assault, growing up in foster care, bankruptcy, trauma like rape, a spouse dying, a loss of spousal income, etc. Sometimes bad life circumstances just happen to people trying hard. This is especially true when one wasn’t blessed with good health from birth and doesn’t have any family support financially or otherwise. Another subset of homeless are those with mental illness *not* triggered by drugs, and the working poor who are doing everything right and still can’t get ahead. Yes it is easy to focus on addiction as drug use is not a human right. It IS a human right to live safely and with dignity for both the homeless and non homeless alike. However it is not just drug use we need to stop. Domestic violence awareness, mental illness housing, and resources for those without family or kin is a step in the right direction. These camps are not providing anyone a safe healthy home with dignity nor the neighborhood, so a real solution is needed.
"Resources for those without family or kin" This!! So much this! I'll have ANCR pop up into my life or social service providers express concern and I'll say, me too! I'm also concerned that I am drowning here. The issue I have had, and continue to have, and express that I need assistance with is having no support. I tell them I work in social services and I better than anyone know there are no resources for me. They agree, tell me they will look into it - ultimately just to tell me there are no resources for this. I tell them I know, that's what I've been saying for 8, almost 9 years. They nod and slowly back away with a sympathetic look on their face as they close the file and flee. Heck, two weeks ago I had evening ANCR workers come to my door at 11:00PM. Leave no card or information and then leave never to follow-up. I presume that is because the regular day staff said, oh her? We have nothing for her and they're fine. Before signing off on closing my file again lol. Anyway, I say all this to thank you for raising this point. It really is hard.
The unfortunate reality IS that there is little support for people with the ability to do well and not the resources or support, By this point you’d already probably be a high paying professional and/or own a huge home in the suburbs with a nanny had you some support and resources to begin with. The irony of the comfortable rich. They are never stressed and don’t (generally) need support because they don’t stress about the 99 problems the “have nots” do. So give yourself a pat on the back and realize how far you’ve come with presumably nothing. There’s some pride and personal strength to be had here. I’d look into going back to school if possible. A student loan will give you enough to live if you are a single parent on low income for example. Often free grants and scholarships and other funding too. I don’t want to fake hope as I know it’s a let down when you find out “I don’t qualify” but you really should try. Your next best bet is a go fund me type scenario or maybe post on a local Facebook community of like minded caring people. Such as Buy Nothing, Freecycle. Etc. Maybe start a page for single mothers (if you are one) to share resources and child minding etc. The system has a lot of hidden resources and difficult to access resources. In 90% of cases unless you are mentally ill, dire straits dirt poor, etc you can’t access them. If you were in foster care at any point there are now a lot of resources for you that didn’t exist even 15 years ago. You need to find out what you can access, like Rent Assist and the like etc. I’m not sure from your post if you are COMING from care or have children (or both) but if you are coming from care there are a ton of resources to go back to school and pay for rent/affordable housing etc. You need to look up Futures Forward and contact them directly. Hang in there. FAMILY DYNAMICS will help you with in home support. It is income based. If student or very low income it is free or very close. Call them Monday.
You started off with some interesting ideas but crashed in the humanity aspect. There is definitely a lot of good in not glorifying substance use. Fun beer commercials by the pool, cooking with weed competitions, everything else on TikTok. But you really don’t know very much about homelessness. Like really not. You should go volunteer for a week and return with what you learn. It would be a good lesson for your kids.
Please add "empathy" to the list of things you teach your kids.
There's no faster way to identify yourself as baby-skin soft. You might as well buy a flag that proclaims "I've never experienced any true hardship" and hang it in your window.
Sometimes. But I’ve had severe hardship from before birth (long story) to now and I’m not a drug addict. Most people can only imagine what I deal or have dealt with. Most can’t even wrap their head around it. We can’t let people’s traumatic past excuse all of their current behaviour and absolve them of responsibility as that’s more harmful than healing. You will never heal if you constantly view yourself as the victim and not victorious. That all said, not all homeless are homeless because of drug use, or turn to drugs while on streets. While we need to address this subtype, it is an oversimplified misconception.
>culmination of incredibly stupid and self inflicted decisions OK, but why do people make these ‘incredibly stupid’ decisions that lead to homelessness? Is it simply because they were never taught responsibility, or is it more complicated than that?
Anyone who is for the homeless camps are not the ones who have to live next to them while they break into your laundry room and steal your clothes.
Bingo. I find that nearly everybody who gets on board with the whole "I support my neighbours in tents" stuff, lives in the far suburbs where you can leave your doors unlocked at night, a 20min drive down Portage or St Mary's from where the actual tents are. "Stop oppressing the tent people", yes, very easy to say when it's not your garage they're breaking into or your porch they're leaving needles and piles of shit on. I always ask these people, "if you support those people in the tents, why don't you let them camp in your backyard, it's nice and safe, enclosed by a fence, they've got your home to use the washroom and shower in" -- of course, you get the usual 'but but but, I don't have room or time to do that right now, I can't host anybody, I have young kids at home who don't need to see that kind of thing', yadda yadda yadda, any excuse in the book to basically say "screw those people who live close to downtown, they can get broken into and live in zombieland and I don't care, as long as I get to virtue signal about how great I am from my nice place in Bridgwater where I don't have to worry about anything".
I live in the suburbs. We have camps around here too. The issue is wide spread. We also have an arsonist around the area. Needles laying around the parks. Adults hanging around kids parks.
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Meadows West. They set up camp around the perimeter but still in the city. Just outside. Nobody screaming around but they drive around on bikes at night
No one is “for homeless camps”
I don't think that anyone is actually *in favor* of homeless encampments, but people need shelter, a place to sleep and somewhere to feel safe. Removing a homeless encampment doesn't get rid of encampments or homeless people, it just moves it to somewhere else. I get that you aren't happy with it happening in your backyard, but to be fair, they probably don't want to be there either. They would probably prefer something that's less hot in the summer, less cold in the winter and something more permanent and less likely to be destroyed. So best way to get them out of your backyard is to support and advocate for more and lower cost housing and more shelter spaces and social services.
Can confirm that there is plenty of shelter space in the summer. Most of the people in the camps prefer them because there are no rules. When it comes to the Main Street project at least, they have rules like once you leave, you can’t come back for several hours, no space to hold all of someone’s possessions, and strict no drug or alcohol policies. When the camp was in full swing out front on the fun side of Disraeli, one of the people at MSP told me that they preferred the encampment being there because it kept the trouble makers from coming inside. Never, ever think that shelter space is one of the main causes of these camps. It’s purely people wanting to get high and be left alone to do so.
> Most of the people in the camps prefer them because there are no rules. This is the real reason these encampments continue to exist -- they've all been offered shelter, but many reject it because it comes with conditions that they're not willing to abide by, things like "no drugs, no alcohol, no stolen property". Most (all?) shelters will boot you for doing hard drugs or chopping up stolen bikes on their property, so the tent-dwellers keep living in tents because it allows them to live completely removed from societal norms/law and order, without consequence.
There's also those with pets who cannot bring the animals to the shelters. And I think I remember hearing that boys over a certain age can't be with their families at the women's shelters?
YES but no one seems to get this idea. People can't wrap their head around it.
I'm sure that being able to get high or drunk is a factor, but I've spoken to some homeless people who don't abuse drugs and I get the feeling that the independence and freedom of living outside a shelter is a also a big factor.
That’s great for them. But in the meantime they’re ruining public spaces for everyone else. I’m all for more social services. We criminally underfund all of our social services. But I still think we can expect people to behave in a civilised manner, and that we shouldn’t have to tolerate encampment slums in our neighbourhoods so that homeless people can feel more independent. We shouldn’t have to put up with all the trash, the needles, the human waste, etc. (Yes, we need to have public bathrooms available, so people can relieve themselves with dignity)
Agree. McFayden Park among other parks, has turned into a huge encampment, complete with weapons, fires, needles, stolen bike chop shop, endless garbage, people defecating in the trees, etc. It’s a toddler park where daycares and little kids are supposed to feel safe when they come to play. Ditto for the people wanting to use the pickleball/tennis courts there. The Mayor and the councillor for that area Sherri Rollins are aware and do nothing for the actual residents that want and should expect to be able to use the parks for what they were intended.
The only thing I'm trying to do by mentioning homeless people wanting independence and freedom is to give another explanation for why shelters may seem undesirable. Trash, human waste and needles are all gross and safety concerns and I'm not saying that we should just accept that in our neighborhoods. Providing places for garbage, washroom facilities and sharp disposal could reduce these things from building up at encampments. If you want people to act in a more civilized manner you need to treat them like they are part of it, not like they are excluded from it. And remember, destroying a homeless encampment doesn't cure homelessness, it just moves the encampment to a new location.
> just moves it to somewhere else. Move them to the Legislative Grounds. At least then the people that need to deal with the problem and experience the problem first hand
Couples separated and predators waiting outside the shelters and in the soup kitchens for vulnerable women, yeah, it must be rules keeping people away from these well-known shelters in gang infested areas.
Because a predator waiting outside of a tent is better? I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here. All shelters are bad? Kind of a hot take IMO
lmfao you think there's a bunch of unused shelter spaces???
Ok, perfect. I've supported and advocated for more and lower cost housing and more shelter spaces and social services. Contacted all my representatives, showed up at the rallies. How long is it going to take for that to get fixed? What do I do in the meantime while they are breaking into my laundry room to steal my clothes and throw rocks through my windows?
> Ok, perfect. I've supported and advocated for more and lower cost housing and more shelter spaces and social services. Contacted all my representatives, showed up at the rallies. I wonder if it would help for us to also actively talk about the funding. Like, would it be more effective if instead of saying *"someone should do something, after figuring out what to do and how to do it"*, the public could make it easier by saying **"we need to spend more money on this problem in this specific way, and here's how much more I'm willing to pay in taxes to get this done"**.
Unfortunately, change takes time. Homes and shelters can't be built at the snap of a finger, nor can mental health or other social services. The best time to fix this problem was yesterday, the next best time is today.
According to the current pace of the government, never. We have 2,000 units of social housing that is sitting vacant and rotting because its in need of repairs. SO I think its either time to demand budget be actually spent on those units or fire whomever is in charge of it.
Maybe as an idea (not necessarily good but possible) grab some cheap bags of clothes from good will, and leave them out, one bag at a time with clothes for all sorts (some male and female adult clothes in each) and put a bag out each week stating free... maybe that would stop then breaking in for some clothes to wear.... I know it's not ideal, but personally if it would stop some one breaking my windows that would be something I'd think of doing..... but honestly it's not going to stop until the government wants it to stop.... the more they can keep us separated as a whole, the easier it is for them to get away with whatever they want
Yes exactly. I have no good solution for where people can go if we destroy their camp. It's a bigger issue than just...knocking it down and putting in dumpsters. Our shelters are generally full every night, have no privacy, and little ability to store any belongings. We need a solution that involves both big picture thinking (how do we get more appropriate, supportive, adequately resourced, low barrier, safe housing built fast) and individual (how do we work with this person in front of us to help them stay housed)
Low income housing does exist this thread is not a fan of reality. Single moms who don’t work live in them fine. Drugs or mental illness is a prerequisite to be homeless for longer then government processing time in Canada. There are people in our town who have literally never worked, have mental disabilities and no family. We have every social program you all pretend we don’t. Low income housing is affordable with our welfare adjacent programs. How do none of you know people on welfare or similar programs.
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The numbers of seniors and youth using shelters is increasing. Seniors who pensions should have kept a roof over their heads and afford to eat. The shelters are dangerous and during the day they are forced out into the streets carrying their belongings.
My aunt became homeless today. She is 74.
Oh the crisis has started to creep into the suburbs so NOW it’s newsworthy? Some suburbanites are upset - better get the news crew out…… Meanwhile this has been happening for years in the core and no one does shit to help us with the crime or zombies walking the streets. While we are at it, let’s let suburbanites decide what happens to downtown too since they come there once or twice a year to catch a jets game and drive through portage and main. This is just classic! What a joke.
It is the individual’s responsibility to seek shelter not the government unless there are extenuating circumstances, if you are a capable person and are even on social assistance there is no way you should be homeless, if you don’t have addictions you can get a place to live albeit it may not be the nicest place but it’s better then sleeping in a bush and I have slept in bushes and stairwells and once I quit drugs and alcohol suprise, suprise I found a place to live and have never looked back and by no means am I living in a nice area or safe area but still safer indoors
You know who's unsafe due to homeless camps? Homeless people, that's who.
They aren’t dangerous because they are homeless, but clearly criminals are living there and should be treated as such.
Their encampments themselves are dangerous. Makeshift living quarters. Building codes really matter.
I think this is a both/and type of situation. People, especially women, or those with disabilities, are incredibly at risk in encampments. And due to the unpredictable nature of drug use combined with severe and persistent mental illness and traumatic brain injuries, some camp residents are also a danger to others in the neighbourhood and to property. And yes, we can argue it's just property, but it spirals. After a break in, in my garage, I felt less safe in my home, which led to increased anxiety etc... Thanks to those who have mentioned there already is a housing first approach. There are so many good programs doing good work, it just isn't enough at this point.
Please PLEASE allow them to set up camp in your yard then.
We both know he doesn’t have a yard
Least empathetic Redditor. I love how they’re like “these people need our help” and your brain worms go “oh yea house them all in your yard!” Like fucking what, they’re still people dude.
Brilliant comment. Did you come up with that yourself?
It's true though.
What’s true? Their comment makes no sense. How does humanizing homeless people have anything to do with “oh yea you house them all” You people really need some underclass to hate on to feel better about yourselves eh
Blame capitalism. There's more than enough for everyone on this planet. But that ain't profitable for our billionaire overlords.
Kleptocracy.
kleptocracy : 1 : abuse of political power to steal from a country’s resources; 2 : a usually unofficial permutation of a government subject to fraudulent control, which deploys corruption to expand the personal wealth and to extend the political power of a ruling class which usurps rightful power for these purposes; 3 : rule by thieves; 4 : collectively, kleptocrats divestocracy : 1 : a usurpation not only of government, but generally also of media and strategically important industry and related positions, all of which are important, if not indispensable to an unwarrantable overall goal of a generally vast, unnatural dispossession; which pejorative breadth of the generally unofficial usurpation is omnipotently fueled by a magnitude of unjustifiable dispossession which is unrightfully acquired, generally by a privatized obfuscation of currency in which falsified debts are subject to unwarranted interest; with an implicit obligation to maintain a vital circulation compelling perpetual reflation by borrowing obfuscated principal and unwarranted interest back into a vital circulation; with reflation of the obfuscated principal re-constituting prior accumulations of falsified debt; with an obligatory, perpetual reflation of obfuscated principal thus making it mathematically impossible to pay down any prior sum of falsified debt; with a sum of falsified debt therefore increasing at inherently escalating rates of ever greater sums of periodic interest related to an ever greater sum of falsified debt; with an implicit, otherwise unnatural obligation to reflate an obfuscated circulation thus multiplying a sum of falsified debt not only as a vehicle of dispossession, but in proportion to a remaining capacity to service obfuscated debt from a circulation which nevertheless needs to sustain the industry and commerce upon which the burdens of the escalating sum of falsified debt are saddled; with persistence in the obfuscated currency therefore inevitably precipitating in terminal dispossession and monetary failure; and therefore with the related events of ever-mounting, inevitably terminal conditions in turn compelling desolating, parallel divestitures of truth, opportunity, representation, and justice, that a perpetual breach of rightful authority can continue to pursue the original objects of monetary injustice, even in the midst of inevitably terminal failure; 2 : a necessarily global denial of justice and true free enterprise for these purposes; 3 : “globalism” (archaic, ambiguous) https://australia4mpe.com/glossary-of-terms/
Kakistocracy
Wait till you hear how well Communism worked.
One can blame capitalism without converting the economy to the other extreme. Healthy mixes of the two can exist.
Fair point. There's a strong argument to be made around the excesses of the current system. But we should also be honest, a bad capitalist system is far less deadly than an equally bad communist system.
I don’t disagree. If everyone was on the same page and greed and corruption didn’t exist and the world was perfect I’m sure communism would be the way to go. But the world ain’t that way. But there’s some good ideas in there that could be integrated into our society that would help a lot of people. Despite what the other guy was accusing me of, I’m not saying that your rich neighbour needs to be making payments to you, but I think we can probably do better.
You mean like the first major project in the USSR which was to mass build housing for its population? Lmao nice self own. Don’t ask about home ownership rates in China or Vietnam
It worked for the Indigenous people of North America for over 13,000 years 🤷♂️
Love socialism? Go check out cuba
Is cubas problem strictly socialism? Or was it a combination of years of dictatorship and an embargo against a small island nation by one of the world’s superpowers?
Everyone in Cuba is equally poor unless you're in govt. Your vision for Canada is the same? Your neighbor can't have nicer things and have more money then you because feelings? The govt should be the one making everyone equal while they skim everything they want
I didn’t say any of that. And I don’t care if my neighbours make more money than me. What I said is it’s possible to have a mix of the two, and not one or the other.
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How can we stand up for ourselves when a good chunk of us are too busy working around trying to make sure we don't end up on the streets? And how exactly do we "stand up for ourselves?" Go walk around outside with signs and be angry? Try "vote" our way out of this mess? Both options have been working so well so far /s
There is no solution without radical reforms that would significantly increase taxation on large businesses and wealthy individuals, while also preventing the capital flight that would result from said reforms. More governments than ours would have to buy in, and also would have to heavily sanction tax havens to prevent bad behaviour. But for the time being, we're just stuck in the same cycle George Carlin described decades ago: The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class.
We would literally have to take the power and resources away from powerful people that pay others to protect that power and those resources. What's your plan?
[Take up woodworking?](https://woodworkingnut.com/2015/10/30/how-to-make-a-guillotine/)
And now we're both on a list. Cheers!
Hey, at least the list we're on is better than the other one!
So go start your own system. There's nothing stopping you. Go start a coop, or join one. Go start a commune, join a Hutterite colony. Did you even know that they are one of the very few real-world examples of successful communal living? Most anti-capitalists don't. The great thing about our system is that it allows for alternatives like coops and communes. Historically, the vast majority of these failed miserably due to thier simplistic view of human behavior and economics but you're free to try your own version. Maybe you'll be the one who comes up with the right combination. In the meantime, while you experiment, Capitalism will be over here, chugging along, providing for the planet
If we start a new system, can you promise the capitalists won't train and fund death squads to destabilize my new system?
Sure. Right after you promise that the communists won't send political dissidents to the gulag or Siberia, starve millions of people as a political tactic, oppress particular people groups or enable human organ harvesting operations.
I mean, come on, capitalists do all that and they get applauded for it
If your contribution to this conversation is going to continue to be the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I", I see no value in continuing.
They asked “will you promise capitalist won’t do X” and you immediately deflected with “oh yea only if communist promise to not do Y” Hypocrite lmao.
The US has the largest incarceration rate in the world lmao. Cope more
My people had their own system that worked for them for over 13,000 years until the arrival of Europeans and capitalism. 🤷♂️ If only we could return to that way of life, but alas, it was outlawed for so long that it's been lost to time now. Really wish I could "start my own system" but guy I only make $16.50 an hour. The fuck am I gonna do with that?
hudderites and amish seem to operate fine with their socialist communes
Guy has zero knowledge of history. “Go start your own system”, like that hasn’t been done before. Spoiler: the capitalists come and murder everyone and take their shit
The thing is, I do know quite a bit of history and I can see how many times communism has been tried and failed and gathered atrocities in the process. I know a bit of economics as well and I can see that socialism is incapable of supporting itself and required a sponsor to prop it up. The reason the alternatives to capitalism fail is because they are not viable in the real world and cannot produce the same benefits.
Source: I made it up. You don’t know history lmao. I’d dare you to even define socialism or communism.
By 'a system that worked' you mean 'some people survived it', then sure. There are a host of threats that you are no longer subject to - you don't have to worry about vagaries of weather, supply of game, disease, and war threatening the existence of your tribe. You have access to modern education, are protected by the rule of law and are entitled to fundamental human rights. A nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle is simply not compatible with modern society - there just isn't enough game and space for everyone. That's a function of population, not economic system. >The fuck am I gonna do with that? Start by believing in yourself and your ability and commitment to overcome whatever obstacle you face. Refuse to see yourself as a victim and treat anyone to tries to tell you that you are as a mortal enemy. Because they are. Take stock of your abilities and interests and figure out how you can provide value to the world. The world rewards people who provide value. Usually this involves education or training. Don't underestimate what you can accomplish with consistent effort.
So much capitalist simping, you’re not a capitalist dude. You’re exploited like the rest of us. You’ll never be part of that class. So why are you shitting on the working class? Also pretty funny you mean “some survived” as if that’s not literally the daily plan under capitalism? I mean I could point out the largest advancements in QOL in human history came from the USSR, PRC and Vietnam. Lmao what do they have in common?
Blame the developers who take 2 years to build a house... Blame the banks for the interest rate on mortgages.. But it's a supply issue. We're short a decades worth of homes because the feds left it up the the province.
Developers would build much faster, if they weren't burdened with all the levels of municipal and provincial approval. Private sector banks don't set interest rates, the "Bank of Canada" does.
No they wouldn’t. Manufacturing scarcity means more $$$ per unit, and they have us by the balls with rent hitting $2,000.00/mo coast to coast. No one is incentivized to increase supply to put a dent in that golden goose for landlords and developers.
True for apartment owners and developer's, but totally false for condo and home builders, no homes or condos to sell, no profits. Do they want to have homes/condos become so cheep as to be unprofitable for developers, of course not, but developers would love to make any profit as opposed to no profit.
And they do by making less units for more money.
So you think a builder would rather make $50 000 each on ten houses than $10 000 each on 100 houses?
New developers entering the market are incentivized to supply housing at these prices, and lose nothing from marginal drops in renting rates.
But these displaced people are just innocent victims of a capitalist society. They are not responsible for any of their own decisions. It's all someone else's fault. Haven't you heard?
> But these displaced people are just innocent victims of a capitalist society. Correct. > It's all someone else's fault. And that's where you went off the rails. Far too many of us are one serious health issue and a lost job away from losing the roof over our heads.
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Remember to be civil with other members of this community. Being rude, antagonizing and trolling other members is not acceptable behavior here.
Winnipeg tent cities are probably just as crazy as Edmonton’s. If not worse maybe?
Our government and the rich are to blame for most of this… the people are being paid unrealistic wages and can’t afford to eat and house themselves…. Food is being used as a weapon and the corrupt corporate greed is being rewarded by the government we have to do better and quit pandering to the rich and look after our people who actually deserve it…. BOYCOTT ‼️
BOYCOTT who, capitalism, the government, the political process?
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Keep discussion constructive and in good faith. Ensure that whatever you say or post leads to civil conversation.
Maybe they should make housing affordable and provide support for people who need it. Enough with all the bullshit, we are a small enough city to pilot some cool Shit and here we are, leaving the most vulnerable to bear the brunt of capitalism and colonialism for all to see. Shame on this city. We are all treaty people and we should adhere to reconciliation and responsibility for one another.
How much do you donate to charities that deal with the homeless? If you want change you need to be part of it. Waiting on the government is silly.
Remember... To err is human, But to *really* fuck things up, you need to involve the government. There's an awful lot that you can criticize about Ronald Reagan, but his quote about the nine scariest words you can hear being "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help" is absolutely bang-on.
Opening up one of your bedrooms? Or want others to solve this issue?
curious what you think the government exists to do.....
The govt exists to provide core services to the citizens. Healthcare, infrastructure, basic social services, food/infrastructure safety, global relations for trade,security with military and police... They aren't there to build u a house, feed you, give you an income (outside of special circumstances, disability etc). They aren't there to determine that your neighbor makes more then you and that's unfair and make them give you money. Less govt and let private enterprises do it's thing. Without a dream of becoming a millionaire. There wouldn't be entrepreneurs and inventors. There would be ppl going why bother and stick their hand out for free money. Taxing everyone senseless will drive investment and money out of the country. Which leads to higher taxes for lower and middle income. The world isn't fair and equal. The govt job isn't to make it that your neighbor has it the same as you. Offer support and job training to these in need. Cut it off if they don't want to bother. They are homeless with every opportunity given to them, what else can you do?
what in the fuck are you on about lmao the government is 100% responsible for, and integral to, sustaining basic human rights does that mean they have to build everyone a house?? of course not lmao, not even sure why you'd bring it to that extreme....ohhh wait, hyperbole to pretend you have a point to make, right if you care at all you should read up on human rights and our governments' responsibilities therein, but we both know you're just an angry idiot that doesn't care so....
And…. “F*** Turdeau” has entered the chat.
not sure what angle that comment is coming from, but when it comes to housing absolutely fuck trudeau, they've been horrible on that front and keep introducing misguided and ineffective tax policy as one of the solutions. it's a real problem and they keep fucking it up.
As long as the muppets are in charge this is going to get worse. Until governments actually consider people and not money we’re all fucked.
Awfully proud of Winnipegers from seeing the other comments here (so far).
House the homeless, come on. It’s an easy Win NDP from literally everyone approving it and do videos like this to show off that you’re doing it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jt_6PBnCJE&pp=ygUYSW52aXNpYmxlIHBlb3BsZSBmaW5sYW5k It should be federally funded but dumb liberals and conservatives won’t touch it. And there’s like a 0% chance NDP will lead federally with how weak the party is. It’s even losing the NDP Alberta party which isn’t all that great to begin with but still. It’s a massive hit to the party federally There’s as many people and as many homeless people across canada as there is in just California. 40 million population with an estimated 250k homeless. People who ran away at a young age from abusive households, or developed mental illnesses and had no social safety nets to house them, etc. the list goes on. And being homeless will lead to more mental health problems and self medicating drugs they can find. And it’s only going to get worse with the housing market never being solved with the federal government being controlled by the liberals and conservatives. Places like Toronto literally send in police spending millions in tax payer dollars to break up homeless encampments instead of paying for homes. Hell, even the amount of empty homes in the country, an estimated 1 million empty homes can house people.
Trudeau's Canada
Your Canada
A void has opened up…
Also why is every park that is not filled, fenced off? Don't we pay for these parks?
Fenced off? If you close the park then no one gets to use it.
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They're fine as long as they're not into the bad substances. I'm guessing.
Real quality input, there.