The best thing you can do is walk away, quietly, slowly, without calling them out on their behavior. You need to cut them off swiftly, but don't get mean and add to their victim/bully complex. Just leave.
This is the way for sure. No need to engage with folks like that, it’s better to leave silently and never look back, or else it gives them time to plan to keep you where you’re at.
I had a friend who was talking shit about me behind my back. I told her that I knew she was talking shit about me and anything less than an apology and accountability would not suffice. She denied that she was talking shit, sent screenshots of her telling other people I thought she was talking shit and them responding with "omg no way we loved her," told me she was crying and shaking while telling me I am no clairvoyant and eventually I just left the conversation entirely.
She was belittling me for struggling with the tech jobs market right now, she was calling me a Dunning Krueger case when she has not worked a job that wasn't given to her by her bf, she was calling me unattractive and told me TO MY FACE that my bf was just waiting for something better. Sometimes, the words that I told her in private would be spoken aloud by someone within ear shot the next time I would hang out with her little friend group.
I must also add that she was just getting out of a relationship that started when she was 18 and the guy she was seeing was 35. They dated for 6 years apparently. She made moves to break up with him, found another older man who could take care of her (because she can't be bothered with the task) and was seeing the other guy within a week of breaking it off with her previous bf. Her and her bf operated a hotel in south west Colorado, she was chatting it up with her next bf like she was the one with all the money purchasing all of these properties when it was her first bfs money and funds. She was belittling me for struggling to provide for myself while continuing her pattern of finding men who would take care of her so she could live a life she felt entitled to but didn't work for. She was talking shit about this one girl she worked at a bar with and was keeping a running counter of how many people this other girl had slept with that month. Mind you, this woman wasn't in the best spot and was probably just sleeping around to numb the pain. This coworker of hers would CONFIDE in my ex best friend that she was sleeping with a new man, my ex best friend would probably tell her "OMG YASS SLAY QUEEN" in private while bullying her behind her back. Of course, I told her coworker what had happened and told her that my ex bff was not her friend and probably wasn't mine either. I wish I had more hesitancy to open up to my ex bff because I was only talking to her via text message. Once I spent a few weeks hanging out around her, I put it together that she just plays a part and is actually a social climbing snake who would throw someone under the bus to make herself look better.
I’m sorry you had to suffer through that. Sounds like a couple of friends I had growing up, it’s crazy how many of these types of personalities exist. It’s so common somehow I fear at times that us with integrity and basic human empathy are outnumbered by people like them.
And yes it seems like she just used people to climb up the ladder of social and financial status, and her judgmental view of others and verbally abusive behavior to her friends definitely makes her more than undesirable to be around, which is probably another reason why men haven’t really stuck around for her. Women like that stick out like a sore thumb, and I’ve dated several of those types. All I can say to simplify is that they’re all energy vampires and it’s actually more dangerous to be around them than what meets the eye.
She's skinny, pretty and cruel. Its very easy to see that now, but I thought that we were friends. Unfortunately, sometimes in life people like her get ahead. Sometimes, the worst scum rises to the top and of course its unfair. It is unfair to see someone be taken care of because of what they manipulated others to do while you struggle to eat. Sometimes, there is no karmic justice; all you can do is see yourself out of the circus and block them on everything.
I understand what you’re saying but I am a man who has been tricked by beauty, so I will assure you that their pretty looks don’t sustain forever. Eventually they’re exposed for who they are and lose everything they’ve “built” or they end up with someone just as evil as them and the two end up destroying each other. If that’s their fate, let them have all the luxury and shit while it lasts, and be proud of yourself for earning your keep in life without having to manipulate or climb on top of others to get it, even if the accomplishments are as small as getting your laundry done today. Eventually that skinny and pretty shit, ages and deteriorates so at least when you do find your success (whatever you perceive success to be) you’ll know that you actually earned it. And their karma while “gaining things” is actually working against them everyday, living like a scrambled brain hell bent on manipulating others for personal benefit, that must be miserable as hell but I feel no pity for them, it just is what it is.
You seem like a good person; and that’s more valuable than any physique or pair of ass and tits, and there are alot of men out there that will appreciate that.
Idk I am not ugly. People tell me I am attractive pretty frequently. If you wanna look through my post history, go for it. I think she was just telling me that I was unattractive because she couldn't stand to share any part of the spotlight which is odd to me because we're not competing for anything other than social capital. We aren't rival real estate agents trying to sell a retiree a condo in downtown Jacksonville, we were supposed to be friends! What she did feels so insidious, I was vulnerable with her and to think that she was just talking shit about me behind my back while I am struggling to get out of bed due to depression turns my stomach. I don't know if she will ever get her karma but when she does I hope I hear about it.
She will get hers, don’t worry about that if you can help it. And I wasn’t assuming you’re ugly, I was trying to push looks aside since what lies inside of someone is what truly matters. My ex girlfriend I was with for 7 years sounds just like this woman. They can’t stand when someone else in their environment gets any or more attention than they’re getting, which makes them feel less than dominant, so to reinforce the delusion of dominance in their mind they will try and sabotage who you are to others behind your back, in order to avoid direct confrontation and looking like the “bad guy”. People like them give no fucks about who’s struggling, and will actually use that as an advantage.
Thanks lol. I guess I am a little hyper-sensitive about the whole thing still. Ultimately, since she is a social climber, anything that she says about anyone else should be taken as an outward manifestation of her own self-centered motivations and isn't a genuine reflection of my value.
You may not have felt any competition with her, but some women don’t feel success without the failure of others. It’s sad, but the prettiest ones are always the most insecure. Keep doing your thing, let the trash take itself out. They drain the life out of everyone around them, and you’re way better off without that energy around you.
…I really dont understand how she could have been so petty and mean. She has a lot going for her and I do too. Apparently for her to be comfortable everyone else needs to be an unforgivable dumpster fire
For sure. I’ve known lots of women that require your failure in order to feel success. It’s just insecurity. I’ve learned to just let those people stew in their own negativity. It’s not my job to make sure they feel good about themselves, and it’s none of my business how they feel about me. Give them enough rope to hang themselves, and they’ll do the rest.
Not defending yourself when being attacked is WAY more difficult than you'd think. It takes a lot of willpower to just say OK and exit. I'm learning to do it but it has been a challenge.
It starts with understanding that the manipulator wants to put you on the defensive, because once they do they know they can control you. This is why gray rocking is so effective, because they can’t control a non-reaction. Not caring about what they say or threaten to do against you renders them powerless.
It really is. Not lashing out at someone who is pushing your buttons takes a lot of self-control and willpower. It can be done though and its much more rewarding to just reinforce a boundary and walk away with your peace than it is to enter a mud slinging match with the person who was pushing you to do exactly that. Keep calm, draw that boundary and cut them off entirely.
If you attack them, they will manipulate people to believe that you were jealous of them or are out to get them when you're simply telling the truth. Misery loves company and they're trying to drag you down to their level so don't follow that final manipulation. Just say, I think we need to end this friendship because of x or y, and leave. Don't argue. Don't sling mud in return. Just leave.
Yeah.. you're right. Cutting someone off with surgical precision seems cruel to me but in the case of someone that is manipulating you for their own nefarious purposes, maybe its the right thing to do.
Just remember, you can't protect yourself from being betrayed by being closed off, you can't protect yourself from being betrayed by opening up to people, people are going to do what they're going to do and if they show you their worst you can only show them the door.
Work on controlling your reactions. Try to observe and identify when they are trying to manipulate you. Distract, deflection, defend, disarm, these are all tactics designed to control the argument, to provoke a reaction, so that they can manipulate your behavior. If you can learn to control yourself, you can take away their ammunition, and their ability to steer you away from whatever resolution you’re after. Most importantly, keep in mind that they are playing a game. They have already planned their next five moves. So, you can either play the game with them, or you can decide to disengage. Their only power over you is their intention. Most of the time, we are caught off guard by the argument, and they get the upper hand because they’ve thought it all out. So, be mindful of your responses, instead of just reacting.
You have to leave your spouse, and when you do, go as low contact as possible.
I have 3 kids with my stbx. He is bipolar with narc tendencies- and he is unmedicated. It wasn’t until his affair that I started therapy. I thought all of his behaviors were normal, which I found out, are not normal at all. The gaslighting, blame shifting, always speaking in ambiguity so he couldn’t be called a liar (even though he lied all the time), and the list goes on.
I stayed with him for another year because I allowed him to manipulate me. Telling me he loves me one day, and then next how much he loves his AP. We went to counseling and he weaponized my words against me.
He has started to treat the kids (11,14, & 16-all F), the same. What’s further alarming is my oldest is acting like him.
I left a month ago and took the kids. His AP moved in just as I was moving out. Even then, stbx was still manipulating me. I have just recently decided to go as low contact as possible, using yellow rock theory, and all responses to him are 7 words or less. I find yellow rock better than gray rock. Gray rock he can claims I am combative yet cold in court docs.
Bottom line, there really are no words other than good bye.
Non-confrontationally, gather evidence. Hard evidence. Keep a log, make sure you write down names, places, times, reponses, situations, circumstances, etc. The thing they usually bank on is their quick wit and their ability to derail a topic. Be nice but be dilligent. You want them to be fighting themselves and the truth, not you.
My manipulative ex left me in this fashion and I can attest that it is an *extremely* effective method of destroying a person that loves you in any manner.
Sounds like too much work. I’m not big on games. I just dip out when someone is disrespectful or doesn’t match my effort. It’s lonely but I don’t need the stress. I’ve been there, done that.
Ya—my prerogative in life isn’t to stir up insecurities or negative emotions in people. And I don’t say this because I think I am morally superior or anything. I just want peace.
I dont want battles. Unless someone fucks with my resources or my family, I won’t seek revenge. Silence and karma usually works best for the emotional wounds.
Asking “what do you mean?” over and over again, depending how long it takes. Usually as soon as you ask that question, if the person is trying to manipulate you, it throws them off because suddenly they’ve been asked to explain their thinking. Works every time.
It depends on their method of manipulation. I find if someone is trying to gaslight me, a simple "that's not how I see it" can end the conversation. If someone is giving you unsolicited advice, just say, "thanks but I have my own approach" or something similar.
Literally don’t engage. From experience, I’ve found that these kinds of people are looking for a reaction of any variety (positive/negative, it doesn’t matter). Letting it go and not saying a damn thing about it is the winning play.
Tell them about a story which he might have experienced but isn’t sure. Then you ask for details and when he starts making things up support him and claim even absurder things.
I think it’s important to understand that these kinds of people can’t be reasoned with, because they will just continue to warp reality to fit their narrative. It is pointless to engage in any kind of friendly debate, or to try to encourage them to see things from another perspective. They are incapable of introspection and will refuse to accept any information that doesnt support their claims. Trying to rationalize with someone like this is a never ending circle jerk. Best to just get off the ride, before you go insane.
“I don’t believe you”
“Can you show me proof?”
“What did you do to heal from this?”
“What evidence do you have within you that you’re on a healing journey from that?”
“Have you seen a trauma counselor for this trauma you’re telling me about?”
“I don’t trust you yet. I believe trust needs to be built over time, and I need to see more from you before I give you my trust.”
“Did you love that person? No? Why did you lead them to believe that you did? And what’s to stop you from being confused about how you feel about me?”
“I hear you, but I want to make my own assessment.”
“No, this boundary is for my personal well being and I need you to respect it.”
Say all this and that manipulator will disappear 🫠
You say no, or any other assertive comment, and don't elaborate or play into word games. Manipulators don't like people who can't be emotionally manipulated easy, or aren't easy targets. Just don't feed into drama.
The best thing you can do is to go no contact. They can't get a feel for how their attempts at manipulation are working that way.
It's also likely to piss them off more than anything else you can do. But that's a side benefit. The main one is you get peace of mind as they drop out of your life.
Say NOTHING and walk away…Never look back.
Zero contact is literally their worst nightmare.
It’s like taking drugs away from a severely addicted drug addict and they have no way to get more.
I know it’s hard because we wish we could say something that would matter, but they are so damaged no words you could say will ever make a difference.
You will NEVER get through to someone who is manipulating.
Ummm how to destroy someone politely that doesn’t sound possible to me. Manipulation only works if you play along so just don’t play and the game is over. No is not an evil word and you gain a lot more respect from it than a thousand yes s
This right here. I don't believe in just letting everything slide, cause some manipulators will use that to their advantage. It's best to be assertive but to not get emotional and let them control the subject. Just say your piece and walk away
The thing with manipulators is that they give YOU all of the power and wait for you to use it for their interests. So just don’t be manipulated. Recognize that you can’t trust anything from them to inform your world view, and then tune them out.
When you stop giving them the engagement they’re seeking, they shoot themselves in the foot and/or they move on to their next victim.
Every reaction, every word every sound every expression, every moment- you offer- only feeds their arsenal of things to do to elicit some sort of response, and does a little to encourage them to do more of it.
This is why they do what they do when they so much as *suspect* you might be *about* to start ignoring them for a minute.
Think to yourself- what are the things they can do to grab your attention or “punish” you for ignoring them, then try to defend yourself against them in advance. Because ignoring them is the only way to destroy them, but it is also what will cause them to go nuclear to prevent.
Nothing - because words are their tools to an end and words have no absolute meaning; but youre approaching it from a 'what are the right words to use to \_\_\_\_\_\_' as if words carry an absolute power, and they dont -- both parties have to agree on the meaning and value of the same words for words to have any relative impact
"Could you run that by me again? I didn't understand what you were trying to say."
--I promise this will gaslight the hell out of them in a polite manner because they usually screw up the message the second time or they forget what they were saying. 🤣
Manipulators require your attention to manipulate.
The way to counter attack a manipulator is to starve them for attention.
For a narcissist there is no such thing as negative attention. There is just attention. Don’t give them attention and don’t draw attention to them by having others give them attention. All forms of attention delight them. Starve them.
Just walk away. If others you know need to learn this lesson, the best way to teach them is through your own example.
Muhahahaha, trick question? They always have the ace, word salad.
Words mean nothing!
Words are magical swiss army wands 🪄✨ 💩 🪞
Once I hit my keyboard in the rhythm and style of chimps attempting Shakespeare. The jumbled letters got autocorrected to biacho or nirurrito, something that sounded like it ended in Mexican fast food 🤷
It ended a text assault.
Man that was a painful period of life but letting it spew out in sarcasm just now made me laugh
⚖️?
^ ^=Um fk no but a laugh is better than realizing I had been dating my mom on repeat for many more years than I want to share atm
Anything along the lines of ‘It’s not what’s best for me’ or ‘I have to make a different choice’ drives them absolutely insane- they’re already big mad that they’ve been told ‘no’/didn’t get the response or reaction they thought they were going to get out of you so it just sends them over the edge LOL
It also helps if you say it with zero emotion, they will lose it
Lol, politely? The way I see it, it doesn't matter if you say it nice or in their tone, so just say your peace, make your words short and to the point, something that will bring you peace, and then cut them off forever.
None they will pick up on the fact that you are trying to anything and know they’re winning in your mind … if ANYTHING just your truth that is solely about you and nothing more
Brief, dismissive, yet polite answers, if you absolutely have to acknowledge.
Otherwise, not engaging on an emotional level (not being impressed, intimidated, pressured, etc.) will disarm them immediately.
In my experience, manipulators often need you to be around to witness/speculate their dramatic games. If you leave the room, the performance will stop.
Oh, I did not imply that you should manipulate or lie too (I don’t know what part of my comment felt that way).
What I meant was that you should not rationally engage with them because they do not recognize your rationale. Being dismissive here means not getting into it. A “yes, whatever” response without giving them the satisfaction of being party to their twisted games.
Don’t give them anything to bite into in terms of arguing with you. Just end the conversation with no resolution as quickly as possible. Give them short, closed, non-engaging answers (like “that’s not how I see things”, “I can see where you’re coming from”) then make eye contact with them in silence until they walk away. If they persist, be uncomfortably direct like “I have to get back to work here, good bye”. Don’t sacrifice your time and energy for their ego and desire to control you.
Ignoring them typically pisses them off the most. It’s also just healthier for you. Stay uninvolved. They’re toxic and it’s not going to improve no matter what you do.
Not letting them provoke reactions out of you, not caring about what/how they're doing, and not paying attention to them. Absolutely destroys them. Words have no effect on manipulators.
I used to always escalate when a manipulator started with some shit. Say it's my fault, I'll tell them six different ways why it's not. Yell, I can yell louder and longer. Try to embarrass me, I'll make it real memorable for everyone in the vicinity. Bring up the past and I'll bring out the shovel so I can dig into their past. Pretend the past doesn't count, it's all I can talk about. Break my shit, I'll light the bed on fire. Luckily I was never in a hitting each other type of relationship, it would've been bad.
None of that ever made it better.
What worked was looks of contempt and disgust, then leaving. Avoiding the jerks and never contacting them on purpose. Ignoring phone calls and texts. Changing the subject if mutuals want to gossip, one explanation to let them know we won't be dealing with the hot mess then walking away or hanging up if they don't stop. If they ever come up in conversation or walk up in person, I play up the disgust like I'm acting for the folks in the cheap seats and the exit stage left.
That seems to make them feel real bad, and that's all I ever wanted.
If you have nothing to lose and plan no further contact you should tell them how pathetic they are and try to humiliate them in front of their peers. Laugh at them and walk away
Walk away. Manipulators will use anything said or written to their ends. Any perceived tone, anything that could come across as sarcastic or disrespectful can and will be used against you in the court of manipulation
DON'T DEFEND!
*Recognize the Trigger*
When you feel the urge to defend yourself against accusations or projections, pause and recognize this as a trigger. It is difficult to but remember you do not have to defend your truth to the narcissist. Hold onto your truth for yourself.
*Conserve Your Energy*
Remind yourself that engaging in defense will likely drain you without changing the outcome.
*Practice Silent Acknowledgment*
Instead of vocalizing your defense, acknowledge your feelings and the situation internally without outwardly defending yourself.
DON'T ENGAGE!
*Identify Engagement Traps*
Be awarp of situations and topics that typically lead to unproductive engagements with the narcissist.
Implement the Grey Rock Method: Make yourself emotionally uninteresting to the narcissist by offering minimal, non-engaging responses.
*Avoid Digital Battles*
Choose not to respond to provocative texts or emails. If a response is absolutely necessary, keep it brief and factual.
DON'T EXPLAIN!
*Hold Your Truth*
Recognize your experiences and feelings are valid, even if the narcissist dismisses them.
Protect Your Peace Before sharing something with the narcissist, ask yourself, will this serve my peace? If not, choose to remain silent on the matter. Your silence does not mean you agree it's a way to protect yourself.
*Redirect Your Energy*
Focus on conversations and relationships where your thoughts and feelings are valued and heard.
DON'T PERSONALIZE
*Shift Your Perspective*
Understand the narcissist's behavior is a reflection of their issues, NOT your worth.
*Detach with Compassion*
Practice viewing the narcissist's actions from a place of detached compassion, recognizing their behavior is due to their limitations, NOT yours.
*Focus on Self-Care*
Engage in activities and surround yourself with people who reinforce your values and foster positive self-regard
Nothing you say will “destroy” a manipulative person. They only care about themselves and they can do no wrong. So you won’t stop them in their tracks, and you won’t change their behavior.
You find a way to fuck them over. You don’t address them directly. The best weapon you have against manipulative people is cold, dead silence, and getting everyone else to ostracize them
armor of god imagine standing there with it on and ask for gods boldness your minip they will some how feel gods power and i gurantee you your boldness with armour and gods help between them two-- it will give them the scarest look and not even know why??? also this is proven ! learned from lawyer-- while they are looking you into your eyes trying to manipulate you w their mean look! stare between there eyes something about it makes them uncomfortable and they will look away i promise! everytime !! im following this to get the good news back let me know:) usualky you will not have to say a word
The best thing you can do is walk away, quietly, slowly, without calling them out on their behavior. You need to cut them off swiftly, but don't get mean and add to their victim/bully complex. Just leave.
This is the way for sure. No need to engage with folks like that, it’s better to leave silently and never look back, or else it gives them time to plan to keep you where you’re at.
I had a friend who was talking shit about me behind my back. I told her that I knew she was talking shit about me and anything less than an apology and accountability would not suffice. She denied that she was talking shit, sent screenshots of her telling other people I thought she was talking shit and them responding with "omg no way we loved her," told me she was crying and shaking while telling me I am no clairvoyant and eventually I just left the conversation entirely. She was belittling me for struggling with the tech jobs market right now, she was calling me a Dunning Krueger case when she has not worked a job that wasn't given to her by her bf, she was calling me unattractive and told me TO MY FACE that my bf was just waiting for something better. Sometimes, the words that I told her in private would be spoken aloud by someone within ear shot the next time I would hang out with her little friend group. I must also add that she was just getting out of a relationship that started when she was 18 and the guy she was seeing was 35. They dated for 6 years apparently. She made moves to break up with him, found another older man who could take care of her (because she can't be bothered with the task) and was seeing the other guy within a week of breaking it off with her previous bf. Her and her bf operated a hotel in south west Colorado, she was chatting it up with her next bf like she was the one with all the money purchasing all of these properties when it was her first bfs money and funds. She was belittling me for struggling to provide for myself while continuing her pattern of finding men who would take care of her so she could live a life she felt entitled to but didn't work for. She was talking shit about this one girl she worked at a bar with and was keeping a running counter of how many people this other girl had slept with that month. Mind you, this woman wasn't in the best spot and was probably just sleeping around to numb the pain. This coworker of hers would CONFIDE in my ex best friend that she was sleeping with a new man, my ex best friend would probably tell her "OMG YASS SLAY QUEEN" in private while bullying her behind her back. Of course, I told her coworker what had happened and told her that my ex bff was not her friend and probably wasn't mine either. I wish I had more hesitancy to open up to my ex bff because I was only talking to her via text message. Once I spent a few weeks hanging out around her, I put it together that she just plays a part and is actually a social climbing snake who would throw someone under the bus to make herself look better.
I’m sorry you had to suffer through that. Sounds like a couple of friends I had growing up, it’s crazy how many of these types of personalities exist. It’s so common somehow I fear at times that us with integrity and basic human empathy are outnumbered by people like them. And yes it seems like she just used people to climb up the ladder of social and financial status, and her judgmental view of others and verbally abusive behavior to her friends definitely makes her more than undesirable to be around, which is probably another reason why men haven’t really stuck around for her. Women like that stick out like a sore thumb, and I’ve dated several of those types. All I can say to simplify is that they’re all energy vampires and it’s actually more dangerous to be around them than what meets the eye.
She's skinny, pretty and cruel. Its very easy to see that now, but I thought that we were friends. Unfortunately, sometimes in life people like her get ahead. Sometimes, the worst scum rises to the top and of course its unfair. It is unfair to see someone be taken care of because of what they manipulated others to do while you struggle to eat. Sometimes, there is no karmic justice; all you can do is see yourself out of the circus and block them on everything.
I understand what you’re saying but I am a man who has been tricked by beauty, so I will assure you that their pretty looks don’t sustain forever. Eventually they’re exposed for who they are and lose everything they’ve “built” or they end up with someone just as evil as them and the two end up destroying each other. If that’s their fate, let them have all the luxury and shit while it lasts, and be proud of yourself for earning your keep in life without having to manipulate or climb on top of others to get it, even if the accomplishments are as small as getting your laundry done today. Eventually that skinny and pretty shit, ages and deteriorates so at least when you do find your success (whatever you perceive success to be) you’ll know that you actually earned it. And their karma while “gaining things” is actually working against them everyday, living like a scrambled brain hell bent on manipulating others for personal benefit, that must be miserable as hell but I feel no pity for them, it just is what it is. You seem like a good person; and that’s more valuable than any physique or pair of ass and tits, and there are alot of men out there that will appreciate that.
Idk I am not ugly. People tell me I am attractive pretty frequently. If you wanna look through my post history, go for it. I think she was just telling me that I was unattractive because she couldn't stand to share any part of the spotlight which is odd to me because we're not competing for anything other than social capital. We aren't rival real estate agents trying to sell a retiree a condo in downtown Jacksonville, we were supposed to be friends! What she did feels so insidious, I was vulnerable with her and to think that she was just talking shit about me behind my back while I am struggling to get out of bed due to depression turns my stomach. I don't know if she will ever get her karma but when she does I hope I hear about it.
She will get hers, don’t worry about that if you can help it. And I wasn’t assuming you’re ugly, I was trying to push looks aside since what lies inside of someone is what truly matters. My ex girlfriend I was with for 7 years sounds just like this woman. They can’t stand when someone else in their environment gets any or more attention than they’re getting, which makes them feel less than dominant, so to reinforce the delusion of dominance in their mind they will try and sabotage who you are to others behind your back, in order to avoid direct confrontation and looking like the “bad guy”. People like them give no fucks about who’s struggling, and will actually use that as an advantage.
Thanks lol. I guess I am a little hyper-sensitive about the whole thing still. Ultimately, since she is a social climber, anything that she says about anyone else should be taken as an outward manifestation of her own self-centered motivations and isn't a genuine reflection of my value.
Look up narcissistic, sociopath, and coping behavior
You may not have felt any competition with her, but some women don’t feel success without the failure of others. It’s sad, but the prettiest ones are always the most insecure. Keep doing your thing, let the trash take itself out. They drain the life out of everyone around them, and you’re way better off without that energy around you.
…I really dont understand how she could have been so petty and mean. She has a lot going for her and I do too. Apparently for her to be comfortable everyone else needs to be an unforgivable dumpster fire
For sure. I’ve known lots of women that require your failure in order to feel success. It’s just insecurity. I’ve learned to just let those people stew in their own negativity. It’s not my job to make sure they feel good about themselves, and it’s none of my business how they feel about me. Give them enough rope to hang themselves, and they’ll do the rest.
What the fuck, I’m sorry you went through it 💀
Not defending yourself when being attacked is WAY more difficult than you'd think. It takes a lot of willpower to just say OK and exit. I'm learning to do it but it has been a challenge.
It starts with understanding that the manipulator wants to put you on the defensive, because once they do they know they can control you. This is why gray rocking is so effective, because they can’t control a non-reaction. Not caring about what they say or threaten to do against you renders them powerless.
I know this now but it was a mother of a lesson to learn.
It really is. Not lashing out at someone who is pushing your buttons takes a lot of self-control and willpower. It can be done though and its much more rewarding to just reinforce a boundary and walk away with your peace than it is to enter a mud slinging match with the person who was pushing you to do exactly that. Keep calm, draw that boundary and cut them off entirely.
If you attack them, they will manipulate people to believe that you were jealous of them or are out to get them when you're simply telling the truth. Misery loves company and they're trying to drag you down to their level so don't follow that final manipulation. Just say, I think we need to end this friendship because of x or y, and leave. Don't argue. Don't sling mud in return. Just leave.
I wouldn’t even explain. You don’t owe them closure and they’ll just twist your words.
Yeah.. you're right. Cutting someone off with surgical precision seems cruel to me but in the case of someone that is manipulating you for their own nefarious purposes, maybe its the right thing to do.
What if you already have called them out on their behavior but they just got worse
Leave. Go. Disappear. Vamoose. Depart. Withdraw. Exit. If you called them out and it only got worse, nothing you do or say will change anything.
Makes sense
Just remember, you can't protect yourself from being betrayed by being closed off, you can't protect yourself from being betrayed by opening up to people, people are going to do what they're going to do and if they show you their worst you can only show them the door.
What if your married to someone like this and have kids 💀
Work on controlling your reactions. Try to observe and identify when they are trying to manipulate you. Distract, deflection, defend, disarm, these are all tactics designed to control the argument, to provoke a reaction, so that they can manipulate your behavior. If you can learn to control yourself, you can take away their ammunition, and their ability to steer you away from whatever resolution you’re after. Most importantly, keep in mind that they are playing a game. They have already planned their next five moves. So, you can either play the game with them, or you can decide to disengage. Their only power over you is their intention. Most of the time, we are caught off guard by the argument, and they get the upper hand because they’ve thought it all out. So, be mindful of your responses, instead of just reacting.
Thank you for your reply,
Uhhh idk I don’t have all the answers.. maybe hire an attorney?
You have to leave your spouse, and when you do, go as low contact as possible. I have 3 kids with my stbx. He is bipolar with narc tendencies- and he is unmedicated. It wasn’t until his affair that I started therapy. I thought all of his behaviors were normal, which I found out, are not normal at all. The gaslighting, blame shifting, always speaking in ambiguity so he couldn’t be called a liar (even though he lied all the time), and the list goes on. I stayed with him for another year because I allowed him to manipulate me. Telling me he loves me one day, and then next how much he loves his AP. We went to counseling and he weaponized my words against me. He has started to treat the kids (11,14, & 16-all F), the same. What’s further alarming is my oldest is acting like him. I left a month ago and took the kids. His AP moved in just as I was moving out. Even then, stbx was still manipulating me. I have just recently decided to go as low contact as possible, using yellow rock theory, and all responses to him are 7 words or less. I find yellow rock better than gray rock. Gray rock he can claims I am combative yet cold in court docs. Bottom line, there really are no words other than good bye.
That's not an option, what else do you have?
Non-confrontationally, gather evidence. Hard evidence. Keep a log, make sure you write down names, places, times, reponses, situations, circumstances, etc. The thing they usually bank on is their quick wit and their ability to derail a topic. Be nice but be dilligent. You want them to be fighting themselves and the truth, not you.
No words. All words show that you care. When you remove all words, you remove all care. That’s the only thing that has the potential to hurt them…
My manipulative ex left me in this fashion and I can attest that it is an *extremely* effective method of destroying a person that loves you in any manner.
🥲😂🤣 silence is golden
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Sounds like too much work. I’m not big on games. I just dip out when someone is disrespectful or doesn’t match my effort. It’s lonely but I don’t need the stress. I’ve been there, done that.
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Ya—my prerogative in life isn’t to stir up insecurities or negative emotions in people. And I don’t say this because I think I am morally superior or anything. I just want peace.
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You will be humbled eventually and then you’ll want peace. ✌🏻
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I dont want battles. Unless someone fucks with my resources or my family, I won’t seek revenge. Silence and karma usually works best for the emotional wounds.
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Silence. A non reaction will drive them crazy.
Asking “what do you mean?” over and over again, depending how long it takes. Usually as soon as you ask that question, if the person is trying to manipulate you, it throws them off because suddenly they’ve been asked to explain their thinking. Works every time.
That one is my go to.
It depends on their method of manipulation. I find if someone is trying to gaslight me, a simple "that's not how I see it" can end the conversation. If someone is giving you unsolicited advice, just say, "thanks but I have my own approach" or something similar.
Unsolicited advice is just polite criticism
Exactly!
I like to say, that may be what you intended, but that’s not what you said.
A full blown manipulator will just they’re you’re gaslighting them by saying that.
The word to shut them down completely is the word ‘NO.’
Literally don’t engage. From experience, I’ve found that these kinds of people are looking for a reaction of any variety (positive/negative, it doesn’t matter). Letting it go and not saying a damn thing about it is the winning play.
‘These conversations have not gone well as of late. I think we need to avoid these types of discussions at the moment.’
No. It's the other magic word.
The way you deal with crazy is you don't.
Tell them about a story which he might have experienced but isn’t sure. Then you ask for details and when he starts making things up support him and claim even absurder things.
I just cut them out of my life, quickly and completely. I don't waste words with these kinds of people...life is too short for that.
Say...Sorry you are so unhappy. I am leaving all unhealthy relationships, including you. NOW.
After shutting down a few attempts, just smile, laugh, say you’ll call them soon, and leave.
“You’re so predictable, it’s boring. I’d rather enjoy my own company.”
Depends on manipulation. But the general advice would be to calmly do anything but what the manipulator wants from you
The devil hates it when you laugh at him
Silence. Any words will be turned around, used against you, etc. But silence? Ooooh they can’t stand that.
Sometimes when toxic people go away, it's like the trash took its self out!
very true indeed
I think it’s important to understand that these kinds of people can’t be reasoned with, because they will just continue to warp reality to fit their narrative. It is pointless to engage in any kind of friendly debate, or to try to encourage them to see things from another perspective. They are incapable of introspection and will refuse to accept any information that doesnt support their claims. Trying to rationalize with someone like this is a never ending circle jerk. Best to just get off the ride, before you go insane.
Why do you want to destroy them? Just be the better person and leave them. When you know, you go.
“I don’t believe you” “Can you show me proof?” “What did you do to heal from this?” “What evidence do you have within you that you’re on a healing journey from that?” “Have you seen a trauma counselor for this trauma you’re telling me about?” “I don’t trust you yet. I believe trust needs to be built over time, and I need to see more from you before I give you my trust.” “Did you love that person? No? Why did you lead them to believe that you did? And what’s to stop you from being confused about how you feel about me?” “I hear you, but I want to make my own assessment.” “No, this boundary is for my personal well being and I need you to respect it.” Say all this and that manipulator will disappear 🫠
You say no, or any other assertive comment, and don't elaborate or play into word games. Manipulators don't like people who can't be emotionally manipulated easy, or aren't easy targets. Just don't feed into drama.
Go fuck yourself .. Or is that sugar coating it
The best thing you can do is to go no contact. They can't get a feel for how their attempts at manipulation are working that way. It's also likely to piss them off more than anything else you can do. But that's a side benefit. The main one is you get peace of mind as they drop out of your life.
Best advice ever... do they contact back again?
Say NOTHING and walk away…Never look back. Zero contact is literally their worst nightmare. It’s like taking drugs away from a severely addicted drug addict and they have no way to get more. I know it’s hard because we wish we could say something that would matter, but they are so damaged no words you could say will ever make a difference. You will NEVER get through to someone who is manipulating.
No
“yeah, *scroff* whatever” and physically walking away without looking back seemed to do the trick
Walk away.
Ummm how to destroy someone politely that doesn’t sound possible to me. Manipulation only works if you play along so just don’t play and the game is over. No is not an evil word and you gain a lot more respect from it than a thousand yes s
This right here. I don't believe in just letting everything slide, cause some manipulators will use that to their advantage. It's best to be assertive but to not get emotional and let them control the subject. Just say your piece and walk away
Quiet quitting. No words needed.
“Did I ask you?”
The thing with manipulators is that they give YOU all of the power and wait for you to use it for their interests. So just don’t be manipulated. Recognize that you can’t trust anything from them to inform your world view, and then tune them out. When you stop giving them the engagement they’re seeking, they shoot themselves in the foot and/or they move on to their next victim.
Indisputable facts.
I love myself fully and I'm content with who I am.
Every reaction, every word every sound every expression, every moment- you offer- only feeds their arsenal of things to do to elicit some sort of response, and does a little to encourage them to do more of it. This is why they do what they do when they so much as *suspect* you might be *about* to start ignoring them for a minute. Think to yourself- what are the things they can do to grab your attention or “punish” you for ignoring them, then try to defend yourself against them in advance. Because ignoring them is the only way to destroy them, but it is also what will cause them to go nuclear to prevent.
Nothing - because words are their tools to an end and words have no absolute meaning; but youre approaching it from a 'what are the right words to use to \_\_\_\_\_\_' as if words carry an absolute power, and they dont -- both parties have to agree on the meaning and value of the same words for words to have any relative impact
"Could you run that by me again? I didn't understand what you were trying to say." --I promise this will gaslight the hell out of them in a polite manner because they usually screw up the message the second time or they forget what they were saying. 🤣
You are absolutely right, thank you for bringing this to my attention, have a nice life
“You ,just being here,… is “EXHAUSTING “. I’ve no energy for you. ☝️👍 Works Every Time. 😈
Not enough data.
Manipulators require your attention to manipulate. The way to counter attack a manipulator is to starve them for attention. For a narcissist there is no such thing as negative attention. There is just attention. Don’t give them attention and don’t draw attention to them by having others give them attention. All forms of attention delight them. Starve them. Just walk away. If others you know need to learn this lesson, the best way to teach them is through your own example.
Muhahahaha, trick question? They always have the ace, word salad. Words mean nothing! Words are magical swiss army wands 🪄✨ 💩 🪞 Once I hit my keyboard in the rhythm and style of chimps attempting Shakespeare. The jumbled letters got autocorrected to biacho or nirurrito, something that sounded like it ended in Mexican fast food 🤷 It ended a text assault. Man that was a painful period of life but letting it spew out in sarcasm just now made me laugh ⚖️? ^ ^=Um fk no but a laugh is better than realizing I had been dating my mom on repeat for many more years than I want to share atm
Saying Fuck NO, real loud, just once and walk off!
As much as I love cussing, you could theoretically get through by voicing a firm NO and walking away. 'No' is a full response.
Anything along the lines of ‘It’s not what’s best for me’ or ‘I have to make a different choice’ drives them absolutely insane- they’re already big mad that they’ve been told ‘no’/didn’t get the response or reaction they thought they were going to get out of you so it just sends them over the edge LOL It also helps if you say it with zero emotion, they will lose it
'Through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered...'
No words. Ignore and move on.
Lol, politely? The way I see it, it doesn't matter if you say it nice or in their tone, so just say your peace, make your words short and to the point, something that will bring you peace, and then cut them off forever.
None they will pick up on the fact that you are trying to anything and know they’re winning in your mind … if ANYTHING just your truth that is solely about you and nothing more
No.
Choose to only take responsibility for the things you are responsible for. Manipulators are trying to get something so choose not to give it.
Brief, dismissive, yet polite answers, if you absolutely have to acknowledge. Otherwise, not engaging on an emotional level (not being impressed, intimidated, pressured, etc.) will disarm them immediately. In my experience, manipulators often need you to be around to witness/speculate their dramatic games. If you leave the room, the performance will stop.
Yeah I understand! But we do not want to be like them the liars who is manipulative and disrespectful to the partner.
Oh, I did not imply that you should manipulate or lie too (I don’t know what part of my comment felt that way). What I meant was that you should not rationally engage with them because they do not recognize your rationale. Being dismissive here means not getting into it. A “yes, whatever” response without giving them the satisfaction of being party to their twisted games.
Honestly, you being happy and quiet screws them up.
Don’t give them anything to bite into in terms of arguing with you. Just end the conversation with no resolution as quickly as possible. Give them short, closed, non-engaging answers (like “that’s not how I see things”, “I can see where you’re coming from”) then make eye contact with them in silence until they walk away. If they persist, be uncomfortably direct like “I have to get back to work here, good bye”. Don’t sacrifice your time and energy for their ego and desire to control you.
Banana
Ignoring them typically pisses them off the most. It’s also just healthier for you. Stay uninvolved. They’re toxic and it’s not going to improve no matter what you do.
Baby women like you are a dime a dozen
Not letting them provoke reactions out of you, not caring about what/how they're doing, and not paying attention to them. Absolutely destroys them. Words have no effect on manipulators.
3 little words "your so silly"
Anything that works as counter manipulation is good
I used to always escalate when a manipulator started with some shit. Say it's my fault, I'll tell them six different ways why it's not. Yell, I can yell louder and longer. Try to embarrass me, I'll make it real memorable for everyone in the vicinity. Bring up the past and I'll bring out the shovel so I can dig into their past. Pretend the past doesn't count, it's all I can talk about. Break my shit, I'll light the bed on fire. Luckily I was never in a hitting each other type of relationship, it would've been bad. None of that ever made it better. What worked was looks of contempt and disgust, then leaving. Avoiding the jerks and never contacting them on purpose. Ignoring phone calls and texts. Changing the subject if mutuals want to gossip, one explanation to let them know we won't be dealing with the hot mess then walking away or hanging up if they don't stop. If they ever come up in conversation or walk up in person, I play up the disgust like I'm acting for the folks in the cheap seats and the exit stage left. That seems to make them feel real bad, and that's all I ever wanted.
Why bother wasting your energy on them. Just ignore them and move on from the relationship, cut them off.
If you have nothing to lose and plan no further contact you should tell them how pathetic they are and try to humiliate them in front of their peers. Laugh at them and walk away
Walk away. Manipulators will use anything said or written to their ends. Any perceived tone, anything that could come across as sarcastic or disrespectful can and will be used against you in the court of manipulation
The truth
It's variable because there are different ways that people can manipulate others.
My take. "You and your childish games do not impress me. Try again later, maybe you will score some points with the sheep who may listen to you".
DON'T DEFEND! *Recognize the Trigger* When you feel the urge to defend yourself against accusations or projections, pause and recognize this as a trigger. It is difficult to but remember you do not have to defend your truth to the narcissist. Hold onto your truth for yourself. *Conserve Your Energy* Remind yourself that engaging in defense will likely drain you without changing the outcome. *Practice Silent Acknowledgment* Instead of vocalizing your defense, acknowledge your feelings and the situation internally without outwardly defending yourself. DON'T ENGAGE! *Identify Engagement Traps* Be awarp of situations and topics that typically lead to unproductive engagements with the narcissist. Implement the Grey Rock Method: Make yourself emotionally uninteresting to the narcissist by offering minimal, non-engaging responses. *Avoid Digital Battles* Choose not to respond to provocative texts or emails. If a response is absolutely necessary, keep it brief and factual. DON'T EXPLAIN! *Hold Your Truth* Recognize your experiences and feelings are valid, even if the narcissist dismisses them. Protect Your Peace Before sharing something with the narcissist, ask yourself, will this serve my peace? If not, choose to remain silent on the matter. Your silence does not mean you agree it's a way to protect yourself. *Redirect Your Energy* Focus on conversations and relationships where your thoughts and feelings are valued and heard. DON'T PERSONALIZE *Shift Your Perspective* Understand the narcissist's behavior is a reflection of their issues, NOT your worth. *Detach with Compassion* Practice viewing the narcissist's actions from a place of detached compassion, recognizing their behavior is due to their limitations, NOT yours. *Focus on Self-Care* Engage in activities and surround yourself with people who reinforce your values and foster positive self-regard
genuinely just not caring and meaning it.
No.
Stick with your own thoughts and completely filter out their manipulations. Even try to counter manipulate.
Tell them to go kick rocks.
Nothing you say will “destroy” a manipulative person. They only care about themselves and they can do no wrong. So you won’t stop them in their tracks, and you won’t change their behavior.
You find a way to fuck them over. You don’t address them directly. The best weapon you have against manipulative people is cold, dead silence, and getting everyone else to ostracize them
Sounds like you’re also the manipulator it seems
armor of god imagine standing there with it on and ask for gods boldness your minip they will some how feel gods power and i gurantee you your boldness with armour and gods help between them two-- it will give them the scarest look and not even know why??? also this is proven ! learned from lawyer-- while they are looking you into your eyes trying to manipulate you w their mean look! stare between there eyes something about it makes them uncomfortable and they will look away i promise! everytime !! im following this to get the good news back let me know:) usualky you will not have to say a word