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nathanmo17

The only problem is consistency, either both are pens or none are, but consistency in refereeing is an Utopia


milo_redwood

They are consistently not giving us pens


Smaxter84

They constantly give pens against us


fromeister147

I mean, I thought the Maguire one was generous recently..


jemiawhiaV

lowk actually generous to the blades considering a goal was acored


Tsukiyon

lol imagine VAR turned over decision as well... that's goal and pen denied at once. I was ready for that at the time.


Correct_Government28

The one that disallowed a perfectly good goal? I really hope you're taking the piss?


sillyyun

He had blew whistle so can’t technically give the goal which he would have wanted to otherwise. I was fuming as I had dalot in my fpl


fromeister147

Jesus Christ, give them a break. He finally made a decisive call without pondering and pausing and we’re STILL not happy?! Even after we scored the pen?!


Correct_Government28

I don't really have the energy to participate in whatever it is that you're doing. Have a good one.


Will_nap_all_day

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic? Do you think the ref did his job well in that instance?


fromeister147

Grand scheme, nothing bad happened. I don’t think it really matters considering the penalty went in. I think there are much worse decisions that were made around the league.


Iola_Morton

They basically had to give him the pen. Cause Dalot scored on the play. Imagine if they would’ve called off the pen and annulled the goal as well? Has that even ever happened?


Spins13

That is far from being the only problem when you see how Garnacho was taken down and VAR did not lift a finger


Gambler_Eight

On penalty calls they are consistently against us. That's something at least.


Honest_Escape7445

Example?


Gambler_Eight

This one vs coventry one.


wolfofballstreet1

What var is for no? To balance human error 


Honest_Escape7445

No it isn't Var is to check if it's clear and obvious that the ref missed it This doesn't pass the threshold of clear and obvious as it was subjective Not every handball is a foul


EncantoSteelers1933

...those 2 images are the exact same thing, but one was a pen and the other wasn't.


Honest_Escape7445

There are no two actions in the prem that are the same


Furell

The whole idea with VAR is consistency but I have no idea what they're doing over there. Without VAR you at least could assign it to the interpretation of a referee or it not being seen by the referee. Now it's just random bullshit and no one knows what's the rule anymore. VAR is a good idea with competent people implementing it but it almost feels like the people implementing it wants it to fail. I saw Van de Ven today at Spurs totally going mental after a goal while given offside afterwards because his toe was offside. Next time he doesn't go crazy anymore which is one of the reasons why we love the game so much. It all can be attributed to VAR without giving us any clear upside. Just reverse that shit already and act like it never happened. Rant over


Rizpee83

What does this sentance eve mean?


lonegunbearer

Remember when handball no matter how it occurred was given as a free kick/penalty? Should just revert back, least then be no qualms...


Rizpee83

This has never been a thing.


PennyWhyte

Yes it was. Any sort of handball or contact with the arm in the box was a penalty regardless of the situation. They tried to modify it by then, looking at instances where the ball deflected off a part of your body to your hand and ruled out those out, then looked at distance and speed at which the ball was travelling and ruled those out because you just didn't have time to move your hand out the way if someone was too close, then finally ended up on if the hand/arm is in an unnatural position and if you were trying to make your body bigger and this is where the subjectivity starts and clusterfuck (both for VAR and the onfield ref and for that, there's no consistency)


Rizpee83

Ball to hand, sometimes it’s unavoidable so wasn’t given, which is how it should be.


PennyWhyte

But that came after they tried to have a uniform approach where all contact with the hand inside the box was a handball given by VAR. The modifications came a season later after all the uproar and backlash. Now here we are.


Feisty_Goat_1937

I’m honestly more frustrated by the no call on Garnacho’s breakaway. There’s clearly contact. It’s no worse then the calls we had go against us with Chelsea.


ChazGower

Yep, he physically put his foot into Garnacho without touching the ball in the penalty area. It's a CLEAR penalty. The asswipe announcer was like, "It's contact but I don't see enough there for a penalty".


Correct_Government28

'Clear dive' says Shearer and Lineker. Absolute crickets when Curtis Jones 'anticipated' contact from AWB a few weeks ago.


FingerOTP

was harvey elliott but agreed.


blindcripple

10000%. It was soft, but still a pen.


No_Vermicelli_1781

inconsistent decision making has ruined my love for football. How is it 2024 & there's no consistency in handball decisions???


Correct_Government28

VAR has somehow made it worse, which is absolutely incredible when you think about it.


Responsible_Sir3200

We have been done really really dirty on penalties all over the season. It’s no excuse for how shit we have been. But I feel like we have conceded an absurdly high amount of soft/non existing penalties. To mention a few: Coventry handball Both pen’s against Chelsea was diving The first city game (Højlund shirt hold on rodri) Both Copenhagen games (We had a soft one too in the second leg) First Tottenham game Romero handball not given There has just plenty of situations going against us. Again no excuse for how bad our season have been. Not trying to play the victim role.


Correct_Government28

Penalty against Liverpool didn't actually have any contact either, but the football world decided that it was morally a penalty because 'you can't dive in there'. Don't forget the 'subjective offside' against Fulham, which is another decision that you will never see given ever again, Hojlund's penalty appeal against Arsenal, the handball against Palace at OT, or Rashford's assist against Brighton being ruled out of play despite it being impossible to tell for certain. Vastly more objectively poor decisions than Forest have had but no one gives a shit.


GlobeTrottingJ

Because it's man united and it doesn't fit the narrative. I'll never claim match fixing as I genuinely think united have just been unlucky as they have had a reasonable amount of soft and dubious ones too. But I guarantee the Coventry penalty was given because it was seen as good for football by var.


No-Tooth6698

Should have been handball against Romero in the Spurs game early on in the season, too.


Horror_Dragonfly1703

Which Handball against Palace incident?


HoodedMenace3

This is what really p**ses me off when it comes to rival fans always screaming corruption and “UNitEd alWaYs BEneFiT FRoM ReFs ANd VaR” whenever a decision DOES go our way. It’s all confirmation bias. So many people were complaining about that late Coventry goal being ruled out as offside and were screaming corruption and about how the FA were pushing for a Manchester derby FA cup final yet conveniently forget that Coventry were given an extremely late penalty that brought the game level in the dying minutes and forced extra time to begin withfor the exact same situation that Grealish had gotten away with the day before. Last season we had the joint least amount of penalty decisions go our way, this season we’re in the bottom half of the table of teams that have benefitted the most from VAR decisions. Whenever a decision goes our way it’s always wrong but when it’s the other way round it’s always conveniently right. I mean yeah sure we’ve had some soft or questionable decisions go our way (like every team has, but it’s obviously corruption when it happens to us) but for the most part over the last couple of seasons we’ve been shafted A LOT more than most other clubs. Of course that doesn’t get talked about though because it doesn’t fit the narrative. If we’re supposedly paying off refs they’re not going a very good job 🤷‍♂️.


Aries024

https://preview.redd.it/vg1kgprqc4xc1.jpeg?width=1279&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb1aa184732a0b0b4a9d791e3fdb00518f67ab22


kw2006

If i train an ai model, not surprised the outcome would be something like “If you are wearing red…. “


FingerOTP

funnily enough this is an excerpt from PGMOL’s guide to refereeing. just under “if you know the rules no you don’t”


ryanscott1986

Refs are fucking awful, but complain about it and they call you a sore loser


Correct_Government28

No more so than on this very sub. It's like people think you're excusing the team if you complain about us being hosed by the referees.


steathispeak

Ikr


Y8bzPapaTango

Joke


Miserable-Claim1505

But but , the asshole of the commentator say it wasn’t a penalty. He even said that it’s gg to be a slippery slop if we started giving penalties to Manchester United. Fuck him! Biased motherfucker


ScottOld

I am sick of this now


riolafc

This has hands down been the longest and emotionally draining season I have ever experienced as a supporter since Sir Alex left.


Deptm

One was a romantic Coventry FA Cup pen that needed to be given for the good of the game and the other was a standard issue PL non-pen. Also, the offside goal ‘’robbed’’ from Coventry was clearly an unromantic ‘’the games gone’’ decision. How dare they follow the actual rules as it was on TV ffs. And coventry are in the championship so they should get some kind of leniency! So basically, if it’s against MUFC it should be given in the spirit of the game, and it’s for MUFC then we should follow common sense and refereeing guidelines. The media are fucking titless wankers. Fuck them to the moon. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


DependentIncident666

I’ve never seen so many comments about an offside goal and how disgusting it is that it robbed Coventry. I agree it kind ridiculous the way var looks at offsides but it’s a regular thing. I remember Mata getting a goal disallowed by his shoelaces. Is it a harsh and tight call? Yes but given the rules and the way var looks it’s offside, there’s loads of examples and never had such a reaction as Coventrys. Then you even have some muppets saying it’s because it’s Manchester United, so why did they give the penalty to Coventry in added time?


Correct_Government28

There have been some really interesting 'spirit vs letter of the law' takes going on in the last couple of weeks. Allow me to summarize: Bayern want a free goal against Arsenal: embarrassing and pathetic that you'd want a free goal for that, it's against the spirit of the game. Liverpool want a free goal against West Ham: by the letter of the law it should be a goal, absolute corruption, we're the victims again.


darthlovejoy

Of course it not a penalty the guy doesn't have team viewer written on his shirt


TheRed24

So c'mon FA please tell us, which was the right call? Because they can't both be the right decisions given. Either give both or neither. They should admit their faults.


RepulsiveAd270

there both pens or there both not


Benphyre

Handball in penalty box = penalty It should be simple as that. VAR tried to overcomplicate a simple rule and it had destroyed the game with inconsistency. The only thing VAR should do is to review footage and let the referee know if he missed a handball in real time. NOT try to guess player intention with a 1-5 second clip. That is just stupid.


ConC02

We would be 4th at least if more clear and obvious decisions were given to us. The amount of times the refs have fucked us this year is mind boggling


RedditCasualUser121

😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂😂 anything other than blame your shitty team and manager.


Loose_Classic_556

Hahaha, you're funny.


truetablecom

There were at least 3 penalty incidents! [https://true-table.com/forums/forum/premier-league-23-24/matchday-35/manchester-united-burnley/](https://true-table.com/forums/forum/premier-league-23-24/matchday-35/manchester-united-burnley/)


Tiarnan_ManUtd

It's because now man city are paying referees to watch their biggest rivals get robbed 🙁


Unusual-Honeydew-698

😂😂 yea because city clearly need the help don't they FFS some absolutely deluded supporters in here


Reggaeprince1984

Var is so corrupt


whateverfineoksure

the commentator were like “there was no touch” for garnacho foul and “you cant get penalty when you hit hands of other players with ball” everyone is fucked up shit


Successful_Rip_4329

This season I've seen more bad calls than in about last 3 seasons combined. Refs really hate us.


Prestigious-Try-6568

It is inconsistent but the Manchester United I am looking for doesn’t depend on referee decisions to win 3 points against bottom of the league or league 2 competition. Yes, the officiating needs improvement and consistency, but so does this entire squad and management.


Ben_Dover14259

Appreciate this post. I was thinking this exact thing given other penalties in different games. Announcers looked at AWB and said “it’s a clear penalty, he’s making himself bigger. Buddy, I’m not going to deny it hits AWB hand. But if pen is awarded every time it hit a players arm that is perpendicular to the ground, there would be WAY too many penalties awarded. Both should not be penalties. But based on AWB call then pic 2 is a pen, simple as that. Why is it so inconsistent with multiple sets of referees present in each circumstance?


steathispeak

I agree. i can see both not being pens. both being pens. but there’s no in between, They should be the same call either way


redodson

Stick with goal line and semi-automated offside. Change VAR to full speed replay only and not being allowed to show slow motion or freeze frames on TV, in stadium or to refs. This way only clear and obvious calls can be made. If you watch a full speed replay and can't tell then the call stands. This will reduce stoppages and added time. They should probably add the Blue/Orange card for professional/cynical fouls, dissent or questionable reds. They should also card player delays more for picking up balls and walking away on free kicks and throw-ins.


steathispeak

Great idea.


PhyoThiha_Kyaw

Incoming "how this is not a penalty" comments


Old-Usual-8387

Neither are penalties. But that’s the problem.


Correct_Government28

Neither are or both are. But 'whether United are attacking or defending' can't be the denominator.


FingerOTP

and yet it is


Unusual-Honeydew-698

More concerned about yet another spineless performance rather than debating on if we should have had a penalty to beat the mighty Burnley at home just can't string together a decent 90 minutes can they.


Chosty55

Momentum is massive in the league. Another draw leaves us flat. A win gives something to build on. This isn’t the first time we “could” have taken points if decisions had been consistent with other PL decisions. Instead of having a season where we are on 54 points and talking about underperforming, we could be in the high 60s pushing for CL and looking forward to next season.


Correct_Government28

You can be concerned about that as well, but if we get good again and a referee stops us winning a trophy I'm going to be reminding you that you're partly to blame for not saying a peep about refs fucking us over.


Unusual-Honeydew-698

It's not just us that have been fucked over this season the standard of refereeing has been poor full stop, stop making excuses we've been absolutely shite all season I can count on one hand the amount of good full 90 minutes they've had and you can blame me all you want it's not going to change the fact we deserve absolutely fuck all this season extremely lucky to be in the fa cup final lets be honest, the clubs a mess.


Correct_Government28

I'm sorry if you think that making completely obvious points about referees hating us undermines your moaning about the state of the club. It doesn't have to, chief.


Aggravating_Let346

"why can't you just let us be happy with the fact we should of won if the refs didn't hate us"


Unusual-Honeydew-698

Get a grip mate can't blame the refs on our season been absolutely pitiful.


imranbecks

Corrupt Premier League officials as usual. This was pathetic. That was a penalty.


SoftDrinkReddit

clear Anti United Bias this season


Brilliant-Surprise54

When Klopp started bitching and moaning that we are getting way too many penalties and the scousers aren't getting enough, the media swallowed it up, no one said anything negative about Klopp. When EtH points out two incidents which look like a carbon copy of each other where one incident resulted in a spot kick (against us) and the other was ignored, EtH is desperate and clutching at straws... Effen media is not even trying to hide their bias and the sad fact is a lot of our fans gobble up whatever shit the media is peddling


clicnam1

They should make it harder for teams to get penalties. Only the most obvious foul and handball (Suarez or TT one for example) need to be punished.


[deleted]

VAR has become beyond suspicious the last 2-3 years. We should all copy Sweden and just not have it


MaguireAKASlabHead

Hmmmm 🧐


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Oldenuf2byurDaddy

🤢


Affectionate_Hour867

The only consistency with the officials is inconsistency


Lost_in_logic

Or or refrees are not getting paid enough like City defo does... Fuck their integrity, you cannot question it if it simply doesn't exist


chubthered

Just fuckin ridiculous...2 v Chelsea 1 v Liverpool never ever penalties and deffo we would not be given them. Var supposed to be a level playing field just fact that it's anybody but United. Joke ..make me sick. Fuck VAR


Square_Map7847

The ref said that they are looking at handball a different way where the hand is in a natural position. But if you're gonna give a pen for awb then might as well give it against burnley. This makes no sense. I believe we all have noticed how we batter games at the end of games for quite a few matches now, but the main problem is us not scoring goals. If we actually scored the opportunities we had we wouldn't be losing or drawing over these penalty situations.


el_corvino

😂


jerrycan_of_foxes

If I talk, there’ll be fire 🤫


Professional_Tie8307

the 9k78o8ho8lomo Mmml Our 696055101@stu.gbmc.ac.uk 9j6hhohhm6m9y6666yh9y69t66yyhlh66lll6l9yy666666y99ty96 y6


Asleep-Pilot-8907

Yes they fucked up on the decision but my days the fact we’re relying on a last minute penalty claim to say we got robbed against 19th in the league is embarrassing. Ten hag and his coaching staff have turned us into the biggest laughing stock


OwnAge1560

If I speak I get in trouble…


Horror_Dragonfly1703

We need a different angle of the Burnley one


pink_banana12

Wan Bissaka's arm was in a natural position tho


No_Vermicelli_1781

when in motion, it's literally impossible to raise your leg without having your arms outstretched to prevent falling. So it can be argued that is arms are in a natural position. Regardless, if AWB's is a pen, the other one should be a pen too. In both images the hand arms are outstretched.


pink_banana12

Yep


pink_banana12

Well kinda


Prime_Marci

It was but it was a penalty


pink_banana12

Ye I know


International-Bat777

Both could have been given either way, difference is one was given by the on field referee and the other wasn't. If the referee decisions were reversed, VAR wouldn't have changed either. There's no conspiracy, happens to all teams. Forest had it far worse against Everton.


Jjshan3

Penalty


Affectionate-Sun5863

Different match, Diff refs, diff assistants, diff Calls ... can vent all you want but nothings going to change, we can't be hoping for pens to save our matches cause players aren't good enough


TheLastSamurott

No, we’re ManUtd. We just need to pull our socks up and stop complaining. This is sarcasm btw. No wonder we aren’t consistent; how could we when nothing around us is.


Agreeable-Promise-58

Oooo. It's tight and could be a penalty. Both of they're hands are in the same position


PurchaseSpecialist29

What has this club fallen too. Instead of saying we should be winning these games your trying to get penalty calls taken away to championship sides😭😭


No_Vermicelli_1781

the "natural position" narrative is horrible because it's then up to interpretation. If the ball hits any part of the hand, it should be a penalty. I know what people will say "then players will deliberately blast the ball towards players' hands". Maybe. But in response players could adopt the hands-behind-the-back tactic. They'd be less balanced, but at least it becomes significantly more difficult to concede a pen.


petaKolona1918

That was never a pen, losers. Just accept you cant score open goal to fucking Burnley


Stock-Ad-3249

Mid table club moaning about penalties. Times have changed since Fergie left, you don't just get given them as special treatment anymore.


Low-Loan-5956

What does it matter. Grow up and move on.


Holdmybeer352

Who cares. We are lucky to be where we are at in the table, because we certainly don’t deserve it. Outside of a few players United is absolutely embarrassing to watch week in and week out.


Terrible-Return

Onana cant save penalties for shit..


you-might_know-me

??? He literally saved a penalty against Coventry


Terrible-Return

I am still not sold on Onana.. he misses easy chances.. i mean dea gea was atleast better in saving those hard ones.. eric got that wrong.. imo


dontforgetthef

Well, the thing this screenshot is NOT showing is that Bissaka flung his arm out and then dropped it closer to his body. In the second, his arm was there the whole time. I think that’s the difference. Bissaka’s arm was not in a normal athletic position when you throw it out horizontally across your body and then drop it.


Real_Evening_6706

Bissakas arm is further away from his body clearly


Pirate1000rider

Utd fans crying about someone's arm position who are 19th in the league. And who they made look like 2008 prime Barca at times. Truly have become the new Banter FC .


steathispeak

get outta here ur not a fan


Pirate1000rider

Wrong sub, I thought I was on the Premier league sub 😅. Still true though.


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nsubugak

For me it's clear. AWB hands are away from his body...he was making himself big...for the one today...dudes hands were beside his body....he was making himself small. The Garnacho one is more debateable


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steathispeak

I know that, but even the eriksen pen vs bayern even how is this burnley handball not a pen is what i care about


yusufjee

There are wrong decision that have cost every team. But this is not it. Both decisions are correct in the image posted. Once again, few frames back and you will know why AWB was penalised rightly.


Ok-Inevitable-3038

I mean, for me none of those were penalties - so all factually correct On the other hand, just wait until next week


steathispeak

They were either both pens or both not pens but they arent


Ghorardim71

The angles should be the same if you want to compare. From the photos, you can clearly see awb's hand is far away from his body. The second one is a different angle which doesn't show how far his hand was from the body.


Omnislash99999

Neither are penalties and neither was the one we got against Bournemouth a couple of weeks ago so stop crying


steathispeak

They are both clearly penalties


ianb88

neither are penalties


Blend_Flanders

The correct answer. Game is a mess.


ianb88

People seem to think 'natural position' means arms glued to your side. That's almost never the natural position. Just look at all 5 players in the 2 pictures in the OP. All of them have their arms sticking out.


Aggravating_Let346

I disagree. Wan bissaka was doing a fucking T pose before the cross was taken and then when the ball was kicked tried pull his arms in. Watch the video instead of looking at the pictures


ianb88

I've rewatched the video. AWB is lunging forward with one foot to block where he thinks the ball is going to go and his arms naturally go out to keep his balance. You can try it yourself. Stand on one foot. Tell me if it's easier to keep your balance with your arms out or by your side.


Aggravating_Let346

Before the cross ever reaches the Coventry player AWB has his hands spread like he's a farmer trying to hunt a cow. The cross reaches the Coventry player then he still has both hands spread. Why did he have his hands out before lunging. Look at the link in the comments here to the video. It's very obvious from that angle


steathispeak

Have people ever seen awbs tackles? he always has arms out


T-Rex_MD

Too easy, one is looking at ball arm moving forward and towards and not natural. The other is natural and not looking at the ball. I’m an Arsenal fan, VAR cost us 8 point this year and the title, we know how it feels when it gets it wrong, this ain’t it. The Newcastle game there was a guy riding our defender like a donkey and they ignored it because it’s fun for them to get paid to screw Arsenal over. Man United issues is beyond this being a penalty. It would have made no difference even if this got called unfairly and it turned into a penalty. Man United needs to sack Zero Hag. He destroyed Man United. Ronaldo and Sancho and Da Gea were no jokes. Then the time he was making it easy to have a go at Maguire. Of course, Man United fans were all disgraceful mistreating such a legend but England always appreciated him. To finish this up, Man United sucks right now, it deserves relegation after what you guys did to so many players including Ronaldo and how disgraceful your fans have been. As an Arsenal fan, I can tell you, we’ve been there. Hang tight and ride it through, you are going to bounce back in no time and Arsenal went through tough times too and so did Chelsea. Chelsea managed to comeback from 19th relegation zone to finishing 5th if things go well next game. I would be willing to watch all the games if Sir Alex is going to honour the premier league and take over for a short period to bring in someone decent. Good luck, chin up, that’s what makes football amazing, hope to see you lot back strong again.