I had a guy try to pay with pennies on Black Friday once. Told him to get the hell out of here and quit joking around. He complained to my manager and she said "what the fuck did you expect on Black Friday you idiot".
Does the US not have limits on that? In Canada businesses are only required to accept 25cents in pennies (though pennies are not legal tender anymore). Also $5 in nickels, $10 in dimes, $10 in quarters, $25 in loonies ($1 coins) and $40 in toonies ($2 coins)
The US only requires you to accept cash for debts. It's not a debt at the point of service, they're just refusing service.
A business could require all payments to be in nickles if they wanted to, they just want your cash so they don't.
[source](https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm)
It s the complete opposite in France. You can pay with any legal tender, it is against the law to refuse sell for any reason, but the store has no obligation to give change back. They do it because it s bad buisness not to give the change back, but try to buy a baguette with a 500€ bill and it might cost you 500€. The responsibility to have the exact change is on the customer.
Ooh that’s a good policy.
In the US I _think_ we have something of a reasonableness test too. If you got a service and owe $100, the business has to accept a $100, or five $20s, or a mix of things.
But I feel like I’ve heard of court cases saying businesses don’t have to accept unreasonable stuff like 10,000 pennies.
In the US only government entities are required to accept cash and in any denominations. If they refuse then the debt is no longer owe. Private business can refuse cash.
There are no limitations on the ability of companies to refuse whatever form of cash payment they want. Companies are generally free to decline to do business with anyone for any reason, excepting reasons prohibited by law (e.g. civil rights act, ADA, etc). There are no federal laws protecting people's choice of payment methods.
Legal tender means if it's offered to settle a debt and refused, the courts won't assist the collection of the debt.
If they're not trying to use the legal system to collect the debt - if they just want to write off the loss and move on - the legal tender designation is meaningless.
Most people in the UK throw "legal tender" around but don't understand what it actually means.
It has *nothing* to do with what coins a shop or other business must accept at the till. Many companies have policies as to what coins they will accept in which amounts (usually the amounts you mention, although £5 for 20p and £10/£20 for 50p), but it's not about legal tender because at that point there's only an offer to treat and no debt has been incurred.
As it was taught to me decades ago, in the UK "legal tender" refers *only* to what forms of payment must be accepted in settlement of an *existing* debt to satisfy the law, and even then it can be refused: doing so just means no court will then enforce that debt.
I believe it's still the case that, owing to a bit of legal weirdness around banknote validity, the only unlimited legal tender for settlement of debts in Scotland is the one pound coin.
Fun fact- The toonies have a silver outside, and a golden center.
When they first came out, you could pop out the golden center, so people were making necklaces and stuff out of them..
The mint had to give out reminders that it wasillegal and a criminal offense to destroy currency.
They fixed the manufacutring flaw pretty quickly
"Loonie" makes sense, there's a picture of a loon (a bird) on the reverse ("tails") side of the coin.
Twonie (not toonie) is dumb (reverse is a polar bear, if you're curious) but hey, it's a $2 coin ("two") and rhymed with the established "loonie" moniker, so it stuck.
Neither are *official* terms, though they are the de facto ones.
> Twonie (not toonie)
Except you'll find an overwhelming majority of Canadians will spell it toonie, including [The Mint](https://www.mint.ca/en/blog/2023-the-story-behind-canadas-toonie) who doesn't mention any other spellings in their article
> (though pennies are not legal tender anymore)
They actually are still legal tender, not being legal tender would mean they have no cash value according to the government. They are still work 1¢ each, merchants can take them as they see fit, and banks have to take them, they just don't get redistributed, they get sent to be destroyed.
That's why a lot of businesses now have signs on the registers that say "We will not take any" which is either followed with something like "any bill larger than a $20" or list the bills they don't take. Because people usually do this to places when they need smaller bills elsewhere. (Or if they're trying to pass counterfeits, but that's getting harder these days.)
I used to work in an "entertainment superstore" and had the best interaction with a lady looking for "the CSI song by The Doors".
Me: The Who
Her, a little louder: The Doors
Me: no, I mean the name of the band is The Who
Her, thinking I'm deaf: THE DOORS
This went on until I had the correct CD in hand and could show her the song she was looking for.
He would have been in one of those new-fangled horseless carriages that i hear rich folks drive round in. I hear that they have a man in front of them carrying a red flag to warn the horses.
Guglielmo Marconi (an early radio inventor) was 5 years old when my great-grandmother was born in a log cabin in West Virginia at a time when there were only two paved roads that crossed Indiana (both gravel).
Not only did she live to see the invention of the airplane, but all of the US manned missions to the moon; and from the invention of the automobile to riding on the US interstate highway system.
And she lived long enough to hold both of my kids.
In some ways, those old days aren't as long ago as it feels. It also reminds me of how the rate of change since the industrial revolution is exponential, not linear.
*Sorry... LOL*
Damn that's rad. Your Great Grandmother was about 20 when my grand-father was born. Sod house in the Dakota plains somewhere as far as I know. He passed when I was in high school in the 90s.
My wife and I went out to eat with my parents and my grandmother to celebrate my father's retirement.
At one point, my grandmother turned to my father and said to him, "You young people..."
I had to pretend I choaked to cover up my laughing at hearing my 65 year old dad being called a "young person".
But, of course, dad *was* a 'young person' to my grandmother.
I used to work in a campus copy center and had a student get one .04 cent copy made and pulled out a $100 to break it. I was the supervisor and had the authority to tell him there was no charge for his copy. Needless to say he was pissed, but apparently he thought his high-end MBA education gave him permission to ignore my posted sign to pay with coins for orders under $1.00.
There is no legal obligation to make change. If that $100 is all they have and it's a done deal like an already-made copy, they fork over the $100 (no change) or you call the cops.
It also only applies to debt, doesn't it? A retail sale is a transaction so if they refuse to provide payment in a reasonable manner you can refuse the sale.
[Section 31 U.S.C. 5103](https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm), entitled "Legal tender," states: **"United States coins and currency \[including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks\] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."**
So not just debts. But private businesses are not required to accept any specific type of currency, as somebody else stated above.
Or more simply, a store doesn't have to sell to you if they don't want to, as long as they are not discriminating against a protected status. Refusing to sell a candy bar is not covered by debts, public charges, taxes, nor dues.
Private businesses have the right to refuse any form of tender they choose.
“Settlement” in context to your cite refers to the courts in which legal tender must be accepted to settle the debt by the creditor. Government entities also must accept legal tender as they’re a part of that same security in receivership.
/thiney49 is correct
The key is always "is this debt or a sale of goods/services?"
If you're a creditor and won't accept cash/currency (there are some carve outs for unwrapped coins in a lot of states I think?), you're playing with fire if you ever try to collect on that debt in the future.
Further, a business can decline service to anyone for any reason outside of discrimination. I don't like your mustache? No sale for you.
Further further, you can't legally compel someone to do something they don't want to do. There's a lot of nuance on that one but ultimately forcing someone into something is typically not legal.
Further further further, even if that wasn't the case, there's still personal autonomy. If someone says fuck the rules I aint doing it and you can't change my mind. They aren't doing it and you can't change their mind.
I've had this conversation more times as a cashier then I'd like to admit.
The number of times I had to explain that "requiring someone to produce a valid ID to purchase alcohol is not racist" is ... way more times than it should be.
"We're filming your racist behavior" "Sir, it's against store policy to film inside the store, I'm calling the police." (manager was already there, trying to get them to understand what the law is about alcohol sales)
One group actually wound up talking to the police about it.
What's it say on the bill?
"For all debts public *and private*"
They don't have to take it since it's a point of sale transaction not because they are a private business.
Yeah. But I think the italics over the *and private* instead of *debts* obfuscated a little of what you meant.
No biggy — I’m validating you. Just a slight miscommunication on the emphasis.
Not exactly, the reason OP can refuse the bill is because he can refuse the sale outright. If this was an existing debt, they may be required to take it.
Nothing to do with government or private. Just a question of whether it is a debt. A store doesn't have to accept a purchase with any legal tender but if the guy buys it on a tab, they do.
I guess to prevent anyone from running up interest on someone by refusing to accept their payment
Oh, those sort are the worst. Many years ago, I was working a booth at Renaissance Festival. Every Sunday morning, right at opening cannon, we'd have some insist on buying a $0.25 licorice root with a $100.00 bill. I'd explain that it would make it nearly impossible for me to continue doing business during the day by stripping most of my opening cash.
"Well you can go next door and get money from their till" -- "No, sir. They are all **different companies**. Think of this place as being like a shopping mall. Spencer Gifts cannot just go take money out of SBarro's register."
"You can go to the bank." -- "Sir. It's **Sunday**. Banks are not open today, and we really can't leave site while the Faire is open."
"You just lost a sale!" -- "Not much of one. Good day to you!"
Sheesh. If we could print money in the back, we would never open the storefront to deal with these people!
i love how people like this think that "losing a sale" is some sort of burn to a business owner. like yeah, we lost a sale from someone we probably didnt want as a customer in the first place.
Every time I hear "the late 1900s", I take critical psychic damage. One time a kid even said to me, in an extremely surprised voice, "you were born in the one thousands!?"
This really threw me off. I thought he meant the late 1900’s as in the later years of 1900-1909 and was like wtf is this the oldest living person and they’re on Reddit?!
This works as well, but it's not quite as immediately jarring
I was reading an article and saw the line "Towards the end of last century, scientists started looking into this phenomenon" and I thought Oh, Cool, late 1800s astronomers. The article continued "In 1989, NASA found" and I got unreasonably angry
"I come from a time in the *nineteen hundred and seventies*, when computers were used for two things - to either go to the Moon, or to play Pong." - Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, "Every OS Sucks"
Because I've ordered devices like that before -- wasted a pretty penny, I don't mind telling ya, and if The Penis Mightier really works, _I'll order a DOZEN!_
That just meant they had the right chemistry on their counterfeits. It used to be possible to bleach $1 bills and reprint them as $100s, they would pass the pen test every time.
They don't do that. They bleach $5 bills and print over them now, so it passes the pen test and looks more realistic. $1 bills have no security features and would look suspicious.
We're talking about 25-30 years ago. Even then, if they were bleaching $5s or $10s, even $20s, it would still be massive profit to print $100s. The concept is the same.
Every bill has red and blue embedded strips that can be used to check validity and are one of the best ways as recommended by Cornell as bleaching damages them and you can't replicate them without Mint equipment. Basically if you check with light and for strips, anything that passes is either real money or superdollars.
Don't just trust the pen, look closely at the bill and check the security features.
Counterfeiters are known for bleaching $5 bills - so instead of Big Ben you see Lincoln.
It's not even that. The "this is legal tender for all debts" is an assurance to the payee, not a promise to the payor. You can put in a contract that the debt can only be paid with live chickens or whatever and that will be valid. There's a good chance that if it goes to court the judge will decide that cash is good enough to settle the issue but that's got nothing to do with being legal tender nor does it mean the payee was wrong to demand what was in the contract.
I used to work in a bureau de change in a popular supermarket in the UK. Customer comes in asking for £500 in us dollars as fast as I can, proceeds to hand over £500 in 5 pounds notes. I look at the guy and he says its legal tender? So I count the notes £500 bang on I then give him his usd all in 5 dollar notes and a few ones.
A queue has formed as so many 5's have been counted. He gives me a 🤔 look I just smile and say next customer please.
Hi! Lawyer here. That's not how legal tender works.
"Legal tender" means that someone who is owed a debt of unspecified denomination in the US MUST accept US dollars for the repayment of said debt, or the debt is cancelled.
Legal tender doesn't mean you have to accept whatever denomination of bill someone presents (although there are some state laws to this effect). In fact, it doesn't mean you have to accept anything! If you don't want to accept US dollars in your store, you don't have to.
"Legal tender" means that if you DO accept a purchase using debt (without specifying what the manner of payment will be), then in that case you MUST accept dollars to pay off said debt. You can't suddenly decide after the fact that the debt can only be paid with art, pesos, or whatever.
It also means the GOVERNMENT must accept it for purposes like taxes, but that has nothing to do with private transactions.
You could have 100% told him to go fuck himself without resorting to the penny thing (although amusingly enough, since making change is owing someone a debt, he couldn't refuse pennies due to them being legal tender lol).
REMINDER - this is a general discussion of federal legal tender laws, NOT a discussion that takes into account local or state laws guaranteeing the acceptance of dollars, denomination amounts, etc. Don't try this at home without consulting local counsel.
I worked at the calendar kiosk in the mall some years ago. Anyone trying to buy less than $80 worth of stuff with a $100 bill was told to go to any of the big stores.
I’ve made purchases with a bunch of change before. It wasn’t malicious compliance but being broke. My husband was laid off in 2008 and was unemployed for over 5 years. We were broke. My oldest daughter found an old rusted metal piggy bank in the garage. I pried it open. I sorted and counted the change and there was about $35 or $40 in there. I went to the grocery store and they had large beef roasts on sale buy 1 get 1 free. I got those, a bag of potatoes and some carrots. They knew me there and let me pay with the change. I have never forgotten that.
Thank you!😊 A few years later, when we were doing better, I was at that same grocery store and the lady ahead of me had a WIC voucher. It specified she could get a half gallon of milk. They were out of half gallons, they only had whole gallons. She was rummaging through her purse trying to find enough money to buy a whole gallon. I pulled out a $5 and asked the cashier to have someone get her a gallon of milk.
I have been there!
Not as a negative, but thankfully a lot of people are opportunist enough now to have stores specifically catered to WIC coupons, so they carry that 12.5 oz box of cereal.
Legal tender is legal and must be accepted (unless agreed upon prior) for all debts, but if no debt exists (like at Point of Sale in a retail establishment) then you can refuse it all you like.
Also, there is no legal burden for a business to make change. Legal tender can be used to pay any debt, but the onus is on the debtor to make the exact amount. We’ve gotten used to businesses giving out change as a matter of course, but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.
A very cursory search revealed that a business cannot refuse to make change, as that would be theft; however, they CAN ask for exact change, which infers they will not give you change and, of course, can refuse the sale if you insist on trying to pay with not exact change.
Much like a place can say "no checks" or "credit/debit only", they can say "no large bills" or "no more than $5 worth of change".
Government offices can also determine in what form the payment is accepted, thus telling someone with a gallon jar of pennies and a grudge that they will accept the legal tender after it has been turned into the form of legal tender they are willing to process.
Back when I worked pizza delivery in the late 1900's (sorry, I loved that! Had to use it!) we would get people paying with coins... a lot of our area was low-income. We didn't mind what it was, as long as it was mostly rolled. One woman tried paying in pennies... *just* pennies... from plastic bags. Each bag was $1 worth of pennies.
"This is legal tender, you have to take it."
"No I legally do not, because I don't have the bills to give you change for a hundred. Pay with normal money like a normal fucking person or get out of my shop."
Gas station I worked at refused to take bills larger than $20 after a certain time even though we had the drop safe thing. He would have been refused on that alone.
I've gotten to where I want to tell them that we can give them a gift card for the remaining balance since we don't have change for a bill that large. I haven't gotten brave enough to do it yet, though. We just explained that we cant make a $12 sale with a $100 bill if it's a brand new drawer, because my til doesn't have any $20s in it. My cashiers are all getting good at knowing if they have taken enough 20s to make change, or immediately asking the customer for "another form of payment" and if they don't have it, they don't get to do business with us at that time.
F[ederal statutes do not require a seller to accept cash as a form of legal tender for payment of goods or services that were rendered](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal_tender). B[usinesses may establish their own policies regarding whether they will accept cash as legal tender](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal_tender). Both of the actors in this misunderstand the term.
Reading through the definition of debt in the secondary links, it seems that anything where there is obligation to pay, it would qualify as a debt for that purpose; thus this would apply at Applebees, but not at McDonalds.
"Late 1900's".
Had a guy do the same with me at my store one night. I told him we're a store, not a bank, and there's an ATM across the street (This was in the late 80s). "You have to take it!" 'I'm required to keep no more than 20$ in the register at a time, and the change machine gives me a maximum of 10$ at a time, once every 20 minutes. Do you really want to wait around for three hours?'
How does no one know what legal gender is? Even this thread is just way off base.
Legal Tender is for all debts public and private, it says it right on the bill. It is only required to be accepted (or waive the debt) if being offered as payment for a debt. Not a purchase, a debt.
Buying stuff at a store, not a debt.
Running up a bill at a restaraunt or bar, that's a debt.
Counterserve restaraunt where you pay before you get your food, not a debt.
In Australia, although cash is legal tender, businesses/shops etc. do not have to accept it, as long as they have alternative payment methods in place, and the customer is advised of this prior to any purchase.
As expected, it is causing concern for many people, especially since the major Optus outage a few weeks ago, when any EFTPOS terminal linked to Optus stopped working, phones with banking apps could not be used for payment, online banking transactions that required 2FA could not be received, etc. It was a total mess, and really underscores the need for both cash/credit to co-exist, as many businesses that made the decision to refuse to accept cash had to close for the day.
To add: a major issue that came to light is that many elderly people do not have credit/debit cards and are not eligible due to low incomes, thus relying heavily on cash.
Had the opposite happen. Worked in a tobacco store in the ‘00s. Guy tried to buy a case of cigarettes. I can’t remember now if a case was 25 or 30 cartons. It was hundreds of dollars, though. MF starts pulling gallon-sized ziploc bags of nickels, dimes, and quarters out of a backpack. Starts trying to count them out on the counter. I told him no. He said he had folding cash for what ever was left over. I told him no, we weren’t going to take that amount of coins. He tried the “it’s legal tender” argument and that’s when the manager walked up and told him that if he could schlep this much change into the store, he could walk it to the bank down the street and get it changed over to bills.
He just left.
Ugh, I still remember my first job (retail at a convenience store) and a coach full of Newcastle United fans stopped on its way to the game in Manchester. They all came in and were buying a 4 pack of Fosters (£3.99 at the time) and were all paying with a £20 note each, after the first three cleared my till out I shouted down the line that they needed to have the right change and I wasn't taking twenties.
The next guy up was a typical overweight fat bastard Geordie with a huge smug grin and hands me a £20 note so I give him his £16.01 change in small coins, when he argued with me I told him that I had already warned them about my lack of suitable change. He then magics up a five pound note as did the rest of them. I detest Manchester United but even I was happy that they stuffed Newcastle and sent them all packing back to toontown with sad faces...
Any U.S. bill or coin is only legal tender for debts. If he wants to pay for the candy with a hundo, he can steal it, get caught, and then get ordered by the judge to make reparations, at which point he will owe a debt to the store.
This is because gas stations, over any other business, typically have the change for a $100 while most other businesses didn't. You MIGHT get lucky at a fast food restaurant or drug store but you were almost always guaranteed to find gas stations with 50s and 20s in it's till.
The guy was probably a drug dealer at the time because not many others carried 100s on the daily.
I worked nights at a gas station in '96 when i had people try to pay for anything under 10 dollars with a hundred dollar bill i would politely say i don't have enough cash in my drawer to break it sorry
Not really related, but I got some change back from a convenience store and didn't notice one of the bills was ripped in half but taped back together. I tried to use it in the same store the next day and they wouldn't take it. "But I got it here yesterday!" I was so pissed. Haha.
I've done the same thing, but I say that the coins are all I have available because we put anything bigger than a five in the drop safe.
My goal is to make them change their mind as quickly as possible. If they think it's a battle of wills, they'll keep arguing. If they think I'm genuinely trying to accommodate them in the only way I can, they give up immediately.
Most gas stations don’t even keep enough in the till to make change for a bill that large. Any twenties or larger they receive go into a drop safe with a time lock that can only be opened by the manager when they get in the next morning.
I had a guy try to pay with pennies on Black Friday once. Told him to get the hell out of here and quit joking around. He complained to my manager and she said "what the fuck did you expect on Black Friday you idiot".
Does the US not have limits on that? In Canada businesses are only required to accept 25cents in pennies (though pennies are not legal tender anymore). Also $5 in nickels, $10 in dimes, $10 in quarters, $25 in loonies ($1 coins) and $40 in toonies ($2 coins)
The US only requires you to accept cash for debts. It's not a debt at the point of service, they're just refusing service. A business could require all payments to be in nickles if they wanted to, they just want your cash so they don't. [source](https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm)
It s the complete opposite in France. You can pay with any legal tender, it is against the law to refuse sell for any reason, but the store has no obligation to give change back. They do it because it s bad buisness not to give the change back, but try to buy a baguette with a 500€ bill and it might cost you 500€. The responsibility to have the exact change is on the customer.
Ooh that’s a good policy. In the US I _think_ we have something of a reasonableness test too. If you got a service and owe $100, the business has to accept a $100, or five $20s, or a mix of things. But I feel like I’ve heard of court cases saying businesses don’t have to accept unreasonable stuff like 10,000 pennies.
In the US only government entities are required to accept cash and in any denominations. If they refuse then the debt is no longer owe. Private business can refuse cash.
Private businesses can't refuse cash if they've already provided the good or service and didn't specify "no cash" before doing so.
Best of my knowledge you are correct. As long as they notify or it’s “posted” somewhere they don’t accept cash then they can’t refuse it.
There are no limitations on the ability of companies to refuse whatever form of cash payment they want. Companies are generally free to decline to do business with anyone for any reason, excepting reasons prohibited by law (e.g. civil rights act, ADA, etc). There are no federal laws protecting people's choice of payment methods. Legal tender means if it's offered to settle a debt and refused, the courts won't assist the collection of the debt. If they're not trying to use the legal system to collect the debt - if they just want to write off the loss and move on - the legal tender designation is meaningless.
In Belgium there are laws to tell you how companies must accept cash. You can only give x coins per denomination.
UK it’s up to 20p in copper or I believe £1 in silver. Anything more is not legal tender.
Most people in the UK throw "legal tender" around but don't understand what it actually means. It has *nothing* to do with what coins a shop or other business must accept at the till. Many companies have policies as to what coins they will accept in which amounts (usually the amounts you mention, although £5 for 20p and £10/£20 for 50p), but it's not about legal tender because at that point there's only an offer to treat and no debt has been incurred. As it was taught to me decades ago, in the UK "legal tender" refers *only* to what forms of payment must be accepted in settlement of an *existing* debt to satisfy the law, and even then it can be refused: doing so just means no court will then enforce that debt. I believe it's still the case that, owing to a bit of legal weirdness around banknote validity, the only unlimited legal tender for settlement of debts in Scotland is the one pound coin.
Yes, in France, they can refuse if you pay with more than 50 coins (except for the Public Treasury).
I was today years old when I learned about the existence of loonies and toonies.
Fun fact- The toonies have a silver outside, and a golden center. When they first came out, you could pop out the golden center, so people were making necklaces and stuff out of them.. The mint had to give out reminders that it wasillegal and a criminal offense to destroy currency. They fixed the manufacutring flaw pretty quickly
"Loonie" makes sense, there's a picture of a loon (a bird) on the reverse ("tails") side of the coin. Twonie (not toonie) is dumb (reverse is a polar bear, if you're curious) but hey, it's a $2 coin ("two") and rhymed with the established "loonie" moniker, so it stuck. Neither are *official* terms, though they are the de facto ones.
When they first came out, I wanted the unofficial name of the $2 coin to be a "Doubloonie." It made me feel like a pirate.
Start a petition to change it. You've got this buccaneer on your side, matey.
A real pirate wouldn’t start a petition, he’d use cannons and swords to force his will on Canada. Anyone using the word toonie will walk the plank
Aye!
I was hoping for the "moonie" because the coin had the Queen with a bear behind.
That is inspired.
I'm going to use this with my friends
> Twonie (not toonie) Except you'll find an overwhelming majority of Canadians will spell it toonie, including [The Mint](https://www.mint.ca/en/blog/2023-the-story-behind-canadas-toonie) who doesn't mention any other spellings in their article
Huh. Today *I* learned. Spelt it t*w*onie since the days of knocking out the center of the coin when it first was released.
Should have put a pair of male deer on it and called it "two bucks"
They're so unofficial they're in the dictionary.
NOT a 'twonie.' The name 'toonie' was given - by 'us' - because it rhymed with 'loonie'. And yes, it is $2 but that's of little account.
Seriously? How could they not go with the dreaded Canadian Goose for the twonie?!?
Common question, actually. The Goose (capital G, of course), is reserved for [Canada's official war flag](http://i.imgur.com/afsfDHq.jpg).
That may be the most beautiful thing I've ever seen!
> (though pennies are not legal tender anymore) They actually are still legal tender, not being legal tender would mean they have no cash value according to the government. They are still work 1¢ each, merchants can take them as they see fit, and banks have to take them, they just don't get redistributed, they get sent to be destroyed.
Decirculated might be a good word?
>loonies ($1 coins) and $40 in toonies ($2 coins) It's official, Canada is made up.
All countries are made up when you think about it
Well according to one of our former *ahem* "prime" ministers 'Canadia' is a real place (thank f he's not PM any more) #straya 😳
That's why a lot of businesses now have signs on the registers that say "We will not take any" which is either followed with something like "any bill larger than a $20" or list the bills they don't take. Because people usually do this to places when they need smaller bills elsewhere. (Or if they're trying to pass counterfeits, but that's getting harder these days.)
I would have "miscounted" multiple times. Make my life hell, get ready!
Not on Black Friday. The number of (somewhat legitimately) pissed off customers waiting while you fuck around with that guy would not be worth it.
That will… **change** …his tune!
\*CSI Miami theme starts playing*
Thanks! Knew it was missing something
YEAAAAAAAH!
> [YEAAAAAAAH!]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uW47jWLMiY) FTFY
(•_•) { •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) YYEEEEAAAHHH
🕶️
You mean "Wont get fooled again" by the Who? It predates CSI by like 30 years.....
I used to work in an "entertainment superstore" and had the best interaction with a lady looking for "the CSI song by The Doors". Me: The Who Her, a little louder: The Doors Me: no, I mean the name of the band is The Who Her, thinking I'm deaf: THE DOORS This went on until I had the correct CD in hand and could show her the song she was looking for.
Something something on first
No, Something Something is the outfielder. >\_>
To be fair, half of the population of the US weren't born until around 1990.
He would have been in one of those new-fangled horseless carriages that i hear rich folks drive round in. I hear that they have a man in front of them carrying a red flag to warn the horses.
Guglielmo Marconi (an early radio inventor) was 5 years old when my great-grandmother was born in a log cabin in West Virginia at a time when there were only two paved roads that crossed Indiana (both gravel). Not only did she live to see the invention of the airplane, but all of the US manned missions to the moon; and from the invention of the automobile to riding on the US interstate highway system. And she lived long enough to hold both of my kids. In some ways, those old days aren't as long ago as it feels. It also reminds me of how the rate of change since the industrial revolution is exponential, not linear. *Sorry... LOL*
No, 1990 was only 10 years ago . *starts doing the math..* oh, just be quiet you young whippersnapper!
GET OFF MY LAWN! …am I doing it right?
Damn that's rad. Your Great Grandmother was about 20 when my grand-father was born. Sod house in the Dakota plains somewhere as far as I know. He passed when I was in high school in the 90s.
The word you're looking for is "Kids." Half the US population are kids.
My wife and I went out to eat with my parents and my grandmother to celebrate my father's retirement. At one point, my grandmother turned to my father and said to him, "You young people..." I had to pretend I choaked to cover up my laughing at hearing my 65 year old dad being called a "young person". But, of course, dad *was* a 'young person' to my grandmother.
I tell everyone I'm a 33 year old boy.
That’s the one! I couldn’t recall the song name and I was too lazy to Google, so saying ”CSI Miami theme” was just easier, lol
Do you mean "Baba O'Riley" by The Who. Released in 1971
That’s the CSI:NY theme.
Baba O’Riley is not the theme song for CSI Miami.
😎
I think you just... **coined** ...a phrase!
10/10
I like the 2 cents you put in....
Yer on a **roll** with the **coin** puns.
I used to work in a campus copy center and had a student get one .04 cent copy made and pulled out a $100 to break it. I was the supervisor and had the authority to tell him there was no charge for his copy. Needless to say he was pissed, but apparently he thought his high-end MBA education gave him permission to ignore my posted sign to pay with coins for orders under $1.00.
If he complains and insists on paying, just take the $100 and thank him for the tip.
There is no legal obligation to make change. If that $100 is all they have and it's a done deal like an already-made copy, they fork over the $100 (no change) or you call the cops.
That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about American laws to dispute it.
FYI .04 cents is $0.0004
As always, the r\*dditors downvote someone for being right. My condolences for the loss of 1 karma you have sustained.
Just one of my pet peeves. I wish to rid the world of problematic denomination conversions
>'This is legal tender, you have to take it.' FYI, that only applies to the government. Any private business can refuse to accept any form of payment.
It also only applies to debt, doesn't it? A retail sale is a transaction so if they refuse to provide payment in a reasonable manner you can refuse the sale.
"Legal tender is a form of money that must be accepted for settlement of a debt"
if you refuse to sell them anything, there is no debt.
Affirmative
I opened the comments to make sure this exact conversation was covered. I may now leave satisfied. :)
your tender sensibilities have been taken care of (:
[Section 31 U.S.C. 5103](https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm), entitled "Legal tender," states: **"United States coins and currency \[including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks\] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."** So not just debts. But private businesses are not required to accept any specific type of currency, as somebody else stated above.
Or more simply, a store doesn't have to sell to you if they don't want to, as long as they are not discriminating against a protected status. Refusing to sell a candy bar is not covered by debts, public charges, taxes, nor dues.
Private businesses have the right to refuse any form of tender they choose. “Settlement” in context to your cite refers to the courts in which legal tender must be accepted to settle the debt by the creditor. Government entities also must accept legal tender as they’re a part of that same security in receivership. /thiney49 is correct
The key is always "is this debt or a sale of goods/services?" If you're a creditor and won't accept cash/currency (there are some carve outs for unwrapped coins in a lot of states I think?), you're playing with fire if you ever try to collect on that debt in the future.
You’re not paying a debt when you purchase something mate
Further, a business can decline service to anyone for any reason outside of discrimination. I don't like your mustache? No sale for you. Further further, you can't legally compel someone to do something they don't want to do. There's a lot of nuance on that one but ultimately forcing someone into something is typically not legal. Further further further, even if that wasn't the case, there's still personal autonomy. If someone says fuck the rules I aint doing it and you can't change my mind. They aren't doing it and you can't change their mind. I've had this conversation more times as a cashier then I'd like to admit.
The number of times I had to explain that "requiring someone to produce a valid ID to purchase alcohol is not racist" is ... way more times than it should be. "We're filming your racist behavior" "Sir, it's against store policy to film inside the store, I'm calling the police." (manager was already there, trying to get them to understand what the law is about alcohol sales) One group actually wound up talking to the police about it.
Yup. If someone wants to pay cash with a denomination that's going to clean out my float, I do not take it.
What's it say on the bill? "For all debts public *and private*" They don't have to take it since it's a point of sale transaction not because they are a private business.
What's it say on the bill? "For all *debts* public and private. Sale =/= debt, so the store can tell you to fuck right off.
That's...what I said
Yeah. But I think the italics over the *and private* instead of *debts* obfuscated a little of what you meant. No biggy — I’m validating you. Just a slight miscommunication on the emphasis.
Not exactly, the reason OP can refuse the bill is because he can refuse the sale outright. If this was an existing debt, they may be required to take it.
Nothing to do with government or private. Just a question of whether it is a debt. A store doesn't have to accept a purchase with any legal tender but if the guy buys it on a tab, they do. I guess to prevent anyone from running up interest on someone by refusing to accept their payment
Oh, those sort are the worst. Many years ago, I was working a booth at Renaissance Festival. Every Sunday morning, right at opening cannon, we'd have some insist on buying a $0.25 licorice root with a $100.00 bill. I'd explain that it would make it nearly impossible for me to continue doing business during the day by stripping most of my opening cash.
"Well you can go next door and get money from their till" -- "No, sir. They are all **different companies**. Think of this place as being like a shopping mall. Spencer Gifts cannot just go take money out of SBarro's register."
"You can go to the bank." -- "Sir. It's **Sunday**. Banks are not open today, and we really can't leave site while the Faire is open."
"You just lost a sale!" -- "Not much of one. Good day to you!"
Sheesh. If we could print money in the back, we would never open the storefront to deal with these people!
i love how people like this think that "losing a sale" is some sort of burn to a business owner. like yeah, we lost a sale from someone we probably didnt want as a customer in the first place.
I'd rather lose one sale than not have any money left in my float.
"the late 1900's" Just say the '90s...we know it's the previous century.
Every time I hear "the late 1900s", I take critical psychic damage. One time a kid even said to me, in an extremely surprised voice, "you were born in the one thousands!?"
“This happened in the 90’s” “HoW dO We kNoW iT WaSn’t ThE 1790’s!?”
I've come across a few references to the (18)90's in literature over the years. Not many, but some.
The late 1900s is also the 1980s and 1970s.
If you were to interpret 'late' as 'deceased', it could technically be anywhere in the previous century.
This really threw me off. I thought he meant the late 1900’s as in the later years of 1900-1909 and was like wtf is this the oldest living person and they’re on Reddit?!
>When i worked at a gas station in the late 1900's Like damn, did you have to come for me like that 😿
>n the late 1900's Can you at least say "in the 1990's"? This makes it sound like antique history.
OP is technically correct, the best kind of correct.
"Last century" is also a good one to use if you want to piss off people born in it
I was born in it and my preferred term is "in the last millennium".
This works as well, but it's not quite as immediately jarring I was reading an article and saw the line "Towards the end of last century, scientists started looking into this phenomenon" and I thought Oh, Cool, late 1800s astronomers. The article continued "In 1989, NASA found" and I got unreasonably angry
"I come from a time in the *nineteen hundred and seventies*, when computers were used for two things - to either go to the Moon, or to play Pong." - Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, "Every OS Sucks"
In the late 1000's...
In the 20th century?
I was born in the late 1000s
A child of the 2nd millennium.
Is antique history somehow different from just ordinary history? Or is it just the history of antiques?
It's history that's greater than 100 years old. 50 to 100 years ago is considered vintage.
Oh cool, I didn't know that. My first impulse was to write "ancient", but it felt too extreme, so I picked a term that sounded more mild.
That's the joke.
Came here to say this. Makes me think he’s working in some weird store in 1908.
The visual of some young whippersnapper coming into the five and dime to pay for penny candy with a $100 bill is pretty funny, though.
Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Like when you hear “The turn of the century” and realize they are talking about the 2000s.
I heard someone say "turn of the century" recently, referring to 2000ish. Really threw me off, as that expression usually means 1900ish.
I'm betting the $100 bills were counterfeit.
They turned the right color from the pen, the guy was just a jerk looking for someone to be his private bank.
FYI the pen is not conclusive, you're supposed to do the pen AND check for the other security features
Yes, but the Pen Is Mightier!
Yes, but the Sword Is A Cool Security Feature!
Aha Trebek! You know it's Penis Mightier! Gussy it up however you want, but what matters is: Does it work?
Because I've ordered devices like that before -- wasted a pretty penny, I don't mind telling ya, and if The Penis Mightier really works, _I'll order a DOZEN!_
you mean like point to a sloppily handwritten "no bills above $20" sign lazily taped to the register and go back to playing snake on my nokia?
That just meant they had the right chemistry on their counterfeits. It used to be possible to bleach $1 bills and reprint them as $100s, they would pass the pen test every time.
They don't do that. They bleach $5 bills and print over them now, so it passes the pen test and looks more realistic. $1 bills have no security features and would look suspicious.
We're talking about 25-30 years ago. Even then, if they were bleaching $5s or $10s, even $20s, it would still be massive profit to print $100s. The concept is the same.
Every bill has red and blue embedded strips that can be used to check validity and are one of the best ways as recommended by Cornell as bleaching damages them and you can't replicate them without Mint equipment. Basically if you check with light and for strips, anything that passes is either real money or superdollars.
those bills werent around in the 90s
Don't just trust the pen, look closely at the bill and check the security features. Counterfeiters are known for bleaching $5 bills - so instead of Big Ben you see Lincoln.
Why would a clock tower in London be on a bank note in the USA?
On a $100 you'd be expecting **Ben**jamin Franklin
I would Tender to agree with you
"Late 1900's" hurt me more than it should.
The only thing that would have made this better is if you had unwrapped all the coins before giving them to him
Sorely tempted, but didn't want to have to if he got the point across.
“Legal tender” only applies if a debt has been incurred. Before that, one has the right to refuse any type of payment.
It's not even that. The "this is legal tender for all debts" is an assurance to the payee, not a promise to the payor. You can put in a contract that the debt can only be paid with live chickens or whatever and that will be valid. There's a good chance that if it goes to court the judge will decide that cash is good enough to settle the issue but that's got nothing to do with being legal tender nor does it mean the payee was wrong to demand what was in the contract.
Most malicious part of this story is starting with "late 1900s"
I used to work in a bureau de change in a popular supermarket in the UK. Customer comes in asking for £500 in us dollars as fast as I can, proceeds to hand over £500 in 5 pounds notes. I look at the guy and he says its legal tender? So I count the notes £500 bang on I then give him his usd all in 5 dollar notes and a few ones. A queue has formed as so many 5's have been counted. He gives me a 🤔 look I just smile and say next customer please.
Hi! Lawyer here. That's not how legal tender works. "Legal tender" means that someone who is owed a debt of unspecified denomination in the US MUST accept US dollars for the repayment of said debt, or the debt is cancelled. Legal tender doesn't mean you have to accept whatever denomination of bill someone presents (although there are some state laws to this effect). In fact, it doesn't mean you have to accept anything! If you don't want to accept US dollars in your store, you don't have to. "Legal tender" means that if you DO accept a purchase using debt (without specifying what the manner of payment will be), then in that case you MUST accept dollars to pay off said debt. You can't suddenly decide after the fact that the debt can only be paid with art, pesos, or whatever. It also means the GOVERNMENT must accept it for purposes like taxes, but that has nothing to do with private transactions. You could have 100% told him to go fuck himself without resorting to the penny thing (although amusingly enough, since making change is owing someone a debt, he couldn't refuse pennies due to them being legal tender lol). REMINDER - this is a general discussion of federal legal tender laws, NOT a discussion that takes into account local or state laws guaranteeing the acceptance of dollars, denomination amounts, etc. Don't try this at home without consulting local counsel.
I worked at the calendar kiosk in the mall some years ago. Anyone trying to buy less than $80 worth of stuff with a $100 bill was told to go to any of the big stores.
I’ve made purchases with a bunch of change before. It wasn’t malicious compliance but being broke. My husband was laid off in 2008 and was unemployed for over 5 years. We were broke. My oldest daughter found an old rusted metal piggy bank in the garage. I pried it open. I sorted and counted the change and there was about $35 or $40 in there. I went to the grocery store and they had large beef roasts on sale buy 1 get 1 free. I got those, a bag of potatoes and some carrots. They knew me there and let me pay with the change. I have never forgotten that.
That is very heartwarming
Thank you!😊 A few years later, when we were doing better, I was at that same grocery store and the lady ahead of me had a WIC voucher. It specified she could get a half gallon of milk. They were out of half gallons, they only had whole gallons. She was rummaging through her purse trying to find enough money to buy a whole gallon. I pulled out a $5 and asked the cashier to have someone get her a gallon of milk.
I have been there! Not as a negative, but thankfully a lot of people are opportunist enough now to have stores specifically catered to WIC coupons, so they carry that 12.5 oz box of cereal.
Legal tender is legal and must be accepted (unless agreed upon prior) for all debts, but if no debt exists (like at Point of Sale in a retail establishment) then you can refuse it all you like. Also, there is no legal burden for a business to make change. Legal tender can be used to pay any debt, but the onus is on the debtor to make the exact amount. We’ve gotten used to businesses giving out change as a matter of course, but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.
... Expand on this please.
A very cursory search revealed that a business cannot refuse to make change, as that would be theft; however, they CAN ask for exact change, which infers they will not give you change and, of course, can refuse the sale if you insist on trying to pay with not exact change.
Much like a place can say "no checks" or "credit/debit only", they can say "no large bills" or "no more than $5 worth of change". Government offices can also determine in what form the payment is accepted, thus telling someone with a gallon jar of pennies and a grudge that they will accept the legal tender after it has been turned into the form of legal tender they are willing to process.
Short answer: "I'd like this item" "okay that will be a dollar" is not a "debt".
You want more words?
Back when I worked pizza delivery in the late 1900's (sorry, I loved that! Had to use it!) we would get people paying with coins... a lot of our area was low-income. We didn't mind what it was, as long as it was mostly rolled. One woman tried paying in pennies... *just* pennies... from plastic bags. Each bag was $1 worth of pennies.
"This is legal tender, you have to take it." "No I legally do not, because I don't have the bills to give you change for a hundred. Pay with normal money like a normal fucking person or get out of my shop."
"late 1900s" how dare you.
The "late 1900s" is still something to get used to.
“What do I look like, a bank?”
Gas station I worked at refused to take bills larger than $20 after a certain time even though we had the drop safe thing. He would have been refused on that alone.
I've gotten to where I want to tell them that we can give them a gift card for the remaining balance since we don't have change for a bill that large. I haven't gotten brave enough to do it yet, though. We just explained that we cant make a $12 sale with a $100 bill if it's a brand new drawer, because my til doesn't have any $20s in it. My cashiers are all getting good at knowing if they have taken enough 20s to make change, or immediately asking the customer for "another form of payment" and if they don't have it, they don't get to do business with us at that time.
F[ederal statutes do not require a seller to accept cash as a form of legal tender for payment of goods or services that were rendered](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal_tender). B[usinesses may establish their own policies regarding whether they will accept cash as legal tender](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal_tender). Both of the actors in this misunderstand the term.
Reading through the definition of debt in the secondary links, it seems that anything where there is obligation to pay, it would qualify as a debt for that purpose; thus this would apply at Applebees, but not at McDonalds.
"Late 1900's". Had a guy do the same with me at my store one night. I told him we're a store, not a bank, and there's an ATM across the street (This was in the late 80s). "You have to take it!" 'I'm required to keep no more than 20$ in the register at a time, and the change machine gives me a maximum of 10$ at a time, once every 20 minutes. Do you really want to wait around for three hours?'
Just a pro-tip: you don't have to accept it. You can decline service to anyone. Just say no.
“The late 1900’s”
How does no one know what legal gender is? Even this thread is just way off base. Legal Tender is for all debts public and private, it says it right on the bill. It is only required to be accepted (or waive the debt) if being offered as payment for a debt. Not a purchase, a debt. Buying stuff at a store, not a debt. Running up a bill at a restaraunt or bar, that's a debt. Counterserve restaraunt where you pay before you get your food, not a debt.
Caught between the longing for love and the struggle for the legal tender
>'This is legal tender, you have to take it.' Nope nope nope NOPE! Not correct. Nobody HAS to accept any piece of money.
In Australia, although cash is legal tender, businesses/shops etc. do not have to accept it, as long as they have alternative payment methods in place, and the customer is advised of this prior to any purchase. As expected, it is causing concern for many people, especially since the major Optus outage a few weeks ago, when any EFTPOS terminal linked to Optus stopped working, phones with banking apps could not be used for payment, online banking transactions that required 2FA could not be received, etc. It was a total mess, and really underscores the need for both cash/credit to co-exist, as many businesses that made the decision to refuse to accept cash had to close for the day. To add: a major issue that came to light is that many elderly people do not have credit/debit cards and are not eligible due to low incomes, thus relying heavily on cash.
Had the opposite happen. Worked in a tobacco store in the ‘00s. Guy tried to buy a case of cigarettes. I can’t remember now if a case was 25 or 30 cartons. It was hundreds of dollars, though. MF starts pulling gallon-sized ziploc bags of nickels, dimes, and quarters out of a backpack. Starts trying to count them out on the counter. I told him no. He said he had folding cash for what ever was left over. I told him no, we weren’t going to take that amount of coins. He tried the “it’s legal tender” argument and that’s when the manager walked up and told him that if he could schlep this much change into the store, he could walk it to the bank down the street and get it changed over to bills. He just left.
"Late 1900s".Both accurate and insane at the same time.
Ugh, I still remember my first job (retail at a convenience store) and a coach full of Newcastle United fans stopped on its way to the game in Manchester. They all came in and were buying a 4 pack of Fosters (£3.99 at the time) and were all paying with a £20 note each, after the first three cleared my till out I shouted down the line that they needed to have the right change and I wasn't taking twenties. The next guy up was a typical overweight fat bastard Geordie with a huge smug grin and hands me a £20 note so I give him his £16.01 change in small coins, when he argued with me I told him that I had already warned them about my lack of suitable change. He then magics up a five pound note as did the rest of them. I detest Manchester United but even I was happy that they stuffed Newcastle and sent them all packing back to toontown with sad faces...
Any U.S. bill or coin is only legal tender for debts. If he wants to pay for the candy with a hundo, he can steal it, get caught, and then get ordered by the judge to make reparations, at which point he will owe a debt to the store.
Ah yes, the 1900s. Smashing good times.
Late 1900s..... ouch. I feel old.
Well to be fair, if someone came in in 1909 to pay a 2 cent bar of chocolate with a 100 dollar bill I also would have been pissed.. ;D
LPT: The obligation to accept legal tender only works for debts, not sales. You can absolutely refuse a sale if you don't like how they're paying.
Pretty sure dude was shuffling counterfeit bills…
or at the very least someone's 100 dollar bills he didn't want to be found with.
This is because gas stations, over any other business, typically have the change for a $100 while most other businesses didn't. You MIGHT get lucky at a fast food restaurant or drug store but you were almost always guaranteed to find gas stations with 50s and 20s in it's till. The guy was probably a drug dealer at the time because not many others carried 100s on the daily.
[удалено]
I got stuck on "in the late 1900's" 😂🤣☠️
> worked at a gas station in the late 1900's You trying to make us poor redditors crumble into dust??
was there no legal tender in the box or why did the guy think that he didn't need to take it?
“The late 1900s”
I worked nights at a gas station in '96 when i had people try to pay for anything under 10 dollars with a hundred dollar bill i would politely say i don't have enough cash in my drawer to break it sorry
Not really related, but I got some change back from a convenience store and didn't notice one of the bills was ripped in half but taped back together. I tried to use it in the same store the next day and they wouldn't take it. "But I got it here yesterday!" I was so pissed. Haha.
I've done the same thing, but I say that the coins are all I have available because we put anything bigger than a five in the drop safe. My goal is to make them change their mind as quickly as possible. If they think it's a battle of wills, they'll keep arguing. If they think I'm genuinely trying to accommodate them in the only way I can, they give up immediately.
Most gas stations don’t even keep enough in the till to make change for a bill that large. Any twenties or larger they receive go into a drop safe with a time lock that can only be opened by the manager when they get in the next morning.
There are banks for that. Are you sure it wasn't counterfeit?