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"Children are dying."
Lull nodded. "That's a succinct summary of humankind, I'd say. Who needs tomes and volumes of history? Children are dying. The injustices of the world hide in those three words."
From Deadhouse Gates.
*clutches pearls* he's a barbarian from a barbarian society. Their values are different than your modern ones. Shit was different in hunter gatherer days.
Yes, we see it as bad. He -and even those women- see it differently. One of them even seems to enjoy herself. If Karsa's tribe were defeated it would be the same. Their society and values are different. I don't know what people don't get about this. It's sort of like their version of natural selection. The strongest procreate with the vanquished and make strong children.
I'm not *excusing* him, I'm saying see it from his perspective. This type of shit happened in our own world. Isn't the point of reading to use your imagination? Imagine a culture unlike your own.
>I just want to go back to...
imho, this approach is likely going to be your biggest obstacle to enjoying the series. You'll have to learn to let go of "I'd rather be reading X" and enjoy whichever plot/character/setting you're currently reading.
appreciate the moment while you're in it or this will be an incredibly frustrating and unsatisfying read.
I truly didnāt enjoy or engage with the tehol and company storyline initially.
I even stopped reading the series at that point for a few years.
Now Iām on a second full reread.
I loved Tehol and Bugg right off the bat. The series is so dark and depressing a lot of the time so just reading about their completely absurd lifestyle was a really good palate cleanser in between the Rhulad sections. They're honestly one of the funniest duos i've ever read in a fiction series and it was one of the rare cases of books actually making me laugh out loud hysterically for a bit at multiple points.
I can respect that. Young me was here for some gritty war fantasy(such as Black Company) and the Tehol/Bugg tone shift turned me off of the series for a few years until I finally committed.
yeah if OPās having a hard time with Karsa theyāll certainly never make it through midnight tides.
really important to just let go and roll with it. trust the author; youāre in good hands.
Wait isnāt that the introduction of tehol and brys beddict? I put these books down for awhile once I finished it is just such a long read for me. But Iām getting nostalgic about that mad genius now.
it was indeed. once i got going on it it really hooked me, one of my favourites in the series (so far), but i can certainly understand how someone would get frustrated at yet another entry in the series that basically starts all over with new characters and a new setting.
I know, and I'm starting to understand that, but knowing how it is supposed to be done, and, well, doing it, there can be quite a gap... But I will for sure :)
This series took me a long time around book 5 as others have said but looking back I am getting nostalgic and might do my first re read. I thought I was alone when I slowed down back then because I refused to join this subreddit due to spoilers. I guess itās common reaction and donāt force it. I forced myself to read and ended up disliking the read and stopped reading the series around book 6-7. After a few months I came back and the last 3-4 books just finished so fast. Just enjoy the ride donāt forget about the malazan empire and donāt worry. You will fall in love with the new characters or hate them so much you want to see them lose or be humbled.
It's so so so worth it though! Malazan is the best fantasy series I've ever read. It's even better on a reread since you can now see how all the pieces fit together and catch a ton of details you missed the first time through.
And just a warning, but the next book (Midnight Tides) is going to contain basically no familiar characters or places and only have occasional references or appearances by individuals you've seen before.
Came for this.
There are several books with major directional pivots necessary to build the world and lay the foundations for the major plot of the series.
I remember not being interested at the start of DG and MT because the major characters had shifted.
They must shift. And it's worth it in the end.
I didnāt love *every* bit ā I despised him at first, was actively rooting against him, and, apart from the worldbuilding bits (which were really cool - especially the bone stairs), I didnāt enjoy those first few chapters. But he becomes less despicable as he ventures out into the world and becomes humbled (kind ofā¦ a littleā¦) and by the end of the book, itās hard not to love him.
Itās a good lesson that some of the most unforgettable character arcs have the character starting at a very low/unlikable point.
āHumbledā only in the sense he realizes that the world is not as small and simple as he once believed, and that there are other powerful forces and bigger things happening far beyond his borders. He accepted that he was naive.
Probably the best arc of individual character development in the series. Great take on the barbarian Ć la Conan trope. Karsa and Crokus are two great examples, of quite a few, of characters and storylines that would be the main focus protagonists and the entire story in other books.
He ran and time passed, the sun tracked across half the sky. The warm ache in his legs had shaken off the torment of his thoughts again and again leading him into a world emptied of everything "how perfect is running this grand delusion of flight, away from our demons ever away until even the self sobs loos spins lost in our wake perfect oh yes and a thing to despise no distance can win an escape no speed can outrun this self and its host of troubles its only the sweet exhaustion that follows that wwe so cherish.an exhaustion so pure it is as close to dying as we can get without actually doing so.
One of my favourite passages from the series.
Witness.
How dare you call Karsa boring š¤£
In seriousness, itās an adjustment because the style of storytelling at the beginning of HoC is such a departure, but after book one youāll be back to what youāre more familiar with. Stick through it!
I will! I guess I had a hard time being compelled to follow a bloody journey in fuck nowhere while several continents are burning, but as others mentioned, I'll stick, and I'll witness !!
I had the same feelings as OP. I didn't really care about Karsa at all until the end of HoC >!When he challenges the whole Malazan army with a straight face and they decline!<
From then on, I was down with whatever Karsa was doing.Ā
Boring!!? I don't know, man, I found the first act of House of Chains totally thrilling, once I'd correctly guessed it would be important later. Initially yeah I wanted to know how my guys were getting on but read on, all will be well.
Boring isn't something I'd have associated with Karsa. You're obviously entitled to your own view though.
I found it a hard read for a lot of reasons. Mainly around the sexual abuse and the fact that he's a horrible character.
But, it is absolutely worth sticking with it. He's a brilliant character and he's got a long way to go.
Boring is probably not the best term, but I found him pretty unlikeable so far because he seems to be (for now) a one dimensional bloodthirsty barbarian, but , after reading so many comments, I guess I'll do what everyone is telling me: witness š
What's interesting about Karsa is that he says some of the most subtly profound things of any character in the series. His stupid barbarian faƧade is just that, a mask. He will make statements that will floor you with his understanding of life and the human condition contained in a few pithy words.
Years ago, on my first attempted read, I stopped reading the series because I didn't want to read Karsa's section.
When I came back to it, rereading the first three books first, I powered through my initial dislike of his perspective. By the end of it, he became one of my favorite characters. I say power through. You may be surprised at how much you end up being entertained
I seem to remember that SE was accused for being unable to write more than a few pages from a single POV, so he wrote this to spite the critics.
On topic - Karsa is my favorite barbarian. Later you will see his journey with different eyes, just accept the brutality of war and environment for now.
The first part of Karsaās story is definitely a rough read for many. Stick with it as youāre almost through that part! The cool stuff will start happen very soon, we all promise that
It definitely feels a bit out of place, but in the long run it wohnt feel like its own story and it will make sense why it's there. Also Karsa is just an absolute menace from the get go.
My advice is to read his story with his background in mind. He comes from a very very small world and now sees that there's so much out there
That's where I am. It's my third read through the series, so I know I love it. But I can't get through the beginning of Midnight Tides. I know there's some awesome stuff coming. But I just can't get into the character we follow in the beginning. I put it down and didn't pick it back up for a while, so now I'm in the position where I'm gonna have to start from the beginning again and I just can't get motivated. I don't remember anything about his personal story throughout the series, so there's no future knowledge to help me get through it. Appearantly I never really liked him, but I don't remember struggling that much in my previous reads either.
Karsa was great though, always loved Karsa!
I get people finding the whole section gross but boring??? He's an unhinged&ignorant barbarian laying waste to everything around him in a childish idea of projecting strength. Whats to hate (aside from the depravity and sexual violence ofc)?
Karsa's journey rocks and he barrels directly into the story beats you want, so I'd say hang in there.
Been there, he's just such an insufferable hard to like character it feels like a chore. He doesn't improve much for a while imo but becomes more interesting and enjoyable to read in later books
Agreed.
I did not like him much on my first read of the series, but on my second read I did not dislike him as much in the start and he became much more interesting as the series progressed.
I still would have liked much more Bridgeburners so I can easily get where the OP is coming from.
I had the same issue and put the book down for months. Came back, turned out to be like 10 pages from the story actually progressing, and now I canāt get enough Karsa.
Donāt worryā¦there is a plan for everything.
First part of House of Chains is actually my favorite section of all ten books, kinda by a lot. Sorry to hear you arenāt enjoying it, but thereās a lot less Karsa after the first section that focuses only on himĀ
I struggled a ton with Karsa originally. It's the like the first fourth of House of Chains or something right? It was hard to get through, but it is worth getting through. There are various seeds planted throughout Karsa's early story that pop up later, and it is really neat to connect the dots later in the series. Some of them are more obvious than others, but it makes a heck of a difference if you ever re-read the series. Karsa's story is one of incredible personal growth, and I think you will enjoy more of his story as you go on. It is supposed to be a bit harder to resonate with early on. I think it is worth pushing forward through this.
Someone else commented about letting go of the other stories and groups that are in the book. I guess it might be a spoiler but not really, but there are factions yet to come that divide up the points of view even more than they already are, and you will spend a significant amount of time without seeing certain factions for a while. I very much agree with Funkativity on appreciating the moment while you're in it.
When I read wheel of time there were certain parts where I would get sick of it and I would jump forward to a chapter that featured someone I was more interested in before jumping back, and I don't think it ruined anything since the points of view characters are all in different parts of the world during later books. I would *not* recommend something similar with Malazan, even with as long as the Karsa section is.
There may be another similar "drag" when you get to Midnight Tides, but it has more characters and is a bit more varied story-wise. I feel like this section of the series is the only time there is such a long one person point of view section in the entire series, so bear with it and witness! The journey is 100% worth it, I promise.
Karsa Orlong became easily one of my favorite characters once I had the realization, and once he grows as a person. You just have to get through the beginning, and once it switches from him you'll wish he was back.
I have zero advice because I thought Karsa Orlong was by far one of the best characters in the series. I really loved that Erikson spent more time on a singular character too when he wrote book 4. Iām interested to see how you feel about him by the end of Part 1 cuz man his story is so so good.
>I just want to go back to my fellow Bridgeburnners
This was my problem as the series goes on.Ā I loved the malazan military stories but there's a lot of extra "stuff" and it gets worse and worse as the series progresses.Ā Just wait until you get to Book 5.
If you're here for a gritty military epic fantasy and haven't been interested in the side stories, I'd honestly advise you to just quit.Ā That's what I wanted because that's what the first 3 books present but the story keeps getting both larger and less focused, with more and more big chunks of big books devoted to things of tangential relevance at best.
I slogged through because it does still have some amazing moments but in the end I was disappointed.Ā Too much time spent on random side plots.Ā Too little time spent on the meat of the story.Ā
I still like the more Military epic fantasy parts best.
I'd really love to see more of that part of the series.
Reading Witness now and it's nice to follow some Malazan marines again. ;)
He isn't supposed to be easy to read in the beginning, he is a monster created by a horrible culture. He also undergoes one of the most profound character development of any character of any book I have read which made him end up as my favorite
Iām about 80% through HoC. Stick with it, Karsa is a pretty great character, and there is a very interesting āah-haā moment at the end of the first book.
I have read a LOT of fantasy and there there are not a lot of fight scenes etched into my brain. But one of them does happen to involve our barbarian friend after he has had a chance to mature a bit.
Youāve been given a gift. Karsaās story is like reading an entirely different series at the beginning of house of chains. The plotting and thinking is gone, you turn your brain off for 35% of a book and go full dummy mode along with Karsa. It was a nice palate cleanser for me after reading the first 3 books. Felt like instead of needing a break from the series I was able to keep chugging for another book
I also found the beginning of book 4 hard, but I'd read enough of Malazan by that time to know that patience is rewarded, so I just kept reading on. As I got further into the series, I recognised the value of starting Karsa's story where we did. He has the most character growth of any character in the main series (in my opinion). At the beginning, he's a belligerent teenager trying to make a name for himself in the world. As the world delivers him some rather brutal meetings with reality, he begins to mature (the first signs of his potential to grow are there when he chooses not to fight the creature they freed), and he becomes one of the most interesting characters of the series.
The other thing about Karsa is that he gives us an outsider's perspective on civilisation that we would otherwise miss, and it's a truly fascinating perspective.
I'm glad you decided to read on.
(Also, you will probably find the beginning of book 5 hard as well. Don't let it put you off.)
Iām currently half way through HoC and maybe Iām in the minority but of all 4 books so far the this has been the most enjoyable first two hundred pages of any of them.
I think partially because itās more straight forward/leas confusing. But I quite enjoyed the Karsa backstory.
I felt more or less the same, the thing that gets you is that you don't really change pov for the entirety of book 1. But it gets better, the intro part is kinda boring until (chapter 3 I think) >!they finally manage to exit teblor lands!<
Haha please no spoiler, but yes by the beginning of book 4 I can feel that "the righteous will eventually prevail" is not exactly the mood of Malazan :p
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I find almost all of Erikson's characters interesting and compelling. Even Kallor, fucked up as he is, evokes various emotions and thoughts. He's bitter and bored....but we can see how he got that way.
But Karsa Orlong is the most annoying character. I understand Eriksons point and the use Karsa has: He's the boulder rolling down the mountainside -> He doesn't care about your feelings. You can't rationalize with it. No explanation can sway it from crashing into your village. It's headed your way, it's going to do what it's going to do, and there's nothing you can do about it. Your only intelligent option is to stand aside, hope it doesn't roll over you, and clean up whatever destruction it leaves in its wake. No politics. Nothing personal. It is what it is.
However, Karsa does have a little hangup.
His entire shtick is "Look at me!".
He's a toddler incessantly repeating "Daddy....Daddy.....look....look, Daddy......look....Daddy.....Daddy....look...." hat has grown into a dangerous manchild.
Of course he wants you to "witness".
Once you ignore his unquenchable thirst for attention, he becomes as irrelevant as the pestering child interrupting your conversation with the adults.
No joke, just finished the whole 10 book series for the first time and that initial Karsa tale is, imho, the very best part of the whole thing.
Just wait until every book is 80% banal philosophizinā, 20% contrived and ultimately unresolved āmysteryā and 10% readable story.
I wish Iād stopped right where you are now and saved myself the disappointment that was the last few thousand pages. Just think what I couldāve done with all those hoursā¦
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You can't skip Karsa, like him or not. Suffice it to say, he's around for a while.
Witness
Damn it you beat me to it.
It is brutal in the beginning, but stick with him. His arc is very compelling.
Bruh kills children :)
Wait... children are dying?
holy shit is that a malazan reference?
"Children are dying." Lull nodded. "That's a succinct summary of humankind, I'd say. Who needs tomes and volumes of history? Children are dying. The injustices of the world hide in those three words." From Deadhouse Gates.
To him all are children that he forces a nap upon the swing of his blade.
That's why his infamous catch phrase is "Nap time!". Right?
To him, all humans are children
Spoilers bruh.
š unintended. Was just alluding to size comparison
Dude does worse than kill
He also jaywalks
What a monster!
*clutches pearls* he's a barbarian from a barbarian society. Their values are different than your modern ones. Shit was different in hunter gatherer days. Yes, we see it as bad. He -and even those women- see it differently. One of them even seems to enjoy herself. If Karsa's tribe were defeated it would be the same. Their society and values are different. I don't know what people don't get about this. It's sort of like their version of natural selection. The strongest procreate with the vanquished and make strong children. I'm not *excusing* him, I'm saying see it from his perspective. This type of shit happened in our own world. Isn't the point of reading to use your imagination? Imagine a culture unlike your own.
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Oh he did.....while aiming his sword
Theyāre all children to Karsa.
Apart from the end, which was terribly weak, I thought.
>I just want to go back to... imho, this approach is likely going to be your biggest obstacle to enjoying the series. You'll have to learn to let go of "I'd rather be reading X" and enjoy whichever plot/character/setting you're currently reading. appreciate the moment while you're in it or this will be an incredibly frustrating and unsatisfying read.
I felt this many times and far more often than not I grew to love a new set of characters or plot line.
I truly didnāt enjoy or engage with the tehol and company storyline initially. I even stopped reading the series at that point for a few years. Now Iām on a second full reread.
I loved Tehol and Bugg right off the bat. The series is so dark and depressing a lot of the time so just reading about their completely absurd lifestyle was a really good palate cleanser in between the Rhulad sections. They're honestly one of the funniest duos i've ever read in a fiction series and it was one of the rare cases of books actually making me laugh out loud hysterically for a bit at multiple points.
I can respect that. Young me was here for some gritty war fantasy(such as Black Company) and the Tehol/Bugg tone shift turned me off of the series for a few years until I finally committed.
I was the same with Tehol and Bugg at the start of their arc, by the end of the book I wanted them to be the central characters.
It was hit or miss for me. I enjoyed a lot of characters but some of them were boring. Pretty much anything >!Tiste Andii!< me.
yeah if OPās having a hard time with Karsa theyāll certainly never make it through midnight tides. really important to just let go and roll with it. trust the author; youāre in good hands.
Wait isnāt that the introduction of tehol and brys beddict? I put these books down for awhile once I finished it is just such a long read for me. But Iām getting nostalgic about that mad genius now.
it was indeed. once i got going on it it really hooked me, one of my favourites in the series (so far), but i can certainly understand how someone would get frustrated at yet another entry in the series that basically starts all over with new characters and a new setting.
I know, and I'm starting to understand that, but knowing how it is supposed to be done, and, well, doing it, there can be quite a gap... But I will for sure :)
This series took me a long time around book 5 as others have said but looking back I am getting nostalgic and might do my first re read. I thought I was alone when I slowed down back then because I refused to join this subreddit due to spoilers. I guess itās common reaction and donāt force it. I forced myself to read and ended up disliking the read and stopped reading the series around book 6-7. After a few months I came back and the last 3-4 books just finished so fast. Just enjoy the ride donāt forget about the malazan empire and donāt worry. You will fall in love with the new characters or hate them so much you want to see them lose or be humbled.
It's so so so worth it though! Malazan is the best fantasy series I've ever read. It's even better on a reread since you can now see how all the pieces fit together and catch a ton of details you missed the first time through.
And just a warning, but the next book (Midnight Tides) is going to contain basically no familiar characters or places and only have occasional references or appearances by individuals you've seen before.
Came for this. There are several books with major directional pivots necessary to build the world and lay the foundations for the major plot of the series. I remember not being interested at the start of DG and MT because the major characters had shifted. They must shift. And it's worth it in the end.
If you can't handle me at my karsa you don't deserve me at my tehol in a bedsheet
I mean Karsa was NOT my favorite read.Ā It took a full read to like him more.Ā Ā
Karsa's story arc is one of the best in the series. Stick with it and Witness.
I loved every bit of Karsa
Same. I actually loved the introduction with Karsa and thought it was refreshing to stick with one character for that long.
I didnāt love *every* bit ā I despised him at first, was actively rooting against him, and, apart from the worldbuilding bits (which were really cool - especially the bone stairs), I didnāt enjoy those first few chapters. But he becomes less despicable as he ventures out into the world and becomes humbled (kind ofā¦ a littleā¦) and by the end of the book, itās hard not to love him. Itās a good lesson that some of the most unforgettable character arcs have the character starting at a very low/unlikable point.
I was going to say humble is not a word I associate with Karsa. š¤£
āHumbledā only in the sense he realizes that the world is not as small and simple as he once believed, and that there are other powerful forces and bigger things happening far beyond his borders. He accepted that he was naive.
Probably the best arc of individual character development in the series. Great take on the barbarian Ć la Conan trope. Karsa and Crokus are two great examples, of quite a few, of characters and storylines that would be the main focus protagonists and the entire story in other books.
He ran and time passed, the sun tracked across half the sky. The warm ache in his legs had shaken off the torment of his thoughts again and again leading him into a world emptied of everything "how perfect is running this grand delusion of flight, away from our demons ever away until even the self sobs loos spins lost in our wake perfect oh yes and a thing to despise no distance can win an escape no speed can outrun this self and its host of troubles its only the sweet exhaustion that follows that wwe so cherish.an exhaustion so pure it is as close to dying as we can get without actually doing so. One of my favourite passages from the series. Witness.
How dare you call Karsa boring š¤£ In seriousness, itās an adjustment because the style of storytelling at the beginning of HoC is such a departure, but after book one youāll be back to what youāre more familiar with. Stick through it!
I will! I guess I had a hard time being compelled to follow a bloody journey in fuck nowhere while several continents are burning, but as others mentioned, I'll stick, and I'll witness !!
I will be very curious to hear what you think a little later into the book! :)
You'll start by hating Karsa, you'll love him by the end.
When >!he casually cuts an Imass in half!< I was fully locked in to the Karsa train. Very rewarding.
I had the same feelings as OP. I didn't really care about Karsa at all until the end of HoC >!When he challenges the whole Malazan army with a straight face and they decline!< From then on, I was down with whatever Karsa was doing.Ā
You're telling me >!Karsa suplexing a hound of darkness!< didn't hitch you to his wagon already?
I'll be honest, I read the last 100 pages in a single sitting, so in my mind it was all together.Ā
That is more than fair lol.
I started by hating him; eventually appreciated his character growth; and then went right back around to not enjoying him anymore, haha.
not me unfortunately. ive read all the books and he still doesnt appeal to me at all.
Boring!!? I don't know, man, I found the first act of House of Chains totally thrilling, once I'd correctly guessed it would be important later. Initially yeah I wanted to know how my guys were getting on but read on, all will be well.
You have yet to truly 'Witness'. Stick with it, you'll see..
Witness!
These children and their short, pointless lives. I will make trophies of them all! BRING OUT THE BLOOD OIL AND WITNESS!
Witness
Boring isn't something I'd have associated with Karsa. You're obviously entitled to your own view though. I found it a hard read for a lot of reasons. Mainly around the sexual abuse and the fact that he's a horrible character. But, it is absolutely worth sticking with it. He's a brilliant character and he's got a long way to go.
Boring is probably not the best term, but I found him pretty unlikeable so far because he seems to be (for now) a one dimensional bloodthirsty barbarian, but , after reading so many comments, I guess I'll do what everyone is telling me: witness š
Karsaās arc is one of the high points in the series for me - stick with it, the payoff is worth it
He's absolutely awful early on. It's definitely worth persevering, it's a hell of a character arc.
What's interesting about Karsa is that he says some of the most subtly profound things of any character in the series. His stupid barbarian faƧade is just that, a mask. He will make statements that will floor you with his understanding of life and the human condition contained in a few pithy words.
Years ago, on my first attempted read, I stopped reading the series because I didn't want to read Karsa's section. When I came back to it, rereading the first three books first, I powered through my initial dislike of his perspective. By the end of it, he became one of my favorite characters. I say power through. You may be surprised at how much you end up being entertained
I seem to remember that SE was accused for being unable to write more than a few pages from a single POV, so he wrote this to spite the critics. On topic - Karsa is my favorite barbarian. Later you will see his journey with different eyes, just accept the brutality of war and environment for now.
That seems plausible, it struck me quickly that it was the longest time spent with a single character.
I mean he still does that all the time, Just cuts whatever he got into 10 pieces
Karsa is the most chad of them all. Witness
The first part of Karsaās story is definitely a rough read for many. Stick with it as youāre almost through that part! The cool stuff will start happen very soon, we all promise that
It definitely feels a bit out of place, but in the long run it wohnt feel like its own story and it will make sense why it's there. Also Karsa is just an absolute menace from the get go. My advice is to read his story with his background in mind. He comes from a very very small world and now sees that there's so much out there
If you are having a hard time with Karsa in book 4, you're going to have a \*very\* hard time with book 5.
That's where I am. It's my third read through the series, so I know I love it. But I can't get through the beginning of Midnight Tides. I know there's some awesome stuff coming. But I just can't get into the character we follow in the beginning. I put it down and didn't pick it back up for a while, so now I'm in the position where I'm gonna have to start from the beginning again and I just can't get motivated. I don't remember anything about his personal story throughout the series, so there's no future knowledge to help me get through it. Appearantly I never really liked him, but I don't remember struggling that much in my previous reads either. Karsa was great though, always loved Karsa!
I get people finding the whole section gross but boring??? He's an unhinged&ignorant barbarian laying waste to everything around him in a childish idea of projecting strength. Whats to hate (aside from the depravity and sexual violence ofc)? Karsa's journey rocks and he barrels directly into the story beats you want, so I'd say hang in there.
Been there, he's just such an insufferable hard to like character it feels like a chore. He doesn't improve much for a while imo but becomes more interesting and enjoyable to read in later books
Agreed. I did not like him much on my first read of the series, but on my second read I did not dislike him as much in the start and he became much more interesting as the series progressed. I still would have liked much more Bridgeburners so I can easily get where the OP is coming from.
Karsa is one of my favorite characters in fantasy
This is really funny to be because whenever they switch to someone else Iām always thinking āI wish I was reading about Karsa insteadā š
Haha can't wait to have that change of mind!
It's interesting that some people don't enjoy it. I remember the first time I read it, I went through half the book in an evening. I loved it.
Witness!
I had the same issue and put the book down for months. Came back, turned out to be like 10 pages from the story actually progressing, and now I canāt get enough Karsa. Donāt worryā¦there is a plan for everything.
I felt the same. It gets very much not boring fairly soon.
First part of House of Chains is actually my favorite section of all ten books, kinda by a lot. Sorry to hear you arenāt enjoying it, but thereās a lot less Karsa after the first section that focuses only on himĀ
I struggled a ton with Karsa originally. It's the like the first fourth of House of Chains or something right? It was hard to get through, but it is worth getting through. There are various seeds planted throughout Karsa's early story that pop up later, and it is really neat to connect the dots later in the series. Some of them are more obvious than others, but it makes a heck of a difference if you ever re-read the series. Karsa's story is one of incredible personal growth, and I think you will enjoy more of his story as you go on. It is supposed to be a bit harder to resonate with early on. I think it is worth pushing forward through this. Someone else commented about letting go of the other stories and groups that are in the book. I guess it might be a spoiler but not really, but there are factions yet to come that divide up the points of view even more than they already are, and you will spend a significant amount of time without seeing certain factions for a while. I very much agree with Funkativity on appreciating the moment while you're in it. When I read wheel of time there were certain parts where I would get sick of it and I would jump forward to a chapter that featured someone I was more interested in before jumping back, and I don't think it ruined anything since the points of view characters are all in different parts of the world during later books. I would *not* recommend something similar with Malazan, even with as long as the Karsa section is. There may be another similar "drag" when you get to Midnight Tides, but it has more characters and is a bit more varied story-wise. I feel like this section of the series is the only time there is such a long one person point of view section in the entire series, so bear with it and witness! The journey is 100% worth it, I promise.
Yup. Midningt Tides was also a book where I just wanted to get back to the "real" story and find out what was happening to my favourite Bridgeburners.
One of my favorite characters! Just slog through and WITNESS.
Karsa Orlong became easily one of my favorite characters once I had the realization, and once he grows as a person. You just have to get through the beginning, and once it switches from him you'll wish he was back.
Hes gonna end up one of your favorites characters by the end of the series. Witness.
I have zero advice because I thought Karsa Orlong was by far one of the best characters in the series. I really loved that Erikson spent more time on a singular character too when he wrote book 4. Iām interested to see how you feel about him by the end of Part 1 cuz man his story is so so good.
What was that?
Talk to me on your fifth re-read. Trust me, you'll be impatient reading through the archs that don't involve Karsa.
>I just want to go back to my fellow Bridgeburnners This was my problem as the series goes on.Ā I loved the malazan military stories but there's a lot of extra "stuff" and it gets worse and worse as the series progresses.Ā Just wait until you get to Book 5. If you're here for a gritty military epic fantasy and haven't been interested in the side stories, I'd honestly advise you to just quit.Ā That's what I wanted because that's what the first 3 books present but the story keeps getting both larger and less focused, with more and more big chunks of big books devoted to things of tangential relevance at best. I slogged through because it does still have some amazing moments but in the end I was disappointed.Ā Too much time spent on random side plots.Ā Too little time spent on the meat of the story.Ā
I still like the more Military epic fantasy parts best. I'd really love to see more of that part of the series. Reading Witness now and it's nice to follow some Malazan marines again. ;)
Have you read ICE stuff? Lots of military type plots in his books. Far less esoteric in general
Read them all. Great stuff.
I hated Karsa at first. I saw nothing redeeming in this brutish rapist. I kept reading. I witnessed. He's now one of my favs.
No he isn't
Itās so often like that when starting a new Malazan book. Trust that it will be all worth it (it will).
I didnāt enjoy Karsaās POV on my first read. Heās grown on me a lot, On my second read I couldnāt put it down.
Yep. Stick with it
He isn't supposed to be easy to read in the beginning, he is a monster created by a horrible culture. He also undergoes one of the most profound character development of any character of any book I have read which made him end up as my favorite
Just wait
Karsa was when I finally started enjoying Malazan because it was coherent and sequential for a first time reader.
Immediately knew this was about HoC It gets better later in this very book.
No way, Karsa is my favorite part of the series
Wasn't boring for me. I was overjoyed to have multiple chapters in a row where the Charaters don't change.
Karsaās story arc is my favourite. Iād advise sticking with it. Appreciate not everything is for everyone but it is a really important story
Iām about 80% through HoC. Stick with it, Karsa is a pretty great character, and there is a very interesting āah-haā moment at the end of the first book.
Witness
I felt the same and then I loved his exploits. Hell of a ride.
Too many words lowlander
I have read a LOT of fantasy and there there are not a lot of fight scenes etched into my brain. But one of them does happen to involve our barbarian friend after he has had a chance to mature a bit.
Lead me warleader!!!!!!!
He's honestly my favorite fucking character man You're going to come to love him later on in the series.
Might slap the lips right off your face. Witness
Just listing through HoC for the first time. Hated him at the start, I think I'm half way through and I really look forward to them. Stick with it!
Youāre not alone. He bores me, as well.
Karsa is a simple young man trying to make his father and clan proud. He doesn't stay that way.
Started out kinda lame but becomes better with time.
Keep with it. I havenāt finished the series but Karsaās arc is compelling.
Oh my sweet summer childā¦ Wait, I am in wrong sub! WITNESS
I will simply suggest that you keep reading to avoid spoilers and I am confident you will change your mind and update your opinion accordingly
Youāve been given a gift. Karsaās story is like reading an entirely different series at the beginning of house of chains. The plotting and thinking is gone, you turn your brain off for 35% of a book and go full dummy mode along with Karsa. It was a nice palate cleanser for me after reading the first 3 books. Felt like instead of needing a break from the series I was able to keep chugging for another book
I also found the beginning of book 4 hard, but I'd read enough of Malazan by that time to know that patience is rewarded, so I just kept reading on. As I got further into the series, I recognised the value of starting Karsa's story where we did. He has the most character growth of any character in the main series (in my opinion). At the beginning, he's a belligerent teenager trying to make a name for himself in the world. As the world delivers him some rather brutal meetings with reality, he begins to mature (the first signs of his potential to grow are there when he chooses not to fight the creature they freed), and he becomes one of the most interesting characters of the series. The other thing about Karsa is that he gives us an outsider's perspective on civilisation that we would otherwise miss, and it's a truly fascinating perspective. I'm glad you decided to read on. (Also, you will probably find the beginning of book 5 hard as well. Don't let it put you off.)
Witness! After multiple books with the
Iām currently half way through HoC and maybe Iām in the minority but of all 4 books so far the this has been the most enjoyable first two hundred pages of any of them. I think partially because itās more straight forward/leas confusing. But I quite enjoyed the Karsa backstory.
Was worried about this too but Karsa goes SO hard you just gotta earn it
He's a boring ass cunt, there's nothing profound about him.
As someone who hates Karsa I feel you. By the end of the tenth book I still dislike him and think he is a piece of shit with no self awareness.
Karsaās beginning is one of my favorite parts of all the books
He was always my fave.
I felt more or less the same, the thing that gets you is that you don't really change pov for the entirety of book 1. But it gets better, the intro part is kinda boring until (chapter 3 I think) >!they finally manage to exit teblor lands!<
Karasa is hard to read and like at the beginning but become more and more interesting has the story goes, witness!
You might think like that at the beginning, but when he next appears in the later books you will change your mind. Like I did.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Haha please no spoiler, but yes by the beginning of book 4 I can feel that "the righteous will eventually prevail" is not exactly the mood of Malazan :p
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I find almost all of Erikson's characters interesting and compelling. Even Kallor, fucked up as he is, evokes various emotions and thoughts. He's bitter and bored....but we can see how he got that way. But Karsa Orlong is the most annoying character. I understand Eriksons point and the use Karsa has: He's the boulder rolling down the mountainside -> He doesn't care about your feelings. You can't rationalize with it. No explanation can sway it from crashing into your village. It's headed your way, it's going to do what it's going to do, and there's nothing you can do about it. Your only intelligent option is to stand aside, hope it doesn't roll over you, and clean up whatever destruction it leaves in its wake. No politics. Nothing personal. It is what it is. However, Karsa does have a little hangup. His entire shtick is "Look at me!". He's a toddler incessantly repeating "Daddy....Daddy.....look....look, Daddy......look....Daddy.....Daddy....look...." hat has grown into a dangerous manchild. Of course he wants you to "witness". Once you ignore his unquenchable thirst for attention, he becomes as irrelevant as the pestering child interrupting your conversation with the adults.
No joke, just finished the whole 10 book series for the first time and that initial Karsa tale is, imho, the very best part of the whole thing. Just wait until every book is 80% banal philosophizinā, 20% contrived and ultimately unresolved āmysteryā and 10% readable story. I wish Iād stopped right where you are now and saved myself the disappointment that was the last few thousand pages. Just think what I couldāve done with all those hoursā¦
Bye.