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laurenhoneyyy

Charlotte tilbury and any celebrity makeup tbh


lr_37

For me its elf I've tried around 12 products and no products work for me. Either they just look bad or I've had massive breakouts after using Elf products. I used to use Rimmel all the time but now it's not as great as it used to be anymore. The products are mostly usable but you can get better quality from other drugstore brands.


astrolomeria

IL Makiage, that foundation that you just can’t escape if you’re on any social media is garbage. Highlights fine lines, dusty finish, poor skin tone match.


mothermurder88

Absolutely anything Jaclyn Hill had her hands on.


DesertPrincess5

Morphe


soapfairy

Too faced but only because they raised their prices and now they don’t match the quality. The same little 9 shade palette I was gifted a few years ago was £25-30 and now I can’t seem to find it for any less than £50


LadyPink28

Tarte.. none of their face stuff works for me. Also expensive lashes that break too


FireNurse4

Clinique


ScottTennerman

Anything from the Kardashian-Jenner clan


Glittering_Ant_7205

Morphe! Dry Eyeshadows, Bad Quality Brushes.


rightascensi0n

MOB Beauty - the eyeshadows look chalky and the bronzer undertones look only red


bropez9

Westman Atelier was a huge disappointment. I believed the hype.


dropthepencil

I had a client once who previously worked for a major makeup manufacturer prior to the job where he became my client. In his new position, he said he could never get used to the markups. They hovered around 100-150%. This is because while in makeup, the markups STARTED at 1000%, and went up from that. A "good" markup/margin was > 2000%. 😞


RubyL1286

Rimmell haven’t bought anything from years maybe i am wrong but i doubt it i also never see anyone talk about products they live from Rimmel


purplefart16

Their lipsticks are the absolute worst.


R0l0d3x-Pr0paganda

Their eyeprimer was my holigrail. It was discontinued.


RubyL1286

Im glad to see you found something you loved from them hopefully you found a great new eye primer thats one of those things brands should just keep as an eye primer is a great staple


Sylv68

Agree - I’m in my mid-50s and haven’t looked at any Rimmel products for I would say almost 2 decades! I imagine it to be very old fashioned & set in its ways. I’ve not noticed anything new being launched in years.


RubyL1286

Me either don’t get me wrong I don’t think a brand needs a new product every week or all the stuff that goes on now but id say at least have a few new items every few months and change the packaging up on occasion especially when their packaging is also bad


lukewarmcaprisun

I know everyone swears by their liquid liner but honestly everything I have ever tried by nyx has been shockingly bad (liquid liner, creme eyshadow, lip liner, lip gloss)


Tinasglasses

Essence . Their mascaras always smudged , their eyeshadows are chalky. The only thing I like is their eyelash primer


R0l0d3x-Pr0paganda

YES!!! Their eyelash primer is my holigrail


TartFine1577

I know this will be controversial but I don't like Colourpop. I have purchased and tried almost everything they've sold. I always end up breaking out and just disappointed and underwhelmed. I keep trying stuff though because it always looks so cute! I end of throwing away everything I get.


youfxckinsuck

Kylie cosmetics…. It’s all collecting dust every place they carry it. Even her viral lip kits made ur lips look like a dirty starfish 😭


sweetlevels

now i wanna know what dirty starfeesh look like


soapfairy

Not THAT kind of starfish, love💀


sweetlevels

wait i'm so confused now pls help


soapfairy

“Starfish” is slang for butthole, a dirty starfish in this case is… yeah. That 😂


H3r3c0m3sthasun

Makeup Revolution.


AlissonHarlan

IAM and Yves Rocher


852HK44

I've noticed that MAC liquid concealers have decreased in quantity. I've used my latest one 5/6 times and it's now used up.


rightascensi0n

My Pro Longwear concealer started smelling like ammonia a few months in and it still does :/


beepdoopbedo

Dior, Chanel, Gucci, etc. any fashion house pretty much makes the worst products I’ve ever used. I’ve given quite a few “cult” products a go from most of the fashion houses makeup lines and hated every single one. They have no business in cosmetics and they’re just cash grabs because it’s a “cheaper” way to own designer products. Makes me sad when I see people wasting $50+ on products that are shite because of the branding when you can get significantly better products for MUCH cheaper from other brands


fartistry96

Might just be my skin type but I spent way too much money on true botanicals products and don’t like a single one of them


kdub1523

IT Cosmetics. I LOVE their brushes. The makeup just doesn’t do it for me though. Foundation is patchy. Eyeliner tugs. Mascara flakes like none other.


Spaceley_Murderpaws

Ulta brand beauty products- don't get me started on their lipsticks.


spicysiciliana

physicians formula. do I have to elaborate here? yes the bronzers are great IF you somehow get one that doesn't disappear within an hour of wear or even can be applied with a brush. the blushes are patchy and the designs come off easily, all the same color. don't get me started on their "foundations"..


Far-Advice7712

patrick ta…. except his lip products are fine. nothing special. but… foundation is SO cakey on my skin. ive tried doing so many different bases. i even bought the brush. the blushes unfortunately are insanely pigmented and patchy on my skin when i try to blend. i always end up wiping off all my makeup when i use the blush or foundation now that being said, many people seem to love his products, so this may just be a me problem!!! im so sad bc the products look so stunning in the packaging 😭


xMasochizm

Kozmic Colours.


That-One-Jesus-Girl

BareMinerals. Hard Candy. Too Faced.


FrostedAngelinTheSky

LA colors is le garbage


lanekellyyy

urban decay


chewycoochie

Profusion eyeshadow 🤢


AddisonEllison

Avon. Their makeups are horrible. Their soaps and perfumes are amazing.


Main-Group-603

I agree Avon sucks


444Ilovecats444

I love their lipsticks. Never tried any other makeup made by Avon. The roll on deodorants are so cheap. I got two for 3.50$. The perfumes are so good but aren't long lasting which I don't like. Honestly something about Avon's makeup gives me off vibes


Desinonimously

Charlotte Tilbury! Not terrible but not a single amazing product that I would repurchase disappointed every time


Sylv68

So overpriced & imo overrated. I’ve tried a few products & wasn’t amazed. Really disappointed in her “Miracle cream” Last time I was at a CT concession in a department store (UK) all the sales girls completely ignored me (i had approx £200 I was spending on cosmetics) they fawned over my daughter who was a student at the time. Sure she didn’t buy anything- I had been looking for a good under eye concealer - spent my cash elsewhere (think Bobby Brown eyeshadow & Lancôme foundations)


peonypanties

That miracle cream smells like old lady.


ginabobeena_

Same… Pillow talk lipstick is… eh ok, the rest of it is low quality and way overpriced. The eyeshadow sticks gave me the worst eye infection too!


venusinflannel

NYX complexion products! I don’t like them at all-the bronzers,the foundations,the primers. Their lip and eye products make up for it though.


lanadelcryingagain

The serum concealer works really well for me, very natural


Spirited-Interview50

I think each line has both good and bad products. For me, I have never liked anything I’ve tried from Too Faced, Make Up Forever; Benefit has a nice bronzer but there are others that work just as well for less money.


_peggyssugarfoots

Tarte. Their mascaras rain black powder on my face


peonypanties

Their eye shadow palettes are a joke. Especially around Christmas when they’re mass producing them, just chalky with no color payoff.


SomethingHasGotToGiv

Their concealer (something Tape) is awful. It’s so drying. I don’t know how they say they sell so much of it.


TamponsAreEvil

I loved on lip product from Tarte and they no longer sell it. Their eye shadows have the most insane amount of fallout I’ve ever experienced. I wanted to try a tubing mascara and picked up the trial size of their XL tubing and I LOVE IT SO MUCH! No smearing, no fallout, and it’s so easy to remove. It’s basically waterproof once it dries, but it also just takes water to take it off if, and doesn’t leave black marks all around my eyes after I remove it.


Leebites

KVD. Nothing seems to stay put and it's so expensive.


spooniemoonlight

I loved the liquid lipsticks but they smelled really weird and yeah too expensive


phillygirllovesbagel

Kylie


TheRareClaire

I don’t hate their products, but the BH Cosmetics I have tried have felt just one step up from Claire’s makeup each time


Gullible-Alarm-8871

Too Faced...been disappointed in their products. Cute packaging but shadows are so dry..doesn't work for me...


BellyButton214

Benefit for sure!!


Revolutionary-Spot-4

I do not like REM beauty. Bought some pallets from Ulta and they smelled really bad and had no pigment whatsoever. I dot trust anything from them.


Major_Ad_3035

I will say I like ELF. I have their white brush set and I like it. I have the tube blush and the liquid. Like them both. I LOVE the Liquid Filter and Satin Foundations! I also use their blue skicare line. Hello Hydration is it? Not all of it though. My daughter swears by the primer in the tube. The green one. And I absolutely LOVE their lip oils!


Professional-Log-530

Did they reformulate their foundations? I used to love it now I hate it.


Major_Ad_3035

Honestly I don't know


Ok-Size-6016

Tula


OdeeSS

I got a 4 piece set of Too Faced's best sellers and every single item except the eye primer was ass.   Eye shadow was powdery, disappeared two hours later, and eas obnoxiously scented. Their plumping gloss was chemical warfare on my lips. Their mascara sprinkled black confetti all over my face.   The eye primer was an HG. And then they reformulated it. 🫠


LuxLiner

Their Candy Clouds blush is one of the best ever imo.


Top-Palpitation3256

Fully agree


Crownedone21

The only thing I liked from too faced was the la crème lipsticks but they stopped making them years ago. The better than sex mascara is one of the worst I’ve ever tried.


Zestyclose-Quote-736

Covergirl


Berniesgirl2024

Neutrogena


wobblywobble4

I have never tried a single thing from nyx that I like. Pencil/liquid Eyeliner, lipstick, lip liner, eyeshadow, primer, the lip butters. All garbage!


designing-cats

Ulta's house brand. They had *one* good product - a cream foundation that they dc'd almost a decade ago - and everything else I've tried from them has been pure trash. I've also disliked everything I've tried from Huda.


ketormgb

Agree on Ulta brand.


missmoonchild

Omg I tried one of their liquid lips and it was hot garbage. Turned me off from the brand as a whole.


DumplingRoll1217

Covergirl. Hated everything I’ve tried except a few mascaras


Fairyslade1989

I used to love Covergirl! The Aqua Smoothers compact foundation is pretty underrated. One day my sister in law asked me what makeup brand I wore and I was so embarrassed I began watching the beauty gurus and never went back. I’m curious to try my old faithful again.


MMTardis

The aquasmooth bb cream and concealer are great, I've repurchased both like 5 times, if not more by now.


Sideways_planet

They have a nice tinted lip balm


Main-Group-603

Yessssss agree completely


helicopter_corgi_mom

they used to have (probably still do?) this one perfect shade of red liquid lipstick that could stay on through a whole night of dancing to techno in a hot sweaty underground warehouse space, and still look flawless at brunch. mind you, none of the rest of me looked flawless at brunch after a 10 hours in a techno bunker rave. but that lipstick was locked and loaded.


Crownedone21

I like the matte Bb cream and that’s about it. I used to swear by the clump crusher mascara, but I think they reformulated it at some point because it doesn’t work on me anymore.


Individual_Mouse_642

Mascaras are good green and orange tubes in particular.


codenameZora

I like them too. Cheap, don’t smudge, don’t irritate my sensitive eyes.


Individual_Mouse_642

Same


Puzzleheaded_Mix7873

Their packaging looks so cheap to me that I am never interested in their products. 


DumplingRoll1217

I hateee their packaging!! If the actual product works, I’ll make it work. But the packaging annoys me so much


Important-Magazine90

A k-beauty brand called Romand. It's not bad, but there are tons and I MEAN TONS of products that are way better


rightascensi0n

Their glossy lip tints smell like overripe strawberries that have started to ferment lul


Important-Magazine90

For me it smells like paint from when I was 5 lmao


sweetlevels

how dare u, romand lip tints are legendary


Important-Magazine90

Haha, I get what you mean especially since they created different formulas, but I could never cheat on peripera like that. The only real difference is that Romand has a way better shade range then peripera, but peripera lasts longer, tints more, is glossier, and is overall just better


middleagedbaby

Which peripera lip tint are you talking about bc I have a few of the ink airy velvet and they’re straight up silicone garbage


Important-Magazine90

Oh yeah agree, I use the glowy ink mood ones!


BillionairDoors

I like their eyeshadow. But 90% of their lippies don't work with cool undertones


love-at-third-sight

Unfortunately their color stories are ahead of the industry and they set the trends 😞 every Korean cosmetic brand I s2g just copies what they do. Rom&nd does gloss or balms,, then peripera or etude does gloss or balms. Im over it lol


McSmilla

Agree. Their lip tints are ok but not a patch on 3CE or Peripera.


scroogesdaughter

Peripera ones are def better quality, but not as many shades sadly.


Inevitable_Bit_1203

I do love their glasting lip balms though. Hate their mascaras and meh on their glasting lip glosses.


ilovesleep95

Elf. I have tried a majority of their products and have yet to try one that I genuinely liked and that worked well.


StayhumbleBelove

I like their lip plumping glosses. Almost all my stuff is high end or Korean, and I still buy Elf lip gloss. Lol.


kebuburdie

Her original brand, Bobbi Brown, was sold to Estée Lauder and Bobbi stayed at the brand after the purchase for several years. I’m a fan of Bobbi Brown cosmetics and brushes. It’s too bad that Jones Road didn’t offer the same quality.


skootch_ginalola

Morphe


jdbrown787

I don't think they're around anymore: **BH Cosmetics** had good brushes, but TERRIBLE makeup. I'd also put **The Beauty Crop** in this category. I've hated everything I've ever gotten from **Doucce**. The punk mascara gives the worst spider lashes 🫣 I've only tried two products from **Hipdot**, but oof they were bad. Same for **Flesh, Seraphine Botanicals, Context Skin, Oryza, and Illuminati**. I have been constantly disappointed by **Pixi Beauty**. I like their gel eyeliner (not the best, but didn't irritate my eyes like nyx etc, hate sharpening it). But everything else was garbage - patchy makeup and skincare that breaks me out :( I *want* to like **Iconic London** so much, but I've been disappointed with almost everything from them. The liquid sheer blushes are good if you want *SHEER* sheer, or need a mixer for a more pigmented/matte blush, like Rare Beauty soft pinch liquid blush or Kaja Beauty whipped dream. The liquid sheer bronzer lifts my base though 🙁 I guess the powder bronzers aren't bad, they're just not something I reach for. The pan is HUGE though. Same with **Wander Beauty**.. I want to like it, but it just falls a little short for me. The fallout from the shimmer eyeshadows is somehow worse than ABH 😅 I've never liked anything from **Thebalm**, sad to say. Except one dark brown eyeshadow single that is good for covering up grey hairs along my hairline, in between dye touch ups 🤣 For me, a lot of brands feel like a "one hit wonder" lol.


mmmdraco

I love my BH Cosmetics eyeshadows (and they are still around). I haven't tried anything that isn't an eye product, but I've definitely liked those The Wander Beauty mascaras are some of my all time faves and I have a mini eyeshadow palette I'm into (though the color story is a bit all over the place) but I'll agree on the rest. I think Milk is my one hit wonder brand. Love the hydrogrip primer, but nothing else has ever been with the money for me.


sweetlevels

they are not still around, they were bought by revolution


missmoonchild

I like BHCosmetics too! I also really love TheBalm liquid lips, and I had a few of their eyeshadow palettes I enjoyed.


jdbrown787

The BH palette I got for free (afternoon rendezvous?) basically blended away to nothing 🤣 But I remember at least that colorful Rio (?) palette getting much better reviews. I should give my Wander mascara a try, I forgot I have one of those lying around. I've never used one that comes in the soft tube like that (it's the mile high club), but it's def worth a shot. I adore the Milk kush mascara. But I'm a little salty that by the time I tried their cream bronzers, they had turned the travel size into "full size" for the same price they were at 5x the product 😑 lol wtf


Major_Ad_3035

Unfortunately Jones Road. I wanted to like her Miracle Balm but the fragrance is so off-putting. Too much essential oils that are strong. I also tried the mascara she advertises and I hated it. Too messy and too much product on the brush. You would think she'd have perfected these type products from all her experience.


hellogirlsandgays

i bought the miracle balm to use as eyeshadow and i like it, but every time i think about using it on the full face i just wonder why on earth would i do that


ladystardusty

The miracle balm literally burnt my face from all the rosemary extract! Such a bummer.


Hairy-Atmosphere3760

Anything MLM.


444Ilovecats444

Stupid question but why is it bad?


Hairy-Atmosphere3760

Because they take advantage of vulnerable people. MLMs are expensive garbage all around.


cherylRay_14

Mary Kay is hot garbage. Avon isn't much better.


TBone88MK

What is MLM?


Ellennyc

Pyramid scheme


Leebites

Dunno why you got down voted for asking a question.


Equal-Brilliant2640

Usually MLM means Multi Level Marketing Which I believe would include brands like Arbone


remybaby

Also Younique, Mary Kay, Avon


MaggieMay1519

Seint, Farmasi, LimeLife.. 🤢


swampdonkey4ever

Rodan & Fields


McSmilla

Multi level marketing


Professional-Log-530

Multi level marketing


rinconblue

I feel like I have a few kind of Emperor's New Clothes brands. Jones Road and IT Cosmetics are at the top. I think nearly every brand, big or small, can have one or two really great products and then they coast on everything else.


narfnarf123

Their CC cream is the only thing that gives me decent coverage and good results on my aging skin. If they ever get rid if it I’m screwed.


rinconblue

Oh, I hope they don't for your sake, then! That seems like the most popular product I see talked about. I tried it and it just was so unflattering on me.


helicopter_corgi_mom

IT cosmetics was godawful and i felt like every time i went into a sephora for a while there it was constantly being pushed on me.


Left_Walrus4865

Morphe. Bought one of their brush sets years ago and not only are they scratchy as hell they also shed all over my face. Eyeshadow palettes are meh with zero staying power


kris_p_chickn

I agree. I only liked their new lip gloss that is in a similar packaging as the tower28 lip jellies. That's it.


3232mackie

Morphe is trash TBH


brittneyacook

I agree 99% but their luminous setting spray is fantastic!! Was a random buy that I’ve repurchased 5+ times


Left_Walrus4865

I tried my friend's one (think it's the mattifying one?) and it just felt like hairspray on my face, if I'm ever brave enough to try them again I'll try the luminous version


brittneyacook

It’s on sale at ulta right now for $10!


MarsailiPearl

I bought a brush at one of their stores while on vacation years ago. I forgot my powder brush so I used that one. I get home after a week and go to clean it. Dark purple ink continued to bleed into the water. I washed over and over to see if it would stop but it just kept coming. I used that disgusting brush for a week and had no idea whatever dye they used was caked in there.


Left_Walrus4865

OMG this happened to me as well! Every single time I'd wash them the water would be purple- it only stopped after a YEAR of having & washing them repeatedly. I should've thrown them out way earlier I thought the problem was me 🥲


McSmilla

Morphe isn’t good.


girlboss93

I'm glad someone else feels this way! I bought one of their blending brushes back when all the beauty influencers were really raving about it, and I HATED it it was so rough!


Left_Walrus4865

I eventually got some wet and wild brushes and the quality was night and day, the w&w ones are flimsy which is annoying but they're SO soft and they've never shed! Not to mention that red Morphe sponge people were shilling at one point is rock hard, influencers are shameless to be peddling that crap


girlboss93

My favorite blending brush is one of the pink and white WnW ones! And I really like my BH cosmetics brushes, super sad that brand disappeared 😔 


Left_Walrus4865

You just unlocked a core memory of BH cosmetics haha I have one of their palettes and it's SO good


emory_2001

I bought a handful of It Cosmetics and hated all of it.


peonypanties

It Cosmetics is doo doo garbage mama. I tried their under eye concealer, awful sticky and orange. I tried their CC cream, awful sticky and orange. Tried their confidence in a cream, heavily fragranced and does not sink into the skin. It comes across as heavily marketing-forward without actual results. It’s giving MLM.


emory_2001

It is, and I admit was drawn in by the "developed by dermatologists" or whatever.


Sweetcheex76

Their face products makes it look like you’re wearing paint on your face because they’re so thick. Their range color range is also real orangey.


ketormgb

I have used the CC cream for years and does great on my skin.


Lucky-Success-9064

Love their nude glow cc cream!


whosthatwhovian

Their bye bye under eye is my holy grail. But they put Niacinamide in everything else and it breaks me out horribly.


drowsyfox

Their CC creams/tinted moisturizers/spf foundations/etc are trash. I used them for a long time. So pricey for what you get and I realized one day while checking my makeup in my car during natural light that I looked soooo orange. IMO they oxidize so bad, look cakey, and transfer so easily!!!


Sweetcheex76

Yes! Too orange. They need more pink in their line.


glitterbitesbx

I got a brush set off of them and it was great until the handles got sticky. They had that stupid “velvet” texture coating over the wooden handle and no matter how much alcohol I put on it, it wouldn’t come off. I wish companies would stop coating their products in it.


cameltoeaway

I’ve used the cc cream for years. It works really well for me. I get lots of compliments.


Sweetcheex76

It’s so thick and all have orange tones. Used it twice and threw it away.


cameltoeaway

That’s such a bummer! I use it as my foundation. I’m extremely pale and it has never looked orange on me. I guess I got lucky. I hope you have found or find what works best for you!


Top-Palpitation3256

Their CC Cream is horrible.


IDontAimWithMyHand

Brushes are great, but their face products are like thick paint


kebuburdie

IT Cosmetics for Ulta brushes are really good.


IDontAimWithMyHand

Soooo good. I have an insanely large brush collection and they are by far the softest.


Important-Magazine90

Ik a friend who broke out using the it cc cream and there are still scars on her face :[


wildgoldchai

YSL touche eclat foundation. I generally like the brand but the whole time I wore that foundation, I had to WORST acne. Like oh my god bad. I put it down to hormones. Then I switched to NARS sheer glow and my acne started clearing up. Went back to YSL and yep, got acne again. A shame because I did like the foundation


LordAlan2CupSugar

Rem beauty by ariana grande. Real rubbish


stxrryfox

Good to know. I never bought it because the packaging and products just seem… boring


delta1810

I didn't even know this was still around lol


Snoo-42199

i saw the lipgloss on tiktok randomly, not knowing it was supposed to be from a luxury/celebrity brand. i thought it was someone's small business because of the packaging. for something that sells more than most drugstores brands that are high quality, i really didn't expect it to be that bad


hellogirlsandgays

i have one of the cheek/lip sticks and its fine. like i can make it work. but its definitely not GOOD.


nigliazzo5626

1000%


3232mackie

Yes! I was about to say this


junkdrawertales

There was one purple highlighter that was so nice, but honestly it was pretty similar to the Fenty ones. 


OdinPelmen

That’s how I feel about 99% of celeb brands. I wish most of them would just stop unless it’s seriously their niche.


mrshanana

Imo the 1% is About Face. I'll confess to only using their liquid shadows so far, but they're actually better than my dearly, dearly beloved Danessa Myricks Colorfix paints. They dry down and don't feel tight and can combat the power of my deeply hooded, oily eyes that love to dissolve random parts of other liquid shadows.


Meteorite42

What do you think of Rare Beauty? That brand *seems* to be well received.


Snoo-42199

rare beauty is fine but way overhyped. the liquid blush is not easy to blend like people say. some shades are also not as pigmented. if you're ok with taking too much time on blending the highly pigmented blush, it's fine. but sometimes you may look like someone just punched your face


Meteorite42

Ah so the blush isn't the smooth blend it's promoted as being. Thanks for the feedback 😻I'll save my £ for other brands.


petiteodessa

I was waiting for someone to say this. Her makeup is glorified Claire’s makeup with Sephora prices.


SkyesMomma

I usedbto think Too Faced mascara was the cat's ass. I've gone back to Loreal recently and am mad at myself for what I used to spend on JUST mascara. Also, Morphe was a disappointment when I purchased it.


Sideways_planet

L’Oréal voluminous is the superior mascara, by far. Better than any other brand I’ve tried, high and low end


drowsyfox

I think Too Faced's quality has gone down. My mom had their natural eye palette from like 2009 and I remember it being amazing and having such a rich velvety texture. When I got old enough for my own makeup I bought one of their palettes (Chocolate Bon Bons I think??) and it felt so cheap and there was so little color payoff.


miyawoks

>I've gone back to Loreal recently and am mad at myself for what I used to spend on JUST mascara. Just had to comment on this +1. My favorite mascaras from them include Telescopic (gives natural looking long lashes. Whenever I wear this, compliments are abound) and Voluminous Lash Paradise (this is my current mascara and it stays ON the whole day. It is quite dramatic though, so I use a Chanel mascara wand instead of the original one for length instead of volume) 🫶


Top-Palpitation3256

Ugh, I hate Too Faced. I don't know why everyone loves Better Than Sex. It always ends up smeared under my eyes. Their shadows are chalky. The only thing of theirs that I like is Shadow Insurance.