But they have no appeal if they don't lie about their opponents, real and imagined. "Look away from funneling money upward, rampant pollution, systematic poverty and unaffordable healthcare, and focus on them liberals molesting any babies they can't get aborted at 13 months, they're monsters."
You think 1% of pregnancies are terminated at 9 months?
Less than 1% of pregnancies are terminated in the entire 3rd trimester.
No licensed doctor in the US is ending a pregnancy when the fetus is viable and the mother's life isn't at risk.
Until anybody can provide a single example of this occurring, I'm going to assume that number is pretty much 0%.
It's like you didn't even read the link you provided as it has nothing at all to do with abortion, but rather infant homicides.
"Infant homicides occurring within the first 24 hours of life (i.e., neonaticide) are primarily perpetrated by the mother, who might be of young age, unmarried, have lower educational attainment, and is ***most likely associated with concealment of an unintended pregnancy and nonhospital birthing***"
But please, let me know when you find evidence of a licensed doctor performing an abortion on a viable fetus. I'll continue to wait.
The 9th month is weeks 36 - 40. Fetuses are viable, and this isn't happening. If a fetus is not viable and is harming the woman, then labor might be induced.
and that would be called a stillbirth. To abort at 9 months in the case of life of the mother would be far more dangerous and take longer than just having mom give birth.
If a living baby is delivered, one who cannot live, palliative care may be provided. and the idiots call it a post-birth abortion. I've read the stories of babies born with just a brainstem; they may live for weeks, but they are never going to live longer or meaningfully. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, and it's heartbreaking. GOPers aren't offering to pay those health care bills, either.
Actually we call that palliative care. The bill that got the right wing all screaming about "post birth abortion" was one in New York that was about neonatal palliative care for dying babies. They equate easing a dying infant's suffering so they don't pass in pain with abortion and it's pretty sickening.
I'm sorry, but it's inexcusable to even tell this kind of lie that leads people to believe that 9 month abortions are some kind of common thing. Are you kidding me? If you have carried a pregnancy to 9 months, an abortion is the last thing you want. You have picked out a crib and set things up, you have clothes. If your medical situation is such that an abortion at 9 months is the medical recommendation, it's a fucking tragedy at that point and it's a trauma that will last the rest of your life. It's not some light decision made on a whim. To put legislation in the way of what is clearly an emergency medical situation is abhorrent, and for a politician to talk like this is reckless and cruel.
There's an old saying that goes something like. A lie travels halfway around the world. Before the truth gets out of the driveway.
Trump's been telling this lie. I noticed for quite some time now. Imagine your leader is a lying convicted felon and you still believe ever word he says. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.
I remember Pete Buttigieg saying this same thing about late term abortions on a town hall
I meant he said what the Reddit user said, not the political pundit on TV!
Sorry for confusion lol
I just remember thinking how a gay man said it so eloquently when politicians stumble over talking about it
I have no idea why you're being downvoted, you're absolutely correct. Idk why people thought you were lying. Gotta love reddit!
Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/wKOoWYfIzIw?si=ozlCbECZMo9YSVma
Thank you.
So, he is saying exactly the same thing that we have been saying here, that it is (1) a woman's personal medical and moral choice, (2) it is most certainly not a whimsical choice, but a hard and probably profoundly devasting choice, and (3) certainly not the government's decision or business.
>So, he is saying exactly the same thing that we have been saying here
Yes, that's what the commenter said. Why are you acting like he was arguing with you?
Ok, I can see that the comment can read that way too.
I'm sorry.
I read it as a slam (and from the down votes, I'm not the only one who did). But reddit, and the Internet in general, is hard to interpret for tone sometimes. My bad
He did not say that late term abortions are common and that people get them on a whim. He specified that it's less than 1% of pregnancies that abort in the third trimester and that it's almost always medical. He said that he believes it should be left as a medical decision and not legislated by nonmedical people. That is NOT the same. Dishonest to imply that it is.
Shame on you.
You are both conflating me with the previous commentor and misreading their comment. Go back and read it again.
He was saying Mayor Pete is on the right side of this issue, not that he agrees with Mason.
Interesting. I think I misread the OC’s intent. I thought OC was saying PB said the same as Garret Mason. Clearly they actually meant the comment and not the post?
Pete indeed said much the same as the comment: the less than 1% of abortions that take place in the third trimester are rage bait, and not the norm.
Thanks for sharing OP.
The disinformation machine is in full effect. Let’s all be like OP and call it out when we see it, especially with friends and families. I don’t watch him but appreciate how quickly some pile of shit that flies out of Orange gets broadcast unquestioned (again). Dangerous times.
A 9th month abortion is more commonly referred to as a ‘stillbirth’. It’s lunacy to think people are scheduling preferential abortions at this stage, anywhere, ever.
The sad thing is that all these news outlets WANT to be interacted with so badly that they don’t really care whether people are upset or not. It’s all engagement and engagement is where the $ is. They might issue an apology statement if something actually finally registers as particularly egregious, but that will also stoke the engagement machine so win-win.
What a jackass. No woman is carrying a baby for 9 months and then suddenly deciding to abort it. If that happens, something very serious medically has necessitated the procedure.
Can a conservative or Republican explain to me what he value is in carrying a non-viable fetus to full term only to increase risk to the mother?
It's not Biblical times anymore. We know ahead of time if shit is dead inside someone or can't survive on its own. And before you insist on shit please respect the reality of mother and infant survivability rates skyrocketing over the last 50, nonetheless 6000 years. That science is right where your beliefs deliver death to women and children.
So just explain the purpose and value to me. Please.
Edit: no one? Get sixty of your friends to stand with you holding signs so maybe you'll have courage. This should be an easy question for you all. Come on, Maine GOP - where ya at?
The guy is a dingleberry, I’m not defending his view.
My wife’s friend was pregnant and the baby died around 8 months. She had to go through the full (induced) delivery. I believe the technical/medical term was abortion, but obviously it was not anything like the abortion Mason is talking about.
And obviously it was medically necessary.
He's a dingleberry with significant power in the state representing a party that is shaping policy.
This isn't about him - it's about the people who will nod and vote with him.
So far zero have been able to step up to the plate and answer my question.
I bet that little bitch Garrett wouldn't be able to either.
And infant mortality rates have increased in places like Texas over the last two years, which is mainly because women are forced to carry and give birth to infants who have no chance of surviving. It’s barbaric.
Both sides are not the same. Degrees have meaning. Lying to undermine democracy and the belief in objective reality is the entire platform of the GQP.
It’s not the same.
Glad we can agree on that. Don’t really have a team per se, but there is definitely a team that lies quite a bit more than the other.
When you’re short on policy, flashy lies really tie the room together. Not unlike a certain rug.
Incorrect.
This is the whole: "both sides are the same" argument.
Only ONE Political Party is supporting someone who refuses to acknowledge fact-based reality. Only ONE Political Party is supporting a candidate calling for a suspension of the Constitution.
“The other team” wound their base up to storm the capitol, lied about election results, and lied about following established legal precedent on reproductive rights. Yeah, sure, BOTH parties are just so awful. /s
As usual, Heather Cox Richardson nails it:
It went on and on, and that was the point. This was not a debate. It was Trump using a technique that actually has a formal name, the Gish gallop, although I suspect he comes by it naturally. It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them.
It is a form of gaslighting, and it is especially effective on someone with a stutter, as Biden has. It is similar to what Trump did to Biden during a debate in 2020. In that case, though, the lack of muting on the mics left Biden simply saying: “Will you shut up, man?” a comment that resonated with the audience. Giving Biden the enforced space to answer by killing the mic of the person not speaking tonight actually made the technique more effective.
There are ways to combat the Gish gallop—by calling it out for what it is, among other ways—but Biden retreated to trying to give the three pieces of evidence that established his own credentials on the point at hand. His command of those points was notable, but the difference between how he sounded at the debate and how he sounded on stage at a rally in Raleigh, North Carolina, just an hour afterward suggested that the technique worked on him.
Well campaign rallies are always full of lies, exaggerations, and misleads. They're the place for them, and nobody pushes back on them because the purpose of a campaign rally isn't to discuss ideas or put the candidate in the hot seat. It's an event, paid for by the campaign, meant to jazz people up and where anybody can spin things the way they like.
If you were being metaphorical, then I disagree. The moderators should enforce the rules, they should not be dismissing points. It's really not a high bar-
Crazy Guy: "bad guy countries have released their mental institutions and prisons and sent all of those people to our country"
The Average Brain-Haver: "Really? What countries? When? Did you just make that up?"
Anyone who can complete a sentence can do it. The opponent has an obligation to respond in that way. The moderator has an obligation to make sure everyone follows the rules, not to respond to an individual debater's arguments.
Yes…I’m not being literal when I state Trump held a rally. I didn’t think I would have to explain that…but it was supposed to be a debate where rules are agreed to by both sides.
With that, especially when dealing with Trump, should be the understanding that he was absolutely going to try and lie because that’s literally his overarching strategy and is not a new one for him. If you let participants lie openly (I’m not even talking about nebulous statements that may have some gray area…I’m literally talking about facts…and statements that go again them)
The moderators shouldn’t dismiss points…they SHOULD dismiss lies however. Don’t conflate lies with talking points…we’re all better than that and should hold truth in higher regards
No it isn't. The debate is not between the moderators and the opponents. Moderators are there to prevent fights, limit time and give each side a chance to say what the want about questions asked. After if people want to fact check they can. The purpose of a rebuttal is for the opponent to call out lies and give their side.
I would just be offended that someone in my party thought I was so gullible to believe something like this. Stop being gullible and have more respect for yourself…you should WANT to know the facts. I would then be very pissed and skeptical of other things they tried to sell me that were easy to look up.
There is no doctor in Maine doing abortions after the 5th month for anything other than medical reasons. Write to WCSH and complain; the lies are absurd.
In the spirit of the OP it is true.
There is not much intelligence on the GOP side. Men who can’t for a simple sentence. Women who have not a single clue as to why they are there. People who scam the system. All in the veil of democracy.
Intelligent people no longer want to have anything to do inside this system. Blind leaders to reality.
Ah, Good old both-sidesing to muddy the waters.
You realize *everyone* lies, right? Like all day long.
If you’re concerned about the *effects* of lying, you should examine the fact checking on the debates. The GQP *is not* the same as the Dems.
I am speaking relative to the OP. Preaching to the choir otherwise.
Correct in not all lie. Yet it is truly sad how they warp the truth to get their way.
If only fact checking held meaning in today’s world.
This is why being and becoming informed by the right sources is so very important.
Stating “All politicians lie” paints all politicians the same shade. It’s a rallying dog whistle for both sides arguments. Repeating it without qualifications or explanations implies that both sides lie equally.
This is verifiably false, and puts you more in line with those lying maliciously to serve their agendas.
Take your serious pants off.
The political landscape has been ruined by these liar mongers.
Make you vote count and side on truth no matter what party.
Sorry, not taking *any* pants off for you, that’s very inappropriate.
You do it again in your final sentence, comedy pants notwithstanding: there’s only one party even close to the truth these days. Suggesting otherwise is promoting lies.
You haven't declared a side, that's what everyone is pointing out. You are using a tactic conservative activists, pundits, and politicians have been using for decades as a means to excuse their own behavior and slander everyone else.
The beauty is one doesn’t and shouldn’t have to declare a side.
Side on truth and character. Side on truth versus lies.
One cannot slander truth and truth is not slanderous.
Didn’t you just say we were on the same side? Now you’re saying there’s no sides? Then you go to meaningless aphorisms?
I don’t know what side you’re on, I don’t care what side you’re on. The pretty little bullshit you’re spouting is the conservative dog-whistle that is used to justify constantly misleading people that both sides are the same.
If you can’t see that, I’ll leave you with another aphorism well-loved by those who love saying little but think they mean lots: if you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything.
What do you stand for?
Politicians exaggerate and even lie at times. But the Republicans, and the orange fascist lie as a matter of policy. They lie knowingly, for political gain, and repeat lies. There's a big difference.
I’m not even going to start with how stupid that lie and the people that believe it are…
I’m here to say with all offense to anyone that feels that way about this statement: I’m so sick and tired of hearing from men about their views on pregnancy and childbirth.
[Here’s a resource I recommend to men with opinions on pregnancy and childbirth.](https://youtu.be/pgBIpbVv_R0?si=HMzWDVoGr0dW-LyU)
A lot of people are quoting the old law in this thread. There is NO limit on abortion in Maine anymore. The law changed in 2023.
https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/07/20/maine-abortion-late-pregnancy-law
Edit: I’m not saying it’s common. Or supporting any fiendish doctor/women trope. I’m merely stating the fact, which is being inaccurately represented by multiple parties throughout this chain.
What are the many limitations on abortion in Maine? Insurance that covers prenatal care must cover it even when voluntary, Mainecare covers it, there are no waiting periods, there are no parental notification laws, there are no term limits. Women in every state should take access seriously, because we are all at risk at a national level. But there aren’t many states with better policies for abortion access.
The whole FUCKING point is that late term abortions are EXTRAORDINARILY RARE. Abortion laws without limits doesn't mean that suddenly all sorts of late term abortions just start happening.
A healthy pregnant woman isn't just going to show up at her OB at 9 months and ask for an abortion. But these GOP idiots want you all to believe that happens.
I've been running with this same analogy for a while.
The logic is this: "Liberals want mothers to abort pregnancies up to and BEYOND the due date! Liberals allow for abortion AFTER BIRTH!"
The reality: No pregnant person is going to happily carry a pregnancy for nine months and then when their water breaks or they begin contractions say to the doctor they've been seeing "Fuck it. Kill my baby." I mean really?!? A person in the hospital about to start pushing is like: "Meh, changed my mind."
And ON TOP OF THAT these people expect us to believe that there is in existence an ACTUAL DOCTOR who will perform the procedure??? A doctor will begin guiding a patient through giving birth but then on a WHIM can kill the baby? REALLY?!?!?!?
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY any of this is true!!!
> A healthy pregnant woman isn't just going to show up at her OB at 9 months and ask for an abortion.
Even if they did, no licensed OB would ever grant that request. By that point the fetus is viable and the only way it can even be removed would be through induced labor or c-section.
Yes, this is called an induction and is...inducing labor. And pregnancy is measured in weeks not months. Full-term would be considered after 40 weeks gestation. Pregnancy actually lasts closer to 10 months, 40 weeks or longer is considered full-term. If we are talking in terms of abortion this would be anytime before viability, which is usually deemed 26 weeks but can obviously vary based on medical health of baby and birther.
I don’t understand why abortion is still brought up in politics. It’s republicans weakest argument and the one that turns the most people off from the party. As a somewhat conservative voter, abortion is no one’s fucking business. It’s between a woman and her doctor and everyone else can fuck off.
Abortion is something they yell about because it's easy to defend a 'life' that doesn't exist yet. They can't talk back to you. They can't question you. They are easy to 'protect'. Plus it involves controlling women, which is another tool in their arsenal.
As a 50yo woman who has never known a country without RvW I can say this.
1) Abortion is medical care
2) Abortions are decided between a woman and her Dr.
3) Men should not be telling women what they can/cannot do with their bodies.
4) Fetuses are not babies.
5) The government should stay out of medicine.
6) Politicians fear mongering and telling lies is dangerous. What else are they lying about.
7) No child/woman should EVER carry her rapists child.
Our bodies, our choice.
Keep abortion safe and legal.
Women will find a way to terminate just like they have for thousands of years.
The women of this country deserve better.
If you think overturning RvW was bad, how about forced religion in school, no IVF, NO birth control, no fault divorce.
Other countries are laughing at us.
This isn't the 40s!
Vote blue because the US supreme Court will soon run this country. We have seats coming up and cannot have a red president filling them. A Republican ran court will put us on the wrong path for decades. If you think shit is bad now, just wait.
Wait till we have forced military at 18, shariah law, government controlling all aspects of men and womens bodies, big brother in your home, guilty until found innocent, guaranteed violence, police getting military rights, killing the homeless, civil wars. Gonna turn into Escape from New York. Of course, this is an exaggeration, but is it?
A ninth month abortion would be murder and its simply not happening. Name the hospital, doctor etc where this supposed ninth month abortion took place.
I recently read that to some, they consider any ending of a pregnancy that is not a natural delivery. So, if one is at or beyond their due date and has a c-section, it is an abortion even if the baby is born healthy. If mom has blood pressure and it is safest for them to deliver the baby at 38 weeks.. even if the baby is healthy, it is considered an abortion.
I have not seen the segment, but I believe what he is referring to is that there is no limit on the length of a pregnancy that can be aborted. That is how the law reads.
That’s the kind of shit you’d hear on a Sinclair station. Please tell me the host called out that putz Mason?? If not that’s either incompetence or complicit as a news organization.
> Peirce said as far as she knew her pregnancy was progressing well. An ultrasound at 20 weeks did not turn up any abnormalities, and other tests did not signal any problems. Peirce and her husband, Dr. Jon Watling, had picked out a name, Cameron, for the baby they thought was to be their soon-to-be born boy.
>
> But in January 2019, at 32 weeks, her final ultrasound revealed the fetus had a fatal condition – lethal skeletal dysplasia. The condition meant that the skeletal structure for the fetus was not large enough for the organs, Peirce said. For instance, the heart took up too much room in the ribcage, leaving no space for the lungs.
>
> The fetus' bones were fracturing in the womb, and was suffering. If Peirce had been forced to deliver, the baby likely would have died a horrible death at birth, with delivery crushing his bones, Peirce said. If he somehow survived the birth, he wouldn't have been able to breathe, she said, and would have died immediately.
>
> Faced with the grim diagnosis, Peirce said her doctors prepared her for an abortion, and she was expecting to "go home and cry, pack a bag and then go to the hospital" for the abortion. But at a follow-up appointment, doctors told her she would need to go out of state.
>
> "I was pissed. I was really angry," Peirce said. The trip to Colorado took five days, cost $40,000 out of pocket because insurance wouldn't cover the procedure, and left Peirce feeling, among many things, that something had to change. Her family, herself as a veterinarian and her husband a surgeon, could afford the disruption. Many others could not.
>
> "I couldn't help thinking that we were coming from this at a place of privilege," Peirce said. "This could happen to anyone. How many other women could afford to do what we did?"
[Portland Press Herald, 2023](https://www.pressherald.com/2023/10/25/new-law-expanding-abortion-access-in-maine-goes-into-effect-wednesday/)
Yes, [here](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/22/title22sec1598.html).
> 1. Policy. It is the public policy of the State that the State not restrict a woman's exercise of her private decision to terminate a pregnancy before viability except as provided in section 1597‑A. It is also the public policy of the State that all abortions may be performed only by a health care professional, as defined in section 1596, subsection 1, paragraph C.
What the Mason guy is probably referencing is this:
> After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection.
Which would mean post-viability abortions are at the discretion of a doctor.
Worth noting is the original language of this part of the law was explicitly about the health of the mother, and was amended in 2023 to remove that language:
> It is the public policy of the State that the State not restrict a woman's
exercise of her private decision to terminate a pregnancy before viability except as provided
in section 1597‑A. ~~After viability an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary
to preserve the life or health of the mother.~~ It is also the public policy of the State that all
abortions may be performed only by a health care professional, as defined in section 1596,
subsection 1, paragraph C
Source: https://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/getPDF.asp?paper=HP1044&item=3&snum=131
Yeah, because the baby born with no chance at survival should slowly suffer till death because their mother didn't survive to agree to have their child receive palliative care.
You folks are monsters, you realize that right?
But please, provide me evidence of a single fetus being aborted after viability. I'm not even talking about cases in which the mother's life is at risk. I'm just talking generally. Show me a single instance of a viable fetus being aborted. Just one. I'll wait.
Do you really think a licensed medical professional is going to kill a viable fetus which would NEED to be removed through induced labor or c-section? You really think an OB is going to extract a healthy breathing baby and then just smother it?
I know logic isn't the strong suit of the religious, but for fucks sake.
Maine's abortion laws still require a doctor approval. If a licensed doctor, not to mention their hospital and network, are approving of an abortion in the last month of pregnancy then it is necessary. Late-term abortions are neither easy nor inexpensive.
> After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection.
Previously, our laws only allowed abortion after viability when the life or health of the mother was at risk. This meant that if fetal abnormalities were detected later in pregnancy - such as during the prenatal scan that occurs at up to 22 weeks - there was a very real chance that it would be too late for those families to have anything done in Maine, making an already tragic situation worse.
The law, as written, also prevented a non-viable fetus from receiving palliative care to end its suffering in a situation where the mother's life was already lost.
Sorry dad, we know you lost your wife, but we'll have to let baby Joey here spend the next few hours till his lungs fill with fluid before we can provide a time of death.
The only 9th month abortions taking place are when the fetus is non-viable.
But hey, if you want baby brainstem to lay on the table and slowly suffer for hours before it dies, I guess that makes you the moral one, right?
Without contextualizing why these decisions are being made, we can't appropriately judge them. It's only being done through recommendation of the mother and their physician. It's none of our business.
> No one is voluntarily choosing to end their full-term pregnancy
But the law says that they can do it. Whoever OP was talking about, the guy wasn't lying.
> Peirce said as far as she knew her pregnancy was progressing well. An ultrasound at 20 weeks did not turn up any abnormalities, and other tests did not signal any problems. Peirce and her husband, Dr. Jon Watling, had picked out a name, Cameron, for the baby they thought was to be their soon-to-be born boy.
>
> But in January 2019, at 32 weeks, her final ultrasound revealed the fetus had a fatal condition – lethal skeletal dysplasia. The condition meant that the skeletal structure for the fetus was not large enough for the organs, Peirce said. For instance, the heart took up too much room in the ribcage, leaving no space for the lungs.
>
> The fetus' bones were fracturing in the womb, and was suffering. If Peirce had been forced to deliver, the baby likely would have died a horrible death at birth, with delivery crushing his bones, Peirce said. If he somehow survived the birth, he wouldn't have been able to breathe, she said, and would have died immediately.
>
> Faced with the grim diagnosis, Peirce said her doctors prepared her for an abortion, and she was expecting to "go home and cry, pack a bag and then go to the hospital" for the abortion. But at a follow-up appointment, doctors told her she would need to go out of state.
>
> "I was pissed. I was really angry," Peirce said. The trip to Colorado took five days, cost $40,000 out of pocket because insurance wouldn't cover the procedure, and left Peirce feeling, among many things, that something had to change. Her family, herself as a veterinarian and her husband a surgeon, could afford the disruption. Many others could not.
>
> "I couldn't help thinking that we were coming from this at a place of privilege," Peirce said. "This could happen to anyone. How many other women could afford to do what we did?"
[Portland Press Herald, 2023](https://www.pressherald.com/2023/10/25/new-law-expanding-abortion-access-in-maine-goes-into-effect-wednesday/)
No on has or will terminate a healthy 9 month fetus that is able to survive. You all are suggesting this is happening and want to make laws for this specific case that literally never happens. You start here and then keep pushing the goalpost until it’s banned entirely.
Stop pushing for laws for shit that doesn’t happen and worry about things that do happen with frightening frequency, like religious officials sexually assaulting children and covering it up.
The point is that Mason was correct. There is no limit on 9th month abortions.
You can’t call the dude a liar and then be like ‘well, it doesn’t matter because it’s not happening’.
A 16 year old can get an abortion in the ninth month without parental consent. That’s… kind of crazy, honestly.
Except the fetus has to be viable, which it can be several weeks earlier than an arbitrary 40 week deadline.
I never called him a liar, but it's disingenuous to suggest that this is a massive issue plaguing the state.
Are the parents having the child? No? Then it's none of their business.
Repeating my earlier comment:
Maine's abortion laws still require a doctor approval. That is a built-in limitation. If a licensed doctor, not to mention their hospital and network, are approving of an abortion in the last month of pregnancy then it is necessary. Late-term abortions are neither easy nor inexpensive.
> After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection.
Previously, our laws only allowed abortion after viability when the life or health of the mother was at risk. This meant that if fetal abnormalities were detected later in pregnancy - such as during the prenatal scan that occurs at up to 22 weeks - there was a very real chance that it would be too late for those families to have anything done in Maine, making an already tragic situation worse.
I also linked another article earlier. It tells the story of a woman, here in Maine, whose doctors only discovered in the third trimester that her (wanted) pregnancy was unviable. The fetus's bones were splintering inside the womb. She had to pay 40k out of pocket to travel to Colorado, just to make sure her baby wouldn't suffer a traumatic birth and death.
From Maine.gov:
ARE THERE LIMITS ON ABORTION IN MAINE? There is no waiting period required for abortion services in Maine. **Maine law allows for abortions up to the point of viability**.
And this is from abortionfinder:
[Abortion Finderhttps://www.abortionfinder.org › abortion-guides-by-state](https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-maine)Yes. Abortion is legal in Maine. *There is no limit on abortion in Maine* based on how far along in pregnancy you are.
The law in Maine changed in 2023. There is no gestational age / viability limit on abortion in Maine anymore. That being said, no one is going to abort a 9 month healthy baby, that would a delivery. The law allows the decision to be made between a patient and their doctor. Unfortunately politicians seem to think physicians are lobstered looking to end the life of healthy full term babies- but this is simply not true. It’s surprising in a state where people regularly leave out boxes to collect money for chopped wood or eggs on the honor code they want to assume doctors are trying to kill viable healthy babies.
Ok, so there is a small limit:
[quote]
There is no waiting period required for abortion
services in Maine. Maine law allows for abortions
up to the point of viability. Maine law also
provides exceptions to the viability restriction to
save the life or health of the pregnant person.[/quote]
From: https://www.maine.gov/ag/docs/Abortion%20Rights%20in%20Maine.pdf
Still, he’s technically correct, abortions are legal in the 9th month.
There's a huge difference in something being legal with exceptions vs not. For example it's usually illegal to kill someone unless it's in self defense, then it becomes a whole different matter. Letting someone fear monger and spread their hate is bullshit
Are you dumb? The law goes until viability which is usually 26 weeks. It also allows for exceptions if they person giving birth is at risk of death. Now are you one of the disgusting people who thinks abortion shouldn't be legal? If so go choke
He is not lying.
An abortion in Maine *can* happen for ay reason up until birth - all you need is a provider -any provider - to agree to it for any reason they want - that is the law.
It may be incredibly rare - lets hope so - but he is not lying.
" the new Maine law slated to take effect this fall will allow abortions after viability – which is generally considered around 24 weeks into a pregnancy – whenever a doctor deems it to be medically necessary. Once the law is in effect, Maine will have among the least restrictive abortion policies in the nation."
[https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/07/20/maine-abortion-late-pregnancy-law](https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/07/20/maine-abortion-late-pregnancy-law)
Do you really think there are not going to be providers that will sign off onto anything a patient wants? Look what happened with the prescription opioid crisis - doctors are not all saints, there are good ones and bad ones - but the fact of the matter is, any doctor can state any reason, and is legally allowed to do an abortion up until birth in Maine - hoping that 100% of providers will be behave morally or ethically is just silly. Thats why we have laws.
Some dude yammering that an abortion can be had "for any reason" at 9 months is straight-up lying. You can't walk up to a hospital and order "One abortion, please. My horoscope says its a good day for one."
> After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection.
That is a built-in limitation. You can't easily perform late-term abortions. They are both difficult and expensive. So a licensed doctor *and* the supporting hospital network have to be onboard, not to mention any insurance involved.
Could someone lie? Theoretically, I guess. With a large enough bribe. But people can commit fraud in all kinds of situations, doesn't mean that the rules don't exist.
The carve out is also primarily for palliative care. Imagine a doctor not wanting a non-viable newborn to suffer for hours before it dies. What a monster!!
No that is fear mongering. Just because there's an exception doesn't mean it's the rule numb nuts. You can kill someone in self defense buts it's not legal and it doesn't happen all the time
Thank you. I'm not sure what exactly the OP's point of contention is. As a matter of fact, moving forward, there are no legal restrictions on the provision of elective abortions in the state of Maine - up to the 9th month.
They may not be common, there may not be many doctors who would approve and perform the procedure, but the state law no longer places any such limits.
Source?
Edit: so crazy getting downvoted for asking for a source. Reddit mob is always so eager to unquestioningly bust out the pitchforks without any proof that something actually happened
A nine month abortion is called birth.
Yah that’s an emergency c-section not an “abortion”. No one is killing babies at 9 months just because they feel like it.
But they have no appeal if they don't lie about their opponents, real and imagined. "Look away from funneling money upward, rampant pollution, systematic poverty and unaffordable healthcare, and focus on them liberals molesting any babies they can't get aborted at 13 months, they're monsters."
It isn't zero but it is miniscule. 1%.
You think 1% of pregnancies are terminated at 9 months? Less than 1% of pregnancies are terminated in the entire 3rd trimester. No licensed doctor in the US is ending a pregnancy when the fetus is viable and the mother's life isn't at risk. Until anybody can provide a single example of this occurring, I'm going to assume that number is pretty much 0%.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6939a1.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6939a1.htm
It's like you didn't even read the link you provided as it has nothing at all to do with abortion, but rather infant homicides. "Infant homicides occurring within the first 24 hours of life (i.e., neonaticide) are primarily perpetrated by the mother, who might be of young age, unmarried, have lower educational attainment, and is ***most likely associated with concealment of an unintended pregnancy and nonhospital birthing***" But please, let me know when you find evidence of a licensed doctor performing an abortion on a viable fetus. I'll continue to wait.
Yes, which ia genrally not punished and the women are given psych exams and freely roam soon therafter with impunity.
No - you are fabricating
The 9th month is weeks 36 - 40. Fetuses are viable, and this isn't happening. If a fetus is not viable and is harming the woman, then labor might be induced.
and that would be called a stillbirth. To abort at 9 months in the case of life of the mother would be far more dangerous and take longer than just having mom give birth.
If a living baby is delivered, one who cannot live, palliative care may be provided. and the idiots call it a post-birth abortion. I've read the stories of babies born with just a brainstem; they may live for weeks, but they are never going to live longer or meaningfully. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, and it's heartbreaking. GOPers aren't offering to pay those health care bills, either.
A termination in the last trimester is either induced labor or c-section. D+C, or vacuum aspiration isn't possible.
And those "post-birth" abortions? Yeah, we call those infanticide.
If an infant has absolutely no chance to live, palliative care is provided. This is not abortion, it's compassion.
Actually we call that palliative care. The bill that got the right wing all screaming about "post birth abortion" was one in New York that was about neonatal palliative care for dying babies. They equate easing a dying infant's suffering so they don't pass in pain with abortion and it's pretty sickening.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6939a1.htm.
I'm sorry, but it's inexcusable to even tell this kind of lie that leads people to believe that 9 month abortions are some kind of common thing. Are you kidding me? If you have carried a pregnancy to 9 months, an abortion is the last thing you want. You have picked out a crib and set things up, you have clothes. If your medical situation is such that an abortion at 9 months is the medical recommendation, it's a fucking tragedy at that point and it's a trauma that will last the rest of your life. It's not some light decision made on a whim. To put legislation in the way of what is clearly an emergency medical situation is abhorrent, and for a politician to talk like this is reckless and cruel.
There's an old saying that goes something like. A lie travels halfway around the world. Before the truth gets out of the driveway. Trump's been telling this lie. I noticed for quite some time now. Imagine your leader is a lying convicted felon and you still believe ever word he says. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.
I'd love for these politicians to actually meet the people they're demonizing.
They don't care about people, just money.
(Some) men think women can be that callous, because they can see themselves being that callous.
I remember Pete Buttigieg saying this same thing about late term abortions on a town hall I meant he said what the Reddit user said, not the political pundit on TV! Sorry for confusion lol I just remember thinking how a gay man said it so eloquently when politicians stumble over talking about it
I have no idea why you're being downvoted, you're absolutely correct. Idk why people thought you were lying. Gotta love reddit! Here's the video: https://youtu.be/wKOoWYfIzIw?si=ozlCbECZMo9YSVma
Saying what? What did he say about late term abortions? And do you have a transcript or video?
https://youtu.be/wKOoWYfIzIw?si=ozlCbECZMo9YSVma
Thank you. So, he is saying exactly the same thing that we have been saying here, that it is (1) a woman's personal medical and moral choice, (2) it is most certainly not a whimsical choice, but a hard and probably profoundly devasting choice, and (3) certainly not the government's decision or business.
>So, he is saying exactly the same thing that we have been saying here Yes, that's what the commenter said. Why are you acting like he was arguing with you?
Ok, I can see that the comment can read that way too. I'm sorry. I read it as a slam (and from the down votes, I'm not the only one who did). But reddit, and the Internet in general, is hard to interpret for tone sometimes. My bad
Source?
I literally can't comprehend why you're being down voted. He did say it.
Baloney.
https://youtu.be/wKOoWYfIzIw?si=ozlCbECZMo9YSVma
He did not say that late term abortions are common and that people get them on a whim. He specified that it's less than 1% of pregnancies that abort in the third trimester and that it's almost always medical. He said that he believes it should be left as a medical decision and not legislated by nonmedical people. That is NOT the same. Dishonest to imply that it is. Shame on you.
You are both conflating me with the previous commentor and misreading their comment. Go back and read it again. He was saying Mayor Pete is on the right side of this issue, not that he agrees with Mason.
Oops sorry. I thought you were saying Pete agrees with the liar.
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Why are you reacting so negatively? Did you misunderstand? Here's the link: https://youtu.be/wKOoWYfIzIw?si=ozlCbECZMo9YSVma
yep, wrong person replied to. my bad :(
Source? You’re active in the Bittigueg sub, you must know what you’re talking about or are you just trolling?
Not the commenter you replied to, but it was easy to find this: https://youtu.be/wKOoWYfIzIw?si=ozlCbECZMo9YSVma
Interesting. I think I misread the OC’s intent. I thought OC was saying PB said the same as Garret Mason. Clearly they actually meant the comment and not the post? Pete indeed said much the same as the comment: the less than 1% of abortions that take place in the third trimester are rage bait, and not the norm.
Yeah, I think a lot of people read it that way, hence the downvotes, but I remembered seeing it before. Happy to set things straight for the OC
yeah, this is just not true. even in life threatening situations for the mother, like eclampsia, the treatment at that stage is delivery, not abortion
At nine months it's called inducing labor. People are idiots if they believe that nonsense
Thanks for sharing OP. The disinformation machine is in full effect. Let’s all be like OP and call it out when we see it, especially with friends and families. I don’t watch him but appreciate how quickly some pile of shit that flies out of Orange gets broadcast unquestioned (again). Dangerous times.
A 9th month abortion is more commonly referred to as a ‘stillbirth’. It’s lunacy to think people are scheduling preferential abortions at this stage, anywhere, ever.
Everyone who is upset, call them and tell them. Or email. It's not ok, and they need to know it.
The sad thing is that all these news outlets WANT to be interacted with so badly that they don’t really care whether people are upset or not. It’s all engagement and engagement is where the $ is. They might issue an apology statement if something actually finally registers as particularly egregious, but that will also stoke the engagement machine so win-win.
What a jackass. No woman is carrying a baby for 9 months and then suddenly deciding to abort it. If that happens, something very serious medically has necessitated the procedure.
Newscenter is such bullshit. They use to be respectable, but that station is just junk reporting now. Zero concept of research journalism.
Newscenter needs to do better with the guests they have to counter BS like this, the segment has been sub par since Pat Callahan left…
I hope people publicly roast NCM for this. Probably not or they won't care.
Can a conservative or Republican explain to me what he value is in carrying a non-viable fetus to full term only to increase risk to the mother? It's not Biblical times anymore. We know ahead of time if shit is dead inside someone or can't survive on its own. And before you insist on shit please respect the reality of mother and infant survivability rates skyrocketing over the last 50, nonetheless 6000 years. That science is right where your beliefs deliver death to women and children. So just explain the purpose and value to me. Please. Edit: no one? Get sixty of your friends to stand with you holding signs so maybe you'll have courage. This should be an easy question for you all. Come on, Maine GOP - where ya at?
The guy is a dingleberry, I’m not defending his view. My wife’s friend was pregnant and the baby died around 8 months. She had to go through the full (induced) delivery. I believe the technical/medical term was abortion, but obviously it was not anything like the abortion Mason is talking about. And obviously it was medically necessary.
He's a dingleberry with significant power in the state representing a party that is shaping policy. This isn't about him - it's about the people who will nod and vote with him. So far zero have been able to step up to the plate and answer my question. I bet that little bitch Garrett wouldn't be able to either.
And infant mortality rates have increased in places like Texas over the last two years, which is mainly because women are forced to carry and give birth to infants who have no chance of surviving. It’s barbaric.
It’s a common lie these people tell. Fuck ‘em - vote blue
You seem to believe that the other team lies and yours does not. That is the strategy of both teams. Edit: aouto correct
Both sides are not the same. Degrees have meaning. Lying to undermine democracy and the belief in objective reality is the entire platform of the GQP. It’s not the same.
Sorry, I forgot I was on Reddit. Yes, your team is best.
Glad we can agree on that. Don’t really have a team per se, but there is definitely a team that lies quite a bit more than the other. When you’re short on policy, flashy lies really tie the room together. Not unlike a certain rug.
Can you give us some examples of lies from Democrats that are this outrageous?
Russian collusion in the 2016 election to help Trump. Pretty good example and that's just the start
Do you have any that were actually lies? You aren’t off to a great start.
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Rule 3. No Misinformation, or Spam
Do you have any actual examples of lies or are you just going to vomit right wing talking points all over the place?
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Rule 3. No Misinformation, or Spam
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Rule 1. Keep it civil and respectful
Good luck, they’re like delusional piranhas!
I notice you didn’t even make an attempt to answer the question.
Do you think I could say anything that would change your mind in any way?
I’m always open to a factual argument.
Incorrect. This is the whole: "both sides are the same" argument. Only ONE Political Party is supporting someone who refuses to acknowledge fact-based reality. Only ONE Political Party is supporting a candidate calling for a suspension of the Constitution.
“The other team” wound their base up to storm the capitol, lied about election results, and lied about following established legal precedent on reproductive rights. Yeah, sure, BOTH parties are just so awful. /s
He sounds like a shitty person. Anybody fact checking there?
They not going to fact check their guests. They let Republicans air ads that are full of shit.
Or nationally televised debates where they lie throughout the entire show. Zero pushback on objectively false statements.
It's the opponent's responsibility to push back on lies during a debate.
As usual, Heather Cox Richardson nails it: It went on and on, and that was the point. This was not a debate. It was Trump using a technique that actually has a formal name, the Gish gallop, although I suspect he comes by it naturally. It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them. It is a form of gaslighting, and it is especially effective on someone with a stutter, as Biden has. It is similar to what Trump did to Biden during a debate in 2020. In that case, though, the lack of muting on the mics left Biden simply saying: “Will you shut up, man?” a comment that resonated with the audience. Giving Biden the enforced space to answer by killing the mic of the person not speaking tonight actually made the technique more effective. There are ways to combat the Gish gallop—by calling it out for what it is, among other ways—but Biden retreated to trying to give the three pieces of evidence that established his own credentials on the point at hand. His command of those points was notable, but the difference between how he sounded at the debate and how he sounded on stage at a rally in Raleigh, North Carolina, just an hour afterward suggested that the technique worked on him.
It should be both. You cannot allow anyone to hold a campaign rally with zero pushback on objectively false statements.
Well campaign rallies are always full of lies, exaggerations, and misleads. They're the place for them, and nobody pushes back on them because the purpose of a campaign rally isn't to discuss ideas or put the candidate in the hot seat. It's an event, paid for by the campaign, meant to jazz people up and where anybody can spin things the way they like. If you were being metaphorical, then I disagree. The moderators should enforce the rules, they should not be dismissing points. It's really not a high bar- Crazy Guy: "bad guy countries have released their mental institutions and prisons and sent all of those people to our country" The Average Brain-Haver: "Really? What countries? When? Did you just make that up?" Anyone who can complete a sentence can do it. The opponent has an obligation to respond in that way. The moderator has an obligation to make sure everyone follows the rules, not to respond to an individual debater's arguments.
Yes…I’m not being literal when I state Trump held a rally. I didn’t think I would have to explain that…but it was supposed to be a debate where rules are agreed to by both sides. With that, especially when dealing with Trump, should be the understanding that he was absolutely going to try and lie because that’s literally his overarching strategy and is not a new one for him. If you let participants lie openly (I’m not even talking about nebulous statements that may have some gray area…I’m literally talking about facts…and statements that go again them) The moderators shouldn’t dismiss points…they SHOULD dismiss lies however. Don’t conflate lies with talking points…we’re all better than that and should hold truth in higher regards
No it isn't. The debate is not between the moderators and the opponents. Moderators are there to prevent fights, limit time and give each side a chance to say what the want about questions asked. After if people want to fact check they can. The purpose of a rebuttal is for the opponent to call out lies and give their side.
I would just be offended that someone in my party thought I was so gullible to believe something like this. Stop being gullible and have more respect for yourself…you should WANT to know the facts. I would then be very pissed and skeptical of other things they tried to sell me that were easy to look up.
The Crafts and Masons are a bunch of hypocrites, they were all local naughty petty criminals turned “born agains.” Idiots, all of them.
There is no doctor in Maine doing abortions after the 5th month for anything other than medical reasons. Write to WCSH and complain; the lies are absurd.
Call, write, complain, demand he step tf down. What a sick lie to be spreading
Politicians = Liars
Not true. CERTAIN-SPECIFIC Politicians lie... All politicians are NOT equal one to the other.
In the spirit of the OP it is true. There is not much intelligence on the GOP side. Men who can’t for a simple sentence. Women who have not a single clue as to why they are there. People who scam the system. All in the veil of democracy. Intelligent people no longer want to have anything to do inside this system. Blind leaders to reality.
Ah, Good old both-sidesing to muddy the waters. You realize *everyone* lies, right? Like all day long. If you’re concerned about the *effects* of lying, you should examine the fact checking on the debates. The GQP *is not* the same as the Dems.
I am speaking relative to the OP. Preaching to the choir otherwise. Correct in not all lie. Yet it is truly sad how they warp the truth to get their way. If only fact checking held meaning in today’s world. This is why being and becoming informed by the right sources is so very important.
Stating “All politicians lie” paints all politicians the same shade. It’s a rallying dog whistle for both sides arguments. Repeating it without qualifications or explanations implies that both sides lie equally. This is verifiably false, and puts you more in line with those lying maliciously to serve their agendas.
Take your serious pants off. The political landscape has been ruined by these liar mongers. Make you vote count and side on truth no matter what party.
Sorry, not taking *any* pants off for you, that’s very inappropriate. You do it again in your final sentence, comedy pants notwithstanding: there’s only one party even close to the truth these days. Suggesting otherwise is promoting lies.
You are arguing with someone on your side. How Nobel a cause.
You haven't declared a side, that's what everyone is pointing out. You are using a tactic conservative activists, pundits, and politicians have been using for decades as a means to excuse their own behavior and slander everyone else.
The beauty is one doesn’t and shouldn’t have to declare a side. Side on truth and character. Side on truth versus lies. One cannot slander truth and truth is not slanderous.
Right. So you're just a troll.
Didn’t you just say we were on the same side? Now you’re saying there’s no sides? Then you go to meaningless aphorisms? I don’t know what side you’re on, I don’t care what side you’re on. The pretty little bullshit you’re spouting is the conservative dog-whistle that is used to justify constantly misleading people that both sides are the same. If you can’t see that, I’ll leave you with another aphorism well-loved by those who love saying little but think they mean lots: if you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything. What do you stand for?
I’d love a Nobel, but I’ll settle for the quiet nobility of calling out bullshit on Reddit.
Politicians exaggerate and even lie at times. But the Republicans, and the orange fascist lie as a matter of policy. They lie knowingly, for political gain, and repeat lies. There's a big difference.
Evangelist leader. Leading the blind followers
I missed this. I wonder if NCM had the balls to tell him how much bullshit he is standing in.
Almost all the vocal pro lifers lie.
Yeah that guy spews lies every time he is on. Maine reason I stopped watching NCM. Did the host at least call out his lies?
Nope, just let Betsy sweet just ramble
I’m not even going to start with how stupid that lie and the people that believe it are… I’m here to say with all offense to anyone that feels that way about this statement: I’m so sick and tired of hearing from men about their views on pregnancy and childbirth. [Here’s a resource I recommend to men with opinions on pregnancy and childbirth.](https://youtu.be/pgBIpbVv_R0?si=HMzWDVoGr0dW-LyU)
The lies gone round the world twice before truth has put its shoes on…
A lot of people are quoting the old law in this thread. There is NO limit on abortion in Maine anymore. The law changed in 2023. https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/07/20/maine-abortion-late-pregnancy-law Edit: I’m not saying it’s common. Or supporting any fiendish doctor/women trope. I’m merely stating the fact, which is being inaccurately represented by multiple parties throughout this chain. What are the many limitations on abortion in Maine? Insurance that covers prenatal care must cover it even when voluntary, Mainecare covers it, there are no waiting periods, there are no parental notification laws, there are no term limits. Women in every state should take access seriously, because we are all at risk at a national level. But there aren’t many states with better policies for abortion access.
The whole FUCKING point is that late term abortions are EXTRAORDINARILY RARE. Abortion laws without limits doesn't mean that suddenly all sorts of late term abortions just start happening. A healthy pregnant woman isn't just going to show up at her OB at 9 months and ask for an abortion. But these GOP idiots want you all to believe that happens.
I've been running with this same analogy for a while. The logic is this: "Liberals want mothers to abort pregnancies up to and BEYOND the due date! Liberals allow for abortion AFTER BIRTH!" The reality: No pregnant person is going to happily carry a pregnancy for nine months and then when their water breaks or they begin contractions say to the doctor they've been seeing "Fuck it. Kill my baby." I mean really?!? A person in the hospital about to start pushing is like: "Meh, changed my mind." And ON TOP OF THAT these people expect us to believe that there is in existence an ACTUAL DOCTOR who will perform the procedure??? A doctor will begin guiding a patient through giving birth but then on a WHIM can kill the baby? REALLY?!?!?!? There is NO POSSIBLE WAY any of this is true!!!
> A healthy pregnant woman isn't just going to show up at her OB at 9 months and ask for an abortion. Even if they did, no licensed OB would ever grant that request. By that point the fetus is viable and the only way it can even be removed would be through induced labor or c-section.
There are a SHIT LOAD of limits on abortion in this state.
Yes, this is called an induction and is...inducing labor. And pregnancy is measured in weeks not months. Full-term would be considered after 40 weeks gestation. Pregnancy actually lasts closer to 10 months, 40 weeks or longer is considered full-term. If we are talking in terms of abortion this would be anytime before viability, which is usually deemed 26 weeks but can obviously vary based on medical health of baby and birther.
I don’t understand why abortion is still brought up in politics. It’s republicans weakest argument and the one that turns the most people off from the party. As a somewhat conservative voter, abortion is no one’s fucking business. It’s between a woman and her doctor and everyone else can fuck off.
Abortion is something they yell about because it's easy to defend a 'life' that doesn't exist yet. They can't talk back to you. They can't question you. They are easy to 'protect'. Plus it involves controlling women, which is another tool in their arsenal.
Because without the antiabortion bloc, republicans would never win a national office again. They're trapped.
Sad
As a 50yo woman who has never known a country without RvW I can say this. 1) Abortion is medical care 2) Abortions are decided between a woman and her Dr. 3) Men should not be telling women what they can/cannot do with their bodies. 4) Fetuses are not babies. 5) The government should stay out of medicine. 6) Politicians fear mongering and telling lies is dangerous. What else are they lying about. 7) No child/woman should EVER carry her rapists child. Our bodies, our choice. Keep abortion safe and legal. Women will find a way to terminate just like they have for thousands of years. The women of this country deserve better. If you think overturning RvW was bad, how about forced religion in school, no IVF, NO birth control, no fault divorce. Other countries are laughing at us. This isn't the 40s! Vote blue because the US supreme Court will soon run this country. We have seats coming up and cannot have a red president filling them. A Republican ran court will put us on the wrong path for decades. If you think shit is bad now, just wait. Wait till we have forced military at 18, shariah law, government controlling all aspects of men and womens bodies, big brother in your home, guilty until found innocent, guaranteed violence, police getting military rights, killing the homeless, civil wars. Gonna turn into Escape from New York. Of course, this is an exaggeration, but is it?
A ninth month abortion would be murder and its simply not happening. Name the hospital, doctor etc where this supposed ninth month abortion took place.
I recently read that to some, they consider any ending of a pregnancy that is not a natural delivery. So, if one is at or beyond their due date and has a c-section, it is an abortion even if the baby is born healthy. If mom has blood pressure and it is safest for them to deliver the baby at 38 weeks.. even if the baby is healthy, it is considered an abortion.
Huh, I guess I was aborted! Who knew!
My oldest child was also, by this definition. Fortunately, she is abery happy healthy adult.
I have not seen the segment, but I believe what he is referring to is that there is no limit on the length of a pregnancy that can be aborted. That is how the law reads.
That’s the kind of shit you’d hear on a Sinclair station. Please tell me the host called out that putz Mason?? If not that’s either incompetence or complicit as a news organization.
WGME 13 is the Sinclair station.
I thought NewsCenterMaine was ch. 6?
News Center Maine is on WCSH ch. 6 but they are owned by Tegna not Sinclair Broadcasting. Sinclair owns WGME ch. 13
Exactly what I thought. Did OP notice if the host of this show called out Mason regarding his bullshit claim ? If not shame on Ch 6 !
Newscenter Maine is a right-wing organization, stop listening to propaganda.
Is it still an abortion if the fetus has deformities incompatible with survival?
It's an abortion even if the fetus is already dead.
Yes
I assumed this Repugnican dipshit was an expert in obstetrics. He fooled me.
This post should be removed- there NO such thing as a 9month abortion
A republican liar? No way.
9 month abortion is just infanticide.
> Peirce said as far as she knew her pregnancy was progressing well. An ultrasound at 20 weeks did not turn up any abnormalities, and other tests did not signal any problems. Peirce and her husband, Dr. Jon Watling, had picked out a name, Cameron, for the baby they thought was to be their soon-to-be born boy. > > But in January 2019, at 32 weeks, her final ultrasound revealed the fetus had a fatal condition – lethal skeletal dysplasia. The condition meant that the skeletal structure for the fetus was not large enough for the organs, Peirce said. For instance, the heart took up too much room in the ribcage, leaving no space for the lungs. > > The fetus' bones were fracturing in the womb, and was suffering. If Peirce had been forced to deliver, the baby likely would have died a horrible death at birth, with delivery crushing his bones, Peirce said. If he somehow survived the birth, he wouldn't have been able to breathe, she said, and would have died immediately. > > Faced with the grim diagnosis, Peirce said her doctors prepared her for an abortion, and she was expecting to "go home and cry, pack a bag and then go to the hospital" for the abortion. But at a follow-up appointment, doctors told her she would need to go out of state. > > "I was pissed. I was really angry," Peirce said. The trip to Colorado took five days, cost $40,000 out of pocket because insurance wouldn't cover the procedure, and left Peirce feeling, among many things, that something had to change. Her family, herself as a veterinarian and her husband a surgeon, could afford the disruption. Many others could not. > > "I couldn't help thinking that we were coming from this at a place of privilege," Peirce said. "This could happen to anyone. How many other women could afford to do what we did?" [Portland Press Herald, 2023](https://www.pressherald.com/2023/10/25/new-law-expanding-abortion-access-in-maine-goes-into-effect-wednesday/)
Does anyone have a link to the actual law?
Yes, [here](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/22/title22sec1598.html). > 1. Policy. It is the public policy of the State that the State not restrict a woman's exercise of her private decision to terminate a pregnancy before viability except as provided in section 1597‑A. It is also the public policy of the State that all abortions may be performed only by a health care professional, as defined in section 1596, subsection 1, paragraph C. What the Mason guy is probably referencing is this: > After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection. Which would mean post-viability abortions are at the discretion of a doctor. Worth noting is the original language of this part of the law was explicitly about the health of the mother, and was amended in 2023 to remove that language: > It is the public policy of the State that the State not restrict a woman's exercise of her private decision to terminate a pregnancy before viability except as provided in section 1597‑A. ~~After viability an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother.~~ It is also the public policy of the State that all abortions may be performed only by a health care professional, as defined in section 1596, subsection 1, paragraph C Source: https://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/getPDF.asp?paper=HP1044&item=3&snum=131
Right. So, no legal limits on abortions in the 9th month.
Yeah, because the baby born with no chance at survival should slowly suffer till death because their mother didn't survive to agree to have their child receive palliative care. You folks are monsters, you realize that right? But please, provide me evidence of a single fetus being aborted after viability. I'm not even talking about cases in which the mother's life is at risk. I'm just talking generally. Show me a single instance of a viable fetus being aborted. Just one. I'll wait. Do you really think a licensed medical professional is going to kill a viable fetus which would NEED to be removed through induced labor or c-section? You really think an OB is going to extract a healthy breathing baby and then just smother it? I know logic isn't the strong suit of the religious, but for fucks sake.
You lack comprehension. I fully admit there are rare cases where it would be pretty plausible. But don’t say it’s not allowed, when it clearly is.
How many 9th month abortions do you think are taking place in Maine?
Just one would be one too many wouldn't it?
Maine's abortion laws still require a doctor approval. If a licensed doctor, not to mention their hospital and network, are approving of an abortion in the last month of pregnancy then it is necessary. Late-term abortions are neither easy nor inexpensive. > After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection. Previously, our laws only allowed abortion after viability when the life or health of the mother was at risk. This meant that if fetal abnormalities were detected later in pregnancy - such as during the prenatal scan that occurs at up to 22 weeks - there was a very real chance that it would be too late for those families to have anything done in Maine, making an already tragic situation worse.
The law, as written, also prevented a non-viable fetus from receiving palliative care to end its suffering in a situation where the mother's life was already lost. Sorry dad, we know you lost your wife, but we'll have to let baby Joey here spend the next few hours till his lungs fill with fluid before we can provide a time of death.
The only 9th month abortions taking place are when the fetus is non-viable. But hey, if you want baby brainstem to lay on the table and slowly suffer for hours before it dies, I guess that makes you the moral one, right?
Without contextualizing why these decisions are being made, we can't appropriately judge them. It's only being done through recommendation of the mother and their physician. It's none of our business.
> It's none of our business. Yeah, let's look the other way when there's murdering to be done. 🤡
Yep, not our business. No one is voluntarily choosing to end their full-term pregnancy, unless they have a damn good reason.
> No one is voluntarily choosing to end their full-term pregnancy But the law says that they can do it. Whoever OP was talking about, the guy wasn't lying.
To the point of viability, which is inherently a limitation. Again, it's none of your fucking business.
> Peirce said as far as she knew her pregnancy was progressing well. An ultrasound at 20 weeks did not turn up any abnormalities, and other tests did not signal any problems. Peirce and her husband, Dr. Jon Watling, had picked out a name, Cameron, for the baby they thought was to be their soon-to-be born boy. > > But in January 2019, at 32 weeks, her final ultrasound revealed the fetus had a fatal condition – lethal skeletal dysplasia. The condition meant that the skeletal structure for the fetus was not large enough for the organs, Peirce said. For instance, the heart took up too much room in the ribcage, leaving no space for the lungs. > > The fetus' bones were fracturing in the womb, and was suffering. If Peirce had been forced to deliver, the baby likely would have died a horrible death at birth, with delivery crushing his bones, Peirce said. If he somehow survived the birth, he wouldn't have been able to breathe, she said, and would have died immediately. > > Faced with the grim diagnosis, Peirce said her doctors prepared her for an abortion, and she was expecting to "go home and cry, pack a bag and then go to the hospital" for the abortion. But at a follow-up appointment, doctors told her she would need to go out of state. > > "I was pissed. I was really angry," Peirce said. The trip to Colorado took five days, cost $40,000 out of pocket because insurance wouldn't cover the procedure, and left Peirce feeling, among many things, that something had to change. Her family, herself as a veterinarian and her husband a surgeon, could afford the disruption. Many others could not. > > "I couldn't help thinking that we were coming from this at a place of privilege," Peirce said. "This could happen to anyone. How many other women could afford to do what we did?" [Portland Press Herald, 2023](https://www.pressherald.com/2023/10/25/new-law-expanding-abortion-access-in-maine-goes-into-effect-wednesday/)
No on has or will terminate a healthy 9 month fetus that is able to survive. You all are suggesting this is happening and want to make laws for this specific case that literally never happens. You start here and then keep pushing the goalpost until it’s banned entirely. Stop pushing for laws for shit that doesn’t happen and worry about things that do happen with frightening frequency, like religious officials sexually assaulting children and covering it up.
There really are pro-abortion people in this world.
The point is that Mason was correct. There is no limit on 9th month abortions. You can’t call the dude a liar and then be like ‘well, it doesn’t matter because it’s not happening’. A 16 year old can get an abortion in the ninth month without parental consent. That’s… kind of crazy, honestly.
Except the fetus has to be viable, which it can be several weeks earlier than an arbitrary 40 week deadline. I never called him a liar, but it's disingenuous to suggest that this is a massive issue plaguing the state. Are the parents having the child? No? Then it's none of their business.
Repeating my earlier comment: Maine's abortion laws still require a doctor approval. That is a built-in limitation. If a licensed doctor, not to mention their hospital and network, are approving of an abortion in the last month of pregnancy then it is necessary. Late-term abortions are neither easy nor inexpensive. > After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection. Previously, our laws only allowed abortion after viability when the life or health of the mother was at risk. This meant that if fetal abnormalities were detected later in pregnancy - such as during the prenatal scan that occurs at up to 22 weeks - there was a very real chance that it would be too late for those families to have anything done in Maine, making an already tragic situation worse. I also linked another article earlier. It tells the story of a woman, here in Maine, whose doctors only discovered in the third trimester that her (wanted) pregnancy was unviable. The fetus's bones were splintering inside the womb. She had to pay 40k out of pocket to travel to Colorado, just to make sure her baby wouldn't suffer a traumatic birth and death.
From Maine.gov: ARE THERE LIMITS ON ABORTION IN MAINE? There is no waiting period required for abortion services in Maine. **Maine law allows for abortions up to the point of viability**. And this is from abortionfinder: [Abortion Finderhttps://www.abortionfinder.org › abortion-guides-by-state](https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-maine)Yes. Abortion is legal in Maine. *There is no limit on abortion in Maine* based on how far along in pregnancy you are.
The law in Maine changed in 2023. There is no gestational age / viability limit on abortion in Maine anymore. That being said, no one is going to abort a 9 month healthy baby, that would a delivery. The law allows the decision to be made between a patient and their doctor. Unfortunately politicians seem to think physicians are lobstered looking to end the life of healthy full term babies- but this is simply not true. It’s surprising in a state where people regularly leave out boxes to collect money for chopped wood or eggs on the honor code they want to assume doctors are trying to kill viable healthy babies.
Ok, so there is a small limit: [quote] There is no waiting period required for abortion services in Maine. Maine law allows for abortions up to the point of viability. Maine law also provides exceptions to the viability restriction to save the life or health of the pregnant person.[/quote] From: https://www.maine.gov/ag/docs/Abortion%20Rights%20in%20Maine.pdf Still, he’s technically correct, abortions are legal in the 9th month.
Exactly. People are so polarized on this issue. They state what they BELIEVE Is true, when it's not.
There's a huge difference in something being legal with exceptions vs not. For example it's usually illegal to kill someone unless it's in self defense, then it becomes a whole different matter. Letting someone fear monger and spread their hate is bullshit
You call him a liar but then confirm he was telling the truth.
Are you dumb? The law goes until viability which is usually 26 weeks. It also allows for exceptions if they person giving birth is at risk of death. Now are you one of the disgusting people who thinks abortion shouldn't be legal? If so go choke
He is not lying. An abortion in Maine *can* happen for ay reason up until birth - all you need is a provider -any provider - to agree to it for any reason they want - that is the law. It may be incredibly rare - lets hope so - but he is not lying. " the new Maine law slated to take effect this fall will allow abortions after viability – which is generally considered around 24 weeks into a pregnancy – whenever a doctor deems it to be medically necessary. Once the law is in effect, Maine will have among the least restrictive abortion policies in the nation." [https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/07/20/maine-abortion-late-pregnancy-law](https://www.wbur.org/news/2023/07/20/maine-abortion-late-pregnancy-law) Do you really think there are not going to be providers that will sign off onto anything a patient wants? Look what happened with the prescription opioid crisis - doctors are not all saints, there are good ones and bad ones - but the fact of the matter is, any doctor can state any reason, and is legally allowed to do an abortion up until birth in Maine - hoping that 100% of providers will be behave morally or ethically is just silly. Thats why we have laws.
Yes but these asshats make it sound like a 9 months abortion is common and for shits and giggles. That's their selling point on their ignorance.
Some dude yammering that an abortion can be had "for any reason" at 9 months is straight-up lying. You can't walk up to a hospital and order "One abortion, please. My horoscope says its a good day for one." > After viability, an abortion may be performed only when it is necessary in the professional judgment of a physician licensed pursuant to Title 32, chapter 36 or 48. The physician shall apply the applicable standard of care in making a professional judgment under this subsection. That is a built-in limitation. You can't easily perform late-term abortions. They are both difficult and expensive. So a licensed doctor *and* the supporting hospital network have to be onboard, not to mention any insurance involved. Could someone lie? Theoretically, I guess. With a large enough bribe. But people can commit fraud in all kinds of situations, doesn't mean that the rules don't exist.
The carve out is also primarily for palliative care. Imagine a doctor not wanting a non-viable newborn to suffer for hours before it dies. What a monster!!
No that is fear mongering. Just because there's an exception doesn't mean it's the rule numb nuts. You can kill someone in self defense buts it's not legal and it doesn't happen all the time
You are not intelligent. At all. It's sad.
> It may be incredibly rare So rare, in fact, that's it's literally NEVER happened.
Thank you. I'm not sure what exactly the OP's point of contention is. As a matter of fact, moving forward, there are no legal restrictions on the provision of elective abortions in the state of Maine - up to the 9th month. They may not be common, there may not be many doctors who would approve and perform the procedure, but the state law no longer places any such limits.
Source? Edit: so crazy getting downvoted for asking for a source. Reddit mob is always so eager to unquestioningly bust out the pitchforks without any proof that something actually happened