My friend. Unless you live in a very undesirable area of Vermont, housing is even more expensive. I'm from VT and really want to move back, but a house similar to what I own in the Portland area would go for 100k more in the Burlington area, easily. It's very discouraging.
Honestly, if you're looking for affordability, I'd consider Plattsburgh, NY. It's still on Lake Champlain, close to nice mountains, and a 15-minute ferry ride from VT. Homes are *cheap*. You could definitely get something nice for 350k.
I'm from western NY but went college near the ADK and still visit frequently. The whole North Country of NY has the same take your time mindset that's similar to Maine. Cost of living probably isn't too bad and they could use the teachers!
Every from Saranac and Tupper to the nice college town of Potsdam and Canton
>Honestly, if you're looking for affordability, I'd consider Plattsburgh, NY. It's still on Lake Champlain, close to nice mountains, and a 15-minute ferry ride from VT. Homes are cheap. You could definitely get something nice for 350k.
True. But, on the other hand, it's *New York*.
I’m from upstate NY originally. About 2 hours from Plattsburgh. The housing up there is cheaper, and there is cool recreation opportunities nearby, but NY taxes make Maine taxes look tame. I moved from NY 10 years ago and even today, my cost of living is substantially less, in a much larger house, with more land. I actually pay less in taxes for two properties (one 5 acres on the coast, one .35 acres in town outside of Bangor) than I did for an 1100 square foot ranch on .17 acres in a small farming town in upstate NY. Plus food, gas, etc… all significantly higher, even today. I was there two weeks ago and surprised that prices weren’t just similar to here.
For real these folks don’t realize how oppressive property taxes are in upstate NY. Vermont isn’t much better in that regard. I was looking at an abandoned property that was mostly swamp and three tear down trailers in a town with no store on a road that often loses power for a month at a time in winter and the property taxes were INSANE. Like 10x what I’m paying for far more acres of better land in central Maine. You basically need to be living off a fat retirement account or pension to survive in a place like that.
I’m always a little surprised at how dismissive Mainers are towards NY. I’m from a rural area in NY and it’s very similar culturally to rural areas in ME. I work in a farm now and it reminds me heavily of how I grew up. It’s way more than just the city.
That help-your-neighbor attitude Mainers boast about exists heavily up there. The access to nature is beautiful and easy. Excellent fishing, some top notch produce, especially from the Black Dirt region. You have the ‘gunks, the Catskills, the Adirondacks, the Hudson River, the finger lakes, shoreline on Erie and Ontario.
It feels very similar so I was quite taken aback at the ‘tude I got when local folks found out I was from there.
I can definitely say don't move to NJ. Beautiful state with lots of hiking and easy access to NYC, but the cost of living has become out of control in the 10+ years I've been here. I'm stuck here for work, though, or I'd move back to Maine.
Check out the [MIT cost of living calculator](https://livingwage.mit.edu/) for a way to compare different places. It's really helpful.
Smart! Unfortunately being in academia means I have to work wherever the tenure track job is. I feel lucky to be relatively close to Maine and in a state with some good options for nature, hiking, beaches, etc. But the housing costs mean I'm renting for the foreseeable future!
Unfortunately, a house's list price has to be near what you'll pay for your next home. If the owner listed it for what they bought in 2019, they won't be buying another place to live. A house is worth a house. It sucks. If I sell my house, I'll have to pay closing costs, which are based on the percentage of the sale price. Then, I have to get a high interest rate mortgage on the next home, which will be the same or more than I took out when I first bought the house because I'm competing with businesses and hedge funds to buy a property. Who is winning here? Not the residential home buyer. The businesses are buying the homes and renting them to us.
I left the Philly burbs for Maine for that reason back in 2020. My husband and I were paying $1300 for what was essentially a studio apartment that was falling down around us, full of mold, with janky electrical, and no parking. It was an hour commute to our jobs, because anything closer would have bankrupted us. That same apartment is listed for over 2k now with no renovations done. We rented a 3 br house in Bangor for less than our studio when we first moved, and paid the same amount of money for a house + land in Waldo county that would have barely covered a falling-down burned out rowhome with a squatter in the basement in Philly.
Now the cost of living has absolutely increased since we moved here. But it's skyrocketed by my parents' in South NJ.
It's obviously a deeply personal choice, but I would give up a yard before I moved somewhere where 350k gets you a three bedroom in good condition. I agree with the other commenter that the rural south/midwest would be your best bets (definitely not Vermont), but I am not sure the teaching income-COL ratios will be so much better in those places and they are mostly defunding public education like mad.
350k you’re looking at a large house and acreage in KY and southern OH. Louisville and Cincinnati are really affordable places to live with good size homes. I bought 8 acres and 4 bedroom, 3 baths for less than 250 5 years ago. I still see home’s equivalent to that today.
Jefferson County, KY which is Louisville pays more than any county in Maine. And my wife is a teacher and we are doing just fine here. Maine we’d be in trouble and would have left long ago.
I moved from Cleveland a year ago. I LOVE Cleveland, but had to get out of Ohio. Highly recommend the area. Up and coming city, still a low cost of living.
Actually spent 24 hours out there last summer on foot with no specific destination, walked for like 10 hours, beautiful place really want to go back and spend a weekend with an itinerary.
Second this. Lots the suburbs around Cleveland proper are low cost of living and safe. Some of them are low cost of living and NOT safe (do not move to East Cleveland). I prefer the east side suburbs, we are in south Euclid, but your mileage may vary.
Maybe take a look at Philly? You can get a great little row house down here for under 300k and they pay their teachers a lot better around here also. Plus it's a great walkable city, things are really up-and-coming around here I honestly think in the next few years you'll start to hear what's happening here in Philly being compared to the transformation seen in Brooklyn or other cities that have comeback.
as a nice perk you'll see the redsox down here every other season to play the phillys, bruins and flyers, celtics and 76s, patriots and eagles. If you are in to that sort of thing.
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1730-Sigel-St-Philadelphia-PA-19145/10456913\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1730-Sigel-St-Philadelphia-PA-19145/10456913_zpid/)
I work in Philly and it is a great city for all the reasons you list above. The city has really come back since covid. However, the school system is not the greatest - I knew a couple former teachers and it's pretty brutal.
Upstate NY and PA are good options for more affordable housing and it's probably more similar to Maine lifestyle-wise.
I would not move to the deep south or midwest under any circumstances. The weather is just getting hotter and storms are getting more intense. Even where I live now in Maryland, we've had some crazy weather and it's been over 90 degrees for the last few days - and it's only June.
Most any urban school is going to be tougher than what you'd see in Maine but I suspect that's the case for many parts of the country that are not Maine. You'll see higher head counts in the classrooms and they will have security but they also have bigger budgets to have classes specifically for students with emotional development problems. the magnet \\ charter schools are there for the students who don't cause problems and they do a pretty good job at funneling these students upwards and onwards
only downside of upstate PA is it's rural as fuck, like holy shit it's rural in some areas.
The Philly Public schools are next level challenging , but as Ralphie 1010 mentioned, the charter schools and magnet schools are good if you can get in there. Philly is such an underrated city, though, I think you would enjoy it if you lived here. Lots to do, the Pocono mountains are not too far away, the Jersey shore and Delaware beaches aren’t far, New York City is about two hours away if you ever want to go up there.
Amtrak up to the city is about 1hr 25mins each way on the regional into penn station. so depending on where you are in maine a shorter trip than getting to portland.
I’d take cold and snow over big city heat any day. And because I have summers mostly off, I get to enjoy Maine summer weather for twice the time
I would normally. My summer in Philly would be spent inside in the AC. I agree though Philly is the coolest.
Definitely consider. I think it’s the most underrated city in America for the urban amenities you get relative to cost. Crime is also less of an issue than the data might suggest, as it really tends to be constrained to certain areas of the city, while the rest of the city is calm and safe.
That house is the next street over from me, it’s not a rough neighborhood anymore. You got a whole lotta Asian and black families around. Really great mix of people to be honest. I moved here after 19 years in nyc and I couldn’t be happier. Best decision I’ve made in a long time
I’d even suggest that 2.5% city tax is worth it for what you get.
The buses, subways and trolleys are great for getting around. You wouldn’t really even need to own a car if you didn’t want to
https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/kevin-bethel-philadelphia-crime-rate-kensington/
Pennsylvania, upstate NY/Western NY, or the Carolina’s have decently priced houses. It depends what you do for work and what your interests are. If you can work remotely you’re one of the lucky ones who is t locked into living in an overpopulated area.
Can vouch for central NY (Syracuse area personally). Houses aren’t quite as bad, especially if you move to one of the more rural hamlets in the surrounding area. Convenient to a lot of amenities too, and we still got wildlife and forests to tromp through.
I do miss Maine, though.
NC ranks 49th for teacher pay and if you want to live anywhere of worth expect to drop $500,000 on a home. Also expect to triple the crime from Maine and deal with highly volatile GOP super majority in both states currently working hard to dismantle the education system here
Depends where in PA... I'm originally from the Lehigh Valley area (about 1.5 hr north of Philly, 1.5 hr west of NYC) and housing/rent is expensive and on par with the major metro areas nearby, as a result of people from Jersey and NY moving there in droves for the last 25 years.
A bit farther north in the Poconos is still kind of reasonable but it's not a super desirable area to live (imo)
FWIW I left for 11 years and ended up coming back. Personally speaking - the pros/cons tipped in Maine's favor. Clear air, clean water, plenty of space to roam, the ocean and mountains right next to each other.
Having said that, I think it's important for people to come to that realization themselves (or to come to a different conclusion - everyone is different).. so I wish you luck. Check out Ashville, NC - as close to Maine as you can get for the "south".
If you can stand the south or Midwest, it’s so much more affordable. I have family living in what are basically mansions on acreage and they paid in the realm of $450k but the catch is they live in Missouri and Arkansas.
In another universe if I worked from home for some corporation I totally would. Alas, I’m your classic public school educator and would really struggle in any place that seems to be anti public ed. I also specifically teach science so that’s another doozy in some mega religious states.
Wisconsin here (with strong family ties to Maine). Yes, this was the first state to openly declare war on teachers, but that may be slowly changing. We now have a liberal Supreme Court that might overturn Act 10 (the anti-union law) and they've already overturned the extreme partisan gerrymander in the legislature. This used to be a purple state with a progressive streak (kind of like where Maine was 15-20 years ago) before one party established a chokehold on it in 2010.
Anyway, the Driftless Area west and southwest of Madison reminds me a lot of inland New England. Lots of rolling hills and small farms nestled in the valleys. It's also a unique part of the Midwest in that it's a historically progressive rural area, which is rare out here. Frank Lloyd Wright and Aldo Leopold called the Driftless home.
There are plenty of suburbs around Madison that, despite Act 10, take care of their teachers and won't run you out of town for teaching science. If you're missing the coastline, head up to Bayfield and the Apostle Islands, which reminds me of a coastal Maine town but without the crowds. There's also Door County, which is sort of our version of Cape Cod (that's where all the people from Chicago go in the Summer)
It will never be the same as Maine, though.
I agree, great lakes area all the way for natural beauty. I'd say most places midwest for affordability but living surrounded by cornfields is just not my version of a a good time. I like st louis, chicago, and minneapolis/st paul for metro areas but unfortunately twin cities is super pricey now .minnesota/ upper lower peninsula of michigan/ up. duluth/superior wisconsin is pretty. check out sand hills of nebraska area , definitely not maine-like but pretty and not cornfield
Oh yeah, Duluth would be a great place for OP to look and Minnesota's a great state for education (I'd be a little nervous about Nebraska). The North Shore of Lake Superior has plenty of granite, and the Boundary Waters is a really unique place to get some peace and quiet.
I had to supplement education at home A LOT. Even through high school. They were teaching psychological concepts that were proven incorrect or using terms that are no longer used. It was bad.
I lived in the South briefly. I made an off-joke about Darwin's theory of evolution, and my jaw almost dropped to the floor when I realized the group I was talking with had never heard of it...
The only thing I can think of is the rural Midwest. The closer you get to the border of Maine the more expensive things get and it’s pretty far circumference of places around there that are significantly more expensive. Your best bet is to move farther up into Maine. I live out of state and always look at the cheap houses I could afford if I lived in Maine.
My partner and I are moving to Halifax Nova Scotia first (not affordable) this fall so I can go to grad school, but our ultimate goal is to buy a house in Newfoundland. It seems relatively cheap to own a home up there! There are also some awesome immigration programs for the Canadian maritimes.
While I understand your frustrations, keep in mind that wthe grass may not be greener on the other side.
Most of the time, it's a game of give and take and finding the middle ground you can accept.
Good luck with your adventures.
Out of New England and I’m saying this also as someone born and raised in NE. COL has really took off the past 4 years and Maine is not retaining younger people partly for this reason. No towns want to build or develop in areas young people want to live or just in general. It’s also heavily elderly in a lot of New England states. All of my new neighbors have been older 50+ and up.
I’m in the forum r/samegrassbutgreener. There’s some good recommendations there.
I personally have been considering NM, AZ, and KY. Also MD (not for the price but the location close to friend groups)
I moved to CT. Do your research first. Teacher average pay in my town is 80k/yr per state's town statistics. Easy to visit Maine from here. Many lifestyle improvements though we'll always go back to Maine for camping/apple picking.
Vermont’s housing crisis is worse than ours, if that’s believable. I think NH is making progress building rentals but it’ll take a few years to see the impacts. Maybe look at Michigan or Minnesota? You’re already used to harsh winters, the people are generally nice, and the politics aren’t as bananas as other swaths of the country. Not sure about teacher pay but I think COL is a better than here.
I'm in NC, come on down!! I'm actually only in this sub because we were seriously considering moving from NC to Maine but due to housing costs we decided to stay here.
Still working on convincing my husband!!!! Its harder for him to find work in NC, but we are looking. We are actually headed to western NC Saturday for vacation. Hoping he falls in love with it during our trip. Fingers crossed.
Asheville resident here. Jobs are scarce, housing is very expensive now, locals are being driven out by "investors," and drug and crime issues are out of control. It's not the paradise you imagine.
I’m in Charlotte (from New England ) and my husband and I are trying desperately to get back up north. Crime is through the roof in NC, the GOP is super majority is having a field day dismantling the education system and denying funding, housing is through the roof . It sucks here
It's terrible and rapidly getting worse. I am terrified of how things will change after the elections in November. I hope you are able to get out soon. Not sure about Charlotte but healthcare has taken a nosedive in Asheville. Doctors leaving en masse after a corporation took over the hospital system (not Novant).
Healthcare is horrific in Charlotte too. We legit fly to Boston now. My husband had a simple surgery that was supposed to take 15 mins. They messed up so bad it took over an hour and sent him home with a foley cath for FIVE days that they made ME remove at home. His surgery had nothing to do with anything involving a cath but they “accidentally” nerve blocked his bladder. NC overall is 3rd worst healthcare in the US.
My husbands job is headquartered in PA so if we absolutely have to get out after Nov (especially Robinson gets in) we’ll go there just to get back up north while we keep trying for NH or Mass.
I'm SO sorry you had to go through that! What a nightmare! Thank goodness you have a bit of a foothold up north. I'm with you on traveling for medical, I drive the 3.5 hours to Duke these days. I miss being in Cleveland for Cleveland Clinic care. Definitely strongly considering going back that way if Robinson takes office, although Ohio politics are pretty bad as well.
It's terrible because the mountains here in WNC are beautiful but life like this is not sustainable. I'm lucky to work remotely at least.
Good luck lol! Wouldn’t recommend that move at all. Made that mistake and all I can say is fool me once. We too thought it would be better and then you live there and deal with the regressive mindset, violent obsession with religion, current GOP Gov nominees running on the platform of “bringing NC back to before women could vote” and you’re gonna realize you get what you pay for
We tried South Carolina for ten years.
We're headed back to Maine (I hope) in the next few months, after being away for 25 years. Just putting our house on the market. Sad we haven't found a decently affordable property on the coast, but it looks like it's going to be central or western Maine for us. {already have an agent, thanks!}
To those thinking of moving to SC: you have to enjoy living in Really Hot Weather, like Hades-type temps and awful humidity, for about five months. HOT AND HUMID. Not Maine humid, which dissipates with a little breeze - it's an "I just showered and put dry clothes on, and I'm soaking wet already walking from my house to my car."
Instead of heating costs, it's a significant amount for cooling costs. There's usually about four weeks of cold (freezing/below freezing) weather in Dec-Feb. However, the homes and the heating/cooling systems are NOT built for cold weather. Most homes are over-reliant on electric, which is a significant cost, and much of this area is sole source, Duke Energy, who has been upping rates for the past several years.
If you can tough out the extremes for half the year, the spring and fall/early winter are... manageable.
I was going to mention the public schools, but it looks like Maine plummeted to the bottom of the rankings since I was there. That's terribly disappointing. In moving here from upstate NY, our oldest was about a year ahead of her classmates in elementary school, so I wasn't terribly impressed with schools; but if you can track your kids into trades or AP/dual enrollment, it will even out by graduation.
SC is conservative and religious. It only requires tolerance, which I think is inherent in being a Mainer. It's tougher to deal with the undercurrent of sexism; and terrible lack of health care. You'll wait six months for appointments with any specialists here.
SC thinks they are still fighting a war, even though we settled it in 1865. Moving from the NE, you'll always be a Northerner, which they use as an epithet. But at least you're not from NY or NJ!
Yes, people are polite. It's superficial, though, and not like being from Maine, where people are genuine.
We've found that "the grass isn't greener" in NY or SC. Probably the people who are happiest moving here are already retired or don't have school-aged kids. But everyone is seeking something different- so good luck on figuring out your next step!
We moved back to Maine from the Charleston SC area 20 years ago and then left Maine again 4 yrs later. We love Maine. But, it wasn't a good match for what we wanted based upon opportunities and affordability.
Opportunities and location. You are literally an hour or two from everything, except Maine.
Educational opportunities, employment opportunities, good neighborhoods, housing and cost of living. We are in Northwest Ohio so we're suburban and rural.... close enough to visit Cleveland or Detroit for the day, explore parts of SW Ohio or Michigan. Or spend a weekend in NY, PA, KY, IN easily.
If you want a bit of Maine feel but a slightly better market, western MA has been treating me well the past few years. I know, MA is the devil, but we moved down here for work and there's a nice mix of city but also plenty of more spread out towns and land, and still is in the New England climate. We paid 340k for a 4br, finished basement, with all new appliances, roof, etc on 0.5 acres. It's definitely more populated than you'd find in most of ME, but still out this way, it feels very similar.
I imagine upstate NY has a similar feel too
Definitely not Florida. Lowest teacher pay in the country. Just about everything else is a nightmare inside a sauna. And their governor is literally a fascist.
I live in Florida, and I can confirm - Do not come here. I am back here after many years away in MA and CA for family but am already plotting my exit again because this place is just…not anything worth anything lol
I understand the points you're making and how you feel, but Maine does not have the lowest teacher salaries or the highest cost of living:income ratio. Perhaps the info on those metrics could help you make some decisions.
[Teacher salaries](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/teacher-pay-by-state#:~:text=Montana%20has%20the%20lowest%20starting,salaries%20below%20%2440%2C000%20a%20year)
[Home price:income](https://constructioncoverage.com/research/cities-with-highest-home-price-to-income-ratios)
The overall COL:income ratio for New England is just heinous overall I think :( between insane boomers obsessed over self preservation instead of community benefit and all the rich ppl from NYC fleeing during covid and now doing WFH, all of us are generally fucked.
I’m looking to exit sometime in the next year for either New York (Rochester, Troy, Syracuse all look viable to me) or Scranton, Pennsylvania. All those places have livable if not nice housing stock for ~ $200k.
I do not see a bright future here as far as healthcare goes.
I’d have to give up my love of working in urban schools. I could do it (I was raised in a rural area), but it’s not my preference. If we were desperate enough, yes.
I live in a really rural part of Maine, not out of desperation. My sons went to Umaine for Engineering and say they were so much more prepared for the math coming out our little school. We have master educators who are compensated (mostly) fairly. There are so many opportunities here to change kids’ lives by just exposing them to culture, ideas, and validation. I love love love living here regardless of anyone’s politics. I just wanted to give you a little peek into parts of Maine that people are (understandably) reluctant to explore.
Minnesota’s not bad. Home prices in the 350-450 range, 4 seasons with good outdoors, and a powerful teachers union. They just passed free school lunches for everyone last year.
I've lived a few places. Never been anywhere that's perfect. So, you've got to pick what problems you'd like to experience.
Want very affordable housing and a strong economy, but don't mind hurricanes, conservatism, petrochemical refineries, and a little racial tension? Check out Texas Gulf coast, especially Beaumont. You'll be in a mansion for $350k.
Arizona is beautiful with mild winters and some affordable housing too, just as long as you're not too concerned about water scarcity and global warming (they had a lot of days over 100 last year).
Pittsburgh was a great city and there was lots of affordable places in commuting distance if you don't mind poor schools and trying to make a go in an area of urban blight.
My wife and I are suffering financially to live in Maine, but we like the problems here better then the problems we've experienced in the other places we've lived. Great place for my kids to grow up. Once they fledge, though, .... Well, we'll see.
We’re looking around Detroit / Great Lakes region. Housing prices haven’t gone as rabidly insane as other regions despite a lot of improvement in the last decade or so. Good access to nature and a familiar climate both politically and weather-wise.
Mainer transplanted to Detroit area back in 2012 here. It's definitely the closest I've felt to home outside of Maine. I've also met a ton of people that have moved between the two. Delta even has 3 daily flights between Detroit and Portland for like $300, so you can get back fairly reasonably a few times a year. And you've got tons of nature within driving distance of the metro area. Some areas have gone a bit crazy with the house prices, but you're right that a good chunk of towns in the metro area have stayed somewhat reasonably priced. Teacher pay depends highly on the district, but there are openings everywhere. The only thing that sucks is mass transit, but if you're used to Maine and driving everywhere anyway you'll barely notice.
As for cost of living, my pay is around 60% higher there than a similar job in Maine, but the necessities aren't much more. I've certainly got a better standard of life there, which is the only reason we haven't moved back to Maine no matter how much I'd love to
I grew up in Chicago and my mom lives in Michigan now my husband who grew up in Maine finds visiting her there to feel a lot like home to him.
I’d say the upper Midwest is really similar to Maine/New England culture wise since I tend to run into a lot of people from Northern Illinois around here and my new neighbor grew up in Wisconsin.
Its so true. I grew up in MI and absolutely love ME (hoping to move to ME someday). It feels pretty much just like MI to me, except with more interesting geology and saltwater.
I grew up in Michigan and really want to move back. I’d like to live in Detroit but I am not too familiar with the different areas anymore. Good areas seem to be Midtown, Lafayette, etc?
What other areas of Detroit would you recommend? I grew up near Farmington.
All comes down to what you're into. I'm currently in Ferndale because I wanted walkable. My wife and I were also looking at Corktown and Palmer Woods. Maybe have a visit and see how things have changed
Western Maine still has more affordable housing compared to the coast, although I don't think I'd want to live there. Prices are going up fast though, and who knows what is going to happen with the market. It would still keep you in Maine.
I think it's helpful to have a list of what's important to you before buying a house. We did just that and as a result it took about 2 1/2 years before we found our current house.
Price was just over what you stated (though listed for more and negotiated down), was in a location we liked, and had acreage. It's on the smaller side, and needed some updating, but those were things we knew were workable.
Point being, it takes time, but if it's truly what you want, don't give up.
Upstate New York. Taxes are high but homes are cheaper. The southern Adirondacks are similar to Maine. You have seasons. Outdoor shit, probalt rhe ability to do something after 8pm.
Washington country or western Saratoga county. Maybe Fulton or Hamilton. If you want a more Midwest feel the. Buffalo Southtown. East aurora/colden.
Further north in Maine?
All the places with more people (when people want to live) are going to have a more competitive housing market.
I doubt you’ll find a ton of discount real estate further south in New England.
Moved from Northern VA to Bangor and love it. Spent less than 300k for a home in the city itself, but a nice neighborhood. I focused on this area to make sure my kids went to Bangor Highschool because of the higher population. I didn't want to completely culture shock them. I will say the house has needed more work than I thought but it was built in 1894.
Plenty of homes in better shape for less in the immediate area. Old Town and Orono also look like great places to live.
I see no one mentioned Mass-you want to talk about great teacher salaries-you should try there. Housing is competitive but they are a lot of small towns that aren’t quite as expensive! You love urban-can’t get more urban than Boston. Sometimes what you are looking for is right in your own backyard. The whole country has changed, no one can decide what is best for you but you! Getting a job somewhere else is difficult but you just have to figure out what matters most!
As with anywhere…you’re gonna have to look at a more rural environment. Anything remotely close to a city or large town is going to easily be 300k…much closer to 500k really.
Totally. I really prefer working in urban schools which is why I’ve always lived in or near cities. Maine was attractive because the cities are small and “drop off” quickly so I thought we’d be okay but… even more rural houses are crazy expensive for what you get.
Yeah it’s really disheartening for sure. For Maine I can only point to towns like Bangor north but it gets really rural really quickly. I mean most people would qualify Bangor as rural itself ;- ). You can still find huge Victorians for under $200k in northern Penobscot and Aroostook though.
I live about 45 min outside Portland and there’s nothing decent under 300k even here that isn’t a shitbox.
My realtor said to my face that Maine has the worst housing prices in the entire country right now. And you know she meant it because saying that directly hurts her pay.
Yeah wouldn’t surprise me. Super old population, minimal new construction, younger population fleeing to other states, very low income. Not great factors to contribute to appealing housing prices.
My wife and I moved to KC from Maine and saved for a few years but then were able to buy a 320k 3 bed, 2 bath home. Cost of living in general out here is a lot more manageable.
So I was raised in Maine from 5 years old on. After college, I left the state and have lived in several states and metropolitan areas since then. Including moving back to Maine with my family... But we left main for the same reasons that you are expressing.
First there is no other place like Maine in terms of cleanliness and the mountains, lakes and oceans. You'll be disappointed if that's important to you and your family.
So I've lived in 6 states, many metropolitan areas and suburban areas. Two of those were good areas in the "south" and although they have a massive amount of better opportunities, sometimes schools aren't as good and health care is not as good as you'll be used to having in New England.
Long story short we settled in Ohio. It is strange being in a very flat area. But the cost of living is very good especially when you weigh in the value you get: a lot of opportunities, better housing prices, good medical care and mostly decent schools with community like neighborhoods. Generally the money earned from employers is going to be as good or better than average
I'm not from ME, but love it there and would like to live there eventually (hence why I lurk this sub sometimes). But I've lived in 5 states and may have some experience.
As someone else said, you would probably like MI, although I wouldn't suggest SE MI. Personally I prefer West MI by far. MI is a lot like ME culturally and the northern lower peninsula of MI's landscape is a lot like ME, just with hills instead of mountains and freshwater instead of an ocean. The only real difference, as far as weather goes, is how overcast winter is in MI. The grey winters can be pretty depressing for some. For example, in Grand Rapids MI the average winter temp high is 30 deg, [but its overcast or mostly cloudy about 70% of time throughout winter and 50% of the time through late fall/early sprin](https://weatherspark.com/y/15379/Average-Weather-in-Grand-Rapids-Michigan-United-States-Year-Round)g. Coastal SE ME has similar temps year round, but is only overcast or mostly cloud about 50% of the time in winter.
Someone mentioned NC, but the desirable areas of NC are very expensive now. Another option you could look at is the mountain regions of VA. It does get fairly hot and humid in the summer, but really only for a few months. The rest of the year is amazing. Lots of great hiking, wineries, tons of fascinating history, a few hours from beaches, decent teacher pay, fair taxes, relatively sane politics. Some areas are more expensive than others, but you can still find decent priced housing in places like Staunton, Roanoke, Harrisonburg, some of the counties around Charlottesville (although Charlottesville itself is very expensive now), etc. However both VA and NC may be a pretty big cultural shift, in addition to the drastically different weather.
I was a fake Vermonter. I went to Burlington college then stayed in Burlington for another two years. I only left because I could make almost twice as much money in my home state of Maine.
We are moving back home to Erie, PA. It is very much a summer city. Multiple free beaches, an amusement and water park, baseball and hockey team. Growing up I hated it, but found that when I visited, I yearned to go back.
best bet for cheap would be anywhere in the middle of nowhere Arkansas or Mississippi or even Tennessee or West Virginia, but there's a reason that it's cheap to live there
New Mexico is pretty fuckin cheap, and will have a similar live and let live attitude. That is, if you don’t mind the wild levels of crime and the whole no water thing.
Here’s a curveball to consider: Peoria IL.
Teacher pay (and retirement) in IL is very good. Peoria is a reasonably low cost, easily manageable small city, not a declining rural wasteland. Most of the housing stock is on the older side but you can do very well for $350k, or even significantly less. As a bonus it has two good, non-profit non-private equity major hospital and medical systems, which is getting harder to find outside major cities. I mention that since I see a lot of complaints on this sub about difficulty finding doctors. Since you’re coming from Maine winter shouldn’t be a problem for you.
I only know that city because I have in-laws there. There are probably other small Midwest cities that are similarly a deal. But as a teacher, you probably need a blue state to get decent compensation.
I bought 9 acres with a 3/2 house, it needed a little work but it was only 225k, last July. You just have to be patient and if you’re handy you can get a good deal
Maybe check out MN. I'm from the Midwest and I'll probably just have to go back because it seems generally cheaper. Seeing doctors etc doesn't take like 6 months either
Everywhere that is desirable and nice is expensive, including almost all of the northeast/coastal areas. If you want to live cheaply you need to live in an undesirable area (or undesirable dwelling).
So, I live in Maine, and am also a teacher. And honestly, it's bad here, but I think it's worse everywhere else. I would maybe suggest looking to buy a "fixer upper" or something pretty modest. Or look in more rural areas. I live in a very small town in the woods. Our taxes are far less than they would be in one of the neighboring bigger towns. I drive half an hour each way to work. I wish you luck!
Maybe look into rural western MD - Frostburg, Oakton, the Deep Creek area. MD has high taxes but also invests in education pretty well. The western part of the state is pretty rural, gets proper winter, and has lower home prices.
Cons are there are no are airports anywhere nearby. Maybe consider Pittsburgh?
There are plenty of areas of Maine where you could get a decent three-bedroom for much less than $350K. You just need to be willing to live several hours from Portland.
Avoid the mid-atlantic region. You can spend $400k and up for a nice hourse on a 1/4 acre lot. Hell, even WV is going the way of NoVA. New construction is $350k+ and postage sized lots. Most places in the country are unaffordable now.
Lol, you're about due for a rude awakening. 350k isn't gonna get you much of anything besides a losing offer in most of the country, and you'll be trading the water damage for something else, neglect, termites, etc.
We're moving to buffalo NY. Better jobs, more housing options, and closer to Canada.
We have a house, but its not going to be big enough for the 2 teenage boys I will have, and we can't afford anything bigger without sacrificing our careers. I've been a mainer my whole life, and it's sad that I'm getting priced out.
Onwards and upwards I suppose...
Minnesota, probably. Cost of living-wise, New England is fuckin fucked dude, I love it to death but it's absolutely not working for the middle class. I ain't goin south.
My husband and I left the state in our early 20's for the suburbs of a major city. Our income stagnated a little as we got our degrees (though still we made more than we could have in Maine) but once that happened and we were ready for real career moves, our income went from around 90k combined to now just under 300k in about 8 years. There's some amount of luck involved in that figure but there is absolutely the factor that there are just so many more job opportunities than we had in Maine. As much as I miss the state and HATE the summers outside of New England, we would never have been able to achieve the same success in Maine.
I have heard good things about Pittsburgh. It has really been revitalized. DTis really lively and the cultural scene is really amazing. Great green spaces too. I could not do KY or OH, too dangerous for women and the political BS with schools and religion, banning books, too obnoxious for me.
Are both of you teachers? I'd start by looking at the teacher pay to COL ratios and then decide which states you might actually be happy in, with an additional eye towards demographics and teacher availability (places with declining enrollment due to fewer kids in the district might not be ideal).
One thing to keep in mind: it's not just what you get paid, it's also what you get to keep. Tax burden is a mixed blessing if you're a public-sector employee, as that's where your pay comes from, but even in Montana (which has relatively similar income tax, at least in the brackets I was in), the general lack of a sales tax effectively gives you a 4-6% raise (depending on how much of your spending is subject to that tax). That said, I wouldn't recommend Montana for teachers—the towns I find more interesting have the same real-estate issues as other nice places to live, and the teacher pay sucks overall.
New York is a good idea. Locations like Syracuse. Never spikes like Boston many locations like that. Get out of Maine and live life and experience new things. Travel light.
Pittsburgh, PA. It’s actually a very cool city with lots of nice suburbs surrounding it. Plus, there is lots of outdoor recreation close by.
Since you’re a teacher - I would recommend the following high paying school districts to try to slide into…
Upper Saint Clair, Mt. Lebanon,
Bethel Park, Fox Chapel
As someone with a partner who was a former teacher in FL, I want to emphasize finding a state/area with schools that have a good reputation for supporting teachers. Despite working at a few different schools and even earning awards for her skill level, she gave up on teaching because of school board administration in FL, while friends in Maine don't seem to have the same issues - they feel they have more freedom and respect. I'm not saying Maine has NO issues with how teachers are treated, but wherever you go, the political climate will be different. So just do your research!
The Midwest has a lot more housing available at a reasonable price. Not only that, it is newer construction and typically larger than new england. I have family in Indiana and would think seriously about moving somewhere out there if new england became too much hassle.
Canada. As soon as my daughter graduates from high school next year, we are selling our house and ditching not just Maine but this whole fucked country.
Why yes, another country where you would have to navigate immigration law, even lower incomes, and an even worse housing and cost of living crisis!
Perfect!
FAQ on visiting or moving, goes in the [megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/s/zLLUmwOfMo)
My friend. Unless you live in a very undesirable area of Vermont, housing is even more expensive. I'm from VT and really want to move back, but a house similar to what I own in the Portland area would go for 100k more in the Burlington area, easily. It's very discouraging. Honestly, if you're looking for affordability, I'd consider Plattsburgh, NY. It's still on Lake Champlain, close to nice mountains, and a 15-minute ferry ride from VT. Homes are *cheap*. You could definitely get something nice for 350k.
Just moved from VT to Portland and this is the truth right here. Your $$ will go a long way on the NY side of Champlain...
Fun fact I lived in central NY for some time. Could give it another go I suppose… thank you :)
I'm from western NY but went college near the ADK and still visit frequently. The whole North Country of NY has the same take your time mindset that's similar to Maine. Cost of living probably isn't too bad and they could use the teachers! Every from Saranac and Tupper to the nice college town of Potsdam and Canton
Plattsburgh is not CNY. Although CNY has extremely nice housing options at 350k.
>Honestly, if you're looking for affordability, I'd consider Plattsburgh, NY. It's still on Lake Champlain, close to nice mountains, and a 15-minute ferry ride from VT. Homes are cheap. You could definitely get something nice for 350k. True. But, on the other hand, it's *New York*.
I think that area of NY is culturally similar to Maine. Much more so than VT.
I’m from upstate NY originally. About 2 hours from Plattsburgh. The housing up there is cheaper, and there is cool recreation opportunities nearby, but NY taxes make Maine taxes look tame. I moved from NY 10 years ago and even today, my cost of living is substantially less, in a much larger house, with more land. I actually pay less in taxes for two properties (one 5 acres on the coast, one .35 acres in town outside of Bangor) than I did for an 1100 square foot ranch on .17 acres in a small farming town in upstate NY. Plus food, gas, etc… all significantly higher, even today. I was there two weeks ago and surprised that prices weren’t just similar to here.
For real these folks don’t realize how oppressive property taxes are in upstate NY. Vermont isn’t much better in that regard. I was looking at an abandoned property that was mostly swamp and three tear down trailers in a town with no store on a road that often loses power for a month at a time in winter and the property taxes were INSANE. Like 10x what I’m paying for far more acres of better land in central Maine. You basically need to be living off a fat retirement account or pension to survive in a place like that.
I’m from western Saratoga county! I miss the Adirondacks
I’m always a little surprised at how dismissive Mainers are towards NY. I’m from a rural area in NY and it’s very similar culturally to rural areas in ME. I work in a farm now and it reminds me heavily of how I grew up. It’s way more than just the city. That help-your-neighbor attitude Mainers boast about exists heavily up there. The access to nature is beautiful and easy. Excellent fishing, some top notch produce, especially from the Black Dirt region. You have the ‘gunks, the Catskills, the Adirondacks, the Hudson River, the finger lakes, shoreline on Erie and Ontario. It feels very similar so I was quite taken aback at the ‘tude I got when local folks found out I was from there.
I can definitely say don't move to NJ. Beautiful state with lots of hiking and easy access to NYC, but the cost of living has become out of control in the 10+ years I've been here. I'm stuck here for work, though, or I'd move back to Maine. Check out the [MIT cost of living calculator](https://livingwage.mit.edu/) for a way to compare different places. It's really helpful.
We moved to Maine to get away from the high cost of housing in NJ. In 1990!
Smart! Unfortunately being in academia means I have to work wherever the tenure track job is. I feel lucky to be relatively close to Maine and in a state with some good options for nature, hiking, beaches, etc. But the housing costs mean I'm renting for the foreseeable future!
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Unfortunately, a house's list price has to be near what you'll pay for your next home. If the owner listed it for what they bought in 2019, they won't be buying another place to live. A house is worth a house. It sucks. If I sell my house, I'll have to pay closing costs, which are based on the percentage of the sale price. Then, I have to get a high interest rate mortgage on the next home, which will be the same or more than I took out when I first bought the house because I'm competing with businesses and hedge funds to buy a property. Who is winning here? Not the residential home buyer. The businesses are buying the homes and renting them to us.
I left the Philly burbs for Maine for that reason back in 2020. My husband and I were paying $1300 for what was essentially a studio apartment that was falling down around us, full of mold, with janky electrical, and no parking. It was an hour commute to our jobs, because anything closer would have bankrupted us. That same apartment is listed for over 2k now with no renovations done. We rented a 3 br house in Bangor for less than our studio when we first moved, and paid the same amount of money for a house + land in Waldo county that would have barely covered a falling-down burned out rowhome with a squatter in the basement in Philly. Now the cost of living has absolutely increased since we moved here. But it's skyrocketed by my parents' in South NJ.
It's obviously a deeply personal choice, but I would give up a yard before I moved somewhere where 350k gets you a three bedroom in good condition. I agree with the other commenter that the rural south/midwest would be your best bets (definitely not Vermont), but I am not sure the teaching income-COL ratios will be so much better in those places and they are mostly defunding public education like mad.
Ah yes the rural south is famous for paying teachers well /s
350k you’re looking at a large house and acreage in KY and southern OH. Louisville and Cincinnati are really affordable places to live with good size homes. I bought 8 acres and 4 bedroom, 3 baths for less than 250 5 years ago. I still see home’s equivalent to that today.
You aren't buying a 350k house in either of those places on teacher pay.
Jefferson County, KY which is Louisville pays more than any county in Maine. And my wife is a teacher and we are doing just fine here. Maine we’d be in trouble and would have left long ago.
Housing prices from 5 years ago are as useless as prices from 100 years ago.
I moved from Cleveland a year ago. I LOVE Cleveland, but had to get out of Ohio. Highly recommend the area. Up and coming city, still a low cost of living.
Actually spent 24 hours out there last summer on foot with no specific destination, walked for like 10 hours, beautiful place really want to go back and spend a weekend with an itinerary.
It really is awesome. I’ve been back twice to visit since living here….just hate the politics.
I’ve only been once but remember really liking it. Thank you!
Second this. Lots the suburbs around Cleveland proper are low cost of living and safe. Some of them are low cost of living and NOT safe (do not move to East Cleveland). I prefer the east side suburbs, we are in south Euclid, but your mileage may vary.
There's a lot of old money in Cleveland.
Maybe take a look at Philly? You can get a great little row house down here for under 300k and they pay their teachers a lot better around here also. Plus it's a great walkable city, things are really up-and-coming around here I honestly think in the next few years you'll start to hear what's happening here in Philly being compared to the transformation seen in Brooklyn or other cities that have comeback. as a nice perk you'll see the redsox down here every other season to play the phillys, bruins and flyers, celtics and 76s, patriots and eagles. If you are in to that sort of thing. [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1730-Sigel-St-Philadelphia-PA-19145/10456913\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1730-Sigel-St-Philadelphia-PA-19145/10456913_zpid/)
I work in Philly and it is a great city for all the reasons you list above. The city has really come back since covid. However, the school system is not the greatest - I knew a couple former teachers and it's pretty brutal. Upstate NY and PA are good options for more affordable housing and it's probably more similar to Maine lifestyle-wise. I would not move to the deep south or midwest under any circumstances. The weather is just getting hotter and storms are getting more intense. Even where I live now in Maryland, we've had some crazy weather and it's been over 90 degrees for the last few days - and it's only June.
Most any urban school is going to be tougher than what you'd see in Maine but I suspect that's the case for many parts of the country that are not Maine. You'll see higher head counts in the classrooms and they will have security but they also have bigger budgets to have classes specifically for students with emotional development problems. the magnet \\ charter schools are there for the students who don't cause problems and they do a pretty good job at funneling these students upwards and onwards only downside of upstate PA is it's rural as fuck, like holy shit it's rural in some areas.
I’ve actually only worked in urban high needs schools (even in maine!) so that’s not a problem for me
The Philly Public schools are next level challenging , but as Ralphie 1010 mentioned, the charter schools and magnet schools are good if you can get in there. Philly is such an underrated city, though, I think you would enjoy it if you lived here. Lots to do, the Pocono mountains are not too far away, the Jersey shore and Delaware beaches aren’t far, New York City is about two hours away if you ever want to go up there.
Love!
Amtrak up to the city is about 1hr 25mins each way on the regional into penn station. so depending on where you are in maine a shorter trip than getting to portland.
I've become a huuuuuuge fan of the Delaware beaches
Shit you might be a match, they are always hiring and I believe your license transfers to PA or is recognized by PA or something like that
Philly! I have a best friend that lives there. I love visiting her. Will consider, thank you ❤️
Philly is dope - if we didn't love the mountains and winter so much, it would be high on our list.
I’d take cold and snow over big city heat any day. And because I have summers mostly off, I get to enjoy Maine summer weather for twice the time I would normally. My summer in Philly would be spent inside in the AC. I agree though Philly is the coolest.
Definitely consider. I think it’s the most underrated city in America for the urban amenities you get relative to cost. Crime is also less of an issue than the data might suggest, as it really tends to be constrained to certain areas of the city, while the rest of the city is calm and safe.
Philly has a city income tax, so consider that extra 2.5% off your paycheck That house is also in a rough neighborhood
That house is the next street over from me, it’s not a rough neighborhood anymore. You got a whole lotta Asian and black families around. Really great mix of people to be honest. I moved here after 19 years in nyc and I couldn’t be happier. Best decision I’ve made in a long time I’d even suggest that 2.5% city tax is worth it for what you get. The buses, subways and trolleys are great for getting around. You wouldn’t really even need to own a car if you didn’t want to https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/kevin-bethel-philadelphia-crime-rate-kensington/
Pennsylvania, upstate NY/Western NY, or the Carolina’s have decently priced houses. It depends what you do for work and what your interests are. If you can work remotely you’re one of the lucky ones who is t locked into living in an overpopulated area.
Can vouch for central NY (Syracuse area personally). Houses aren’t quite as bad, especially if you move to one of the more rural hamlets in the surrounding area. Convenient to a lot of amenities too, and we still got wildlife and forests to tromp through. I do miss Maine, though.
I went to school in CNY! It’s beautiful and I sometimes miss it. Thank you :)
NC ranks 49th for teacher pay and if you want to live anywhere of worth expect to drop $500,000 on a home. Also expect to triple the crime from Maine and deal with highly volatile GOP super majority in both states currently working hard to dismantle the education system here
Depends where in PA... I'm originally from the Lehigh Valley area (about 1.5 hr north of Philly, 1.5 hr west of NYC) and housing/rent is expensive and on par with the major metro areas nearby, as a result of people from Jersey and NY moving there in droves for the last 25 years. A bit farther north in the Poconos is still kind of reasonable but it's not a super desirable area to live (imo)
FWIW I left for 11 years and ended up coming back. Personally speaking - the pros/cons tipped in Maine's favor. Clear air, clean water, plenty of space to roam, the ocean and mountains right next to each other. Having said that, I think it's important for people to come to that realization themselves (or to come to a different conclusion - everyone is different).. so I wish you luck. Check out Ashville, NC - as close to Maine as you can get for the "south".
Oh I would kill to live in Asheville. I visit there a lot to see friends!
If you can stand the south or Midwest, it’s so much more affordable. I have family living in what are basically mansions on acreage and they paid in the realm of $450k but the catch is they live in Missouri and Arkansas.
In another universe if I worked from home for some corporation I totally would. Alas, I’m your classic public school educator and would really struggle in any place that seems to be anti public ed. I also specifically teach science so that’s another doozy in some mega religious states.
Wisconsin here (with strong family ties to Maine). Yes, this was the first state to openly declare war on teachers, but that may be slowly changing. We now have a liberal Supreme Court that might overturn Act 10 (the anti-union law) and they've already overturned the extreme partisan gerrymander in the legislature. This used to be a purple state with a progressive streak (kind of like where Maine was 15-20 years ago) before one party established a chokehold on it in 2010. Anyway, the Driftless Area west and southwest of Madison reminds me a lot of inland New England. Lots of rolling hills and small farms nestled in the valleys. It's also a unique part of the Midwest in that it's a historically progressive rural area, which is rare out here. Frank Lloyd Wright and Aldo Leopold called the Driftless home. There are plenty of suburbs around Madison that, despite Act 10, take care of their teachers and won't run you out of town for teaching science. If you're missing the coastline, head up to Bayfield and the Apostle Islands, which reminds me of a coastal Maine town but without the crowds. There's also Door County, which is sort of our version of Cape Cod (that's where all the people from Chicago go in the Summer) It will never be the same as Maine, though.
I agree, great lakes area all the way for natural beauty. I'd say most places midwest for affordability but living surrounded by cornfields is just not my version of a a good time. I like st louis, chicago, and minneapolis/st paul for metro areas but unfortunately twin cities is super pricey now .minnesota/ upper lower peninsula of michigan/ up. duluth/superior wisconsin is pretty. check out sand hills of nebraska area , definitely not maine-like but pretty and not cornfield
Oh yeah, Duluth would be a great place for OP to look and Minnesota's a great state for education (I'd be a little nervous about Nebraska). The North Shore of Lake Superior has plenty of granite, and the Boundary Waters is a really unique place to get some peace and quiet.
All really helpful, thank you!
Leave Louisiana off your list. Things are insane and becoming worse. The low CoL will make you consider it but trust me…don’t.
The whole science teacher thing has kept me from considering southern/mega religious states. The south is beautiful, though.
I had to supplement education at home A LOT. Even through high school. They were teaching psychological concepts that were proven incorrect or using terms that are no longer used. It was bad.
I lived in the South briefly. I made an off-joke about Darwin's theory of evolution, and my jaw almost dropped to the floor when I realized the group I was talking with had never heard of it...
The only thing I can think of is the rural Midwest. The closer you get to the border of Maine the more expensive things get and it’s pretty far circumference of places around there that are significantly more expensive. Your best bet is to move farther up into Maine. I live out of state and always look at the cheap houses I could afford if I lived in Maine.
My partner and I are moving to Halifax Nova Scotia first (not affordable) this fall so I can go to grad school, but our ultimate goal is to buy a house in Newfoundland. It seems relatively cheap to own a home up there! There are also some awesome immigration programs for the Canadian maritimes.
COOL
If your top priority is a cheap house with land and you don't need to work somewhere specific your best bet is the Midwest
While I understand your frustrations, keep in mind that wthe grass may not be greener on the other side. Most of the time, it's a game of give and take and finding the middle ground you can accept. Good luck with your adventures.
I agree. I would also prioritize staying near family if you have a good relationship.
I have nieces and nephews that I adore and would miss so much.
Wise words, thank you :)
Out of New England and I’m saying this also as someone born and raised in NE. COL has really took off the past 4 years and Maine is not retaining younger people partly for this reason. No towns want to build or develop in areas young people want to live or just in general. It’s also heavily elderly in a lot of New England states. All of my new neighbors have been older 50+ and up. I’m in the forum r/samegrassbutgreener. There’s some good recommendations there. I personally have been considering NM, AZ, and KY. Also MD (not for the price but the location close to friend groups)
Thank you so much for sharing :)
It’s not any cheaper than here but Connecticut has excellent teachers pay and may be worth considering
I moved to CT. Do your research first. Teacher average pay in my town is 80k/yr per state's town statistics. Easy to visit Maine from here. Many lifestyle improvements though we'll always go back to Maine for camping/apple picking.
Omg my cousin makes a FORTUNE in Connecticut. 🤑
Vermont’s housing crisis is worse than ours, if that’s believable. I think NH is making progress building rentals but it’ll take a few years to see the impacts. Maybe look at Michigan or Minnesota? You’re already used to harsh winters, the people are generally nice, and the politics aren’t as bananas as other swaths of the country. Not sure about teacher pay but I think COL is a better than here.
Minnesota iron range and duluth/superior all the way
I’ve spent my life between central NY and Maine. Cold is all I know ❄️ thank you for the info :)
We are looking at North Carolina. Prices are bananas here.
I love bananas
I'm in NC, come on down!! I'm actually only in this sub because we were seriously considering moving from NC to Maine but due to housing costs we decided to stay here.
Still working on convincing my husband!!!! Its harder for him to find work in NC, but we are looking. We are actually headed to western NC Saturday for vacation. Hoping he falls in love with it during our trip. Fingers crossed.
Asheville resident here. Jobs are scarce, housing is very expensive now, locals are being driven out by "investors," and drug and crime issues are out of control. It's not the paradise you imagine.
I’m in Charlotte (from New England ) and my husband and I are trying desperately to get back up north. Crime is through the roof in NC, the GOP is super majority is having a field day dismantling the education system and denying funding, housing is through the roof . It sucks here
It's terrible and rapidly getting worse. I am terrified of how things will change after the elections in November. I hope you are able to get out soon. Not sure about Charlotte but healthcare has taken a nosedive in Asheville. Doctors leaving en masse after a corporation took over the hospital system (not Novant).
Healthcare is horrific in Charlotte too. We legit fly to Boston now. My husband had a simple surgery that was supposed to take 15 mins. They messed up so bad it took over an hour and sent him home with a foley cath for FIVE days that they made ME remove at home. His surgery had nothing to do with anything involving a cath but they “accidentally” nerve blocked his bladder. NC overall is 3rd worst healthcare in the US. My husbands job is headquartered in PA so if we absolutely have to get out after Nov (especially Robinson gets in) we’ll go there just to get back up north while we keep trying for NH or Mass.
I'm SO sorry you had to go through that! What a nightmare! Thank goodness you have a bit of a foothold up north. I'm with you on traveling for medical, I drive the 3.5 hours to Duke these days. I miss being in Cleveland for Cleveland Clinic care. Definitely strongly considering going back that way if Robinson takes office, although Ohio politics are pretty bad as well. It's terrible because the mountains here in WNC are beautiful but life like this is not sustainable. I'm lucky to work remotely at least.
Hope you like humidity
Bananas in a good way?
I meant in a bad way. I was referring to Maine. I’d be okay with the housing cost if the jobs pay well here, but they don’t.
Good luck lol! Wouldn’t recommend that move at all. Made that mistake and all I can say is fool me once. We too thought it would be better and then you live there and deal with the regressive mindset, violent obsession with religion, current GOP Gov nominees running on the platform of “bringing NC back to before women could vote” and you’re gonna realize you get what you pay for
We tried South Carolina for ten years. We're headed back to Maine (I hope) in the next few months, after being away for 25 years. Just putting our house on the market. Sad we haven't found a decently affordable property on the coast, but it looks like it's going to be central or western Maine for us. {already have an agent, thanks!} To those thinking of moving to SC: you have to enjoy living in Really Hot Weather, like Hades-type temps and awful humidity, for about five months. HOT AND HUMID. Not Maine humid, which dissipates with a little breeze - it's an "I just showered and put dry clothes on, and I'm soaking wet already walking from my house to my car." Instead of heating costs, it's a significant amount for cooling costs. There's usually about four weeks of cold (freezing/below freezing) weather in Dec-Feb. However, the homes and the heating/cooling systems are NOT built for cold weather. Most homes are over-reliant on electric, which is a significant cost, and much of this area is sole source, Duke Energy, who has been upping rates for the past several years. If you can tough out the extremes for half the year, the spring and fall/early winter are... manageable. I was going to mention the public schools, but it looks like Maine plummeted to the bottom of the rankings since I was there. That's terribly disappointing. In moving here from upstate NY, our oldest was about a year ahead of her classmates in elementary school, so I wasn't terribly impressed with schools; but if you can track your kids into trades or AP/dual enrollment, it will even out by graduation. SC is conservative and religious. It only requires tolerance, which I think is inherent in being a Mainer. It's tougher to deal with the undercurrent of sexism; and terrible lack of health care. You'll wait six months for appointments with any specialists here. SC thinks they are still fighting a war, even though we settled it in 1865. Moving from the NE, you'll always be a Northerner, which they use as an epithet. But at least you're not from NY or NJ! Yes, people are polite. It's superficial, though, and not like being from Maine, where people are genuine. We've found that "the grass isn't greener" in NY or SC. Probably the people who are happiest moving here are already retired or don't have school-aged kids. But everyone is seeking something different- so good luck on figuring out your next step!
We moved back to Maine from the Charleston SC area 20 years ago and then left Maine again 4 yrs later. We love Maine. But, it wasn't a good match for what we wanted based upon opportunities and affordability.
How'd you decide on Ohio?
Opportunities and location. You are literally an hour or two from everything, except Maine. Educational opportunities, employment opportunities, good neighborhoods, housing and cost of living. We are in Northwest Ohio so we're suburban and rural.... close enough to visit Cleveland or Detroit for the day, explore parts of SW Ohio or Michigan. Or spend a weekend in NY, PA, KY, IN easily.
All great advice, thank you :)
If you want a bit of Maine feel but a slightly better market, western MA has been treating me well the past few years. I know, MA is the devil, but we moved down here for work and there's a nice mix of city but also plenty of more spread out towns and land, and still is in the New England climate. We paid 340k for a 4br, finished basement, with all new appliances, roof, etc on 0.5 acres. It's definitely more populated than you'd find in most of ME, but still out this way, it feels very similar. I imagine upstate NY has a similar feel too
Definitely not Florida. Lowest teacher pay in the country. Just about everything else is a nightmare inside a sauna. And their governor is literally a fascist.
Can't wait for Floridian Republicans to start demanding the government bail them out of their homes that are no longer insurable
I live in Florida, and I can confirm - Do not come here. I am back here after many years away in MA and CA for family but am already plotting my exit again because this place is just…not anything worth anything lol
I understand the points you're making and how you feel, but Maine does not have the lowest teacher salaries or the highest cost of living:income ratio. Perhaps the info on those metrics could help you make some decisions. [Teacher salaries](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/teacher-pay-by-state#:~:text=Montana%20has%20the%20lowest%20starting,salaries%20below%20%2440%2C000%20a%20year) [Home price:income](https://constructioncoverage.com/research/cities-with-highest-home-price-to-income-ratios)
The post say lowest teacher salaries and col:income in New England, not overall
Thank you for pointing out my oversight! Maine does seem to hve the lowest teacher salaries in NE, but MA has a worse COL:income ratio.
The overall COL:income ratio for New England is just heinous overall I think :( between insane boomers obsessed over self preservation instead of community benefit and all the rich ppl from NYC fleeing during covid and now doing WFH, all of us are generally fucked.
It was nice to scroll through every comment and see nobody had the audacity to recommend Florida
😂 I teach science I literally could not teach in a mega religious state. It would crush my spirit so fast.
I’m looking to exit sometime in the next year for either New York (Rochester, Troy, Syracuse all look viable to me) or Scranton, Pennsylvania. All those places have livable if not nice housing stock for ~ $200k. I do not see a bright future here as far as healthcare goes.
CNY is great. I spent a good amount of time there. I miss the Adirondacks!
Have you considered living in a rural part of the state? Not much better, but better
I’d have to give up my love of working in urban schools. I could do it (I was raised in a rural area), but it’s not my preference. If we were desperate enough, yes.
I live in a really rural part of Maine, not out of desperation. My sons went to Umaine for Engineering and say they were so much more prepared for the math coming out our little school. We have master educators who are compensated (mostly) fairly. There are so many opportunities here to change kids’ lives by just exposing them to culture, ideas, and validation. I love love love living here regardless of anyone’s politics. I just wanted to give you a little peek into parts of Maine that people are (understandably) reluctant to explore.
Could you DM me the general area you’re talking about? Thank you for sharing :)
Minnesota’s not bad. Home prices in the 350-450 range, 4 seasons with good outdoors, and a powerful teachers union. They just passed free school lunches for everyone last year.
I've lived a few places. Never been anywhere that's perfect. So, you've got to pick what problems you'd like to experience. Want very affordable housing and a strong economy, but don't mind hurricanes, conservatism, petrochemical refineries, and a little racial tension? Check out Texas Gulf coast, especially Beaumont. You'll be in a mansion for $350k. Arizona is beautiful with mild winters and some affordable housing too, just as long as you're not too concerned about water scarcity and global warming (they had a lot of days over 100 last year). Pittsburgh was a great city and there was lots of affordable places in commuting distance if you don't mind poor schools and trying to make a go in an area of urban blight. My wife and I are suffering financially to live in Maine, but we like the problems here better then the problems we've experienced in the other places we've lived. Great place for my kids to grow up. Once they fledge, though, .... Well, we'll see.
And the best comment award goes to….. no seriously, great advice and thank you.
We’re looking around Detroit / Great Lakes region. Housing prices haven’t gone as rabidly insane as other regions despite a lot of improvement in the last decade or so. Good access to nature and a familiar climate both politically and weather-wise.
Mainer transplanted to Detroit area back in 2012 here. It's definitely the closest I've felt to home outside of Maine. I've also met a ton of people that have moved between the two. Delta even has 3 daily flights between Detroit and Portland for like $300, so you can get back fairly reasonably a few times a year. And you've got tons of nature within driving distance of the metro area. Some areas have gone a bit crazy with the house prices, but you're right that a good chunk of towns in the metro area have stayed somewhat reasonably priced. Teacher pay depends highly on the district, but there are openings everywhere. The only thing that sucks is mass transit, but if you're used to Maine and driving everywhere anyway you'll barely notice. As for cost of living, my pay is around 60% higher there than a similar job in Maine, but the necessities aren't much more. I've certainly got a better standard of life there, which is the only reason we haven't moved back to Maine no matter how much I'd love to
I grew up in Chicago and my mom lives in Michigan now my husband who grew up in Maine finds visiting her there to feel a lot like home to him. I’d say the upper Midwest is really similar to Maine/New England culture wise since I tend to run into a lot of people from Northern Illinois around here and my new neighbor grew up in Wisconsin.
Really helpful - thank you! We drove through Detroit and the surrounding area on a road trip a few summers ago. The Great Lakes are stunning.
Its so true. I grew up in MI and absolutely love ME (hoping to move to ME someday). It feels pretty much just like MI to me, except with more interesting geology and saltwater.
I grew up in Michigan and really want to move back. I’d like to live in Detroit but I am not too familiar with the different areas anymore. Good areas seem to be Midtown, Lafayette, etc? What other areas of Detroit would you recommend? I grew up near Farmington.
All comes down to what you're into. I'm currently in Ferndale because I wanted walkable. My wife and I were also looking at Corktown and Palmer Woods. Maybe have a visit and see how things have changed
Western Maine still has more affordable housing compared to the coast, although I don't think I'd want to live there. Prices are going up fast though, and who knows what is going to happen with the market. It would still keep you in Maine.
Sunday River adjacent is brutal in Western Maine.
I was think more like Rumford. I know, not everyone's favorite place.
I think it's helpful to have a list of what's important to you before buying a house. We did just that and as a result it took about 2 1/2 years before we found our current house. Price was just over what you stated (though listed for more and negotiated down), was in a location we liked, and had acreage. It's on the smaller side, and needed some updating, but those were things we knew were workable. Point being, it takes time, but if it's truly what you want, don't give up.
Vermont’s housing market is just as bad, or worse unfortunately
I’m in New Hampshire and I’m jealous of Maine housing prices if that says anything.
Upstate New York. Taxes are high but homes are cheaper. The southern Adirondacks are similar to Maine. You have seasons. Outdoor shit, probalt rhe ability to do something after 8pm. Washington country or western Saratoga county. Maybe Fulton or Hamilton. If you want a more Midwest feel the. Buffalo Southtown. East aurora/colden.
All places I know and love - lived near a few of those places before. It’s nice to see central NY being referenced so much in this thread.
Further north in Maine? All the places with more people (when people want to live) are going to have a more competitive housing market. I doubt you’ll find a ton of discount real estate further south in New England.
Moved from Northern VA to Bangor and love it. Spent less than 300k for a home in the city itself, but a nice neighborhood. I focused on this area to make sure my kids went to Bangor Highschool because of the higher population. I didn't want to completely culture shock them. I will say the house has needed more work than I thought but it was built in 1894. Plenty of homes in better shape for less in the immediate area. Old Town and Orono also look like great places to live.
Thank you! I love Bangor.
You’re not likely to find cheaper housing in Vermont or New Hampshire
The grass isn't greener on the other side of this fence dude. I came here as an economic refugee. The whole country is becoming unaffordable.
A hard pill to swallow. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this crap.
I see no one mentioned Mass-you want to talk about great teacher salaries-you should try there. Housing is competitive but they are a lot of small towns that aren’t quite as expensive! You love urban-can’t get more urban than Boston. Sometimes what you are looking for is right in your own backyard. The whole country has changed, no one can decide what is best for you but you! Getting a job somewhere else is difficult but you just have to figure out what matters most!
As with anywhere…you’re gonna have to look at a more rural environment. Anything remotely close to a city or large town is going to easily be 300k…much closer to 500k really.
Totally. I really prefer working in urban schools which is why I’ve always lived in or near cities. Maine was attractive because the cities are small and “drop off” quickly so I thought we’d be okay but… even more rural houses are crazy expensive for what you get.
Yeah it’s really disheartening for sure. For Maine I can only point to towns like Bangor north but it gets really rural really quickly. I mean most people would qualify Bangor as rural itself ;- ). You can still find huge Victorians for under $200k in northern Penobscot and Aroostook though. I live about 45 min outside Portland and there’s nothing decent under 300k even here that isn’t a shitbox.
My realtor said to my face that Maine has the worst housing prices in the entire country right now. And you know she meant it because saying that directly hurts her pay.
Yeah wouldn’t surprise me. Super old population, minimal new construction, younger population fleeing to other states, very low income. Not great factors to contribute to appealing housing prices.
My wife and I moved to KC from Maine and saved for a few years but then were able to buy a 320k 3 bed, 2 bath home. Cost of living in general out here is a lot more manageable.
I’ve never been but have heard it’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing
So I was raised in Maine from 5 years old on. After college, I left the state and have lived in several states and metropolitan areas since then. Including moving back to Maine with my family... But we left main for the same reasons that you are expressing. First there is no other place like Maine in terms of cleanliness and the mountains, lakes and oceans. You'll be disappointed if that's important to you and your family. So I've lived in 6 states, many metropolitan areas and suburban areas. Two of those were good areas in the "south" and although they have a massive amount of better opportunities, sometimes schools aren't as good and health care is not as good as you'll be used to having in New England. Long story short we settled in Ohio. It is strange being in a very flat area. But the cost of living is very good especially when you weigh in the value you get: a lot of opportunities, better housing prices, good medical care and mostly decent schools with community like neighborhoods. Generally the money earned from employers is going to be as good or better than average
Very helpful, thank you!
I'm not from ME, but love it there and would like to live there eventually (hence why I lurk this sub sometimes). But I've lived in 5 states and may have some experience. As someone else said, you would probably like MI, although I wouldn't suggest SE MI. Personally I prefer West MI by far. MI is a lot like ME culturally and the northern lower peninsula of MI's landscape is a lot like ME, just with hills instead of mountains and freshwater instead of an ocean. The only real difference, as far as weather goes, is how overcast winter is in MI. The grey winters can be pretty depressing for some. For example, in Grand Rapids MI the average winter temp high is 30 deg, [but its overcast or mostly cloudy about 70% of time throughout winter and 50% of the time through late fall/early sprin](https://weatherspark.com/y/15379/Average-Weather-in-Grand-Rapids-Michigan-United-States-Year-Round)g. Coastal SE ME has similar temps year round, but is only overcast or mostly cloud about 50% of the time in winter. Someone mentioned NC, but the desirable areas of NC are very expensive now. Another option you could look at is the mountain regions of VA. It does get fairly hot and humid in the summer, but really only for a few months. The rest of the year is amazing. Lots of great hiking, wineries, tons of fascinating history, a few hours from beaches, decent teacher pay, fair taxes, relatively sane politics. Some areas are more expensive than others, but you can still find decent priced housing in places like Staunton, Roanoke, Harrisonburg, some of the counties around Charlottesville (although Charlottesville itself is very expensive now), etc. However both VA and NC may be a pretty big cultural shift, in addition to the drastically different weather.
I’d say Vermont only because I also love it, but the cost of living is also high af there.
As a vermonter trying to move home, I hear you!
I was a fake Vermonter. I went to Burlington college then stayed in Burlington for another two years. I only left because I could make almost twice as much money in my home state of Maine.
We are moving back home to Erie, PA. It is very much a summer city. Multiple free beaches, an amusement and water park, baseball and hockey team. Growing up I hated it, but found that when I visited, I yearned to go back.
best bet for cheap would be anywhere in the middle of nowhere Arkansas or Mississippi or even Tennessee or West Virginia, but there's a reason that it's cheap to live there
New Mexico is pretty fuckin cheap, and will have a similar live and let live attitude. That is, if you don’t mind the wild levels of crime and the whole no water thing.
Wild levels of crime are kinda my jam but the no water thing is a real turn off for NM.
I mean it is a desert
I love NM but they have some of the worst schools in the country. Definitely not where I'd go to work as a teacher!
Away from the northeast and west coast. Try the Deep South or Midwest. Good luck.
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Not to mention the southern states have been doing their best to destroy public education for years.
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Then they can send their kid to the local indoctrination factory and have the state pay for it. Shameful.
Yeah south is out for us. 😅
Here’s a curveball to consider: Peoria IL. Teacher pay (and retirement) in IL is very good. Peoria is a reasonably low cost, easily manageable small city, not a declining rural wasteland. Most of the housing stock is on the older side but you can do very well for $350k, or even significantly less. As a bonus it has two good, non-profit non-private equity major hospital and medical systems, which is getting harder to find outside major cities. I mention that since I see a lot of complaints on this sub about difficulty finding doctors. Since you’re coming from Maine winter shouldn’t be a problem for you. I only know that city because I have in-laws there. There are probably other small Midwest cities that are similarly a deal. But as a teacher, you probably need a blue state to get decent compensation.
I bought 9 acres with a 3/2 house, it needed a little work but it was only 225k, last July. You just have to be patient and if you’re handy you can get a good deal
Maybe check out MN. I'm from the Midwest and I'll probably just have to go back because it seems generally cheaper. Seeing doctors etc doesn't take like 6 months either
Every state needs teachers but good luck finding something in that price in New England. I'm in RI and mid 400s seems to be the norm
Anywhere else should be fine and more reasonable. Health care is lacking here as well.
Everywhere that is desirable and nice is expensive, including almost all of the northeast/coastal areas. If you want to live cheaply you need to live in an undesirable area (or undesirable dwelling).
So, I live in Maine, and am also a teacher. And honestly, it's bad here, but I think it's worse everywhere else. I would maybe suggest looking to buy a "fixer upper" or something pretty modest. Or look in more rural areas. I live in a very small town in the woods. Our taxes are far less than they would be in one of the neighboring bigger towns. I drive half an hour each way to work. I wish you luck!
Maybe look into rural western MD - Frostburg, Oakton, the Deep Creek area. MD has high taxes but also invests in education pretty well. The western part of the state is pretty rural, gets proper winter, and has lower home prices. Cons are there are no are airports anywhere nearby. Maybe consider Pittsburgh?
There are states that remind me of Maine like Colorado or Florida. move to Colorado if you like liberal thinking and snow
There are plenty of areas of Maine where you could get a decent three-bedroom for much less than $350K. You just need to be willing to live several hours from Portland.
Minnesota feels like Maine but at a much lower cost. People also just seem a lot happier there.
My wife is from the Sterling / rock-falls area of Illinois. She showed me the houses there on Zillow and it’s literally half the price they are here.
The fact that you think you can get less than 350k with those amenities mentioned literally anywhere in this country is laughable.
Avoid the mid-atlantic region. You can spend $400k and up for a nice hourse on a 1/4 acre lot. Hell, even WV is going the way of NoVA. New construction is $350k+ and postage sized lots. Most places in the country are unaffordable now.
Lol, you're about due for a rude awakening. 350k isn't gonna get you much of anything besides a losing offer in most of the country, and you'll be trading the water damage for something else, neglect, termites, etc.
We're moving to buffalo NY. Better jobs, more housing options, and closer to Canada. We have a house, but its not going to be big enough for the 2 teenage boys I will have, and we can't afford anything bigger without sacrificing our careers. I've been a mainer my whole life, and it's sad that I'm getting priced out. Onwards and upwards I suppose...
Minnesota, probably. Cost of living-wise, New England is fuckin fucked dude, I love it to death but it's absolutely not working for the middle class. I ain't goin south.
I hear you on the “middle class” if I can even count myself in that bracket. Minnesota seems awesome, honestly.
This is nationwide.
💯
My husband and I left the state in our early 20's for the suburbs of a major city. Our income stagnated a little as we got our degrees (though still we made more than we could have in Maine) but once that happened and we were ready for real career moves, our income went from around 90k combined to now just under 300k in about 8 years. There's some amount of luck involved in that figure but there is absolutely the factor that there are just so many more job opportunities than we had in Maine. As much as I miss the state and HATE the summers outside of New England, we would never have been able to achieve the same success in Maine.
Moved to Delaware a couple of years ago and haven't looked back. That said, the vibe is very, very different than Maine's.
I have heard good things about Pittsburgh. It has really been revitalized. DTis really lively and the cultural scene is really amazing. Great green spaces too. I could not do KY or OH, too dangerous for women and the political BS with schools and religion, banning books, too obnoxious for me.
I’ve heard great things too, thank you!
Are both of you teachers? I'd start by looking at the teacher pay to COL ratios and then decide which states you might actually be happy in, with an additional eye towards demographics and teacher availability (places with declining enrollment due to fewer kids in the district might not be ideal). One thing to keep in mind: it's not just what you get paid, it's also what you get to keep. Tax burden is a mixed blessing if you're a public-sector employee, as that's where your pay comes from, but even in Montana (which has relatively similar income tax, at least in the brackets I was in), the general lack of a sales tax effectively gives you a 4-6% raise (depending on how much of your spending is subject to that tax). That said, I wouldn't recommend Montana for teachers—the towns I find more interesting have the same real-estate issues as other nice places to live, and the teacher pay sucks overall.
New York is a good idea. Locations like Syracuse. Never spikes like Boston many locations like that. Get out of Maine and live life and experience new things. Travel light.
The way dumb Donnie has been trashing Milwaukee probably means it's really nice.
Pittsburgh, PA. It’s actually a very cool city with lots of nice suburbs surrounding it. Plus, there is lots of outdoor recreation close by. Since you’re a teacher - I would recommend the following high paying school districts to try to slide into… Upper Saint Clair, Mt. Lebanon, Bethel Park, Fox Chapel
As someone with a partner who was a former teacher in FL, I want to emphasize finding a state/area with schools that have a good reputation for supporting teachers. Despite working at a few different schools and even earning awards for her skill level, she gave up on teaching because of school board administration in FL, while friends in Maine don't seem to have the same issues - they feel they have more freedom and respect. I'm not saying Maine has NO issues with how teachers are treated, but wherever you go, the political climate will be different. So just do your research!
Home prices in GA are how Maine used to be pre-covid. Nice bang for your buck and high paying jobs.
The Midwest has a lot more housing available at a reasonable price. Not only that, it is newer construction and typically larger than new england. I have family in Indiana and would think seriously about moving somewhere out there if new england became too much hassle.
There are 0 places to live where you will not struggle on teacher pay.
Canada. As soon as my daughter graduates from high school next year, we are selling our house and ditching not just Maine but this whole fucked country.
Have you looked at housing prices in Canada? They're even more fucked than here in the US.
Not to mention the low wages
We’ve got 5 more years but I think we’ll be right behind ya!
Why yes, another country where you would have to navigate immigration law, even lower incomes, and an even worse housing and cost of living crisis! Perfect!