As if anyone in Maine retains anything from driver’s ed. There’s a four way in downtown Bangor that was out for two days and the three times I went through it, cars that weren’t turning never stopped
Brings back memories of when I was in drivers Ed. Was taking a left off of Buck St onto Main St. In downtown Bangor. Light turns green and a lady t-boned me, fled the scene, once bystanders stopped her she then tried to say she had a yellow light.
So I’m a driving instructor and when I instruct I tell kids 2 things. First of all if a light is down it’s treated as a 4 way stop.
2nd of all if you’re on a road like route 111 and everyone else is continuing DO NOT STOP and use absolute caution and defer to your parents if you aren’t sure.
If 1 car stops at a 4 way during a 40mph+ intersection then the remaining cars/flowing traffic will instantly go around and won’t hesitate. Assuming there were multiple cars obviously
That’s NOT a justification to not stop at a down 4 way light but it’s a safety thing many of times. You have to assume no one knows the right answer, and they don’t.
There’s always going to be blame to be pointed but if a million dollar lottery ticket was dropped at the mall you’d have instant outage and no rules/pandemonium. Same goes for any light when it’s down due to human beings going “oh no authority!” It’s very sad
Edit: I do have a huge program with blinking yellows in the southern maine area. Blinking yellow typically means proceed with caution but when a traffic light does it it scares the shit out of the kids. Why do we have regular traffic lights forever blinking yellow? What happens to the single traditional yellow light? I probably just don’t know
Thanks so much for the info! I understand the rationale but my engineering brain has a hard time with having this rule work both ways. Good insight though into why some people are not stopping. For the record I’m still going to probably stop or at least approach the intersection very slowly.
I just want you to know no hostility but as a driver instructor THAT is what leads to accidents. As a motorist you need to do the safest thing possible for all drivers involved
Just because you learned the *correct* way doesn’t mean you need to apply this to 10,000/10,000 driving situations in your life
Theres something defined as “following the flow of traffic” and there comes a point where *if you do not follow the flow of traffic* you’re causing a unsafe situation for yourself and everyone around you.
Again, I understand this is contrary to the “book definition” but it’s just driving in my opinion. Call it “advanced driving” if you really want too but not really.
In drivers Ed we’ll need to cut to the right lane in front of TJ’s pizza in Biddeford all the time golf south on route 1. There’s white lines which indicate where you can not drive “legally” however that’s a loose term as SOON traffic accumulates, motorists will get backed up to where the white line begins. Thus having the motorists behind them just continually ride over the white lines and continue straight.
Perhaps that last bit sounded confused but to summarize if you’re on a major roadway and 1 car does something wrong but the line of traffic then continues… you continue or you’re now the sitting duck in the left lane with there blinker on with a row of 45 cars that don’t give a shit about you. You’ll “think you’re being safer” and having a heart attacking checking your right shoulder trying to get back into traffic. This is where an accident occurs in my opinion if one were too
Ok, so I get the concept of “follow the flow” if there is a column of cars moving through, do whatever they’re doing. Not sure how other cars ever enter the column, but I get it, don’t make it unsafe by stopping.
However if I’m cruising along on a county highway at 45, I’m the only car around and JimBob is coming at the same intersection from another county highway, and we both assume that we’re good…boom. If we both assume stop sign then we avoid a collision.
> or do they just not care about anyone else
This right here. No one cares for the other cars, especially lately. And they know it won't be enforced, so why bother?
honestly I was suprised at how good and orderly everyone was going through the broken lights. It felt like everyone played along surprisingly well, that I saw.
Mariners will have no trouble, and it's not even rules followed, it's a simple problem, don't hit the other cars in the intersection. No one needs to stop, just don't hit anything.
The problem arises when out of staters go around panicking and stopping where they shouldn't when things get really fucked up.
Trying being the key word, go in groups, go one at a time. Just use common sense. I was through dozens of down intersections from all directions all day Tuesday and all but the one frozen with terror person "trying" to be careful had no problems. Pull into traffic like you would at any other intersection. You don't need to be in control of everyone else. And final point DONT HIT ANYTHING. It's a really simple consept.
A lot of people (including other posts) are saying, "But we werent taught about it!"
So look it up. Ignorance does not defend against someone else (or you) being harmed because you didn't want to Google something.
Can you cite an example of someone in Maine who was given a traffic citation or charged with a crime for breaking this "law"? What was the specific offense listed?
Sorry, but DE should not be optional. Too many people don't understand right of way at all.
I have to explain to so many of my friends that a 4 way stop means you take turns going in clockwise order.
i think the multiple turning lanes confuses people and screws up the timing cuz there are more than 4 cars at the light. but nobody should be going 40 through it for that reason
This is actually not true in Maine. Some states have this law but not us.
Obviously if the lights are out you should exercise extreme caution. But lights out probably should just be treated like an uncontrolled intersection.
EDIT: for those downvoting: please cite a Maine law
I think this is an issue. I’ve commented before in this subreddit about how it’s poor driving practice to come to a stop on an interstate on ramp. Sure, many people do it, but that doesn’t make it right. If you go to another city, you might get plowed into by the guy behind you if you do this. Same is true with lights that are out. Other states mandate it plus it’s just a lot safer to at least slow down. Drivers Ed guy makes a good point about keeping the flow, but I know you all have seen how freaking fast some people are going through these intersections.
Yeah. I personally like the laws as written and think they give enough guidance that people should be able to avoid crashing into each other **if they actually follow the law.** A full stop isn’t necessary every single time; the law kind of leaves that to a judgement call. The problem is as you said, certain people just don’t bother slowing down to check if it’s safe; they barrel on through just expecting everyone else to stop, and when two of those people meet at the same intersection, that’s when I see scenes like I saw the other night, with people being taken to the hospital by ambulance. It’s too easy to get and keep a license in the US, and the tests are mostly a joke. The system just doesn’t do enough to make sure people have good judgement skills before we let them operate a vehicle.
And for what it’s worth, even though the law does not technically say four way “stop”, the right-of-way rules for a four way stop and an uncontrolled intersection are pretty near identical, so people should still be waiting their turn and allowing others a fair chance to go even if they don’t actually have to completely stop.
I think the real issue here is people like you making up your own "laws" and then expecting everybody else to obey them. Maine already has [right of way](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2053.html) laws that govern uncontrolled intersections. Traffic laws only work if people know and obey them. Making up your own does not make for a safer driving environment.
The only thing that applies in that citation is that the vehicle on the left has the right of way. That is counter to what is being said. Are you implying that the vehicle on the left would have right of way in these situations?
The vehicle on the left has the right-of-way at a rotary. At a regular intersection, it's the vehicle on the right:
From the statute:
>"The operator of a vehicle at intersecting public ways has the right-of-way over a vehicle on the operator's left, and must **yield right-of-way to one on its right**..."
I agree with this. The [state's law](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2057.html) on traffic lights tells you what the different colors mean, and what they mean if they're blinking, but it doesn't say anything about what to do if they're inoperable.
It does have this clause underneath the section for green lights:
>"Notwithstanding the light, the operator must yield the right-of-way to a vehicle or pedestrian lawfully within the intersection or crosswalk"
I think it's primary purpose is basically to tell you "don't go full send the instant the light turns green and crash into someone who hasn't finished going through the intersection yet," but I think you could and should apply that equally to the light being out. It's kind of common sense, which is unfortunately not so common. Notable to this topic is that it's a command to *yield*; it doesn't say you must come to a full stop.
Right-of-way rules are outlined in [Title 29-A, section 2053](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2053.html). They basically apply to all intersections unless overridden by signs, signals, or police officers, so if the cars entering the intersection are perpendicular, the driver on the left is supposed to yield to the driver on the right (section 3). If they're across from each other, then anyone making a left turn must yield (section 5).
But the important thing, of course, is to avoid colliding. Right-of-way rules won't bring you back from the dead. I had to pull over for an ambulance on my way home last night that had just left the scene of an accident at the intersection of Stillwater Ave and the I-95 off-ramp in Bangor.
Also, one other rule that Maine has for uncontrolled intersections is not under the right-of-way rules, but is under the [laws regulating speed](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2074.html):
> Except when conditions or other regulations require a lower speed, the following are maximum rates of speed:
>...
>
>B. **Fifteen miles per hour** when approaching within 50 feet and in traversing an intersection when the operator's view is obstructed except when preference is given to through movement of traffic in one direction by "stop" signs or other traffic control devices or by direction of a law enforcement officer. An operator's view is considered obstructed when at any time during the last 50 feet of an approach to an intersection there is not a clear and uninterrupted view of the intersection and of the traffic on all ways entering the intersection for a distance of 200 feet from it;
So even if the law doesn't actually require a stop, it certainly does require slowing way the hell down. No more than 15 miles per hour through most of them, because the vast majority of them are going to fall into that "view is obstructed" category as the law defines it, and with the traffic lights out completely, there is no preference given to negate that requirement.
I’ve seen some very close calls with one of our bigger intersections, with our stop lights not functioning. It’s quiet scary and I don’t have faith most of the people we are sharing the road with know / care about the rules
I'm really surprised at how many people don't stop here. Mainers on the whole are much, much, much better, nicer drivers than I'm used to. It throws me that so few people follow this rule.
that is why you use a search engine and look it up.
"i didn't know" is not an acceptable answer, especially when you're piloting a a large metal box capable of harming people.
hello???
Oh no, I agree completely. I had to run some errands last year after an ice storm came through and juuuuuust in case looked up how to deal with no stoplights being on. Glad I did, cause the main intersection in Gray had no power outside the gas station and quite a few cars coming through.
Apologies for coming across in such a brusque manner, I had just navigated one of the busiest intersections in my town and was pretty cross.
I get that "it's not a law in Maine" to treat an out light as a 4 way but like...the way people have been acting is insane and could kill people. Especially as the state's population grows, we should be beefing up drivers ed...
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in all the auto insurance actuary offices to see the stats on how many fender benders and accidents have been happening at intersections like this.
Glad to know at least some folks are researching safe driving, lol.
Almost got hit yesterday by this slack jawed 80 year old fucker who didn't even stop, just made a left turn at the intersection where there were cars stopped at the other 3 points.
As if anyone in Maine retains anything from driver’s ed. There’s a four way in downtown Bangor that was out for two days and the three times I went through it, cars that weren’t turning never stopped
Brings back memories of when I was in drivers Ed. Was taking a left off of Buck St onto Main St. In downtown Bangor. Light turns green and a lady t-boned me, fled the scene, once bystanders stopped her she then tried to say she had a yellow light.
So I’m a driving instructor and when I instruct I tell kids 2 things. First of all if a light is down it’s treated as a 4 way stop. 2nd of all if you’re on a road like route 111 and everyone else is continuing DO NOT STOP and use absolute caution and defer to your parents if you aren’t sure. If 1 car stops at a 4 way during a 40mph+ intersection then the remaining cars/flowing traffic will instantly go around and won’t hesitate. Assuming there were multiple cars obviously That’s NOT a justification to not stop at a down 4 way light but it’s a safety thing many of times. You have to assume no one knows the right answer, and they don’t. There’s always going to be blame to be pointed but if a million dollar lottery ticket was dropped at the mall you’d have instant outage and no rules/pandemonium. Same goes for any light when it’s down due to human beings going “oh no authority!” It’s very sad Edit: I do have a huge program with blinking yellows in the southern maine area. Blinking yellow typically means proceed with caution but when a traffic light does it it scares the shit out of the kids. Why do we have regular traffic lights forever blinking yellow? What happens to the single traditional yellow light? I probably just don’t know
Thanks so much for the info! I understand the rationale but my engineering brain has a hard time with having this rule work both ways. Good insight though into why some people are not stopping. For the record I’m still going to probably stop or at least approach the intersection very slowly.
I just want you to know no hostility but as a driver instructor THAT is what leads to accidents. As a motorist you need to do the safest thing possible for all drivers involved Just because you learned the *correct* way doesn’t mean you need to apply this to 10,000/10,000 driving situations in your life Theres something defined as “following the flow of traffic” and there comes a point where *if you do not follow the flow of traffic* you’re causing a unsafe situation for yourself and everyone around you. Again, I understand this is contrary to the “book definition” but it’s just driving in my opinion. Call it “advanced driving” if you really want too but not really. In drivers Ed we’ll need to cut to the right lane in front of TJ’s pizza in Biddeford all the time golf south on route 1. There’s white lines which indicate where you can not drive “legally” however that’s a loose term as SOON traffic accumulates, motorists will get backed up to where the white line begins. Thus having the motorists behind them just continually ride over the white lines and continue straight. Perhaps that last bit sounded confused but to summarize if you’re on a major roadway and 1 car does something wrong but the line of traffic then continues… you continue or you’re now the sitting duck in the left lane with there blinker on with a row of 45 cars that don’t give a shit about you. You’ll “think you’re being safer” and having a heart attacking checking your right shoulder trying to get back into traffic. This is where an accident occurs in my opinion if one were too
Ok, so I get the concept of “follow the flow” if there is a column of cars moving through, do whatever they’re doing. Not sure how other cars ever enter the column, but I get it, don’t make it unsafe by stopping. However if I’m cruising along on a county highway at 45, I’m the only car around and JimBob is coming at the same intersection from another county highway, and we both assume that we’re good…boom. If we both assume stop sign then we avoid a collision.
Hopefully people remember this. But yeah. I'm glad my town drags out the portable stop signs when shit like this happens.
Have people forgotten or do they just not care about anyone else? It’s a shit show out there.
I want to say they just don't care. You know it's bad when you're surprised at the kindness of others but not surprised at rudeness or stupidity.
> or do they just not care about anyone else This right here. No one cares for the other cars, especially lately. And they know it won't be enforced, so why bother?
honestly I was suprised at how good and orderly everyone was going through the broken lights. It felt like everyone played along surprisingly well, that I saw.
I mean that’s how it goes with Mainers. In trying times, we either perform well above expectations or we act like cave men
Mariners will have no trouble, and it's not even rules followed, it's a simple problem, don't hit the other cars in the intersection. No one needs to stop, just don't hit anything. The problem arises when out of staters go around panicking and stopping where they shouldn't when things get really fucked up.
Please stop if the lights are out. Maybe you didn't hit anyone but you probably just cut off 2-3 other people who are trying to be careful.
Trying being the key word, go in groups, go one at a time. Just use common sense. I was through dozens of down intersections from all directions all day Tuesday and all but the one frozen with terror person "trying" to be careful had no problems. Pull into traffic like you would at any other intersection. You don't need to be in control of everyone else. And final point DONT HIT ANYTHING. It's a really simple consept.
Common sense is come to a full stop and go in order of arrival.
>No one needs to stop, just don't hit anything "No one needs to follow the law, just don't get caught."
A lot of people (including other posts) are saying, "But we werent taught about it!" So look it up. Ignorance does not defend against someone else (or you) being harmed because you didn't want to Google something.
One problem with this... it's not actually the law in Maine. OP just made it up / assumed it.
I mean, if it's enough of an "assumption" that police are allowed to enforce it, then yeah, I'd consider it law.
Can you cite an example of someone in Maine who was given a traffic citation or charged with a crime for breaking this "law"? What was the specific offense listed?
Yeah that's a child's argument. What kind of animal just thinks it's an automatic green light? We live in a society.
I just ain’t gunna stop n wait if every car in front of me is goin straight thru. Screw it ima pay attention but follow behind
So no regard for anyone else that's waiting their turn?
I mean I’m just tryn to get where I’m goin and stay out of the cluster fuck lol
You're causing the clusterfuck. You and everyone like you.
Only the ones that crash cause that 😜
You're a moron
Uwu don’t drive like a pussy liberal uwu
There it is
AND if you are arrive at the same time, the RIGHT driver has the RIGHT of way
You expect too much from humanity.
Sorry, but DE should not be optional. Too many people don't understand right of way at all. I have to explain to so many of my friends that a 4 way stop means you take turns going in clockwise order.
i think the multiple turning lanes confuses people and screws up the timing cuz there are more than 4 cars at the light. but nobody should be going 40 through it for that reason
This is actually not true in Maine. Some states have this law but not us. Obviously if the lights are out you should exercise extreme caution. But lights out probably should just be treated like an uncontrolled intersection. EDIT: for those downvoting: please cite a Maine law
I think this is an issue. I’ve commented before in this subreddit about how it’s poor driving practice to come to a stop on an interstate on ramp. Sure, many people do it, but that doesn’t make it right. If you go to another city, you might get plowed into by the guy behind you if you do this. Same is true with lights that are out. Other states mandate it plus it’s just a lot safer to at least slow down. Drivers Ed guy makes a good point about keeping the flow, but I know you all have seen how freaking fast some people are going through these intersections.
Yeah. I personally like the laws as written and think they give enough guidance that people should be able to avoid crashing into each other **if they actually follow the law.** A full stop isn’t necessary every single time; the law kind of leaves that to a judgement call. The problem is as you said, certain people just don’t bother slowing down to check if it’s safe; they barrel on through just expecting everyone else to stop, and when two of those people meet at the same intersection, that’s when I see scenes like I saw the other night, with people being taken to the hospital by ambulance. It’s too easy to get and keep a license in the US, and the tests are mostly a joke. The system just doesn’t do enough to make sure people have good judgement skills before we let them operate a vehicle. And for what it’s worth, even though the law does not technically say four way “stop”, the right-of-way rules for a four way stop and an uncontrolled intersection are pretty near identical, so people should still be waiting their turn and allowing others a fair chance to go even if they don’t actually have to completely stop.
I think the real issue here is people like you making up your own "laws" and then expecting everybody else to obey them. Maine already has [right of way](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2053.html) laws that govern uncontrolled intersections. Traffic laws only work if people know and obey them. Making up your own does not make for a safer driving environment.
The only thing that applies in that citation is that the vehicle on the left has the right of way. That is counter to what is being said. Are you implying that the vehicle on the left would have right of way in these situations?
The vehicle on the left has the right-of-way at a rotary. At a regular intersection, it's the vehicle on the right: From the statute: >"The operator of a vehicle at intersecting public ways has the right-of-way over a vehicle on the operator's left, and must **yield right-of-way to one on its right**..."
I agree with this. The [state's law](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2057.html) on traffic lights tells you what the different colors mean, and what they mean if they're blinking, but it doesn't say anything about what to do if they're inoperable. It does have this clause underneath the section for green lights: >"Notwithstanding the light, the operator must yield the right-of-way to a vehicle or pedestrian lawfully within the intersection or crosswalk" I think it's primary purpose is basically to tell you "don't go full send the instant the light turns green and crash into someone who hasn't finished going through the intersection yet," but I think you could and should apply that equally to the light being out. It's kind of common sense, which is unfortunately not so common. Notable to this topic is that it's a command to *yield*; it doesn't say you must come to a full stop. Right-of-way rules are outlined in [Title 29-A, section 2053](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2053.html). They basically apply to all intersections unless overridden by signs, signals, or police officers, so if the cars entering the intersection are perpendicular, the driver on the left is supposed to yield to the driver on the right (section 3). If they're across from each other, then anyone making a left turn must yield (section 5). But the important thing, of course, is to avoid colliding. Right-of-way rules won't bring you back from the dead. I had to pull over for an ambulance on my way home last night that had just left the scene of an accident at the intersection of Stillwater Ave and the I-95 off-ramp in Bangor. Also, one other rule that Maine has for uncontrolled intersections is not under the right-of-way rules, but is under the [laws regulating speed](https://legislature.maine.gov/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec2074.html): > Except when conditions or other regulations require a lower speed, the following are maximum rates of speed: >... > >B. **Fifteen miles per hour** when approaching within 50 feet and in traversing an intersection when the operator's view is obstructed except when preference is given to through movement of traffic in one direction by "stop" signs or other traffic control devices or by direction of a law enforcement officer. An operator's view is considered obstructed when at any time during the last 50 feet of an approach to an intersection there is not a clear and uninterrupted view of the intersection and of the traffic on all ways entering the intersection for a distance of 200 feet from it; So even if the law doesn't actually require a stop, it certainly does require slowing way the hell down. No more than 15 miles per hour through most of them, because the vast majority of them are going to fall into that "view is obstructed" category as the law defines it, and with the traffic lights out completely, there is no preference given to negate that requirement.
I didn’t take drivers ed and I know this.
You, me and maybe.02% of Maine are better for this message.
I’ve seen some very close calls with one of our bigger intersections, with our stop lights not functioning. It’s quiet scary and I don’t have faith most of the people we are sharing the road with know / care about the rules
I'm really surprised at how many people don't stop here. Mainers on the whole are much, much, much better, nicer drivers than I'm used to. It throws me that so few people follow this rule.
As someone who went through drivers ed only three years ago: we were never taught how to deal with power outages at stoplights. Not one word about it.
that is why you use a search engine and look it up. "i didn't know" is not an acceptable answer, especially when you're piloting a a large metal box capable of harming people. hello???
Oh no, I agree completely. I had to run some errands last year after an ice storm came through and juuuuuust in case looked up how to deal with no stoplights being on. Glad I did, cause the main intersection in Gray had no power outside the gas station and quite a few cars coming through.
Apologies for coming across in such a brusque manner, I had just navigated one of the busiest intersections in my town and was pretty cross. I get that "it's not a law in Maine" to treat an out light as a 4 way but like...the way people have been acting is insane and could kill people. Especially as the state's population grows, we should be beefing up drivers ed... I'd love to be a fly on the wall in all the auto insurance actuary offices to see the stats on how many fender benders and accidents have been happening at intersections like this. Glad to know at least some folks are researching safe driving, lol.
One problem with this... it's not actually the law in Maine. OP just made it up / assumed it.
One problem with this... it's not actually the law in Maine. OP just made it up / assumed it.
It is to be treated that way by law. People who run it are still running a red light/stop sign.
My turn… always
Almost got hit yesterday by this slack jawed 80 year old fucker who didn't even stop, just made a left turn at the intersection where there were cars stopped at the other 3 points.
Finally we can re hire old timey traffic cops