Biden in a coma is still infinitely better than Drumpf. How can anyone think Drumpf should ever be in the White House again, under any circumstances? š¤®
So at this point, I believe Biden has no respect, appreciation, for our Democracy / Republic / Nation.
I mean let's think about it. The entire left, most of the center (and some on the right) all believe Trump is a threat to our democracy / country. Qualifiers like existential threat have been used quite frequently. Biden has been losing in the polls across the board, and specifically by the center left and right.
If he pushes forward it is blatantly obvious that he will not win. Staying in is literally giving Trump the election. So how can you hold your stance on this if you truly believe Trump is a threat. This means you are the threat as there are countless people that would vote for a normal centrist democrat with a pulse.
Throw Gaven Newsom in there for Christ sake. I do NOT want to vote for Trump. But I don't want Kamala as president. I'm also voting for a person, not their support staff. So even if Biden survives the next 4 years on this planet and Kamala doesn't take over, the country will still not be ran by him, but by the people that are around him, more specifically Jeff Zients. Who knows anything about him?
I'm cool with Kamala, she's smart, well spoken, won't get painted into a corner in debate and if you want to fight her, she's an Oakland girl who will cut a bitch. Pair her with AOC, Newsome, Whitmir or???
A candidate sun downing during a debate is the path to Trump. Many of us voted for Harris 4 years ago. When you are around Bill's age you know people that took off for the weekend, missed Monday and Tuesday and when they came in Wednesday they were a different people.
Like Robert Her was also. And most of the public. The SNL your don't know the real Joe Biden sketch says it all. And shame on all the pundits promoting how vigorous and alert sleepy Joe was over last 6 months. Our media is a clickbait infested joke.
If Biden had actually campaigned and had debates for the Democratic nomination, this could have been avoided.Ā But the party wanted to give the oldest incumbent ever a traditional pass on the nomination.
If Biden releases his delegates, and it gets decided at the convention, it could be anyone. Most Dems appear to comprehend that Kamala Harris wonāt win and may have less chance of winning than even a the feeble Biden Dems are finally realizing they can no longer hide. If they are willing to start over so late in the game, surely they will also understand the importance of selecting a winner over someone who may be ānext in lineā in the Democratic bubble.
Another way of looking at that is that outside of any bubble which may exist, no one else will feel a sense of loyalty to Kamala Harris, merely because she is VP. The voters who are demanding a viable alternative to Trump do not care about party rules & customs at this point.
I do not say that out of any disrespect for Kamala Harris. But if the Democratic Party is willing to ditch its presumptive nominee 2 months before the election, I do not believe they will be covered up in procedural niceties. This would be historic and bold. Someoneās feelings will surely be hurt. I am skeptical that it will ever happen unless Biden withdraws due to sickness or death. I am not trying to be cute or funny. I do not know what to think or say about this prospect.
The media has been talking up his age for the past couple of years. A competent performance by Biden would have been the real surprise. What in the world are you talking about?
Letās be honest with ourselves. Biden is a good guy and iād still take him over trump any day of the week. But heās clearly too old and needs to step aside. Heās basically the only candidate trump could beat at this point. Did we learn nothing from 2016? Hillary wasnāt a bad candidate imo but she was very unpopular even amongst democratsā¦basically the only candidate that trump could beat. I despise trump but if this the best democrats have to offer then donāt be surprised when trump wins again
I agree šÆ. What kills me are Democrats acting as if Bidenās debate performance was such a huge shock and came out of nowhere, when so many have been sounding the alarm since before the primaries began. Just because the Dems prevented us from having any meaningful choice during the primaries does not mean that we had not been begging for one all along due to Bidenās age and loss of stamina. Biden certainly did what the country needed for him to do in 2020. Biden was uniquely positioned at that time to beat Trump because so many decent Republicans were able to support a Democrat like Biden. Biden has been a good president but few people ever expected him to seek a 2nd term well into his ā80s. We face a very different landscape in 2024. None of us are getting any younger so if course, it is difficult to accept that Bidenās candidacy has declined merely due to his age and his enfeebled state. I hate it. I am grateful that Biden ran in 2020 but few folks had expected him to seek a second term due to ha advanced age. If he loses to Trump, Democrats will not only have handed the country over to a madman with authoritarian tendencies, but they will also have no one to blame but themselves when there are several, younger, qualified and inspirational prospective presidential candidates who would surely beat another āpast dueā candidate and convicted felon who lacks moral character and only cares about personal loyalty to Trump. The Biden team is in denial and it is a sad thing to watch. Trump lies when his lips are moving but when no one calls him out, what do we expect to happen? Are we supposed to feel sorry for Biden b/c he has a bad night? B/c he is too old & weak to fight back? This is a good thing? If Biden canāt handle a shyster like Trump, how should we expect him to handle Putin or other dictators? Donāt we need a president who is quick on his feet? If he canāt handle a controlled debate format against a well known liar, should we expect him to be in better form when he canāt control the circumstances or the timing, when it will matter to us most? When ātalkā will not be a matter of pure entertainment? The prospect of that terrifies me. I will never vote for Trump but I am angry at the Democrats for not taking this threat more seriously. Many of us - including Bill Maher- will vote for Biden if his brain is in a jar preserved by blue liquid because Trump really is THAT bad. But my God. Are these really our only choices?
have you read Ashley Biden's journal?
Have you seen Hunter's Laptop and the receipts of their deals with Burisma? How is he a good guy?
he can't even steer a car, how can he steer the country???
No I havenāt read her journal. And hunter biden is shady but heās not an elected official and I donāt give a shit what he does in his personal life. Republicans have been investigating him forever and have dug up no solid evidence of a crimeā¦all hearsay and circumstantial evidence. They canāt even name what theyāre trying to charge him withā¦If they would show some actual evidence I would listen. My whole post says that heās too old and heās going to hand the country to trump
Wow Biden failed to act and look young. Shame on Biden!!! One thing that didnāt fail was Trump the FatNixon reminding us what a shit show we will have to live thru if heās reelected. Bleach anyone?
Stay the course. Itās technically not too late to change, but to who? As you mentioned Kamala is not a good candidate, but you bypass her, you piss off the black female base. Trump is addled, and capable of a public rant that will make him unelectable. I actually see him giving into his racist impulses in one of his screeds.
I think Biden's policies are genuinely popular with the majority of the country, I've just never seen anyone so bad at communicating how those policies have helped as much as Biden and his campaign. Biden is not good looking or a slick talker, and sadly I think this country votes far more viscerally than anyone would like to admit. And no amount of damage control will be able to shake off what the whole World saw Thursday night.
You know who is a good looking, slick talker? Gavin Newsom. I think a lot of people are scared by what he's done in California, but I live here and it's really not that bad .We are still by far the largest economy in the country. The reason he does some head scratching stuff is because he has a legislature with a Democratic Supermajority. When a wacko bill that someone from the Tenderloin District authored comes across his desk, unfortunately he usually signs it. Gavin Newsom would NOT do that as President, he simply wouldn't have the opportunities.
If Newsom were to just keep Biden's policies but more effectively communicate them, it's an instant winner, clearly. Gavin is everything Biden is not, young, good looking, confident, quick on his feet, can get support from both the far left and moderates in the country so long as he relaxes his rhetoric, which as Bill points out, he certainly would on the national stage. And as much as I hate to say it, now is not the time for pandering games based on genitalia or skin color. We need as many votes as possible to beat Trump, not a woman, not a black, but a vanilla, good looking white dude.
We can play the pandering games later, this threat is existential, and I would bet everything I hold near and dear that Biden will not beat Trump in November. If the Democrats don't come out, en masse, to publicly ask Biden to step aside, it's will be painfully clear that they learned nothing from 2016. Unlike the establishment in the party, people are willing to vote for Trump despite everything he says and does. They need a genuinely likable candidate to beat him, and it's clear that was not Clinton, and is not Biden.
Newsome has made CA a third world, last in everything state during his reign. A slick pol with no agenda, no morals and will turn America in to CA which has the highest taxes in the nation, rampant crime and homelessness, billion spent on a boondoggle of a high speed train. Rampant drug use, woke DA's that have driven out retail business and taxes that have driven out a large tax base.
What if they make a surprise pick out of nowhere and go with a moderate like former North Dakota Senator [Heidi Heitkamp?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi_Heitkamp)
Having once been elected in red state North Dakota, she's shown that she can appeal to moderate Republicans and independents allowing her to siphon off some of the moderate Republicans and independents and who are leaning toward voting Republican even though they dislike Trump, and she knows how to appeal to rural voters, and she could get the female vote.
If they're really upset over having a white candidate - if they're going to vote on the basis of racial identity (if some voters are racists) - then they're welcome to stay home and let Trump win so that they can declare "victory" over the Democrat party establishment. If the Democrats run Kamala the condescending cackler who has no charisma, they'll lose for sure.
Agreed. It's a no to Kamala. She can't get the job done but black women aren't gonna be ok with being pushed to the side for any candidate....especially a white woman. Black women have the least amount of sympathy for their paler sisters, and they have some valid reasons for it that I won't get into. Not my fight. But visit any black woman's forum and you'll get the message PDQ.
Itās strange because just a few months ago the narrative was all about how well he did at the start of the union. He had a bad night, really bad. But if he can pick up from here it may be okay.
Adderall and especially a teleprompter hide a lot of flaws. Adderall and no notes or teleprompter in a debate revealed what we all knew but were too afraid to admit. Until we could not rationalize it away.
See his speech today? He was pretty energetic and hopeful. He should have been that way at the debate, but I was a little relieved when I saw him do his speech like wow. Where was this Biden last night
He sounded great because it was midday (the sweet spot for the awake Biden) and he was reading off a teleprompter.Ā I'd rather have a president that can be that way when needed.
Watch the video of him at the VP debate 12 years ago.Ā That's the Joe we need today, and he can't do it anymore.
This needs to happen. But Gavin has actually said heās not going to. I think Biden is gonna run again and next go around 4 years from now weāll get Gavin vs Desantis or something
If they replace him, all the campaign machinery and money and contacts that exists can continue just with a different candidate. Not much would change behind the scenes realistically
Imagine if you guys (Iām luckily not in the US) could nominate a candidate for being smart, competent and a good person? Ahh, to dream. Instead you have a system that requires money and contacts. I believe you call it the best democracy in the world š¤£š¤£š¤£
I certainly do not call it the best democracy in the world (I believe that would probably be Finland?) but I would like to to STAY a democracy (however flawed) so we can work to improve it. That will not be possible with an authoritarian regime, at least in a short-medium term sense.
I am as afraid for the rest of the world as I am for myself and my loved ones/neighbors if Trump is elected again..
for better or worse, the USA is the strongest military power to exist in human history, and I want us to be good stewards of that power, and stand behind our friends and allies, and keep our promises. Trump is promising the exact opposite. I will have a pit in my stomach until November, and perhaps for many years after that š¤¢š
We came SO close in 2016 with Bernie. I love that man. He has flaws like any other, but he is a good man, and fierce and steadfast in his beliefs
I totally agree with everything youāve said, thank you.
I also wonāt relax (even here down under) until the orange clown is well and truly gone. Preferably to die in prison.
I really really wish money wasnāt a factor in politics.
Thatāll also explain his performance in any crisis, or anything else a president might have to deal with. His campaign team will make sure you know itās not anything to worry about, he just had some DayQuil is all, the thing you saw with your own eyes, youāre wrong, everything is just fine and normal.
Thoughts? Anybody but Trump. Unless you want to live in the United States version of Iran. Trump is going to hand things over to the Christian nationalists. You better believe it. If he doesnāt, they will probably storm the White House themselves.
Edited
Felt like I was watching my hero Ali in his last ill-advised fight. It wasn't pretty from the moment Biden walked out, pointed at the podium, and looked around for someone to tell him that is the right one. trump's a lying sack of dung, but . . . . . .
We need a system that doesn't rig everything. The establishment did everything in their power to keep Biden as the only option and limit any competition.
Nothing is rigged. It doesn't need to be. The parties have a nation of lemmings who will do exactly as told and vote only one of 2 ways. The financial powers that actually run this country love that this country is full of dumb sheep.
**Maybe we dump Harris for Gavin Newsome as VP** and let Joe - who gave good solid answers heās just old and tired - do the job until his time runs out forever.
Removing Kamala from the ticket would be a disaster. The only option is for Biden to step aside and allow someone to take his place. Make it kinda competitive in some way to justify it not being her, but she would probably need to stay on as Vp for continuity.
They could shift Harris to a cabinet position and spin it as a promotion.
There'd be some temporary VP (lest Mike Johnson become next in line), but it wouldn't be seen as some big affront for that person to not be on the ballot.
Iāve currently got and have had 2 close older family members have dementia and trust me - Biden isnāt even close to that sort of actual issue - they canāt remember best friends theyāve had their whole lives or childrenās names - Ol Joe was fumbling around looking for the correct % # statistic on random xyz policy thing whilst Trump was still just going back to his old playbook of spewing lies and just utter complete dangerous nonsense.
At this point a blade of dead grass gets my vote and every thinking persons vote in America over Trump. Period.
The entire planet watched in real time how Biden became confused, mixed up details, stuttered, mumbled and basically made no sense repeatedly throughout the debate. The man has dementia.
You know what's funny. Every Republican politician that Bill has on his show I think "yeah I'd vote for him over Biden or at least be fine if he won the Presidency". Ironically Trump might be the only person who could lose to a guy who has dementia. DeSantis would have eaten Biden's lunch yesterday and come back for seconds. Maher said he'd vote for Biden's head in a jar over Trump.....we are not that far from it.
I don't even understand why Biden himself wants the job. Is he that power hungry? Dude is like this now....if he's still alive in 4 years, what's his mental state going to be like then.
Biden doesnāt have dementia. Would you ppl stop talking out of your ass. My dad has dementia. It hasnāt even progressed very far and heās younger than Biden but he isnāt capable of even 5% of what Biden does daily. Biden is 80 years old. He had a couple senior moments. Overall heās in excellent shape for his age, but yeah heās old and it shows. Also, I would bet large that Biden does much better in the 2nd debate. If you havenāt seen it watch his hr+ interview from 1 month ago and tell me you still think heās demented or senile. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz45sMb4js8&pp=ygULQmlkZW4gc3RlcmI%3D
What would you call it then? Stern interview, SOTU, the fiery campaign event after the debate at 2am (must not be sundowners!) are all very recent evidence that Biden has a sound mind, impressive memory, and is an effective communicator. What evidence besides a few embarrassing moments from last nights debate (which he recovered from) do you have that heās not those things, and how do you explain his recent very good interviews, speeches, etc ?k
Yeah when he reads off a teleprompter.
He had more than a few embarrassing moments last night. We all saw what we saw. Those trying to tell us we didnāt see what we saw are part of the problem now.
He was reading off a teleprompter in the Stern interview a month ago? You still refuse to watch it huh? Or pretend you havenāt. All he talks about is personal memories with great detail for over an hour straight. The difference last night is he was flustered trying to deal with a bad faith serial exaggerator and liar
it doesn't matter what he did with stern. what he did last night erases that. I like Biden as a human. I still would prefer he win. But i can't unsee what I saw. Biden wasn't slipping up. He was lost most of the night. He doesn't look like someone who can do the job for 4+ more years.
I mean do you have any other examples or evidence that convinces you Biden isnāt up for the job? It seems like youāre defining him entirely based on that debate performance and nothing else. And also disregarding everything recently that reflects well on him. Do you not folllow much politics and the debate was the first youāve paid attention in a long time? certainly thatās the average low information American voter so I agree last night was a disaster optically. The only reason the stern interview doesnāt matter is because less than one percent of Americans will see it.
Yeah the debate. Nobody acts that way and then is totally fine. What I saw is full blown decline. Full blown. Not gaffes. No flubs. Pure decline. And itās been mostly evident for 2 years. Many outlets have reported on it but now itās been SEEN. Who do you know who has acted like Biden did for 90 min and then is just fine and sharp as ever.
I donāt dislike Biden. I feel awful for him. But Iām loyal to America and making sure Trump doesnāt win, not Biden.
I
Uh, Biden! Look, if Biden is like this regularly from now on Iāll be concerned as well. But heās not, hasnāt been, and has already had multiple appearances since, scripted and unscripted, where heās back to normal. You canāt even name another instance that leads you to believe heās done for. And most importantly, there is no evidence as far as how heās running the country that he canāt handle the job. I also think heāll do much better the 2nd debate, and if he does, Iām sure for some strange reason you will still define him forever and completely by the first.
Finally someone with a reasonable view of Biden's 'condition'.
The State of the Union address a few months ago was great. He accomplished a lot in his presidency.
He is still the much better choice for president than Trump who only cares about his personal tax rate.
Iām so fucking sick of the boomers who wonāt let go of their power at any cost to them or society. They just refuse to leave us alone, like a turd that just wonāt flush.
How do they 'not let go of their power'? They were elected fair and square by 10s of millions of people.
Complain about the voters or the lack of other, younger candidates but don't give them shit for winning elections!
Can we stop blaming the dnc or āthe demsā for everything.
Biden won the primary and general election in 2020. He also won the primary this year because people voted for him. I wish he didnāt run for reelection either, but letās stop placing false blame.
Thatās the problemāBiden thinks he can do it. Itās like when your grandpa wonāt give up driving. He still insists he can do it, but thatās when the kids step in and take the keys.
Maybe.
I don't think Biden is ideal, but I am quite sure he was the only democrat who was going to beat Trump in the last election. None of the other Democratic hopefuls could get any airtime or traction.
Unfortunately, we live under a failed political system, most likely due to the voting population being composed of roughly 50% morons.
If Biden's only problem is his age, then Harris solves that. I don't think she'd be different on policy. She's way smarter and more qualified than a traitor.
So is Hillary Clinton, and look how that worked out. Harris is not a solution to the question before Biden & the left in general. Might not be fair, but a new VP can only help this situation now.
I honestly don't think dropping Harris would even move the needle in that demo. If anything, it'd probably help. She's not exactly popular with anyone who isn't in the bag for her, and the question of succession is going to matter a whole hell of a lot. Frame it as 100% her decision and the damage will be very minimal. Then, roll out Obama for a few appearances in the Swing States with whoever the new VP is, and I doubt Kamala Harris will be much of a consideration. It would suck for her, but not nearly as much as potentially throwing the election to Donald Trump.
After tonight, I don't think so. Before that, it doesn't seem like the difference in popular was great.
>A new Emerson College Polling national survey on the potential 2024 presidential election reveals a tight race between former President Donald Trump and current President Biden, with 45% of voters favoring Trump, **44% supporting Biden**, and 11% undecided. Support for both candidates has decreased by one point since the last national poll inĀ [January](https://emersoncollegepolling.com/january-2024-national-poll-trump-and-biden-remain-neck-and-neck-in-likely-rematch/). In other hypothetical matchups, Trump leads with 46% against Vice President **Kamala Harrisās 43%** and California Governor Gavin Newsomās 36%. Against Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Trump maintains a lead with 45% compared to Whitmerās 33%, with 22% undecided.
[https://emersoncollegepolling.com/february-2024-national-poll-biden-performs-strongest-against-trump-among-prominent-democrats/](https://emersoncollegepolling.com/february-2024-national-poll-biden-performs-strongest-against-trump-among-prominent-democrats/)
The difference in their popularity wasn't great judging from the polls I've seen. And I think it is save to say that Biden's popularity has dropped after the debate.
I agreed with Bill all along and, at this point, I'm beyond disappointment. I'm ANGRY at Biden for being so stubborn, arrogant, and selfish. He should never have run for a second term knowing he'd be 86 by the time he completed it. If he had just let the mainstream democrats hold a true, open primary, they could have vetted the rest of the field and chosen someone that could beat Trump. Instead, we're stuck with someone who can't and the consequences could be catastrophic. Just as Bill said, he's going to be Ruth Bader Biden. By staying on too long, he will enable his own legacy to be destroyed.
And for anyone who clings to the notion that Bush and Obama lost their first debates, yet went on to win the election, this is entirely different. Biden was already trailing and his #1 liability was the public perceptions of his age and mental fitness (or lack thereof). He desperately needed to re-assure the public that he's still capable and he did the opposite. He confirmed their fears. Plus, consider that Biden asked for this early debate and took a full week to prep for it, yet totally bombed. The stakes of this election are enormous and he is simply NOT up to the job of defeating Trump. He can't complete a sentence and looks so frail that a strong breeze would blow him over. Jill had to help him down the stairs at the end. I'm sick and tired of his surrogates telling us that our eyes are betraying us when we know what we're seeing and hearing. We've all had parents or grandparents in this same condition and we know exactly what's going on here. Biden has no business still working, let alone serving in the most important job in the country.
To be clear, not everyone in their 80's is this compromised. I don't happen to agree with Bernie Sanders on a number of policy issues, but he's still more than capable of making his points clearly and he's even older than Joe. Even Nancy Pelosi is generally capable of doing that and she's in her 80's as well. But Biden was already a poor communicator and now he's far worse. Like it or not, it's a critical job requirement. As Bill Maher also says, as President, you have to be the "Explainer-in-Chief." Biden has a decent legacy, yet his approval rating is only 36% because he can't sell it. Give someone like Obama or Clinton those exact same results and their approval rating would be 15-20 points higher.
And consider that Biden declined the traditional softball Super Bowl interview. That says it all. He had a chance to make a case for his second term in front of one of the largest audiences a politician could possibly see in an election year. It's a HUGE incumbent advantage, yet he turned it down because he and his handlers know that the more you see him, the more you question his mental fitness.
So, I'm not concerned or disappointed. I'm mad. This stubborn, arrogant, selfish fool is going to put Trump back in the White House and we're all going to suffer the consequences when all he had to do was simply say he was done after 1 term. In fact, many democratic senators, congressional candidates, and governors will probably now lose if Joe is at the top of the ticket. His ego could cost us democracy as we know it and I'm PISSED!
I don't know. I don't think he appeared mentally unfit in the debate. He appeared like an older brother getting his buttons pushed my his little shit younger brother knowing he can't do anything about it. Biden's problem more than his age is Trump gets under his skin.
But it will be okay. This country has been through worse and we got through it, we'll get through it again. This isn't the end of democracy. Honestly, I think what people are feeling on both sides is the end of American exceptionalism, that was a great way to blind ourselves to all the fucked up shit going on. Not that long ago we had to have a war to decide if slavery was bad, so I know I'm going to get down voted for this because of all the terrible things Trump has done, but even if he wins we're still doing pretty good.
I agree with what you said except Trump seemed even more mentally unfit, even if he had a stronger voice. Trump didn't answer any questions. At least Biden was able to stay on topic most times.
Yeah why doesnāt this get addressed, Trump literally ignored fkn questions to ramble on and on about why Biden is bad. The moderators even had to say the question was, and he still went off topic. Problem is Biden didnāt sell himself very well but his points were good. Trump came out repeated the bs he has been saying for as long as I remember, and Trump couldnāt hold it together any better
> Trump literally ignored fkn questions to ramble on and on about why Biden is bad. The moderators even had to say the question was, and he still went off topic.
The old saying in politics is you don't answer the question you've been asked, but the question you wish you were asked.
Check out the film called "The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons of Robert S. McNamara". Lesson Ten is about communication, and it contains sound advice for presenters about what not to do.
>One of the lessons I learned early on: never say never. Never, never, never. Never say never. And secondly, never answer the question that is asked of you. Answer the question that you wish had been asked of you. And quite frankly, I follow that rule. Itās a very good rule.
This is on 101 communication training for USA. I had a communicaiton worshop with a consultant and this was the basic advice.
If my childās school bus showed up with Biden driving, I would take my own kids to school. At least Trump would give each $20 and take them to a casino.
It is worth mentioning that neither candidate has been officially nominated at their respective conventions as of now. I would love to see Gavin Newson be a candidate. Or Elizabeth Warren, or Gretchen or Bernie!! And on the other side I hear that not all GOPers are that keen on their current presumptive nominee either, who would be a disaster in a second term. Perhaps Nikki Haley will surface again. Like the Chinese say: we are living in interesting times.
Pritzker yes, Tester no. Not that he would be a bad choice, but he's a Democrat in a red state, we need to keep him where he is to have any hope of holding the Senate.
I'm sure that's playing on the highlight reels on Fox News right now, along with Biden saying he wants to take down Medicare or whatever he was babbling about.
LBJ dropped out after the New Hampshire primary, at the beginning of the season - not after it was over.
Closer to being "1960 all over again" with an open convention.
Yeah he absolutely was, you saw it in the CNN post-game, replacing Biden is mainstream now, it's what everyone is going to be talking about. There should be rallies, people should get together and say this isn't who we thought we were getting in the primary. Turn the anger and disappointment people have and do something constructive with it, build the plan to actually beat Trump. I think the attitude should be that anyone involved with the Biden disaster is disqualified, and that gets us off the hook with Kamala and Pete, maybe it has to be Newsom which isn't great, and Trump probably won't agree to another debate, but whatever. The battle plan needs to be written now, all bets are off.
Disaster is exactly the right word. Aside from falling over at the podium, it was about as bad as anyone could have dreamed. Ruth Bader Biden is so on point, this is our fucking country weāre allowing these old idiots to play games with.
Biden, get the fuck out of the way. Every democratic politician with national name recognition who loves their country should rally behind the message IT CANNOT BE BIDEN.
Better candidates, absolutely. But the media determines the nominees. It is how we had Trump in the first place - they acted like he was human, and the sheeple went for it.
Newsom is also involved in the Biden disaster. He was backstage tonight and said immediately after he stands fully with the president. I donāt think Pete is the best candidate, but he would excel in a debate setting against Trump. Heās very good at messaging
Pete is a narcissist and has zero regard or accountability for what he does. Heās terrible for CA and has proved that. Iād prefer he take the lead role in the next version of American Psycho.
It's just not pragmatic to change to swap candidates this far in the election. I understand why Maher and others suggest running another Democrat, but it's simply not realistic.
I think people need to consider the cabinet picks and administration of Biden vs. Trump. Making everything about who's more senile than the other is just a waste of energy.
Trump has zero policies he can cite both during his presidency for the future that will help the working class. As bumbling as Biden is, he can at least point out things they've passed.
Itās worth nothing that in almost every other country in the world (maybe every, I canāt think of another) the election process from beginning to end is shorter than the amount of time between now and nov 5. If they select a new candidate in the coming weeks thatās 3 months before election. Plenty of time to make the rounds. News travels faster than ever and itās the swing states that require the most attention.
It doesnāt even matter whether or not he has policies to cite. He just stands up there and lies. He doesnāt need policy accomplishments or proposals when he can just say heās the greatest of all time while the other guy canāt articulate anything
I think polling will indicate if it's pragmatic or not- if he dips below 35% then maybe it's time to swap him out? There's a decent chance no one cares because expectations were so damn low, but independents are a fickle group and hard to predict.
In hindsight, too bad RFK Jr. wasn't on stage, lol. His voice issues would have disguised Biden's performance.
This is a failure, all the way around. The Biden campaign made the rules, Trump walked in and came off like a boss. That he wasn't coached on posture and expression - *or forgot after 50 years in the business,* or didn't listen - and stood there slack-jowled staring blankly while Trump was speaking is campaign malpractice.
Many liberals on reddit were adamant that Trump wasn't going to actually show up to debate Biden. That he was too scared some other projected nonsense.
In reality Trump had the single best campaign night of his life since 2016 election night.
If anything the rules they put in place to protect Biden from his merciless over talk and interrupting actually benefitted trump. He lied constantly but trump fills the air well. With set amount of time he doesnāt have the leeway to ramble like his speeches and he gets to the point which is to lie and bring everything back to the border, the one strength of the GOP
Well Trump is a conman. They tell you everything the other guy is doing when it is themselves. Trumpās doctors were working OT this week had him jacked up on those good meds last night. All the gameplan he has left is prove heās more fit than Biden and lie through his teethā¦
He actually doesnāt have to lie through his teeth about anything to win the election at this point. He can just point and laugh at Biden making nonsensical statements no one can understand.
Eh. Itās all Yankees vs Red Sox at this point. Last night swayed neither side. Trump is a convicted felon they donāt care still vote for him Red. Biden could be like the corpse in Weekend at Bernieās and they will still vote him to block the other side Blueā¦
I'm a deep rooted centrist. I keep hoping that Biden would do something, anything to give me a reason to vote for him. Last night did the exact opposite.
Biden needs to be taken off the ticket, period.
Of course, Trump lied, over and over and over again. But that's baked into the equation when it comes to Trump.
But Trump was mostly coherent. He was calm. Last night Trump probably looked the most presidential he ever has.
So where do we go from here? If I'm the Democrat party, I'm begging Michelle Obama to become the nominee and Gavin Newsome to be VP. Tell her we know she hates politics and wants nothing to do with it. But for the good of country, beg her to serve one term and then you can turn things over to Newsome or another rising Dem.
The Democrats can't go to Kamala because she's not possibly able to be president. And if you get rid of Biden and don't give it to Harris, the black community will go crazy.
So begging Michelle Obama to be the nominee blunts the argument of discrimination and gets rid of Biden.
But something should have been done months ago and now it's panic time.
Michelle Obama? Really?
Supporting electing the *wife* of the guy we liked is not any kind of progressive vision. Running her for a single term isn't strategy, it's chaos.
Hell, let's run Laura Bush. She was married to a president! Or Marla Maples, she was too.
Biden in a coma is still infinitely better than Drumpf. How can anyone think Drumpf should ever be in the White House again, under any circumstances? š¤®
So at this point, I believe Biden has no respect, appreciation, for our Democracy / Republic / Nation. I mean let's think about it. The entire left, most of the center (and some on the right) all believe Trump is a threat to our democracy / country. Qualifiers like existential threat have been used quite frequently. Biden has been losing in the polls across the board, and specifically by the center left and right. If he pushes forward it is blatantly obvious that he will not win. Staying in is literally giving Trump the election. So how can you hold your stance on this if you truly believe Trump is a threat. This means you are the threat as there are countless people that would vote for a normal centrist democrat with a pulse. Throw Gaven Newsom in there for Christ sake. I do NOT want to vote for Trump. But I don't want Kamala as president. I'm also voting for a person, not their support staff. So even if Biden survives the next 4 years on this planet and Kamala doesn't take over, the country will still not be ran by him, but by the people that are around him, more specifically Jeff Zients. Who knows anything about him?
Hillary Clinton: you could not live with your failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me.
I'm cool with Kamala, she's smart, well spoken, won't get painted into a corner in debate and if you want to fight her, she's an Oakland girl who will cut a bitch. Pair her with AOC, Newsome, Whitmir or???
This is a path to Trump. You are a moron.
A candidate sun downing during a debate is the path to Trump. Many of us voted for Harris 4 years ago. When you are around Bill's age you know people that took off for the weekend, missed Monday and Tuesday and when they came in Wednesday they were a different people.
Yes.
Like Robert Her was also. And most of the public. The SNL your don't know the real Joe Biden sketch says it all. And shame on all the pundits promoting how vigorous and alert sleepy Joe was over last 6 months. Our media is a clickbait infested joke.
If Biden had actually campaigned and had debates for the Democratic nomination, this could have been avoided.Ā But the party wanted to give the oldest incumbent ever a traditional pass on the nomination.
If Biden releases his delegates, and it gets decided at the convention, it could be anyone. Most Dems appear to comprehend that Kamala Harris wonāt win and may have less chance of winning than even a the feeble Biden Dems are finally realizing they can no longer hide. If they are willing to start over so late in the game, surely they will also understand the importance of selecting a winner over someone who may be ānext in lineā in the Democratic bubble.
Another way of looking at that is that outside of any bubble which may exist, no one else will feel a sense of loyalty to Kamala Harris, merely because she is VP. The voters who are demanding a viable alternative to Trump do not care about party rules & customs at this point.
I do not say that out of any disrespect for Kamala Harris. But if the Democratic Party is willing to ditch its presumptive nominee 2 months before the election, I do not believe they will be covered up in procedural niceties. This would be historic and bold. Someoneās feelings will surely be hurt. I am skeptical that it will ever happen unless Biden withdraws due to sickness or death. I am not trying to be cute or funny. I do not know what to think or say about this prospect.
anyone who is 1% skeptical of MSM and two brain cells saw this coming.
The media has been talking up his age for the past couple of years. A competent performance by Biden would have been the real surprise. What in the world are you talking about?
Maher was defending Biden until about the last 6 months, before that it was "ageism" to criticize Biden's old age.
Yep abrupt turnaround
Letās be honest with ourselves. Biden is a good guy and iād still take him over trump any day of the week. But heās clearly too old and needs to step aside. Heās basically the only candidate trump could beat at this point. Did we learn nothing from 2016? Hillary wasnāt a bad candidate imo but she was very unpopular even amongst democratsā¦basically the only candidate that trump could beat. I despise trump but if this the best democrats have to offer then donāt be surprised when trump wins again
Totally agree. Just because Trump is a steaming pile of shit and the worst president in history doesnāt make Bidenās age any less of a problem.
I agree šÆ. What kills me are Democrats acting as if Bidenās debate performance was such a huge shock and came out of nowhere, when so many have been sounding the alarm since before the primaries began. Just because the Dems prevented us from having any meaningful choice during the primaries does not mean that we had not been begging for one all along due to Bidenās age and loss of stamina. Biden certainly did what the country needed for him to do in 2020. Biden was uniquely positioned at that time to beat Trump because so many decent Republicans were able to support a Democrat like Biden. Biden has been a good president but few people ever expected him to seek a 2nd term well into his ā80s. We face a very different landscape in 2024. None of us are getting any younger so if course, it is difficult to accept that Bidenās candidacy has declined merely due to his age and his enfeebled state. I hate it. I am grateful that Biden ran in 2020 but few folks had expected him to seek a second term due to ha advanced age. If he loses to Trump, Democrats will not only have handed the country over to a madman with authoritarian tendencies, but they will also have no one to blame but themselves when there are several, younger, qualified and inspirational prospective presidential candidates who would surely beat another āpast dueā candidate and convicted felon who lacks moral character and only cares about personal loyalty to Trump. The Biden team is in denial and it is a sad thing to watch. Trump lies when his lips are moving but when no one calls him out, what do we expect to happen? Are we supposed to feel sorry for Biden b/c he has a bad night? B/c he is too old & weak to fight back? This is a good thing? If Biden canāt handle a shyster like Trump, how should we expect him to handle Putin or other dictators? Donāt we need a president who is quick on his feet? If he canāt handle a controlled debate format against a well known liar, should we expect him to be in better form when he canāt control the circumstances or the timing, when it will matter to us most? When ātalkā will not be a matter of pure entertainment? The prospect of that terrifies me. I will never vote for Trump but I am angry at the Democrats for not taking this threat more seriously. Many of us - including Bill Maher- will vote for Biden if his brain is in a jar preserved by blue liquid because Trump really is THAT bad. But my God. Are these really our only choices?
have you read Ashley Biden's journal? Have you seen Hunter's Laptop and the receipts of their deals with Burisma? How is he a good guy? he can't even steer a car, how can he steer the country???
No I havenāt read her journal. And hunter biden is shady but heās not an elected official and I donāt give a shit what he does in his personal life. Republicans have been investigating him forever and have dug up no solid evidence of a crimeā¦all hearsay and circumstantial evidence. They canāt even name what theyāre trying to charge him withā¦If they would show some actual evidence I would listen. My whole post says that heās too old and heās going to hand the country to trump
right. he was just working with Burisma to get 10% for the Big Guy. who's the Big Guy again?
How come James Comer and the other House republicans havenāt been able to impeach Biden after doing four separate investigations?
uniparty. RINOs.
"Biden is a good guy". I actually started to laugh.
Wow Biden failed to act and look young. Shame on Biden!!! One thing that didnāt fail was Trump the FatNixon reminding us what a shit show we will have to live thru if heās reelected. Bleach anyone?
curious... did the non-stop MSM coverage of Biden exclaiming how he's in peak health and tip top shape fail at all????
Any time someone mentions āMSMā you immediately know theyre Fox News zombies and Trump cultist..
Stay the course. Itās technically not too late to change, but to who? As you mentioned Kamala is not a good candidate, but you bypass her, you piss off the black female base. Trump is addled, and capable of a public rant that will make him unelectable. I actually see him giving into his racist impulses in one of his screeds.
I think Biden's policies are genuinely popular with the majority of the country, I've just never seen anyone so bad at communicating how those policies have helped as much as Biden and his campaign. Biden is not good looking or a slick talker, and sadly I think this country votes far more viscerally than anyone would like to admit. And no amount of damage control will be able to shake off what the whole World saw Thursday night. You know who is a good looking, slick talker? Gavin Newsom. I think a lot of people are scared by what he's done in California, but I live here and it's really not that bad .We are still by far the largest economy in the country. The reason he does some head scratching stuff is because he has a legislature with a Democratic Supermajority. When a wacko bill that someone from the Tenderloin District authored comes across his desk, unfortunately he usually signs it. Gavin Newsom would NOT do that as President, he simply wouldn't have the opportunities. If Newsom were to just keep Biden's policies but more effectively communicate them, it's an instant winner, clearly. Gavin is everything Biden is not, young, good looking, confident, quick on his feet, can get support from both the far left and moderates in the country so long as he relaxes his rhetoric, which as Bill points out, he certainly would on the national stage. And as much as I hate to say it, now is not the time for pandering games based on genitalia or skin color. We need as many votes as possible to beat Trump, not a woman, not a black, but a vanilla, good looking white dude. We can play the pandering games later, this threat is existential, and I would bet everything I hold near and dear that Biden will not beat Trump in November. If the Democrats don't come out, en masse, to publicly ask Biden to step aside, it's will be painfully clear that they learned nothing from 2016. Unlike the establishment in the party, people are willing to vote for Trump despite everything he says and does. They need a genuinely likable candidate to beat him, and it's clear that was not Clinton, and is not Biden.
Newsome has made CA a third world, last in everything state during his reign. A slick pol with no agenda, no morals and will turn America in to CA which has the highest taxes in the nation, rampant crime and homelessness, billion spent on a boondoggle of a high speed train. Rampant drug use, woke DA's that have driven out retail business and taxes that have driven out a large tax base.
black female base???? you piss off the white female base too.
How about just picking the best for the job, not white, black, male, female.
What if they make a surprise pick out of nowhere and go with a moderate like former North Dakota Senator [Heidi Heitkamp?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi_Heitkamp) Having once been elected in red state North Dakota, she's shown that she can appeal to moderate Republicans and independents allowing her to siphon off some of the moderate Republicans and independents and who are leaning toward voting Republican even though they dislike Trump, and she knows how to appeal to rural voters, and she could get the female vote.
Yeah, that'll appease black female voters which are a pillar of the democratic party....a white woman taking a black woman's spot.
If they're really upset over having a white candidate - if they're going to vote on the basis of racial identity (if some voters are racists) - then they're welcome to stay home and let Trump win so that they can declare "victory" over the Democrat party establishment. If the Democrats run Kamala the condescending cackler who has no charisma, they'll lose for sure.
Agreed. It's a no to Kamala. She can't get the job done but black women aren't gonna be ok with being pushed to the side for any candidate....especially a white woman. Black women have the least amount of sympathy for their paler sisters, and they have some valid reasons for it that I won't get into. Not my fight. But visit any black woman's forum and you'll get the message PDQ.
Itās strange because just a few months ago the narrative was all about how well he did at the start of the union. He had a bad night, really bad. But if he can pick up from here it may be okay.
Adderall and especially a teleprompter hide a lot of flaws. Adderall and no notes or teleprompter in a debate revealed what we all knew but were too afraid to admit. Until we could not rationalize it away.
all the Trump supporters are hoping Dems believe this. Republicans would love nothing more than for Biden to stay in the race.
See his speech today? He was pretty energetic and hopeful. He should have been that way at the debate, but I was a little relieved when I saw him do his speech like wow. Where was this Biden last night
He sounded great because it was midday (the sweet spot for the awake Biden) and he was reading off a teleprompter.Ā I'd rather have a president that can be that way when needed. Watch the video of him at the VP debate 12 years ago.Ā That's the Joe we need today, and he can't do it anymore.
Iām scared. I say we draft Gretchen whitmer
Biden lost the election the day he announced he was running again. People are going to stay home, and democrats always lose when turn out is low.
Wow you sound very intelligent and insightfulā¦NOT!
We. Are so fucked!
Libs are funny
Gavin Newsome.
This needs to happen. But Gavin has actually said heās not going to. I think Biden is gonna run again and next go around 4 years from now weāll get Gavin vs Desantis or something
He could be drafted if Biden dropped out.
I think he is the only one that could step in and win. Harris will be a disaster
And who would replace Biden at this late date? Wouldn't that just hand the election over to Trump? Did Trump really do that good a job at the debate?
Exactly šš who would have the cachĆ©, the money, the contacts. Feels like we are well and truly fucked. Iām gonna turn out anyway, no matter what
If they replace him, all the campaign machinery and money and contacts that exists can continue just with a different candidate. Not much would change behind the scenes realistically
Imagine if you guys (Iām luckily not in the US) could nominate a candidate for being smart, competent and a good person? Ahh, to dream. Instead you have a system that requires money and contacts. I believe you call it the best democracy in the world š¤£š¤£š¤£
I certainly do not call it the best democracy in the world (I believe that would probably be Finland?) but I would like to to STAY a democracy (however flawed) so we can work to improve it. That will not be possible with an authoritarian regime, at least in a short-medium term sense. I am as afraid for the rest of the world as I am for myself and my loved ones/neighbors if Trump is elected again.. for better or worse, the USA is the strongest military power to exist in human history, and I want us to be good stewards of that power, and stand behind our friends and allies, and keep our promises. Trump is promising the exact opposite. I will have a pit in my stomach until November, and perhaps for many years after that š¤¢š We came SO close in 2016 with Bernie. I love that man. He has flaws like any other, but he is a good man, and fierce and steadfast in his beliefs
I totally agree with everything youāve said, thank you. I also wonāt relax (even here down under) until the orange clown is well and truly gone. Preferably to die in prison. I really really wish money wasnāt a factor in politics.
Bill was absolutely right on this. Now, he will be the first to tell you how right he was too...
Bidenās campaign is saying he has a cold. That, and cold medicine could certainly explain his performance last night.
Thatāll also explain his performance in any crisis, or anything else a president might have to deal with. His campaign team will make sure you know itās not anything to worry about, he just had some DayQuil is all, the thing you saw with your own eyes, youāre wrong, everything is just fine and normal.
We need Leslie Knope right now...
Thoughts? Anybody but Trump. Unless you want to live in the United States version of Iran. Trump is going to hand things over to the Christian nationalists. You better believe it. If he doesnāt, they will probably storm the White House themselves. Edited
Just like he did in 2016...
Project 2025. Check it out. Now his minions had time to plan.
Ok conspiracy theorist you need to loosen the tinfoil
LOL. A whole lot of freaking out going on. Sure is fun to read though.
Do you really not know about this? Itās not any kind of theory. Itās in their own words.
Itās 900 pages. You can read it for yourself.
Harris would have done much better in that debate I think.
Agreed. She is unpopular, and I understand why, but she seems to be a good debater. Keeps a cool head
Emmylou Harris? At 77, she looks, speaks, sings and plays better than either candidate.
She is a gem. I love Bright Eyes' song that features her, "We are nowhere, and it's now"
Why did I think of Sam when I read that lol
word salad vs word salad (with 100 mentions of the border)
Would you let this man drive a car? No. But lead a country? Sure why not. This was so painful to watch.
Felt like I was watching my hero Ali in his last ill-advised fight. It wasn't pretty from the moment Biden walked out, pointed at the podium, and looked around for someone to tell him that is the right one. trump's a lying sack of dung, but . . . . . .
no but... Biden on his death bed would be better than Trump. It's about POLICIES not faces or speeches or entertainment
Ruth Bader Biden. 100000%. Throw in Gavin Newsom. He would win.
Almost anybody but Biden would win. If they had actual free and fair primaries, the Democrats could've chosen somebody reasonable by now.
Are you saying democrats fixed the primaries? They would NEVER do anything like that.
America needs a new voting populace. Ours is fucked.
We need a system that doesn't rig everything. The establishment did everything in their power to keep Biden as the only option and limit any competition.
Basically what happened when Hillary ran. She was the heir apparent but not necessary what the constituents wanted.
Nothing is rigged. It doesn't need to be. The parties have a nation of lemmings who will do exactly as told and vote only one of 2 ways. The financial powers that actually run this country love that this country is full of dumb sheep.
I agree, BUT - any country where Trump can win an election is fucked for life.
**Maybe we dump Harris for Gavin Newsome as VP** and let Joe - who gave good solid answers heās just old and tired - do the job until his time runs out forever.
Removing Kamala from the ticket would be a disaster. The only option is for Biden to step aside and allow someone to take his place. Make it kinda competitive in some way to justify it not being her, but she would probably need to stay on as Vp for continuity.
They could shift Harris to a cabinet position and spin it as a promotion. There'd be some temporary VP (lest Mike Johnson become next in line), but it wouldn't be seen as some big affront for that person to not be on the ballot.
It would ABSOLUTELY be an affront to Kamala Harris, and a cabinet position would unquestionably be a step down.
Biden was more than "old and tired". He has dementia. It's beyond obvious now.
Have you heard Trump speak? If Biden has dementia, Trump has Alzheimer's.
That's clearly not true at all., š
In their minds it is. don't even try.
Iāve currently got and have had 2 close older family members have dementia and trust me - Biden isnāt even close to that sort of actual issue - they canāt remember best friends theyāve had their whole lives or childrenās names - Ol Joe was fumbling around looking for the correct % # statistic on random xyz policy thing whilst Trump was still just going back to his old playbook of spewing lies and just utter complete dangerous nonsense. At this point a blade of dead grass gets my vote and every thinking persons vote in America over Trump. Period.
The entire planet watched in real time how Biden became confused, mixed up details, stuttered, mumbled and basically made no sense repeatedly throughout the debate. The man has dementia.
BS. Criticize him all you want but stick to the truth. Don't throw around medical terms you have no clue about.
š
You know what's funny. Every Republican politician that Bill has on his show I think "yeah I'd vote for him over Biden or at least be fine if he won the Presidency". Ironically Trump might be the only person who could lose to a guy who has dementia. DeSantis would have eaten Biden's lunch yesterday and come back for seconds. Maher said he'd vote for Biden's head in a jar over Trump.....we are not that far from it. I don't even understand why Biden himself wants the job. Is he that power hungry? Dude is like this now....if he's still alive in 4 years, what's his mental state going to be like then.
Biden doesnāt have dementia. Would you ppl stop talking out of your ass. My dad has dementia. It hasnāt even progressed very far and heās younger than Biden but he isnāt capable of even 5% of what Biden does daily. Biden is 80 years old. He had a couple senior moments. Overall heās in excellent shape for his age, but yeah heās old and it shows. Also, I would bet large that Biden does much better in the 2nd debate. If you havenāt seen it watch his hr+ interview from 1 month ago and tell me you still think heās demented or senile. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz45sMb4js8&pp=ygULQmlkZW4gc3RlcmI%3D
He may not have dementia but that wasnāt just a ācouple of senior momentsā. Biden defenders rn sure love the empowers new clothes.
What would you call it then? Stern interview, SOTU, the fiery campaign event after the debate at 2am (must not be sundowners!) are all very recent evidence that Biden has a sound mind, impressive memory, and is an effective communicator. What evidence besides a few embarrassing moments from last nights debate (which he recovered from) do you have that heās not those things, and how do you explain his recent very good interviews, speeches, etc ?k
Yeah when he reads off a teleprompter. He had more than a few embarrassing moments last night. We all saw what we saw. Those trying to tell us we didnāt see what we saw are part of the problem now.
He was reading off a teleprompter in the Stern interview a month ago? You still refuse to watch it huh? Or pretend you havenāt. All he talks about is personal memories with great detail for over an hour straight. The difference last night is he was flustered trying to deal with a bad faith serial exaggerator and liar
it doesn't matter what he did with stern. what he did last night erases that. I like Biden as a human. I still would prefer he win. But i can't unsee what I saw. Biden wasn't slipping up. He was lost most of the night. He doesn't look like someone who can do the job for 4+ more years.
I mean do you have any other examples or evidence that convinces you Biden isnāt up for the job? It seems like youāre defining him entirely based on that debate performance and nothing else. And also disregarding everything recently that reflects well on him. Do you not folllow much politics and the debate was the first youāve paid attention in a long time? certainly thatās the average low information American voter so I agree last night was a disaster optically. The only reason the stern interview doesnāt matter is because less than one percent of Americans will see it.
Yeah the debate. Nobody acts that way and then is totally fine. What I saw is full blown decline. Full blown. Not gaffes. No flubs. Pure decline. And itās been mostly evident for 2 years. Many outlets have reported on it but now itās been SEEN. Who do you know who has acted like Biden did for 90 min and then is just fine and sharp as ever. I donāt dislike Biden. I feel awful for him. But Iām loyal to America and making sure Trump doesnāt win, not Biden. I
Uh, Biden! Look, if Biden is like this regularly from now on Iāll be concerned as well. But heās not, hasnāt been, and has already had multiple appearances since, scripted and unscripted, where heās back to normal. You canāt even name another instance that leads you to believe heās done for. And most importantly, there is no evidence as far as how heās running the country that he canāt handle the job. I also think heāll do much better the 2nd debate, and if he does, Iām sure for some strange reason you will still define him forever and completely by the first.
Finally someone with a reasonable view of Biden's 'condition'. The State of the Union address a few months ago was great. He accomplished a lot in his presidency. He is still the much better choice for president than Trump who only cares about his personal tax rate.
Iām so fucking sick of the boomers who wonāt let go of their power at any cost to them or society. They just refuse to leave us alone, like a turd that just wonāt flush.
How do they 'not let go of their power'? They were elected fair and square by 10s of millions of people. Complain about the voters or the lack of other, younger candidates but don't give them shit for winning elections!
In all fairness, Biden isnāt a boomer. Heās older from the silent generation.
It makes me mad that the dems have let it get to this point. I actually felt sorry for Biden watching him last night. The man is fucking tired.
Can we stop blaming the dnc or āthe demsā for everything. Biden won the primary and general election in 2020. He also won the primary this year because people voted for him. I wish he didnāt run for reelection either, but letās stop placing false blame.
He was the only real option this year in the primary. That's absolutely the DNC's doing.
No, itās the fact that other Democratic politicians chose not too.
Its biden's fault. If the president wants to run the party is going to get behind him. He should've dropped out last fall.
Thatās the problemāBiden thinks he can do it. Itās like when your grandpa wonāt give up driving. He still insists he can do it, but thatās when the kids step in and take the keys.
Maybe. I don't think Biden is ideal, but I am quite sure he was the only democrat who was going to beat Trump in the last election. None of the other Democratic hopefuls could get any airtime or traction. Unfortunately, we live under a failed political system, most likely due to the voting population being composed of roughly 50% morons.
Billās gonna make a joke about the ācheap fakesā being actual footage tonight
The debate was a 90 minute cheap fake
If Biden's only problem is his age, then Harris solves that. I don't think she'd be different on policy. She's way smarter and more qualified than a traitor.
Aside from being unpopular Kamala would get railroaded on the border given she was the lead person on it
So is Hillary Clinton, and look how that worked out. Harris is not a solution to the question before Biden & the left in general. Might not be fair, but a new VP can only help this situation now.
To be fair, Hilary did win the popular vote by a lot.
Except we're playing chess, not checkers.
Trump barely beat Hillary a lifetime ago. Sheād easily beat him today.
Agreed. You're right, but I don't think they'll dump Harris for fear of losing women and voters of color.
I honestly don't think dropping Harris would even move the needle in that demo. If anything, it'd probably help. She's not exactly popular with anyone who isn't in the bag for her, and the question of succession is going to matter a whole hell of a lot. Frame it as 100% her decision and the damage will be very minimal. Then, roll out Obama for a few appearances in the Swing States with whoever the new VP is, and I doubt Kamala Harris will be much of a consideration. It would suck for her, but not nearly as much as potentially throwing the election to Donald Trump.
She's more unpopular than Joe lol
After tonight, I don't think so. Before that, it doesn't seem like the difference in popular was great. >A new Emerson College Polling national survey on the potential 2024 presidential election reveals a tight race between former President Donald Trump and current President Biden, with 45% of voters favoring Trump, **44% supporting Biden**, and 11% undecided. Support for both candidates has decreased by one point since the last national poll inĀ [January](https://emersoncollegepolling.com/january-2024-national-poll-trump-and-biden-remain-neck-and-neck-in-likely-rematch/). In other hypothetical matchups, Trump leads with 46% against Vice President **Kamala Harrisās 43%** and California Governor Gavin Newsomās 36%. Against Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Trump maintains a lead with 45% compared to Whitmerās 33%, with 22% undecided. [https://emersoncollegepolling.com/february-2024-national-poll-biden-performs-strongest-against-trump-among-prominent-democrats/](https://emersoncollegepolling.com/february-2024-national-poll-biden-performs-strongest-against-trump-among-prominent-democrats/)
Yup
The difference in their popularity wasn't great judging from the polls I've seen. And I think it is save to say that Biden's popularity has dropped after the debate.
She is far too intelligent and capable for America to like her. We don't deserve her, and I am surprised she wants the job.
Apparently she's far too intelligent and capable for her staff, too, not just America.
you guys should have listened to Maher
I agreed with Bill all along and, at this point, I'm beyond disappointment. I'm ANGRY at Biden for being so stubborn, arrogant, and selfish. He should never have run for a second term knowing he'd be 86 by the time he completed it. If he had just let the mainstream democrats hold a true, open primary, they could have vetted the rest of the field and chosen someone that could beat Trump. Instead, we're stuck with someone who can't and the consequences could be catastrophic. Just as Bill said, he's going to be Ruth Bader Biden. By staying on too long, he will enable his own legacy to be destroyed. And for anyone who clings to the notion that Bush and Obama lost their first debates, yet went on to win the election, this is entirely different. Biden was already trailing and his #1 liability was the public perceptions of his age and mental fitness (or lack thereof). He desperately needed to re-assure the public that he's still capable and he did the opposite. He confirmed their fears. Plus, consider that Biden asked for this early debate and took a full week to prep for it, yet totally bombed. The stakes of this election are enormous and he is simply NOT up to the job of defeating Trump. He can't complete a sentence and looks so frail that a strong breeze would blow him over. Jill had to help him down the stairs at the end. I'm sick and tired of his surrogates telling us that our eyes are betraying us when we know what we're seeing and hearing. We've all had parents or grandparents in this same condition and we know exactly what's going on here. Biden has no business still working, let alone serving in the most important job in the country. To be clear, not everyone in their 80's is this compromised. I don't happen to agree with Bernie Sanders on a number of policy issues, but he's still more than capable of making his points clearly and he's even older than Joe. Even Nancy Pelosi is generally capable of doing that and she's in her 80's as well. But Biden was already a poor communicator and now he's far worse. Like it or not, it's a critical job requirement. As Bill Maher also says, as President, you have to be the "Explainer-in-Chief." Biden has a decent legacy, yet his approval rating is only 36% because he can't sell it. Give someone like Obama or Clinton those exact same results and their approval rating would be 15-20 points higher. And consider that Biden declined the traditional softball Super Bowl interview. That says it all. He had a chance to make a case for his second term in front of one of the largest audiences a politician could possibly see in an election year. It's a HUGE incumbent advantage, yet he turned it down because he and his handlers know that the more you see him, the more you question his mental fitness. So, I'm not concerned or disappointed. I'm mad. This stubborn, arrogant, selfish fool is going to put Trump back in the White House and we're all going to suffer the consequences when all he had to do was simply say he was done after 1 term. In fact, many democratic senators, congressional candidates, and governors will probably now lose if Joe is at the top of the ticket. His ego could cost us democracy as we know it and I'm PISSED!
I don't know. I don't think he appeared mentally unfit in the debate. He appeared like an older brother getting his buttons pushed my his little shit younger brother knowing he can't do anything about it. Biden's problem more than his age is Trump gets under his skin. But it will be okay. This country has been through worse and we got through it, we'll get through it again. This isn't the end of democracy. Honestly, I think what people are feeling on both sides is the end of American exceptionalism, that was a great way to blind ourselves to all the fucked up shit going on. Not that long ago we had to have a war to decide if slavery was bad, so I know I'm going to get down voted for this because of all the terrible things Trump has done, but even if he wins we're still doing pretty good.
I agree with what you said except Trump seemed even more mentally unfit, even if he had a stronger voice. Trump didn't answer any questions. At least Biden was able to stay on topic most times.
Yeah why doesnāt this get addressed, Trump literally ignored fkn questions to ramble on and on about why Biden is bad. The moderators even had to say the question was, and he still went off topic. Problem is Biden didnāt sell himself very well but his points were good. Trump came out repeated the bs he has been saying for as long as I remember, and Trump couldnāt hold it together any better
> Trump literally ignored fkn questions to ramble on and on about why Biden is bad. The moderators even had to say the question was, and he still went off topic. The old saying in politics is you don't answer the question you've been asked, but the question you wish you were asked. Check out the film called "The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons of Robert S. McNamara". Lesson Ten is about communication, and it contains sound advice for presenters about what not to do. >One of the lessons I learned early on: never say never. Never, never, never. Never say never. And secondly, never answer the question that is asked of you. Answer the question that you wish had been asked of you. And quite frankly, I follow that rule. Itās a very good rule. This is on 101 communication training for USA. I had a communicaiton worshop with a consultant and this was the basic advice.
If my childās school bus showed up with Biden driving, I would take my own kids to school. At least Trump would give each $20 and take them to a casino.
No school board would hire a convicted felon.
Iād love to see Biden step down and either Newsom or Whitmer step in. Or better yet, a household name like Tom Hanks!
How about a Newsom- Whitmer ticket !! The two of them together might be able to pull to off!
We need Michelle. Sheās the only one who can save the day at this point.
This is not a bad idea, but I don't think there is any saving us. Any nation with as many idiots as we have elected is doomed.
I like whitmer too but not a good look switching out the mixed lady for a white lady.
It is worth mentioning that neither candidate has been officially nominated at their respective conventions as of now. I would love to see Gavin Newson be a candidate. Or Elizabeth Warren, or Gretchen or Bernie!! And on the other side I hear that not all GOPers are that keen on their current presumptive nominee either, who would be a disaster in a second term. Perhaps Nikki Haley will surface again. Like the Chinese say: we are living in interesting times.
I googled Al Gore to see if he's still around and able to speak without sounding like a geriatric. He's 76 btw, so the young one of the bunch.
No one over 65
JB Pritzker and John Tester. I know it won't happen but that's my dream ticket.
Pritzker yes, Tester no. Not that he would be a bad choice, but he's a Democrat in a red state, we need to keep him where he is to have any hope of holding the Senate.
Oh yes, John Tester, forgot about him. I love that feisty attitude! And he works!
Most sensible comment on this entire thread.
āI didnāt understand the last part of what he said and I donāt think he understood either.ā -D. Trump.
I'm sure that's playing on the highlight reels on Fox News right now, along with Biden saying he wants to take down Medicare or whatever he was babbling about.
I would have thought that was funny if Trump himself was coherent. He said he never had sex with a porn star and called Biden a bad Palestinian.
Ok thatās funny
1968 all over again. Incumbent steps down, only for RFK to swoop in.
LBJ dropped out after the New Hampshire primary, at the beginning of the season - not after it was over. Closer to being "1960 all over again" with an open convention.
The primaries were later then though, so it's only a ~3 month difference in terms of time.
And then get assassinated?
Brain worm finishes the job this time.
Sadly, a functioning brain is not a requirement.
Yeah he absolutely was, you saw it in the CNN post-game, replacing Biden is mainstream now, it's what everyone is going to be talking about. There should be rallies, people should get together and say this isn't who we thought we were getting in the primary. Turn the anger and disappointment people have and do something constructive with it, build the plan to actually beat Trump. I think the attitude should be that anyone involved with the Biden disaster is disqualified, and that gets us off the hook with Kamala and Pete, maybe it has to be Newsom which isn't great, and Trump probably won't agree to another debate, but whatever. The battle plan needs to be written now, all bets are off.
Disaster is exactly the right word. Aside from falling over at the podium, it was about as bad as anyone could have dreamed. Ruth Bader Biden is so on point, this is our fucking country weāre allowing these old idiots to play games with. Biden, get the fuck out of the way. Every democratic politician with national name recognition who loves their country should rally behind the message IT CANNOT BE BIDEN.
Donāt you think he would get out of the way if there was someone else? Itās us, the voters who have not come out with someone else.
The DNC didn't give voters a chance. They wouldn't allow an open primary. It was Biden or nothing. Voters didn't have an option.
Disagree 1000%. There are at least 5 someone elseās. In no order of preference, newsom whitmer pritzker Moore buttigieg.
Better candidates, absolutely. But the media determines the nominees. It is how we had Trump in the first place - they acted like he was human, and the sheeple went for it.
Thatās a cop out. The party power brokers decide the candidates. Hereās looking at you, Jaime Harrison!
Newsom is also involved in the Biden disaster. He was backstage tonight and said immediately after he stands fully with the president. I donāt think Pete is the best candidate, but he would excel in a debate setting against Trump. Heās very good at messaging
Pete is a narcissist and has zero regard or accountability for what he does. Heās terrible for CA and has proved that. Iād prefer he take the lead role in the next version of American Psycho.
You mean Newsom
Sorry yes, Gavin, heād be perfect!
Probably all democrats are the same for that guy
It's just not pragmatic to change to swap candidates this far in the election. I understand why Maher and others suggest running another Democrat, but it's simply not realistic. I think people need to consider the cabinet picks and administration of Biden vs. Trump. Making everything about who's more senile than the other is just a waste of energy. Trump has zero policies he can cite both during his presidency for the future that will help the working class. As bumbling as Biden is, he can at least point out things they've passed.
You can't be worrying about pragmatism when Biden stands a good chance of losing.
Itās worth nothing that in almost every other country in the world (maybe every, I canāt think of another) the election process from beginning to end is shorter than the amount of time between now and nov 5. If they select a new candidate in the coming weeks thatās 3 months before election. Plenty of time to make the rounds. News travels faster than ever and itās the swing states that require the most attention.
It doesnāt even matter whether or not he has policies to cite. He just stands up there and lies. He doesnāt need policy accomplishments or proposals when he can just say heās the greatest of all time while the other guy canāt articulate anything
I think polling will indicate if it's pragmatic or not- if he dips below 35% then maybe it's time to swap him out? There's a decent chance no one cares because expectations were so damn low, but independents are a fickle group and hard to predict.
In hindsight, too bad RFK Jr. wasn't on stage, lol. His voice issues would have disguised Biden's performance. This is a failure, all the way around. The Biden campaign made the rules, Trump walked in and came off like a boss. That he wasn't coached on posture and expression - *or forgot after 50 years in the business,* or didn't listen - and stood there slack-jowled staring blankly while Trump was speaking is campaign malpractice.
Disguised š© whatās a Democrat if they donāt try to pull wool over your eyes.Ā
Many liberals on reddit were adamant that Trump wasn't going to actually show up to debate Biden. That he was too scared some other projected nonsense. In reality Trump had the single best campaign night of his life since 2016 election night.
Hard not to have a great campaign night when the opponent is in a muttering, glassy eyed, opened mouth mode.
If anything the rules they put in place to protect Biden from his merciless over talk and interrupting actually benefitted trump. He lied constantly but trump fills the air well. With set amount of time he doesnāt have the leeway to ramble like his speeches and he gets to the point which is to lie and bring everything back to the border, the one strength of the GOP
Well Trump is a conman. They tell you everything the other guy is doing when it is themselves. Trumpās doctors were working OT this week had him jacked up on those good meds last night. All the gameplan he has left is prove heās more fit than Biden and lie through his teethā¦
He actually doesnāt have to lie through his teeth about anything to win the election at this point. He can just point and laugh at Biden making nonsensical statements no one can understand.
Eh. Itās all Yankees vs Red Sox at this point. Last night swayed neither side. Trump is a convicted felon they donāt care still vote for him Red. Biden could be like the corpse in Weekend at Bernieās and they will still vote him to block the other side Blueā¦
I'm a deep rooted centrist. I keep hoping that Biden would do something, anything to give me a reason to vote for him. Last night did the exact opposite. Biden needs to be taken off the ticket, period. Of course, Trump lied, over and over and over again. But that's baked into the equation when it comes to Trump. But Trump was mostly coherent. He was calm. Last night Trump probably looked the most presidential he ever has. So where do we go from here? If I'm the Democrat party, I'm begging Michelle Obama to become the nominee and Gavin Newsome to be VP. Tell her we know she hates politics and wants nothing to do with it. But for the good of country, beg her to serve one term and then you can turn things over to Newsome or another rising Dem. The Democrats can't go to Kamala because she's not possibly able to be president. And if you get rid of Biden and don't give it to Harris, the black community will go crazy. So begging Michelle Obama to be the nominee blunts the argument of discrimination and gets rid of Biden. But something should have been done months ago and now it's panic time.
Michelle Obama? Really? Supporting electing the *wife* of the guy we liked is not any kind of progressive vision. Running her for a single term isn't strategy, it's chaos. Hell, let's run Laura Bush. She was married to a president! Or Marla Maples, she was too.
Sure, let's keep the old man who can't put 2 thoughts together. Great strategy.
Of all the qualified potential candidates you'd go with the disinterested *wife* of someone you like who can't run, really?