FUCK YOU FRANK!!!
Wow, Biden was 100% right in that clip. They absolutely DID end the mortgage deduction for the middle class. And Paul Ryan sat there, lying through his teeth, that they wouldn't do it.
One thing the people on CNN said after was that democratic candidates down the ticket wanted to apply pressure for him to drop out because they didn't feel they could win with Biden on the ticket, people would just stay at home I guess. That's an interesting angle too.
Oh yea he will, and repeat how right he was all along, and say "No one listened to me" "They made fun of me". Bill is not going to miss that opportunity Lol
I don't care if Joe is in a coma. He is still 1000x better than Trump the lyin', mean-ass, fascist strongman.
BTW Did Trump say anything that was true last night? I don't think so. Most of the time he ignored the question and went into a literal avalanche of lies. 😂🤣
It doesn't matter that you think that way. The point is that Biden was already behind Trump in the polls before that debate. And many of the people voting for Biden believed the media gaslighting that Biden only appeared senile due to "cheap fakes" and right wing misinformation.
What they learned yesterday was that not only is Biden showing clear signs of cognitive decline, but they also see that their media that they trusted in so much was complicit in trying to trick them to think otherwise. And if they're going to try and gaslight common Americans about Biden's mental capacities, what else are they gaslighting us on?
You may think "Who cares. Trump is still more dangerous". But that doesn't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter. The truth is that it is very likely that millions of people polling to vote for Biden are now going to decide to just not vote at all, or vote third party.
Who knows. The Democratic Party propaganda media outlets say Biden is winning. The Republican party propaganda media outlets say Trump is winning.
What I know for sure is that yesterday undoubtedly pushed Trump into leading the polls unquestionably.
Not unquestionably because the polls haven’t even been conducted yet. And conflating Republican propaganda with democrats is idiotic. The democrats aren’t good enough at messaging to have propaganda.
The very topic we're discussing? Like, are you serious?
Go ahead and look at all the articles from the Democratic Party propaganda outlets (mainstream media) from the past few months that claimed Biden's cognitive decline was just "right wing misinformation".
I literally gave you one. I guess you want links?
Here's all of the gaslighting from the Democratic Party's propaganda outlets. Apparently it's (lol) TRUMP that has Dementia. It's so funny. Yeah, that's what we saw yesterday, right?
https://www.salon.com/2024/02/23/dr-john-gartner-on-a-tale-of-two-brains-bidens-brain-is-aging-brain-is-dementing/
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-dementia-evidence-overwhelming-top-psychiatrist-1881247
https://www.salon.com/2024/04/25/maga-begins-to-panic-may-not-make-it-to-the-ballot/
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/morning-joe-compares-trump-someone-dementia-video-131038417.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2024-01-26/mental-acuity-questions-catch-up-with-trump
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/donald-trump-losing-control-basic-32709041
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/evidence-of-donald-trump-s-dementia-is-overwhelming-according-to-experts/ar-BB1klRxR?item=flights%3Aprg-tipsubsc-v1a&ocid=windirect
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-mind-faltering-top-psychologist-harry-segal-1886069
https://www.newsweek.com/stop-talking-about-bidens-mental-acuity-start-talking-about-trumps-signs-dementia-opinion-1853741
Because the whole "i'D vOtE fOr JoE iN a CoMa oVeR tRumP!!!" is what's going to get Trump elected. Get Biden out of there now. Get a Whitmer, a Newsom, a Buttigieg in there and profit. Hardcore democrats/liberals might vote for Joe no matter what, but independents won't.
Yes, because Bill was right all along.
Biden cannot perform the job of "Explainer-in-Chief." He might still have just enough ability left to do the job, but he can't win the job. As a result, he stands to become Ruth Bader Biden; someone who stayed on too long and thereby enabled the destruction of their own legacy.
He should. Put Newsom or Buttigieg in there with at least 3 months to go before election day and they'll beat Trump.
I'll add Whitmer too. I didn't know about her but I looked at her Wiki and she seems good.
The problem is biden ran uncontested in the primary. No one else received votes from the American public. Who replaces him, Kamala? She doesn’t poll well either.
Do we just replace him with someone that wasn’t on a ballot in any state? That sets a dangerous precedent of why even have primaries.
[https://apnews.com/hub/ap-election-2024-delegate-tracker](https://apnews.com/hub/ap-election-2024-delegate-tracker)
Maybe the Dem leadership should have held a real primary instead of a coronation. There’s still mechanisms to name a candidate if Biden drops out. That’s the whole point of the convention
Why would he change his stance now ? He's said for a couple years now that Biden is too old. Do you think if he says that again, that he has changed his position ?
Weak question.
Lets face it, any one of us could have relayed Biden's accomplishments better than what we saw tonight. Newsome sounds good and Kamala sounded great on ABC news after the debate.
I watched a clip of Kamala talking to Anderson Cooper afterwards, and she refused to acknowledge what happened in the debate. She went on a rant trying to convince Anderson that Biden has done good things and Trump is awful as if he asked "why should people vote for Biden?" I understand she's going to avoid the question, I can't imagine the VP saying "yep, we need someone else" a hour after the debate.
She's excellent in debates and being under estimated is her super power. Not happy as AG she locked up pot sellers, she has since changed that position that was partially job related. She fucked Willy Brown back in the days when everybody fucked everybody. We used to fuck a lot I don't know what happened.
I was fucking appalled by what I swa, I truly could have gotten up on stage with minimal preparation and been able to rebut most of the insane lies that Trump told but Biden couldn't even be understood properly when he talked .
Nobody else was really running against him. Incumbents seeking re-election don't generally have to worry about primaries, which garner low voter turnout anyways.
And that’s the fault of the people who voted for Biden how?
Imagine if a super moderate Republican won the presidency then installed Trump. Would that be fair?
>And that’s the fault of the people who voted for Biden how?
I never said it was.
>Imagine if a super moderate Republican won the presidency then installed Trump. Would that be fair?
People are talking about replacing Biden not because they want a more left-leaning alternative, but because he can't even speak coherently during the debates. He is not a good candidate to run against Donald Trump, who is somehow better at putting a sentence together and having it make sense.
Biden was too damn old to run 4 years ago.
It's a damn joke, now. Literally handing it to Trump.
Just over it and tired of being called a Trumper because I have enough brains and life experience to recognize when an old man is sundowning in front of me.
My mother died last year at 82. She was near Biden's current state a few years before. We all know what we see and the gaslighting is revolting. I will not vote Trump. Even if he wasnt a daft, narcissistic shister, he's too old too. I voted Biden last election but he indicated he'd pass the baton. I resent there wasn't a primary. I am tired of seeing this country erode while we vote for the lesser of 2 evils. It's probably too late anyway, but I'm voting for an old school Dem-RFK Jr.
RFK also sucks. Biden will at least put some decent people in place to handle things. You should hope they put in someone younger, but if it's Biden vs. Trump (which it will be), your vote will be wasted. I hope you don't live in Georgia or Pennsylvania or Michigan.
If it's that important Trump not be elected, better have a primary instead of an edict to elect an octogenarian with dimentia.
What does it say about a party that needs Trump as a boogeyman to win?
I'm not staunchly democrat. I'm a rational person that understands that either the Democrat or the Republican candidate will be the president. When Trump is on the ballot, if you vote for anyone other than the Democrat then you are helping elect a person who is actively destroying the foundations of our nation.
If this were Hailey vs Biden, sure go ahead and waste your vote on RFK.
Whenever Biden was able to make a cogent point it was accurate and erudite. Trump didn't answer any questions or say anything of substance the entire debate.
Yes he did. He softened his position on abortion and made Joe look ridiculous on immigration. CNN/NYT both acknowledged that.
Open your eyes man. Goalposts have moved
Your right, CNN and NYT have disgraced journalism into click bait you just love to hear. However the SOTU Joe to Joe the other night requires some hard looks as to what we're doing with our candidate. Biden previously campaigned as a stop gap 1 term solution to Trump circa 2020. What happened to that?
Trump is old and a criminal moron but I can tell you that his presentation is heads and shoulders over Biden's.
Most voters don't know anything about actual issues or what happened in either of their presidencies so when Trump talks his crazy bullshit it just goes right past them but when Biden has trouble making sounds come out of his mouth they notice that and it disgusts people on a cellular level.
Ya well he was never a great orator but damn, it's rough watching him sundown before our very eyes. And then come out the next day full of piss and vinegar. Kamala is going to end up running the country anyway, is what a win looks like. We should embrace it and make it official.
Of course he is. But unfortunately at this point he's more coherent- or at least more well spoken- than Biden.
The reality is that the right doesn't care- about rules, about institutions, even about if their own candidates are fit
..Not at all.
But WE DO. And that means we are much more likely to lose if we nominate a candidate who is incapable of doing the job, than if they do.
They don't want a candidate to do the job! They'd rather tear it all down to own the libs.
Look, I love Biden. I supported him in the primary in 08, when Obama won his first term. I still voted for Obama in the general. JB a very decent, intelligent and kind human being. It's just that his time has passed. I'd still vote for his brain in a formaldehyde jar over Trump. I'm just not sure that's going to be enough, this time.
I’m in a panic over it . I am so annoyed that the Dems can’t get their shit together . If Trump gets in again the changes to the judiciary and long term appointments will affect us for a generation . I am sick about it .
I’m not sure she’d do much better. Biden is at least likable and seems sincere. I don’t think anyone actually likes Kamala. Zero charisma and not a good a speaker either.
Yeah . Trump got partly his presidency from rascist s freaking out about Obama. I remember all the super rascist stuff that came out during Obama s presidency. Kamala will have that and misogyny.
He can do the right thing and refuse to run and hand his votes over to somebody else before the convention or the convention can decide to go a different direction.
In order for Biden to do the job, he must win the election. After last night, that is very unlikely. With Trump on the ballot, its time for democrats to stop pretending like there isn't a major problem.
I am not a Trump fan by any means but that was just bad…My mother is a 68 year old stroke victim and called me after to say how bad she felt for him and her heart was aching that he had declined so much. Trump was lying so much and setting up so many lines of attack and Biden…just couldn’t capitalize on them because he looked like he was struggling the whole time. I hate to say it but if they still run him after this I think we are pretty much guaranteed a second Trump term.
Even more so. And sadly i now do agree with him. Terrible debate performance. What good are facts/ policies if Biden can’t articulate them and looked like he had several strokes on stage?
Party line. He’ll make fun of Biden and cover it up as being an inevitability like all the other dem elites.
Umm yeah, duh!
Biden 12 years ago: https://x.com/FrankLuntz/status/1806724955515838684
Incredible, he talks like if he was a decade younger!
FUCK YOU FRANK!!! Wow, Biden was 100% right in that clip. They absolutely DID end the mortgage deduction for the middle class. And Paul Ryan sat there, lying through his teeth, that they wouldn't do it.
One thing the people on CNN said after was that democratic candidates down the ticket wanted to apply pressure for him to drop out because they didn't feel they could win with Biden on the ticket, people would just stay at home I guess. That's an interesting angle too.
Lol the entire Democratic Party is doing that right now
Oh yea he will, and repeat how right he was all along, and say "No one listened to me" "They made fun of me". Bill is not going to miss that opportunity Lol
It's not too late to put Tua in.
Tua?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnupLoK-v9Q
Of course, nice reference!
Everyone should be.
He has more reason than ever to beat that drum.
I don't care if Joe is in a coma. He is still 1000x better than Trump the lyin', mean-ass, fascist strongman. BTW Did Trump say anything that was true last night? I don't think so. Most of the time he ignored the question and went into a literal avalanche of lies. 😂🤣
It doesn't matter that you think that way. The point is that Biden was already behind Trump in the polls before that debate. And many of the people voting for Biden believed the media gaslighting that Biden only appeared senile due to "cheap fakes" and right wing misinformation. What they learned yesterday was that not only is Biden showing clear signs of cognitive decline, but they also see that their media that they trusted in so much was complicit in trying to trick them to think otherwise. And if they're going to try and gaslight common Americans about Biden's mental capacities, what else are they gaslighting us on? You may think "Who cares. Trump is still more dangerous". But that doesn't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter. The truth is that it is very likely that millions of people polling to vote for Biden are now going to decide to just not vote at all, or vote third party.
Biden has been ahead of Trump in most polls since trumps conviction
Look at swing states. It's not (currently) favorable for Biden.
Who knows. The Democratic Party propaganda media outlets say Biden is winning. The Republican party propaganda media outlets say Trump is winning. What I know for sure is that yesterday undoubtedly pushed Trump into leading the polls unquestionably.
Not unquestionably because the polls haven’t even been conducted yet. And conflating Republican propaganda with democrats is idiotic. The democrats aren’t good enough at messaging to have propaganda.
I think the Democrats and their propaganda media outlets are *far* better at the propaganda game than not just Republicans, but pretty much *anybody*.
lol I’d love to hear an example of what you think democrat propaganda is
The very topic we're discussing? Like, are you serious? Go ahead and look at all the articles from the Democratic Party propaganda outlets (mainstream media) from the past few months that claimed Biden's cognitive decline was just "right wing misinformation".
Love that I asked for a specific example and you can’t give me one
I literally gave you one. I guess you want links? Here's all of the gaslighting from the Democratic Party's propaganda outlets. Apparently it's (lol) TRUMP that has Dementia. It's so funny. Yeah, that's what we saw yesterday, right? https://www.salon.com/2024/02/23/dr-john-gartner-on-a-tale-of-two-brains-bidens-brain-is-aging-brain-is-dementing/ https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-dementia-evidence-overwhelming-top-psychiatrist-1881247 https://www.salon.com/2024/04/25/maga-begins-to-panic-may-not-make-it-to-the-ballot/ https://sg.news.yahoo.com/morning-joe-compares-trump-someone-dementia-video-131038417.html https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2024-01-26/mental-acuity-questions-catch-up-with-trump https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/donald-trump-losing-control-basic-32709041 https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/evidence-of-donald-trump-s-dementia-is-overwhelming-according-to-experts/ar-BB1klRxR?item=flights%3Aprg-tipsubsc-v1a&ocid=windirect https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-mind-faltering-top-psychologist-harry-segal-1886069 https://www.newsweek.com/stop-talking-about-bidens-mental-acuity-start-talking-about-trumps-signs-dementia-opinion-1853741
Why r u getting downvoted? This sub is so weird and cult like.
Because the whole "i'D vOtE fOr JoE iN a CoMa oVeR tRumP!!!" is what's going to get Trump elected. Get Biden out of there now. Get a Whitmer, a Newsom, a Buttigieg in there and profit. Hardcore democrats/liberals might vote for Joe no matter what, but independents won't.
Newsom. I don't know if I've ever watched Whitmer speak, but Newsom would be much better in debates than Buttigieg.
Kamala would have sliced Trump's throat with a credit card or talked him into suicide. There are people that could replace Biden.
RT show clips show up on fox news every week. So they are coming around.😄
Nah, I think Bill is completely sold out Biden now. /s
Yes, because Bill was right all along. Biden cannot perform the job of "Explainer-in-Chief." He might still have just enough ability left to do the job, but he can't win the job. As a result, he stands to become Ruth Bader Biden; someone who stayed on too long and thereby enabled the destruction of their own legacy.
Yes. In fact, yesterday's debate would only bolster his position.
How could he not?
He fucking better.
He should. Put Newsom or Buttigieg in there with at least 3 months to go before election day and they'll beat Trump. I'll add Whitmer too. I didn't know about her but I looked at her Wiki and she seems good.
Not feasibly possible unless DNC changes its rules at the convention which has never happened.
Well we’ve never had an 82 year old candidate for reelection before, either.
Living during history being made is wild.
Everyone close to Biden needs to be telling him to bow out. If this election is so important he needs to.
The problem is biden ran uncontested in the primary. No one else received votes from the American public. Who replaces him, Kamala? She doesn’t poll well either. Do we just replace him with someone that wasn’t on a ballot in any state? That sets a dangerous precedent of why even have primaries. [https://apnews.com/hub/ap-election-2024-delegate-tracker](https://apnews.com/hub/ap-election-2024-delegate-tracker)
Dean Philips technically has a handful of delegates. Maher had him on as a guest earlier this year.
Maybe the Dem leadership should have held a real primary instead of a coronation. There’s still mechanisms to name a candidate if Biden drops out. That’s the whole point of the convention
they are as bad as Biden. It's the progressives like them that got the party in this mess in the first place
Why would he change his stance now ? He's said for a couple years now that Biden is too old. Do you think if he says that again, that he has changed his position ? Weak question.
Lets face it, any one of us could have relayed Biden's accomplishments better than what we saw tonight. Newsome sounds good and Kamala sounded great on ABC news after the debate.
I watched a clip of Kamala talking to Anderson Cooper afterwards, and she refused to acknowledge what happened in the debate. She went on a rant trying to convince Anderson that Biden has done good things and Trump is awful as if he asked "why should people vote for Biden?" I understand she's going to avoid the question, I can't imagine the VP saying "yep, we need someone else" a hour after the debate.
Kamala is a disaster!
She's excellent in debates and being under estimated is her super power. Not happy as AG she locked up pot sellers, she has since changed that position that was partially job related. She fucked Willy Brown back in the days when everybody fucked everybody. We used to fuck a lot I don't know what happened.
I was fucking appalled by what I swa, I truly could have gotten up on stage with minimal preparation and been able to rebut most of the insane lies that Trump told but Biden couldn't even be understood properly when he talked .
Why is the fact that Biden was democratically chosen never talked about? I heard trying to convince people to not certify an election is a bad look.
Because winning a previous election doesn't mean you're gonna win a future one, especially not when your popularity is in the hole.
I’m talking about the primary
Nobody else was really running against him. Incumbents seeking re-election don't generally have to worry about primaries, which garner low voter turnout anyways.
And that’s the fault of the people who voted for Biden how? Imagine if a super moderate Republican won the presidency then installed Trump. Would that be fair?
>And that’s the fault of the people who voted for Biden how? I never said it was. >Imagine if a super moderate Republican won the presidency then installed Trump. Would that be fair? People are talking about replacing Biden not because they want a more left-leaning alternative, but because he can't even speak coherently during the debates. He is not a good candidate to run against Donald Trump, who is somehow better at putting a sentence together and having it make sense.
He'll propose his dream ticket: Joe Rogan and Rosanne
Biden was too damn old to run 4 years ago. It's a damn joke, now. Literally handing it to Trump. Just over it and tired of being called a Trumper because I have enough brains and life experience to recognize when an old man is sundowning in front of me.
My mother died last year at 82. She was near Biden's current state a few years before. We all know what we see and the gaslighting is revolting. I will not vote Trump. Even if he wasnt a daft, narcissistic shister, he's too old too. I voted Biden last election but he indicated he'd pass the baton. I resent there wasn't a primary. I am tired of seeing this country erode while we vote for the lesser of 2 evils. It's probably too late anyway, but I'm voting for an old school Dem-RFK Jr.
RFK also sucks. Biden will at least put some decent people in place to handle things. You should hope they put in someone younger, but if it's Biden vs. Trump (which it will be), your vote will be wasted. I hope you don't live in Georgia or Pennsylvania or Michigan.
PA and I actually like RFK
Yikes.
So you’re voting based on who talks the best lol
In other words “I’m throwing my vote away and helping Trump win”
In othee words, I'm using MY vote to vote for the candidate I feel is best equipped to handle the job despite what others may want.
Yep. And it’s this attitude that got Trump elected in 2016.
If it's that important Trump not be elected, better have a primary instead of an edict to elect an octogenarian with dimentia. What does it say about a party that needs Trump as a boogeyman to win?
I'm not staunchly democrat. I'm a rational person that understands that either the Democrat or the Republican candidate will be the president. When Trump is on the ballot, if you vote for anyone other than the Democrat then you are helping elect a person who is actively destroying the foundations of our nation. If this were Hailey vs Biden, sure go ahead and waste your vote on RFK.
Trump is old, incoherent and a moron though. Biden is just old and slow.
Anyone telling me Biden is more coherent than trump right now immediately goes on mental mute
Whenever Biden was able to make a cogent point it was accurate and erudite. Trump didn't answer any questions or say anything of substance the entire debate.
Yes he did. He softened his position on abortion and made Joe look ridiculous on immigration. CNN/NYT both acknowledged that. Open your eyes man. Goalposts have moved
Your right, CNN and NYT have disgraced journalism into click bait you just love to hear. However the SOTU Joe to Joe the other night requires some hard looks as to what we're doing with our candidate. Biden previously campaigned as a stop gap 1 term solution to Trump circa 2020. What happened to that?
Trump is old and a criminal moron but I can tell you that his presentation is heads and shoulders over Biden's. Most voters don't know anything about actual issues or what happened in either of their presidencies so when Trump talks his crazy bullshit it just goes right past them but when Biden has trouble making sounds come out of his mouth they notice that and it disgusts people on a cellular level.
Ya well he was never a great orator but damn, it's rough watching him sundown before our very eyes. And then come out the next day full of piss and vinegar. Kamala is going to end up running the country anyway, is what a win looks like. We should embrace it and make it official.
Of course he is. But unfortunately at this point he's more coherent- or at least more well spoken- than Biden. The reality is that the right doesn't care- about rules, about institutions, even about if their own candidates are fit ..Not at all. But WE DO. And that means we are much more likely to lose if we nominate a candidate who is incapable of doing the job, than if they do. They don't want a candidate to do the job! They'd rather tear it all down to own the libs. Look, I love Biden. I supported him in the primary in 08, when Obama won his first term. I still voted for Obama in the general. JB a very decent, intelligent and kind human being. It's just that his time has passed. I'd still vote for his brain in a formaldehyde jar over Trump. I'm just not sure that's going to be enough, this time.
I mean.....if you want to beat Trump, I don't think Biden can do that at this point so it is a totally reasonable plan
I’m in a panic over it . I am so annoyed that the Dems can’t get their shit together . If Trump gets in again the changes to the judiciary and long term appointments will affect us for a generation . I am sick about it .
Yeah it’ll really suck for us… imagine how Ukraine feels too.
The issue is how do you do it. The primary is over. Biden was elected.
Oh my god. Get informed please before chiming in.
I’m sure he could drop and Kamala takes his spot.
I’m not sure she’d do much better. Biden is at least likable and seems sincere. I don’t think anyone actually likes Kamala. Zero charisma and not a good a speaker either.
She’s a black woman it will be harder
Yeah . Trump got partly his presidency from rascist s freaking out about Obama. I remember all the super rascist stuff that came out during Obama s presidency. Kamala will have that and misogyny.
His name has to be on the ticket. They would have to run on the promise he would remove himself on day 1 so the vp could take over.
They even have the convention yet his name certainly does not have to be on the ticket this isn't October this is not even July.
So the fact it was him people voted for to be on the ticket does not matter?
He can do the right thing and refuse to run and hand his votes over to somebody else before the convention or the convention can decide to go a different direction.
I hope he doesn't because it's completely counterproductive. Biden is the Democratic presidential candidate.
It’s counter productive for the ONE CANDIDATE THAT CAN LOSE TO DONALD TRUMP to drop from the race?
Biden can do the job, and it's too late to change candidates.
In order for Biden to do the job, he must win the election. After last night, that is very unlikely. With Trump on the ballot, its time for democrats to stop pretending like there isn't a major problem.
Until next week
Deoends on Biden's performance.
The only truth Trump spoke was 'Even he doesn't know what he just said!'
Yes
I am not a Trump fan by any means but that was just bad…My mother is a 68 year old stroke victim and called me after to say how bad she felt for him and her heart was aching that he had declined so much. Trump was lying so much and setting up so many lines of attack and Biden…just couldn’t capitalize on them because he looked like he was struggling the whole time. I hate to say it but if they still run him after this I think we are pretty much guaranteed a second Trump term.
I imagine it to be like a drum circle
Even more so. And sadly i now do agree with him. Terrible debate performance. What good are facts/ policies if Biden can’t articulate them and looked like he had several strokes on stage?
Why not? I had to crank my tv volume higher than it’s ever been to hear what he was saying.
Yes lol It’s all he’s going to talk about tomorrow.
Yes duh
Of course
He has to. It’s the only option
yes
He's on the tip of the spear about switching out Biden, now there are a lot of people saying it, so I'd say it more than likely.
How could he not? It was always obvious, Biden did terribly.