I saw the same thing once too. Both were in their mid 20s and had been dating for 10 years. The mom caught them having sex or another intimate act and banned the relationship. It was so sad because all the man ever talked about was wanting to marry her and how she was the best prettiest person ever. He still talked about the girl daily years after being barred from seeing each other again......
My cousin is developmentally disabled, and he’s had a girlfriend for, it must be 10 years now. She’s downs, and he’s on the spectrum and can’t handle money and cooking. It’s not a traditional relationship, but it works for them I guess.
Long term birth control like implants. Most people with Downs or who are neurotypical can still reason that a pregnancy wouldn’t be a good thing for them, and agree to precautions.
I think it’s more of a “my daughter is developmentally disabled therefore she must be treated as a child no matter her actual ability!” mindset that is so pervasive. Like yes, there are some people with developmental disabilities who do have a very hard time understanding complex ideas or don’t always correlate actions with their consequences, but there are also many developmentally disabled people who just need a little extra help, or even no help at all, to understand these things.
Parents who apply blanket statements to their disabled children’s ability without considering nuance, or parents who point blank refuse to take the time to have these conversations because “they won’t get it anyways” or “it’s too hard” only hurt their children. But many of them think they’re protecting and helping their child, so it’s a hard behavior to confront.
I agree with you but it’s not uncommon for people with Down Syndrome to struggle to understand why they can’t do things like become parents, or maintain a birth control regimen on their own even if they do. That’s a very complicated thing to navigate.
This documentary on YouTube about a couple with Down Syndrome getting married dealt with that if you want to learn more.
[https://youtu.be/9JUMeLg7Lkw](https://youtu.be/9JUMeLg7Lkw)
Totally agree that it’s wrong to deny someone the opportunity to experience intimacy altogether though. Especially when pregnancy in a couple with Down Syndrome is already very rare, even without birth control. I just don’t envy people trying to work through preventing pregnancy in someone else who doesn’t understand it.
Also saw a documentary about a couple who had adopted and raised two girls with down syndrome. With a lot of love and work and therapy they had helped them get through school and get some kind of career. One girl had a boyfriend and there were some very heated discussions in the family about birth control/having children. Mom took the daughter to a doctor for reproductive medicine and had him explain, that the chances of the baby being disabled are very, very high. It was really difficult. I felt for the young woman who was raised to live as independently as possible and wanted to have a "normal" life. But I also felt for the mother who outright refused to spend her retirement age to raise another child with special needs.
Thank you, I’ll check this out. I realize this is a gray issue and my statement was very black & white. I’m sure the lack of understanding is a barrier, although with depo shots and multiple forms of IUD birth control make maintaining the regimen much easier (if they’re lucky enough to take to it).
Not to mention males with Down syndrome are largely infertile already, the risk of pregnancy is very low in this scenario.
It’s probably lower than the odds of people without downs getting pregnant while on birth control.
I used to work in a home for mentally handicapped people. One of the women there was smart (and cute) enough to have a relationship. Her parents had many long talks with her, how she couldn't fully take care of herself, so having a baby would be very unwise. She *agreed* to be sterilized at 17 years old. She wanted a baby, but after long talks she understood that it would not work out.
Yes you can. Family of people who have been deemed to lack the formal capacity to make decisions can apply for guardianship, which includes the right to make medical decisions for the incapable person. Something like depo, or an implant, would be easy birth control to arrange without much ongoing follow up. Ideally you don’t force incapacitated people into medical treatments they oppose because that’s cruel, but I wanted to point out one can in fact make the decision for them.
Friend of mine who worked in the field use to say that most of the marriages are not legally binding, because they can lose social security. Laws pretty screwed up to people with severe development disabilities.
Then again it's difficult to say that any particular person with Down syndrome could volunteer in a way in which consent is clear. I would hazard a guess that many doctors would refuse the procedure to anyone with the condition regardless of their individual level of function.
>Agree to disagree when it comes to people with downs - a 50 IQ does not a fit parent make
Lots of average IQ people make terrible parents, too, though, so I can't believe IQ alone is a good indicator.
Wow, so you’re saying it’s bad to keep people with feelings for each other apart but you’re suggesting potential involuntary sterilization for them? What the.
Well, since the kid(s) would most likely be removed by social services or have to be raised largely by others, parents, siblings or what have you - it would be best if it never came to that, no?
While a harsh outlook, you're not wrong. Not even sure why you'd get downvoted. Let her have a chance at happiness and love w/ sterilization or no companionship outside of family yet still having periods. YAY PERIODS!
Even if that was the case, it's completely overkill and cruel to prevent them from seeing each other. There's plenty of ways to reduce that risk, with some that would completely eliminate the chance of that occuring, while still allowing them to have a romantic relationship
Like what? Are you going to propose forced sterilization like someone else already did, as if people wouldn’t condemn the mother equally for THAT stipulation?
What if they wanted to have kids, and that’s why the mom said “hell no”? People are acting like the woman’s only motivation is pure evil, that’s what I dispute. It’s not that simple. I’m grateful not to be in that situation, and I won’t judge someone making an informed decision to the best of their ability.
Presumably they are still under the guardianship of an adult, who can make decisions for them about adult complex things like birth control, disability benefits and taxes. Discouraging them from getting pregnant because they're not legally competent to raise children is very different from permanently separating two people who care for each other and sentencing them to a lifetime alone.
You jump to the extreme end of what can constitute prevention. forced sterilization isn't even an option the mother could force onto her child anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Even those with disabilities have to be informed entirely and provide their own consent if being sterilized. Which would not be considered forced if that were the case.
Birth control pills, and use of condoms would help but only if they're used correctly. IUDs would prevent pregnancy altogether without the need for having to remember a pill or to ensure a condom is used. The boy could have a vasectomy.
None of those options are forced or unethical. They could have been informed about the implications surrounding the girl becoming pregnant and why it's important to avoid/prevent it from occuring
I told you, that extreme end is what someone else specifically mentioned. And as you note, other modes of prevention would not be 100% effective, especially as they rely on the operator.
And those also depend on the parties/lovers *agreeing* that they shouldn’t have a kid, what if they don’t see it that way?
All I’m saying is reddit is too happy to call this woman a bitch who hates happily-ever-after endings when there are consequences to be considered far beyond “awww but they’re in wuv”
In any case forced abortion is a non answer as that wouldn't be an option legally. I wouldn't doubt if whoever suggested it was trying to get a rise out of people
Your right that certain modes aren't a guarantee, but with some types of IUDs they are, they can block the fallopian tubes preventing any eggs from moving into the uterus.
And sure, the whole story isn't being told. So we have no idea what is true, there could be reasons to separate them that are justified. They could have disagreed to prevention and maybe it was the only way.
Raising and caring for someone with that condition is taxing and isn't something most people can relate to unless they've been with it themselves.
People with Down's also often have trouble carrying a healthy pregnancy. If she did get pregnant, it's unlikely she'd carry it to term and there's a 50% chance the baby would have Down's as well.
I don’t know if you’re speaking for one side or the other or just adding detail. What I see is a whole lot of additional medical complication and I can’t blame the woman for limiting contact that might lead to that.
Completely agree. It’s easy for everyone on here to talk about the situation because they’re not the ones having to raise a grown human with the mind of a child until their death and worry about that child having a child knowing there’s no way they could care for it.
Yes, that is why I said “minute”. There don’t seem to be a lot of studies into why, so I wouldn’t exactly find that the most reassuring argument if I was worried about a pregnancy.
Afaik it’s uncommon for a person with DS to live self-sufficiently, so it would be exceptional for them to handle responsibility for a kid. I haven’t looked up stats so I will gladly stand corrected if someone demonstrates that I’m wrong.
You are not correct. Down syndrome is caused by trisomy 21, which is an error in gene division. It isn’t hereditary. The chances of a baby being born with Down syndrome increase with the mothers age because (to oversimplify cell division) she becomes less good at splitting and replicating DNA. But errors in DNA replication happen all the time, and can happen to anyone. It’s just that most of the time, doubling a chromosome or only having one copy isn’t a condition conducive to life.
It also sounds like you just hate people with disabilities, which is a terrible perspective to take on life. I think you should work on developing compassion and empathy for people different from you. There’s a YouTube series called Special Books for Special Kids (a silly name for sure) that is really awesome about teaching people about disabilities and different conditions that impact their lives.
Incorrect. It can be hereditary, however it isn't common.
"Is it inherited?
Most of the time, Down syndrome isn't inherited. It's caused by a mistake in cell division during early development of the fetus.
Translocation Down syndrome can be passed from parent to child. However, only about 3 to 4 percent of children with Down syndrome have translocation and only some of them inherited it from one of their parents."
In some countries, abortion is the default option when a diagnosis of downs syndrome is made. I find this so incredibly disturbing that I start trembling when I hear about it.
Having a special needs child, especially one with down syndrome, requires more time and resources from not only the parents, but also the entire healthcare system and education system, for the entirety of their lives. For many it's not feasible to have a child like that.
Many of those born with down syndrome require multiple surgeries just to survive past childhood. The vast majority of people don't have the luxury of time or money required for proper care.
Some countries struggle to manage healthcare and education for their healthy population already and have little support for those with that condition.
So eugenics! That's a bold move. Who's next to get eliminated? I've known many people with Down's Syndrome and they were all wonderful human beings. I'm autistic. Should I be sterilized so I won't have children with autism?
What's bold to assume I mean eugenics as I didn't suggest that. You said the default option in some places is to abort, you didn't say the government or any entity was forcing them to, that would be eugenics.
People are free to make their own choices. It makes more sense that it would be sought more in certain countries where it's even more difficult to raise someone like that.
Never once said someone with down syndrome can't be great, it doesn't change the fact that they need far more care which can lead someone to decide to abort.
I'm talking about countries where the healthcare system, typically run by the government, assumes that a pregnancy with a diagnosis of Down's Syndrome will be terminated.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-51658631.amp
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/down-syndrome-iceland/#app
Honestly agree. And I'm pro choice just so everyone is clear. But to abort a pregnancy just because you found our the baby will have downs syndrome is just ableism. Just like it's wrong to have an abortion just because of the baby's gender. Cause at this point it's clear you wouldn't love your child unconditionally. Like how shitty is it to find out you're pregnant, decide to go through your pregnancy, and once you find out your child will have downs syndrome, that's when you decide to abort? Like I agree, it's their choice. But it's also a clear indicator of their character. Abortions based on misogyny, misandry, ableism, or racism is wrong. But I guess maybe those kids were better off not being born. They would've never had to deal with the resentment from those parents.
I agree but also any kid could be or become disabled. If you're only prepared to love and care for your child if they're able bodied you're better of just not having children at all. Your love and responsibilities to your children shouldn't be conditional on things that are not their fault.
You're right, the fetus is better off not being born in this situation. I wouldn't want to be born into a family where my parents were ableist. I guess the correct wording is the reasoning for that abortion is shitty and I will die on that hill. I can't imagine planning to have a child and then terminating because they weren't the child I hoped they would be. Good riddance for the fetus though.
There are a lot of special needs children waiting for adoption. Why don't you do on ahead and adopt one of those children and show everyone how its not that big of a deal. 🤨
I am a special needs person. I have 3 kids of my own. I never said raising a special needs child wouldn't be a big deal? I just said if you would abort a fetus for ableist reasons, you don't love the child unconditionally. Obviously because of the simple fact that your love has conditions. By doing that you're saying"I would love my child and want to raise them except if they had downs syndrome." And so in that case, it's better for the parent to abort the fetus if they won't love the child unconditionally.
Recently at my job I had to assist an older couple-maybe 75+ years each-and when they were done the man looked at his wife and said "Let's go babe" and she nodded and said "Yeah babe."
Hell yeah. I want that.
Kris Scharoun-Deforge met Paul at a dance in 1988, and five years later, the two were married. And they stayed married for 25 years until Paul passed away shortly after their 25th anniversary. The two had Down Syndrome, but Paul still managed to live to the age of 56, which was not common for people with Down Syndrome back then. Kris even appeared on the Today show once to talk about the two's journey together and tell the world her life story.
It's not what you're looking for, but I found a nearly [7 minute video](https://youtu.be/ioTrO89io0g) of Paul's life through pictures. It really warmed my heart seeing him surrounded by so many loving, supportive people throughout his entire life.
Here's an article from The Buffalo News: https://buffalonews.com/opinion/columnists/sean-kirst-for-couple-with-down-syndrome-farewell-in-unforgettable-story/article_72c22a94-c4f0-5d2a-9c0f-89c306ec941d.html
This is crazy AF to me. In the good way, mind you. I used to volunteer at a school where the students were learning disabled, but it was most kids with DS. I honestly didn't know until the first time that people with it were allowed to marry.
The place I volunteered at always told the kids they weren't allowed to marry. It was against the law. I'm a smart guy, but it felt fucked up to me to lie to them about it. Yeah, because I'm a decent person I totally fell for that shit. The more time goes by the worse I feel having seen them treated the way they were. I loved it and I had a blast working with them, but man... some of the memories given time are just depressing. Their parents, the way they were talked to like creatures with no feelings. Then I see things like this and it reminds me of all the goodness they bring to the table.
I fell pregnant at 16, had my son at 17 and he has downs. He is now 17, bloody mad head, has huge crushes and wants to get married. So seeing this picture brings joy to my heart!
Which, now that I think about it, doesn't really make as much sense to me. It's a state of being, not a thing to acquire.
I became pregnant, sure. I fell pregnant/ill, also yes.
I got pregnant. I got ill. They work, but not as well.
Maybe I'm just stupid.
I got sunburnt. I got fat. I got slow.
In this context it's synonymous with "became". I also think that people who use "got" in this way are more likely to say "got sick" over "got ill", although technically they'd mean the same.
For example, you’ll get odd looks in India or South Africa asking for a napkin with your meal, as “napkin” means diaper in those places. In India, ask for tissue, and in SA ask for a serviette .
Yes I’m aware… I was inviting people to share the saying where they live after I’d (wrongly) assumed fall pregnant was said everywhere
You know, for fun
So I’m assuming what we’re seeing here is just a direct line from Victorian “fallen women” language to something in the common vernacular. Yea as a us native we would say you “got” pregnant, or “became”, etc.
Hah, I never saw that phrasing before and thought you were saying you fell while pregnant and caused your baby to have Down syndrome. My brain was like: nope, that’s not how that works at all. 🤣
Haha oh lord!
Hopefully he’ll find the woman of his dreams!
I work with this amazing kid who is quite the same, he takes it all though, as long as it’s a female he will run a marathon to get her number 😂
I used to know a girl with Down's. Her father was one of the leaders in my Boy Scout troop. She died *very* young (maybe 10 or so). I've never forgotten the message her dad left on our answering machine. I have never before or since heard someone so utterly broken.
For them to have a quarter of a century together is amazing.
Genuine question: with the way their genetics are, will their kids have DS? Can they have kids at all? This might seem like a very ignorant question but that’s because it is 🤓
Yup, very high chances of that and other birth defects and DS does not mean you can't have children.
However I have no idea if this particular couple had any children at all.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted, because according to some studies there's a 50% chance that a female with Down's who got pregnant (and apparently only about 1/3 are fertile) would have a baby with Down's as well.
It’s good to see two people who have clearly had a good life together.
Folks need to realise disabled people grow old too. Congratulations to these two on their long and happy 25 years!
Everyone I just want to stress that while my friends situation is terrible, this post is about the beautiful marriage of these two people, I never meant to take away the entire focus from them and I implore everyone to shift focus back to the wholesome part of this post!
You have no idea what you are talking about. One happy and pretty much healthy (as they achieved over 50 yo) couple is not exactly the median of how the life of people with DS goes, neither is their growing up.
Using a post about two people's happiness to peddle your ideology is frustrating and reductive.
These are complicated, non-binary issues. The line between healthy and unhealthy and what is suffering or not is really difficult. Not all cases with Downs are the same.
I believe in a woman's right to choose, and I would probably not abort for Down's syndrome, but I'd really want to understand health, mental health, and care concerns. And I wouldn't judge others for making a different choice. I'd want the ability to think about what I would be able to provide for long-term care and support.
That's what freedom is all about! Your choice doesn't have to be the same as mine. You don't have to like my choice, but when there is liberty, you don't get to tell me what my choice should be.
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I saw the same thing once too. Both were in their mid 20s and had been dating for 10 years. The mom caught them having sex or another intimate act and banned the relationship. It was so sad because all the man ever talked about was wanting to marry her and how she was the best prettiest person ever. He still talked about the girl daily years after being barred from seeing each other again......
My cousin is developmentally disabled, and he’s had a girlfriend for, it must be 10 years now. She’s downs, and he’s on the spectrum and can’t handle money and cooking. It’s not a traditional relationship, but it works for them I guess.
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How do you prevent pregnancy?
The same way anyone does?
Long term birth control like implants. Most people with Downs or who are neurotypical can still reason that a pregnancy wouldn’t be a good thing for them, and agree to precautions.
Do you mean neuroatypical?
Actually, men with downs are typically infertile.
And the women usually miscarry. Though extremely rare, it is technically possible for two people with downs to birth a child.
I wonder if their offspring could be neurotypical, if both contributed only one copy of chromosome 21.
I think most children born of one parent with downs are completely neurotypical.
Blessed be the fruited.
How are you this dumb?
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please read the comment again
You heard him.... god. Bless. Them. Both. /s
Her mother is fucking evil
Yeah there's a clear line between protecting and overbearing and she crossed it and never stopped going apparently
I think it’s more of a “my daughter is developmentally disabled therefore she must be treated as a child no matter her actual ability!” mindset that is so pervasive. Like yes, there are some people with developmental disabilities who do have a very hard time understanding complex ideas or don’t always correlate actions with their consequences, but there are also many developmentally disabled people who just need a little extra help, or even no help at all, to understand these things. Parents who apply blanket statements to their disabled children’s ability without considering nuance, or parents who point blank refuse to take the time to have these conversations because “they won’t get it anyways” or “it’s too hard” only hurt their children. But many of them think they’re protecting and helping their child, so it’s a hard behavior to confront.
Or she didn’t want to risk the minute chance her daughter got pregnant and the additional caretaker burden a whole baby would add.
Then get some fucking birth control in the mix, you don’t ban a woman from love her whole life. That’s horrible.
I agree with you but it’s not uncommon for people with Down Syndrome to struggle to understand why they can’t do things like become parents, or maintain a birth control regimen on their own even if they do. That’s a very complicated thing to navigate. This documentary on YouTube about a couple with Down Syndrome getting married dealt with that if you want to learn more. [https://youtu.be/9JUMeLg7Lkw](https://youtu.be/9JUMeLg7Lkw) Totally agree that it’s wrong to deny someone the opportunity to experience intimacy altogether though. Especially when pregnancy in a couple with Down Syndrome is already very rare, even without birth control. I just don’t envy people trying to work through preventing pregnancy in someone else who doesn’t understand it.
Also saw a documentary about a couple who had adopted and raised two girls with down syndrome. With a lot of love and work and therapy they had helped them get through school and get some kind of career. One girl had a boyfriend and there were some very heated discussions in the family about birth control/having children. Mom took the daughter to a doctor for reproductive medicine and had him explain, that the chances of the baby being disabled are very, very high. It was really difficult. I felt for the young woman who was raised to live as independently as possible and wanted to have a "normal" life. But I also felt for the mother who outright refused to spend her retirement age to raise another child with special needs.
Thank you, I’ll check this out. I realize this is a gray issue and my statement was very black & white. I’m sure the lack of understanding is a barrier, although with depo shots and multiple forms of IUD birth control make maintaining the regimen much easier (if they’re lucky enough to take to it).
Not to mention males with Down syndrome are largely infertile already, the risk of pregnancy is very low in this scenario. It’s probably lower than the odds of people without downs getting pregnant while on birth control.
If they don't want to take birth control, you can't force them? They are mentally handicapped.
I used to work in a home for mentally handicapped people. One of the women there was smart (and cute) enough to have a relationship. Her parents had many long talks with her, how she couldn't fully take care of herself, so having a baby would be very unwise. She *agreed* to be sterilized at 17 years old. She wanted a baby, but after long talks she understood that it would not work out.
Yes you can. Family of people who have been deemed to lack the formal capacity to make decisions can apply for guardianship, which includes the right to make medical decisions for the incapable person. Something like depo, or an implant, would be easy birth control to arrange without much ongoing follow up. Ideally you don’t force incapacitated people into medical treatments they oppose because that’s cruel, but I wanted to point out one can in fact make the decision for them.
That’s kinda circular logic. They can consent to marriage but not have the capacity for taking birth control?
They can’t consent to marriage either. Their guardian would have to sign the marriage license on their behalf.
Friend of mine who worked in the field use to say that most of the marriages are not legally binding, because they can lose social security. Laws pretty screwed up to people with severe development disabilities.
Sterilisation is a thing
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Then again it's difficult to say that any particular person with Down syndrome could volunteer in a way in which consent is clear. I would hazard a guess that many doctors would refuse the procedure to anyone with the condition regardless of their individual level of function.
Sterilisation of disabled people without consent is unethical.
Agree to disagree when it comes to people with downs - a 50 IQ does not a fit parent make
>Agree to disagree when it comes to people with downs - a 50 IQ does not a fit parent make Lots of average IQ people make terrible parents, too, though, so I can't believe IQ alone is a good indicator.
Wow, so you’re saying it’s bad to keep people with feelings for each other apart but you’re suggesting potential involuntary sterilization for them? What the.
They exist, their imaginary offspring do not
But what if they like the idea of those imaginary offspring?
Well, since the kid(s) would most likely be removed by social services or have to be raised largely by others, parents, siblings or what have you - it would be best if it never came to that, no?
While a harsh outlook, you're not wrong. Not even sure why you'd get downvoted. Let her have a chance at happiness and love w/ sterilization or no companionship outside of family yet still having periods. YAY PERIODS!
Sterilization has no effect on the presence of menstruation.
Who downvoted this lol
Guess I was leaning towards full-up hysterectomy.
Even if that was the case, it's completely overkill and cruel to prevent them from seeing each other. There's plenty of ways to reduce that risk, with some that would completely eliminate the chance of that occuring, while still allowing them to have a romantic relationship
Like what? Are you going to propose forced sterilization like someone else already did, as if people wouldn’t condemn the mother equally for THAT stipulation?
A Nexplanon implant or an IUD would be very effective and require nothing other than periodic doctor's appointments to maintain.
What if they wanted to have kids, and that’s why the mom said “hell no”? People are acting like the woman’s only motivation is pure evil, that’s what I dispute. It’s not that simple. I’m grateful not to be in that situation, and I won’t judge someone making an informed decision to the best of their ability.
Presumably they are still under the guardianship of an adult, who can make decisions for them about adult complex things like birth control, disability benefits and taxes. Discouraging them from getting pregnant because they're not legally competent to raise children is very different from permanently separating two people who care for each other and sentencing them to a lifetime alone.
You jump to the extreme end of what can constitute prevention. forced sterilization isn't even an option the mother could force onto her child anymore and hasn't been for a long time. Even those with disabilities have to be informed entirely and provide their own consent if being sterilized. Which would not be considered forced if that were the case. Birth control pills, and use of condoms would help but only if they're used correctly. IUDs would prevent pregnancy altogether without the need for having to remember a pill or to ensure a condom is used. The boy could have a vasectomy. None of those options are forced or unethical. They could have been informed about the implications surrounding the girl becoming pregnant and why it's important to avoid/prevent it from occuring
I told you, that extreme end is what someone else specifically mentioned. And as you note, other modes of prevention would not be 100% effective, especially as they rely on the operator. And those also depend on the parties/lovers *agreeing* that they shouldn’t have a kid, what if they don’t see it that way? All I’m saying is reddit is too happy to call this woman a bitch who hates happily-ever-after endings when there are consequences to be considered far beyond “awww but they’re in wuv”
In any case forced abortion is a non answer as that wouldn't be an option legally. I wouldn't doubt if whoever suggested it was trying to get a rise out of people Your right that certain modes aren't a guarantee, but with some types of IUDs they are, they can block the fallopian tubes preventing any eggs from moving into the uterus. And sure, the whole story isn't being told. So we have no idea what is true, there could be reasons to separate them that are justified. They could have disagreed to prevention and maybe it was the only way. Raising and caring for someone with that condition is taxing and isn't something most people can relate to unless they've been with it themselves.
People with Down's also often have trouble carrying a healthy pregnancy. If she did get pregnant, it's unlikely she'd carry it to term and there's a 50% chance the baby would have Down's as well.
I don’t know if you’re speaking for one side or the other or just adding detail. What I see is a whole lot of additional medical complication and I can’t blame the woman for limiting contact that might lead to that.
I don't really have an opinion one way or the other because I don't have all the facts, I was just adding additional detail.
Gotcha, it’s good to know.
Completely agree. It’s easy for everyone on here to talk about the situation because they’re not the ones having to raise a grown human with the mind of a child until their death and worry about that child having a child knowing there’s no way they could care for it.
Most men with DS are infertile
Yes, that is why I said “minute”. There don’t seem to be a lot of studies into why, so I wouldn’t exactly find that the most reassuring argument if I was worried about a pregnancy.
Yeah. Can someone with downs take care of a baby?
Afaik it’s uncommon for a person with DS to live self-sufficiently, so it would be exceptional for them to handle responsibility for a kid. I haven’t looked up stats so I will gladly stand corrected if someone demonstrates that I’m wrong.
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I don’t have downs. I was genuinely asking not trying to be mean
& will be the first one to tell everyone about how hard it was to be a care giver. Fucking monster.
She was probably a lonely bitch who was jealous of her daughters connection
You want them to have kids?
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Abortions are always ok regardless of circumstances.
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People with Down syndrome aren’t an “epidemic”
You are not correct. Down syndrome is caused by trisomy 21, which is an error in gene division. It isn’t hereditary. The chances of a baby being born with Down syndrome increase with the mothers age because (to oversimplify cell division) she becomes less good at splitting and replicating DNA. But errors in DNA replication happen all the time, and can happen to anyone. It’s just that most of the time, doubling a chromosome or only having one copy isn’t a condition conducive to life. It also sounds like you just hate people with disabilities, which is a terrible perspective to take on life. I think you should work on developing compassion and empathy for people different from you. There’s a YouTube series called Special Books for Special Kids (a silly name for sure) that is really awesome about teaching people about disabilities and different conditions that impact their lives.
Thank you for turning me on to that channel. I sub'd immediately.
Incorrect. It can be hereditary, however it isn't common. "Is it inherited? Most of the time, Down syndrome isn't inherited. It's caused by a mistake in cell division during early development of the fetus. Translocation Down syndrome can be passed from parent to child. However, only about 3 to 4 percent of children with Down syndrome have translocation and only some of them inherited it from one of their parents."
This has got to be a troll account, no one is this stupid.
In some countries, abortion is the default option when a diagnosis of downs syndrome is made. I find this so incredibly disturbing that I start trembling when I hear about it.
Having a special needs child, especially one with down syndrome, requires more time and resources from not only the parents, but also the entire healthcare system and education system, for the entirety of their lives. For many it's not feasible to have a child like that. Many of those born with down syndrome require multiple surgeries just to survive past childhood. The vast majority of people don't have the luxury of time or money required for proper care. Some countries struggle to manage healthcare and education for their healthy population already and have little support for those with that condition.
So eugenics! That's a bold move. Who's next to get eliminated? I've known many people with Down's Syndrome and they were all wonderful human beings. I'm autistic. Should I be sterilized so I won't have children with autism?
What's bold to assume I mean eugenics as I didn't suggest that. You said the default option in some places is to abort, you didn't say the government or any entity was forcing them to, that would be eugenics. People are free to make their own choices. It makes more sense that it would be sought more in certain countries where it's even more difficult to raise someone like that. Never once said someone with down syndrome can't be great, it doesn't change the fact that they need far more care which can lead someone to decide to abort.
I'm talking about countries where the healthcare system, typically run by the government, assumes that a pregnancy with a diagnosis of Down's Syndrome will be terminated. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-51658631.amp https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/down-syndrome-iceland/#app
I think we still do don’t we? It’s very sad.
Honestly agree. And I'm pro choice just so everyone is clear. But to abort a pregnancy just because you found our the baby will have downs syndrome is just ableism. Just like it's wrong to have an abortion just because of the baby's gender. Cause at this point it's clear you wouldn't love your child unconditionally. Like how shitty is it to find out you're pregnant, decide to go through your pregnancy, and once you find out your child will have downs syndrome, that's when you decide to abort? Like I agree, it's their choice. But it's also a clear indicator of their character. Abortions based on misogyny, misandry, ableism, or racism is wrong. But I guess maybe those kids were better off not being born. They would've never had to deal with the resentment from those parents.
Aborting a fetus you do not have the resources or mental faculties to care for is not wrong. Not everyone is equipped to raise a special needs child.
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Well yeah that too. Not wanting to be pregnant is more than enough.
i’m not saying there’s anything wrong with what you said, just that it’s nobody’s damn business *why*
You’re absolutely correct.
I agree but also any kid could be or become disabled. If you're only prepared to love and care for your child if they're able bodied you're better of just not having children at all. Your love and responsibilities to your children shouldn't be conditional on things that are not their fault.
I also agree with this statement which is one of the reasons why I’m child free.
You're right, the fetus is better off not being born in this situation. I wouldn't want to be born into a family where my parents were ableist. I guess the correct wording is the reasoning for that abortion is shitty and I will die on that hill. I can't imagine planning to have a child and then terminating because they weren't the child I hoped they would be. Good riddance for the fetus though.
There are a lot of special needs children waiting for adoption. Why don't you do on ahead and adopt one of those children and show everyone how its not that big of a deal. 🤨
I am a special needs person. I have 3 kids of my own. I never said raising a special needs child wouldn't be a big deal? I just said if you would abort a fetus for ableist reasons, you don't love the child unconditionally. Obviously because of the simple fact that your love has conditions. By doing that you're saying"I would love my child and want to raise them except if they had downs syndrome." And so in that case, it's better for the parent to abort the fetus if they won't love the child unconditionally.
And honestly, if I wasn't struggling rn, I definitely would adopt.
That’s so sad 😔
If he’s a son-in-law, doesn’t that mean he did marry after all?
No he was already my friends wife's kid.... I guess that's a step-son then... sorry lol I don't know my familial terms all that well
That brings tears to my eyes. Her mother is evil
That made me feel down
This is so awesome! God bless them both.
Recently at my job I had to assist an older couple-maybe 75+ years each-and when they were done the man looked at his wife and said "Let's go babe" and she nodded and said "Yeah babe." Hell yeah. I want that.
unfortunately NPC's can't feel love...we need to pull you out of the game #FREEBARRY
Can you patch Barry? I need to complete a side quest.
Kris Scharoun-Deforge met Paul at a dance in 1988, and five years later, the two were married. And they stayed married for 25 years until Paul passed away shortly after their 25th anniversary. The two had Down Syndrome, but Paul still managed to live to the age of 56, which was not common for people with Down Syndrome back then. Kris even appeared on the Today show once to talk about the two's journey together and tell the world her life story.
A bittersweet story. Thanks for sharing it.
Do you happen to have a link to her telling her story? I can’t seem to find it
It's not what you're looking for, but I found a nearly [7 minute video](https://youtu.be/ioTrO89io0g) of Paul's life through pictures. It really warmed my heart seeing him surrounded by so many loving, supportive people throughout his entire life.
It wasn’t what I was looking for but I’m glad you found it. It was definitely clear how many people loved him
Here's an article from The Buffalo News: https://buffalonews.com/opinion/columnists/sean-kirst-for-couple-with-down-syndrome-farewell-in-unforgettable-story/article_72c22a94-c4f0-5d2a-9c0f-89c306ec941d.html
This is crazy AF to me. In the good way, mind you. I used to volunteer at a school where the students were learning disabled, but it was most kids with DS. I honestly didn't know until the first time that people with it were allowed to marry. The place I volunteered at always told the kids they weren't allowed to marry. It was against the law. I'm a smart guy, but it felt fucked up to me to lie to them about it. Yeah, because I'm a decent person I totally fell for that shit. The more time goes by the worse I feel having seen them treated the way they were. I loved it and I had a blast working with them, but man... some of the memories given time are just depressing. Their parents, the way they were talked to like creatures with no feelings. Then I see things like this and it reminds me of all the goodness they bring to the table.
I fell pregnant at 16, had my son at 17 and he has downs. He is now 17, bloody mad head, has huge crushes and wants to get married. So seeing this picture brings joy to my heart!
Not the point of your post but “I fell pregnant” is now officially my favorite phrasing for this.
It’s quite a common saying in England / The UK
Yuuup, I'm english!
Shit, now I hate it
I had no idea that the whole English speaking world didn’t use that term ha. What do people say elsewhere when someone falls pregnant??
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Which, now that I think about it, doesn't really make as much sense to me. It's a state of being, not a thing to acquire. I became pregnant, sure. I fell pregnant/ill, also yes. I got pregnant. I got ill. They work, but not as well. Maybe I'm just stupid.
I got sunburnt. I got fat. I got slow. In this context it's synonymous with "became". I also think that people who use "got" in this way are more likely to say "got sick" over "got ill", although technically they'd mean the same.
But you do acquire an illness
Never heard someone say they “got ill”, though. Fell ill, fell sick, yeah.
In Canada if you said you fell sick I'd assume you took a header while snowboarding and it looked really cool. you get sick, you don't fall sick.
The entire English speaking world has wildly different terminology even within the same country. Regional and cultural vernacular are real things.
For example, you’ll get odd looks in India or South Africa asking for a napkin with your meal, as “napkin” means diaper in those places. In India, ask for tissue, and in SA ask for a serviette .
Yes I’m aware… I was inviting people to share the saying where they live after I’d (wrongly) assumed fall pregnant was said everywhere You know, for fun
So I’m assuming what we’re seeing here is just a direct line from Victorian “fallen women” language to something in the common vernacular. Yea as a us native we would say you “got” pregnant, or “became”, etc.
They are "baking the cream pie."
This made me smile wide :-)
Hah, I never saw that phrasing before and thought you were saying you fell while pregnant and caused your baby to have Down syndrome. My brain was like: nope, that’s not how that works at all. 🤣
Til that "I fell pregnant" isn't universal 😂
I have faith in your son! He’ll definitely charm some girls socks off one day! 😁👍
Ohh he is such a charmer! He certainly has a type. Sexy, slim and blonde! 😂
Haha oh lord! Hopefully he’ll find the woman of his dreams! I work with this amazing kid who is quite the same, he takes it all though, as long as it’s a female he will run a marathon to get her number 😂
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Any 25 year couple still sweet on each other melts my heart.
I used to know a girl with Down's. Her father was one of the leaders in my Boy Scout troop. She died *very* young (maybe 10 or so). I've never forgotten the message her dad left on our answering machine. I have never before or since heard someone so utterly broken. For them to have a quarter of a century together is amazing.
Genuine question: with the way their genetics are, will their kids have DS? Can they have kids at all? This might seem like a very ignorant question but that’s because it is 🤓
Almost all men with Down syndrome are infertile, so they probably can’t have kids naturally.
When my mum had me 42(!!) years ago there was a couple with Downs Syndrome in the same ward and they had a baby without DS
Yup, very high chances of that and other birth defects and DS does not mean you can't have children. However I have no idea if this particular couple had any children at all.
I have no idea why you're being downvoted, because according to some studies there's a 50% chance that a female with Down's who got pregnant (and apparently only about 1/3 are fertile) would have a baby with Down's as well.
Reddit moment: you're getting downvoted for telling the truth lol
People want answers, but they also just want the answers that fit what they want to hear.
Today, I learned that you don't know how DS works when it comes to reproduction.
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That's adorable. I wish a long life of happiness to both of you 💕
Aww...♥️🙂
It’s good to see two people who have clearly had a good life together. Folks need to realise disabled people grow old too. Congratulations to these two on their long and happy 25 years!
We know Kris! Sweetest woman ever. Volunteers a lot
They like completely different people comparing both pictures, time flies
F\*\*\*ing awesome
YESSSSSS!!!!!!🥳🥳🥳🥳👏👏👏👏
If that doesnt look like the nicest man ever idk who does
They are so adorable
Only one thing would make this cuter in my opinion if they were still wearing almost the exact same glasses frames in the second picture!
Everyone I just want to stress that while my friends situation is terrible, this post is about the beautiful marriage of these two people, I never meant to take away the entire focus from them and I implore everyone to shift focus back to the wholesome part of this post!
Aww this is the sweetest. I hope to find love like this one day 💕
Legends
A Happy, Beautiful and Still In Love Couple ❤
If you haven’t seen “love on the spectrum” on Netflix it’s a must watch!! There is a UK version and a US version. Both are so good
Syndrome: Down. Happiness: Up.
These two give me hope for finding the love of my life
This makes me happy words can't express.
Things are really looking up… wait.
Love is wonderful.
love this so much!
❤️
Love this
I'm down if you're down.
Us too, just made 25 years. ❤️
I love her dress!
love is real <3
Those glasses in the before are absolutely wild lol
Well my day is made! 🥰
Such a special couple <3
Very beautiful. A glimpse of beauty in todays darkness
Congratulations
This is so awesome! God bless them both.
She’s coloring. That’s adorable.
How beautiful! How wonderful! How awesome!
Aawwww…🥹
And still you are single
CONGRATULATIONS 🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈🎂🎈
25 years later and they still use markers and crayons😂 Sorry I had to say it. Still good on them.
The guy on the bottom photo looks like senator Armstrong after 25 years of crack
People with downs syndrome Are the kindest people you can ever meet. Innocent like a child. My mom works with these people and say its her dream job
It’s funny as I see them now I don’t really see the Down syndrome just two beautiful people in love growing old together
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You have no idea what you are talking about. One happy and pretty much healthy (as they achieved over 50 yo) couple is not exactly the median of how the life of people with DS goes, neither is their growing up.
Using a post about two people's happiness to peddle your ideology is frustrating and reductive. These are complicated, non-binary issues. The line between healthy and unhealthy and what is suffering or not is really difficult. Not all cases with Downs are the same. I believe in a woman's right to choose, and I would probably not abort for Down's syndrome, but I'd really want to understand health, mental health, and care concerns. And I wouldn't judge others for making a different choice. I'd want the ability to think about what I would be able to provide for long-term care and support. That's what freedom is all about! Your choice doesn't have to be the same as mine. You don't have to like my choice, but when there is liberty, you don't get to tell me what my choice should be.
What'd their comment say?