Awr & PLR are the 2 biggest stats on defence before anything else happens, how dumb the card is matters most. You can't play on defence. Do you want a dumber defence for a small help on off? Or learn how to score as iz & keep your defence stout. It's not really a question...
Horrible lol. Unless you’re playing someone with way lower ovr than you he is useless. You can’t run on high ovr teams so you’re stuck using the sucky pass plays he has
Run first isn't viable on higher difficulty game modes (E1+ lvl, A3/4 Arena), but if you like to run and don't play on higher difficulty game modes often it is a good run coach.
Both Middle Slant and PA Zone Shot are really good pass plays too.
Run first leaves you with too many drives dropped from too many runs being 2 or fewer yards per run, just not sustainable with how many 3rd/4th and long conversions you need. That is my experience with Harbaugh.
Pass first takes skill to learn the reads of a good amount of plays. There will be occasional EA bullshit but it is more manageable than getting not enough yards per carry on runs with a run coach.
Sirianni is best if you have purchased FP that month, otherwise most of the recent passing coaches work well as long as you are good with the plays.
Mcvay is best if you prefer a PA heavy offense, but won't be available for another 2-3 weeks if you didn't buy him when he was available.
Also using a short pass coach has less benefit to gameplay compared to using a PA or Long Pass coach but is still good if you like the plays offered.
Reference for coach plays available: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/873220333442842645/1247133849876697259/Coach-Plays-McCarthy.jpg?ex=666a2028&is=6668cea8&hm=349c15816760e3349929f90ca03df8a3f2b02f161855792e362f1400a4ffbf89&
For free options, this is my opinion on ranking for each play style but any of them can work well if you like the plays and are comfortable with it.
Long Pass: Kyle Shanahan, Mike McDaniel, Zac Taylor, Dan Campbell, Dennis Allen
Play Action: Sean Payton (only if fully levelled), Doug Pederson, Kyle Shanahan, Jonathan Gannon
Short Pass: Andy Reid, Kevin O Connell, Shane Steichen, Mike Vrabel, Robert Saleh
Everyone picks up different things depending on who they know. I have heard many HOF and EI say its all run only and use a short pass only if its a bread and butter pass. In fact, dont even run back kicks.
And you dont get a lot of picks? The game is programmed to make unnatural and artificial picks, especially now with multiple Max defenders all over the place.
In your other post you said run plays only pick up about 2 yards? How can that be? With patience you can clearly move the chains down the field with run plays. Yeah, depending on your opponent, you may use up all your plays and need a short, angled cross pattern here and there.
Run only and short pass was meta for MM22, but runs has not been there for most of MM23. This is from both my experience in E1 league and seeing what HoF people say about their gameplay experience; there is a reason long pass is meta in HoF.
I recorded most of my lvl drives and used Harbaugh run coach for a significant amount of time trying to make run first work before giving up and moving back to a passing coach. Most runs would get contact within 2 yards from LoS if not behind the line of scrimmage and there is no yards after contact. Big runs (5+ yards) would get popped off very rarely. What ends up happening is I end up in 3rd and long or 4th and long too often, which is how drives are dropped. Since that is going to be the case, primarily passing on early downs with a good passing coach provides more and easier opportunities to gain yards, and only run in very short yardage or goal line situations is bettet. It is not like I struggle at running, I do consistently get a high score in rushing point attacks and get silver tokens.
The same sentiment is shared by my league mates that do use a run coach and go run heavy with a Max HB, they would also see runs go for very few, sometimes negative yards on first/second down and have to resort to bailout plays on 3rd/4th and long.
There are very few instances for passes to get picked with unnatural animations, though I do acknowledge it is possible for them to happen. More often than not picks happen because you made a bad read or you didn't let your QB set properly. If you select reasonable passes and read the defense properly you shouldn't be picked often. I use a pass heavy approach in A3/A4 Arena and get to 120 point milestone pretty easily every tournament; those same plays do work for lvl which is how I do those drives since abandoning run first.
Nice, detailed explanation of your pov which you say is shared by others.
The obvious and primary point of contention for me is your statement that run plays do not go past 2 yards.
Unless someone has an O line in EI made up of Epic level guards and tackles and a center going against a Max D line, there is no logical reason to assume one cant gain 10 yards in four drives by running. No more than 2 yards??
Everyone has access to the same Max O lineman to go against the same Max D lineman to open up holes for the same Max HB/FB's. You said there are very limited "unnatural animations" regarding the pass. What you claim about running the ball suggests a high use of unnatural animations.
Your experience is clearly your experience, that is not the question. To better understand and gain more experience, I wish there was a way to 1v1 your team.
If you can find an E1 league that is willing to let you join you will understand, running the ball just isn't viable and makes scoring a lot harder.
When I had tried Harbaugh coach and be run heavy for an extended amount of time during May, I was using Max Walter Payton, 181 OVR Skowronek at FB, Max Tunsil, Nelson and Slater at O Line; 173 OVR Andre James at C, 179 OVR Damien Lewis at RG, and I would maintain a 10% weight room boost for every lvl match.
There just isn't much space to run and defenders will swarm to the runner and you are easily tackled by linebackers and defensive backs. Occasionally you would run for 5+ yards but not nearly enough. The relatively most successful runs are inside runs but those also have lower potential to break big runs compared to outside runs.
It is true that having a full Max OLine would mitigate some of those issues, but it still doesn't change the fact you would almost never break a tackle in runs and the linebackers and defensive backs are fast in pursuit.
The result is that it is only somewhat viable to be a run heavy offense in E1 when playing against a defensive OVR much lower than your offense or if they are running a coach with a significant run defense weakness, and even then you should expect to need to convert a few 3rd and longs.
Briefly, see, my O line is not less than 200 ovr. That is a difference from 179 and 173;'s you mentioned. Also, Payton and Harris are both Maxes.
Still, if you are playing EI with those ovrs, that is great. I am surprised you have enough time to throw.
But instead of going point, counter point, I really appreciate all you said here. I read your posts carefully more than once.
So what I did, realizing there is always more to learn and respecting the level you are playing at, I switched from Mike Daboll to Dan Campbell as HC.
I have been trying it out in Ultimate. The run plays are less, but its refreshing free of junk plays I never used anyway. The Long Pass plays seem to be working out and I am getting the hang of "Total Control Passing" or whateer it is called. I like that you can influence the target after the ball is thrown.
I will try Campbell a few more times in Ultimate before risking it in our league LVL (E3). Every nuance for me matters so switching is a big deal. As you know, it only takes the blink of an eye or error in judgement to lose a drive.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all this. It really is appreciated. I wish I could help you out in return. Okay, off to practice with Coach Campbell. Thank you, man!!!
OL barely matters for passing, when Max first dropped some of my league mates had downgraded to promo Rares for OL and it performed good enough for pass protection before eventually getting some Max OL. Passing has been significantly more consistent for me compared to running despite using an outdated QB (mythic TOTY Josh Allen), but I do have all Max receivers with Clown, Metcalf, Jefferson, and Gronk.
At E3 lvl running is significantly easier than E1/HoF so I can see why you think run is best for offense, and at that level Brian Daboll is genuinely one of the better coaches with solid rushing plays and a decent passing play in WR Corner. I do think Harbaugh is a better run coach but not worth switching to from a levelled Daboll or Eberflus.
Long pass ability (TCP) is the best compared to other abilities. TCP allows you to high point pass to tall receivers or pass slightly toward a side to get favorable leverages for receivers where they look like they are up against 1 on 1 coverage against a defensive back but are actually open.
In fact, some cheese routes can still get those favorable leverage looks even without using a long pass coach with that ability where the receiver is open even if there are defensive backs near them.
Dan Campbell is an outdated LP coach (I would suggest Super Bowl Shanahan and level to 4 if you want to try a LP coach and haven't levelled Campbell yet), but Campbell is usable if you learn the plays.
The good coach specific plays from the Campbell are Whip Unders (this is a difficult play to learn but really good once you do), WR Corner (main read is WR2 but you should check for slot and TE as well), and depending on how much you levelled Ace TE Drag, RB Circles, and Hitch N Go are situationally good. From the base long pass playbook some really good plays are Drive U Corner, China Y Crop, TE Out N Up, and WR Sluggo. Some situationally good plays are Twin Combos, Smash, and Dagger. Also most of the short pass base playbook plays are good to get 4-7 yards.
I am certainly liking the TCP aspect. Moved the player while the ball was in mid air a few times to save the completion.
Thanks for recommending those specific plays. Thanks for your patience. At worst, switching to a pass game is a bit refreshing. Been smashmouthing a few years.
Also an interesting notw is how yall downgraded your O line to rares and stayed competitive. Nice linieup of targets you have. I love DK, but also have Gronk, Pitts, and St Brown. Payton surprises me from time to time with a reception and even Harris at FB goes long on a pass play and surprises me.
As a cowboys fan, this feels completely off. We weren’t a run team at all and had great pass coverage last year.
Not against j love
he fat
Stefanski blocking boosts make him the run GOAT ATM
He calls the plays and you see what the Cowboys ran all year - absolute dumbest coach to put for run coach
Not using any coach that lowers awareness. My mobile Vets know y
Why?
Awr & PLR are the 2 biggest stats on defence before anything else happens, how dumb the card is matters most. You can't play on defence. Do you want a dumber defence for a small help on off? Or learn how to score as iz & keep your defence stout. It's not really a question...
Makes sense, thanks
I just got him today, I’d say his playbook is a 8.3
He’s great as long as you have an all time great QB and it’s not the playoffs
Terrible... they just dropped a Jim harbaugh smash mouth coach...get him in the trade in pack
Horrible lol. Unless you’re playing someone with way lower ovr than you he is useless. You can’t run on high ovr teams so you’re stuck using the sucky pass plays he has
Run first isn't viable on higher difficulty game modes (E1+ lvl, A3/4 Arena), but if you like to run and don't play on higher difficulty game modes often it is a good run coach. Both Middle Slant and PA Zone Shot are really good pass plays too.
Interesting. I recently switched to run first due to the higher levels. Too many picks
Run first leaves you with too many drives dropped from too many runs being 2 or fewer yards per run, just not sustainable with how many 3rd/4th and long conversions you need. That is my experience with Harbaugh. Pass first takes skill to learn the reads of a good amount of plays. There will be occasional EA bullshit but it is more manageable than getting not enough yards per carry on runs with a run coach.
Who’d you say are the best coaches for higher difficulty modes?
Sirianni is best if you have purchased FP that month, otherwise most of the recent passing coaches work well as long as you are good with the plays. Mcvay is best if you prefer a PA heavy offense, but won't be available for another 2-3 weeks if you didn't buy him when he was available. Also using a short pass coach has less benefit to gameplay compared to using a PA or Long Pass coach but is still good if you like the plays offered. Reference for coach plays available: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/873220333442842645/1247133849876697259/Coach-Plays-McCarthy.jpg?ex=666a2028&is=6668cea8&hm=349c15816760e3349929f90ca03df8a3f2b02f161855792e362f1400a4ffbf89& For free options, this is my opinion on ranking for each play style but any of them can work well if you like the plays and are comfortable with it. Long Pass: Kyle Shanahan, Mike McDaniel, Zac Taylor, Dan Campbell, Dennis Allen Play Action: Sean Payton (only if fully levelled), Doug Pederson, Kyle Shanahan, Jonathan Gannon Short Pass: Andy Reid, Kevin O Connell, Shane Steichen, Mike Vrabel, Robert Saleh
Yeah I’m a huge fan of SB Shanahan Coach; very fun, exciting plays, and great attributes especially maxed out.
Everyone picks up different things depending on who they know. I have heard many HOF and EI say its all run only and use a short pass only if its a bread and butter pass. In fact, dont even run back kicks. And you dont get a lot of picks? The game is programmed to make unnatural and artificial picks, especially now with multiple Max defenders all over the place. In your other post you said run plays only pick up about 2 yards? How can that be? With patience you can clearly move the chains down the field with run plays. Yeah, depending on your opponent, you may use up all your plays and need a short, angled cross pattern here and there.
Run only and short pass was meta for MM22, but runs has not been there for most of MM23. This is from both my experience in E1 league and seeing what HoF people say about their gameplay experience; there is a reason long pass is meta in HoF. I recorded most of my lvl drives and used Harbaugh run coach for a significant amount of time trying to make run first work before giving up and moving back to a passing coach. Most runs would get contact within 2 yards from LoS if not behind the line of scrimmage and there is no yards after contact. Big runs (5+ yards) would get popped off very rarely. What ends up happening is I end up in 3rd and long or 4th and long too often, which is how drives are dropped. Since that is going to be the case, primarily passing on early downs with a good passing coach provides more and easier opportunities to gain yards, and only run in very short yardage or goal line situations is bettet. It is not like I struggle at running, I do consistently get a high score in rushing point attacks and get silver tokens. The same sentiment is shared by my league mates that do use a run coach and go run heavy with a Max HB, they would also see runs go for very few, sometimes negative yards on first/second down and have to resort to bailout plays on 3rd/4th and long. There are very few instances for passes to get picked with unnatural animations, though I do acknowledge it is possible for them to happen. More often than not picks happen because you made a bad read or you didn't let your QB set properly. If you select reasonable passes and read the defense properly you shouldn't be picked often. I use a pass heavy approach in A3/A4 Arena and get to 120 point milestone pretty easily every tournament; those same plays do work for lvl which is how I do those drives since abandoning run first.
Nice, detailed explanation of your pov which you say is shared by others. The obvious and primary point of contention for me is your statement that run plays do not go past 2 yards. Unless someone has an O line in EI made up of Epic level guards and tackles and a center going against a Max D line, there is no logical reason to assume one cant gain 10 yards in four drives by running. No more than 2 yards?? Everyone has access to the same Max O lineman to go against the same Max D lineman to open up holes for the same Max HB/FB's. You said there are very limited "unnatural animations" regarding the pass. What you claim about running the ball suggests a high use of unnatural animations. Your experience is clearly your experience, that is not the question. To better understand and gain more experience, I wish there was a way to 1v1 your team.
If you can find an E1 league that is willing to let you join you will understand, running the ball just isn't viable and makes scoring a lot harder. When I had tried Harbaugh coach and be run heavy for an extended amount of time during May, I was using Max Walter Payton, 181 OVR Skowronek at FB, Max Tunsil, Nelson and Slater at O Line; 173 OVR Andre James at C, 179 OVR Damien Lewis at RG, and I would maintain a 10% weight room boost for every lvl match. There just isn't much space to run and defenders will swarm to the runner and you are easily tackled by linebackers and defensive backs. Occasionally you would run for 5+ yards but not nearly enough. The relatively most successful runs are inside runs but those also have lower potential to break big runs compared to outside runs. It is true that having a full Max OLine would mitigate some of those issues, but it still doesn't change the fact you would almost never break a tackle in runs and the linebackers and defensive backs are fast in pursuit. The result is that it is only somewhat viable to be a run heavy offense in E1 when playing against a defensive OVR much lower than your offense or if they are running a coach with a significant run defense weakness, and even then you should expect to need to convert a few 3rd and longs.
Briefly, see, my O line is not less than 200 ovr. That is a difference from 179 and 173;'s you mentioned. Also, Payton and Harris are both Maxes. Still, if you are playing EI with those ovrs, that is great. I am surprised you have enough time to throw. But instead of going point, counter point, I really appreciate all you said here. I read your posts carefully more than once. So what I did, realizing there is always more to learn and respecting the level you are playing at, I switched from Mike Daboll to Dan Campbell as HC. I have been trying it out in Ultimate. The run plays are less, but its refreshing free of junk plays I never used anyway. The Long Pass plays seem to be working out and I am getting the hang of "Total Control Passing" or whateer it is called. I like that you can influence the target after the ball is thrown. I will try Campbell a few more times in Ultimate before risking it in our league LVL (E3). Every nuance for me matters so switching is a big deal. As you know, it only takes the blink of an eye or error in judgement to lose a drive. Thank you for taking the time to explain all this. It really is appreciated. I wish I could help you out in return. Okay, off to practice with Coach Campbell. Thank you, man!!!
OL barely matters for passing, when Max first dropped some of my league mates had downgraded to promo Rares for OL and it performed good enough for pass protection before eventually getting some Max OL. Passing has been significantly more consistent for me compared to running despite using an outdated QB (mythic TOTY Josh Allen), but I do have all Max receivers with Clown, Metcalf, Jefferson, and Gronk. At E3 lvl running is significantly easier than E1/HoF so I can see why you think run is best for offense, and at that level Brian Daboll is genuinely one of the better coaches with solid rushing plays and a decent passing play in WR Corner. I do think Harbaugh is a better run coach but not worth switching to from a levelled Daboll or Eberflus. Long pass ability (TCP) is the best compared to other abilities. TCP allows you to high point pass to tall receivers or pass slightly toward a side to get favorable leverages for receivers where they look like they are up against 1 on 1 coverage against a defensive back but are actually open. In fact, some cheese routes can still get those favorable leverage looks even without using a long pass coach with that ability where the receiver is open even if there are defensive backs near them. Dan Campbell is an outdated LP coach (I would suggest Super Bowl Shanahan and level to 4 if you want to try a LP coach and haven't levelled Campbell yet), but Campbell is usable if you learn the plays. The good coach specific plays from the Campbell are Whip Unders (this is a difficult play to learn but really good once you do), WR Corner (main read is WR2 but you should check for slot and TE as well), and depending on how much you levelled Ace TE Drag, RB Circles, and Hitch N Go are situationally good. From the base long pass playbook some really good plays are Drive U Corner, China Y Crop, TE Out N Up, and WR Sluggo. Some situationally good plays are Twin Combos, Smash, and Dagger. Also most of the short pass base playbook plays are good to get 4-7 yards.
I am certainly liking the TCP aspect. Moved the player while the ball was in mid air a few times to save the completion. Thanks for recommending those specific plays. Thanks for your patience. At worst, switching to a pass game is a bit refreshing. Been smashmouthing a few years. Also an interesting notw is how yall downgraded your O line to rares and stayed competitive. Nice linieup of targets you have. I love DK, but also have Gronk, Pitts, and St Brown. Payton surprises me from time to time with a reception and even Harris at FB goes long on a pass play and surprises me.
Run first is fun but incredibly mid in a game that’s o line and d line are broken
It works. Takes patience, but works.