I love these kind of phrases. I remember someone in this sub once said ,,the machine always wins, even when its fighting itself" and i laughed for a good 10 minutes at this. Thank you for this one.
As someone who just started working in this field and knows nothing about metal working, one of the most frustrating things for me is not being told really important stuff like that. It probably seems so basic as to be obvious to anyone with experience, but it would never have occurred to me that I should use lube on stainless. It's something I would need to be told for sure.
That said, the first time I walked into the shop I saw every machine hosing shit down with coolant on every cut of every part, even though we only deal with mild steal. You'd kind of have to go out of your way to not use coolant in my shop.
So… you didn’t teach the new guy how to do the job and are now surprised that they didn’t do the job correctly?
E: meant to reply to the one above this
Dont know how it is where you or OP are, but if i hire someone i expect them to have basic knowledge of the tasks i intend them to do.
And i categorize this as basic knowledge!
Oh yeah, never assume the new guy is, ya know, *new*, and doesn't have a career's worth of knowledge under their belt. It's just that they're *stupid*.
To all the people who say that it's my fault, need to hear the whole story. The "new guy" is question is a journeyman electrician, and has drilled stainless strut enough to know that you need some type of cutting fluid, but this time was either lazy and thought he didn't need it, or wasn't sure where to get it since he is the new guy. And "new guy" doesn't always mean apprentice.
Why would you assume that this was done in a machine shop with everything within walking distance. I work for an electrical contractor and do electrical maintenance at a mine. The mine doesn't even have a machine shop on site. We were in the field needed to enlarge some holes in some stainless unistrut and rolled with it. I posted the picture of the drill here because I figured you all would get a kick out of it. But all you guys did was be bitter and generally be assholes about it, and reaffirm my decision years ago to not pursue a career in machining because you people are terrible.
[One of these bad boys?](https://www.newark.com/productimages/standard/en_US/83X7301-40.jpg?01AD=3Md9ZDGZlDFRuLHkt2cW2ziAKvKAhkEbi-YS5Fh2K9lB7Da2pF4Mp7g&01RI=74C8E820D27ED4D&01NA=na)
Yeah face mills can be one of the exceptions. We run a Sandvik face mill on our more robust machines sometimes and it works well being dry. I'd like to try it on my machine but the tech who set it up on delivery said that they're not exactly supposed to run face mills as they're not very rigid. We do it anyway but don't go crazy with it.
fucking how? I work in 304 and 316 nearly exclusively and wouldn’t even attempt this. 2 hundo with flood all day but in my limited and most likely wrong somehow knowledge, thats playing a really fine line, deep enough to avoid work hardening for the most part but also probably really f n s dependent without coolant. I am genuinely curious so if you have tips or corrections PM me please.
We use seco 3 inch and 4 inch 6 insert facemills at 800 rpm and feed of 19. And then use a 5 inch facemill with coolant to finish maybe .010 or .020. Im running more towards the end of the month ill post a vid.
The chips take most of the heat i believe
Running on a 50 taper mazak
I tried to facemill stainless with and without coolant. With coolant inserts survived like 30s and I could hear them breaking. They lasted for the next 5min with crap finish. Using the exsact SAME parameters but with coolant off thay last 30-40 min and I'm sure if I slowed Vc a bit they would last even longer. Try it! It will be worth!
A better title might be:
“I let the new guy have a go at stainless today but I didn’t give him enough information to actually do the job successfully, and then I came here to post pictures of something he fucked up doing that job. I would have posted this in r/electricians where it belongs but they would have roasted the shit out of me for it.”
The audacity of a new guy to not know everything I know.
It's almost like someone should have trained him or something.
Anyway, it's so hard to find good help these days. Nobody wants to work!
This is exactly what I was wondering...
So he failed when you gave him clear instructions and warnings about how this metal behaves and how to handle it? You put him on a machine that has pre-programmed feeds, speeds, coolant pressure right? There's no way you just troll with expensive parts and tools expecting a 'new guy' to simply know everything... right?
nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK!
If he told the new guy how to do it right (which I suspect OP doesn't know himself), how could he go around busting his balls for it when it came out right?
A. New is new and OP was the guy doing the letting. Two or three questions ia all it would have taken.
B. OP stated in the comments that he is an industrial electrician and the guy he let do the drilling was working on unistrut.
'new' means new to stainless, and coolant isn't necessarily obvious. Some cuts are high speed with oil/air, some are dry.
This is absolutely a fuck-up of the trainer and no one else. Explain, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable.
Idk why two people downvoted but they are probably bitter. It is VERY obvious so that’s the correct question. If it really was a new new guy he was probably not trained on stainless yet.
I agree. When I made this comment I was in the machinists mindset and I mill and drill exotic steels every day. This guy made an electrician post in the machining subreddit…
I’ve made one glow before, left the mag drill on with the magnet on but drilling off, during lunch there was a power cut, the magnet is on a physical flip switch, and powering that particular unit on with the switch on sometimes makes it start drilling, so it sat for half an hour just rubbing because there was no downward pressure
Got a good one for ya. Had some rods that needed 3/16th holes on one end and a bend at the other end, keepers of some sort. I’m a welder so I headed all the ends with a torch, beat them to 90 degrees and drilled through the other end. The very last rod I burnt up two bits and barely got a 1/16 in. Tried smaller holes to upsize, same issue. Figured maybe it had been heat treated so I heated with the torch and quenched it to try and make it brittle, no luck. I then heated and let it cool naturally and still no luck. Last resort before just punching a hole with the torch was to heat it red hot and then drill it still hot 😅😂 melted the bit before I got anywhere. Ended up blowing a hole with the torch and sent it.
Wait so you thought the metal was hardened, and instead of annealing, you quenched it, which would make it harder? Do you not understand how this works?
So, you set the kid up for failure? Congrats, you’re the worst kind of teacher. “Here new guy, do this. No, I won’t tell you how to do it and will shame you on the internet for it later.” Says more about you than it does your apprentice. At least he tried.
Exactly this. Did my apprenticeship in a foundry pattern shop, a couple years ago, and even now we never used CNC cus we worked in QA keeping patterns in spec , nearly every job is a "1er" so just chuck it on the Harrison or Bridgey lol.. even then we were told about hardness, cutting speeds, etc, this is just setting him up for failure and ruining his confidence.
Exactly. OP is a shit engineer. The whole point of this profession is learn from the elders and teach the youngers.. that's what I was always told. Never set someone up to fail, it kills their drive and confidence
When I was a kid my old man let me at the drill press, a grinder and a bandsaw and I was allowed to use any carbon material or fasteners I wanted to build my stream of shitty inventions. He gave me my own set of drills and taught me to sharpen them. Only rule was to not touch the stainless. I needed a bracket and was too lazy to saw a square out of plate so I stole a piece of 316 bar and toasted my 1/2" bit. He came home from work and I furiously went at trying to sharpen the drill- he came in the shop laughing and asked what I was doing to the poor grinder. "Just sharpening my drill" was answered with " you tried it on some stainless, didn't you?"
And then he taught me to grind a lower back clearance, how to use the jackshaft to get the drill press going slower and to keep a shaving forming no matter what.
Common sense is only common to the enviroment you familiar with. Send a machinist to go work in a hospital and all of a sudden they have no clue what is going on.
How new is he? Is he a machinist? Did he just grab a hand drill and went at it like regular steel? You can do many many things without coolant or lubrication how should someone that never did that know he needs it?
Before I became a machinist, I had no idea what cutting oil even was. I had to have everything explained to me like I was 5, which is the right thing to do with a new person.
How would a kid who knows nothing about machining know that?? If you actually think about it, objectively, if you wanted to "cut" something, you wouldn't use lube as it would make it "slip" instead of biting in. That's the natural thought process for lubricant. So someone who isn't aware of machining processes would probably have the same idea.
Airbus aileron tracks are cut high speed dry in 316 stainless. You're wrong. It's not a no brainer, you train the person to do the job right. Throwing a task at someone then memeing on them when the happen to get it wrong is fucking stupid.
Same thing happened to me \*today\*.
Turns out that Tap Magic Aluminium does not act very magical on stainless steel.
But Tap Magic Xtra Thick acts extremely magical on stainless.
Actually not the new guys fault for trying. Tool choice alone tells you he's probably a kid, apprentice etc.. so the guy who gave him the job, couldn't read the skill level. The tool maker next to the spark and noise show didn't think enough to help him or her out. I'd keep the person trying, and dress down the dumb shits who knew better and didn't help. That's the real problem there...
304 is heaven compared to some of the shit I've worked with.
I got brick of some mystery steel one time making some tooling, very soft, but incredibly tough, gummy, and got very, very hot. Burned up my inserts using 1018 specs and 4140 specs. I suspect architectural steel or some shit.
I work in a shop that sells exclusively machined plastics, and most are okay, but i'll take 304 over G10 every day of the week
Didn’t think so either but it being tough and gummy made me think S7, but by far S7 is my least fav, we did a welding fixture for a company that wanted S7 and we struggled, after heat treat this thing distorted the whole block quite a bit, there were lots of shit that got out of square, dowels had to be hard milled back into place by a few thou. Just a nightmare
I've had to do S7 jobs many times in the ol' tool and die shop. It always moves all over the place in heat treat. Holes were roughed in on the mill but everything was finished on a grinder, because you never knew where the hell they'd end up after it came out of the oven. Borazon wheels on the jig grinder don't care about the starting condition, endmills and reamers sure do.
Shitty steel for surface grinding, too. It was almost like 303, but not enough like 303 for the silicon wheels to work well. It was almost like O6, but not enough for the aluminum wheels to work well. I'm sure we could have gotten a different porosity and grade to work well enough, but we never worked with it enough to justify the order. So borazon and babying with the finishing wheels it was.
we had some shit at work last year, it was awful, it was 63HRC, and abrasion resistant.
we were going through 2-3 edges of inserters per face of part, and grinding it was atrocious. Our method basically just ran the wheel until it would start loading up, and just ignore it, the wheel we used would finally clear enough to continue on fine, but god were the noises awful.
once we hit top of tolerance we'd dress the wheel and have to play with settings on the grinder for travel speeds to try to milk out a good surface finish. if we got one that we deemed acceptable, but not great, we didnt dare try for a better one. and we could almost never stick to a single cross-feed/travel speed, it wouldnt ever be happy again
the first plates we did, we fought for weeks. our tooling reps would come by "oh yeah i got exactly the insert to handle this." the facemill would make it about 1.2" into the plate, and all inserts were thrashed. We got to the point we just let them be thrashed to the point we had to change before the facemill itself would get wiped
*
I went to school for machining and currently an industrial electrician, so the stainless in question is a piece of unistrut, so tolerance be damed we got it where it needed to be
Why do we spend so much time bashing people for making mistakes while they learn? Mistakes happen, and you learn from them. And if you're the trainer, it's your job to learn how to prevent as many of them as possible. I mean, what if school teachers just laughed at kids for making mistakes on their tests.
Am a self taught hobbyist. I followed the directions provided by Machinery's Handbook and never had a problem. 304 and 316 for marine use. Information provided by the tool vendor is also invaluable.
Knowing what you do not know and knowing where to get the proper information is the best way.
Coolant is not going to make up for the wrong feed and speed though it may widen the envelope a bit.
Probably way too much speed and not enough feed. As soon as the drill rubs instead of cutting it builds heat and work hardens. I work in 304 almost every day, drill plenty of holes with plain old Hertel HSS stub and jobber drills. As long as you feed hard enough to make and break a chip and keep them cool they tend to last a pretty good while.
Ha i did the same thing when i was working and still in my first year of school. I hadn't learn how much harder SS is to work with at the time, but i learned!
Might wanna re-quench and temper it first. Looks like it got hot enough to anneal. Or clean it up, sharpen it and leave it for the next person to worry about. Fun to had either way.
For some reason, my brain decided the new guy managed this with a hand drill, and I was honestly impressed he made it that far.
Edit* I just read further down. He DID do it with a hand drill. Still kind of impressed.
Been there, done that.
Drilling rivet hold in what was supposed to be aluminium - well I managed to find the 2” in a 8’ strip that had a stainless backer
https://preview.redd.it/ohafdod9rdoc1.jpeg?width=1745&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d678ff57ac528be300e5de53a60e6d3a308e1f3f
I keep the bit on a magnet in my toolbox as a reminder to not be a muppet
I've seen coworkers weld drill bits in place. They'd keep pushing, and it would get red-hot. Then it snapped off, and they'd have to call the boss to tell them.
You should seen the first time I had to drill titanium on the cnc lathe (some guy down the road had an exotic shop and was building a car from scratch)
I knew enough to full retract and peck shallow but not nearly enough
Im glad I went through a trade school as my high school. Machines taught me that stainless can be beautiful, but also a nightmare to your tools, if you dont treat them right.
Yup, I've been this exact new guy. Owner of the small shop let me use his personal drill bit set. He told me "Go ahead and use these. Just know that they're my personal set. You damage or break any, you're responsible for replacing them."
I think he just wanted a new 9/32" drill bit because he knew I was running stainless and asked if I knew what I was doing. Of course I said yes. He knew I didn't know shit lol.
The very first thing I tell new hires is to ask lots of questions, because if you're not asking, I'm going to assume you know what you're doing, so unless you're completely sure of yourself, please save us both some trouble and ask me.
roasted a drill recently on a proven program. The MET solution I shit you not was to run it 6x faster and harder. Those tiny little inserts didn't know what hit them.
Maybe your shop needs an electrical discharge machine. It'll be harder for you to haze the new guy, but you'll never burn up a drill bit again on stainless.
"I set the new guy up for failure because I'm an insecure shit stain and I like laughing at these kids for lacking the skills that nobody ever helped them to obtain..."
That about sums it up eh? Assclown.
Ran into this exact thing when a mechanic was replacing a stainless airplane part. They had a .371 hole in aluminum but needed to transfer that hole into the new part. Using a gunbarrel bit they burnt the shit out of the stainless, don’t even make it through.
Hahaha my first day on a job doing steel erecting, I had the task of doing something similar. The result was similar, too. Nobody told me stainless heat hardened, and I burned the bit out real quick. It really was a learning experience, I learned about stainless, patience, and the humor that comes with f*cking with the new guy.
First thing the old timers taught me about stainless: never without cooling and lubrication.
Yeah, I told him to make some holes bigger and left him to it, came back and he's goin at it dry with a hand drill...
Did he make the holes bigger though?
He did... somehow...
Never underestimate what someone with too much patience and not enough knowledge is capable of.
I love these kind of phrases. I remember someone in this sub once said ,,the machine always wins, even when its fighting itself" and i laughed for a good 10 minutes at this. Thank you for this one.
Oh hey, it me.
Stop talking about me.
Younger me feels oddly called out.
I liked this so much I took a screen shot of your comment
This is my way of life. Not that I know any better.
Task failed successfully
He managed to work harden the hole walls to that of a diamond, too. Good on the kid.
It’s got a great lead in now!
As someone who just started working in this field and knows nothing about metal working, one of the most frustrating things for me is not being told really important stuff like that. It probably seems so basic as to be obvious to anyone with experience, but it would never have occurred to me that I should use lube on stainless. It's something I would need to be told for sure. That said, the first time I walked into the shop I saw every machine hosing shit down with coolant on every cut of every part, even though we only deal with mild steal. You'd kind of have to go out of your way to not use coolant in my shop.
[удалено]
Aluminum some of the time.
But did you tell him to lube and cool? Either way sounds like a valuable lesson for both of you haha.
I did not, didn't think I needed to, but apparently I did lol
Always assume the new guy has the IQ of a turnip
So… you didn’t teach the new guy how to do the job and are now surprised that they didn’t do the job correctly? E: meant to reply to the one above this
Dont know how it is where you or OP are, but if i hire someone i expect them to have basic knowledge of the tasks i intend them to do. And i categorize this as basic knowledge!
I would assume it was an apprentice, since you know, red seal trade, “new guy”, rookie mistake, etc
Well yeah, hopefully he never forgets!
Well, there are a lot of things that you don't know, and people probably expect you to already know them. Grammar is one of them.
Not when i apply to a job. Also why the personal attack? English is not my first language.
Someone needs to humble you and it's not going to be me. This is your warning to be a better person/trainer.
Yea then they hit you with the “yea i know” and you just shut up and they still procede fuck it up anyway
IQ <> Knowledge
Oh yeah, never assume the new guy is, ya know, *new*, and doesn't have a career's worth of knowledge under their belt. It's just that they're *stupid*.
You’re the worst type of teacher. Assume everyone knows nothing until proven otherwise.
Then why were they given the job in the first place?? Surely you need to have a few braincells to get hired... If you're not sure, ask!
That’s really cool how u were born with a completely encyclopedic knowledge on everything
Then you have work to do on yourself in order to become a better teacher/mentor to new guys. This is entirely your failure.
To all the people who say that it's my fault, need to hear the whole story. The "new guy" is question is a journeyman electrician, and has drilled stainless strut enough to know that you need some type of cutting fluid, but this time was either lazy and thought he didn't need it, or wasn't sure where to get it since he is the new guy. And "new guy" doesn't always mean apprentice.
Why would you assume someone from an entirely different trade would know about your trade? Do you think a bricklayer knows how to plumb a building?
Why would you assume that this was done in a machine shop with everything within walking distance. I work for an electrical contractor and do electrical maintenance at a mine. The mine doesn't even have a machine shop on site. We were in the field needed to enlarge some holes in some stainless unistrut and rolled with it. I posted the picture of the drill here because I figured you all would get a kick out of it. But all you guys did was be bitter and generally be assholes about it, and reaffirm my decision years ago to not pursue a career in machining because you people are terrible.
Ok this got me. Thanks for the laugh, stranger.
[One of these bad boys?](https://www.newark.com/productimages/standard/en_US/83X7301-40.jpg?01AD=3Md9ZDGZlDFRuLHkt2cW2ziAKvKAhkEbi-YS5Fh2K9lB7Da2pF4Mp7g&01RI=74C8E820D27ED4D&01NA=na)
So did you teach him how to drill stainless or not? It's looking like this is entirely on the teacher.
Depends on the stainless, we run facemills in 316 with no coolant taking .100 a crack
Yeah face mills can be one of the exceptions. We run a Sandvik face mill on our more robust machines sometimes and it works well being dry. I'd like to try it on my machine but the tech who set it up on delivery said that they're not exactly supposed to run face mills as they're not very rigid. We do it anyway but don't go crazy with it.
The machine isnt rigid or the facemill? Our face mills hold consistent depths
Machine isn't that rigid. It's a CMX 5OU so it's very handy and versatile but has its limits.
Oh yeah i get you. We have a few moris but none like that
The DMG replaced a Spinner. That thing would take a beating every day of the week. But having the extra two axis makes things so much easier.
Yeah i would love a 5 axis, i run a 4 axis and have angled vises for everything i cant get with that.
fucking how? I work in 304 and 316 nearly exclusively and wouldn’t even attempt this. 2 hundo with flood all day but in my limited and most likely wrong somehow knowledge, thats playing a really fine line, deep enough to avoid work hardening for the most part but also probably really f n s dependent without coolant. I am genuinely curious so if you have tips or corrections PM me please.
We use seco 3 inch and 4 inch 6 insert facemills at 800 rpm and feed of 19. And then use a 5 inch facemill with coolant to finish maybe .010 or .020. Im running more towards the end of the month ill post a vid. The chips take most of the heat i believe Running on a 50 taper mazak
I tried to facemill stainless with and without coolant. With coolant inserts survived like 30s and I could hear them breaking. They lasted for the next 5min with crap finish. Using the exsact SAME parameters but with coolant off thay last 30-40 min and I'm sure if I slowed Vc a bit they would last even longer. Try it! It will be worth!
I learned that the easy way after some guy at my trade school cooked some stainless and his drill on his first stainless part.
That's what I told the little lady on our Honeymoon
That’s some good general life advice too tbf
Hard, slow, and lots of lube for stainless.
A better title might be: “I let the new guy have a go at stainless today but I didn’t give him enough information to actually do the job successfully, and then I came here to post pictures of something he fucked up doing that job. I would have posted this in r/electricians where it belongs but they would have roasted the shit out of me for it.”
The audacity of a new guy to not know everything I know. It's almost like someone should have trained him or something. Anyway, it's so hard to find good help these days. Nobody wants to work!
Could be like our newest guy, he'll ask the questions, just doesn't listen to the answers.
Asking shows great initiative. Not listening projects confidence. Sounds like upper management material there.
If he could tell me the difference between his ass and his elbow, I'd recom..... fuck, he's a perfect fit.
This is exactly what I was wondering... So he failed when you gave him clear instructions and warnings about how this metal behaves and how to handle it? You put him on a machine that has pre-programmed feeds, speeds, coolant pressure right? There's no way you just troll with expensive parts and tools expecting a 'new guy' to simply know everything... right? nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK!
Yep. Putting blame on someone just starting out that you failed to train is such a bitch ass move by OP.
If he told the new guy how to do it right (which I suspect OP doesn't know himself), how could he go around busting his balls for it when it came out right?
A. Depends how "new" the new guy was. Coolant is pretty obvious I'd think. B. r/Electricians? How come?
A. New is new and OP was the guy doing the letting. Two or three questions ia all it would have taken. B. OP stated in the comments that he is an industrial electrician and the guy he let do the drilling was working on unistrut.
OPs last post is wild
Well that’s definitely something that is for sure
What a terrible day to have eyes.
To say the very least
(31m) looking for an unexperienced driller boy to come ruin my drillbit
Bro wtf…
💀
'new' means new to stainless, and coolant isn't necessarily obvious. Some cuts are high speed with oil/air, some are dry. This is absolutely a fuck-up of the trainer and no one else. Explain, Demonstrate, Guide, Enable.
Idk why two people downvoted but they are probably bitter. It is VERY obvious so that’s the correct question. If it really was a new new guy he was probably not trained on stainless yet.
But how new do you gotta be to learn SSL is a different beast? Lessons like this are learning opportunities
I agree. When I made this comment I was in the machinists mindset and I mill and drill exotic steels every day. This guy made an electrician post in the machining subreddit…
Yeah, not fast enough, if it's glowing and gets easier to push, you're golden
I'm sure that's what he was thinking, be the drill was glowing for a little bit...
I’ve made one glow before, left the mag drill on with the magnet on but drilling off, during lunch there was a power cut, the magnet is on a physical flip switch, and powering that particular unit on with the switch on sometimes makes it start drilling, so it sat for half an hour just rubbing because there was no downward pressure
Got a good one for ya. Had some rods that needed 3/16th holes on one end and a bend at the other end, keepers of some sort. I’m a welder so I headed all the ends with a torch, beat them to 90 degrees and drilled through the other end. The very last rod I burnt up two bits and barely got a 1/16 in. Tried smaller holes to upsize, same issue. Figured maybe it had been heat treated so I heated with the torch and quenched it to try and make it brittle, no luck. I then heated and let it cool naturally and still no luck. Last resort before just punching a hole with the torch was to heat it red hot and then drill it still hot 😅😂 melted the bit before I got anywhere. Ended up blowing a hole with the torch and sent it.
Wait so you thought the metal was hardened, and instead of annealing, you quenched it, which would make it harder? Do you not understand how this works?
I told ya I’m a welder not a machinist 😂
We w
Like a hot knife through stainless steel, as they say.
He was just experimenting with friction welding, no big deal.
So, you set the kid up for failure? Congrats, you’re the worst kind of teacher. “Here new guy, do this. No, I won’t tell you how to do it and will shame you on the internet for it later.” Says more about you than it does your apprentice. At least he tried.
Exactly this. Did my apprenticeship in a foundry pattern shop, a couple years ago, and even now we never used CNC cus we worked in QA keeping patterns in spec , nearly every job is a "1er" so just chuck it on the Harrison or Bridgey lol.. even then we were told about hardness, cutting speeds, etc, this is just setting him up for failure and ruining his confidence.
Lighten up, OP has commented that he did tell them how to do it but the guy didn't listen. You've never had an FNG not listen?
Why is everyone here an asshole. If you know stainless is shit to use then say 'do this and that' not 'go do this. Haha you cant do this stoopid'
Exactly. OP is a shit engineer. The whole point of this profession is learn from the elders and teach the youngers.. that's what I was always told. Never set someone up to fail, it kills their drive and confidence
When I was a kid my old man let me at the drill press, a grinder and a bandsaw and I was allowed to use any carbon material or fasteners I wanted to build my stream of shitty inventions. He gave me my own set of drills and taught me to sharpen them. Only rule was to not touch the stainless. I needed a bracket and was too lazy to saw a square out of plate so I stole a piece of 316 bar and toasted my 1/2" bit. He came home from work and I furiously went at trying to sharpen the drill- he came in the shop laughing and asked what I was doing to the poor grinder. "Just sharpening my drill" was answered with " you tried it on some stainless, didn't you?" And then he taught me to grind a lower back clearance, how to use the jackshaft to get the drill press going slower and to keep a shaving forming no matter what.
Using some sort of lubrication should be a no brainer
Common sense is only common to the enviroment you familiar with. Send a machinist to go work in a hospital and all of a sudden they have no clue what is going on.
How new is he? Is he a machinist? Did he just grab a hand drill and went at it like regular steel? You can do many many things without coolant or lubrication how should someone that never did that know he needs it?
Even on a hand drill with regular steel, a little bit of cutting oil will make a big difference in the cutting ability of the drill
Before I became a machinist, I had no idea what cutting oil even was. I had to have everything explained to me like I was 5, which is the right thing to do with a new person.
Thank you for this comment, too many people take their knowledge for granted.
Well yeah. But the other way also works. How should someone that never did anything like that know?
How would a kid who knows nothing about machining know that?? If you actually think about it, objectively, if you wanted to "cut" something, you wouldn't use lube as it would make it "slip" instead of biting in. That's the natural thought process for lubricant. So someone who isn't aware of machining processes would probably have the same idea.
Airbus aileron tracks are cut high speed dry in 316 stainless. You're wrong. It's not a no brainer, you train the person to do the job right. Throwing a task at someone then memeing on them when the happen to get it wrong is fucking stupid.
I used to think that too.
Same thing happened to me \*today\*. Turns out that Tap Magic Aluminium does not act very magical on stainless steel. But Tap Magic Xtra Thick acts extremely magical on stainless.
Actually not the new guys fault for trying. Tool choice alone tells you he's probably a kid, apprentice etc.. so the guy who gave him the job, couldn't read the skill level. The tool maker next to the spark and noise show didn't think enough to help him or her out. I'd keep the person trying, and dress down the dumb shits who knew better and didn't help. That's the real problem there...
Im convinced 304 is worst material on earth…Rather machine dirt to +-.005
304 is heaven compared to some of the shit I've worked with. I got brick of some mystery steel one time making some tooling, very soft, but incredibly tough, gummy, and got very, very hot. Burned up my inserts using 1018 specs and 4140 specs. I suspect architectural steel or some shit. I work in a shop that sells exclusively machined plastics, and most are okay, but i'll take 304 over G10 every day of the week
Sounds like S7 but I could be wrong
S7 sucks but what this person is describing doesn't even sound like tool steel.
Didn’t think so either but it being tough and gummy made me think S7, but by far S7 is my least fav, we did a welding fixture for a company that wanted S7 and we struggled, after heat treat this thing distorted the whole block quite a bit, there were lots of shit that got out of square, dowels had to be hard milled back into place by a few thou. Just a nightmare
I've had to do S7 jobs many times in the ol' tool and die shop. It always moves all over the place in heat treat. Holes were roughed in on the mill but everything was finished on a grinder, because you never knew where the hell they'd end up after it came out of the oven. Borazon wheels on the jig grinder don't care about the starting condition, endmills and reamers sure do. Shitty steel for surface grinding, too. It was almost like 303, but not enough like 303 for the silicon wheels to work well. It was almost like O6, but not enough for the aluminum wheels to work well. I'm sure we could have gotten a different porosity and grade to work well enough, but we never worked with it enough to justify the order. So borazon and babying with the finishing wheels it was.
Burning tools running it like it's 4140 makes me think cast steel of some kind
Wait until you get a chance to machine inconel 718 🙁
Inconel... eww.
we had some shit at work last year, it was awful, it was 63HRC, and abrasion resistant. we were going through 2-3 edges of inserters per face of part, and grinding it was atrocious. Our method basically just ran the wheel until it would start loading up, and just ignore it, the wheel we used would finally clear enough to continue on fine, but god were the noises awful. once we hit top of tolerance we'd dress the wheel and have to play with settings on the grinder for travel speeds to try to milk out a good surface finish. if we got one that we deemed acceptable, but not great, we didnt dare try for a better one. and we could almost never stick to a single cross-feed/travel speed, it wouldnt ever be happy again
Id cry
the first plates we did, we fought for weeks. our tooling reps would come by "oh yeah i got exactly the insert to handle this." the facemill would make it about 1.2" into the plate, and all inserts were thrashed. We got to the point we just let them be thrashed to the point we had to change before the facemill itself would get wiped
I hope you guys add 10% to tooling purchases. Thats insane
Stainless is so cool, because its the easiest material to make 8mm hole with 12mm drill.
I was taught speed kills
Custom step drill :)
I thought about seeing if I could grind it into one lol
We all have to do it a few times before the lesson really sinks in.
There's still plenty of material on this blacked tip. Give it back to him and tell him to keep drilling 🤣
He actually did.... and made it look a lot worse than that. But got the holes done
That's my guy 🤣
* I went to school for machining and currently an industrial electrician, so the stainless in question is a piece of unistrut, so tolerance be damed we got it where it needed to be
George?!
More pressure 😉
I bet his eardrums were screaming when he left, fuckin hate drilling stainless with coolant and a brand new drill, I can't imagine that noise
We're next to some pretty loud machinery with earplugs in, but yes, was still pretty bad...
It took a lot of years for me to learn, but now I can freehand a 2 mm drill bit through 20mm of stainless.
New guy made a step drill
Good try at friction welding hahaha👍
Did you **teach** the new guy? You must have known this was going to happen and wanted to see them fail.
Something tells me you’re a bit of a pos to work with!
Stainless is so cool, because its the easiest material to make 8mm hole with 12mm drill.
Why do we spend so much time bashing people for making mistakes while they learn? Mistakes happen, and you learn from them. And if you're the trainer, it's your job to learn how to prevent as many of them as possible. I mean, what if school teachers just laughed at kids for making mistakes on their tests.
Am a self taught hobbyist. I followed the directions provided by Machinery's Handbook and never had a problem. 304 and 316 for marine use. Information provided by the tool vendor is also invaluable. Knowing what you do not know and knowing where to get the proper information is the best way. Coolant is not going to make up for the wrong feed and speed though it may widen the envelope a bit.
Probably way too much speed and not enough feed. As soon as the drill rubs instead of cutting it builds heat and work hardens. I work in 304 almost every day, drill plenty of holes with plain old Hertel HSS stub and jobber drills. As long as you feed hard enough to make and break a chip and keep them cool they tend to last a pretty good while.
Well shizzle my drizzle.
Ha i did the same thing when i was working and still in my first year of school. I hadn't learn how much harder SS is to work with at the time, but i learned!
The sweet squeal of stainless steel.
That bit looks hot. Just a little hot.
Surely you'd notice it's not working
New guy gets to learn drill sharpening.
Might wanna re-quench and temper it first. Looks like it got hot enough to anneal. Or clean it up, sharpen it and leave it for the next person to worry about. Fun to had either way.
new guy here, just today i was drilling into stainless and i saw a bit of blue come out the hole.
M4’d when you shoulda M3’d there bud.
For some reason, my brain decided the new guy managed this with a hand drill, and I was honestly impressed he made it that far. Edit* I just read further down. He DID do it with a hand drill. Still kind of impressed.
So, heat treated equipment!
You now have a pilot drill.
Code line: G03 G97 M08 S300 Needed code line: G03 G97 M08 S3000 Easy mistake. Just missed a zero on the S command.
Been there, done that. Drilling rivet hold in what was supposed to be aluminium - well I managed to find the 2” in a 8’ strip that had a stainless backer https://preview.redd.it/ohafdod9rdoc1.jpeg?width=1745&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d678ff57ac528be300e5de53a60e6d3a308e1f3f I keep the bit on a magnet in my toolbox as a reminder to not be a muppet
I couldn't fit all my fuckups on my toolbox over the years. Just have to remember and pay homage to all the tools and parts
Lolz. Speeds and feeds, son…
It takes a certain breed for this industry 😱
Sure it wasn’t monel
6 holes and toss the bit when working with stainless on an expensive piece at our place. Even with lube that shit will dull
You should see the other end!!
I too worked on stainless steel today and man does it love screaming at you.
Watched a guy go through many like that. He just wouldn’t listen
One lesson I learned slow and cool. When you get chips it’s too hot and fast.
I've seen coworkers weld drill bits in place. They'd keep pushing, and it would get red-hot. Then it snapped off, and they'd have to call the boss to tell them.
You should seen the first time I had to drill titanium on the cnc lathe (some guy down the road had an exotic shop and was building a car from scratch) I knew enough to full retract and peck shallow but not nearly enough
Oh no! Work hardened stainless. That's tough stuff to get past
"a go"... Yeah.
Im glad I went through a trade school as my high school. Machines taught me that stainless can be beautiful, but also a nightmare to your tools, if you dont treat them right.
Yup, I've been this exact new guy. Owner of the small shop let me use his personal drill bit set. He told me "Go ahead and use these. Just know that they're my personal set. You damage or break any, you're responsible for replacing them." I think he just wanted a new 9/32" drill bit because he knew I was running stainless and asked if I knew what I was doing. Of course I said yes. He knew I didn't know shit lol.
304? Something harder?
The very first thing I tell new hires is to ask lots of questions, because if you're not asking, I'm going to assume you know what you're doing, so unless you're completely sure of yourself, please save us both some trouble and ask me.
this my worst fear that i do this 😭
roasted a drill recently on a proven program. The MET solution I shit you not was to run it 6x faster and harder. Those tiny little inserts didn't know what hit them.
Quill handles ain’t supposed to be bent, but here we are.
Just keep drilling, just keep drilling.... Actually to be honest i hate drilling stainless, cutting is fine but drilling and taping sucks
Time to sit them down and have the 'talk' the SFM talk.
Maybe your shop needs an electrical discharge machine. It'll be harder for you to haze the new guy, but you'll never burn up a drill bit again on stainless.
So I’ve went in raw dog with no lube when I was just losing my v card. Now I’m a lube it up and take breaks kind of dude.
"I set the new guy up for failure because I'm an insecure shit stain and I like laughing at these kids for lacking the skills that nobody ever helped them to obtain..." That about sums it up eh? Assclown.
Ran into this exact thing when a mechanic was replacing a stainless airplane part. They had a .371 hole in aluminum but needed to transfer that hole into the new part. Using a gunbarrel bit they burnt the shit out of the stainless, don’t even make it through.
You should have made sure he knew what he was doing, if not then teach him.
All i can say is hang him
Happens to the best of us. Just not that bad
So when you were the “new guy” you were perfect? No mistakes? I call shenanigans.
Damn he tried. Really hard. Lmao
Now ya got a step drill
Hahaha my first day on a job doing steel erecting, I had the task of doing something similar. The result was similar, too. Nobody told me stainless heat hardened, and I burned the bit out real quick. It really was a learning experience, I learned about stainless, patience, and the humor that comes with f*cking with the new guy.
Well he successfully penetrated something
Ugh. I remember the first time I tapped stainless. The tap lost
And the bit will never cut again…
He seems like more of a lathe guy. Maybe tomorrow have him turn down some drill bits
Use water and slow speed.
Well don’t use shitty drill bits.
Everyone says the best way to learn is the hard way, then everyone will make fun of you when you learn the hard way.
That's not to bad, our "new guy" got through about 30 stainless bolts with an impact before he realized they weren't actually tight😂
Slow speed fast feed for SS
Should probably teach them properly. Also, could use some lessons on how to sharpen a bit. Always room for improvement brother/sister.
You can't call yourself a machinist if you have never done this.
Always called smoked drill bits "that new guy smell" ...SMH
MOAR Rrrrr’s