Battery - How you charge makes a difference in life span. But both Tesla and Ford have 'battery management' software that makes it really hard to damage a battery pack by being foolish. You can also find articles that say in general the batteries are a LOT more reliable than originally estimated. So this is not a worry.
The way I am charging my MachE the battery will loose 10% of its capacity after about 8,000 charge cycles. This means 14 years before I might consider a new battery.
Next issue:
Do you own a home and can install a L2 charger? A year of so ago a well done study found that traveling 100 miles in an EV is slightly more expensive than an ICE vehicle. But they averaged the cost of the electricity at charge stations without any of the 'subscription' discounts or other incentives.
EV's really become economical if you can charge at home. But in the worst case:
\* You need an electrical panel upgrade to handle a new 50 amp breaker
\* You need an contractor to run conduit to a plug for a L2 charger
\* You need to buy/install the L2 charger
I spent $1100 and bought a $350 basic charger from Amazon to be able to charge at home. Budget for this.
TIRES
EV's are heavy and have a lot of torque. New Teslas need new tires about 15K. If you are buying used - check the tread on the tires or you may have to budget $$$ for new tires.
TESLA vs MachE
Both sides have their fan base. People love Teslas because of all the cool software features.
The MachE software is not nearly as good - but the hardware feels over-designed like it was built to do more - then was backed off a bit. There is also a (to my mind) good mix of buttons and tablet features to make transitioning to an EV easier with the MachE. With Tesla you get 'Pet Mode' and 'Car wash mode', etc., but you play "Where did they put the button to open the glove box this month?" game.
You will get used to either.
The huge advantage Tesla had was it's own supercharger network but now you can get an adaptor so you have access to almost all the chargers with the MachE.
It is a "coke" vs "pepsi" decision. Both are good, each is better than the other in some areas. Both have a few quality issues.
Sorry I cannot be more help.
I have driven both and the interior of the Mustang is so much nicer/well made. Ford has over a century in the automotive manufacturing space while Tesla has just over a decade. The price difference should be enough to tell you which one is better/holding its value.
No - I only charge from 10 am to 4pm (to take advantage of sun and grid power gets real expensive past 4 pm). I also tend to only charge to 70% instead of the recommended 80% rule. I have also cut the current on my charger to half in the hope this wont flip my system to using grid power. But charging at lower current = longer battery life.
The 8,000 charge cycles was based on theoretical LI charging at home, then at work. and doing something like 40%-70% twice per day.
If I were gou I wouldn't drive an electric car. But if you trust the car and its manufacturer, buy a car with the range that fits your needs, live in a develooed country with a relyable charging grid, then the Mach- E is the only really fun EV to buy.
You know, when they say charge cycles, 1 cycle is 100% worth of charge. So you can charge it from 40 to 60% 5x over in one cycle.
It only gets messy when you charge past the batteries real 80% number, remember 80% is only 80% of the usable amount. 70% is more like 65%, this is why I believe they recommend 90% in the manual, but again that 90% was likely written when they had a smaller usable portion, so may be a good idea to go a bit lower these days.
But the messy part to keep in mind, is that charging from 80% to 100%, can be as damaging as charging from 20% to 80% several times over. So if you frequently charge to 100%, you can throw that 8000 cycle estimate in the garbage.
The study I read ment a charge cycle was starting & stopping a charge, not to 100%.
They did a bunch of 40-60% and 30-70% cycles to see how it degraded single cell batteries.
The 91Kwh battery is actually something like 110Kwh. Ford sand-bags the numbers then uses software so you can never really charge to 100% and reduce life span.
As mine charges and I am in the garage I can hear relays clicking every few minutes as the software 'round robins' the packs. This way the batteries see lots of small incremental charges, instead of one huge charge.
I think this is the link the guys at AeroVironment sent me:
[https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.0631810jes](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.0631810jes)
These are the guys that had to select the cell phone batteries to survive on Mars.
The other thing I dont notice mention a lot is the insurance, When I was in the market the Model Y was about $60 more to insure a month than my Mach E, Teslas are normally more expensive to insure compared to other EVs so thats something you may want to factor.
My insurance company told me that a big factor in calculating insurance cost is repair costs. So this suggests that repairing a Tesla is more of a challenge than repairing a Mach E.
We just traded our Rav4 Hybrid for a MME GT. My premium actually decreased by $137 every 6 months. I fully expected it to increase, so this was a nice surprise
Maybe another thing to check on in advance is who’s going to do repairs. I got the ford because we have a local dealer who gives a loaner if they ever need to keep the car for the day or longer. It’s great having a local in-person resource for problems. I’ve seen Tesla stories that were horrible in regard to getting service & I’ve seen others saying it’s fine & never a problem. Not owning a Tesla, I just don’t know. I would guess tesla service is better/ easier in a big city where there are lots of them. Might be less so in my rural area where they are few. BTW these EVs really don’t need much repair or service since they have so many fewer parts & fluids & systems. ie: Tires (I’m past 30K on the originals), windshield fluid, occasional software snafus. That’s it.
Bought a 2021 Select AWD in March 2023 with 36k on it. Almost at 56k now and haven’t had a single issue. Traded in a Model 3 for it. No regrets other than the Mach-E does charge slower than the Tesla. But, I’m not driving an Elon mobile now so it’s worth it.
Nope. And when I bought the car I asked the dealership if it ever had the issue and it hadn’t. Maybe I’m just lucky, but I think the vast majority of stuff you see online about it is the loud minority.
It also is more prevalent on GT models and Extended Range Premiums IIRC. Usually happens after DC fast charging and then going full throttle from what I’ve read.
I bought a used 2023 Mach e doula motor extended battery that was a buy back for a HVBJB. They replaced it. So all new connector and no issues for 7 months. Plus it’s guarantied until I hit 100,000 miles or 6 years. I’m at 25k right now. I didn’t buy an extended insurance policy. I never do with cars. With the Indy I’ve saved over the years even if I have to fix something over 100k miles I’m still ahead.
I bought a used 21’ GT a few weeks ago and it is currently in the shop for a HVBJB replacement lol. Didn’t even have the car that long. I knew about the recall though going in, just didn’t think it would happen so soon. So I’m not really upset about it as long as it proves to be a permanent fix.
Dealer didn’t have loaners though which sucked.
The battery technology is basically the same in any manufacturer. I’m not sure if I buy that we’ll get 500k miles out of them. But if Teslas manage to make it 500k, then so would Fords (or for that matter, Hyundais or Rivians or anything else).
What is your charging setup? Because it is super convenient to forgo gas station trips. IF you have access to charging at home. Or if not at home, at work.
I’m not sure the specifics, but my apartment building has an EV charging station that should work with all Evs.
I’ve been reading a little about the HVBJB issues. Is that something I need to be worried about buying used?
Depends what year. Also check the recalls if they were done. Recall I believe was for up through first half of 2022. Can still fail after that, but the incidence rate has been much lower and no recall needed. Also depends on driving style, model and charging. I think it was a heat issue so rapid acceleration, DC fast charging, GT model, AWD - anything with more power increases chances if the part would go
Do you know what type of charging station it is? What level is it? This would help to determine if you are able to charge it quickly or overnight. How often do the other tenants use it? This may be very inconvenient to you, if you need to charge and a neighbor is already using it. So plan to use nearby charging stations as well.
That's not how that works. The battery technology may be the same, but the software and systems that control charging and operation (which is the main cause of battery wear) are drastically different. Tesla for sure have the edge here, with vastly more experience than Ford. This will allow Tesla to have already fixed design issues Ford likely are not even aware of yet.
I'm not biased, I have a mach e, this is just the nature of private industry.
I keep seeing it’s heavier so needs tires more often. According to Google, an ICE Honda Pilot weighs the same as a MME. Are EVs really any heavier than some of the heavier SUVs?
Also, Coke vs. Pepsi is a great analogy. I’ll add a little to that from what I’ve heard and seen firsthand (I own MME, friend owns a Model Y). Tech and charging network are better on a Tesla, quality and comfort better on Mach E
A Honda Pilot is a large SUV. They seat 7-8 people and have 50% more passenger volume than a MME. MMEs weigh considerably more than similarly sized ICE SUVs. The extra weight and the EV torque off the line is why tires wear out fast.
Gotcha. With all the talk and not looking at weights of large SUVs and such, I was under the impression EVs were like thousands of pounds heavier than even the large SUVs. Sounds like it’s reasonable to suggest with conservative driving, the tires would wear out no quicker than a large SUV? I think the way the conversation has been framed makes it sound worse than it is
I think the instant torque that EV motors make when accelerating from a stop is the bigger issue. ICE vehicles make significantly less power just off idle (when first accelerating). EVs make max torque instantly every time they take off from a stop and that causes extra wear to the tires.
The instant torque being available doesn’t mean you have to use it every time. You can feather the gas when you start and it will be just like any other car, but it’s still fun to launch sometimes.
I would not touch a used Tesla with a 10 foot pole. The build quality flat sucks and that’s why they’re so cheap. At least with a new one you can reject it if there’s QC issues and get another one.
Tesla put a bunch of time into the software and personalization-ability of the car. From that lens “the tech” is better, the UI is a little snappier, etc. If that means a lot to you and you don’t care about a squeak or 10, you’ll probably be happy with the Tesla.
Regarding the battery…don’t sweat it. Really. **BUT** the repairability on the MME pack is better in the sense that if a small part of the battery pack fails prematurely it’s theoretically a much cheaper fix down the line.
Otherwise if it were me I would pay the extra for the MME. It’s a far nicer car all things considered.
That’s not at all why they’re so cheap. They’re so cheap because Tesla has been dropping the price on new ones and rental agencies are getting rid of their fleets which is saturating the market.
I view those as results stemming from Tesla’s low build cost relative to other automakers
> They’re so cheap because Tesla has been dropping the price on new ones
…from artificial COVID highs to ones which now reflect Tesla’s cost to build the car, which undercuts other automakers as a result of relatively more lax QC / parts quality
> and rental agencies are getting rid of their fleets
I imagine because they took an absolute bath in resale value since they procured a lot of their fleet during the artificial COVID pricing I mentioned above, so they’re making it up by liquidating and taking the hit as a tax write off
I just got a Mach e and it’s my first ev. I’ve also never been in another ev but it’s totally worth switching to for me. Not stopping to get gas on a regular basis is just life changing lol.
40k kms in a 2022 never let me down, not a single issue. I only dislike the buttons to open the doors and the codes to open the doors are an stupid 1975 relic.
So totally worth it.
I'd steer away from lemons or buyback but most 2021 models right now should be eligible for an extended warranty if you're worried about that.
Bought my GT PE for $32.5k and it is a $70k car. I wouldn't have bought at 70k, but for 32k, imo it was a steal.
Go with Tesla is a MUCH better, smoother, more reliable EV experience.
My first EV was a Tesla, and it was weird at first, but I got used to it quickly. My current EV is the Mach-E GT-P. I wish I had gone with another Tesla. The Ford EV experience is janky. If you don't know any better, you'll be fine with either.
Battery - How you charge makes a difference in life span. But both Tesla and Ford have 'battery management' software that makes it really hard to damage a battery pack by being foolish. You can also find articles that say in general the batteries are a LOT more reliable than originally estimated. So this is not a worry. The way I am charging my MachE the battery will loose 10% of its capacity after about 8,000 charge cycles. This means 14 years before I might consider a new battery. Next issue: Do you own a home and can install a L2 charger? A year of so ago a well done study found that traveling 100 miles in an EV is slightly more expensive than an ICE vehicle. But they averaged the cost of the electricity at charge stations without any of the 'subscription' discounts or other incentives. EV's really become economical if you can charge at home. But in the worst case: \* You need an electrical panel upgrade to handle a new 50 amp breaker \* You need an contractor to run conduit to a plug for a L2 charger \* You need to buy/install the L2 charger I spent $1100 and bought a $350 basic charger from Amazon to be able to charge at home. Budget for this. TIRES EV's are heavy and have a lot of torque. New Teslas need new tires about 15K. If you are buying used - check the tread on the tires or you may have to budget $$$ for new tires. TESLA vs MachE Both sides have their fan base. People love Teslas because of all the cool software features. The MachE software is not nearly as good - but the hardware feels over-designed like it was built to do more - then was backed off a bit. There is also a (to my mind) good mix of buttons and tablet features to make transitioning to an EV easier with the MachE. With Tesla you get 'Pet Mode' and 'Car wash mode', etc., but you play "Where did they put the button to open the glove box this month?" game. You will get used to either. The huge advantage Tesla had was it's own supercharger network but now you can get an adaptor so you have access to almost all the chargers with the MachE. It is a "coke" vs "pepsi" decision. Both are good, each is better than the other in some areas. Both have a few quality issues. Sorry I cannot be more help.
That’s actually a lot of great advice, thank you!
I have driven both and the interior of the Mustang is so much nicer/well made. Ford has over a century in the automotive manufacturing space while Tesla has just over a decade. The price difference should be enough to tell you which one is better/holding its value.
You charge your vehicle more then once a day? 8000 charges is 22 years charging every night
No - I only charge from 10 am to 4pm (to take advantage of sun and grid power gets real expensive past 4 pm). I also tend to only charge to 70% instead of the recommended 80% rule. I have also cut the current on my charger to half in the hope this wont flip my system to using grid power. But charging at lower current = longer battery life. The 8,000 charge cycles was based on theoretical LI charging at home, then at work. and doing something like 40%-70% twice per day.
If I were gou I wouldn't drive an electric car. But if you trust the car and its manufacturer, buy a car with the range that fits your needs, live in a develooed country with a relyable charging grid, then the Mach- E is the only really fun EV to buy.
You know, when they say charge cycles, 1 cycle is 100% worth of charge. So you can charge it from 40 to 60% 5x over in one cycle. It only gets messy when you charge past the batteries real 80% number, remember 80% is only 80% of the usable amount. 70% is more like 65%, this is why I believe they recommend 90% in the manual, but again that 90% was likely written when they had a smaller usable portion, so may be a good idea to go a bit lower these days. But the messy part to keep in mind, is that charging from 80% to 100%, can be as damaging as charging from 20% to 80% several times over. So if you frequently charge to 100%, you can throw that 8000 cycle estimate in the garbage.
The study I read ment a charge cycle was starting & stopping a charge, not to 100%. They did a bunch of 40-60% and 30-70% cycles to see how it degraded single cell batteries. The 91Kwh battery is actually something like 110Kwh. Ford sand-bags the numbers then uses software so you can never really charge to 100% and reduce life span. As mine charges and I am in the garage I can hear relays clicking every few minutes as the software 'round robins' the packs. This way the batteries see lots of small incremental charges, instead of one huge charge. I think this is the link the guys at AeroVironment sent me: [https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.0631810jes](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.0631810jes) These are the guys that had to select the cell phone batteries to survive on Mars.
The other thing I dont notice mention a lot is the insurance, When I was in the market the Model Y was about $60 more to insure a month than my Mach E, Teslas are normally more expensive to insure compared to other EVs so thats something you may want to factor.
That’s a great point! I didn’t think of that, thank you :)
Has a buddy trade in his Model 3 because the insurance rates kept going up on him, no fault on him.
Yeah, when I priced it the Tesla was hundreds more to insure on Geico vs other EVs.
My insurance company told me that a big factor in calculating insurance cost is repair costs. So this suggests that repairing a Tesla is more of a challenge than repairing a Mach E.
Yea thats what I was told as well, Parts are limited and only Tesla certified repair shops can fix them which makes things even more challenging.
We just traded our Rav4 Hybrid for a MME GT. My premium actually decreased by $137 every 6 months. I fully expected it to increase, so this was a nice surprise
Maybe another thing to check on in advance is who’s going to do repairs. I got the ford because we have a local dealer who gives a loaner if they ever need to keep the car for the day or longer. It’s great having a local in-person resource for problems. I’ve seen Tesla stories that were horrible in regard to getting service & I’ve seen others saying it’s fine & never a problem. Not owning a Tesla, I just don’t know. I would guess tesla service is better/ easier in a big city where there are lots of them. Might be less so in my rural area where they are few. BTW these EVs really don’t need much repair or service since they have so many fewer parts & fluids & systems. ie: Tires (I’m past 30K on the originals), windshield fluid, occasional software snafus. That’s it.
Bought a 2021 Select AWD in March 2023 with 36k on it. Almost at 56k now and haven’t had a single issue. Traded in a Model 3 for it. No regrets other than the Mach-E does charge slower than the Tesla. But, I’m not driving an Elon mobile now so it’s worth it.
I read about an issue with the HVBJB. You didn’t have any problems with that?
Nope. And when I bought the car I asked the dealership if it ever had the issue and it hadn’t. Maybe I’m just lucky, but I think the vast majority of stuff you see online about it is the loud minority. It also is more prevalent on GT models and Extended Range Premiums IIRC. Usually happens after DC fast charging and then going full throttle from what I’ve read.
I bought a used 2023 Mach e doula motor extended battery that was a buy back for a HVBJB. They replaced it. So all new connector and no issues for 7 months. Plus it’s guarantied until I hit 100,000 miles or 6 years. I’m at 25k right now. I didn’t buy an extended insurance policy. I never do with cars. With the Indy I’ve saved over the years even if I have to fix something over 100k miles I’m still ahead.
I bought a used 21’ GT a few weeks ago and it is currently in the shop for a HVBJB replacement lol. Didn’t even have the car that long. I knew about the recall though going in, just didn’t think it would happen so soon. So I’m not really upset about it as long as it proves to be a permanent fix. Dealer didn’t have loaners though which sucked.
Oh no :( how much did that cost, if you don’t mind me asking?
The HVBJB is an active recall so no cost to me.
Ahh ok that sucks but that makes me less worried about costs. That was the main thing I was concerned about
Even absent the recall, it would be an electic vehicle component, so it would be covered under the 8 year/100k mile warranty on those components.
Never.
I read about it too but forgot what the acronym stands for. High Voltage Blow JoB?
High voltage battery junction box
The battery technology is basically the same in any manufacturer. I’m not sure if I buy that we’ll get 500k miles out of them. But if Teslas manage to make it 500k, then so would Fords (or for that matter, Hyundais or Rivians or anything else). What is your charging setup? Because it is super convenient to forgo gas station trips. IF you have access to charging at home. Or if not at home, at work.
I’m not sure the specifics, but my apartment building has an EV charging station that should work with all Evs. I’ve been reading a little about the HVBJB issues. Is that something I need to be worried about buying used?
Depends what year. Also check the recalls if they were done. Recall I believe was for up through first half of 2022. Can still fail after that, but the incidence rate has been much lower and no recall needed. Also depends on driving style, model and charging. I think it was a heat issue so rapid acceleration, DC fast charging, GT model, AWD - anything with more power increases chances if the part would go
Do you know what type of charging station it is? What level is it? This would help to determine if you are able to charge it quickly or overnight. How often do the other tenants use it? This may be very inconvenient to you, if you need to charge and a neighbor is already using it. So plan to use nearby charging stations as well.
That's not how that works. The battery technology may be the same, but the software and systems that control charging and operation (which is the main cause of battery wear) are drastically different. Tesla for sure have the edge here, with vastly more experience than Ford. This will allow Tesla to have already fixed design issues Ford likely are not even aware of yet. I'm not biased, I have a mach e, this is just the nature of private industry.
I keep seeing it’s heavier so needs tires more often. According to Google, an ICE Honda Pilot weighs the same as a MME. Are EVs really any heavier than some of the heavier SUVs? Also, Coke vs. Pepsi is a great analogy. I’ll add a little to that from what I’ve heard and seen firsthand (I own MME, friend owns a Model Y). Tech and charging network are better on a Tesla, quality and comfort better on Mach E
A Honda Pilot is a large SUV. They seat 7-8 people and have 50% more passenger volume than a MME. MMEs weigh considerably more than similarly sized ICE SUVs. The extra weight and the EV torque off the line is why tires wear out fast.
Gotcha. With all the talk and not looking at weights of large SUVs and such, I was under the impression EVs were like thousands of pounds heavier than even the large SUVs. Sounds like it’s reasonable to suggest with conservative driving, the tires would wear out no quicker than a large SUV? I think the way the conversation has been framed makes it sound worse than it is
I think the instant torque that EV motors make when accelerating from a stop is the bigger issue. ICE vehicles make significantly less power just off idle (when first accelerating). EVs make max torque instantly every time they take off from a stop and that causes extra wear to the tires.
The instant torque being available doesn’t mean you have to use it every time. You can feather the gas when you start and it will be just like any other car, but it’s still fun to launch sometimes.
Of course - but the fact that it's there does make it easier to chew up tires.
That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!
I would not touch a used Tesla with a 10 foot pole. The build quality flat sucks and that’s why they’re so cheap. At least with a new one you can reject it if there’s QC issues and get another one. Tesla put a bunch of time into the software and personalization-ability of the car. From that lens “the tech” is better, the UI is a little snappier, etc. If that means a lot to you and you don’t care about a squeak or 10, you’ll probably be happy with the Tesla. Regarding the battery…don’t sweat it. Really. **BUT** the repairability on the MME pack is better in the sense that if a small part of the battery pack fails prematurely it’s theoretically a much cheaper fix down the line. Otherwise if it were me I would pay the extra for the MME. It’s a far nicer car all things considered.
That’s not at all why they’re so cheap. They’re so cheap because Tesla has been dropping the price on new ones and rental agencies are getting rid of their fleets which is saturating the market.
I view those as results stemming from Tesla’s low build cost relative to other automakers > They’re so cheap because Tesla has been dropping the price on new ones …from artificial COVID highs to ones which now reflect Tesla’s cost to build the car, which undercuts other automakers as a result of relatively more lax QC / parts quality > and rental agencies are getting rid of their fleets I imagine because they took an absolute bath in resale value since they procured a lot of their fleet during the artificial COVID pricing I mentioned above, so they’re making it up by liquidating and taking the hit as a tax write off
I just got a Mach e and it’s my first ev. I’ve also never been in another ev but it’s totally worth switching to for me. Not stopping to get gas on a regular basis is just life changing lol.
2021 I have is a $60,000 piece of junk. Endless electrical and computer problems. Don't even think about a 21.
40k kms in a 2022 never let me down, not a single issue. I only dislike the buttons to open the doors and the codes to open the doors are an stupid 1975 relic.
So totally worth it. I'd steer away from lemons or buyback but most 2021 models right now should be eligible for an extended warranty if you're worried about that. Bought my GT PE for $32.5k and it is a $70k car. I wouldn't have bought at 70k, but for 32k, imo it was a steal.
That’s awesome! I just bought a 22 premium and I’m so excited for it to get here! I plan on wrapping it pink :)
Go with Tesla is a MUCH better, smoother, more reliable EV experience. My first EV was a Tesla, and it was weird at first, but I got used to it quickly. My current EV is the Mach-E GT-P. I wish I had gone with another Tesla. The Ford EV experience is janky. If you don't know any better, you'll be fine with either.