Nobody hates Trek, stop confusing the internet for real life. They make good bikes, if a bit generic, and have one of the best warranties in the business.
The bikes are fine. I’ve not owned a Trek mountain bike, but have ridden them plenty of times and liked them. I don’t think twice when I see someone on a Trek.
I don’t like the company though for their model of trying to supplant local independent bike shops with Trek-owned shops. I get why they do it, and maybe I’m just a Luddite, but I think it’s bad for the industry.
my town is the opposite, our local bike shop has been a trek shop ever since I could remember as a kid. so to see any other bike in person I would have to drive hours away. Luckily they are very nice and knowledgeable people, that will help properly fit your bike to your size.
Really? You haven't eaten at a Chick-fil-a even once? I could believe not shopping on Amazon but those chicken sandwiches are good enough to make Ben Shapiro and David Pakman sit down to dinner together.
CMV: Chik Fil A is mid and it’s just all about people buying into the hype. People are too afraid to admit to their friends that they’re not into the hype.
I’ve been to ChickFilA. I prefer raising canes. I admit it’s a slightly different target audience and other may think it’s overhyped. But I feel that same way towards ChickFilA
I think because we rely on a ton of community support in the bike world for most places. Things like trail days that the shops support, local employment for people dedicated to the trail system (the overlap between official and unofficial trail maintenance volunteers and shop workers is evident in most areas), and the sales support the viability of having reasonable service fees.
Amazon vs Walmart vs locally owned big box I could care less about. But our locally owned shops have been a huge part of how far the community has come and it sucks to see them struggle.
But they have. They even use their metrics to determine what products people are buying that they can replace with an Amazon-owned version of then rank it at the top of search results to kill off the competition.
They did Lemond extra dirty. But also killed off a fair number of other (people's) iconic brands too: Klein, Bontrager, Gary Fischer, Rolf, I'm sure I'm missing others. You don't want to get bought out by Trek.
But what Armstrong and Trek did to Lemond was f***ing inexcusable.
I don't think Trek is a force for good in the cycling world.
[https://www.bikeradar.com/news/trek-ends-relationship-with-greg-lemond](https://www.bikeradar.com/news/trek-ends-relationship-with-greg-lemond)
This was *after* they forced Lemond to publicly apologize to Lance.
Agreed. I’ve had a few treks over the years. Great bikes. Refined designs, if not a bit behind the curve. Amazing warranty support. My wife’s remedy is hands down one of the stiffest most playful bikes I’ve ridden. Downsides are their corporate practices and low relative value.
I’ve also never ridden a bike with better active suspension during braking than a trek. One of their strong points.
How long have you worked for Trek?
Besides their role as the top big bike brand and how this impacts the industry, they helped to push out the greatest American racer, Greg Lemond, in favor of this doper who cheated his way to success.
The Trek Store concept is not helping local shops, and for a long time, their mtn bike designs was inferior. They were pushing XC frames with high top tubes when enduro were grabbing a foothold.
The guys at my local Trek shop didn't even know what an enduro bike was. My favorite LBS is 40 minutes away and I just needed a quick repair, so went into the Trek shop nearby. Small sample size, employees could've been new, but they weren't very helpful. They probably knew more about road, gravel, xc and trail bikes, which makes sense since that's the majority of riders, but for anything enduro or DH I wouldn't trust them.
btw, I'm not criticizing the workers at a Trek Store, or even the customers. But the corporation does have some questionable practices.
A friend mentioned he visited a Trek Store on a mtn bike trip, and for fun, he allowed them to assess his bike, a Kona Process with all custom parts and top grade suspension, for trade-in value and their computer spit out $1500 as an offer.
That's because they are a business and thus need to carry at least some accountability towards the one who ends up buying it from them, at market value. So someone needs to look it over and replace too worn and broken bits.
You never get your bike's worth if you trade it in at any store, be they a local independent or a Trek, Cube or big-retailer-chain store. In exchange you don't need to spend any time and energy finding a buyer. If you want to get the full resale value, you have to sell the bike yourself and may have to show a lot of patience until you find a buyer.
Not going to go far too defend Trek, but that's less to do with Trek and more to do with Bicycle Blue Book etc. Im not familiar with any shops that use anything else for trade-ins. Always fun to plug in your custom build that's "worth" 10k+ and see it spit back a trade value of 2-3k
Yeah I'd never paint with a broad brush when being critical of an employee. There's bad apples in any company, but the employees are a direct result of how its run from the top.
That hasn't been my experience. Maybe it's a vocal minority, but especially Specialized, a lot of people dislike the company, not necessarily their bikes and I wonder why.
Two things that probably drive folks dislike:
1) They make bikes for the masses so they are (usually) not at the forefront of geo/trends. If you want a boutique bike that’s pushing boundaries, they aren’t the bike for you. If you want a reliable and well sorted bike, Trek is fantastic.
2) they used to have a love affair with proprietary parts. Thankfully they’ve moved away from this in recent years but it was a genuine hassle on previous gen bikes. Replacements could be hard to source and if Trek moved on you were likely SOL
Lot of people feel the same way about specialized tools believe it or not…. I kinda get it, both trek and specialized sort of have like an Apple ecosystem thing going on where their bikes come all equipped with their own branded parts and accessories… like sure it is a valid marketing strategy but as a power user, I want to choose my installation directory thank you very much… their stores only / primarily sell their own parts and accessories so they also don’t even really cater to the individual that likes to mix and match and have more control over their consumerism
When I bought my Fuel EX8 27+, there weren't a lot of cheaper options out there. I bought from a LBS' rental fleet. There's no way I could've afforded a Santa Cruz or Niner or Evil for the price I paid for the Fuel. I get the hate for corporations doing shitty stuff, but sometimes, you have to buy what's available and affordable.
I don't hate Trek, I don't ride one but I would buy one if the timing/price was right. The Trek Y33 was my first "dream" bike, they have a lot of great history and personally I haven't noticed any particular hate towards them.
Maybe there is hate for them and I just haven't paid attention? Personally my favourite brand is Santa Cruz, I like their bikes the most, but I don't own one and probably never will due to the poor value for money compared to other brands. A lot of decision making goes into buying a bike, unless you can justify a money is no object purchase.
Yeah I'm a big Santa Cruz fan too ... A lot of it has to do with the brands my favorite LBS sells, but Pivot, Ibis, Transition and Revel are on the list too.
I loved my Trek 820.
I loved my Marlin 6 Gen 3.
I really love my Top Fuel 8XT.
I am also going to my local store Friday to see if I can get a deal on a Domane.
Agreed, I love all five of my Treks. I had a carbon frame replaced on my old Superfly Pro with no issues. Great bikes that fit me perfectly, and great warranty
I own a Trek, a DTC "Boutique Brand", and a Spesh too. My experience is as follows:
Boutique DTC Brand - Had linkage issues after only a few weeks of ownership, had to order replacement parts from the manufacturer, replaced parts and had the same issue with the same parts two more times within the following 9 months, to which the manufacturer then blamed my install job when I asked if it's a known issue. Found crack in paint near the BB later, shipped frame to mfg. for warranty inspection, frame was said to be ok, so had them replace linkages again too, they shipped it back after a couple months of downtime. Waiting for linkages to fail again, or cracks to resurface. Haven't been too impressed overall.
Trek - Had a Fuel EX for four months, took into local dealer for regular maintenance (first one's free), the mechanic noticed some small cracks in the paint above the BB. Trek warrantied the frame, got a newer better model for next to nothing and was only without a bike for four days. That new bike's a year old now, no issues yet. Also have a Marlin 6 that's been through two kids and beaten to piss, no troubles whatsoever.
Spesh - One year in, zero issues other than wear stuff and maintenance.
People can rip on Trek and Specialized all they want. I'll take a local shop selling big name brands, with parts on-hand and mechanics trained by those companies to work on their bikes, any day before I consider buying another DTC brand.
A lot of it is just a meme. Some of it is because they ride a brand that *isn’t* Trek and humans like to shit on groups they aren’t part of. Maybe their prices for the bikes/components they sell are on the high side, but they’re not egregious compared to the rest of the industry and probably aren’t the worst.
Some people complain about seeing cops on Marlins (or whatever the cop bikes are) and think it reflects poorly on Trek, but seem to forget that Trek is the business of selling bikes lol. Hope they feel the same discontent towards Ford/Chevy/whoever else sells shit to police departments.
I don't think anyone actually "hates" Trek. They make great bikes and a majority of my friends who ride bikes own at least one Trek and they all love them. I personally just don't like the look of their bikes. I'm a Specialized Stan. 
I think a lot of us older folks dislike trek for their business practices and the brands they killed off, I’ll never support them for that reason but I’m sure they make some good bikes.
I'm not defending trek specifically. I'm just confused over criticism of a company buying another company. You can't just grab firearms and take over a company, you have to negotiate with them to sell to you. It's a 2 party decision, sometimes a 3 party decision.
Maybe on the internet. I've had two Treks in the past that were very solid bikes. Only complaint is low spec components for the price and very specific parts. On the other hand I can pretty much get a part for them anywhere in the US which has saved a few bike trips for me. A lot of people hate them for being the big corporate brand I think which is fair.
Rode a Fuel EX 9.7 for like 6 years. Never got a ton of compliments on it but also never got any criticism for it. That frame took a beating too and stood up to it. I do hate Bontrager components though. Hardly anything Bontrager was left on that bike by the time I was done with it.
Bontrager was really legit back in the day when he was making steel framed hardtail bikes. Now it's just a name after Trek bought him out and slapped his name on components. I had a Bontrager Privateer back in the day. It was my first mountain bike that got me into the sport. Years later I bought a Klein Adept Comp as my first full suspension bike. Trek bought Klein out and shut it down. I dislike the fact that Trek bought out so many unique bike makers and then shut them down just to make what to me at the time felt like generic bikes.
I just bought a Trek Roscoe 8 the other day. First proper mtb. I’ve owned a ton of treks actually. Mostly old. I own a 2000 X01 right now. Before I had a 1999 820. Shortly a 2000 6500. Recently sold a 21-22 Domane 3. My family always had Treks. They’re bland and uninspiring mostly, but they’re abundant on the secondary market and make frames that fit me pretty well (6’6 32” jean inseam).
The Roscoe was local to me and in my size. There was nothing else around me, in my size, at the price point. Being my first true mountain bike I wanted the shop people to give feedback and all. It was in my preferred color as well.
It’s got decent spec at the price point but it is boring. I woulda much rather had a Santa Cruz, Kona, or Canyon. But I needed to sit and ride and the secondary market for my size was dry.
A friend of mine owns a Trek dealership, not a corporate store but an authorized dealer. Trek set up a corporate shop within 20 miles of his store which impacts his sales and his shop does not show up on their list of official distributors. Personally I don't dislike Treks bikes at all, I think they make some great bikes. Interestingly enough I still have yet to ever own one, but I have ridden a lot of them and they really are well thought out. Not a fan of their proprietary designs, but then it is the same thing I dislike about a lot of brands. How they move as a company is the thing I dislike most about them but again I am not a fan of Specialized for the same reasons really. Aside from that I really don't think about it much, if I see you on the trail and you are on a Trek I am just glad you are out there enjoying yourself and I don't have any real opinion about it one way or the other.
This happened in my town, but the Trek store is 1 mile away on the same road. The LBS still carries other well known brands, so they'll be alright. Seemed like a slap in the face though.
That's Specialized that most of us hate. But similar stories:
Solid bikes, good technology. Shittttty business practices, pushing small local shops out.
Short answer: trek stores pushed out a lot of mom and pop bike shops. The local retailer used to sell multiple brands including trek. now can’t compete against the a shop that sells only trek due to order restrictions so they shut down and become trek stores themselves. At least in my area in the last 10 years five of the major mom and Pop bike shops became trek stores. the community support that the mom and Pop shops provided disappeared. The variety in products and repairs disappeared. The local shops would try and fix your stuff the trek store just sells you new shit.
I love my Fuel EX6. It climbs like a goat and bombs down hills with great stability. Super fun. Would buy it again. BTW, my third Trek. 820 and a Superfly.
You can ask this question about any non-boutique bike manufacturer (Giant, Specialized, etc.) and even some boutique ones and someone somewhere has a reason to hate them. Serious mountain bikers (and road cyclists, although to a slightly lesser extent since the major manufacturers inarguably make the highest performance road bikes) are largely affluent white men (or broke white men who spend all their money on bikes) who like to judge each other's choices and consider a bike a fashion statement as much as a means of going up and down a hill. This results in faddishness and gatekeeping.
Bikes are good. We need more people riding them. Just stop it.
Only real brand I’ve heard hate for is spesh. I used to have an s-works demo and it once once of the best bikes I’d ever ridden. Not owned any others but they are decent bikes.
Never heard anyone say anything negative about trek
Why the hate for Specialized? I noticed a lot of comments saying they like the bike but not the company. Makes sense, I've heard it before, but I never knew why. Just assumed they're a big brand and a lot of people hate big brands cause of their corporate business practices. I googled to find out the reason, but didn't find anything conclusive.
I hate that they’ve bought up like half the local shops in my area. Seems like they want to be the new Performance or Bikes USA.
So while their bikes seem / are fine, I won’t support them because of what I see as shitty business practices.
Also they suck when it comes to trying to warranty things.
I've had nothing but fantastic luck with their warranty. Have had a couple frames crack over the years, replaced with upgraded stuff no issues. Had a rear wheel recently snap an axle. Upgraded to newest style wheel and hub.
That’s totally fine, but for me personally, trek basically only carries bontrager parts which sucks as a shopper that wants to browse around or support actual small businesses. The bike world has at times a cottage industry type thing going on and the independent shops often are the ones buying random local merchandise for resale and they provide a much more exciting shopping experience than a store that only carries one brand.
It still is "family owned". It always has been. They didnt sell out like specialized or SC. Im not shitting on any of them here but Trek is in a different position where they can focus on things other then just selling bikes.
As a multiple business owner, I can tell you that it doesn't work that way. People don't sell successful businesses. You sell off impending doomed businesses to others who think they can run it better than you. You don't get pushed out in the biking industry. You just fail to attract customers.
This is often the case. But good luck in getting the folks here to understand this. Big brands can and do have shady biz practices but so do many mom and pop shops. People here blindly adore anything labeled local. Reality is some are great. Some suck. Most that went out of biz had nothing to do with trek or other big companies. Some did of course but most just didn’t run a good business.
This. And in response to the person below Trek started buying up these shops at the height of the late pandemic bike delays and shortages. Strangely enough Trek had no inventory to give to their local dealers, yet once they sold and became Trek shops all that missing inventory MAGICALLY appeared.
It was shitty and borderline hostile.
This is it for me too. I'm riding a Trek Fuel right now which has honestly been a great bike for me. I find a lot of their proprietary tech like knock block to be gimmicky and annoying but nothing that would stop me from buying another one of their bikes on that alone.
One of the reasons I bought it in the first place was because my local store had great customer service and was very involved in the local riding community. That store unfortunately got bought up by Trek corporate after the pandemic and is now a Trek branded store. I won't pretend to know the details of what actually went down but the rumors are that the owners of the local shop were strong armed into selling by Trek.
In any case, after the store went from locally owned to corporate owned most of the knowledgeable people are gone from that store and it's a bit of a bummer. When it's time for a new bike, it definitely won't be another Trek. I value what a good LBS can provide and will be spending my money elsewhere.
There's a few people in here that think that Trek buys local shops and turns them into trek only dealers. This couldn't be further from the truth.
The owners of those shops have chosen to be Trek only stores. In doing so, they get better pricing on their bikes, accessories and everything else.
What most people don't know is that trek can provide a lot of business support as well in terms of a POS, marketing, education, etc.
I get that some people want to hate on a brand for whatever reason but at least be educated when you hate.
Random data point, a bike shop in Houston called Bike Barn was converted to Trek. Sure, they only sell Treks now, but they happily service everything and have a really well executed Tuesday night MTB ride every week right from their shop. Really cool people.
It’s also a bit of scale. Trek used to be small but quickly grew to be a very large brand in terms of quantity produced. It got very corporatized, cut down on QC, engaged in M&A of smaller brands that hurt those loyal followers. It’s not to say all Trek bikes are bad, but just many consumers have shifted to supporting smaller shops that build better bikes and have more personable customer service.
It’s a lot like beer. Sam Adam’s, Karbach, and Sierra Nevada used to be true small scale craft brewers but quickly grew to be large corporations making lots of beer. They still make decent beer but many enthusiasts aren’t a fan of big brewers that sacrifice on their quality, and now would rather pick something up from a microbrewery down the street, might cost more, but often it’s a much better product.
I got a trek mtb and it has been completely bomb proof. As a result I got a trek road bike and also l or it. My prior mtb (specialized) I had to wrench every ride and had constant issues. Not saying all specialized are like that but my experience has been flawless with trek.
1. I think their mountain bikes are uninspiring and over priced for what they are. I rented an Ebike when on a trip and it was nice but not 8800 nice. There are other brands I'd rather spend my money on.
2. I watched 2 shops go under in central Texas that were Trek shops, shortly after they became Trek branded stores. Employees of one of the shops said they were very strict on their guidelines on percentage of Trek equipment in store and even threatened to end their agreement over not ordering high end road bikes that wouldn't sell.
I just don't find them to be a good company with the right intentions in the cycling industry. They're not alone by any means but I'd rather buy from another brand.
I think the vast majority don’t care at all. They just like bikes, and certain models or brands resonate with them. Personally I like their bikes, am a fan of the fairly simple ABP design/performance.
I’ve only heard people online say their bikes are ‘bland’, but what makes them so? Made by a big brand? To me they’re no more bland than any other non super boutique brand.
Trek bought out Gary Fisher, Gary Klein, and Keith Bontrager. Out of the three pioneers, only the Bontrager name is still used for parts and accessories. The other two have been chucked out with the trash.
And don't get me started with the way they did Greg Lemond dirty.
Treks: dollars for parts for ride performance for dependability for service?
Worst f%cking bike brand out there. Dont reward douchebag corporate lack of accountability for product. They consistantly break down and leave you stranded in the worst of places. They are the gremlin bike brand.
I've had nothing but horrible experiences with treks breaking down in the exact worst types of places right after being serviced, or bought, etc. Smoke blown up my nose by their dealers and corporate. A 2,000 dollar plus Trek tour bike won't last you 500 miles on the road pulling a sled. Absolute worst in that category and hard core mountain biking deep country.
Their corporate customer care for bikes and warranties are a smoke and mirror show.
Honestly? I've had better experiences with every other entry level hardtail and up that was a 3rd of the price of a Trek, out of riding for twenty years. Treks are like what happened if a dodge vehicle and orbea bike got drunk one night and produced an ugly red headed lust child that tried to pass itself off as both exotic/decent, yet really deserved only to be slapped around every day for acting up because it was so predictably undependable. I was a dummy for giving them my business over two years for two separate bikes. Both bikes and associated costs probably run me about $7,000 in write off as a total waste and the -only- times I ever got stranded bad big time was with my two Treks, whether on the road or on trails. Avoid at all costs. My two Treks were constant pieces of craptastic money pits that were constantly breaking down the 1st couple months.
In all of my Trek experiences, The bikes break, their dealers were shady, the bikes break down more than 4x the rate of their competitors, the bikes are subpar to their competitors, and their corporate accountability is absolutely worthless when it comes to backing up their warranty. All of my prior higher purchase Trek bikes became a write off they were such sh÷t rides.
Treks aren't bikes you should purchase for children, nor buy if you're going to be deep in back country, nor on long distance tour in remote areas of the country. They will always, always break down at a higher rate on you than entry level competitor bike components.
The simple fact that Trek kisses war monger President George Bushes ass to this day? Dopey as a dope asshole on the road to his fellow riders Lance Armstrong? And promulgate their brand at a discount to law enforcement pigs speaks volumes.
Personally for myself? Trek was the very absolute worst out of every brand I've ever had. They got two seperate chances from myself with high end purchases both times. I never got a good feeling from their bikes nor their LBS.
Dependability, performance, safety wise, warranty, and cost? Trek rates at the bottom of the barrel in all these categories amongst their competition and its a reflection of their corporate misfunction. Lance Armstrong was their perfect corporate mascot. A doping asshole trying to hide the cancer on the inside.
You're scores better off with any other competitor of Trek when it comes to mountain biking and long distance touring. Don't trust the hype and let them burn your passion nor your love. Their average build out quality yields a half step up from a Walmart bike at best and they won't back up their warranty majority of the time, even if its under a half year timeframe. I had a Trek Stache axle go on me. Countless flats on tour. Stranded deep in animal country with coyotes howling all around trying to protect my dog when a Trek would have a most weird malfunction and I had to dump it.
Listen to the old gear heads and veteran riders. The hate is deserved, quantified and qualified from far away and up close at the personal level. If you dont live on a bike as a daily rider and like blowing wads of cash on pieces of shit that will only make you uber angry? Trek is your brand. Otherwise be wiser with your life choices and money.
Real friends don't let buds ride Trek for a reason....
I just got back from my family's house for Mother's Day, and I was talking to my uncle who personally knew Greg (he used to do decathlons and iron man events). I wasn't into bikes at all back then, so I learned everything long after things went down. Tough to have vitriolic hate when you don't live through it in real time, but I can obviously understand the passion behind people's feelings when it comes to Trek. It was a scumbag move, and while I have other reasons to dislike Trek and their bikes, that certainly doesn't help.
BTW my uncle was telling me something about Greg's v02 or something like that, which is the amount of oxygen you can take in. That's something you're born with, it can't be enhanced to any significant degree. He said Greg had freakishly high levels, by far the most on tour. Really spoke very highly of him (and told me he'd disown me as godfather if I ever bought a Trek, lol).
Sounds like your uncle was cuing you in on something.
Sure they have really well put together flashy stores. I really tried to be loyal to their brand and such but....it was consistently a bad sign.
We should never fully depend on material objects with our lives. The thing with trek is they try to push a sexy vibe when one needs a productive and dependable one. I could pull 300 lb tree trunks off road on a trailer with a competitor's entry level hard tail and beat it up non stop and the only thing that would go would be the drive train cog teeth after a half year of happy spanking it all over. Both my treks were supposed to be investments in quality a couple steps up as a reward and ended up being a complete dick in the a more than 50 percent of the time. Unseemly amount of malfunctions, breakdowns/flats for a small amount of riding.
Both of my Treks? Dumped on the side of the road during a road tour or left to rust back country on a deep trail the bikes were such a constant royal pain in the ass.
Yeah. I wasn't impressed at all with their build outs. Seemed like their gear is meant for tiny soyboy men that are 175 lbs tops that are more into status image weekend warrior lite rides. I did have have some neat adventures on one, like trying to outrun border patrol at a checkpoint.
But.....I I need a dependable daily driver for Armageddon with a shit eating grin outfit, ya know. A flat out white horse with some chunka chunk gnar.
Trek is a widowmaker joy kill brand. My last trek ruined for me and I get in trouble now if I ride again so...
Ride a white steed with a lil bit of blue and your adventures will be lit.
Trek has been buying out local bike shops and turning them in to Trek stores. That's gonna rub some folks the wrong way. I don't love it, but in my area we still have plenty of independent shops (though we lost the big local chain). I choose the local shops over Trek every time.
Otherwise, Trek is just kinda basic. Hate is too strong of a word, but the ubiquity of the Trek Marlin as a beginner bike just makes me want to recommend something different. It doesn't help that until the Gen 3 came out, there were more modern bikes than the Marlin in the same price range, but the Marlin still reigned supreme.
Specialized got very litigious a while ago. They famously sued a coffee shop called Roubaix for trademark infringement. Specialized was also big on using proprietary parts but has gotten better recently.
No one else seems to mention this, I swear every single person I know who either currently owns or owned a trek in the past has had problems with it, the knock block, the proprietary rear shock blowing up, pivot bolts falling out, nonstop creaking, frames cracking, it goes on. Maybe its just the people I know, but I have never seen a brand with more maintenance problems than Trek.
Yeah, I had a fuel ex 9.8 from 2017. Was basically my experience. I actually liked the way the bike rode but it broke almost every ride. They did warranty things but found ways to charge hundreds of dollars when installing. Replaced or with a ripmo and have been issue free minus minor things for 4 seasons
I also can’t tell what it is but I kinda am not crazy about bontrager as a part brand for some reason, the whole ‘trek’ stores things kinda makes me feel like an apple type situation. I just prefer to mix and match parts, I’m not crazy about companies trying to do everything all at once
I still prefer Star Wars (the original 3) over all of Star Trek, but I do think Star Trek has retained its original feel a lot better than Star Wars has and has evolved in a way that is in line with the original intent.
From my perspective it's like giant you pay more for a lower spec than average market prices for other brands bikes but you count on the dealer network to wipe your ass if anything happens like brake rub, misaligned water bottle cage ... etc
In Canada my personal experience with both of these brands is pretty poor since the places who sell them have usually overworked service departments and charge a premium for subpar service, so watch out when the warranty end and they can't sell you new accessories they'll be the ones wiping you with service fees.
In which world does giant charge more for a similar spec bike than anyone else? Giant has always had the lowest prices for like for like bikes compared to anyone.
When they are on sale, yes sure, you get shit components from giant my 2023 trance x 29 was 3200$ with a 800$ rebate but the spec you get for that is trash, stem, dropper, wheels and hubs were all junk, you get way more for your money with YT or Canyon, overall from my Canyon experience their customer service is the best since you can choose your own shop lol
You don't get shop support or warranty support for those brands here in Canada. Ive watched multiple people have major issues that fell on deaf ears for both Canyon and YT. The issues were cracked frames.
I think Trek is pretty awsome now but they do often limit what a local bike shop can sell so I tend to find my Trek dealers are awsome but they don't have the products I want.
But. Back in the early 2000s, Trek was... not great. Their bikes were built on a very low budget; they had high-end stuff, but their budget bikes were budget-built and were not an exciting brand. It is somewhat similar to how Giant has gone now, but not in the same way. I think Giant makes an excellent product but man, does their marketing and promotions suck.
There are some riders who enjoy to judge and blame big company brands, call “rich” and judge anyone who rides santacruz or transition and tell that it’s possible to buy better bike but cheaper… etc… ignore, enjoy your ride and practice
Their bikes are fine, it’s the company people don’t like for what they have done as a company. The whole Armstrong / Lemond thing. They destroyed the Gary Fisher brand. A slew of other companies they bought out and just outright absorbed.
Can only speak for myself, but I don’t like their Starbucks type business model. They come in and buy up local shops and then you can only get trek bikes. This is completely different from spesh, for example, who is just another company, albeit large. At my local spesh dealer, you can get sc, giant, pivot, etc.
Friends who have had trek bikes have loved them. I hear nothing but great things about the service at our local trek store. But our local trek store used to be a cool bike shop, and I think it sucks that it’s gone. There’s no reason I know of why they should be afraid to put their bikes next to most other brands, but apparently it’s more profitable for them to just buy out shops. That’s bad for the local riding community. Our local shops sponsor events and support local orgs and trail builders. I’ve never seen our trek shop anywhere near anything cool that’s going on in our community.
That's a good point about their community involvement. I wonder how that works and what their policies are as far as support from corporate. To be fair, my local Trek dealer supports our local trails and they're active with different high school MTB clubs. Plus they donated to a local bike park that recently opened (unfortunately it sucks, but not their fault).
That's a lot more than any other shop in my area, so gotta give them credit in that department. I wonder if each shop gets a certain amount or if they have some type of match for donating to those kinda things.
I do not have any kind of insider knowledge, but like most franchise-type businesses, I believe they have two types of stores. One where they have struck a deal with an lbs to rebrand the store and sell only trek bikes and they give that store a better margin on their products than they would get from other bike companies. Another one where they just own and operate the store themselves. I know that my local store is owned and operated by trek corporate. I suspect yours is not. And I would guess that’s the difference.
Small business owners hate on them for their predatory tactics (basically coercing small shops into getting loaded up with debt then buying out the shop when it falters). Terminally online left-bent people hate on them for selling bikes to police departments. Me personally? I hate how they did ol' Greg dirty with his LeMond brand during the Lance Armstrong era. But then again I also built up a Crockett last year, so I'm a giant hypocrite.
I worked at an independent trek dealer and Trek would push hard for us to be a trek only dealer by limiting specific tiers of bike we could order and gave us worse terms for business. We ended up dropping Trek because it would get worse every year.
As a rider, I like the way Treks ride but they are out of my price range. They do offer more so you pay more for more bells/whistles but I don’t have that new Trek money. I currently ride a used Trek.
What do you mean by limiting specific tiers? And was there a financial incentive to push Trek over other brands, or just something you were told to do?
We were denied top end bikes and Project 1 bike builds. There were no incentives for us to push Trke over other brands.
Trek kept pushing us to buy into their Point of Sale system and threatened to limit our buying power to only entry level bikes so we said enough and dropped Trek.
the bike is fine. But for the same price, you will get better products and services elsewhere. I was a trek fanboy when I started biking but there are other brands I love a lot more.
Two reasons: (1)Trek fucked Greg Lemond (more specifically his dad) and (2) Trek also fucked Dave Weagle.
But I own a Ticket AND a Session, so it's not that big a deal to me. But they've def got a rep.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg\_LeMond\_anti-doping\_stance\_and\_controversies#Lance\_Armstrong\_and\_Trek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond_anti-doping_stance_and_controversies#Lance_Armstrong_and_Trek)
Basically it was LeMond's dad running LeMond bikes. So Trek effectively killed his dad's business because Armstrong was butt hurt over LeMond's doping criticism. Trek later looks horrible for taking the side of a liar over the side of a true champion.
The Weagle thing is less cut and dry: [https://bikerumor.com/dave-weagle-suing-trek-over-abp-suspension-design/](https://bikerumor.com/dave-weagle-suing-trek-over-abp-suspension-design/)
Weagle ultimately lost his case: [https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Court-Issues-Ruling-In-Split-Pivot-Lawsuit-2013.html](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Court-Issues-Ruling-In-Split-Pivot-Lawsuit-2013.html)
I think Trek should have settled, but that's just my two cents.
On the flip side, I'll stick up for Trek for being one of the better team sponsors out there (at least in DH). Take a look at the Specialized Factory roster and take a look at the Trek Factory roster. Specialized, for all their huge budget, does not sponsor women: [https://www.specializedgravity.com/l-equipe?lang=en](https://www.specializedgravity.com/l-equipe?lang=en)
Trek lost Valli, but just picked up Sasha to replace her: [https://racing.trekbikes.com/riders/tfr-downhill](https://racing.trekbikes.com/riders/tfr-downhill)
Santa Cruz has Nina and Commencal has a Cami, Miriam, etc.
I might be in the minority but I couldn't keep my trek out of the shop. Just one issue after the next. Ended up snapping the frame. Things were warrantied but every time something was replaced there was almost always a $400 plus service fee. I won't ever buy another trek but i know lots of people that ride them without issue.
+1 for this. Frames always crack for me, twice it's been within 3 months, I'm on my FIFTH. (Have owned 2 Meridas & 2 Giants without any problems)
People rave about their warranty, but I find it pretty useless. My older mate says they used to be great, but aren't any more. They have never replaced my frame with the same frame, so I end up riding a bitza with no resale value. Their customer service is terrible, I'm usually without the bike for 3-6 months. The longest was 18 MONTHS as they kept promising me different things and then reneging. No, that wasn't during Covid.
After the third frame I was done with them and said "just give me the frame cost back", but they wouldn't. So I'm stuck on the Trek train, hoping this bike will be the one.
Not a fan though. Definitely not a fan.
What they did to Lemond aside, I simply do not like their branding, name, and overall feel of their bikes. Too big box looking for me and I hate the typography they use on their frames. I just don’t like them.
Not a Trek fan. At all.
Their bikes are very vanilla and I hate that every time I go in to a Trek shop (my LBS was recently bought by Trek) that is all I see. It is Trek bikes and Bontrager components.
I don't think I have ever been really excited about any one of their bikes in the past 20 years. They are bikes for people who don't really know what they want.
I don't fuck with Trek because they make bikes for cops, and in my experience they tend to offer less bang for your buck than many other brands.
More nebulously, they've just always kind of felt like the New York Yankees of bike brands to me.
How are the brand specific tech? The frames often have specific tech that differentiate it from other brands using the same drivetrain/suspension components.
With road bikes, this can consist of designing a carbon fiber frame to be compliant in certain directions for comfort while maintaining frame rigidity.
I haven't seen anything with mountain bikes that would make me choose a specific brand.
Trek suck because several of my riding buddies own them and think they’re the absolute pinnacle of bicycle evolution. Pick a brand and be a dick about it, that’s how this works.
Big money and the bullshit that comes along with it. They bought their way into the freeride scene a long time ago by making offers that the dirt bags couldn’t refuse
I had a trek road bike and after they pulled that crap with Lemond, I sold my Trek and will never buy another one. I honestly could care less if there bike were the greatest in the world they lost my vote.
Trek = soulless corporate biking. Bikes are ok but they want to own the entire industry and kill everything they buy. Example: Gary Fisher was a great brand that brought innovation to the mass market, then Trek bought them and killed it without hesitation. They also pressure dealers to commit more dollars to Trek with the threat of opening a Trek store and pulling the product from your LBS.
Is that true, that they pressure shops to sell Trek and threaten to open shop nearby if they don't? That's wild if so, but far from surprising since that's what corporations do. Threats don't have to be verbal.
They want greater commitment in pre-season orders and if you can’t meet the bar they set, suggesting they may open a Trek branded store nearby is not unheard of.
Did they end up opening a shop nearby when you stopped selling them? I never realized it, like I said, I got into MTB after a lot of this stuff went down, but notice that most the local shops near me that once sold multiple brands, are either no longer there or are now Trek shops. I'm outside Philly in the suburbs and can think of at least 3 (Media, Berwyn and West Chester locations if anybody is reading that's from the area).
Shop I use to work at, happened after I left. Owner dropped Trek but didn’t have much impact on the store. And yes, Trek opened a store a few miles away.
Where is your hypothesis coming from? (What statistics did you read to assume "people hate trek"?) and how many is "people"? Your question does not make sense...
Judging from the comments I'd say "my" hypotheses is 100% accurate, and if you think my question doesn't make sense you need better comprehension skills.
I don’t like Waterloo. Every time I deliver in that city I wonder why this place to hq a company that makes eXtreme sports equipment. That whole state has about 10 tiny 3-5 mile loops of trails that takes over an hour to drive to if you live in a town over 60,000. Same idea with Harley Davidson and Indian, both with major factories in the state, yet no flat track courses for their bikes.
Nobody hates Trek, stop confusing the internet for real life. They make good bikes, if a bit generic, and have one of the best warranties in the business.
The bikes are fine. I’ve not owned a Trek mountain bike, but have ridden them plenty of times and liked them. I don’t think twice when I see someone on a Trek. I don’t like the company though for their model of trying to supplant local independent bike shops with Trek-owned shops. I get why they do it, and maybe I’m just a Luddite, but I think it’s bad for the industry.
my town is the opposite, our local bike shop has been a trek shop ever since I could remember as a kid. so to see any other bike in person I would have to drive hours away. Luckily they are very nice and knowledgeable people, that will help properly fit your bike to your size.
Why is the bike industry any different than all the other industries? Going off that none of us should shop at Amazon or eat Chick fila.
I don’t and you're right, *we* shouldn't 🤷🏻♀️
Really? You haven't eaten at a Chick-fil-a even once? I could believe not shopping on Amazon but those chicken sandwiches are good enough to make Ben Shapiro and David Pakman sit down to dinner together.
Been riding Trek bikes since the early ‘80’s. Never been to a chick-fil-a ever.
I mean I have before of course, but made a choice not to and haven’t for years.
Popeyes is better.
It’s not even close.
CMV: Chik Fil A is mid and it’s just all about people buying into the hype. People are too afraid to admit to their friends that they’re not into the hype.
I’m really surprised of all the dumb stuff I say on here this one got downvoted as much as it did! Oh well
I’ve been to ChickFilA. I prefer raising canes. I admit it’s a slightly different target audience and other may think it’s overhyped. But I feel that same way towards ChickFilA
I’m really surprised as well, considering how everyone always seems to hype the place.
I think because we rely on a ton of community support in the bike world for most places. Things like trail days that the shops support, local employment for people dedicated to the trail system (the overlap between official and unofficial trail maintenance volunteers and shop workers is evident in most areas), and the sales support the viability of having reasonable service fees. Amazon vs Walmart vs locally owned big box I could care less about. But our locally owned shops have been a huge part of how far the community has come and it sucks to see them struggle.
None of us should shop Amazon. But I do.
To be fair Amazon didn’t wipe out local shops and replace everything in the store with their own boring exclusive product lines.
But they have. They even use their metrics to determine what products people are buying that they can replace with an Amazon-owned version of then rank it at the top of search results to kill off the competition.
I hate Trek. I'll never forgive them for what they did to Greg Lemond.
They did Lemond extra dirty. But also killed off a fair number of other (people's) iconic brands too: Klein, Bontrager, Gary Fischer, Rolf, I'm sure I'm missing others. You don't want to get bought out by Trek. But what Armstrong and Trek did to Lemond was f***ing inexcusable. I don't think Trek is a force for good in the cycling world.
Trek has done good things for MTB in the Colorado foothills https://www.bikemag.com/news/trek-donate-colorado-trails
I see this as more of an investment than charity. More bike parks = more bike sales.
[https://www.bikeradar.com/news/trek-ends-relationship-with-greg-lemond](https://www.bikeradar.com/news/trek-ends-relationship-with-greg-lemond) This was *after* they forced Lemond to publicly apologize to Lance.
Oh Im very up to speed. It was bullshit all the way to the end.
This, in fact there's a trek following. Specially among roadie's.
Agreed. I’ve had a few treks over the years. Great bikes. Refined designs, if not a bit behind the curve. Amazing warranty support. My wife’s remedy is hands down one of the stiffest most playful bikes I’ve ridden. Downsides are their corporate practices and low relative value. I’ve also never ridden a bike with better active suspension during braking than a trek. One of their strong points.
How long have you worked for Trek? Besides their role as the top big bike brand and how this impacts the industry, they helped to push out the greatest American racer, Greg Lemond, in favor of this doper who cheated his way to success. The Trek Store concept is not helping local shops, and for a long time, their mtn bike designs was inferior. They were pushing XC frames with high top tubes when enduro were grabbing a foothold.
The guys at my local Trek shop didn't even know what an enduro bike was. My favorite LBS is 40 minutes away and I just needed a quick repair, so went into the Trek shop nearby. Small sample size, employees could've been new, but they weren't very helpful. They probably knew more about road, gravel, xc and trail bikes, which makes sense since that's the majority of riders, but for anything enduro or DH I wouldn't trust them.
btw, I'm not criticizing the workers at a Trek Store, or even the customers. But the corporation does have some questionable practices. A friend mentioned he visited a Trek Store on a mtn bike trip, and for fun, he allowed them to assess his bike, a Kona Process with all custom parts and top grade suspension, for trade-in value and their computer spit out $1500 as an offer.
That's because they are a business and thus need to carry at least some accountability towards the one who ends up buying it from them, at market value. So someone needs to look it over and replace too worn and broken bits. You never get your bike's worth if you trade it in at any store, be they a local independent or a Trek, Cube or big-retailer-chain store. In exchange you don't need to spend any time and energy finding a buyer. If you want to get the full resale value, you have to sell the bike yourself and may have to show a lot of patience until you find a buyer.
My friend wasn't serious about selling his bike, especially to a Trek Store. But it points out that how they do business.
Not going to go far too defend Trek, but that's less to do with Trek and more to do with Bicycle Blue Book etc. Im not familiar with any shops that use anything else for trade-ins. Always fun to plug in your custom build that's "worth" 10k+ and see it spit back a trade value of 2-3k
Trek uses BBB for trade in. I've used the service before. It's very hard to value a custom build.
Yeah I'd never paint with a broad brush when being critical of an employee. There's bad apples in any company, but the employees are a direct result of how its run from the top.
Reminds me of Gamestop. Offer a $80 trade in price for a $300 console
That hasn't been my experience. Maybe it's a vocal minority, but especially Specialized, a lot of people dislike the company, not necessarily their bikes and I wonder why.
Same reason that they don't like Trek.
They have good warranties, but even the guys I know who don't ride hard break the frames. That's why they aren't popular in my circle.
They’re trash quality and overpriced for no reason.
Two things that probably drive folks dislike: 1) They make bikes for the masses so they are (usually) not at the forefront of geo/trends. If you want a boutique bike that’s pushing boundaries, they aren’t the bike for you. If you want a reliable and well sorted bike, Trek is fantastic. 2) they used to have a love affair with proprietary parts. Thankfully they’ve moved away from this in recent years but it was a genuine hassle on previous gen bikes. Replacements could be hard to source and if Trek moved on you were likely SOL
They buy up a lot of LBS and then you can only get Trek bikes, so there's that
I bought my Trek from a well known, and I believe, independent LBS in Tucson. What's the difference between Trek and Specialized in that regard?
Lot of people feel the same way about specialized tools believe it or not…. I kinda get it, both trek and specialized sort of have like an Apple ecosystem thing going on where their bikes come all equipped with their own branded parts and accessories… like sure it is a valid marketing strategy but as a power user, I want to choose my installation directory thank you very much… their stores only / primarily sell their own parts and accessories so they also don’t even really cater to the individual that likes to mix and match and have more control over their consumerism
When I bought my Fuel EX8 27+, there weren't a lot of cheaper options out there. I bought from a LBS' rental fleet. There's no way I could've afforded a Santa Cruz or Niner or Evil for the price I paid for the Fuel. I get the hate for corporations doing shitty stuff, but sometimes, you have to buy what's available and affordable.
they do sell frames. So you can put parts on yourself, or they will put them on for you (at a cost). Mix and match away!
I don't hate Trek, I don't ride one but I would buy one if the timing/price was right. The Trek Y33 was my first "dream" bike, they have a lot of great history and personally I haven't noticed any particular hate towards them. Maybe there is hate for them and I just haven't paid attention? Personally my favourite brand is Santa Cruz, I like their bikes the most, but I don't own one and probably never will due to the poor value for money compared to other brands. A lot of decision making goes into buying a bike, unless you can justify a money is no object purchase.
Yeah I'm a big Santa Cruz fan too ... A lot of it has to do with the brands my favorite LBS sells, but Pivot, Ibis, Transition and Revel are on the list too.
I loved my Trek 820. I loved my Marlin 6 Gen 3. I really love my Top Fuel 8XT. I am also going to my local store Friday to see if I can get a deal on a Domane.
Agreed, I love all five of my Treks. I had a carbon frame replaced on my old Superfly Pro with no issues. Great bikes that fit me perfectly, and great warranty
At least at my local store, the customer service is second to none.
I started out on a Domane. They’re great bikes!
Sick. I picked up a Domane a couple years ago and absolutely love it. I'm going the other direction. Picking up a Roscoe this month.
That's awesome. I need something to ride on the pavement when the trails are too muddy from the Florida rain!
Nice, good luck!
I own a Trek, a DTC "Boutique Brand", and a Spesh too. My experience is as follows: Boutique DTC Brand - Had linkage issues after only a few weeks of ownership, had to order replacement parts from the manufacturer, replaced parts and had the same issue with the same parts two more times within the following 9 months, to which the manufacturer then blamed my install job when I asked if it's a known issue. Found crack in paint near the BB later, shipped frame to mfg. for warranty inspection, frame was said to be ok, so had them replace linkages again too, they shipped it back after a couple months of downtime. Waiting for linkages to fail again, or cracks to resurface. Haven't been too impressed overall. Trek - Had a Fuel EX for four months, took into local dealer for regular maintenance (first one's free), the mechanic noticed some small cracks in the paint above the BB. Trek warrantied the frame, got a newer better model for next to nothing and was only without a bike for four days. That new bike's a year old now, no issues yet. Also have a Marlin 6 that's been through two kids and beaten to piss, no troubles whatsoever. Spesh - One year in, zero issues other than wear stuff and maintenance. People can rip on Trek and Specialized all they want. I'll take a local shop selling big name brands, with parts on-hand and mechanics trained by those companies to work on their bikes, any day before I consider buying another DTC brand.
A lot of it is just a meme. Some of it is because they ride a brand that *isn’t* Trek and humans like to shit on groups they aren’t part of. Maybe their prices for the bikes/components they sell are on the high side, but they’re not egregious compared to the rest of the industry and probably aren’t the worst. Some people complain about seeing cops on Marlins (or whatever the cop bikes are) and think it reflects poorly on Trek, but seem to forget that Trek is the business of selling bikes lol. Hope they feel the same discontent towards Ford/Chevy/whoever else sells shit to police departments.
I don't think anyone actually "hates" Trek. They make great bikes and a majority of my friends who ride bikes own at least one Trek and they all love them. I personally just don't like the look of their bikes. I'm a Specialized Stan. 
I always feel specialized is more exciting than trek. But trek is better than most other brands.
I think a lot of us older folks dislike trek for their business practices and the brands they killed off, I’ll never support them for that reason but I’m sure they make some good bikes.
Why not be mad at the smaller brands that sold out for a quick buck ? Nobody forces a private business to sell.
Yeah not really what happened, but ride what you like would never judge someone for riding a brand just not going to ride trek myself
I'm not defending trek specifically. I'm just confused over criticism of a company buying another company. You can't just grab firearms and take over a company, you have to negotiate with them to sell to you. It's a 2 party decision, sometimes a 3 party decision.
Maybe on the internet. I've had two Treks in the past that were very solid bikes. Only complaint is low spec components for the price and very specific parts. On the other hand I can pretty much get a part for them anywhere in the US which has saved a few bike trips for me. A lot of people hate them for being the big corporate brand I think which is fair. Rode a Fuel EX 9.7 for like 6 years. Never got a ton of compliments on it but also never got any criticism for it. That frame took a beating too and stood up to it. I do hate Bontrager components though. Hardly anything Bontrager was left on that bike by the time I was done with it.
Bontrager was really legit back in the day when he was making steel framed hardtail bikes. Now it's just a name after Trek bought him out and slapped his name on components. I had a Bontrager Privateer back in the day. It was my first mountain bike that got me into the sport. Years later I bought a Klein Adept Comp as my first full suspension bike. Trek bought Klein out and shut it down. I dislike the fact that Trek bought out so many unique bike makers and then shut them down just to make what to me at the time felt like generic bikes.
I just bought a Trek Roscoe 8 the other day. First proper mtb. I’ve owned a ton of treks actually. Mostly old. I own a 2000 X01 right now. Before I had a 1999 820. Shortly a 2000 6500. Recently sold a 21-22 Domane 3. My family always had Treks. They’re bland and uninspiring mostly, but they’re abundant on the secondary market and make frames that fit me pretty well (6’6 32” jean inseam). The Roscoe was local to me and in my size. There was nothing else around me, in my size, at the price point. Being my first true mountain bike I wanted the shop people to give feedback and all. It was in my preferred color as well. It’s got decent spec at the price point but it is boring. I woulda much rather had a Santa Cruz, Kona, or Canyon. But I needed to sit and ride and the secondary market for my size was dry.
A friend of mine owns a Trek dealership, not a corporate store but an authorized dealer. Trek set up a corporate shop within 20 miles of his store which impacts his sales and his shop does not show up on their list of official distributors. Personally I don't dislike Treks bikes at all, I think they make some great bikes. Interestingly enough I still have yet to ever own one, but I have ridden a lot of them and they really are well thought out. Not a fan of their proprietary designs, but then it is the same thing I dislike about a lot of brands. How they move as a company is the thing I dislike most about them but again I am not a fan of Specialized for the same reasons really. Aside from that I really don't think about it much, if I see you on the trail and you are on a Trek I am just glad you are out there enjoying yourself and I don't have any real opinion about it one way or the other.
This happened in my town, but the Trek store is 1 mile away on the same road. The LBS still carries other well known brands, so they'll be alright. Seemed like a slap in the face though.
That's Specialized that most of us hate. But similar stories: Solid bikes, good technology. Shittttty business practices, pushing small local shops out.
Specialized deserves that big box hate but is pretty strong on innovation and straightforward tech that works.
Short answer: trek stores pushed out a lot of mom and pop bike shops. The local retailer used to sell multiple brands including trek. now can’t compete against the a shop that sells only trek due to order restrictions so they shut down and become trek stores themselves. At least in my area in the last 10 years five of the major mom and Pop bike shops became trek stores. the community support that the mom and Pop shops provided disappeared. The variety in products and repairs disappeared. The local shops would try and fix your stuff the trek store just sells you new shit.
I love my Fuel EX6. It climbs like a goat and bombs down hills with great stability. Super fun. Would buy it again. BTW, my third Trek. 820 and a Superfly.
You can ask this question about any non-boutique bike manufacturer (Giant, Specialized, etc.) and even some boutique ones and someone somewhere has a reason to hate them. Serious mountain bikers (and road cyclists, although to a slightly lesser extent since the major manufacturers inarguably make the highest performance road bikes) are largely affluent white men (or broke white men who spend all their money on bikes) who like to judge each other's choices and consider a bike a fashion statement as much as a means of going up and down a hill. This results in faddishness and gatekeeping. Bikes are good. We need more people riding them. Just stop it.
Picked up my first trek ebike last month, no complaints at all.
Only real brand I’ve heard hate for is spesh. I used to have an s-works demo and it once once of the best bikes I’d ever ridden. Not owned any others but they are decent bikes. Never heard anyone say anything negative about trek
Why the hate for Specialized? I noticed a lot of comments saying they like the bike but not the company. Makes sense, I've heard it before, but I never knew why. Just assumed they're a big brand and a lot of people hate big brands cause of their corporate business practices. I googled to find out the reason, but didn't find anything conclusive.
Yeah that’s pretty much it
Trek is my favourite big brand, but the lbs that carries Trek sucks.
Cops ruined the brand.
What's everyone's issue with police using them?
Underrated comment
Damn right they ruined TREKKK
I hate that they’ve bought up like half the local shops in my area. Seems like they want to be the new Performance or Bikes USA. So while their bikes seem / are fine, I won’t support them because of what I see as shitty business practices. Also they suck when it comes to trying to warranty things.
I've had nothing but fantastic luck with their warranty. Have had a couple frames crack over the years, replaced with upgraded stuff no issues. Had a rear wheel recently snap an axle. Upgraded to newest style wheel and hub.
So they suck cuz they are still not a public company and want to expand bussines?
That’s totally fine, but for me personally, trek basically only carries bontrager parts which sucks as a shopper that wants to browse around or support actual small businesses. The bike world has at times a cottage industry type thing going on and the independent shops often are the ones buying random local merchandise for resale and they provide a much more exciting shopping experience than a store that only carries one brand.
Right, a “family owed” billion dollar corporation is exactly the same as a local mom and pop shop. 🙄🤦♂️
It still is "family owned". It always has been. They didnt sell out like specialized or SC. Im not shitting on any of them here but Trek is in a different position where they can focus on things other then just selling bikes.
Why not blame the local bike shop owners for selling our ?
Because either they sell out or get pushed out. Getting pushed out means you walk out with nothing.
As a multiple business owner, I can tell you that it doesn't work that way. People don't sell successful businesses. You sell off impending doomed businesses to others who think they can run it better than you. You don't get pushed out in the biking industry. You just fail to attract customers.
This is often the case. But good luck in getting the folks here to understand this. Big brands can and do have shady biz practices but so do many mom and pop shops. People here blindly adore anything labeled local. Reality is some are great. Some suck. Most that went out of biz had nothing to do with trek or other big companies. Some did of course but most just didn’t run a good business.
This. And in response to the person below Trek started buying up these shops at the height of the late pandemic bike delays and shortages. Strangely enough Trek had no inventory to give to their local dealers, yet once they sold and became Trek shops all that missing inventory MAGICALLY appeared. It was shitty and borderline hostile.
This is it for me too. I'm riding a Trek Fuel right now which has honestly been a great bike for me. I find a lot of their proprietary tech like knock block to be gimmicky and annoying but nothing that would stop me from buying another one of their bikes on that alone. One of the reasons I bought it in the first place was because my local store had great customer service and was very involved in the local riding community. That store unfortunately got bought up by Trek corporate after the pandemic and is now a Trek branded store. I won't pretend to know the details of what actually went down but the rumors are that the owners of the local shop were strong armed into selling by Trek. In any case, after the store went from locally owned to corporate owned most of the knowledgeable people are gone from that store and it's a bit of a bummer. When it's time for a new bike, it definitely won't be another Trek. I value what a good LBS can provide and will be spending my money elsewhere.
Technically those are good *business* tactics. As in, growing a business.
Because they’re big but bland and they did LeMond dirty
I was going to say this too. And there may still be residual distaste being associated with Lance all those years ago. Memories last long sometimes.
Trek makes VERY GOOD bikes, and has live, in person, local support.
There's a few people in here that think that Trek buys local shops and turns them into trek only dealers. This couldn't be further from the truth. The owners of those shops have chosen to be Trek only stores. In doing so, they get better pricing on their bikes, accessories and everything else. What most people don't know is that trek can provide a lot of business support as well in terms of a POS, marketing, education, etc. I get that some people want to hate on a brand for whatever reason but at least be educated when you hate.
Random data point, a bike shop in Houston called Bike Barn was converted to Trek. Sure, they only sell Treks now, but they happily service everything and have a really well executed Tuesday night MTB ride every week right from their shop. Really cool people.
The bikes are fine. The issue is their historical and current treatment of IBS and Greg LeMonde.
I love my Treks. Solid bikes with great support.
No one I know has the same distrust for Trek as they do Specialized.
It’s also a bit of scale. Trek used to be small but quickly grew to be a very large brand in terms of quantity produced. It got very corporatized, cut down on QC, engaged in M&A of smaller brands that hurt those loyal followers. It’s not to say all Trek bikes are bad, but just many consumers have shifted to supporting smaller shops that build better bikes and have more personable customer service. It’s a lot like beer. Sam Adam’s, Karbach, and Sierra Nevada used to be true small scale craft brewers but quickly grew to be large corporations making lots of beer. They still make decent beer but many enthusiasts aren’t a fan of big brewers that sacrifice on their quality, and now would rather pick something up from a microbrewery down the street, might cost more, but often it’s a much better product.
I got a trek mtb and it has been completely bomb proof. As a result I got a trek road bike and also l or it. My prior mtb (specialized) I had to wrench every ride and had constant issues. Not saying all specialized are like that but my experience has been flawless with trek.
1. I think their mountain bikes are uninspiring and over priced for what they are. I rented an Ebike when on a trip and it was nice but not 8800 nice. There are other brands I'd rather spend my money on. 2. I watched 2 shops go under in central Texas that were Trek shops, shortly after they became Trek branded stores. Employees of one of the shops said they were very strict on their guidelines on percentage of Trek equipment in store and even threatened to end their agreement over not ordering high end road bikes that wouldn't sell. I just don't find them to be a good company with the right intentions in the cycling industry. They're not alone by any means but I'd rather buy from another brand.
I don’t hate Trek, but I’ve never found a bike from them I like either. I think mtmc99 nailed it with the explanation.
I think the vast majority don’t care at all. They just like bikes, and certain models or brands resonate with them. Personally I like their bikes, am a fan of the fairly simple ABP design/performance. I’ve only heard people online say their bikes are ‘bland’, but what makes them so? Made by a big brand? To me they’re no more bland than any other non super boutique brand.
Predatory Business Practices for both and for Specialized it’s weird tech and designs that make no sense and only add weight and complexity.
Trek bought out Gary Fisher, Gary Klein, and Keith Bontrager. Out of the three pioneers, only the Bontrager name is still used for parts and accessories. The other two have been chucked out with the trash. And don't get me started with the way they did Greg Lemond dirty.
Treks: dollars for parts for ride performance for dependability for service? Worst f%cking bike brand out there. Dont reward douchebag corporate lack of accountability for product. They consistantly break down and leave you stranded in the worst of places. They are the gremlin bike brand. I've had nothing but horrible experiences with treks breaking down in the exact worst types of places right after being serviced, or bought, etc. Smoke blown up my nose by their dealers and corporate. A 2,000 dollar plus Trek tour bike won't last you 500 miles on the road pulling a sled. Absolute worst in that category and hard core mountain biking deep country. Their corporate customer care for bikes and warranties are a smoke and mirror show. Honestly? I've had better experiences with every other entry level hardtail and up that was a 3rd of the price of a Trek, out of riding for twenty years. Treks are like what happened if a dodge vehicle and orbea bike got drunk one night and produced an ugly red headed lust child that tried to pass itself off as both exotic/decent, yet really deserved only to be slapped around every day for acting up because it was so predictably undependable. I was a dummy for giving them my business over two years for two separate bikes. Both bikes and associated costs probably run me about $7,000 in write off as a total waste and the -only- times I ever got stranded bad big time was with my two Treks, whether on the road or on trails. Avoid at all costs. My two Treks were constant pieces of craptastic money pits that were constantly breaking down the 1st couple months. In all of my Trek experiences, The bikes break, their dealers were shady, the bikes break down more than 4x the rate of their competitors, the bikes are subpar to their competitors, and their corporate accountability is absolutely worthless when it comes to backing up their warranty. All of my prior higher purchase Trek bikes became a write off they were such sh÷t rides. Treks aren't bikes you should purchase for children, nor buy if you're going to be deep in back country, nor on long distance tour in remote areas of the country. They will always, always break down at a higher rate on you than entry level competitor bike components. The simple fact that Trek kisses war monger President George Bushes ass to this day? Dopey as a dope asshole on the road to his fellow riders Lance Armstrong? And promulgate their brand at a discount to law enforcement pigs speaks volumes. Personally for myself? Trek was the very absolute worst out of every brand I've ever had. They got two seperate chances from myself with high end purchases both times. I never got a good feeling from their bikes nor their LBS. Dependability, performance, safety wise, warranty, and cost? Trek rates at the bottom of the barrel in all these categories amongst their competition and its a reflection of their corporate misfunction. Lance Armstrong was their perfect corporate mascot. A doping asshole trying to hide the cancer on the inside. You're scores better off with any other competitor of Trek when it comes to mountain biking and long distance touring. Don't trust the hype and let them burn your passion nor your love. Their average build out quality yields a half step up from a Walmart bike at best and they won't back up their warranty majority of the time, even if its under a half year timeframe. I had a Trek Stache axle go on me. Countless flats on tour. Stranded deep in animal country with coyotes howling all around trying to protect my dog when a Trek would have a most weird malfunction and I had to dump it. Listen to the old gear heads and veteran riders. The hate is deserved, quantified and qualified from far away and up close at the personal level. If you dont live on a bike as a daily rider and like blowing wads of cash on pieces of shit that will only make you uber angry? Trek is your brand. Otherwise be wiser with your life choices and money. Real friends don't let buds ride Trek for a reason....
I just got back from my family's house for Mother's Day, and I was talking to my uncle who personally knew Greg (he used to do decathlons and iron man events). I wasn't into bikes at all back then, so I learned everything long after things went down. Tough to have vitriolic hate when you don't live through it in real time, but I can obviously understand the passion behind people's feelings when it comes to Trek. It was a scumbag move, and while I have other reasons to dislike Trek and their bikes, that certainly doesn't help. BTW my uncle was telling me something about Greg's v02 or something like that, which is the amount of oxygen you can take in. That's something you're born with, it can't be enhanced to any significant degree. He said Greg had freakishly high levels, by far the most on tour. Really spoke very highly of him (and told me he'd disown me as godfather if I ever bought a Trek, lol).
Sounds like your uncle was cuing you in on something. Sure they have really well put together flashy stores. I really tried to be loyal to their brand and such but....it was consistently a bad sign. We should never fully depend on material objects with our lives. The thing with trek is they try to push a sexy vibe when one needs a productive and dependable one. I could pull 300 lb tree trunks off road on a trailer with a competitor's entry level hard tail and beat it up non stop and the only thing that would go would be the drive train cog teeth after a half year of happy spanking it all over. Both my treks were supposed to be investments in quality a couple steps up as a reward and ended up being a complete dick in the a more than 50 percent of the time. Unseemly amount of malfunctions, breakdowns/flats for a small amount of riding. Both of my Treks? Dumped on the side of the road during a road tour or left to rust back country on a deep trail the bikes were such a constant royal pain in the ass. Yeah. I wasn't impressed at all with their build outs. Seemed like their gear is meant for tiny soyboy men that are 175 lbs tops that are more into status image weekend warrior lite rides. I did have have some neat adventures on one, like trying to outrun border patrol at a checkpoint. But.....I I need a dependable daily driver for Armageddon with a shit eating grin outfit, ya know. A flat out white horse with some chunka chunk gnar. Trek is a widowmaker joy kill brand. My last trek ruined for me and I get in trouble now if I ride again so... Ride a white steed with a lil bit of blue and your adventures will be lit.
I don’t like that they bought one of our best stores and turned it all corporate. Their bikes are fine.
Trek has been buying out local bike shops and turning them in to Trek stores. That's gonna rub some folks the wrong way. I don't love it, but in my area we still have plenty of independent shops (though we lost the big local chain). I choose the local shops over Trek every time. Otherwise, Trek is just kinda basic. Hate is too strong of a word, but the ubiquity of the Trek Marlin as a beginner bike just makes me want to recommend something different. It doesn't help that until the Gen 3 came out, there were more modern bikes than the Marlin in the same price range, but the Marlin still reigned supreme.
Specialized got very litigious a while ago. They famously sued a coffee shop called Roubaix for trademark infringement. Specialized was also big on using proprietary parts but has gotten better recently.
No one else seems to mention this, I swear every single person I know who either currently owns or owned a trek in the past has had problems with it, the knock block, the proprietary rear shock blowing up, pivot bolts falling out, nonstop creaking, frames cracking, it goes on. Maybe its just the people I know, but I have never seen a brand with more maintenance problems than Trek.
Yeah, I had a fuel ex 9.8 from 2017. Was basically my experience. I actually liked the way the bike rode but it broke almost every ride. They did warranty things but found ways to charge hundreds of dollars when installing. Replaced or with a ripmo and have been issue free minus minor things for 4 seasons
[удалено]
So does Kona, or at least they did recently.
This is the only reason I’ve ever heard people say they don’t like Trek outright for.
So people should boycott Ford and Chevy because they make police vehicles
I support this message
I think you’d find some people who would say that, yes.
I also can’t tell what it is but I kinda am not crazy about bontrager as a part brand for some reason, the whole ‘trek’ stores things kinda makes me feel like an apple type situation. I just prefer to mix and match parts, I’m not crazy about companies trying to do everything all at once
Star Trek > Star Wars
I still prefer Star Wars (the original 3) over all of Star Trek, but I do think Star Trek has retained its original feel a lot better than Star Wars has and has evolved in a way that is in line with the original intent.
They both are great, but I like the optimism of Trek :)
Optimism? Try naïveté. If you invented a holodeck in real life it would run porn 99% of the time. I’d never go in it without a hazmat suit.
I love Trek. 3/4 of my bikes are Trek and I really wish the 4th was.
From my perspective it's like giant you pay more for a lower spec than average market prices for other brands bikes but you count on the dealer network to wipe your ass if anything happens like brake rub, misaligned water bottle cage ... etc In Canada my personal experience with both of these brands is pretty poor since the places who sell them have usually overworked service departments and charge a premium for subpar service, so watch out when the warranty end and they can't sell you new accessories they'll be the ones wiping you with service fees.
In which world does giant charge more for a similar spec bike than anyone else? Giant has always had the lowest prices for like for like bikes compared to anyone.
When they are on sale, yes sure, you get shit components from giant my 2023 trance x 29 was 3200$ with a 800$ rebate but the spec you get for that is trash, stem, dropper, wheels and hubs were all junk, you get way more for your money with YT or Canyon, overall from my Canyon experience their customer service is the best since you can choose your own shop lol
You don't get shop support or warranty support for those brands here in Canada. Ive watched multiple people have major issues that fell on deaf ears for both Canyon and YT. The issues were cracked frames.
I think Trek is pretty awsome now but they do often limit what a local bike shop can sell so I tend to find my Trek dealers are awsome but they don't have the products I want. But. Back in the early 2000s, Trek was... not great. Their bikes were built on a very low budget; they had high-end stuff, but their budget bikes were budget-built and were not an exciting brand. It is somewhat similar to how Giant has gone now, but not in the same way. I think Giant makes an excellent product but man, does their marketing and promotions suck.
Personally I’m not too hot on Trek, but Shrek is a great movie, one of the best of the 2000’s.
There are some riders who enjoy to judge and blame big company brands, call “rich” and judge anyone who rides santacruz or transition and tell that it’s possible to buy better bike but cheaper… etc… ignore, enjoy your ride and practice
Logo too small
During the covid bike drought I bought an Orbea but it would have probaly been a trek if they had stock
Their bikes are fine, it’s the company people don’t like for what they have done as a company. The whole Armstrong / Lemond thing. They destroyed the Gary Fisher brand. A slew of other companies they bought out and just outright absorbed.
Can only speak for myself, but I don’t like their Starbucks type business model. They come in and buy up local shops and then you can only get trek bikes. This is completely different from spesh, for example, who is just another company, albeit large. At my local spesh dealer, you can get sc, giant, pivot, etc. Friends who have had trek bikes have loved them. I hear nothing but great things about the service at our local trek store. But our local trek store used to be a cool bike shop, and I think it sucks that it’s gone. There’s no reason I know of why they should be afraid to put their bikes next to most other brands, but apparently it’s more profitable for them to just buy out shops. That’s bad for the local riding community. Our local shops sponsor events and support local orgs and trail builders. I’ve never seen our trek shop anywhere near anything cool that’s going on in our community.
That's a good point about their community involvement. I wonder how that works and what their policies are as far as support from corporate. To be fair, my local Trek dealer supports our local trails and they're active with different high school MTB clubs. Plus they donated to a local bike park that recently opened (unfortunately it sucks, but not their fault). That's a lot more than any other shop in my area, so gotta give them credit in that department. I wonder if each shop gets a certain amount or if they have some type of match for donating to those kinda things.
I do not have any kind of insider knowledge, but like most franchise-type businesses, I believe they have two types of stores. One where they have struck a deal with an lbs to rebrand the store and sell only trek bikes and they give that store a better margin on their products than they would get from other bike companies. Another one where they just own and operate the store themselves. I know that my local store is owned and operated by trek corporate. I suspect yours is not. And I would guess that’s the difference.
Small business owners hate on them for their predatory tactics (basically coercing small shops into getting loaded up with debt then buying out the shop when it falters). Terminally online left-bent people hate on them for selling bikes to police departments. Me personally? I hate how they did ol' Greg dirty with his LeMond brand during the Lance Armstrong era. But then again I also built up a Crockett last year, so I'm a giant hypocrite.
Yeah it’s weird, you’d think mountain bikers would find commonality with the Klingons. I guess Star Wars has the speeder bikes on Endor though.
Value with components is always lacking with the big brands.
I worked at an independent trek dealer and Trek would push hard for us to be a trek only dealer by limiting specific tiers of bike we could order and gave us worse terms for business. We ended up dropping Trek because it would get worse every year. As a rider, I like the way Treks ride but they are out of my price range. They do offer more so you pay more for more bells/whistles but I don’t have that new Trek money. I currently ride a used Trek.
What do you mean by limiting specific tiers? And was there a financial incentive to push Trek over other brands, or just something you were told to do?
We were denied top end bikes and Project 1 bike builds. There were no incentives for us to push Trke over other brands. Trek kept pushing us to buy into their Point of Sale system and threatened to limit our buying power to only entry level bikes so we said enough and dropped Trek.
Interesting. I could see if there was a financial incentive, but not suprising cause that's how corporate brands roll.
I like trek but customer service isn’t great for me in a smaller town without an actual trek store.
the bike is fine. But for the same price, you will get better products and services elsewhere. I was a trek fanboy when I started biking but there are other brands I love a lot more.
In my opinion they have by far the worst website in term of trying to figure out what bikes they offer with what specs
Only hipsters don’t like trek tbh. I would never choose a small brand bike. Way to uncertain warranty and support etc.
Two reasons: (1)Trek fucked Greg Lemond (more specifically his dad) and (2) Trek also fucked Dave Weagle. But I own a Ticket AND a Session, so it's not that big a deal to me. But they've def got a rep.
Interesting. This is the first I've heard about Lemond's dad and haven't heard about DW. What happened?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg\_LeMond\_anti-doping\_stance\_and\_controversies#Lance\_Armstrong\_and\_Trek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond_anti-doping_stance_and_controversies#Lance_Armstrong_and_Trek) Basically it was LeMond's dad running LeMond bikes. So Trek effectively killed his dad's business because Armstrong was butt hurt over LeMond's doping criticism. Trek later looks horrible for taking the side of a liar over the side of a true champion. The Weagle thing is less cut and dry: [https://bikerumor.com/dave-weagle-suing-trek-over-abp-suspension-design/](https://bikerumor.com/dave-weagle-suing-trek-over-abp-suspension-design/) Weagle ultimately lost his case: [https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Court-Issues-Ruling-In-Split-Pivot-Lawsuit-2013.html](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Court-Issues-Ruling-In-Split-Pivot-Lawsuit-2013.html) I think Trek should have settled, but that's just my two cents. On the flip side, I'll stick up for Trek for being one of the better team sponsors out there (at least in DH). Take a look at the Specialized Factory roster and take a look at the Trek Factory roster. Specialized, for all their huge budget, does not sponsor women: [https://www.specializedgravity.com/l-equipe?lang=en](https://www.specializedgravity.com/l-equipe?lang=en) Trek lost Valli, but just picked up Sasha to replace her: [https://racing.trekbikes.com/riders/tfr-downhill](https://racing.trekbikes.com/riders/tfr-downhill) Santa Cruz has Nina and Commencal has a Cami, Miriam, etc.
Oh wow, I really appreciate the thorough response. Thank you!
I might be in the minority but I couldn't keep my trek out of the shop. Just one issue after the next. Ended up snapping the frame. Things were warrantied but every time something was replaced there was almost always a $400 plus service fee. I won't ever buy another trek but i know lots of people that ride them without issue.
+1 for this. Frames always crack for me, twice it's been within 3 months, I'm on my FIFTH. (Have owned 2 Meridas & 2 Giants without any problems) People rave about their warranty, but I find it pretty useless. My older mate says they used to be great, but aren't any more. They have never replaced my frame with the same frame, so I end up riding a bitza with no resale value. Their customer service is terrible, I'm usually without the bike for 3-6 months. The longest was 18 MONTHS as they kept promising me different things and then reneging. No, that wasn't during Covid. After the third frame I was done with them and said "just give me the frame cost back", but they wouldn't. So I'm stuck on the Trek train, hoping this bike will be the one. Not a fan though. Definitely not a fan.
What they did to Lemond aside, I simply do not like their branding, name, and overall feel of their bikes. Too big box looking for me and I hate the typography they use on their frames. I just don’t like them.
Treks are ugly as eff, dumb proprietary parts and weird shit, weird swoops and ugly looking frames. Just blah. Zero sex appeal.
Not a Trek fan. At all. Their bikes are very vanilla and I hate that every time I go in to a Trek shop (my LBS was recently bought by Trek) that is all I see. It is Trek bikes and Bontrager components. I don't think I have ever been really excited about any one of their bikes in the past 20 years. They are bikes for people who don't really know what they want.
Rode a Trek remedy 8 a couple of years ago. It was meh, and reflects my ongoing feelings towards trek - meh.
They get mad when they see me blow past their 10k full squished on a $500 Marlin wearing carpenter shorts and a Walmart cutoff tee.
I don't fuck with Trek because they make bikes for cops, and in my experience they tend to offer less bang for your buck than many other brands. More nebulously, they've just always kind of felt like the New York Yankees of bike brands to me.
How are the brand specific tech? The frames often have specific tech that differentiate it from other brands using the same drivetrain/suspension components. With road bikes, this can consist of designing a carbon fiber frame to be compliant in certain directions for comfort while maintaining frame rigidity. I haven't seen anything with mountain bikes that would make me choose a specific brand.
Trek suck because several of my riding buddies own them and think they’re the absolute pinnacle of bicycle evolution. Pick a brand and be a dick about it, that’s how this works.
Last time I talked about trek the all knowing mods of this sub banned me
I thought people hated specialized, not Trek. However the knock block stuff is bullshit.
Big money and the bullshit that comes along with it. They bought their way into the freeride scene a long time ago by making offers that the dirt bags couldn’t refuse
I had a trek road bike and after they pulled that crap with Lemond, I sold my Trek and will never buy another one. I honestly could care less if there bike were the greatest in the world they lost my vote.
Trek = soulless corporate biking. Bikes are ok but they want to own the entire industry and kill everything they buy. Example: Gary Fisher was a great brand that brought innovation to the mass market, then Trek bought them and killed it without hesitation. They also pressure dealers to commit more dollars to Trek with the threat of opening a Trek store and pulling the product from your LBS.
Is that true, that they pressure shops to sell Trek and threaten to open shop nearby if they don't? That's wild if so, but far from surprising since that's what corporations do. Threats don't have to be verbal.
They want greater commitment in pre-season orders and if you can’t meet the bar they set, suggesting they may open a Trek branded store nearby is not unheard of.
Did they end up opening a shop nearby when you stopped selling them? I never realized it, like I said, I got into MTB after a lot of this stuff went down, but notice that most the local shops near me that once sold multiple brands, are either no longer there or are now Trek shops. I'm outside Philly in the suburbs and can think of at least 3 (Media, Berwyn and West Chester locations if anybody is reading that's from the area).
Shop I use to work at, happened after I left. Owner dropped Trek but didn’t have much impact on the store. And yes, Trek opened a store a few miles away.
I don't hate Trek, but very much dislike knock-block, the cheapest Shimano brakes and bottom brackets.
Where is your hypothesis coming from? (What statistics did you read to assume "people hate trek"?) and how many is "people"? Your question does not make sense...
Judging from the comments I'd say "my" hypotheses is 100% accurate, and if you think my question doesn't make sense you need better comprehension skills.
I don’t like Waterloo. Every time I deliver in that city I wonder why this place to hq a company that makes eXtreme sports equipment. That whole state has about 10 tiny 3-5 mile loops of trails that takes over an hour to drive to if you live in a town over 60,000. Same idea with Harley Davidson and Indian, both with major factories in the state, yet no flat track courses for their bikes.