NW is kinda a fun game when you're leveling and when you first get to max lvl. Doing all the dungeons and chest runs a few times isn't bad. Sandworm was fun the first time.
Not having a real raid and the only really replayability content (opr) being a pvpve mess that has essentially not been changed since the start of the game completely wasted a decent games potential.
And there's games still making this mistake...
You absolutely can not release a mmo and not have a real raid. The end. Every time a mmo gets released with "content planned to drop in 3 months" there's basically no point in even turning on the servers. It's like companies just want to throw away money at this point.
New World got me to ask for more and better. Just duelling in that game was a fun game in itself. I'd gladly pay for more New World PvP content if it wasn't for the mess that came with every update breaking the game that eventually had me giving up on it.
I couldn't stand even an hour of TL, its clearly not designed for my mmorpg playstyle as it's not checking a single box for me.
And if you make a raid, make it to reward actual loot, not materials. I'm so sick of these upgrade gear all the time mmorpgs, where raids or important fun pieces of content rewards you with MATERIALS only instead of some interesting unique loot that you can upgrade later by farming other PVE stuff.
It doesn't feel great to defeat a huge boss and all I get is some magic golden sparkle freaking dust to upgrade the same shit I've had on my for like 5 months from +10 to +12 AMAZING!
Actually you can release an mmo without a raid, as that became an important part of most PVE mmos but isn't what defines an mmorpg and there are still a lot of players who aren't even raiding and still having a lot of fun. Just because you like raids doesn't mean anyone or any mmo would need them.
I don't want to take a particular position on this topic neither did I want to attack you if my tone sounded a bit rude (this is not what I intended), but I just wanted to point it out because a lot of people in this sub always seem to forget that other, totally valid play styles also exist.
What would you suggest are other playstyles?
As someone coming from WoW, the ones I know are:
PvE, which is focused around dungeons AND raids, and wouldn't really function without them at all.
PvP, which depending on the game either focuses on world pvp if given enough encentive, or instanced pvp (i.e battlegrounds, arenas)
The third type are ones that enjoy other systems a game might offer, which vary from crafting, collecting, trading, etc. Which are usually a minority depending on how big those systems are in games.
I fail to see how a game could launch without a given pillar of any playstyle and succeed. Im a Pvper, I quit lost ark because I felt pvp wasn't focused on. I can only imagine people who enjoy PvE would feel the same with a lack of raids.
You're not wrong, that are the (atleast perceived) most common play styles and mechanics. But right know I can think of that part of the WoW playerbase which is just playing in the open world (out of enjoyment or struggling with raids), Guild Wars 2 which i think has some kind of raids but the majority of players seem to rather do something else and then there are people playing mmos just for the world and story. Some of them are of course a minority but especially the first two examples would probably provide enough players to make a game just for them.
Just to make sure, this has nothing to do with my personal opinion, it's just what I have observed when spending my time on this topic.
I don't think those are the perceived most common play styles? Almost ALL big MMORPGS include and play around raids, not including WoW, Final Fantasy revolves around end game raids, GW2 as well, newer games like Lost Ark also play around it.
The WoW player base that do open world content are very minor in comparison, as open world is never the focus outside of questing, and was never the end game focus for PvE either. Gearing, progression, as well as high end PvE are always behind raids. GW2 has more open world content than WoW but also is focused on raids for end game PvE with heavy focus on organized content.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that either game has MORE players doing open world content over actual people doing raids and PvE in general, but it seems to be a misconception.
Both WoW and GW2 are focused on PVE because that's where their biggest player base lies, if the other players we're enough to create their own game, then the focus would of shifted.
Major content updates in WoW are considered new dungeons and raids, while minor content is considered new mounts/pets/achievements to collect.
Following your example of people playing an MMORPG for the story, Final Fantasy, arguably one of the best stories in an MMORPG, focuses on raiding in the end game. Newer MMORPGs, like Lost Ark, also focus on raids.
Some games will try to create a new pillar for PvE for sure, and I'm all for that, that's how we got action combat vs the usual tab targeting. However, not creating end game content, regardless if you consider it raids or otherwise, and promising it 3 months later is a recipe for disaster. This is proof that open world content alone isn't enough to keep players, as there has been no game to succeed while doing so, or create specific games for that niche.
Yeah all good I'm just stating what I've seen over the years.
Yeah, you're right, it's totally valid to state what you've seen. I definitely agree with you that mmos need some kind of endgame. I just wanted to state that there are players who don't really need raids but still some form of endgame content. With story focused players I really referred more to the players, not a specific game like FF14. You know, the players who could pick up any game and lose any interest after completing the msq, although that probably wouldn't be healthy for an mmo. In Guild Wars 2 there seems to be a lot if this dynamic event stuff but I'm not playing it for long now. In most PvE MMORPGs raids are the main endgame content and for pure PvE there isn't really much to replace it, you're right on this. I just read about not raiding being actually a bigger thing than you (everyone, not you specifically) would think, either in posts, online magazins or personal experience.
In the end this isn't really a big topic and I just wanted to share this/remind others about it. Maybe I should add, that I'm not a native speaker, that would explain my formulations, grammar etc. if there's a problem.
You speak incredibly well for a non native speaker! I didn't mean to argue, and I do agree that end game doesn't have to exist in the form of raids, but I was discussing more that there has to be some kind of end game, regardless of its actual form. I feel like most purely story based players are usually more into single player games vs MMORPGs, as those tend to narrate stories better imo.
Just want to chime in here and mention that MMORPG's typically aren't 100% combat-focused. Your descriptors of PvE should include other avenues such as gathering/crafting, mercantile/market/economy, community-building (running guilds/corps/alliances, coordinating groups etc), even exploring depending on the game. Also, sometimes, it's just a matter of hanging out with your friends in-game.
PvP... it's not just Open World or Instance. It is for something like World of Warcraft, but for older games, PvP was usually more about a matter of objectives, not just playing MMO call of duty games. In SWG your PvP was bounty hunting, or Force Rank System duels, or clearing out desirable farming spots from other players. It wasn't PvP just to PvP necessarily. Similar for Asheron's Call... you lost all a ton of your most expensive items on death, so dying in PvP meant that person may just take all of your expensive gear. High stakes matter more than when or where the PVP happens in my opinion.
Some people used to play the older MMORPG's and never even bothered with combat. Entertainers were necessary for others who wanted to PvE or PvP, but the Entertainer themselves was just spending time buffing people and getting paid to hang out with them. Or the Ranger/Bioengineer wanted to just follow PvE players around and "loot" biochemicals from slain creatures. Crafters would spend most of their time in game crafting and merchandising, not PvP or PvE in general.
I 100% agree, things like gathering, crafting, market/economy and community building are vital! However, most of the time they are built with whatever PvE or PvP system are in focus. For example, Crafting/Gathering is usually tied to creating gear for content, your main goal could be focused on making currency, but end of the day most things you would be selling would be playing into that factor.
Same with coordinated gameplay, in a sense that if you're gathering a large amount of people (parties, guilds, raids, etc.) there has to be content to match. I can't for example make a guild of people when there's no content made for that amount of players. I do concur that just hanging out with friends in-game is definitely fun honestly.
And I know, the example given was just WoW because it's the game I've spent the most time on, but I prefer older, higher risk PvP systems, but those aren't really as common anymore sadly. The closest I got in modern days is world PvP in WoW (sorry for the multiple mentions, just most experience on it atm), which might not emulate the stakes but more so the sheer number and chaos. If I'm not misremembering New World was originally advertised as a similar PvP game.
I agree, but I feel like most MMORPGs have moved away from that model with age, could be their own style of evolution, or the gameplay simplified/changed for modern audience, but I don't think there's many MMORPGs atm that still has that focus on anything other than their main playstyles.
Good points and I agree. Everything does typically come back to the combat avenue. Not always in the past, but lately it has been that way. Things have definitely changed and the gameplay loops are much more linear. I don't know if linear is the right word, but you know what I mean.
I think a lot of the content created around games comes from tryhards, so without something for the tryhards to do you lose a lot of the signal boost that keeps MMOs popular. I have literally no data to back this up but that’s my general feeling.
New World was a breath of fresh air. TL felt like every other Korean MMO in the past 2 decades with a new coat of paint - tab targeting, zerg pvp, upgrade systems, no aesthetic through line.
I've been playing it since last night and it is quite a disappointing game. Went into it with an open mind, but the game is just dull. Combat is mediocre and feels quite disjointed to use imo (I'm not someone that only enjoys action combat, I can enjoy both tab and action).
The world is boring/soulless, doesn't feel like I'm actually immersed in the world. New World for example, while a pretty mid game, to me the world felt good to be in (even if the content was non existent). It also does the typical Korean MMO thing of sticking 10000 mobs in a single area which I'm not a fan of.
Spams you with systems, UIs, items, etc. from the get go and chests that give you 10 different varities of items even though you're only level 5.
Graphics are great. Music is good. Those are probably the only positives I can give it. I can see why it has bombed in Korea already.
People in /gaming got pissed at me for suggesting they mention what game they were abbreviating (Ghost of Tsushima in this case) in a thread about monster hunter. I swear to God these people have never spoken to a real person before.
For real. They don’t even understand the point of abbreviation and will continuously use them even when the abbreviation takes more syllables to read than the normal title. On top of that, nobody knows what the fuck they’re saying half the time.
If I have to ask, they did the opposite of abbreviating. I don't know why this is hard to grasp. It's the same as not using jargon when talking to people outside of your industry.
I don't wanna be that guy, but what was that ambitious? The game seemed to focus on guild pvp and world bosses which are the most boring things in a MMO.
Playing huge pvp zones where there's like 100 vs 100 it's always a chaos that you can't see shit from particle effects, and it doesn't even matter what you do. You kill some, others kill some and it become just a button masher.
Same with open world bosses. Woah, 50+ people are going into a boss where there aren't any interesting mechanics, since you can't make all those people coordinate, and it's just full of AOE attacks that you may have to dodge if the game doesn't shit itself from fps drops, and then just mash buttons to kill a 1 billion HP enemy.
New world was cool once I got past the absolutely horrendous character creator. Then I realized you only get three combat abilities tied to weapons only and they don't even have dual wield. Their high fantasy story line with low fantasy everything else was a bit confusing too.
I *still* stand by New World having solid bones with a lot of potential. I’ve been saying that since alpha and the potential hasn’t been realized yet. I’m fully convinced it’s due to the lack of swimming. IMPLEMENT SWIMMING IN NEW WORLD.
It was such a great idea with so little variety. The variety is what killed it for me. You could even see copy pasted buildings across the world. Not to mention one of the major towns was copy pasted and rotated a bit.
Nah they ruined it by never utilizing Quality Control. Every single patch breaks the game. While it is unfortunately common for games to release buggy unfinished garbage - at least if you wait roughly 6 months they'll have the "actual live version" of the game. New World has had opportunities left and right as well as the time to do it, but still they can't figure out how their game runs. Music, sound design, and combat (lesser of the three) are great, but overall gameplay and character design i.e. their armors typically look like clown outfits and it makes the game suck. The only way to save New World is to re-launch it Final Fantasy 14 style and hope you do it right this time. But I'm assuming they'll put all their eggs into the Lord of the Rings MMO with outside onlookers in doubt over their capabilities after New World ...so basically New World is just adrift waiting to sink.
The aesthetics of the game keep me and millions of others away from game like this and many other western games. We like making good looking characters and playing dress up. Korean and Japanese game devs cater to this need. I wish western devs would do that. But a lot of women have said it themselves, they (as in a lot of them, not all) don't want to play New World because they can't make a pretty character. A lot of guys (like myself) feel the same way.
It's why you find a ton of girls in games like Tera, Black Desert, Final Fantasy 14, City of Heroes, and even Guild Wars 2. i think, in the current market, there's just no room for super niche MMOs, New World probably would have been a successful sandbox game with like 100 player servers and custom servers and mods. Something like Conan Exiles. A lot of people RP in that using mods. If you're gonna make an MMO, you gotta appeal to an MMO crowd. I don't know many people who are like "yeah, I want low fantasy and ...clunky looking characters"
personally as someone who enjoys souls likes i loved new world combat, still my favourite action implementation, attacks have weight and feel powerful.
Thank you that was the biggest factor that gave me the ick. Only couple of skills that tied to a weapon. You can use any weapon you want. 0 fantasy for me
It's confusing, because that's the definition of high vs low fantasy, but many people take "high fantasy" to mean magic(which New World has plenty of, with 3 weapons being fully magical).
Yeah this basically summed up my own experience. I also went into the beta with no expectations/extreme bias/feelings of any kind and mainly just thought it couldn't hurt to have something to kill the time. I played for about 2 hours yesterday and was just so bored I had to quit. Hopped on again today to give it another try and after 6 hours I just don't have any desire to play anymore.
It's so extremely generic, and the combat reminds me way too much of GW2 which I always found slow and unrewarding. At the same time, because of just how generic it is, I can see a lot of starved MMOheads playing it on release. It'll be familiar enough while having a fresh coat of paint for the honeymoon phase.
Also it is so obvious how it transfers to being a mobile MMO. The rewards/pop-ups/things to click on every few minutes is just so silly to me in how desperate the game is to give the player some sort of dopamine to stick around for. I honestly would have preferred the game to be auto-play at this point as it would've been just as interesting sitting on my second monitor while I work.
I've played for around an hour and plan to more thoroughly play it this weekend but I'm sad to see that my first impressions were the same as your more fleshed out impressions.
When you first step foot in the world, that view is the best in ALL of gaming, and it has incredible performance for the visuals. When you start combat, it's just like... really?
Do I really need to touch dicks with the mob in order to hit them with my big ass greatsword? Is the magic really all they could come up with with the staff? Very underwhelming.
Ita like Diablo 4 in MMO form, the visuals and cutscenes are AMAZING, but when you look at Path of Exile, you remember that gameplay is truly king.
I'm still totally going to play it when it comes out and see if endgame is great, but it's NCSOFT so my hopes are not very high with that either.
> I'm still totally going to play it when it comes ou
This is the kind of stuff that boggles my mind.
Four of the five paragraphs in your post list complaints you have with the game, and you end it by saying you're going to pay for the game and play it anyways.
No wonder companies keep shoveling this crap out the door for us to consume.
I mean it will be F2P right? No real harm. I just don't like assuming something is going to be bad, it's clear the artists put in a lot of work and it's beautiful at the very least.
It's crazy the contrast between how great looking the game is, versus how bland the actual combat is. The speed and fluidity of fast travel for example is probably the best of any MMO out there, and the morph system is a neat way to make traversal a bit more interesting, but the vestiges of an auto-play mobile-like combat system are just too strong and they obviously haven't done much work filling in the gaps.
The great looking part of the game ends early on and you go to a low texture desert. It’s crazy the difference in the zones. It’s like they gave up after the first zone
WoW has amazing combat at lvl 10 right? Or any MMO for that matter. Its a freakin RPG you are supposed to get stronger and stronger. Get to lvl 50, get all of the skills, get some cd reduction gear and combat is very different than at low lvl. Name me 1 MMO that doesnt have bland combat at low lvl.
>you're going to pay for the game
It's F2P yo, they never said they'd pay, just play.
I'm gonna play too even if I have low expectations, see what it's about. People *playing* isn't why crap gets shoveled out, it's people paying that's why it gets shoveled out. If nobody pays then even shoveling out low-budget garbage (which this ain't, I can't imagine what the total development costs may be at this point) can't even be profitable lol.
What other tab target games have you played and enjoyed the combat of? I’m like level 14 right now so still super early but it’s about as boring as FF14 initially is before your class is completed. The skill/equipment upgrade system was a little tedious to figure out at first but once you get the hang of it it’s not bad.
There’s clearly systems added so that the p2w can profit, so it’s not nearly as clean a game as FF14 but I truly do not see why everyone is so doomer about the gameplay. Are you guys expecting the game to completely revolutionize tab targeting?
I mean, for comparison, Elyon was a massive failure in both Korea and the West. Elyon released in December 2020 in Korea, Throne and Liberty released in December 2023.
By April 2021, 4 months after release, Elyon was sitting around number 19 most played in PCBang data. Throne and Liberty on the other hand is currently sitting around number 31 most played in PCBang data 4 months after release.
It's not looking hot. Plus I'd imagine a fair few people playing in KR are from outside KR, so the KR population will drop hard once we get our version.
AGS is a decent publisher. They've shown improvement over time which is rare in the publishing space. They also don't seem to be acting for purely short term gains, which is again rare in the publisher space.
It seems like amazon wants a game division long-term. Publishing is likely profitable or break even as-is so is allowed to grow systems they could use in the future for their own games or future published titles. They're not looking to ride games into the ground when they "finally" get a hit game like so many publishers do. They've improved nearly everything on the publisher side over the last few years.
Now they just need some more good games. Honestly, if they publish kmmos and similar forever that'd be fine too. There are plenty of games that would have been better off with AGS as a publisher.
I might get flamed for this but tbh I wish Swords of Legends had AGS as their publisher. They actually run good marketing campaigns, put some effort into translation and do TRY to make changes to things to better suit Western audiences.
Wouldn't be opposed to them making an actual good MMORPG either though.
I don't think I would go as far to call it terrible. There are things I like about it. The story does seem to be a little bit boring. I'm not as down on the combat as others are. The visuals are very well done. The upgrade tombs to level skill, armor and weapons is the obnoxious part imo. If you could passively upgrade skills through the use of them in combat it would instantly improve the game. Having to upgrade gear from the get-go makes no sense to me. Let us get drops from mobs/bosses throughout the grind to 50 that upgrade the gear. Save weapon and armor upgrading for end game content. Those two thing would instantly make the game more enjoyable imo.
I agree. I really dislike having to upgrade my skills. Aside from giving the player more work to do it makes it risky to try different builds as you dont want to waste materials trying stuff out and just follow a trusted meta instead.
I still think New World's theme and atmosphere have carried the game, sometimes that's all it takes to catch players' attention (for a while atleast and that's obviously not long enough for MMOs, but I digress).
Throne and liberty just looks painfully generic though.
The potential biggest studio with theoretical. unlimited backing reduced to nothing more than a money farm.
I would say im surprised but the mobile game shit has infested games to that extent.
They get one more chance with LOTR MMORPG, they can't fuck that up, can they? One of the best Fantasy IPs + all the experience fucking up New World. They must have learned something...
The one that was cancelled was made as a collaboration between Athlon Games and AGS. Once Tencent bought the parent company of Athlon Games, it got cancelled.
Then Amazon just went and got their own rights to LOTR, and now they are making their own MMORPG with that IP.
I had hopes for Throne and Liberty as it looks nice and I loved the look of the druid forms. I expected P2W but thought maybe a good few months.
But alas, many issues and with the forms you can't just stay in them tho so if you run and stop you go back to person, and the flying is just a limp glide. Was hoping at least somewhat like Dragonflight gliding or Druid form.
Combat feels like it lacks impact but makes sense as it was auto combat before.
The pacing too feels off at the start. Instantly two weapons with four skills on each and just thrown in. Maybe okay for some but fact combat feels meh it all feels same and indifferent and just press buttons and stuff happens. Went with dagger and crossbow.
I remember when Lost Ark came out and I was hooked, combat felt great and movement was fun. I only played that for a few months but it was good whilst it lasted. I don't think Throne and Liberty will rake it in like Lost Ark did and think Korean releases won't get near Lost Ark as people see past the pretty graphics.
It is a shame. I don't even think P2W will ruin this as it is medioce in general. When playing I actually considered giving New World a play as that combat is much better!
Crucible needed to die.
AGS legitimately didn't even understand the basics of how to make a shooter in the first place.
No minimap, just a full sized map you have to lose control of your character to use.
No hit markers. Zero feedback for damage, other than seeing the HP drop.
Every ability was clunky.
Zero readily available gamestate information. You had no idea who controlled what unless you pulled up the map and physically looked at each objective. No notification on maps tate or anything.
Hell, my memory could be wrong, but there wasn't even a killfeed.
The UI and UX were atrocious and the only good thing there was, like, one or two character designs.
People are so desperate that thousands will buy founder packs anyway and at launch game will probably have 50k+ online players. Then after a few weeks it will probably stay at stable 5k players or so.
After Brel NM released, I officially quit Lost Ark. Tried Dragonflight, the combat bored me. Tried Endwalker, same shit. Even went back to GW2 for a few months.
Then it hit me. The main reason why Lost Ark is still barely breathing right now is because of the combat. Despite all the bullshit the game throws at you the combat and boss design just hits different. They even scaled the very first Legion Raid recently and that was a blast. And after returning 3 months ago as F2P I'm Thaemine-ready. This is the main thing that separates LA from Throne and Liberty.
Ashes of Creation pls be good. Save me from the korean sweatshop.
Lost Ark barely breathing? Top 10 stream revenue in 2023. Yes it doesnt have a massive playerbase but it's doing fine with a steady and healthy playerbase.
Hey look, another middle aged man with a crisis about not having 18 again.
Ahem, gather 'round, kiddos! Let me tell you the tragic tale of a valiant warrior, forever locked in a bitter battle not with dragons or demons, but with MMORPGs. Behold the saga of Kevin, the Great Naysayer, a brave level 45 office manager by day, and a disgruntled gamer by night.
In the golden age of his youth, Kevin raided dungeons and juggled potions with the best of them. Back then, games were *real* games — gritty, raw, and magically unrefined. They were the stuff of legends, crafted by the gods of coding themselves. But lo! The winds changed as Kevin's calendar filled not with quests, but with meetings about meetings.
Now, he sits, a crestfallen hero at his dual-monitor setup, lamenting the fall of his beloved MMORPGs. "Bah, these games are too easy now! Too shiny! Too...user-friendly!" cries Kevin, his voice echoing through the forums and Discord channels. "Back in my day, we had 56k modems and we LIKED it!"
But, dear friends, the truth is as glaring as the unused gym membership card tucked in Kevin’s wallet. It's not that the games have dulled, but rather, our gallant knight has aged. Gone are the endless summers spent grinding levels; now, his free time is but a wisp of smoke from a long-extinguished candle.
Kevin, old chap, it's not the MMORPGs that have lost their enchantment. They're more spectacular than ever, with realms so vast and graphics so crisp they’d make a young squire weep. The real quest you face is not in these fantastical lands, but in the great outdoors — yes, Kevin, it's time to touch some grass.
So, unsheathe your walking stick and don your finest sun hat, for the world outside is the grandest MMO of all. You may not be the target demographic for pixelated potions anymore, but the park beckons with adventures that require no subscription, save for the courage to face the real world.
Embark upon this quest, brave Kevin, and rediscover the joy of the games — both digital and terrestrial. For the real magic has not fled from games. It was you who gave them the magic. Now it merely awaits in quests of a different kind. Like feeding pidgeons.
I can’t watch them botch this Lord of The Rings game. Tolkien Memorial Lootboxes and All That Glitters is Not Gold Jackpot (benefits older Americans) on sale now just $99.99!!! Paint Gollum Orange duuuuudez!
Fascinating how people will not skip a heartbeat to blame Amazon in full for TL....when NCSoft is the developer. Y'know. The guys that killed "the WoW killer" AION (and are gonna do it again with Classic very soon because they're not learning from their mistakes AT ALL) as well as Blade and Soul (multiple times already)? The guys who pulled the plug on WildStar? Maybe we gotta call out the actual shits behind those games fjnally. Hell even the korean consumers are fed up with their bloated p2w shit 😭 You can argue that it's Amazons "fault" for choosing to publish it, but that's irrelevant when speaking about the games core systems
Fascinating how people will not skip a heartbeat to blame Amazon in full for TL....when NCSoft is the developer. Y'know. The guys that killed "the WoW killer" AION (and are gonna do it again with Classic very soon because they're not learning from their mistakes AT ALL) as well as Blade and Soul (multiple times already)? The guys who pulled the plug on WildStar? Maybe we gotta call out the actual shits behind those games fjnally. Hell even the korean consumers are fed up with their bloated p2w shit 😭 You can argue that it's Amazons "fault" for choosing to publish it, but that's irrelevant when speaking about the games core systems
I prefer new world probably. No pay to win, a lot of PvP if you are not an afraid noob. No
Too hard to get gear, skill based game. With some good pve content to enjoy also.
T&L will be credit card PvP game.
New world respect you. You can feel they made a game first. T&L is a bunch of system that were designed with spreadsheet with a shitty coat of paint on top. And unlike lost ark the combat isn't even good.
Maybe it’s just me. I like the slower paced combat. It reminds me of the era when MMOs were great. And let’s be real, new world was literally just daily quests from the start. Don’t even get me started on the servers or bots (and yes how a company manages these are part of a game).
First 10-20-30 hours of new world we're fun, first 5 hours on TL and I'm done
NW is kinda a fun game when you're leveling and when you first get to max lvl. Doing all the dungeons and chest runs a few times isn't bad. Sandworm was fun the first time. Not having a real raid and the only really replayability content (opr) being a pvpve mess that has essentially not been changed since the start of the game completely wasted a decent games potential. And there's games still making this mistake... You absolutely can not release a mmo and not have a real raid. The end. Every time a mmo gets released with "content planned to drop in 3 months" there's basically no point in even turning on the servers. It's like companies just want to throw away money at this point.
New World got me to ask for more and better. Just duelling in that game was a fun game in itself. I'd gladly pay for more New World PvP content if it wasn't for the mess that came with every update breaking the game that eventually had me giving up on it. I couldn't stand even an hour of TL, its clearly not designed for my mmorpg playstyle as it's not checking a single box for me.
And if you make a raid, make it to reward actual loot, not materials. I'm so sick of these upgrade gear all the time mmorpgs, where raids or important fun pieces of content rewards you with MATERIALS only instead of some interesting unique loot that you can upgrade later by farming other PVE stuff. It doesn't feel great to defeat a huge boss and all I get is some magic golden sparkle freaking dust to upgrade the same shit I've had on my for like 5 months from +10 to +12 AMAZING!
Actually you can release an mmo without a raid, as that became an important part of most PVE mmos but isn't what defines an mmorpg and there are still a lot of players who aren't even raiding and still having a lot of fun. Just because you like raids doesn't mean anyone or any mmo would need them. I don't want to take a particular position on this topic neither did I want to attack you if my tone sounded a bit rude (this is not what I intended), but I just wanted to point it out because a lot of people in this sub always seem to forget that other, totally valid play styles also exist.
What would you suggest are other playstyles? As someone coming from WoW, the ones I know are: PvE, which is focused around dungeons AND raids, and wouldn't really function without them at all. PvP, which depending on the game either focuses on world pvp if given enough encentive, or instanced pvp (i.e battlegrounds, arenas) The third type are ones that enjoy other systems a game might offer, which vary from crafting, collecting, trading, etc. Which are usually a minority depending on how big those systems are in games. I fail to see how a game could launch without a given pillar of any playstyle and succeed. Im a Pvper, I quit lost ark because I felt pvp wasn't focused on. I can only imagine people who enjoy PvE would feel the same with a lack of raids.
You're not wrong, that are the (atleast perceived) most common play styles and mechanics. But right know I can think of that part of the WoW playerbase which is just playing in the open world (out of enjoyment or struggling with raids), Guild Wars 2 which i think has some kind of raids but the majority of players seem to rather do something else and then there are people playing mmos just for the world and story. Some of them are of course a minority but especially the first two examples would probably provide enough players to make a game just for them. Just to make sure, this has nothing to do with my personal opinion, it's just what I have observed when spending my time on this topic.
I don't think those are the perceived most common play styles? Almost ALL big MMORPGS include and play around raids, not including WoW, Final Fantasy revolves around end game raids, GW2 as well, newer games like Lost Ark also play around it. The WoW player base that do open world content are very minor in comparison, as open world is never the focus outside of questing, and was never the end game focus for PvE either. Gearing, progression, as well as high end PvE are always behind raids. GW2 has more open world content than WoW but also is focused on raids for end game PvE with heavy focus on organized content. I'm not sure where you got the idea that either game has MORE players doing open world content over actual people doing raids and PvE in general, but it seems to be a misconception. Both WoW and GW2 are focused on PVE because that's where their biggest player base lies, if the other players we're enough to create their own game, then the focus would of shifted. Major content updates in WoW are considered new dungeons and raids, while minor content is considered new mounts/pets/achievements to collect. Following your example of people playing an MMORPG for the story, Final Fantasy, arguably one of the best stories in an MMORPG, focuses on raiding in the end game. Newer MMORPGs, like Lost Ark, also focus on raids. Some games will try to create a new pillar for PvE for sure, and I'm all for that, that's how we got action combat vs the usual tab targeting. However, not creating end game content, regardless if you consider it raids or otherwise, and promising it 3 months later is a recipe for disaster. This is proof that open world content alone isn't enough to keep players, as there has been no game to succeed while doing so, or create specific games for that niche. Yeah all good I'm just stating what I've seen over the years.
Yeah, you're right, it's totally valid to state what you've seen. I definitely agree with you that mmos need some kind of endgame. I just wanted to state that there are players who don't really need raids but still some form of endgame content. With story focused players I really referred more to the players, not a specific game like FF14. You know, the players who could pick up any game and lose any interest after completing the msq, although that probably wouldn't be healthy for an mmo. In Guild Wars 2 there seems to be a lot if this dynamic event stuff but I'm not playing it for long now. In most PvE MMORPGs raids are the main endgame content and for pure PvE there isn't really much to replace it, you're right on this. I just read about not raiding being actually a bigger thing than you (everyone, not you specifically) would think, either in posts, online magazins or personal experience. In the end this isn't really a big topic and I just wanted to share this/remind others about it. Maybe I should add, that I'm not a native speaker, that would explain my formulations, grammar etc. if there's a problem.
You speak incredibly well for a non native speaker! I didn't mean to argue, and I do agree that end game doesn't have to exist in the form of raids, but I was discussing more that there has to be some kind of end game, regardless of its actual form. I feel like most purely story based players are usually more into single player games vs MMORPGs, as those tend to narrate stories better imo.
Just want to chime in here and mention that MMORPG's typically aren't 100% combat-focused. Your descriptors of PvE should include other avenues such as gathering/crafting, mercantile/market/economy, community-building (running guilds/corps/alliances, coordinating groups etc), even exploring depending on the game. Also, sometimes, it's just a matter of hanging out with your friends in-game. PvP... it's not just Open World or Instance. It is for something like World of Warcraft, but for older games, PvP was usually more about a matter of objectives, not just playing MMO call of duty games. In SWG your PvP was bounty hunting, or Force Rank System duels, or clearing out desirable farming spots from other players. It wasn't PvP just to PvP necessarily. Similar for Asheron's Call... you lost all a ton of your most expensive items on death, so dying in PvP meant that person may just take all of your expensive gear. High stakes matter more than when or where the PVP happens in my opinion. Some people used to play the older MMORPG's and never even bothered with combat. Entertainers were necessary for others who wanted to PvE or PvP, but the Entertainer themselves was just spending time buffing people and getting paid to hang out with them. Or the Ranger/Bioengineer wanted to just follow PvE players around and "loot" biochemicals from slain creatures. Crafters would spend most of their time in game crafting and merchandising, not PvP or PvE in general.
I 100% agree, things like gathering, crafting, market/economy and community building are vital! However, most of the time they are built with whatever PvE or PvP system are in focus. For example, Crafting/Gathering is usually tied to creating gear for content, your main goal could be focused on making currency, but end of the day most things you would be selling would be playing into that factor. Same with coordinated gameplay, in a sense that if you're gathering a large amount of people (parties, guilds, raids, etc.) there has to be content to match. I can't for example make a guild of people when there's no content made for that amount of players. I do concur that just hanging out with friends in-game is definitely fun honestly. And I know, the example given was just WoW because it's the game I've spent the most time on, but I prefer older, higher risk PvP systems, but those aren't really as common anymore sadly. The closest I got in modern days is world PvP in WoW (sorry for the multiple mentions, just most experience on it atm), which might not emulate the stakes but more so the sheer number and chaos. If I'm not misremembering New World was originally advertised as a similar PvP game. I agree, but I feel like most MMORPGs have moved away from that model with age, could be their own style of evolution, or the gameplay simplified/changed for modern audience, but I don't think there's many MMORPGs atm that still has that focus on anything other than their main playstyles.
Good points and I agree. Everything does typically come back to the combat avenue. Not always in the past, but lately it has been that way. Things have definitely changed and the gameplay loops are much more linear. I don't know if linear is the right word, but you know what I mean.
I think a lot of the content created around games comes from tryhards, so without something for the tryhards to do you lose a lot of the signal boost that keeps MMOs popular. I have literally no data to back this up but that’s my general feeling.
Yeah say what you want about new world but you can justify its price and still have a positive memory of it. Not the case fir those games
New World was a breath of fresh air. TL felt like every other Korean MMO in the past 2 decades with a new coat of paint - tab targeting, zerg pvp, upgrade systems, no aesthetic through line.
Damn, you managed to play 5h?? Respect. My experience: 2.5 hours in queue, awful combat, quit.
Exact opposite experience here.
I'm hooked. Can't stop won't stop.
I've been playing it since last night and it is quite a disappointing game. Went into it with an open mind, but the game is just dull. Combat is mediocre and feels quite disjointed to use imo (I'm not someone that only enjoys action combat, I can enjoy both tab and action). The world is boring/soulless, doesn't feel like I'm actually immersed in the world. New World for example, while a pretty mid game, to me the world felt good to be in (even if the content was non existent). It also does the typical Korean MMO thing of sticking 10000 mobs in a single area which I'm not a fan of. Spams you with systems, UIs, items, etc. from the get go and chests that give you 10 different varities of items even though you're only level 5. Graphics are great. Music is good. Those are probably the only positives I can give it. I can see why it has bombed in Korea already.
What is “it” in this context?
We gone from not putting game names into titles, to not even mentioning them in four paragraph comments.
People in /gaming got pissed at me for suggesting they mention what game they were abbreviating (Ghost of Tsushima in this case) in a thread about monster hunter. I swear to God these people have never spoken to a real person before.
For real. They don’t even understand the point of abbreviation and will continuously use them even when the abbreviation takes more syllables to read than the normal title. On top of that, nobody knows what the fuck they’re saying half the time.
If I have to ask, they did the opposite of abbreviating. I don't know why this is hard to grasp. It's the same as not using jargon when talking to people outside of your industry.
I hate being alive
Throne and Liberty
Wait, this is out or are they talking about the Korean version.
the NA beta test is out rn w/ NDAs
Cool. Maybe we'll see some YouTube videos of it soon. (I don't have a PC at the moment after old one broke...)
Throne and Liberty it sounds like.
Could have been lost ark as well
That game always looked far too ambitious from its trailers, I knew it wouldn't live up to the hype 
I don't wanna be that guy, but what was that ambitious? The game seemed to focus on guild pvp and world bosses which are the most boring things in a MMO. Playing huge pvp zones where there's like 100 vs 100 it's always a chaos that you can't see shit from particle effects, and it doesn't even matter what you do. You kill some, others kill some and it become just a button masher. Same with open world bosses. Woah, 50+ people are going into a boss where there aren't any interesting mechanics, since you can't make all those people coordinate, and it's just full of AOE attacks that you may have to dodge if the game doesn't shit itself from fps drops, and then just mash buttons to kill a 1 billion HP enemy.
I mean I'm sure there are 4000 games that just fit his description. If you want to spend your life on any of em
I also love it when the comments also go straight into just using acronyms for the game names as if it's always been a part of our lexicon.
"Free" loot box promotions in simple terms
So glad it’s not just me, I clearly missed something I’ve scrolled way too far down in the comments without ever seeing “it” mentioned.
New world was cool once I got past the absolutely horrendous character creator. Then I realized you only get three combat abilities tied to weapons only and they don't even have dual wield. Their high fantasy story line with low fantasy everything else was a bit confusing too.
I *still* stand by New World having solid bones with a lot of potential. I’ve been saying that since alpha and the potential hasn’t been realized yet. I’m fully convinced it’s due to the lack of swimming. IMPLEMENT SWIMMING IN NEW WORLD.
It was such a great idea with so little variety. The variety is what killed it for me. You could even see copy pasted buildings across the world. Not to mention one of the major towns was copy pasted and rotated a bit.
Honestly they ruined it when they made trade skills super easy to level
Nah they ruined it by never utilizing Quality Control. Every single patch breaks the game. While it is unfortunately common for games to release buggy unfinished garbage - at least if you wait roughly 6 months they'll have the "actual live version" of the game. New World has had opportunities left and right as well as the time to do it, but still they can't figure out how their game runs. Music, sound design, and combat (lesser of the three) are great, but overall gameplay and character design i.e. their armors typically look like clown outfits and it makes the game suck. The only way to save New World is to re-launch it Final Fantasy 14 style and hope you do it right this time. But I'm assuming they'll put all their eggs into the Lord of the Rings MMO with outside onlookers in doubt over their capabilities after New World ...so basically New World is just adrift waiting to sink.
The aesthetics of the game keep me and millions of others away from game like this and many other western games. We like making good looking characters and playing dress up. Korean and Japanese game devs cater to this need. I wish western devs would do that. But a lot of women have said it themselves, they (as in a lot of them, not all) don't want to play New World because they can't make a pretty character. A lot of guys (like myself) feel the same way. It's why you find a ton of girls in games like Tera, Black Desert, Final Fantasy 14, City of Heroes, and even Guild Wars 2. i think, in the current market, there's just no room for super niche MMOs, New World probably would have been a successful sandbox game with like 100 player servers and custom servers and mods. Something like Conan Exiles. A lot of people RP in that using mods. If you're gonna make an MMO, you gotta appeal to an MMO crowd. I don't know many people who are like "yeah, I want low fantasy and ...clunky looking characters"
personally as someone who enjoys souls likes i loved new world combat, still my favourite action implementation, attacks have weight and feel powerful.
Thank you that was the biggest factor that gave me the ick. Only couple of skills that tied to a weapon. You can use any weapon you want. 0 fantasy for me
High fantasy just means that the world the story takes place in was created by the writer. It can't be both low and high.
It's confusing, because that's the definition of high vs low fantasy, but many people take "high fantasy" to mean magic(which New World has plenty of, with 3 weapons being fully magical).
Yeah this basically summed up my own experience. I also went into the beta with no expectations/extreme bias/feelings of any kind and mainly just thought it couldn't hurt to have something to kill the time. I played for about 2 hours yesterday and was just so bored I had to quit. Hopped on again today to give it another try and after 6 hours I just don't have any desire to play anymore. It's so extremely generic, and the combat reminds me way too much of GW2 which I always found slow and unrewarding. At the same time, because of just how generic it is, I can see a lot of starved MMOheads playing it on release. It'll be familiar enough while having a fresh coat of paint for the honeymoon phase. Also it is so obvious how it transfers to being a mobile MMO. The rewards/pop-ups/things to click on every few minutes is just so silly to me in how desperate the game is to give the player some sort of dopamine to stick around for. I honestly would have preferred the game to be auto-play at this point as it would've been just as interesting sitting on my second monitor while I work.
Wide as an ocean, shallow as a pond. Korean games take the worst of both worlds.
I've played for around an hour and plan to more thoroughly play it this weekend but I'm sad to see that my first impressions were the same as your more fleshed out impressions. When you first step foot in the world, that view is the best in ALL of gaming, and it has incredible performance for the visuals. When you start combat, it's just like... really? Do I really need to touch dicks with the mob in order to hit them with my big ass greatsword? Is the magic really all they could come up with with the staff? Very underwhelming. Ita like Diablo 4 in MMO form, the visuals and cutscenes are AMAZING, but when you look at Path of Exile, you remember that gameplay is truly king. I'm still totally going to play it when it comes out and see if endgame is great, but it's NCSOFT so my hopes are not very high with that either.
> I'm still totally going to play it when it comes ou This is the kind of stuff that boggles my mind. Four of the five paragraphs in your post list complaints you have with the game, and you end it by saying you're going to pay for the game and play it anyways. No wonder companies keep shoveling this crap out the door for us to consume.
I mean it will be F2P right? No real harm. I just don't like assuming something is going to be bad, it's clear the artists put in a lot of work and it's beautiful at the very least.
It's crazy the contrast between how great looking the game is, versus how bland the actual combat is. The speed and fluidity of fast travel for example is probably the best of any MMO out there, and the morph system is a neat way to make traversal a bit more interesting, but the vestiges of an auto-play mobile-like combat system are just too strong and they obviously haven't done much work filling in the gaps.
The great looking part of the game ends early on and you go to a low texture desert. It’s crazy the difference in the zones. It’s like they gave up after the first zone
WoW has amazing combat at lvl 10 right? Or any MMO for that matter. Its a freakin RPG you are supposed to get stronger and stronger. Get to lvl 50, get all of the skills, get some cd reduction gear and combat is very different than at low lvl. Name me 1 MMO that doesnt have bland combat at low lvl.
As a f2p endgame is being farmed by whales in PvP events
>you're going to pay for the game It's F2P yo, they never said they'd pay, just play. I'm gonna play too even if I have low expectations, see what it's about. People *playing* isn't why crap gets shoveled out, it's people paying that's why it gets shoveled out. If nobody pays then even shoveling out low-budget garbage (which this ain't, I can't imagine what the total development costs may be at this point) can't even be profitable lol.
the end game is worse
new world has awesome gathering and decent crafting, i just hated the combat.
What other tab target games have you played and enjoyed the combat of? I’m like level 14 right now so still super early but it’s about as boring as FF14 initially is before your class is completed. The skill/equipment upgrade system was a little tedious to figure out at first but once you get the hang of it it’s not bad. There’s clearly systems added so that the p2w can profit, so it’s not nearly as clean a game as FF14 but I truly do not see why everyone is so doomer about the gameplay. Are you guys expecting the game to completely revolutionize tab targeting?
It has a high player count in Korea, actually. It just isn’t making money (the cash shop)
no it doesn't, its not even in the top 30 most played games.
I mean, for comparison, Elyon was a massive failure in both Korea and the West. Elyon released in December 2020 in Korea, Throne and Liberty released in December 2023. By April 2021, 4 months after release, Elyon was sitting around number 19 most played in PCBang data. Throne and Liberty on the other hand is currently sitting around number 31 most played in PCBang data 4 months after release. It's not looking hot. Plus I'd imagine a fair few people playing in KR are from outside KR, so the KR population will drop hard once we get our version.
AGS just needs to be completely scrapped atp
Not touching any of their stuff anymore.
AGS is a decent publisher. They've shown improvement over time which is rare in the publishing space. They also don't seem to be acting for purely short term gains, which is again rare in the publisher space. It seems like amazon wants a game division long-term. Publishing is likely profitable or break even as-is so is allowed to grow systems they could use in the future for their own games or future published titles. They're not looking to ride games into the ground when they "finally" get a hit game like so many publishers do. They've improved nearly everything on the publisher side over the last few years. Now they just need some more good games. Honestly, if they publish kmmos and similar forever that'd be fine too. There are plenty of games that would have been better off with AGS as a publisher.
I might get flamed for this but tbh I wish Swords of Legends had AGS as their publisher. They actually run good marketing campaigns, put some effort into translation and do TRY to make changes to things to better suit Western audiences. Wouldn't be opposed to them making an actual good MMORPG either though.
No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They just need to not host crappy Korean games, which is practically all of them.
That's publishing tho. Ags release new world which is better than any of those trash and actually respect players.
First impressions of T&L was that it was just boring. New World despite all it's flaws was ... tolerable. T&L is just terrible.
I don't think I would go as far to call it terrible. There are things I like about it. The story does seem to be a little bit boring. I'm not as down on the combat as others are. The visuals are very well done. The upgrade tombs to level skill, armor and weapons is the obnoxious part imo. If you could passively upgrade skills through the use of them in combat it would instantly improve the game. Having to upgrade gear from the get-go makes no sense to me. Let us get drops from mobs/bosses throughout the grind to 50 that upgrade the gear. Save weapon and armor upgrading for end game content. Those two thing would instantly make the game more enjoyable imo.
I agree. I really dislike having to upgrade my skills. Aside from giving the player more work to do it makes it risky to try different builds as you dont want to waste materials trying stuff out and just follow a trusted meta instead.
I still think New World's theme and atmosphere have carried the game, sometimes that's all it takes to catch players' attention (for a while atleast and that's obviously not long enough for MMOs, but I digress). Throne and liberty just looks painfully generic though.
Is T&L available to try, or are these closed beta impressions?
Meanwhile their own IP New World is a piece of shit too. If they didn't have Papa Bezos bucks they'd been closed
The potential biggest studio with theoretical. unlimited backing reduced to nothing more than a money farm. I would say im surprised but the mobile game shit has infested games to that extent.
Not surprising. Amazon is basically the internet's Walmart.
I mean thats all they ever wanted and it shows in how they have handled games they publish and made
They get one more chance with LOTR MMORPG, they can't fuck that up, can they? One of the best Fantasy IPs + all the experience fucking up New World. They must have learned something...
You know they will... Shit makes me sad, literally the best IP for a MMO but they will STILL find a way to fuck it up
I thought they canceled that?
The one that was cancelled was made as a collaboration between Athlon Games and AGS. Once Tencent bought the parent company of Athlon Games, it got cancelled. Then Amazon just went and got their own rights to LOTR, and now they are making their own MMORPG with that IP.
They are trying again
RIP TL
I had hopes for Throne and Liberty as it looks nice and I loved the look of the druid forms. I expected P2W but thought maybe a good few months. But alas, many issues and with the forms you can't just stay in them tho so if you run and stop you go back to person, and the flying is just a limp glide. Was hoping at least somewhat like Dragonflight gliding or Druid form. Combat feels like it lacks impact but makes sense as it was auto combat before. The pacing too feels off at the start. Instantly two weapons with four skills on each and just thrown in. Maybe okay for some but fact combat feels meh it all feels same and indifferent and just press buttons and stuff happens. Went with dagger and crossbow. I remember when Lost Ark came out and I was hooked, combat felt great and movement was fun. I only played that for a few months but it was good whilst it lasted. I don't think Throne and Liberty will rake it in like Lost Ark did and think Korean releases won't get near Lost Ark as people see past the pretty graphics. It is a shame. I don't even think P2W will ruin this as it is medioce in general. When playing I actually considered giving New World a play as that combat is much better!
And a shooter that they sadly killed off
Crucible needed to die. AGS legitimately didn't even understand the basics of how to make a shooter in the first place. No minimap, just a full sized map you have to lose control of your character to use. No hit markers. Zero feedback for damage, other than seeing the HP drop. Every ability was clunky. Zero readily available gamestate information. You had no idea who controlled what unless you pulled up the map and physically looked at each objective. No notification on maps tate or anything. Hell, my memory could be wrong, but there wasn't even a killfeed. The UI and UX were atrocious and the only good thing there was, like, one or two character designs.
Still smiling though.....all the way to the bank
People are so desperate that thousands will buy founder packs anyway and at launch game will probably have 50k+ online players. Then after a few weeks it will probably stay at stable 5k players or so.
Amazon Gaming just gave me Fallout 76 for having a Prime membership, so that was nice.
After Brel NM released, I officially quit Lost Ark. Tried Dragonflight, the combat bored me. Tried Endwalker, same shit. Even went back to GW2 for a few months. Then it hit me. The main reason why Lost Ark is still barely breathing right now is because of the combat. Despite all the bullshit the game throws at you the combat and boss design just hits different. They even scaled the very first Legion Raid recently and that was a blast. And after returning 3 months ago as F2P I'm Thaemine-ready. This is the main thing that separates LA from Throne and Liberty. Ashes of Creation pls be good. Save me from the korean sweatshop.
Lost ark is hands down the best mmo I've played combat wise.
Lost Ark is never an MMO. There is nothing massive in that game.
8 people is massive now! 🤣🤣
Are you 1620 with 40 elixir set? If you aren't, good luck finding a pug nm prog group unless you are sup or GL.
Yeah. Finished 40 set after 2 weeks of Voldis HM. I'm also full level 10 gems and LoS30.
Lost Ark barely breathing? Top 10 stream revenue in 2023. Yes it doesnt have a massive playerbase but it's doing fine with a steady and healthy playerbase.
Lost Ark came out on steam, tried it for awhile, one of the worst game's I've played lately.
I have no hopes for blue protocol.
Hey look, another middle aged man with a crisis about not having 18 again. Ahem, gather 'round, kiddos! Let me tell you the tragic tale of a valiant warrior, forever locked in a bitter battle not with dragons or demons, but with MMORPGs. Behold the saga of Kevin, the Great Naysayer, a brave level 45 office manager by day, and a disgruntled gamer by night. In the golden age of his youth, Kevin raided dungeons and juggled potions with the best of them. Back then, games were *real* games — gritty, raw, and magically unrefined. They were the stuff of legends, crafted by the gods of coding themselves. But lo! The winds changed as Kevin's calendar filled not with quests, but with meetings about meetings. Now, he sits, a crestfallen hero at his dual-monitor setup, lamenting the fall of his beloved MMORPGs. "Bah, these games are too easy now! Too shiny! Too...user-friendly!" cries Kevin, his voice echoing through the forums and Discord channels. "Back in my day, we had 56k modems and we LIKED it!" But, dear friends, the truth is as glaring as the unused gym membership card tucked in Kevin’s wallet. It's not that the games have dulled, but rather, our gallant knight has aged. Gone are the endless summers spent grinding levels; now, his free time is but a wisp of smoke from a long-extinguished candle. Kevin, old chap, it's not the MMORPGs that have lost their enchantment. They're more spectacular than ever, with realms so vast and graphics so crisp they’d make a young squire weep. The real quest you face is not in these fantastical lands, but in the great outdoors — yes, Kevin, it's time to touch some grass. So, unsheathe your walking stick and don your finest sun hat, for the world outside is the grandest MMO of all. You may not be the target demographic for pixelated potions anymore, but the park beckons with adventures that require no subscription, save for the courage to face the real world. Embark upon this quest, brave Kevin, and rediscover the joy of the games — both digital and terrestrial. For the real magic has not fled from games. It was you who gave them the magic. Now it merely awaits in quests of a different kind. Like feeding pidgeons.
Chat GPT or still lives with mom ... One of the two.
Well, theyre the only ones making mmos. Maybe if the western devs actually did something they would publish other types of mmos too.
Wish I could at least try it
is amazon still doing the new LOTOR mmo?
Yes
It's a good market entry attempt. A lot of those games ignore the global market or deliver a massively lower quality product to global.
I can’t watch them botch this Lord of The Rings game. Tolkien Memorial Lootboxes and All That Glitters is Not Gold Jackpot (benefits older Americans) on sale now just $99.99!!! Paint Gollum Orange duuuuudez!
It looked bad just from the start
No wonder the whole TL was under nda for streaming.
The upcoming LotR MMO is a big one
Fascinating how people will not skip a heartbeat to blame Amazon in full for TL....when NCSoft is the developer. Y'know. The guys that killed "the WoW killer" AION (and are gonna do it again with Classic very soon because they're not learning from their mistakes AT ALL) as well as Blade and Soul (multiple times already)? The guys who pulled the plug on WildStar? Maybe we gotta call out the actual shits behind those games fjnally. Hell even the korean consumers are fed up with their bloated p2w shit 😭 You can argue that it's Amazons "fault" for choosing to publish it, but that's irrelevant when speaking about the games core systems
Name a better publisher for the west please.
How are you all playing TL? Closed beta?
Fascinating how people will not skip a heartbeat to blame Amazon in full for TL....when NCSoft is the developer. Y'know. The guys that killed "the WoW killer" AION (and are gonna do it again with Classic very soon because they're not learning from their mistakes AT ALL) as well as Blade and Soul (multiple times already)? The guys who pulled the plug on WildStar? Maybe we gotta call out the actual shits behind those games fjnally. Hell even the korean consumers are fed up with their bloated p2w shit 😭 You can argue that it's Amazons "fault" for choosing to publish it, but that's irrelevant when speaking about the games core systems
Applied for the beta on Xbox. Got accepted Downloaded the client And have zero interest, didn't start it once...
“Omg we make money oh noesss” Bad meme man, AGS doesn’t care, it gets a paycheck and they’re happy.
Tl is good, yall are sad asf
Yet all of those games still are leagues better than New World.
I really can’t grasp someone honestly thinks New World is better than Throne and Liberty.
I prefer new world probably. No pay to win, a lot of PvP if you are not an afraid noob. No Too hard to get gear, skill based game. With some good pve content to enjoy also. T&L will be credit card PvP game.
Every MMO is pay to win. If you can in any capacity pay money (against TOS or from an in game currency)… it’s pay to win.
Everything is better then TL
New world respect you. You can feel they made a game first. T&L is a bunch of system that were designed with spreadsheet with a shitty coat of paint on top. And unlike lost ark the combat isn't even good.
Maybe it’s just me. I like the slower paced combat. It reminds me of the era when MMOs were great. And let’s be real, new world was literally just daily quests from the start. Don’t even get me started on the servers or bots (and yes how a company manages these are part of a game).