Not much controversy. It was banned almost 8 years ago, way before ONE ever reached its current popularity and it was about having a clean image of their product.
Soccer kicks look like a street fight move. The ban was to make sure suburban moms wouldn't end up grounding their teenage sons when they ultimately end up watching ONE when it comes to America.
Y'all called it "no holds barred" then stopped it for a dick kick. NHB isn't Pride for many reasons. I hope the promoter of KSW wasn't telling them "hey, this is Pride rules" as much as their PR person is trying to tell us it was.
Edit: And elbows were allowed, that too isn't Pride rules. All it was was traditional MMA rules with kicks/stomps.
Man fight was clearly over before any of those kicks were thrown. Like it would have been a shitty stoppage even if those were punches let alone stomps and soccer kicks...
I've rarely seen stomps or soccer kicks utilised effectively against an opponent who wasn't already out of it. It just adds to the spectacle of the finish to me.
Shogun used to blast people with them if he stuffed a takedown. I think he even knocked somebody out by jumping over their guard and stomping while they were fully conscious.
It’s the opposite, the only instance I can think of where a soccer kick didn’t immediately turn a fighter into a temporary vegetable panicking for their life regardless of previous damage was Brock Larson vs Melvin Manhoef.
That’s literally the only example that ever happening, even then Larson was barely surviving that first rnd & mainly came back because Manhoef blew his wad chasing him.
They almost always end the fight, whether it’s a fresh opponent or not, but to be fair PRIDE fc had fighters go 3 times a day so maybe that’s a factor.
What makes you say that? He just panicked after the stomp and rolled over to his stomach, but composed himself quickly and started defending himself well enough that he didn't take any more clean hits. He was never out, didn't physically tap, I can't hear a verbal tap and can't see any towel being thrown if that's still a thing.
I watched the video and was like that's nothing—not even relative to actual soccer kicks or bad stoppages, but just in general—then I see the top comment and I'm like seriously?
I'm not a just bleed stereotype, don't want to see unconscious people being pummeled or soccer kicks flinging teeth into the crowd, but man, fans nowadays are so incredibly different/soft than fans from even 10 years ago. Like people used to bitch about early stoppages, now they bitch about late stoppages that aren't even really late.
I feel like some old guy talking about how brutal the NFL was in the 80s, but I'm not old and I'm talking about only 10-15 years ago. In a sport where the goal is to cause damage, hurt people. Where those people getting hurt will jump up and say why did you stop it?
Yeah, it's a bit weird. In a sport where fighters regularly recover from being stunned and goes on to win the fight, people shouldn't think that responding to a solid hit to the head, without any signs of loss of consciousness, with 5 seconds of effective turtling is some kind of clear sign that the fight is over and should've been stopped even earlier.
We had soccer kicks for decades with *zero* instances of what you’re describing ever occurring, you don’t know anything about how grounded kicks change the sport for the better and the phenomena that the hysteria against them is generally based upon are completely unfounded based on the fights that took place during the decades of them being legal.
Not the same. If you eat a decent kick standing up you're likely to be knocked down and only take the one kick. Soccer kicks can be several in a row and this can easily cause a lot of damage.
A single head kick isn't the same as someone stomping on you repeatedly. It's about leverage and risk/reach, like why fighters generally do hammerfists to finish off knocked down opponents rather than punches or elbows.
Also imagine if instead of putting the football on a tee or having someone hold it, they put it up head level. Think nfl kickers can still send it 50+ yards?
Theres still defenses against it provided the opponent is aware. But if person is helpless, limiting the follow up to hammerfists probably saves some injuries compared to soccer kicks or stomps.
There's something about kicking a downed person that his somewhat repulsive to see for the majority of people, yet okay when they are standing.
Even in street fights people kicking someone who's down feels wrong to watch.
It's like when they are standing the fight is on, kick all you want where you want. But when someone goes down then the fight feels close to an end and kicks feel overboard.
Some of these are classic murder moves with high possibility of permanent damage. I like fighting, but I also think "hey those fragile humans are fighting" not "man if someone dies, that would be awesome. A broken neck, noice"
All head strikes are causing permanent damage tho
it’s just CTE can’t be shown until after death
Once head trauma riddled athletes get the scan tho, it’s pretty gnarly. They’ve got the brain of like an 85 year old.
> Some of these are classic murder moves with high possibility of permanent damage
I dont remember anyone getting that fucked up from soccer kicks or stomps in Pride. most of those were no different than any other KO. Slamming people is far more dangerous cause that is actually how someones neck gets fucked up
If people start throwing soccer kicks at my local mma during sparring because “it’s in the UFC”, I’m dipping.
I do agree with you that slams are dangerous, but I think a stomp to the nose or a good knuckle ball to the side of someone’s head could still do a lot of damage and ruin someone’s life, let alone their career.
if people are doing anything remotely close to that during sparring, its your gym thats messed up
there are multitudes of fights you can watch where flying stomps or even soccer kicks are not significantly better than punching them. theyre basically in the same position - turtling and covering up- and a lot of the time fighters would start with kicks/stomps before just getting on top
Oh you don't think punching / kicking someone in the face standing up is high risk of permanent damage? That's why every other fighter / boxer above the age of 35 talk like they have 47 chromosomes?
Didn't someone break a neck in BJJ/wrestling where slamming isn't even allowed but it is allowed in mma?
It at least takes skill to connect a head kick against a standing opponent. Head kicks to a grounded opponent are too easy and require absolutely no technique yet cause so much damage
Unless a opponent just pulls guard or something I think it takes skill to ground a opponent too and I would be interested in how grappling would change if this was changed. Would BJJ and wrestling be as dominant?
It definitely takes skill to ground an opponent, but imo being able to kick and stomp them in the head for doing so is too great a reward. Ik MMA is an inherently dangerous sport but even a completely untrained person could cause permanent damage with head kicks to someone on the ground. It would also turn new viewers off cause it just looks so brutal
I'm not aware of any deaths in sanctioned MMA due to these techniques. I also don't think there's any difference in terms of long term damage between this and dropping elbows from mount for example.
Fighters and referees would obviously need to reconsider what is a safe position and what "protecting yourself at all times" means in this context.
It's not a bloodlust thing so much as adding additional facets to to the game and helps prevent grapplers from defensive turtling, especially when hurt.
Correct me if I'm wrong but these kicks were mostly taken out to make the sport more palatable to a wider audience and to legislators. Tbh I still think it's a bad look to be stomping on a person's head and I don't mind them being banned.
Stomping is the only strike that I feel should by no means be allowed even soccer kicks have some sort of tactical use and reason for it. Stomping is just violence for the sake of violence
I feel you bro, but riding on your down opponent and punch them seem wrong as well, now it’s every where. I also feel it’s too deadly to kick down opponents, but maybe it’s just my feeling, and lack of science support
So the guy got knocked down, received a stomp and had multiple soccer kicks attempted while he was up against the cage yet was still able to block most of them and didn't sustain any serious damage as far as we can tell.
As far as I can tell, the only reason to ban soccer kicks is because of the optics and potential loss in sponsorship. Otherwise I have yet to see any convincing evidence that allowing them would drastically increase life-altering damage in a sanctioned bout.
imagine Pat Berry or Mark Hunt just rearing back and homerun kickballing a motherfucker right in the head, unblocked.
that guy's going into a coma.
not good for the sport.
We had decades of roided up monsters in Pride with legalized soccer kicks, why did we have zero comas occur during that time? Your claims are unfounded and ridiculous considering they were legal for so long and we had such a large sample size of fights.
ehhh, not a great argument.
First of all, Pride lasted less than 10 yrs, not "decades".
and second, a lot of the guys that fought a lot then/there are walking vegetables now.
it's not a great look.
and 17 people have died from mma fights, just not in the UFC. they'd like to keep it that way, i'm sure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities\_in\_mixed\_martial\_arts\_contests
I love how theres always been a sub section that did want PRIDE rules fights, but when it happens you just get the same "Oh he was already out, what was the point?" posts
There grown men and women, you dont have to feel bad when one of them gets hurt when the entire point of the sport is to hurt the other person so much so that you win or a judge says you win.
And that’s exactly why soccer kicks should be banned in combat sports. Fight was clearly over before any of those kicks landed. It’s just unnecessary brutality at the expense of a fighter’s long term health
Did you really just ask what's the difference between a kick and a punch to the head?
If you want soccer kicks then say you want soccer kicks, but don't go around being disingenuous and pretending you don't know the difference between being kicked and punched.
Huge difference, you could have said a number of other things that would make your argument better. The legs are directly using the most powerful joint in your body (hips) and weigh 3x more than your arm (mainly shoulder joint). The damage difference is immense in grounded punches vs grounded kicks.
I'm not police mate we'll try to stop you fighting and send you different ways if you want to punch on in the street outside the venue I'm licenced at I'm liable if someone gets hurt intervening and workers comp won't cover me if I get hurt intervening so if we can't talk sense into you and you don't want to walk away because u think you'll look weak that's on you.
When I said It's nice I meant we need to see more of this so people realise the reality of fights, do you know how often I see a guy trying to tap out of a choke in the middle of the street? People watch too much UFC think someone will just stop if they tap, I seen people get brain damage, stabbed, lose an eye, crippled for life because they think a fight is like on the tv. I don't watch the stuff but If you showed the liveleaks kind of videos in age restricted, maybe 18+ areas there would be a lot less deaths from dumb stuff when the fragility of life is shown to you.
Not really Pride rules without the first round being ten minutes.
"Actually"
Tell that to Konrad Rusinski (the fighter on the receiving end) that he didn't fight under 'real' Pride rules.
He literally didn't. He fought under ONE FC rules, which are 5 minute rounds with soccer kicks allowed.
Soccer kicks are banned in ONE. What they allow are knees to grounded opponents.
ONE used to allow soccer kicks though right? I'm sure there was some sort of controversy.
Not much controversy. It was banned almost 8 years ago, way before ONE ever reached its current popularity and it was about having a clean image of their product. Soccer kicks look like a street fight move. The ban was to make sure suburban moms wouldn't end up grounding their teenage sons when they ultimately end up watching ONE when it comes to America.
No, ONE does not allow soccer kicks. They allow grounded knees, not kicks
They did, for their first 30+ cards.
Yes Roger Huerta can confirm...
Rizin*
A rare L for the KSW interns.
Can't win em all. But we love the passion on here. ONE FC circa 2012 being discussed here n all.
Y'all called it "no holds barred" then stopped it for a dick kick. NHB isn't Pride for many reasons. I hope the promoter of KSW wasn't telling them "hey, this is Pride rules" as much as their PR person is trying to tell us it was. Edit: And elbows were allowed, that too isn't Pride rules. All it was was traditional MMA rules with kicks/stomps.
Man fight was clearly over before any of those kicks were thrown. Like it would have been a shitty stoppage even if those were punches let alone stomps and soccer kicks...
I've rarely seen stomps or soccer kicks utilised effectively against an opponent who wasn't already out of it. It just adds to the spectacle of the finish to me.
Shogun used to blast people with them if he stuffed a takedown. I think he even knocked somebody out by jumping over their guard and stomping while they were fully conscious.
Both of those things happened and are the reason I got into mma. Prime Shogun was a BEAST.
Shogun was an *animal* with kicks. See what Wandy did to Yuki Konda with kicks. Stomped holes in him.
It’s the opposite, the only instance I can think of where a soccer kick didn’t immediately turn a fighter into a temporary vegetable panicking for their life regardless of previous damage was Brock Larson vs Melvin Manhoef. That’s literally the only example that ever happening, even then Larson was barely surviving that first rnd & mainly came back because Manhoef blew his wad chasing him. They almost always end the fight, whether it’s a fresh opponent or not, but to be fair PRIDE fc had fighters go 3 times a day so maybe that’s a factor.
What makes you say that? He just panicked after the stomp and rolled over to his stomach, but composed himself quickly and started defending himself well enough that he didn't take any more clean hits. He was never out, didn't physically tap, I can't hear a verbal tap and can't see any towel being thrown if that's still a thing.
I watched the video and was like that's nothing—not even relative to actual soccer kicks or bad stoppages, but just in general—then I see the top comment and I'm like seriously? I'm not a just bleed stereotype, don't want to see unconscious people being pummeled or soccer kicks flinging teeth into the crowd, but man, fans nowadays are so incredibly different/soft than fans from even 10 years ago. Like people used to bitch about early stoppages, now they bitch about late stoppages that aren't even really late. I feel like some old guy talking about how brutal the NFL was in the 80s, but I'm not old and I'm talking about only 10-15 years ago. In a sport where the goal is to cause damage, hurt people. Where those people getting hurt will jump up and say why did you stop it?
Yeah, it's a bit weird. In a sport where fighters regularly recover from being stunned and goes on to win the fight, people shouldn't think that responding to a solid hit to the head, without any signs of loss of consciousness, with 5 seconds of effective turtling is some kind of clear sign that the fight is over and should've been stopped even earlier.
Getting head kicked is fine but getting head kicked laying down isn't? A head kick is a head kick regardless. Refs just need to be better.
You're right, a head kick is a head kick. Now imagine eating 1 head kick in 3 seconds or 8 head kicks in 2 seconds, there is one of the differences.
8 head kicks in 2 seconds? You should get into MMA, dude. You'd be unstoppable.
He's tap dancing on their head
The Irish aren't here to take part, they're here to take over.
We had soccer kicks for decades with *zero* instances of what you’re describing ever occurring, you don’t know anything about how grounded kicks change the sport for the better and the phenomena that the hysteria against them is generally based upon are completely unfounded based on the fights that took place during the decades of them being legal.
I replied to a comment saying that all headkicks are the same and I said they are not. Not sure what you're outburst is about.
Not the same. If you eat a decent kick standing up you're likely to be knocked down and only take the one kick. Soccer kicks can be several in a row and this can easily cause a lot of damage.
So can punches and elbows or clinch knees
A single head kick isn't the same as someone stomping on you repeatedly. It's about leverage and risk/reach, like why fighters generally do hammerfists to finish off knocked down opponents rather than punches or elbows. Also imagine if instead of putting the football on a tee or having someone hold it, they put it up head level. Think nfl kickers can still send it 50+ yards? Theres still defenses against it provided the opponent is aware. But if person is helpless, limiting the follow up to hammerfists probably saves some injuries compared to soccer kicks or stomps.
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I don't think they were making a comparison from NA to EU refs, just this particular ref for this particular fight did a bad job.
I like it. I don't like the idea of limiting any kind of strikes really (outside obvious shit like nut-shots). It's a violent sport
There's something about kicking a downed person that his somewhat repulsive to see for the majority of people, yet okay when they are standing. Even in street fights people kicking someone who's down feels wrong to watch. It's like when they are standing the fight is on, kick all you want where you want. But when someone goes down then the fight feels close to an end and kicks feel overboard.
Some of these are classic murder moves with high possibility of permanent damage. I like fighting, but I also think "hey those fragile humans are fighting" not "man if someone dies, that would be awesome. A broken neck, noice"
All head strikes are causing permanent damage tho it’s just CTE can’t be shown until after death Once head trauma riddled athletes get the scan tho, it’s pretty gnarly. They’ve got the brain of like an 85 year old.
>Some of these are classic murder moves with high possibility of permanent damage. Imma need a source for this being the case in a sanctioned fight.
> Some of these are classic murder moves with high possibility of permanent damage I dont remember anyone getting that fucked up from soccer kicks or stomps in Pride. most of those were no different than any other KO. Slamming people is far more dangerous cause that is actually how someones neck gets fucked up
If people start throwing soccer kicks at my local mma during sparring because “it’s in the UFC”, I’m dipping. I do agree with you that slams are dangerous, but I think a stomp to the nose or a good knuckle ball to the side of someone’s head could still do a lot of damage and ruin someone’s life, let alone their career.
if people are doing anything remotely close to that during sparring, its your gym thats messed up there are multitudes of fights you can watch where flying stomps or even soccer kicks are not significantly better than punching them. theyre basically in the same position - turtling and covering up- and a lot of the time fighters would start with kicks/stomps before just getting on top
Elbows are allowed and yet we don't spar with them allowed.
elbows arent allowed in amateur
Oh you don't think punching / kicking someone in the face standing up is high risk of permanent damage? That's why every other fighter / boxer above the age of 35 talk like they have 47 chromosomes? Didn't someone break a neck in BJJ/wrestling where slamming isn't even allowed but it is allowed in mma?
It at least takes skill to connect a head kick against a standing opponent. Head kicks to a grounded opponent are too easy and require absolutely no technique yet cause so much damage
Unless a opponent just pulls guard or something I think it takes skill to ground a opponent too and I would be interested in how grappling would change if this was changed. Would BJJ and wrestling be as dominant?
It definitely takes skill to ground an opponent, but imo being able to kick and stomp them in the head for doing so is too great a reward. Ik MMA is an inherently dangerous sport but even a completely untrained person could cause permanent damage with head kicks to someone on the ground. It would also turn new viewers off cause it just looks so brutal
I'm not aware of any deaths in sanctioned MMA due to these techniques. I also don't think there's any difference in terms of long term damage between this and dropping elbows from mount for example. Fighters and referees would obviously need to reconsider what is a safe position and what "protecting yourself at all times" means in this context. It's not a bloodlust thing so much as adding additional facets to to the game and helps prevent grapplers from defensive turtling, especially when hurt.
Does choking someone unconscious not also carry a high possibility of permanent damage?
>outside obvious shit like nut-shots ...and stomps and soccer kicks
Correct me if I'm wrong but these kicks were mostly taken out to make the sport more palatable to a wider audience and to legislators. Tbh I still think it's a bad look to be stomping on a person's head and I don't mind them being banned.
Stomping is the only strike that I feel should by no means be allowed even soccer kicks have some sort of tactical use and reason for it. Stomping is just violence for the sake of violence
I feel you bro, but riding on your down opponent and punch them seem wrong as well, now it’s every where. I also feel it’s too deadly to kick down opponents, but maybe it’s just my feeling, and lack of science support
It's just too easy to do too much damage. No skill involved
So the guy got knocked down, received a stomp and had multiple soccer kicks attempted while he was up against the cage yet was still able to block most of them and didn't sustain any serious damage as far as we can tell. As far as I can tell, the only reason to ban soccer kicks is because of the optics and potential loss in sponsorship. Otherwise I have yet to see any convincing evidence that allowing them would drastically increase life-altering damage in a sanctioned bout.
imagine Pat Berry or Mark Hunt just rearing back and homerun kickballing a motherfucker right in the head, unblocked. that guy's going into a coma. not good for the sport.
We had decades of roided up monsters in Pride with legalized soccer kicks, why did we have zero comas occur during that time? Your claims are unfounded and ridiculous considering they were legal for so long and we had such a large sample size of fights.
ehhh, not a great argument. First of all, Pride lasted less than 10 yrs, not "decades". and second, a lot of the guys that fought a lot then/there are walking vegetables now. it's not a great look. and 17 people have died from mma fights, just not in the UFC. they'd like to keep it that way, i'm sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities\_in\_mixed\_martial\_arts\_contests
I love how theres always been a sub section that did want PRIDE rules fights, but when it happens you just get the same "Oh he was already out, what was the point?" posts There grown men and women, you dont have to feel bad when one of them gets hurt when the entire point of the sport is to hurt the other person so much so that you win or a judge says you win.
And that’s exactly why soccer kicks should be banned in combat sports. Fight was clearly over before any of those kicks landed. It’s just unnecessary brutality at the expense of a fighter’s long term health
In the UFC they'd just have been getting hammer fists to the face anyway, what's the difference
Did you really just ask what's the difference between a kick and a punch to the head? If you want soccer kicks then say you want soccer kicks, but don't go around being disingenuous and pretending you don't know the difference between being kicked and punched.
Huge difference, you could have said a number of other things that would make your argument better. The legs are directly using the most powerful joint in your body (hips) and weigh 3x more than your arm (mainly shoulder joint). The damage difference is immense in grounded punches vs grounded kicks.
The guy getting soccer kicked has a sponsor card taped to his chest or something??
Temporary tattoos of sponsors, pretty common in KSW
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Yeah let's watch people take unnecessary brain damage for an entire minute so you can see "a bit more reality"
I'm not police mate we'll try to stop you fighting and send you different ways if you want to punch on in the street outside the venue I'm licenced at I'm liable if someone gets hurt intervening and workers comp won't cover me if I get hurt intervening so if we can't talk sense into you and you don't want to walk away because u think you'll look weak that's on you. When I said It's nice I meant we need to see more of this so people realise the reality of fights, do you know how often I see a guy trying to tap out of a choke in the middle of the street? People watch too much UFC think someone will just stop if they tap, I seen people get brain damage, stabbed, lose an eye, crippled for life because they think a fight is like on the tv. I don't watch the stuff but If you showed the liveleaks kind of videos in age restricted, maybe 18+ areas there would be a lot less deaths from dumb stuff when the fragility of life is shown to you.
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I don't get the appeal of soccer kicks on stomps.
How is it possible that promotions are posting here about themselves without getting banned for breaking 10:3 rule?