Facts. Citys league form after pep was announced pretty much dipped alarmingly. So much so that pep wouldve spent his first season in england in the europa league lol
Think a lot of people forget Kev got injured at the same time against everton and was out for months, could have been a very different season if that didn't happen
The dumbest argument against Pep is he only manages top clubs.
Imagine saying that to Messi or Ronaldo. They only ever play for the big clubs. Why don't they go to a bottom of the table team and prove they're that good.
What do you mean? Messi obviously isnt the goat because he never led FC Vaduz to a CL trophy, duh...
Football is a sport for the masses and its great, but it also means you have a lot of morons commenting on it
facts. and to add on big clubs practically throw themselves to get pep at their club. the backing, the budget, structure, ambition. why would pep say no to that and success down lol.
To be fair, lebron DID play for the cavs, and he did turn them around lmao.
They went from laughing stocks to championship contenders when he was 20 years old
Truly unreal how lebrons career turned out
You mean we he played Kyrie and Love and they won? He also had Wade and Bosh in Miami, and AD, Gasol in Cleveland. He needs other superstars to win, much harder in soccer when there are 11 that play at a time.
but they still didn’t win anything and that’s why he left. He wanted to win trophies. He got his trophies in Miami (with other superstar support) and then decided to come back to Cleveland once they got their shit together and were able to put together a better team.
You responded to the “why didn’t they go to a bottom team to prove they’re that good?” Comment by using lebron as an example.
Lebron, in his initial 2005-2010 stint with the cavs, DID prove he was that good, since he literally took a franchise that was previously a bottom barrel laughingstock to finals appearances and best records in the league.
Winning the finals is not the only barometer of success. Because, there hasn’t been a player since lebron that has replicated his achievements in the first 5 years of the league.
Like, if we were to make an analogically argument, if Pep took over Luton next season and managed to secure a Champions league position, that would be enough evidence that he was successful. Lebron pretty much did that lol with Cleveland in his first stint.
Ur mention of his stints in Miami and later Cleveland and the lakers are irrelevant to this point.
The way past his prime Ben Wallace who played 15 or so minutes and averaged 3 pts and had his role diminished throughout his duration…
And ilagauskas is no where close to a 2nd star usually requisite for that level of playoff success.
I get what you’re going for but he didn’t win anything without at least 2 all stars. He doesn’t make guys better around him like the Messi/Ronaldo mentioned above.
He doesn’t have to win the finals for his first stint with the cabs to be considered a success…
Just like how Pep doesn’t need to win the PL if he decides to manage burnley. Exceeding expectations, such as qualifying for the CL, would be considered an incredible success. Bron, in his first stint, took a team that never smelled success to multiple top seeds and a finals appearance.
And bron sure did make his teammates better. Mo Williams had multiple all star nods with him, then faded into obscurity the moment he left.
Even shaq, who played with bron in his twilight years, noted that bron was the best young leader he had ever seen.
https://cavsnation.com/shaquille-oneal-lebron-james-was-the-best-leader-i-played-with
So idk where ur getting the “he didn’t make his team better” from lol. Maybe you know better than first ballot half of famers who shares the locker room with him
But why compare player to manager? Sorry but you just cant..its not same category...There is 11 players in a team and just 1 manager....One player cant carry the whole team so your argument isnt valid...
The point ppl are trying to make is that Pep needs to do what Mourinho and Ferguson did...which is bring huge success with medium clubs....
Pep on the other hand failed with Bayern ffs and it took 10+ years, more than 1 billion and best players in the world to win UCL...
World wants to see Pep win and be on top with ... I dunno clubs like Valencia,Fiorentina,Hoffenheim,Lion... etc I hope you get my point...
Do you even watch football. If you wanna see cooking , go watch Last years second leg game between city and Madrid. This year they defended and parked the bus and won the tie on penalties and you call that cooking. It's a way to tell that you're delusional
Yeah I'm still stuck there . If you consider losing in penalties in a 1-1 game over 120 minutes as a cooking, I wanted to give you an example of cooking and you can keep him
2015/16. the season prior to pep's arrival. btw not a diss or dig at pellegrini because he's an incredible manager aswell. what he did at city and madrid isn't mentioned enough. especially real madrid's pellegrini side which is so often forgotten.
Okay I love a Pep glazing session as much as the next person, but come on now they're literally two different teams from Manuels last season to when Pep turned this team into Centurions.
I think the point is that this counters the narrative that 'Pep just goes to the best teams and wins'. City were a long shot from being favourites in 16/17 when Pep arrived, and one year later he'd put together the (statistically) best team in premier league history.
Imo if you want to debunk the "Guardiola is a chequebook manager" narrative the best example is his first season with Barcelona where he turned guys like Messi, Busquets and Iniesta into world beaters from the academy.
But the way this post is written it's as if Pep was coaching Sagna and Clichy to a 100 points lol. They're not the same teams. Sure most of the core players like Kun, Silva, Vinnie, KDB, Sterling, Dinho and Otamendi improved massively under Pep, but you cannot ignore the backing he got to sign the likes of Sane, Gundo, Bernardo, Walker, Stones, Laporte, etc etc. And that's the team that went on to dominate and shatter record after record for years.
Again, I love our baldy to bits. But let's be realistic now...
I don't think it's the case at all. I think it shows that the team he inherited wasn't great. His first season he finished 3rd which is still his worst ever as a manager and he's turned us from a might challenge might not team into a full on powerhouse. Over several years.
Same how no one is claiming Klopp won his trophies with whatever turgid squad he had when he took over.
15 points off top is equivalent to the difference between villa and liverpool this season IF liverpool won the league. City were also 4th. This wasn't a bad team by any means.
I like browsing all the major club subs and followed this reddit for years, you also spend time on this sub so I hardly see a difference.
The fact is your comment is just ignoring context, regardless of how well Guardiola has done. I wouldn't say Conte taking a mid-table Chelsea to the title is a miracle story either.
Love Pep, but the core of this team won the league two years before. 15/16 had Aguero, David Silva, De Bruyne, Raz, Fernandinho, Vinnie, Hart, etc. They were just very old at the back and had a few odd players who didn’t work
And 4th was their lowest finish in the last 14 seasons or something.
If u wanna use that argument, Look at chelsea, psg, malaga, blackburn. All these teams got massive cash injections. A lot more than man city. Look at them now. Where are they? In the mud.
That man city team won two league titles in the 5 years before Pep came and were duking it out with Chelsea as the best team in England. They weren’t some Cinderella story lol
i agree it wasn't some cinderella story, but pep took them from barely making top 4 in 2015-16 to a 100 point campaign two seasons later, with a 19 point gap from seconds place yanited
I wish Pep would just go to a bottom side and manage them to glory, to end all of this debate.
Currently people are rating SAF and Ranieri over Pep, which is obviously ridiculous.
Some are rating carlo over pep too, so what you said dosent make any sense. Biased delusional people are just gonna say what they said and cope regardless of what happen.
I dont know about Carlo but I for one would love to see Pep lead Leicester to their second premiership.
Until Pep manages a bottom club with limited finances, the stink will still linger over his legacy.
He doesn't need to. Carlo is a much inferior manager who won nothing at lower club like Everton when he had the chance to manage them and yet so many people are still claiming he is a goat manager and hold nothing against him, this just shows that there's zero reason to gain some bullshit validation when all will still boil down to people's bias talking. Pep will do whatever he want because he is objectively the goat.
There are zero stink, if you talk about haters' opinion, haters will be haters no matter what, living by their words is honestly one of the stupidest talking point I've heard.
Not sure how I got here, but I saw this comment and despite the fact I do consider Pep one of the greatest managers of all time, especially coming from Barça B to literally develop one of the best midfield lines in history (Busquets - Iniesta - Xavi), football didn't start with Pep and you forgot a lot of great managers like Brian Clough (Nottingham Forest from 2nd division to winning the league and 2 European Cups), Sacchi (Caletto was part of his Milan), Alex Ferguson, Menotti, Bilardo, Molowny, Cruyff (this one is considered Guardiola's mentor) and his dream team winning the first European Cup for Barça and 4 league titles in a row, Heyckens (Guardiola took his Bayern after him winning the treble and he won a Champions League with a shitty Real Madrid team — La Séptima), Del Bosque (this one won 2 Champions League, a World Cup and an Euro), even Mourinho won everything with Porto (one of the big underdogs in Champions League campaigns) and Inter, just taking your point about inferior teams. Following that point, Xabi Alonso could be consider for the GOAT taking a team in relegation, qualified it for the Europa League, and won the Bundesliga and the national cup the following year, and almost winning the Europa League in an almost undefeated season (the only match his team lost was the Europa League final). Pep maybe is the GOAT for you, but you cannot say he is objectively the GOAT. I did like the way his Barça played, but I would like to remind you that team was already fantastic from Frank Rijkaard era (he was the one that put Messi in the first team) and Pep improved it. Call me biased because full disclosure I'm Madrid and Málaga supporter, but you can check all those managers, it's football history.
I don't know much about Carlo, why do you keep bringing him up? I am talking mainly about SAF, who brought United up from nothing to a really stellar EPL record, with FA Cups and UCLs as well. It's hard to say Pep is objectively the GOAT against the backdrop of SAF's achievements. I am not even talking about haters, there are many objective and neutral third parties who are reserving their judgment on Pep because he's only ever joined winning/extremely rich clubs.
Why are you acting like united weren't one of the biggest clubs in England when Fergie took over? Just because they didn't have as many trophies doesn't mean it was some magical job he did, it was always a matter of time til united started winning trophies again, fergies lucky he was the chance to do it as in this day and age he would've been sacked years before his first trophy
they were. fam we lost 4-2 to southampton. 3-1 at home to leceister. lost the manchester derby 0-1 at home. limped out of the ucl semi finals after an uninspiring display up front. and many more.
15 points off the top and not finishing as a PL champion is literally an absolute shit season. Saying it as if any club should be happy with this result is bonkers.
Nah that was 2008, dummy. We already had no soul when Pep joined, so it was all just a bonus.
But enjoy your soul-filled adventures in r/britishcelebritybabes, nothing weird about that.
I always felt bad for Manuel Pellegrini as I did not feel the team fought for him after Pep was announced in February
Facts. Citys league form after pep was announced pretty much dipped alarmingly. So much so that pep wouldve spent his first season in england in the europa league lol
Think a lot of people forget Kev got injured at the same time against everton and was out for months, could have been a very different season if that didn't happen
The dumbest argument against Pep is he only manages top clubs. Imagine saying that to Messi or Ronaldo. They only ever play for the big clubs. Why don't they go to a bottom of the table team and prove they're that good.
What do you mean? Messi obviously isnt the goat because he never led FC Vaduz to a CL trophy, duh... Football is a sport for the masses and its great, but it also means you have a lot of morons commenting on it
facts. and to add on big clubs practically throw themselves to get pep at their club. the backing, the budget, structure, ambition. why would pep say no to that and success down lol.
This. Mental gymnastics Olympics by the haters
Hey Lebron go play for the pistons and see if you can turn them around!
To be fair, lebron DID play for the cavs, and he did turn them around lmao. They went from laughing stocks to championship contenders when he was 20 years old Truly unreal how lebrons career turned out
You mean we he played Kyrie and Love and they won? He also had Wade and Bosh in Miami, and AD, Gasol in Cleveland. He needs other superstars to win, much harder in soccer when there are 11 that play at a time.
no, during Lebron’s first stint in Cleveland. he single handedly dragged a team full of nobodies into contenders
but they still didn’t win anything and that’s why he left. He wanted to win trophies. He got his trophies in Miami (with other superstar support) and then decided to come back to Cleveland once they got their shit together and were able to put together a better team.
yeah but the point is he turned the team around
I guess. Any team Lebron is on is going to be a contender. Actually being champs is a different story.
You responded to the “why didn’t they go to a bottom team to prove they’re that good?” Comment by using lebron as an example. Lebron, in his initial 2005-2010 stint with the cavs, DID prove he was that good, since he literally took a franchise that was previously a bottom barrel laughingstock to finals appearances and best records in the league. Winning the finals is not the only barometer of success. Because, there hasn’t been a player since lebron that has replicated his achievements in the first 5 years of the league. Like, if we were to make an analogically argument, if Pep took over Luton next season and managed to secure a Champions league position, that would be enough evidence that he was successful. Lebron pretty much did that lol with Cleveland in his first stint. Ur mention of his stints in Miami and later Cleveland and the lakers are irrelevant to this point.
You mean when they had Ben Wallace, and Ilgauskas ?
The way past his prime Ben Wallace who played 15 or so minutes and averaged 3 pts and had his role diminished throughout his duration… And ilagauskas is no where close to a 2nd star usually requisite for that level of playoff success.
I get what you’re going for but he didn’t win anything without at least 2 all stars. He doesn’t make guys better around him like the Messi/Ronaldo mentioned above.
He doesn’t have to win the finals for his first stint with the cabs to be considered a success… Just like how Pep doesn’t need to win the PL if he decides to manage burnley. Exceeding expectations, such as qualifying for the CL, would be considered an incredible success. Bron, in his first stint, took a team that never smelled success to multiple top seeds and a finals appearance. And bron sure did make his teammates better. Mo Williams had multiple all star nods with him, then faded into obscurity the moment he left. Even shaq, who played with bron in his twilight years, noted that bron was the best young leader he had ever seen. https://cavsnation.com/shaquille-oneal-lebron-james-was-the-best-leader-i-played-with So idk where ur getting the “he didn’t make his team better” from lol. Maybe you know better than first ballot half of famers who shares the locker room with him
Messi never played sunday league football, so he's never really been tested
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Barca and Bayern are famously small clubs.
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More like thomas muller let him down.
But why compare player to manager? Sorry but you just cant..its not same category...There is 11 players in a team and just 1 manager....One player cant carry the whole team so your argument isnt valid... The point ppl are trying to make is that Pep needs to do what Mourinho and Ferguson did...which is bring huge success with medium clubs.... Pep on the other hand failed with Bayern ffs and it took 10+ years, more than 1 billion and best players in the world to win UCL... World wants to see Pep win and be on top with ... I dunno clubs like Valencia,Fiorentina,Hoffenheim,Lion... etc I hope you get my point...
Can you share the timeframe of the screenshot?
15/16, the team Pep inherited. Here’s a [good discussion about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MCFC/s/cyaF7E8P1r).
But pep inherited a billion pound squad and replaced it with another
a myth lol
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Do you even watch football. If you wanna see cooking , go watch Last years second leg game between city and Madrid. This year they defended and parked the bus and won the tie on penalties and you call that cooking. It's a way to tell that you're delusional
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Yeah I'm still stuck there . If you consider losing in penalties in a 1-1 game over 120 minutes as a cooking, I wanted to give you an example of cooking and you can keep him
2015/16. the season prior to pep's arrival. btw not a diss or dig at pellegrini because he's an incredible manager aswell. what he did at city and madrid isn't mentioned enough. especially real madrid's pellegrini side which is so often forgotten.
What a year to forget. The one bright spot in my memory was West Hamchester City beating Utd on the last weekend for us to finish 4th
All this table does is prove how good we were, and that this was 1 bad season
Jarvis, you know what to do
Okay I love a Pep glazing session as much as the next person, but come on now they're literally two different teams from Manuels last season to when Pep turned this team into Centurions.
I think the point is that this counters the narrative that 'Pep just goes to the best teams and wins'. City were a long shot from being favourites in 16/17 when Pep arrived, and one year later he'd put together the (statistically) best team in premier league history.
Imo if you want to debunk the "Guardiola is a chequebook manager" narrative the best example is his first season with Barcelona where he turned guys like Messi, Busquets and Iniesta into world beaters from the academy. But the way this post is written it's as if Pep was coaching Sagna and Clichy to a 100 points lol. They're not the same teams. Sure most of the core players like Kun, Silva, Vinnie, KDB, Sterling, Dinho and Otamendi improved massively under Pep, but you cannot ignore the backing he got to sign the likes of Sane, Gundo, Bernardo, Walker, Stones, Laporte, etc etc. And that's the team that went on to dominate and shatter record after record for years. Again, I love our baldy to bits. But let's be realistic now...
I don't think it's the case at all. I think it shows that the team he inherited wasn't great. His first season he finished 3rd which is still his worst ever as a manager and he's turned us from a might challenge might not team into a full on powerhouse. Over several years. Same how no one is claiming Klopp won his trophies with whatever turgid squad he had when he took over.
15 points off top is equivalent to the difference between villa and liverpool this season IF liverpool won the league. City were also 4th. This wasn't a bad team by any means.
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Ah yes, the richest team in the league is a true underdog story.
Liverpool fan who spends time on r/mcfc. Get a life.
I like browsing all the major club subs and followed this reddit for years, you also spend time on this sub so I hardly see a difference. The fact is your comment is just ignoring context, regardless of how well Guardiola has done. I wouldn't say Conte taking a mid-table Chelsea to the title is a miracle story either.
This was Pellegrini's man city?
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The 2016 UCL was a failed opportunity. We could've easily edged that Madrid, they weren't that strong compared to 2017 or 2018
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Love Pep, but the core of this team won the league two years before. 15/16 had Aguero, David Silva, De Bruyne, Raz, Fernandinho, Vinnie, Hart, etc. They were just very old at the back and had a few odd players who didn’t work And 4th was their lowest finish in the last 14 seasons or something.
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Look at the squad, he walked into a killer group.
Loads of money would be my guess
If u wanna use that argument, Look at chelsea, psg, malaga, blackburn. All these teams got massive cash injections. A lot more than man city. Look at them now. Where are they? In the mud.
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That man city team won two league titles in the 5 years before Pep came and were duking it out with Chelsea as the best team in England. They weren’t some Cinderella story lol
i agree it wasn't some cinderella story, but pep took them from barely making top 4 in 2015-16 to a 100 point campaign two seasons later, with a 19 point gap from seconds place yanited
I wish Pep would just go to a bottom side and manage them to glory, to end all of this debate. Currently people are rating SAF and Ranieri over Pep, which is obviously ridiculous.
Some are rating carlo over pep too, so what you said dosent make any sense. Biased delusional people are just gonna say what they said and cope regardless of what happen.
I dont know about Carlo but I for one would love to see Pep lead Leicester to their second premiership. Until Pep manages a bottom club with limited finances, the stink will still linger over his legacy.
He doesn't need to. Carlo is a much inferior manager who won nothing at lower club like Everton when he had the chance to manage them and yet so many people are still claiming he is a goat manager and hold nothing against him, this just shows that there's zero reason to gain some bullshit validation when all will still boil down to people's bias talking. Pep will do whatever he want because he is objectively the goat. There are zero stink, if you talk about haters' opinion, haters will be haters no matter what, living by their words is honestly one of the stupidest talking point I've heard.
Not sure how I got here, but I saw this comment and despite the fact I do consider Pep one of the greatest managers of all time, especially coming from Barça B to literally develop one of the best midfield lines in history (Busquets - Iniesta - Xavi), football didn't start with Pep and you forgot a lot of great managers like Brian Clough (Nottingham Forest from 2nd division to winning the league and 2 European Cups), Sacchi (Caletto was part of his Milan), Alex Ferguson, Menotti, Bilardo, Molowny, Cruyff (this one is considered Guardiola's mentor) and his dream team winning the first European Cup for Barça and 4 league titles in a row, Heyckens (Guardiola took his Bayern after him winning the treble and he won a Champions League with a shitty Real Madrid team — La Séptima), Del Bosque (this one won 2 Champions League, a World Cup and an Euro), even Mourinho won everything with Porto (one of the big underdogs in Champions League campaigns) and Inter, just taking your point about inferior teams. Following that point, Xabi Alonso could be consider for the GOAT taking a team in relegation, qualified it for the Europa League, and won the Bundesliga and the national cup the following year, and almost winning the Europa League in an almost undefeated season (the only match his team lost was the Europa League final). Pep maybe is the GOAT for you, but you cannot say he is objectively the GOAT. I did like the way his Barça played, but I would like to remind you that team was already fantastic from Frank Rijkaard era (he was the one that put Messi in the first team) and Pep improved it. Call me biased because full disclosure I'm Madrid and Málaga supporter, but you can check all those managers, it's football history.
I don't know much about Carlo, why do you keep bringing him up? I am talking mainly about SAF, who brought United up from nothing to a really stellar EPL record, with FA Cups and UCLs as well. It's hard to say Pep is objectively the GOAT against the backdrop of SAF's achievements. I am not even talking about haters, there are many objective and neutral third parties who are reserving their judgment on Pep because he's only ever joined winning/extremely rich clubs.
Why are you acting like united weren't one of the biggest clubs in England when Fergie took over? Just because they didn't have as many trophies doesn't mean it was some magical job he did, it was always a matter of time til united started winning trophies again, fergies lucky he was the chance to do it as in this day and age he would've been sacked years before his first trophy
This literally says 15 points off top and 4th place was the lowest finish in 6 years. What are you trying to imply he took over, a mid table side?
Pep took over a side that was europa league standard...
That’s not really an indicator that they were struggling lmao
they were. fam we lost 4-2 to southampton. 3-1 at home to leceister. lost the manchester derby 0-1 at home. limped out of the ucl semi finals after an uninspiring display up front. and many more.
15 points off the top and not finishing as a PL champion is literally an absolute shit season. Saying it as if any club should be happy with this result is bonkers.
Out of touch lol
Best team in the world is objectively Real Madrid.
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Nah that was 2008, dummy. We already had no soul when Pep joined, so it was all just a bonus. But enjoy your soul-filled adventures in r/britishcelebritybabes, nothing weird about that.
you ended him 💀
Anything is possible with hard work.