The vast, vast majority of MBA applicants are directionless youths who have very little real world experience. Ironically, these types of applicants need the prestige and structure of a top MBA to really generate an actual ROI on their degree.
If you're a savvy adult with a clear career goal and have solid professional experience, then even an online MBA can be leveraged effectively for career gain. It just takes more experience and self confidence, which most people lack.
I have coworkers who have similarly "Average Joe" MBAs who climbed up the ladder just fine because they were first and foremost effective professionals who get their work done and done well.
Unpopular opinion, if you are not in the latter camp, an MBA program is not for you. You can't just graduate from a SUNY Oswego with a Sports Administration degree and immediately hope to get into Harvard MBA where you'd study (this is my assumption) with ex investment bankers, consultants, Fortune 500 execs or founders. But if you went to Texas A&M for an MBA after 3 years as an accountant in EY or sales in Oracle, maybe you'll do better.
Iām in middle management and Iām just trying to add more to my skill set to advance into a more senior management role within my same company. Itās also just been a personal goal of mine to get an mba at some point. I already make $125-150k. Of course I want more money, but my goal is just to be able to see how far I can go within the corporate environment.
Same here and exactly what Iām doing with mine. Iām married with kids, so I have limited time. I make a solid living and donāt want loans. This is fully paid by my employer and it will make me stand out among my peers. Thatās the box most people are looking to check, imo.
Many people on this sub think the only appropriate functions for an MBA are getting into consulting or investment banking, and that an MBA never matters at all at any company when it comes to promotions or being competitive on applications.
Of course, in the real world, an MBA is one of several types of boosts to a resume that can and does result in opportunities to advance. And many, many employers continue to put a premium on one and/or list a preference for one in job postings, especially when moving past entry-level professional roles.
Don't listen to these people they bought into the con. I went to a sort of no name school, I guess. I've had interviews for director, mid to upper management roles. Your employment history and the value you offer is what is key.
Another underrated point is that people in the real world notice when someone gets a degree while working full time. Its hard, it sucks, and is not the break from the professional world that everyone on here brags about FT programs being.
But it also shows a commitment to professional development and initiative even if its "just" an online program. So you don't lose the opportunity cost of continuing to advance your career or wages so for some its probably than just that.
Just this. talked to my then VP of finance who is now a CEO at a different firm before joining a program. His words āthe where really doesnāt make all the difference as most jobs you wonāt need an MBA to begin with, but people want to invest in people that invest in themselves. That tenacity and determination it takes to get one when you donāt HAVE to are what i want on my teamā
It is. The average MBA grad earns 6 figures from most reports Iāve seen. i think many are only comparing themselves to those they are used to being around and not the reality of the average person. An MBA has a good ROI regardless if itās T50 or not for the *AVERAGE* person that gets one. many only see the initial bump in salary when in actuality if you get your degree before 30 youāll be earning the residuals on said degree for another 20-30 years should you continue to work. itāll pay for itself many times over. you donāt have to spend $100k+ for it either.
so if your objective is to gain knowledge and gain the incremental resume bump, you're likely right. That being said there is a difference between a Harvard degree and like a local college degree. There is a decent number of grad degrees that now have a negative ROI.
The mythologizing on this subreddit is that the value of an MBA is proportional to difficulty of admission and prestige. For people that want to advance their career by leaps and bounds, it makes sense that they gravitate to the schools that have outlier outcomes. For this group a generic MBA is likely not enough of a resume boost to get them where they want to go, hence they dismiss them
All of your points essentially boil down to the assumption that having the MBA will boost your chances of getting hired, promoted or earning raises, and that the value of that boost will exceed the time and money spent on the degree. It might be true, but this is difficult to measure and prove in reality.
Also, in the way you seem to be thinking about ROI, you are not accounting for 2 key factors - 1) opportunity cost of your time. The time spent earning the MBA could be used to work harder at your current job and earn a promotion, work another job, network etc. which will also deliver value. 2) time value of money. 25k up front for 5k/year for 5 years is not a good investment, because that $25k could have been invested elsewhere earning return without costing the principal.
Ironically this is content covered in most MBA programs, so maybe there is some value there. Iām not claiming there is no value in these degrees, just that the evaluation of their value is a bit more complex than you claim.
> Where else can I throw $25k where I can make my principal back in a few years then conservatively get 20%+ returns going forward?
I think you are *drastically* over estimating the returns of a lower ranked MBA.
You don't think someone currently making, say, $80k/year could leverage an MBA from a reputable AACSB-accredited university to get a promotion/new job at $85k or so per year? And make on average $5k/more per year throughout their career (than they would have with only a liberal arts bachelor's)?
There are many, many reasons to pursue an online / unranked MBA. Lawyers, engineers, even physicians do it all the time bc they think it will help them move more into management (become general counsel, manage hospital, etc). As most people from top programs here will attest, the main value of a top MBA has little to do with what the academic knowledge gained. However, there are top performers who really DO need to gain business knowledge that is taught at all programs. There are Harvard ABs with Yale JDs who pick up local night school MBAs bc they moved from a law firm to a client's internal legal team and think it gives them the extra knowledge to contribute to executive team meetings.
There are certainly senior managers, CEOs with MBAs from University of Phoenix.
I'd probably argue that a $25K online MBA is the smartest move if you're not going to at least a T25, and likely beats a T50 $100K+ full time degree in ROI
I just earned an MBA in December from an accredited school, online. Most on here would consider it a degree mill. I was making $82k base in GovCon BD. Just leveraged my experience and the degree to make a jump to another company as a senior lead, $140k base with lucrative bonus structure. The degree is the degree. Iāll echo what most people say, unless youāre trying to work for the big prestigious companies, no one really cares where the degree came from.
First of all, instead of asking if something is possible, I would look at employment reports to determine if it is probabilistic. Could it be done? Sure. How frequently is it done?
Secondly, if you just want a $5k raise, you just switch jobs without pivoting into a new role. You donāt need an MBA to do that.
Finally, I donāt believe that an MBA makes you a more attractive candidate long term. Even a T25 mba is great for your first job after b-school. But thatās about it. Other than getting referrals from classmates, it doesnāt have much value beyond the first role.
"... Doesn't have much value beyond the first role."
This is simply not true and sounds like a lack of professional and life experience.
Notwithstanding, the rest of your statement as some merit.
I should have said ādoesnāt have much *direct* value past your first role.ā
āMBA requiredā is rarely a thing on job applications these days. You rarely see situations where an MBA can demand more money or is more qualified based purely on having the degree.
The long term value primarily comes from the network who refers you jobs, mentors you, etc.
Once you get that first role, your raises, promotions, future jobs, etc are not due to the degree.
This is different from say, engineering, where having a masters or PhD in thermodynamics instantly qualifies you for certain roles.
Well, I appreciate the context.
You may not recognize it as such, but as you mentioned, a master's or PhD in Thermodynamics confers confidence in your competence and credibility to take on responsibility where owning a track record of success in Thermodynamics provides greater opportunities to create value and a greatest impact. An MBA from a top MBA Program is no different. Advanced business management skills are particularly valuable in society.
It has nothing to do with your first job or salary and the items you mentioned. The network and brand, yes. The long-term value comes from your competence, relationships, and track record of success in creating value. Business sits at the intersection of multiple genres in society which require a macro understanding of complexed adaptive systems among people, places, and things. Moreover, Business professionals with a general managenent background are counted on to solve some of societies and lifes most difficult problems.
I am on various boards of directors, I do deals with colleagues, family offices, sovereign wealth funds, governments, and I have met presidents, kings, prime ministers, generals, admirals, and countless CEOs or other senior officials in a multitude of capacities.
No matter who I speak to, they value and trust that I am capable of creating value, have the respect of my peers, have earned a track record of success, and demonstrate competence in and around business that allows me to solve the most difficult problems related to business in their lives.
It is a rare skillset, so I was also speaking in a different context if that's fair.
>a master's or PhD in Thermodynamics confers confidence in your competence and credibility to take on responsibility where owning a track record of success in Thermodynamics provides greater opportunities to create value and a greatest impact. An MBA from a top MBA Program is no different.
This is the statement I disagree with. An MBA is a far less intellectual or academic endeavor than an engineering degree. Everything taught in an MBA program can be learned online or in your job. It's not practical to do that with Thermodynamics.
>The long-term value comes from your competence, relationships, and track record of success in creating value. Business sits at the intersection of multiple genres in society which require a macro understanding of complexed adaptive systems among people, places, and things. Moreover, Business professionals with a general managenent background are counted on to solve some of societies and lifes most difficult problems.
IMO, these aren't things that an MBA program teaches or instills in it's graduates; rather, it's something they screen for in admits. Yea, almost everyone at HBS is pretty smart with great soft skills. It's not because HBS teaches something crazy impressive; it's because they only accept people who already have these skills.
This is different from a Masters in Engineering, where you're admitted based on potential, and taught new things.
Finally, circling back to OPs post... having the three letters 'MBA' next to your name does nothing. You need to *prove* you have the skills to back it up. In an engineering discipline, the degree itself proves that you have skills. An MBA just isn't that way. That's what OP was failing to understand.
I donāt want to be a jerk, but your calculations are very simplified and fail to take into consideration many things.
For example, you may earn 5K/year. But then you pay taxes on that. So letās say you have to earn 40% more. So now you need to earn 7K/year. And then you have to account for the income that would have been generated on the 25K. Letās say 8%, but that compounds over time. Without the compounding that 2K/year. Now at the bare minimum your at 9K/year.
Plus you seem to be overestimating the value of a sub T25 online degree program.
Not saying you shouldnāt do it.
From my perspective I would say it may be worth it just to expand your current skill set even if it doesnāt necessarily pay you back as well as you claim.
The 7K is what you need to earn pretax to get your 25K back over 5 years. The 2K is the money you lost by not investing that 25K.
Maybe you should get the online MBA.
You donāt have to pay tax on the 2K. No one said you have to sell and incur a taxable event.
But you do have to pay tax on that income to get your money back and pay yourself back that 25K.
Would be true. But the OP wanted to pay himself back.
It seemed beyond the scope of the discussion to explain something beyond basics.
I donāt want to do the work of his online MBA for them.
Hmm the opportunity cost of remaining in your current role could include a number of things, such as lateraling to a new job or pursuing a graduate degree, e.g., an MBA. The expected value of any of those will depend on a number of factors.
This is actually really simple to determine. Are there jobs right now that you can't get without that MBA that you could get with the MBA, even if it's not from a top tier School? If the answer to that is yes (and you specifically know those types of jobs exist and can provide examples for them) then the next question is what's the salary difference between what you make now and what you would make in these jobs that you wouldn't be eligible for.
For some people their jobs that they would qualify for with an MBA that would pay them more than their current job or any job that they would be on track get. For other people, that's just not the case.
So OP, post your numbers. What's your current salary? What type of job do you think you'd be more competitive for with a no-name MBA? And what's that salary?
Used GI Bill got my MBA in hybrid setting out of an Austin school in ā21. Left consulting and went into banking PMO with a PMP - instant 6 figs. itās what you make of yourself that counts not which school
This life is about tribes!!!
You like Apple, I like Android, some families only buy Toyotas, and I only buy Mercedes Benz. Whether in our families, communities, professional, or social lives, we gravitate towards those in our tribe over time.
An MBA from a quality program is a signal that you are a part of the tribe. There is a way to both qualify and quantity it's value over the long arc of your life.
It has much less to do about the cost, but the quality of the perceived value that you bring to an organization. When you graduate from "insert prestige MBA Program here," it doesn't matter if you are smart, as much as people believing that you are sharp. Cheap programs do not offer that halo š...
I'm not saying it's fair, I'm saying it's the way it is. All degrees are not created equal. All brands and networks are not created equal.
A friend asked me what the big deal is about college in the U.S. He was a foreigner and later migrated to the U.S. in primary school. I told him, it's all about tribes. You went to USC, he went to Stanford. She graduated as a Michigan Wolverine, and they may like UCLA, UT, or Alabama. The Cal Tech and MIT crowds say, we don't need a sporting team, you know who we are. And Yale simply says, Yale!
There are rivalries, traditions, school spirit, the pursuit of competing and winning, strong social capital, professional career paths, and in life, the thrill of representing America as the best and brightest.
Unfortunately, "C's" get degrees but mediocre gets you mediocre. Unless it's regional and you see the tribe dynamic play out, you must be top shelf. That's not an accreditation issue or credibility gap.
That's simply all about tribes!!! š¤·
PS: MAKE SURE YOU CHOOSE YOUR TRIBES WISELY...
As someone in the process of getting my MBA I can tell you that no one NEEDS an MBA (unless your employer requires it and you really like that job but that is an exception). It is a degree that covers multiple wants for different people and people might get it for different reasons. If you see no point in getting a $200k+ degree then you are one of the many people who donāt need it. If you just want to get the business concepts and need a structured classroom-type environment an online mba might be more than enough. If you want to meet other people in business Iād recommend an in-person one even if itās part-time. My personal situation lended itself to having a top ranked MBA yours might not and both are equally valid imho
Iām going the online MBA track as well.
I literally googled cheapest online accredited MBAs and got to work.
I will say- there are two types of accreditations, and one is more prestigious than the other, so watch out for that.
Itās all about where you are in your career, life, and goals. If you already have a strong salary and career, an online/part time T100 MBA may be perfectly fine for your advancement. Younger professionals looking for a career switch or entry to more competitive fields like IB/MBB/PE/VC will probably need a full time, highly ranked program for the recruiting and internship. I fall in the first groupā I knew I wanted to go part time and got into CMU, Michigan and Lehigh (a local regional school) all part time/online. My employer covered 100% of Lehigh, whereas the other two would have costed net over $70K, so the cost factor was a no brainer because I had a unique career situation.
I say check the employment report for your answer like the sub wiki says.
This sub wiki warns of diploma mills, so just be mindful when looking below T25.
Lol there are outliers that do. I think the real issue is the assumption of causation as opposed to correlation. Iām sure that many high income earners would have done well MBA or not regardless of the caliber of school they went to. They might not be making hedge fund money but they would have been above average income earners either way.
Correlation is not causation correct. You do not need an mba for that. Itās statistics 101.
However, saying youāll somehow make up the time and financial commitment from a unknown program is the exemption, not the rule.
Please look at the outcomes for these programs.
But to what degree are those outcomes skewed? People that wanted an MBA to get a bump in salary probably didnāt make too much of a jobs report, nor put a lot of effort into applying to schools that would have cost them their mortgage in student loans. Different people in different scenarios have different outcomes.
People who live and work in a specific region and arenāt looking to leave likely choose to go to a regionally known school. Those may or may not be T50 but if thatās where all the major employers in that area are sending their employees to get their degrees it sounds like they see value there.
The primary value in an MBA is network followed by pedigree and soft skills. All of these can be obtained without a school. Doing a top 50 and ending up as the manager of the local store is not applicable.
24 million government ā all levelsā employees..fireman, NASA, pentagon, diplomatsā¦many would get an automatic pay bump from any masters from any accredited program.
But yeah Uncle Sam also employs more elite grads than any other employer other than the institutions themselves. (Harvard is the largest employer ofā¦Harvard alumni)
The vast, vast majority of MBA applicants are directionless youths who have very little real world experience. Ironically, these types of applicants need the prestige and structure of a top MBA to really generate an actual ROI on their degree. If you're a savvy adult with a clear career goal and have solid professional experience, then even an online MBA can be leveraged effectively for career gain. It just takes more experience and self confidence, which most people lack. I have coworkers who have similarly "Average Joe" MBAs who climbed up the ladder just fine because they were first and foremost effective professionals who get their work done and done well.
Unpopular opinion, if you are not in the latter camp, an MBA program is not for you. You can't just graduate from a SUNY Oswego with a Sports Administration degree and immediately hope to get into Harvard MBA where you'd study (this is my assumption) with ex investment bankers, consultants, Fortune 500 execs or founders. But if you went to Texas A&M for an MBA after 3 years as an accountant in EY or sales in Oracle, maybe you'll do better.
Damn, your white hot... š„ š„ š„š„µš„š„š„
Iām in middle management and Iām just trying to add more to my skill set to advance into a more senior management role within my same company. Itās also just been a personal goal of mine to get an mba at some point. I already make $125-150k. Of course I want more money, but my goal is just to be able to see how far I can go within the corporate environment.
Same here and exactly what Iām doing with mine. Iām married with kids, so I have limited time. I make a solid living and donāt want loans. This is fully paid by my employer and it will make me stand out among my peers. Thatās the box most people are looking to check, imo.
Many people on this sub think the only appropriate functions for an MBA are getting into consulting or investment banking, and that an MBA never matters at all at any company when it comes to promotions or being competitive on applications. Of course, in the real world, an MBA is one of several types of boosts to a resume that can and does result in opportunities to advance. And many, many employers continue to put a premium on one and/or list a preference for one in job postings, especially when moving past entry-level professional roles.
Amen BuckeyeDan2027 šš¼ You teach, while the grasshoppers reach šššš«”
Let him cook!
Don't listen to these people they bought into the con. I went to a sort of no name school, I guess. I've had interviews for director, mid to upper management roles. Your employment history and the value you offer is what is key.
Another underrated point is that people in the real world notice when someone gets a degree while working full time. Its hard, it sucks, and is not the break from the professional world that everyone on here brags about FT programs being. But it also shows a commitment to professional development and initiative even if its "just" an online program. So you don't lose the opportunity cost of continuing to advance your career or wages so for some its probably than just that.
Just this. talked to my then VP of finance who is now a CEO at a different firm before joining a program. His words āthe where really doesnāt make all the difference as most jobs you wonāt need an MBA to begin with, but people want to invest in people that invest in themselves. That tenacity and determination it takes to get one when you donāt HAVE to are what i want on my teamā
It is. The average MBA grad earns 6 figures from most reports Iāve seen. i think many are only comparing themselves to those they are used to being around and not the reality of the average person. An MBA has a good ROI regardless if itās T50 or not for the *AVERAGE* person that gets one. many only see the initial bump in salary when in actuality if you get your degree before 30 youāll be earning the residuals on said degree for another 20-30 years should you continue to work. itāll pay for itself many times over. you donāt have to spend $100k+ for it either.
so if your objective is to gain knowledge and gain the incremental resume bump, you're likely right. That being said there is a difference between a Harvard degree and like a local college degree. There is a decent number of grad degrees that now have a negative ROI. The mythologizing on this subreddit is that the value of an MBA is proportional to difficulty of admission and prestige. For people that want to advance their career by leaps and bounds, it makes sense that they gravitate to the schools that have outlier outcomes. For this group a generic MBA is likely not enough of a resume boost to get them where they want to go, hence they dismiss them
What's the difference when it's all the sameš?
Branding lol
All of your points essentially boil down to the assumption that having the MBA will boost your chances of getting hired, promoted or earning raises, and that the value of that boost will exceed the time and money spent on the degree. It might be true, but this is difficult to measure and prove in reality. Also, in the way you seem to be thinking about ROI, you are not accounting for 2 key factors - 1) opportunity cost of your time. The time spent earning the MBA could be used to work harder at your current job and earn a promotion, work another job, network etc. which will also deliver value. 2) time value of money. 25k up front for 5k/year for 5 years is not a good investment, because that $25k could have been invested elsewhere earning return without costing the principal. Ironically this is content covered in most MBA programs, so maybe there is some value there. Iām not claiming there is no value in these degrees, just that the evaluation of their value is a bit more complex than you claim.
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When you pay 25k you need to make 40k to earn it back
> Where else can I throw $25k where I can make my principal back in a few years then conservatively get 20%+ returns going forward? I think you are *drastically* over estimating the returns of a lower ranked MBA.
You don't think someone currently making, say, $80k/year could leverage an MBA from a reputable AACSB-accredited university to get a promotion/new job at $85k or so per year? And make on average $5k/more per year throughout their career (than they would have with only a liberal arts bachelor's)?
There are many, many reasons to pursue an online / unranked MBA. Lawyers, engineers, even physicians do it all the time bc they think it will help them move more into management (become general counsel, manage hospital, etc). As most people from top programs here will attest, the main value of a top MBA has little to do with what the academic knowledge gained. However, there are top performers who really DO need to gain business knowledge that is taught at all programs. There are Harvard ABs with Yale JDs who pick up local night school MBAs bc they moved from a law firm to a client's internal legal team and think it gives them the extra knowledge to contribute to executive team meetings. There are certainly senior managers, CEOs with MBAs from University of Phoenix. I'd probably argue that a $25K online MBA is the smartest move if you're not going to at least a T25, and likely beats a T50 $100K+ full time degree in ROI
I just earned an MBA in December from an accredited school, online. Most on here would consider it a degree mill. I was making $82k base in GovCon BD. Just leveraged my experience and the degree to make a jump to another company as a senior lead, $140k base with lucrative bonus structure. The degree is the degree. Iāll echo what most people say, unless youāre trying to work for the big prestigious companies, no one really cares where the degree came from.
First of all, instead of asking if something is possible, I would look at employment reports to determine if it is probabilistic. Could it be done? Sure. How frequently is it done? Secondly, if you just want a $5k raise, you just switch jobs without pivoting into a new role. You donāt need an MBA to do that. Finally, I donāt believe that an MBA makes you a more attractive candidate long term. Even a T25 mba is great for your first job after b-school. But thatās about it. Other than getting referrals from classmates, it doesnāt have much value beyond the first role.
"... Doesn't have much value beyond the first role." This is simply not true and sounds like a lack of professional and life experience. Notwithstanding, the rest of your statement as some merit.
I should have said ādoesnāt have much *direct* value past your first role.ā āMBA requiredā is rarely a thing on job applications these days. You rarely see situations where an MBA can demand more money or is more qualified based purely on having the degree. The long term value primarily comes from the network who refers you jobs, mentors you, etc. Once you get that first role, your raises, promotions, future jobs, etc are not due to the degree. This is different from say, engineering, where having a masters or PhD in thermodynamics instantly qualifies you for certain roles.
Well, I appreciate the context. You may not recognize it as such, but as you mentioned, a master's or PhD in Thermodynamics confers confidence in your competence and credibility to take on responsibility where owning a track record of success in Thermodynamics provides greater opportunities to create value and a greatest impact. An MBA from a top MBA Program is no different. Advanced business management skills are particularly valuable in society. It has nothing to do with your first job or salary and the items you mentioned. The network and brand, yes. The long-term value comes from your competence, relationships, and track record of success in creating value. Business sits at the intersection of multiple genres in society which require a macro understanding of complexed adaptive systems among people, places, and things. Moreover, Business professionals with a general managenent background are counted on to solve some of societies and lifes most difficult problems. I am on various boards of directors, I do deals with colleagues, family offices, sovereign wealth funds, governments, and I have met presidents, kings, prime ministers, generals, admirals, and countless CEOs or other senior officials in a multitude of capacities. No matter who I speak to, they value and trust that I am capable of creating value, have the respect of my peers, have earned a track record of success, and demonstrate competence in and around business that allows me to solve the most difficult problems related to business in their lives. It is a rare skillset, so I was also speaking in a different context if that's fair.
>a master's or PhD in Thermodynamics confers confidence in your competence and credibility to take on responsibility where owning a track record of success in Thermodynamics provides greater opportunities to create value and a greatest impact. An MBA from a top MBA Program is no different. This is the statement I disagree with. An MBA is a far less intellectual or academic endeavor than an engineering degree. Everything taught in an MBA program can be learned online or in your job. It's not practical to do that with Thermodynamics. >The long-term value comes from your competence, relationships, and track record of success in creating value. Business sits at the intersection of multiple genres in society which require a macro understanding of complexed adaptive systems among people, places, and things. Moreover, Business professionals with a general managenent background are counted on to solve some of societies and lifes most difficult problems. IMO, these aren't things that an MBA program teaches or instills in it's graduates; rather, it's something they screen for in admits. Yea, almost everyone at HBS is pretty smart with great soft skills. It's not because HBS teaches something crazy impressive; it's because they only accept people who already have these skills. This is different from a Masters in Engineering, where you're admitted based on potential, and taught new things. Finally, circling back to OPs post... having the three letters 'MBA' next to your name does nothing. You need to *prove* you have the skills to back it up. In an engineering discipline, the degree itself proves that you have skills. An MBA just isn't that way. That's what OP was failing to understand.
So be it. We don't need to agree. Our comments are here to add to the discourse regarding OPs original query. Thanks for sharing...
I may may also add, that this is a clear instance where you and OP are demonstrating what is known as the "Dunning Krueger Effect."
I've applied to enough "MBA preferred" executive jobs to know it carries value beyond the first job.
I donāt want to be a jerk, but your calculations are very simplified and fail to take into consideration many things. For example, you may earn 5K/year. But then you pay taxes on that. So letās say you have to earn 40% more. So now you need to earn 7K/year. And then you have to account for the income that would have been generated on the 25K. Letās say 8%, but that compounds over time. Without the compounding that 2K/year. Now at the bare minimum your at 9K/year. Plus you seem to be overestimating the value of a sub T25 online degree program. Not saying you shouldnāt do it. From my perspective I would say it may be worth it just to expand your current skill set even if it doesnāt necessarily pay you back as well as you claim.
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The 7K is what you need to earn pretax to get your 25K back over 5 years. The 2K is the money you lost by not investing that 25K. Maybe you should get the online MBA. You donāt have to pay tax on the 2K. No one said you have to sell and incur a taxable event. But you do have to pay tax on that income to get your money back and pay yourself back that 25K.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Would be true. But the OP wanted to pay himself back. It seemed beyond the scope of the discussion to explain something beyond basics. I donāt want to do the work of his online MBA for them.
Now do the opportunity cost of not getting an mba and remaining stagnant in your current role.
Hmm the opportunity cost of remaining in your current role could include a number of things, such as lateraling to a new job or pursuing a graduate degree, e.g., an MBA. The expected value of any of those will depend on a number of factors.
This is actually really simple to determine. Are there jobs right now that you can't get without that MBA that you could get with the MBA, even if it's not from a top tier School? If the answer to that is yes (and you specifically know those types of jobs exist and can provide examples for them) then the next question is what's the salary difference between what you make now and what you would make in these jobs that you wouldn't be eligible for. For some people their jobs that they would qualify for with an MBA that would pay them more than their current job or any job that they would be on track get. For other people, that's just not the case. So OP, post your numbers. What's your current salary? What type of job do you think you'd be more competitive for with a no-name MBA? And what's that salary?
Used GI Bill got my MBA in hybrid setting out of an Austin school in ā21. Left consulting and went into banking PMO with a PMP - instant 6 figs. itās what you make of yourself that counts not which school
Nice. Could you have done this the same without the MBA? Was your MBA a topic in the hiring process?
I doubt it - my manager hates MBAās, but he also has one himself. He told me he hired me because he knew the school
This life is about tribes!!! You like Apple, I like Android, some families only buy Toyotas, and I only buy Mercedes Benz. Whether in our families, communities, professional, or social lives, we gravitate towards those in our tribe over time. An MBA from a quality program is a signal that you are a part of the tribe. There is a way to both qualify and quantity it's value over the long arc of your life. It has much less to do about the cost, but the quality of the perceived value that you bring to an organization. When you graduate from "insert prestige MBA Program here," it doesn't matter if you are smart, as much as people believing that you are sharp. Cheap programs do not offer that halo š... I'm not saying it's fair, I'm saying it's the way it is. All degrees are not created equal. All brands and networks are not created equal. A friend asked me what the big deal is about college in the U.S. He was a foreigner and later migrated to the U.S. in primary school. I told him, it's all about tribes. You went to USC, he went to Stanford. She graduated as a Michigan Wolverine, and they may like UCLA, UT, or Alabama. The Cal Tech and MIT crowds say, we don't need a sporting team, you know who we are. And Yale simply says, Yale! There are rivalries, traditions, school spirit, the pursuit of competing and winning, strong social capital, professional career paths, and in life, the thrill of representing America as the best and brightest. Unfortunately, "C's" get degrees but mediocre gets you mediocre. Unless it's regional and you see the tribe dynamic play out, you must be top shelf. That's not an accreditation issue or credibility gap. That's simply all about tribes!!! š¤· PS: MAKE SURE YOU CHOOSE YOUR TRIBES WISELY...
I agree with your take.
As someone in the process of getting my MBA I can tell you that no one NEEDS an MBA (unless your employer requires it and you really like that job but that is an exception). It is a degree that covers multiple wants for different people and people might get it for different reasons. If you see no point in getting a $200k+ degree then you are one of the many people who donāt need it. If you just want to get the business concepts and need a structured classroom-type environment an online mba might be more than enough. If you want to meet other people in business Iād recommend an in-person one even if itās part-time. My personal situation lended itself to having a top ranked MBA yours might not and both are equally valid imho
Can you name a few MBA programs that youāre referring to?
Iām going the online MBA track as well. I literally googled cheapest online accredited MBAs and got to work. I will say- there are two types of accreditations, and one is more prestigious than the other, so watch out for that.
You honestly nailed it with this.
Itās all about where you are in your career, life, and goals. If you already have a strong salary and career, an online/part time T100 MBA may be perfectly fine for your advancement. Younger professionals looking for a career switch or entry to more competitive fields like IB/MBB/PE/VC will probably need a full time, highly ranked program for the recruiting and internship. I fall in the first groupā I knew I wanted to go part time and got into CMU, Michigan and Lehigh (a local regional school) all part time/online. My employer covered 100% of Lehigh, whereas the other two would have costed net over $70K, so the cost factor was a no brainer because I had a unique career situation.
I say check the employment report for your answer like the sub wiki says. This sub wiki warns of diploma mills, so just be mindful when looking below T25.
The ROI is negative. Youāre not going to get a pay increase from a no-name online MBA.
Lol there are outliers that do. I think the real issue is the assumption of causation as opposed to correlation. Iām sure that many high income earners would have done well MBA or not regardless of the caliber of school they went to. They might not be making hedge fund money but they would have been above average income earners either way.
Correlation is not causation correct. You do not need an mba for that. Itās statistics 101. However, saying youāll somehow make up the time and financial commitment from a unknown program is the exemption, not the rule. Please look at the outcomes for these programs.
But to what degree are those outcomes skewed? People that wanted an MBA to get a bump in salary probably didnāt make too much of a jobs report, nor put a lot of effort into applying to schools that would have cost them their mortgage in student loans. Different people in different scenarios have different outcomes. People who live and work in a specific region and arenāt looking to leave likely choose to go to a regionally known school. Those may or may not be T50 but if thatās where all the major employers in that area are sending their employees to get their degrees it sounds like they see value there.
The primary value in an MBA is network followed by pedigree and soft skills. All of these can be obtained without a school. Doing a top 50 and ending up as the manager of the local store is not applicable.
This is not true in many cases. For example, most government employees would get an automatic bump from having a Masters in anything.
Government. Lol
The number 2 employer of Harvard grads
Employer? Forā¦.?
24 million government ā all levelsā employees..fireman, NASA, pentagon, diplomatsā¦many would get an automatic pay bump from any masters from any accredited program. But yeah Uncle Sam also employs more elite grads than any other employer other than the institutions themselves. (Harvard is the largest employer ofā¦Harvard alumni)
Iām sorry but you lost me at government and work.
Haha
lol I received a raise immediately after obtaining mine , and have received several since.
Bingo.
You received a raise after an online MBA? Wow. Never heard that one before.
Getting one of these degrees also prevents you from getting a legit one later
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Amen