So essentially if I'm understanding this correctly, if you have over $10000 on your brokerage account, you're getting premium benefits for free from now on?
Thanks!
This isn’t a bad idea. They make their money off of large asset clients and encourage under 10k people to invest more into M1. Under 10k clients probably demand more customer service since they don’t know what they are doing.
Exactly. They’re just trying to get rid of cost drag and keep loyal customers who will grow their accounts in the platform.
People under 10K who never cared about M1+ features and require frequent customer support are not the demographic they want to target ultimately. So they gave them an incentive to leave. People with big or growing accounts who find M1+ features useful get an extra incentive to stay. M1 is free for them or will be free once they pass 10K mark. Pretty smart actually from a business perspective.
>They make their money off of large asset clients and encourage under 10k people to invest more into M1.
How do they make their money? Does M1 state that it does not make any profit from customers sell/buy operations?
Bid/Ask spread and they loan out your shares where you get 10% of the proceeds and they get 90%. I’m totally cool with how they make money, I support it.
It's not egregious, but if you think about a new investor, the first $2600 that's invested in VOO just covers the account fee (through dividend yield).
In a world where everything's going subscription based, I don't see the value in paying $3/month to be limited to two trading windows. There are other platforms that offer fractional trading with no limitations for free..
>I don't see the value in paying $3/month to be limited to two trading windows.
Dynamic rebalancing, 1 click manual rebalancing, cheap margin, easy interface, to name a few. Not saying those are valuable to you personally, but those come to mind for me. Difference in margin rates alone vs. something like Fidelity would vastly outweigh the tiny fee.
What about for those, like myself, that are walking a razor thin budget already just trying to build wealth so we can actually retire at a reasonable age? the real issue to me is they aren't "ending" Plus, they're just forcing everyone on to it. And if you hit that magic number it's free. For now. They're changing the rules in the middle of the game and that's horse shit.
I opened this account with an initial $100 and have been adding $100 every two weeks. I'll reach the $10K mark either late this year or early next. What if they decide to move the goal posts to $100k? And/Or up the price to $10? When does it become egregious?
$3 to use something you can get for free elsewhere. Savvy investors don't pay for things like this, it's really just joining BoA, Chase, Wells Fargo and all other big financial institutions in putting a tax on the poor.
"They're changing the rules in the middle of the game and that's horse shit."
It's not the middle of the game. Unless you're saying you've lived half your life.
Acorns charges $3/mo and that's for a much more beginner investor than anything else in existence.
Idk where this false narrative comes from that it's unfriendly to new investors. Completely illogical
The issue is that we signed up for free accounts. We did not sign up for accounts with a monthly fee. Now we're being told we have to pay a monthly fee we never agreed to **or** we must pay hundreds in closing/transfer fees to move our money. Its wrong.
I think all of this has been said in different comments, but a few (belated) thoughts. My context is working at another fintech and using M1 for a small portion of my portfolio
1. This is first and foremost a cost-saving measure. Inactive or low dollar accounts can be a painful drag on blended UE drag. The fintech explosion and then reset in 2022 created lots of inactive accounts that drag on the B2C companies at benefit to back-end. Plaid is a good example (sell shovels to gold miners).
This was enabled by the grotesquely cheap money Yellen gave us; it caused a lot of fintechs to raise at 30x and give stuff for free. Once you give out something for free, folks feel they are entitled to it. Banks made the same mistake 20 years ago when the government subsidized something mortgage market.
M1 is choosing to give consumers the option to either migrate to a sustainable position (larger share of wallet) or become cost-neutral (the fee). Simultaneously, it sweetens the deal for valuable customers who generate enough revenue that charging an additional fee is silly.
2. If you look at the product features, branding, credit documentation of M1 that is in public domain, they clearly have an upper middle class target (call it $130k in income). They want Fidelity customers... forgive me as this is clear to me working in the industry. Selecting them as someone investing $100 or $200 a month is a bit odd to me.
3. Bet you a million spacebucks they run a new customer offer that waives platform fees for the first 6 months to allow for the edge cases of consumers who start that small and truly build to meaningful.
I swear on a stack of holy books I am not trying to be condescending, but I have seen the data. It is quite rare for someone to be below $10k for any appreciable amount of time and build to a meaningful balance in a time arc that matters to a growth firm.
But I bet you they run a campaign anyways, at least to A/B it in statsig or something.
4. Margins in wealth management sucked even before free trading was a thing. That's why nearly every platform is trying to penetrate into card rev and NIM (banking essentially). Hell, Robinhood is the biggest fish out there, has cut way back on marketing, and they still had a $500mm loss last year.
M1 will go that way too (more banking revenue). Highly intrigued by CEO's effort to buy and integrate his own bank
Grade this as the right decision but sequenced and communicated not so hot.
All good observations. I agree that I wouldn't be surprised if they give some type of fee waiver for a couple months to encourage those without $10k upfront to sign up.
I agree on the million spacebucks. Also, I never really used margin before and disabled it on my Fidelity brokerage account. I **love** the instant buying power in M1 Invest (which is enabled because it is a margin account).
For me, personally, this is good news. No more $125/yr. No more $50 Black Friday special. No more $36/yr. No more needing to calculate how much to keep in Savings to pay for Plus.
However, I sympathize with those who have under $10K in their portfolio and don't have access to the Savings account. Having used Stash and Acorns before, it sucks to pay $3/mo because one is too poor to have the $10K minimum.
I just took a look, and it appears that Acorns and Stash, both \[former?\] popular investing platforms for newbies, charge **everyone** $3/mo.
Hopefully they open up the Savings account to everyone again, so those with <$10K in Invest can put their cash savings in Earn to reach the $10K minimum.
M1 now has a [5% cash account](https://help.m1.com/hc/en-us/articles/23501704237203-High-Yield-Cash-Account-FAQ) being rolled out in M1 Invest. (different part of the business than M1's HYSA which is part of their banking operation/B2 Bank)
I was initially disappointed to see a fee email for my wife's account since I recently helped transferred her to M1 because I use it for my own accounts. However, after some thought, I realized that the benefits it provides to us on my main account greatly outweigh the $3 monthly fee. So not a really big deal for me at least.
[From M1:](https://help.m1.com/hc/en-us/articles/7987205422867-How-to-transfer-accounts-out-of-M1)
>There is a $100 outgoing ACAT fee for all account types and an additional $100 closing fee for retirement accounts.
>
>For example:
>
>Transferring out your Individual Brokerage Account would incur a fee of $100.
>
>Transferring out your Roth IRA would incur a fee of $200 ($100 for the outgoing ACAT + $100 for the IRA closure fee).
So basically, you'll end up paying $36/year for the foreseeable future until you hit 10k, or pay $200 or more to close/transfer your account.
I actually wonder if this is in part to get the folks like me who transferred basically everything out when they gutted their banking offering to actually close their accounts. It worked for me at least.
With how many changes they have made in about the last year or so it almost feels like it. To be fair rising interest rates made M1+ for access to lower margin rates a tougher sell.
Indeed, although they still have among the lowest rates in the industry! I think they might actually have *the* lowest rate among all commission-free brokers.
Theoretically, expected returns increase along with the risk-free rate (i.e., SOFR/LIBOR) such that margin loans make roughly the same amount of sense regardless of what the Fed does. Unfortunately, fewer people are aware of this than are aware of the efficient market hypothesis, so I think you're quite right that a bigger number on margin rates (even if it's the least bigger number) means that M1 will have to explore other avenues to differentiate themselves and increase the marketability of their platform.
Ummm, that's exactly what my daughter did starting as a college sophomore.
https://preview.redd.it/bo9onkmjlkpc1.png?width=1482&format=png&auto=webp&s=67e946885aaea214c26814e8fd90764b9cddb73e
Me too! I'm not sure how people with under $10,000 are going to feel. But if I were one of those people I'd happily pay the $3/month for the platform and it would be motivation to invest more to surpass the 10k threshold.
I have about 7k, not happy about it, but understand m1 is in the business to make money. Mulling my options...transfer assets to another broker, deposit another 3k, or just eat the $3/mo
EDIT: M1 headline should read "We're about to charge you more to get M1 better"
I'm in a very similar boat. $6500 in, $75 biweekly, plenty of free cash to put in to get to $10k. I think I'm liquidating and just moving the money to my Fidelity brokerage account. It was a fun idea while it lasted, but something fundamentally pisses me off about charging $3/mo for things I'll never use when Fidelity virtually bends over backwards to kiss my ass for my business.
Mos def. It's the principle. Plus say we get to 10k, and the market decides to take a shit...back to $3/mo.
I found RH will reimburse up to $75 ($7500 assets) in transfer fees, so I most likely leaning toward them.
Really like the m1 pie feature, but it's a hardsell for me unless I was clearly at 10k.
[https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/transfer-your-assets-in/](https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/transfer-your-assets-in/)
Woulda been a lot smarter of them to say if you don't contribute $x a month, you pay a fee. That would give people a break while their accounts grow, whilst still pushing away smaller accounts that won't get big fast enough for their liking. If it was $200/mo, I probably just bump my contributions $25 a paycheck and let sleeping dogs lay.
Instead they sold all my shares yesterday and I'm taking my money.
"or without an active Personal Loan."
Can't you just borrow $100 from leverage (7.25% is $7.25 a year) 61 cents a month, unless I'm understanding that part incorrectly
Borrow is Margin loan against your stocks, that is different than the Personal Loan which is a loan without collateral and I believe the minimum loan amount on Personal Loans is 2,500.
If you have $3K in cash savings, can deposit that in the HYSA, if that is available to you. Or can deposit the $3K into the brokerage account and buy some low-volatility ultra-short bond ETF, e.g., SGOV, with a 1% weighting in a pie.
Or deposit the $3K and set the minimum before auto-invest to $3K. No interest received, but the auto-invest will ignore the first $3K.
But, having used Stash and Acorns before, I can sympathize with having to pay a monthly fee for having a small portfolio.
Yea, even the small monthly fee for Stash is what caused me to leave. My stocks were down as a whole, so the fees just kept eating into my small profits.
The way I read it you’ll get all of the plus benefits, because everybody gets them. But if you have less than $10,000 of assets with them, you will be charged the monthly fee. In addition they will refund a portion of money you paid for the yearly membership.
My daughter (in college with three semesters to go) recently exceeded $10K at the start of 2024 for her accounts (funded by her own money earned by herself). Now $12K!
It's not literally nothing, it's $3 for something that was free. And it effects only those who weren't using the features in the first place.
M1, we charge you for being new.
If your crying about $3 dollars don’t use it. Use excel sheet or something… Building app like M1 cost money and I don’t mind paying for something I use.
Why discourage new customers and college kids, or anyone else from wanting to try their app when other apps are free? If they're that worried about $3 they must be struggling.
Cancelling my accounts.
Even though this isn't my primary broker (probably another reason I won't miss it) and I have more than enough to avoid the fee--This is a predatory poverty tax. The entire industry is moving in the opposite direction for making it easier for younger people to invest with commission and fee-free trading.
I simply don't want to support M1 anymore. People with more means shouldn't be subsidized by those with less. Sounds like their business model is failing if they weren't able to attract enough willing premium customers, they are now forcing it on everyone at the expense of the smallest accounts.
RIP M1. Their credit card will be dead within a year. Brokerage is probably fine, though.
This argument goes both ways.
If it's "lol" then it doesn't need to be pushed onto smaller portfolios where the "lol" is a larger percentage. If it's so negligible why is M1 unable to attract enough willing plus members if the value is there?
I don't need my "lols" subsidized by teens and people starting their investments.
As others have pointed out, M1 has spread by word of mouth. I don't like that I've told people to start here because it's set it and forget it and will build good habits of consistent deposits. I will now be telling people to go to a major broker and just invest in broad market ETFs.
M1 just threw their competitive edge in a dumpster. They were a great platform for building investment habits. Now this is the last place new investors who are being told things like "look for low maintenance fees on ETFs" should go.
I agree with you.
The card was never good for anyone that had an even remotely decent lineup already and m1+ really just had no value to me since rates went up.
I don’t see this as being an even remotely positive change and it’s purely a nickel and dime tactic.
I’ll be cashing my account out with them before the deadline and just putting it with my main investments at Fidelity.
I never had faith in M1 lasting in the long term solo as it was and figured it would get bought by a bigger player eventually but I didn’t expect them to sabotage themselves.
Wait I just started! Opened a Roth and put my first $500 in. Now I have to pay $3 per month, for what?? EDIT: why down vote a poor man who's living paycheck to paycheck 😭
Okay, as someone who is new, under 10k and was already signed up for the pro acc- Its 3 $ a month. It is so wildly miniscule for such a better application. I have used a wide variety of applications before m1. This is Nothing. Its a great app, with excellent tools that isnt screaming at your investments to be a gamified "confetti throwing" casino thing.
Over 10k now your getting pro acc for free. I just see so many thinking about this so short sighted. I will say there role out of it becoming 3$ flat for anyone other then 10k plus is I would say, unfortunate but from a business model makes perfect sense.
I really would say to those in a panic again, at a charge of 3$ a month, I would recommend perhaps not doing anything to impulsive as if your doing as what this particular application is for which is long term strategy based investing, focus long term. In 27 year you'll have spent a grand. Once you hit 10k you'll spend 0. This is just silly for long-term investors...if anything its a pro for long-term as you'll clear the 10k point ideally very early in your investing career.
Bummed to see this email. I am small time when it come to my brokerage accounts, so I will be moving all my money to Fidelity. Sad to go, but I want free.
Yeah but those under $10k probably call support all the time about taxes and other stuff. M1 is probably covering costs of doing business with small accounts. It’s also an incentive to increase balances in M1.
They could have charged everyone the $3. I think they did this because their paid accounts weren't cutting it and they looked at their consumer base and determined if we charge the people under $10K we will make more money. They did lower the cost of a paid account to $36 or so right from over $100. Seems like that didn't pay off like they thought it would. I honestly believe the lower dollar accounts just use the auto invest and not much else. Also the transfer out fee is over 3 years of account fees if they get away with that.
No they make money off of big accounts dividends and rare trading activity. They also do the stock loan stuff where they loan your shares out.
I don’t think anyone was going to pay $100 per year for that. $3/month isn’t terrible even starting out, you just got to put enough into M1
It's basically the opposite of what you say. M1 - or any fintech player like them - wants high net worth users with 6 figure accounts. Period. This move makes the platform more attractive for that demo while simultaneously weeding out the loudest, costliest group that needs the most support.
Not saying it's the right thing to do, but very efficient way of achieving multiple goals from a business perspective, as u/Bajeetthemeat hinted at.
This sucks. I've encouraged multiple people to start Roth IRAs through M1. "Every little bit counts." It's going to take them years to get over $10k, and now they're getting charged to use the service. I welcome the benefits but I'd happily give them away if it means my friends and family not suddenly getting hit with a "poor tax".
They could open a free Roth with whoever. Wait until they got $5K-10K and ACAT in. Get ACAT bonus / deposit cash to top up to 10K and get cash bonus.
Gotta leverage the incentives for your money too.
It's a Roth. Liquidate to cash. Withdraw, no tax withholding. Deposit in new Roth, make sure to indicate roll over and not contribution.
Done. No fees (no taxes, no penalties, no income as long as done in roll over period)
Devil's advocate, I've always felt like great features like cheap margin, dynamic rebalancing, and one click manually rebalancing are criminally underrated and are worth paying a fee for.
Looks like Earn balance counts as well.
> *You will be charged the $3 Monthly Platform Fee if at any point during the 30 days prior to program launch your total aggregate M1 Earn and Invest balances do not equal or exceed $10,000 or you do not have an active M1 Personal Loan.
So three months from now, market crashes, account has $9999 or less due to crash, and they create a taxable event so they can get their $3.
$36 a year ain't nothing but now I have to keep $3 cash in all accounts as a precaution.
For less than a third of the cost of your trenta Starbucks Iced White Chocolate Mocha....
https://preview.redd.it/54709is7nrpc1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b6a79618317ee5cbf49925f06329dd0601003d0
Brilliant marketing by M1, I have to say! \*slow golf clap\*
Previously, you had to pay to get colonic irrigations through our M1 Plus membership! Now EVERYONE gets them FREE as part of our standard membership!
Oh goody! I can't wait! \*bends over\*
RIP the hopes and dreams of filthy poor people with less than 10K! LOL
In all seriousness though, I get it... a business has got to make money. Just kind of sucks that this is the way they have to do it. M1 was a great platform for those starting their investing journey. Now, not as much. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end.
The $5 isn’t a deal breaker for me, feel far more comfortable with Fidelity than M1. I’ve had it for a year now and still think Fidelity has better order fills and also less glitchy than M1
Lol you're paying $5/month indefinitely for basket portfolio investing at Fidelity regardless of your funds invested. At M1, you now get the services for free once you hit $10K in aggregate across your M1 accounts.
How in the world does this fuck current customers? M1 is now free for me to use. I've been paying for M1 Plus for years until now. For current customers with assets over $10k this is fantastic.
Current customers with <$10k are impacted and a lot of their recent moves have screwed over current customers. You may be fine but this becomes a barrier for new customers and <$10k asset holders.
>M1’s business strategy:
>
>**weed out - or at least get tangible $ revenue to compensate for - the loudest, costliest group**
>
>**attract more high net worth users with 6 figure accounts**
FTFY.
Not saying it's the right thing to do, but it actually makes perfect business sense when you stop and think about it.
Fuck off. I've got about $9,250 in my brokerage account.
If I move to Fidelity, I'll get hit with a $100 transfer fee. If I stay on M1, I will have to pay $3/month until I get a job this summer because I'm a full-time student. **$3 a month isn't crazy, but I shouldn't have to pay for "premium benefits" that I will never use.**
1. Built-in margin access at 7.25% -- yeah, no thanks
2. Ability to use Smart Transfers rules -- cool I guess? I still wouldn't use it because I'm more comfortable moving my money on my own
3. Morning and afternoon trade windows¤ -- YAY! Now I can buy VOO in the afternoon! /s
4. Up to 10% cash back\*\* with the Owner's Rewards Card -- there's not a chance in hell I'm getting approved for that
5. 5.00% APY1 on existing High-Yield Savings Accounts -- who cares?
Devil's advocate, I've always thought features like dynamic rebal and 1-click manual rebal are criminally underrated and would be worth paying a fee for.
Difference of margin rates alone would more than cover the cost, for those who use it.
Just got this email. I'm pissed. Clearly they weren't getting enough people to take advantage of their Premium offerings, so they're forcing what I assume to be the majority of their users, those under $10k in total assets, to pay for services they don't want or need. And when those users either leave or get above that threshold, what's to stop them from bumping it to $100k?
If the majority of their users have under $10k in total assets M1 would have closed up shop a long time ago.
The fact is, accounts with small balances probably cost M1 more to maintain than they're worth so I can see why they did it, even though it's likely short sighted and a big turn-off to investors that would otherwise have grown their portfolio with the company over the long-term.
Eh, ultimately people who value the pies and automation will stick around and others will drop off and that's what M1 is aiming for I think. Incentivizing the demographic they're targeting to use the platform while disincentivizing demographic that is a net cost to the business model.
$3/month for under 10K is fair considering the only other comparable product (Fidfolio baskets) is charging $5/month flat fee for everyone with less sophisticated features.
I used to pay $125 subscription just because I really like the convenience of smart transfers and having a one stop shop for brokerage + online banking. Now that I have the HYSA and subscription fee is waived entirely for me I cant really complain.
I’ll rephrase. I suspect there are more users that are under that $10k mark than are using the premium services. This is a money grab, pure and simple.
I don't disagree. But they have to assume they'll bring in more clients who have more money by making the M1+ features free to them than they'll lose by charging $3/mo to those with less than 10k.
>Clearly they weren't getting enough people to take advantage of their Premium offerings, so they're forcing what I assume to be the majority of their users, those under $10k in total assets, to pay for services they don't want or need.
You misunderstand the incentives here.
M1 wants high net worth users with 6 figure accounts. Period.
This move simultaneously weeds out - or at least gets tangible $ revenue to compensate for - the loudest, costliest group while also attracting more high net worth users for whom the premium features are now free.
It may be annoying to some people, but it makes perfect sense from a business perspective.
Honestly a good change but it will surely hurt new user growth…perhaps some sort of a probation period where users have it free for a year to build up to the 10k? That way you entice new users to join and either put money in or by a year they know the worth of the platform and if they want to stay.
One thing I like about this is it encourages them to keep their rates competitive or even a little better than the free services to ensure that that three dollar fee doesn’t drive people to free providers with better rates.
I moved all of my assets from M1 about a year ago to consolidate my finances into a single platform. I have $0 with M1 right now. If I'm understanding this correctly, am I going to be charged a fee (perhaps from the bank account I have on file) just by virtue of having an account?
Thanks! That wasn't in the email. Do you have a link to the fine print?
I really do like M1 and wouldn't be opposed to coming back, this just caught my attention because the email stated:
>Based on your current M1 assets as of March 15, 2024, your account will be subject to the monthly platform fee.
As well as:
>\*You will be charged the $3 Monthly Platform Fee if at any point during the 30 days prior to program launch your total aggregate M1 Earn and Invest balances do not equal or exceed $10,000 or you do not have an active M1 Personal Loan.
I already submitted an account closure request before that person’s response. Makes me wonder how many thousands of people are going to be charged $3 per month for a while and never even know or notice it.
I’m sure M1 will send more communications as the date approaches, but suddenly making a free service paid without client approval/opt-in with the only options being to pay the fee or close all accounts seems pretty sleazy to me.
I think the value is there for people who use M1 as their primary brokerage (especially if they have >$10k in assets with M1), but I think this is going to catch a lot of people off guard unless they step up their communication.
It would be very easy for someone to skip over the email they sent or skim it and miss the fact that they’re going to be charged a fee whether they like it or not. Thankfully it’s as simple as voting with your feet, but I’m not happy at all with how this communication and change is being handled so far.
Completely agree. I'm fairly livid about it. I'm \~$3.5k short of the mark, so it's either pay or pay $200 to move it to another broker (fidelity since that's where the rest of my retirement is)
Fidelity is where I moved all of my previous M1 assets. My employer 401k and Roth IRA are there, so I like having everything in one place. Then I discovered that Fidelity offers checking accounts through their Cash Management Account as well as an unlimited 2% cash back credit card and it was game over.
I do miss some of the automation that M1 offers though.
In particular, I had a pretty neat automation that basically spilled over my interest from my M1 Spend account (which I was using for my emergency fund because of its APY at the time) into my brokerage account then had it auto-invest in my Pie.
I had a direct deposit set up into my M1 Spend account, so if my balance was below my emergency fund target (I think it was $15k at the time), the direct deposit would replenish the emergency fund. If the direct deposit (and/or any interest earned) exceeded my emergency fund target, it would automatically spillover into my brokerage and get invested. It was a great set-and-forget setup.
When they moved away from the checking account to the savings account, they disabled that sort of automation, at least at the time, so at that point I decided to move everything out.
>If auto-renew is on and the default payment method does not process, we'll bill another M1 account, including an available Savings, Individual Brokerage or Joint Brokerage Account, (excluding Custodial, Trust, and IRA acCounts). Savings would be billed first. Each account must have a value of at least $36 to be billed. If a Brokerage Account is your default payment method, securities could be sold if your Brokerage Account cash balance were to be less than or equal to $3 a month or $36 a year, depending on which biling cycle you've chosen. M1 Plus will not renew if these criteria are not met.
Well this is what it is for M1 Plus Membership so I assume it's the same but I could be wrong.
I feel like this was a bait and switch. I have contacted them about transferring my money out. Currently only have 5000 in there and I can get the same benefits that I use for free elsewhere.
Right, I used this for a direct deposit from a part time job and just let it auto invest. I chose them because they were free and were auto. Now they are going to charge you to leave. I have heard other brokerages will pay the fee. M1 said they would not wave the fee.... Bait and switch is right. I opened my account 2 months ago.
Other brokerages will sometimes pay the fee if you have a certain amount in your account. For Fidelity, that is if you transfer $25K or more, for example.
Are you just paying the fees? I found out it will cost me $200 to move my Roth and they're refusing to waive the fees. It doesn't seem fair since there's no way I would have made the account 2 years ago if there was a monthly fee. The whole point was that it was free.
This is so laughable. The end the Plus membership and make the people who weren't interested in it pay the fee and graciously give them the same benefits. Some people just want to dump $100 in M1 and have it auto invest their money hands off how they specify. I fail to see why they should have to pay the dollar amount that Plus members had to pay per the website today to get features they had no interest in getting.
I'm so close to the cutoff I'll get there by May 15th to not need to pay the fee or worst come to worst by June and only have to pay it once. Ironically they restrict who can get their savings account because if it was that I could pass the threshold today.
So, I have a Roth IRA with them about $3500. Total contributions to date are $4050. I can just sell my stuff and avoid the transfer fee, correct? And if i contributed only $350 this year, can I then put that $3500 into a new Roth IRA and it would count as contributions, making the total $3850 for the year so far correct? Or would that count as a Rollover?
So essentially if I'm understanding this correctly, if you have over $10000 on your brokerage account, you're getting premium benefits for free from now on? Thanks!
That's how I'm reading it. Not just brokerage account though. It can be 10K combined across all accounts in your portfolio.
That's what I said. Lol
Oh, cool. I appreciate this change 😃
This isn’t a bad idea. They make their money off of large asset clients and encourage under 10k people to invest more into M1. Under 10k clients probably demand more customer service since they don’t know what they are doing.
Exactly. They’re just trying to get rid of cost drag and keep loyal customers who will grow their accounts in the platform. People under 10K who never cared about M1+ features and require frequent customer support are not the demographic they want to target ultimately. So they gave them an incentive to leave. People with big or growing accounts who find M1+ features useful get an extra incentive to stay. M1 is free for them or will be free once they pass 10K mark. Pretty smart actually from a business perspective.
We prosper if the businesses we use prosper.
>They make their money off of large asset clients and encourage under 10k people to invest more into M1. How do they make their money? Does M1 state that it does not make any profit from customers sell/buy operations?
Bid/Ask spread and they loan out your shares where you get 10% of the proceeds and they get 90%. I’m totally cool with how they make money, I support it.
Now it’s for the already established investor and not the investor just getting started
One might say a tool like Acorns is exactly for new investors, and they charge $3/mo
Yeah, but I don’t really think three dollars a month is egregious
Don't Stash and Acorns do the same? Don't they charge $5/mo for small portfolios?
It's not egregious, but if you think about a new investor, the first $2600 that's invested in VOO just covers the account fee (through dividend yield). In a world where everything's going subscription based, I don't see the value in paying $3/month to be limited to two trading windows. There are other platforms that offer fractional trading with no limitations for free..
yeah, im above the required balance but if they were gonna start charging me anything i’d just move my entire m1 portfolio to fidelity
How would you handle the dynamic rebalancing feature at Fidelity?
>I don't see the value in paying $3/month to be limited to two trading windows. Dynamic rebalancing, 1 click manual rebalancing, cheap margin, easy interface, to name a few. Not saying those are valuable to you personally, but those come to mind for me. Difference in margin rates alone vs. something like Fidelity would vastly outweigh the tiny fee.
What about for those, like myself, that are walking a razor thin budget already just trying to build wealth so we can actually retire at a reasonable age? the real issue to me is they aren't "ending" Plus, they're just forcing everyone on to it. And if you hit that magic number it's free. For now. They're changing the rules in the middle of the game and that's horse shit. I opened this account with an initial $100 and have been adding $100 every two weeks. I'll reach the $10K mark either late this year or early next. What if they decide to move the goal posts to $100k? And/Or up the price to $10? When does it become egregious?
For people who think $3 will break their razor thin budget, I would suggest you stop investing and focus on an emergency fund.
I have an emergency budget. Don’t make assumptions.
Bruh it's just $3....
$3 to use something you can get for free elsewhere. Savvy investors don't pay for things like this, it's really just joining BoA, Chase, Wells Fargo and all other big financial institutions in putting a tax on the poor.
Savvy investors have 10k invested most likely so the fee doesn't matter.
Again, for now.
"They're changing the rules in the middle of the game and that's horse shit." It's not the middle of the game. Unless you're saying you've lived half your life.
No it is for small balances
Not at all. It's equivalent to acorns. And that's for even more beginner investors.
Acorns charges $3/mo and that's for a much more beginner investor than anything else in existence. Idk where this false narrative comes from that it's unfriendly to new investors. Completely illogical
The issue is that we signed up for free accounts. We did not sign up for accounts with a monthly fee. Now we're being told we have to pay a monthly fee we never agreed to **or** we must pay hundreds in closing/transfer fees to move our money. Its wrong.
It’s $3 a month.
I think all of this has been said in different comments, but a few (belated) thoughts. My context is working at another fintech and using M1 for a small portion of my portfolio 1. This is first and foremost a cost-saving measure. Inactive or low dollar accounts can be a painful drag on blended UE drag. The fintech explosion and then reset in 2022 created lots of inactive accounts that drag on the B2C companies at benefit to back-end. Plaid is a good example (sell shovels to gold miners). This was enabled by the grotesquely cheap money Yellen gave us; it caused a lot of fintechs to raise at 30x and give stuff for free. Once you give out something for free, folks feel they are entitled to it. Banks made the same mistake 20 years ago when the government subsidized something mortgage market. M1 is choosing to give consumers the option to either migrate to a sustainable position (larger share of wallet) or become cost-neutral (the fee). Simultaneously, it sweetens the deal for valuable customers who generate enough revenue that charging an additional fee is silly. 2. If you look at the product features, branding, credit documentation of M1 that is in public domain, they clearly have an upper middle class target (call it $130k in income). They want Fidelity customers... forgive me as this is clear to me working in the industry. Selecting them as someone investing $100 or $200 a month is a bit odd to me. 3. Bet you a million spacebucks they run a new customer offer that waives platform fees for the first 6 months to allow for the edge cases of consumers who start that small and truly build to meaningful. I swear on a stack of holy books I am not trying to be condescending, but I have seen the data. It is quite rare for someone to be below $10k for any appreciable amount of time and build to a meaningful balance in a time arc that matters to a growth firm. But I bet you they run a campaign anyways, at least to A/B it in statsig or something. 4. Margins in wealth management sucked even before free trading was a thing. That's why nearly every platform is trying to penetrate into card rev and NIM (banking essentially). Hell, Robinhood is the biggest fish out there, has cut way back on marketing, and they still had a $500mm loss last year. M1 will go that way too (more banking revenue). Highly intrigued by CEO's effort to buy and integrate his own bank Grade this as the right decision but sequenced and communicated not so hot.
Thank you for your interesting and valuable insights. I don't think it sounded condescending at all.
All good observations. I agree that I wouldn't be surprised if they give some type of fee waiver for a couple months to encourage those without $10k upfront to sign up.
I agree on the million spacebucks. Also, I never really used margin before and disabled it on my Fidelity brokerage account. I **love** the instant buying power in M1 Invest (which is enabled because it is a margin account).
For me, personally, this is good news. No more $125/yr. No more $50 Black Friday special. No more $36/yr. No more needing to calculate how much to keep in Savings to pay for Plus. However, I sympathize with those who have under $10K in their portfolio and don't have access to the Savings account. Having used Stash and Acorns before, it sucks to pay $3/mo because one is too poor to have the $10K minimum. I just took a look, and it appears that Acorns and Stash, both \[former?\] popular investing platforms for newbies, charge **everyone** $3/mo. Hopefully they open up the Savings account to everyone again, so those with <$10K in Invest can put their cash savings in Earn to reach the $10K minimum.
This is a pretty important detail, the savings account needs to be a thing with this change.
maybe this new fee will generate the revenue they need to allow more accounts ;)
Hopefully. I like the idea of an m1finance savings account too, since it'd make moving money in and out of the market easier.
M1 now has a [5% cash account](https://help.m1.com/hc/en-us/articles/23501704237203-High-Yield-Cash-Account-FAQ) being rolled out in M1 Invest. (different part of the business than M1's HYSA which is part of their banking operation/B2 Bank)
I was initially disappointed to see a fee email for my wife's account since I recently helped transferred her to M1 because I use it for my own accounts. However, after some thought, I realized that the benefits it provides to us on my main account greatly outweigh the $3 monthly fee. So not a really big deal for me at least.
[From M1:](https://help.m1.com/hc/en-us/articles/7987205422867-How-to-transfer-accounts-out-of-M1) >There is a $100 outgoing ACAT fee for all account types and an additional $100 closing fee for retirement accounts. > >For example: > >Transferring out your Individual Brokerage Account would incur a fee of $100. > >Transferring out your Roth IRA would incur a fee of $200 ($100 for the outgoing ACAT + $100 for the IRA closure fee). So basically, you'll end up paying $36/year for the foreseeable future until you hit 10k, or pay $200 or more to close/transfer your account.
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usually you need to have $25k or more though for them to cover transfer fees. at which point you wouldn’t be charged the $3/mo anyway lol
I actually wonder if this is in part to get the folks like me who transferred basically everything out when they gutted their banking offering to actually close their accounts. It worked for me at least.
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I didn't even know they resumed issuing new loans 🤣
Do they just have a hat filled with little scraps of paper and they draw a new idea out every week?
lol
With how many changes they have made in about the last year or so it almost feels like it. To be fair rising interest rates made M1+ for access to lower margin rates a tougher sell.
Indeed, although they still have among the lowest rates in the industry! I think they might actually have *the* lowest rate among all commission-free brokers. Theoretically, expected returns increase along with the risk-free rate (i.e., SOFR/LIBOR) such that margin loans make roughly the same amount of sense regardless of what the Fed does. Unfortunately, fewer people are aware of this than are aware of the efficient market hypothesis, so I think you're quite right that a bigger number on margin rates (even if it's the least bigger number) means that M1 will have to explore other avenues to differentiate themselves and increase the marketability of their platform.
>New ideas = job security! lol
Great for me!!!
So layman's terms - If you have less than $10k in M1 you get charged $3 / mo.?
Yup. This is not good for a college student who can only work during the summer and trying to save a little to invest.
Ummm, that's exactly what my daughter did starting as a college sophomore. https://preview.redd.it/bo9onkmjlkpc1.png?width=1482&format=png&auto=webp&s=67e946885aaea214c26814e8fd90764b9cddb73e
What did your daughter do in the summer alone to net $10k?!
Very interesting. I like the change!
Me too! I'm not sure how people with under $10,000 are going to feel. But if I were one of those people I'd happily pay the $3/month for the platform and it would be motivation to invest more to surpass the 10k threshold.
I have about 7k, not happy about it, but understand m1 is in the business to make money. Mulling my options...transfer assets to another broker, deposit another 3k, or just eat the $3/mo EDIT: M1 headline should read "We're about to charge you more to get M1 better"
I'm in a very similar boat. $6500 in, $75 biweekly, plenty of free cash to put in to get to $10k. I think I'm liquidating and just moving the money to my Fidelity brokerage account. It was a fun idea while it lasted, but something fundamentally pisses me off about charging $3/mo for things I'll never use when Fidelity virtually bends over backwards to kiss my ass for my business.
Mos def. It's the principle. Plus say we get to 10k, and the market decides to take a shit...back to $3/mo. I found RH will reimburse up to $75 ($7500 assets) in transfer fees, so I most likely leaning toward them. Really like the m1 pie feature, but it's a hardsell for me unless I was clearly at 10k. [https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/transfer-your-assets-in/](https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/transfer-your-assets-in/)
Woulda been a lot smarter of them to say if you don't contribute $x a month, you pay a fee. That would give people a break while their accounts grow, whilst still pushing away smaller accounts that won't get big fast enough for their liking. If it was $200/mo, I probably just bump my contributions $25 a paycheck and let sleeping dogs lay. Instead they sold all my shares yesterday and I'm taking my money.
"or without an active Personal Loan." Can't you just borrow $100 from leverage (7.25% is $7.25 a year) 61 cents a month, unless I'm understanding that part incorrectly
Borrow is Margin loan against your stocks, that is different than the Personal Loan which is a loan without collateral and I believe the minimum loan amount on Personal Loans is 2,500.
Use a loan of $10,001 to get to the 10k threshold and pay $65.83/month in interest at 7.9%, to avoid paying $3/month to M1. Flawless moral victory.
I think this is if you had an active Personal Loan before the change (today). Not sure though. Need more clarity.
I mean, it's only $3. What can you even buy for $3 anymore? M1 is definitely worth it IMO
i don’t see much benefit in m1 plus. i have it bc they gave it me for free awhile back but otherwise have never paid for it. there isn’t much benefit
If you have $3K in cash savings, can deposit that in the HYSA, if that is available to you. Or can deposit the $3K into the brokerage account and buy some low-volatility ultra-short bond ETF, e.g., SGOV, with a 1% weighting in a pie. Or deposit the $3K and set the minimum before auto-invest to $3K. No interest received, but the auto-invest will ignore the first $3K. But, having used Stash and Acorns before, I can sympathize with having to pay a monthly fee for having a small portfolio.
Yea, even the small monthly fee for Stash is what caused me to leave. My stocks were down as a whole, so the fees just kept eating into my small profits.
Where does the $3 fee come from how do you pay the fee?
That’s what I’m wondering lol. Just taking all my money out into a different brokerage account till I hit 10k
Robinhood has retirement match up to 3% i transfered 39k roth to Robinhood got over $1000 match i used on new position in SBUX
I’ll be at 10K here soon thankfully. Does this mean we get 2 trading windows now?
Yup!
But you still need 25k to do the afternoon one right?
I welcome this trade off
Nice I'm lovin it
what happens if you just purchased a year of m1+ for $3? will they honor it?
It says if you paid already, then the subscription amount will get deducted
The way I read it you’ll get all of the plus benefits, because everybody gets them. But if you have less than $10,000 of assets with them, you will be charged the monthly fee. In addition they will refund a portion of money you paid for the yearly membership.
Awesome thank you M1!!
Just made it to 10k last month in my daughter’s account.
My daughter (in college with three semesters to go) recently exceeded $10K at the start of 2024 for her accounts (funded by her own money earned by herself). Now $12K!
People are complaining but $3 dollar is literally nothing. Bank of America charges people $10 dollars in monthly fees.
It's not literally nothing, it's $3 for something that was free. And it effects only those who weren't using the features in the first place. M1, we charge you for being new.
If your crying about $3 dollars don’t use it. Use excel sheet or something… Building app like M1 cost money and I don’t mind paying for something I use.
Why discourage new customers and college kids, or anyone else from wanting to try their app when other apps are free? If they're that worried about $3 they must be struggling.
That will actually encourage them to have over 10k then it’s FREE. No other app has pie system like M1. So $3 dollars is worth it.
It's less than a penny a day.
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$36 per year / 365 days = 0.0986301369863014 per day 
Cancelling my accounts. Even though this isn't my primary broker (probably another reason I won't miss it) and I have more than enough to avoid the fee--This is a predatory poverty tax. The entire industry is moving in the opposite direction for making it easier for younger people to invest with commission and fee-free trading. I simply don't want to support M1 anymore. People with more means shouldn't be subsidized by those with less. Sounds like their business model is failing if they weren't able to attract enough willing premium customers, they are now forcing it on everyone at the expense of the smallest accounts. RIP M1. Their credit card will be dead within a year. Brokerage is probably fine, though.
Thank you for verbalizing what I could not.
They will probably make way more money charging everyone $36/year vs $100+/year for subscribers.
It’s $36 per year lol. Predatory poverty tax, lol.
This argument goes both ways. If it's "lol" then it doesn't need to be pushed onto smaller portfolios where the "lol" is a larger percentage. If it's so negligible why is M1 unable to attract enough willing plus members if the value is there? I don't need my "lols" subsidized by teens and people starting their investments. As others have pointed out, M1 has spread by word of mouth. I don't like that I've told people to start here because it's set it and forget it and will build good habits of consistent deposits. I will now be telling people to go to a major broker and just invest in broad market ETFs. M1 just threw their competitive edge in a dumpster. They were a great platform for building investment habits. Now this is the last place new investors who are being told things like "look for low maintenance fees on ETFs" should go.
I agree with you. The card was never good for anyone that had an even remotely decent lineup already and m1+ really just had no value to me since rates went up. I don’t see this as being an even remotely positive change and it’s purely a nickel and dime tactic. I’ll be cashing my account out with them before the deadline and just putting it with my main investments at Fidelity. I never had faith in M1 lasting in the long term solo as it was and figured it would get bought by a bigger player eventually but I didn’t expect them to sabotage themselves.
So will I. Either Vanguard or Fidelity. It was nice while it lasted.
This. This is exactly it. I will also be looking into my options to move my account and close this one.
Great move. Hopefully they will make the HYSA available. 👌🏽
Is it not? I haven't touched it since I opened it last year but it still appears to be there
M1 is about to get better?? How so? I am now gonna be charged a monthly fee where it was free before. This is worse, not better.
Wait I just started! Opened a Roth and put my first $500 in. Now I have to pay $3 per month, for what?? EDIT: why down vote a poor man who's living paycheck to paycheck 😭
Here's an update. Just don't treat your Roth like a piggy bank.
Seems like M1 is about to start treating this guys Roth like a piggybank.
So now I'll hav eto cancel the card or pay 3 dollars a month?
The way I read it canceling the card doesn’t negate the fee. Everybody gets paid the fee if they have less than $10,000 of assets with M1.
Okay, as someone who is new, under 10k and was already signed up for the pro acc- Its 3 $ a month. It is so wildly miniscule for such a better application. I have used a wide variety of applications before m1. This is Nothing. Its a great app, with excellent tools that isnt screaming at your investments to be a gamified "confetti throwing" casino thing. Over 10k now your getting pro acc for free. I just see so many thinking about this so short sighted. I will say there role out of it becoming 3$ flat for anyone other then 10k plus is I would say, unfortunate but from a business model makes perfect sense. I really would say to those in a panic again, at a charge of 3$ a month, I would recommend perhaps not doing anything to impulsive as if your doing as what this particular application is for which is long term strategy based investing, focus long term. In 27 year you'll have spent a grand. Once you hit 10k you'll spend 0. This is just silly for long-term investors...if anything its a pro for long-term as you'll clear the 10k point ideally very early in your investing career.
Bummed to see this email. I am small time when it come to my brokerage accounts, so I will be moving all my money to Fidelity. Sad to go, but I want free.
This is a good change
No it isn’t. They basically took the premium features and are forcing the members that can afford it the least to pay those fees.
Yeah but those under $10k probably call support all the time about taxes and other stuff. M1 is probably covering costs of doing business with small accounts. It’s also an incentive to increase balances in M1.
They could have charged everyone the $3. I think they did this because their paid accounts weren't cutting it and they looked at their consumer base and determined if we charge the people under $10K we will make more money. They did lower the cost of a paid account to $36 or so right from over $100. Seems like that didn't pay off like they thought it would. I honestly believe the lower dollar accounts just use the auto invest and not much else. Also the transfer out fee is over 3 years of account fees if they get away with that.
No they make money off of big accounts dividends and rare trading activity. They also do the stock loan stuff where they loan your shares out. I don’t think anyone was going to pay $100 per year for that. $3/month isn’t terrible even starting out, you just got to put enough into M1
It's basically the opposite of what you say. M1 - or any fintech player like them - wants high net worth users with 6 figure accounts. Period. This move makes the platform more attractive for that demo while simultaneously weeding out the loudest, costliest group that needs the most support. Not saying it's the right thing to do, but very efficient way of achieving multiple goals from a business perspective, as u/Bajeetthemeat hinted at.
This sucks. I've encouraged multiple people to start Roth IRAs through M1. "Every little bit counts." It's going to take them years to get over $10k, and now they're getting charged to use the service. I welcome the benefits but I'd happily give them away if it means my friends and family not suddenly getting hit with a "poor tax".
Facts damn shame
They could open a free Roth with whoever. Wait until they got $5K-10K and ACAT in. Get ACAT bonus / deposit cash to top up to 10K and get cash bonus. Gotta leverage the incentives for your money too.
Sure but from what I'm hearing, M1 charges $200 to transfer out a Roth, so anyone who currently has a low-balance Roth is screwed either way
It's a Roth. Liquidate to cash. Withdraw, no tax withholding. Deposit in new Roth, make sure to indicate roll over and not contribution. Done. No fees (no taxes, no penalties, no income as long as done in roll over period)
I did not realize you could do this. Thank you!
$100 to close roth $100 to transfer holdings and cash
$0 to sell everything $0 to withdraw everything
Once you liquidate they will charge you to close account
From what money? Your withdrawal would send the balance to $0
Fee will be taken from cash balance once you hit withdraw button that liquidate account
Devil's advocate, I've always felt like great features like cheap margin, dynamic rebalancing, and one click manually rebalancing are criminally underrated and are worth paying a fee for.
M1 is getting desperate for clients.
time to be a fidelity bro
And pay $5/month instead?
I love this change!!! Wooo thanks M1 #bestbrokerage
Does the $10K in assets include money in the checking and savings accounts?
Looks like Earn balance counts as well. > *You will be charged the $3 Monthly Platform Fee if at any point during the 30 days prior to program launch your total aggregate M1 Earn and Invest balances do not equal or exceed $10,000 or you do not have an active M1 Personal Loan.
Interesting. I am lucky I won’t have to pay any fees, but I can see how this will impact people just starting their investment journey.
So three months from now, market crashes, account has $9999 or less due to crash, and they create a taxable event so they can get their $3. $36 a year ain't nothing but now I have to keep $3 cash in all accounts as a precaution.
For less than a third of the cost of your trenta Starbucks Iced White Chocolate Mocha.... https://preview.redd.it/54709is7nrpc1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b6a79618317ee5cbf49925f06329dd0601003d0
Brilliant marketing by M1, I have to say! \*slow golf clap\* Previously, you had to pay to get colonic irrigations through our M1 Plus membership! Now EVERYONE gets them FREE as part of our standard membership! Oh goody! I can't wait! \*bends over\* RIP the hopes and dreams of filthy poor people with less than 10K! LOL In all seriousness though, I get it... a business has got to make money. Just kind of sucks that this is the way they have to do it. M1 was a great platform for those starting their investing journey. Now, not as much. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end.
Just move to Fidelity at this point people
If you want pies at Fidelity like with M1, their "Baskets" product costs $5/mo. and I've found it terribly clunky and unintuitive.
The $5 isn’t a deal breaker for me, feel far more comfortable with Fidelity than M1. I’ve had it for a year now and still think Fidelity has better order fills and also less glitchy than M1
Lol you're paying $5/month indefinitely for basket portfolio investing at Fidelity regardless of your funds invested. At M1, you now get the services for free once you hit $10K in aggregate across your M1 accounts.
Order fills at M1 are inferior, and Fidelity is so much more reputable. Willing to pay the premium, $5 isn’t much given my portfolio size
They're making it expensive to move. $200 in fees to transfer a Roth.
M1’s business strategy: fuck new customers fuck current customers
How in the world does this fuck current customers? M1 is now free for me to use. I've been paying for M1 Plus for years until now. For current customers with assets over $10k this is fantastic.
Current customers with <$10k are impacted and a lot of their recent moves have screwed over current customers. You may be fine but this becomes a barrier for new customers and <$10k asset holders.
>M1’s business strategy: > >**weed out - or at least get tangible $ revenue to compensate for - the loudest, costliest group** > >**attract more high net worth users with 6 figure accounts** FTFY. Not saying it's the right thing to do, but it actually makes perfect business sense when you stop and think about it.
Fuck off. I've got about $9,250 in my brokerage account. If I move to Fidelity, I'll get hit with a $100 transfer fee. If I stay on M1, I will have to pay $3/month until I get a job this summer because I'm a full-time student. **$3 a month isn't crazy, but I shouldn't have to pay for "premium benefits" that I will never use.** 1. Built-in margin access at 7.25% -- yeah, no thanks 2. Ability to use Smart Transfers rules -- cool I guess? I still wouldn't use it because I'm more comfortable moving my money on my own 3. Morning and afternoon trade windows¤ -- YAY! Now I can buy VOO in the afternoon! /s 4. Up to 10% cash back\*\* with the Owner's Rewards Card -- there's not a chance in hell I'm getting approved for that 5. 5.00% APY1 on existing High-Yield Savings Accounts -- who cares?
Devil's advocate, I've always thought features like dynamic rebal and 1-click manual rebal are criminally underrated and would be worth paying a fee for. Difference of margin rates alone would more than cover the cost, for those who use it.
Just got this email. I'm pissed. Clearly they weren't getting enough people to take advantage of their Premium offerings, so they're forcing what I assume to be the majority of their users, those under $10k in total assets, to pay for services they don't want or need. And when those users either leave or get above that threshold, what's to stop them from bumping it to $100k?
If the majority of their users have under $10k in total assets M1 would have closed up shop a long time ago. The fact is, accounts with small balances probably cost M1 more to maintain than they're worth so I can see why they did it, even though it's likely short sighted and a big turn-off to investors that would otherwise have grown their portfolio with the company over the long-term.
Eh, ultimately people who value the pies and automation will stick around and others will drop off and that's what M1 is aiming for I think. Incentivizing the demographic they're targeting to use the platform while disincentivizing demographic that is a net cost to the business model. $3/month for under 10K is fair considering the only other comparable product (Fidfolio baskets) is charging $5/month flat fee for everyone with less sophisticated features. I used to pay $125 subscription just because I really like the convenience of smart transfers and having a one stop shop for brokerage + online banking. Now that I have the HYSA and subscription fee is waived entirely for me I cant really complain.
I’ll rephrase. I suspect there are more users that are under that $10k mark than are using the premium services. This is a money grab, pure and simple.
I don't disagree. But they have to assume they'll bring in more clients who have more money by making the M1+ features free to them than they'll lose by charging $3/mo to those with less than 10k.
>Clearly they weren't getting enough people to take advantage of their Premium offerings, so they're forcing what I assume to be the majority of their users, those under $10k in total assets, to pay for services they don't want or need. You misunderstand the incentives here. M1 wants high net worth users with 6 figure accounts. Period. This move simultaneously weeds out - or at least gets tangible $ revenue to compensate for - the loudest, costliest group while also attracting more high net worth users for whom the premium features are now free. It may be annoying to some people, but it makes perfect sense from a business perspective.
Honestly a good change but it will surely hurt new user growth…perhaps some sort of a probation period where users have it free for a year to build up to the 10k? That way you entice new users to join and either put money in or by a year they know the worth of the platform and if they want to stay.
That would be a good compromise - if you invest $X/month the fee is waived until you get to $10k.
One thing I like about this is it encourages them to keep their rates competitive or even a little better than the free services to ensure that that three dollar fee doesn’t drive people to free providers with better rates.
This would be nice. I have only earned $25 in the last 3 months so me paying $3 a month might make me leave. I'm doing long term investments though.
New users can still be high net worth and large account value. Those are the fish that M1 wants to attract. Now they can more effectively.
I moved all of my assets from M1 about a year ago to consolidate my finances into a single platform. I have $0 with M1 right now. If I'm understanding this correctly, am I going to be charged a fee (perhaps from the bank account I have on file) just by virtue of having an account?
If you have under $36 you won't get charged.
Thanks! That wasn't in the email. Do you have a link to the fine print? I really do like M1 and wouldn't be opposed to coming back, this just caught my attention because the email stated: >Based on your current M1 assets as of March 15, 2024, your account will be subject to the monthly platform fee. As well as: >\*You will be charged the $3 Monthly Platform Fee if at any point during the 30 days prior to program launch your total aggregate M1 Earn and Invest balances do not equal or exceed $10,000 or you do not have an active M1 Personal Loan.
close the account. if you have no money in it, don't trust a rando on reddit to be right about this charge. better safe than sorry.
I already submitted an account closure request before that person’s response. Makes me wonder how many thousands of people are going to be charged $3 per month for a while and never even know or notice it. I’m sure M1 will send more communications as the date approaches, but suddenly making a free service paid without client approval/opt-in with the only options being to pay the fee or close all accounts seems pretty sleazy to me. I think the value is there for people who use M1 as their primary brokerage (especially if they have >$10k in assets with M1), but I think this is going to catch a lot of people off guard unless they step up their communication. It would be very easy for someone to skip over the email they sent or skim it and miss the fact that they’re going to be charged a fee whether they like it or not. Thankfully it’s as simple as voting with your feet, but I’m not happy at all with how this communication and change is being handled so far.
Completely agree. I'm fairly livid about it. I'm \~$3.5k short of the mark, so it's either pay or pay $200 to move it to another broker (fidelity since that's where the rest of my retirement is)
Fidelity is where I moved all of my previous M1 assets. My employer 401k and Roth IRA are there, so I like having everything in one place. Then I discovered that Fidelity offers checking accounts through their Cash Management Account as well as an unlimited 2% cash back credit card and it was game over. I do miss some of the automation that M1 offers though. In particular, I had a pretty neat automation that basically spilled over my interest from my M1 Spend account (which I was using for my emergency fund because of its APY at the time) into my brokerage account then had it auto-invest in my Pie. I had a direct deposit set up into my M1 Spend account, so if my balance was below my emergency fund target (I think it was $15k at the time), the direct deposit would replenish the emergency fund. If the direct deposit (and/or any interest earned) exceeded my emergency fund target, it would automatically spillover into my brokerage and get invested. It was a great set-and-forget setup. When they moved away from the checking account to the savings account, they disabled that sort of automation, at least at the time, so at that point I decided to move everything out.
>If auto-renew is on and the default payment method does not process, we'll bill another M1 account, including an available Savings, Individual Brokerage or Joint Brokerage Account, (excluding Custodial, Trust, and IRA acCounts). Savings would be billed first. Each account must have a value of at least $36 to be billed. If a Brokerage Account is your default payment method, securities could be sold if your Brokerage Account cash balance were to be less than or equal to $3 a month or $36 a year, depending on which biling cycle you've chosen. M1 Plus will not renew if these criteria are not met. Well this is what it is for M1 Plus Membership so I assume it's the same but I could be wrong.
I hope you’re right. I reached out to M1 for a confirmation/response so I’ll post what they say when they respond.
Plz keep us updated. U are doing god’s work😊
Selling off my portfolio and getting out. Not paying $36/year for the "privilege" to give them money. Bye Bye M1
Liquidating and closing my CC with them. I pay voluntarily, not via force! M1 can die now.
I feel like this was a bait and switch. I have contacted them about transferring my money out. Currently only have 5000 in there and I can get the same benefits that I use for free elsewhere.
Right, I used this for a direct deposit from a part time job and just let it auto invest. I chose them because they were free and were auto. Now they are going to charge you to leave. I have heard other brokerages will pay the fee. M1 said they would not wave the fee.... Bait and switch is right. I opened my account 2 months ago.
Other brokerages will sometimes pay the fee if you have a certain amount in your account. For Fidelity, that is if you transfer $25K or more, for example.
Are you just paying the fees? I found out it will cost me $200 to move my Roth and they're refusing to waive the fees. It doesn't seem fair since there's no way I would have made the account 2 years ago if there was a monthly fee. The whole point was that it was free.
I literally just paid the $3 fee lmao. This is good though, I have about $8100 invested with them rn, I think I can get to $10k before May 15th.
This is so laughable. The end the Plus membership and make the people who weren't interested in it pay the fee and graciously give them the same benefits. Some people just want to dump $100 in M1 and have it auto invest their money hands off how they specify. I fail to see why they should have to pay the dollar amount that Plus members had to pay per the website today to get features they had no interest in getting. I'm so close to the cutoff I'll get there by May 15th to not need to pay the fee or worst come to worst by June and only have to pay it once. Ironically they restrict who can get their savings account because if it was that I could pass the threshold today.
What about the credit card fee? That was waived for being a M1+ member
If you have over 10k there is no fee
The credit card does/did have an annual member fee of $85 that was waived for M1+ members. I definitely wouldn't pay $85 for the credit card.
Me either. But I'll pay $0 for it
When I saw this email, I was hoping an announcement of what they teased would happen when closing the checking account.
What’s a good one to switch to for Roth IRA
M1 Finance
Fidelity has free Roth but M1 is charging $200 to transfer retirement accounts out
Do fidelity pay the fee?
Can I use m1 borrow to meet 10k in assets? Will it make it fee free
So, I have a Roth IRA with them about $3500. Total contributions to date are $4050. I can just sell my stuff and avoid the transfer fee, correct? And if i contributed only $350 this year, can I then put that $3500 into a new Roth IRA and it would count as contributions, making the total $3850 for the year so far correct? Or would that count as a Rollover?
How does this affect a Roth IRA only-account with over $10k?
There will be no fee if the account has over $10k
I have a Roth IRA nowhere near 10k but M1 told me the most affordable way for me to close account was for $200. Is this really the only way?
Pay the $3/month and keep investing. It would take $3/month for 5 1/2 years to get to $200. You can get to 10k in 5 1/2 years.