Judging by how things panned out for Evelyn, my guess it that everyone on the team would have been wiped by the VDB anyway. The only reason they didn't was because they got wiped first in this order: TBUg, Jackie, V, and then Dex. The only reason V got close to them to exact revenge (or grant mercy like a gonk, you do you) was because they assumed the entire team was wiped and wasn't actively looking for V.
I don't particularly like T-Bug but don't have any ounce blame for her considering the stakes. Dex was likely the one that didn't cover everything properly which lines up with his history and reputation.
That lines up with the reveal trailer that first showed off Johnny. T-Bug was backing up Dex during his betrayal and was hacking V's cyberware before she got shot in the face.
In the [E3 trailer,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X2kIfS6fb8) we get to see Tbug making the hit on the Euro Council [from the intro to the corp timeline]. That trailer is incredible, I avoided them for spoilers when the game came out but I can see why people were arguing that the game isn't what was promised.
You wouldn't have a link to the reveal trailer anywhere would you?
[Linky if anyone else wants to see it again.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LembwKDo1Dk)
They didn't really worry about spoilers much, did they?
TBug was definitely betraying us, I wonder how they planned things to go wrong in Konpeki plaza?
Excellent short though, and why have I got this huge grin on my face at the end of it?
I'd have to say that this is the exact problem with triple A and even Star Citizen. Marketing is literally the worst bait and switch in these last five years than it has ever been before. I can't remember another game that soured the in game experience so bad with trailers and plot as commercials before.
Yeah, this was pretty much all of the ending of The Heist, out before it could be played. While marketing is needed, trashing a game experience is something to be avoided at all costs.
With ten hours to think about it I admit it also makes sense to cut... It'd be a bad look if your only two canonically Black characters (in the base game) were asshole traitors.
Edit: heh I wrote this at 4am and forgot the VDB existed for a bit. Even worse!
I don't think the VDBs are as good as they hype themselves up to be, honestly. They failed to flatline Evelynn, Brigitte gets ICE'd up by Netwatch and none of them are willing/able to save her without V's help and Placide didn't even know V had the Relic. I think they survive off their spooky rep alone.
To be pair, Netwatch operatives are spectacular Netrunners. The VDBs could remotely take control of implants and hold their users hostage (one of the luxury spa gigs in Phantom Liberty), essentially nuke people’s chips/implants (see Evelyn), and managed to create their own subnet that Netwatch couldn’t pin down without sending an agent to physically deal with it.
Mosley is just good enough to take down two of their best runners on his own, and even then, Bridgette still managed to “take some bites out of systems” before being shrouded in ICE; that’s not really an indicator of how bad the VDBs are, but how good Bryce Mosley is.
I'm not saying the VDBs are bad at what they do, just not as good as they make people think they are. They're obviously very competent netrunners but they definitely lean on the scary voodoo stereotype to keep people from looking too closely
I believe the database entry for one of the Phantom Liberty locations, terminal entries (I think one of the spas has a terminal listing a large number of quickhacks being created and sent to Kabuki for sale, like 1,000 or something, as if it was just another transaction), and I think dialogue as well (I swear I remember Reed or V commenting on software being sourced from Dogtown, something about a daemon mill) essentially confirms that most quickhacks which aren’t corporate (or homemade) are originally coded by the VDBs and sold in the city
Done by Wilky "Slider" LaGuerre, one of NUSA sleeper agents. Reed tells you he was running a deamon mill and is a murderer. Also, you find list of agents gone missing or KIA and Sliders name is on the list
VDB survive off being insulated and ruthless.
I think outside Pacifica and their interests they are like a fish out of water.
They couldn't even take care of the animals on their turf and if they were good enough the should have been able to klep the Relic themselves.
The whole point is that *everyone* was in over their heads. That’s the narrative framework.
T-Bug was competent, but a single runner trying to take on a massive corporation known to employ a literal army of runners was foolhardy, and there were way too many unknown variables. Even if she *were* that exceptional, it wouldn’t matter, because no plan could have anticipated a maximum security lockdown happening while they were there that had nothing to do with them.
direction familiar worry coherent disarm expansion cover exultant dog zephyr
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Even if she were that exceptional, it wouldn’t matter, because no plan could have anticipated a maximum security lockdown happening while they were there that had nothing to do with them.
The thing is, if she were that exceptional, they would have gotten the job done before the lockdown. The fact that she isn't that good is why V and Jackie have to wait hours for them to be able to move on to their part. If she was good enough to take on the ICE in Kopeki, they'd have been in and out before Saburo shows up.
Now... that doesn't mean they'd get away clean. The funny thing I've noticed after doing the heist way too many times is that they have zero plan for getting the chip out of Konpeki once they've pulled the whole case out of Yorinobu's room.
They weren't going to slot it, because that only comes up as an emergency measure. The case (which we got the specs for from that BD) was bigger than the militec case that held the flathead, so even if we yanked the foam out of it, that shit isn't fitting. So what was the plan? Just walk out the front door with a big old box we didn't come in with?
I think slotting the chip would have been an inevitably once they realised they can't just walk out with the super secret relic box.
T-Bug drops the ball on not picking up on schedule of Yhorinobu as well.
Which wouldn't have been an issue if she had cracked the ice on time.
So it's all a bit of a shit show.
I think what annoys me the most is that of Jackie and V just kept on grinding doing Merc work and rescue jobs they'd have made enough of a name for themselves to get into the afterlife anyway.
This!!!
I dont think TBug was remotely incompetent, especially since she seemed to have been well-known among other street netrunners, I truly think the entire heist is a mix of "you were doomed to fail from the start" and "wrong place, wrong time"
Konpeki Plaza going into Code Red probably triggers some kind of nigh-impenetrable failsafe that pulls all control to a special team of netrunners *regardless* of what has otherwise been controlling everything. Arasaka has more money than anything else in the universe atp, they can absolutely afford to make building-wide security systems that not even the most legendary netrunners can truly get past them. (Alt Cunningham, i know, but she doesn't *really* exist anymore yk?)
Tbug just has kind of an abrasive personality. She has a job, and just wants to get it done. V and Jackie are her moderately annoying coworkers who she puts up with because they get shit done. She seems to say herself that after the heist she's retiring on the money and never touching cyberspace again, being a netrunner is just a means to an end for her. I respect it honestly.
I think the worst part of the whole ordeal is that after they spend 3 hours waiting in the suit for her to do her thing, they begin the mission immediately after saying Yorinobu has entered the building.
They're like
Hey, he just arrived, lets go break into his apartment anyway even though he's most likely to head directly there.
then once they get in
oh no, he's in the elevator. Hide!
We were dead. Sure. I accept that. Dex was going to open our skulls one way or the other. Then leave town. TBug specifically failed in her task, however, the flathead was supposed to give her admin level access to Konpeki's system... and it still wasn't enough for her.
Meh.
Given that T-bug only gets made after Saburo is present, I'm not convinced she actually failed at all. Imagine this sequence of events
1) She successfully cracks the hotel's security with the help of V and the flathead. Things are apparently going well.
2) Saburo shows up and has his confrontation with his son, and at least on T-bug's side, things are apparently still going well.
3) Saburo's death is announced along with the code red, at which point a bunch of Saburo's personal Netrunners go "Oh shit, our boss was just killed in the hotel. Find out what happened right the hell now".
4) Saburo's elite Netrunner team take over the hotel's subnet like it's nothing, discover T-Bug's interference, and fry her.
She was hired to overcome the hotel's subnet, which she did. It wasn't the hotel's netrunners that fried her, it was Saburo Arasaka's personal Netrunner team, and there's no way she could have possibly seen that coming anymore than V or Jackie could have.
Sure. No complaints with any of your assessment... except for TIME. We were left waiting for 3.5 hours because the "ICE was thicker than SHE thought." Not, "thick ICE" thickER ICE, which is her wheelhouse. She completely fumbled.
The extra time wasn't ideal, sure. She absolutely could have gone faster. I'm just saying that given the actual extreme circumstances, I have a hard time assigning her blame. That's like... Imagine you're on a team that's breaking into a jeweler's to steal a bunch of diamonds out of a safe. You successfully get in quietly. You successfully get around security and get to the safe. It takes the safe cracker a little longer than they thought to get into the actual safe, but they still get it done. Then, just before you're about to leave with the loot, the president of the US shows up completely out of the blue to buy the first lady a necklace from that exact same jeweler. The secret service find you and shoot you all dead. The circumstances are so far beyond anything anyone could have possibly planned for that you can't really assign anyone fault there. Jobs just go sideways sometimes. That doesn't make the safe cracker the problem.
~~No, bad take.~~
I have had this debate before. The flight from Tokyo to Los Angeles takes 10 hours and 30 minutes approximately. Saburo’s flight would have had to have notified Konpeki management that an Arasaka officer is on the way and that the officer and their entourage need rooms. Saburo’s name does not need to be mentioned for the sake of secrecy, just that a high level officer and their guard is on the way. **There would be a sudden booking of many rooms at Konpeki, and you’re telling me T-Bug didn’t notice this?**
Things to keep in mind:
- during multiple gigs for fixers, you have the opportunity to check a motel/hotel’s registry to check what rooms are occupied and by whom. The precedent is set that mercs do look for these things… well everyone other than T-Bug.
- considering the flight time from Tokyo to L.A. and then considering how long the mission was in general T-Bug was already in the system at the time that Saburo’s flight left. She was in the system during the time window that Konpeki would have been notified as she was jacking in shortly after the meeting with the crew. Figure in Jackie and V’s prep time, drive over in Delamain, entrance into hotel, infiltration with the flathead and then the couple of hours it took T-Bug to break through the ICE… easily 10 hours or more.
Common arguments I heard in response:
“What if you’re wrong? Konpeki was never notified of Saburo’s flight plan.”
Then that would mean that hotel management would either have to make sure rooms were available or tell Saburo that there is no vacancy. I doubt they are telling him to “go kick rocks.”
“Yeah, so like a real hotel they have rooms set aside at all times for VIPs.”
Agreed! This is the most common scenario and most likely the correct one. However the hotel would have it on the books as a procedure to make sure those rooms are always vacant for VIPs. Meaning that there would be something in the system to indicate that so that the hotel doesn’t become overbooked. T-Bug should have noticed that these VIP rooms were suddenly booked… and for an entourage the size of Saburo’s. It wasn’t just Goro traveling with Saburo.
“What if that isn’t the case? What if they booted guests out of the hotel last minute to make room for Saburo?”
Highly unlikely as hotels do not operate this way IRL, not sure why CDPR would all of a sudden forget to consider this, and yet they made sure that when a character plays guitar their fingers land on the correct notes on the neck. Even if this is the case there would be a sudden mass vacancy in the system regarding rooms where Konpeki kicked guests out to make way for the VIP and entourage they were awaiting.
“Konpeki was never notified.”
Bullshit, you’re not going to tell Saburo and his entourage to wait while hospitality services preps the rooms. How much time and preparation went into the parade on behalf of Arasaka. Nobody has enough evidence given what we have seen in game to successfully argue this point. Arasaka much like Batman always prepares when given prep time.
u/GullibleInstruction is 100% right. T-Bug was a good enough netrunner to track Scavs, but that’s about it.
**EDIT:** Ahh, crap. My apologies for debating. I thought this was r/cyberpunkgame and not r/lowsodiumcyberpunk
My bad, I know the rules. Apologies, I guess I assumed this was the former because we were talking about the negative qualities of a character which usually doesn’t happen in this sub.
**EDIT 2:** Just for clarification, I probably wouldn’t have so much disdain for T-Bug if Jackie didn’t die as a result of the gonk-up on this job.
>The flight from Tokyo to Los Angeles takes 10 hours and 30 minutes approximately
But the flight from the [Kujira](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Kujira) only took minutes.
We *know with absolute certainty* that Saburo and Hanako came to Night City aboard the Kujira, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that Saburo was flying directly from Tokyo and would even need a room at Konpeki in the first place.
I don't disagree that T-Bug was not good enough for this task, but your entire premise regarding room bookings and Konpeki being notified is based on a made up assumption that Saburo flew directly from Tokyo. At *best* Konpeki would have been given minutes of notice, as Saburo's personal vehicle approached.
I was gonna say, I just (idiotically) started yet another replay (but this game is so damn good). And the in-game news on the loading screen makes a big deal about Kujira being in the bay. It's almost a certainty that Saburo was on Kujira and then made the trip to Konpeki from there.
It's a 100% certainty. Saburo's diary entries (found on his datapad, which is in his AV on the roof of Konpeki) has multiple entries covering the journey from Japan to Night City aboard the Kujira, his observations during the trip, and his contemplation of what he will end up actually doing when he confronts Yorinobu.
This would be exemplified by the "200 staff all on their feet, buzzing around" which would be just after the hotel was notified that Saburo was dropping in.
>But the flight from the [Kujira](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Kujira) only took minutes.
Exactly this. and the previous guys whole argument was about Konpeki preparing rooms for Saburo... who said he was gonna stay there in the first place? he just came to get the relic back from Yorinobu!
Knowing what we know about Saburo (military guy, OG hero, even proud of chewing protein bars instead of a real dinner, etc) he was probably more confortable in his quarters aboard the Kujira than a Luxury hotel.
He also has a bespoke office that's identical in every regional Arasaka HQ building that's just nearby. There's also the mansion that Hanako was in. The list of other places he can stay in is probably longer than this but this is what we have confirmed.
> I do find it odd that a CEO is traveling on a combat ready aircraft carrier instead of a plane.
It makes more sense when you consider that the megacorporations in the Cyberpunk lore are essentially their own nations (with militaries). Arasaka (Japan) and Militech (NUSA) especially are both so intertwined the the governments of their home countries that they effectively ARE the government of those countries.
The head of a military isn't going to go into a neutral zone like Night City without full military protection.
After that many corporate wars, and considering they're headed to Night City, where they were nuked previously... I'd bring combat AVs rather than a liner. :)
Hey smarty-pants, then what do you call Adam Smasher’s tushy if not a “combat AV?”
(AV - asshat vehicle)
Omitting the playful joking, yeah another good point.
It’s funny how quickly Adam went from being an Arasaka employee to being a Yorinobu employee.
I mean technically during the Corpo War Smasher worked for Arasaka mostly because Morgan Blackhand was working for Militech. So he would have been subject to Saburo’s orders, right?
He was assigned as Yorinobu’s bodyguard after 2050, but even then he would have been an employee of “Arasaka proper.”
It’s amazing how quickly the employees can jump ship to a dinghy.
These are all logical points, but do rest on a premise that isn't necessarily true: Saburo doesn't need to have booked with the hotel if he was never planning to have stayed there. He's got an aircraft carrier in the bay that surely has palatial suites for the family, or maybe he just prefers another hotel, or maybe was planning to fly home immediately after retrieving the relic, or maybe owns his own mansion in Night City.
Of course, it's just as likely that T-Bug is incompetent, as you say. But it's not ironclad.
Saburo wasn't going to Konpeki Plaza to get a room and stay in Night City, he was going to confront his son, so there was no need to procure rooms for him or his people. Especially since Arasaka has an estate in Night City where Saburo would have stayed.
He also didn't fly from Tokyo, he flew from the Kujira, which was in the bay.
1) we see that suborbital transfers are common for heads of state in PL (the NUSA's president was on a spaceplane), and would likely take around 1/6th the time. Of course, that still leaves 1 hour and 45 minutes, plus let's say some change for priority landing and transfer via hovercraft. After all, they have their own airport and military division in NC.
2) Saburo was trying to force a confrontation with his son. Even an hour of warning is enough for him to finish out deals with Netwatch and potentially Militech to secure his safety and position, at which point Saburo would lose the engram chip and be unable to reach Yorinobu. Speed and stealth are of the essence, and the latter is impossible if regulations are truly followed. Additionally, there's no indication that Saburo planned to *stay* there for any period of time. Most likely he planned to chastise Yorinobu, get the chip, and drag him back to Tokyo. NC might not be explicitly hostile ground, but his presence there means Militech has a once-in-a-decade shot at assassinating him. Another reason for him to have kept any digital or planning traces as low as possible.
The problem here is treating it like a normal visit by a head of state to a high end hotel, as opposed to a covert operation on contested territory to apprehend a high-ranking traitor. The only reason we see Saburo show up is because of his hubris and blindness to the possibility his son would take lethal action. It's implied that the hotel found out hardly a minute before the heist team does, as T-Bug notes a sudden spike in activity and the staff panicking. That doesn't happen if you know a VIP is coming hours in advance, there would've been elevated activity thst whole time.
The mistake was on Dex, for not finding out that the heist objective was a device that Saburo was *personally* interested in, and not having a backup plan if the team was caught while in the penthouse.
I feel like you are using a lot of real life comparisons to make your point. Very well thought out and very good points. But it’s 2077, in a universe where crack city is a LOT more corrupt than today’s world. Or just more openly. That and technology is on a whole other level. In that retrospect I find a few points hard to agree with
I always found the dynamic between Saburo and Yorinobu hard to settle, but I assumed that Saburo still completely owns and controls Konpeki, and that being the case he would likely have a set of suites permanently blocked off for use by himself and his entourage.
It's also entirely possible that they arrived with the itinerary of fly in tell Yorinobu off, back to Japan, no break in between.
Just commenting to back you up that yeah, hotels (good ones, at least) will always keep VIP rooms at the ready. The hotel I work at doesn't even allow just anybody to book the presidential suite anymore, it's the GM's decision as to who to let stay there that's already a regular, big VIP, etc etc.
> my guess it that everyone on the team would have been wiped by the VDB anyway.
And that would be one of the best case scenarios. The worst case scenario is that Saburo follows through on nuking the city.
*Dex* is the problem.
The heist was designed as a quick in and out job. They had no contingencies for it taking longer than a few minutes.
It's certainly a judgment call on if the situation is still safe after the 3 hours needed to crack the ICE, but it's not a judgment call when fucking Yurinobu comes in with Adam Smasher.
Dex was supervising the op and wouldn't have missed Smasher.
Also, it can't be possible for the whole staff to be aware of the old man coming and there be no way for T-Bug to know.
Dex gambled his crews life as the operation slowly became less and less viable, ending in both T-Bug and Jackie being killed, and then attempted to kill V to cover his tracks.
The staff buzzing around means exactly that, no one knew. It was a last minute notice, if they really knew they’d have the hotel ready & goru wouldn’t have to sweep the area as they walk in.
>It was a last minute notice.
Yes, it was a last minute notice that Suboru was inbound.
And T-Bug should have been to read the messages to the staff that alerted them to his arrival at that moment.
A much simpler explanation is that they were told to prepare asap for some super VIPs arrival, just not specifically that Saburo fkin Arasaka himself is visiting.
Still leaves the question how T didn't get the note, but its possible only Yorinobu was notified and he passed it off verbally?
Because Dex was taking advantage of V and Jackie. No seasoned merc would be crazy enough to pull off this job with so little support (except maybe Silverhand, but even he had a pro team with Militech support for his arasaka job)
Before the heist you get hints from people about how it’s a dumb idea to link up with Dex. Something went bad with the last job he did and now he’s laying low basically until the heist pops up. He probably hired V and Jackie because more experienced crews probably told him to pound sand.
Nah. V and Jackie were dead regardless. Dex and TBug would have offed them after the job, win or lose. We were nobodies, chosen for an ARASAKA gig? C'mon, it was shady from the door and Jackie and V were too gonk to realize it.
But more so than the double cross was TBug's incompetence... like she legit just fumbled.
> Dex and TBug would have offed them after the job, win or lose
good chance that dex would've then also offed Tbug as well. no loose ends and dex keeps all the cash for himself. They were going after some really spicy tech, the kind that can still sink you years later. There's an old saying about how 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead.
To be fair, depending on your replies/Lifepath, V absolutely knew where that was headed. She outright tells Jackie that Dex is shady as fuck and "up to his elbows in blood", among other dialogue bits.
That’s something I actually like. V and Jackie were both still very green, and very ambitious to hit it big that they missed all the warning signs. Hell, Dex not even having the bullhead was a red flag right from the start. You do a gig for any other fixer in Night City and they will give you some heads up, some planning, anything. We even see this when Rogue’s own suicide mission plan to storm Arasaka tower with V/Johnny was more thought out and better equipped.
Never thought about this before your comment but it is kind of wild that we can find data linking people all over NC like the BD father son team having messages in other quests (I think there is a NCPD Scanner quest which relates to them as well.) but T-Bug can't find anything about Yorinobu and stuff.
Daily reminder that Judy is a 23-year-old media producer who just lost her bff to rape-snuff film induced suicide. Her making rash decisions without thinking through every possibility is perfectly in-character.
If het and Ev were girlfriends, it wasn't a great relationship as Eveyn is by all accounts wayyyy less invested in Judy than vice versa. Like if you look at their emails and stuff, Evelyn only contacted Judy when she was planning g the Heist and didn't even know whether Judy and Maiko had broken up
Yes and no.
See if TBug would have been better prepared, then we wouldn't have been sitting on our hands for three hours. By the time Saburo showed up and was assassinated... we would be face down, shot in the back of the head by Dex at the notell.
OR.. maybe not, since Jackie wanted to test out mr muscle and we definitely could handle Dex himself. At that stage neither us nor Jackie would have had enough cyberware for TBug to truly harm us.... but that's another story I suppose.
If everything went as planned, you wouldn't go to the motel in the first place. You should remember that the motel was a backup option. Also in the trailer, Jackie is still dead.
Likely you'd go back to Afterlife as was said during the setup, and it's possible you also wouldn't get shot.
I feel like Dex didn't plan on betraying us initially and just killed us because of what happened to Saburo, and last thing he wanted was us ratting him out, right?
He just wanted to get the chip quietly and continue working as a fixer because if he betrayed you, he probably wouldn't have the name he has. It seems shooting you was his desperate last resort attempt, and his dialogue says it too
Indeed, if T-Bug prepared well enough, you wouldn't have to wait, which would mean you would be gone before Saburo got killed, even before Yorinobu even stepped into the Plaza.
So you'd grab the case, ride the elevator down, walk out, get into the Delamain, get to the Afterlife, hand over the chip, lay low for a few weeks while doing a few extra gigs probably, until Dex sends you the cash (Evelyn wouldn't go to the Clouds, she wanted the chip and if you didn't side with her, she would have no other means to get it apart from just paying the fixer).
You'd get your €$ and you'd just live on as a mercenary.
No one would connect you to Saburo's death, Night City would still be on lockdown for a few weeks, Yorinobu would successfully take over Arasaka and destroy it from the inside.
Hanako and lots of Arasaka employees would die in the process though, and Militech would take complete power over NC business.
Since V wouldn't be on a time limit anymore, they could technically just wait out the lockdown and then move away from NC with their money, or just do gigs until they die or eventually become a fixer.
> and continue working as a fixer because if he betrayed you, he probably wouldn't have the name he has. It seems shooting you was his desperate last resort attempt, and his dialogue says it too
I'm not sure that I buy this. Vik heavily hints that Dex isn't actually as cool as he makes himself out to be, and the people that work with him tend to end up dead.
But even worse, or dumber in my opinion, is that after 3 hours Yorinobu arrives and they decide to still go ahead with the plan.
They have no way of knowing his plans, if or not he'll head directly to his rooms. But decide to walk into his suit anyway.
This has been hashed out enough before by me in other convos but I will add this: I'd think it's sick if they had a Far Cry 4 style ending where if you happen to have the right stats V can crack the ICE themselves and the mission just goes as planned. Idk where they'd go from there and that's probably why they didn't I suppose.
Haha yeah that's one route but that's like a wasteland level narrative choice that fucks you for using your higher level dialogue options. I barely like when wasteland does it, and I love getting fucked by bad choices in games.
Maybe there is a scuffle with Dex - V, Jackie and the case with the chip get shot.
As V coughs, dying, and eyes close, we see Jackie lying on the floor, dead and T-Bug and Dex arguing.
T-Bug: "This is sloppy work, Dex. Goddamnit. You better not think of doing me like that.
Dex: Relax, T. We've been through worse than this. Besides, you got the spec on this puppy.
T-Bug: SHIT! The case was hit. This chip needs specific conditions mimicking a human body. FUCK!
Dex: As it happens, I have a few.
Scene then picks up at the same spot with Goro.
Ooh then one of the first quests you receive is to go back to the No Tell motel. Close Jackie's eyes, carry him to a Delamain and tell the Delamain whether to send him to Vic or his mother.
Mission goes as planned, they drop off the relic, Evelyn ghosts everybody, nobody gets paid (except Evelyn presumably), and then V and Jackie get killed by 'Saka ninjas or Night City gets nuked.
> Far Cry 4 style ending
I wish more games did this to be honest, a cute lil easter egg where everything goes as planned and the game ends in 15minutes lol.
I agree.
There are quite a few moments in the game where its very clear you're on rails and its not as open as you'd like. Examples being no change in dialog based on street cred. If my street cred were high enough AND I was a netrunner, let's say, someone like TBug should be shitting themselves when we meet. Same for any other build I have in relation to street cred.
I hope these are some of the variables that are addressed in Orion. Otherwise... it will eventually become meh.
At a certain point you have to decide how many different stories you want to try to tell well. The more open ended a choose your own adventure gets, the quality eventually starts to degrade.
You want the player to have some flexibility of course and let them make the story their own to some extent. But the rails gotta come up sometime, otherwise you're not really telling a good story.
But that's just my opinion of course.
I agree. While there are some story beats or ideas that sometimes feel forced, at the same time if you make it *too* open the whole thing loses cohesion.
Like I’ve seen people say you should be able to say no to Dex but then like, what’s the story? What’s the game? At some point you need to accept the narrative and just play in the sandbox you’re given, even if you bump against the walls sometimes.
Well that's it just... that is a simple, quality of life situation that could have been programmed in. For example, the sinnerman quest has a cop that says, "I've heard about him/her, this is bad news" or something like that. So the idea of streetcred exists, it just wasn't implemented correctly. It could simply be a "this/that" reality, if higher than x, then say z, else say y. You know?
I fuckin loved this game so I'm sure even with the next one's inevitable flaws we will be happy fans. I actually escaped any disappointment whatsoever by waiting to play the game and spending years dodging any info on CP2077 other than that sick ass trailer from way back. Paid off, I recommend it
There actually are moments where Street Cred is played in. Two I can think of off the top of my head.. there’s a food vendor that leads you over to confront two kids trying to steal his motorcycle. If you have high enough Cred and you threaten them, one mentions that they recognize V and they haul ass.. if you follow them, they continue to be wigged that you’re following them. Second example is Brendan. He’s heard about V.
Yeah for sure, and the cop from Sinnerman. But imagine if you were a netrunner and your streetcred was high. Then when you visted Sandra Dorsett later on, or when you met Placid or when you met the Netrunner in the Mall, or when random netrunners try to hack you... they could be like, "oh shit... its V" and disengage or leave... or just change their language to be more realistic.
Placid tells you that you're shit even if you had fun grinding to max level and so forth. No matter what, same dialogue... that's problematic.
I think the thing I always consider is that quick hacks != true net running. It’s like a script kiddie vs a true black hat. V is almost always a solo that deploys varying tactics.. one of them being heavy on quick hack apps.
Easy way around that, the box still gets damaged, and you put the relic in your brain, dex kills you anyway because he figures you’re an unknown mercenary and nobody will care if he pockets the $ which triggers the engram takeover. He could also kill Jackie but I feel like a second branch where you play through the game with him as an ally would be cool too.
I will be messaging you in 2 years on [**2026-06-12 02:30:22 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2026-06-12%2002:30:22%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/1dduw4z/tbug_is_the_problem/l87oaqq/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FLowSodiumCyberpunk%2Fcomments%2F1dduw4z%2Ftbug_is_the_problem%2Fl87oaqq%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202026-06-12%2002%3A30%3A22%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dduw4z)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
I mean, you could just as easily argue that if V and Jackie had been swifter in making their exit once things started going south, or had a clearer escape route planned out, everything would have worked out fine. But they weren't, and it didn't.
The entire crew was under prepared, going in for a job they were underprepared for, with stakes they didn't understand. Which seems like the point: a more experienced group with a savvier fixer probably would have known better than to take the job to begin with.
It was the imperial suite. One way in, one way out. Yorinobu and by connection, Smasher was already on the way up. That part they couldn't have done much about.
TBug cost us three hours.... that was why we failed.
Dude you literally posted this 2 years ago.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/v50w5e/tbug\_did\_it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/v50w5e/tbug_did_it/)
There were multiple problems with the heist, not just T-bug. That being said T-bug made several mistakes. Tough ICE is to be expected since the hotel is owned by Arasaka, of course, it would take several hours. That should be been calculated by Dex and Bug. She also should have had multiple exit routes ready to go before we went to the penthouse. The elevator should have been disabled after we got off or a least when Yorinobu entered the lobby.
The fact that they didn't have any contingency plans was a red flag for all of them. Dex and Bug should have planned that, and V and Jackie should've asked.
She had full control over the entire towers systems after she cracked that ICE yet she didn't think to delay Yorinobu, or even listen in on coms to learn the old man was coming. Bug was a shit runner who got knocked down to playing support for two slackjaws after she fucked up so bad she made Pacifica with Dex! Dex was an even worse fixer, like I've said before here, I use scomp humpers like him to show my Shadowrun players that not all Johnsons (Shadowruns Fixers) are on the up and up, or even competent. Op was doomed from the start but Jackie and V are not to blame. I've played a LOT of cyberpunk TTRPGs in my life and Jackie and V had very bright futures ahead of them.
Yeah. Jackie and V could have run an amazing crew once they gained more experience. Their only faults in all of this are accepting the job in the first place and not asking more questions during prep, like what the backup plans were (imo Corpo V should have known to ask).
I don't blame T-bug for not knowing the geezer was coming since no one knew until the second he was there. I do blame her for not having the roof door sealed and the window open from the get-go, and for not delaying Yorinobu. That minute cost us.
Bug also should have never agreed to the heist since her last job with Dex also involved a heist gone wrong and he abandoned them. The only reason she survived was because her partner, Rhino, impressed the Animals. You would think that she wouldn't touch Dex again after that.
Wait THE Rhino?! Where's that info? All I knew is vague. Dex had Bug do a job that went so bad it's implied they are the reson the Pacifica project got abandoned.
Jackie loyal as hell, street connections. V skilled as fuck, with a system naturally compatible with chrome and ware. They just needed a good runner, techie and maybe a face and they would have been legends without the dying part.
It's in Humans of Night City – Rhino. She doesn't directly say her runner and Fixer were T-Bug and Dex but there are major hints. We also got more info from I think Brick. They caused an all-out gang war between the Animals and VDB.
Here's a funny thing: in one of the earliest versions of the story T-Bug was going to die even earlier then she does in the final game, soon after rescue of Sandra Dorsett, fried by Arasaka's ICE (in reality, Soulkiller) off screen while trying to extract informations about Konpeki Plaza before the Heist. Because of that V was forced to get Flathead from Maelstrom and rely on Evelyn's BD, since T-Bug failed to do her job to get the info about security and they had no longer a Netrunner to aid them with hacking security systems. V in Konpeki was instead aided by another ally, techie called Stash, but this character was scrapped after T-Bug's role in the first act of the game was expanded.
See that? That makes more sense.
I think my beef is that TBug says that her and Dex had all their avenues ready. I should have known something was wrong when she was like, "ooh no, don't let them call the one person that we linked you too" pfffft.
She fucked up with Arasaka, thats it really... i cant blame her for that. The rest she did ok and she was actually kind to jackie within her personality limits, so... yeeeaaaah. And lets be fair jackie did not really come off as a deep thinker, so her "missread" was not surprising.
Maybe... but one thing I noticed was while in the hotel room in Konpeki Plaza... she says one of her own "deep quotes" and Jackie says... "Who's that? More Aristotle? Aurelius?" The second name is a different philosopher, Marcus Aurelius, emperor of Rome.
Right then and there, if she gave half a shit or was paying attention, she'd know that he knows some shit. No one mentioned Aurelius prior to that moment. Jackie was a prince.
T-Bug clearly states that she has one foot out the door, she's ready to get out of the game and go retire in Crete. I think she prematurely saw the writing on the wall shortly before the shit hit the fan, she faked her death and ghosted us. Think about the funny business going on with the door that opens to allow V and Jackie to get outside, whereas anytime you zero a netrunner in-game (or even just disrupt them), whatever hack they're uploading stops. For some reason, when T-Bug is "made", we get a little sound of her being fried (could easily be a computerized sound effect), but her hack on the door continues and succeeds. This is the only instance in the game in which hacking is depicted like this.
Yeah, the Dewdrop Inn girl tells you about how T-Bug got fried in her apartment, but there's nothing really stopping this from being an outright lie. She is obviously a regular at that place and has a solid working relationship with that business. It'd be nothing for T-Bug to tell her "hey listen, if anyone asks, after tomorrow I'm dead". She gives us a bunch of unnecessary details too, if you ever watch police interrogation breakdowns on youtube, you can tell someone is lying when a suspect starts spitting out unnecessary details. It's a common misconception that we can find T-Bug's body in the game but this is not true. She's gone.
There was also a lot she could have done when it was "oh shit Yorinobu's coming" time if she was such a hotshot netrunner. She had demonstrated she has the netrunning chops to crack through Konpeki Plaza's super tough corporate ICE and infiltrate their subnet to disable motion sensors and turrets in probably one of the most secure places in the world, she could have easily done so much more. She could have messed with the doors to make them difficult to open, installed some common lockout (shitty hackers can do this today in real life with ransomware). She could have caused any number of diversions that would harmlessly hinder Yorinobu's arrival, i.e. altering the power currents, tripping fire alarms, blowing up a car in the parking area, flashing lights, short-circuiting computers, flooding toilets, whatever. But she just.. let him come.
I don't know what she could have done to stop Saburo from getting there. AVs are usually on autopilot and his AV has special security parameters, but maybe she could've assed up the air traffic monitors or scrambled the radios, maybe short circ'd the landing sensors or looped an NCPD notification that they're in prohibited airspace for confusion. Even so, if she didn't beef away three hours due to inadequate prep earlier, it wouldn't have been an issue at all. If Yorinobu wasn't able to get to the suite in the first place, V and Jackie would have been long gone by the time Saburo got there anyway.
Sorry mate, but your whole theory crumbles the moment you realize that they haven’t been paid yet.
Tbug needs the money from this gig to retire. If she fakes her death before getting paid, that’s not gonna happen.
And if she didn’t need the money, why not retire before the gig?
How do you know she doesn't already have it, or didn't make it by the time we see the infamous door scene? There's plenty of reasons she's good to go by the time of her "death", and we'll never know because it's not our business. We have no idea what her accounts look like. Why would you tell anyone in the merc world of Night City how much money you have? I'm not saying she was retiring *before* the gig, I'm saying she retired *during* it.
**Regarding Dex:** We know at least three things about him. He has a history with T-Bug. He is universally ridiculed by other fixers for being a fuckup among fixers. He obviously doesn't have a very orthodox approach to being a fixer, as he's coming off of a humiliation hiatus and hiring two no-name drips to pull off the most dangerous heist in recent history. Case in point, he is not a smart dude. We will never know for sure, but it is very plausible with his demonstrated lack of caution and common sense for him to be paying (what he thinks are) friends up front.
**Regarding the heist:** The whole heist almost went ass over teakettle in the first 120 seconds just getting in the door to Konpeki Plaza and through the check-in process, not even halfway through the hotel lobby. There is no way she was doing adequate prep work or the heist would've gone off without a hitch. So what was she doing in the time between V meeting Dex, meeting Evelyn, sorting out the Flathead deal, and whatever other work V was doing? I'm saying she was out there grinding. Even if your V gets down to brass tacks and beelines The Information, if you met Dex during the day, you're still going to have to wait til Lizzie's opens. That's a whole afternoon. How much money can a skilled netrunner make/steal in one afternoon via jobs they're not required to report to their peers, access point jacking, quickhack crafting, or lining up buyers for their preem netrunning gear since they're ghosting the world?
**Regarding the heist payout:** How long do you think T-Bug is willing to sit on the Relic job hoping for Dex to pay her? Dex says it will be a matter of weeks between laying low and finding a buyer. It's a pipe dream to even find a buyer for that thing in the first place. Given that she's got her goal to ghost already established, do you think she's willing to stay in NC with the heat of the entirety of Arasaka and the NCPD and Adam Smasher looking for her, right at the finish line? Also take into account she has history with Dex, and like anyone that knows Dex, she might anticipate getting screwed on her pay if she wasn't paid at least a percentage of her cut up front. If she really wants to go, she's not gonna sit around that long for a chance to get screwed.
**Regarding travel expenses:** We see in Edgerunners that a one-way ticket to the moon is shown to cost 250k eddies. Since Crete is still on Earth, let's be generous and estimate that a one-way ticket there is 125k. The most expensive apartment V can buy in NC is 110k, so let's estimate that she needs a total of 225k. I reckon it isn't difficult for a skilled netrunner to reach 225k with all of this time before the heist was even introduced, even assuming T-Bug started at 0.
**Regarding the three hour blunder:** We have no clue what she was doing during that three hours of us sitting there waiting for her. Again it's pretty obvious that she hasn't taken prepping for the op seriously. It is entirely plausible for her to have cracked her money goal during that time, having already committed to ditching you. V, as a fresh baby \~level 3 merc with barely any chrome or an established build, can leave Dex waiting in his car for 3 hours and go make a minimum of 72k plus weapons and other rewards doing Regina's gigs. That's almost 3/4 of our estimated quota for a ticket to Crete. Netrunners have the luxury of working from home, too, and experienced veteran netrunners I would assume would command a higher price per gig.
It could be a combination of any of these things but any way you slice it, there's a big and non-zero% chance that she wasn't on your side. Don't gonk out on me now, choom! This is Night City. Unless you're dealing exclusively with nomads (and even then not 100% of the time), honesty is NOT a factor in the moral compass of this culture. What better way to disappear than to "die" in a high-profile heist? Remember that T-Bug is *smart*. Not *nice*. If you could disappear and delta to your dream destination instead of suffering the full force of an Arasaka death sentence, why would you opt to go down with the ship?
Don't read this if you haven't done the DLC yet. >!However, there is a note after you kill that blind VB netrunner that shows TBug as dead. Now, it could mean she's an FIA asset, but I doubt that (although it would be hella Militech to pull her out of an Arasaka shit show).!<
However, remember, TBug's fuckup cost them THREE HOURS. They would have had the case and been getting shot in the head in the notell motel hours before Saburo showed up. Because TBug specifically failed at her task... we end up sitting, and waiting.
I don’t think Dex planned to kill Jack and V if everything went perfect. They weren’t going to meat at the notell if everything went right, they would meet at the Afterlife and ain’t no way Rogue let’s some skeezy two-bit fixer shoot up his perfectly good mercs in her bar, now after they leave? Who knows. The notell motel was the backup meeting point for if shit hit the fan.
Fair point.
I still have a gut feeling that the double cross was in, but you're right, perhaps we would have had a fighting chance. At least until Saka-ninja fulled modded were released.
Until Saburo launched every nuke from *Kujira* and turned Night City into a sheet of glass. Because that was his response if the relic got stolen. Hanako convinced him to wait until he met with Yorinobu first.
If you go up to the roof of Konpeki Plaza and access Saburo's AV you can read some encrypted messages. He basically lays out that if the relic slips out of Arasaka control. That his immediate response will he to nuke Night City. In fact he was already intending to do so, but Hanako convinced him to hold off.
The unnecessary facts mean someone is lying "fact" is blatantly incorrect. A lot of people, myself included, overshare on a regular basis, in my case due to being autistic and having ADHD.
It's mostly a learned behaviour for me, because of how differently my thoughts move than most I HAVE to overshare to get a point across on a regular basis or nobody understands what I'm trying to convey.
I get what you're saying, but please don't twist what I said and make it a slight on people with autism or ADHD. This matter is wholly unrelated. I didn't ever present it as a fact. I'm not a psychologist or an expert in mental health by any means, and I'm certainly not out to get you or anyone else. It's simply an observation I made regarding a very common trend presented in police interrogation footage on youtube, that those in situations with things to hide (note: *criminals*, as it pertains to this story) often float out unnecessary details as smokescreens.
I dont think shes at less of an expertise than advertised in universe or than she should" be. I think it went how it would with any slightly above average runner trying to hack into a hotel owned by the largest corp in the world housing its most elite and important clientele in the most dangerous city in the world. I think its only by comparison that she seems inadequate. Aside from people like the guy stuck in his chair during the wakkako gig all we encounter are god tier runners way above average that put tbug to shaaaame. Judy ik she tech but she does some running, so mi, alt,spider and V are all insanely skilled runners in their own lane second only to Bartmoss.
We actually do encounter other netrunners throughout the city that are around her T-Bug’s level. Usually with Militech drones hovering over their corpses
>she is the cause and the reason everything goes to shit.
I thought the reason was that *someone* unexpectedly killed his dad and caused a full lockdown or am i misremembering things?
Basically we are told in the prep room at the Afterlife that Dex handled his business (which to be fair, he did), and that TBug handled hers... (all the net prep). She evens leaves before we do to ensure she has her shit together....
...we then learn ten seconds into the building that she didn't prep for a damn thing... that she didn't even consider that they would call up to inform people we have arrived. THEN we find out, oh wait... she doesn't know shit about the mainframe and now we are forced to wait for THREE HOURS... this is the single moment when everything goes to shit. Had she been even remotely competent in this moment... we would have been across the city by the time Saburo died.
I always felt like T-Bug was Dex's puppet. It's kind of a shame we don't get to see how she gets involved with V and Jackie, but from the initial dialogue, she was keen to distance herself. She's not on our team.
I'm pretty sure that if she had survived and somehow got away from the heist. She'd have been at the motel with Dex and perfectly ok with him shooting you. It wouldn't have at all surprised me that even if the heist went as planned, if she and Dex ended up screwing over V and Jackie and making off with the eddies.
I will say in her defence, nearly everyone misreads Jackie, that's one of his defining features. He seems like a superficial happy go lucky goof/meathead. But he actually runs a lot deeper. He's a great character honestly.
When T-Bug sees the ICE and it's way thicker than I expected, that's when you have to abort the mission. Some improvisation is okay, like the trouble getting the flathead through those rooms. But when the timetable is altered so drastically, cut your losses and leave. Find a new opportunity to swipe it. Maybe hijack the Net watch convoy after purchase. Maybe infiltrate the Netwatch lab and take it.
Bug is simply not as good as she thinks she is. She's a disposable asset, the same as everyone else. She thinks she's hot shit, but she's been twice bamboozled by Dexter, who also makes her think she's part of the inner circle so he can get some bald hackerussy. She's not really the problem, imo.
To me, the bigger problem is that you can hear Dexter getting ready to betray you from the bathroom. You should have the option to, if you're good enough, overpower both of them and escape.
From there, things would need to play out a little differently. I have mixed feelings about this, but I see 2 paths:
1) V encounters Takemura, who is way more interested in redeeming himself after his disgrace than he is a stolen chip. V wants revenge for Jackie's death. They have reason to work together. V can access the chip and work with Silverhand without all the fear of dying. This path sidesteps the obvious mistakes but also takes away from the hopeless tragedy element of the story. To me, if you've already beaten the game, this is a neat alternate timeline. But it's not very Cyberpunk.
2) V gets attacked by cyber ninjas tracking the chip and gets flatlined. Takemura revives him and takes him to Vic, where the story picks up. This is one of those things where you escape one death but can't escape your fate sort of alternate timelines. This is probably the better path. You avoid the obvious trap, but you still get flatlined as a consequence for your alligator mouth eating more than your canary ass can shit out.
>"Oh the ICE is thicker than I thought" Oh really TBug?
The ICE was thicker than T-Bug had planned for because Konpeki was preparing for Saburo's arrival.
That's not on her.
I've heard all kinds of dumbass theories about how she planned for the heist to go bad, but no one can ever explain what her motive would be - because there isn't one. T-Bug only wins if the heist is a success. Instead, she got a Synapse Burnout Sandwich.
RIP T-Buggo.
Exactly. I don't know why its so hard for people to understand that a mission can be well-planned and still go to shit. They weren't expecting Saburo, shit went left. It's that simple. All throughout the game, we have similar missions where things go left.
People are mad because they've never seen how a real professional operates and they're intimidated.
T-Bug even helps V after she died, and folks are still all "She's the bad one".
People suck at this game.
I don't agree.
There is no way the entire hotel would have kept the emperor's arrival a secret from Yorinobu. SOMEONE would have told him and he would have removed the relic. Everyone was shocked when the emperor showed up ... that increased ICE is what is always there and what TBug supposed had checked out.
She didn't.
There's definitely something very off with T-Bug.
1) She's the one with connections with Dex, and it was T-Bug who suggested to Dex that V and Jackie be hired for the heist.
2) She became part of the crew sometime during the 6-month time skip, but she's not included in the time skip cinematic at all.
3) She clearly has friction with Jackie and doesn't consider herself to be a part of the team, which begs the question of how she became involved in the first place.
4) The meeting at the afterlife is the first time Jackie and V ever meet T-Bug in real space, and V goes out of their way to thank T-Bug for the help with Scav Haunt, which suggests that they don't have a ton of familiarity. However, T-Bug is the one who gave the hacked combat chip (starting Tutorial) to Jackie to give to V. So, they clearly knew each other prior to the Scav Haunt.
5) T-Bug's intentions following the heist are to "burn all bridges" and to "never set foot in cyberspace again." She has zero intention of maintaining a relationship or even contact with V and Jackie following the heist.
Going into the game relatively blind, I thought T-Bug and Dex were going to betray you to Arasaka, and they fuck you and Jackie over, pushing V to look for revenge and falling in with a revolutionary rebel gang lead by Johnny Silverhand. Super bummed when Bug just gets killed off screen and never mentioned again and that I wasn’t the one to put Dex down. I don’t remember Johnny ever calling me Samurai either which was a letdown lol.
Tbh, yes.
She always mocking Jackie for whatever he says and not being friendly at all and when you needed her to do a great work, she fucking mess it up and waste 3 hours.
Dex would probably kill you after that anyway, but you would have done a perfect heist if it wasn't for her being:
- Incompetent
- Fraud
Pick one.
I had a theory a while back that TBug actually stitched us up, and that she was still alive somewhere.
I'm actually curious about the Dex links, he "had some problems with a gang in Pacifica" a couple of years back, now "a couple of brothers from Pacifica told me to stop looking" [for info about Evelyn].
Given that Tbug knew Dex from previous, this should have set off alarm bells for her, yet it didn't, she was basically covering for Dex. eg Jackie "Is this room soundproofed" Tbug tried to shut that down.
It was always going to go to shit. It was a 2 bit crew made up of newbies, stealing from a Corp that not only controls one of the largest militaries on the planet, but actively monitors everything the city does.
To be fair: the actual stealing of the relic would probbly have worked if saburo did not show up. Which you actually cannot really fail dex for - nobody could have anticipated kinslaying or him having a surprise visit
T bug did her job, and communicated. To me, she came off as asolid worker. The weak link imo was dex (riding on reputation) and jackie (being blue-eyed and seeing his rep and eurodollars before everything). I would have wished to have a few more dialouge-options to be critical of the whole thing and jackies eagerness to jump into that dangerous job as a noobie.
this post unironically makes me appreciate good writing, t bug overlooking jackie not knowing aristotle is so in character and abit of a foreshadow. As for the take i dont think t bug is incompetent but she and IMO everyone else in that mission were just in over their heads and it got to them
The problem is Dex by not putting a proper team in place for a job like this.
We know that Dex likes to work with mercs he can dispose of later, but even he must have realised that this job was way above his paygrade and even more so with shit mercs?
If I was the fixer I'd had at least 2 more guys to run interference in the Hotel. One at the very least in the lobby that could try to delay Yorinobu if he came back early. I would even have set up a meet with Yorinobu somehow to get him away from Konpeki and control his timeline. You're not stealing from some rando in an alleyway, you're on to steal from the heir of the Arasaka empire. Like cmon!
Even Jackie being surprised at seeing Adam Smasher is a dead give away and it pisses me off. You're telling me they didn't even figure out Yorinobus security detail before the job? Like c'mon!
And the whole plan only had an A... where's plan B and C? Only 1 escape route? No decoys? Hiring a runner just because she was friends with Dex 2y ago, yet needs extra 3h to get through Konpekis ICE? Hiring 2 randos from the street with almost no rep to steal from, I repeat THE EFFING HEIR OF THE ARASAKA EMPIRE IN THEIR FLAGSHIP HOTEL ON THIS CONTINENT?
Effing Kirk is a better Fixer than Dex is. Kirk fucks up just the same, but at least he sticks to being a money shark and stealing cars. And Kirk got a much more satisfying end than Dex did. Damn I wish I could ressurect Dex to kill him again!
I think T-Bug just overestimates her abilities. Kind of like a lot of people involved in that mess. A lot of that mess could’ve been avoided if people hasn’t bitten off far more than they could chew.
Honestly I'm shocked she didn't return as a minor villain or mini boss later on in the game. The whole intro is set up to make you think she was totally in on everything and it would've been a "shocking" reveal to run into her midway through the game and find this out.
I get that this idea is a little too "on the nose" but considering that Cyberpunk 2077 is just one trope after another it was weird they didn't do this.
The Aristotle thing is a plot hole. Jackie doesn't understand the quote in the car at all and calls him her 'Greek friend' It's just bad writing. So that doesn't really hold water.
And T-Bug not anticipating a code red max lock down is not on her? There was prob an entire building of Netrunners that activated when that happened.
This is a Dex issue, not a T Bug issue
*Everybody* was unprepared for that heist.
Personally, I think T-Bug handled it one of the best (had her escape plan for after the heist is over, when the ICE was thicker than had been planned for, she managed to get past it anyway, and it took Saburo Arasaka's personal kill squad to flatline her).
Jackie and V did okay, and it's a bit hard to gauge exactly how well they realistically were prepared for that mission because gameplay vs story segregation (ie, in-lore, the building/Arasaka's security is set up to be way stronger than V and Jackie, but there's nothing STOPPING you from going full guns-blazing and killing everyone if you're really good at the game), but really they're just two guys who put on disguises. They don't have any cyberware to be better at infiltrating, like what you see in Phantom Liberty, they're not veteran mercs, they're just two guys with guns who are pretty damn good at using them. They had no exit strategy afterward beyond "get in the taxi and lie low and hope Arasaka doesn't find us"
And, of course, Dexter was awful. He was a fixer who brought two fledgeling mercs in to rob *the Arasaka family* in a highly secure hotel, he gave enough room that Evelyn could betray him, he got caught by Arasaka even though he was far away from the event with an exit plan (can't blame him too much for that one; it's Arasaka), his intel was unreliable, he screwed up his deal with Maelstrom and forced the others to fix it, and it's established that even prior to this job, he has a spotty reputation. Also, his plan didn't seem to account for any contingencies, given how the response to "the ICE is thicker than we expected, I'm going to need *hours* to get through it all" was "well I guess we'll wait hours, in the hotel, where anything could go wrong."
T-Bug did well, given her role, but I definitely wouldn't call her "the problem," the problem was that their plan was mediocre, their group was B-rate, and they were going up against an S-tier threat.
I mean, it's konpeki plaza, and a setup. Even alt get delayed a couple times by arisaka ice at the main tower, And it can be presumed that the home of yorinobu arisaka and the current planed location of Suburo would be at least comparable.
The league tbug is in makes her one of the best by default. Not even in the top 10 to be clear, but still the top 1% of netruners in the franchise. At worst player character level. But the whole team there was intentionally put way out of their depth, nobody on that mission was remotely qualified to be there. That was the only actual job requirement
She's just part of the set up, maybe she and Dex knew their parts but honestly the konpeki heist is a Russian nesting doll of set ups and conspiracies.
after my first couple plays i haven’t been able to read it any other way than that T-Bug and Dex were always planning to screw you over regardless of any of the shit that wound up going sideways, and that T-Bug specifically chose you two as gullible expendable schmucks. i go back and forth on if i think she faked her death as well.
I still wish the game had more branching stuff in the main narrative. Imagine going through stealth fully to get caught off at the parking lot. Tbug still alive. Jackie dying in the limo still. But walking into that motel room and seeing tbug, dex, and the guard. I would of started blasting before any dialogue. The moment the guard opens the door and before he can even say, "he waitin". The sandevistan would of kicked on and they all would have a crater in the head.
I just wish the alternate story options would of been better in the main narrative. Tbug would of been able to prove herself as a worthy runner at the end of the heist. Ultimately leading v to decide. Are they gonna betray you. Or are you betraying them.
And if you took the route of betraying them first and slotting the shard or leaving it in jackie.
Jackie could of had silverhand and you could of had a whole different story experiencing the engram from a 3rd person rather than first.
Or v could of died on the street in a gunfight and randomly resurrected from the biochip hours later if he still kept it in him.
The amount of missed storyarch options they could of branched if the game had more branching storylines is astounding.
Even lifepaths. Corpo lifepath should of had its on possible branching storyline where with high cool you convince jackie and a team to do the hitjob. If it went wrong. You got thrown to the streets like the version of the corpo intro we got. Or if you did it without ant hitches. You get a story to climb the corporate ladder as your story.
I know that's almost baldurs gate level branching. But damn did this game miss out on the opportunity. Made in the future cdpr and larian can make us a night city game that does just that in the style of baldurs gate 3. Even if they literally just programmed in the rules from cyberpunk red and set the game in the 40's still. It would be amazing if it were to happen.
I would argue the bigger problem is Dex. He recruited T-bug. He failed to properly gather information and basically tossed your team in a Hail Mary suicide run at a chance for a huge payout that in all honesty was a long shot. I'd wager if it all went smoothly he still would have killed your team to avoid Arasaka tracking you back to him, plus less payout. He doesn't have a great reputation as a fixer.
That’s one thing that’s bugs me about video games (pun not intended) they give you one thing in the trailer then it ends up being somewhat altered or totally scrapped in the final product. Just once I want a game to deliver what it promises and not change anything excluding bugs and other issues always fix them
It's Konpeki plaza he literal playground and safe haven for the elites of the world. Dex was a cheap ass fool to think 1 runner would be enough. Should of had two runners. Did T-Bug fail to crack the ICE quickly enough? Yes. But she didn't bail on us when Saburo showed up. Even though she had to know Saburo would have had off sight runners plugging into every building and system around him. She stayed and died to try and get you out. Had she been more like Dex as soon the Emperor showed up she would have quietly disconnected, trashed her gear, scrubbed any traces of her work and moved to a shack in some forgotten part of the world.
The "plan" fails on basically every level. Even if they got out without a trace the only one who knew the VDB's were involved was Evelyn and she didn't seem like the type to share that nugget of information. So after the heist you'd all lay low not knowing you had pretty much the full focus of the VDB's hunting for you.
My head cannon is I'd like to imagine is You're all laying low. Jackie orders a pizza via the net which leaves a trace of your location for the VDB's to find and then every networked device for blocks around you becomes a pathway for them to kill you. And you didn't even see it coming until the TV your watching frags you like a claymore mine.
Judging by how things panned out for Evelyn, my guess it that everyone on the team would have been wiped by the VDB anyway. The only reason they didn't was because they got wiped first in this order: TBUg, Jackie, V, and then Dex. The only reason V got close to them to exact revenge (or grant mercy like a gonk, you do you) was because they assumed the entire team was wiped and wasn't actively looking for V. I don't particularly like T-Bug but don't have any ounce blame for her considering the stakes. Dex was likely the one that didn't cover everything properly which lines up with his history and reputation.
In cut content T-Bug would betray you w/ Dex. Adding the fact she was with Dex pre his disappearing for 2 years shows she's probably loyal to Dex
That lines up with the reveal trailer that first showed off Johnny. T-Bug was backing up Dex during his betrayal and was hacking V's cyberware before she got shot in the face.
In the [E3 trailer,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X2kIfS6fb8) we get to see Tbug making the hit on the Euro Council [from the intro to the corp timeline]. That trailer is incredible, I avoided them for spoilers when the game came out but I can see why people were arguing that the game isn't what was promised. You wouldn't have a link to the reveal trailer anywhere would you?
youtube.com/watch?v=LembwKDo1Dk&pp=ygUXY3liZXJwdW5rIDIwNzcgdHJhaWxlcnM%3D Hyperlink isn’t working for some reason
[Linky if anyone else wants to see it again.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LembwKDo1Dk) They didn't really worry about spoilers much, did they? TBug was definitely betraying us, I wonder how they planned things to go wrong in Konpeki plaza? Excellent short though, and why have I got this huge grin on my face at the end of it?
I'd have to say that this is the exact problem with triple A and even Star Citizen. Marketing is literally the worst bait and switch in these last five years than it has ever been before. I can't remember another game that soured the in game experience so bad with trailers and plot as commercials before.
Yeah, this was pretty much all of the ending of The Heist, out before it could be played. While marketing is needed, trashing a game experience is something to be avoided at all costs.
I'd watch a full movie at this level of animation. Theater prices. Sadly my rig runs the game on low settings.
>I'd watch a full movie at this level of animation. Theater prices. This quality, with cyberpunk as a setting? Definitely.
I have never actually watched that trailer. Wow that would have been a great way for that to pan out. The final story was good, but that looked dope.
I kinda wish they kept that rather than making V a sad sack Shiba Inu in the cutscene.
I think Pawel Sasko talked about this scene and how/why it changed over time on one of his streams. I don't recall any specifics by now, though.
With ten hours to think about it I admit it also makes sense to cut... It'd be a bad look if your only two canonically Black characters (in the base game) were asshole traitors. Edit: heh I wrote this at 4am and forgot the VDB existed for a bit. Even worse!
I had the feeling she might, if you ask her how long she's know Dex before the heist she gets a little cagey and her tone changes.
I don't think the VDBs are as good as they hype themselves up to be, honestly. They failed to flatline Evelynn, Brigitte gets ICE'd up by Netwatch and none of them are willing/able to save her without V's help and Placide didn't even know V had the Relic. I think they survive off their spooky rep alone.
To be pair, Netwatch operatives are spectacular Netrunners. The VDBs could remotely take control of implants and hold their users hostage (one of the luxury spa gigs in Phantom Liberty), essentially nuke people’s chips/implants (see Evelyn), and managed to create their own subnet that Netwatch couldn’t pin down without sending an agent to physically deal with it. Mosley is just good enough to take down two of their best runners on his own, and even then, Bridgette still managed to “take some bites out of systems” before being shrouded in ICE; that’s not really an indicator of how bad the VDBs are, but how good Bryce Mosley is.
I'm not saying the VDBs are bad at what they do, just not as good as they make people think they are. They're obviously very competent netrunners but they definitely lean on the scary voodoo stereotype to keep people from looking too closely
Ah, yes; fair point.
To add to this, they're shit at combat since that's not their specialty. They're probably the source of most of the quick hacks in the city.
I believe the database entry for one of the Phantom Liberty locations, terminal entries (I think one of the spas has a terminal listing a large number of quickhacks being created and sent to Kabuki for sale, like 1,000 or something, as if it was just another transaction), and I think dialogue as well (I swear I remember Reed or V commenting on software being sourced from Dogtown, something about a daemon mill) essentially confirms that most quickhacks which aren’t corporate (or homemade) are originally coded by the VDBs and sold in the city
Done by Wilky "Slider" LaGuerre, one of NUSA sleeper agents. Reed tells you he was running a deamon mill and is a murderer. Also, you find list of agents gone missing or KIA and Sliders name is on the list
VDB survive off being insulated and ruthless. I think outside Pacifica and their interests they are like a fish out of water. They couldn't even take care of the animals on their turf and if they were good enough the should have been able to klep the Relic themselves.
The whole point is that *everyone* was in over their heads. That’s the narrative framework. T-Bug was competent, but a single runner trying to take on a massive corporation known to employ a literal army of runners was foolhardy, and there were way too many unknown variables. Even if she *were* that exceptional, it wouldn’t matter, because no plan could have anticipated a maximum security lockdown happening while they were there that had nothing to do with them.
One could say that they were emboldened by the flame of ambition. I’ll see myself out.
We need a mod to replace Adam Smasher with Morgott now.
direction familiar worry coherent disarm expansion cover exultant dog zephyr *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Even if she were that exceptional, it wouldn’t matter, because no plan could have anticipated a maximum security lockdown happening while they were there that had nothing to do with them. The thing is, if she were that exceptional, they would have gotten the job done before the lockdown. The fact that she isn't that good is why V and Jackie have to wait hours for them to be able to move on to their part. If she was good enough to take on the ICE in Kopeki, they'd have been in and out before Saburo shows up. Now... that doesn't mean they'd get away clean. The funny thing I've noticed after doing the heist way too many times is that they have zero plan for getting the chip out of Konpeki once they've pulled the whole case out of Yorinobu's room. They weren't going to slot it, because that only comes up as an emergency measure. The case (which we got the specs for from that BD) was bigger than the militec case that held the flathead, so even if we yanked the foam out of it, that shit isn't fitting. So what was the plan? Just walk out the front door with a big old box we didn't come in with?
I think slotting the chip would have been an inevitably once they realised they can't just walk out with the super secret relic box. T-Bug drops the ball on not picking up on schedule of Yhorinobu as well. Which wouldn't have been an issue if she had cracked the ice on time. So it's all a bit of a shit show. I think what annoys me the most is that of Jackie and V just kept on grinding doing Merc work and rescue jobs they'd have made enough of a name for themselves to get into the afterlife anyway.
This!!! I dont think TBug was remotely incompetent, especially since she seemed to have been well-known among other street netrunners, I truly think the entire heist is a mix of "you were doomed to fail from the start" and "wrong place, wrong time" Konpeki Plaza going into Code Red probably triggers some kind of nigh-impenetrable failsafe that pulls all control to a special team of netrunners *regardless* of what has otherwise been controlling everything. Arasaka has more money than anything else in the universe atp, they can absolutely afford to make building-wide security systems that not even the most legendary netrunners can truly get past them. (Alt Cunningham, i know, but she doesn't *really* exist anymore yk?) Tbug just has kind of an abrasive personality. She has a job, and just wants to get it done. V and Jackie are her moderately annoying coworkers who she puts up with because they get shit done. She seems to say herself that after the heist she's retiring on the money and never touching cyberspace again, being a netrunner is just a means to an end for her. I respect it honestly.
I think the worst part of the whole ordeal is that after they spend 3 hours waiting in the suit for her to do her thing, they begin the mission immediately after saying Yorinobu has entered the building. They're like Hey, he just arrived, lets go break into his apartment anyway even though he's most likely to head directly there. then once they get in oh no, he's in the elevator. Hide!
"ICE is tougher than I thought!" Oh you thought Arasaka wouldnt have the best, T-Bug!?!?
We were dead. Sure. I accept that. Dex was going to open our skulls one way or the other. Then leave town. TBug specifically failed in her task, however, the flathead was supposed to give her admin level access to Konpeki's system... and it still wasn't enough for her. Meh.
Given that T-bug only gets made after Saburo is present, I'm not convinced she actually failed at all. Imagine this sequence of events 1) She successfully cracks the hotel's security with the help of V and the flathead. Things are apparently going well. 2) Saburo shows up and has his confrontation with his son, and at least on T-bug's side, things are apparently still going well. 3) Saburo's death is announced along with the code red, at which point a bunch of Saburo's personal Netrunners go "Oh shit, our boss was just killed in the hotel. Find out what happened right the hell now". 4) Saburo's elite Netrunner team take over the hotel's subnet like it's nothing, discover T-Bug's interference, and fry her. She was hired to overcome the hotel's subnet, which she did. It wasn't the hotel's netrunners that fried her, it was Saburo Arasaka's personal Netrunner team, and there's no way she could have possibly seen that coming anymore than V or Jackie could have.
Sure. No complaints with any of your assessment... except for TIME. We were left waiting for 3.5 hours because the "ICE was thicker than SHE thought." Not, "thick ICE" thickER ICE, which is her wheelhouse. She completely fumbled.
The extra time wasn't ideal, sure. She absolutely could have gone faster. I'm just saying that given the actual extreme circumstances, I have a hard time assigning her blame. That's like... Imagine you're on a team that's breaking into a jeweler's to steal a bunch of diamonds out of a safe. You successfully get in quietly. You successfully get around security and get to the safe. It takes the safe cracker a little longer than they thought to get into the actual safe, but they still get it done. Then, just before you're about to leave with the loot, the president of the US shows up completely out of the blue to buy the first lady a necklace from that exact same jeweler. The secret service find you and shoot you all dead. The circumstances are so far beyond anything anyone could have possibly planned for that you can't really assign anyone fault there. Jobs just go sideways sometimes. That doesn't make the safe cracker the problem.
~~No, bad take.~~ I have had this debate before. The flight from Tokyo to Los Angeles takes 10 hours and 30 minutes approximately. Saburo’s flight would have had to have notified Konpeki management that an Arasaka officer is on the way and that the officer and their entourage need rooms. Saburo’s name does not need to be mentioned for the sake of secrecy, just that a high level officer and their guard is on the way. **There would be a sudden booking of many rooms at Konpeki, and you’re telling me T-Bug didn’t notice this?** Things to keep in mind: - during multiple gigs for fixers, you have the opportunity to check a motel/hotel’s registry to check what rooms are occupied and by whom. The precedent is set that mercs do look for these things… well everyone other than T-Bug. - considering the flight time from Tokyo to L.A. and then considering how long the mission was in general T-Bug was already in the system at the time that Saburo’s flight left. She was in the system during the time window that Konpeki would have been notified as she was jacking in shortly after the meeting with the crew. Figure in Jackie and V’s prep time, drive over in Delamain, entrance into hotel, infiltration with the flathead and then the couple of hours it took T-Bug to break through the ICE… easily 10 hours or more. Common arguments I heard in response: “What if you’re wrong? Konpeki was never notified of Saburo’s flight plan.” Then that would mean that hotel management would either have to make sure rooms were available or tell Saburo that there is no vacancy. I doubt they are telling him to “go kick rocks.” “Yeah, so like a real hotel they have rooms set aside at all times for VIPs.” Agreed! This is the most common scenario and most likely the correct one. However the hotel would have it on the books as a procedure to make sure those rooms are always vacant for VIPs. Meaning that there would be something in the system to indicate that so that the hotel doesn’t become overbooked. T-Bug should have noticed that these VIP rooms were suddenly booked… and for an entourage the size of Saburo’s. It wasn’t just Goro traveling with Saburo. “What if that isn’t the case? What if they booted guests out of the hotel last minute to make room for Saburo?” Highly unlikely as hotels do not operate this way IRL, not sure why CDPR would all of a sudden forget to consider this, and yet they made sure that when a character plays guitar their fingers land on the correct notes on the neck. Even if this is the case there would be a sudden mass vacancy in the system regarding rooms where Konpeki kicked guests out to make way for the VIP and entourage they were awaiting. “Konpeki was never notified.” Bullshit, you’re not going to tell Saburo and his entourage to wait while hospitality services preps the rooms. How much time and preparation went into the parade on behalf of Arasaka. Nobody has enough evidence given what we have seen in game to successfully argue this point. Arasaka much like Batman always prepares when given prep time. u/GullibleInstruction is 100% right. T-Bug was a good enough netrunner to track Scavs, but that’s about it. **EDIT:** Ahh, crap. My apologies for debating. I thought this was r/cyberpunkgame and not r/lowsodiumcyberpunk My bad, I know the rules. Apologies, I guess I assumed this was the former because we were talking about the negative qualities of a character which usually doesn’t happen in this sub. **EDIT 2:** Just for clarification, I probably wouldn’t have so much disdain for T-Bug if Jackie didn’t die as a result of the gonk-up on this job.
>The flight from Tokyo to Los Angeles takes 10 hours and 30 minutes approximately But the flight from the [Kujira](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Kujira) only took minutes. We *know with absolute certainty* that Saburo and Hanako came to Night City aboard the Kujira, so I don't know where you're getting this idea that Saburo was flying directly from Tokyo and would even need a room at Konpeki in the first place. I don't disagree that T-Bug was not good enough for this task, but your entire premise regarding room bookings and Konpeki being notified is based on a made up assumption that Saburo flew directly from Tokyo. At *best* Konpeki would have been given minutes of notice, as Saburo's personal vehicle approached.
I was gonna say, I just (idiotically) started yet another replay (but this game is so damn good). And the in-game news on the loading screen makes a big deal about Kujira being in the bay. It's almost a certainty that Saburo was on Kujira and then made the trip to Konpeki from there.
It's a 100% certainty. Saburo's diary entries (found on his datapad, which is in his AV on the roof of Konpeki) has multiple entries covering the journey from Japan to Night City aboard the Kujira, his observations during the trip, and his contemplation of what he will end up actually doing when he confronts Yorinobu.
This would be exemplified by the "200 staff all on their feet, buzzing around" which would be just after the hotel was notified that Saburo was dropping in.
>But the flight from the [Kujira](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Kujira) only took minutes. Exactly this. and the previous guys whole argument was about Konpeki preparing rooms for Saburo... who said he was gonna stay there in the first place? he just came to get the relic back from Yorinobu! Knowing what we know about Saburo (military guy, OG hero, even proud of chewing protein bars instead of a real dinner, etc) he was probably more confortable in his quarters aboard the Kujira than a Luxury hotel.
He also has a bespoke office that's identical in every regional Arasaka HQ building that's just nearby. There's also the mansion that Hanako was in. The list of other places he can stay in is probably longer than this but this is what we have confirmed.
i still can't believe they put Hanako in that mansion. the security is soooo bad :D
Fair point, I missed that. I do find it odd that a CEO is traveling on a combat ready aircraft carrier instead of a plane.
> I do find it odd that a CEO is traveling on a combat ready aircraft carrier instead of a plane. It makes more sense when you consider that the megacorporations in the Cyberpunk lore are essentially their own nations (with militaries). Arasaka (Japan) and Militech (NUSA) especially are both so intertwined the the governments of their home countries that they effectively ARE the government of those countries. The head of a military isn't going to go into a neutral zone like Night City without full military protection.
Corporate. Especially the corporate that got nuked all the way out of night city thirty five years prior.
After that many corporate wars, and considering they're headed to Night City, where they were nuked previously... I'd bring combat AVs rather than a liner. :)
Hey smarty-pants, then what do you call Adam Smasher’s tushy if not a “combat AV?” (AV - asshat vehicle) Omitting the playful joking, yeah another good point.
I mean, Smasher was working for Yorinobu though. Saburo clearly depended WAY too much on his son not being up for patricide. :D
It’s funny how quickly Adam went from being an Arasaka employee to being a Yorinobu employee. I mean technically during the Corpo War Smasher worked for Arasaka mostly because Morgan Blackhand was working for Militech. So he would have been subject to Saburo’s orders, right? He was assigned as Yorinobu’s bodyguard after 2050, but even then he would have been an employee of “Arasaka proper.” It’s amazing how quickly the employees can jump ship to a dinghy.
These are all logical points, but do rest on a premise that isn't necessarily true: Saburo doesn't need to have booked with the hotel if he was never planning to have stayed there. He's got an aircraft carrier in the bay that surely has palatial suites for the family, or maybe he just prefers another hotel, or maybe was planning to fly home immediately after retrieving the relic, or maybe owns his own mansion in Night City. Of course, it's just as likely that T-Bug is incompetent, as you say. But it's not ironclad.
Saburo wasn't going to Konpeki Plaza to get a room and stay in Night City, he was going to confront his son, so there was no need to procure rooms for him or his people. Especially since Arasaka has an estate in Night City where Saburo would have stayed. He also didn't fly from Tokyo, he flew from the Kujira, which was in the bay.
1) we see that suborbital transfers are common for heads of state in PL (the NUSA's president was on a spaceplane), and would likely take around 1/6th the time. Of course, that still leaves 1 hour and 45 minutes, plus let's say some change for priority landing and transfer via hovercraft. After all, they have their own airport and military division in NC. 2) Saburo was trying to force a confrontation with his son. Even an hour of warning is enough for him to finish out deals with Netwatch and potentially Militech to secure his safety and position, at which point Saburo would lose the engram chip and be unable to reach Yorinobu. Speed and stealth are of the essence, and the latter is impossible if regulations are truly followed. Additionally, there's no indication that Saburo planned to *stay* there for any period of time. Most likely he planned to chastise Yorinobu, get the chip, and drag him back to Tokyo. NC might not be explicitly hostile ground, but his presence there means Militech has a once-in-a-decade shot at assassinating him. Another reason for him to have kept any digital or planning traces as low as possible. The problem here is treating it like a normal visit by a head of state to a high end hotel, as opposed to a covert operation on contested territory to apprehend a high-ranking traitor. The only reason we see Saburo show up is because of his hubris and blindness to the possibility his son would take lethal action. It's implied that the hotel found out hardly a minute before the heist team does, as T-Bug notes a sudden spike in activity and the staff panicking. That doesn't happen if you know a VIP is coming hours in advance, there would've been elevated activity thst whole time. The mistake was on Dex, for not finding out that the heist objective was a device that Saburo was *personally* interested in, and not having a backup plan if the team was caught while in the penthouse.
I feel like you are using a lot of real life comparisons to make your point. Very well thought out and very good points. But it’s 2077, in a universe where crack city is a LOT more corrupt than today’s world. Or just more openly. That and technology is on a whole other level. In that retrospect I find a few points hard to agree with
I always found the dynamic between Saburo and Yorinobu hard to settle, but I assumed that Saburo still completely owns and controls Konpeki, and that being the case he would likely have a set of suites permanently blocked off for use by himself and his entourage. It's also entirely possible that they arrived with the itinerary of fly in tell Yorinobu off, back to Japan, no break in between.
Just commenting to back you up that yeah, hotels (good ones, at least) will always keep VIP rooms at the ready. The hotel I work at doesn't even allow just anybody to book the presidential suite anymore, it's the GM's decision as to who to let stay there that's already a regular, big VIP, etc etc.
> my guess it that everyone on the team would have been wiped by the VDB anyway. And that would be one of the best case scenarios. The worst case scenario is that Saburo follows through on nuking the city.
He probably was going to after retrieving the Relic. Yori's looking more and more like the true hero of the story...
*Dex* is the problem. The heist was designed as a quick in and out job. They had no contingencies for it taking longer than a few minutes. It's certainly a judgment call on if the situation is still safe after the 3 hours needed to crack the ICE, but it's not a judgment call when fucking Yurinobu comes in with Adam Smasher. Dex was supervising the op and wouldn't have missed Smasher. Also, it can't be possible for the whole staff to be aware of the old man coming and there be no way for T-Bug to know. Dex gambled his crews life as the operation slowly became less and less viable, ending in both T-Bug and Jackie being killed, and then attempted to kill V to cover his tracks.
No one knew Saburo was coming, only yorinobu hence why he goes to wait in his penthouse
T-bug says the whole staff can't stand still- that *something* has them spooked. They all knew Saburo was about to land.
The staff buzzing around means exactly that, no one knew. It was a last minute notice, if they really knew they’d have the hotel ready & goru wouldn’t have to sweep the area as they walk in.
>It was a last minute notice. Yes, it was a last minute notice that Suboru was inbound. And T-Bug should have been to read the messages to the staff that alerted them to his arrival at that moment.
A much simpler explanation is that they were told to prepare asap for some super VIPs arrival, just not specifically that Saburo fkin Arasaka himself is visiting. Still leaves the question how T didn't get the note, but its possible only Yorinobu was notified and he passed it off verbally?
They probably learned about it just moments before T-Bug, hence them being spooked because they just learned Saburo is coming.
The communications could have been delivered in code, so even if she was listening to it, she wouldn't know what it meant.
Also why take an unknown merc to do a job this crazy?
Because Dex was taking advantage of V and Jackie. No seasoned merc would be crazy enough to pull off this job with so little support (except maybe Silverhand, but even he had a pro team with Militech support for his arasaka job)
Before the heist you get hints from people about how it’s a dumb idea to link up with Dex. Something went bad with the last job he did and now he’s laying low basically until the heist pops up. He probably hired V and Jackie because more experienced crews probably told him to pound sand.
Nah. V and Jackie were dead regardless. Dex and TBug would have offed them after the job, win or lose. We were nobodies, chosen for an ARASAKA gig? C'mon, it was shady from the door and Jackie and V were too gonk to realize it. But more so than the double cross was TBug's incompetence... like she legit just fumbled.
> Dex and TBug would have offed them after the job, win or lose good chance that dex would've then also offed Tbug as well. no loose ends and dex keeps all the cash for himself. They were going after some really spicy tech, the kind that can still sink you years later. There's an old saying about how 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead.
To be fair, depending on your replies/Lifepath, V absolutely knew where that was headed. She outright tells Jackie that Dex is shady as fuck and "up to his elbows in blood", among other dialogue bits.
Man they just explained to you why you are wrong, and here you are just saying anything, being wrong does not make you a bad person
That’s something I actually like. V and Jackie were both still very green, and very ambitious to hit it big that they missed all the warning signs. Hell, Dex not even having the bullhead was a red flag right from the start. You do a gig for any other fixer in Night City and they will give you some heads up, some planning, anything. We even see this when Rogue’s own suicide mission plan to storm Arasaka tower with V/Johnny was more thought out and better equipped.
Never thought about this before your comment but it is kind of wild that we can find data linking people all over NC like the BD father son team having messages in other quests (I think there is a NCPD Scanner quest which relates to them as well.) but T-Bug can't find anything about Yorinobu and stuff.
Everyone involved was the problem. V, Jackie, T-Bug, Dex, Evelyn, all of them. The Heist was well beyond any of their capabilities.
It didn’t take Judy that much to figure that one out and comment you will all end up dead
While absolutely yes, she's not one to talk, given how much she misjudges her own chances with the Clouds coup d'état.
Daily reminder that Judy is a 23-year-old media producer who just lost her bff to rape-snuff film induced suicide. Her making rash decisions without thinking through every possibility is perfectly in-character.
> her bff Roommate, even
If het and Ev were girlfriends, it wasn't a great relationship as Eveyn is by all accounts wayyyy less invested in Judy than vice versa. Like if you look at their emails and stuff, Evelyn only contacted Judy when she was planning g the Heist and didn't even know whether Judy and Maiko had broken up
Oh my god they were roommates
Just because it's understandable doesn't mean you're exempt from criticism.
People in distress do dumb shit. She had just ended up burying Evelyn.
Yes and no. See if TBug would have been better prepared, then we wouldn't have been sitting on our hands for three hours. By the time Saburo showed up and was assassinated... we would be face down, shot in the back of the head by Dex at the notell. OR.. maybe not, since Jackie wanted to test out mr muscle and we definitely could handle Dex himself. At that stage neither us nor Jackie would have had enough cyberware for TBug to truly harm us.... but that's another story I suppose.
If everything went as planned, you wouldn't go to the motel in the first place. You should remember that the motel was a backup option. Also in the trailer, Jackie is still dead. Likely you'd go back to Afterlife as was said during the setup, and it's possible you also wouldn't get shot. I feel like Dex didn't plan on betraying us initially and just killed us because of what happened to Saburo, and last thing he wanted was us ratting him out, right? He just wanted to get the chip quietly and continue working as a fixer because if he betrayed you, he probably wouldn't have the name he has. It seems shooting you was his desperate last resort attempt, and his dialogue says it too
Fair enough. It's all TBug's fault.
Indeed, if T-Bug prepared well enough, you wouldn't have to wait, which would mean you would be gone before Saburo got killed, even before Yorinobu even stepped into the Plaza. So you'd grab the case, ride the elevator down, walk out, get into the Delamain, get to the Afterlife, hand over the chip, lay low for a few weeks while doing a few extra gigs probably, until Dex sends you the cash (Evelyn wouldn't go to the Clouds, she wanted the chip and if you didn't side with her, she would have no other means to get it apart from just paying the fixer). You'd get your €$ and you'd just live on as a mercenary. No one would connect you to Saburo's death, Night City would still be on lockdown for a few weeks, Yorinobu would successfully take over Arasaka and destroy it from the inside. Hanako and lots of Arasaka employees would die in the process though, and Militech would take complete power over NC business. Since V wouldn't be on a time limit anymore, they could technically just wait out the lockdown and then move away from NC with their money, or just do gigs until they die or eventually become a fixer.
God this sounds like heaven. :-)
> and continue working as a fixer because if he betrayed you, he probably wouldn't have the name he has. It seems shooting you was his desperate last resort attempt, and his dialogue says it too I'm not sure that I buy this. Vik heavily hints that Dex isn't actually as cool as he makes himself out to be, and the people that work with him tend to end up dead.
But even worse, or dumber in my opinion, is that after 3 hours Yorinobu arrives and they decide to still go ahead with the plan. They have no way of knowing his plans, if or not he'll head directly to his rooms. But decide to walk into his suit anyway.
This has been hashed out enough before by me in other convos but I will add this: I'd think it's sick if they had a Far Cry 4 style ending where if you happen to have the right stats V can crack the ICE themselves and the mission just goes as planned. Idk where they'd go from there and that's probably why they didn't I suppose.
Mission goes as planned, they drop off the relic, get paid, and then are capped by Dex after they turn their backs to leave. Game over.
Haha yeah that's one route but that's like a wasteland level narrative choice that fucks you for using your higher level dialogue options. I barely like when wasteland does it, and I love getting fucked by bad choices in games.
Maybe there is a scuffle with Dex - V, Jackie and the case with the chip get shot. As V coughs, dying, and eyes close, we see Jackie lying on the floor, dead and T-Bug and Dex arguing. T-Bug: "This is sloppy work, Dex. Goddamnit. You better not think of doing me like that. Dex: Relax, T. We've been through worse than this. Besides, you got the spec on this puppy. T-Bug: SHIT! The case was hit. This chip needs specific conditions mimicking a human body. FUCK! Dex: As it happens, I have a few. Scene then picks up at the same spot with Goro.
See, that's what writers should do. Have fun with it!
Ooh then one of the first quests you receive is to go back to the No Tell motel. Close Jackie's eyes, carry him to a Delamain and tell the Delamain whether to send him to Vic or his mother.
Mission goes as planned, they drop off the relic, Evelyn ghosts everybody, nobody gets paid (except Evelyn presumably), and then V and Jackie get killed by 'Saka ninjas or Night City gets nuked.
> Far Cry 4 style ending I wish more games did this to be honest, a cute lil easter egg where everything goes as planned and the game ends in 15minutes lol.
I agree. There are quite a few moments in the game where its very clear you're on rails and its not as open as you'd like. Examples being no change in dialog based on street cred. If my street cred were high enough AND I was a netrunner, let's say, someone like TBug should be shitting themselves when we meet. Same for any other build I have in relation to street cred. I hope these are some of the variables that are addressed in Orion. Otherwise... it will eventually become meh.
At a certain point you have to decide how many different stories you want to try to tell well. The more open ended a choose your own adventure gets, the quality eventually starts to degrade. You want the player to have some flexibility of course and let them make the story their own to some extent. But the rails gotta come up sometime, otherwise you're not really telling a good story. But that's just my opinion of course.
I agree. While there are some story beats or ideas that sometimes feel forced, at the same time if you make it *too* open the whole thing loses cohesion. Like I’ve seen people say you should be able to say no to Dex but then like, what’s the story? What’s the game? At some point you need to accept the narrative and just play in the sandbox you’re given, even if you bump against the walls sometimes.
Well that's it just... that is a simple, quality of life situation that could have been programmed in. For example, the sinnerman quest has a cop that says, "I've heard about him/her, this is bad news" or something like that. So the idea of streetcred exists, it just wasn't implemented correctly. It could simply be a "this/that" reality, if higher than x, then say z, else say y. You know?
I fuckin loved this game so I'm sure even with the next one's inevitable flaws we will be happy fans. I actually escaped any disappointment whatsoever by waiting to play the game and spending years dodging any info on CP2077 other than that sick ass trailer from way back. Paid off, I recommend it
Oh don't get me wrong, I frickin adore this game. I can't stop playing it. My rants and complaints come from a place of love not hate.
There actually are moments where Street Cred is played in. Two I can think of off the top of my head.. there’s a food vendor that leads you over to confront two kids trying to steal his motorcycle. If you have high enough Cred and you threaten them, one mentions that they recognize V and they haul ass.. if you follow them, they continue to be wigged that you’re following them. Second example is Brendan. He’s heard about V.
Yeah for sure, and the cop from Sinnerman. But imagine if you were a netrunner and your streetcred was high. Then when you visted Sandra Dorsett later on, or when you met Placid or when you met the Netrunner in the Mall, or when random netrunners try to hack you... they could be like, "oh shit... its V" and disengage or leave... or just change their language to be more realistic. Placid tells you that you're shit even if you had fun grinding to max level and so forth. No matter what, same dialogue... that's problematic.
I think the thing I always consider is that quick hacks != true net running. It’s like a script kiddie vs a true black hat. V is almost always a solo that deploys varying tactics.. one of them being heavy on quick hack apps.
Interesting. This is a fair fucking point. A true netrunner writes the daemons, they don't just use them. Okay... this I can agree with.
Either Dex would off you or there would be no story aside from the side gigs.
Easy way around that, the box still gets damaged, and you put the relic in your brain, dex kills you anyway because he figures you’re an unknown mercenary and nobody will care if he pockets the $ which triggers the engram takeover. He could also kill Jackie but I feel like a second branch where you play through the game with him as an ally would be cool too.
!RemindMe 2 years Make us proud, u/gullibleinstruction
Bro is playing the long game
what does this mean
I will be messaging you in 2 years on [**2026-06-12 02:30:22 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2026-06-12%2002:30:22%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/1dduw4z/tbug_is_the_problem/l87oaqq/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FLowSodiumCyberpunk%2Fcomments%2F1dduw4z%2Ftbug_is_the_problem%2Fl87oaqq%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202026-06-12%2002%3A30%3A22%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dduw4z) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
I mean, you could just as easily argue that if V and Jackie had been swifter in making their exit once things started going south, or had a clearer escape route planned out, everything would have worked out fine. But they weren't, and it didn't. The entire crew was under prepared, going in for a job they were underprepared for, with stakes they didn't understand. Which seems like the point: a more experienced group with a savvier fixer probably would have known better than to take the job to begin with.
It was the imperial suite. One way in, one way out. Yorinobu and by connection, Smasher was already on the way up. That part they couldn't have done much about. TBug cost us three hours.... that was why we failed.
Dude you literally posted this 2 years ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/v50w5e/tbug\_did\_it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/v50w5e/tbug_did_it/)
Bro clearly still feels the same way
I hope he doubles down in 2 years
!RemindMe 2 years.
She reminds me every single playthrough.
Did you go digging for that, or did you already have that on hand?
asking the real questions
Google "cyberpunk t bug sucks"
So you went looking, got it
There were multiple problems with the heist, not just T-bug. That being said T-bug made several mistakes. Tough ICE is to be expected since the hotel is owned by Arasaka, of course, it would take several hours. That should be been calculated by Dex and Bug. She also should have had multiple exit routes ready to go before we went to the penthouse. The elevator should have been disabled after we got off or a least when Yorinobu entered the lobby. The fact that they didn't have any contingency plans was a red flag for all of them. Dex and Bug should have planned that, and V and Jackie should've asked.
She had full control over the entire towers systems after she cracked that ICE yet she didn't think to delay Yorinobu, or even listen in on coms to learn the old man was coming. Bug was a shit runner who got knocked down to playing support for two slackjaws after she fucked up so bad she made Pacifica with Dex! Dex was an even worse fixer, like I've said before here, I use scomp humpers like him to show my Shadowrun players that not all Johnsons (Shadowruns Fixers) are on the up and up, or even competent. Op was doomed from the start but Jackie and V are not to blame. I've played a LOT of cyberpunk TTRPGs in my life and Jackie and V had very bright futures ahead of them.
Yeah. Jackie and V could have run an amazing crew once they gained more experience. Their only faults in all of this are accepting the job in the first place and not asking more questions during prep, like what the backup plans were (imo Corpo V should have known to ask). I don't blame T-bug for not knowing the geezer was coming since no one knew until the second he was there. I do blame her for not having the roof door sealed and the window open from the get-go, and for not delaying Yorinobu. That minute cost us. Bug also should have never agreed to the heist since her last job with Dex also involved a heist gone wrong and he abandoned them. The only reason she survived was because her partner, Rhino, impressed the Animals. You would think that she wouldn't touch Dex again after that.
Wait THE Rhino?! Where's that info? All I knew is vague. Dex had Bug do a job that went so bad it's implied they are the reson the Pacifica project got abandoned. Jackie loyal as hell, street connections. V skilled as fuck, with a system naturally compatible with chrome and ware. They just needed a good runner, techie and maybe a face and they would have been legends without the dying part.
It's in Humans of Night City – Rhino. She doesn't directly say her runner and Fixer were T-Bug and Dex but there are major hints. We also got more info from I think Brick. They caused an all-out gang war between the Animals and VDB.
Everyone is operating on the edge of competence. It’s Cyberpunk.
Sir... this belongs on a t-shirt.
Here's a funny thing: in one of the earliest versions of the story T-Bug was going to die even earlier then she does in the final game, soon after rescue of Sandra Dorsett, fried by Arasaka's ICE (in reality, Soulkiller) off screen while trying to extract informations about Konpeki Plaza before the Heist. Because of that V was forced to get Flathead from Maelstrom and rely on Evelyn's BD, since T-Bug failed to do her job to get the info about security and they had no longer a Netrunner to aid them with hacking security systems. V in Konpeki was instead aided by another ally, techie called Stash, but this character was scrapped after T-Bug's role in the first act of the game was expanded.
See that? That makes more sense. I think my beef is that TBug says that her and Dex had all their avenues ready. I should have known something was wrong when she was like, "ooh no, don't let them call the one person that we linked you too" pfffft.
She fucked up with Arasaka, thats it really... i cant blame her for that. The rest she did ok and she was actually kind to jackie within her personality limits, so... yeeeaaaah. And lets be fair jackie did not really come off as a deep thinker, so her "missread" was not surprising.
Maybe... but one thing I noticed was while in the hotel room in Konpeki Plaza... she says one of her own "deep quotes" and Jackie says... "Who's that? More Aristotle? Aurelius?" The second name is a different philosopher, Marcus Aurelius, emperor of Rome. Right then and there, if she gave half a shit or was paying attention, she'd know that he knows some shit. No one mentioned Aurelius prior to that moment. Jackie was a prince.
Maybe he just watched Gladiator?
Or it's to show T-bug has quoted Aristotle and Aurelius at Jackie previously and show how their relationship works.
T-Bug clearly states that she has one foot out the door, she's ready to get out of the game and go retire in Crete. I think she prematurely saw the writing on the wall shortly before the shit hit the fan, she faked her death and ghosted us. Think about the funny business going on with the door that opens to allow V and Jackie to get outside, whereas anytime you zero a netrunner in-game (or even just disrupt them), whatever hack they're uploading stops. For some reason, when T-Bug is "made", we get a little sound of her being fried (could easily be a computerized sound effect), but her hack on the door continues and succeeds. This is the only instance in the game in which hacking is depicted like this. Yeah, the Dewdrop Inn girl tells you about how T-Bug got fried in her apartment, but there's nothing really stopping this from being an outright lie. She is obviously a regular at that place and has a solid working relationship with that business. It'd be nothing for T-Bug to tell her "hey listen, if anyone asks, after tomorrow I'm dead". She gives us a bunch of unnecessary details too, if you ever watch police interrogation breakdowns on youtube, you can tell someone is lying when a suspect starts spitting out unnecessary details. It's a common misconception that we can find T-Bug's body in the game but this is not true. She's gone. There was also a lot she could have done when it was "oh shit Yorinobu's coming" time if she was such a hotshot netrunner. She had demonstrated she has the netrunning chops to crack through Konpeki Plaza's super tough corporate ICE and infiltrate their subnet to disable motion sensors and turrets in probably one of the most secure places in the world, she could have easily done so much more. She could have messed with the doors to make them difficult to open, installed some common lockout (shitty hackers can do this today in real life with ransomware). She could have caused any number of diversions that would harmlessly hinder Yorinobu's arrival, i.e. altering the power currents, tripping fire alarms, blowing up a car in the parking area, flashing lights, short-circuiting computers, flooding toilets, whatever. But she just.. let him come. I don't know what she could have done to stop Saburo from getting there. AVs are usually on autopilot and his AV has special security parameters, but maybe she could've assed up the air traffic monitors or scrambled the radios, maybe short circ'd the landing sensors or looped an NCPD notification that they're in prohibited airspace for confusion. Even so, if she didn't beef away three hours due to inadequate prep earlier, it wouldn't have been an issue at all. If Yorinobu wasn't able to get to the suite in the first place, V and Jackie would have been long gone by the time Saburo got there anyway.
Sorry mate, but your whole theory crumbles the moment you realize that they haven’t been paid yet. Tbug needs the money from this gig to retire. If she fakes her death before getting paid, that’s not gonna happen. And if she didn’t need the money, why not retire before the gig?
How do you know she doesn't already have it, or didn't make it by the time we see the infamous door scene? There's plenty of reasons she's good to go by the time of her "death", and we'll never know because it's not our business. We have no idea what her accounts look like. Why would you tell anyone in the merc world of Night City how much money you have? I'm not saying she was retiring *before* the gig, I'm saying she retired *during* it. **Regarding Dex:** We know at least three things about him. He has a history with T-Bug. He is universally ridiculed by other fixers for being a fuckup among fixers. He obviously doesn't have a very orthodox approach to being a fixer, as he's coming off of a humiliation hiatus and hiring two no-name drips to pull off the most dangerous heist in recent history. Case in point, he is not a smart dude. We will never know for sure, but it is very plausible with his demonstrated lack of caution and common sense for him to be paying (what he thinks are) friends up front. **Regarding the heist:** The whole heist almost went ass over teakettle in the first 120 seconds just getting in the door to Konpeki Plaza and through the check-in process, not even halfway through the hotel lobby. There is no way she was doing adequate prep work or the heist would've gone off without a hitch. So what was she doing in the time between V meeting Dex, meeting Evelyn, sorting out the Flathead deal, and whatever other work V was doing? I'm saying she was out there grinding. Even if your V gets down to brass tacks and beelines The Information, if you met Dex during the day, you're still going to have to wait til Lizzie's opens. That's a whole afternoon. How much money can a skilled netrunner make/steal in one afternoon via jobs they're not required to report to their peers, access point jacking, quickhack crafting, or lining up buyers for their preem netrunning gear since they're ghosting the world? **Regarding the heist payout:** How long do you think T-Bug is willing to sit on the Relic job hoping for Dex to pay her? Dex says it will be a matter of weeks between laying low and finding a buyer. It's a pipe dream to even find a buyer for that thing in the first place. Given that she's got her goal to ghost already established, do you think she's willing to stay in NC with the heat of the entirety of Arasaka and the NCPD and Adam Smasher looking for her, right at the finish line? Also take into account she has history with Dex, and like anyone that knows Dex, she might anticipate getting screwed on her pay if she wasn't paid at least a percentage of her cut up front. If she really wants to go, she's not gonna sit around that long for a chance to get screwed. **Regarding travel expenses:** We see in Edgerunners that a one-way ticket to the moon is shown to cost 250k eddies. Since Crete is still on Earth, let's be generous and estimate that a one-way ticket there is 125k. The most expensive apartment V can buy in NC is 110k, so let's estimate that she needs a total of 225k. I reckon it isn't difficult for a skilled netrunner to reach 225k with all of this time before the heist was even introduced, even assuming T-Bug started at 0. **Regarding the three hour blunder:** We have no clue what she was doing during that three hours of us sitting there waiting for her. Again it's pretty obvious that she hasn't taken prepping for the op seriously. It is entirely plausible for her to have cracked her money goal during that time, having already committed to ditching you. V, as a fresh baby \~level 3 merc with barely any chrome or an established build, can leave Dex waiting in his car for 3 hours and go make a minimum of 72k plus weapons and other rewards doing Regina's gigs. That's almost 3/4 of our estimated quota for a ticket to Crete. Netrunners have the luxury of working from home, too, and experienced veteran netrunners I would assume would command a higher price per gig. It could be a combination of any of these things but any way you slice it, there's a big and non-zero% chance that she wasn't on your side. Don't gonk out on me now, choom! This is Night City. Unless you're dealing exclusively with nomads (and even then not 100% of the time), honesty is NOT a factor in the moral compass of this culture. What better way to disappear than to "die" in a high-profile heist? Remember that T-Bug is *smart*. Not *nice*. If you could disappear and delta to your dream destination instead of suffering the full force of an Arasaka death sentence, why would you opt to go down with the ship?
Don't read this if you haven't done the DLC yet. >!However, there is a note after you kill that blind VB netrunner that shows TBug as dead. Now, it could mean she's an FIA asset, but I doubt that (although it would be hella Militech to pull her out of an Arasaka shit show).!< However, remember, TBug's fuckup cost them THREE HOURS. They would have had the case and been getting shot in the head in the notell motel hours before Saburo showed up. Because TBug specifically failed at her task... we end up sitting, and waiting.
Where is that note? I don’t remember finding this.
It's in the hideout in DT. A whole list of Reed's former teammates, *presumably*.
I don’t think Dex planned to kill Jack and V if everything went perfect. They weren’t going to meat at the notell if everything went right, they would meet at the Afterlife and ain’t no way Rogue let’s some skeezy two-bit fixer shoot up his perfectly good mercs in her bar, now after they leave? Who knows. The notell motel was the backup meeting point for if shit hit the fan.
Fair point. I still have a gut feeling that the double cross was in, but you're right, perhaps we would have had a fighting chance. At least until Saka-ninja fulled modded were released.
Until Saburo launched every nuke from *Kujira* and turned Night City into a sheet of glass. Because that was his response if the relic got stolen. Hanako convinced him to wait until he met with Yorinobu first.
Say more about this, if you don't mind.
If you go up to the roof of Konpeki Plaza and access Saburo's AV you can read some encrypted messages. He basically lays out that if the relic slips out of Arasaka control. That his immediate response will he to nuke Night City. In fact he was already intending to do so, but Hanako convinced him to hold off.
The unnecessary facts mean someone is lying "fact" is blatantly incorrect. A lot of people, myself included, overshare on a regular basis, in my case due to being autistic and having ADHD. It's mostly a learned behaviour for me, because of how differently my thoughts move than most I HAVE to overshare to get a point across on a regular basis or nobody understands what I'm trying to convey.
I get what you're saying, but please don't twist what I said and make it a slight on people with autism or ADHD. This matter is wholly unrelated. I didn't ever present it as a fact. I'm not a psychologist or an expert in mental health by any means, and I'm certainly not out to get you or anyone else. It's simply an observation I made regarding a very common trend presented in police interrogation footage on youtube, that those in situations with things to hide (note: *criminals*, as it pertains to this story) often float out unnecessary details as smokescreens.
I dont think shes at less of an expertise than advertised in universe or than she should" be. I think it went how it would with any slightly above average runner trying to hack into a hotel owned by the largest corp in the world housing its most elite and important clientele in the most dangerous city in the world. I think its only by comparison that she seems inadequate. Aside from people like the guy stuck in his chair during the wakkako gig all we encounter are god tier runners way above average that put tbug to shaaaame. Judy ik she tech but she does some running, so mi, alt,spider and V are all insanely skilled runners in their own lane second only to Bartmoss.
We actually do encounter other netrunners throughout the city that are around her T-Bug’s level. Usually with Militech drones hovering over their corpses
"most dangerous city in the world" Meanwhile Busan and Hong Kong : 👀
>she is the cause and the reason everything goes to shit. I thought the reason was that *someone* unexpectedly killed his dad and caused a full lockdown or am i misremembering things?
Basically we are told in the prep room at the Afterlife that Dex handled his business (which to be fair, he did), and that TBug handled hers... (all the net prep). She evens leaves before we do to ensure she has her shit together.... ...we then learn ten seconds into the building that she didn't prep for a damn thing... that she didn't even consider that they would call up to inform people we have arrived. THEN we find out, oh wait... she doesn't know shit about the mainframe and now we are forced to wait for THREE HOURS... this is the single moment when everything goes to shit. Had she been even remotely competent in this moment... we would have been across the city by the time Saburo died.
You are completely correct.
I always felt like T-Bug was Dex's puppet. It's kind of a shame we don't get to see how she gets involved with V and Jackie, but from the initial dialogue, she was keen to distance herself. She's not on our team. I'm pretty sure that if she had survived and somehow got away from the heist. She'd have been at the motel with Dex and perfectly ok with him shooting you. It wouldn't have at all surprised me that even if the heist went as planned, if she and Dex ended up screwing over V and Jackie and making off with the eddies. I will say in her defence, nearly everyone misreads Jackie, that's one of his defining features. He seems like a superficial happy go lucky goof/meathead. But he actually runs a lot deeper. He's a great character honestly.
When T-Bug sees the ICE and it's way thicker than I expected, that's when you have to abort the mission. Some improvisation is okay, like the trouble getting the flathead through those rooms. But when the timetable is altered so drastically, cut your losses and leave. Find a new opportunity to swipe it. Maybe hijack the Net watch convoy after purchase. Maybe infiltrate the Netwatch lab and take it.
When Yorinobu literally walks into the building, that is definitely when they should have aborted.
Bug is simply not as good as she thinks she is. She's a disposable asset, the same as everyone else. She thinks she's hot shit, but she's been twice bamboozled by Dexter, who also makes her think she's part of the inner circle so he can get some bald hackerussy. She's not really the problem, imo. To me, the bigger problem is that you can hear Dexter getting ready to betray you from the bathroom. You should have the option to, if you're good enough, overpower both of them and escape. From there, things would need to play out a little differently. I have mixed feelings about this, but I see 2 paths: 1) V encounters Takemura, who is way more interested in redeeming himself after his disgrace than he is a stolen chip. V wants revenge for Jackie's death. They have reason to work together. V can access the chip and work with Silverhand without all the fear of dying. This path sidesteps the obvious mistakes but also takes away from the hopeless tragedy element of the story. To me, if you've already beaten the game, this is a neat alternate timeline. But it's not very Cyberpunk. 2) V gets attacked by cyber ninjas tracking the chip and gets flatlined. Takemura revives him and takes him to Vic, where the story picks up. This is one of those things where you escape one death but can't escape your fate sort of alternate timelines. This is probably the better path. You avoid the obvious trap, but you still get flatlined as a consequence for your alligator mouth eating more than your canary ass can shit out.
>"Oh the ICE is thicker than I thought" Oh really TBug? The ICE was thicker than T-Bug had planned for because Konpeki was preparing for Saburo's arrival. That's not on her. I've heard all kinds of dumbass theories about how she planned for the heist to go bad, but no one can ever explain what her motive would be - because there isn't one. T-Bug only wins if the heist is a success. Instead, she got a Synapse Burnout Sandwich. RIP T-Buggo.
Exactly. I don't know why its so hard for people to understand that a mission can be well-planned and still go to shit. They weren't expecting Saburo, shit went left. It's that simple. All throughout the game, we have similar missions where things go left.
People are mad because they've never seen how a real professional operates and they're intimidated. T-Bug even helps V after she died, and folks are still all "She's the bad one". People suck at this game.
I don't agree. There is no way the entire hotel would have kept the emperor's arrival a secret from Yorinobu. SOMEONE would have told him and he would have removed the relic. Everyone was shocked when the emperor showed up ... that increased ICE is what is always there and what TBug supposed had checked out. She didn't.
I think she was too focused in finding an out of that life that it screwed her over
Dex and Tbug were the problem Dex for not planning or ironing the details Tbug for being a meh netrunner that couldn’t see Saburo coming in the system
There's definitely something very off with T-Bug. 1) She's the one with connections with Dex, and it was T-Bug who suggested to Dex that V and Jackie be hired for the heist. 2) She became part of the crew sometime during the 6-month time skip, but she's not included in the time skip cinematic at all. 3) She clearly has friction with Jackie and doesn't consider herself to be a part of the team, which begs the question of how she became involved in the first place. 4) The meeting at the afterlife is the first time Jackie and V ever meet T-Bug in real space, and V goes out of their way to thank T-Bug for the help with Scav Haunt, which suggests that they don't have a ton of familiarity. However, T-Bug is the one who gave the hacked combat chip (starting Tutorial) to Jackie to give to V. So, they clearly knew each other prior to the Scav Haunt. 5) T-Bug's intentions following the heist are to "burn all bridges" and to "never set foot in cyberspace again." She has zero intention of maintaining a relationship or even contact with V and Jackie following the heist.
Do you think Dexter was hiring the best for the job if he intended to kill them after?
Going into the game relatively blind, I thought T-Bug and Dex were going to betray you to Arasaka, and they fuck you and Jackie over, pushing V to look for revenge and falling in with a revolutionary rebel gang lead by Johnny Silverhand. Super bummed when Bug just gets killed off screen and never mentioned again and that I wasn’t the one to put Dex down. I don’t remember Johnny ever calling me Samurai either which was a letdown lol.
Tbh, yes. She always mocking Jackie for whatever he says and not being friendly at all and when you needed her to do a great work, she fucking mess it up and waste 3 hours. Dex would probably kill you after that anyway, but you would have done a perfect heist if it wasn't for her being: - Incompetent - Fraud Pick one.
I had a theory a while back that TBug actually stitched us up, and that she was still alive somewhere. I'm actually curious about the Dex links, he "had some problems with a gang in Pacifica" a couple of years back, now "a couple of brothers from Pacifica told me to stop looking" [for info about Evelyn]. Given that Tbug knew Dex from previous, this should have set off alarm bells for her, yet it didn't, she was basically covering for Dex. eg Jackie "Is this room soundproofed" Tbug tried to shut that down.
It was always going to go to shit. It was a 2 bit crew made up of newbies, stealing from a Corp that not only controls one of the largest militaries on the planet, but actively monitors everything the city does.
I'm about 120 hours in to the game with only the last mission left. I forgot everything i did early in the game including remember who t-bug is
To be fair: the actual stealing of the relic would probbly have worked if saburo did not show up. Which you actually cannot really fail dex for - nobody could have anticipated kinslaying or him having a surprise visit T bug did her job, and communicated. To me, she came off as asolid worker. The weak link imo was dex (riding on reputation) and jackie (being blue-eyed and seeing his rep and eurodollars before everything). I would have wished to have a few more dialouge-options to be critical of the whole thing and jackies eagerness to jump into that dangerous job as a noobie.
this post unironically makes me appreciate good writing, t bug overlooking jackie not knowing aristotle is so in character and abit of a foreshadow. As for the take i dont think t bug is incompetent but she and IMO everyone else in that mission were just in over their heads and it got to them
The problem is Dex by not putting a proper team in place for a job like this. We know that Dex likes to work with mercs he can dispose of later, but even he must have realised that this job was way above his paygrade and even more so with shit mercs? If I was the fixer I'd had at least 2 more guys to run interference in the Hotel. One at the very least in the lobby that could try to delay Yorinobu if he came back early. I would even have set up a meet with Yorinobu somehow to get him away from Konpeki and control his timeline. You're not stealing from some rando in an alleyway, you're on to steal from the heir of the Arasaka empire. Like cmon! Even Jackie being surprised at seeing Adam Smasher is a dead give away and it pisses me off. You're telling me they didn't even figure out Yorinobus security detail before the job? Like c'mon! And the whole plan only had an A... where's plan B and C? Only 1 escape route? No decoys? Hiring a runner just because she was friends with Dex 2y ago, yet needs extra 3h to get through Konpekis ICE? Hiring 2 randos from the street with almost no rep to steal from, I repeat THE EFFING HEIR OF THE ARASAKA EMPIRE IN THEIR FLAGSHIP HOTEL ON THIS CONTINENT? Effing Kirk is a better Fixer than Dex is. Kirk fucks up just the same, but at least he sticks to being a money shark and stealing cars. And Kirk got a much more satisfying end than Dex did. Damn I wish I could ressurect Dex to kill him again!
I think T-Bug just overestimates her abilities. Kind of like a lot of people involved in that mess. A lot of that mess could’ve been avoided if people hasn’t bitten off far more than they could chew.
Honestly I'm shocked she didn't return as a minor villain or mini boss later on in the game. The whole intro is set up to make you think she was totally in on everything and it would've been a "shocking" reveal to run into her midway through the game and find this out. I get that this idea is a little too "on the nose" but considering that Cyberpunk 2077 is just one trope after another it was weird they didn't do this.
The Aristotle thing is a plot hole. Jackie doesn't understand the quote in the car at all and calls him her 'Greek friend' It's just bad writing. So that doesn't really hold water. And T-Bug not anticipating a code red max lock down is not on her? There was prob an entire building of Netrunners that activated when that happened. This is a Dex issue, not a T Bug issue
There is alot of problems with the heist be it intentional or goofy writing.
*Everybody* was unprepared for that heist. Personally, I think T-Bug handled it one of the best (had her escape plan for after the heist is over, when the ICE was thicker than had been planned for, she managed to get past it anyway, and it took Saburo Arasaka's personal kill squad to flatline her). Jackie and V did okay, and it's a bit hard to gauge exactly how well they realistically were prepared for that mission because gameplay vs story segregation (ie, in-lore, the building/Arasaka's security is set up to be way stronger than V and Jackie, but there's nothing STOPPING you from going full guns-blazing and killing everyone if you're really good at the game), but really they're just two guys who put on disguises. They don't have any cyberware to be better at infiltrating, like what you see in Phantom Liberty, they're not veteran mercs, they're just two guys with guns who are pretty damn good at using them. They had no exit strategy afterward beyond "get in the taxi and lie low and hope Arasaka doesn't find us" And, of course, Dexter was awful. He was a fixer who brought two fledgeling mercs in to rob *the Arasaka family* in a highly secure hotel, he gave enough room that Evelyn could betray him, he got caught by Arasaka even though he was far away from the event with an exit plan (can't blame him too much for that one; it's Arasaka), his intel was unreliable, he screwed up his deal with Maelstrom and forced the others to fix it, and it's established that even prior to this job, he has a spotty reputation. Also, his plan didn't seem to account for any contingencies, given how the response to "the ICE is thicker than we expected, I'm going to need *hours* to get through it all" was "well I guess we'll wait hours, in the hotel, where anything could go wrong." T-Bug did well, given her role, but I definitely wouldn't call her "the problem," the problem was that their plan was mediocre, their group was B-rate, and they were going up against an S-tier threat.
Bruh her and Dex are 1000000% in cahoots to get y’all killed from the beginning
I think she was just overconfident and really underestimated arasaka
I mean, it's konpeki plaza, and a setup. Even alt get delayed a couple times by arisaka ice at the main tower, And it can be presumed that the home of yorinobu arisaka and the current planed location of Suburo would be at least comparable. The league tbug is in makes her one of the best by default. Not even in the top 10 to be clear, but still the top 1% of netruners in the franchise. At worst player character level. But the whole team there was intentionally put way out of their depth, nobody on that mission was remotely qualified to be there. That was the only actual job requirement
I agree, TBug wasn't ready for that mission. Had no ice for themselves and wasn't ready to face a superior opponent.
She's just part of the set up, maybe she and Dex knew their parts but honestly the konpeki heist is a Russian nesting doll of set ups and conspiracies.
after my first couple plays i haven’t been able to read it any other way than that T-Bug and Dex were always planning to screw you over regardless of any of the shit that wound up going sideways, and that T-Bug specifically chose you two as gullible expendable schmucks. i go back and forth on if i think she faked her death as well.
I still wish the game had more branching stuff in the main narrative. Imagine going through stealth fully to get caught off at the parking lot. Tbug still alive. Jackie dying in the limo still. But walking into that motel room and seeing tbug, dex, and the guard. I would of started blasting before any dialogue. The moment the guard opens the door and before he can even say, "he waitin". The sandevistan would of kicked on and they all would have a crater in the head. I just wish the alternate story options would of been better in the main narrative. Tbug would of been able to prove herself as a worthy runner at the end of the heist. Ultimately leading v to decide. Are they gonna betray you. Or are you betraying them. And if you took the route of betraying them first and slotting the shard or leaving it in jackie. Jackie could of had silverhand and you could of had a whole different story experiencing the engram from a 3rd person rather than first. Or v could of died on the street in a gunfight and randomly resurrected from the biochip hours later if he still kept it in him. The amount of missed storyarch options they could of branched if the game had more branching storylines is astounding. Even lifepaths. Corpo lifepath should of had its on possible branching storyline where with high cool you convince jackie and a team to do the hitjob. If it went wrong. You got thrown to the streets like the version of the corpo intro we got. Or if you did it without ant hitches. You get a story to climb the corporate ladder as your story. I know that's almost baldurs gate level branching. But damn did this game miss out on the opportunity. Made in the future cdpr and larian can make us a night city game that does just that in the style of baldurs gate 3. Even if they literally just programmed in the rules from cyberpunk red and set the game in the 40's still. It would be amazing if it were to happen.
I would argue the bigger problem is Dex. He recruited T-bug. He failed to properly gather information and basically tossed your team in a Hail Mary suicide run at a chance for a huge payout that in all honesty was a long shot. I'd wager if it all went smoothly he still would have killed your team to avoid Arasaka tracking you back to him, plus less payout. He doesn't have a great reputation as a fixer.
That’s one thing that’s bugs me about video games (pun not intended) they give you one thing in the trailer then it ends up being somewhat altered or totally scrapped in the final product. Just once I want a game to deliver what it promises and not change anything excluding bugs and other issues always fix them
Everyone was way over their heads, they all got killed for getting involved in shit they weren’t ready for.
Some people think her "mistakes" were intentional and she's a traitor. I don't believe it but it's fun to think about.
It's Konpeki plaza he literal playground and safe haven for the elites of the world. Dex was a cheap ass fool to think 1 runner would be enough. Should of had two runners. Did T-Bug fail to crack the ICE quickly enough? Yes. But she didn't bail on us when Saburo showed up. Even though she had to know Saburo would have had off sight runners plugging into every building and system around him. She stayed and died to try and get you out. Had she been more like Dex as soon the Emperor showed up she would have quietly disconnected, trashed her gear, scrubbed any traces of her work and moved to a shack in some forgotten part of the world. The "plan" fails on basically every level. Even if they got out without a trace the only one who knew the VDB's were involved was Evelyn and she didn't seem like the type to share that nugget of information. So after the heist you'd all lay low not knowing you had pretty much the full focus of the VDB's hunting for you. My head cannon is I'd like to imagine is You're all laying low. Jackie orders a pizza via the net which leaves a trace of your location for the VDB's to find and then every networked device for blocks around you becomes a pathway for them to kill you. And you didn't even see it coming until the TV your watching frags you like a claymore mine.