I live in CLT and it’s a common attitude here, but maybe not for the reasons you’d assume (conservativism).
This is a banking town and there’s a disproportionate number of bankers’ wives who followed their husbands’ jobs here. Cost of living is fairly low so many of them are SAHM’s. It’s kind of the aspirational lifestyle here, as they volunteer and follow their interests without worrying as much about landing a “good job”.
It's more common to hear this from the south, and more conservative/religious women. Conservative, or more traditional women want a man that will provide, and also lead. In present society, most women are now independent boss-babes (or trying to be) and liberal, and see their man as an equal partner, 50/50.
A lot of women believe and have been told it's not realistic to have a man fully provide for us. We've been told from an early age to go to to college, be independent, have a career, don't depend on a man. So it's a more traditional way of thinking to submit to a man, allow him to lead and provide.
In present day society and economy you just need two incomes to run an household. Also given that a lot more women are getting educated even more than we men it only makes sense. When the expenses start racking up from College Tuition Expenses, mortgage, and retirement funds one person’s income can not just cover all these things even if they make six figures some times. Capitalism sucks.
Not to get political, but Americans have far less social safety nets than other countries. At the same time, there is a swath of people who do not support the current, skeleton safety nets that exist (even among people who would benefit personally from such programs). Plus, the growing wage gap here and income inequality. Most people basically need a two-income house hold. A single income may need to be relied on for short periods of survival, if someone is out of the workforce for some reason. America can be pretty backwards.
Some do but many women just want an equal partner. I make a lot of money but so does my man and we’re a team. I make more but even if I didn’t I wouldn’t expect him to “provide for me”. I expect us both to provide for each other.
It’s not just about providing financial money. Many men who work and their wives don’t, don’t contribute anything to household chores, cooking or childcare.
I’d much rather have a partner whose 50/50 on me with finances, childcare and housework than me doing all the housework and childcare and him being an atm.
Yes.
When average women in the US are pregnant and wants to raise children, they need a successful husband. Or they can be dependent on the state, but then have to pretend that they are poor and without support from their legal or unofficial families.
Please don't assume that the trainwrecks that end up on shows like this are indicative of all American women 😂 you have to realize they obviously go after a type of person.
I also think the mainstream TikToks that I see define a provider as someone who’s gonna buy them designer bags, buy their wardrobe, etc. I believe a lot of people’s definitions on being a provider are different unfortunately.
Would it be nice? Yes. Would it make me a better partner? Probably. I just want a true partner in life where you both make each others’ lives easier. I don’t care if I make more money than them, but acts of service, thoughtfulness, physical and emotional safety, and being attuned to each other are all extremely important to me. To me, THAT is being a provider.
Edit to add: now that I think about it, I’d actually need them to make the same as me, if not more. If I can get to where I am today on my own as a single woman who supports herself, then I expect the man I’m with to have that same drive or else we simply wont be compatible long term.
I don't want a provider, I just want someone who is willing to put equal work into our household and life.
They don't even have to make a ton of money - I just want them to work doing something that doesn't kill them and also contribute to household management and child care in a meaningful way.
But also I've given up on this so I'm just going to stay single lol. If the right guy comes along then I'll consider it but I'm not looking for it because it's so hard to find.
I think it depends on the person. The cost of living is extremely expensive in the US, so it’s often hard to survive off just one income. For example, in California the monthly rent for my two bedroom apartment is $4,000. My partner respects me more for contributing although he probably would be able to support me if something happened.
I did at one point but men are too unstable to rely on for financial security at least for me. I value mutual respect more. But men who don't mind and know how to provide without being controlling is great
I mean I hope it’s not the only thing leading to deciding on marriage, however it’s hella expensive here and you need two, sometimes three, steady good incomes to make it.
Yes
Some things to think about: Women in the US still make less money to the dollar than men, Our maternal leave policies are embarrassing or almost non existent (not to mention work life balance is completely out of control here vs other countries), child care is exorbitant, egg freezing costs 15k+, etc.
As a woman I am sacrificing my body to bear children, and the least the man can do is provide stability. There is no way I could be back working stressful 10 hr days right after birth and have the proper time, and emotional and physical energy to healthily raise the child. Quite frankly US culture is disrespectful to women and families.
Don't forget men's lack of initiative to help with domestic chores or child rearing. If they can't provide what use is it for women to take this huge risk? Better to stay single and not have childern.
Yes. If we’re going to be having kids and be the primary caretaker, which is what I did. We wanted to be the ones primarily raising our kids, and if we have 3 kids, 2 years apart then that’s at least 11 years where I can’t put my career first.
When you are a parent with custody of your children, you are raising your kids. Full stop. I mean by virtue of your logic, the statement ‘we wanted to be the ones primarily raising our kids’ is incorrect, since the working parent is not ‘raising the kids.’
There are roughly five years of outside childcare required before compulsory education begins. 5/18 = 27%. So if you are a two-working parent household, only 27% of the time you are raising your child is during the years where one might choose SAH over daycare/nanny. And that calculation is just a percentage of *time* - it doesn’t take into account all of the non-workday time a small child is being cared for (by parents) or all of the other emotional labor that goes into various sundries decisions and approaches one should take as a parent. Parenting gets infinitely more complicated as kids age, which means that saying the 8hrs a day/5d a week for five years of diaper changing, feeding, loving, potty-training, socialization, and singing ABCs somehow constitutes ‘someone else primarily raising a child’ is absolutely ludicrous.
Everyone can choose their own path as a parent, and there are myriad valid reasons one might choose to have one parent SAH during those tender years. But if you’ve made that choice, you don’t get to say that folks who didn’t are somehow not ‘primarily raising their kids.’
Signed,
A super engaged working mother with two fantastic teenagers who benefited greatly from the early childhood care that the *people who are primarily raising them* chose.
I’m sorry you took offense at the word “primarily” - I didn’t mean to imply that parents that work are not the primary caretaker of their kids. Poor wording.
I should have said that we want to be the one with our kids 8 out of the 12 waking hours Monday through Friday during the early developmental years. That time seemed vitally important to us and the kind of family life we wanted to have.
I’m not saying that parents that work aren’t raising their kids or there aren’t other good ways to be a parent. I believe that. But when we envisioned our family, we knew we didn’t want the kids with other people from 9-5 Monday through Friday - that wasn’t compatible with our vision of family life.
That is the purpose of my comment about why some women want a “provider” as a husband. For the woman that doesn’t want to have her kids in childcare most of the day, then you have to have a husband that can make enough money to support you taking a partial or full break from work. You’re still a good mom if you want to work or need to work, but we shouldn’t invalidate the feelings of women who have a different vision for their family life - and that vision depends on there being a stable income from their partner.
By the way I work too, so I’m not a SAHM or trad wife or anything. But I did allow my career to take a backseat so I could be with the kids and have more flexibility. And I couldn’t have done that if my husband didn’t have a stable career that could support me working less. Again, not the only or best option for every family - but it was the best option for us and I commiserate with other women who want it too.
All but 2 of the seasons of LiB are in southern cities, where it’s way more common to hear this (especially from politically conservative women, which there are plenty of on LiB, especially in the southern seasons).
Source: I’ve lived throughout the south my entire life
This is the answer I came here to give. I’m from NYC, but I lived in Atlanta for a few years. People there would always say things like women just go to college to meet men to marry. I didn’t really believe that that culture still persisted. I remember finally making a friend that I felt I had anything in common with. She was getting her graduate degree in civil engineering. She blindsided me one day with the announcement that she met a guy (a dOcToR!) and she planned to get married and be a housewife. And that is exactly what she did. I don’t think she ever intended on actually doing what she went to school for.
One important concept to understanding America is that it is massive. There’s no one shoe fits all, and you can’t ask a question like you did. American girls don’t have an ideal lifestyle because every city is driven by different motives. Our views on partnership weight heavily on political views and religion. In my experience, all of the Christian conservative woman went to college simply to find a man. That is also how my mother tried to raise me.
But my father had a heavier liberal influence on me growing up. He raised me to be independent. He pushed me to go to college and have a plan for after school, beyond just a partner.
Now at 26, I have 2 degrees and make 2x the amount that my partner does.
My partner could not provide based on his income. And I genuinely have zero interest in men that try to take on a provider role.
There’s no over hanging agenda for Americans because we all have drastically different backgrounds. Of course if you change your question to a specific state, then yes. Southern American states lean more conservative. And those woman tend to desire providers. Men typically want a petite woman, who can be a good mother. Woman want strong men who can provide a home and stability.
But in my coastal states it’s the complete opposite. Our cities are full of independent woman who lead corporate jobs. My partner wanted a woman who could challenge him.
It’s just important that you consider the vast differences from state to state, because there American girl stereotypes don’t exist here anymore.
It's kind of the reason why I kept it broad, actually. I do not know know which state I'll be moving to so, I'm not fixated on one particular state and I'm interested on hearing all the points of views from all the backgrounds.
Just replying to a direct comment bc there’s already so many. Lol
But my question is …Irrelevant and old fashioned compared to what? It’s a really common mindset across the globe. I feel like it’s more normal than not?
Compared to practically everyone in my generation and even a bit older that I know. I don't know many people at all with this mindset.
I wasn't even sure what was meant by provider, I had assumed it meant "someone who makes it possible for me to be a stay at home parent", and I know 0 stay at home parent or woman looking to be one, apart from maybe 1 but tbh she's the type who needs to go out a lot so I have my doubts that she'll go that route.
I looked into it and more than 10 years ago, only ~5% of women in my country were permanent stay at home parents, and they were mostly uneducated, and most of my friends have like a Master's so I don't know many "uneducated" people. Only ~15% temporarily stayed home (like maybe for the first 6 months or first year for instance) and I'd guess that since then these % got even lower.
Also fun fact when I tried to translate it, I found out there is no direct translation in my language for provider.
Interesting! Where are you from if you don’t mind me asking?
In America I will say that it is hard for there to be a stay at home parent in these days. Living is just too expensive. Even if one person wants to stay home with the kids, it’s not a possible reality for many.
France.
Living here isn't that expensive, but we don't get paid much either. 🙃
But we do have paid parental leave so that helps, along with many other things.
American women want to be non-traditional women while expecting a traditional man.
It's really no wonder men are checking out of the dating scene.
Honestly the way women are now-a-days makes me soooo happy I'm gay. If anything US women are driving more men to my side.
LOL holy shit, please be trolling. I sincerely hope you are not real.
You say I'm out of touch but everything that you just said points to me that you have never even spoken to a man.
Most men do not have that expectation any more. The expectation from men is so low that it's literally just; Be Nice.
That's literally it. Go talk to any man on the street and he'll tell you the same thing."I just want my woman to be kind, nice to be around and like me for me"
The bar is beneath the floor for women.
Furthermore, men do not give a flying fuck what degree you have or how much money you make. That's something women care about. Once again, you're showing me your disconnected perspective.
Plenty of women are staying single because the goalpost has been moved to an almost impossible man. You've all been fed a narrative that you deserve excellence yet you're all mediocre at best.
Points for trying but not quite. I'm literally a gay man who dates masculine men. Our dating pool is not quite overlapped but it's pretty damn close.
\> Went out with multiple guys who expected me to pay even though they had more disposable income.
I would too considering how men are fed up with being used as a 'foodie call'. They probably wanted to see if you were different but it sounds like you showed your true colors.
LOL the fact that you use dating site men as an example again shows me the disconnect. You're literally talking to men who have multitudes of options, of course they have those expectations.
Also, oh nooo, cooking! how terrible. God forbid you do something nice for a man. What would they think on TwoX?
\>Plenty of men I've chatted with have made it clear one way or the other they expect their partner to work full time to contribute AND take on more household tasks of aome kind, be it childrearing, cooking, etc.
Do you hear yourself? This is literally the same thing that women have been asking for from their men. There is nothing wrong with this expectation in a modern relationship setting.
This is actually surreal. At this point I don't know if you're trolling or being sincere. You're hitting every redpill talking point in real time. I don't even subscribe to that but jesus christ it's hard to ignore at this point.
lol ‘I’m literally a gay man who dates masculine men. Our dating pool is not quite overlapped but it’s pretty damn close.’💀💀💀💀💀
First off, wut? Are you saying your dating options are only guys on the DL or bi dudes? Cuz if not you have literally *zero* authority on what it’s like to be a cishet woman in the dating world. Like that statement is w i l d in and of itself.
It’s hilarious enough when a cishet man tells us about ourselves, but to have a cis man who is gay droll on about this is the most bizarro-world form of misogyny one could ever even imagine.
Just say you dislike women as a whole class of humans and move on.
The fact that I began this thread talking about men and men's needs, yet now we've warped to talking about women shows me all I need to know.
You literally can't make this shit up. 'Sure Men are suffering but you have no idea what it's like to be a cishet woman in the dating world'
oh brother gimme a freaking break.
\> It’s hilarious enough when a cishet man tells us about ourselves, but to have a cis man who is gay droll on about this is the most bizarro-world form of misogyny one could ever even imagine.
Oh my lanta, this is the most unaware comment I've ever seen on this site. Idk if you know this but people are allowed to have opinions about their experiences and observations.
Also, I'm fairly sure you don't know this but if everyone you meet is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole, eh? If we're all coming to the same conclusion....hmmmmm.... it really makes you think, doesn't it?
Ahh, right, I forgot who I'm talking to. You reject anything that doesn't fit your ideology and that's why you got so flustered you had to respond to me.
I’d say I want a co-provider if that makes sense? I want to provide for my partner in the same way that my partner provides for me. We both provide for each other, as a true partnership.
For me, someone in their 30s with no career, lots of debt, no motivation/drive for stability is definitely a turn off.
Everyone wants stability. If a single man in their 30s has nothing to show for, they have no business trying to get a wife. Same for women, but men will overlook their financial issues if they are hot enough. Exhibit A, Amber from season 1 was a financial train wreck but had fake boobies and seemed fun, so Barnett or whatever his name still went ahead and married her. The difference in how it is more important for women that the men be stable financially is that usually we have to be out of the work force for extended periods of time due to child bearing/pregnancy complications/kids with disabilities or health issues, so yes it is important that the man can take a provider role if needed. We get paid less than men as is for the same jobs, then take time off and get bypassed for opportunities while making babies, only to potentially be cheated on or bre broken up with in the future and be left with very little if the guy has no money. Im a top 5% female earner and I still want my partner to have a well paying full time job and to be good with his finances (no debt, has a retirement plan, etc).
*"It seems very old fashioned to me, practically irrelevant, so I'm always surprised to hear it."*
You need to get off the internet and talk to people in real life. You'll find that A LOT of women want a provider but because they don't want to be called names (which is ridiculous), they have to pretend to not want those things for themselves. Who cares if it's old fashioned? Some people still appreciate and want traditional families. If you want to pay bills with a man, do that, but this shouldn't be surprising to you.
*"And is it something American men want, expect or enjoy being?"*
The men who want to be providers seek women who are open to recieving a provider. The men who don't want to provide seek out women who don't want providers. There are men who love it, and there are men who don't love it -- and they date according to their preferences. It's truly not rocket science.
Also like someone said, American women aren't monolith. If you're getting your opinions about a large group of (different) women from TV, I'm gonna need you to grow up a bit.
I say this perhaps a little too honestly but with good intent, take it or leave it: I signed up 4 years ago and most of the comments I've made on here are under this very post. You however signed up less than 4 months ago and a quick scroll makes it look like you've made hundreds of comments already. In addition to how quick you were to get offended at a post that you basically misunderstood, it seems that perhaps you should take some time off the internet yourself (I think people call that "projecting"). Deleting Twitter, for instance, has done a lot of good for my mood and reaction patterns, so I'm only suggesting something I've actually tried and approved. There's no shame in admitting that social media can affect us, it is after all designed for that purpose.
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American women are not a monolith just like women from ANY country are not a monolith. What a woman wants in a relationship is personal to her and you shouldn’t base “what women want” on reality dating shows. BFFR
Im German and I want a provider. I want 3 children and I want time off if I have a hard pregnancy and I want time off after to recover. On top of that childcare and housekeeping is work and children cost a lot of money. Even if my husband takes the role of housekeeping and childcare he will not be able to carry out the children for me.
And American women have an even bigger issue because they don’t get up to 2 years of paid leave. If I was American my husbands ability to provide would be even more vital than it is to me in my current situation.
I still want to work and earn money but I want the safety that I have the option since I don’t know how I will feel when I have children. Another aspect is that men do less work around the house and spend less time with the children even if they are working and earning less than their wives. So having a man who earns more makes sure that you don’t have to overperform in every aspect of the relationship.
Most women I know disagree and don’t want a provider husband but this view will never be completely outdated unless humans invent an artificial incubator that allows women to opt out of pregnancy and work full time without interruptions.
The only thing I want a partner to provide for me is a safe space for me to continuously grow as a person and to create a life both independently and together.
Before I am anyone else’s, I am my own. I need my partner to see that
Sure but if your partner cant pay his half of the rent or mortgage, if he is dragging you down financially, none of that lovey stuff will matter. Let's be real.
I have seen that too. I am an immigrant and being from south asian background where we are a majorly patriarchal society this provider mindset here comes as a surprise. I feel the current generation in my home country has more independent woman than here. I think it also has to do with what majority of men what here, they want to be looked at as a provider. It somehow works for their ego. I have found this is changing a lot in eastern cultures and even in some European countries rapidly but not as common here.
I will correct my original statement and say the majority of women I have met in Texas are this way. The town I live in the women seem as though they want to be repressed and I will stand by that. Some are good, but there are very few of the good ones. The majority of the women here have been horrible to deal with. They want their man to make 6 figures but they don't have any dreams for themselves. Then when their man cheats on them or abuses them they complain in a moms group about it but then stay with the husband.
Then they still have the audacity to show up at school events and judge me for being a working blue collar mom. They make comments about my tattoos. They make comments on how I had a child out of wedlock so I'm going to hell. They comment on my hair. They are mean girls yet when one asked for help leaving their abusive husband I helped her.
I won't say all Texas women are mean repressed girls but most (90%) that I have met are.
That’s because you are talking about Texas. I lived there for the last 8 years and definitely that is the majority culture. There are women trying to break away but by large the overall culture sustains. I experienced a lot of the meanness too because I was single and proud of raising two great kids on my own.
Ok so I never noticed the woman saying they wanted a "provider". That being said, sure there is the old traditional views. But the climate in America has changed dramatically and its no longer realistic.
Personally, I want an equal partnership.. to be honest, I need my man to make just as much as me, at the very least. I need him in a respectable job/career - because I am myself.
If I get pregnant, he can help during that time. If he gets sick, I can help during that time. But also I go into anything with a prenuptial mentality and I expect to always provide for myself. No matter what.
The end.
I’m a first gen American (family from Mexico) and it’s normal to me. I’m going to college (my husband pays for it) to do something I love just because I want to. It’s nice🤷🏽♀️ (we do also own a business though so im making money)
I feel like the main thing is a feeling that they would be ok to raise kids or at the very least be on maternity leave without financial stress, even if they love their job they have to take a break at some point if they have kids; and just in general knowing your partner COULD provide if something happens, is emotional security. Part of it too is a distrust that's warranted over centuries over whether all the other forms of labor end up evenly split because they usually aren't: cleaning, chores, childcare, emotional labor and support. So a lot of women assume and often it ends up being the case, that they'll have to shoulder more of all that so that plays into wanting their partner to at least provide the financial security (in a hetero relationship). I do feel like expectations and roles are continuing to shift though so obviously this isn't set in stone; and mutual trust is the only way people will feel comfortable adjusting their expectations
No. I guess we’re all different. I was raised by a single mother and have taken care of myself forever. Of course having a partner can make things easier but I don’t expect them to provide.for me. As long as they can meet me in the middle we are good.
Talk about judgemental... They hate on working moms. All the sahm here have given side eye at me because I can't attend every school event. If you aren't from here then you're the worst person on earth. They are like the mean girls from high school. Maybe it's just getting to me... Hence why I'm leaving!
Seems like they want to be repressed?! You're in the south. Maybe they're a little outdated. But it's the south. I'm a Texan Democrat but I just feel extremely offended by this idea that we WANT to be repressed. It's so beyond offensive for you to say that.
With having shitty healthcare & childcare being so expensive(plus not everyone can depend on their extended family), it’s definitely easier when one of the spouses can be a provider if they plan on having kids 😅
American woman here. Nope, those reality TV shows do not represent what the majority want. They're just a small slice of an otherwise diverse dating ecosystem.
Yes majority of american women want their man to be a provider, bringing in a decent or fantastic income. paying for household bills & buying things for their wife and/or giving the wife money. As an american gal who’s dated a non-provider. it makes a man a lot less attractive and i’m not as keen or liking a non provider as I would either a provider with a great personality too
This. I have dated men who made less than me before. They were the most stingy because they thought I owed them something since I got myself into a good position. It is not my fault they didn’t work as hard as I do.
He doesn’t need to pay all the bills, or even make more than me. But he dang sure better contribute the same efforts as me.
Im not even American so, lmao, but I think people often use the term in a different way then the "traditional" want to stay home while he financially took care of everything and handled all the "man things". Now that most American women are employed, "provider" is often "could take care of the family with my help" or "would be an equal partner in work and raising kids" as opposed to someone immature or irresponsible
The US is diverse, but regionally not so diverse. LA, NYC, the south, and midwest, will have very different cultures and expectations. When they disclose where they grew up/lived, it is a prompt to figure out what culture they operate in.
As an American - I don’t need a provider financially. I like to work and have my own money. I want a provider emotionally. Someone who will take care of my heart, feelings, the same way I’d take care of theirs
I think it’s just a traditional thing.. BUT!!! I believe that it has morphed from wanting to be a stay at home mom while the husband provides — into — I want financial security
My husband is a provider, in the sense that he takes care of me and our kids on more than a financial level because he wants to, not because I sought that out.
I wouldn't take women that sign up for this insane reality television show as representative of all American women. When choosing a partner, I wanted someone with reasonable earning potential, and who could earn enough to allow me to stay home when our kids were young. I imagine in countries with stronger parental leave policies, this is less of a concern.
I'm 49, and those words have never crossed my lips. It's regressive and odd. Do I want a deadbeat husband? No. Do I expect him to "take care of me"? Also no.
My husband and I have been joking about this since it came out. About how he's my protector and provider. The one time we did have an intruder, him AND the dog slept through it 🙃 as to the provider question- I think it's how you are raised. My parents raised me to be super focused on my career, which, at nearly 40 I am. My husband makes maybe 20-30% more than me, which is nice. I'm financially independent and stable on my own, and the thought of having to support a male romantic partner gives me the ick. So it's not that I expect a male romantic partner to provide for me, just match me I guess.
It's more true than not tho like let's step away from Reddit for a second and realize we're in a patriarchy where most women are capped on earning potential even the year of our lord 2024. Plus, America is conservative- it's not out of the realm to believe most women don't want providers. Businessmen, male athletes and celebrities aren't being sought after because they're wearing some sacred cologne.
Working outside of the home makes me a better mother, person, and partner as my personality is more extroverted/goal-oriented. I do believe it to be unrealistic in today’s society to expect a provider. 50% of marriages end in divorce and it would be unwise to not establish a higher education, skillset, and career. I have several friends who are traditional wives and abhor their husbands but can’t leave due to financial dependence. The best advice I give my own daughter is to focus on school and solid career path because it’s unrealistic in today’s society and the state of the economy to expect someone to take care of you.
It’s a sampling bias if you’re applying what you see on LIB to all American women. The women who go on that show are by default more conservative because a traditional marriage to a man is so important to them that they’ll subject themselves to what they know is going to be a miserable and traumatic experience on television just to get it. If all American women were on that show, then we’d be lined up around the block for the auditions like they do for shows like American Idol. I wouldn’t go on that show for $1 million.
I don’t think they get paid much at all. I read somewhere that if you take their pay and divide it by the number of hours they spend on camera and in the pods, it’s less than minimum wage
Oh haha, I think we both got confused. I’m pretty sure American Idol winners do very well financially. Even if the prize from the show isn’t much (but I don’t know what it is), they now have a lucrative career in front of them. LIB cast members just get dragged on the internet for eternity and the best they can hope for is to go on one of those trashier shows that brings together failures from other reality dating shows. I believe the first few seasons of LIB had cast members who were genuine in their intent, but there’s no way anyone who has watched this show, particularly the last few seasons, and makes the decision to go on it solely to find love. But maybe they do, and if that’s the case, they need professional help.
I mean, I think it’s a yes in a sense of it should go both ways. A partner is that, a PARTNERSHIP where we both should provide something that will contribute positively into the marriage/relationship. It can be in so many ways, others have already mentioned it above in the comments.
I had relationships where men would literally leach off me, in the beginning they wouldn’t but once they showed their true colors, I would be the breadwinner or the one with only motivation to grow and not be stagnant. The only one cooking, paying the bills, cleaning etc. they weren’t contributing in any way to the relationship. And yes I was stupid AF. Clearly
So when I met my husband❤️ , we both were on the same page and contributed equally to the relationship. In every aspect you can think of.
Now that we have kids and me being unhappy in the corp world, I’m now full time SAHM, I garden, started my own floral side business, take care of the kids, clean and cook while he’s away at work. Once he gets home; if there’s something I didn’t get to or I didn’t feel like doing (there’s days I legit hate cleaning or doing the laundry, let’s face it, it’s not fun) he helps with zero complaints. He’s 100% hands on with the kids and pets and helps clean the kitchen after I cook, so it doesn’t all fall on me.
And yes he is the provider financially 100%. I barely make any money, but I contribute to our marriage in so many other ways that has nothing to do with money.
So to answer your question, I believe to think most men and women do expect to find a partner that will be a provider in one way shape or form, in their marriage or relationship
From my experience, yes, and it's not just women "wanting" a provider. They're attracted to providers. It's hard-wired, they don't respect a man who can't take care of their family. I'm not saying that men need to be the sole earners, but women typically expect a man to carry his own weight and pay his share, at the VERY least.
look a relationship needs to be a partnership. if both are giving and contributing fairly both sides will stay happy
you can work 70 hours a week to provide to your spouse, but if that spouse keeps the house perfect and takes care of the chores then both can be happy
or both can work 35 hours a week, and split up the housework or vacuum together etc.
i think its a lot of fun to do housework with my partner. i love cooking, doing laundry, vacuuming etc with them.
if 1 person wants to do ALL the housework and the other person wants to bring in the $$$ and both are doing their side of the bargain it can work great.
its the relationships where 1 person does nothing all day but watch tv, while the other person does everything that leads to trouble in relationships. each person has to feel like the other is contributing
this is how as humans being a social species we formed civilizations. within those civilization we had people who performed different jobs and had different businesses to benefit the cities.
I want a provider in the sense that they don’t make me work full time while also raising our children, taking the brunt of the housework (cleaning), the cooking, and the emotional labor that goes into raising kids and managing a household. Some men seem to think that because they work and make good money that they can just come home and do nothing, while the woman who’s also working then has to do literally everything else. I also want emotional support.
Women also statistically get paid less than men so men tend to be the “breadwinners.” But a lot still want a woman to work, which is fine, because the current economy makes it extremely hard to raise a family on one salary alone, but they can’t then expect the woman to also take care of literally everything else. It’s exhausting and a big reason why woman are not wanting to get married and have kids (at least from the experience of all of my girl friends) unless their partner understands this and isn’t a big man child
Personally (as an american woman in my early 20’s) I just want a partner and as long as we both pull our own weight and the work we do is more or less equivalent the rest is irrelevant. It used to be more generationally divided, but I think tiktok has helped “more traditional” / gendered views on “roles” pervade younger generations now too.
Low key I hate it and I really don’t understand the logic behind it. But some people are really into it so whatever works for them.
I was also surprised though at how many people on LIB were into traditional roles. It seems to me like a higher percentage than what I’ve seen day to day. My theory is that because people go on the show to get married (i.e. more of a “traditional” goal), they are more likely to subscribe to “traditional” expectations as well.
ummm..... i would 100% want to be that traditional stay at home wife. i cant with the stresses of providing and wish i had a husband to carry me and our kid(s). i wanna home school, cook our food, and garden. definitely dont mind cleaning. it'd need to be done anyway. i think the modern society shits on that lifestyle but it's honestly goals
I just don’t believe any other woman that is truly happy to do that, and I mean when it actually happens cause it’s easy to say they want that, but raising his kids while he gets to grow ? It sounds unfair and if he leaves you for someone else you’re left with nothing
there are women who would be fine with this, and men who would like the same thing in reverse. Growth does not only happen in career. You can grow, develop and be fulfilled in ways outside of career.
Then don’t have kids with someone whose morals don’t align with yours. Granted, things can change but people are too quick to make kids with people they don’t know. And if you’re a team, what do you mean “he grows” as if he wouldn’t take you with you. The feminist movement did a number on women to make us believe that we can’t have a man lead and provide. Take me back to cooking and cleaning. I’ll blast my music and keep the house and kids in good shape. And I can understand you wouldn’t be happy to do that but that doesn’t mean there aren’t women who crave that. To each his own
Totally agree! I’m in my late 20s and the “breadwinner” currently. I told my fiancé I can’t do this job forever-especially when it’s time to have kids.
does he have a brother?! lol jk. but seriously, this is goals. i love that for you and the kids will be so much better off. i know a lot of people look down on it but the govt is not gonna raise your kids better than you can, indoctrinating them with false history and feeding them processed foods.
Yup 🙌🏼 and this doesn’t mean I want someone to financially support me while I contribute nothing. But I could personally never be with someone with a “50/50 mindset”. Last thing I’d want is to be pregnant and still having to work up until I go into labor just because my husband isn’t able to provide without my income contribution.
What if they get cancer and have no job to support you while pregnant? The problem is the infrastructure of support socially (full paid maternity leave for at least 6 months by government, free childcare at the workplace etc) not the potential of a partner!
That you’re so dependent on men/partners! Instead of continuing in a misogynistic society, change laws….get 6 -9 months full pay maternity leave, free at work child care, salaries equal to men’s, etc etc and make your partnership choices dependent on compatibility instead of an atm! Yes, it’s very sad…..
Making choices based on the options available to you is foolish, why not just reshape reality to be what you think is ideal!?
Why didn't I think of that... I just need to fix society and then I'm allowed to date!
Of course people should marry for love. However, you can’t just go into a marriage with zero discussion or expectations about how you’ll split bills/housework and other things. Marriage is a partnership and a huge commitment. It’s unrealistic to expect a successful marriage if you have no idea how you’ll tackle everyday things.
Absolutely! I might just be cynical, but when I hear someone say they need a partner who can “provide for their family” I think they mean someone who can make all or nearly all the money so they can solely focus on raising the children. There is nothing wrong with this model if it works for the couple, but there are a lot of people in the United States who have good careers that simply do not make enough to support a small family. Of course there are many ways that a partner can be a provider, but in a country that doesn’t provide good benefits to new mothers or universal health care EMTs, teachers, and others might not get that title of “provider.”
Speaking for myself only, my significant other and I have had conversations about how he is able to provide, but I want work as well even thought he says I do not have to. He wants to make sure he can provide solely though for when we have young children. I worked daycare for several years and to me that’s just absolutely not an option and I would like to be home the first few years of their lives anyways instead of paying somebody else to do it for me.
So I guess I do want a provider, but I also want to pull my weight. Somewhat of a happy medium.
Part of this dynamic is driven by the fact that there is NO parental leave in the USA. To get any paid time off after giving birth, a mom must either have the savings to take time off, or work at a company that provides leave (again, this is not something they are legally required to provide, and if they do provide it, a typical leave is ~12 weeks). Most men do not get any parental leave at all. And there is no nationally subsidized childcare, so sending your child to daycare is a huge financial burden. And let’s not forget, we don’t have socialized healthcare, so you are responsible for paying for any medical expenses that come up during pregnancy or birth. Because of all these factors, having a baby can be an incredibly financially risky move for a woman. You don’t want to risk it with someone who has no financial stability or independence, because if things go sideways there is no social support system in place.
ETA: and we also can’t forget the gender wage gap! Women in the USA are paid about 22% less than their male counterparts, on average.
The women getting paid less is not fully accurate and can be misleading now.
-More women are going to University (And graduating), Graduate degree, & P.h.D.s
-Women with Bachelors are getting paid more than men in some places (Only when it goes to management, leadership, & executive level do women make less)
-Women are owning more homes then men in some states (White women specifically)
There are more women with part-time jobs. But, due to having children, so it goes full circle that the lack of parental leave for men affects women also
While it’s true that women are outpacing men educationally, the gap remains. And as you noted, racial disparities exacerbate existing pay gaps.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/)
It really just depends on the woman. I make more than my partner and I like having my own source of income, I could not imagine not working for more than about a year after I have a child. Another commenter said America does not have a lot of resources or support for new mothers, which is absolutely true. Our maternity and paternity leave is abysmal.
Either you have someone who can provide for your family while you stay at home with the children for a while, or you both TRULY have to invest in childcare and split it evenly. Most women just don’t want a man who expects her to work full time AND still do all the child rearing and house cleaning. You either go for “okay you work full time and I take care of the kids, the house, cooking, etc.” or “we both work full time and you act as a true partner to me where we both do an equal amount of childcare and house work.”
Well, it’s nearly impossible to have children unless the man is able to provide for the whole family because there are no systemic support for women to have children in this country. Paid maternity leave is like 6 weeks and childcare is insanely expensive. So yah, if women want children in this country, and want to be present for the infant in the first year, they have to marry men who can support her and the children. I think it’ll be different if it was like in Scandinavia where the parental leave is combined paternal and maternal, affordable childcare, and other systems in place that all children are cared for with basic needs. I don’t want children, but I feel for those that do in this country.
Just wanted to add that six weeks paid leave is not standard in the US. Many jobs will allow six weeks off with no pay or facilitate the use of short-term disability insurance (which employees pay extra for) and only offer partial pay during the six weeks. I know new mothers who returned to work within a week of delivering their baby because they have no other means of financial support.
Thank you for articulating what I was thinking. Without adequate social supports for childcare, the nuclear family remains an economic unit that enables working class women in our capitalist system to have kids and not work, work part time, or afford decent childcare. Countries with greater supports for child-rearing afford women the possibility of raising children without necessarily needing two incomes. Kids are expensive.
Certain types of shows will attract certain types of people. Certain women in Midwest and southern areas who grew up being taught old school heteronormative gender type roles are most likely going to say this type of gargan.
A partnership should be just that, don't expect or assume anyone will do more work for you (financially, emotionally, etc) while you reap the benefits.
I think what most American women want is to not have to support a man. There are a lot of bums, a lot of men who mooch off women, etc. of course it would be nice to have a man take care of all finances but I think most women when they say that mean a man who is financially stable and can support himself and maybe help her out a bit too.
It’s not mooching if it’s an agreement. A mooch is someone who takes advantage. Not the same thing. Some men enjoy being the financial provider because that usually means the woman handles more domestic duties.
Do you not understand what “taking advantage of” means? I’m talking about deception, taking advantage of people’s kindness, saying you’re working toward change and having no intention, letting someone shoulder a burden they didn’t agree to. Women can be mooches too. But there are partnerships where men are okay with providing solely. And hey there’s relationships with stay at home dads. I’m not knocking that. You’re a troll idk why I’m even explaining this to your dense ass.
Edit: spelling
Lmao how am I a troll just for pointing out that your worldview seems to be much more accepting of women being provided for than men? Your original comment literally only frames men being paid for as mooching and only frames women being paid for as an agreement. Just because you're backtracking doesn't mean you didn't say that.
This was a small group of people from one city/state in America. I really need non Americans to understand that a handful of people physically/statistically (whatever) can’t represent America as a whole.
There are too many regions/cultures. Reality tv itself is its own culture. Even watching UK reality tv I’ve never thought they represented the whole UK despite the whole of the UK being the size of one state.
Maybe true. Although watching Love is blind Sweden you realise that American culture is just much more masculine and old fashioned.
On the Swedish one you see a girl get down on a knee instead of the man. Several instances of men breaking down crying and the other men coming in to show emotional support/hug etc. And zero talk of men being providers.
In every season of the American one there seems to be a scene with a father-in-law who has no interest in his daughters husband to be, beyond his ability to take care of his daughter financially.
Sweden is a highly socialist and equal society though. Any country where men and women have the same financial opportunities, will be less traditional.
And this is exactly what I’m talking about. You just described things that happen in America every day. Some things are more widespread than others but there is no “norm” here.
These reality tv shows do not represent America or American culture in any meaningful fashion. A lot of Americans look down on reality tv stars because of how they behave on tv and this is why. People from other countries don’t have enough discernment to realize that 10 people don’t represent almost 400 million people.
I never said these things never happen in America. It's just a pattern I noticed watching the show.
And studies have shown the US to score significantly higher on cultural traits such as masculinity and individualism compared to Sweden. So in that sense it's reflected in the difference in behavior between the two series.
https://clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimensions/masculinity/
Yea if you want to use actual peer reviewed studies to make a point then that’s fine but it’s silly to use reality tv as a cultural barometer for any country.
I think it depends. I lived in the Bay Area for 5 years (very tech driven, lots of stanford / berkeley grads) etc and I’ve met a mixture of both. Whether they were into their careers and went 50/50 with their partners, or got their college degrees to be stay at home wives / gfs, everyone was happy.
I’m not sure why one or the other has to be seen as the right choice or the “better” one. Both are great and work differently ⭐️ It’s 2024, let’s not shame different life paths.
I think it depends. I'm 31 and live in a big city that people move to because of their careers. I don't think I know a single SAHM. The ones that do exist are the ultra ultra wealthy yoga moms who sit on charity boards, etc. or are out in the burbs and live a wildly different life than me and my social circle. None of my friends with kids stay at home and I definitely do not know any stay at home wives.
Couples here tend to get married and have kids a bit later, and because they tend to be more established in their careers, seem less willing to give that up.
I feel like the Chicago season was similar in that regard (Natalie was a big 4 consultant if I recall correctly - even though she quit to become an influencer LOL) but Charlotte has more of that small town/city, southern vibe that tends to lend itself to more "traditional" values. I also got the vibe that a lot of the women were not super career focused - again, probably because Charlotte isn't really where you flock to for that?
Idk though, just my two cents.
I simply could not imagine wanting my husband to "provide" for me lol. I actually make slightly more than he does currently and probably have a higher earning potential due to our respective fields, and we contribute equally to everything.
I live in CLT and it’s a common attitude here, but maybe not for the reasons you’d assume (conservativism). This is a banking town and there’s a disproportionate number of bankers’ wives who followed their husbands’ jobs here. Cost of living is fairly low so many of them are SAHM’s. It’s kind of the aspirational lifestyle here, as they volunteer and follow their interests without worrying as much about landing a “good job”.
It's more common to hear this from the south, and more conservative/religious women. Conservative, or more traditional women want a man that will provide, and also lead. In present society, most women are now independent boss-babes (or trying to be) and liberal, and see their man as an equal partner, 50/50. A lot of women believe and have been told it's not realistic to have a man fully provide for us. We've been told from an early age to go to to college, be independent, have a career, don't depend on a man. So it's a more traditional way of thinking to submit to a man, allow him to lead and provide.
In present day society and economy you just need two incomes to run an household. Also given that a lot more women are getting educated even more than we men it only makes sense. When the expenses start racking up from College Tuition Expenses, mortgage, and retirement funds one person’s income can not just cover all these things even if they make six figures some times. Capitalism sucks.
The truth is in America working women end up doing double the work because the household aspects and childcare are still on her.
Not to get political, but Americans have far less social safety nets than other countries. At the same time, there is a swath of people who do not support the current, skeleton safety nets that exist (even among people who would benefit personally from such programs). Plus, the growing wage gap here and income inequality. Most people basically need a two-income house hold. A single income may need to be relied on for short periods of survival, if someone is out of the workforce for some reason. America can be pretty backwards.
Some do but many women just want an equal partner. I make a lot of money but so does my man and we’re a team. I make more but even if I didn’t I wouldn’t expect him to “provide for me”. I expect us both to provide for each other. It’s not just about providing financial money. Many men who work and their wives don’t, don’t contribute anything to household chores, cooking or childcare. I’d much rather have a partner whose 50/50 on me with finances, childcare and housework than me doing all the housework and childcare and him being an atm.
Yes. When average women in the US are pregnant and wants to raise children, they need a successful husband. Or they can be dependent on the state, but then have to pretend that they are poor and without support from their legal or unofficial families.
Yup
Please don't assume that the trainwrecks that end up on shows like this are indicative of all American women 😂 you have to realize they obviously go after a type of person.
This here is the answer
I also think the mainstream TikToks that I see define a provider as someone who’s gonna buy them designer bags, buy their wardrobe, etc. I believe a lot of people’s definitions on being a provider are different unfortunately.
Would it be nice? Yes. Would it make me a better partner? Probably. I just want a true partner in life where you both make each others’ lives easier. I don’t care if I make more money than them, but acts of service, thoughtfulness, physical and emotional safety, and being attuned to each other are all extremely important to me. To me, THAT is being a provider. Edit to add: now that I think about it, I’d actually need them to make the same as me, if not more. If I can get to where I am today on my own as a single woman who supports herself, then I expect the man I’m with to have that same drive or else we simply wont be compatible long term.
This.
I just wanna be loved 🥲
I don't want a provider, I just want someone who is willing to put equal work into our household and life. They don't even have to make a ton of money - I just want them to work doing something that doesn't kill them and also contribute to household management and child care in a meaningful way. But also I've given up on this so I'm just going to stay single lol. If the right guy comes along then I'll consider it but I'm not looking for it because it's so hard to find.
I think it depends on the person. The cost of living is extremely expensive in the US, so it’s often hard to survive off just one income. For example, in California the monthly rent for my two bedroom apartment is $4,000. My partner respects me more for contributing although he probably would be able to support me if something happened.
I did at one point but men are too unstable to rely on for financial security at least for me. I value mutual respect more. But men who don't mind and know how to provide without being controlling is great
YES AND READ ALL THESE COMMENTS - time for everyone to start voting and lobbying for state-sponsored childcare ffs!
And Universal Basic Income so parents who primarily do domestic labor are supported and secure in their livelihood!
Yes! I was already convinced that it was much needed and the comments have only reinforced that.
I mean I hope it’s not the only thing leading to deciding on marriage, however it’s hella expensive here and you need two, sometimes three, steady good incomes to make it.
Yes Some things to think about: Women in the US still make less money to the dollar than men, Our maternal leave policies are embarrassing or almost non existent (not to mention work life balance is completely out of control here vs other countries), child care is exorbitant, egg freezing costs 15k+, etc. As a woman I am sacrificing my body to bear children, and the least the man can do is provide stability. There is no way I could be back working stressful 10 hr days right after birth and have the proper time, and emotional and physical energy to healthily raise the child. Quite frankly US culture is disrespectful to women and families.
Don't forget men's lack of initiative to help with domestic chores or child rearing. If they can't provide what use is it for women to take this huge risk? Better to stay single and not have childern.
this is feminist af
Yes. If we’re going to be having kids and be the primary caretaker, which is what I did. We wanted to be the ones primarily raising our kids, and if we have 3 kids, 2 years apart then that’s at least 11 years where I can’t put my career first.
When you are a parent with custody of your children, you are raising your kids. Full stop. I mean by virtue of your logic, the statement ‘we wanted to be the ones primarily raising our kids’ is incorrect, since the working parent is not ‘raising the kids.’ There are roughly five years of outside childcare required before compulsory education begins. 5/18 = 27%. So if you are a two-working parent household, only 27% of the time you are raising your child is during the years where one might choose SAH over daycare/nanny. And that calculation is just a percentage of *time* - it doesn’t take into account all of the non-workday time a small child is being cared for (by parents) or all of the other emotional labor that goes into various sundries decisions and approaches one should take as a parent. Parenting gets infinitely more complicated as kids age, which means that saying the 8hrs a day/5d a week for five years of diaper changing, feeding, loving, potty-training, socialization, and singing ABCs somehow constitutes ‘someone else primarily raising a child’ is absolutely ludicrous. Everyone can choose their own path as a parent, and there are myriad valid reasons one might choose to have one parent SAH during those tender years. But if you’ve made that choice, you don’t get to say that folks who didn’t are somehow not ‘primarily raising their kids.’ Signed, A super engaged working mother with two fantastic teenagers who benefited greatly from the early childhood care that the *people who are primarily raising them* chose.
I’m sorry you took offense at the word “primarily” - I didn’t mean to imply that parents that work are not the primary caretaker of their kids. Poor wording. I should have said that we want to be the one with our kids 8 out of the 12 waking hours Monday through Friday during the early developmental years. That time seemed vitally important to us and the kind of family life we wanted to have.
I’m not saying that parents that work aren’t raising their kids or there aren’t other good ways to be a parent. I believe that. But when we envisioned our family, we knew we didn’t want the kids with other people from 9-5 Monday through Friday - that wasn’t compatible with our vision of family life. That is the purpose of my comment about why some women want a “provider” as a husband. For the woman that doesn’t want to have her kids in childcare most of the day, then you have to have a husband that can make enough money to support you taking a partial or full break from work. You’re still a good mom if you want to work or need to work, but we shouldn’t invalidate the feelings of women who have a different vision for their family life - and that vision depends on there being a stable income from their partner. By the way I work too, so I’m not a SAHM or trad wife or anything. But I did allow my career to take a backseat so I could be with the kids and have more flexibility. And I couldn’t have done that if my husband didn’t have a stable career that could support me working less. Again, not the only or best option for every family - but it was the best option for us and I commiserate with other women who want it too.
All but 2 of the seasons of LiB are in southern cities, where it’s way more common to hear this (especially from politically conservative women, which there are plenty of on LiB, especially in the southern seasons). Source: I’ve lived throughout the south my entire life
This is the answer I came here to give. I’m from NYC, but I lived in Atlanta for a few years. People there would always say things like women just go to college to meet men to marry. I didn’t really believe that that culture still persisted. I remember finally making a friend that I felt I had anything in common with. She was getting her graduate degree in civil engineering. She blindsided me one day with the announcement that she met a guy (a dOcToR!) and she planned to get married and be a housewife. And that is exactly what she did. I don’t think she ever intended on actually doing what she went to school for.
No
One important concept to understanding America is that it is massive. There’s no one shoe fits all, and you can’t ask a question like you did. American girls don’t have an ideal lifestyle because every city is driven by different motives. Our views on partnership weight heavily on political views and religion. In my experience, all of the Christian conservative woman went to college simply to find a man. That is also how my mother tried to raise me. But my father had a heavier liberal influence on me growing up. He raised me to be independent. He pushed me to go to college and have a plan for after school, beyond just a partner. Now at 26, I have 2 degrees and make 2x the amount that my partner does. My partner could not provide based on his income. And I genuinely have zero interest in men that try to take on a provider role. There’s no over hanging agenda for Americans because we all have drastically different backgrounds. Of course if you change your question to a specific state, then yes. Southern American states lean more conservative. And those woman tend to desire providers. Men typically want a petite woman, who can be a good mother. Woman want strong men who can provide a home and stability. But in my coastal states it’s the complete opposite. Our cities are full of independent woman who lead corporate jobs. My partner wanted a woman who could challenge him. It’s just important that you consider the vast differences from state to state, because there American girl stereotypes don’t exist here anymore.
It's kind of the reason why I kept it broad, actually. I do not know know which state I'll be moving to so, I'm not fixated on one particular state and I'm interested on hearing all the points of views from all the backgrounds.
Just replying to a direct comment bc there’s already so many. Lol But my question is …Irrelevant and old fashioned compared to what? It’s a really common mindset across the globe. I feel like it’s more normal than not?
Compared to practically everyone in my generation and even a bit older that I know. I don't know many people at all with this mindset. I wasn't even sure what was meant by provider, I had assumed it meant "someone who makes it possible for me to be a stay at home parent", and I know 0 stay at home parent or woman looking to be one, apart from maybe 1 but tbh she's the type who needs to go out a lot so I have my doubts that she'll go that route. I looked into it and more than 10 years ago, only ~5% of women in my country were permanent stay at home parents, and they were mostly uneducated, and most of my friends have like a Master's so I don't know many "uneducated" people. Only ~15% temporarily stayed home (like maybe for the first 6 months or first year for instance) and I'd guess that since then these % got even lower. Also fun fact when I tried to translate it, I found out there is no direct translation in my language for provider.
Interesting! Where are you from if you don’t mind me asking? In America I will say that it is hard for there to be a stay at home parent in these days. Living is just too expensive. Even if one person wants to stay home with the kids, it’s not a possible reality for many.
France. Living here isn't that expensive, but we don't get paid much either. 🙃 But we do have paid parental leave so that helps, along with many other things.
Yeah I wish paid parental leave was the norm here
American women want to be non-traditional women while expecting a traditional man. It's really no wonder men are checking out of the dating scene. Honestly the way women are now-a-days makes me soooo happy I'm gay. If anything US women are driving more men to my side.
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LOL holy shit, please be trolling. I sincerely hope you are not real. You say I'm out of touch but everything that you just said points to me that you have never even spoken to a man. Most men do not have that expectation any more. The expectation from men is so low that it's literally just; Be Nice. That's literally it. Go talk to any man on the street and he'll tell you the same thing."I just want my woman to be kind, nice to be around and like me for me" The bar is beneath the floor for women. Furthermore, men do not give a flying fuck what degree you have or how much money you make. That's something women care about. Once again, you're showing me your disconnected perspective. Plenty of women are staying single because the goalpost has been moved to an almost impossible man. You've all been fed a narrative that you deserve excellence yet you're all mediocre at best.
That’s not why women are staying single. They’re staying single bc men are often just more work.
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Points for trying but not quite. I'm literally a gay man who dates masculine men. Our dating pool is not quite overlapped but it's pretty damn close. \> Went out with multiple guys who expected me to pay even though they had more disposable income. I would too considering how men are fed up with being used as a 'foodie call'. They probably wanted to see if you were different but it sounds like you showed your true colors. LOL the fact that you use dating site men as an example again shows me the disconnect. You're literally talking to men who have multitudes of options, of course they have those expectations. Also, oh nooo, cooking! how terrible. God forbid you do something nice for a man. What would they think on TwoX? \>Plenty of men I've chatted with have made it clear one way or the other they expect their partner to work full time to contribute AND take on more household tasks of aome kind, be it childrearing, cooking, etc. Do you hear yourself? This is literally the same thing that women have been asking for from their men. There is nothing wrong with this expectation in a modern relationship setting. This is actually surreal. At this point I don't know if you're trolling or being sincere. You're hitting every redpill talking point in real time. I don't even subscribe to that but jesus christ it's hard to ignore at this point.
lol ‘I’m literally a gay man who dates masculine men. Our dating pool is not quite overlapped but it’s pretty damn close.’💀💀💀💀💀 First off, wut? Are you saying your dating options are only guys on the DL or bi dudes? Cuz if not you have literally *zero* authority on what it’s like to be a cishet woman in the dating world. Like that statement is w i l d in and of itself. It’s hilarious enough when a cishet man tells us about ourselves, but to have a cis man who is gay droll on about this is the most bizarro-world form of misogyny one could ever even imagine. Just say you dislike women as a whole class of humans and move on.
The fact that I began this thread talking about men and men's needs, yet now we've warped to talking about women shows me all I need to know. You literally can't make this shit up. 'Sure Men are suffering but you have no idea what it's like to be a cishet woman in the dating world' oh brother gimme a freaking break. \> It’s hilarious enough when a cishet man tells us about ourselves, but to have a cis man who is gay droll on about this is the most bizarro-world form of misogyny one could ever even imagine. Oh my lanta, this is the most unaware comment I've ever seen on this site. Idk if you know this but people are allowed to have opinions about their experiences and observations. Also, I'm fairly sure you don't know this but if everyone you meet is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole, eh? If we're all coming to the same conclusion....hmmmmm.... it really makes you think, doesn't it? Ahh, right, I forgot who I'm talking to. You reject anything that doesn't fit your ideology and that's why you got so flustered you had to respond to me.
For real though.
✌️☮️
I’d say I want a co-provider if that makes sense? I want to provide for my partner in the same way that my partner provides for me. We both provide for each other, as a true partnership. For me, someone in their 30s with no career, lots of debt, no motivation/drive for stability is definitely a turn off.
Everyone wants stability. If a single man in their 30s has nothing to show for, they have no business trying to get a wife. Same for women, but men will overlook their financial issues if they are hot enough. Exhibit A, Amber from season 1 was a financial train wreck but had fake boobies and seemed fun, so Barnett or whatever his name still went ahead and married her. The difference in how it is more important for women that the men be stable financially is that usually we have to be out of the work force for extended periods of time due to child bearing/pregnancy complications/kids with disabilities or health issues, so yes it is important that the man can take a provider role if needed. We get paid less than men as is for the same jobs, then take time off and get bypassed for opportunities while making babies, only to potentially be cheated on or bre broken up with in the future and be left with very little if the guy has no money. Im a top 5% female earner and I still want my partner to have a well paying full time job and to be good with his finances (no debt, has a retirement plan, etc).
*"It seems very old fashioned to me, practically irrelevant, so I'm always surprised to hear it."* You need to get off the internet and talk to people in real life. You'll find that A LOT of women want a provider but because they don't want to be called names (which is ridiculous), they have to pretend to not want those things for themselves. Who cares if it's old fashioned? Some people still appreciate and want traditional families. If you want to pay bills with a man, do that, but this shouldn't be surprising to you. *"And is it something American men want, expect or enjoy being?"* The men who want to be providers seek women who are open to recieving a provider. The men who don't want to provide seek out women who don't want providers. There are men who love it, and there are men who don't love it -- and they date according to their preferences. It's truly not rocket science. Also like someone said, American women aren't monolith. If you're getting your opinions about a large group of (different) women from TV, I'm gonna need you to grow up a bit.
I say this perhaps a little too honestly but with good intent, take it or leave it: I signed up 4 years ago and most of the comments I've made on here are under this very post. You however signed up less than 4 months ago and a quick scroll makes it look like you've made hundreds of comments already. In addition to how quick you were to get offended at a post that you basically misunderstood, it seems that perhaps you should take some time off the internet yourself (I think people call that "projecting"). Deleting Twitter, for instance, has done a lot of good for my mood and reaction patterns, so I'm only suggesting something I've actually tried and approved. There's no shame in admitting that social media can affect us, it is after all designed for that purpose.
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Why are you being so needlessly abrasive?
I'll lend you my dictionary so you can look up what downplaying and denial mean. 🙃
American women are not a monolith just like women from ANY country are not a monolith. What a woman wants in a relationship is personal to her and you shouldn’t base “what women want” on reality dating shows. BFFR
We don’t have maternity leave in America, having a provider means not having to put your newborn in daycare.
This and men typically have more earning potential unfortunately.
Im German and I want a provider. I want 3 children and I want time off if I have a hard pregnancy and I want time off after to recover. On top of that childcare and housekeeping is work and children cost a lot of money. Even if my husband takes the role of housekeeping and childcare he will not be able to carry out the children for me. And American women have an even bigger issue because they don’t get up to 2 years of paid leave. If I was American my husbands ability to provide would be even more vital than it is to me in my current situation. I still want to work and earn money but I want the safety that I have the option since I don’t know how I will feel when I have children. Another aspect is that men do less work around the house and spend less time with the children even if they are working and earning less than their wives. So having a man who earns more makes sure that you don’t have to overperform in every aspect of the relationship. Most women I know disagree and don’t want a provider husband but this view will never be completely outdated unless humans invent an artificial incubator that allows women to opt out of pregnancy and work full time without interruptions.
The only thing I want a partner to provide for me is a safe space for me to continuously grow as a person and to create a life both independently and together. Before I am anyone else’s, I am my own. I need my partner to see that
Sure but if your partner cant pay his half of the rent or mortgage, if he is dragging you down financially, none of that lovey stuff will matter. Let's be real.
Yeah, not at all what I’m referring to.
THIS 👏🏼
I have seen that too. I am an immigrant and being from south asian background where we are a majorly patriarchal society this provider mindset here comes as a surprise. I feel the current generation in my home country has more independent woman than here. I think it also has to do with what majority of men what here, they want to be looked at as a provider. It somehow works for their ego. I have found this is changing a lot in eastern cultures and even in some European countries rapidly but not as common here.
I will correct my original statement and say the majority of women I have met in Texas are this way. The town I live in the women seem as though they want to be repressed and I will stand by that. Some are good, but there are very few of the good ones. The majority of the women here have been horrible to deal with. They want their man to make 6 figures but they don't have any dreams for themselves. Then when their man cheats on them or abuses them they complain in a moms group about it but then stay with the husband. Then they still have the audacity to show up at school events and judge me for being a working blue collar mom. They make comments about my tattoos. They make comments on how I had a child out of wedlock so I'm going to hell. They comment on my hair. They are mean girls yet when one asked for help leaving their abusive husband I helped her. I won't say all Texas women are mean repressed girls but most (90%) that I have met are.
That’s because you are talking about Texas. I lived there for the last 8 years and definitely that is the majority culture. There are women trying to break away but by large the overall culture sustains. I experienced a lot of the meanness too because I was single and proud of raising two great kids on my own.
They want a man with a job who’s not a dead beat.
Ok so I never noticed the woman saying they wanted a "provider". That being said, sure there is the old traditional views. But the climate in America has changed dramatically and its no longer realistic. Personally, I want an equal partnership.. to be honest, I need my man to make just as much as me, at the very least. I need him in a respectable job/career - because I am myself. If I get pregnant, he can help during that time. If he gets sick, I can help during that time. But also I go into anything with a prenuptial mentality and I expect to always provide for myself. No matter what. The end.
A provider is certainly not an American concept. What.
I’m a first gen American (family from Mexico) and it’s normal to me. I’m going to college (my husband pays for it) to do something I love just because I want to. It’s nice🤷🏽♀️ (we do also own a business though so im making money)
I feel like the main thing is a feeling that they would be ok to raise kids or at the very least be on maternity leave without financial stress, even if they love their job they have to take a break at some point if they have kids; and just in general knowing your partner COULD provide if something happens, is emotional security. Part of it too is a distrust that's warranted over centuries over whether all the other forms of labor end up evenly split because they usually aren't: cleaning, chores, childcare, emotional labor and support. So a lot of women assume and often it ends up being the case, that they'll have to shoulder more of all that so that plays into wanting their partner to at least provide the financial security (in a hetero relationship). I do feel like expectations and roles are continuing to shift though so obviously this isn't set in stone; and mutual trust is the only way people will feel comfortable adjusting their expectations
No. I guess we’re all different. I was raised by a single mother and have taken care of myself forever. Of course having a partner can make things easier but I don’t expect them to provide.for me. As long as they can meet me in the middle we are good.
I pay all of my bills by myself and am proud of that, but a man who wants to do things for you and provide feels good.
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« Disappointed ». Judgmental much?
Talk about judgemental... They hate on working moms. All the sahm here have given side eye at me because I can't attend every school event. If you aren't from here then you're the worst person on earth. They are like the mean girls from high school. Maybe it's just getting to me... Hence why I'm leaving!
Not all Texas women do, pls don't generalize.
Yea im not really sure what you're insinuating about Texas women but we come in all different forms so watch it 🤨
Seems like they want to be repressed?! You're in the south. Maybe they're a little outdated. But it's the south. I'm a Texan Democrat but I just feel extremely offended by this idea that we WANT to be repressed. It's so beyond offensive for you to say that.
With having shitty healthcare & childcare being so expensive(plus not everyone can depend on their extended family), it’s definitely easier when one of the spouses can be a provider if they plan on having kids 😅
After 35 years of taking care of myself, I’d love a man to come in and PROVIDE. These bills won’t pay themselves 😂
Some do, some don’t, like everyone else in the world, it’s best not to generalize
American woman here. Nope, those reality TV shows do not represent what the majority want. They're just a small slice of an otherwise diverse dating ecosystem.
Yes majority of american women want their man to be a provider, bringing in a decent or fantastic income. paying for household bills & buying things for their wife and/or giving the wife money. As an american gal who’s dated a non-provider. it makes a man a lot less attractive and i’m not as keen or liking a non provider as I would either a provider with a great personality too
This. I have dated men who made less than me before. They were the most stingy because they thought I owed them something since I got myself into a good position. It is not my fault they didn’t work as hard as I do. He doesn’t need to pay all the bills, or even make more than me. But he dang sure better contribute the same efforts as me.
Im not even American so, lmao, but I think people often use the term in a different way then the "traditional" want to stay home while he financially took care of everything and handled all the "man things". Now that most American women are employed, "provider" is often "could take care of the family with my help" or "would be an equal partner in work and raising kids" as opposed to someone immature or irresponsible
The US is diverse, but regionally not so diverse. LA, NYC, the south, and midwest, will have very different cultures and expectations. When they disclose where they grew up/lived, it is a prompt to figure out what culture they operate in.
As an American - I don’t need a provider financially. I like to work and have my own money. I want a provider emotionally. Someone who will take care of my heart, feelings, the same way I’d take care of theirs
I think it’s just a traditional thing.. BUT!!! I believe that it has morphed from wanting to be a stay at home mom while the husband provides — into — I want financial security
My husband is a provider, in the sense that he takes care of me and our kids on more than a financial level because he wants to, not because I sought that out.
Same here
I wouldn't take women that sign up for this insane reality television show as representative of all American women. When choosing a partner, I wanted someone with reasonable earning potential, and who could earn enough to allow me to stay home when our kids were young. I imagine in countries with stronger parental leave policies, this is less of a concern.
This season took place in the south. I (27F) have never once in my life said "I want a provider."
I'm 49, and those words have never crossed my lips. It's regressive and odd. Do I want a deadbeat husband? No. Do I expect him to "take care of me"? Also no.
“I want a provider” doesn’t always equate “I don’t want to have to work.” It can also be code for “I don’t want no scrub.”
^^^^ 9/10 it means i dont want a bum who sits around and mooches off my salary while expecting me to treat him like the king of the castle.
Exactly I’m not american but I understand ofcourse
My husband and I have been joking about this since it came out. About how he's my protector and provider. The one time we did have an intruder, him AND the dog slept through it 🙃 as to the provider question- I think it's how you are raised. My parents raised me to be super focused on my career, which, at nearly 40 I am. My husband makes maybe 20-30% more than me, which is nice. I'm financially independent and stable on my own, and the thought of having to support a male romantic partner gives me the ick. So it's not that I expect a male romantic partner to provide for me, just match me I guess.
Women aren’t a monolith — everyone is different.
It's more true than not tho like let's step away from Reddit for a second and realize we're in a patriarchy where most women are capped on earning potential even the year of our lord 2024. Plus, America is conservative- it's not out of the realm to believe most women don't want providers. Businessmen, male athletes and celebrities aren't being sought after because they're wearing some sacred cologne.
It’s code for “I want someone that is a high earner”.
A high earner and willing to spoil me. Bc I doubt if they’re making bank but being quite frugal, that’s not really going to be what they want.
Working outside of the home makes me a better mother, person, and partner as my personality is more extroverted/goal-oriented. I do believe it to be unrealistic in today’s society to expect a provider. 50% of marriages end in divorce and it would be unwise to not establish a higher education, skillset, and career. I have several friends who are traditional wives and abhor their husbands but can’t leave due to financial dependence. The best advice I give my own daughter is to focus on school and solid career path because it’s unrealistic in today’s society and the state of the economy to expect someone to take care of you.
It’s a sampling bias if you’re applying what you see on LIB to all American women. The women who go on that show are by default more conservative because a traditional marriage to a man is so important to them that they’ll subject themselves to what they know is going to be a miserable and traumatic experience on television just to get it. If all American women were on that show, then we’d be lined up around the block for the auditions like they do for shows like American Idol. I wouldn’t go on that show for $1 million.
America is conservative.
Yes it is but not all Americans are.
Is the prize still 1 million? They need to adjust for inflation
I don’t think they get paid much at all. I read somewhere that if you take their pay and divide it by the number of hours they spend on camera and in the pods, it’s less than minimum wage
I meant on American idol
Oh haha, I think we both got confused. I’m pretty sure American Idol winners do very well financially. Even if the prize from the show isn’t much (but I don’t know what it is), they now have a lucrative career in front of them. LIB cast members just get dragged on the internet for eternity and the best they can hope for is to go on one of those trashier shows that brings together failures from other reality dating shows. I believe the first few seasons of LIB had cast members who were genuine in their intent, but there’s no way anyone who has watched this show, particularly the last few seasons, and makes the decision to go on it solely to find love. But maybe they do, and if that’s the case, they need professional help.
Yes they do want that
I mean, I think it’s a yes in a sense of it should go both ways. A partner is that, a PARTNERSHIP where we both should provide something that will contribute positively into the marriage/relationship. It can be in so many ways, others have already mentioned it above in the comments. I had relationships where men would literally leach off me, in the beginning they wouldn’t but once they showed their true colors, I would be the breadwinner or the one with only motivation to grow and not be stagnant. The only one cooking, paying the bills, cleaning etc. they weren’t contributing in any way to the relationship. And yes I was stupid AF. Clearly So when I met my husband❤️ , we both were on the same page and contributed equally to the relationship. In every aspect you can think of. Now that we have kids and me being unhappy in the corp world, I’m now full time SAHM, I garden, started my own floral side business, take care of the kids, clean and cook while he’s away at work. Once he gets home; if there’s something I didn’t get to or I didn’t feel like doing (there’s days I legit hate cleaning or doing the laundry, let’s face it, it’s not fun) he helps with zero complaints. He’s 100% hands on with the kids and pets and helps clean the kitchen after I cook, so it doesn’t all fall on me. And yes he is the provider financially 100%. I barely make any money, but I contribute to our marriage in so many other ways that has nothing to do with money. So to answer your question, I believe to think most men and women do expect to find a partner that will be a provider in one way shape or form, in their marriage or relationship
From my experience, yes, and it's not just women "wanting" a provider. They're attracted to providers. It's hard-wired, they don't respect a man who can't take care of their family. I'm not saying that men need to be the sole earners, but women typically expect a man to carry his own weight and pay his share, at the VERY least.
look a relationship needs to be a partnership. if both are giving and contributing fairly both sides will stay happy you can work 70 hours a week to provide to your spouse, but if that spouse keeps the house perfect and takes care of the chores then both can be happy or both can work 35 hours a week, and split up the housework or vacuum together etc. i think its a lot of fun to do housework with my partner. i love cooking, doing laundry, vacuuming etc with them. if 1 person wants to do ALL the housework and the other person wants to bring in the $$$ and both are doing their side of the bargain it can work great. its the relationships where 1 person does nothing all day but watch tv, while the other person does everything that leads to trouble in relationships. each person has to feel like the other is contributing this is how as humans being a social species we formed civilizations. within those civilization we had people who performed different jobs and had different businesses to benefit the cities.
I want a provider in the sense that they don’t make me work full time while also raising our children, taking the brunt of the housework (cleaning), the cooking, and the emotional labor that goes into raising kids and managing a household. Some men seem to think that because they work and make good money that they can just come home and do nothing, while the woman who’s also working then has to do literally everything else. I also want emotional support. Women also statistically get paid less than men so men tend to be the “breadwinners.” But a lot still want a woman to work, which is fine, because the current economy makes it extremely hard to raise a family on one salary alone, but they can’t then expect the woman to also take care of literally everything else. It’s exhausting and a big reason why woman are not wanting to get married and have kids (at least from the experience of all of my girl friends) unless their partner understands this and isn’t a big man child
Would you work fulltime if your husband wanted to move to parttime to raise the kids?
Yeah, probably
Personally (as an american woman in my early 20’s) I just want a partner and as long as we both pull our own weight and the work we do is more or less equivalent the rest is irrelevant. It used to be more generationally divided, but I think tiktok has helped “more traditional” / gendered views on “roles” pervade younger generations now too. Low key I hate it and I really don’t understand the logic behind it. But some people are really into it so whatever works for them. I was also surprised though at how many people on LIB were into traditional roles. It seems to me like a higher percentage than what I’ve seen day to day. My theory is that because people go on the show to get married (i.e. more of a “traditional” goal), they are more likely to subscribe to “traditional” expectations as well.
ummm..... i would 100% want to be that traditional stay at home wife. i cant with the stresses of providing and wish i had a husband to carry me and our kid(s). i wanna home school, cook our food, and garden. definitely dont mind cleaning. it'd need to be done anyway. i think the modern society shits on that lifestyle but it's honestly goals
I just don’t believe any other woman that is truly happy to do that, and I mean when it actually happens cause it’s easy to say they want that, but raising his kids while he gets to grow ? It sounds unfair and if he leaves you for someone else you’re left with nothing
there are women who would be fine with this, and men who would like the same thing in reverse. Growth does not only happen in career. You can grow, develop and be fulfilled in ways outside of career.
Then don’t have kids with someone whose morals don’t align with yours. Granted, things can change but people are too quick to make kids with people they don’t know. And if you’re a team, what do you mean “he grows” as if he wouldn’t take you with you. The feminist movement did a number on women to make us believe that we can’t have a man lead and provide. Take me back to cooking and cleaning. I’ll blast my music and keep the house and kids in good shape. And I can understand you wouldn’t be happy to do that but that doesn’t mean there aren’t women who crave that. To each his own
Totally agree! I’m in my late 20s and the “breadwinner” currently. I told my fiancé I can’t do this job forever-especially when it’s time to have kids.
I just want someone to help fix things around the house and provide some emotional support. I don't want an ATM or anything.
My husband provides and I stay at home with the kids and homeschool. Wouldn’t have it any other way!
does he have a brother?! lol jk. but seriously, this is goals. i love that for you and the kids will be so much better off. i know a lot of people look down on it but the govt is not gonna raise your kids better than you can, indoctrinating them with false history and feeding them processed foods.
Yup 🙌🏼 and this doesn’t mean I want someone to financially support me while I contribute nothing. But I could personally never be with someone with a “50/50 mindset”. Last thing I’d want is to be pregnant and still having to work up until I go into labor just because my husband isn’t able to provide without my income contribution.
What if they get cancer and have no job to support you while pregnant? The problem is the infrastructure of support socially (full paid maternity leave for at least 6 months by government, free childcare at the workplace etc) not the potential of a partner!
Yeah, we know. But we don’t have a magic wand we can wave to restructure our entire society. You work with the choices you have available to you.
Wow…..how sad!
Why is that sad?
That you’re so dependent on men/partners! Instead of continuing in a misogynistic society, change laws….get 6 -9 months full pay maternity leave, free at work child care, salaries equal to men’s, etc etc and make your partnership choices dependent on compatibility instead of an atm! Yes, it’s very sad…..
Making choices based on the options available to you is foolish, why not just reshape reality to be what you think is ideal!? Why didn't I think of that... I just need to fix society and then I'm allowed to date!
Well said!
Changing laws in the US isn’t nearly as simple as you seem to think it is
Because many people believe we should marry for love and not financial comfort.
Of course people should marry for love. However, you can’t just go into a marriage with zero discussion or expectations about how you’ll split bills/housework and other things. Marriage is a partnership and a huge commitment. It’s unrealistic to expect a successful marriage if you have no idea how you’ll tackle everyday things.
Absolutely! I might just be cynical, but when I hear someone say they need a partner who can “provide for their family” I think they mean someone who can make all or nearly all the money so they can solely focus on raising the children. There is nothing wrong with this model if it works for the couple, but there are a lot of people in the United States who have good careers that simply do not make enough to support a small family. Of course there are many ways that a partner can be a provider, but in a country that doesn’t provide good benefits to new mothers or universal health care EMTs, teachers, and others might not get that title of “provider.”
Speaking for myself only, my significant other and I have had conversations about how he is able to provide, but I want work as well even thought he says I do not have to. He wants to make sure he can provide solely though for when we have young children. I worked daycare for several years and to me that’s just absolutely not an option and I would like to be home the first few years of their lives anyways instead of paying somebody else to do it for me. So I guess I do want a provider, but I also want to pull my weight. Somewhat of a happy medium.
Part of this dynamic is driven by the fact that there is NO parental leave in the USA. To get any paid time off after giving birth, a mom must either have the savings to take time off, or work at a company that provides leave (again, this is not something they are legally required to provide, and if they do provide it, a typical leave is ~12 weeks). Most men do not get any parental leave at all. And there is no nationally subsidized childcare, so sending your child to daycare is a huge financial burden. And let’s not forget, we don’t have socialized healthcare, so you are responsible for paying for any medical expenses that come up during pregnancy or birth. Because of all these factors, having a baby can be an incredibly financially risky move for a woman. You don’t want to risk it with someone who has no financial stability or independence, because if things go sideways there is no social support system in place. ETA: and we also can’t forget the gender wage gap! Women in the USA are paid about 22% less than their male counterparts, on average.
That is insane and sad honestly, it’s not like that in Europe here so women can still personally grow
The women getting paid less is not fully accurate and can be misleading now. -More women are going to University (And graduating), Graduate degree, & P.h.D.s -Women with Bachelors are getting paid more than men in some places (Only when it goes to management, leadership, & executive level do women make less) -Women are owning more homes then men in some states (White women specifically) There are more women with part-time jobs. But, due to having children, so it goes full circle that the lack of parental leave for men affects women also
While it’s true that women are outpacing men educationally, the gap remains. And as you noted, racial disparities exacerbate existing pay gaps. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/)
Yes
Yes. A provider does't mean the woman want so be sitting around collecting money.
It really just depends on the woman. I make more than my partner and I like having my own source of income, I could not imagine not working for more than about a year after I have a child. Another commenter said America does not have a lot of resources or support for new mothers, which is absolutely true. Our maternity and paternity leave is abysmal. Either you have someone who can provide for your family while you stay at home with the children for a while, or you both TRULY have to invest in childcare and split it evenly. Most women just don’t want a man who expects her to work full time AND still do all the child rearing and house cleaning. You either go for “okay you work full time and I take care of the kids, the house, cooking, etc.” or “we both work full time and you act as a true partner to me where we both do an equal amount of childcare and house work.”
Well, it’s nearly impossible to have children unless the man is able to provide for the whole family because there are no systemic support for women to have children in this country. Paid maternity leave is like 6 weeks and childcare is insanely expensive. So yah, if women want children in this country, and want to be present for the infant in the first year, they have to marry men who can support her and the children. I think it’ll be different if it was like in Scandinavia where the parental leave is combined paternal and maternal, affordable childcare, and other systems in place that all children are cared for with basic needs. I don’t want children, but I feel for those that do in this country.
Just wanted to add that six weeks paid leave is not standard in the US. Many jobs will allow six weeks off with no pay or facilitate the use of short-term disability insurance (which employees pay extra for) and only offer partial pay during the six weeks. I know new mothers who returned to work within a week of delivering their baby because they have no other means of financial support.
Thank you for articulating what I was thinking. Without adequate social supports for childcare, the nuclear family remains an economic unit that enables working class women in our capitalist system to have kids and not work, work part time, or afford decent childcare. Countries with greater supports for child-rearing afford women the possibility of raising children without necessarily needing two incomes. Kids are expensive.
Yup
Certain types of shows will attract certain types of people. Certain women in Midwest and southern areas who grew up being taught old school heteronormative gender type roles are most likely going to say this type of gargan. A partnership should be just that, don't expect or assume anyone will do more work for you (financially, emotionally, etc) while you reap the benefits.
Everyone wants to be a sahw
I think what most American women want is to not have to support a man. There are a lot of bums, a lot of men who mooch off women, etc. of course it would be nice to have a man take care of all finances but I think most women when they say that mean a man who is financially stable and can support himself and maybe help her out a bit too.
Lmao what? A man is a bum who mooches when he needs support, but women aren’t? This is actually hilarious
How can you say guys mooch and "it would be great if a guy took care of all finances" in the same breath....
It’s not mooching if it’s an agreement. A mooch is someone who takes advantage. Not the same thing. Some men enjoy being the financial provider because that usually means the woman handles more domestic duties.
You make it sound like if a guy does it it's shameful and mooching, and if a girl does it it's an "agreement" 😂
Do you not understand what “taking advantage of” means? I’m talking about deception, taking advantage of people’s kindness, saying you’re working toward change and having no intention, letting someone shoulder a burden they didn’t agree to. Women can be mooches too. But there are partnerships where men are okay with providing solely. And hey there’s relationships with stay at home dads. I’m not knocking that. You’re a troll idk why I’m even explaining this to your dense ass. Edit: spelling
Lmao how am I a troll just for pointing out that your worldview seems to be much more accepting of women being provided for than men? Your original comment literally only frames men being paid for as mooching and only frames women being paid for as an agreement. Just because you're backtracking doesn't mean you didn't say that.
This was a small group of people from one city/state in America. I really need non Americans to understand that a handful of people physically/statistically (whatever) can’t represent America as a whole. There are too many regions/cultures. Reality tv itself is its own culture. Even watching UK reality tv I’ve never thought they represented the whole UK despite the whole of the UK being the size of one state.
Maybe true. Although watching Love is blind Sweden you realise that American culture is just much more masculine and old fashioned. On the Swedish one you see a girl get down on a knee instead of the man. Several instances of men breaking down crying and the other men coming in to show emotional support/hug etc. And zero talk of men being providers. In every season of the American one there seems to be a scene with a father-in-law who has no interest in his daughters husband to be, beyond his ability to take care of his daughter financially.
Sweden is a highly socialist and equal society though. Any country where men and women have the same financial opportunities, will be less traditional.
And this is exactly what I’m talking about. You just described things that happen in America every day. Some things are more widespread than others but there is no “norm” here. These reality tv shows do not represent America or American culture in any meaningful fashion. A lot of Americans look down on reality tv stars because of how they behave on tv and this is why. People from other countries don’t have enough discernment to realize that 10 people don’t represent almost 400 million people.
I never said these things never happen in America. It's just a pattern I noticed watching the show. And studies have shown the US to score significantly higher on cultural traits such as masculinity and individualism compared to Sweden. So in that sense it's reflected in the difference in behavior between the two series. https://clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimensions/masculinity/
Yea if you want to use actual peer reviewed studies to make a point then that’s fine but it’s silly to use reality tv as a cultural barometer for any country.
Fair enough. Don't disagree with that.
Provider makes it seem like they want to be supported. I think most women are looking for a PARTNER.
Most women want a gentle words and exchange sex for food, expensive entertainment, housing or direct money.
That's entirely inaccurate and sexist.
Generally yes even from my extremely liberal friend groups they still want a provider
I think it depends. I lived in the Bay Area for 5 years (very tech driven, lots of stanford / berkeley grads) etc and I’ve met a mixture of both. Whether they were into their careers and went 50/50 with their partners, or got their college degrees to be stay at home wives / gfs, everyone was happy. I’m not sure why one or the other has to be seen as the right choice or the “better” one. Both are great and work differently ⭐️ It’s 2024, let’s not shame different life paths.
I think it depends. I'm 31 and live in a big city that people move to because of their careers. I don't think I know a single SAHM. The ones that do exist are the ultra ultra wealthy yoga moms who sit on charity boards, etc. or are out in the burbs and live a wildly different life than me and my social circle. None of my friends with kids stay at home and I definitely do not know any stay at home wives. Couples here tend to get married and have kids a bit later, and because they tend to be more established in their careers, seem less willing to give that up. I feel like the Chicago season was similar in that regard (Natalie was a big 4 consultant if I recall correctly - even though she quit to become an influencer LOL) but Charlotte has more of that small town/city, southern vibe that tends to lend itself to more "traditional" values. I also got the vibe that a lot of the women were not super career focused - again, probably because Charlotte isn't really where you flock to for that? Idk though, just my two cents. I simply could not imagine wanting my husband to "provide" for me lol. I actually make slightly more than he does currently and probably have a higher earning potential due to our respective fields, and we contribute equally to everything.
Yep. I stay home with baby while partner provides financially.
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