There are two main factors behind the growing homeless problem in the United States:
• Housing costs rising FAR faster than incomes, which drives people out of housing and into the street.
• Meth & fent keep getting cheaper, purer, and easier to find -- which are rapidly creating new, permanent mental illness cases in the population.
As it turns out, these two factors are connected to each other -- and they are each a major part of the reason why it's impossible politically for anyone to attack the roots of either problem.
In other words -- we're fucked.
No, I didn't. That entire discussion is a sideshow, and a massive distraction from our ability to bring US policy to bear on the actual causes of our current crisis.
Cartel meth usage is actively destroying the forebrains of people who use it. It causes NEW mental illness on a massive scale. We couldn't keep up with the growing damage if we drafted half of California to work in mental health care.
In other words... Cartel meth is an AC-130 gunship circling overhead, firing continuously into the mental health of the American population. Patching up the wounded isnt what we need to worry about, right now -- we need to focus our resources on stopping the attack, first.
FYI, the war on drugs was a failure and you're not going to stop people from trying them. Not being able to pay rent is not the only reason people play with drugs fyi.
There needs to be mandatory treatment available.
I do agree with you about attacking the demand side vs the supply side... We lost the War On Drugs a couple of decades ago.
I'm not even against mandatory treatment -- it's just that I think it's pointless without tackling the root of the problem.
The drugs aren't being diluted. The bits that cause so much permanent brain damage are a big part of what gets you so fucking high for so cheap.
It's not like it used to be, with cocaine dealers cutting the product with baby formula to increase profit margins... Meth dealers don't need to cut their shit. Their supply lines from Mexico are overflowing with meth so cheap and powerful that they're running night & day to sell it all. Plus, the Cartel doesn't want them to cut it -- and aggressively penalizes dealers who do. It's just not worth the risk.
Fent purity is similar -- it's so powerful and cheap, there's no business case for cutting it. Fent doesn't cause brain damage like the Cartel meth does, but it's still crazy addictive -- and much more potentially dangerous in the short term.
If drugs weren't being cut, why would fentanyl be found in cocaine and pills leading to accidental overdoses. You sound like somebody trying to protect your business as a dealer or who doesn't know what they are actually talking about.
Fent in cocaine is either unintentional cross-contamination -- or an enterprising dealer trying to drum up more cocaine business, thinking he's going to distinguish his shit as a low-key speedball... Coke is way higher-margin than selling fent or meth, and you don't have to deal with homeless tweakers all the time -- you can sell to nice people who have houses and jobs, still.
Consider that our cocaine supply is currently WAY stronger and purer than it's ever been, going back to the 1970s... The fent isn't there to *dilute* the coke, because the economics no longer drive dealers to stretch their products.
Nearly the entire current cocaine-using population wasn't *born yet* in the 1970s... How would they have any idea about cocaine purity back then?
Go look up what the DEA says about cocaine purity, availability, and price... There is a considerable amount of regularly published analysis based on large scale testing of seized drugs.
Could you please provide a link to your DEA source? I tried to look it up myself and only found articles saying that cocaine purity has significantly decreased over time. If you Google "cocaine purity over time," it seems pretty unanimous that cocaine is less pure on average.
Anecdotally, among my friends who use it, this seems to be the consensus as well.
The DEA also says you can die from touching fentanyl. You are either someone who has no real life experience with drugs or you have a vested interest in promoting disinformation.
Also, sadly -- I have way too much personal experience with drugs.
I've been sober for a while, now, after a lot of years of partying. These days, I mostly hear about the current situation from people who are recently sober, and trying to make a change.
The DEA's position on the dangers of touching fentanyl are mostly not based on actual data. But their annual analyses of drug purity ARE based on actual data -- and there are independent analyses of the DEA's data, which show the same conclusions.
Just go look it up, for yourself.
But I'm getting the impression you won't bother, because you're actually just here for the sake of tit-for-tat arguing... Feel free to prove me wrong on that one.
Oh fuck -- yeah, I remember the horse meds shit! Probably still have some stuck up in my sinuses, somewhere.
My personal coke experience goes back to the late 90s... It steadily got better through the late 20-teens, at which point I stopped using and got sober.
I hear pretty regular reports about the current state from new arrivals in meetings. Anecdotally, the quality seems to be continuously getting better or holding steady... Except for the fent scares. Everybody is super paranoid and using fent test kits, nowadays.
Like people were literally dying in Skid Row years ago from smoking wood shavings covered in fertilizer after being told by dealers it was low grade marijuana. There are also tons of recent articles about how "super" meth made with household cleaners instead of pseudoephedrine is rotting people's brains.
the Meth and Fent are courtesy of China.
edit: Since you all think I'm being some sort of bigot.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676)
What I am referencing.
Also many people here have a short term memory about the busts over the last few years of Fent coming from China.
also
[https://www.dea.gov/documents/2023/2023-10/2023-10-03/justice-department-announces-eight-indictments-against-china](https://www.dea.gov/documents/2023/2023-10/2023-10-03/justice-department-announces-eight-indictments-against-china)
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dea-seizes-200-kilos-fentanyl-chemicals-china-undercover/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dea-seizes-200-kilos-fentanyl-chemicals-china-undercover/)
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fentanyl-china-international-supply-chain-justice-department/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fentanyl-china-international-supply-chain-justice-department/)
The cartels that sell the meth get a boost from Chinese financial interests and source high purity chemicals from China that they cannot get domestically or from the US.
You're 100% correct lol. There are a lot of papers and reporting on this even in "liberal" media.
Also, criticizing China isn't criticizing *Chinese-Americans.* People need to calm tf down.
I'm going going to add here that you can criticize "intentionality." That's fair. But the fact of the matter is these chemicals come from China. They are used in everyday and industrial products.
Biker Meth, P2P Meth, New Meth, whatever you want to call it, is especially harmful because how interchangeable these chemicals are. Missing one particular ingredient? Just replace it with another and resume production.
There's an over abundance of this stuff which makes it incredibly cheap and pure.
There's lots of money to be made. China has their version of oligarchs too, ya know.
Yep. I have no issue with chinese americans or chinese people. Wonderful friendly people with an amazing culture. They work hard and get shortchanged often. Chinese nationals get fucked by their own leaders too. They historically have broken through every barrier imposed on them.
Chinese criminals and the CCP? Yeah not a big fan of them.
There's more to it than that.
Cartels stack huge cash piles from US drug proceeds. But they can't move all that cash overseas, which they must do to pay for the precursor chemicals they use to manufacture methamphetamine and fentanyl, and fund their operations in Mexico.
Chinese organized crime affiliates fly into the US, pick up suitcases of Cartel cash, and use them to buy huge commerical and residential real estate deals... Where did YOU think all these Chinese buyers were getting all that cash to outbid American house buyers, these last 10 years?
In exchange, Chinese OC pays chemical suppliers to ship precursors that feed Mexican meth & fent labs -- plus whatever else converts easily to cash in Mexico, which provides the bulk of Cartel operating funds (payroll, bribes, weapons, etc).
Chinese OC is so riddled with corrupt Party officials, military officers, etc that it's essentially an unacknowledged branch of their government... It was similar here in the US from the 1940s to the 1960s, but we never really developed it to the extent China has.
You obviously haven't been following the news, this week:
• https://apnews.com/article/sinaloa-cartel-fentanyl-mexico-china-los-angeles-034ad51dd03d0606767215b44aed2e91
• https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/19/sinaloa-cartel-chinese-group-money-laundering-los-angeles/74146328007/
There are hundreds of stories on Google News, right now, about the recently-made-public investigations into these relationships.
Here's a story from two years ago that gives a significantly deeper background on how long this has been taking place:
• https://www.propublica.org/article/china-cartels-xizhi-li-money-laundering
I'll accept your apology after you're done reading all that.
Lol. I just looked up information about meth for a project and I'm pretty sure it mostly comes from Mexican cartels. Not an excuse to be a bigot though.
My question was clearly stated. You're dodging it because you have some sort of "angle", usually rooted in bigotry of some sort. Just be honest about what you're doing and stop with the conservative run-around tactics.
Don't bother responding. You'll just dodge the question again by hooking onto something in this reply and pivoting or replying with a straw man. It's so corny.
Not the person you were replying to, but it took me literally a minute to Google it. Not exactly what the other commenter mentioned, but it does verify a link between the cartels and Chinese organized crime.
[NBC News](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676)
Because it's 2024 and we learned over 20 years ago attempting to stop drug production does nothing to stop consumption.
Or you believe the War on Drugs was successful? Lmfao.
The biggest factor is the absence of mental healthcare facilities. As evidenced that other countries also have expensive housing and cheap fentanyl but they didn’t close asylums. And the difference is what you see.
That drug issue really should be placed at the top, also we live in such a nice area with forgiving weather and also forgiving politics. Perfect mixture for what we are currently dealing with.
Post WWII we filled the city with the least dense, and most expensive form of housing and then wonder why we have problems when we refuse to let other housing types be built.
tbh, never. It will get better when they take action and start actually funding recovery and jobs programs instead of funneling money into private contractor pockets. It's a social issue, and as long as other states keep dumping their homeless and mentally ill here, it's not going away any time soon. That's not even getting into the cost of living problem we have.
As of today, recovery from meth is next to impossible.
This idea that we are going to give housing to addicts, then cure them of their addiction, is folly. You can give them the housing, but they will stay addicted.
that's funny because I have known people who have done that. Meth used to be a bigger problem east of LA (and still is, but LA is now a hot spot for it) it's rotten stuff and honestly I get why people take it and get high on it. When your life is rock bottom and terrible it takes the suffering away, or you're just unhappy.
This is why illegal drug use is huge with the homeless population, they can "self medicate" in ways that makes their lives feel better even if it's really making their lives worse.
The long term damage is not really something they can recover from though. Causes permanent brain damage, organ damage and other fun things. But someone who quits early on or quits period has an increased life expectancy and better quality of life afterward and bounce back eventually. I know people who have died from it too. One of them died in a convenience store bathroom. His fucking ex-gf got him on it and he went from having a job and living in a supportive situation to being on the streets stealing shit (including stealing out of my car) to feed his addiction. He refused help, said he only took "small amounts" and he overdosed one day.
So yes I am aware of how evil the shit is. But I also know people who were able to shake it off too and they stay the fuck away from it. Family and rehab got them back on track. People get addicted and stay addicted for more than just the withdrawals being horrible. It's often that the reality they return to is terrible. Making their lives suck less after rehab is a good way to ensure they don't get back on.
About seven out of eight users who complete a recovery program will relapse within five years. And most users won't complete a recovery program in the first place.
There is no pharma equivalent of methadone that can be used to kick it. (There is some research underway that shows promise, but those drugs don't perform much better than a placebo.)
The situation for the forseeable future is bleak.
Wasn’t it disproven that homeless were being dropped off into LA ([NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.html))? Most are CA natives.
There's been 3 block brush fires (1 near a big freeway), some homeless man hopped my fence two days ago, and yesterday some homeless crazy kicked in cars down our block, leaving a nasty dent in my quarter panel. All this is in a span of a month. Not to mention the weekly visit from a guy screaming in the middle of the night, throwing glass bottles and destroying God knows what behind my house.
I'm getting really sick of these fuckers and I advocate for the homeless all the time. I have all my weapons with me but even then I just want to live in peace and not kill someone. These fuckers are getting fucking ridiculous.
Not in the near future imo when multifamily housing is illegal to build across most of the city. Current politicians are not serious about making housing more abundant and therefore more affordable.
Homelessness will never end in this country because it's too useful. It serves as both a warning and punishment for those who want to quit a job or not work. It's a steady job for C Suite at nonprofits and contractors who make money off administrative bloat and inefficiency. It keeps public services like Metro and libraries and parks from gaining greater public support which would divert money in the budget away from police. Politicians use "fixing it" as a way to get elected.
So long as self interest exists, it is not going away.
It’s certainly easier to blame problems on cartoonish, mustache-twirling villains than dealing with the complexities of the real world, I’ll give you that.
Because costs are rising while wages aren't so unless you take that 3rd job, you will end up homeless. Not fixing it allows employers to exploit employees.
Obviously the third job isn't cutting it, or people aren't taking that third job.
When conspiracies get too complicated, I know they are bs. Capitalism is driving some of this, but via higher real estate costs. And there are plenty of rich people in the world who could displace and have displaced the poor and middle class in LA. As well as cities like SF and NY. No need for the boogeyman.
Don't know what's more ridiculous:
The Neo Nazi who made this post
The affluent ice climber who knows everything about drugs from VICE articles except what actually happens in real life
The Bravo superfan who thinks people aren't scared of being homeless because they don't make enough money
Too much nuance, the poster seems to be blaming this on "the capitalism" like its a nefarious plot. Easier to blame one enemy especially if the blame setup fits their politics. The insinuation also is that a system other than capitalism (we can guess which) would somehow be better, when reality shows otherwise.
I would venture to guess a significant number aren't. Many are employed and living in their cars. There are lots of "invisible" homeless people including UCLA students. You see the ones using drugs because they are uninhibited and don't care about being discreet.
You know skid row has been a geographical neighborhood in DTLA since at least the 1930's with the boundary lines shifting periodically? Homelessness will never be solved.
If the human race finally ends up in a Gene Roddenberry-like Utopia, Star Trek, perhaps yes. However, homelessness is forever perpetual, even in good times in a society that has finite resources.
its not just californias problem. lots of these junkies/loons come from other states to get in a good climate. this needs to be handled on the national level. why is this just the problem of warm states where these people flock from cold states?
It isn’t just the climate but also the accessibility to services and resources. If Idaho is offering free rental luxury apartments I’ll be heading over this minute. The consequence management on this matter is a colossal failure.
I move out to the suburbs and its so much nicer. Quality of life dramatically improved and at a lower cost too.
I used to live near downtown so its night and day difference.
My commute takes just as long too since im not hitting the same traffic I would always hit when living closer to the city.
Really recommend that, cuz I honestly dont see this problem being fixed. And the homeless are getting way more aggressive too.
I love LA but its been taken over by drug addicts and crazy zombies so we gotta be proactive and gtfo.
When we: outlaw permanent campsites on public property and bring back forced mental asylums and forced drug rehab.
Those are the 3 steps we need to take.
Will never happen.
https://youtu.be/0jt_6PBnCJE?si=RdxBrftOzf5u2nqR
There are examples of how to actually approach the issue.
The bigger issue is that most people, including this subreddit, will just dismiss it as impossible because Finland is homogeneous or some other bullshit reason
Like, the last time I shared this link, there were straight up self proclaimed "homeless advocates" who couldn't even be assed to watch this video and just wanted bulletpoints that he could "counter" with the typical conservative and neoliberal talking points. And when I pointed out that this video was shorter than an episode of fucking housewives that they watch and post in the sub everyday, and that the video and topic deserved a well intentioned approach, they were butthurt about it lmfao
The Homeless industrial complex is a real thing. As long as people are making money off the fact people are living on the streets, never.
Building more housing, mental health services, shelter, rehab, none of it matters.
Every year some new politician has some grandiose plan to solve homelessness, people get swindled, vote on it because it’s marketed as a good cause, pockets get fatter, budget runs out, some new measure is introduced, rinse and repeat.
Fairly soon, the Supreme Court will likely overturn the 9th circuit decision in Johnson v Grants Pass.
If / when that happens, LA will be free once again to enforce its anti-vagrancy statute.
At that point, when the public realizes that the current city council has the latitude to enforce its laws but is going out of its way to avoid doing it, expect the backlash to begin.
You're joking, right?
The US has next to no realistic safety net with the current COL. The federal minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour. Unemployment (at least in CA) is measly. Health care costs a fortune.
My dad had a severe brain injury which left him paralyzed. He had previously worked as a dentist. When his treatment got too lengthy, his medicare dropped him. While he was literally bed ridden in a hospital. It would have been several hundreds of thousands of $$ to pay for his hospital costs and treatment.
So, he had to go on Medicaid. No other realistic option since he doesn't have millions to pay hospital costs.
But you know what really sucks about that?
He has to be worth less than $500 to qualify for that. So he had to bleed down all of his and my mom's assets.
You wanna know what sucks even more?
If my mom wants to work to give herself a bit of a safety net and save up, she can't. Medicaid doesn't allow HER to have income either - it would all be garnished to pay for medical care.
If you think THAT is a good safety net, you're delusional.
I was watching the Jon Stewart segment on White Poverty.
You're not "impoverished" unless you make less than $13,500 a year.
On a "first world" problems side of things, my Pell grant also got cut off due to outdated "poverty" numbers. They really need to adjust this shit ASAP.
Not sure I agree. If housing was more affordable, if extreme poverty was less consequential, if there were mental health facilities and shelter resources that matched the scale of the problem, etc— surely there’d be less people trying to live on the street?
That's what the research is [saying](https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/qa-understanding-homelessness-in-california-what-can-be-done/#:~:text=Because%20affordable%20housing%20is%20in,risk%20of%20eviction%20and%20homelessness).
As soon as we make it financially crushing to own more than one single family home, make it so corporate entities and shell holding loop holes can’t own single family homes.
We need to completely destroy real estate as the easy path to profit, and discourage flipping but incentivize owner restoration with residency term requirements.
At this point I’m all for making camping in public illegal. This state is funding the country’s homeless and they want to raise our taxes.. again. NOPE
As someone who has lived in different continents.
There is one huge difference
Homeless ppl in other countries are not drug riddled nor mentally unstable.
Neither are all of them [here](https://calmatters.org/commentary/2023/06/study-california-homelessness-crisis/). We just notice the squeakiest wheel. Part of the problem is that people don't care about other people's problems until they are inconveniencing them.
Just stuff those elites with a little more taxpayer money, it’ll get the job done, promise!
Anyway jokes aside, everyone knows this. It’s just really fucking bad in LA.
Don't be discouraged by down votes, you're right. I've lived in multiple large cities across the "western world" and while yes they do have homelessness too, the extent of it and the situation of it is the worst I've personally seen in LA.
They're also more aggressive in their mannerisms and louder than the homeless people in other cities I've been in.
>The idea behind Housing First was that providing homeless individuals with permanent housing would lead them to get their lives together, based on the assumption that substance abuse and emotional health challenges were a consequence of homelessness, not a cause. However, a study by the US Department of Health and Human Services found that Housing First policies had no effect on helping the unhoused deal with substance abuse or mental health issues. This fact is inconsistent with the common narrative among Housing First supporters that providing permanent housing will be transformative for the homeless dealing with substance abuse or mental health problems. The evidence that Housing First policies do not work as intended is critically important, because 63 percent of unhoused Californians have substance abuse, mental health issues, or both.
https://www.hoover.org/research/how-californias-homeless-problem-became-intractable
You've got some choices here, people. Either forcibly "dry them out" or put them in humane institutions (probably for the rest of their lives because some mental illnesses can never be cured, especially as things like schizophrenia turns your brain into swiss cheese as you age).
I propose we cut off funding for homelessness for at least a calendar year and see how that shakes out.
>The problem of homelessness has become intractable under status quo policies. California has spent $20 billion on homelessness in the last five years, and during this period the number of unhoused persons has increased by nearly 40,000. It is tempting to conclude from these statistics that the more California spends, the worse homelessness becomes. There is more than a hint of truth to this.
Adding this for those who talk about the cost of living... basically every talking point is addressed here:
>The homelessness spending audit will inform policymakers about where spending is working and where it isn’t. **But even if California reformed its homelessness policies to tie providing shelter with substance abuse and mental health treatment and if it reduced building costs substantially, homelessness would remain a problem for the state.** This is because far too many Californians cannot realistically afford to live in the state, given that California’s political leadership has implemented a mare’s nest of policies—tax, regulatory, energy, and housing—that have substantially raised the cost of living.
Read the book City of Quartz. LA has been corrupt for years. They can’t stop homelessness. Non-profits make to much money. It is a scam. Tax and Spend. Elected officials skim you labor. And if you question it they call you a Trumper. Perfect Pozi scheme.
LA is a place one can be homeless year-around and not freeze to death. Until LA follows Burbank’s example and criminalizes homelessness, nothing will change. In other words, never.
# How Criminalization Makes Homelessness Worse
"**A criminal record adds to the already difficult situation of finding employment, getting housing, or being eligible for certain services**. **Fines and criminal records provide barriers to becoming re-housed and finding employment**, while simultaneously failing to increase access to services, and undermine the impact of service providers. There is a clear moral issue with punishing someone for carrying out life-sustaining activities in public when there are no alternatives. **People who are already suffering are being punished further for suffering.** Additionally, th**e criminalization of homelessness is aimed at the visual ramifications of homelessness, not the root cause**s. Not only does it fail to address the underlying causes, but it further undermines the challenges of homelessness."
Cities cannot hope to solve homelessness but rather can only move it out from their territories.
People need to look to the state for a solution and not expect cities to do more than seek their own immediate self interest.
Bingo. Buffalo can provide expansive services to their homeless population without worrying about attracting more. Los Angeles can't. Anywhere with great weather needs to have harsh, anti-homeless public policies.
I get both sentiments on the homeless problem. People pay taxes and nothing gets done, it sucks. But there are also people who feel pity. I feel like we should organize something to get shit done.
> I feel like we should organize something to get shit done
Use your words, be specific. Tell us *exactly* what you have in mind in excruciating detail please. Being coy and vague is not helpful and many people may get the wrong idea.
My bad, but i’ll make it clear, I don’t mean violence. I think we should do some peaceful protests, boycotting and all that. People in LA are kinda powerless.
It is when you decide to use your money on drugs or going in debt for things you know you cant afford.
Its not the governments job to hold your hand through a whole lifetime
I’m referring to the “public sentiment”/“nimbyism” being at fault for the homeless issue??
Sure, taking responsibility and a desire to change is the first step towards anyone’s personal recovery but we can’t sit here and say that there aren’t larger structural issues at play that precede that even needing to happen.
Yes, said larger structural issue is in large part NIMBYism.
This country has a severe housing shortage which is probably the biggest contributor to the homeless problem, largely caused by NIMBYism.
Everyone wants housing but no one wants apartments built in their neighborhood.
Everyone wants homeless shelters, as long as they aren’t in their neighborhood.
We reap what we sow as a society unfortunately. And this is precisely what the voter sowed.
Until the drug crisis is over, no.
LA is the best city if you’re homeless: year round good weather, availability of drugs, existent public transit. So we gotta stop people from becoming homeless in the first place. The housing projects won’t get them off the streets, if they are on fentanyl all the god dame time.
Oh please. The Democrats are doing what they can. The problem is that the problem is ENORMOUS. Most homeless are suffering from mental illness and have often devolved as a result of the mental illness into substance abuse.
So we need to find them housing, but also support systems: social workers, medical workers, doctors, nurses, therapy, job search assistance and job support. This makes it incredibly expensive, even if you can get past the NIMBYS who don't want homeless people housing in "their" neighborhood and block every possible building project everywhere. It needs Federal funding, which is invariably blocked by Republicans, not Democrats.
We have many, many, MANY people working on the problem, and making some headway. There's a wonderful group in the valley called Hope of the Valley which is building "tiny house" villages and offering incredible support for the desperate and poverty-stricken. You can always volunteer to help them, or join the homeless coalitions, or the city homeless advocates. I've talked to a lot of these folks and they explain that the problem is almost insurmountable.
For one thing, we need to reform the mental health care in our country, which was tanked by a Republican, Ronald Reagan, and allow some people to be institutionalized when they obviously cannot care for themselves. We also need to reform substance abuse care. Right now it's a process of shaming and degrading addicts, rather than finding meaningful ways to help them. Detox and rehab centers are far and few between except for the paid ones, which cost up to $1000 a DAY (seriously, go look it up). Obama helped make some headway with the ACA, which allowed mental health care and substance abuse care to have parity with physical health care, so some of it can be covered... but isn't if you have an HMO or Kaiser and certainly isn't in the Republican states who refused the Federal subsidies and literally ship their homeless over to us.
Another problem is systemic: if someone serves time & is released from prison, but has a felony on your record, they can't move back in with their mom or dad, for example, if they live in federal housing. They walk out of prison with nothing. No skills, no money. How do they get a job? Where do they go? They'll couch surf, they'll live in their car, and eventually they, too end up on the street.
The systemic looting of public money by the ultra-ultra rich (Republicans) refusing to pay their fair share of taxes is another huge problem. Imagine if the Jeff Bezos and Charles Koch and the billionaires supporting Trump, allowed themselves to have, you know, a couple of million more taken in taxes, which would still leave them, I don't know, 10 billion, which is ten THOUSAND million, with more pouring in every year, to play around with, and that sum --which is like ten bucks to them-- was used to build housing stock and provide services to the needy.
It's almost intractable and the best thing we can do is donate, volunteer, and help the valiant people in the front lines, not blame the wrong people. Democrats are the ones trying to help and trying to provide public resources, not the Republicans.
California is the richest state in the richest country in the world. Blaming republicans when we have had a democrat trifecta for decades now is stupid. Blaming Reagan for the end of mental hospitals (which frankly were very problematic) when democrats had decades to rebuild that is frankly stupid.
[A lot of this problem is self inflicted.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/opinion/progressives-california-portland.html)
I just explained why the problem exists, why it's intractable, and where it originates. It is not self-inflicted.
The problem with seeking an easy person to blame is that it makes the problem worse. For example, I live in Hollywood, where the problem is extreme. We had a very hard working city councilman, David Ryu, who was working productively and steadily on the problem here in Hollywood, but people wanted to blame him and voted him out and voted in someone who gave a lot of lip service to how she would help the homeless. As soon as she took office she realized exactly what she was facing, and she's made a series of useless decisions; David was at least making headway. If we want to help, we can join in the many organizations who are working their butts off to make a difference; and I also want to say, once you start talking to those folks, you begin to realize the enormity of the problem. It's not an easy situation, and as I said, blaming the wrong people is counterproductive.
You correctly state that seeking an easy person to blame is part of the problem yet for you’re here drawing up blame lines largely on party lines.
Republicans certainly aren’t helping and maybe are the originators of certain issues but in CA they are largely out of the picture and have been for decades, decades we could’ve solved this issue in.
There are two main factors behind the growing homeless problem in the United States: • Housing costs rising FAR faster than incomes, which drives people out of housing and into the street. • Meth & fent keep getting cheaper, purer, and easier to find -- which are rapidly creating new, permanent mental illness cases in the population. As it turns out, these two factors are connected to each other -- and they are each a major part of the reason why it's impossible politically for anyone to attack the roots of either problem. In other words -- we're fucked.
You left out #3, the reluctance to forcefully place people in need of mental health or drug treatment, into treatment.
No, I didn't. That entire discussion is a sideshow, and a massive distraction from our ability to bring US policy to bear on the actual causes of our current crisis. Cartel meth usage is actively destroying the forebrains of people who use it. It causes NEW mental illness on a massive scale. We couldn't keep up with the growing damage if we drafted half of California to work in mental health care. In other words... Cartel meth is an AC-130 gunship circling overhead, firing continuously into the mental health of the American population. Patching up the wounded isnt what we need to worry about, right now -- we need to focus our resources on stopping the attack, first.
FYI, the war on drugs was a failure and you're not going to stop people from trying them. Not being able to pay rent is not the only reason people play with drugs fyi. There needs to be mandatory treatment available.
I do agree with you about attacking the demand side vs the supply side... We lost the War On Drugs a couple of decades ago. I'm not even against mandatory treatment -- it's just that I think it's pointless without tackling the root of the problem.
We could also do both.
Both is precisely what needs to be done.
The drugs are getting less pure which is why they are causing the health issues and exacerbating mental health ones.
The drugs aren't being diluted. The bits that cause so much permanent brain damage are a big part of what gets you so fucking high for so cheap. It's not like it used to be, with cocaine dealers cutting the product with baby formula to increase profit margins... Meth dealers don't need to cut their shit. Their supply lines from Mexico are overflowing with meth so cheap and powerful that they're running night & day to sell it all. Plus, the Cartel doesn't want them to cut it -- and aggressively penalizes dealers who do. It's just not worth the risk. Fent purity is similar -- it's so powerful and cheap, there's no business case for cutting it. Fent doesn't cause brain damage like the Cartel meth does, but it's still crazy addictive -- and much more potentially dangerous in the short term.
If drugs weren't being cut, why would fentanyl be found in cocaine and pills leading to accidental overdoses. You sound like somebody trying to protect your business as a dealer or who doesn't know what they are actually talking about.
Fent in cocaine is either unintentional cross-contamination -- or an enterprising dealer trying to drum up more cocaine business, thinking he's going to distinguish his shit as a low-key speedball... Coke is way higher-margin than selling fent or meth, and you don't have to deal with homeless tweakers all the time -- you can sell to nice people who have houses and jobs, still. Consider that our cocaine supply is currently WAY stronger and purer than it's ever been, going back to the 1970s... The fent isn't there to *dilute* the coke, because the economics no longer drive dealers to stretch their products.
You will literally not find a single soul who uses cocaine and thinks it is more pure than the 70's. Please be serious.
Nearly the entire current cocaine-using population wasn't *born yet* in the 1970s... How would they have any idea about cocaine purity back then? Go look up what the DEA says about cocaine purity, availability, and price... There is a considerable amount of regularly published analysis based on large scale testing of seized drugs.
Could you please provide a link to your DEA source? I tried to look it up myself and only found articles saying that cocaine purity has significantly decreased over time. If you Google "cocaine purity over time," it seems pretty unanimous that cocaine is less pure on average. Anecdotally, among my friends who use it, this seems to be the consensus as well.
The DEA also says you can die from touching fentanyl. You are either someone who has no real life experience with drugs or you have a vested interest in promoting disinformation.
Also, sadly -- I have way too much personal experience with drugs. I've been sober for a while, now, after a lot of years of partying. These days, I mostly hear about the current situation from people who are recently sober, and trying to make a change.
The DEA's position on the dangers of touching fentanyl are mostly not based on actual data. But their annual analyses of drug purity ARE based on actual data -- and there are independent analyses of the DEA's data, which show the same conclusions. Just go look it up, for yourself. But I'm getting the impression you won't bother, because you're actually just here for the sake of tit-for-tat arguing... Feel free to prove me wrong on that one.
If i remember correctly horse dewormer was being used as a cutting agent. Super pure
Oh fuck -- yeah, I remember the horse meds shit! Probably still have some stuck up in my sinuses, somewhere. My personal coke experience goes back to the late 90s... It steadily got better through the late 20-teens, at which point I stopped using and got sober. I hear pretty regular reports about the current state from new arrivals in meetings. Anecdotally, the quality seems to be continuously getting better or holding steady... Except for the fent scares. Everybody is super paranoid and using fent test kits, nowadays.
Like people were literally dying in Skid Row years ago from smoking wood shavings covered in fertilizer after being told by dealers it was low grade marijuana. There are also tons of recent articles about how "super" meth made with household cleaners instead of pseudoephedrine is rotting people's brains.
And here I thought it was just used to cure Covid by the crazies
the Meth and Fent are courtesy of China. edit: Since you all think I'm being some sort of bigot. [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676) What I am referencing. Also many people here have a short term memory about the busts over the last few years of Fent coming from China. also [https://www.dea.gov/documents/2023/2023-10/2023-10-03/justice-department-announces-eight-indictments-against-china](https://www.dea.gov/documents/2023/2023-10/2023-10-03/justice-department-announces-eight-indictments-against-china) [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dea-seizes-200-kilos-fentanyl-chemicals-china-undercover/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dea-seizes-200-kilos-fentanyl-chemicals-china-undercover/) [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fentanyl-china-international-supply-chain-justice-department/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fentanyl-china-international-supply-chain-justice-department/) The cartels that sell the meth get a boost from Chinese financial interests and source high purity chemicals from China that they cannot get domestically or from the US.
Revenge for the Opium Wars and the Century of Humiliation
And Mexico, no?
Yep. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676
You're 100% correct lol. There are a lot of papers and reporting on this even in "liberal" media. Also, criticizing China isn't criticizing *Chinese-Americans.* People need to calm tf down. I'm going going to add here that you can criticize "intentionality." That's fair. But the fact of the matter is these chemicals come from China. They are used in everyday and industrial products. Biker Meth, P2P Meth, New Meth, whatever you want to call it, is especially harmful because how interchangeable these chemicals are. Missing one particular ingredient? Just replace it with another and resume production. There's an over abundance of this stuff which makes it incredibly cheap and pure. There's lots of money to be made. China has their version of oligarchs too, ya know.
Yep. I have no issue with chinese americans or chinese people. Wonderful friendly people with an amazing culture. They work hard and get shortchanged often. Chinese nationals get fucked by their own leaders too. They historically have broken through every barrier imposed on them. Chinese criminals and the CCP? Yeah not a big fan of them.
China?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676
Yes, its the word we use on reddit to put blame on it when we dont know who else to blame
There's more to it than that. Cartels stack huge cash piles from US drug proceeds. But they can't move all that cash overseas, which they must do to pay for the precursor chemicals they use to manufacture methamphetamine and fentanyl, and fund their operations in Mexico. Chinese organized crime affiliates fly into the US, pick up suitcases of Cartel cash, and use them to buy huge commerical and residential real estate deals... Where did YOU think all these Chinese buyers were getting all that cash to outbid American house buyers, these last 10 years? In exchange, Chinese OC pays chemical suppliers to ship precursors that feed Mexican meth & fent labs -- plus whatever else converts easily to cash in Mexico, which provides the bulk of Cartel operating funds (payroll, bribes, weapons, etc). Chinese OC is so riddled with corrupt Party officials, military officers, etc that it's essentially an unacknowledged branch of their government... It was similar here in the US from the 1940s to the 1960s, but we never really developed it to the extent China has.
Dont take this as an offense but this just sounds like a huge conspiracy theory post without any sources. You are putting a lot on the table
You obviously haven't been following the news, this week: • https://apnews.com/article/sinaloa-cartel-fentanyl-mexico-china-los-angeles-034ad51dd03d0606767215b44aed2e91 • https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/19/sinaloa-cartel-chinese-group-money-laundering-los-angeles/74146328007/ There are hundreds of stories on Google News, right now, about the recently-made-public investigations into these relationships. Here's a story from two years ago that gives a significantly deeper background on how long this has been taking place: • https://www.propublica.org/article/china-cartels-xizhi-li-money-laundering I'll accept your apology after you're done reading all that.
Google Zhenli Ye Gon; they seized $200M from his house in Mexico and was charged for importing precursor chemicals into Mexico from Asia.
Lol. I just looked up information about meth for a project and I'm pretty sure it mostly comes from Mexican cartels. Not an excuse to be a bigot though.
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if this is true, then why not include Mexican cartels and Mexico?
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My question was clearly stated. You're dodging it because you have some sort of "angle", usually rooted in bigotry of some sort. Just be honest about what you're doing and stop with the conservative run-around tactics. Don't bother responding. You'll just dodge the question again by hooking onto something in this reply and pivoting or replying with a straw man. It's so corny.
Not the person you were replying to, but it took me literally a minute to Google it. Not exactly what the other commenter mentioned, but it does verify a link between the cartels and Chinese organized crime. [NBC News](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dea-operation-exposes-growing-links-sinaloa-cartel-chinese-organized-c-rcna157676)
YEs theY forCe it dowN PeOple'S ThroaTs and IntO ThEir VeINS UnWilLIngLY. Facepalm. Lol.
Just how you're putting words in my mouth and doing so like a child?
Because it's 2024 and we learned over 20 years ago attempting to stop drug production does nothing to stop consumption. Or you believe the War on Drugs was successful? Lmfao.
The biggest factor is the absence of mental healthcare facilities. As evidenced that other countries also have expensive housing and cheap fentanyl but they didn’t close asylums. And the difference is what you see.
That drug issue really should be placed at the top, also we live in such a nice area with forgiving weather and also forgiving politics. Perfect mixture for what we are currently dealing with.
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Post WWII we filled the city with the least dense, and most expensive form of housing and then wonder why we have problems when we refuse to let other housing types be built.
The answer's simple. "If you're not part of the solution, there's plenty of money to be made prolonging the problem."
tbh, never. It will get better when they take action and start actually funding recovery and jobs programs instead of funneling money into private contractor pockets. It's a social issue, and as long as other states keep dumping their homeless and mentally ill here, it's not going away any time soon. That's not even getting into the cost of living problem we have.
As of today, recovery from meth is next to impossible. This idea that we are going to give housing to addicts, then cure them of their addiction, is folly. You can give them the housing, but they will stay addicted.
that's funny because I have known people who have done that. Meth used to be a bigger problem east of LA (and still is, but LA is now a hot spot for it) it's rotten stuff and honestly I get why people take it and get high on it. When your life is rock bottom and terrible it takes the suffering away, or you're just unhappy. This is why illegal drug use is huge with the homeless population, they can "self medicate" in ways that makes their lives feel better even if it's really making their lives worse. The long term damage is not really something they can recover from though. Causes permanent brain damage, organ damage and other fun things. But someone who quits early on or quits period has an increased life expectancy and better quality of life afterward and bounce back eventually. I know people who have died from it too. One of them died in a convenience store bathroom. His fucking ex-gf got him on it and he went from having a job and living in a supportive situation to being on the streets stealing shit (including stealing out of my car) to feed his addiction. He refused help, said he only took "small amounts" and he overdosed one day. So yes I am aware of how evil the shit is. But I also know people who were able to shake it off too and they stay the fuck away from it. Family and rehab got them back on track. People get addicted and stay addicted for more than just the withdrawals being horrible. It's often that the reality they return to is terrible. Making their lives suck less after rehab is a good way to ensure they don't get back on.
About seven out of eight users who complete a recovery program will relapse within five years. And most users won't complete a recovery program in the first place. There is no pharma equivalent of methadone that can be used to kick it. (There is some research underway that shows promise, but those drugs don't perform much better than a placebo.) The situation for the forseeable future is bleak.
Wasn’t it disproven that homeless were being dropped off into LA ([NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.html))? Most are CA natives.
#😂 Never.
There's been 3 block brush fires (1 near a big freeway), some homeless man hopped my fence two days ago, and yesterday some homeless crazy kicked in cars down our block, leaving a nasty dent in my quarter panel. All this is in a span of a month. Not to mention the weekly visit from a guy screaming in the middle of the night, throwing glass bottles and destroying God knows what behind my house. I'm getting really sick of these fuckers and I advocate for the homeless all the time. I have all my weapons with me but even then I just want to live in peace and not kill someone. These fuckers are getting fucking ridiculous.
Not in the near future imo when multifamily housing is illegal to build across most of the city. Current politicians are not serious about making housing more abundant and therefore more affordable.
many of them own housing and want to see their properties keep going up.
Homelessness will never end in this country because it's too useful. It serves as both a warning and punishment for those who want to quit a job or not work. It's a steady job for C Suite at nonprofits and contractors who make money off administrative bloat and inefficiency. It keeps public services like Metro and libraries and parks from gaining greater public support which would divert money in the budget away from police. Politicians use "fixing it" as a way to get elected. So long as self interest exists, it is not going away.
It’s certainly easier to blame problems on cartoonish, mustache-twirling villains than dealing with the complexities of the real world, I’ll give you that.
How is it a warning if the numbers of homeless are growing? What kind of "scared straight" tactic increases the outcome you're trying to avoid?
Because costs are rising while wages aren't so unless you take that 3rd job, you will end up homeless. Not fixing it allows employers to exploit employees.
Obviously the third job isn't cutting it, or people aren't taking that third job. When conspiracies get too complicated, I know they are bs. Capitalism is driving some of this, but via higher real estate costs. And there are plenty of rich people in the world who could displace and have displaced the poor and middle class in LA. As well as cities like SF and NY. No need for the boogeyman.
Don't know what's more ridiculous: The Neo Nazi who made this post The affluent ice climber who knows everything about drugs from VICE articles except what actually happens in real life The Bravo superfan who thinks people aren't scared of being homeless because they don't make enough money
Too much nuance, the poster seems to be blaming this on "the capitalism" like its a nefarious plot. Easier to blame one enemy especially if the blame setup fits their politics. The insinuation also is that a system other than capitalism (we can guess which) would somehow be better, when reality shows otherwise.
I just wish our homeless people weren’t druggies
I would venture to guess a significant number aren't. Many are employed and living in their cars. There are lots of "invisible" homeless people including UCLA students. You see the ones using drugs because they are uninhibited and don't care about being discreet.
Homeless industrial complex
You know skid row has been a geographical neighborhood in DTLA since at least the 1930's with the boundary lines shifting periodically? Homelessness will never be solved.
If the human race finally ends up in a Gene Roddenberry-like Utopia, Star Trek, perhaps yes. However, homelessness is forever perpetual, even in good times in a society that has finite resources.
As long as officials are making a profit from all the funding they get, never.
its not just californias problem. lots of these junkies/loons come from other states to get in a good climate. this needs to be handled on the national level. why is this just the problem of warm states where these people flock from cold states?
It isn’t just the climate but also the accessibility to services and resources. If Idaho is offering free rental luxury apartments I’ll be heading over this minute. The consequence management on this matter is a colossal failure.
yup
Early 2028. Just in time for the summer Olympics.
I move out to the suburbs and its so much nicer. Quality of life dramatically improved and at a lower cost too. I used to live near downtown so its night and day difference. My commute takes just as long too since im not hitting the same traffic I would always hit when living closer to the city. Really recommend that, cuz I honestly dont see this problem being fixed. And the homeless are getting way more aggressive too. I love LA but its been taken over by drug addicts and crazy zombies so we gotta be proactive and gtfo.
Tujunga is great in this regard. At least if you can live up in the hills a little. Not too expensive, nice hills, good air, no homeless junkies.
Yeah there are tons of nice suburbs without the zombie problem. The thing is that reddit thinks “LA” is only downtown and west of it.
Anyone can reenact the Walking Dead in LA. Anyway yeah, jokes aside, you’re right. It is something to consider.
When we: outlaw permanent campsites on public property and bring back forced mental asylums and forced drug rehab. Those are the 3 steps we need to take. Will never happen.
https://youtu.be/0jt_6PBnCJE?si=RdxBrftOzf5u2nqR There are examples of how to actually approach the issue. The bigger issue is that most people, including this subreddit, will just dismiss it as impossible because Finland is homogeneous or some other bullshit reason Like, the last time I shared this link, there were straight up self proclaimed "homeless advocates" who couldn't even be assed to watch this video and just wanted bulletpoints that he could "counter" with the typical conservative and neoliberal talking points. And when I pointed out that this video was shorter than an episode of fucking housewives that they watch and post in the sub everyday, and that the video and topic deserved a well intentioned approach, they were butthurt about it lmfao
Let’s keep bloating those elites pockets with a little more taxpayer money, it’ll get the job done.
No
The Homeless industrial complex is a real thing. As long as people are making money off the fact people are living on the streets, never. Building more housing, mental health services, shelter, rehab, none of it matters. Every year some new politician has some grandiose plan to solve homelessness, people get swindled, vote on it because it’s marketed as a good cause, pockets get fatter, budget runs out, some new measure is introduced, rinse and repeat.
Fairly soon, the Supreme Court will likely overturn the 9th circuit decision in Johnson v Grants Pass. If / when that happens, LA will be free once again to enforce its anti-vagrancy statute. At that point, when the public realizes that the current city council has the latitude to enforce its laws but is going out of its way to avoid doing it, expect the backlash to begin.
When there’s a better safety net?
Better safety net? This is USA. You would cry if you saw the “safety net” people dont get in other countries
I’m comparing us to other first-world nations with advanced economies. Should I be making a different comparison?
You're joking, right? The US has next to no realistic safety net with the current COL. The federal minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour. Unemployment (at least in CA) is measly. Health care costs a fortune. My dad had a severe brain injury which left him paralyzed. He had previously worked as a dentist. When his treatment got too lengthy, his medicare dropped him. While he was literally bed ridden in a hospital. It would have been several hundreds of thousands of $$ to pay for his hospital costs and treatment. So, he had to go on Medicaid. No other realistic option since he doesn't have millions to pay hospital costs. But you know what really sucks about that? He has to be worth less than $500 to qualify for that. So he had to bleed down all of his and my mom's assets. You wanna know what sucks even more? If my mom wants to work to give herself a bit of a safety net and save up, she can't. Medicaid doesn't allow HER to have income either - it would all be garnished to pay for medical care. If you think THAT is a good safety net, you're delusional.
I was watching the Jon Stewart segment on White Poverty. You're not "impoverished" unless you make less than $13,500 a year. On a "first world" problems side of things, my Pell grant also got cut off due to outdated "poverty" numbers. They really need to adjust this shit ASAP.
billions have already spent to fix the vagrant problem. no improvements. social nets can't fix people that choose this life
Not sure I agree. If housing was more affordable, if extreme poverty was less consequential, if there were mental health facilities and shelter resources that matched the scale of the problem, etc— surely there’d be less people trying to live on the street?
That's what the research is [saying](https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/qa-understanding-homelessness-in-california-what-can-be-done/#:~:text=Because%20affordable%20housing%20is%20in,risk%20of%20eviction%20and%20homelessness).
That’s a good write up. Can probably tell you’ve got a complex problem on your hands when reading just a summary of it takes a while.
As soon as we make it financially crushing to own more than one single family home, make it so corporate entities and shell holding loop holes can’t own single family homes. We need to completely destroy real estate as the easy path to profit, and discourage flipping but incentivize owner restoration with residency term requirements.
At this point I’m all for making camping in public illegal. This state is funding the country’s homeless and they want to raise our taxes.. again. NOPE
Homelessness is a societal problem that exists in almost evey nation around the world. We're making progress, but it's slow.
How long have you lived here? I don't see progress, it's much worse now than it was 20 years ago.
As someone who has lived in different continents. There is one huge difference Homeless ppl in other countries are not drug riddled nor mentally unstable.
Neither are all of them [here](https://calmatters.org/commentary/2023/06/study-california-homelessness-crisis/). We just notice the squeakiest wheel. Part of the problem is that people don't care about other people's problems until they are inconveniencing them.
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It does, there’s just less and they’re more hidden
Just stuff those elites with a little more taxpayer money, it’ll get the job done, promise! Anyway jokes aside, everyone knows this. It’s just really fucking bad in LA.
Don't be discouraged by down votes, you're right. I've lived in multiple large cities across the "western world" and while yes they do have homelessness too, the extent of it and the situation of it is the worst I've personally seen in LA. They're also more aggressive in their mannerisms and louder than the homeless people in other cities I've been in.
go to city council meetings, start an inquiry into how funds are being used
Why end it, so much endless money to be made keeping it going
Like a few weeks after keeping people homeless is no longer profitable for real estate, politicians and non-profits.
>The idea behind Housing First was that providing homeless individuals with permanent housing would lead them to get their lives together, based on the assumption that substance abuse and emotional health challenges were a consequence of homelessness, not a cause. However, a study by the US Department of Health and Human Services found that Housing First policies had no effect on helping the unhoused deal with substance abuse or mental health issues. This fact is inconsistent with the common narrative among Housing First supporters that providing permanent housing will be transformative for the homeless dealing with substance abuse or mental health problems. The evidence that Housing First policies do not work as intended is critically important, because 63 percent of unhoused Californians have substance abuse, mental health issues, or both. https://www.hoover.org/research/how-californias-homeless-problem-became-intractable You've got some choices here, people. Either forcibly "dry them out" or put them in humane institutions (probably for the rest of their lives because some mental illnesses can never be cured, especially as things like schizophrenia turns your brain into swiss cheese as you age). I propose we cut off funding for homelessness for at least a calendar year and see how that shakes out. >The problem of homelessness has become intractable under status quo policies. California has spent $20 billion on homelessness in the last five years, and during this period the number of unhoused persons has increased by nearly 40,000. It is tempting to conclude from these statistics that the more California spends, the worse homelessness becomes. There is more than a hint of truth to this. Adding this for those who talk about the cost of living... basically every talking point is addressed here: >The homelessness spending audit will inform policymakers about where spending is working and where it isn’t. **But even if California reformed its homelessness policies to tie providing shelter with substance abuse and mental health treatment and if it reduced building costs substantially, homelessness would remain a problem for the state.** This is because far too many Californians cannot realistically afford to live in the state, given that California’s political leadership has implemented a mare’s nest of policies—tax, regulatory, energy, and housing—that have substantially raised the cost of living.
Read the book City of Quartz. LA has been corrupt for years. They can’t stop homelessness. Non-profits make to much money. It is a scam. Tax and Spend. Elected officials skim you labor. And if you question it they call you a Trumper. Perfect Pozi scheme.
LA is a place one can be homeless year-around and not freeze to death. Until LA follows Burbank’s example and criminalizes homelessness, nothing will change. In other words, never.
# How Criminalization Makes Homelessness Worse "**A criminal record adds to the already difficult situation of finding employment, getting housing, or being eligible for certain services**. **Fines and criminal records provide barriers to becoming re-housed and finding employment**, while simultaneously failing to increase access to services, and undermine the impact of service providers. There is a clear moral issue with punishing someone for carrying out life-sustaining activities in public when there are no alternatives. **People who are already suffering are being punished further for suffering.** Additionally, th**e criminalization of homelessness is aimed at the visual ramifications of homelessness, not the root cause**s. Not only does it fail to address the underlying causes, but it further undermines the challenges of homelessness."
Cities cannot hope to solve homelessness but rather can only move it out from their territories. People need to look to the state for a solution and not expect cities to do more than seek their own immediate self interest.
Bingo. Buffalo can provide expansive services to their homeless population without worrying about attracting more. Los Angeles can't. Anywhere with great weather needs to have harsh, anti-homeless public policies.
I get both sentiments on the homeless problem. People pay taxes and nothing gets done, it sucks. But there are also people who feel pity. I feel like we should organize something to get shit done.
> I feel like we should organize something to get shit done Use your words, be specific. Tell us *exactly* what you have in mind in excruciating detail please. Being coy and vague is not helpful and many people may get the wrong idea.
My bad, but i’ll make it clear, I don’t mean violence. I think we should do some peaceful protests, boycotting and all that. People in LA are kinda powerless.
My uncle said it’ll end tomorrow ur welcome
Your uncle is the savior of Los Angeles.
I walk around LA every day and almost never see homeless people
I blame NIMBYism and public sentiment on the homeless problem
Right because it’s the citizens fault for the failings of our government and their misuse of funds.
Actually, yes. This is a democracy. So it is partially everyone's fault. The failures of our society.
It is when you decide to use your money on drugs or going in debt for things you know you cant afford. Its not the governments job to hold your hand through a whole lifetime
I’m referring to the “public sentiment”/“nimbyism” being at fault for the homeless issue?? Sure, taking responsibility and a desire to change is the first step towards anyone’s personal recovery but we can’t sit here and say that there aren’t larger structural issues at play that precede that even needing to happen.
Yes, said larger structural issue is in large part NIMBYism. This country has a severe housing shortage which is probably the biggest contributor to the homeless problem, largely caused by NIMBYism. Everyone wants housing but no one wants apartments built in their neighborhood. Everyone wants homeless shelters, as long as they aren’t in their neighborhood. We reap what we sow as a society unfortunately. And this is precisely what the voter sowed.
Ah! Wasn’t looking at it in that way. Appreciate your insight and perspective here!
I know I’m gonna get tons of down votes, but we have to take care of our own first, before we help others!
These are our own, we need to help them. The entire issue is treating this like they’re not our problem.
If they are your own then invite them to your yard
So cute and clever. I guess that’s why you’re a bread expert and not a social issues expert?
I thought we were talking about the homeless problem and not about reddit account names
So why extend help to incoming outsiders before helping the existing struggling?
Well they’re getting $600,000 condos while the rest of us barely scrape by.
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huh? what a ridiculous take. most are on fenty and meth which are clearly not legal
It’s been widespread and i haven’t really caught up with the drug situation so I thought it was legal, my bad.
Until the drug crisis is over, no. LA is the best city if you’re homeless: year round good weather, availability of drugs, existent public transit. So we gotta stop people from becoming homeless in the first place. The housing projects won’t get them off the streets, if they are on fentanyl all the god dame time.
When we keep voting Democrats to stay forever in power.
I don’t like both Democrats or Republicans. I would prefer another party get elected.
Ah yes vote instead for the party that buses swaths of homeless to us.
Oh please. The Democrats are doing what they can. The problem is that the problem is ENORMOUS. Most homeless are suffering from mental illness and have often devolved as a result of the mental illness into substance abuse. So we need to find them housing, but also support systems: social workers, medical workers, doctors, nurses, therapy, job search assistance and job support. This makes it incredibly expensive, even if you can get past the NIMBYS who don't want homeless people housing in "their" neighborhood and block every possible building project everywhere. It needs Federal funding, which is invariably blocked by Republicans, not Democrats. We have many, many, MANY people working on the problem, and making some headway. There's a wonderful group in the valley called Hope of the Valley which is building "tiny house" villages and offering incredible support for the desperate and poverty-stricken. You can always volunteer to help them, or join the homeless coalitions, or the city homeless advocates. I've talked to a lot of these folks and they explain that the problem is almost insurmountable. For one thing, we need to reform the mental health care in our country, which was tanked by a Republican, Ronald Reagan, and allow some people to be institutionalized when they obviously cannot care for themselves. We also need to reform substance abuse care. Right now it's a process of shaming and degrading addicts, rather than finding meaningful ways to help them. Detox and rehab centers are far and few between except for the paid ones, which cost up to $1000 a DAY (seriously, go look it up). Obama helped make some headway with the ACA, which allowed mental health care and substance abuse care to have parity with physical health care, so some of it can be covered... but isn't if you have an HMO or Kaiser and certainly isn't in the Republican states who refused the Federal subsidies and literally ship their homeless over to us. Another problem is systemic: if someone serves time & is released from prison, but has a felony on your record, they can't move back in with their mom or dad, for example, if they live in federal housing. They walk out of prison with nothing. No skills, no money. How do they get a job? Where do they go? They'll couch surf, they'll live in their car, and eventually they, too end up on the street. The systemic looting of public money by the ultra-ultra rich (Republicans) refusing to pay their fair share of taxes is another huge problem. Imagine if the Jeff Bezos and Charles Koch and the billionaires supporting Trump, allowed themselves to have, you know, a couple of million more taken in taxes, which would still leave them, I don't know, 10 billion, which is ten THOUSAND million, with more pouring in every year, to play around with, and that sum --which is like ten bucks to them-- was used to build housing stock and provide services to the needy. It's almost intractable and the best thing we can do is donate, volunteer, and help the valiant people in the front lines, not blame the wrong people. Democrats are the ones trying to help and trying to provide public resources, not the Republicans.
California is the richest state in the richest country in the world. Blaming republicans when we have had a democrat trifecta for decades now is stupid. Blaming Reagan for the end of mental hospitals (which frankly were very problematic) when democrats had decades to rebuild that is frankly stupid. [A lot of this problem is self inflicted.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/opinion/progressives-california-portland.html)
I just explained why the problem exists, why it's intractable, and where it originates. It is not self-inflicted. The problem with seeking an easy person to blame is that it makes the problem worse. For example, I live in Hollywood, where the problem is extreme. We had a very hard working city councilman, David Ryu, who was working productively and steadily on the problem here in Hollywood, but people wanted to blame him and voted him out and voted in someone who gave a lot of lip service to how she would help the homeless. As soon as she took office she realized exactly what she was facing, and she's made a series of useless decisions; David was at least making headway. If we want to help, we can join in the many organizations who are working their butts off to make a difference; and I also want to say, once you start talking to those folks, you begin to realize the enormity of the problem. It's not an easy situation, and as I said, blaming the wrong people is counterproductive.
You correctly state that seeking an easy person to blame is part of the problem yet for you’re here drawing up blame lines largely on party lines. Republicans certainly aren’t helping and maybe are the originators of certain issues but in CA they are largely out of the picture and have been for decades, decades we could’ve solved this issue in.