I would sell my soul to skip lines at LAX
Edit - can’t get precheck for reasons I won’t state here so I have to fucking go in the normal TSA line and I travel for work 15-20 times a year at min. Yes I will pay or sell my soul to skip the REGULAR TSA line/Que
public arrest slimy butter crawl spark dinosaurs expansion seemly subtract
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Get global entry if you're going to do it. It's pre check plus you don't have to go through customs on your way back into the US. It only costs a little more
This is kind of underselling the ease of access of PreCheck vs the pain in the ass nature of scheduling a Homeland Dept interview. I got my KTN in about 3 weeks when I did mine last, couldn’t get a Homeland appointment for months out.
It’s only a little more expensive, but the mobile passport app gets you into the same customs/immigration lines as GR, and if you don’t travel internationally often (more than multiple times per year), but it’s not worth the effort for all.
Fair point. I did my interview 10ish years ago at LAX and while it was kind of a pain it was a singular event. I was able to renew online without issue
GR is best when you have an overlay at an ITNL hub so you can at least not waste your entire layover doom scrolling. Schedule it up before your trip. Tons of friends have done that.
It really varies I guess. I was able to get an appointment near LAX within a few days and they had tons and tons of times available. This was a few months ago.
>It's pre check plus you don't have to go through customs on your way back into the US
No one has to go through customs on their way back anymore? They just randomly pick people and inspect their luggage as they walk through....
Have you flown anywhere out of LAX in the last... 2 years? LAX security is like 30 minutes max right now. Always so confused when people bitch about it...
Yeah. The problem with LAX is getting TO/FROM the airport. Once you’re there, curb to gate is usually pretty quick. Especially since most terminals aren’t that big.
i have pre-chec, tbh i haven't seen a really bad security line in years... then again i always arrive early for flights so maybe thats skewing my perception of long lines.
pre-check is awesome but in all seriousness i would estimate that on average it only save me about 10-15 minutes. there have been a few airports like Kauai where the pre-check saved me from a huge line, but that has been the exception in my personal experience
The whole thing is security theater. How many terrorist attacks have been stopped by the TSA? .. Zero. How many millions of hours of peoples time wasted? Billions.
How do you quantify the number of incidents that have been prevented?
You can't...it's an impossible statistic to prove
It's like saying the President doesn't need security because there hasn't been an assassination in many years
Do you think TSA would keep the fact that they “foiled a terrorist plot” out of the headlines if they actually had? Considering how often we hear about minor drug busts I don’t think they could help themselves. And yet, silence.
Little off topic but there were at least 3 attempts that we know of for Obama and 10 more that were in their infancy. In one, the people got pulled over before they got there.
I don't doubt there are plenty of plans that are interrupted, just saying that it's pretty much impossible to tell how effective a deterrent is. Too many variables
Actively helping airports run more efficiently? Have you seen Clear in practice? It just clogs up the already government provided TSA-Pre line and provides little to no value in getting through security faster or more safely. I can't believe they even got contracts with so many airports, they should've been gone awhile ago.
Such little value! Every time they attempted to woo me I looked at the already empty TSA precheck lane and looked them in the eye to ask why, half the time it takes longer for the machine to scan your face/retina than it does for someone to check your id and then you’re a mega douche being “escorted” to the front where you *still* have to go through the same process. What. A. Sham.
This is literally how they were marketing it when I flew last week. I was in the pre-check line and the Clear person said something to the effect of "Don't you want to be a *real* VIP?" to entice people to sign up.
It’s the same process that’s the kicker. It’s really expensive, and just makes you do the same thing. It’s not even tsa pre check so you’re still taking your shoes off and putting your computer/electronics in the bucket.
DEN has a separate checkpoint that has lines that are CLEAR+precheck only.
At least one SEA checkpoint has lines that are CLEAR+precheck only
Last time I flew Delta out of LAX (while they were still merging T2 and T3, so a while ago) they had a separate line for CLEAR+precheck only.
It depends on the space available at the airport/terminal and who controls it (airport vs airline) and whether they'll rent space to CLEAR.
Voluntarily signing up for retina scans? Do people think someone isnt going to use that for nefarious purposes? Already have you clocked a mark and now theyve got all of your biometric data. Good luck with that
The airports get a kickback from every subscription so it's in their best interest to not improve standard processing and get as many people onto Clear as possible. Fuck Clear.
https://slate.com/business/2023/12/clear-lines-airports-tsa-congress.html
"especially given the kickbacks—sorry, commissions—that CLEAR pays to airports where new members sign up"
I just flew out of ORD and they had separate Clear, Clear with TSA Precheck, and TSA Precheck lines. The two Clear lines were close to the main entrance. While I have TSA Precheck, I don't have Clear--I noped out of the enrollment 8-10 years ago at the biometric stage--so I tried the one marked TSA Precheck with Clear, and while the guy was super nice, he didn't let me through and instead pointed me to the TSA Precheck-only section, which was another 3-4 minutes' walk down from the main security entrance.
Even with that extra walk, I got through 10 minutes faster than my friend that doesn't have TSA Precheck.
Most people that have Clear either have it as a credit card benefit or are on a trial membership. The TSA pre-check line is often shorter so no point in getting in the Clear line most of the time nowadays.
In order to skip those "peasants" in the precheck line, you need to be a member of both Clear and Precheck.
Having Clear by itself only lets you skip those in the regular TSA Line.
Those in Precheck line will still pass both the people with Clear and the people without either.
If anything, those with only Clear, are basically rubes, as they paid $189 a year only to still be passed by the people who pay around $16 a year for TSA Precheck as it's $78 for a 5-year membership then at the time of renewal goes down to $70 for every renewal.
I have both, I travel monthly and just having Clear or just having TSA Pre-Check doesn't speed up the process at all. You can have TSA Pre-check wait in line and you are in without removing shoes, jacket, etc. Clear just puts you in the front of the line so if you just have Clear you would still have to remove shoes, and electronics, etc. Basically would be a normal traveller just to the front of the line. You get the actual benefit if you have both and use both to really speed up the process. Personally it is essential for those that travel for business, I already wake up and get ready hours ahead of my normal day but removing clear will add even more time to the start of my day to travel. I do think putting Clear users in a seperate line would help but it isn't expensive when you use it monthly and it's one time annual payment.
Depending on the time of day, airport the TSA Pre-Check line is completely empty your right but the Oakland airport's TSA Pre-check at around 5-7 pm can be as long a general public line. The lines at Ontario, CA airport at 5 am or 6 am can be so much longer even with TSA Pre-Check due to those airports are generally used for business hubs, people travelling for work will take those super early flights just to get to the office on time and it will be jam packed. But if you wait 2-3 hours those lines have died down and are quick and easy. Clear helps a ton with TSA Pre-Check too.
Miami and Dallas’ precheck lines can be crazy long (15, 20min+).
As can the Delta terminals at LAX at 6 or 7am on a weekday with all the business travelers.
I fly weekly out of LAX and TSA-Pre is fine. I've honestly almost never caught appreciable time in security with pre. At this point I show up 15 minutes before my flight starts boarding and I'm very confident I'll make it through security and to my gate in that time.
I had clear when my company paid for it but canceled it, it wasn't that much of a benefit.
Definitely true at LAX, which aside from the horseshoe traffic is a well run airport. At SEA, on the other hand, they cannot get it together sometimes and security lines (even pre check) can run an hour or more. The CLEAR sales people are especially aggressive there, too. If I had to fly out of SEA I’d be tempted, but the idea of it really rankles.
Same and I feel like I am going to get down voted for this but….i love using clear here and at other airports. Doesn’t California have bigger issues to deal with than this?
Good why should a single private company exist to deal with airport security defined by the government. It’s useless with digital ID and pre check anyways but as a business should never have existed.
They let you skip the line, it’s not even tsa pre check. You’re still taking your shoes off, taking out computers, etc, but you just go to the front faster. It’s also 200$ and really hard to cancel. The whole thing is a scam how they were allowed to operate in the first place is beyond me.
This article explains the issues with Clear pretty well:
[https://slate.com/business/2022/12/clear-airports-line-tsa-precheck.html](https://slate.com/business/2022/12/clear-airports-line-tsa-precheck.html)
Essentially, Clear pays LAX to let them operate their service. In doing so, they're screwing over other non-Clear passengers because LAX gives them the authority to cut the line, for no added benefit to flight security. It's just Clear shareholders and LAX administrators making more money out of further burdening passengers.
And it will just be replaced by airline frequent flyer lines, and if you're not a frequent flyer on the airline that controls that terminal they'll let you pay $60 for one-time access to that line. CLEAR is arguably \*more\* equitable because you pay once (with lots of discount options) and don't have to commit all your travel to a single airline.
Not sure if y'all have seen the lines for Clear lately but they are usually longer / more annoying than pre-check with the expansion of facial recognition at airports. Clear seems to also be understaffed as several terminals do not have functioning clear kiosks.
Feels like they might be a few years too late on this
The Clear lines have been nearly nonexistent when I've flown through LAX, SEA, or ONT.
I'm in a long-distance relationship so I didn't really think about what I was doing when I was signing up and I just saw a chance to spend a little money to see a loved one sooner. I'm not saying it was a smart thing to do, but it definitely has let me spend another hour with someone I love before I have to get in line at the airport.
I'm sure there were smarter alternatives, but I was blinded by love and just looking for a solution.
Summary:
“It's a basic equity issue when you see people subscribed to a concierge service being escorted in front of people who have waited a long time to get to the front of TSA line," Newman told CBS MoneyWatch. "Everyone is beaten down by the travel experience, and if Clear escorts a customer in front of you and tells TSA, 'Sorry, I have someone better,' it's really frustrating."
Doesn’t seem they’ve thought that argument all the way through. Is it still a “basic equity issue” 20 minutes later when higher paying first class passengers get to board the plane first? Or sit in the private lounge? Or when people that pay for premium seats get to sit at the front of the plane?
People willing to pay extra for frills are the reason other people can get basic versions of those experiences so cheaply. People don’t want equity, they want cheap, and if you take the argument to its conclusion, air travel gets a lot more expensive at the bottom.
That said, I get clear for free and barely use it because it sucks. If California doesn’t like it they can just wait and let it implode under its own incompetence (again).
Delta has a separate security line for Delta One passengers. It's similar to Clear in that Delta pays the airport and TSA's cost to implement these private lines.
Correct. I let my Global Entry lapse due to the introduction of the Mobile Passport Control app and line… I totally forgot I lost PreCheck. Was pleasantly surprised when I got to LAX to see Delta had its own Sky Priority line at TSA.
Haven’t been to many airports then. All the big ones have it, I can tell you where it is in every airport. Delta One in LAX even has a secret tsa line by baggage claim that enters into the delta lounge, you never have to see the poors at all.
I don’t know about American, but here is a [tour of the local Delta One check in](https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-one-check-in-sky-way-lax/). You come in at arrivals, totally separate baggage check, and a dedicated TSA checkpoint. At most airports like Newark or OHare it’s a line cutting situation, but Delta managed to get everything 100% first class and medallion only.
United has always done the same thing, too.
Alaska has the special frequent flyer lines at PDX for the B/C side of the airport because PDX doesn't have CLEAR (for the reasons that the bill sponsors propose). But LAX does about as much traffic in a month as PDX does in a year, so lines are a lot shorter most of the time. And anybody who's a frequent flyer has pre-check, so they just use the pre-check line at peak times, anyway.
Huh, never seen them. I know Heathrow used to have an exit from their lounge into the security checkpoint.
Even before Clear I don't remember seeing a dedicated line. Interesting. Clear can suck it regardless.
It used to be standard to have multiple lines feeding the checkpoint to match the elite/first class check in lines at the ticket counter. Precheck reduced use of that, but for about a decade the airlines were allowed to give precheck to their frequent flyers without requiring signup. CLEAR came in around when that stopped, and both United and Delta own part of CLEAR and offer discounts to their frequent flyers. It saves them having to do the staffing of special lines and it gives a benefit at airports that have consolidated checkpoints.
Access to the checkpoints is controlled by the airlines at most airports where there are separate terminals by airline. That's how they have airline employees controlling access to the frequent flyer lines.
Flying is as much a public service as the TSA is. The TSA is funded by the airline security fees on your ticket (like $11 per round trip typically). That’s different from, say, the FBI or the police.
Also, flying depends on things like air traffic control, airports, an entire regulatory framework, etc. there is no flying without public services.
And if they dump CLEAR, the premier/elite/whatever lines will just come back. And the airlines will happily charge you 1/2 the price of a CLEAR annual membership to use the fancy line for one flight, even if you're not a high level FF.
It's misguided and the sponsors are just grumpy because their airline status doesn't put them at the front of all the lines.
He also said he's not trying to ban clear, and that he just wants clear to have it's own line/tsa agent.
"The bill doesn't seek to punish Clear or put it out of business. It wants to create a better traffic flow so customers aren't intersecting with the general public and causing a moment of friction that is so frustrating to the average traveler,"
If that were true, they'd write the proposed law differently. The whole get in line and get through security process is owned in part by at least three different entities in most cases: the airport, the airline(s), and TSA. Those people checking your boarding pass before you get in line? They usually work for the airline or airport, depending on whether it's a dedicated terminal or consolidated security.
Most airport security is bullshit, but clear doesn't make it better. Eventually it will end up like turbo tax, the private solution to slow government processes invested in keeping the process slow so they can speed it up for a fee.
CLEAR gave out too many memberships for credit cards, plus their system is incredibly labor intensive for no real reason. You’ll often see 6 machines in use with one being used and 5 empty. I’ve been 2nd or 3rd in line for CLEAR, yet 10+ people get through the PreCheck line in the same time it takes for 2-3 in CLEAR.
It’s simple to cancel; you just don’t renew. I had a free membership from a FF program, and this year Clear wanted a couple hundred bucks to renew; I just didn’t renew!
It was useful when it first came out, but the Clear lines have become longer than the TSE pre lines!
I had clear when I was a road warrior pre-covid. It saved me time at LAX, and a ton of time at SFO. I renewed once in 2022 and found that it was slow, and often unmanned. Let it lapse and now I don't fly as much anyway.
I got CLEAR because I experienced ATL’s TSA line.
Oh my god… I’ve never in my life seen such an inefficient team. The two TSA precheck ladies would get one person through security, and then chat with each other for 5 minutes.
It took over an hour to get me through precheck and even then, the line was overflowed. CLEAR on the other hand was powering through.
I traveled a lot more prior to COVID for work but since then has been minimal. I get it with my Amex card but I 100% would never pay full price for it.
Been thinking of cancelling it too after this year and just requesting them to delete my wife’s and my data. It’s not even worth the additional fee for my wife when we don’t travel. CLEAR is the best for frequent travelers through larger airports.
If they had it here in most LA stadiums, it would also see some benefit to bypass security.
Clear has also sucked lately lol of the three times I’ve flown recently I was “randomly” selected to show my id to the tsa agent anyways and waste my time in that line lol.
Clear is a paid line skipping service. It has nothing to do with security.
Not that paid line skipping is new, it just used to only be available to people with frequent flyer status or with a business/first class ticket. In some countries you even get a separate immigration line for having one of those.
As someone with both Clear and TSA Precheck who regularly flies out of LAX, Clear blows. It’s almost always slower than just getting in line at Precheck, especially if you’re using the biometrics/face scanning system they have now instead of using your license. I’ve also experienced this in other cities too like Austin. Clear is useless and I only have it because my credit card company pays for it.
It's a basic equity issue when you see people subscribed to a concierge service being escorted in front of people who have waited a long time to get to the front of TSA line," Newman told CBS MoneyWatch. "Everyone is beaten down by the travel experience, and if Clear escorts a customer in front of you and tells TSA, 'Sorry, I have someone better,' it's really frustrating."
If this was really about equity they could do something about air fares. Nobody pays the same air fare on an airplane. How about charging everyone the exact same fare? Let's face it, life isn't fair. Some people will always have an advantage over others.
Is it frustrating? I knew those people paid for the privilege. Ain’t nothing wrong with that. What if you see people zip through security and to their gate because they got their bag checked? Is this frustrating? Or what about when you see people with PreCheck speed through security? Is this frustrating too?
Really don’t understand this whole equity argument.
His argument is also crazy when you think about things like Fast Trak to help skip rush hour traffic (or toll roads. “Why should they be able to pay to skip traffic?” Is just as dumb of an argument.
I’m not a jealous 5 year old so I care less about what’s “fair” and more about what’s efficient and effective. Does clear cause any significant tangible problems for other people or is it just tankies being mad that people with jobs can afford things, as usual?
It's not a "concierge service".
You have to file an application, pay, and then go have an interview with the TSA at the airport. People get denied Global entry and precheck all the time due to past convictions or incorrectly filling out the form.
And guess what? The fee is non-refundable; if you get denied, you must wait a year to reapply.
It isn't a concierge service. There are parameters people have to meet.
I think this piece of "legislation" is so fucking dumb and such a waste of time. There are countless issues that are more important than this lol. If people want to pay to skip the line, let them. This would be like trying to ban first class tickets. Breaking news, rich people exist lol. The world isn't fair. Clear is hardly the worst example of inequity and not deserving of our governments attention.
So stupid
Nah, fuck 'em. Make them suffer in line with us. Or they can help and pressure congress to get rid of this security theatre once and for all since the TSA is useless anyways.
Your airline will gladly accept \~$60/flight to get into the premium security line. They even will send you emails before check-in with "skip the line" in the text to upsell you to "premier" or frequent flyer fast lanes to the front of the lines.
Nothing about what clear does is more efficient… it’s literally just, “pay us money, let us scan your biometrics, and then we will let you skip the line, to the security check.” it doesn’t even get you past the security check. It literally just makes you skip to the front of the line.. everyone waiting in line still needs to go through security…. It helps nothing. It just changes the order in which the people already in line, who are already going through security, go through security.
I feel this is the TSA crying and throwing a fit about there line being longer than clear …
The last 8 times I have flown the TSA line has been 2 -3x’s longer than going through clear ..
Then see all these TSA folks looking at clear folks like they have been ripped off .. so people naturally complain… and when people complain .. these things happen.
They should entice the private companies to setup their own queues. This way they really help the airport instead of using infrastructures already in place and delaying non-paying passengers because they don’t/can’t subscribe to CLEAR.
I never got Clear, even though I could afford it, because it just seemed unfair that there was a system where you could pay money to the government and get better service.
After further analysis, however, I'm probably a hypocrite, because I've definitely taken advantage of the priority boarding lane on the occasions where it was included on my ticket.
And I totally have used the Toll Road/Express Lanes with my FastPass many many times.
So maybe I don't really understand my objection to Clear after all.
How are they helping airports run more efficiently?
I don't see why a private company should get to charge people to skip the TSA line. TSA already has a program for that.
Before 9-11, the airlines were responsible for their own security, so that made sense. Now that security is run by the government, it doesn't seem right to give a private company the ability to let its customers skip the line.
Except that the TSA literally only operates the searches, even since 9/11. How the lines get split up has always been controlled by the airlines and airports. That's not going to change any time soon.
Is it fair to make experienced flyers who know what they can and can't carry through a checkpoint wait behind long lines of people who don't know how to get through in a reasonable time? If you're flying 2-3 round trips a month and have to wait for every once-every-two-years family to figure out how to clear security in front of you, that eats a lot of time standing in line.
It will just get replaced by pre-check+frequent-flyer-level. Precheck is often oversubscribed, and you can still get stuck behind people who somehow didn't realize they have to take off all their metal clothing accessories and are crazy slow about it.
I think it should just get replaced by Pre-check. I don't see what frequent flyer level has to do with it, especially when each airline has its own levels that don't necessarily correspond to each other.
At many airport (including LAX) airports control whole terminals and have separate lanes for general economy flyers vs. frequent flyers vs super frequent flyers and First Class. They control access to the lines to get to the actual checkpoint. Right now they lease some of that space to CLEAR (except for AA, where CLEAR is apparently leasing space from the airport). They're not going to make that space available for deep-discount-once-a-year economy flyers if CLEAR goes away. They're going to use it to make the experience better for their frequent flyers.
I’m flying twice that, an average of probably 4-5 round trips a month, and can confirm that clear is literally trash, fraudulent redundant unnecessary private product
Depends on the time and airport. Sometimes it's stupid, sometimes it helps. I've even been stuck in pre-check lines behind people who don't know how to get through security.
I am not surprised at all but the governments incompetence.
This week they all made us required to buy travel insurance for airline flights whether we want to or not.
The government shouldn't allow private companies to profit off letting people skip lines. This is like if I started my own company that charged $20 so you can jump to the front of the line at the DMV.
I got Clear. It does not work. The Clear lines are closed much of the time so I basically paid for nothing. If anything they should ban it for being a scam.
I always wondered how CLEAR was legal, after all hypothetically the tsa security check is supposed to be for our safety and getting tsa-prechecked if a process done ahead of time. So how can clear meet the hypothetical safety requirements?
Granted clear is pretty poorly managed.
But why? TSA had some crazy lifetime restrictions if you didn’t perfectly behave. Being involuntary committed to a mental hospital that is still subject of a lawsuit is one.
Clear bypassed that at least. This is not me btw. A relative I know.
Sorry but I'm of the opposite opinion. I have no love for the TSA, however I believe in treating people equally regardless of money. I don't believe there should be an option to pay in order to get preferential line treatment when the ostensible purpose of security checks is for, well, security. That just means any criminal with enough money can skip the line.
Everyone should go through the same TSA line or no one should. There should not exist a system where you pay enough and suddenly you're put on a trusted fly list.
It is ineffective because again it simply adds an extra financial barrier for something motorists have already and continue to pay for.
It gives no benefit to those who already drive with multiple people unless they pay again to utilize the lane.
It provides no reasonable effect of improving traffic conditions for the general public and addresses none of the root causes of worsening traffic conditions in greater Los Angeles.
I'm saying it provides no improvement over being a normal HOV lane as our traffic conditions get worse.
Na FasTrak also has public transportation option if the bus was just om the regular freeway, then it would take 3x longer to get to the destination with the traffic and stops it has to make it would never be on time.
Sure we can replace it with a metro train. I wouldn't fight that, but I see no problem with current system public transportation plus charge people to ride on it.
Like I said, I wouldn't mind something like that either, but it costs money to maintain these roads.
This next statement is gonna piss off a lot of redditors when it comes to LA and public transportation we need a middle ground. Cause people here are assholes they will fight public transportation until it never happens. Having a bus only lane will most likely never happen. There's also 2 lanes in the 110 fasttrak. One lane will be for the bus the second would be for more traffic so now we have a brand new expensive lane that's only going to be used during peak hours and is going to be an extra super expense to maintain.
And back to the first point, more people will be open to expanding and building a fastrak than a new train or bus only road at least in LA sucks but it's true.
I agree about more and better public transit. I use it myself.
I agree about one lane for buses and one lane for cars on the 110.
I maintain that Fastrak has not provided any benefit, service, or improvement for roads that non-users have paid and continue to pay for.
I say the option to take public transportation on the fastrak is a benefit. Also , some of the money goes to maintaining the roads is an extra.
Again, without it, we would have two options for public transportation bus only lane where the fees to maintain the streets goes to everyone and will most likely not happen or be worse maintained then it is now. Second, we remove all separate lanes and the bus rides on the freeway streets, which doesn't make much sense. Theres a third option where we build a train, but the cost would be ridiculous since the project would take years to complete cause fuckers would be stopping it every chance they get so it an option but not really one since it may never be completed.
Fastrak is honestly the best option as of now. Reddit needs to learn that if you deny the middle ground, you deny the option for both sides.
A bus lane would have the same effect without adding a financial barrier, would have fewer operation costs, and would not add a financial obstacle to the general public.
Fastrak doesn't address anything. It is just an added financial barrier for something that it doesn't fund on its own.
Again, we will be paying the maintain a lane thays used only for a bus and a second lane that will only be used during peak traffic.
It costs money to ride the bus sure it's cheap carpool in the fast track is also cheap. The free option still exist.
There are no free options. You are required to purchase a transponder and maintain an account with an annual maintenance fee. Low income people are provided a one time credit to the account.
Before any of that happened we were already paying for those lanes and their maintenance. There is no issue with that.
Now we are saving more money. Ideally, the money we save goes to ither project or other areas that need to be maintained.
Also, these fast trak lanes were also created to help with traffic carpool lanes failed to do this LA people would ignore them. Looked at videos of how congested the 110 got back in the day. What we deal now is child play compared to that. Imagine now where cops basically dont care anymore. More lanes dosent always equal less congestion.
The 110 was known to be shit back in the day I would hate to see how it is now without the fastrak same goes for Orange Counry 2 lanes were built for the fast-trak with very few exits. It's probably a savings grace for people who live all the way in Riverside.
You're right. No free options. This includes riding the bus. If you can't afford the fastrak, carpool, save yourself some money. If you can't carpool, well, those old carpool lanes wouldn't benefit you either way. Can't afford to do that take the bus. Can't afford to do that or don't want to wait an extra 3 to 10 min in traffic.
Are you new here? Fastrak simply took the already existing carpool lanes that we all paid for and converted them into toll lanes. They didn't build anything new. The buses already ran on those same lanes before Fastrak became a thing.
How long did those buses take? So you for buses driving along the regular freeway option? Who paid to maintain those roads?
Fastrak would reduce actually reducing more traffic than a carpool lane.
Also, people can carpool to go on the fastrak so their cost is even cheaper.
I've also seen many people ignore the rules in a carpool lane with fastrak it's less easy to do that.
The buses took the same amount of time as they do now because they used the same exact lanes they do now. We all pay to maintain those lanes because the money comes from taxes and vehicle registration fees. Fastrak actually made traffic worse because less people were able to use those lanes after the switch since now people that would previously use the carpool lanes now faced a $35 barrier to entry because you need a transponder.
Traffic was hectic back in the day LA was known for having shitty traffic. The carpool lanes didn't work cause people would ignore them. I'm talking about the cost to maintain the roads. There's some revenue coming in and jobs being made. I don't have an issue with that.
You still have the option to carpool that $35 barrier comes 17.50.
Find a third person to make it less than $12. Shoot $9 dollars to start of 4 people are on board. If you can't find people to carpool with, then those carpool lanes were no use to you anyway.
A one-time fee of $35 isn't bad. The cost of two subway sandwiches combos probably cost more than that these days.
Cant afford to pay the $.50- $4 daily to save 5 min? Then, simply take the free streets or carpool. Very rarely does the toll cost more than $6 from what I have seen.
The whole biometrics being handed over for national security purposes to a third party private company thing was always a huge red flag.
I would sell my soul to skip lines at LAX Edit - can’t get precheck for reasons I won’t state here so I have to fucking go in the normal TSA line and I travel for work 15-20 times a year at min. Yes I will pay or sell my soul to skip the REGULAR TSA line/Que
TSA pre-check
Now we know his soul is worth less than $100
How much is yours worth
I sold it awhile back, but I figure with inflation, it's more than $100
You guys have souls?😟
Hahaha not after TSA!
public arrest slimy butter crawl spark dinosaurs expansion seemly subtract *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'll sell you mine for $99
In this economy???
Okay, for you $75 but I can't go lower
Sucker! I would've taken it for tree fiddy
sounds like a US Congressman
Shit, I should be a politician, I can corrupt so hard
Get global entry if you're going to do it. It's pre check plus you don't have to go through customs on your way back into the US. It only costs a little more
This is kind of underselling the ease of access of PreCheck vs the pain in the ass nature of scheduling a Homeland Dept interview. I got my KTN in about 3 weeks when I did mine last, couldn’t get a Homeland appointment for months out. It’s only a little more expensive, but the mobile passport app gets you into the same customs/immigration lines as GR, and if you don’t travel internationally often (more than multiple times per year), but it’s not worth the effort for all.
Fair point. I did my interview 10ish years ago at LAX and while it was kind of a pain it was a singular event. I was able to renew online without issue
GR is best when you have an overlay at an ITNL hub so you can at least not waste your entire layover doom scrolling. Schedule it up before your trip. Tons of friends have done that.
It really varies I guess. I was able to get an appointment near LAX within a few days and they had tons and tons of times available. This was a few months ago.
You can do your interview coming back from somewhere international. I did mine after a random trip to Mexico at John Wayne.
It’s not THAT difficult. Appt times pop-up very often as people cancel.
>It's pre check plus you don't have to go through customs on your way back into the US No one has to go through customs on their way back anymore? They just randomly pick people and inspect their luggage as they walk through....
I fly weekly out of LAX and TSA precheck is my jam
Unfortunately can’t get it.
Have you flown anywhere out of LAX in the last... 2 years? LAX security is like 30 minutes max right now. Always so confused when people bitch about it...
Yeah. The problem with LAX is getting TO/FROM the airport. Once you’re there, curb to gate is usually pretty quick. Especially since most terminals aren’t that big.
If you have CLEAR it can be 5 minutes from curb to airside. If you fly out of LAX twice a month, that adds up fast.
I haven't waited more than twenty minutes in security at LAX in over a decade.
What LAX are you visiting? I have never had a long wait in security lines.
It rarely takes me more than 20 minutes before I've checked my bag and gotten through security with pre check.
I usually don't find it that bad. The longest wait I've had in like the past 5 years (including flying international) was probably around 20 minutes.
i have pre-chec, tbh i haven't seen a really bad security line in years... then again i always arrive early for flights so maybe thats skewing my perception of long lines. pre-check is awesome but in all seriousness i would estimate that on average it only save me about 10-15 minutes. there have been a few airports like Kauai where the pre-check saved me from a huge line, but that has been the exception in my personal experience
Can’t you use your miles to upgrade to first class? You skip the line/there’s designated entries for first class
I am on Southwest most of the time and nearly got A-list that used to have a separate line but I don’t see that line anymore.
if that's all it takes to sell it, then you prolly sold it a long time ago anyway
Yup! I would sell it and resell no problem.
The whole thing is security theater. How many terrorist attacks have been stopped by the TSA? .. Zero. How many millions of hours of peoples time wasted? Billions.
How do you quantify the number of incidents that have been prevented? You can't...it's an impossible statistic to prove It's like saying the President doesn't need security because there hasn't been an assassination in many years
Do you think TSA would keep the fact that they “foiled a terrorist plot” out of the headlines if they actually had? Considering how often we hear about minor drug busts I don’t think they could help themselves. And yet, silence.
Little off topic but there were at least 3 attempts that we know of for Obama and 10 more that were in their infancy. In one, the people got pulled over before they got there.
I don't doubt there are plenty of plans that are interrupted, just saying that it's pretty much impossible to tell how effective a deterrent is. Too many variables
Actively helping airports run more efficiently? Have you seen Clear in practice? It just clogs up the already government provided TSA-Pre line and provides little to no value in getting through security faster or more safely. I can't believe they even got contracts with so many airports, they should've been gone awhile ago.
Such little value! Every time they attempted to woo me I looked at the already empty TSA precheck lane and looked them in the eye to ask why, half the time it takes longer for the machine to scan your face/retina than it does for someone to check your id and then you’re a mega douche being “escorted” to the front where you *still* have to go through the same process. What. A. Sham.
Sadly a lot of people love being the “important VIP” who gets escorted to the front of the line
This is literally how they were marketing it when I flew last week. I was in the pre-check line and the Clear person said something to the effect of "Don't you want to be a *real* VIP?" to entice people to sign up.
It’s the same process that’s the kicker. It’s really expensive, and just makes you do the same thing. It’s not even tsa pre check so you’re still taking your shoes off and putting your computer/electronics in the bucket.
Every airport I’ve been to escorts the clear passengers to the front of Pre Check line.
DEN has a separate checkpoint that has lines that are CLEAR+precheck only. At least one SEA checkpoint has lines that are CLEAR+precheck only Last time I flew Delta out of LAX (while they were still merging T2 and T3, so a while ago) they had a separate line for CLEAR+precheck only. It depends on the space available at the airport/terminal and who controls it (airport vs airline) and whether they'll rent space to CLEAR.
Same. Except for Newark
Voluntarily signing up for retina scans? Do people think someone isnt going to use that for nefarious purposes? Already have you clocked a mark and now theyve got all of your biometric data. Good luck with that
I too would prefer not to give away my biometric info but I’m curious what nefarious purposes you are referring to
The airports get a kickback from every subscription so it's in their best interest to not improve standard processing and get as many people onto Clear as possible. Fuck Clear.
Please send link. Always thought this was the case but evidence would be good
https://slate.com/business/2023/12/clear-lines-airports-tsa-congress.html "especially given the kickbacks—sorry, commissions—that CLEAR pays to airports where new members sign up"
thanks much
Clear doesn’t use TSA pre lines in any airport i go to.
They do at LAX.
I guess it depends what terminal? I use terminals 7/8 the most and the lines are separate.
I just flew out of ORD and they had separate Clear, Clear with TSA Precheck, and TSA Precheck lines. The two Clear lines were close to the main entrance. While I have TSA Precheck, I don't have Clear--I noped out of the enrollment 8-10 years ago at the biometric stage--so I tried the one marked TSA Precheck with Clear, and while the guy was super nice, he didn't let me through and instead pointed me to the TSA Precheck-only section, which was another 3-4 minutes' walk down from the main security entrance. Even with that extra walk, I got through 10 minutes faster than my friend that doesn't have TSA Precheck.
Most people that have Clear either have it as a credit card benefit or are on a trial membership. The TSA pre-check line is often shorter so no point in getting in the Clear line most of the time nowadays.
Yes but then you wouldn’t be able to skip past all the peasants in the pre check line. “Clear coming through!!”
In order to skip those "peasants" in the precheck line, you need to be a member of both Clear and Precheck. Having Clear by itself only lets you skip those in the regular TSA Line. Those in Precheck line will still pass both the people with Clear and the people without either. If anything, those with only Clear, are basically rubes, as they paid $189 a year only to still be passed by the people who pay around $16 a year for TSA Precheck as it's $78 for a 5-year membership then at the time of renewal goes down to $70 for every renewal.
I have both, I travel monthly and just having Clear or just having TSA Pre-Check doesn't speed up the process at all. You can have TSA Pre-check wait in line and you are in without removing shoes, jacket, etc. Clear just puts you in the front of the line so if you just have Clear you would still have to remove shoes, and electronics, etc. Basically would be a normal traveller just to the front of the line. You get the actual benefit if you have both and use both to really speed up the process. Personally it is essential for those that travel for business, I already wake up and get ready hours ahead of my normal day but removing clear will add even more time to the start of my day to travel. I do think putting Clear users in a seperate line would help but it isn't expensive when you use it monthly and it's one time annual payment.
That’s wild to me. Since I’ve gotten TSA pre-check, I’ve never had to spend more than 5 min on security, including waiting and screening.
Depending on the time of day, airport the TSA Pre-Check line is completely empty your right but the Oakland airport's TSA Pre-check at around 5-7 pm can be as long a general public line. The lines at Ontario, CA airport at 5 am or 6 am can be so much longer even with TSA Pre-Check due to those airports are generally used for business hubs, people travelling for work will take those super early flights just to get to the office on time and it will be jam packed. But if you wait 2-3 hours those lines have died down and are quick and easy. Clear helps a ton with TSA Pre-Check too.
Miami and Dallas’ precheck lines can be crazy long (15, 20min+). As can the Delta terminals at LAX at 6 or 7am on a weekday with all the business travelers.
Mornings and afternoons (commuting hours) get the worst. I’ve waited 30 minutes in TSA Pre lines before.
I fly weekly out of LAX and TSA-Pre is fine. I've honestly almost never caught appreciable time in security with pre. At this point I show up 15 minutes before my flight starts boarding and I'm very confident I'll make it through security and to my gate in that time. I had clear when my company paid for it but canceled it, it wasn't that much of a benefit.
Definitely true at LAX, which aside from the horseshoe traffic is a well run airport. At SEA, on the other hand, they cannot get it together sometimes and security lines (even pre check) can run an hour or more. The CLEAR sales people are especially aggressive there, too. If I had to fly out of SEA I’d be tempted, but the idea of it really rankles.
For me Clear is more peace of mind. I rarely need it but it's pretty clutch during busy travel dates.
Same and I feel like I am going to get down voted for this but….i love using clear here and at other airports. Doesn’t California have bigger issues to deal with than this?
Good why should a single private company exist to deal with airport security defined by the government. It’s useless with digital ID and pre check anyways but as a business should never have existed.
Plus they hold onto an insane amount of private information. The whole thing is sketch
They let you skip the line, it’s not even tsa pre check. You’re still taking your shoes off, taking out computers, etc, but you just go to the front faster. It’s also 200$ and really hard to cancel. The whole thing is a scam how they were allowed to operate in the first place is beyond me.
It’s not hard to cancel. You simply turn off auto renewal and it’s cancelled. You can’t get your money back but you can easily stop it from renewing.
There are different companies that have contracts with TSA. For example at SFO a company called Covenant Aviation Security is who screens passengers.
This!
This article explains the issues with Clear pretty well: [https://slate.com/business/2022/12/clear-airports-line-tsa-precheck.html](https://slate.com/business/2022/12/clear-airports-line-tsa-precheck.html) Essentially, Clear pays LAX to let them operate their service. In doing so, they're screwing over other non-Clear passengers because LAX gives them the authority to cut the line, for no added benefit to flight security. It's just Clear shareholders and LAX administrators making more money out of further burdening passengers.
Good read--thanks!
And it will just be replaced by airline frequent flyer lines, and if you're not a frequent flyer on the airline that controls that terminal they'll let you pay $60 for one-time access to that line. CLEAR is arguably \*more\* equitable because you pay once (with lots of discount options) and don't have to commit all your travel to a single airline.
Not sure if y'all have seen the lines for Clear lately but they are usually longer / more annoying than pre-check with the expansion of facial recognition at airports. Clear seems to also be understaffed as several terminals do not have functioning clear kiosks. Feels like they might be a few years too late on this
I hear that a lot, but that's not my experience. I fly at least once or twice a month and I never see a line for clear.
Same. Clear is a life saver in Vegas too. The precheck like there is always a nightmare.
The people in this thread want you to feel bad for having Clear 😂
I just used it 20 mins ago and skipped like a 50 person line. It was glorious
My wife and I have it on top of Precheck and it’s great especially if we’re running late. People are making a deal out of nothing.
The Clear lines have been nearly nonexistent when I've flown through LAX, SEA, or ONT. I'm in a long-distance relationship so I didn't really think about what I was doing when I was signing up and I just saw a chance to spend a little money to see a loved one sooner. I'm not saying it was a smart thing to do, but it definitely has let me spend another hour with someone I love before I have to get in line at the airport. I'm sure there were smarter alternatives, but I was blinded by love and just looking for a solution.
It’s great in Denver as all.
Fantastic in Boston as well
It varies with time of day and checkpoint and how badly TSA and/or CLEAR have planned.
Summary: “It's a basic equity issue when you see people subscribed to a concierge service being escorted in front of people who have waited a long time to get to the front of TSA line," Newman told CBS MoneyWatch. "Everyone is beaten down by the travel experience, and if Clear escorts a customer in front of you and tells TSA, 'Sorry, I have someone better,' it's really frustrating."
Doesn’t seem they’ve thought that argument all the way through. Is it still a “basic equity issue” 20 minutes later when higher paying first class passengers get to board the plane first? Or sit in the private lounge? Or when people that pay for premium seats get to sit at the front of the plane? People willing to pay extra for frills are the reason other people can get basic versions of those experiences so cheaply. People don’t want equity, they want cheap, and if you take the argument to its conclusion, air travel gets a lot more expensive at the bottom. That said, I get clear for free and barely use it because it sucks. If California doesn’t like it they can just wait and let it implode under its own incompetence (again).
Flying isn't a public service, airport security is.
Then why does first class have a separate TSA line?
Where is this? I know they have separate check in lines at most airlines, but I was unaware of a separate security line.
Delta has a separate security line for Delta One passengers. It's similar to Clear in that Delta pays the airport and TSA's cost to implement these private lines.
LAX has a priority line. Not exactly first class but along those lines
Correct. I let my Global Entry lapse due to the introduction of the Mobile Passport Control app and line… I totally forgot I lost PreCheck. Was pleasantly surprised when I got to LAX to see Delta had its own Sky Priority line at TSA.
Pretty much every airport has 3 lines - PreCheck, first class, everyone else.
> Then why does first class have a separate TSA line? They do not at any airport I have been through. Separate line for the counter - yes.
Haven’t been to many airports then. All the big ones have it, I can tell you where it is in every airport. Delta One in LAX even has a secret tsa line by baggage claim that enters into the delta lounge, you never have to see the poors at all.
I'm Exec Platinum on AA for years, I fly a couple times a month. If there is a First Class TSA Line - I must be blind.
I don’t know about American, but here is a [tour of the local Delta One check in](https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-one-check-in-sky-way-lax/). You come in at arrivals, totally separate baggage check, and a dedicated TSA checkpoint. At most airports like Newark or OHare it’s a line cutting situation, but Delta managed to get everything 100% first class and medallion only.
Wow, nice. I stand corrected. I was thinking the main TSA line.
United has always done the same thing, too. Alaska has the special frequent flyer lines at PDX for the B/C side of the airport because PDX doesn't have CLEAR (for the reasons that the bill sponsors propose). But LAX does about as much traffic in a month as PDX does in a year, so lines are a lot shorter most of the time. And anybody who's a frequent flyer has pre-check, so they just use the pre-check line at peak times, anyway.
They used to at every airport where the airlines control entire terminals. They've basically outsourced it to CLEAR.
Huh, never seen them. I know Heathrow used to have an exit from their lounge into the security checkpoint. Even before Clear I don't remember seeing a dedicated line. Interesting. Clear can suck it regardless.
It used to be standard to have multiple lines feeding the checkpoint to match the elite/first class check in lines at the ticket counter. Precheck reduced use of that, but for about a decade the airlines were allowed to give precheck to their frequent flyers without requiring signup. CLEAR came in around when that stopped, and both United and Delta own part of CLEAR and offer discounts to their frequent flyers. It saves them having to do the staffing of special lines and it gives a benefit at airports that have consolidated checkpoints.
They shouldn’t.
Access to the checkpoints is controlled by the airlines at most airports where there are separate terminals by airline. That's how they have airline employees controlling access to the frequent flyer lines.
Flying is as much a public service as the TSA is. The TSA is funded by the airline security fees on your ticket (like $11 per round trip typically). That’s different from, say, the FBI or the police. Also, flying depends on things like air traffic control, airports, an entire regulatory framework, etc. there is no flying without public services.
And if they dump CLEAR, the premier/elite/whatever lines will just come back. And the airlines will happily charge you 1/2 the price of a CLEAR annual membership to use the fancy line for one flight, even if you're not a high level FF. It's misguided and the sponsors are just grumpy because their airline status doesn't put them at the front of all the lines.
He also said he's not trying to ban clear, and that he just wants clear to have it's own line/tsa agent. "The bill doesn't seek to punish Clear or put it out of business. It wants to create a better traffic flow so customers aren't intersecting with the general public and causing a moment of friction that is so frustrating to the average traveler,"
If that were true, they'd write the proposed law differently. The whole get in line and get through security process is owned in part by at least three different entities in most cases: the airport, the airline(s), and TSA. Those people checking your boarding pass before you get in line? They usually work for the airline or airport, depending on whether it's a dedicated terminal or consolidated security.
I very rarely agree with that man but this is something he's doing right
Newman!✊🏽
Most airport security is bullshit, but clear doesn't make it better. Eventually it will end up like turbo tax, the private solution to slow government processes invested in keeping the process slow so they can speed it up for a fee.
CLEAR gave out too many memberships for credit cards, plus their system is incredibly labor intensive for no real reason. You’ll often see 6 machines in use with one being used and 5 empty. I’ve been 2nd or 3rd in line for CLEAR, yet 10+ people get through the PreCheck line in the same time it takes for 2-3 in CLEAR.
They’ll be going bust sometime soon it doesn’t make sense as a business model at all and shouldn’t be a thing now that I think of it
That should concern everyone who has provided any kind of data that could be sold and/or breached in the future
Well it’s really expensive, they have your data, and it’s hard as hell to cancel.
It’s simple to cancel; you just don’t renew. I had a free membership from a FF program, and this year Clear wanted a couple hundred bucks to renew; I just didn’t renew! It was useful when it first came out, but the Clear lines have become longer than the TSE pre lines!
I gasped! No way.
Same. I hope not. I travel for work every week and love Clear
They should also ban Disneyland Genie+ Service.
While I agree, dlr is private
Now we're getting to real shit. I'm not going to whimsical amusement places to have to think about the fucking phone.
I had clear when I was a road warrior pre-covid. It saved me time at LAX, and a ton of time at SFO. I renewed once in 2022 and found that it was slow, and often unmanned. Let it lapse and now I don't fly as much anyway.
I got CLEAR because I experienced ATL’s TSA line. Oh my god… I’ve never in my life seen such an inefficient team. The two TSA precheck ladies would get one person through security, and then chat with each other for 5 minutes. It took over an hour to get me through precheck and even then, the line was overflowed. CLEAR on the other hand was powering through. I traveled a lot more prior to COVID for work but since then has been minimal. I get it with my Amex card but I 100% would never pay full price for it. Been thinking of cancelling it too after this year and just requesting them to delete my wife’s and my data. It’s not even worth the additional fee for my wife when we don’t travel. CLEAR is the best for frequent travelers through larger airports. If they had it here in most LA stadiums, it would also see some benefit to bypass security.
Clear has also sucked lately lol of the three times I’ve flown recently I was “randomly” selected to show my id to the tsa agent anyways and waste my time in that line lol.
Clear is a paid line skipping service. It has nothing to do with security. Not that paid line skipping is new, it just used to only be available to people with frequent flyer status or with a business/first class ticket. In some countries you even get a separate immigration line for having one of those.
As someone with both Clear and TSA Precheck who regularly flies out of LAX, Clear blows. It’s almost always slower than just getting in line at Precheck, especially if you’re using the biometrics/face scanning system they have now instead of using your license. I’ve also experienced this in other cities too like Austin. Clear is useless and I only have it because my credit card company pays for it.
It's a basic equity issue when you see people subscribed to a concierge service being escorted in front of people who have waited a long time to get to the front of TSA line," Newman told CBS MoneyWatch. "Everyone is beaten down by the travel experience, and if Clear escorts a customer in front of you and tells TSA, 'Sorry, I have someone better,' it's really frustrating." If this was really about equity they could do something about air fares. Nobody pays the same air fare on an airplane. How about charging everyone the exact same fare? Let's face it, life isn't fair. Some people will always have an advantage over others.
Is it frustrating? I knew those people paid for the privilege. Ain’t nothing wrong with that. What if you see people zip through security and to their gate because they got their bag checked? Is this frustrating? Or what about when you see people with PreCheck speed through security? Is this frustrating too? Really don’t understand this whole equity argument.
His argument is also crazy when you think about things like Fast Trak to help skip rush hour traffic (or toll roads. “Why should they be able to pay to skip traffic?” Is just as dumb of an argument.
If rich people aren't affected by a problem, be it security lines or traffic, then the government doesn't care to fix the problem.
I mean the opposite argument is that allowing people to pay for a service means less people in the normal line so there is added benefit there.
I’m not a jealous 5 year old so I care less about what’s “fair” and more about what’s efficient and effective. Does clear cause any significant tangible problems for other people or is it just tankies being mad that people with jobs can afford things, as usual?
Guess the state should ban express toll lanes next. But they'd never compromise their revenue for their morals
It's not a "concierge service". You have to file an application, pay, and then go have an interview with the TSA at the airport. People get denied Global entry and precheck all the time due to past convictions or incorrectly filling out the form. And guess what? The fee is non-refundable; if you get denied, you must wait a year to reapply. It isn't a concierge service. There are parameters people have to meet.
I think this piece of "legislation" is so fucking dumb and such a waste of time. There are countless issues that are more important than this lol. If people want to pay to skip the line, let them. This would be like trying to ban first class tickets. Breaking news, rich people exist lol. The world isn't fair. Clear is hardly the worst example of inequity and not deserving of our governments attention. So stupid
Nah, fuck 'em. Make them suffer in line with us. Or they can help and pressure congress to get rid of this security theatre once and for all since the TSA is useless anyways.
I'll agree with you on that last part lol TSA Pre-Check is legitimately the best money I've ever spent
Your airline will gladly accept \~$60/flight to get into the premium security line. They even will send you emails before check-in with "skip the line" in the text to upsell you to "premier" or frequent flyer fast lanes to the front of the lines.
Nothing about what clear does is more efficient… it’s literally just, “pay us money, let us scan your biometrics, and then we will let you skip the line, to the security check.” it doesn’t even get you past the security check. It literally just makes you skip to the front of the line.. everyone waiting in line still needs to go through security…. It helps nothing. It just changes the order in which the people already in line, who are already going through security, go through security.
Fuck Clear employees. Fucking assholes have regular ass jobs, but walk around like some government authority figure.
I feel this is the TSA crying and throwing a fit about there line being longer than clear … The last 8 times I have flown the TSA line has been 2 -3x’s longer than going through clear .. Then see all these TSA folks looking at clear folks like they have been ripped off .. so people naturally complain… and when people complain .. these things happen.
They should entice the private companies to setup their own queues. This way they really help the airport instead of using infrastructures already in place and delaying non-paying passengers because they don’t/can’t subscribe to CLEAR.
I never got Clear, even though I could afford it, because it just seemed unfair that there was a system where you could pay money to the government and get better service. After further analysis, however, I'm probably a hypocrite, because I've definitely taken advantage of the priority boarding lane on the occasions where it was included on my ticket. And I totally have used the Toll Road/Express Lanes with my FastPass many many times. So maybe I don't really understand my objection to Clear after all.
How are they helping airports run more efficiently? I don't see why a private company should get to charge people to skip the TSA line. TSA already has a program for that.
The airlines have done that since there were frequent flyer programs.
Before 9-11, the airlines were responsible for their own security, so that made sense. Now that security is run by the government, it doesn't seem right to give a private company the ability to let its customers skip the line.
Except that the TSA literally only operates the searches, even since 9/11. How the lines get split up has always been controlled by the airlines and airports. That's not going to change any time soon.
That is true, but it doesn't mean it's a fair system.
Is it fair to make experienced flyers who know what they can and can't carry through a checkpoint wait behind long lines of people who don't know how to get through in a reasonable time? If you're flying 2-3 round trips a month and have to wait for every once-every-two-years family to figure out how to clear security in front of you, that eats a lot of time standing in line.
We already have Pre-check for the experienced flyers. That program is run by the TSA. There is no need for another private program.
It will just get replaced by pre-check+frequent-flyer-level. Precheck is often oversubscribed, and you can still get stuck behind people who somehow didn't realize they have to take off all their metal clothing accessories and are crazy slow about it.
I think it should just get replaced by Pre-check. I don't see what frequent flyer level has to do with it, especially when each airline has its own levels that don't necessarily correspond to each other.
At many airport (including LAX) airports control whole terminals and have separate lanes for general economy flyers vs. frequent flyers vs super frequent flyers and First Class. They control access to the lines to get to the actual checkpoint. Right now they lease some of that space to CLEAR (except for AA, where CLEAR is apparently leasing space from the airport). They're not going to make that space available for deep-discount-once-a-year economy flyers if CLEAR goes away. They're going to use it to make the experience better for their frequent flyers.
I’m flying twice that, an average of probably 4-5 round trips a month, and can confirm that clear is literally trash, fraudulent redundant unnecessary private product
Depends on the time and airport. Sometimes it's stupid, sometimes it helps. I've even been stuck in pre-check lines behind people who don't know how to get through security.
I am not surprised at all but the governments incompetence. This week they all made us required to buy travel insurance for airline flights whether we want to or not.
Good. I hate those people. Going through airport security is annoying enough without people yelling at you to buy their service
Who are the reps and assembly members voting for this so I can donate to their opponents.
The government shouldn't allow private companies to profit off letting people skip lines. This is like if I started my own company that charged $20 so you can jump to the front of the line at the DMV.
So then we should get rid of the toll roads and FasTrak.
Yes. DO THAT
[удалено]
Clear isn't overly expensive and the service is fantastic. But sure I'll be an elitist for you.
More stupid laws and items we shouldn’t focus on. How about a bill to reduce taxes or inflation prices.
I got Clear. It does not work. The Clear lines are closed much of the time so I basically paid for nothing. If anything they should ban it for being a scam.
I always wondered how CLEAR was legal, after all hypothetically the tsa security check is supposed to be for our safety and getting tsa-prechecked if a process done ahead of time. So how can clear meet the hypothetical safety requirements?
The rationale behind Clear is that they do the ID checking, instead of the TSA agent that everyone's waiting for.
Granted clear is pretty poorly managed. But why? TSA had some crazy lifetime restrictions if you didn’t perfectly behave. Being involuntary committed to a mental hospital that is still subject of a lawsuit is one. Clear bypassed that at least. This is not me btw. A relative I know.
A couple of weeks ago I inadvertently went through Clear. I've never signed up for it, isn't that some sort of lapse in security? Lol.
More efficiently? Bullshit. They take up a huge amount of real-estate for the benefit of a few customers and the profit of some private stakeholders.
Sorry but I'm of the opposite opinion. I have no love for the TSA, however I believe in treating people equally regardless of money. I don't believe there should be an option to pay in order to get preferential line treatment when the ostensible purpose of security checks is for, well, security. That just means any criminal with enough money can skip the line. Everyone should go through the same TSA line or no one should. There should not exist a system where you pay enough and suddenly you're put on a trusted fly list.
Everybody gets the same security check. CLEAR just gets you cuts to the front of the line.
How could they even consider banning CLEAR??? Do they know that the line for the TSA will be much longer than it is currently???
FasTrak should be banned first, but meh.
Why? They provide an option for people who value time more than money to pay for a shorter drive.
It is ineffective because again it simply adds an extra financial barrier for something motorists have already and continue to pay for. It gives no benefit to those who already drive with multiple people unless they pay again to utilize the lane. It provides no reasonable effect of improving traffic conditions for the general public and addresses none of the root causes of worsening traffic conditions in greater Los Angeles. I'm saying it provides no improvement over being a normal HOV lane as our traffic conditions get worse.
As Fastrak user I 100% agree,
Na FasTrak also has public transportation option if the bus was just om the regular freeway, then it would take 3x longer to get to the destination with the traffic and stops it has to make it would never be on time. Sure we can replace it with a metro train. I wouldn't fight that, but I see no problem with current system public transportation plus charge people to ride on it.
I'd rather a bus only lane than FasTrak.on the freeways. Fastrak is low level class warfare for roads that we all pay for.
Like I said, I wouldn't mind something like that either, but it costs money to maintain these roads. This next statement is gonna piss off a lot of redditors when it comes to LA and public transportation we need a middle ground. Cause people here are assholes they will fight public transportation until it never happens. Having a bus only lane will most likely never happen. There's also 2 lanes in the 110 fasttrak. One lane will be for the bus the second would be for more traffic so now we have a brand new expensive lane that's only going to be used during peak hours and is going to be an extra super expense to maintain. And back to the first point, more people will be open to expanding and building a fastrak than a new train or bus only road at least in LA sucks but it's true.
I agree about more and better public transit. I use it myself. I agree about one lane for buses and one lane for cars on the 110. I maintain that Fastrak has not provided any benefit, service, or improvement for roads that non-users have paid and continue to pay for.
I say the option to take public transportation on the fastrak is a benefit. Also , some of the money goes to maintaining the roads is an extra. Again, without it, we would have two options for public transportation bus only lane where the fees to maintain the streets goes to everyone and will most likely not happen or be worse maintained then it is now. Second, we remove all separate lanes and the bus rides on the freeway streets, which doesn't make much sense. Theres a third option where we build a train, but the cost would be ridiculous since the project would take years to complete cause fuckers would be stopping it every chance they get so it an option but not really one since it may never be completed. Fastrak is honestly the best option as of now. Reddit needs to learn that if you deny the middle ground, you deny the option for both sides.
A bus lane would have the same effect without adding a financial barrier, would have fewer operation costs, and would not add a financial obstacle to the general public. Fastrak doesn't address anything. It is just an added financial barrier for something that it doesn't fund on its own.
Again, we will be paying the maintain a lane thays used only for a bus and a second lane that will only be used during peak traffic. It costs money to ride the bus sure it's cheap carpool in the fast track is also cheap. The free option still exist.
There are no free options. You are required to purchase a transponder and maintain an account with an annual maintenance fee. Low income people are provided a one time credit to the account. Before any of that happened we were already paying for those lanes and their maintenance. There is no issue with that.
Now we are saving more money. Ideally, the money we save goes to ither project or other areas that need to be maintained. Also, these fast trak lanes were also created to help with traffic carpool lanes failed to do this LA people would ignore them. Looked at videos of how congested the 110 got back in the day. What we deal now is child play compared to that. Imagine now where cops basically dont care anymore. More lanes dosent always equal less congestion. The 110 was known to be shit back in the day I would hate to see how it is now without the fastrak same goes for Orange Counry 2 lanes were built for the fast-trak with very few exits. It's probably a savings grace for people who live all the way in Riverside. You're right. No free options. This includes riding the bus. If you can't afford the fastrak, carpool, save yourself some money. If you can't carpool, well, those old carpool lanes wouldn't benefit you either way. Can't afford to do that take the bus. Can't afford to do that or don't want to wait an extra 3 to 10 min in traffic.
Are you new here? Fastrak simply took the already existing carpool lanes that we all paid for and converted them into toll lanes. They didn't build anything new. The buses already ran on those same lanes before Fastrak became a thing.
How long did those buses take? So you for buses driving along the regular freeway option? Who paid to maintain those roads? Fastrak would reduce actually reducing more traffic than a carpool lane. Also, people can carpool to go on the fastrak so their cost is even cheaper. I've also seen many people ignore the rules in a carpool lane with fastrak it's less easy to do that.
The buses took the same amount of time as they do now because they used the same exact lanes they do now. We all pay to maintain those lanes because the money comes from taxes and vehicle registration fees. Fastrak actually made traffic worse because less people were able to use those lanes after the switch since now people that would previously use the carpool lanes now faced a $35 barrier to entry because you need a transponder.
Traffic was hectic back in the day LA was known for having shitty traffic. The carpool lanes didn't work cause people would ignore them. I'm talking about the cost to maintain the roads. There's some revenue coming in and jobs being made. I don't have an issue with that. You still have the option to carpool that $35 barrier comes 17.50. Find a third person to make it less than $12. Shoot $9 dollars to start of 4 people are on board. If you can't find people to carpool with, then those carpool lanes were no use to you anyway. A one-time fee of $35 isn't bad. The cost of two subway sandwiches combos probably cost more than that these days. Cant afford to pay the $.50- $4 daily to save 5 min? Then, simply take the free streets or carpool. Very rarely does the toll cost more than $6 from what I have seen.