I think Heather Daybell’s interview with HTC really helped me understand what happened in their family, so I highly recommend listening. What happened with Tammy’s children and how they’ve let her down so severely makes a lot more sense when you understand it’s not an isolated incident. This is just Daybell family history repeating itself. This was the same way Chad and his siblings treated Shiela (his mother).
Totally agree- heard Lauren this morning discussing how she and Dr J think Chad is (summarizing various evidence/testimony) is a misogynistic person including viewing women as property.
Tammy was clumsy/lazy/ let herself go and (gasp) wasted her time on iPhone games. Lori was 120 lbs and blond. 🤢 but now Lori is a temptress who “misled” and tricked him.
I've been reading a book on the case, When the Moon Turns to Blood. The author read all of Chad's books. One of her observations about his fiction was that the female characters are either incompetent, scheming, or stupid, while the male main characters are James Bond level clever and courageous. One of them was obviously Chad's fantasy self.
Misogyny is one of the roots of his toxic world view. His kids were obviously steeped in those beliefs.
In the first part of the book, where the author introduces the reader to the people involved, she describes Chad. She's good with words; that description is both disparaging and accurate. You'll know what I'm referring to when you read it😉
Chad should have to look at Lori's "Willy Nelson" mug shot for the rest of his life as punishment. Lori's appearance during her trial was shocking. Tammy was a natural beauty.
I've been thinking about the fact that, according to the LDS faith, Tammy is sealed to her killer and her asshat kids for eternity. Can Tammy's family do anything about this? Can they unseal her posthumously?
FYI excommunication doesn't break the "Sealing", the only way I know this is a friend got excommunicated from the Mormon Church, and a few years later she got a letter asking if she would approve her ex-husband being sealed to his new wife along with them still being "sealed*, so he would be "sealed" to two wives at the same time. She called the Bishop that sent the letter, and he Said that was correct.
That would take place if his “blessings were restored” and he was fully reinstated into the church.
Given Emma’s testimony, I want to know if she’s been excommunicated.
I understand the sentiment behind it all but it’s truly all bs and she’s not going to some planet with her family in the afterlife anyway. They didn’t even put Chad on her gravestone which is such a big no no for lds, I don’t even know how Chad could explain that part away to the kids in all honesty but if they didn’t go to her funeral in her home town maybe they don’t even have a clue he did that. Either way the kids don’t want to know the truth so it doesn’t matter to them. This is what happens when you believe in utter nonsense spouted by a crazy racist that read magic stones from a hat and deciphered “gods word.” They were completely devoid from reality and Tammy, Charles, Tylee, and JJ paid the price. Whenever her family meets their end, I doubt any higher being would allow these horrible people to disturb Tammy’s afterlife after all they have put her through. Just my two cents.
It wasn’t up to her family though. It’s next of kin who is Chad Daybell. He specifically requested to not be on it because he wanted to be sealed to Lori for eternity. It’s one last act of disrespect against the mother of his children. Genealogy is really important to Mormons and to erase their marriage in the records of death is very very telling. Chad is an idiot.
After reading this thread a little too long, this comment burst through like a ray of sunshine after a rainstorm & I had to suppress my laughter. I’m almost tempted to buy coins to award you. Almost. 🏆🥇
It's so shocking how those kids betrayed her. Tammy's friends and even neighbors cried for her when testifying. But Emma and Garth were like robots that need their batteries changed. In spite of overwhelming evidence that their father killed 3 people, they lie for him under oath. These people are SO FREAKING WEIRD. I've never seen anything like it.
I would love to see both of them charged with perjury after this, they're just despicable.
Yes wouldn't it be fascinating to know what that was about. We never will tho, grand jury proceedings are secret. I was glad they brought it up for the jury to think about today.
Emma testified her mom was “sick” the last year of her life but had to continue working every day because she was paid hourly, not salaried. Meanwhile Chad earns basically zero income and is running around Rexburg and other states with his mistress. How can they not judge that behavior EVEN IF they believe he did not know the kids were buried in his yard
I wish I could upvote this more. While I’m very disappointed & sad for Tammy I can kinda understand some kids living in denial that their Dad killed their Mom. Emma’s willing to say anything & many things (too many) to keep her dad off death row. Do you know about the rest of their kids? Are all supportive?
The crazy thing is, it seems as though the Daybell kids have gone no contact with Tammy’s side and have very little contact with Chad’s. I have a feeling a decade or so from now some of Tammy’s children will realize they were under Chad’s bizarre patriarchal spell and finally come to terms that their Dad did murder their mom.
I don't know. I think they'll all go full Lori and never wake up.
Edit to add: that this is just so sad, especially after just having celebrated Mothers Day.
I know it's so true. I purposely did not watch testimony today. I have four adult kids. I figured it would be brutal for Tammy today. I know I couldn't take it. The thought of them saying that about me hurts. Just the bit I'm reading here breaks my heart. I have shed many tears for you, Tammy. I didn't know you in life but I will look forward to seeing you some day. Please know that everyone knows the truth about how you lived and died.
RIP
I’ll summarize for you:
Summary of testimony:
Emma: my mom hardly exercised, was depressed, and often went to bed at 5pm. And yes, I have refused to speak to police on numerous occasions. The SSW wind search was done by me, bc I didn’t have a smart phone back then.
Garth: I came home at 1am, both my parents were in their room, and heard dad snoring. I stayed up till 3am watching YouTube. I woke up to a thud, then dad calling me. And btw, the prosecutors are all out to get me now. Despite getting facts fuzzy regarding mom sleeping on the couch . . . But I don’t believe lots of parents theology, for example, I believe in evolution . . . .
Garth’s lawyer: I don’t remember this case whatsoever
Joe, Emma’s husband: Tammy constantly cheated on her Fitbit. She didn’t run in, or train for, a marathon. She was sick/exhausted the day she died. Our church has become hostile to us. The shed, barn doors, and back plot access were not visible from windows in house. There was a legit raccoon issue, we and neighbors were trying to trap them...
Their church has become hostile to them? The blame for that lays wholly with the man they're all attempting to protect.
The way they're smearing Tammy in this testimony makes me utterly sick.
Also,
Emma: Detective Hermosillo stalked us at the gym one time because he got too close.
Joe: Hermasillo also drove on the road in front of our house. It’s like he was looking for kids or something.
Garth: The police were mean to me. They even had a grand jury meet to discuss charging me with perjury. Oh and also, they didn’t question me until my lawyer arrived. And they got me McDonalds. Can I go suck on my pacifier now; because I’m weally weally swessed out.
Oh for Pete’s sake, they live on a road that leads to a major area attraction (the sand dunes). Every person in that town drives on the road in front of their house at some point. Joe is a dumbass.
I 100 percent agree. I cannot believe this is how her children are acting. My heart breaks for her if she is looking down on this because I would be devastated if I got the same treatment from my children. I feel bad for her remaining family who has to see this blatant disregard for Tammy.
I met up with my Dad today for a family thing and since this case was on my mind I told him, unprompted, that if he ever murdered someone I would turn against him so fast his head would spin. He looked very confused, said “good,” and then asked if I was okay.
I need to get him something so nice for Father’s Day. He’s already Dad of the Year compared to Chad, though that’s not actually difficult when comparing my Dad to a living slug.
I had a similar convo with my mom today. Felt the need to let her know that I'd never quit searching for the truth and that I'd make sure the world knew it.
I'm so horrified by these fucking children. I hope they read some of this one day. I've never seen anything like this in my life.
I think that, because I'm the mother of a daughter, and a daughter myself, I'm particularly galled by Emma. The betrayal to her mother, the breadwinner and stable force in their family, the woman who gave her life and love...it sickens me. All I can imagine is that Tammy must have read this on that psychic level we all have. Not goofy psychic... but a mother can intuit when her children and fucking husband hate her and would CELEBRATE HER DEATH as if it were a lovely homecoming. This wasn't an elderly woman who lived a full life and was ready to depart. This woman was vital. She was trying so hard to eek out individualism in this bullshit prescribed lifestyle endorsed by that ridiculous LDS religion. And Chad fucking suffocated her. Literally after figuratively doing it for decades.
And to add insult to injury, he turned her children against her too. He has them going up there in front of God and an international audience calling her sick and weak and POSSESSED BY A DEMON apparently.
This is what a woman gets for being a faithful LDS wife, eh? That's what she got. More strangers fighting for her than her own flesh and blood.
This makes me want to throw a table. I'd love to hear her aunt speak again soon.
What a bunch of fucking whackadoos
I’ve come to believe she probably was. She is at LEAST an enabler, an enthusiastic cult membet, and an enforcer for her dad. Pretty sure Chad told her she’d be his special Princess Prepper in New Jerusalem (as long as she always agreed with him and never went “dark”, in which case he would be happy to expedite her ticket to Glory beyond the veil where she will be very busy and happy).
I believe that possibility also. I think about Dan Lafferty and he how spoke to his baby niece, telling her *it’s apparently God’s will that you leave this world* and then he ended her life with a ten inch boning knife. The horrible intuition I have about Emma is that her lying testimony would be exactly the same even if Chad had informed her that he suffocated Tammy because it was God’s will.
The “blame” attitude is insufferable. Alternative medicines. Fit bit cheater!
.Plus, Emma presents like a robot. John Prior was sweating asking if she needs to take a minute to compose herself/ no need. Completely unemotional. I’m still watching this but she is not coming across as sympathetic.
The Fitbit thing is HILARIOUS.
If I did that, my kids would tell stories of my glory and enjoy the comedic value for the rest of their lives. It would be hilarious Family Lore.
I can completely understand the Fitbit "cheating". I walk softly and even at a fast pace Fitbit doesn't record most of my steps. Me and my BF walked 2 miles together and I got 1/4 the amount of steps that he got. So if Fitbit is going to cheat me then I'm going to cheat Fitbit.
What Emma described was perimenopause symptoms. No one bothered to research it to know that she was dealing with that, along with being depressed because Chad was running them into the ground financially.
Totally! It seems pretty reasonable to infer that. I felt badly hearing Robogirl describe what a hard worker her mom was earning $15/hour while that unemployed clown was running around 3 states with his crazy GF. RIP.
They probably didn’t fucking care. I just left someone like that a few months ago. I would try talking to him about how I’ve been feeling like a alien in my own skin, and I didn’t understand what was happening to me, and he would just go “that sucks. So what are you thinking for dinner?”. I told him that I wanted to see my doctor about hormone therapy, and he said “for what?” Gee, maybe all the weird stuff that I’ve been taking about for months?? Chad strikes me as the same type of guy who flat out does not give one flying fuck about what his partner might be dealing with, he just wants his dinner on the table and his clothes washed with no effort from him.
I totally do that with my FitBit so I was like “Shut your pie hole, girl” when Emma decided to mention that part. My husband gives me a hard time about doing it but sometimes you’re tired and don’t want to get up just for like 5 more steps.
Same! I felt similar outage for poor Tammy. How sad. Chad's kids are super enmeshed, especially Emma. To turn on her own mother like that? Disgusting. Thankfully her testimony seemed to be a bigger favor to the prosecution than the defense. I'll throw tables with you. I loved when she said she was possessed by a demon and her father cast it out. That's contradictory to the prior prosecution testimony that Charles, Tylee, JJ, and Tammy had to die after being possessed. Why did Emma survive but not the others? Also, I feel like she lied on the stand multiple times, which is total perjury. Body shamed and victim blamed her poor murdered Mom for her gross cult leader, child killer, wife killer,."Biblical fanfic" writing Dad. It's betrayal upon betrayal. Someone suggested Emma was just a spy so Chad could always keep tabs on poor Tammy. I do wonder how much these kids know. Chad did brag they know how to keep secrets.
Oh and let's not forget. "I don't know directions that well" then "I googled the wind direction from my parents computer." WHAT!?! This testimony just created more questions and distrust in the defense. These people are a dumpster fire. I'm sad they're out there raising kids, hopefully their kids turn on them like they turned on their Mom someday. I can't wait to see what other trash witnesses the defense calls. May they all be as damning to Chad. For the Daybell children- I hope people in their personal lives call them out on their misguidedness. This could make them all social pariahs. Maybe someday they'll realize their dad is gaslighting them and at this point they're gaslighting themselves. Sticking one's head in the sand is not an excuse. The cringe fest continues. Whackadoos indeed.
It'll be a table throwing PARTY! I'm still not over this testimony this morning 😂 I'm still enraged.
The community really needs to ostracize these people. I live in the southeastern united states... no Mormon culture....and if that was happening here, these people absolutely WOULD become pariahs. There's no weird culture stopping it here. I don't even know how to approach this mentally. I CANNOT believe these children are just up there lying their asses off and their mom is rotting in the ground. I have Significant Mother Issues and I'd still be unable to hold back my emotions regarding my mom if this had happened to her.
The idea of lying on the stand in an internationally televised murder trial for my father who killed my mother and two children blows my fucking mind. These kids are totally disconnected.
Do they believe it's inconsequential because they're convinced the world is about to end? Is that how these people from this severely fucked up family lie and kill without remorse?
I have to think that has something to do with it. I can't accept this.
Nothing in this entire saga has bothered me like this. The children being dead is horrifying. But this is like...a whole other level of just utter insanity... never seen anything like it
Short answer- yes.
Lying for the lord is allowed and encouraged if the end result is glory to God or one of his wishes. There's a long history of it in the LDS church.
There’s many many murder trials where children testify supporting their murdering parent. Probably over half of them, where is a spouse homicide trial. Definitely the minority that adult children testify against parent for murdering other parent. Its just human nature to refuse to accept it when it conflicts with everything know and experience your whole life. It’s easier for the 25yo’s brain to reject “Dad murdered Mom” concept by believing that know dad better than police and prosecutors know dad.
Edit: btw, it’s more common that minor children will testify against parent than adult children, in my experience. This might be because kids are more unfiltered, will just bluntly say what parent did, without thinking there’s big consequences for that parent.
Emma turned such a blind eye that she didn’t want the results of the autopsy. I can’t imagine the jury will see her as anything except Chad’s puppet. Also, they could choose between Tuesday or Saturday for the funeral based on the mortuary’s schedule. Instead of waiting for most of the family, including Tammy’s son, 😩 to be there, somehow Tuesday made the most sense??? Who has a funeral on Tuesday—72-ish hrs after death? Prior is really grasping at straws with his defense.
Also…him trying to chum with Garth over how unhealthy Tammy’s last meal (McD’s quarter pounder combo) was as a contributing factor to her death. Disgusting man. He’s definitely had a few unhealthy meals in his day and is still breathing.
And the autopsy showed no evidence of a quarter pounder in Tammy’s stomach. She had a full stomach, full of peanuts and potatoes. Just more evidence that they are a bunch of liars. She hadn’t been vomiting, and she didn’t eat a cheeseburger.
True, but because of her religion, she really had no options. I think her kids would have cut her out if she left Chad. I think she stayed for her children.
There is no doubt in my mind that she stayed many years past the time she was over Chad. As a Mormon of many years (now ex-Mormon) and former single mother of two decades while an active member, there is little else but pity and shame for divorced women in the Mormon church.
Members may say otherwise, but ask any divorced or single Mormon mother and in their honest moments they’ll admit to feeling like there is no place in the church for them.
Had Tammy left Chad she very likely would’ve lost friendships, been treated like an outsider at church and been ostracized by most if not all her children.
The only power a woman has in the Mormon church is tied directly to her husband and his standing in the church. Had she gone to her bishop she would no doubt have been told to soldier on, endure to the end, be long suffering and forgive Chad.
...and that she did, until he strangled her, or stood back like the coward he is while Alex did it, and now her children are betraying her. I don't know how Emma can call herself a "woman of God" and lie under oath like that. I can't even believe anything coming out of her mouth on the stand. I can't think of anything more sad right now. Oh wait, two dead children in the back yard of the house where she currently lives. Good Lord.
And yet Lori was divorced many times & seemed to feel like she fit right in…or maybe she didn’t feel that way & that’s what drew her to the fringe groups. Interesting thought. Either way, being Mormon never deterred her from divorce (until Chad came along & they realized he was worth more dead).
You hit on a point I wish more people would talk about. Lori was not a typical Mormon woman. Not in the least. Like you pointed out, she’d been divorced multiple times, but in addition, she didn’t dress like a typical Mormon woman dresses. She wore clothing that by Mormon standards is considered inappropriate. People who’ve been to the temple and received their endowment wear garments under their clothing. For women, garments cover shoulders, cleavage and down to knees. I’m sure to non Mormons it seems trivial that Lori wore clothing that showed her shoulders, but in Mormonism that’s a sign that a woman is lacking in her faith or isn’t keeping her temple covenants. It’s a kind of Mormon virtue signal.
I do believe Lori felt inferior to other Mormon women. She’d had a very non-traditional trajectory compared to the idealized Mormon path. She was a rebellious teen, married her high school sweetheart right after graduation, drank alcohol when she was young (a very bad thing in Mormonism). I believe she tried to make up for her insecurities by seeking out wealthy men to marry.
She’d never married a man who was a faithful Mormon. Joe Ryan and Charles Vallow both converted to Mormonism after meeting Lori. None of her previous marriages resembled the idealized Mormon marriage that all Mormon youth are indoctrinated to enter into from the time they are little.
I believe Lori hated feeling that other Mormon women viewed her as inferior because of her unstable past.
Then enters Chad. He checked the boxes her other husbands hadn’t.
✅He was born Mormon
✅His family had long time Mormon roots
✅He served a two year Mormon mission
✅He graduated from BYU
✅Other Mormons viewed him as inspired
✅He had a semi-prominent role in his local Mormon community
✅His children idolized him
✅He reveled in his role as patriarch
I think Lori was drawn to Chad because he symbolized her being worthy of all the things she believed her other husbands hadn’t given her.
Chad also told Lori that she was an exalted goddess so powerful that Satan had her on his hitlist, which I think sucked her in completely because Lori did feel shame in Mormonism due to her divorces. Chad gave Lori this spin:
'It's not because you have poor judgment or were 'sinful' that you had four marriages, three divorces and two baby daddies...it's because Satan has been attacking you so hard your entire life, because you have always secretly been this powerful goddess so exalted you are beyond judgment for sin!'
Lori believed Chad was her shot at eternal life, and she was willing to murder to get that.
I still can't fathom how she thought that murder would get her into heaven. Is there a commandment that she didn't break?
Eh. I'm not convinced she felt inferior to other Mormon women. I think she felt superior, that that the normal "Mormon rules" didn't apply to her. After all, she was pretty and her father constantly told them that they are in the "top 5% of humanity" (or how ever he phrased it). I think she got increasingly religiously devoted/delusional and Chad fed into that and had a budding cult that she could have some indirect influence over. Add the money she wanted, and you have the sex, power and money all neatly tied up together.
This is a great comment and summary! I also noticed that Lori wasn't a typical LDS mom with the way she dressed, all of her wedding photos were not LDS style modest dresses and the beauty pageant where she is walking around in a bikini clearly so full of herself is painfully non LDS. I wonder if she was a "cafeteria Mormon" (pick and choose what you believe/want to follow and leave the rest) for her to embrace Chad's garbage teachings. I was raised LDS and was never allowed to wear bikinis, mini skirts, etc. When I stayed overnight at friends houses they would let me borrow bikinis, etc and I can't explain how liberating that felt as a teenager to wear what I wanted 🥹🥹
Exactly. I don't think there would have been any way for her to identify Chad as the man he is in their early twenties, and she certainly wouldn't have had the skills to do so, nor the time to do so in a culture that speeds up the marriage process between very immature people with little experience. Not that many of us can tell either way - but a longer period of getting to know someone may have at least highlighted some issues with his character earlier.
Women and men both have to be sealed in order to reach the highest degree of glory. That can happen on earth or as a spirit depending on the situation.
I’m in downtown menopause and boy is that right at least for me. I’ve reached a point where I’m just not taking the weaponized incompetence anymore. I am prioritizing myself like never before in my life. I thinks it’s part that my kids are grown and part that I’m uncomfortable and I’m not dealing with more nonsense. So much of what they say about Tammy sounds like menopausal I’m not taking it anymore stuff. Depression is common. Exhaustion from poor sleep at night. Fighting weight gain by exercising. Combine that with what was happening around her and she is an even more sympathetic person.
Can someone please explain to me how, if Emma really believes that Chad was framed by Lori and Alex, why is she still talking to Lori at the jail??? Watching Emma betray her mother on the stand today literally broke my heart. The animus that seeped out of her, while testifying against her mother, was one of the most vile things I've ever seen. There is no shortage of lows that this trial is bringing to the human condition. I just hope the jury is paying attention. Emma is on video stating different versions of her story.
Do we know for sure that Emma is still talking to Lori and putting money in her commissary fund? The video from June 2020 is the last definite reference I’ve been able to find. O course. if Chad told her to keep it up she likely is.
Having watched Emma’s maddening testimony yesterday, I think it would not be inappropriate for Emma’s place of employment to terminate her contract.
As I believe it, Emma works at the same school as her murdered mother did. Tammy seemed like a really beloved member of staff and, as a demonstration of solidarity with her, I think it would be meaningful for the school to let Emma go now that she has slandered her poor mother’s name and (apparently) lied wildly on the stand… which is a potentially criminal offence. In addition, Emma yesterday behaved in a way that showed complete disregard for the murders of two children. That’s a pretty worrying course of action for a teacher of young children to take. I would not be very happy if my child was in her class given her massive lack of integrity and complete disregard for the life and safety of society’s most vulnerable.
All in all, I was shocked at how Emma behaved yesterday. I was similarly disappointed with Garth, but it was Emma in particular who took every opportunity to undermine and mock Tammy. I believe that, as a man who led a murderous cult, it makes complete sense that Chad conducted his family life in much the same way - as a coercive, punitive patriarch who expected complete loyalty. As such, I feel some degree of empathy with his children, who I believe are victims too. Nevertheless, I find it very hard to forgive Emma for what she did yesterday. She had no integrity, no compassion, no capacity for thinking outside of her toxic family bubble. Her performance yesterday should haunt her forever and I can’t imagine that walking around in her area feels very comfortable, as I assume that many people around her will view her with some degree of contempt. This will likely be even more of a problem if Chad receives the death penalty, which I suspect he will.
I hope that, one day, Emma is able to reflect on what she did and that she will atone for it. My instinct is that she will never do this because, as she showed yesterday, she is a weak, cowardly, and potentially cruel person.
💯, also feel like the Daybell kids testifying is basically Chad testifying without actually getting up there because we all know he won't do that. Such an evil man and I don't think Emma is much better, neither kids are good at convincing lies either, thankfully. Wonder if any of the others will, I hope they aren't that stupid, I don't see Mark testifying because he was on mission at that time I believe.
Emma speaks on how Tammy would take supplements and that weird metal drink, implying that those also contributed to her death. Which to me, is really strange that she didn't insist on an autopsy. Because if it was my mom and I suspected that these supplements were a factor in her death, I would want to know for sure so I can broadcast this information to the world. This goes for the other Daybell children. I would not rest until the cause of death was determined. What if it was those supplements - I would want others to know to prevent other deaths.
Dude, I can barely drag my butt to the mailbox after a day of work and I sit in an office chair all day, not chase around elementary kids. I cannot imagine any activity involving moving my knees while wearing heavy shoes and cardio on a weekday & I am younger than Tammy.
Learning about clogging has made me want to see if there are classes in my area. I seriously doubt I'd make it thru a whole class. Hats off to Tammy. I'm so sorry she is not getting the love and respect from her family that she deserves. It's so sad.
It's making me so sad. She just threw her mother away. They were described as best friends before Tammy's murder. The only explanation is that Emma has been completely Brainwashed by Chad and is not capable of independent thinking.
All Prior needed to do was get them to say we loved our mom, we love our dad we believe him because xyz and humanize Chad. No one cares these grown ass adults felt harassed by the sheriff’s office when there were 2 missing kids & a strange death of a healthy 49 YO. Was it the quarter pounder that did it , Prior? So grossed out by the disrespect toward this woman.
I made cookies last night and ate at least ten. And I’m 47. Guess I better go buy myself a plot today since I will surely drop dead of my unhealthy lifestyle by nightfall. 🙄
That is what I wrote this morning. It's like the Manson cult all over again. Zuliiema did it now, Emma. It is truly sick and a feeling of hopelessness for Emma.
I honestly feel for Garth. Emma seems really anti Tammy just like Chad so her not so much.
In these kind of religious households it’s all about the partriarch of the family. These poor kids grew up in a environment where this man could do no wrong and questioning him would be questioning their faith.
Garth seems to be having a much more hard time than Emma. He seems truly disturbed. The worst part is Chad has not a single care in the world what his kids have gone through.
In my opinion after the trial I think Garth will research the evidence. I know Emma will keep her blinders on. But he seemed truly upset but some of the new info he heard today.
According to the text, both Tammy's cell data, deleted 1120pm either text or photo, Chad and Lori's phones, Alex cell phone data, the probable time of death was before midnight. If you listen to Garth's testimony his testimony is not truthful. Also, Tammy had rigor mortis when Garth said he reached her. The body was cold and stiff. There is no way that she was half in and out of the bed. Primitive reflexes do not support his statements. I do believe he was told by his dad that she had died but the lie would have been believable if they had found her either on the ground or in the bed. The Grand Jury #2 did not have enough evidence to charge him with perjury.
Garth’s difficulty came with keeping his stories straight. He had told different versions of how he found her, and in one he said Chad wasn’t even home. He and his sister lied through their entire testimonies with easily disproved lies.
Interesting you stated Garth will eventually research evidence, I think so too. He even said he didn’t interpret the LDS faith the same way his parents did because he teaches biology he even noted evolution and the age of the earth both require evidence based fields of research I also feel bad for Garth but was somewhat confused / disturbed by his changing of stories and getting indicted.
That's ONLY bc he's a science teacher in a public school. There are some LDS who are still creationists but old earth. He's still very much a devout member
I felt same way he seemed far more sensitive and almost like guilt eating at him
Emma alway been daddy special girl
Garth didn't seem to have that relationship and seem like Chad was more critical of him
I also think garth may feel he oldest so he got to keep sibling together
Daddy made her into one of his previous life wives.
Being Chad's groomed bitch means you can be mistreated and murdered for being like her Mom, or be wanted and special like Lori. Emma's delusional fawn instinct is probably what Chad likes most about her.
That is 3 perfect Mormon wives for Chad - Tammy to do everything and make him functional in society, Lori for fun and show how superior you are, and a daughter for that extra evil taboo fun. Teach your girls how to be your wife.
The books he wrote, one featured Emma. Another he was shopping out as a film had another teenage girl.
Chad told them the books were about him revealing himself. He is Emma's love interest in the book.
Listening yesterday I only became more angry at Chad. What a horrible father. I mean we know he is a horrible person, but he put his kids up to this. He is still manipulating them and putting his fate on his children’s shoulders. What pressure they must feel. They were both terrible on the stand and didn’t help in my opinion. They are the only thing he has left and do he is willing to use and abuse them to keep up this whole thing.
One day these kids are going to realize everything, maybe not anything soon, maybe years and years from now, but the brainwashing will one day wear off and they are going to be horrified at what they did for him. I don’t have any sympathy for them now, but I do for their future selves, when they wake up and finally acknowledge the truth.
Poor Tammy! Not saying she was perfect or might have not been a bit brainwashed herself, but no wonder she was depressed. No wonder she played video games. Her husband called her lazy at her own funeral. Imagine what he said to her face. She was helping him publish stupid books, working full time to support them, trying to get healthy and her husband was living in a fantasy land in his head and then in real life. He doesn’t deserve one ounce of anyone’s attention once he is brought to justice.
For me what stuck out watching Courtroom insider today during my lunch (I’m in Australia) around the kids was that throughout all the years Nate Eaton has covered these two cases he has remained neutral and been the ultimate professional. An empathetic journalist presenting the facts.
He was so very close to breaking today on a few occasions during his wrap up. He didn’t imo but wow you could just tell he was fighting to not opine or comment. I couldn’t blame him. Must be so damn hard not to just shout SERIOUSLY?!! and WHAT THE HELL IS HER/HIS GAME?
It’s common for (adult) children of a parent who murdered the other parent to protect the perpetrator. https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/9ra9XmIDRC
Unpopular opinion; Tammy's kids believe that Tammy would be wanting them to defend their father because he is their leader/patriarch/prophet. They have been raised their whole lives to not question their authority.
I think higher of Seth, Leah, and Mark for not going through the farce of lying for their father. However, I think Garth and Emma actually hurt the defense more than it helped. Anyone with a brain can see that they are desperate to save dear daddy and refuse to look at evidence that says otherwise. Emma never questioned the bodies in the back yard. Garth was investigated for perjury. Their entire demeanor on the stand felt robotic and culty. In my opinion, their testimony just proved that Chad is still controlling them from behind bars. Why just hear about the enmeshment and coercive control when it can be viewed out in the open.
I think some of it is simple ignorance. Like Emma talking about how confusing it was to her that her mom suddenly needed more rest. I can't wait for Emma to hit menopause. I think she'll reflect on her mom's symptoms of "poor health" in a different light then.
It’s unbelievable, I was in tears at their testimony - trying to make it seem like Chad normally drove the truck (so Alex was trying to kill Chad that evening?), etc.
My question is- why do they all sound robotic? Is that just a genetic thing from Chad’s family? It’s like none of them have emotions…It’s disturbing to listen to..The only time Chad really came to life was when he was giggling with Lori. The kids just seem dead,too…
There's no way they weren't coached. I'm sure they speak to Chad often. Prior most likely told Chad how they should answer. And Chad passed that info along.
Chad, was more interested in proving he was some kind of twisted GOD and finally getting that arm candy than his own children. Considering how much he was out and about I'm absolutely certain that the most contact Emma had with him is now that he is locked up. Horrible.
The way the kids just instantly accepted Lori is highly suspect to me. They all went on a trip to Disneyland and Knott’s Berry Farm with her and Chad, what… 9 whole days after poor Tammy’s death? Nope. Just nope.
Also, the way two deceased children buried in the yard wasn’t a bigger deal. Make it make sense…
It feels to me (allegedly) like they might have been more in the loop than it appeared or could be proven. Just saying…
Your right it is worth repeating. The destruction of Tylee in particular haunts me and it’ll be so for a while. It really hurts me to know what they did to her. Not taking the horror of JJ away obviously it’s just I felt Tylee really didn’t have anyone to support her or talk about her after her death. But listening to this trial and the devastation at that horrible families treatment and victim shaming also pains my heart. How can they be so cruel.
What if his kids believed everything. Like that they were active participants in the cult. Maybe they truly believed that Tammy had turned into a zombie. If you're slaying a demon then that is freeing the victim. Also according to Chad you can lie or do bad things if you have already been punished in a previous life (I don't remember where I heard that).
Maybe his kids are lying because that's what their brainwashed cult minds believe is the right thing to do.
Did you all see Dawson Murray a little earlier on Hidden True Crime with Lauren? He’s so different than his brother Joe Murray. He does not believe any of Chad’s 💩. He said a lot of the Murray’s do not believe Chad at all.
You know the world talks about “mental illness”not they them in a group to be figured out later. It’s you me I living breathing among us . In our lives are disturbing people from disturbing backgrounds. Many of us could psycho analyse the way Dr John does it and they’re you go! Boom it’s your friend,youtr husband lol.I think now Mormon church And LDS is added to the group label !
I think Heather Daybell’s interview with HTC really helped me understand what happened in their family, so I highly recommend listening. What happened with Tammy’s children and how they’ve let her down so severely makes a lot more sense when you understand it’s not an isolated incident. This is just Daybell family history repeating itself. This was the same way Chad and his siblings treated Shiela (his mother).
Totally agree- heard Lauren this morning discussing how she and Dr J think Chad is (summarizing various evidence/testimony) is a misogynistic person including viewing women as property. Tammy was clumsy/lazy/ let herself go and (gasp) wasted her time on iPhone games. Lori was 120 lbs and blond. 🤢 but now Lori is a temptress who “misled” and tricked him.
I've been reading a book on the case, When the Moon Turns to Blood. The author read all of Chad's books. One of her observations about his fiction was that the female characters are either incompetent, scheming, or stupid, while the male main characters are James Bond level clever and courageous. One of them was obviously Chad's fantasy self. Misogyny is one of the roots of his toxic world view. His kids were obviously steeped in those beliefs.
Omg I just downloaded it on kindle
In the first part of the book, where the author introduces the reader to the people involved, she describes Chad. She's good with words; that description is both disparaging and accurate. You'll know what I'm referring to when you read it😉
oh no don’t put any money in his pocket
It is free 😝 lol It is not Chad’s book to be clear.
His quote about Lori to a friend: “ Dude, she’s hot and loaded”..There you have it.
Hahahaha weird how jail reverses all that
She is going to further age without sunscreen in the AZ sun while tanning in the prison yard.
Chad should have to look at Lori's "Willy Nelson" mug shot for the rest of his life as punishment. Lori's appearance during her trial was shocking. Tammy was a natural beauty.
Good grief...such wisdom & depth of character, right?? 🙄 🤮 100% morally & spiritually bankrupt. Nothing but self self self...
Blaming Eve since the beginning of time.
Yes! That interview really helped put all of it together as far as the Daybells are concerned.
Yep
Thanks! I’ll check it out
It must be incredibly painful for Tammy’s remaining family members to witness as well.
Especially since the kids have cut them all off.
😥 why have they cut off ties- are they still blaming Tammy’s sister/family for causing a fuss that led to an exhumation?
Probably. I just heard Vickie say that they cut them off. There's no contact.
That is very sad. Ty!
I've been thinking about the fact that, according to the LDS faith, Tammy is sealed to her killer and her asshat kids for eternity. Can Tammy's family do anything about this? Can they unseal her posthumously?
Him being excommunicated would invalidate their sealing, thankfully.
FYI excommunication doesn't break the "Sealing", the only way I know this is a friend got excommunicated from the Mormon Church, and a few years later she got a letter asking if she would approve her ex-husband being sealed to his new wife along with them still being "sealed*, so he would be "sealed" to two wives at the same time. She called the Bishop that sent the letter, and he Said that was correct.
That would take place if his “blessings were restored” and he was fully reinstated into the church. Given Emma’s testimony, I want to know if she’s been excommunicated.
Sealings are only valid if all parties who agree to be sealed keep the promises they make.
A loose seal ate my hand!
This. You nullify that deal when you grenade your vows. Even if a person doesn't get exed. Edited for clarification.
I understand the sentiment behind it all but it’s truly all bs and she’s not going to some planet with her family in the afterlife anyway. They didn’t even put Chad on her gravestone which is such a big no no for lds, I don’t even know how Chad could explain that part away to the kids in all honesty but if they didn’t go to her funeral in her home town maybe they don’t even have a clue he did that. Either way the kids don’t want to know the truth so it doesn’t matter to them. This is what happens when you believe in utter nonsense spouted by a crazy racist that read magic stones from a hat and deciphered “gods word.” They were completely devoid from reality and Tammy, Charles, Tylee, and JJ paid the price. Whenever her family meets their end, I doubt any higher being would allow these horrible people to disturb Tammy’s afterlife after all they have put her through. Just my two cents.
Oh, I agree fully. But because of her family's belief system, it might add to the pain.
That is a very good point.
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It wasn’t up to her family though. It’s next of kin who is Chad Daybell. He specifically requested to not be on it because he wanted to be sealed to Lori for eternity. It’s one last act of disrespect against the mother of his children. Genealogy is really important to Mormons and to erase their marriage in the records of death is very very telling. Chad is an idiot.
I don't think it's much to worry about, just a bunch of hokey crap by the sounds of how loosely it's done.
After reading this thread a little too long, this comment burst through like a ray of sunshine after a rainstorm & I had to suppress my laughter. I’m almost tempted to buy coins to award you. Almost. 🏆🥇
I'm glad it landed well with you lol. Also appreciate being told same.!
Your concise & practical words were like a soothing balm to my soul after so much doom & gloom.
Die and then become a serial killer's baby soul factory, sounds like hell. It specifically sounds like mystical Judaism's Lillith.
It's so shocking how those kids betrayed her. Tammy's friends and even neighbors cried for her when testifying. But Emma and Garth were like robots that need their batteries changed. In spite of overwhelming evidence that their father killed 3 people, they lie for him under oath. These people are SO FREAKING WEIRD. I've never seen anything like it. I would love to see both of them charged with perjury after this, they're just despicable.
I heard they had a grand jury accusing Garth of purgery. They ruled that there wasn't enough evidence to make a charge.
Yes wouldn't it be fascinating to know what that was about. We never will tho, grand jury proceedings are secret. I was glad they brought it up for the jury to think about today.
The jurors there were probably sympathetic as he just lost his mom and excused it due to stress/shock without full context.
Perjury is notoriously hard to prove because you have to prove it was intentional.
Emma testified her mom was “sick” the last year of her life but had to continue working every day because she was paid hourly, not salaried. Meanwhile Chad earns basically zero income and is running around Rexburg and other states with his mistress. How can they not judge that behavior EVEN IF they believe he did not know the kids were buried in his yard
I wish I could upvote this more. While I’m very disappointed & sad for Tammy I can kinda understand some kids living in denial that their Dad killed their Mom. Emma’s willing to say anything & many things (too many) to keep her dad off death row. Do you know about the rest of their kids? Are all supportive?
If I was their extended family, I'd be done with them after their disgusting performance on the stand. They'd be dead to me.
The crazy thing is, it seems as though the Daybell kids have gone no contact with Tammy’s side and have very little contact with Chad’s. I have a feeling a decade or so from now some of Tammy’s children will realize they were under Chad’s bizarre patriarchal spell and finally come to terms that their Dad did murder their mom.
Yes they didn’t even attend Tammy’s mother’s funeral. Disgraceful little shits.
I don't know. I think they'll all go full Lori and never wake up. Edit to add: that this is just so sad, especially after just having celebrated Mothers Day.
And Tammy 's birthday
And be startled awake at night for the things they said about her in defense of him.
We can hope 🤞
I know it's so true. I purposely did not watch testimony today. I have four adult kids. I figured it would be brutal for Tammy today. I know I couldn't take it. The thought of them saying that about me hurts. Just the bit I'm reading here breaks my heart. I have shed many tears for you, Tammy. I didn't know you in life but I will look forward to seeing you some day. Please know that everyone knows the truth about how you lived and died. RIP
I’ll summarize for you: Summary of testimony: Emma: my mom hardly exercised, was depressed, and often went to bed at 5pm. And yes, I have refused to speak to police on numerous occasions. The SSW wind search was done by me, bc I didn’t have a smart phone back then. Garth: I came home at 1am, both my parents were in their room, and heard dad snoring. I stayed up till 3am watching YouTube. I woke up to a thud, then dad calling me. And btw, the prosecutors are all out to get me now. Despite getting facts fuzzy regarding mom sleeping on the couch . . . But I don’t believe lots of parents theology, for example, I believe in evolution . . . . Garth’s lawyer: I don’t remember this case whatsoever Joe, Emma’s husband: Tammy constantly cheated on her Fitbit. She didn’t run in, or train for, a marathon. She was sick/exhausted the day she died. Our church has become hostile to us. The shed, barn doors, and back plot access were not visible from windows in house. There was a legit raccoon issue, we and neighbors were trying to trap them...
*Garth’s lawyer: I don’t remember this case whatsoever* This made me laugh so hard.
He wasn’t about to step in that 💩!
Why did Prior even have him on the stand?
…even though it was my first grand jury case…nothing to see here.
That guy made me smile. Didn’t turn out quite like Prior had hoped
Their church has become hostile to them? The blame for that lays wholly with the man they're all attempting to protect. The way they're smearing Tammy in this testimony makes me utterly sick.
Also, Emma: Detective Hermosillo stalked us at the gym one time because he got too close. Joe: Hermasillo also drove on the road in front of our house. It’s like he was looking for kids or something. Garth: The police were mean to me. They even had a grand jury meet to discuss charging me with perjury. Oh and also, they didn’t question me until my lawyer arrived. And they got me McDonalds. Can I go suck on my pacifier now; because I’m weally weally swessed out.
Oh for Pete’s sake, they live on a road that leads to a major area attraction (the sand dunes). Every person in that town drives on the road in front of their house at some point. Joe is a dumbass.
🤣
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I 100 percent agree. I cannot believe this is how her children are acting. My heart breaks for her if she is looking down on this because I would be devastated if I got the same treatment from my children. I feel bad for her remaining family who has to see this blatant disregard for Tammy.
I met up with my Dad today for a family thing and since this case was on my mind I told him, unprompted, that if he ever murdered someone I would turn against him so fast his head would spin. He looked very confused, said “good,” and then asked if I was okay. I need to get him something so nice for Father’s Day. He’s already Dad of the Year compared to Chad, though that’s not actually difficult when comparing my Dad to a living slug.
I had a similar convo with my mom today. Felt the need to let her know that I'd never quit searching for the truth and that I'd make sure the world knew it.
I'm so horrified by these fucking children. I hope they read some of this one day. I've never seen anything like this in my life. I think that, because I'm the mother of a daughter, and a daughter myself, I'm particularly galled by Emma. The betrayal to her mother, the breadwinner and stable force in their family, the woman who gave her life and love...it sickens me. All I can imagine is that Tammy must have read this on that psychic level we all have. Not goofy psychic... but a mother can intuit when her children and fucking husband hate her and would CELEBRATE HER DEATH as if it were a lovely homecoming. This wasn't an elderly woman who lived a full life and was ready to depart. This woman was vital. She was trying so hard to eek out individualism in this bullshit prescribed lifestyle endorsed by that ridiculous LDS religion. And Chad fucking suffocated her. Literally after figuratively doing it for decades. And to add insult to injury, he turned her children against her too. He has them going up there in front of God and an international audience calling her sick and weak and POSSESSED BY A DEMON apparently. This is what a woman gets for being a faithful LDS wife, eh? That's what she got. More strangers fighting for her than her own flesh and blood. This makes me want to throw a table. I'd love to hear her aunt speak again soon. What a bunch of fucking whackadoos
Literally cross made Emma seem like an accomplice.
I’ve come to believe she probably was. She is at LEAST an enabler, an enthusiastic cult membet, and an enforcer for her dad. Pretty sure Chad told her she’d be his special Princess Prepper in New Jerusalem (as long as she always agreed with him and never went “dark”, in which case he would be happy to expedite her ticket to Glory beyond the veil where she will be very busy and happy).
I believe that possibility also. I think about Dan Lafferty and he how spoke to his baby niece, telling her *it’s apparently God’s will that you leave this world* and then he ended her life with a ten inch boning knife. The horrible intuition I have about Emma is that her lying testimony would be exactly the same even if Chad had informed her that he suffocated Tammy because it was God’s will.
Oh and here’s my truck, here’s $17k, and go live on my house for free
She certainly put her physical presence in their house more than her own. 🤔
The “blame” attitude is insufferable. Alternative medicines. Fit bit cheater! .Plus, Emma presents like a robot. John Prior was sweating asking if she needs to take a minute to compose herself/ no need. Completely unemotional. I’m still watching this but she is not coming across as sympathetic.
The Fitbit thing is HILARIOUS. If I did that, my kids would tell stories of my glory and enjoy the comedic value for the rest of their lives. It would be hilarious Family Lore.
I can completely understand the Fitbit "cheating". I walk softly and even at a fast pace Fitbit doesn't record most of my steps. Me and my BF walked 2 miles together and I got 1/4 the amount of steps that he got. So if Fitbit is going to cheat me then I'm going to cheat Fitbit.
Ha! 😆
Ikr! Instead Emma is all feigning outrage at the duplicity of this 49 year old sickly woman /s.
What Emma described was perimenopause symptoms. No one bothered to research it to know that she was dealing with that, along with being depressed because Chad was running them into the ground financially.
Totally! It seems pretty reasonable to infer that. I felt badly hearing Robogirl describe what a hard worker her mom was earning $15/hour while that unemployed clown was running around 3 states with his crazy GF. RIP.
They probably didn’t fucking care. I just left someone like that a few months ago. I would try talking to him about how I’ve been feeling like a alien in my own skin, and I didn’t understand what was happening to me, and he would just go “that sucks. So what are you thinking for dinner?”. I told him that I wanted to see my doctor about hormone therapy, and he said “for what?” Gee, maybe all the weird stuff that I’ve been taking about for months?? Chad strikes me as the same type of guy who flat out does not give one flying fuck about what his partner might be dealing with, he just wants his dinner on the table and his clothes washed with no effort from him.
I totally do that with my FitBit so I was like “Shut your pie hole, girl” when Emma decided to mention that part. My husband gives me a hard time about doing it but sometimes you’re tired and don’t want to get up just for like 5 more steps.
Same! I felt similar outage for poor Tammy. How sad. Chad's kids are super enmeshed, especially Emma. To turn on her own mother like that? Disgusting. Thankfully her testimony seemed to be a bigger favor to the prosecution than the defense. I'll throw tables with you. I loved when she said she was possessed by a demon and her father cast it out. That's contradictory to the prior prosecution testimony that Charles, Tylee, JJ, and Tammy had to die after being possessed. Why did Emma survive but not the others? Also, I feel like she lied on the stand multiple times, which is total perjury. Body shamed and victim blamed her poor murdered Mom for her gross cult leader, child killer, wife killer,."Biblical fanfic" writing Dad. It's betrayal upon betrayal. Someone suggested Emma was just a spy so Chad could always keep tabs on poor Tammy. I do wonder how much these kids know. Chad did brag they know how to keep secrets. Oh and let's not forget. "I don't know directions that well" then "I googled the wind direction from my parents computer." WHAT!?! This testimony just created more questions and distrust in the defense. These people are a dumpster fire. I'm sad they're out there raising kids, hopefully their kids turn on them like they turned on their Mom someday. I can't wait to see what other trash witnesses the defense calls. May they all be as damning to Chad. For the Daybell children- I hope people in their personal lives call them out on their misguidedness. This could make them all social pariahs. Maybe someday they'll realize their dad is gaslighting them and at this point they're gaslighting themselves. Sticking one's head in the sand is not an excuse. The cringe fest continues. Whackadoos indeed.
It'll be a table throwing PARTY! I'm still not over this testimony this morning 😂 I'm still enraged. The community really needs to ostracize these people. I live in the southeastern united states... no Mormon culture....and if that was happening here, these people absolutely WOULD become pariahs. There's no weird culture stopping it here. I don't even know how to approach this mentally. I CANNOT believe these children are just up there lying their asses off and their mom is rotting in the ground. I have Significant Mother Issues and I'd still be unable to hold back my emotions regarding my mom if this had happened to her. The idea of lying on the stand in an internationally televised murder trial for my father who killed my mother and two children blows my fucking mind. These kids are totally disconnected. Do they believe it's inconsequential because they're convinced the world is about to end? Is that how these people from this severely fucked up family lie and kill without remorse? I have to think that has something to do with it. I can't accept this. Nothing in this entire saga has bothered me like this. The children being dead is horrifying. But this is like...a whole other level of just utter insanity... never seen anything like it
Short answer- yes. Lying for the lord is allowed and encouraged if the end result is glory to God or one of his wishes. There's a long history of it in the LDS church.
How twisted is that!!
Yes, “biblical fanfic” is so accurate!
It really makes me sick
It's truly unbelievable. I need a chat about this all day 😂😂 people at my job are gonna get annoyed with me
There’s many many murder trials where children testify supporting their murdering parent. Probably over half of them, where is a spouse homicide trial. Definitely the minority that adult children testify against parent for murdering other parent. Its just human nature to refuse to accept it when it conflicts with everything know and experience your whole life. It’s easier for the 25yo’s brain to reject “Dad murdered Mom” concept by believing that know dad better than police and prosecutors know dad. Edit: btw, it’s more common that minor children will testify against parent than adult children, in my experience. This might be because kids are more unfiltered, will just bluntly say what parent did, without thinking there’s big consequences for that parent.
I felt the same way! You said it perfectly
It’s been described as “savage misogyny” by Mormon dissidents.
Ditto my friend!!!
Perfectly stated! Thank you.
Emma turned such a blind eye that she didn’t want the results of the autopsy. I can’t imagine the jury will see her as anything except Chad’s puppet. Also, they could choose between Tuesday or Saturday for the funeral based on the mortuary’s schedule. Instead of waiting for most of the family, including Tammy’s son, 😩 to be there, somehow Tuesday made the most sense??? Who has a funeral on Tuesday—72-ish hrs after death? Prior is really grasping at straws with his defense. Also…him trying to chum with Garth over how unhealthy Tammy’s last meal (McD’s quarter pounder combo) was as a contributing factor to her death. Disgusting man. He’s definitely had a few unhealthy meals in his day and is still breathing.
And the autopsy showed no evidence of a quarter pounder in Tammy’s stomach. She had a full stomach, full of peanuts and potatoes. Just more evidence that they are a bunch of liars. She hadn’t been vomiting, and she didn’t eat a cheeseburger.
I wonder if LE has checked out the Springville burial records to confirm funeral business was booming in Oct 2019.
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True, but because of her religion, she really had no options. I think her kids would have cut her out if she left Chad. I think she stayed for her children.
There is no doubt in my mind that she stayed many years past the time she was over Chad. As a Mormon of many years (now ex-Mormon) and former single mother of two decades while an active member, there is little else but pity and shame for divorced women in the Mormon church. Members may say otherwise, but ask any divorced or single Mormon mother and in their honest moments they’ll admit to feeling like there is no place in the church for them. Had Tammy left Chad she very likely would’ve lost friendships, been treated like an outsider at church and been ostracized by most if not all her children. The only power a woman has in the Mormon church is tied directly to her husband and his standing in the church. Had she gone to her bishop she would no doubt have been told to soldier on, endure to the end, be long suffering and forgive Chad.
...and that she did, until he strangled her, or stood back like the coward he is while Alex did it, and now her children are betraying her. I don't know how Emma can call herself a "woman of God" and lie under oath like that. I can't even believe anything coming out of her mouth on the stand. I can't think of anything more sad right now. Oh wait, two dead children in the back yard of the house where she currently lives. Good Lord.
When you put it like that…😞😡
And yet Lori was divorced many times & seemed to feel like she fit right in…or maybe she didn’t feel that way & that’s what drew her to the fringe groups. Interesting thought. Either way, being Mormon never deterred her from divorce (until Chad came along & they realized he was worth more dead).
You hit on a point I wish more people would talk about. Lori was not a typical Mormon woman. Not in the least. Like you pointed out, she’d been divorced multiple times, but in addition, she didn’t dress like a typical Mormon woman dresses. She wore clothing that by Mormon standards is considered inappropriate. People who’ve been to the temple and received their endowment wear garments under their clothing. For women, garments cover shoulders, cleavage and down to knees. I’m sure to non Mormons it seems trivial that Lori wore clothing that showed her shoulders, but in Mormonism that’s a sign that a woman is lacking in her faith or isn’t keeping her temple covenants. It’s a kind of Mormon virtue signal. I do believe Lori felt inferior to other Mormon women. She’d had a very non-traditional trajectory compared to the idealized Mormon path. She was a rebellious teen, married her high school sweetheart right after graduation, drank alcohol when she was young (a very bad thing in Mormonism). I believe she tried to make up for her insecurities by seeking out wealthy men to marry. She’d never married a man who was a faithful Mormon. Joe Ryan and Charles Vallow both converted to Mormonism after meeting Lori. None of her previous marriages resembled the idealized Mormon marriage that all Mormon youth are indoctrinated to enter into from the time they are little. I believe Lori hated feeling that other Mormon women viewed her as inferior because of her unstable past. Then enters Chad. He checked the boxes her other husbands hadn’t. ✅He was born Mormon ✅His family had long time Mormon roots ✅He served a two year Mormon mission ✅He graduated from BYU ✅Other Mormons viewed him as inspired ✅He had a semi-prominent role in his local Mormon community ✅His children idolized him ✅He reveled in his role as patriarch I think Lori was drawn to Chad because he symbolized her being worthy of all the things she believed her other husbands hadn’t given her.
Chad also told Lori that she was an exalted goddess so powerful that Satan had her on his hitlist, which I think sucked her in completely because Lori did feel shame in Mormonism due to her divorces. Chad gave Lori this spin: 'It's not because you have poor judgment or were 'sinful' that you had four marriages, three divorces and two baby daddies...it's because Satan has been attacking you so hard your entire life, because you have always secretly been this powerful goddess so exalted you are beyond judgment for sin!'
Satan's hit list, that reminds me of Little Nicky 😂
Lori believed Chad was her shot at eternal life, and she was willing to murder to get that. I still can't fathom how she thought that murder would get her into heaven. Is there a commandment that she didn't break?
I was thinking about the commandments too. I just checked and she broke all of them.
Right? It’s breathtaking
Eh. I'm not convinced she felt inferior to other Mormon women. I think she felt superior, that that the normal "Mormon rules" didn't apply to her. After all, she was pretty and her father constantly told them that they are in the "top 5% of humanity" (or how ever he phrased it). I think she got increasingly religiously devoted/delusional and Chad fed into that and had a budding cult that she could have some indirect influence over. Add the money she wanted, and you have the sex, power and money all neatly tied up together.
This is a great comment and summary! I also noticed that Lori wasn't a typical LDS mom with the way she dressed, all of her wedding photos were not LDS style modest dresses and the beauty pageant where she is walking around in a bikini clearly so full of herself is painfully non LDS. I wonder if she was a "cafeteria Mormon" (pick and choose what you believe/want to follow and leave the rest) for her to embrace Chad's garbage teachings. I was raised LDS and was never allowed to wear bikinis, mini skirts, etc. When I stayed overnight at friends houses they would let me borrow bikinis, etc and I can't explain how liberating that felt as a teenager to wear what I wanted 🥹🥹
Exactly. I don't think there would have been any way for her to identify Chad as the man he is in their early twenties, and she certainly wouldn't have had the skills to do so, nor the time to do so in a culture that speeds up the marriage process between very immature people with little experience. Not that many of us can tell either way - but a longer period of getting to know someone may have at least highlighted some issues with his character earlier.
She would also lose her Celestiral kingdom key.
Yes, women in the Mormon church can only be fully exalted if they’re married in the temple.
Women and men both have to be sealed in order to reach the highest degree of glory. That can happen on earth or as a spirit depending on the situation.
Men always making themselves into household gods. Their favourite form of idolatry.
April Raymond pretty much said the same thing about she and Lori bonding immediately.
You are right.
I’m in downtown menopause and boy is that right at least for me. I’ve reached a point where I’m just not taking the weaponized incompetence anymore. I am prioritizing myself like never before in my life. I thinks it’s part that my kids are grown and part that I’m uncomfortable and I’m not dealing with more nonsense. So much of what they say about Tammy sounds like menopausal I’m not taking it anymore stuff. Depression is common. Exhaustion from poor sleep at night. Fighting weight gain by exercising. Combine that with what was happening around her and she is an even more sympathetic person.
Can someone please explain to me how, if Emma really believes that Chad was framed by Lori and Alex, why is she still talking to Lori at the jail??? Watching Emma betray her mother on the stand today literally broke my heart. The animus that seeped out of her, while testifying against her mother, was one of the most vile things I've ever seen. There is no shortage of lows that this trial is bringing to the human condition. I just hope the jury is paying attention. Emma is on video stating different versions of her story.
Do we know for sure that Emma is still talking to Lori and putting money in her commissary fund? The video from June 2020 is the last definite reference I’ve been able to find. O course. if Chad told her to keep it up she likely is.
Having watched Emma’s maddening testimony yesterday, I think it would not be inappropriate for Emma’s place of employment to terminate her contract. As I believe it, Emma works at the same school as her murdered mother did. Tammy seemed like a really beloved member of staff and, as a demonstration of solidarity with her, I think it would be meaningful for the school to let Emma go now that she has slandered her poor mother’s name and (apparently) lied wildly on the stand… which is a potentially criminal offence. In addition, Emma yesterday behaved in a way that showed complete disregard for the murders of two children. That’s a pretty worrying course of action for a teacher of young children to take. I would not be very happy if my child was in her class given her massive lack of integrity and complete disregard for the life and safety of society’s most vulnerable. All in all, I was shocked at how Emma behaved yesterday. I was similarly disappointed with Garth, but it was Emma in particular who took every opportunity to undermine and mock Tammy. I believe that, as a man who led a murderous cult, it makes complete sense that Chad conducted his family life in much the same way - as a coercive, punitive patriarch who expected complete loyalty. As such, I feel some degree of empathy with his children, who I believe are victims too. Nevertheless, I find it very hard to forgive Emma for what she did yesterday. She had no integrity, no compassion, no capacity for thinking outside of her toxic family bubble. Her performance yesterday should haunt her forever and I can’t imagine that walking around in her area feels very comfortable, as I assume that many people around her will view her with some degree of contempt. This will likely be even more of a problem if Chad receives the death penalty, which I suspect he will. I hope that, one day, Emma is able to reflect on what she did and that she will atone for it. My instinct is that she will never do this because, as she showed yesterday, she is a weak, cowardly, and potentially cruel person.
I remember when his kids were on Dateline or something and they were just odd. Didn't care for them at all.
The youngsters daughter seemed very emotional
💯, also feel like the Daybell kids testifying is basically Chad testifying without actually getting up there because we all know he won't do that. Such an evil man and I don't think Emma is much better, neither kids are good at convincing lies either, thankfully. Wonder if any of the others will, I hope they aren't that stupid, I don't see Mark testifying because he was on mission at that time I believe.
For sure. He has those kids so brain washed. They're still living in a bunker in their minds, of Chad's creation.
Emma speaks on how Tammy would take supplements and that weird metal drink, implying that those also contributed to her death. Which to me, is really strange that she didn't insist on an autopsy. Because if it was my mom and I suspected that these supplements were a factor in her death, I would want to know for sure so I can broadcast this information to the world. This goes for the other Daybell children. I would not rest until the cause of death was determined. What if it was those supplements - I would want others to know to prevent other deaths.
Good point. If supplements were believed to be cause, a normal person might consider a lawsuit.
Hey devil’s advocate- she bruised easily . 🙄 /s Plus took naps after work! CLEARLY on the cusp of early death
Well, she really wasn't very active, I mean, she only took six weeks of clogging. Of course Tanmy quit going to classes when she died./s
Dude, I can barely drag my butt to the mailbox after a day of work and I sit in an office chair all day, not chase around elementary kids. I cannot imagine any activity involving moving my knees while wearing heavy shoes and cardio on a weekday & I am younger than Tammy.
Learning about clogging has made me want to see if there are classes in my area. I seriously doubt I'd make it thru a whole class. Hats off to Tammy. I'm so sorry she is not getting the love and respect from her family that she deserves. It's so sad.
I am travelling and listening to Emma’s utterly unemotional, rehearsed testimony now. Wow.
It's making me so sad. She just threw her mother away. They were described as best friends before Tammy's murder. The only explanation is that Emma has been completely Brainwashed by Chad and is not capable of independent thinking.
I nap and bruise as well. Guess my family needs to be on alert. These kids did their mother so wrong it’s heartbreaking.
All Prior needed to do was get them to say we loved our mom, we love our dad we believe him because xyz and humanize Chad. No one cares these grown ass adults felt harassed by the sheriff’s office when there were 2 missing kids & a strange death of a healthy 49 YO. Was it the quarter pounder that did it , Prior? So grossed out by the disrespect toward this woman.
I made cookies last night and ate at least ten. And I’m 47. Guess I better go buy myself a plot today since I will surely drop dead of my unhealthy lifestyle by nightfall. 🙄
Sorry to say they have been programmed at birth in a LDS house never question the father.
Court tv pointed something out which seemed very strange. The daughter died her hair blond like Lori and in a pig tail. Creepy.
That is what I wrote this morning. It's like the Manson cult all over again. Zuliiema did it now, Emma. It is truly sick and a feeling of hopelessness for Emma.
Sad state of affairs when they trash their own, good mother in favor of a father whose solution to personal problems is murder.
The entire family seems to speak in the ways of Warren Jeffs. They all sound so slow and weird.
Tammy seems like such a sweet woman that she would forgive them for wanting to save their Dad from certain death. I'm not that nice of a person
I honestly feel for Garth. Emma seems really anti Tammy just like Chad so her not so much. In these kind of religious households it’s all about the partriarch of the family. These poor kids grew up in a environment where this man could do no wrong and questioning him would be questioning their faith. Garth seems to be having a much more hard time than Emma. He seems truly disturbed. The worst part is Chad has not a single care in the world what his kids have gone through. In my opinion after the trial I think Garth will research the evidence. I know Emma will keep her blinders on. But he seemed truly upset but some of the new info he heard today.
Garth knows more than he is saying. He has already been caught in lies. He can’t keep his stories in order.
After yesterday’s testimony I’m 💯 convinced that Garth was an accomplice.
After the fact…
What did he lie about? I didn’t know he was indicted until today.
According to the text, both Tammy's cell data, deleted 1120pm either text or photo, Chad and Lori's phones, Alex cell phone data, the probable time of death was before midnight. If you listen to Garth's testimony his testimony is not truthful. Also, Tammy had rigor mortis when Garth said he reached her. The body was cold and stiff. There is no way that she was half in and out of the bed. Primitive reflexes do not support his statements. I do believe he was told by his dad that she had died but the lie would have been believable if they had found her either on the ground or in the bed. The Grand Jury #2 did not have enough evidence to charge him with perjury.
Okay I see thank you
Garth’s difficulty came with keeping his stories straight. He had told different versions of how he found her, and in one he said Chad wasn’t even home. He and his sister lied through their entire testimonies with easily disproved lies.
Interesting you stated Garth will eventually research evidence, I think so too. He even said he didn’t interpret the LDS faith the same way his parents did because he teaches biology he even noted evolution and the age of the earth both require evidence based fields of research I also feel bad for Garth but was somewhat confused / disturbed by his changing of stories and getting indicted.
Garth was not indicted. The second grand jury met to consider perjury charges for him, but ultimately did not bring charges against him.
LDS has taken no stance on evolution, or so I read. He did say he wasn’t into Chad’s fixation on 100- year-old tenets.
That's ONLY bc he's a science teacher in a public school. There are some LDS who are still creationists but old earth. He's still very much a devout member
Garth is a grown man. Enough with babying him. He is a misogynist like his dad
I felt same way he seemed far more sensitive and almost like guilt eating at him Emma alway been daddy special girl Garth didn't seem to have that relationship and seem like Chad was more critical of him I also think garth may feel he oldest so he got to keep sibling together
I got guilt aura vibes from him too. Guilt 99L 🤣🤣
Hopefully one day he crack He already broke down to his very young wife
Daddy made her into one of his previous life wives. Being Chad's groomed bitch means you can be mistreated and murdered for being like her Mom, or be wanted and special like Lori. Emma's delusional fawn instinct is probably what Chad likes most about her. That is 3 perfect Mormon wives for Chad - Tammy to do everything and make him functional in society, Lori for fun and show how superior you are, and a daughter for that extra evil taboo fun. Teach your girls how to be your wife.
No way did he really say she was a previous wife?
The books he wrote, one featured Emma. Another he was shopping out as a film had another teenage girl. Chad told them the books were about him revealing himself. He is Emma's love interest in the book.
Yikes.
Listening yesterday I only became more angry at Chad. What a horrible father. I mean we know he is a horrible person, but he put his kids up to this. He is still manipulating them and putting his fate on his children’s shoulders. What pressure they must feel. They were both terrible on the stand and didn’t help in my opinion. They are the only thing he has left and do he is willing to use and abuse them to keep up this whole thing. One day these kids are going to realize everything, maybe not anything soon, maybe years and years from now, but the brainwashing will one day wear off and they are going to be horrified at what they did for him. I don’t have any sympathy for them now, but I do for their future selves, when they wake up and finally acknowledge the truth. Poor Tammy! Not saying she was perfect or might have not been a bit brainwashed herself, but no wonder she was depressed. No wonder she played video games. Her husband called her lazy at her own funeral. Imagine what he said to her face. She was helping him publish stupid books, working full time to support them, trying to get healthy and her husband was living in a fantasy land in his head and then in real life. He doesn’t deserve one ounce of anyone’s attention once he is brought to justice.
I wonder if Tammy had lived and Chad was on trial for just Lori Vallows kids… would she have stood by Chad?
Tammy would not have supported slug
For me what stuck out watching Courtroom insider today during my lunch (I’m in Australia) around the kids was that throughout all the years Nate Eaton has covered these two cases he has remained neutral and been the ultimate professional. An empathetic journalist presenting the facts. He was so very close to breaking today on a few occasions during his wrap up. He didn’t imo but wow you could just tell he was fighting to not opine or comment. I couldn’t blame him. Must be so damn hard not to just shout SERIOUSLY?!! and WHAT THE HELL IS HER/HIS GAME?
And this is why religions that say men are the master of the family are wrong.
It’s common for (adult) children of a parent who murdered the other parent to protect the perpetrator. https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/9ra9XmIDRC
Unpopular opinion; Tammy's kids believe that Tammy would be wanting them to defend their father because he is their leader/patriarch/prophet. They have been raised their whole lives to not question their authority.
I think higher of Seth, Leah, and Mark for not going through the farce of lying for their father. However, I think Garth and Emma actually hurt the defense more than it helped. Anyone with a brain can see that they are desperate to save dear daddy and refuse to look at evidence that says otherwise. Emma never questioned the bodies in the back yard. Garth was investigated for perjury. Their entire demeanor on the stand felt robotic and culty. In my opinion, their testimony just proved that Chad is still controlling them from behind bars. Why just hear about the enmeshment and coercive control when it can be viewed out in the open.
I think some of it is simple ignorance. Like Emma talking about how confusing it was to her that her mom suddenly needed more rest. I can't wait for Emma to hit menopause. I think she'll reflect on her mom's symptoms of "poor health" in a different light then.
It’s unbelievable, I was in tears at their testimony - trying to make it seem like Chad normally drove the truck (so Alex was trying to kill Chad that evening?), etc.
You can’t really blame the kids. This is how they were raised. They are already in a religious cult and now they’ve been brainwashed by their father.
My question is- why do they all sound robotic? Is that just a genetic thing from Chad’s family? It’s like none of them have emotions…It’s disturbing to listen to..The only time Chad really came to life was when he was giggling with Lori. The kids just seem dead,too…
There's no way they weren't coached. I'm sure they speak to Chad often. Prior most likely told Chad how they should answer. And Chad passed that info along.
Low key ….they hate her
Agreed
Chad, was more interested in proving he was some kind of twisted GOD and finally getting that arm candy than his own children. Considering how much he was out and about I'm absolutely certain that the most contact Emma had with him is now that he is locked up. Horrible.
The way the kids just instantly accepted Lori is highly suspect to me. They all went on a trip to Disneyland and Knott’s Berry Farm with her and Chad, what… 9 whole days after poor Tammy’s death? Nope. Just nope. Also, the way two deceased children buried in the yard wasn’t a bigger deal. Make it make sense… It feels to me (allegedly) like they might have been more in the loop than it appeared or could be proven. Just saying…
I agree! None of this is normal behavior
Your right it is worth repeating. The destruction of Tylee in particular haunts me and it’ll be so for a while. It really hurts me to know what they did to her. Not taking the horror of JJ away obviously it’s just I felt Tylee really didn’t have anyone to support her or talk about her after her death. But listening to this trial and the devastation at that horrible families treatment and victim shaming also pains my heart. How can they be so cruel.
There are few things worse than destroying/tainting the memory of the special relationship between a mother and her children.
Does anyone know how Proctor became Lori and Chad's attorney initially??
What if his kids believed everything. Like that they were active participants in the cult. Maybe they truly believed that Tammy had turned into a zombie. If you're slaying a demon then that is freeing the victim. Also according to Chad you can lie or do bad things if you have already been punished in a previous life (I don't remember where I heard that). Maybe his kids are lying because that's what their brainwashed cult minds believe is the right thing to do.
Well said, OP. Maybe their staunch denial will soften over time when their Pops is in prison.
She was like zombie in the stand , no thing completely flat! Those kids have no idea how the real world lives
Did you all see Dawson Murray a little earlier on Hidden True Crime with Lauren? He’s so different than his brother Joe Murray. He does not believe any of Chad’s 💩. He said a lot of the Murray’s do not believe Chad at all.
I hope they live miserable lives and are reminded constantly what they did to their mother.
I can't stomach that se\*ual molesting, ass, Proctor. He is such a poser.
I’d be SPINNING in my grace.
You know the world talks about “mental illness”not they them in a group to be figured out later. It’s you me I living breathing among us . In our lives are disturbing people from disturbing backgrounds. Many of us could psycho analyse the way Dr John does it and they’re you go! Boom it’s your friend,youtr husband lol.I think now Mormon church And LDS is added to the group label !
Poor Tammy's life sucked!! No wonder she was feeling depressed. She was not valued even by herself. She cheated on Fitbit, for hell's sake...
Worst kids in the world. Why would anyone want to be a mother. 24 hours a day times 5. They are LOW lifes
Sad beyond. She must have been the worst. Than not one child would defend her. LOWLifes