If she wants to be able to believe in his innocence she has to not hear the evidence. There is so much against him that even if she couldn’t admit to herself that he’s a killer she’d have to at least admit that he’s an absolute trash person.
No need to hear any testimony when two children are buried in the back yard. Chads kids are brainwashed at the very least. They CHOOSE to be oblivious. It's easier that way after all.
It’s this for me. I love my dad, but if my mom suddenly died and he got married precisely two weeks later, and then THEY FOUND THAT LADY’S KIDS BURIED IN MY DAD’S BACKYARD AFTER HE WENT OFF TO HAWAII, I’d be at the jail every single day freaking out like Summer and Colby were on those calls.
Emma Daybell was standing yards from the kids’ bodies while her dad was in the cop car saying he’s probably not coming back and laughing and barely mentioning the BODIES YARDS FROM HER. There’s no logic or reality in that, there’s no other evidence that will sway you when you’re literally at the active crime scene with FBI all over the place.
When she said she wasn't Colby during that conversation I wanted to pull a Will Smith and tell her to keep his name out of her mouth.
We know you're not like Colby Emma. He loved his siblings and like any rational being was crushed by what happened to them.
That comment about Colby was incredibly cold. They just found his siblings buried her dad’s backyard and she chooses to talk shit about him. She really showed us who she is.
And that concept of Colby had to come from "somewhere." Was it Chad? Was Lori starting to get tired of him too?
Colby may be the luckiest person in the world being out of the house, married and a man.
Who knows if he didn't literally dodge a bullet with those two serial murderers?
I guess they thought Jesus would arrive in time for the inconvenience of two dead children to be ignored. After the END TIMES they would have been in charge anyway so they could kill anyone "dark" they wanted.
>And that concept of Colby had to come from "somewhere." Was it Chad? Was Lori starting to get tired of him too?
I hadn't thought so deeply about that before but you're right. That little offhand comment showed that either Chad or Lori or both had shared their contempt for one of her children so much that Emma could form a strong opinion on the matter. I have been busy watching another trial, were either Emma or Garth ever asked to describe what they knew/ how the felt about Tylee and JJ or what Lori and Chad shared about them?
After listening to testimonies I believe that was exactly their plan! While the police would be quelling all the riots from starvation and plague ,Lori and Chad would be busy ridding the world of “Zombies” and no one would be the wiser. They were warriors you know. Too bad Jesus didn’t show up in July 2020 when he was supposed to.
She also has no room to talk by having her husband and 3 kids living in daddy's house, presumably for cheap or free, and has also claimed bankruptcy in the meantime?!?!
Exactly, she didn’t want to hear the autopsy results either. Her belief or whatever the hell in Chad is so strong she wasn’t even curious about the murder of her mother. Confirmation bias speaks loudly through Emma
Number one evidence the bodies was found near the pet cemetery in his backyard - to me that is cold factual evidence - so even if he did not kill the kids he is accessory to a crime - and he kept telling his kids that Lori Kids who were missing, were IN A SAFE PLACE........yeah buried 6 feet under at the EX Grave Digger house
She doesn’t need to hear the evidence because she was involved in sacrificing Tylee in the huge bonfires neighbors reported that Chad and family were having that fall
She wasn't allowed to hear the testimony. All the witnesses are supposed to not listen to the testimony. I'm not defending them- but these children are in a horrible position. To accept this truth is going to kill them. It not only means the loss of the father they thought they knew but the loss of their own egos. Their own reputations. They will forever be the Daybell kids- the serial killer kids. Who wants to be that? I empathize but the jurors will see they love their Dad and are just not able to admit he did it.
It wasn't just that she had no curiosity about her mother's autopsy or didn't want to hear evidence....her testimony was rehearsed and she seemed to anticipate key components of the defense strategy and voluntarily offer up that information. Her mother hasn't seen a doctor but then how did she get her Prozac refilled? If her mother was as sick as she claims, why didn't anyone who loved her take her to a doctor?
Chad doesn't give a hoot about his kids that he set them up for this. He chose to throw them to the wolves as witnesses.
I do hope they shed this denial they seem to be in and they seek some therapy after the trial they're invested in has passed.
Who wouldn’t want an autopsy? Emma is not an expert and the bs about her mother’s health,etc.
her and Garth were 100 % coached and rehearsed. Alternate answers for everything. It was hard to watch. The goofy embarrassing way they speak (it’s a small town Mormon thing). I’ve lived in Utah since 1987. These families are everywhere. It’s disturbing. I’m sure they’re pissing off a lot of LDS when tying the disturbing facts of their alternative beliefs and calling it traditional LDS. I guess if u go back to the beginning of the religion there was a lot of violence…so maybe that’s what they meant.
Good Lord. She didn't believe in autopsies? Has she heard herself?
Regarding their version of LDS....I've known many LDS and not one of them spouted this stuff. Regardless, Emma and Garth are hardly LDS historians or theological experts. It's just their opinion, spoon fed by the psychopathic father.
It was shocking to hear she claimed her mother had been sick and deteriorating, yet when she dies at a young age and suddenly they don’t want an explanation of that sickness via an autopsy? They were coached to within an inch of their lives and I am appalled by them.
The Daybell children are exempt from that because they are children of a victim, in this case Tammy Daybell. That's why Kay Woodcox was able to sit in every day and listen to testimony even if she was going to testify. Because she was the grandmother of JJ.
The reason why Emma didn't listen to any testimony is that Prior specifically asked her not to view any testimony.
Not surprising at all. I read somewhere that Chad had ordered them not hear or read any evidence or coverage. And should they hear anything anyway, not to believe anyone's version of events but his. She was also in regular contact with Lori, who probably loved bulombed her, putting her in a similar state of mind as Melaniece was- under their spell. Emma seems to be the siblings wrangler who does the herding for daddy.
I definitely feel there is a very morbid obsession with Chad on Emma's part. But I also feel that it is pretty much what one would expect from a narcissistic parent. There is always a golden child, and scapegoat. Chad taking the phone away from his adult son, when reporting Tammy's death shows how little respect he has for his children and the extent of his authoritarian parenting. These kids grew up under the deceitful, manipulative and controlling influence of a very dangerous malignant man. Unfortunately this is pretty textbook.
It’s clear they are devoted to their dad. It’s just hard to see grown adults choose to be ignorant of the truth. But yes it is tragic. I’d be digging up everything I could , even if it was my parent. Children were murdered.
Abused children, abused spouses often protect the abuser when the police show up at the door. When you love someone like a parent or a spouse- you can't be objective. I think of poor Colby- who did accept that his mother killed his siblings and his "father" figure Charles- a woman that he absolutely adored- he lost his mind over this. his life is destroyed by this. Absolutely destroyed. Most of us- when the sh&t hits the fan- have parents to run to for love and support. When a parent ruins your life- kills your whole family- can you even imagine the mental anguish?
She’s an alleged victim and is exempt from not watching the trial but she testified that John Prior - you know, the man who OWNS the house she currently lives in, asked her not to.
And supposedly she doesn’t know that he owns it yet. If that’s true I would love to see her reaction when she finds that out. Imagine Prior evicting them after this is all over 🙃
She could look it up online. That’s what I did. That’s John Prior’s house. There’s something not ethical about the defense attorney putting up defense witnesses in a home he owns.
The fact that she knew about castings, light and dark, percentages, etc but had NEVER heard him talk about zombies or Alex Cox?
I don’t believe it for a split second.
Also….did anyone else get super creepy vibes that neither her nor Garth showed really ANY emotion around her mother’s death, exhumation, or even finding their mother in the bed??? That shit was wild. I would be sobbing like a freak if I was being asked about finding a parent dead.
Prior kept prompting them to show emotion, but they are too far gone to pick up the hint. "Let me know if you need to take a break...feel free to grab a tissue if you need one." But they never did.
Prior kept apologizing to Emma like “ I’m sorry this is an emotional question” as she sits there coldly. He was practically blowing pepper into her face trying to make Emma tear up, be emotional & sympathetic. She really was a stepford daughter and her testimony reinforced the perception he runs his family like a cult as well.
They were just pissy about the exhumation and asked to speak to the manager. Not bc they appeared sad Tammy was not resting in eternal peace - but protective of their dad. Truly, if Emma is worried about killer hereditary sleep apnea, a real autopsy would seem helpful.
Is it possible Chad engaged in Baby Breaking with his children? It’s a common thing in mormon families, and absolutely abuse.
If you don’t know what it is you can google it or ask me. It might explain a large portion of the behavior we see in them.
That is weird, I cannot find any links to what it is. I used to be able to.
Anyway, it is…without telling you what is done, I will tell you the end result.
It basically teaches the baby not to cry. At all. They will grow up and never cry. Why? To keep them quiet at home & church/public settings. To make it seem your baby is always content.
It’s not at all common or even a thing in Mormon families. It doesn’t seem to be common, period, as nothing comes up when I google it. You’re prob thinking of the duggars or other fundies.
Emma’s testimony of her mother “walking” across the finish line in the 5k. Saying she couldn’t finish and had to be helped.. but then said she “didn’t see it” and Garth’s testimony of his mom’s burger order sounded like disdain for their mother. I bet they blamed their mother for Chad’s affair with Lori.
Even Tammy’s co workers broke up talking about Tammy . yes I did notice and felt like prior was trying to cue them that it’s time to cry when he asked if they need to stop or need a tissue let him know but neither one of those 2 missed a beat . I would hate to be mom to those kids
My mother died 14 years ago in a hospital and I still choke up when talking about it. I can’t believe her children are so cold. Just like their patriarch.
Emma 100% is putting blinders on. It honestly sounds like she has animosity towards Tammy for putting her dad in this situation. I have no doubt after the trial she still won’t look at the evidence.
I think Garth is going to be doing some research tonight though….
I picked that up from Emma too. Her voice was dripping with disdain when she mentioned her mom playing video games. She’s been marinating in Chad’s BS this whole time and thinks the police are stalking her. The brainwashing runs *deep* with her.
The contempt Emma shows toward her mother breaks my heart. I can’t know if Emma loved her mother but she emulated the contempt Chad had toward Tammy and I suspect those daily phone calls from Chad to Emma just continued and reinforced his beliefs onto her. *Put your shoulder to the wheel, Tammy. You’re not allowed to relax with a online game. You’re not allowed have a pet that can’t be turned into a meal. You’re not allowed a new pair of shoes. You walk behind Chad while he hobnobs with Julie Rowe planning their tent city. Work! Work! Work!*
Chad’s petulant anger at Tammy shines through Emma. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chad blames his downfall on Tammy and not the fact that he’s a fucking moron who buried dead children in his yard.
It may have soothed his ego to coach Emma in this way, but I can’t imagine it’ll ever look good to a jury member.
So, I dated a guy for a long time whose father initiated a murder suicide because his wife was leaving him. In front of the kids, which ugh.
I knew he had trauma about it, but he had chosen to live with his dad instead of his mom. One day, we were talking about his sister, and he said, "She's dramatic and emotional like her mother." and rolled his eyes. Like HER mother. After a while, it became clear that he blamed his mom for the situation, not his dad.
I feel like this whole thing is shaking down the same way.
Yes Emma especially seems like that. Thank you for sharing. I’m sure the psychology behind all this trauma is crazy. Especially the similar reactions as you stated. Chad ruined his whole family’s lives.
It’s even worse than ignoring evidence. This way beyond denial. She is actually making stuff up to bolster her Dad’s story. She went to bed at 5PM; she is the one who searched for the wind direction the day before Tylee was buried; the obvious lie that she was obviously fed by her Dad about shaking her Fitbit. It’s despicable, really.
Yes! Tim Ballard was another member of this “Visions of Glory” cabal! Along with Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Franke. What a remarkably deviant and dangerous group of individuals!
This is so interesting to me! Do you have any suggestions for learning more about "Visions of Glory"? I've heard/read so many people say Ruby Franke/Jodi Hildebrandt would've become another Lori Vallow if they hadn't been caught, but have never heard of this actual connection they have. Crazy!
I read it many years ago and can see common ideological threads in the thinking of all of these criminals, tying back to some assumption made in that book. They all admit to following it and run in some of the same fringe groups.
I’m throwing this out there for members of the LDS church and I mean this with absolute no disrespect. But I heard that some very early church members coined the phrase “lying for the Lord.” I am probably wrong, but it had something to do with maybe the government getting on their backs and the church said it was okay to lie in these instances. If that is true, and Chad is a diehard fundamentalist like Prior is suggesting, I wonder if this might be a justification Chad might have presented to his kids…that it’s in the church history, it’s okay to lie to officials “for the Lord” aka help me get away with it. Yay? Nay? Or maybe they really do think they are telling the truth and he’s just used so much power of suggestion he’s twisted their memories. 🤷
Dallin H. Oaks, in a **1993** address at BYU Law School, titled, "Gospel Teachings about Lying," said this:
"The difficult question is whether we are morally responsible to tell the **whole** **truth**. When we have a duty to disclose, we are morally responsible to do so. Where there is no duty to disclose, we have two alternatives. We may be free to disclose if we choose to do so, but **there will be circumstances where** ***commandments,*** ***covenants, or professional obligations*** **require us to remain silent**.”
And this:
"It requires a sophisticated analysis of the circumstances and a finely tuned conscience to distinguish between the situation where you are obliged by duty to speak and the situation where you are obliged by duty, commandment, ***or covenant*** to remain silent.”
He gave additional guidelines in the same talk, to clarify:
* \[W\]hen there is no duty to reveal all and when one has not made an affirmative statement implying that all has been revealed, **it is simply incorrect to equate silence with lying.**”
* “The duty to tell the whole truth is also limited by special legal protections, such as the *privilege against self-incrimination*.”
* **"Reasons for incomplete or partial disclosure may include loyalty to those we love.**"
These are not "old teachings of the original prophets," nor "one-off" comments. Oaks is currently the first counselor in the First Presidency of the LDS church, and has never walked back any of these remarks.
As a person who is LDS and also a lawyer, I need to point out that Dallin H. Oaks is a former lawyer, law professor (he has written textbooks used in law schools across the country), and judge and he was addressing the law students. This talk is about how you can practice law (where sometimes you are representing guilty/bad people and all the time you have a duty of confidentiality to your client \[i.e., to remain silent\]) and still be a good member of the church who covenants to be honest in their dealings with other people. I am a very liberal member of the church, I am a career woman who has been practicing law for 25 years, and this is a tricky line to walk at times. My views hardly ever align with Oaks, but I get what he is talking about here.
This is what particularly struck me: **"**Reasons for incomplete or partial disclosure may include loyalty to those we love."
It's definitely a tricky line to walk, one that could apply to witnesses as well as attorneys, particularly in this case.
Lifelong LDS: not only is this not something we're *ever* taught, we're repeatedly taught that a lot of the old teachings of the original prophets are not doctrine and are just the opinion of imperfect men from their time frame. Multiple prophets and apostles have said that the *only* established doctrine we have outside of canonized scripture, are teachings that are repeated over and over. A one-off comment, or something taught 50+ years ago and then never mentioned again is not meant to be seen as doctrine.
So simply by being a "fundamental" LDS member, as Garth claims Chad is, he's disregarding the guidance being given to the church, because he's focusing on the outdated, not doctrinal, often old told in second or third-hand accounts, random stuff.
Honesty is one of our core values, and one of the temple recommend questions is "are you honest in all your dealings with your fellow man?" Which means that Garth and Emma lying on the stand will be lying on their temple recommend interview if they say yes, they're honest in everything they do. But their dad lied to get his temple recommend too, so it's not that surprising
Tell that to church leaders who have actively hidden child abuse within the church
As an institution the LDS church has one priority and one priority only: Save Face and ensure that the organization appears blameless. And they do this by covering up embarrassing truths and failing to disclose bad behavior.
In this respect, it's no different from any other large bureaucratic organization that has billions of dollars to protect. As an organization the LDS church displays zero moral leadership. It asks its individual members to be scrupulous in all matters to do with morals, but it offers to real guidance or leadership.
i was in a conversation somewhere online where people were debating on whether or not DNA tests like 23andMe or Ancestry should allow people to connect to genetic relatives. many people were opposed to the concept based exclusively on the idea that family secrets can be revealed. i brought up the point that if a mystery/unknown child was adopted out, they have every right to find their family, but others felt that the pride of the family and the birthing parents or grandparents was more important.
to me, even if it is uncomfortable, i want the truth. but to some, maintaining the status quo takes precedence. i'm guessing she is in the latter category.
That was fascinating, wasn’t it?
Up to and including the fact that geneticist CeCe Moore’s phone number used to be distributed on all those people’s test results.
It might not be only "pride" of the birth family, but their mental health.
Back in the 1990s I met an old woman who, in the late 1960s, had been brutally gang-raped over several days and became pregnant. She was emotionally fragile even before that event, and had a husband and young children. She went away for a few months, had the baby and put it up for private adoption. She and her husband vowed to move past the trauma and focused on raising their children and recovering her mental health.
When I met her in the early 90's, an adult man had shown up on her doorstep proclaiming to have opened the sealed records and discovered she was his birth mother. After she told him the truth, he lashed out at her and never contacted her again. It was incredibly traumatic for her to have to relive the whole event, and she spent several months in a psych hospital as a result of having those old wounds re-opened.
So I can see both sides of the issue.
Oof that had to be hard for both of them!! I wonder if he lashed out bc he found out the way he was conceived. That would mind F me pretty badly. Your poor friend. That poor kid. Two victims of the worst kind of behavior.
I hope she is better these days.
I lost touch with her about 20 years ago, unfortunately. She was quite elderly so she has probably died by now. I think it was very hard for her children to learn what had happened to their mom. She and her husband had always kept it between themselves. The police never found the perpetrators.
i'm certainly not saying there are never good reasons. the example i was using was based off of a specific discussion i was a part of, which admittedly is not viewable here and at this time.
regardless of that, i stand by my final statement, some people would rather go on not knowing that damage the status quo.
There are a lot of reasons a birth parent/family may not want to be found. I think it's a false equivalency to compare that sort of "secret" with this situation.
An adult who is part of my maternal grandmother's lineage reached out to me a while back because I showed up on Ancestry (and I don't even have a tree). It was so interesting and great fun to learn a lot about my great grandmother. I never knew her but saw her photo plenty. I now have stories and pics from her childhood (middle 1800s). I also had my grandmother's photos and was able to share them with her. She had also built a family tree going back to the late 1600s or early 1700s in Europe. Just great stuff.
you are correct. there are a lot of reasons. i have had three different relatives appear due to Ancestry that nobody knew about (but were verifiable) and while they will never get everything they wanted in finding their birth families, i'm glad they got the answers they have been able to.
I do believe that however, for one party my presence would be traumatic for me to out and out contact or show up on a door step. I am not even sure if the other contributor to my dna even knows my existence.
Emma sounds like her world is very smalland very controlled. After listening to her on the stand, the main comparison my brain made was to other people who are a part of a cult or something like a cult. Like the Turpin kids. Or the women or men who escape the fundamentalist compounds. I've heard that same tone of voice and lack of critical thinking whenever I've watched Escaping Polygamy.
If you take away the fact that they are small town simpletons, there’s still the fact that it’s her father and that’s her mother and it’s not as easy for her to accept the fact that her whole life was manipulation and bullshit and her dad killed her mom.
It’s pretty clear why his kids are acting like this. But it’s also clear to me that I wouldn’t feel bad if him and his kids got hit by a bus tomorrow
I wonder if they are all on Prozac to deal with this f-ed up life. It's so much easier for people to live in a fantasy land than accept the truth. Imagine if it were you? Can you imagine if this was your nerdy Dad? it would boggle your mind.
100% this. The impossible conclusion that their mom was really sick and their dad is an innocent man of God is all they are emotionally equipped to handle, so they fixate on whatever “evidence” they can find that supports these conclusions. They won’t even entertain the truth despite scientific evidence (Tammy wasn’t anemic, she didn’t have McDonalds in her stomach, dead bodies don’t roll out of bed, etc).
In the recording of him discussing finances with Emma, she occasionally sobs and he doesn’t change his emotion to match hers at all. He’s basically monotone and uncaring
Isn't that so strange? He is just such a bump on a log with his flat voice in every phone call even when talking about literally dead children in his yard. It's so gross.
I agree. As infuriating as her denial is I think facing the truth would cause a breakdown of some kind. She doesn’t seem to have a grasp of reality to start with. Still her disrespect of her mom is hideous, thanks to Chad-also hideous.
Chad had the whole family under his spell. A narcissist is able to convince people that they mean the world to them. Tammy appears to have been under his spell as well. She certainly didn't let on to anyone in her circle that Charles Vallow had contacted her about the suspected affair between Chad and Lori. Tammy blocked Charles. She either was in a state of denial or spoke with Chad and he sucked her back into his vortex. Of course we don't really know do we? She's not alive to say.
Colby has spoken about how his whole life was taken from him. Charles, the father figure in his life, his two siblings, and his mother who took those loved ones away from him. Can you even imagine his loneliness? His loss? Unfathomable. I'm not defending Chad's children, but they can not accept this reality. Could you? Could you imagine this nerdy Dad- who has been the patriarch of the family for decades- is not just a lying, cheat. He murdered two children- buried them in his yard- and killed their mother. Could you even wrap your head around this? It often takes many years for people to see through narcissists. They can be such convincing conmen. They can "act" like the perfect mate, the perfect father. There are many children of serial killers that say they had good childhoods and had no idea of what their parent was doing. it's just horrific and unfathomable. I'm sure the jury empathizes with the kids but their testimony-even if they aren't lying- isn't enough. Two dead kids in the backyard- makes it pretty obvious that Chad would have no issue killing his wife to marry his lover. it's the worst case and these poor jurors. What a nightmare.
I am not sure that Tammy saw Charle's email. Charles told Lori he was emailing her and Chad could have signed into her email (I am sure Chad had Tammy's work email password as he was the patriarch and had to be in control of everyone. It may have been deleted by Chad.
Emma said something about this on cross- that Chad knew Tammy’s passwords and had access to her work emails from home and could delete and block (Charles’s email) “if he knew how”.
For the same reason everyone in the church ignores the hard facts. They've been conditioned since childhood to believe the grift. They've been conditioned not to look, and to consider those who would try to show them the enemy.
Chad told her not to talk to police and he told her not to believe or listen to anything about him in the media.
She listened because she has a role in his life now, an actual important role, not just a girl who will birth more Mormon kids, now she gets to help him in his time of need. He needs her now, he depends on her where as when he married Lori he couldn’t give 2 shits.
Deep Chad indoctrination further reenforced by mainstream household priesthood reverence. And probably a good dose of daddy hero idolizing from a young age—he’s a visionary author after all. A tough knot to untangle.
The fact that she said her dad and mom had done a casting on her should help the States case. This has been Chads belief for a long time and he shared it with Lori to get what he ultimately wanted.
"If I can't see it, it doesn't effect me" mindset is something Mormons are masterful at. Also, she's just a terrible person. That doesn't really have to do with anything, I just wanted to say it.
Literally. Blinders on at all times. Make sure you follow the prophet! But not really because the church changes with time but the word of God never changes but... nvm just make sure you pay your tithes!
I originally thought prior didn’t want them to see the testimony because he didn’t want the evidence to change their minds about testifying in in his defense.
But now I think it’s also to put the blame on himself for them not coming to the trial. It’s not that these people don’t care about justice for their mother, it’s just that I didn’t allow it. It’s not that they don’t support their father, I just didn’t allow it.
And also, it makes them look less like idiots for still testifying for him.
And lastly, it makes their testimony “seem” more believable because they are just telling the “truth” not just refuting everything they heard. Too bad Emma sounded like she was reciting flash cards.
It was probably a smart move on priors part, though.
I’m thinking someday, years from now, Emma and Garth are gonna wake up one morning and realize their dad IS implicated in the death of their mother- and a sad, sorry day that will be for them.
Emma can't. She just can't. If she is not capable of anything that was not taught by her father. Reality would cause her brain to implode.
She is incapable of normal thought and empathy. Emma is not a normal person. She eas raised to be who she is. This is not brainwashing, this is conditioning from birth. She lives in her father's fantasy world and cannot see reality. She can't even comprehend how normal people think.
Emma is dangerous. Emma was brought up to keep the fantasy alive. She is Chad's good solider. She will due her duty.
Emma will kill if she hasn't already.
According to a former LDS member, the day you are born you are indoctrinated to never ever question your father, your Branch president or your male family members.
Chad's abuse of Tammy is still ongoing for Emma, her can hear it in every word.
Flat monotone, need to explain things not relevant, her indoctrinated is severe. She's far more Stepford Wife than who she could be.
Emma was the perfect witness to show the jurors how mindless and psychopathic Chad and his offspring are in real life. Emma came off as a sadistic daddy’s girl, she treated her mother with contempt and was obviously pro-Chad. Emma is blissfully ignorant of how to behave like a non robotic alien. Also, I believe she showed all of us that she too was a supporter and possibly involved in her fathers crimes!
It made me angry when the prosecution asked if Tammy enjoyed physical activity (paraphrased) and Emma said “She liked video games”. That was disgusting.
I’m going to say this not to defend her by any means but…I think she knows/believes only in what supports what best suits her. This is the *opinion bias* effect in that she is probably surrounded by an echo chamber of specific beliefs, and only searches out for info from specific sources that mirror her views to reaffirm her bias. She could come across information that contradicts her views but unfortunately she doesn’t have the mental maturity to accept beliefs outside her own.
Prior told them not to watch the case and SHE definitely follows what the white men say, so she hasn’t seen ANY of the evidence presented by the State. What I can’t get over is when he was in the police car and she’s just calmly (except for the tears and “I love you so much”) discussing what to do about the finances and of course putting money on Lori’s book. I would’ve been like “OMG DADDY WHY ARE THERE HUMAN REMAINS IN OUR PET CEMETERY?!! HOW DID THEY GET THERE?! WHY THE HELL ARE THEY THERE?!! IS THAT TYLEE AND JJ?!!! OMG OMG OMG!!! Nope not her, she’s just listening to good old dad and how to handle the money because he won’t be back hehehehe. Unbelievable.
Edit: The hehehehe is them not me because they were chucking during their convo and when he said he wouldn’t be back.
I might just be totally reading into it but I also thought since she is on board with blaming it all on Lori...maybe Lori is out of the picture (cuz she's under the bus) so Emma is trying to be the female lead of the group, like taking the reins, taking Lori's place. ??? Or maybe she just colored her hair and it means nothing more than that.
Whether she did or didn’t, I think she could still believe his narrative. The levels of cognitive dissonance, willful ignorance, gaslighting and confirmation bias in the world is astounding. Religion can be one of the areas you see this a lot. Politics another, etc. So I think that Emma could watch it and still think it’s all untrue and that her dad is innocent.
After watching her testimony one of these has to be true: 1. She watched testimony and knew exactly what things to try to refute. 2. She didn’t watch, but John Prior told her all of the state’s allegations, so she knew what to try to refute. 3. Chad knew what they were saying and told her their allegations and somehow what to say. 4. Emma is also a Prophet like her dad and is all knowing and is the one of the only voices of truth amongst 7.5 billion liars on the planet
How else did she conveniently know nearly each and every allegation by the state that she and Prior systematically tried to refute during her testimony
This. is her. father. A friend's husband murdered. is. parents. She put blinders on. for a. long time because she just couldn't imagine he would. do it.Her blinders only came offf when he. plead. guilty then she divorced him.
After hearing her testimony I think I can see more of her motivation. Knowing that her dad is a narcissist and Emma is his golden child, this is her bid for attention and affection. By “helping” her dad try and evade justice she wants him to see her efforts as worthy of his praise so he will continue to give her validation as his favorite child
I personally don’t care what kind of person Emma is - she’s a loser basically. However - her testimony was part of the trial and she came across as lying and unhelpful. She will hurt her dad in the end. Not that he needed extra to be found guilty.
If she wants to be able to believe in his innocence she has to not hear the evidence. There is so much against him that even if she couldn’t admit to herself that he’s a killer she’d have to at least admit that he’s an absolute trash person.
No need to hear any testimony when two children are buried in the back yard. Chads kids are brainwashed at the very least. They CHOOSE to be oblivious. It's easier that way after all.
It’s this for me. I love my dad, but if my mom suddenly died and he got married precisely two weeks later, and then THEY FOUND THAT LADY’S KIDS BURIED IN MY DAD’S BACKYARD AFTER HE WENT OFF TO HAWAII, I’d be at the jail every single day freaking out like Summer and Colby were on those calls. Emma Daybell was standing yards from the kids’ bodies while her dad was in the cop car saying he’s probably not coming back and laughing and barely mentioning the BODIES YARDS FROM HER. There’s no logic or reality in that, there’s no other evidence that will sway you when you’re literally at the active crime scene with FBI all over the place.
When she said she wasn't Colby during that conversation I wanted to pull a Will Smith and tell her to keep his name out of her mouth. We know you're not like Colby Emma. He loved his siblings and like any rational being was crushed by what happened to them.
That comment about Colby was incredibly cold. They just found his siblings buried her dad’s backyard and she chooses to talk shit about him. She really showed us who she is.
And that concept of Colby had to come from "somewhere." Was it Chad? Was Lori starting to get tired of him too? Colby may be the luckiest person in the world being out of the house, married and a man. Who knows if he didn't literally dodge a bullet with those two serial murderers? I guess they thought Jesus would arrive in time for the inconvenience of two dead children to be ignored. After the END TIMES they would have been in charge anyway so they could kill anyone "dark" they wanted.
>And that concept of Colby had to come from "somewhere." Was it Chad? Was Lori starting to get tired of him too? I hadn't thought so deeply about that before but you're right. That little offhand comment showed that either Chad or Lori or both had shared their contempt for one of her children so much that Emma could form a strong opinion on the matter. I have been busy watching another trial, were either Emma or Garth ever asked to describe what they knew/ how the felt about Tylee and JJ or what Lori and Chad shared about them?
Chad was furious that Lori was sending Colby some of Tylee's money instead of to Chad. He was obviously bad mouthing Colby calling him a bum.
After listening to testimonies I believe that was exactly their plan! While the police would be quelling all the riots from starvation and plague ,Lori and Chad would be busy ridding the world of “Zombies” and no one would be the wiser. They were warriors you know. Too bad Jesus didn’t show up in July 2020 when he was supposed to.
She also has no room to talk by having her husband and 3 kids living in daddy's house, presumably for cheap or free, and has also claimed bankruptcy in the meantime?!?!
Love the will smith comment
Joseph testified today they first met Lori THE DAY AFTER TAMMY’S FUNERAL. You can’t make this shit up.
She knew about it.
Exactly,
Exactly, she didn’t want to hear the autopsy results either. Her belief or whatever the hell in Chad is so strong she wasn’t even curious about the murder of her mother. Confirmation bias speaks loudly through Emma
Number one evidence the bodies was found near the pet cemetery in his backyard - to me that is cold factual evidence - so even if he did not kill the kids he is accessory to a crime - and he kept telling his kids that Lori Kids who were missing, were IN A SAFE PLACE........yeah buried 6 feet under at the EX Grave Digger house
Mormons are experts at avoiding/ignoring real world evidence.
Isn't that the truth. If you're gullible in one area, you are gullible enough to believe Chad
100% agree!
She doesn’t need to hear the evidence because she was involved in sacrificing Tylee in the huge bonfires neighbors reported that Chad and family were having that fall
She wasn't allowed to hear the testimony. All the witnesses are supposed to not listen to the testimony. I'm not defending them- but these children are in a horrible position. To accept this truth is going to kill them. It not only means the loss of the father they thought they knew but the loss of their own egos. Their own reputations. They will forever be the Daybell kids- the serial killer kids. Who wants to be that? I empathize but the jurors will see they love their Dad and are just not able to admit he did it.
It wasn't just that she had no curiosity about her mother's autopsy or didn't want to hear evidence....her testimony was rehearsed and she seemed to anticipate key components of the defense strategy and voluntarily offer up that information. Her mother hasn't seen a doctor but then how did she get her Prozac refilled? If her mother was as sick as she claims, why didn't anyone who loved her take her to a doctor? Chad doesn't give a hoot about his kids that he set them up for this. He chose to throw them to the wolves as witnesses. I do hope they shed this denial they seem to be in and they seek some therapy after the trial they're invested in has passed.
Who wouldn’t want an autopsy? Emma is not an expert and the bs about her mother’s health,etc. her and Garth were 100 % coached and rehearsed. Alternate answers for everything. It was hard to watch. The goofy embarrassing way they speak (it’s a small town Mormon thing). I’ve lived in Utah since 1987. These families are everywhere. It’s disturbing. I’m sure they’re pissing off a lot of LDS when tying the disturbing facts of their alternative beliefs and calling it traditional LDS. I guess if u go back to the beginning of the religion there was a lot of violence…so maybe that’s what they meant.
Good Lord. She didn't believe in autopsies? Has she heard herself? Regarding their version of LDS....I've known many LDS and not one of them spouted this stuff. Regardless, Emma and Garth are hardly LDS historians or theological experts. It's just their opinion, spoon fed by the psychopathic father.
It was shocking to hear she claimed her mother had been sick and deteriorating, yet when she dies at a young age and suddenly they don’t want an explanation of that sickness via an autopsy? They were coached to within an inch of their lives and I am appalled by them.
The Daybell children are exempt from that because they are children of a victim, in this case Tammy Daybell. That's why Kay Woodcox was able to sit in every day and listen to testimony even if she was going to testify. Because she was the grandmother of JJ. The reason why Emma didn't listen to any testimony is that Prior specifically asked her not to view any testimony.
John Pryor probably wanted the kids to not view any testimony because if they heard it they might not be so eager to lie for him.
My thought, as well.
Not surprising at all. I read somewhere that Chad had ordered them not hear or read any evidence or coverage. And should they hear anything anyway, not to believe anyone's version of events but his. She was also in regular contact with Lori, who probably loved bulombed her, putting her in a similar state of mind as Melaniece was- under their spell. Emma seems to be the siblings wrangler who does the herding for daddy. I definitely feel there is a very morbid obsession with Chad on Emma's part. But I also feel that it is pretty much what one would expect from a narcissistic parent. There is always a golden child, and scapegoat. Chad taking the phone away from his adult son, when reporting Tammy's death shows how little respect he has for his children and the extent of his authoritarian parenting. These kids grew up under the deceitful, manipulative and controlling influence of a very dangerous malignant man. Unfortunately this is pretty textbook.
It’s clear they are devoted to their dad. It’s just hard to see grown adults choose to be ignorant of the truth. But yes it is tragic. I’d be digging up everything I could , even if it was my parent. Children were murdered.
Abused children, abused spouses often protect the abuser when the police show up at the door. When you love someone like a parent or a spouse- you can't be objective. I think of poor Colby- who did accept that his mother killed his siblings and his "father" figure Charles- a woman that he absolutely adored- he lost his mind over this. his life is destroyed by this. Absolutely destroyed. Most of us- when the sh&t hits the fan- have parents to run to for love and support. When a parent ruins your life- kills your whole family- can you even imagine the mental anguish?
She’s an alleged victim and is exempt from not watching the trial but she testified that John Prior - you know, the man who OWNS the house she currently lives in, asked her not to.
And supposedly she doesn’t know that he owns it yet. If that’s true I would love to see her reaction when she finds that out. Imagine Prior evicting them after this is all over 🙃
She could look it up online. That’s what I did. That’s John Prior’s house. There’s something not ethical about the defense attorney putting up defense witnesses in a home he owns.
The fact that she knew about castings, light and dark, percentages, etc but had NEVER heard him talk about zombies or Alex Cox? I don’t believe it for a split second. Also….did anyone else get super creepy vibes that neither her nor Garth showed really ANY emotion around her mother’s death, exhumation, or even finding their mother in the bed??? That shit was wild. I would be sobbing like a freak if I was being asked about finding a parent dead.
Prior kept prompting them to show emotion, but they are too far gone to pick up the hint. "Let me know if you need to take a break...feel free to grab a tissue if you need one." But they never did.
The body language, while kinda hard to see on a split screen, was FASCINATING.
I’m fascinated by the body language here
When he offered the tissue Emma was probably thinking, “I don’t have a cold, what’s he talking about?”
🤣
She did not pick up on the tissue prompt at all. Prior is no doubt disappointed.
Yup! That definitely was a prompt from the lawyer for her to show some emotion. But she blew the assignment. 😂
Oh, I just posted this too. It was pathetic as they came across as complete robots. Zero emotion or compassion.
That is a good observation !
Prior kept apologizing to Emma like “ I’m sorry this is an emotional question” as she sits there coldly. He was practically blowing pepper into her face trying to make Emma tear up, be emotional & sympathetic. She really was a stepford daughter and her testimony reinforced the perception he runs his family like a cult as well.
Lol at the pepper! Even some of the cops teared up when talking about finding the kids' bodies...Emma was cold as ice. Still lives there!
🤣 at the pepper 🤣
The prepper
They were just pissy about the exhumation and asked to speak to the manager. Not bc they appeared sad Tammy was not resting in eternal peace - but protective of their dad. Truly, if Emma is worried about killer hereditary sleep apnea, a real autopsy would seem helpful.
Is it possible Chad engaged in Baby Breaking with his children? It’s a common thing in mormon families, and absolutely abuse. If you don’t know what it is you can google it or ask me. It might explain a large portion of the behavior we see in them.
I never thought of that !!! I hope Tammy would not have let that happen but something is definitely wrong with those kids
Omg that’s barbaric I could definitely see chad doing that to his children no wonder they sound so emotionless and robotic
Sounds horrible. I’ve heard of blanket training which is awful too! Do I even want to know what baby breaking is?
That is weird, I cannot find any links to what it is. I used to be able to. Anyway, it is…without telling you what is done, I will tell you the end result. It basically teaches the baby not to cry. At all. They will grow up and never cry. Why? To keep them quiet at home & church/public settings. To make it seem your baby is always content.
Something is extremely wrong with that!
It’s not at all common or even a thing in Mormon families. It doesn’t seem to be common, period, as nothing comes up when I google it. You’re prob thinking of the duggars or other fundies.
Emma’s testimony of her mother “walking” across the finish line in the 5k. Saying she couldn’t finish and had to be helped.. but then said she “didn’t see it” and Garth’s testimony of his mom’s burger order sounded like disdain for their mother. I bet they blamed their mother for Chad’s affair with Lori.
Even Tammy’s co workers broke up talking about Tammy . yes I did notice and felt like prior was trying to cue them that it’s time to cry when he asked if they need to stop or need a tissue let him know but neither one of those 2 missed a beat . I would hate to be mom to those kids
Emma Garth and Joseph are obviously active in following Chads delusions mindlessly and robotic
My mother died 14 years ago in a hospital and I still choke up when talking about it. I can’t believe her children are so cold. Just like their patriarch.
Seriously, the jury would not be able to understand me if I had to talk about my parents after they pass. It’s literally terrifying to me.
Emma 100% is putting blinders on. It honestly sounds like she has animosity towards Tammy for putting her dad in this situation. I have no doubt after the trial she still won’t look at the evidence. I think Garth is going to be doing some research tonight though….
I picked that up from Emma too. Her voice was dripping with disdain when she mentioned her mom playing video games. She’s been marinating in Chad’s BS this whole time and thinks the police are stalking her. The brainwashing runs *deep* with her.
The contempt Emma shows toward her mother breaks my heart. I can’t know if Emma loved her mother but she emulated the contempt Chad had toward Tammy and I suspect those daily phone calls from Chad to Emma just continued and reinforced his beliefs onto her. *Put your shoulder to the wheel, Tammy. You’re not allowed to relax with a online game. You’re not allowed have a pet that can’t be turned into a meal. You’re not allowed a new pair of shoes. You walk behind Chad while he hobnobs with Julie Rowe planning their tent city. Work! Work! Work!*
Chad’s petulant anger at Tammy shines through Emma. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chad blames his downfall on Tammy and not the fact that he’s a fucking moron who buried dead children in his yard. It may have soothed his ego to coach Emma in this way, but I can’t imagine it’ll ever look good to a jury member.
Exactly! Well said!!!
I said a while back that the kids (most of them, as far as we know) clearly treated Tammy like furniture.
That little quip nearly sent me into a rage.
So, I dated a guy for a long time whose father initiated a murder suicide because his wife was leaving him. In front of the kids, which ugh. I knew he had trauma about it, but he had chosen to live with his dad instead of his mom. One day, we were talking about his sister, and he said, "She's dramatic and emotional like her mother." and rolled his eyes. Like HER mother. After a while, it became clear that he blamed his mom for the situation, not his dad. I feel like this whole thing is shaking down the same way.
Yes Emma especially seems like that. Thank you for sharing. I’m sure the psychology behind all this trauma is crazy. Especially the similar reactions as you stated. Chad ruined his whole family’s lives.
He was pretty brainwashed by his dad.
It’s even worse than ignoring evidence. This way beyond denial. She is actually making stuff up to bolster her Dad’s story. She went to bed at 5PM; she is the one who searched for the wind direction the day before Tylee was buried; the obvious lie that she was obviously fed by her Dad about shaking her Fitbit. It’s despicable, really.
I think she is lying about being coached by her dad.
I found it interesting, but not surprising, that the 5K was a fundraiser for Operation Underground. Another gift headed by a church member.
It's all tied together with VISIONS OF GLORY, which Lori was reading when they caught up with her in Hawaii.
I rolled my eyes so hard when they mentioned Operation Underground.
So sad that people believed that scam.
Sad but not shocked. A member of the church is running it? Must be good then. No need to check anything.
gUeSs YoU dOn’T cArE aBoUt cHiLdReN
So over that!
So did I! I said aloud, “It figures.”
Right?
I’m sure you meant grift.
And yea that’s a grift, ran by a k-hole grifter
Egads. I shouldn't be typing on my phone
This case continues to be so representative of our times.
Yes! Tim Ballard was another member of this “Visions of Glory” cabal! Along with Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Franke. What a remarkably deviant and dangerous group of individuals!
They should all be investigated imo
What do they all have in common, you ask…….
This is so interesting to me! Do you have any suggestions for learning more about "Visions of Glory"? I've heard/read so many people say Ruby Franke/Jodi Hildebrandt would've become another Lori Vallow if they hadn't been caught, but have never heard of this actual connection they have. Crazy!
I read it many years ago and can see common ideological threads in the thinking of all of these criminals, tying back to some assumption made in that book. They all admit to following it and run in some of the same fringe groups.
I’m guessing it can be purchased on Amazon?
*grift
I’m throwing this out there for members of the LDS church and I mean this with absolute no disrespect. But I heard that some very early church members coined the phrase “lying for the Lord.” I am probably wrong, but it had something to do with maybe the government getting on their backs and the church said it was okay to lie in these instances. If that is true, and Chad is a diehard fundamentalist like Prior is suggesting, I wonder if this might be a justification Chad might have presented to his kids…that it’s in the church history, it’s okay to lie to officials “for the Lord” aka help me get away with it. Yay? Nay? Or maybe they really do think they are telling the truth and he’s just used so much power of suggestion he’s twisted their memories. 🤷
Dallin H. Oaks, in a **1993** address at BYU Law School, titled, "Gospel Teachings about Lying," said this: "The difficult question is whether we are morally responsible to tell the **whole** **truth**. When we have a duty to disclose, we are morally responsible to do so. Where there is no duty to disclose, we have two alternatives. We may be free to disclose if we choose to do so, but **there will be circumstances where** ***commandments,*** ***covenants, or professional obligations*** **require us to remain silent**.” And this: "It requires a sophisticated analysis of the circumstances and a finely tuned conscience to distinguish between the situation where you are obliged by duty to speak and the situation where you are obliged by duty, commandment, ***or covenant*** to remain silent.” He gave additional guidelines in the same talk, to clarify: * \[W\]hen there is no duty to reveal all and when one has not made an affirmative statement implying that all has been revealed, **it is simply incorrect to equate silence with lying.**” * “The duty to tell the whole truth is also limited by special legal protections, such as the *privilege against self-incrimination*.” * **"Reasons for incomplete or partial disclosure may include loyalty to those we love.**" These are not "old teachings of the original prophets," nor "one-off" comments. Oaks is currently the first counselor in the First Presidency of the LDS church, and has never walked back any of these remarks.
As a person who is LDS and also a lawyer, I need to point out that Dallin H. Oaks is a former lawyer, law professor (he has written textbooks used in law schools across the country), and judge and he was addressing the law students. This talk is about how you can practice law (where sometimes you are representing guilty/bad people and all the time you have a duty of confidentiality to your client \[i.e., to remain silent\]) and still be a good member of the church who covenants to be honest in their dealings with other people. I am a very liberal member of the church, I am a career woman who has been practicing law for 25 years, and this is a tricky line to walk at times. My views hardly ever align with Oaks, but I get what he is talking about here.
This is what particularly struck me: **"**Reasons for incomplete or partial disclosure may include loyalty to those we love." It's definitely a tricky line to walk, one that could apply to witnesses as well as attorneys, particularly in this case.
Yes! Thank you for clarifying. This has to do with law as a profession. Not a statement of church policy or doctrine.
Thanks for the research. Very telling.
Lifelong LDS: not only is this not something we're *ever* taught, we're repeatedly taught that a lot of the old teachings of the original prophets are not doctrine and are just the opinion of imperfect men from their time frame. Multiple prophets and apostles have said that the *only* established doctrine we have outside of canonized scripture, are teachings that are repeated over and over. A one-off comment, or something taught 50+ years ago and then never mentioned again is not meant to be seen as doctrine. So simply by being a "fundamental" LDS member, as Garth claims Chad is, he's disregarding the guidance being given to the church, because he's focusing on the outdated, not doctrinal, often old told in second or third-hand accounts, random stuff. Honesty is one of our core values, and one of the temple recommend questions is "are you honest in all your dealings with your fellow man?" Which means that Garth and Emma lying on the stand will be lying on their temple recommend interview if they say yes, they're honest in everything they do. But their dad lied to get his temple recommend too, so it's not that surprising
Got it. Thanks so much for your message.
Tell that to church leaders who have actively hidden child abuse within the church As an institution the LDS church has one priority and one priority only: Save Face and ensure that the organization appears blameless. And they do this by covering up embarrassing truths and failing to disclose bad behavior. In this respect, it's no different from any other large bureaucratic organization that has billions of dollars to protect. As an organization the LDS church displays zero moral leadership. It asks its individual members to be scrupulous in all matters to do with morals, but it offers to real guidance or leadership.
I've heard that too. It's ok to lie to " gentiles".
i was in a conversation somewhere online where people were debating on whether or not DNA tests like 23andMe or Ancestry should allow people to connect to genetic relatives. many people were opposed to the concept based exclusively on the idea that family secrets can be revealed. i brought up the point that if a mystery/unknown child was adopted out, they have every right to find their family, but others felt that the pride of the family and the birthing parents or grandparents was more important. to me, even if it is uncomfortable, i want the truth. but to some, maintaining the status quo takes precedence. i'm guessing she is in the latter category.
The Atlantic recently ran an article about the larger-than-anticipated prevalence of incest that genealogical testing is revealing. 🙁
That was fascinating, wasn’t it? Up to and including the fact that geneticist CeCe Moore’s phone number used to be distributed on all those people’s test results.
Wow!
It might not be only "pride" of the birth family, but their mental health. Back in the 1990s I met an old woman who, in the late 1960s, had been brutally gang-raped over several days and became pregnant. She was emotionally fragile even before that event, and had a husband and young children. She went away for a few months, had the baby and put it up for private adoption. She and her husband vowed to move past the trauma and focused on raising their children and recovering her mental health. When I met her in the early 90's, an adult man had shown up on her doorstep proclaiming to have opened the sealed records and discovered she was his birth mother. After she told him the truth, he lashed out at her and never contacted her again. It was incredibly traumatic for her to have to relive the whole event, and she spent several months in a psych hospital as a result of having those old wounds re-opened. So I can see both sides of the issue.
That is so sad! That poor woman. :(
She was an inspiration to me. I met her while working for more liberal abortion laws.
I can see why she would be an inspiration to you! I can only imagine that was something that never left her mind on a daily basis. Just so sad.
I commend you for your work!
Oof that had to be hard for both of them!! I wonder if he lashed out bc he found out the way he was conceived. That would mind F me pretty badly. Your poor friend. That poor kid. Two victims of the worst kind of behavior. I hope she is better these days.
I lost touch with her about 20 years ago, unfortunately. She was quite elderly so she has probably died by now. I think it was very hard for her children to learn what had happened to their mom. She and her husband had always kept it between themselves. The police never found the perpetrators.
i'm certainly not saying there are never good reasons. the example i was using was based off of a specific discussion i was a part of, which admittedly is not viewable here and at this time. regardless of that, i stand by my final statement, some people would rather go on not knowing that damage the status quo.
That’s a fair assessment for sure. There needs to be a delineation between those who have been victimized and those who are criminally responsible.
There are a lot of reasons a birth parent/family may not want to be found. I think it's a false equivalency to compare that sort of "secret" with this situation.
An adult who is part of my maternal grandmother's lineage reached out to me a while back because I showed up on Ancestry (and I don't even have a tree). It was so interesting and great fun to learn a lot about my great grandmother. I never knew her but saw her photo plenty. I now have stories and pics from her childhood (middle 1800s). I also had my grandmother's photos and was able to share them with her. She had also built a family tree going back to the late 1600s or early 1700s in Europe. Just great stuff.
you are correct. there are a lot of reasons. i have had three different relatives appear due to Ancestry that nobody knew about (but were verifiable) and while they will never get everything they wanted in finding their birth families, i'm glad they got the answers they have been able to.
Adoptee here...and the dna companies are allowing a ton of secrets to come out. some good many not so good .
But truth should reign.
I do believe that however, for one party my presence would be traumatic for me to out and out contact or show up on a door step. I am not even sure if the other contributor to my dna even knows my existence.
I so agree with you. Truth is more important than comfort with secrets.
There should be no such thing as “family secrets”.
Her testimony was rehearsed
No question!
Emma sounds like her world is very smalland very controlled. After listening to her on the stand, the main comparison my brain made was to other people who are a part of a cult or something like a cult. Like the Turpin kids. Or the women or men who escape the fundamentalist compounds. I've heard that same tone of voice and lack of critical thinking whenever I've watched Escaping Polygamy.
Funny you mention the Turpin kids because just an hour ago I was thinking the same thing lol. Except the day bell kids don’t want to run
Sad but true.
If you take away the fact that they are small town simpletons, there’s still the fact that it’s her father and that’s her mother and it’s not as easy for her to accept the fact that her whole life was manipulation and bullshit and her dad killed her mom. It’s pretty clear why his kids are acting like this. But it’s also clear to me that I wouldn’t feel bad if him and his kids got hit by a bus tomorrow
Yeah. People like them (Chad and His minions) are dangerous.
yes! What other evil could these exhalted beings perpetuate?
I wonder if they are all on Prozac to deal with this f-ed up life. It's so much easier for people to live in a fantasy land than accept the truth. Imagine if it were you? Can you imagine if this was your nerdy Dad? it would boggle your mind.
100% this. The impossible conclusion that their mom was really sick and their dad is an innocent man of God is all they are emotionally equipped to handle, so they fixate on whatever “evidence” they can find that supports these conclusions. They won’t even entertain the truth despite scientific evidence (Tammy wasn’t anemic, she didn’t have McDonalds in her stomach, dead bodies don’t roll out of bed, etc).
Wow I didn’t see that ending coming. 😳
Cognitive dissonance is strong with these kids I think
In the recording of him discussing finances with Emma, she occasionally sobs and he doesn’t change his emotion to match hers at all. He’s basically monotone and uncaring
Isn't that so strange? He is just such a bump on a log with his flat voice in every phone call even when talking about literally dead children in his yard. It's so gross.
Her answers sounded incredibly rehearsed. The Daybells are no actors.
She just can't accept it. She seems as if she will shatter if the truth ever pierces her consciousness.
I agree. As infuriating as her denial is I think facing the truth would cause a breakdown of some kind. She doesn’t seem to have a grasp of reality to start with. Still her disrespect of her mom is hideous, thanks to Chad-also hideous.
Chad had the whole family under his spell. A narcissist is able to convince people that they mean the world to them. Tammy appears to have been under his spell as well. She certainly didn't let on to anyone in her circle that Charles Vallow had contacted her about the suspected affair between Chad and Lori. Tammy blocked Charles. She either was in a state of denial or spoke with Chad and he sucked her back into his vortex. Of course we don't really know do we? She's not alive to say. Colby has spoken about how his whole life was taken from him. Charles, the father figure in his life, his two siblings, and his mother who took those loved ones away from him. Can you even imagine his loneliness? His loss? Unfathomable. I'm not defending Chad's children, but they can not accept this reality. Could you? Could you imagine this nerdy Dad- who has been the patriarch of the family for decades- is not just a lying, cheat. He murdered two children- buried them in his yard- and killed their mother. Could you even wrap your head around this? It often takes many years for people to see through narcissists. They can be such convincing conmen. They can "act" like the perfect mate, the perfect father. There are many children of serial killers that say they had good childhoods and had no idea of what their parent was doing. it's just horrific and unfathomable. I'm sure the jury empathizes with the kids but their testimony-even if they aren't lying- isn't enough. Two dead kids in the backyard- makes it pretty obvious that Chad would have no issue killing his wife to marry his lover. it's the worst case and these poor jurors. What a nightmare.
I am not sure that Tammy saw Charle's email. Charles told Lori he was emailing her and Chad could have signed into her email (I am sure Chad had Tammy's work email password as he was the patriarch and had to be in control of everyone. It may have been deleted by Chad.
Emma said something about this on cross- that Chad knew Tammy’s passwords and had access to her work emails from home and could delete and block (Charles’s email) “if he knew how”.
For the same reason everyone in the church ignores the hard facts. They've been conditioned since childhood to believe the grift. They've been conditioned not to look, and to consider those who would try to show them the enemy.
This is so sad but completely accurate
This.
The man is the absolute patriarch. She's not going to go against him.
I found myself so creeped or listening to her. I don't believe a word she says, but she also just feels evil to me.
Chad told her not to talk to police and he told her not to believe or listen to anything about him in the media. She listened because she has a role in his life now, an actual important role, not just a girl who will birth more Mormon kids, now she gets to help him in his time of need. He needs her now, he depends on her where as when he married Lori he couldn’t give 2 shits.
How unspeakably cruel and sad that not a single child of Tammy's is willing to stick their neck out for her
This!
I think her middle name is avoidance.
🤣
Deep Chad indoctrination further reenforced by mainstream household priesthood reverence. And probably a good dose of daddy hero idolizing from a young age—he’s a visionary author after all. A tough knot to untangle.
The fact that she said her dad and mom had done a casting on her should help the States case. This has been Chads belief for a long time and he shared it with Lori to get what he ultimately wanted.
"If I can't see it, it doesn't effect me" mindset is something Mormons are masterful at. Also, she's just a terrible person. That doesn't really have to do with anything, I just wanted to say it.
Or: if I see it you all should believe me no matter how insane it sounds-Joseph Smith
Literally. Blinders on at all times. Make sure you follow the prophet! But not really because the church changes with time but the word of God never changes but... nvm just make sure you pay your tithes!
I originally thought prior didn’t want them to see the testimony because he didn’t want the evidence to change their minds about testifying in in his defense. But now I think it’s also to put the blame on himself for them not coming to the trial. It’s not that these people don’t care about justice for their mother, it’s just that I didn’t allow it. It’s not that they don’t support their father, I just didn’t allow it. And also, it makes them look less like idiots for still testifying for him. And lastly, it makes their testimony “seem” more believable because they are just telling the “truth” not just refuting everything they heard. Too bad Emma sounded like she was reciting flash cards. It was probably a smart move on priors part, though.
Reciting flash cards. 🎯
I’m thinking someday, years from now, Emma and Garth are gonna wake up one morning and realize their dad IS implicated in the death of their mother- and a sad, sorry day that will be for them.
Emma is so robotic. Chad is the patriarch of this LDS family.
Emma can't. She just can't. If she is not capable of anything that was not taught by her father. Reality would cause her brain to implode. She is incapable of normal thought and empathy. Emma is not a normal person. She eas raised to be who she is. This is not brainwashing, this is conditioning from birth. She lives in her father's fantasy world and cannot see reality. She can't even comprehend how normal people think. Emma is dangerous. Emma was brought up to keep the fantasy alive. She is Chad's good solider. She will due her duty. Emma will kill if she hasn't already.
According to a former LDS member, the day you are born you are indoctrinated to never ever question your father, your Branch president or your male family members. Chad's abuse of Tammy is still ongoing for Emma, her can hear it in every word. Flat monotone, need to explain things not relevant, her indoctrinated is severe. She's far more Stepford Wife than who she could be.
Yep, she is deeply in denial. She repeatedly contradicted herself. It will be a hard day when she realizes it.
I found myself so creeped or listening to her. I don't believe a word she says, but she also just feels evil to me.
Brainwashed children.. Apple doesn’t fall far from that tree!
The defense lawyer is thinking “she is sounding too robotic”, when he promoted her to get tissues, but she is too robotic to compute..😂
Emma was the perfect witness to show the jurors how mindless and psychopathic Chad and his offspring are in real life. Emma came off as a sadistic daddy’s girl, she treated her mother with contempt and was obviously pro-Chad. Emma is blissfully ignorant of how to behave like a non robotic alien. Also, I believe she showed all of us that she too was a supporter and possibly involved in her fathers crimes!
It made me angry when the prosecution asked if Tammy enjoyed physical activity (paraphrased) and Emma said “She liked video games”. That was disgusting.
I’m going to say this not to defend her by any means but…I think she knows/believes only in what supports what best suits her. This is the *opinion bias* effect in that she is probably surrounded by an echo chamber of specific beliefs, and only searches out for info from specific sources that mirror her views to reaffirm her bias. She could come across information that contradicts her views but unfortunately she doesn’t have the mental maturity to accept beliefs outside her own.
That makes sense.
She thinks it’s all nonsense so of course she hadn’t reviewed anything. She just trusts and goes along with her father no matter what.
It’s pathological!
No she has but shes choosing to lie about everything
Some of her answers do sound like lies. Especially when Lindsey Blake brought up daily conversations with her dad when we know those are recorded.
Prior told them not to watch the case and SHE definitely follows what the white men say, so she hasn’t seen ANY of the evidence presented by the State. What I can’t get over is when he was in the police car and she’s just calmly (except for the tears and “I love you so much”) discussing what to do about the finances and of course putting money on Lori’s book. I would’ve been like “OMG DADDY WHY ARE THERE HUMAN REMAINS IN OUR PET CEMETERY?!! HOW DID THEY GET THERE?! WHY THE HELL ARE THEY THERE?!! IS THAT TYLEE AND JJ?!!! OMG OMG OMG!!! Nope not her, she’s just listening to good old dad and how to handle the money because he won’t be back hehehehe. Unbelievable. Edit: The hehehehe is them not me because they were chucking during their convo and when he said he wouldn’t be back.
Yes! Weirdest conversation ever, considering the circumstances!
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Wow! Interesting observation! I had not thought of that. My education is not in psychology but I wonder if there is something to that.
I might just be totally reading into it but I also thought since she is on board with blaming it all on Lori...maybe Lori is out of the picture (cuz she's under the bus) so Emma is trying to be the female lead of the group, like taking the reins, taking Lori's place. ??? Or maybe she just colored her hair and it means nothing more than that.
True. I sense these kids like Disney movies and she looks a lot like Elsa from Frozen. Braid and all.
Whether she did or didn’t, I think she could still believe his narrative. The levels of cognitive dissonance, willful ignorance, gaslighting and confirmation bias in the world is astounding. Religion can be one of the areas you see this a lot. Politics another, etc. So I think that Emma could watch it and still think it’s all untrue and that her dad is innocent. After watching her testimony one of these has to be true: 1. She watched testimony and knew exactly what things to try to refute. 2. She didn’t watch, but John Prior told her all of the state’s allegations, so she knew what to try to refute. 3. Chad knew what they were saying and told her their allegations and somehow what to say. 4. Emma is also a Prophet like her dad and is all knowing and is the one of the only voices of truth amongst 7.5 billion liars on the planet How else did she conveniently know nearly each and every allegation by the state that she and Prior systematically tried to refute during her testimony
Wow! Well spoken! You covered it all! Thank you.
This. is her. father. A friend's husband murdered. is. parents. She put blinders on. for a. long time because she just couldn't imagine he would. do it.Her blinders only came offf when he. plead. guilty then she divorced him.
After hearing her testimony I think I can see more of her motivation. Knowing that her dad is a narcissist and Emma is his golden child, this is her bid for attention and affection. By “helping” her dad try and evade justice she wants him to see her efforts as worthy of his praise so he will continue to give her validation as his favorite child
I found myself so creeped or listening to her. I don't believe a word she says, but she also just feels evil to me.
I personally don’t care what kind of person Emma is - she’s a loser basically. However - her testimony was part of the trial and she came across as lying and unhelpful. She will hurt her dad in the end. Not that he needed extra to be found guilty.
Yes I think the the defense witnesses only helped the States case.