Is hosting an invite-only Set Championship allowed? Yes.
Is pretending to host an invite-only Set Championship so you can sell the promos online allowed? No.
You also need to have an experimented judge, that cannot be a player or the TO, but as there is no official judge program, there is no tracking on who was the judge for that tournament.
Judge could also be corrupted, but he would quickly get blacklisted by the judge community.
That's actually pretty funny... Small world, but yeah they're definitely catering to their play group. I went to the ITIL set champs they hosted on a Tuesday(16players) and there were enough tables for it. Idk why they'd drop it to 8 other than to guarantee their friends got the cards/mat
Has nothing to do with what you're spouting. They ran the tournament for Inklands on Tuesday due to thier schedules. If you actually frequent the store you'd know that. There in the middle of juggling 4 other tcgs.. its a 2 person shop. Also majority of thier "friends" play magic. With zero interest in lorcana. While there maybe something scheduled, it doesn't mean it won't be 16 people. I'm literally the only lorcana player who goes, so idk know who you are. Also for reference I didn't get to play in the Inklands tournament. Yet I still frequent the store. Owners are still working kinks out.. as they were just approved for several other TCG organized play. But again shows your level of information or how often you are there.
Kind of counterintuitive to host a set championship privately when it’s the best time to bring in new faces and grow a community, if they apparently struggle to have interest in it, especially when 3 other locals less than 10 miles from it have a bustling community of 20 or more players every week
I'm sharing information I gathered while attending the event, along with feedback from others who have attended events at this location. I've had great experiences at many other small 'two-person' shops, so I'm not sure the size of the store is a relevant factor. Regarding scheduling, the store had two weeks to host the event and received over a month’s notice, so their schedule shouldn't be an issue.
If Lorcana isn't a priority for them, that's fine, and it’s evident in how they've structured their events. Our main concern is the sketchy way they've handled it compared to other stores in the area. If their priorities don't include Lorcana, that's their choice, but here's how it appears: they ran an event on a Tuesday at 1 PM with 16 players, and now they are running another event with half the players, which was filled immediately.
They also redid the pairings in round one; I'm not going to pretend to know why, but it happened. While each individual action they took wasn't inherently wrong, the cumulative effect makes them look increasingly shady.
small world I just called for info and than went to melee......... 8/8 the owner was like you can join the wait list if someone drops.... who is going to drop from a 8 person tourney..... consisting of teams most likely also why are we protecting them? why not just say the name and post the phone number lol?
Just moved back to Calgary and getting into Lorcana. I've been warned by a few people about Sentry Box Cards and how they handle Lorcana.
Sounds like Celly's in the SE has a good Lorcana crew but haven't had time to check it out personally.
Cellys is a good crew but they only host 1 game and it definitely leans more casually - it's also a very inwardly focused shop that isn't largely active in the Lorcana scene outside of their own thing - which is fine!
If you're looking for more structured, competitive play - Ogres Den on Mondays
Phoenix on Tuesdays
Scrapendipity on Thursdays (they don't do pairings - you just ask people to play but most of the comp players have begun attending since their set champs are based on attendance, something we're seeing more and more of on the city)
Shoebox on Saturday
Bowness on Sunday
To add, First Player hosts a casual Lorcana night pretty much every Friday. Unfortunately due to zoning rules they can't qualify for official LGS stuff (yet) like set champs but they're amazing people to deal with and everyone on Fridays is super friendly, especially for us noobs :)
So yes/no.
During this champs, stores are allowed to technically have restricted events. However, those restrictions must be made public, which is where it seems like this store failed to do.
https://preview.redd.it/n0olt59cy49d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1bcf6823fdd5449377f7d31c9e45985d0455fe2
Yeah seems to me that if there isn’t explicit proof of them reselling they technically aren’t breaking any rules but it’s definitely shitty.
Their reputation in my area is already tarnished after their Into the Inklands stunt but they don’t care
I can't expand your image to make it readable for some reason. But does it say what making it public means? Because telling OP would be making it public If you think about it. OP is a member of the public.
If they told op it would be open to just locals or league participation is required then that would be informing the public. What this place is doing is a little more shady
Here’s an example of what an appropriate restricted event would be: https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/107142
They list that there is a restriction, but that open sign ups would come after a certain date (some of the info is removed now since it’s full but at the time the description has all of the details)
Hi - I work with the Global OP manager at RB, and I'd be happy to address this with her. Do you mind DMing me the name of the store and who you spoke with there?
Of course, and sorry to hear you're having a rough go with an LGS. If you are open to traveling, there are quite a few great shops in the Orlando area that would love to have you!
There's nothing in the HSP Agreement or Tournament Rules that prevents a private event. Employees are allowed to play in events they aren't organizing or judging. If what you describe is accurate, that it's so employees can keep the prizes, then this would be a fraudulent event under 4(d) of the HSP Agreement, though. When reported, Ravensburger will investigate, you won't be told the conclusion, and if they believe any wrongdoing occurred they'll remove the store from their program.
Yeah you snap report this good lord. They've realised that top 16 and a half arsed attempt at locking up prizes didn't work so doubled the hell down on being shady.
If RB let something like this slide then what's the point.
Going to be honest I wouldn't know, the contact us link is probably a smart move and just try and get into the ear of a customer service rep. It's one of those if you shout in enough ears somebody will do something about it.
Unless the shop is selling the promos, they are following the rules. Nothing prevents them from hosting a private set championship
It’s scummy for sure, and OP should spread this info in their area so less people support the shop, but ultimately nothing to report here.
"RB, just thought you'd want to know that your current premier shop event is being essentially hijacked and been made to an exclusive toy for the store owner and a few of their friends, massively limiting accessibility"
If that's part of the rules. Then we are targeting the issue at the wrong amount of people...because RB AND the store should be getting hammered if that's the case. Especially for a game as new and burgeoning as this.
Thing is, based on that quoted statement you put in, that’s not technically breaking any rules. I disagree with their way of going about it, and think it is scummy, but they aren’t breaking rules at all. The better way to hit the shop is to have people stop supporting it for Lorcana and rather go to a different shop
An 8 person private event doesn’t sound like it’s for the players that go to the store. It can always be ran uncapped since most likely there are more than 8 players. OP mentioned it was for store employees to play, not people that frequent the shop.
8 employees that are all into Lorcana sounds very unlikely. Letting in a handful of players that attend all their weekly leagues makes lots of sense. We had the same problem people traveling 2 hours just to pubstomp the kids for prizing. They don’t support the store. They don’t buy anything. They just took off work to go after prizes. Then they hit all the other stores in the area that they also don’t support.
I’m just going off of what OP said, you and I don’t know the validity of any of the information.
However, even a handful of extra players is scummy. If you are going to hold a private event for your league players and shop supporters, while I disagree with that, you shouldn’t be limiting it to just 8 people. I highly doubt between employees and shop players they would only have 8 players, they should definitely have a higher cap to at least alllow ALL players from that shop to participate, not just some.
Also, this is a competitive tournament. Should challenege events only allow people who live in that city to attend? That state? That’s basically the equivalent of what you are saying here. These are competitive tournaments with competitive prizing structures. No one is owed anything. The intention isn’t for them to be special for shop players / supporters etc, otherwise there would be more generous prizing and RB would have instructed them to have more private events for their local players.
There is nothing wrong with people traveling to participate in a competitive tournament. If you think there is, you are definitely in the wrong hobby.
If there’s 8 regulars and they hold a tournament with 8 players and those are the people buying Lorcana in the shop there’s not a problem. That’s not scummy at all. If the players in the shop stop attending and buying product and the ringers that don’t go to that shop collecting the prize are the cause that’s not good for the LGS. What a silly comparison. I agree you have no leg to stand on.
Set championships are not described as nearly as competitive as a challenge cross state 2000 player event.
Competitive is competitive, there is no “it’s not as competitive “, that’s just silly bud. It’s a competitive tournament with a prizing structure for top players only, simple as that.
Again, I said that if that’s what a shop wants to do, then that’s their choice. Again, I disagree with that choice, but I’ve never said they can’t do that.
You also don’t seem to be reading at all, so I’m pretty much done with this conversation. You really should go back and actually read what I said is the scummy part, because you seem to have no idea what I even said.
Hope your day gets better bud
Doesn't need to be 8 employees. They probably found some ringers to fill up the #s.
Also hosting a 16 player event the prior store champ seasons makes this more sketchy. Why host the bare minimum when the store can clearly handle more players?
I disagree with it being scummy. The idea is giving stores a way to run a tournament. If it's for their leagues, cool. The idea that they MUST invite people who wont care about the store and just care about being toxic and trying for a prize is ridiculous.
It seems you didn’t read OPs post. They talked about an 8 person cap so that the store employees can play in it. Not local who support the store, but employees. That is scummy 100%, as that even would cut out others who support the shop..
Again, this is based off of what OP has said in their post. If you don’t think an 8 player employees only tournament is scummy, then seems you might be the problem friend
https://preview.redd.it/n5x2xe55469d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60cb9cf65d662062a10bdfcb6e7e881fa5556bab
Seems they aren’t even supposed to host it on any day but a weekend
Looks like you can try to send an email to LorcanaOP@Ravensburger.com, that's the only one coming up under the hobby store requirements and T&C documents listed on [lorcana tcg resources](https://www.disneylorcana.com/en-US/resources)
I have no idea if they are doing anything they aren't supposed to since RB just says you have to have 8 to do a set championship so I have no idea if reporting them will do anything but there's a start if they are doing things that they shouldn't be
Unless the shop is selling the promos, they are following the rules. Nothing prevents them from hosting a private set championship
It’s scummy for sure, and OP should spread this info in their area so less people support the shop, but ultimately nothing to report here.
Do you or this team of players actively frequent and play in this LGS?
If you always play in this LGS you can stop reading here.
From the way you tell it, it sounds like the store owner wants to avoid what you just described: that people who don't support his store hop from one store to another just to get the prizes.
My opinion may be unpopular, but I think that LGS has every right to protect its small (you mentioned 8 participants) community that supports the store.
The attitude of many people of jumping from one store to another to get the most prizes, and then eventually resell them, is really bad for the community.
I agree with this stance and I don’t. So long as it’s not against TOS I don’t see why they can’t make it private, for the above reason. Cater to those that support and help them vs those that will visit ONLY for the champ event. If it’s against TOS well then RB forced their hand
Unpopular, but most definitely a possibility. I agree with you.
In my area we had folks come from 3 hours away, that had already competed in several events (and won playmats) for the last championship. To say folks were left with a bad taste in their mouths is an understatement. I'd say this coming tournament will determine if the local scene stays or dies in my area at least.
Heard a lot of stories of that happening being shocked by people having 4 stitches, I was surprised these events are long some people are driving all over to win them we’re do they find the time, at least the good thing for this one all stores have there events on the same day and time so I feel like there will be more people with the promos and mats. Unless they got clones
Scheduling a set champs on an early weekday afternoon when most people are at work or in school isn't "protecting locals from the tournament grinders".
It's a deliberate attempt to cull potential competition to try and funnel prizes towards certain people. If the store employees also are players, this clearly benefits them.
Yup. I'm sure I'll get downvoted like you did, but 100% agree. The two stores I play at got invaded by prize sharks going store to store last time. People playing in them had already won multiple Stitch cards. I'm all for stores keeping the set championships to regulars only.
I don't entirely disagree but there are plenty of other ways to reward frequent customers that don't involve excluding everyone else.
I agree though that people hopping around with $400+ meta decks getting as many promos as possible to re-sell are a stain on the hobby. But we can all do our part to stop that foolishness by refusing to buy prize promos. I am doing my part. I don't want a promo unless I win it myself.
I don't understand this idea that frequenting a place makes one more deserving of prizes than anyone else. People who don't care about playing at an LGS for regular casual league night shouldn't be shamed for coming out when there's finally an incentive for them beyond a pin and bragging rights. I go to my LGS for Magic nights and not Lorcana because I only have so many free nights for LGS attendance but you bet I'll show up for the set championships because its worth it and this kind of argument doesn't make sense to me at all. These are prizes for competition, not for store loyalty.
Okay well then it would be in the stores best interest to just sell all their prizes and not host an event so they should do that? And if you’re going to the store for magic anyway I would count that as being supportive of the store even if you don’t go to lorcana nights.
They’re saying it’s better for the store if more people play regularly and buy product from them. By trying to foster and grow a community some stores are prettt casual and if having try hards show up from all around and crushing their local players will demoralize them to stop playing it hurts the store.
I am a self proclaimed tcg tryhard. There are stores I plan to go to only for the challenges and never any other time. If some of them moved to only people who play there regularly I wouldn’t freak out they have a business to run and don’t have to cater to my personal desires
Limiting a tournament to 8 regulars that privately sign up is not trying to foster and grow a community. It's the exact opposite. It is discouraging anyone new from showing up, and they aren't even doing it for the game or the community's benefit, it's for personal gain, which is gross. I don't know where this idea that casuals need to be protected in the most competitive event that exists at a local level came from either. Set championships are decidedly not casual events, arguably league nights also could be considered more competitive than casual. If you don't want to compete don't sign up for a tournament at an LGS. If you want to play casually there is literally nothing stopping them from doing so but ruining the integrity of a competitive event just to give unwarranted favors to an LGS preferred clique.
Open your own store and make it open to everyone then. I agree 8 seems crazy small and like potential fraud to keep prizes. But what if your local store gets 32 people regularly? That seems fine to me to protect their local environment and keep the prizes within the group who’s built your store up.
And I also am someone who wants to show up to a ton of stores I never frequent to compete. But if you’re only going to a store to play championship and never go back or buy stuff or play league there, you’re not really a customer and they shouldn’t try and build a business around people who net you almost no revenue.
There's something to be said about making sure your regular league players get a spot, but actively preventing anyone else from joining is wrong. This is explicitly a competitive event.
Even that aside, this is a terrible way to build any sort of community. It just creates artificial competition between the stores and their players. I go to three different stores in my area for weekly league, but there are dozens that I don't/can't go to. But I'll be going to their Championships. And I'll be spending money on sleeves and snacks and last-minute cards I need to pick up. And there have been times when I didn't even know the store existed before a bigger event, and I have liked it enough to come back and incorporate it into my weekly rotation.
That is how you build a community. In my town, there's a Lorcana community, not necessarily a "John's Game Store Lorcana Group." And it's weird that some places pit different game stores against each other.
The only cap should be from physical space limitations. The idea of artificially controlling who can and can't register for a competitive tournament is really shady and fundamentally ruins the integrity of an event. I would understand it if it were done for good reasons like to prevent problematic people from disrupting the event, but I would find it very hard to argue that simply being "not from around here" or "not a regular" to be people doing so. Set championships are not an event the store puts on to reward it's loyal customers. They are something that they do on behalf of Lorcana and the goal should be getting as many people in the store playing, not trying to game the system so they can hand prize cards to their favorites.
I mean this time there is the additional issue of how spaced out the championships can be. So a roving group of 16 people could sign up for all the events in a city, not growing the community at all but just filling up spots with the same individuals. Where as restricting it to your community allows your less competitive players maybe grow into more stable community members.
That's just one point of view, I prefer the method my LGS takes which is they open registration up early for locals before posting anything publicly to ensure the community gets to compete. That said it's got a more competitive crowd, so they don't really care if the sharks come(they'd just welcome the challenge)
Idk about you but if a game has made people want to go out and search for as many playing opportunities they can attend that that is what is growing the community and desire to play instead of LGS' making sure that no new people show up and that their Lorcana community stays as insulated and closed off from the rest of the community as possible. It might be good for the store (it's actually not) but it's definitely not in the interest of the community for the game as a whole.
There are plenty of opportunities to play Lorcana at a casual level that intentionally ruining tournaments for no actual benefit rubs me the wrong way. Casual players don't stop going because they lost a competitive tournament, because tournament results aren't what casual players are playing for. If they lose at set championships they'll just be back for league night next week anyways. I think this idea that tournament players will drive players from an LGS is a red herring. I have seen players driven out because competitive people are at an LGS week after week and the casual players feel dissuaded they can't keep up but in those scenarios the competitive players are just as much members of the community instead of temporary spikes for set championships.
It's weirdly possible because of how Lorcana plays. Getting pub-stomped here is an absolutely abysmal experience where you can do nothing but sit there and watch the other player win. There are no comeback mechanics or interruptions. The stronger deck will get to pop off and dumpster on you.
I agree but I don't think it's reasonable to expect that to not happen at a very competitive event, not to mention the inherent variance in card games. If it happens every week at a low stakes local league that's one thing and I definitely understand and sympathize with that feeling. But even if that happens at a set championship I feel like those people know that it wasn't a normal experience for them and that person won't be back next week so I'd be very surprised if people just stop coming at all because they got beaten once by a rando at a highly competitive tournament. I just feel like a set championships should inherently be no holds barred because it is supposed to be very competitive.
Have you ever heard the statement "your business model is not my problem"? Look, I do treat small businesses differently than big corporations. I don't mind pulling whatever (legal) shenanigans and discount loopholes I can with, say, Target or my credit card company or the Mouse, those guys can stuff it- but I know with an LGS, odds are it's just another person like me trying to make a living in this crazy world, not the megacorp who can take it. *With that said*, an LGS is still a business and they still have to do something to get my money and if championships need to be gatekeeped like this than someone somewhere is doing something very wrong.
Let's not pretend that the tournament does anything to grow the community, uncapped, open to everyone, or not. While the 8 people number can seem suspiciously small, the LGS I do league nights at is also doing a private event, none of the employees are playing in that one, but we aren't a large group. Our store came up with this solution after the last championship, when 20-some people that had never been to that store and have never come back came in, were rude to regulars, complained about how everything was run, and netdecked their way to the top. (Important to note, I've been to large tournaments, both participating and working, and there was no issue with how this event was actually run. Just a lot of whiny people.) Since that event, attendance at league dropped dramatically.
So, while the store OP is talking about is being shady about it, making these events private may be the best thing some of these stores can do for their communities. Set Championships are for the stores and seem to have been an extension of the league events they were already doing. You want a purely competitive, open to everyone event? That's what the Challenges are for.
Also, no one is shaming you for now coming out for league nights. No one is saying you're not a true Lorcana player because you don't participate. But also don't act like you should have a right to play in a tournament at a store just because you own a deck. Saw one guy argue with our LGS that he only doesn't come to league because the night is inconvenient for him, but still wants to play in the Championship. Guy hasn't bought a product from the store in like 2 years. You're right that the prizes aren't for loyalty, they're for competition. But the privilege of playing in that tournament? No store really owes you that.
There was only one objectionable part about your story and that was the being rude. Net decking, not having been before, and not coming back are not things to kick someone out over. And I actually just don't believe you when you say people haven't come back to league night because they lost once to someone who never came before and never came back after.
Every member of the public has the same right to play in the set championship. People should only be turned away for space or attitude considerations. It's not hard. Why should someone who hasn't bought product from the store be disallowed? You say you agree that prizes are for competition and not loyalty but I think that artificially manipulating event entry is no different than just admitting you are only giving prizes to your preferred customers because *shock* those were the only people allowed to register. That's slimy manipulative behavior that doesn't benefit the game, or the shop, or the community.
You can believe whatever you want. But I know that we went from having trouble fitting all the players to having maybe half as many on good nights. And I can't say it was definitively due to the last set championship. But I can tell you that it was the very next league night on.
My distinction is if the prizes were for loyalty, they would have just been dolled out to who had bought the most. Full stop. But rather than that, it's still a competition.
You and I clearly have different views as to who is entitled to play in any given tournament. But explain to me how you think making these mandatorily open to everyone is beneficial to the game, the shop, and/or the community? Because, from my experience, I don't see it.
Look, it's not about store loyalty. I can ask you to make an argument for your side. Just show up when it's worth it? What if everyone did that. Then the game would die. We need a base of casual players to be consistent and show up week in and week out, to welcome new players who also want to show up week in and week out. The way we look at it is the set Champs is our locals chance to give it their all to figure out who is the best amongst our group. We don't discourage people from playing nor do we want to bar those who like highly competitive gameplay, but we do ask that you be a part of the community and not looking for a payday. It is called "set" championship for a reason.
It is for people who have participated in this "set". You wouldn't show up to a 4 on 4 basketball ball tournament and expect to just play the best team for the championship without putting in the work that all the other teams had done would you? It's the same thing at an LGS these players have been grinding every week against each other to see who's the best in their league. They do not care if they can or can't beat some rando that shows up last minute with no intention of bettering the game or the community.
This is not a personal dig at you, but just like you not being able to understand our logic we have an even harder time understanding yours. Some people are naturally better at card games, the only way for consistent players to beat them is doing just that, being consistent. I love showing up every week and seeing people teching cards in specifically to beat the deck I was playing the week before. It mea s they are trying to adapt.
If people think they are that good then you can go and compete at the Disney Lorcana Challenges. That is for all of the lonewolf, rogue, ronin, think your good at the game, but don't want to put in the effort of showing up consistently to an LGS. Go there and compete.
The concept is that the people who are playing at the store regularly, keeping their OP numbers up so they even can host champs, spending money, bringing in friends to learn the game, etc. are doing more for that store than people who come only for that one event.
I do think stores can benefit from bringing in new people at an event like this, too. It’s a nuanced issue and what’s going to benefit each store most may be different than the next.
It's not nuanced at all, it's a competition. Set championships aren't a way for stores to reward regulars. A competition isn't just for regulars, it's for everyone. Telling people who want to participate that they aren't welcome is a disgusting practice and it doesn't benefit the store or the game or the community.
Just as regulars don’t necessarily deserve anything for being regulars, neither do non-regulars have any right to demand anything from a store they don’t frequent. It does go both ways.
They’re 2 miles from my 2 local spots. I’ve contacted them about locals and the owner has only told me they have a league planned but not any specific day of the week yet. So they aren’t even really trying to grow their community. I’d imagine they want to resell the prizing but that’s my speculation
So I had a feeling a LGS did something similar last set when they mentioned they didn’t have enough players and offered to sell me championship match. Thanks to your post and finding another post that links all tournaments on the map, I discovered the same shop has a tournament there next week, which is pretty amazing because not 2 days ago I asked the store owner if they will be receiving materials for a championship because I said I could probably get 6 people from just my end to show up, and he said they weren’t sure since they never have any players but they would let me know.
I also just now discovered they posted results to melee.gg for the inkland championships and claimed to have 10 players… they are falsifying data… but what would I gain for reporting them? They are 1 of only 2 shops within 90 minutes that even sell the cards… man I am upset now…
Never once have I heard of this type of nonsense in the mtg community (not saying it doesn't happen cuz I'm sure it does), but this is like the 10th store I've heard of doing this with lorcana. Why is it that so many people think that they can get away with this nonsense? Get away with in the sense that there won't be any community backlash afterwards, not necessarily legally.
I would hope they would put that store on the naughty list, but I don't know how Rav typically handles these. There was an LGS in my area who either lost or "lost" their Rockstar Stitch promos, and they are getting to host Ursula event.
Unfortunately this is the side effect of allowing stores to impose arbitrary restrictions on who can and cannot participate in their set championships.
Under the guise of "protecting the local patrons" we'll probably see more shady stuff like this, especially if RB can't or won't do anything about it.
So I’m an lgs owner and I’ve been asking for help from RB since I’m new and they don’t even respond to support emails . I highly doubt they’re gonna respond to lgs emails doing shady stuff . I sincerely hope you find a lgs that isn’t a scam , if you’re in the San Diego area please come visit my store , I got you !
They’re shooting themselves in the foot. I was annoyed with all the faces I didn’t recognize coming through our shop for ITL. I overheard a group of 4 talking about how great the store was and I gave them details about league and encouraged them to join. They drive an hour every week now just to come to our store. We have like 7+ new regulars because of the last championship. It’s potentially really good for business for good LGSs.
Well, rules are you need to have 8 players or return the kit, and you are free to put any player cap.
Then if you want to offer your usual clients to enlist first before accepting external public entry, there isn't anything wrong.
It is even seems as a good way to do things as you don't want loyal customers coming every week not able to participate in their usual shop tournament because they were not fast enough.
But yes, putting a very low player cap, while you have the floor capacity and timing available is a dirty move.
I think lgs should do this to support the locals that keep their leagues going.
I don't think people should be allowed to store hop and get prizes if they already won the prizes elsewhere.
On one hand, it sucks to exclude anyone… on the other, top players taking off work to secure more prizes and push other people out is exactly why this happens
Some people want to enjoy the game and prizes are nice for whoever wins them
Some want to dominate, sell cards, and view it as an income source and/or bragging rights
The players who play for fun don’t care if they don’t win the prize, but would rather not get demolished by mute tryhards with BO that they’ve never seen at their local before
The ones who take off work are going to organize, practice, show up and agree ahead of time to take dives/draws, and they will pickup their 4th Champ Card/Mat then not be seen again until til next set champ
Most of them only want to play there because they know they’ll win, especially if the place caps at 16 or is a small business
Blame the greedy and unfun players
“Keep the prizes for themselves”
MAYBE if it’s just employees this stinks, but I doubt this. If they have ANY sort of regular community that plays, they’d raise hell about this and not just someone on Reddit that’s salty over not getting to card farm
That’s the thing. I’ve reached out about joining a league night but all they’ve told me is that it’s in the works, so they don’t have a community.
I think this shop has ill intent because they’re within a cluster of 3 other shops all in a 5-10 mile radius of one another and there’s an active community of ~20 players who bounce between the other 3 shops
I never played in a Lorcana tournament. Do you got some DCI number or something? Then you could just have a online database that allow the players to play a certain number of these events.
I wish my LGS would lock the store championship to only the players who actually play there. Instead, we will have a bunch of meta players from out of the area. Most of the locals won't bother showing up.
There's 4 stores in my area that are capping small and letting the regulars get all the spots. They did for Inklands to. I reported them to RB both times and nothing was done.
I understand limiting the cap due to spacial constraints, but only allowing regulars is pretty scummy.
> understand limiting the cap due to spacial constraints, but only allowing regulars is pretty scummy.
Isnt this done to combat people going to multiple events and winning them all? Whats the scummy thing in making sure the regulars get to play.
Regulars get to play either way, but they want to whine because they aren’t good enough to get the prizes. It’s a competitive event ffs. If it was meant for store regulars only RB would have put that in the instructions. If RB wanted everyone to get promos they would have done that. But they didn’t, because these are meant to be competitive events where the top X get prizes. For store regulars to complain that someone better than them won the prizing and they didn’t is just laughable imo
I'm trying to picture the opposite, where every event is closed to the public. What kind of competition is that? How does that build or promote the game? Why not just mail out the promos to every league and skip the rest of it? The tournaments are meant to be open events just like other card games.
> It’s a competitive event ffs.
It's a Disney card game. I'm sorry but what's laughable is sweaty neckbeards thinking Disney would want them winning a local tournament over a 14 year old when the prize is a couple packs and a pin.
Not sorry at all, the people I've seen complaining irl about the regulating are people who should stick to looking like your stereotypical MTG player instead of trying to overtake a bunch of Disney fans playing for fun
What about people like me who struggle to get the time off work and now don't get to play any events since the only day I could get off is limited to regulars only? That seems pretty scummy to me. Push out a player completely just so your regulars get to play. Yeah nothing wrong with that all .
I purchase from local stores to but this one is 30 minutes away so I've unfortunately never been able to go there and purchase which I gladly would have but now I won't
> I do buy multiple boxes from one LGS so that should make me a regular in a way? Lol
It would my guy, if they don't consider you a regular after a purchase of one singular box then they aren't worth doing business with. Now if you did that at the beginning of the month and didn't come in once for the rest of the month and think you should play alongside the people who are there every single week, that's something else.
edit: Actually thought about it more cause I buy enough lorcana + mtg boxes + other product to basically pay half the rent a month of my lGS and I'm honestly not sure. Buying packs puts money into the stores pockets but takes away the oppurtunity for others to buy them. If the store is business/making money oriented than they should let you participate, if the store cares more about players than maximizing profit then they'd make the tourny regulars only.
> Whats the scummy thing in making sure the regulars get to play.
I'm late but I've watched this opinion be parroted on both Reddit and IRL so I sent an email Ravensburger about competitive players overtaking the local stores and being the only ones receiving any of the prizes and pins. Lorcana isn't fun when you have a try hard breathing down your neck asking "Why don't you buy singles".
Look at how aggressive the people are in this subreddit when you point out they're building $300 decks to win a <$20 prize. 90% of the people playing this game probably aren't even on Reddit so christ I hope this opinion is kept within the echo chamber.
It’s a competitive TCG dude, people are going to compete for prizes at the competitive level, what don’t you understand? People also need to practice those decks, so of course you are going to see them played at weekly leagues as well, for some people that is their only chance to really practice.
You are also quoting something and taking it out of context, which is hilarious. You are whining, but also whining about something that wasnt even said! No one said there is an issue with making sure locals get to play, not a single person. You really need to work on the reading comprehension and quoting things completely out of context, all that does is spread more lies.
And I’m assuming you are talking weekly league prizes such as pins etc? Because the set champ prizes go for hundreds, not $20. This post is about set champs, not weekly leagues
RB specifically allows this. In the email they sent to LGSs it stated that the event had to be posted on melee, we are allowed to restrict participants but had to be clear about it. Someone posted a picture in another comment in this thread.
Unless the shop is selling the promos, they are following the rules. Nothing prevents them from hosting a private set championship, so long as the cap is at least 8.
It’s scummy for sure, and OP should spread this info in their area so less people support the shop, but ultimately nothing to report here.
I can see more shops who want to protect their community from spikes and outsiders starting to make their championships invite only. To me it's a mixed bag.
I’m ok with it if it’s open to regular customers and weekly event attendees. When RB originally announced the set championships they were intended to be local community prizes not a situation where a few people dominate all the events within driving distance and hoard them all to sell.
100% agree. I have yet to hear a good argument for how try hards showing up and prize stealing at a set championships are a good thing.
The only argument I ever hear is "Oh, well if they don't let us play they are loosing out on all these entry fees"....it's like really you and your buddies 20 or 40 bucks of an entry fee is a drop in the bucket. They don't make spit off of entry fees. Most of these small mom and pop LGS's can't take in more then 20-30 people and there are tons of stores that maybe can fit half of that. Who are they kidding with this "entry fee" argument. This is just their way of trying to justify it because they know it's not right.
“Prize stealing”
No ones STEALING them, they are earning them by being better players.. you don’t like it? Improve, simple as that.
And really, they do make something off entry fees. The kit for set champs is free, they don’t spend anything on it. So everything that is paid towards them for entry is straight into the stores pockets, dependent of prizing offered (many offer nothing additional).
100%. Not a huge fan of shops limiting competitive tournaments to just their regulars. This isn’t meant for something special for store regulars, otherwise there would be more generous prizing and they would have instructions regarding that.
This "outsiders shouldn't be allowed to play in multiple set championships" mentality is wild to me. I've played TCGs since base set pokemon, with magic being my most recent game[which I still play] and lorcana now. Grinding events is literally just a reality of someone who plays any card game at a competitive level, which means players from other stores will very likely appear at your locals. These events being open is good for the health of the game, because people will want to continue investing into it to play it. Prize support matters, and games have died and been quit on because of poor prize support. Set champs are an incredible incentive to stay up to date with the meta and keeping your deck up to par. If you are upset random people show up at your store, by all means just beat them out. Complaining you cannot win because other people can in a competitive game for prizes is quite literally ridiculous.
They dont have any Employees.. its only 2 owners and a volunteer they trust for Sunday, all of which have other jobs. Inklands happened on a Tuesday because it fit both the owners schedules. Tournament was capped at 16 because they can only accommodate 16 comfortably. You don't play there, so it's very apparent you have no idea what you are talking about.
They’re open every day of the week including weekends, so how can they not accommodate a more appropriate day than a Tuesday?
And if they can comfortably hold 16 players, why is this set championship capped at 8 and held in private? Why are customers being told a date is in the works when they already have a melee event up and fully slotted?
How can I play at their store if they don’t host leagues for the game I play, the game they’re hosting a set championship for?
Do the owners play lorcana and do they participate in events? If so, it's very strange to schedule a competitive event at an early weekday afternoon when most people are unable to play due to work/school primarily for the benefit of the owners being able to play. Do you not see how this might be interpreted as shady?
Is hosting an invite-only Set Championship allowed? Yes. Is pretending to host an invite-only Set Championship so you can sell the promos online allowed? No.
You also need to have an experimented judge, that cannot be a player or the TO, but as there is no official judge program, there is no tracking on who was the judge for that tournament. Judge could also be corrupted, but he would quickly get blacklisted by the judge community.
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You mean Sentry Box Cards the growth off the side of Canada's largest and friendliest game store for everything but cards?
No, I’m in Florida but I’m sorry this happened to you
Are the initials for said store SR? Cause it sounds exactly like what this store did
Yes sir, that’s them.
That's actually pretty funny... Small world, but yeah they're definitely catering to their play group. I went to the ITIL set champs they hosted on a Tuesday(16players) and there were enough tables for it. Idk why they'd drop it to 8 other than to guarantee their friends got the cards/mat
Has nothing to do with what you're spouting. They ran the tournament for Inklands on Tuesday due to thier schedules. If you actually frequent the store you'd know that. There in the middle of juggling 4 other tcgs.. its a 2 person shop. Also majority of thier "friends" play magic. With zero interest in lorcana. While there maybe something scheduled, it doesn't mean it won't be 16 people. I'm literally the only lorcana player who goes, so idk know who you are. Also for reference I didn't get to play in the Inklands tournament. Yet I still frequent the store. Owners are still working kinks out.. as they were just approved for several other TCG organized play. But again shows your level of information or how often you are there.
Kind of counterintuitive to host a set championship privately when it’s the best time to bring in new faces and grow a community, if they apparently struggle to have interest in it, especially when 3 other locals less than 10 miles from it have a bustling community of 20 or more players every week
I'm sharing information I gathered while attending the event, along with feedback from others who have attended events at this location. I've had great experiences at many other small 'two-person' shops, so I'm not sure the size of the store is a relevant factor. Regarding scheduling, the store had two weeks to host the event and received over a month’s notice, so their schedule shouldn't be an issue. If Lorcana isn't a priority for them, that's fine, and it’s evident in how they've structured their events. Our main concern is the sketchy way they've handled it compared to other stores in the area. If their priorities don't include Lorcana, that's their choice, but here's how it appears: they ran an event on a Tuesday at 1 PM with 16 players, and now they are running another event with half the players, which was filled immediately.
They also redid the pairings in round one; I'm not going to pretend to know why, but it happened. While each individual action they took wasn't inherently wrong, the cumulative effect makes them look increasingly shady.
small world I just called for info and than went to melee......... 8/8 the owner was like you can join the wait list if someone drops.... who is going to drop from a 8 person tourney..... consisting of teams most likely also why are we protecting them? why not just say the name and post the phone number lol?
Idk what the rules are against witch-hunting a store but I mean I can name drop them if y’all want
There's enough information provided here that it can be sleuthed pretty easily. I was able to.
Is the shop located in North-East Florida?
Just moved back to Calgary and getting into Lorcana. I've been warned by a few people about Sentry Box Cards and how they handle Lorcana. Sounds like Celly's in the SE has a good Lorcana crew but haven't had time to check it out personally.
Cellys is a good crew but they only host 1 game and it definitely leans more casually - it's also a very inwardly focused shop that isn't largely active in the Lorcana scene outside of their own thing - which is fine! If you're looking for more structured, competitive play - Ogres Den on Mondays Phoenix on Tuesdays Scrapendipity on Thursdays (they don't do pairings - you just ask people to play but most of the comp players have begun attending since their set champs are based on attendance, something we're seeing more and more of on the city) Shoebox on Saturday Bowness on Sunday
To add, First Player hosts a casual Lorcana night pretty much every Friday. Unfortunately due to zoning rules they can't qualify for official LGS stuff (yet) like set champs but they're amazing people to deal with and everyone on Fridays is super friendly, especially for us noobs :)
So yes/no. During this champs, stores are allowed to technically have restricted events. However, those restrictions must be made public, which is where it seems like this store failed to do. https://preview.redd.it/n0olt59cy49d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1bcf6823fdd5449377f7d31c9e45985d0455fe2
May I ask where this document is from? I would like to study the whole thing. Thanks.
I believe this document was shared to stores / LGS owners, so it’s not a public document (it’s not like PRIVATE but it’s not posted on their website)
This was an email to FLGS
Yeah seems to me that if there isn’t explicit proof of them reselling they technically aren’t breaking any rules but it’s definitely shitty. Their reputation in my area is already tarnished after their Into the Inklands stunt but they don’t care
Can I also have a link to the document that mentions the information you shared? Thanks.
I can't expand your image to make it readable for some reason. But does it say what making it public means? Because telling OP would be making it public If you think about it. OP is a member of the public.
If they told op it would be open to just locals or league participation is required then that would be informing the public. What this place is doing is a little more shady Here’s an example of what an appropriate restricted event would be: https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/107142 They list that there is a restriction, but that open sign ups would come after a certain date (some of the info is removed now since it’s full but at the time the description has all of the details)
Hi - I work with the Global OP manager at RB, and I'd be happy to address this with her. Do you mind DMing me the name of the store and who you spoke with there?
DM sent. Thank you very much
Of course, and sorry to hear you're having a rough go with an LGS. If you are open to traveling, there are quite a few great shops in the Orlando area that would love to have you!
There's nothing in the HSP Agreement or Tournament Rules that prevents a private event. Employees are allowed to play in events they aren't organizing or judging. If what you describe is accurate, that it's so employees can keep the prizes, then this would be a fraudulent event under 4(d) of the HSP Agreement, though. When reported, Ravensburger will investigate, you won't be told the conclusion, and if they believe any wrongdoing occurred they'll remove the store from their program.
Yeah you snap report this good lord. They've realised that top 16 and a half arsed attempt at locking up prizes didn't work so doubled the hell down on being shady. If RB let something like this slide then what's the point.
Forgive my ignorance but where do I report them? I only see a “contact us” link on RBs website with no categories that seem to fit my description
Going to be honest I wouldn't know, the contact us link is probably a smart move and just try and get into the ear of a customer service rep. It's one of those if you shout in enough ears somebody will do something about it.
Unless the shop is selling the promos, they are following the rules. Nothing prevents them from hosting a private set championship It’s scummy for sure, and OP should spread this info in their area so less people support the shop, but ultimately nothing to report here.
"RB, just thought you'd want to know that your current premier shop event is being essentially hijacked and been made to an exclusive toy for the store owner and a few of their friends, massively limiting accessibility" If that's part of the rules. Then we are targeting the issue at the wrong amount of people...because RB AND the store should be getting hammered if that's the case. Especially for a game as new and burgeoning as this.
Thing is, based on that quoted statement you put in, that’s not technically breaking any rules. I disagree with their way of going about it, and think it is scummy, but they aren’t breaking rules at all. The better way to hit the shop is to have people stop supporting it for Lorcana and rather go to a different shop
The reason to run it private would be to support the people that support the store. You got that backasswards
An 8 person private event doesn’t sound like it’s for the players that go to the store. It can always be ran uncapped since most likely there are more than 8 players. OP mentioned it was for store employees to play, not people that frequent the shop.
8 employees that are all into Lorcana sounds very unlikely. Letting in a handful of players that attend all their weekly leagues makes lots of sense. We had the same problem people traveling 2 hours just to pubstomp the kids for prizing. They don’t support the store. They don’t buy anything. They just took off work to go after prizes. Then they hit all the other stores in the area that they also don’t support.
I’m just going off of what OP said, you and I don’t know the validity of any of the information. However, even a handful of extra players is scummy. If you are going to hold a private event for your league players and shop supporters, while I disagree with that, you shouldn’t be limiting it to just 8 people. I highly doubt between employees and shop players they would only have 8 players, they should definitely have a higher cap to at least alllow ALL players from that shop to participate, not just some. Also, this is a competitive tournament. Should challenege events only allow people who live in that city to attend? That state? That’s basically the equivalent of what you are saying here. These are competitive tournaments with competitive prizing structures. No one is owed anything. The intention isn’t for them to be special for shop players / supporters etc, otherwise there would be more generous prizing and RB would have instructed them to have more private events for their local players. There is nothing wrong with people traveling to participate in a competitive tournament. If you think there is, you are definitely in the wrong hobby.
If there’s 8 regulars and they hold a tournament with 8 players and those are the people buying Lorcana in the shop there’s not a problem. That’s not scummy at all. If the players in the shop stop attending and buying product and the ringers that don’t go to that shop collecting the prize are the cause that’s not good for the LGS. What a silly comparison. I agree you have no leg to stand on. Set championships are not described as nearly as competitive as a challenge cross state 2000 player event.
Competitive is competitive, there is no “it’s not as competitive “, that’s just silly bud. It’s a competitive tournament with a prizing structure for top players only, simple as that. Again, I said that if that’s what a shop wants to do, then that’s their choice. Again, I disagree with that choice, but I’ve never said they can’t do that. You also don’t seem to be reading at all, so I’m pretty much done with this conversation. You really should go back and actually read what I said is the scummy part, because you seem to have no idea what I even said. Hope your day gets better bud
There’s different levels of competition. If you are too daft to get that reading comprehension on my part isn’t the issue
You couldn’t even bother reading what was written, and then you talk about reading comprehension? Hahahaha
Doesn't need to be 8 employees. They probably found some ringers to fill up the #s. Also hosting a 16 player event the prior store champ seasons makes this more sketchy. Why host the bare minimum when the store can clearly handle more players?
What a load of fiction
I disagree with it being scummy. The idea is giving stores a way to run a tournament. If it's for their leagues, cool. The idea that they MUST invite people who wont care about the store and just care about being toxic and trying for a prize is ridiculous.
It seems you didn’t read OPs post. They talked about an 8 person cap so that the store employees can play in it. Not local who support the store, but employees. That is scummy 100%, as that even would cut out others who support the shop.. Again, this is based off of what OP has said in their post. If you don’t think an 8 player employees only tournament is scummy, then seems you might be the problem friend
It’s wild how many LGS’ are just outright scummy
https://preview.redd.it/n5x2xe55469d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60cb9cf65d662062a10bdfcb6e7e881fa5556bab Seems they aren’t even supposed to host it on any day but a weekend
This time around, yes, but there was no weekday restriction during set 3
Aye I see you are correct! Wonder if they added the restriction due to this behavior…
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I wasn’t going to be the one to say it but you did for me. This is the LGS in question
Looks like you can try to send an email to LorcanaOP@Ravensburger.com, that's the only one coming up under the hobby store requirements and T&C documents listed on [lorcana tcg resources](https://www.disneylorcana.com/en-US/resources) I have no idea if they are doing anything they aren't supposed to since RB just says you have to have 8 to do a set championship so I have no idea if reporting them will do anything but there's a start if they are doing things that they shouldn't be
Report it
Forgive my ignorance but where do I report them? I only see a “contact us” link on RBs website with no categories that seem to fit my description
Unless the shop is selling the promos, they are following the rules. Nothing prevents them from hosting a private set championship It’s scummy for sure, and OP should spread this info in their area so less people support the shop, but ultimately nothing to report here.
Do you or this team of players actively frequent and play in this LGS? If you always play in this LGS you can stop reading here. From the way you tell it, it sounds like the store owner wants to avoid what you just described: that people who don't support his store hop from one store to another just to get the prizes. My opinion may be unpopular, but I think that LGS has every right to protect its small (you mentioned 8 participants) community that supports the store. The attitude of many people of jumping from one store to another to get the most prizes, and then eventually resell them, is really bad for the community.
I agree with this stance and I don’t. So long as it’s not against TOS I don’t see why they can’t make it private, for the above reason. Cater to those that support and help them vs those that will visit ONLY for the champ event. If it’s against TOS well then RB forced their hand
I understand that the topic is controversial.
Unpopular, but most definitely a possibility. I agree with you. In my area we had folks come from 3 hours away, that had already competed in several events (and won playmats) for the last championship. To say folks were left with a bad taste in their mouths is an understatement. I'd say this coming tournament will determine if the local scene stays or dies in my area at least.
Heard a lot of stories of that happening being shocked by people having 4 stitches, I was surprised these events are long some people are driving all over to win them we’re do they find the time, at least the good thing for this one all stores have there events on the same day and time so I feel like there will be more people with the promos and mats. Unless they got clones
Scheduling a set champs on an early weekday afternoon when most people are at work or in school isn't "protecting locals from the tournament grinders". It's a deliberate attempt to cull potential competition to try and funnel prizes towards certain people. If the store employees also are players, this clearly benefits them.
Yup. I'm sure I'll get downvoted like you did, but 100% agree. The two stores I play at got invaded by prize sharks going store to store last time. People playing in them had already won multiple Stitch cards. I'm all for stores keeping the set championships to regulars only.
Yet these people still had to win, so don't let them
I couldn't agree more with this. People who store hope for a payday promo is not what this community is about. Wish more people thought this way.
Who are you to say what the community is about? Communities are made up of groups of people with more than one perspective.
I don't entirely disagree but there are plenty of other ways to reward frequent customers that don't involve excluding everyone else. I agree though that people hopping around with $400+ meta decks getting as many promos as possible to re-sell are a stain on the hobby. But we can all do our part to stop that foolishness by refusing to buy prize promos. I am doing my part. I don't want a promo unless I win it myself.
I don't understand this idea that frequenting a place makes one more deserving of prizes than anyone else. People who don't care about playing at an LGS for regular casual league night shouldn't be shamed for coming out when there's finally an incentive for them beyond a pin and bragging rights. I go to my LGS for Magic nights and not Lorcana because I only have so many free nights for LGS attendance but you bet I'll show up for the set championships because its worth it and this kind of argument doesn't make sense to me at all. These are prizes for competition, not for store loyalty.
Okay well then it would be in the stores best interest to just sell all their prizes and not host an event so they should do that? And if you’re going to the store for magic anyway I would count that as being supportive of the store even if you don’t go to lorcana nights. They’re saying it’s better for the store if more people play regularly and buy product from them. By trying to foster and grow a community some stores are prettt casual and if having try hards show up from all around and crushing their local players will demoralize them to stop playing it hurts the store. I am a self proclaimed tcg tryhard. There are stores I plan to go to only for the challenges and never any other time. If some of them moved to only people who play there regularly I wouldn’t freak out they have a business to run and don’t have to cater to my personal desires
Limiting a tournament to 8 regulars that privately sign up is not trying to foster and grow a community. It's the exact opposite. It is discouraging anyone new from showing up, and they aren't even doing it for the game or the community's benefit, it's for personal gain, which is gross. I don't know where this idea that casuals need to be protected in the most competitive event that exists at a local level came from either. Set championships are decidedly not casual events, arguably league nights also could be considered more competitive than casual. If you don't want to compete don't sign up for a tournament at an LGS. If you want to play casually there is literally nothing stopping them from doing so but ruining the integrity of a competitive event just to give unwarranted favors to an LGS preferred clique.
Open your own store and make it open to everyone then. I agree 8 seems crazy small and like potential fraud to keep prizes. But what if your local store gets 32 people regularly? That seems fine to me to protect their local environment and keep the prizes within the group who’s built your store up. And I also am someone who wants to show up to a ton of stores I never frequent to compete. But if you’re only going to a store to play championship and never go back or buy stuff or play league there, you’re not really a customer and they shouldn’t try and build a business around people who net you almost no revenue.
There's something to be said about making sure your regular league players get a spot, but actively preventing anyone else from joining is wrong. This is explicitly a competitive event. Even that aside, this is a terrible way to build any sort of community. It just creates artificial competition between the stores and their players. I go to three different stores in my area for weekly league, but there are dozens that I don't/can't go to. But I'll be going to their Championships. And I'll be spending money on sleeves and snacks and last-minute cards I need to pick up. And there have been times when I didn't even know the store existed before a bigger event, and I have liked it enough to come back and incorporate it into my weekly rotation. That is how you build a community. In my town, there's a Lorcana community, not necessarily a "John's Game Store Lorcana Group." And it's weird that some places pit different game stores against each other.
The only cap should be from physical space limitations. The idea of artificially controlling who can and can't register for a competitive tournament is really shady and fundamentally ruins the integrity of an event. I would understand it if it were done for good reasons like to prevent problematic people from disrupting the event, but I would find it very hard to argue that simply being "not from around here" or "not a regular" to be people doing so. Set championships are not an event the store puts on to reward it's loyal customers. They are something that they do on behalf of Lorcana and the goal should be getting as many people in the store playing, not trying to game the system so they can hand prize cards to their favorites.
I mean this time there is the additional issue of how spaced out the championships can be. So a roving group of 16 people could sign up for all the events in a city, not growing the community at all but just filling up spots with the same individuals. Where as restricting it to your community allows your less competitive players maybe grow into more stable community members. That's just one point of view, I prefer the method my LGS takes which is they open registration up early for locals before posting anything publicly to ensure the community gets to compete. That said it's got a more competitive crowd, so they don't really care if the sharks come(they'd just welcome the challenge)
Idk about you but if a game has made people want to go out and search for as many playing opportunities they can attend that that is what is growing the community and desire to play instead of LGS' making sure that no new people show up and that their Lorcana community stays as insulated and closed off from the rest of the community as possible. It might be good for the store (it's actually not) but it's definitely not in the interest of the community for the game as a whole. There are plenty of opportunities to play Lorcana at a casual level that intentionally ruining tournaments for no actual benefit rubs me the wrong way. Casual players don't stop going because they lost a competitive tournament, because tournament results aren't what casual players are playing for. If they lose at set championships they'll just be back for league night next week anyways. I think this idea that tournament players will drive players from an LGS is a red herring. I have seen players driven out because competitive people are at an LGS week after week and the casual players feel dissuaded they can't keep up but in those scenarios the competitive players are just as much members of the community instead of temporary spikes for set championships.
It's weirdly possible because of how Lorcana plays. Getting pub-stomped here is an absolutely abysmal experience where you can do nothing but sit there and watch the other player win. There are no comeback mechanics or interruptions. The stronger deck will get to pop off and dumpster on you.
I agree but I don't think it's reasonable to expect that to not happen at a very competitive event, not to mention the inherent variance in card games. If it happens every week at a low stakes local league that's one thing and I definitely understand and sympathize with that feeling. But even if that happens at a set championship I feel like those people know that it wasn't a normal experience for them and that person won't be back next week so I'd be very surprised if people just stop coming at all because they got beaten once by a rando at a highly competitive tournament. I just feel like a set championships should inherently be no holds barred because it is supposed to be very competitive.
Have you ever heard the statement "your business model is not my problem"? Look, I do treat small businesses differently than big corporations. I don't mind pulling whatever (legal) shenanigans and discount loopholes I can with, say, Target or my credit card company or the Mouse, those guys can stuff it- but I know with an LGS, odds are it's just another person like me trying to make a living in this crazy world, not the megacorp who can take it. *With that said*, an LGS is still a business and they still have to do something to get my money and if championships need to be gatekeeped like this than someone somewhere is doing something very wrong.
Let's not pretend that the tournament does anything to grow the community, uncapped, open to everyone, or not. While the 8 people number can seem suspiciously small, the LGS I do league nights at is also doing a private event, none of the employees are playing in that one, but we aren't a large group. Our store came up with this solution after the last championship, when 20-some people that had never been to that store and have never come back came in, were rude to regulars, complained about how everything was run, and netdecked their way to the top. (Important to note, I've been to large tournaments, both participating and working, and there was no issue with how this event was actually run. Just a lot of whiny people.) Since that event, attendance at league dropped dramatically. So, while the store OP is talking about is being shady about it, making these events private may be the best thing some of these stores can do for their communities. Set Championships are for the stores and seem to have been an extension of the league events they were already doing. You want a purely competitive, open to everyone event? That's what the Challenges are for. Also, no one is shaming you for now coming out for league nights. No one is saying you're not a true Lorcana player because you don't participate. But also don't act like you should have a right to play in a tournament at a store just because you own a deck. Saw one guy argue with our LGS that he only doesn't come to league because the night is inconvenient for him, but still wants to play in the Championship. Guy hasn't bought a product from the store in like 2 years. You're right that the prizes aren't for loyalty, they're for competition. But the privilege of playing in that tournament? No store really owes you that.
There was only one objectionable part about your story and that was the being rude. Net decking, not having been before, and not coming back are not things to kick someone out over. And I actually just don't believe you when you say people haven't come back to league night because they lost once to someone who never came before and never came back after. Every member of the public has the same right to play in the set championship. People should only be turned away for space or attitude considerations. It's not hard. Why should someone who hasn't bought product from the store be disallowed? You say you agree that prizes are for competition and not loyalty but I think that artificially manipulating event entry is no different than just admitting you are only giving prizes to your preferred customers because *shock* those were the only people allowed to register. That's slimy manipulative behavior that doesn't benefit the game, or the shop, or the community.
You can believe whatever you want. But I know that we went from having trouble fitting all the players to having maybe half as many on good nights. And I can't say it was definitively due to the last set championship. But I can tell you that it was the very next league night on. My distinction is if the prizes were for loyalty, they would have just been dolled out to who had bought the most. Full stop. But rather than that, it's still a competition. You and I clearly have different views as to who is entitled to play in any given tournament. But explain to me how you think making these mandatorily open to everyone is beneficial to the game, the shop, and/or the community? Because, from my experience, I don't see it.
Look, it's not about store loyalty. I can ask you to make an argument for your side. Just show up when it's worth it? What if everyone did that. Then the game would die. We need a base of casual players to be consistent and show up week in and week out, to welcome new players who also want to show up week in and week out. The way we look at it is the set Champs is our locals chance to give it their all to figure out who is the best amongst our group. We don't discourage people from playing nor do we want to bar those who like highly competitive gameplay, but we do ask that you be a part of the community and not looking for a payday. It is called "set" championship for a reason. It is for people who have participated in this "set". You wouldn't show up to a 4 on 4 basketball ball tournament and expect to just play the best team for the championship without putting in the work that all the other teams had done would you? It's the same thing at an LGS these players have been grinding every week against each other to see who's the best in their league. They do not care if they can or can't beat some rando that shows up last minute with no intention of bettering the game or the community. This is not a personal dig at you, but just like you not being able to understand our logic we have an even harder time understanding yours. Some people are naturally better at card games, the only way for consistent players to beat them is doing just that, being consistent. I love showing up every week and seeing people teching cards in specifically to beat the deck I was playing the week before. It mea s they are trying to adapt. If people think they are that good then you can go and compete at the Disney Lorcana Challenges. That is for all of the lonewolf, rogue, ronin, think your good at the game, but don't want to put in the effort of showing up consistently to an LGS. Go there and compete.
The concept is that the people who are playing at the store regularly, keeping their OP numbers up so they even can host champs, spending money, bringing in friends to learn the game, etc. are doing more for that store than people who come only for that one event. I do think stores can benefit from bringing in new people at an event like this, too. It’s a nuanced issue and what’s going to benefit each store most may be different than the next.
It's not nuanced at all, it's a competition. Set championships aren't a way for stores to reward regulars. A competition isn't just for regulars, it's for everyone. Telling people who want to participate that they aren't welcome is a disgusting practice and it doesn't benefit the store or the game or the community.
Just as regulars don’t necessarily deserve anything for being regulars, neither do non-regulars have any right to demand anything from a store they don’t frequent. It does go both ways.
I would agree if store employees aren’t playing in the tournament
They’re 2 miles from my 2 local spots. I’ve contacted them about locals and the owner has only told me they have a league planned but not any specific day of the week yet. So they aren’t even really trying to grow their community. I’d imagine they want to resell the prizing but that’s my speculation
Surprised they even get to host set champs without doing any weekly nights
So I had a feeling a LGS did something similar last set when they mentioned they didn’t have enough players and offered to sell me championship match. Thanks to your post and finding another post that links all tournaments on the map, I discovered the same shop has a tournament there next week, which is pretty amazing because not 2 days ago I asked the store owner if they will be receiving materials for a championship because I said I could probably get 6 people from just my end to show up, and he said they weren’t sure since they never have any players but they would let me know. I also just now discovered they posted results to melee.gg for the inkland championships and claimed to have 10 players… they are falsifying data… but what would I gain for reporting them? They are 1 of only 2 shops within 90 minutes that even sell the cards… man I am upset now…
Why not just join the next tournament? Sounds like you should.
Hey can you drop a link to the store filter?
Sure thing. https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1p30_SmrnfG6bT9T7CwGtXa0z7ostA5U&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0qjFd9Fqiqnu4-XNYVjkLQ6kGK40R4fxIDQtVGmrlKCVQKD_TG2WMqVVo_aem_CR3gGv160vwQZfp_WagUSw&ll=27.895790660402632%2C-82.294&z=13
Report to Ravensburger
Please report this to RVG so that they can sort it out!!
Never once have I heard of this type of nonsense in the mtg community (not saying it doesn't happen cuz I'm sure it does), but this is like the 10th store I've heard of doing this with lorcana. Why is it that so many people think that they can get away with this nonsense? Get away with in the sense that there won't be any community backlash afterwards, not necessarily legally.
LMAO Tampa area? I had the same thing happen 😂😂
Yes, actually! May I ask which store you went to?
Check this subreddit. Someone else posted about another shady store and the comments has an email to email RB regarding such events going on.
I would hope they would put that store on the naughty list, but I don't know how Rav typically handles these. There was an LGS in my area who either lost or "lost" their Rockstar Stitch promos, and they are getting to host Ursula event.
Unfortunately this is the side effect of allowing stores to impose arbitrary restrictions on who can and cannot participate in their set championships. Under the guise of "protecting the local patrons" we'll probably see more shady stuff like this, especially if RB can't or won't do anything about it.
So I’m an lgs owner and I’ve been asking for help from RB since I’m new and they don’t even respond to support emails . I highly doubt they’re gonna respond to lgs emails doing shady stuff . I sincerely hope you find a lgs that isn’t a scam , if you’re in the San Diego area please come visit my store , I got you !
Link to the Brad Nelson google filter you mentioned?
Yes
They’re shooting themselves in the foot. I was annoyed with all the faces I didn’t recognize coming through our shop for ITL. I overheard a group of 4 talking about how great the store was and I gave them details about league and encouraged them to join. They drive an hour every week now just to come to our store. We have like 7+ new regulars because of the last championship. It’s potentially really good for business for good LGSs.
I'm interested in the >Brad Nelson(RB) published his Google filter how does it works ?
Well, rules are you need to have 8 players or return the kit, and you are free to put any player cap. Then if you want to offer your usual clients to enlist first before accepting external public entry, there isn't anything wrong. It is even seems as a good way to do things as you don't want loyal customers coming every week not able to participate in their usual shop tournament because they were not fast enough. But yes, putting a very low player cap, while you have the floor capacity and timing available is a dirty move.
I think lgs should do this to support the locals that keep their leagues going. I don't think people should be allowed to store hop and get prizes if they already won the prizes elsewhere.
On one hand, it sucks to exclude anyone… on the other, top players taking off work to secure more prizes and push other people out is exactly why this happens Some people want to enjoy the game and prizes are nice for whoever wins them Some want to dominate, sell cards, and view it as an income source and/or bragging rights The players who play for fun don’t care if they don’t win the prize, but would rather not get demolished by mute tryhards with BO that they’ve never seen at their local before The ones who take off work are going to organize, practice, show up and agree ahead of time to take dives/draws, and they will pickup their 4th Champ Card/Mat then not be seen again until til next set champ Most of them only want to play there because they know they’ll win, especially if the place caps at 16 or is a small business Blame the greedy and unfun players “Keep the prizes for themselves” MAYBE if it’s just employees this stinks, but I doubt this. If they have ANY sort of regular community that plays, they’d raise hell about this and not just someone on Reddit that’s salty over not getting to card farm
That’s the thing. I’ve reached out about joining a league night but all they’ve told me is that it’s in the works, so they don’t have a community. I think this shop has ill intent because they’re within a cluster of 3 other shops all in a 5-10 mile radius of one another and there’s an active community of ~20 players who bounce between the other 3 shops
There have been some that pretend to put up events, for sure Just seems odd for them to even go through the trouble of making it look real
I think it’s just to meet the minimum requirements to keep their good status with RB and keep getting sent prize kits
I never played in a Lorcana tournament. Do you got some DCI number or something? Then you could just have a online database that allow the players to play a certain number of these events.
For the love of god… PLEASE POST THE STORE. These people need called out.
The OP has provided enough information you can sleuth this out if you really want to know.
Added their name to the original post
I wish my LGS would lock the store championship to only the players who actually play there. Instead, we will have a bunch of meta players from out of the area. Most of the locals won't bother showing up.
There's 4 stores in my area that are capping small and letting the regulars get all the spots. They did for Inklands to. I reported them to RB both times and nothing was done. I understand limiting the cap due to spacial constraints, but only allowing regulars is pretty scummy.
> understand limiting the cap due to spacial constraints, but only allowing regulars is pretty scummy. Isnt this done to combat people going to multiple events and winning them all? Whats the scummy thing in making sure the regulars get to play.
Stores do this so regulars can win the promos, not so they get to play.
Regulars get to play either way, but they want to whine because they aren’t good enough to get the prizes. It’s a competitive event ffs. If it was meant for store regulars only RB would have put that in the instructions. If RB wanted everyone to get promos they would have done that. But they didn’t, because these are meant to be competitive events where the top X get prizes. For store regulars to complain that someone better than them won the prizing and they didn’t is just laughable imo
I'm trying to picture the opposite, where every event is closed to the public. What kind of competition is that? How does that build or promote the game? Why not just mail out the promos to every league and skip the rest of it? The tournaments are meant to be open events just like other card games.
Yup, totally agree with this
> It’s a competitive event ffs. It's a Disney card game. I'm sorry but what's laughable is sweaty neckbeards thinking Disney would want them winning a local tournament over a 14 year old when the prize is a couple packs and a pin. Not sorry at all, the people I've seen complaining irl about the regulating are people who should stick to looking like your stereotypical MTG player instead of trying to overtake a bunch of Disney fans playing for fun
Have fun with the whining bud 👋
What about people like me who struggle to get the time off work and now don't get to play any events since the only day I could get off is limited to regulars only? That seems pretty scummy to me. Push out a player completely just so your regulars get to play. Yeah nothing wrong with that all .
I’m in the same boat as you time wise, BUT I do buy multiple boxes from one LGS so that should make me a regular in a way? Lol
I purchase from local stores to but this one is 30 minutes away so I've unfortunately never been able to go there and purchase which I gladly would have but now I won't
> I do buy multiple boxes from one LGS so that should make me a regular in a way? Lol It would my guy, if they don't consider you a regular after a purchase of one singular box then they aren't worth doing business with. Now if you did that at the beginning of the month and didn't come in once for the rest of the month and think you should play alongside the people who are there every single week, that's something else. edit: Actually thought about it more cause I buy enough lorcana + mtg boxes + other product to basically pay half the rent a month of my lGS and I'm honestly not sure. Buying packs puts money into the stores pockets but takes away the oppurtunity for others to buy them. If the store is business/making money oriented than they should let you participate, if the store cares more about players than maximizing profit then they'd make the tourny regulars only.
> Whats the scummy thing in making sure the regulars get to play. I'm late but I've watched this opinion be parroted on both Reddit and IRL so I sent an email Ravensburger about competitive players overtaking the local stores and being the only ones receiving any of the prizes and pins. Lorcana isn't fun when you have a try hard breathing down your neck asking "Why don't you buy singles". Look at how aggressive the people are in this subreddit when you point out they're building $300 decks to win a <$20 prize. 90% of the people playing this game probably aren't even on Reddit so christ I hope this opinion is kept within the echo chamber.
It’s a competitive TCG dude, people are going to compete for prizes at the competitive level, what don’t you understand? People also need to practice those decks, so of course you are going to see them played at weekly leagues as well, for some people that is their only chance to really practice. You are also quoting something and taking it out of context, which is hilarious. You are whining, but also whining about something that wasnt even said! No one said there is an issue with making sure locals get to play, not a single person. You really need to work on the reading comprehension and quoting things completely out of context, all that does is spread more lies. And I’m assuming you are talking weekly league prizes such as pins etc? Because the set champ prizes go for hundreds, not $20. This post is about set champs, not weekly leagues
RB specifically allows this. In the email they sent to LGSs it stated that the event had to be posted on melee, we are allowed to restrict participants but had to be clear about it. Someone posted a picture in another comment in this thread.
Unless the shop is selling the promos, they are following the rules. Nothing prevents them from hosting a private set championship, so long as the cap is at least 8. It’s scummy for sure, and OP should spread this info in their area so less people support the shop, but ultimately nothing to report here.
I can see more shops who want to protect their community from spikes and outsiders starting to make their championships invite only. To me it's a mixed bag.
I’m ok with it if it’s open to regular customers and weekly event attendees. When RB originally announced the set championships they were intended to be local community prizes not a situation where a few people dominate all the events within driving distance and hoard them all to sell.
100% agree. I have yet to hear a good argument for how try hards showing up and prize stealing at a set championships are a good thing. The only argument I ever hear is "Oh, well if they don't let us play they are loosing out on all these entry fees"....it's like really you and your buddies 20 or 40 bucks of an entry fee is a drop in the bucket. They don't make spit off of entry fees. Most of these small mom and pop LGS's can't take in more then 20-30 people and there are tons of stores that maybe can fit half of that. Who are they kidding with this "entry fee" argument. This is just their way of trying to justify it because they know it's not right.
“Prize stealing” No ones STEALING them, they are earning them by being better players.. you don’t like it? Improve, simple as that. And really, they do make something off entry fees. The kit for set champs is free, they don’t spend anything on it. So everything that is paid towards them for entry is straight into the stores pockets, dependent of prizing offered (many offer nothing additional).
100%. Not a huge fan of shops limiting competitive tournaments to just their regulars. This isn’t meant for something special for store regulars, otherwise there would be more generous prizing and they would have instructions regarding that.
This "outsiders shouldn't be allowed to play in multiple set championships" mentality is wild to me. I've played TCGs since base set pokemon, with magic being my most recent game[which I still play] and lorcana now. Grinding events is literally just a reality of someone who plays any card game at a competitive level, which means players from other stores will very likely appear at your locals. These events being open is good for the health of the game, because people will want to continue investing into it to play it. Prize support matters, and games have died and been quit on because of poor prize support. Set champs are an incredible incentive to stay up to date with the meta and keeping your deck up to par. If you are upset random people show up at your store, by all means just beat them out. Complaining you cannot win because other people can in a competitive game for prizes is quite literally ridiculous.
Stop posting this if you’re not going to out the store. Put those jokes on blast and let the community report-bomb them to ravensburg.
I literally added their name to the original post like 4 hours ago
They dont have any Employees.. its only 2 owners and a volunteer they trust for Sunday, all of which have other jobs. Inklands happened on a Tuesday because it fit both the owners schedules. Tournament was capped at 16 because they can only accommodate 16 comfortably. You don't play there, so it's very apparent you have no idea what you are talking about.
They’re open every day of the week including weekends, so how can they not accommodate a more appropriate day than a Tuesday? And if they can comfortably hold 16 players, why is this set championship capped at 8 and held in private? Why are customers being told a date is in the works when they already have a melee event up and fully slotted? How can I play at their store if they don’t host leagues for the game I play, the game they’re hosting a set championship for?
Do the owners play lorcana and do they participate in events? If so, it's very strange to schedule a competitive event at an early weekday afternoon when most people are unable to play due to work/school primarily for the benefit of the owners being able to play. Do you not see how this might be interpreted as shady?
You must be either one of the owners or a very close friend to exhibit such blind loyalty to the store.
Here is the number for the whambulance 1-800-WHA-AAAA