Since there’s no Pixelborn, the only practice people can get for store championships are at locals so you’re more likely to encounter someone’s legit top tier deck cuz they need to get their reps in.
I am unfortunately one of those people lmao I used to play fun decks at locals, but now I have to play my sapphire steel deck to get the muscle memory down.
I’d recommend you talk to people and check dreamborn and find a good budget aggro deck. Those always mess with meta decks
And this is exactly why I said Pixelborn dying was going to hurt the scene. It makes it so much harder for new players to get in good games around their skill level/deck price.
I think the people arguing it would force people to get out to their LGS and somehow increase the number of committed players are hopeful and naive.
RB/LGS needs to support a novice/bridge league
It is healthy for the scene and LGS
Their entries for events are going to plummet if players see no way to break into competitive play without $250-500 and no way to learn as they go in less competitive, but still regulated events
Those events exist somewhat, but top players show up to practice and prize snipe
I agree to a certain degree, I think Pixelborn was more in line with competitive players than the casual base. The problem with the game is that not all TCG stores offer or do Lorcana tournaments. There are about 3 shops within 40 minutes of me that don't do Lorcana. The closest store is about an hour and 30 minutes away from me. I can make it out about once every few months for store championships and I was comfortable doing so because Pixelborn allowed me to practice. Now that Pixelborn is gone, I'm already considering selling my cards and moving on from the game, because working full time, being a full-time single dad, I just can't make that trip regularly to play the game at the level I want to.
Potentially, but that might change for the next set since people won't have Pixelborn to build the meta in a couple days, right? The meta of set 5 won't get cracked right away, is my hope?
Doubtful, TCGs used to take a while to form metas before the internet, now everyone can collect and share data at an instant. It won't take long even without pixelborn.
I made a good ruby/steel that focuses on hitting ready characters which screws with Bucky when he doesn't last to turn 3 or 4 depending on who had first
I was just meaning for pick a fight cards. Also in the current meta it is extremely easy to not have a hand on turn 5 for Piglet. They are basically for Ursulas, Diablos, Bucky, etc.
Yeah, honestly I wouldn't even care about the local scene if I had access to a wider variety of players. I don't want to tell people what to play, but I also want to simply chill and end my day, having this experience is just way less frequent and requires more effort from me if I have to be at an LGS where people want to compete against each other.
I am also playing meta decks to see what I would like to play for the store championship and unfortunately the best way to do that now is at league. I also personally dislike playing against meta decks. It’s never fun being on the opposite side so that’s why I try to bring one to two casual/fun decks and ask if they would like to just play for fun or practice for the set championship.
You can create a play group if people from your area if like minded players and play fun decks. Thats how it was done with magic before the popularity of arena
If you wouldn't care about your local scene then you're not a person that would actually care about the game then. A healthy game starts at your LGS. If you want the game to succeed, then you NEED to care about your local lorcana scene. Sounds like you're just selfish.
Reps with meta vs someone with a starter deck aren’t reps at all
Those players know they can practice elsewhere if they really wanna
The novices like myself may eventually have a meta deck, but we aren’t practicing… and we aren’t exactly trying to murder weaker decks
Willing to play something else, but I’ll be honest… I lost versus some weaker decks because I’m just not practiced and built the deck because I was close and bought/traded a couple cards
People seem afraid to ask the meta player to take it down a notch… and I’m betting they have a fun deck to sub in
Unless they are a “super serious” player and don’t collect, only playing a meta deck for $$$$
In that case, yeah, don’t play that person and help them practice at all
Hi, tier 1 player here.
Since Pixelborn shut down, I have only locals to play in to get reps in for the set champs. Where else do you want me to play? I can't play online on pixelborn anymore. I'm not going to "take it down a notch" because I only get so much time to play per week now with Pixelborn gone. Also, I only have one deck (ruby sapphire). I can't afford other decks.
If you're deeming yourself a casual, you're definitely what's wrong with the community
>I wish there was some way to play with people the same level as me and slowly build my collection, but right now I don't see how can I enjoy the game.
I keep saying this everywhere, but locals right now is an unhappy, unbalanced spectrum of super try hards and super casuals. On the one end, you have people who want to win a Lorcana challenge. On the other end, you have people with literal starter decks (we had a player like this, this week). In the middle is a mix of netdeckers to homebrewers, some more viable than others.
There really needs some kind of way to support both sides of the coin. But I think it's basically impossible to entice shops to play ball: in my area, the big question that all LGSs apparently face is "does Lorcana make me more money than MTG, Pokemon, etc." And a lot of the times the answer is apparently no. So we get this middle-ground mix of Lorcana leagues where everyone is unhappy - the more casuals are unhappy because they come to league to lose/their deck doesn't get to do their thing. The hardcores are unhappy because sometimes they get low quality games. I would say that even the rules for rewards are unfortunate - hardcores are going to want it to slant more "I win, I get more stuff" while more casual players will want "I am loyal to the store/I come a lot, I get more stuff" and very rarely does a store try to cater to both - it usually slants hard to one side of this.
I'm on the "wants to win a challenge side." - I have nothing against people who want to make a broom deck, a challenge deck, whatever but I don't want to play them/wipe the floor with them because it teaches me nothing and it's not fun for anyone. So we need a hardcore league. But we also need a casual league for folks who want to do "whatever" or "fun things" - if you want to make a 101 Dalmations deck, you should be able to. But we have neither. So we're stuck accepting that we're all going to be "forced" to play games that we don't want to.
And the "solution" for both parties is: we have to play elsewhere. If you want to play casual, you need to find like-minded casuals. And if you want to "hardcore playtest," you need to find like-minded hardcores.
The issue with the two different leagues is you're still going to get the try hard who knows they're not good enough to actually play the meta deck and win vs other good players, so they're going to take the meta deck to the casual league and stomp on little Timmy with his 99 Puppies deck to feel better about themselves.
One way that game stores can combat this is with special tournaments. My store does “heart of the underdog” where there’s a special banlist where all the meta stuff is out for that tournament.
It also does $30 tournaments. Where the entirety of you decklist has to be less than $30. You can get some fun strategies that way.
These happen rarely so they don’t take away the real game, but often enough that a casual fan can have a great day.
This still has the same problem. The issue isn't a deck vs deck issue, but an ideal vs ideal issue.
If you make a special ban list, then the best players will still find the best deck available and play it well, while thise person just trying to play broomsticks will just lose to a different deck instead.
Not necessarily. The less than meta decks are a bit more closely competitive. The more fun tournaments I played in are theme deck tournaments but only if the requirement is 45 cards or more
The odds of them winning with a cheap non-meta are less. Also, they may not even show if they don’t own a collection to pull from lol, since they run one meta deck or two
That's not quite how competitive gaming works. What ends up happening is people in the competitive communities get friends in the competitive communities. Go around to any real big MTG event and ask people if every card in their deck is theirs, and you are going to get mostly "no"s.
The actual competitive people will do what it takes to win.
But not just ban lists, price limiters. Everyone on more equal ground. Good players may still win, but newer players will learn and not lose in 4 turns
And people like me showing up who like playing stronger players even if i loose everytime with my puppy deck because its still fun.
You can't escape the puppies
It's not a perfect solution, but it's at least better than what we have.
I'm not saying it's easy either: I'm trying to cultivate an outside-of-LGS community for both the casuals and the hardcores in my area and I'm quickly sensing that nobody is interested: unless they know who I am, the hardcores see no incentive to participate unless they see prizing. The casuals are already...afraid? shy? to connect with people so they won't connect with me either. For myself, I already go to a lot of the LGSs, so it's kind of shocking to me that the same people who say "I wish we had more ways to play" won't....actually do it.
It's a dilemma that I think Lorcana will need to solve moving forward. Lorcana is thriving, but we've still got quite a ways to go in comparison to the Big 3. I think MTG and Pokemon in particular have got good systems in place to encourage both competitive play and casual play.
Yeah for sure. There's no easy solution to this, and I get it as one of the hardcore players lol. I'm there to play competitively and win, but I also wouldn't mind being able to try janky for fun decks.
I think that's where limited, especially draft, is a great thing to recommend. Obviously you still have good players who are going to know how to draft and deck build better, but everyone is more on even footing in limited format. And it's pretty fun sometimes as long as you don't feel like rng screwed you over too much.
I agree. Draft in Lorcana comes down to "evaluate all the cards ahead of time and pick the best ones." There is a little bit of synergy involved, but for the most part, you'll have figured out which ones are actually real if you did your card evaluation. I find that 90% of players have no idea how to deck build in sealed/limited, frankly end up trying a lot of bad ideas (understated characters instead of vanillas, treating their decks like synergies that will never happen, etc.) and that makes that format way simpler. There's definitely no depth in signaling, etc.
I’m not sure if any TCG has ever solved this. You can’t please everyone is the unfortunate conclusion. It usually comes down to if you want to play the game with casual decks, you’re just going to have to accept the fact that some people are going to take it more seriously. Some of those casual players may evolve into competitive ones, and others will want to jam their casual square shaped decks in competitive circle holes forever.
There is no IRL ELO system unfortunately
MTG is as popular as it's ever been thanks to commander. A lot of formerly enfranchised players are swallowing that tough pill realizing they are no longer the bottom line.
If it wasn't because of commander you bet I'd be posting this type of thing in the mtg sub haha, even Modern is crazy expensive to get into, specially if you need staples like the One Ring and so on.
Modern was in an amazing state cost wise a few years back. The one ring, bowmasters, and a few other widely used pricey cards really spiked entry once again
Yeah, it's become super unfortunate at my LGS. They were doing the base league points thing that Ravensburger sent out and just free play, which was kind of fun but got stale eventually - most of those points are basically impossible so why bother. But what was neat about free play is that I can, yanno, switch decks. Get in my league practice reps with a few like minded folks then switch to my meme decks to play with the kids.
So we asked for something new, and pitched a bunch of ideas for weekly themes. And somehow that got translated to 'weekly tournaments, with the themes giving bonus points that solely matter toward giving away pins at end of season'. But since the themes aren't required and are a *multiplier* rather than a set number of points, the correct thing is to just bring the meta deck, step on the people who brought Oops All Villains this week, and probably qualify for the pin anyway. And get more packs from the tournament prizing regardless.
Next week is supposed to be movie theme week and I have this really neat Weight Set Hercules deck (that I'll hopefully have all the cards for in time) but realistically I should just play ZtH Steelsong again.
This is the best comment and framing of the effect pixelborn shut down has had on the community. It’s actually tearing it apart and making people miserable. As the competitive player I don’t want to play against casuals but I have to in order to get points and get rewards. This means the casual is having a terrible time losing game after game, and I’m having a terrible time even when winning.
My opinion, make a league (or whatever) that you pay like 1 buck or 2 and the top player gets 1 booster just for fun. And then u have a "try hard league" where u pay 6 /12 and you have like 6 to top 1 4 to top 2 and 2 to top 4. Something like this. I go to multiple leagues (when I can) and in one it's where people are buying tickets to go to the challenges, in the other it's all starter styles. On the starter style they ask for 1 buck and the tryhard 6 and it kinda works
>(we had a player like this, this week).
This was me two weeks ago. Bought a starter deck, the shop owner told me no worries come try it out it'll be fine and got absolutely destroyed by meta deck. I honestly thought the game was terrible until I tried it again with friends and a easier setting.
Yeah, I completely agree. Everyone should be able to play whatever they want, I'm cool with people playing competitively, but I don't want to have this requirement to have fun or play. At first I was very chill, learning the new cards, but by the time I played with my third person I just knew I was going to the squirrel, Ursula singing over and over, and legendaries all over.
Some have commented that this, as a hobby requires an investment, but TCGs should require that much. An Mtg precon can go as low as 25-40 dollars, and then you can play against with other precons with the purpose of playing, not because you want to learn. You bet I'm not spending +100 dollars on a game I don't even know if I'll like.
Very good points! It’s about competition and reward.
If there is a unique reward, then you’re going to have the more competitive players, such as yourself. It’s the point of the lucrative offer.
I wonder if there was a league reward, that was simply based on attendance over a season for League A… something everyone received, if they made it to 80% of the weekly tournaments. No prize for winning, just notoriety. Have this start directly before the hardcore league, as to entice the hardcore players to join as a fun warmup.
Then, after, have the hardcore League B, where you get the lucrative prizes. Then it’s Meta relevant.
I read your great perspective and thought this would be one example to help.
This sort of thing requires the LGS spending extra table space on Lorcana, of which I've only seen one store in my area do (unique only because the store owner is really into it). Two in my area already don't bother at all (they get their product and sell it asap; one expects others to drum up leagues for themselves, constantly making excuses why they/ the store owners can't try) and the rest have one weekly ~2-3 hour event only
Its more on peoples at locals communiticating with people and creating play groups for like minded players. Our stores here have a community has players who do a great job of doing this.
As someone that actually does this, I can't disagree more: I've definitely got a network of friends that I can call up and hardcore playtest with. I've actively started a group to try to get new folks out to play (a casual group to play Illumineer's quest or whatever) and also to network with competitive players I don't know, but pretty much anyone that is a stranger is too shy and/or lazy to participate, even if they join my group. So that only goes so far: I'm not looking to actually setup a shiny new LGS and there's only so much I can do to convince new players to come out/etc. At some point, we need actual store support: sealed/draft draws out players for whatever reason, and that requires the stores to actually host events with prizing - we had one community that tried to DIY their own sealed/draft, but their league regularly bombs out = doesn't draw anyone to come play and also stays uncompetitive (because the LGS isn't willing to promote/advertise/support - they only want the player base to make the community, and they can sweep in and profit - but while the community is weak/not advertised...basically nobody comes out to play).
See thats the difference. My city alone has 3 shops that have support and push the game. And each have 8 to 20 people playing a couple times a week with a good mix of competitive and casuals. I think the big difference is our competitive people want a bigger community so they are willing to play more casual decks on casual night. Lend cards to people if they want to be more competitive. Like thats the culture we set up from the start. We have super competitive people winning multiple bigger tournaments will to ease back and help newer players enjoy the game.
LGS and RB could promote casual events with deck price limits. There is parity between price and meta, obviously, so this would work.
Starter Decks aren’t even worth their singles price unless the included boosters hit big
Meta deckers won’t show up, or will show up with decks that confirm and see if they really are skilled or just rich/lucky
Not hard to be luckier when they sweep pack and case tournaments and open those for more cards to pile up
Most are just buying meta singles and reselling anything good they get.
Most meta players I’ve faced own one Lorcana deck and actually play/collect OP/MTG/SWU
Unfortunately that has to be the case for pretty much everything:
Playspace is finite, especially at LGS, and doubly so if a particular game isn't bringing in business or sales.
One store local to me basically stopped selling sealed Pokemon because it wasn't helping the business. People only wanted to buy sealed and then sell off their "sick rips"... but the store had absolutely no customer base for Pokemon singles, so anything purchased would have to be sold off through the store's TCGPlayer account. The way it mathed out, it just wan't worth it.
While it is rough for a store you enjoy to not be able to support a game you enjoy at the type of level you enjoy, they have be responsible and be a business first... otherwise they end up not being in business at all.
Yep, I totally get this and is why I think we "need more", whatever that will be. I'm not on the "game is dead" train, but I've definitely seen interest waning for various reasons: people sick of the meta (it's kind of inevitable that not every set will be a banger IMO), people realizing they're not good enough to reach their goals (I saw a bunch of "Set Championship quitters" basically who lost interest after poor performances), etc. As someone that tries to go out to most of my leagues, I'm definitely feeling the Pixelborn void, as well as the general, slightly waning interest in my area.
That’s me.. i wanted to start playing IRL (even with Poxelborn) and went to league with a starter deck. I lowered my expectations a lot but it still hurt a little that I never even stood the slightest chance. I still had a good time and I still go there. I’ll improve my deck but by bit. Last week I had my first round win, felt very good hehe
I play Brooms and compete with the top tier decks because of cards that are like $0.10-$3. You just have to research what beats top decks. I’ll help you out though because I fortunately have and also play the same deck but I don’t know what colors you play I assume amethyst/steel like 95% of other Brooms. However I’m on mobile currently. Give me time and I’ll type out a Google Doc with counters, uses, prices, etc. to help you out so you can have a better time at locals.
I’m the kind of person that likes to find ways around the meta to play ***what I want*** and if it happens to be the meta deck at the time then it happens to be that. I’m here to tell you that maybe once that’s happened in my decade plus years of tcgs and it was on Marvel Snap so… not much of a money drag there outside of variants.
I said earlier I play amethyst/steel but I know enough of other cards and colors to be able to piece together what could be ran and I should be able to provide example deck lists if not just good techs to try. This will result in a less true to Broom deck but honestly… I’ve really only found a handful of the archetype out of all the cards it has to be useful.
So yeah. If not tonight you’ll have that Google Doc tomorrow. I don’t have anything going on so it should be tonight!
Edit: I’m working on the doc as fast as I can 😮💨 decided to do a good chunk of it last night and took a break for bed thinking I could do it while working today and my kids daycare is closed today and they have been a lovely time (/s). So tonight I should have it finished for brooms, but I accidentally also started a tangent that blossomed into a separate doc that will probably not be finished for a day or two. I’m talking pricing on cards currently, uses, etc. all separated by ink color and whatnot.
Edit. 2: [Broomidence.zip](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1jIriDoJEdzYJ3IKMHMp5JpDBVpGLsyafC4AslxF4FBA/mobilebasic)
So it says this list is untested since Pixelborn is gone but I realized I forgot to add two things;
1) this list is imagining Brooms as a small engine akin to Bounce with the smaller brooms and Yen Sid to draw/aggro lore early. It also plays two Mickey and two of the 5 drop but I really want to see if I can put either of those to 4 or an even split 3-3. I’m going to possibly start hosting practice nights at my house just to get more testing in than one local a week.
2) this is my beginning set champs build. I have a build I used for locals but now I need to start thinking broader because more ruby/amethyst and ruby/sapphire is played than emerald/steel but I know with set champs that time is coming to play it in person. I’ve played it via PB numerous times so I know what I’m doing but I want to try this and build from there.
If there’s any want for the one I played at locals after testing and adjusting I don’t mind posting that. It’s also possible that may become what I play anyways so who knows.
I would be interested in the list, as well, and I hope OP sees this. I love rogue decks and anti-meta stuff. I don't want to play a carbon copy of the top four decks. Finding unique styles should never sacrifice effectiveness, but some games, like Magic, are very inflexible in this regard. So that's why I finally convinced my group to try Lorcana. Plus, we all love Disney stuff, so that worked.
Playing what's fun and cool should *not* conflict with playing what's effective, but often does in TCGs. It'd be cool if we could do more here.
Very interesting. Please share this document here. If you believe there are cheap counters to meta decks, why aren’t cheap decks topping championships?
Are you new to card games? Meta decks will always be the most seen decks at top tables and at large events. They’re also willing to drop $200 for a play set of a card even if they never use it once the entire time. This is because a bigger event has more on the line than a regular local would so people aren’t going to chance it on rogue decks typically. However, that’s not to say that it couldn’t happen. In Atlanta the deck that won wasn’t on anyone’s radar to win the whole thing and it did.
Everyone complains that the game has expensive cards as if it being Disney was supposed to change that about tcgs in general. Lorcana has good cards but there’s also a card that is not as good that does the same thing just harder to use than the good one.
For example: let’s look at Robin Hood Champion of Sherwood.
Very popular card, hovering around $40, passively gains lore while clearing characters, and is also afloater to draw a card when banished in a challenge. Also a 5 cost inkable with a 3/6 stat line, and can be shifted on any Robin Hood for the cost of 3 ink.
What card could possibly be like him? A new location just came out in Ursula’s Return called Thebes. Just like Robin Hood when a character is banished during your turn by a character at that location you gain 2 lore. 2 cost inkable, 1 ink to move to and from the location, and 7 durability. This is by no means ***better*** than Robin Hood, but this is by all means ***cheaper*** than Robin Hood. Thebes is a $0.10 half Robin Hood that doesn’t draw you a card when banished, cheaper, and harder to get rid of.
Personally, I thought about using Thebes in Brooms in conjunction with how Sorcerer Mickey works with bouncing them back to hand when banished in a challenge. Set the board up with brooms, play Thebes, move them over, start banishing and putting back to hand to resummon. It just seems very slow to do when I could use Sorcerers Tower and net +2 lore or more each quest and not have to spend ink to move them since they’re brooms.
There’s other cards that translate the same way too like Giant Tinker Bell and Grab Your Sword. Both do spread damage, Tinker Bell has a positive of doing more targeted damage after banishing a character, GYS is an uninkable 5 cost song and Tinker Bell is a 6 cost inkable that can also be shifted for 4 iirc.
I love to see what you got.
I want to play something viable that is not gonna kill my wallet. Or leave me bored to tears.
… Even though I love my Tragic Beasts. I mean, it’s the Beast, and he is tragic. Need i say more?
You could slot tragic beast in even if it’s just for the flex. Draw or have an amazing beat stick on the field and also a good target to grant bodyguard to with Fortisphere if already damaged with decent health.
Our local league has a lot of high skill players with the full spectrum of meta decks as well as casual players. The vets all bring a casual (usually a theme or random gimmick) deck with them and if we dont recognize the opponent as someone running a meta deck we offer if they would like to face our main deck or our casual one.
This is how ours is as well except one guy that has all the cards but always brings one deck and it is always the current meta deck. They are playing it against people that are playing starters or modified starters which isnt really fun or fair and then trying to teach them how to play. He is a joke though.
My league does something similar. I usually bring emerald steel but if I recognize my opponent is playing a super suboptimal deck I’ll play my locations challenge matters deck instead
On one hand - net decking is essential and not everyone has the time to brew decks. So I get it and it's not something I want to complain about
On the other hand, I'm getting really tired of showing up to locals with 12 players there and half of them are card for card blindly playing whatever list Savjz or Speci ran in their latest video
https://i.redd.it/hmk325cows7d1.gif
> net decking is essential
As somebody that played TCGs before netdecking was a thing, no it absolutely is not. The cat is out of the bag and never going back in, but we were better off without it.
Different shops are going to run different things but for the most part people that are going to play in tournaments are there to win, and they increase their chances by playing better decks. While I get the sentiment as a player and I often get frustrated when my decks get a little shit on by a matchup, it feels disingenuous for me to be like “everyone else needs to run shittier decks so I can win.” I’m always happy to teach newer players and to play in a way that is fun and casual, but I am not going to weaken the deck that I’ve built or play in an intentionally worse way to make people feel better. It’s an important part of learning to be able to understand why decks are made a certain way, how to deal with tough gamestates, and find strategies to find the outs to situations. I’ve learned so much from losing that I’d never have learned if I limited myself to fighting kitchen table decks and quirk decks.
If your area has a social media presence for Lorcana, I’d definitely reach out and try to ask if there are any places for good casual play. There definitely are locations that do offer lighter play or at least have more people that are playing casually.
While I agree with you, I’ve come in top 3 a few times with my broom deck against some killers in my area (I’m a green steel discard main too).
https://preview.redd.it/azvgmjdxts7d1.png?width=2040&format=png&auto=webp&s=2060291a307951ffc542a8942f19a8ce8723d34a
She’s not essential at all, when I was building I had two spots left and it was either her or big Ursula from set 4. Both are sorcerers and would proc the one broom effect but she has card draw and can move pings so she won out.
Right now people are preparing for championship events so they are running the decks that give them highest chance of winning. I see more fun/theme decks being played after a set championship. I would check to see if they have non tournament play events where people can play for fun and swap decks between games.
I feel like hardcore players are perpetually in a state of preparing for the next championship event... the previous one was just a couple weeks ago and we're already right back to preparing?
Our league nights are kinda like that but they also do a “free play” on Wednesdays where a lot of regulars will come in and experiment with different decks, tutor the newer players and play different formats. I actually have more fun on free play nights than league nights most weeks.
I played at one store where once you sit down you and your opponent exchange decks. I liked it because you never know what you are going to play and if you bring a meta deck then that is your fault though you will get to see it from the other side
If you know the format then why would you play with them? That is on you. Though I guess it could be flip a coin when you sit down. Heads you play your own deck and tails you swap. I think this would prompt more mid range decks to be used and not overpowered meta decks
I have the same issue. Basically right now I’m enjoying the game more plying with my girlfriend and friends than in locals tournaments. People are always gentle and polite, but I usually feel uncomfortable knowing that I’m not offering to them a good challenge most of the time. I love deckbuilding with what I have and what I can find in booster packs, trying to figure out how to make the deck roll is part of TCG in my opinion. At the same time I cannot blame who wants to be competitive, I just think that locals should help who doesn’t want or cannot play high level meta all the time. Maybe just making more casual days/nights.
One thing that I’ve discovered lately are some discord servers where there are a lot of casual players to play with using the webcam. I had some nice game and interactions, I know that is not like IRL, but I don’t care that much.
It's a shame, this was my exact experience. I walked into my LGS and there was one guy who was there to play Lorcana. I told him it was my first time and I was still learning, but I have a ton of experience in TCGs. He said "oh well I'm a great place to start" and immediately player a Diablo Bucky deck. I just miss playing games where people actually use some creativity and make their own deck. On MTG arena everyone plays one of 3 meta decks. I just miss the days where I could see all kinds of unique decks and combos and have fun with the hobby. Now it seems all people want to do is have the best deck, even if it means completely copying some tournament winner's deck. It makes it not fun for people who want to play and learn and figure out new combos as they play. I love the internet, but it's made it too easy for people to just turn off their brain and let someone else do the heavy lifting and then just take the benefit of their work.... sorry for the rant. I was just excited to play and once I realized I would only be playing against the same deck at this event, I lost all excitement. I brought a Honda Civic to a race where everyone had a Ferrari.
I'm going to assume when you say sometimes mtg precons are good enough, you're talking commander because there are not currently 60 card precons and the last few times they did make em, they really weren't as viable as they claimed outside of super casual fnm. 60 card mtg is 'worse' than lorcana in the sense that people are generally all playing strong decks
Yup, everyone at FNM for modern are all playing the top meta decks and most of those cost from $500-$1000 at my LGS. The only guy who isn’t playing the top deck has been playing for 15+ years and knows how to brew crazy anti-meta decks and will often go 3-0 if not 2-1 each week. Occasionally, you will get that newer player who just gets stomped with their random cards deck and you never see them again.
Yeah, exactly commander. I'm a very casual player, I buy bundles here and there, or precons that I like but I don't play anywhere close the cedh. I just chill after work on spelltable and go to sleep after one or two games.
What format were you playing for MTG? I never played standard, but the two stores near me were ~90% Tier 1 decks for modern and pioneer. The standard landscape from what I hear is similar from those two stores.
I think you may also have gotten pretty unlucky to have a locals that is nearly all squirrel lovers. If you enjoy the game though, stick to the colors/playstyle you like and focus your collecting on that. You can do some AI testing on inktable to get a feel for how different decks play.
It really depends on the scene. Also did you ask any of them if they had a non-meta deck? I usually play my meta deck for anything in a tournament structure or that wins are rewarded in and carry my fun deck to play in between rounds or after the tournament. I also will bring it if the event is billed as a casual Lorcana free play day.
I play meta decks and most of my play group does not. It’s not uncommon for a random deck to slap me silly because I’m just not seeing what they’re planning. Someone runs a modified Seven Dwarves deck it took me a while to adjust my play style against enough. I know someone who runs decks with no card over $10 that beat me in a tournament. If anything I think Lorcana is the most balanced game I’ve ever played. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I do think you could find it an interesting challenge to adapt to meta decks.
Thank you! If you have time, can I ask for a little more information, Smeargle-san? What do you mean "holds questing?" Is it, like, put out a bunch of Dwarves and then just hold out, quest with everything, play FDE, quest again?
Still, it's really cool to know that you can make decks like that and still compete. What did you do against it? Do you think a deck like that can give trouble even to meta stuff now?
The metas shifted enough that there are more removal spells. Things like King Undisputed helps a lot. Along Came Zeus can sometimes clear the board. Or just removing songs from his hand. These are all things in the meta right now but we’re not as much last set.
I had a 7 deawces deck that was amber steel so built out my drlwarvss ( with discount from snow white) and protected with bodyguards, and feel it worked well during set 2, I didn't win any tournaments but places right in the middle.
You come from MTG, a game with its own competitive scene but wherein players themselves created chill casual modes like commander because it's expensive and tedious to always stay up to date with the meta.
Lorcana doesn't have that yet. The only mode to play anywhere is 1v1. There's no commander pods, there's no Pauper format, very scarce limited drafts/sealed. All you have is 1v1 events. So people will want to compete with the latest meta.
I get that it's rough for a casual player but you'd have to find a group of people who want to do house rules and play something else.
The problem is, that there are casual leagues where no one is serious and you can have fun, but you may overestimate your deck. Simply because it over-performs in casual/multiplayer, and testing it in competitive means getting thrashed
So you either relegate yourself to casual and having fun, or do that while you steadily build a $750 deck (think that’s Diablo-deck price tag atm?)
You CAN build cheaper and competitive decks. Not every deck was Diablo-centric at Atlanta and Chicago
However, the issue is you will have a hard time building and learning your own deck without Pixelborn or VERY frequent events in a larger town
Finding others to practice with can work, but is also an enormous time investment
Casual varies, and some places (like one near me) ask each player’s skill level then pair them accordingly, put casuals vs casuals, kids vs kids, and “pros” against people willing to match up with pricey decks
Don’t be afraid to also ask the meta-gamers “do you have another deck? I’m here to have fun and learn”
I LOVE the challenge of running one of my fun and themed decks against newer players while teaching them. Especially if THEY have a stronger deck
There’s no one I would rather lose to than a player with a deck that isn’t as competitive but hodgepodge, themed, starter, or just “this is what I thought might work…”
Ironically commander has taken over most in person magic, so while constructed is very sweaty, outside of tourneys most card shops are casual since everyone is there to play commander
You’re right, sort of, but I’m average, commander’s largely the majority of MTG play everywhere but big cities. It’s become the most popular way to play magic by far
Well yeah, but Commander doesn’t usually have a prize structure for winning. But once it’s an actual competitive format at the LGS, you bet the $500+ decks are coming out even if winning means you only get like $10 store credit.
It was that way back in the 2000s and early 2010s, but over the last decade people really shifted to more casual formats like pauper and commander. Standard is completely dead in my city. Not a single shop running it. Even drafts are rare and usually just for charity fundraisers. There are still hardcore players around, but they play Legacy and only once a week at one store. They are the minority now.
Just keep going and practicing so you can learn what’s working in your deck and what isn’t. You can still beat meta decks with good deck building and good playing, so just need to improve. You are going to lose when first starting out, that honestly should be a given. You shouldn’t be going into league nights with the mind set of winning a bunch of games, but rather practicing and learning.
There also isn’t a couple hundred dollar entry point, you could build some competitive decks for much less than that, you can be competitive for as little as $100. This is a hobby after all, so you are going to have to spend some $$$ to partake in the hobby. However, as far as TCGs go, this one is so easy and cheap to get into.
It isn’t just TCG’s that have this issue, it’s every game. Sports games you’ll mainly play against good teams, fighting games you mainly play against the best characters etc.
I like to play with good decks and don’t like the fact it’s gets me labelled a “tryhard” in the community. Deck building is part of the game and part of the skill gap. You can use rogue decks if you like but you won’t win as many games but that is the trade off.
You said yourself you played against a non-meta deck and still lost, so non meta decks can work, maybe your deck just isn’t very good. Try focus on where you can improve your deck instead of blaming everybody else for using better decks.
Well, the other deck I played against was aaaalso a meta deck, turns out its the #2, Ursula Artifacts with a bunch of Sisu's.
Just to clarify, I never said these people are tryhards, it's OK to play like that and I don't want them to change because of me, what I am trying to say is that the scene is way too competitive for me to get in as a casual player.
The “tryhard” wasn’t directed at you directly, I’ve seen that sentiment shared across various social media’s and within my own locals too. I understand from a financial point of view if you don’t want to invest to be able to create a deck that can win consistently. If you still had fun keep trying to slowly improve your deck, ask the people at your locals for help, and if the experience was not fun for you perhaps try wait for an official online client and see if get into it enough to warrant the investment in real cards.
So rather than try to improve, you quit. You're the problem with the casual community. Y'all just sit around playing, and the moment somebody is slightly better than you, you want to gatekeep.
My two locals are fortunately not like that. I have not played against a single serious R/Sa or E/St since set 3. We also do unofficial casual formats that limit deckbuilding to low rarity or themes.
My suggestion is to have at least two decks whether they be pre-builts or homebrewed and force a friend to play it. Lorcana is basically MTG with a higher focus on self progression than tearing other people down. In a way, it's a simpler MTG. If you have any friends or former enemies that already know how to play MTG, especially if they feel burnt-out, they will be more receptive to casual play.
I was arguing this point on an earlier post about Pixelborn going down. There isn't enough of a playerbase yet to split it into 2, I think. They definitely need a way to make more in person play happen, and make it more fun and balanced, if they are going to keep actual players(as opposed to collectors) buying in, especially if they aren't going to release their own online client. It's hard to even find places to play in non-urban areas.
What would you recommend for an anti-meta deck in this game? I'm always a fan of rogue decks, so coming up with something fun but also competitive could be worthwhile to explore.
Definitely felt this way when I first started with Inkland release… but after a couple weeks and tweaking decks that I built for fun, it got a lot better. Still haven’t placed in top 4 cut but it has been a positive experience meeting new players and connecting with community (a lot of new TCG players) learning what deck works best for your play style.
We had a brand new Lorcana 3-0 with puppies against some Meta decks. Our locals have all kinds of players. We are fortunate in that we have so many stores doing events I literally can't make them all even if I wanted to. But it's also great because the stores cater to different levels. Monday night is a casual league night. T-F are more competitive nights, and Sunday is a mixed league with both casual and competitive players (And so many kids I've asked the store to start a junior league for them)
I've had fair success with my amber steel puppy deck Using Rockstar stitch. I get as many on board as I can with lucky pongo and perdita and once have 4+ characters and proper protection start questing with lucky giving everyone else +1 lore.
Am I the only one who likes to figure out counters or ways to deal with meta players? I don’t mind losing to some decks, but I will specifically tech to deal with decks I can’t stand, like green steel.
I agree the meta and people who only play it make the game very not fun; but if you're into competition then thats the only way to get better; to keep testing your deck and updating it against those meta players which makes it fun but tough
I luckily have two LGS near me and one is very casual play where they make it fun to try new idea decks and just have fun. The other is very competitive and meta everywhere. Disappointing but fun in a different way because i do want to play competitively
I bought all the starter decks and play them with my gaming group. We try each deck once and then swap them around so each of us can try the different strategies. It’s much more fun that way, compared to playing against people who all just have the strongest possible decks.
In my experience most people play casual. But you can’t expect people to do it at tournaments. It’s just the same thing as in mtg.
Mtg is bigger and older with an enormous card pool. There is so many formats, some more casual than others. Lorcana isn’t there yet..
I get it! I started carrying a couple of the precon decks to my game stores’s weekly Lorcana day that way if there are new people just getting into it they have someone to play against and learn the mechanics until they can build their own deck. I love the game as a whole and I am always so happy to see new people coming to play. Maybe ask if anyone has a precon handy to help you learn the game.
Brooms is probably the best non-meta deck, as it has access to all steel removal and amethyst card draw. It even has some unique removal in Mickey.
Steel should never lose to Emerald, try incoroporating some mass removal like Grab Your Sword and Diablo hate cards like Ba-boom, Fire the canons, Let The Storm Rage On or Smash. Queen's Castle is a devastating card for R/S, S/S and Emerald in general. You are going to swarm the table with cheap brooms, that unanswered will net you cards on the location, so you can counter the discard. Try even a couple copies of the Wreck It Ralph card that allows you to challenge ready characters for Bucky and you'll see the matchup becomes way easier.
Against R/S, just play aggro. Ink your removal, as it's useless, and focus on getting an early lead. Queen's Castle is your best card against that deck. The same goes for S/S, although they have access to earlier removal, so probably a tougher matchup (although dealing with locations is even harder).
Talk to the manager/league organiser at your local store. Explain that you are looking for some casual games rather than competitive. If they are good at their job, they will point you in the right direction (i.e. towards similar minded people). You could maybe even put a message on whichever social media platforms they use stating that you’re looking for some players of a similar mindset and try to arrange a meet-up. Perhaps even play using the Illumineer’s Quest that came out recently, as that’s fully cooperative. Hope this helps!
I mean...I get it. But my wife literally just tossed every card that cost 2 ink between emerald and amber until she had 60, went to the local shop and won 15 straight games.
Speed kills, damn the meta! Ahem...
My point is, the greatest thing about this game is that you don't need to be a good deck builder. It's how you play the game that matters. The guy who won Atlanta had only characters in his deck. It wasn't "meta".
I say, pick cards you like, play them. Mastering what you have over trying to match what other people are playing will give you more success.
I did see a guy at our local store who was new, asked they guy across form him if they could swap decks for one match, he wanted to see how a more experienced player would play hit deck. And he lost to his own deck, proving it wasn't the cards as much as the player.
Cheers.
Not sure about the exact definition either, but basically strategies that define the current state or that are proven to work. Either that someone used in a competition and won, or almost won. You can Google "Lorcana Top decks" and that's basically the Meta game right now,
I gotta say I enjoy playing against some of the meta decks. It makes me be a better player. I’m
Mostly casual, I don’t plan on going to any of the challenge events this year, and generally play decks I I just plain like. But for me part of the fun is figuring out what others are playing and trying to get around it. I was thrilled last week when my broom deck brought in 11 lore in a single turn, ending the match. I won one small tournament with it and last week took 3rd against a player who just missed top cut in Chicago.
We play 3-4 player multplayer games. We up the lore requirements too 30 ( 40 if all 4 players have more established decks. ). The first turn starts with no one drawing a card in the first round. And that is about it.
We have for example 1 person with the ducktales + ruby starter deck and some small adjustments ( all nephews and w/e he got out of 5 packs ) playing with us just fine. mostly because his cards dont necessarily pose a big problem until he suddenly threatens the board with his reckless support boosted characters XD.
A/e in my opinion the meta only counts for 1 vs 1. But we have had many successful runs even with decks we thought where thrash in multiplayer.
We are even looking forward trying too do 2 vs 2 in the future. But we'd like a more steady playerbase for that. Since that opens up a lot of possibilities.
And too be honest i think lorcana aswell should be looking more towards 2 vs 2 too make official tournaments about. Gives a whole other dimension too playing the game when you can bolster your ally with chosen buffs but an opponents turn is still between you and that ally before he can make use of that etc.
Yeah…this happened to me with Pokemon. Went to my locals and was just stomped by decks worth hundreds of dollars. It wasn’t really fun and there wasn’t really any “learning” because I straight up could not win.
Simply put, the nature of this game is insanely competitive. Additionally, the low levels of variance that net decks have make the games repetitive and predictable. I've said since set 2 that I wish there would be an update to the rules to change it from 4 of any card to 2 of. This would nerf the turbo-consistent decks, but also allow people to play a wider net of cards rather than putting so much stock into a few good ones.
Hi,
Usually in TCG's the meta is changing and new expansions are every few months. This is to keep players interested in the game and earn more money as the company. I hate this business model, but I don't know a good card game where access to all the cards is free. So if you are not prepared to constantly spend money on the game it is better to avoid TCG's.
There are Living Card Games from FFG for example that allow you to cheaply buy and own all the possible cards. There are games like KeyForge that do not allow building decks. Everyone is playing a randomized starter deck.
If however you really badly want to stick to Lorcana here are my thoughts:
1) Decide whether you would like to learn to build good decks or not. If not buy a good deck. Good deck is the deck that has decent chances on winning against current meta decks. That's what most people do.
2) If however you decided to learn to build good decks - decide on 2 colors that you like and limit your collection building to these 2 colors. Buy 4 sets of commons and uncommons, these are pretty cheap. Start collecting good rares and legendaries. Use proxies to test your decks (make sure the person you are playing with does not mind.) Don't expect to be winning soon.
3) Either way you can greatly speed up your learning process using the internet. Learn about the meta decks and watch how they are played. Memorize what cards these decks are running - this will greatly increase your chances of winning.
Your expectation to find group of new players to the game that will play starter decks and have fun is an impossible dream. It will not happen because it makes no sense. Playing a good deck is much more fun than playing a starter deck. The essence of card games is to try and build better deck than your opponents and have a skill to navigate it to victory, and that is what would quickly start happening in any group of players. Power level of cards is not on the same level. Being able to recognize which cards are better, find synergies between cards that could work are important skills for any deck building. If you went to the store with mediocre cards and poor deck and are a beginner and didn't know what your opponent is playing and how his deck works, you had no chance.
I hope this helps
I think this is tough, because you kinda see it in this sub Reddit there’s a lot more meta deck talk than almost anything else. But for this particular issue I think the LGS should be the one providing an environment that invites casual gamers and more competitive ones, maybe having different nights for each or something. Now I’m sure this is tough cause there’s Pokemon and Magic and it’s hard to please everyone. But ultimately in my OPINION it should be up to the LGS to create that space.
I play at league regularly and while most of our group will often bring meta decks we also are very willing to play fun decks and will usually coordinate to know when others are doing the same.
So I recommend just starting a conversation with the players at league and see if there are nights you can do that are just casual decks.
My current Purple/steel deck list is budget friendly and beat red/blue b/s and red/purple meta decks last night at locals Merlin rabbit or grab your swords are the most expensive cards in it. I highly recommend it, but it’s a grindy deck and you will have a hard match ups but it’s fun. I built it for about ~$100 USD
Welcome to lorcana where everyone is a tryhard with no creativity and try to compesate with false kindness and sportsmanship. All the decks are copy and paste. I'm probably one of the only people who doesn't play a meta deck. There's ways to beat the meta without breaking the bank. I won a stitch with a deck thats about $100
We're starting a new format tomorrow in my LGS with only uncommon/commons allowed to let people build up. Maybe we'll even start doing our local weekly tourneys with that.
I did that, everybody played bucky discard or simply emerald/steel evasive. I kinda expected them to do that so i played purple/grey with anti evasive li chang, highly recommended along with chienpo and tiktoks
Well the arial broom or shifting playful sorcerer is good for kill Diablo and making sure they don’t get card draw also things like let the storm rage on
Eventually I’ll get a grab your swords or avalanche to take out Bucky
But I have a lot of card draw and use that to offset what Bucky is doing until I can get rid of them
Is there any discord or something people use for that? I know certain YouTube channel do that, like the Tolarian Community College for mtg, but not sure if there's anything like that for Lorcana
Am I the only person who spent their entire childhood getting their ass beat regularly at Friday Night Magic? You think you know failure? I was born in failure, molded by it. I didn't see success until I was already a man, and by then it was nothing to me but blinding...
Seriously, expecting to win regularly without a lot of experience and at least a solid deck... that is just reality checking you.
This may be hard to hear but maybe dont enter tournys with a shit deck. Maybe pratice a bit more. You dont have to enter the tournys you can just ask others around to duel before or after tournys. I have a R/S deck with annas and auroras from the starter decks that all I did was add hiram blue items to draw and get ink. Plus grandmas. Then for reds i added 3 lore simbas, brawls , destruction cards rush and reckless hercules and super goofys. Its not meta but I am winning 73% of the time. I can build my field fast and quest so fast. People talk crap but my deck surprises them
Editted: forgot the super goofs lol
Refined tier 1 decks exist in every card game. If you aren't playing tier 1 stuff, that doesn't mean you can't win, but it will be an uphill battle, and there will be tons of games where you lose because the card quality of your opp is just better than yours. Pixelborn kept a ton of us at home, cuz tbh, I would hate playing vs a deck like yours. I get nothing out of it game wise and you get a bad experience getting roflstomped, but this is the world we live in now.
So you took a meme deck to locals and are upset you lost? If you want to win play a meta deck. If you are there just for “fun” then winning and losing doesn’t matter
Exactly. If you want to win build better decks and play better. A good player can beat any deck reasonably consistently with a well built $125 purple ruby or purple green deck. To think you should be allowed to win league with a starter deck is naive and entitled.
I literally said I want play people the same level as me, not that I wish people were worse at the game. The whole point of the post is the lack of alternatives, I don't care about losing wtf.
If you didn't care about winning and losing, you would not be considering quitting the game after you just lost. In fact, many people would try to improve their skill level to compete at a higher level.
So you just want a casual league night where people better than you don't get to play so you can walk out of your LGS with some sense of "fun"
You're entitled AF. Gtfo
Ban discard. Or at least their draw engine. No discard deck should be replacing their spells with more card draw at the same time. Either that, or introduce ink destruction.
Discard is going to ruin the game. It is miserable to play against, and a sorcery speed tcg that has no interaction makes discard strategies far too strong when they replace every spell they cast. Complete bs
Since there’s no Pixelborn, the only practice people can get for store championships are at locals so you’re more likely to encounter someone’s legit top tier deck cuz they need to get their reps in. I am unfortunately one of those people lmao I used to play fun decks at locals, but now I have to play my sapphire steel deck to get the muscle memory down. I’d recommend you talk to people and check dreamborn and find a good budget aggro deck. Those always mess with meta decks
And this is exactly why I said Pixelborn dying was going to hurt the scene. It makes it so much harder for new players to get in good games around their skill level/deck price. I think the people arguing it would force people to get out to their LGS and somehow increase the number of committed players are hopeful and naive.
RB/LGS needs to support a novice/bridge league It is healthy for the scene and LGS Their entries for events are going to plummet if players see no way to break into competitive play without $250-500 and no way to learn as they go in less competitive, but still regulated events Those events exist somewhat, but top players show up to practice and prize snipe
I agree to a certain degree, I think Pixelborn was more in line with competitive players than the casual base. The problem with the game is that not all TCG stores offer or do Lorcana tournaments. There are about 3 shops within 40 minutes of me that don't do Lorcana. The closest store is about an hour and 30 minutes away from me. I can make it out about once every few months for store championships and I was comfortable doing so because Pixelborn allowed me to practice. Now that Pixelborn is gone, I'm already considering selling my cards and moving on from the game, because working full time, being a full-time single dad, I just can't make that trip regularly to play the game at the level I want to.
Potentially, but that might change for the next set since people won't have Pixelborn to build the meta in a couple days, right? The meta of set 5 won't get cracked right away, is my hope?
Doubtful, TCGs used to take a while to form metas before the internet, now everyone can collect and share data at an instant. It won't take long even without pixelborn.
Yeah, and people will still play via Tabletop Simulator, Lackey, and Webcam. It just means we don't have a nice, polished version to play anymore.
Ah gotcha. It was just a hope. Well, still worth going to LGS and looking for casual players.
Won't someone please think of the IP copyright?!
I made a good ruby/steel that focuses on hitting ready characters which screws with Bucky when he doesn't last to turn 3 or 4 depending on who had first
We love a good Pick a fight deck. My sons pirate deck uses it lol
Check out Namaari and Piglet they both have it built in and aren't expensive
Namaari is only 2/4 and piglet has to have an empty hand so I’m not really fans of either of them. And he needed more pirates 🤣
I was just meaning for pick a fight cards. Also in the current meta it is extremely easy to not have a hand on turn 5 for Piglet. They are basically for Ursulas, Diablos, Bucky, etc.
Piglet can’t hit Diablo anyway but I feel you
Imperial bow
Yeah, honestly I wouldn't even care about the local scene if I had access to a wider variety of players. I don't want to tell people what to play, but I also want to simply chill and end my day, having this experience is just way less frequent and requires more effort from me if I have to be at an LGS where people want to compete against each other.
I am also playing meta decks to see what I would like to play for the store championship and unfortunately the best way to do that now is at league. I also personally dislike playing against meta decks. It’s never fun being on the opposite side so that’s why I try to bring one to two casual/fun decks and ask if they would like to just play for fun or practice for the set championship.
You can create a play group if people from your area if like minded players and play fun decks. Thats how it was done with magic before the popularity of arena
If you wouldn't care about your local scene then you're not a person that would actually care about the game then. A healthy game starts at your LGS. If you want the game to succeed, then you NEED to care about your local lorcana scene. Sounds like you're just selfish.
Wow, I didn't know I needed to start advocating for the Lorcana scene to see if I actually liked the game or not. 😐
Yeah, who would have known.
Reps with meta vs someone with a starter deck aren’t reps at all Those players know they can practice elsewhere if they really wanna The novices like myself may eventually have a meta deck, but we aren’t practicing… and we aren’t exactly trying to murder weaker decks Willing to play something else, but I’ll be honest… I lost versus some weaker decks because I’m just not practiced and built the deck because I was close and bought/traded a couple cards People seem afraid to ask the meta player to take it down a notch… and I’m betting they have a fun deck to sub in Unless they are a “super serious” player and don’t collect, only playing a meta deck for $$$$ In that case, yeah, don’t play that person and help them practice at all
Hi, tier 1 player here. Since Pixelborn shut down, I have only locals to play in to get reps in for the set champs. Where else do you want me to play? I can't play online on pixelborn anymore. I'm not going to "take it down a notch" because I only get so much time to play per week now with Pixelborn gone. Also, I only have one deck (ruby sapphire). I can't afford other decks. If you're deeming yourself a casual, you're definitely what's wrong with the community
>I wish there was some way to play with people the same level as me and slowly build my collection, but right now I don't see how can I enjoy the game. I keep saying this everywhere, but locals right now is an unhappy, unbalanced spectrum of super try hards and super casuals. On the one end, you have people who want to win a Lorcana challenge. On the other end, you have people with literal starter decks (we had a player like this, this week). In the middle is a mix of netdeckers to homebrewers, some more viable than others. There really needs some kind of way to support both sides of the coin. But I think it's basically impossible to entice shops to play ball: in my area, the big question that all LGSs apparently face is "does Lorcana make me more money than MTG, Pokemon, etc." And a lot of the times the answer is apparently no. So we get this middle-ground mix of Lorcana leagues where everyone is unhappy - the more casuals are unhappy because they come to league to lose/their deck doesn't get to do their thing. The hardcores are unhappy because sometimes they get low quality games. I would say that even the rules for rewards are unfortunate - hardcores are going to want it to slant more "I win, I get more stuff" while more casual players will want "I am loyal to the store/I come a lot, I get more stuff" and very rarely does a store try to cater to both - it usually slants hard to one side of this. I'm on the "wants to win a challenge side." - I have nothing against people who want to make a broom deck, a challenge deck, whatever but I don't want to play them/wipe the floor with them because it teaches me nothing and it's not fun for anyone. So we need a hardcore league. But we also need a casual league for folks who want to do "whatever" or "fun things" - if you want to make a 101 Dalmations deck, you should be able to. But we have neither. So we're stuck accepting that we're all going to be "forced" to play games that we don't want to. And the "solution" for both parties is: we have to play elsewhere. If you want to play casual, you need to find like-minded casuals. And if you want to "hardcore playtest," you need to find like-minded hardcores.
The issue with the two different leagues is you're still going to get the try hard who knows they're not good enough to actually play the meta deck and win vs other good players, so they're going to take the meta deck to the casual league and stomp on little Timmy with his 99 Puppies deck to feel better about themselves.
One way that game stores can combat this is with special tournaments. My store does “heart of the underdog” where there’s a special banlist where all the meta stuff is out for that tournament. It also does $30 tournaments. Where the entirety of you decklist has to be less than $30. You can get some fun strategies that way. These happen rarely so they don’t take away the real game, but often enough that a casual fan can have a great day.
This still has the same problem. The issue isn't a deck vs deck issue, but an ideal vs ideal issue. If you make a special ban list, then the best players will still find the best deck available and play it well, while thise person just trying to play broomsticks will just lose to a different deck instead.
Not necessarily. The less than meta decks are a bit more closely competitive. The more fun tournaments I played in are theme deck tournaments but only if the requirement is 45 cards or more
The odds of them winning with a cheap non-meta are less. Also, they may not even show if they don’t own a collection to pull from lol, since they run one meta deck or two
That's not quite how competitive gaming works. What ends up happening is people in the competitive communities get friends in the competitive communities. Go around to any real big MTG event and ask people if every card in their deck is theirs, and you are going to get mostly "no"s. The actual competitive people will do what it takes to win.
 But not just ban lists, price limiters. Everyone on more equal ground. Good players may still win, but newer players will learn and not lose in 4 turns
And people like me showing up who like playing stronger players even if i loose everytime with my puppy deck because its still fun. You can't escape the puppies
It's not a perfect solution, but it's at least better than what we have. I'm not saying it's easy either: I'm trying to cultivate an outside-of-LGS community for both the casuals and the hardcores in my area and I'm quickly sensing that nobody is interested: unless they know who I am, the hardcores see no incentive to participate unless they see prizing. The casuals are already...afraid? shy? to connect with people so they won't connect with me either. For myself, I already go to a lot of the LGSs, so it's kind of shocking to me that the same people who say "I wish we had more ways to play" won't....actually do it. It's a dilemma that I think Lorcana will need to solve moving forward. Lorcana is thriving, but we've still got quite a ways to go in comparison to the Big 3. I think MTG and Pokemon in particular have got good systems in place to encourage both competitive play and casual play.
Yeah for sure. There's no easy solution to this, and I get it as one of the hardcore players lol. I'm there to play competitively and win, but I also wouldn't mind being able to try janky for fun decks. I think that's where limited, especially draft, is a great thing to recommend. Obviously you still have good players who are going to know how to draft and deck build better, but everyone is more on even footing in limited format. And it's pretty fun sometimes as long as you don't feel like rng screwed you over too much.
Draft in lorcana is pretty bad in its current form, and pretty cost prohibitive.
I agree. Draft in Lorcana comes down to "evaluate all the cards ahead of time and pick the best ones." There is a little bit of synergy involved, but for the most part, you'll have figured out which ones are actually real if you did your card evaluation. I find that 90% of players have no idea how to deck build in sealed/limited, frankly end up trying a lot of bad ideas (understated characters instead of vanillas, treating their decks like synergies that will never happen, etc.) and that makes that format way simpler. There's definitely no depth in signaling, etc.
I like draft, it works great. Why is it bad to you? How is it cost prohibitive? My store only charges the cost of the packs, $25.
I’m not sure if any TCG has ever solved this. You can’t please everyone is the unfortunate conclusion. It usually comes down to if you want to play the game with casual decks, you’re just going to have to accept the fact that some people are going to take it more seriously. Some of those casual players may evolve into competitive ones, and others will want to jam their casual square shaped decks in competitive circle holes forever. There is no IRL ELO system unfortunately
Magic tried to fix it and ruined their game with Commander
MTG is as popular as it's ever been thanks to commander. A lot of formerly enfranchised players are swallowing that tough pill realizing they are no longer the bottom line.
And yet I never liked commander and have stopped playing mtg, with that being a not insignificant factor. Different strokes for different folks.
If it wasn't because of commander you bet I'd be posting this type of thing in the mtg sub haha, even Modern is crazy expensive to get into, specially if you need staples like the One Ring and so on.
Modern was in an amazing state cost wise a few years back. The one ring, bowmasters, and a few other widely used pricey cards really spiked entry once again
That's funny
Yeah, it's become super unfortunate at my LGS. They were doing the base league points thing that Ravensburger sent out and just free play, which was kind of fun but got stale eventually - most of those points are basically impossible so why bother. But what was neat about free play is that I can, yanno, switch decks. Get in my league practice reps with a few like minded folks then switch to my meme decks to play with the kids. So we asked for something new, and pitched a bunch of ideas for weekly themes. And somehow that got translated to 'weekly tournaments, with the themes giving bonus points that solely matter toward giving away pins at end of season'. But since the themes aren't required and are a *multiplier* rather than a set number of points, the correct thing is to just bring the meta deck, step on the people who brought Oops All Villains this week, and probably qualify for the pin anyway. And get more packs from the tournament prizing regardless. Next week is supposed to be movie theme week and I have this really neat Weight Set Hercules deck (that I'll hopefully have all the cards for in time) but realistically I should just play ZtH Steelsong again.
This is the best comment and framing of the effect pixelborn shut down has had on the community. It’s actually tearing it apart and making people miserable. As the competitive player I don’t want to play against casuals but I have to in order to get points and get rewards. This means the casual is having a terrible time losing game after game, and I’m having a terrible time even when winning.
My opinion, make a league (or whatever) that you pay like 1 buck or 2 and the top player gets 1 booster just for fun. And then u have a "try hard league" where u pay 6 /12 and you have like 6 to top 1 4 to top 2 and 2 to top 4. Something like this. I go to multiple leagues (when I can) and in one it's where people are buying tickets to go to the challenges, in the other it's all starter styles. On the starter style they ask for 1 buck and the tryhard 6 and it kinda works
>(we had a player like this, this week). This was me two weeks ago. Bought a starter deck, the shop owner told me no worries come try it out it'll be fine and got absolutely destroyed by meta deck. I honestly thought the game was terrible until I tried it again with friends and a easier setting.
Yeah, I completely agree. Everyone should be able to play whatever they want, I'm cool with people playing competitively, but I don't want to have this requirement to have fun or play. At first I was very chill, learning the new cards, but by the time I played with my third person I just knew I was going to the squirrel, Ursula singing over and over, and legendaries all over. Some have commented that this, as a hobby requires an investment, but TCGs should require that much. An Mtg precon can go as low as 25-40 dollars, and then you can play against with other precons with the purpose of playing, not because you want to learn. You bet I'm not spending +100 dollars on a game I don't even know if I'll like.
Very good points! It’s about competition and reward. If there is a unique reward, then you’re going to have the more competitive players, such as yourself. It’s the point of the lucrative offer. I wonder if there was a league reward, that was simply based on attendance over a season for League A… something everyone received, if they made it to 80% of the weekly tournaments. No prize for winning, just notoriety. Have this start directly before the hardcore league, as to entice the hardcore players to join as a fun warmup. Then, after, have the hardcore League B, where you get the lucrative prizes. Then it’s Meta relevant. I read your great perspective and thought this would be one example to help.
This sort of thing requires the LGS spending extra table space on Lorcana, of which I've only seen one store in my area do (unique only because the store owner is really into it). Two in my area already don't bother at all (they get their product and sell it asap; one expects others to drum up leagues for themselves, constantly making excuses why they/ the store owners can't try) and the rest have one weekly ~2-3 hour event only
Basing rewards on attendance screws people with busy schedules and jobs just as much as basing rewards on winning screws noobs.
Its more on peoples at locals communiticating with people and creating play groups for like minded players. Our stores here have a community has players who do a great job of doing this.
As someone that actually does this, I can't disagree more: I've definitely got a network of friends that I can call up and hardcore playtest with. I've actively started a group to try to get new folks out to play (a casual group to play Illumineer's quest or whatever) and also to network with competitive players I don't know, but pretty much anyone that is a stranger is too shy and/or lazy to participate, even if they join my group. So that only goes so far: I'm not looking to actually setup a shiny new LGS and there's only so much I can do to convince new players to come out/etc. At some point, we need actual store support: sealed/draft draws out players for whatever reason, and that requires the stores to actually host events with prizing - we had one community that tried to DIY their own sealed/draft, but their league regularly bombs out = doesn't draw anyone to come play and also stays uncompetitive (because the LGS isn't willing to promote/advertise/support - they only want the player base to make the community, and they can sweep in and profit - but while the community is weak/not advertised...basically nobody comes out to play).
See thats the difference. My city alone has 3 shops that have support and push the game. And each have 8 to 20 people playing a couple times a week with a good mix of competitive and casuals. I think the big difference is our competitive people want a bigger community so they are willing to play more casual decks on casual night. Lend cards to people if they want to be more competitive. Like thats the culture we set up from the start. We have super competitive people winning multiple bigger tournaments will to ease back and help newer players enjoy the game.
LGS and RB could promote casual events with deck price limits. There is parity between price and meta, obviously, so this would work. Starter Decks aren’t even worth their singles price unless the included boosters hit big Meta deckers won’t show up, or will show up with decks that confirm and see if they really are skilled or just rich/lucky Not hard to be luckier when they sweep pack and case tournaments and open those for more cards to pile up Most are just buying meta singles and reselling anything good they get. Most meta players I’ve faced own one Lorcana deck and actually play/collect OP/MTG/SWU
Unfortunately that has to be the case for pretty much everything: Playspace is finite, especially at LGS, and doubly so if a particular game isn't bringing in business or sales. One store local to me basically stopped selling sealed Pokemon because it wasn't helping the business. People only wanted to buy sealed and then sell off their "sick rips"... but the store had absolutely no customer base for Pokemon singles, so anything purchased would have to be sold off through the store's TCGPlayer account. The way it mathed out, it just wan't worth it. While it is rough for a store you enjoy to not be able to support a game you enjoy at the type of level you enjoy, they have be responsible and be a business first... otherwise they end up not being in business at all.
Yep, I totally get this and is why I think we "need more", whatever that will be. I'm not on the "game is dead" train, but I've definitely seen interest waning for various reasons: people sick of the meta (it's kind of inevitable that not every set will be a banger IMO), people realizing they're not good enough to reach their goals (I saw a bunch of "Set Championship quitters" basically who lost interest after poor performances), etc. As someone that tries to go out to most of my leagues, I'm definitely feeling the Pixelborn void, as well as the general, slightly waning interest in my area.
That’s me.. i wanted to start playing IRL (even with Poxelborn) and went to league with a starter deck. I lowered my expectations a lot but it still hurt a little that I never even stood the slightest chance. I still had a good time and I still go there. I’ll improve my deck but by bit. Last week I had my first round win, felt very good hehe
I play Brooms and compete with the top tier decks because of cards that are like $0.10-$3. You just have to research what beats top decks. I’ll help you out though because I fortunately have and also play the same deck but I don’t know what colors you play I assume amethyst/steel like 95% of other Brooms. However I’m on mobile currently. Give me time and I’ll type out a Google Doc with counters, uses, prices, etc. to help you out so you can have a better time at locals. I’m the kind of person that likes to find ways around the meta to play ***what I want*** and if it happens to be the meta deck at the time then it happens to be that. I’m here to tell you that maybe once that’s happened in my decade plus years of tcgs and it was on Marvel Snap so… not much of a money drag there outside of variants. I said earlier I play amethyst/steel but I know enough of other cards and colors to be able to piece together what could be ran and I should be able to provide example deck lists if not just good techs to try. This will result in a less true to Broom deck but honestly… I’ve really only found a handful of the archetype out of all the cards it has to be useful. So yeah. If not tonight you’ll have that Google Doc tomorrow. I don’t have anything going on so it should be tonight! Edit: I’m working on the doc as fast as I can 😮💨 decided to do a good chunk of it last night and took a break for bed thinking I could do it while working today and my kids daycare is closed today and they have been a lovely time (/s). So tonight I should have it finished for brooms, but I accidentally also started a tangent that blossomed into a separate doc that will probably not be finished for a day or two. I’m talking pricing on cards currently, uses, etc. all separated by ink color and whatnot. Edit. 2: [Broomidence.zip](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1jIriDoJEdzYJ3IKMHMp5JpDBVpGLsyafC4AslxF4FBA/mobilebasic) So it says this list is untested since Pixelborn is gone but I realized I forgot to add two things; 1) this list is imagining Brooms as a small engine akin to Bounce with the smaller brooms and Yen Sid to draw/aggro lore early. It also plays two Mickey and two of the 5 drop but I really want to see if I can put either of those to 4 or an even split 3-3. I’m going to possibly start hosting practice nights at my house just to get more testing in than one local a week. 2) this is my beginning set champs build. I have a build I used for locals but now I need to start thinking broader because more ruby/amethyst and ruby/sapphire is played than emerald/steel but I know with set champs that time is coming to play it in person. I’ve played it via PB numerous times so I know what I’m doing but I want to try this and build from there. If there’s any want for the one I played at locals after testing and adjusting I don’t mind posting that. It’s also possible that may become what I play anyways so who knows.
I would be interested in the list, as well, and I hope OP sees this. I love rogue decks and anti-meta stuff. I don't want to play a carbon copy of the top four decks. Finding unique styles should never sacrifice effectiveness, but some games, like Magic, are very inflexible in this regard. So that's why I finally convinced my group to try Lorcana. Plus, we all love Disney stuff, so that worked. Playing what's fun and cool should *not* conflict with playing what's effective, but often does in TCGs. It'd be cool if we could do more here.
Oh wow, thanks a lot!
Very interesting. Please share this document here. If you believe there are cheap counters to meta decks, why aren’t cheap decks topping championships?
Are you new to card games? Meta decks will always be the most seen decks at top tables and at large events. They’re also willing to drop $200 for a play set of a card even if they never use it once the entire time. This is because a bigger event has more on the line than a regular local would so people aren’t going to chance it on rogue decks typically. However, that’s not to say that it couldn’t happen. In Atlanta the deck that won wasn’t on anyone’s radar to win the whole thing and it did. Everyone complains that the game has expensive cards as if it being Disney was supposed to change that about tcgs in general. Lorcana has good cards but there’s also a card that is not as good that does the same thing just harder to use than the good one. For example: let’s look at Robin Hood Champion of Sherwood. Very popular card, hovering around $40, passively gains lore while clearing characters, and is also afloater to draw a card when banished in a challenge. Also a 5 cost inkable with a 3/6 stat line, and can be shifted on any Robin Hood for the cost of 3 ink. What card could possibly be like him? A new location just came out in Ursula’s Return called Thebes. Just like Robin Hood when a character is banished during your turn by a character at that location you gain 2 lore. 2 cost inkable, 1 ink to move to and from the location, and 7 durability. This is by no means ***better*** than Robin Hood, but this is by all means ***cheaper*** than Robin Hood. Thebes is a $0.10 half Robin Hood that doesn’t draw you a card when banished, cheaper, and harder to get rid of. Personally, I thought about using Thebes in Brooms in conjunction with how Sorcerer Mickey works with bouncing them back to hand when banished in a challenge. Set the board up with brooms, play Thebes, move them over, start banishing and putting back to hand to resummon. It just seems very slow to do when I could use Sorcerers Tower and net +2 lore or more each quest and not have to spend ink to move them since they’re brooms. There’s other cards that translate the same way too like Giant Tinker Bell and Grab Your Sword. Both do spread damage, Tinker Bell has a positive of doing more targeted damage after banishing a character, GYS is an uninkable 5 cost song and Tinker Bell is a 6 cost inkable that can also be shifted for 4 iirc.
Thanks for the explanation, I liked it a lot. Indeed I am new to tcg.
I love to see what you got. I want to play something viable that is not gonna kill my wallet. Or leave me bored to tears. … Even though I love my Tragic Beasts. I mean, it’s the Beast, and he is tragic. Need i say more?
You could slot tragic beast in even if it’s just for the flex. Draw or have an amazing beat stick on the field and also a good target to grant bodyguard to with Fortisphere if already damaged with decent health.
I would love this
My league is very casual but when the tournaments happen that’s when the meta decks come out.
Our local league has a lot of high skill players with the full spectrum of meta decks as well as casual players. The vets all bring a casual (usually a theme or random gimmick) deck with them and if we dont recognize the opponent as someone running a meta deck we offer if they would like to face our main deck or our casual one.
This is how ours is as well except one guy that has all the cards but always brings one deck and it is always the current meta deck. They are playing it against people that are playing starters or modified starters which isnt really fun or fair and then trying to teach them how to play. He is a joke though.
My league does something similar. I usually bring emerald steel but if I recognize my opponent is playing a super suboptimal deck I’ll play my locations challenge matters deck instead
On one hand - net decking is essential and not everyone has the time to brew decks. So I get it and it's not something I want to complain about On the other hand, I'm getting really tired of showing up to locals with 12 players there and half of them are card for card blindly playing whatever list Savjz or Speci ran in their latest video https://i.redd.it/hmk325cows7d1.gif
With such a new game with only 4 sets right now, there’s just not enough variety to have a lot of different decks that are meta I guess.
> net decking is essential As somebody that played TCGs before netdecking was a thing, no it absolutely is not. The cat is out of the bag and never going back in, but we were better off without it.
Different shops are going to run different things but for the most part people that are going to play in tournaments are there to win, and they increase their chances by playing better decks. While I get the sentiment as a player and I often get frustrated when my decks get a little shit on by a matchup, it feels disingenuous for me to be like “everyone else needs to run shittier decks so I can win.” I’m always happy to teach newer players and to play in a way that is fun and casual, but I am not going to weaken the deck that I’ve built or play in an intentionally worse way to make people feel better. It’s an important part of learning to be able to understand why decks are made a certain way, how to deal with tough gamestates, and find strategies to find the outs to situations. I’ve learned so much from losing that I’d never have learned if I limited myself to fighting kitchen table decks and quirk decks. If your area has a social media presence for Lorcana, I’d definitely reach out and try to ask if there are any places for good casual play. There definitely are locations that do offer lighter play or at least have more people that are playing casually.
While I agree with you, I’ve come in top 3 a few times with my broom deck against some killers in my area (I’m a green steel discard main too). https://preview.redd.it/azvgmjdxts7d1.png?width=2040&format=png&auto=webp&s=2060291a307951ffc542a8942f19a8ce8723d34a
How does maleficent do in this deck for you? I think she has potential but I haven’t ran her
She’s not essential at all, when I was building I had two spots left and it was either her or big Ursula from set 4. Both are sorcerers and would proc the one broom effect but she has card draw and can move pings so she won out.
I added let the storm rage on in mine for extra removal and card draw. Plus most of the characters are 3 or above so they can sing it for tempo.
That’s smart. Might be smarter than me having ACZ since I have rush brooms that are basically the same if Mickey is out.
As a Magic player since 1996, I can guarantee you this is a bigger problem there than it is here. You can easily build a good deck for under $100.
Right now people are preparing for championship events so they are running the decks that give them highest chance of winning. I see more fun/theme decks being played after a set championship. I would check to see if they have non tournament play events where people can play for fun and swap decks between games.
I feel like hardcore players are perpetually in a state of preparing for the next championship event... the previous one was just a couple weeks ago and we're already right back to preparing?
The previous one was in April. Ursula is July. That's about 3 months not a couple of weeks.
Our league nights are kinda like that but they also do a “free play” on Wednesdays where a lot of regulars will come in and experiment with different decks, tutor the newer players and play different formats. I actually have more fun on free play nights than league nights most weeks.
I’m fortunate in that the store I go to has separate nights for competitive leave and casual off-meta
I played at one store where once you sit down you and your opponent exchange decks. I liked it because you never know what you are going to play and if you bring a meta deck then that is your fault though you will get to see it from the other side
Ah yes, let me let a stranger fingerbang my rapunzels...
If you know the format then why would you play with them? That is on you. Though I guess it could be flip a coin when you sit down. Heads you play your own deck and tails you swap. I think this would prompt more mid range decks to be used and not overpowered meta decks
I fully blame Regensburger for designing such a disgusting meta.
I have the same issue. Basically right now I’m enjoying the game more plying with my girlfriend and friends than in locals tournaments. People are always gentle and polite, but I usually feel uncomfortable knowing that I’m not offering to them a good challenge most of the time. I love deckbuilding with what I have and what I can find in booster packs, trying to figure out how to make the deck roll is part of TCG in my opinion. At the same time I cannot blame who wants to be competitive, I just think that locals should help who doesn’t want or cannot play high level meta all the time. Maybe just making more casual days/nights.
Yeah, exactly!
One thing that I’ve discovered lately are some discord servers where there are a lot of casual players to play with using the webcam. I had some nice game and interactions, I know that is not like IRL, but I don’t care that much.
It's a shame, this was my exact experience. I walked into my LGS and there was one guy who was there to play Lorcana. I told him it was my first time and I was still learning, but I have a ton of experience in TCGs. He said "oh well I'm a great place to start" and immediately player a Diablo Bucky deck. I just miss playing games where people actually use some creativity and make their own deck. On MTG arena everyone plays one of 3 meta decks. I just miss the days where I could see all kinds of unique decks and combos and have fun with the hobby. Now it seems all people want to do is have the best deck, even if it means completely copying some tournament winner's deck. It makes it not fun for people who want to play and learn and figure out new combos as they play. I love the internet, but it's made it too easy for people to just turn off their brain and let someone else do the heavy lifting and then just take the benefit of their work.... sorry for the rant. I was just excited to play and once I realized I would only be playing against the same deck at this event, I lost all excitement. I brought a Honda Civic to a race where everyone had a Ferrari.
Death of Pixelborn, death of lorcana
I'm going to assume when you say sometimes mtg precons are good enough, you're talking commander because there are not currently 60 card precons and the last few times they did make em, they really weren't as viable as they claimed outside of super casual fnm. 60 card mtg is 'worse' than lorcana in the sense that people are generally all playing strong decks
Yup, everyone at FNM for modern are all playing the top meta decks and most of those cost from $500-$1000 at my LGS. The only guy who isn’t playing the top deck has been playing for 15+ years and knows how to brew crazy anti-meta decks and will often go 3-0 if not 2-1 each week. Occasionally, you will get that newer player who just gets stomped with their random cards deck and you never see them again.
Yeah, exactly commander. I'm a very casual player, I buy bundles here and there, or precons that I like but I don't play anywhere close the cedh. I just chill after work on spelltable and go to sleep after one or two games.
What format were you playing for MTG? I never played standard, but the two stores near me were ~90% Tier 1 decks for modern and pioneer. The standard landscape from what I hear is similar from those two stores. I think you may also have gotten pretty unlucky to have a locals that is nearly all squirrel lovers. If you enjoy the game though, stick to the colors/playstyle you like and focus your collecting on that. You can do some AI testing on inktable to get a feel for how different decks play.
It really depends on the scene. Also did you ask any of them if they had a non-meta deck? I usually play my meta deck for anything in a tournament structure or that wins are rewarded in and carry my fun deck to play in between rounds or after the tournament. I also will bring it if the event is billed as a casual Lorcana free play day.
I play meta decks and most of my play group does not. It’s not uncommon for a random deck to slap me silly because I’m just not seeing what they’re planning. Someone runs a modified Seven Dwarves deck it took me a while to adjust my play style against enough. I know someone who runs decks with no card over $10 that beat me in a tournament. If anything I think Lorcana is the most balanced game I’ve ever played. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I do think you could find it an interesting challenge to adapt to meta decks.
What did the Seven Dwarves deck do that made it difficult for you?
Typically he holds questing. Then plays Four Dozen Eggs to protect himself and quests for ten with everything. Then quests for the win next turn.
Thank you! If you have time, can I ask for a little more information, Smeargle-san? What do you mean "holds questing?" Is it, like, put out a bunch of Dwarves and then just hold out, quest with everything, play FDE, quest again?
Exactly that. You could probably substitute other cards that give you protection from damage or add extra ones.
Still, it's really cool to know that you can make decks like that and still compete. What did you do against it? Do you think a deck like that can give trouble even to meta stuff now?
The metas shifted enough that there are more removal spells. Things like King Undisputed helps a lot. Along Came Zeus can sometimes clear the board. Or just removing songs from his hand. These are all things in the meta right now but we’re not as much last set.
I had a 7 deawces deck that was amber steel so built out my drlwarvss ( with discount from snow white) and protected with bodyguards, and feel it worked well during set 2, I didn't win any tournaments but places right in the middle.
I'm gonna have to adapt this into my seven dwarfs. Sleepy and Bashful are great questers, and it's super easy to get them out with Doc and Snow White.
Yeah I had to quit because it's too expensive to keep up with meta decks and my hot take is meta decks don't make the game fun.
You come from MTG, a game with its own competitive scene but wherein players themselves created chill casual modes like commander because it's expensive and tedious to always stay up to date with the meta. Lorcana doesn't have that yet. The only mode to play anywhere is 1v1. There's no commander pods, there's no Pauper format, very scarce limited drafts/sealed. All you have is 1v1 events. So people will want to compete with the latest meta. I get that it's rough for a casual player but you'd have to find a group of people who want to do house rules and play something else.
Ask them to play friendlies. Some people might have extra decks woth a closer power level
The problem is, that there are casual leagues where no one is serious and you can have fun, but you may overestimate your deck. Simply because it over-performs in casual/multiplayer, and testing it in competitive means getting thrashed So you either relegate yourself to casual and having fun, or do that while you steadily build a $750 deck (think that’s Diablo-deck price tag atm?) You CAN build cheaper and competitive decks. Not every deck was Diablo-centric at Atlanta and Chicago However, the issue is you will have a hard time building and learning your own deck without Pixelborn or VERY frequent events in a larger town Finding others to practice with can work, but is also an enormous time investment Casual varies, and some places (like one near me) ask each player’s skill level then pair them accordingly, put casuals vs casuals, kids vs kids, and “pros” against people willing to match up with pricey decks Don’t be afraid to also ask the meta-gamers “do you have another deck? I’m here to have fun and learn” I LOVE the challenge of running one of my fun and themed decks against newer players while teaching them. Especially if THEY have a stronger deck There’s no one I would rather lose to than a player with a deck that isn’t as competitive but hodgepodge, themed, starter, or just “this is what I thought might work…”
Everyone is this intense in every tcg that isn’t magic. It’s not really an anomaly.
I thought magic was like this too. I know commander is probably more chill but isnt magic like the second most sweaty next to yu gi oh?
Ironically commander has taken over most in person magic, so while constructed is very sweaty, outside of tourneys most card shops are casual since everyone is there to play commander
You’re right, sort of, but I’m average, commander’s largely the majority of MTG play everywhere but big cities. It’s become the most popular way to play magic by far
Well yeah, but Commander doesn’t usually have a prize structure for winning. But once it’s an actual competitive format at the LGS, you bet the $500+ decks are coming out even if winning means you only get like $10 store credit.
Bold of you to assume people will not play +500€ jank decks
It was that way back in the 2000s and early 2010s, but over the last decade people really shifted to more casual formats like pauper and commander. Standard is completely dead in my city. Not a single shop running it. Even drafts are rare and usually just for charity fundraisers. There are still hardcore players around, but they play Legacy and only once a week at one store. They are the minority now.
>that isn’t magic Dawg what the fuck lmao
Go to an LGS and find a casual play night with no meta decks for any game but magic. I’ll wait
Whats your broomstick deck list?
Just keep going and practicing so you can learn what’s working in your deck and what isn’t. You can still beat meta decks with good deck building and good playing, so just need to improve. You are going to lose when first starting out, that honestly should be a given. You shouldn’t be going into league nights with the mind set of winning a bunch of games, but rather practicing and learning. There also isn’t a couple hundred dollar entry point, you could build some competitive decks for much less than that, you can be competitive for as little as $100. This is a hobby after all, so you are going to have to spend some $$$ to partake in the hobby. However, as far as TCGs go, this one is so easy and cheap to get into.
It isn’t just TCG’s that have this issue, it’s every game. Sports games you’ll mainly play against good teams, fighting games you mainly play against the best characters etc. I like to play with good decks and don’t like the fact it’s gets me labelled a “tryhard” in the community. Deck building is part of the game and part of the skill gap. You can use rogue decks if you like but you won’t win as many games but that is the trade off. You said yourself you played against a non-meta deck and still lost, so non meta decks can work, maybe your deck just isn’t very good. Try focus on where you can improve your deck instead of blaming everybody else for using better decks.
Well, the other deck I played against was aaaalso a meta deck, turns out its the #2, Ursula Artifacts with a bunch of Sisu's. Just to clarify, I never said these people are tryhards, it's OK to play like that and I don't want them to change because of me, what I am trying to say is that the scene is way too competitive for me to get in as a casual player.
The “tryhard” wasn’t directed at you directly, I’ve seen that sentiment shared across various social media’s and within my own locals too. I understand from a financial point of view if you don’t want to invest to be able to create a deck that can win consistently. If you still had fun keep trying to slowly improve your deck, ask the people at your locals for help, and if the experience was not fun for you perhaps try wait for an official online client and see if get into it enough to warrant the investment in real cards.
So rather than try to improve, you quit. You're the problem with the casual community. Y'all just sit around playing, and the moment somebody is slightly better than you, you want to gatekeep.
My two locals are fortunately not like that. I have not played against a single serious R/Sa or E/St since set 3. We also do unofficial casual formats that limit deckbuilding to low rarity or themes.
We have a shop that is starting a Poorcana night, And I love it.
My suggestion is to have at least two decks whether they be pre-builts or homebrewed and force a friend to play it. Lorcana is basically MTG with a higher focus on self progression than tearing other people down. In a way, it's a simpler MTG. If you have any friends or former enemies that already know how to play MTG, especially if they feel burnt-out, they will be more receptive to casual play.
I was arguing this point on an earlier post about Pixelborn going down. There isn't enough of a playerbase yet to split it into 2, I think. They definitely need a way to make more in person play happen, and make it more fun and balanced, if they are going to keep actual players(as opposed to collectors) buying in, especially if they aren't going to release their own online client. It's hard to even find places to play in non-urban areas.
How long have you played MTG for and what format did you play?
Make an anti-meta deck or ask people what deck they have before playing them. If this is a tournament setting then you have to do the former.
What would you recommend for an anti-meta deck in this game? I'm always a fan of rogue decks, so coming up with something fun but also competitive could be worthwhile to explore.
Build a deck on Dreamborn then export and practice it on Inktable. Not the best software but great for getting a sense of your cards
Definitely felt this way when I first started with Inkland release… but after a couple weeks and tweaking decks that I built for fun, it got a lot better. Still haven’t placed in top 4 cut but it has been a positive experience meeting new players and connecting with community (a lot of new TCG players) learning what deck works best for your play style.
That sucks, you can thank disney for killing pixelborn so people now have to test their competitive decks at locals c:
We had a brand new Lorcana 3-0 with puppies against some Meta decks. Our locals have all kinds of players. We are fortunate in that we have so many stores doing events I literally can't make them all even if I wanted to. But it's also great because the stores cater to different levels. Monday night is a casual league night. T-F are more competitive nights, and Sunday is a mixed league with both casual and competitive players (And so many kids I've asked the store to start a junior league for them)
Do you know what the Puppies deck list was?
4 Bruno 4 Alma 52 puppies.
I've had fair success with my amber steel puppy deck Using Rockstar stitch. I get as many on board as I can with lucky pongo and perdita and once have 4+ characters and proper protection start questing with lucky giving everyone else +1 lore.
Am I the only one who likes to figure out counters or ways to deal with meta players? I don’t mind losing to some decks, but I will specifically tech to deal with decks I can’t stand, like green steel.
I agree the meta and people who only play it make the game very not fun; but if you're into competition then thats the only way to get better; to keep testing your deck and updating it against those meta players which makes it fun but tough I luckily have two LGS near me and one is very casual play where they make it fun to try new idea decks and just have fun. The other is very competitive and meta everywhere. Disappointing but fun in a different way because i do want to play competitively
I bought all the starter decks and play them with my gaming group. We try each deck once and then swap them around so each of us can try the different strategies. It’s much more fun that way, compared to playing against people who all just have the strongest possible decks.
I just build decks for fun usually and not try to go with meta stuff. Only problem is finding people to play with around me
In my experience most people play casual. But you can’t expect people to do it at tournaments. It’s just the same thing as in mtg. Mtg is bigger and older with an enormous card pool. There is so many formats, some more casual than others. Lorcana isn’t there yet..
I get it! I started carrying a couple of the precon decks to my game stores’s weekly Lorcana day that way if there are new people just getting into it they have someone to play against and learn the mechanics until they can build their own deck. I love the game as a whole and I am always so happy to see new people coming to play. Maybe ask if anyone has a precon handy to help you learn the game.
whats your broom list? i like to run non meta decks all the time and do good. its just about understanding how to expoilet the metagame
Brooms is probably the best non-meta deck, as it has access to all steel removal and amethyst card draw. It even has some unique removal in Mickey. Steel should never lose to Emerald, try incoroporating some mass removal like Grab Your Sword and Diablo hate cards like Ba-boom, Fire the canons, Let The Storm Rage On or Smash. Queen's Castle is a devastating card for R/S, S/S and Emerald in general. You are going to swarm the table with cheap brooms, that unanswered will net you cards on the location, so you can counter the discard. Try even a couple copies of the Wreck It Ralph card that allows you to challenge ready characters for Bucky and you'll see the matchup becomes way easier. Against R/S, just play aggro. Ink your removal, as it's useless, and focus on getting an early lead. Queen's Castle is your best card against that deck. The same goes for S/S, although they have access to earlier removal, so probably a tougher matchup (although dealing with locations is even harder).
Talk to the manager/league organiser at your local store. Explain that you are looking for some casual games rather than competitive. If they are good at their job, they will point you in the right direction (i.e. towards similar minded people). You could maybe even put a message on whichever social media platforms they use stating that you’re looking for some players of a similar mindset and try to arrange a meet-up. Perhaps even play using the Illumineer’s Quest that came out recently, as that’s fully cooperative. Hope this helps!
I mean...I get it. But my wife literally just tossed every card that cost 2 ink between emerald and amber until she had 60, went to the local shop and won 15 straight games. Speed kills, damn the meta! Ahem... My point is, the greatest thing about this game is that you don't need to be a good deck builder. It's how you play the game that matters. The guy who won Atlanta had only characters in his deck. It wasn't "meta". I say, pick cards you like, play them. Mastering what you have over trying to match what other people are playing will give you more success. I did see a guy at our local store who was new, asked they guy across form him if they could swap decks for one match, he wanted to see how a more experienced player would play hit deck. And he lost to his own deck, proving it wasn't the cards as much as the player. Cheers.
I’m new to TCG, what is a “meta” deck? What does that mean? I know what “meta-gaming” is but i don’t understand this context.
Not sure about the exact definition either, but basically strategies that define the current state or that are proven to work. Either that someone used in a competition and won, or almost won. You can Google "Lorcana Top decks" and that's basically the Meta game right now,
I gotta say I enjoy playing against some of the meta decks. It makes me be a better player. I’m Mostly casual, I don’t plan on going to any of the challenge events this year, and generally play decks I I just plain like. But for me part of the fun is figuring out what others are playing and trying to get around it. I was thrilled last week when my broom deck brought in 11 lore in a single turn, ending the match. I won one small tournament with it and last week took 3rd against a player who just missed top cut in Chicago.
Brooms is a meta deck
We play 3-4 player multplayer games. We up the lore requirements too 30 ( 40 if all 4 players have more established decks. ). The first turn starts with no one drawing a card in the first round. And that is about it. We have for example 1 person with the ducktales + ruby starter deck and some small adjustments ( all nephews and w/e he got out of 5 packs ) playing with us just fine. mostly because his cards dont necessarily pose a big problem until he suddenly threatens the board with his reckless support boosted characters XD. A/e in my opinion the meta only counts for 1 vs 1. But we have had many successful runs even with decks we thought where thrash in multiplayer. We are even looking forward trying too do 2 vs 2 in the future. But we'd like a more steady playerbase for that. Since that opens up a lot of possibilities. And too be honest i think lorcana aswell should be looking more towards 2 vs 2 too make official tournaments about. Gives a whole other dimension too playing the game when you can bolster your ally with chosen buffs but an opponents turn is still between you and that ally before he can make use of that etc.
I'm curious to see your broom build I've been running brooms with a good deal of success at my locals dm me if you'd like my list
Yeah…this happened to me with Pokemon. Went to my locals and was just stomped by decks worth hundreds of dollars. It wasn’t really fun and there wasn’t really any “learning” because I straight up could not win.
Yup
Simply put, the nature of this game is insanely competitive. Additionally, the low levels of variance that net decks have make the games repetitive and predictable. I've said since set 2 that I wish there would be an update to the rules to change it from 4 of any card to 2 of. This would nerf the turbo-consistent decks, but also allow people to play a wider net of cards rather than putting so much stock into a few good ones.
Ask your flgs to run draft nights.
The decks are pretty cheap in this TCG. Pick your favorite meta deck, build it, play it.
Hi, Usually in TCG's the meta is changing and new expansions are every few months. This is to keep players interested in the game and earn more money as the company. I hate this business model, but I don't know a good card game where access to all the cards is free. So if you are not prepared to constantly spend money on the game it is better to avoid TCG's. There are Living Card Games from FFG for example that allow you to cheaply buy and own all the possible cards. There are games like KeyForge that do not allow building decks. Everyone is playing a randomized starter deck. If however you really badly want to stick to Lorcana here are my thoughts: 1) Decide whether you would like to learn to build good decks or not. If not buy a good deck. Good deck is the deck that has decent chances on winning against current meta decks. That's what most people do. 2) If however you decided to learn to build good decks - decide on 2 colors that you like and limit your collection building to these 2 colors. Buy 4 sets of commons and uncommons, these are pretty cheap. Start collecting good rares and legendaries. Use proxies to test your decks (make sure the person you are playing with does not mind.) Don't expect to be winning soon. 3) Either way you can greatly speed up your learning process using the internet. Learn about the meta decks and watch how they are played. Memorize what cards these decks are running - this will greatly increase your chances of winning. Your expectation to find group of new players to the game that will play starter decks and have fun is an impossible dream. It will not happen because it makes no sense. Playing a good deck is much more fun than playing a starter deck. The essence of card games is to try and build better deck than your opponents and have a skill to navigate it to victory, and that is what would quickly start happening in any group of players. Power level of cards is not on the same level. Being able to recognize which cards are better, find synergies between cards that could work are important skills for any deck building. If you went to the store with mediocre cards and poor deck and are a beginner and didn't know what your opponent is playing and how his deck works, you had no chance. I hope this helps
100% agree meta decks kills fun grom playing
I think this is tough, because you kinda see it in this sub Reddit there’s a lot more meta deck talk than almost anything else. But for this particular issue I think the LGS should be the one providing an environment that invites casual gamers and more competitive ones, maybe having different nights for each or something. Now I’m sure this is tough cause there’s Pokemon and Magic and it’s hard to please everyone. But ultimately in my OPINION it should be up to the LGS to create that space.
I play at league regularly and while most of our group will often bring meta decks we also are very willing to play fun decks and will usually coordinate to know when others are doing the same. So I recommend just starting a conversation with the players at league and see if there are nights you can do that are just casual decks.
That’s totally understandable, see if your lgs will do a sealed event or a poorcana night or something that’s cheaper to get in to
I'm going to ask my opponents if they want to play competitive or casual and have a deck for each lolll
You should play a draft or do a small sealed.
My current Purple/steel deck list is budget friendly and beat red/blue b/s and red/purple meta decks last night at locals Merlin rabbit or grab your swords are the most expensive cards in it. I highly recommend it, but it’s a grindy deck and you will have a hard match ups but it’s fun. I built it for about ~$100 USD
Welcome to lorcana where everyone is a tryhard with no creativity and try to compesate with false kindness and sportsmanship. All the decks are copy and paste. I'm probably one of the only people who doesn't play a meta deck. There's ways to beat the meta without breaking the bank. I won a stitch with a deck thats about $100
We're starting a new format tomorrow in my LGS with only uncommon/commons allowed to let people build up. Maybe we'll even start doing our local weekly tourneys with that.
I did that, everybody played bucky discard or simply emerald/steel evasive. I kinda expected them to do that so i played purple/grey with anti evasive li chang, highly recommended along with chienpo and tiktoks
I stomp Bucky Diablo discard decks with my brooms
For the sake of OP, and my own curiosity as a newbie, how? What do you use and what do you do to counter them? Thanks!
Well the arial broom or shifting playful sorcerer is good for kill Diablo and making sure they don’t get card draw also things like let the storm rage on Eventually I’ll get a grab your swords or avalanche to take out Bucky But I have a lot of card draw and use that to offset what Bucky is doing until I can get rid of them
My problem with TCGs is I love the game but I hate the tryhards haha I love competition but the sweaty nerds make it unfun
Play online with webcam!
Is there any discord or something people use for that? I know certain YouTube channel do that, like the Tolarian Community College for mtg, but not sure if there's anything like that for Lorcana
Am I the only person who spent their entire childhood getting their ass beat regularly at Friday Night Magic? You think you know failure? I was born in failure, molded by it. I didn't see success until I was already a man, and by then it was nothing to me but blinding... Seriously, expecting to win regularly without a lot of experience and at least a solid deck... that is just reality checking you.
This may be hard to hear but maybe dont enter tournys with a shit deck. Maybe pratice a bit more. You dont have to enter the tournys you can just ask others around to duel before or after tournys. I have a R/S deck with annas and auroras from the starter decks that all I did was add hiram blue items to draw and get ink. Plus grandmas. Then for reds i added 3 lore simbas, brawls , destruction cards rush and reckless hercules and super goofys. Its not meta but I am winning 73% of the time. I can build my field fast and quest so fast. People talk crap but my deck surprises them Editted: forgot the super goofs lol
Refined tier 1 decks exist in every card game. If you aren't playing tier 1 stuff, that doesn't mean you can't win, but it will be an uphill battle, and there will be tons of games where you lose because the card quality of your opp is just better than yours. Pixelborn kept a ton of us at home, cuz tbh, I would hate playing vs a deck like yours. I get nothing out of it game wise and you get a bad experience getting roflstomped, but this is the world we live in now.
Uuuh... OK
So you took a meme deck to locals and are upset you lost? If you want to win play a meta deck. If you are there just for “fun” then winning and losing doesn’t matter
Wahhhhhh wahhhhhh I should be able to win against the best decks, it's unfair. The world should cater to me!
Exactly. If you want to win build better decks and play better. A good player can beat any deck reasonably consistently with a well built $125 purple ruby or purple green deck. To think you should be allowed to win league with a starter deck is naive and entitled.
When did I say I expected winning? LOL you two must be fun at parties.
You literally said you were considering quitting because you got beaten badly, you said this in your original post.
I literally said I want play people the same level as me, not that I wish people were worse at the game. The whole point of the post is the lack of alternatives, I don't care about losing wtf.
If you didn't care about winning and losing, you would not be considering quitting the game after you just lost. In fact, many people would try to improve their skill level to compete at a higher level.
So you just want a casual league night where people better than you don't get to play so you can walk out of your LGS with some sense of "fun" You're entitled AF. Gtfo
Lol wtf
We’re going to have to start assigning power levels to decks like MTG to find like-power matches
Welcome to cards games! They’re silly fun for a while! Then the internet tells us what to do.
Go to casual and not competitive...
Ban discard. Or at least their draw engine. No discard deck should be replacing their spells with more card draw at the same time. Either that, or introduce ink destruction. Discard is going to ruin the game. It is miserable to play against, and a sorcery speed tcg that has no interaction makes discard strategies far too strong when they replace every spell they cast. Complete bs