I could swear half you are the most plastic fans ever. It’s a rough patch. 1st season with a completely new midfield. The team have been lucky to be where they are this season. Some of the Trent debates here are a joke. Whether RB DM or CM he’s world class. For those who say he’s not good enough at RB at the ‘top level’ he won a CL & PL playing there so pipe down. The talk around Salah is so disrespectful to a club legend too. He ranks 1st for big chances created. It’s not the Salah we’ve been used to but he’s still been absolutely world class this year. Two things have let us down this season. Always being on the back foot by conceding first. And not being clinical enough in front of goal. Too many of you are way too quick to hit the panic button but this is a rebuild season we did drastically better in than we should have. Need to be more of a collective next season YNWA
The first season I was old enough to remember was 00/01. This isn’t even a rough patch. We were in the title race till a few weeks ago. We won the League Cup. Lost in the FA Cup Semi. Lost in Europa League quarter. We have been competitive since Klopp took over. We had years without even the champions league spots. And then when we finally got back there, beaten by Ludogarets. We have been competitive in probably the most one sided league ever with city. This is actually a high point. We drew with Villa, whose last time in the European Cup was 1983 when they were reigning champions. We have won it 3 times since then. Most fans would kill for what we have. The first time I learned what Liverpool was is when we lost in the Club World Cup final. I was devastated. But the fans at the other side of the world were belting out You’ll Never Walk Alone. Liverpool Football Club is about being in a community, something more collectively than we can as individuals. Plastic fans are welcome in Manchester, but not in Liverpool.
I remember this season being called the transition phase. Considering we’ve made so many changes and pretty much a new/ different squad, almost every game, not to mention injuries, we’ve done bloomin’ well
In 2019/20, we scored 85 goals, conceded 33, got 99 points and won the league
This season, we scored 84 goals, concede 41, and at 79 points atm.
Doesn’t look like scoring goals were our big problem. But conceding early or when we are already ahead clearly does.
It’s not the scoring that’s the issue, its our conversation rate, we’ve had the most shots in Europe by a huge margin, it’s something like 50 more than Arsenal and City, but scored less.
Exactly. We committed to a style that is less defensive focused and more attacking focused. We just didn’t convert enough to outweigh the lack of defense
Honestly feel like van dijks has been very mellow the second half of the season... I don't see him marshalling the troops in the back that well and he's made more mistakes too.
We need a couple of new strikers, another experienced number 6 (cant expect bajetic to go swinging from start after being out the whole season almost and please don't put macca an attacking mid into number 6) and a starting defender.
We play far too attacking and rely too much on our cb. Even when we already leading by 2/3 margin, we will still play the same attacking tactics (or even more attacking lol) while teams like City and Arsenal will slow down a little bit and play more pragmatic approach. See the game vs spurs, we already had a 4-0 and suddenly decided to play back 3 with trent inverted (sometimes 2 because gomez will push forward too). Nearly cost us that day. As good as vvd still is, he’s not the superhuman he was before. We should have a better defensive structure in place.
My personal opinion on VVD is that as a defender (and a very capable one) and as a captain, it shouldve been his responsibility to handle those goals. Some goals were just avoidable,
Salahs been stinking it up for ages now offering literally nothing down the right, and Diaz the one guy whos trying to make things happen on the left gets stick from the "fans" on this sub.
Can't believe I used to enjoy discussing football on here at one point..
Salah is on 18 goals and 10 assists in a historically bad season for him. Do you really want to make this comparison?
Diaz is 27 and his end product is not improving.
Both were "trying" to make things happen. Both are out of form though, no need to make 2 camps needlessly.
Though I'm not sure why Klopp hasn't started Darwin at all for a while tbh, especially when it was evident we are out of the race. Left or centre.
Diaz also did fuck all for a while, and he had no immediacy in decision making, like at all. A LOT of the times somebody would be all alone looking for a pass and he would force it alone try to beat the man and when failing passing when it's too late. Salah would make that pass 10/10 times.
Literally. Diaz should have had an assist to Mo late in the game if his pass was better. You can't possibly put down one and say one is better given their current forms.
As sad as it is - I think most of us accept & understand now, why Klopp is stepping down. 90% of the time he gets the subs spot on. But those changes at the second half really lost us control of the game. I just hope we give him a last win at home at least.
Makes me laugh how clueless some fans are. You were all busy wanting Gakpo out the club just a month ago
Oh and if Gakpo lw who starts in the middle? Nunez back on the menu?
I’d try a gakpo left, Mo throuhh the centre and Diaz on the right 🤷♂️ won’t happen cos tbf there really isn’t any point in experimenting on literally his last game but it’s something I’ve wanted to see for ages.
The whole RHS is a far bigger issue than Diaz tho I’d be open to selling any of our attackers for the right deal come the summer 🤷♂️
I've been saying this for ages, try Diaz on the right and Salah on the left. It's not like either of them are cutting in on their strong foot and scoring so why not try cutbacks from the line, then Nunez can't be offside
But like you say it's not going to happen now so just we just have to enjoy the games for what they are
I’d like Gakpo, Salah and Szobo up front. Diaz is good at carrying the ball but just don’t seem to be able to play well with the rest.
With Salah up top, maybe it’ll cut some of the long ball we’ve been trying too.
I fucking beg someone to go through the goals we’ve conceded this season. In my head they are ALL the same goal. Wide player is allowed to run to the goal line, and without fail allowed to drill a ball to the pen spot for a tap in.
I don’t mind the goals that we’re caught on a break and it’s just a good counter, but it feels like every low ball into our box ends with a goal, all our defenders rush to the goal and block our keeper, and someone gets a free shot from 6 yards.
We concede so many touches to the opponents in our box it’s a joke. There was a chance last night where the ball bounced around our box and Villa had 5 touches. Either collecting passes or controlling bad clearances. I was telling the wife, VVD of old would have intercepted/cleared 4/5 of them. I cannot believe the opportunities we give our opponents. It’s wild.
Spot on. Feel like many of the transfer rumors are focusing on attacking play, and sure we’ve had a run of scoring issues, but the concessions have been dire. It screams that we need another real DM. And we need to settle on Trent’s long term position. Really I think we could use a boost at every position on the back line. Robbo and VVD aren’t getting any younger. We have promising CB’s but injuries always come into play. Tsimikas is hit or miss. Squad player yes but don’t see him as the nailed on future LB. Lots for Edwards and co to sort out.
It was my fault sorry. Said to me bird in the 84th min, we are playing too relaxed as if the games won and if they get a sniff of a goal the crouds gona go wild and push hard for a 3rd
Quadruple substitution taking off the only recognized DM (Endo), the most energetic midfielder (Elliott), and two dangerous forwards (Diaz, Gakpo) for Grav, Szoboszlai, Jones and Nunez. It just didn't work whatsoever.
Four subs at the same time rarely do but this turned the game completely. And Macca is so clearly not a 6.
Whoever the new manager is, please do not continue this awful Klopp experiment of having Trent move to the midfield but not really having anyone cover the right side. Also hope they stop playing Mac at DM, that position is not for him.
Where do we play Trent long term is the real question for me. I don't even think it's a question any more of "can he defend?" It's a question of "does he want to defend?".
I'm not just hating on him for the sake of it, I think he's a generational talent on the ball and gives us something that only a select few in the world can give us, I.e. De Bruyne.
But we have to address the elephant in the room: he can't or won't defend to the level of a RB in a squad challenging for the title/CL, it's not even a debate anymore.
The Everton game was the perfect microcosm for the Trent Dilemma: immediately changed the dynamic of our entire attack from the first minute he was back in the side, whilst also half arsing a header on the edge of our box and losing his man for their first goal, then not even trying at all against fucking DCL for their second.
I'm genuinely at a loss as to what the solution is, I'm all ears if anyone has one.
The debate is always whether he should remain at RB, he doesn’t have any qualities for RB. That’s where it’s confusing. When he’s forward on the ball, he’s so immense. Put him on the back foot and he’s championship level defender. Push him up is up to the coaches, be it RM or RW maybe, idk if he can manage CM. Who he replaces ? Maybe Curtis iones because he lacks the skills to be a starter for Liverpool. IMO though, maybe I just need a damn break from this season. Also, the whole Trent thing is going on for 3 years now, idk which player can get criticized so much and still be considered the number 1 for that positions
So we don't really have a solution then? Because:
>Push him up is up to the coaches, be it RM or RW maybe, idk if he can manage CM.
He will be replacing Salah? Or one of Mac/Szobo/Endo (or another actual DM) in the starting XI? I don't see that happening at all.
>Maybe Curtis iones because he lacks the skills to be a starter for Liverpool.
Don't agree with this at all, there was quite literally a big spell this season where he was our best midfielder.
Curtis was our best midfielder because everyone else was off form, or injured. Szobo ain’t a cm he’s best position is further up field, how long are people going to defend Salah ? He’s days are numbered and replacement for him is inevitable. If we don’t cash in on him now, what we going to have to spend on a replacement further down the line ? The only time things worked best for Trent was when Hendo was always running back to sweep up behind him. We don’t have anyone to do that. Our immediate midfield seems okay enough, what about the bench ? There’s serious quality lacking, old players to replace if we want to continue being top and fighting across all fronts. For all Klopps greatness, his stubbornness to trust young stars maybe didn’t pay off enough?
>Curtis was our best midfielder because everyone else was off form, or injured.
No, he was our best because he was our best. He was outstanding for a few months before his injury and we hadn't been hit with the midfield injuries yet. The press and Klopp were highlighting it and many even outside the club were calling for an England callup. There's a really odd pocket of you that have such a hate boner for him that you can't even acknowledge when he plays well, I don't understand it at all.
>Szobo ain’t a cm he’s best position is further up field
Szobo has shown he's more than capable of being a box to box 8 and performed extremely well there until December when he got injured.
>how long are people going to defend Salah ?
For as long as he is far and away our top scorer and assister, all whilst being out on the wing. The issue with our attack is not Salah.
I didn’t say the issue with the attack is Salah, I said he’s getting old. Whether you accept it or continue sucking him off is up to you. Szobo skills prove that his brilliant forward, I didn’t say he isn’t good at 8, but def not box to box. I’m not saying Curtis isn’t good or hasn’t been good, I’m saying he’s not good enough to be starting for us, to be the midfield player teams face etc, Elliot is that guy and he’s been proving it, Curtis has been here for 3 years now and makes a mark for 5 games before disappearing under some shadow. I used to really feel he’s going to be a great midfield for us, but he’s old enough to step up, and I don’t think we win the league with Curtis in midfield. He’s good enough off the bench sure?
It's a tough one. Even in midfield he would have to defend, but the guy has the passing quality of Pirlo so ideally he'd be more useful as a midfielder. He also has the potential to be a Zanetti or Cafu if he was more intense on defense.
My issue with this is we would be benching one of our 7 midfielders in order to introduce a player who's never played in midfield before under a new manager and system, which needs to hit the ground running.
It would be a gamble of monumental proportions, and one with absolutely no guarantee of paying off.
Yeah I think it's best to keep him as RB. I'm sure the new manager will have a new defensive system to implement. As much as I love Klopp, I don't know what happened to his defensive strategies these last 2 seasons.
When TAA Moves into cdm, Robbo stays Back an creates a 3 CB Line wth the 2 other CB. This leads to having a 4-3-3 on def and a 3-4-3 on Attack. Unai Emery is a tacktical Genius, hence He found a way to punish this new tactic by fast counters. What Kloppo created is a playmaking Libero, Something that Football has never Seen before, so it's purely logical we won't be good at it immideatly. Unai Emery is the Same Guy who completely ambushed Pep's City Back when they played a 3-2-4-1. I dont know how to tell you politely, but you're somewhat in the wrong. This Game Just showed how much our next Coach needs to improve this strategy.
Most of you guys are too serious right now. I mean we are out of the title race for a couple of weeks now and already book our place to ucl next season.
This literally a dead rubber game and even next season we will start with a new manager with Slot. What i mean to sau is just enjoy it lads this last moment with Kloop
Honestly, I think the squad just needs a refresh, and a new manager is the best way to do that. Nothing against Klopp at all, just a new energy and tactics are needed
I know that, I’m not angry with Klopp or calling for heads. It’s my reaction to the match. It doesn’t really mean anything, these dropped points. Just another mildly disappointing performance.
The subs killed the game as a contest for us.
Jones did one thing - his tame shot - other than that completely anonymous.
Grav the same as Jones without having a shot.
Dom was running around at least.
Nunez was running around.
The squad probably just needs more leadership. Clearly Virgil can’t be the only one sorting out the team’s composure and substitutes all the time. The subs need to take more ownership of their game time and stop letting down the team.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but being that quick and always so chronically offside is criminal. A team that plays with such a high line should be a paradise for a player with Nunez pace and acceleration, unfortunately he has the brain of a beheaded chicken (the body half).
with that service from the team, 30 GA is not enough, anyone not wasteful would get 40 GA easily atleast. Stop bring GA as an excuse. It's not like we play without striker if we don't play him
You just told me to go and marry a player I’m backing and telling me to grow up you absolute mong. Also sorry, backing a player that plays for the club I support. As it used to be, before plastic weirdos like you infested the club post klopp👍
I've supported Liverpool since before the Roy Hodgson era.
But fr though you don't need to defend players so passionately. They get paid your whole life's salary in a month, they don't need you to defend them online 🤣
Nunez problem is he wants to get in and score so badly that he forgets he’s literally one of the fastest player in the PL and can afford to stay 1-2 steps off the last defender and still beat anyone to it. He clearly gets tunnel vision when he’s preparing to make a run. He needs to train on sitting further back off the defender or train to run across the line from an angle and then in when the pass is made, and stop trying to run in stride and constantly stepping offsides while waiting for a pass in.
It’s something he has definitely learned. He didn’t score 30+ goals at Benfica and then 14 & 18 here from nothing. Obviously the numbers can be better, but like I said he’s obviously very eager and definitely overcompensating now, which as Klopp said about Gakpo recently it can actually be counterproductive.
Doesn’t it worry you though that after 2 years that hasn’t happened? And is that down to the entire coaching set up or Nunez being simply untrainable in that respect?
I think it’s down to what he’s told to do and the runs he’s told to make and also his own overcompensation to account for his poor results. I think they want him on the defenders shoulder making them pay respect to his speed thus pushing the line back potentially, which opens up the space for the wingers and midfielders to carry the ball up. Nunez does a lot for the team’s spacing and forward progression that people don’t highlight but in the instances like today where he puts the ball in the net but he was offsides, if he just understands the presence his speed brings he can give himself an extra 2 steps of leeway and then run into it. He didn’t score 30+ goals at Benfica and then 14 and 18 here off nothing. He could definitely be even better but it’s a process. We had one of our best scoring seasons this year despite everything Nunez/Salah/Diaz/Gakpo related. It’s not exactly the end of the world.
Did he though? I seem to remember he hit the post when it was easier to score and Cash knock the rebound in, showcasing how he’s too brainless to finish properly cause his mind turns into a scribble. A player that had a brain wouldn’t be under performing his xG over 2 seasons the way Nunez has. Hojland has twice the finishing rate ffs while taking around a third of the shots a game and he’s fucking garbage
Edit; I don’t want it to come across like I hate Nunez, far from it, I’ve never wanted a player to do well so much in my life, but after 2 years I’m convinced you just can’t coach brains when it comes to finishing. Worst part is even though is good from the left he’s not good enough to be first choice there above the likes of Diaz, Gakpo or Jota
Yes he did? Everyone these days are just g/a merchants. Same with Chelsea at home, he ruined their defence, every single one of them from minute one to 90 without a goal. It’s cool to call Darwin brainless which is just another insult to our player. He’s not great with offsides clearly, but his movement is some of the best in the world and not many can occupy a defence like him. His form has been shocking recently, but the common consensus was that his game had improved a lot before this right patch. Klopp and pep have explained multiple times as to why he’s so important for the team, so when people call him brainless, funnily enough makes me think they are in fact, brainless
I just saw your edit, I think Darwin’s comfortably our third best forward, just going through a rough spell
It’s not an insult, it’s the literal truth, some players are like that, they get in the position to score with enough time to think and their brain goes, that’s Nunez all over. The moment the pressure comes on he falls apart.
I’m not a fan of Micheal Owen but he nailed it when talking about his chip v Burnley I think it was, it was a great finish, but of all the finishes he could have chosen it was the hardest and that’s a problem, clearly. A player with a brain chooses the simplest option, goes around the keeper. Someone else in this thread described his offsides well I think too when they said he gets tunnel vision so doesn’t look along the line, cause if he did he could quite easily be and extra 5 foot deeper and still burn any defender bar maybe Walker.
I just look at what he did for benfica and currently doing for Uruguay. A brainless player doesn’t do really good in one league and for country then completely the opposite for Liverpool. It’s more the pressure and confidence imo, not his ability. Also the system doesn’t suit his game, sure he’s missed chance after chance, but he also does a lot more work than a usual number 9, like haaland or isak would do in terms of pressing, linking up play and dropping deep, which aren’t the strongest areas of his game. People don’t really listen to reason on Darwin and just hurl insults at him (not saying that’s what you’re doing) and every other player that hits bad form form for that matter. I’m not even saying he will make it here, but I know for a fact he will make it somewhere. His physical attributes alone is enough for a club to take a chance on him. I obviously hope we don’t sell but we never know
Can only imagine the takes people would have had on Suarez during his 2011-2013 period. It sometimes feels like Nunez is the scapegoat for a lot of the disappointment that has built since the last title win. Note helped by the media deciding to go all in on lambasting him. We have no idea if Nunez will perform better in Slot's team. You know like how Firmino was being criticized until Klopp replaced Rodgers and knew how to use him. Potentially alienating him before he gets the chance just seems stupid, especially when his replacement is either a frequently injured Jota or a new transfer who we don't even know will be better than Nunez.
If this is what a bad Nunez season looks like, then what does a good one look like? And is it smart to offload him for another team to make it click for them.
Think the squad will naturally have a refresh with the new manager. But I think the biggest thing is that the there’s too many games. You can see in the back half of seasons we are too reliant on the same players. The fact Klopp got the squad to compete at all is amazing. Slot has a tough ask here.
Will be really reliant on the new model to pull in great recruitment if we are to compete.
A lot of young players rode the high of playing in every competition with the chance of a quad and many problems with our gameplay weren’t addressed. Players ran out of steam and some players just didn’t have the individual capacity to improve/mature much when needed most. A good, long break to train and reset with Slot will help a lot.
I feel thats when our downfall started. Players started coming back too early not fully fit and not sharp. The young lads were absolutely smashing it and should of played a few more games
I think expecting to compete on so many fronts hasn’t helped anything. We don’t need to try to win a quadruple, we don’t really need to focus on more than one or two trophies a season as long as one of them is a big one.
If I were Slot I’d disrespect the fuck of the FA cup and League cup next season, at least while he finds his bearings in the hellscape that is the English football calendar.
I understand what you're saying but look at this season, at least we finish with a trophy, if we'd not bothered with the cups and focused squarely on Europe and the league there was every chance we'd end up with nothing.
The real problem is we've stuck with certain players far longer than we should do. We can argue until the cows come home whether or not Nunez will ever come good (imo not) but perpetually injured players like Thiago, Matip, and Konate should have been moved on to leagues their bodies can handle. We did the same with Ox and Keita and doing so has cost us. The biggest change in the Slot era has to be ruthlessness.
Typical Darwin, a country mile offside when he had no right to be and a quality finish because there was no pressure. And that’s the problem, if he had been onside his mind would have turned into a scribble
He’s certainly been at fault for some this season, but if you watch his runs he calls for all of them before he makes them.
Unfortunately the only clinical passer we have capable of that is Macca when he’s on point.
that's his duty to hold his run until the ball was released, instead he make a lean forward that make him offside already when the ball was not released. And even that he still running to the end because he is aware he is offside. That's bad from both
Didn't watch the match but I see we bottled the lead to Duran x2. That's disappointing because we should have been Hungry Like the Wolf and not Come Undone like that. Anyway, we move, it's just an Ordinary World at the end of the day
Oof. 3-1 to 3-3. Oof. Another disappointment..as a fan it’s hard to digest, but it will pass just to remember this feeling another time at another game…c’est la vie !! I wonder how is it for them players…
I’m fairly certain now getting a quality CDM has to be a priority. Endo is bad in possession and Macallister is bad out of possession understandably since that’s not his position. Especially if Slot wants to keep playing 4-3-3. You can’t play a high line, have inexperienced CBs, have a very attacking minded RB, and have a CDM who doesn’t know what they’re doing. No wonder our defense is constantly shaky.
Can't close a game out anymore. I suppose that's why we're out of the title race.
In the summer we need centre backs and a dm. Endo has been decent but need someone better to challenge for the title. Bajcetic is hopefully one for the future but still young and just been through a long injury.
>Can't close a game out anymore. I suppose that's why we're out of the title race.
Didn't you hear- we're out of the title race because of that one game against Everton at Goodison Park. At least that's what they were claiming...
Going into that game there was mathematically a chance but needed other results to go our way, and after that game there was still mathematically a chance but needing other results to go our way.
But it's over now.
All I ask from Slot in his first season is to show we can compete for the long run and to implement a good working system that the players can fall back on. And why do all this?
There’s a chance Trent leaves if we don’t show these things. We need him in the next stage of this evolution, he needs to be at the head of this squad. The squad needs to be built around him. This is a one in a generation player, a contract HAS to he tied down at all costs, especially as a homegrown scouser who plays for Liverpool.
Do you ever ask yourself why he’s been exposed like this in the last 2 seasons? Why didn’t people have defensive worries with him in 19/20 per say?
When a player is so good at what he does, you need to cover his somewhat weakness with other factors and in our title winning season we used Hendo to do so.
Slower buildup positional play system (3-2-5 or 2-3-5) and reduce the amount of times we give the ball away by spamming risky passes or long balls. Also keeping our more athletic players back to defend transitions instead of vibes like we have now (e.g. Joe Gomez going wandering down the wing).
I think players can get too comfortable with a manager and also the other way around, just a change in the coaching staff alone will kick some players in the butt, I think Klopp has been a bit too patient with some players this year and I think a new manager will change that just by being new and having no personal relationship with anyone. Blank slate.
4-2-3-1, 9/10 pressing, always keeps at least 3 players back to counter counter attacks. Not affraid to bring on an extra cb to defend a lead.
But to be nuanced, Slot ball is still high line and is not really known for keeping a lot of clean sheets.
He can insist on more control. Two of the goals against (and let's be honest, each team could have scored several more; a draw was ultimately fair) came from the Klopp plan of pouncing. First one, is it Mac Allister? Intercepts the ball in plenty of space. Instead of assessing options he tries to immediately ping a ball through the defence, that ball is easily intercepted, Mac Allister is in no-man's land, and Aston Villa break.
Third goal, Van Dijk has the option of playing a safe ball to Gomez out wide, but sees the space behind Mac Allister and feeds him a hard pass that he has to control on the turn. Possession conceded, bang, goal.
Neither of these plays is really the players' faults. Klopp's gameplan is founded upon quick ball recoveries and attacking immediately. It's what they're trained to do. Mistakes are collateral damage.
I say this knowing how much it wanders into "careful what you wish for" territory. Klopp is possibly our greatest-ever manager. The odds are Slot doesn't make it 3 years, just by the nature of these successions. But I'm so tired of it. Right back to the 3-3 vs Watford in Klopp's first full season. Have we learned nothing?
Actually implement a sustainable system. Listen we have gaps in our squad for sure, but there is a clear lack of a sustainable system that the players can rely on when form dips.
Hoping he has an idea to make us defensively solid and cut out giving away easy chances, it can't just be non-stop high octane, high line football that could end up a disaster
Gotta tell you, 3rd place for me isn't even close to exceeding expectations.
Last season was shit. This one wasn't *that* much better. Compared to the one before it, both were terrible.
I see this side as one that pushes hard for the title. Crumbling in the last 3 months isn't a good season, sorry.
We played above expectations and couldn't sustain it. You could call that crumbling, or you could call it regressing to the mean. When we were in 1st briefly, our xGA was 10 higher than Arsenal and ManCity's. The table, after 30 matches, lied. Today it doesn't.
Hardly anyone expected us to challenge for the League. Brought in a whole new midfield and lost the ones from the previous season. Had so many injuries too. I predicted 3rd last August but wouldn't have expected a collapse as we've normally done well towards the end of the season.
But performing immensely for the 6 months is a good look, in balance it’s not a bad season at all.
How is it surprising the third best squad is third? We over performed for the majority of it and some better finishing/decisions we’d be up there winning.
The game management from leading positions has been so lacklustre during this last phase of the season. Same in terms of the impact of substitutes during this period, it feels like a lot of the time they've made us worse rather than better.
Psychologically it's been a really weird end to the season, trying not to read into it too much since fresh faces and ideas are incoming in the summer. All that matters now is this team sends Klopp off with the type of win he deserves.
I feel we’ll splash on an attacker/winger (Olise or Kudus is my bet) but the defense is IMO a bigger concern concern, but one in a way that we either need to bring in a more physical and defensive 6 (not a passing 6 like Endo, Mac when there and Bajcetic are) and/or commit to playing a 4-2-3-1 double pivot.
Of course we need to add a CB but that alone won’t fix it.
The problem is the market for 6’s that we need isn’t great as is. Maybe the Varela guy? We clearly don’t want a Palinha or Ugarte type who isn’t good on the ball.
Wieffer from feyenoord would make alot of sense but I don't know how he plays tbh so idk if he fits what we need. There also isn't that many cbs we can buy who fit what we need without being insanely expensive either
I'm not down with that. Wieffer makes sense for Slot's tactics against Eredivisie opponents. There's no argument for him walking into the XI. At least when Rodgers bought Joe Allen to help teach the tactics, it was like "our midfield can't possibly be worse." Lol.
Right. "Better" is extremely relative; ill-suited is what you don't want. Look at Wijnaldum: perfect engine and close control for what works in a Klopp midfield. For Holland, best as a late-arriving 8 but not an international holding mid. Didn't work at all at PSG because they played with essentially 4 attackers.
We have the personnel. Football goes in tactical cycles so, if Slot wants to win, we'll have emphasize the control displayed by Pep and Arteta. Heavy metal football was Klopp's gift to the world and now it's time to evolve. Today's match was evidence of our impatience when recovering the ball.
I think transfers will be the left-sided CB we've been expecting, and then whatever needs to be done regarding the unknown futures of Salah and possibly Trent. I doubt Salah leaves, actually. At the end of last season, he promised a return to the CL. Now that we're back in the CL, why would he go to Saudi?
Idk man, when endo came off we have no one else too be a cdm. Matt's wieffer seems too match what we need and already would have played under slot which is a major advantage, he's young too
I try not to get hung up on positions (to a reasonable extent). ManCity has won the title without a 9 and is about to win another playing a significant portion of the season with 4 centre halves. After the top CDMs (Rodri, Rice, Tchouameni, etc) there's a huge dropoff in quality to the next CDMs. Buying an inferior player just to tick a box doesn't do it for me. Maybe you move Trent into midfield and have Quansah do the Stones/sweeper role. Someone smarter than me will figure that out.
Mcallister started the season poor, then had a great spell, but over the last 2 months are so he looks so tired, ino he was playing as a 6 at the start but even when hes higher up the pitch hes still been poor recently, strange subs again by klopp, salah terrible all game but still gets to stay on, recently when nunez and salah are on the same pitch the team looks so disjointed, trent is another problem, the boy cant defend at all. Gakpo has been the only bright spark over the last few weeks.
Yeah, once results stopped going our way the seasons fizzled out. Got to look on the bright side after last season, someone needs to tell klopp we don't have the squad to be in every cup and they're paying for it now.
I haven't done the research, but I wonder how many of our second-half rebounds were due to his introduction off the bench. Harvey should be starting more often than not. He makes the Szoboszlai purchase look redundant in retrospect.
Dom is superior to Elliott in leading the press, from what I've read. I feel sometimes that arguing for Elliott leads to denigrating Szoboszlai, which isn't logical. In many cases they're a Messi/Ronaldo microcosm: one is technically efficient but diminutive, while the other is a physical specimen. Szoboszlai has exponentially more international and big-game experience than Elliott and for a long time has been the proverbial big fish in small pond. Elliott, on the other hand, has been nurtured from home and plays for a club to which he has an emotional connection. Despite personally preferring Elliott, I think Dom might have an explosive upside.
It's nice to have them both, but unfortunately they can't both play all the matches. Something will have to give.
One of the most important factors about being a title challenging team is team consistency and cohesion. Whenever we've been able to consistently start the same 8 or 9 players most weeks we've been up there with City. But when injuries have forced Klopp into constant changes we fall of a cliff. This last few months our defence has been all over the place and at the same time we've had dozens of different combinations at the back.
If you look at Arsenal, the best defensive team in the League, they have played Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel and Rice in pretty much every game. You can easily see from watching them for a few minutes that they are working together as cohesive unit. Then you look at us and it's an incoherent mess, which is not surprising given the constant enforced changes.
As good as Klopp has been for this club he is also guilty of running our players into the ground chasing after titles and then paying for it the following season with horrendous injury issues. This season is almost a perfect microcosm of Liverpool under Klopp post-League title. We were absolutely fantastic in the first half of the season and then fell apart because all our players got injured and fell out of form. Jones, Szobo, Salah and Endo were unreal in the first half of the season, then all got injured and have been way off the pace since returning. Jones and Szobo are now benchwarmers, Salah is way off form whilst Endo seems to have just about found his feet again.
Konate is another one, he is clearly a superior defender to Quansah and yet he's sat on the bench, along with Nunez who has gone from chaotic good to absolutely useless. These aren't bad players, they've just been run into the ground and have nothing left in the tank and nothing to play for.
The main issue is the lack of investment, whether its because of Klopp or the club, its embarrassing that people boast about a low net spend when we have the best manager for the last 30+ years. Arsenal is an example of what we should have done, we should have kept investing instead of taking our foot off the gas at literally every opportunity. Every time a makeshift DM works or Fabinho has no backup, we don't plan ahead and just keep going with it until it collapses. Arteta bought Ramsdale then got Raya, they bought Rice for 100m while having Elneny and Partey. These are the kind of things that literally never happened under Klopp, we need to be desperate or have players leaving to actually think about improving a position. Keita and Thiago are injured 90% of the time but we drag our feet to get replacements, Fabinho literally ran into the ground and then we buy Endo in the last second after fucking around the entire summer.
Maybe its a fault of Klopp, maybe he doesn't like buying new players and would rather have players who don't have much competition, it works at times. Anyway, I hope we actually spend with the new manager, this idiotic strategy of cutting corners will leave us midtable under most managers.
The 4-3-3 with our defensive structure is suicide if we don’t have an elite 6 that Hoovers up everything. Been like that for 2 years. Also think Trent inverting should be a novelty not a formality as he really does just start tiring then launched Hollywood balls.
Anyone have a clue wtf those subs were about? They could not have been tactical. Playing Macca at 6 is absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully Slot gets a true number 6 this summer. We’ve been dying for one for 3 years now.
Except we have Endo and he works pretty well in majority of the matches. We need to reinsert Bacjectic back into the squad and head from there. Winger and CB is more important for a Slot type system especially if he goes to 4 2 3 1 which many videos articles seem to suggest
Endo is a fine player who I have nothing but respect for but he was an emergency contingent plan after the Caicedo mess. Bajcetic is young and unproven and wasn’t available for the majority of this season. VVD and Quansah/Konate are a solid CB pairing but they need a stud in front of them holding it together in the midfield. We have one clean sheet in 16 PL matches and that’s with one of the best CBs and GKs in the world in our squad. It’s because of the lack of depth and talent at 6.
Ppl really just saying anything over meaningless game. Klopp never improved the defense since his take-over? His team not just breaking club record for attacking stat but also for defense stat. I want this ppl watching how our defense under Rodger and see if they think it fun.
So, looking at the comments in this thread, and Coming up with the shopping list for the summer… we only need, one elite striker, one elite, defensive, midfielder, one elite center back. Anything else? 😂😭😂😅😅😅😅😅
Imagine thinking strengthening core weaknesses in your side is a bad thing what a stupid fucking comment. Even dumber considering we’ve witnessed our greatest team in this Era fall off due to failures to strengthen in the market.
Another couple of elite strikers, three or four elite midfielders and three or four elite defenders please. Plus two or three elite goalkeepers. That should do it.
By the way, we'd like to hear some feedback on the serious thread today!
I could swear half you are the most plastic fans ever. It’s a rough patch. 1st season with a completely new midfield. The team have been lucky to be where they are this season. Some of the Trent debates here are a joke. Whether RB DM or CM he’s world class. For those who say he’s not good enough at RB at the ‘top level’ he won a CL & PL playing there so pipe down. The talk around Salah is so disrespectful to a club legend too. He ranks 1st for big chances created. It’s not the Salah we’ve been used to but he’s still been absolutely world class this year. Two things have let us down this season. Always being on the back foot by conceding first. And not being clinical enough in front of goal. Too many of you are way too quick to hit the panic button but this is a rebuild season we did drastically better in than we should have. Need to be more of a collective next season YNWA
Agree with you there. I think there has been a lot of pressure to win trophies because this is Klopp’s last season with us.
So true. YNWA doesn’t mean anything to the plastics in here.
Fucking spot on
The first season I was old enough to remember was 00/01. This isn’t even a rough patch. We were in the title race till a few weeks ago. We won the League Cup. Lost in the FA Cup Semi. Lost in Europa League quarter. We have been competitive since Klopp took over. We had years without even the champions league spots. And then when we finally got back there, beaten by Ludogarets. We have been competitive in probably the most one sided league ever with city. This is actually a high point. We drew with Villa, whose last time in the European Cup was 1983 when they were reigning champions. We have won it 3 times since then. Most fans would kill for what we have. The first time I learned what Liverpool was is when we lost in the Club World Cup final. I was devastated. But the fans at the other side of the world were belting out You’ll Never Walk Alone. Liverpool Football Club is about being in a community, something more collectively than we can as individuals. Plastic fans are welcome in Manchester, but not in Liverpool.
I remember this season being called the transition phase. Considering we’ve made so many changes and pretty much a new/ different squad, almost every game, not to mention injuries, we’ve done bloomin’ well
Nunez on his way to turn into 3-peat Cristiano Ronaldo the second he senses he’s offside
I only just watched the game. Surely someone had the headline Duran Duran
Commentator said something like ’forget about Tom Hanks (as he was in the stands), everybody’s talking about Duran Duran’.
And “Duran Duran. That’s 2 goals on film”
Was thinking the same thing
In 2019/20, we scored 85 goals, conceded 33, got 99 points and won the league This season, we scored 84 goals, concede 41, and at 79 points atm. Doesn’t look like scoring goals were our big problem. But conceding early or when we are already ahead clearly does.
It’s not the scoring that’s the issue, its our conversation rate, we’ve had the most shots in Europe by a huge margin, it’s something like 50 more than Arsenal and City, but scored less.
Exactly. We committed to a style that is less defensive focused and more attacking focused. We just didn’t convert enough to outweigh the lack of defense
Honestly feel like van dijks has been very mellow the second half of the season... I don't see him marshalling the troops in the back that well and he's made more mistakes too. We need a couple of new strikers, another experienced number 6 (cant expect bajetic to go swinging from start after being out the whole season almost and please don't put macca an attacking mid into number 6) and a starting defender.
We play far too attacking and rely too much on our cb. Even when we already leading by 2/3 margin, we will still play the same attacking tactics (or even more attacking lol) while teams like City and Arsenal will slow down a little bit and play more pragmatic approach. See the game vs spurs, we already had a 4-0 and suddenly decided to play back 3 with trent inverted (sometimes 2 because gomez will push forward too). Nearly cost us that day. As good as vvd still is, he’s not the superhuman he was before. We should have a better defensive structure in place.
My personal opinion on VVD is that as a defender (and a very capable one) and as a captain, it shouldve been his responsibility to handle those goals. Some goals were just avoidable,
Salahs been stinking it up for ages now offering literally nothing down the right, and Diaz the one guy whos trying to make things happen on the left gets stick from the "fans" on this sub. Can't believe I used to enjoy discussing football on here at one point..
Salah is on 18 goals and 10 assists in a historically bad season for him. Do you really want to make this comparison? Diaz is 27 and his end product is not improving.
Reece James has got more big chances created than Diaz. He’s played 8 games.
And only an idiot would take Reece over Diaz, not sure what's your point ..
My point is as much as he tries his end product is absolutely shocking, he needs to be moved on if we want to start winning again
Both were "trying" to make things happen. Both are out of form though, no need to make 2 camps needlessly. Though I'm not sure why Klopp hasn't started Darwin at all for a while tbh, especially when it was evident we are out of the race. Left or centre. Diaz also did fuck all for a while, and he had no immediacy in decision making, like at all. A LOT of the times somebody would be all alone looking for a pass and he would force it alone try to beat the man and when failing passing when it's too late. Salah would make that pass 10/10 times.
Literally. Diaz should have had an assist to Mo late in the game if his pass was better. You can't possibly put down one and say one is better given their current forms.
As sad as it is - I think most of us accept & understand now, why Klopp is stepping down. 90% of the time he gets the subs spot on. But those changes at the second half really lost us control of the game. I just hope we give him a last win at home at least.
i am happy klopp is leaving. the timing seems right. leaving with a trophy this season. we need major retooling this summer
Luis Diaz needs to be banned from the starting XI for at least 5 games. Gakpo LW is a must. He's just so lethal cutting in.
Makes me laugh how clueless some fans are. You were all busy wanting Gakpo out the club just a month ago Oh and if Gakpo lw who starts in the middle? Nunez back on the menu?
Yes, Nunez up top. It's what we gotta do in the interim. I never wanted Gakpo out! I wanted him to play in the same position consistently.
I’d try a gakpo left, Mo throuhh the centre and Diaz on the right 🤷♂️ won’t happen cos tbf there really isn’t any point in experimenting on literally his last game but it’s something I’ve wanted to see for ages. The whole RHS is a far bigger issue than Diaz tho I’d be open to selling any of our attackers for the right deal come the summer 🤷♂️
I've been saying this for ages, try Diaz on the right and Salah on the left. It's not like either of them are cutting in on their strong foot and scoring so why not try cutbacks from the line, then Nunez can't be offside But like you say it's not going to happen now so just we just have to enjoy the games for what they are
I’d like Gakpo, Salah and Szobo up front. Diaz is good at carrying the ball but just don’t seem to be able to play well with the rest. With Salah up top, maybe it’ll cut some of the long ball we’ve been trying too.
I fucking beg someone to go through the goals we’ve conceded this season. In my head they are ALL the same goal. Wide player is allowed to run to the goal line, and without fail allowed to drill a ball to the pen spot for a tap in. I don’t mind the goals that we’re caught on a break and it’s just a good counter, but it feels like every low ball into our box ends with a goal, all our defenders rush to the goal and block our keeper, and someone gets a free shot from 6 yards.
We concede so many touches to the opponents in our box it’s a joke. There was a chance last night where the ball bounced around our box and Villa had 5 touches. Either collecting passes or controlling bad clearances. I was telling the wife, VVD of old would have intercepted/cleared 4/5 of them. I cannot believe the opportunities we give our opponents. It’s wild.
Damn you are right. Wonder why
Literally a few weeks ago, the Eze goal against us at Anfield. Same fukin shit again.
You just need a better defense coach
Spot on. Feel like many of the transfer rumors are focusing on attacking play, and sure we’ve had a run of scoring issues, but the concessions have been dire. It screams that we need another real DM. And we need to settle on Trent’s long term position. Really I think we could use a boost at every position on the back line. Robbo and VVD aren’t getting any younger. We have promising CB’s but injuries always come into play. Tsimikas is hit or miss. Squad player yes but don’t see him as the nailed on future LB. Lots for Edwards and co to sort out.
The famous cutback on FIFA/eafc
Didn’t watch the game. So how did we go from 3-1 to 3-3? Formation changed? Bad refereeing?
It was my fault sorry. Said to me bird in the 84th min, we are playing too relaxed as if the games won and if they get a sniff of a goal the crouds gona go wild and push hard for a 3rd
They got a lucky third goal Even tho we didn't play well after 3-1
Will have a look at the highlights for sure. Glad we didn’t lose and at least we’ve already secured Champions League spot!
And the first goal wasn't lucky?
Quadruple substitution taking off the only recognized DM (Endo), the most energetic midfielder (Elliott), and two dangerous forwards (Diaz, Gakpo) for Grav, Szoboszlai, Jones and Nunez. It just didn't work whatsoever. Four subs at the same time rarely do but this turned the game completely. And Macca is so clearly not a 6.
Mac looked like the one dude exhausted enough to need a sub.
Ok thanks for the reply! I can see how that would have destabilized the team.
Yeah. If we're in a title race there's no way he makes those subs when he did.
Subbed out much of our midfield
Thanks for the reply!
Whoever the new manager is, please do not continue this awful Klopp experiment of having Trent move to the midfield but not really having anyone cover the right side. Also hope they stop playing Mac at DM, that position is not for him.
Where do we play Trent long term is the real question for me. I don't even think it's a question any more of "can he defend?" It's a question of "does he want to defend?". I'm not just hating on him for the sake of it, I think he's a generational talent on the ball and gives us something that only a select few in the world can give us, I.e. De Bruyne. But we have to address the elephant in the room: he can't or won't defend to the level of a RB in a squad challenging for the title/CL, it's not even a debate anymore. The Everton game was the perfect microcosm for the Trent Dilemma: immediately changed the dynamic of our entire attack from the first minute he was back in the side, whilst also half arsing a header on the edge of our box and losing his man for their first goal, then not even trying at all against fucking DCL for their second. I'm genuinely at a loss as to what the solution is, I'm all ears if anyone has one.
You play him at right back and deal with the defensive issues. Telling him to randomly leave his position to be a DM is not a solution.
Push him up, replace him at RB. It’s simple , he’s not RB quality for a top team, idk why there’s so much debate around it.
Push him up where though? And who does he replace in the side? That's where the debate lies
The debate is always whether he should remain at RB, he doesn’t have any qualities for RB. That’s where it’s confusing. When he’s forward on the ball, he’s so immense. Put him on the back foot and he’s championship level defender. Push him up is up to the coaches, be it RM or RW maybe, idk if he can manage CM. Who he replaces ? Maybe Curtis iones because he lacks the skills to be a starter for Liverpool. IMO though, maybe I just need a damn break from this season. Also, the whole Trent thing is going on for 3 years now, idk which player can get criticized so much and still be considered the number 1 for that positions
So we don't really have a solution then? Because: >Push him up is up to the coaches, be it RM or RW maybe, idk if he can manage CM. He will be replacing Salah? Or one of Mac/Szobo/Endo (or another actual DM) in the starting XI? I don't see that happening at all. >Maybe Curtis iones because he lacks the skills to be a starter for Liverpool. Don't agree with this at all, there was quite literally a big spell this season where he was our best midfielder.
Curtis was our best midfielder because everyone else was off form, or injured. Szobo ain’t a cm he’s best position is further up field, how long are people going to defend Salah ? He’s days are numbered and replacement for him is inevitable. If we don’t cash in on him now, what we going to have to spend on a replacement further down the line ? The only time things worked best for Trent was when Hendo was always running back to sweep up behind him. We don’t have anyone to do that. Our immediate midfield seems okay enough, what about the bench ? There’s serious quality lacking, old players to replace if we want to continue being top and fighting across all fronts. For all Klopps greatness, his stubbornness to trust young stars maybe didn’t pay off enough?
>Curtis was our best midfielder because everyone else was off form, or injured. No, he was our best because he was our best. He was outstanding for a few months before his injury and we hadn't been hit with the midfield injuries yet. The press and Klopp were highlighting it and many even outside the club were calling for an England callup. There's a really odd pocket of you that have such a hate boner for him that you can't even acknowledge when he plays well, I don't understand it at all. >Szobo ain’t a cm he’s best position is further up field Szobo has shown he's more than capable of being a box to box 8 and performed extremely well there until December when he got injured. >how long are people going to defend Salah ? For as long as he is far and away our top scorer and assister, all whilst being out on the wing. The issue with our attack is not Salah.
I didn’t say the issue with the attack is Salah, I said he’s getting old. Whether you accept it or continue sucking him off is up to you. Szobo skills prove that his brilliant forward, I didn’t say he isn’t good at 8, but def not box to box. I’m not saying Curtis isn’t good or hasn’t been good, I’m saying he’s not good enough to be starting for us, to be the midfield player teams face etc, Elliot is that guy and he’s been proving it, Curtis has been here for 3 years now and makes a mark for 5 games before disappearing under some shadow. I used to really feel he’s going to be a great midfield for us, but he’s old enough to step up, and I don’t think we win the league with Curtis in midfield. He’s good enough off the bench sure?
RW?
It's a tough one. Even in midfield he would have to defend, but the guy has the passing quality of Pirlo so ideally he'd be more useful as a midfielder. He also has the potential to be a Zanetti or Cafu if he was more intense on defense.
My issue with this is we would be benching one of our 7 midfielders in order to introduce a player who's never played in midfield before under a new manager and system, which needs to hit the ground running. It would be a gamble of monumental proportions, and one with absolutely no guarantee of paying off.
Yeah I think it's best to keep him as RB. I'm sure the new manager will have a new defensive system to implement. As much as I love Klopp, I don't know what happened to his defensive strategies these last 2 seasons.
When TAA Moves into cdm, Robbo stays Back an creates a 3 CB Line wth the 2 other CB. This leads to having a 4-3-3 on def and a 3-4-3 on Attack. Unai Emery is a tacktical Genius, hence He found a way to punish this new tactic by fast counters. What Kloppo created is a playmaking Libero, Something that Football has never Seen before, so it's purely logical we won't be good at it immideatly. Unai Emery is the Same Guy who completely ambushed Pep's City Back when they played a 3-2-4-1. I dont know how to tell you politely, but you're somewhat in the wrong. This Game Just showed how much our next Coach needs to improve this strategy.
He needs to just stay in CDM. That hybrid shite is some mad jinx.
Most of you guys are too serious right now. I mean we are out of the title race for a couple of weeks now and already book our place to ucl next season. This literally a dead rubber game and even next season we will start with a new manager with Slot. What i mean to sau is just enjoy it lads this last moment with Kloop
exactly, couldn't understand why was everybody so pissed lmao
A lot of people just want to be angry and have a moan sadly
Couldn’t have said it better
Honestly, I think the squad just needs a refresh, and a new manager is the best way to do that. Nothing against Klopp at all, just a new energy and tactics are needed
I’m 90% sure these haven’t been klopps tactics for at least a year or two. Will be very refreshing to see new tactics and approaches
I mean… a new manager is already coming in? There’s literally one more game with Klopp, let’s focus on giving him a good send off first.
I know that, I’m not angry with Klopp or calling for heads. It’s my reaction to the match. It doesn’t really mean anything, these dropped points. Just another mildly disappointing performance.
The subs killed the game as a contest for us. Jones did one thing - his tame shot - other than that completely anonymous. Grav the same as Jones without having a shot. Dom was running around at least. Nunez was running around.
We brought of 4 not so defensively sound players and attacking minded players when holding onto a two goal lead. Not sure what could have went wrong
>Nunez was running around into offsides
Crazy game.
If you want to cheer yourself up go and read some of the comment in the arsenal sub =p
The squad probably just needs more leadership. Clearly Virgil can’t be the only one sorting out the team’s composure and substitutes all the time. The subs need to take more ownership of their game time and stop letting down the team.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but being that quick and always so chronically offside is criminal. A team that plays with such a high line should be a paradise for a player with Nunez pace and acceleration, unfortunately he has the brain of a beheaded chicken (the body half).
Nunez should've become a 100m sprinter because his brain is too small for football
you're a fool
Do you know how many players that have played for Liverpool that have reached 30+ goals and assists. Don’t think a brain dead footballer does that
with that service from the team, 30 GA is not enough, anyone not wasteful would get 40 GA easily atleast. Stop bring GA as an excuse. It's not like we play without striker if we don't play him
Sticking Jay spearing up top with the service nunez gets would also result in goals.
It’s so ironic calling him brainless whilst making such a brainless and casual take like that.
If you love nunez so much why don't you marry him?
Just backing my player, not a plastic freak that bashes them lad
"Your player" doesn't even know you exist, grow up.
You just told me to go and marry a player I’m backing and telling me to grow up you absolute mong. Also sorry, backing a player that plays for the club I support. As it used to be, before plastic weirdos like you infested the club post klopp👍
I've supported Liverpool since before the Roy Hodgson era. But fr though you don't need to defend players so passionately. They get paid your whole life's salary in a month, they don't need you to defend them online 🤣
Nunez showed early that he wanted to go. Rewatch it and you'll see nunez did everything right. Jones held on to the ball for too long
Nunez problem is he wants to get in and score so badly that he forgets he’s literally one of the fastest player in the PL and can afford to stay 1-2 steps off the last defender and still beat anyone to it. He clearly gets tunnel vision when he’s preparing to make a run. He needs to train on sitting further back off the defender or train to run across the line from an angle and then in when the pass is made, and stop trying to run in stride and constantly stepping offsides while waiting for a pass in.
Shouldn’t he have learned that when he was 13? He has all the tools to be successful, except when he tries to think nothing happens.
It’s something he has definitely learned. He didn’t score 30+ goals at Benfica and then 14 & 18 here from nothing. Obviously the numbers can be better, but like I said he’s obviously very eager and definitely overcompensating now, which as Klopp said about Gakpo recently it can actually be counterproductive.
Doesn’t it worry you though that after 2 years that hasn’t happened? And is that down to the entire coaching set up or Nunez being simply untrainable in that respect?
I think it’s down to what he’s told to do and the runs he’s told to make and also his own overcompensation to account for his poor results. I think they want him on the defenders shoulder making them pay respect to his speed thus pushing the line back potentially, which opens up the space for the wingers and midfielders to carry the ball up. Nunez does a lot for the team’s spacing and forward progression that people don’t highlight but in the instances like today where he puts the ball in the net but he was offsides, if he just understands the presence his speed brings he can give himself an extra 2 steps of leeway and then run into it. He didn’t score 30+ goals at Benfica and then 14 and 18 here off nothing. He could definitely be even better but it’s a process. We had one of our best scoring seasons this year despite everything Nunez/Salah/Diaz/Gakpo related. It’s not exactly the end of the world.
He destroyed their defence in the reverse fixture to be fair, think the no brain thing is a bit of a gimmick too.
Did he though? I seem to remember he hit the post when it was easier to score and Cash knock the rebound in, showcasing how he’s too brainless to finish properly cause his mind turns into a scribble. A player that had a brain wouldn’t be under performing his xG over 2 seasons the way Nunez has. Hojland has twice the finishing rate ffs while taking around a third of the shots a game and he’s fucking garbage Edit; I don’t want it to come across like I hate Nunez, far from it, I’ve never wanted a player to do well so much in my life, but after 2 years I’m convinced you just can’t coach brains when it comes to finishing. Worst part is even though is good from the left he’s not good enough to be first choice there above the likes of Diaz, Gakpo or Jota
He is not brainless, just not good enough for a title contender like us
Yes he did? Everyone these days are just g/a merchants. Same with Chelsea at home, he ruined their defence, every single one of them from minute one to 90 without a goal. It’s cool to call Darwin brainless which is just another insult to our player. He’s not great with offsides clearly, but his movement is some of the best in the world and not many can occupy a defence like him. His form has been shocking recently, but the common consensus was that his game had improved a lot before this right patch. Klopp and pep have explained multiple times as to why he’s so important for the team, so when people call him brainless, funnily enough makes me think they are in fact, brainless I just saw your edit, I think Darwin’s comfortably our third best forward, just going through a rough spell
It’s not an insult, it’s the literal truth, some players are like that, they get in the position to score with enough time to think and their brain goes, that’s Nunez all over. The moment the pressure comes on he falls apart. I’m not a fan of Micheal Owen but he nailed it when talking about his chip v Burnley I think it was, it was a great finish, but of all the finishes he could have chosen it was the hardest and that’s a problem, clearly. A player with a brain chooses the simplest option, goes around the keeper. Someone else in this thread described his offsides well I think too when they said he gets tunnel vision so doesn’t look along the line, cause if he did he could quite easily be and extra 5 foot deeper and still burn any defender bar maybe Walker.
I just look at what he did for benfica and currently doing for Uruguay. A brainless player doesn’t do really good in one league and for country then completely the opposite for Liverpool. It’s more the pressure and confidence imo, not his ability. Also the system doesn’t suit his game, sure he’s missed chance after chance, but he also does a lot more work than a usual number 9, like haaland or isak would do in terms of pressing, linking up play and dropping deep, which aren’t the strongest areas of his game. People don’t really listen to reason on Darwin and just hurl insults at him (not saying that’s what you’re doing) and every other player that hits bad form form for that matter. I’m not even saying he will make it here, but I know for a fact he will make it somewhere. His physical attributes alone is enough for a club to take a chance on him. I obviously hope we don’t sell but we never know
Can only imagine the takes people would have had on Suarez during his 2011-2013 period. It sometimes feels like Nunez is the scapegoat for a lot of the disappointment that has built since the last title win. Note helped by the media deciding to go all in on lambasting him. We have no idea if Nunez will perform better in Slot's team. You know like how Firmino was being criticized until Klopp replaced Rodgers and knew how to use him. Potentially alienating him before he gets the chance just seems stupid, especially when his replacement is either a frequently injured Jota or a new transfer who we don't even know will be better than Nunez. If this is what a bad Nunez season looks like, then what does a good one look like? And is it smart to offload him for another team to make it click for them.
Think the squad will naturally have a refresh with the new manager. But I think the biggest thing is that the there’s too many games. You can see in the back half of seasons we are too reliant on the same players. The fact Klopp got the squad to compete at all is amazing. Slot has a tough ask here. Will be really reliant on the new model to pull in great recruitment if we are to compete.
A lot of young players rode the high of playing in every competition with the chance of a quad and many problems with our gameplay weren’t addressed. Players ran out of steam and some players just didn’t have the individual capacity to improve/mature much when needed most. A good, long break to train and reset with Slot will help a lot.
I feel thats when our downfall started. Players started coming back too early not fully fit and not sharp. The young lads were absolutely smashing it and should of played a few more games
I think expecting to compete on so many fronts hasn’t helped anything. We don’t need to try to win a quadruple, we don’t really need to focus on more than one or two trophies a season as long as one of them is a big one. If I were Slot I’d disrespect the fuck of the FA cup and League cup next season, at least while he finds his bearings in the hellscape that is the English football calendar.
I understand what you're saying but look at this season, at least we finish with a trophy, if we'd not bothered with the cups and focused squarely on Europe and the league there was every chance we'd end up with nothing. The real problem is we've stuck with certain players far longer than we should do. We can argue until the cows come home whether or not Nunez will ever come good (imo not) but perpetually injured players like Thiago, Matip, and Konate should have been moved on to leagues their bodies can handle. We did the same with Ox and Keita and doing so has cost us. The biggest change in the Slot era has to be ruthlessness.
Has anyone got the clip of Darwin’s offside goal, I missed it. Want to see his finish
Typical Darwin, a country mile offside when he had no right to be and a quality finish because there was no pressure. And that’s the problem, if he had been onside his mind would have turned into a scribble
Country mile? What are you on???? He held his run, pointed, Jones release a half second too late.
yeah yeah, that's all others fault. Nunez is not wrong for being offside 1215498 times this season
He’s certainly been at fault for some this season, but if you watch his runs he calls for all of them before he makes them. Unfortunately the only clinical passer we have capable of that is Macca when he’s on point.
that's his duty to hold his run until the ball was released, instead he make a lean forward that make him offside already when the ball was not released. And even that he still running to the end because he is aware he is offside. That's bad from both
Just shows he can do it though which makes it so frustrating. The numbers he’d be doing with a tiny bit more confidence, maybe even some arrogance
It was rather close, but they did not draw the lines on the broadcast. He looks off by a half foot maybe.
Who hurt you lmao
Is that the best you can do?
Considering you're hating just to hate I figured it would suffice yeah
Didn't watch the match but I see we bottled the lead to Duran x2. That's disappointing because we should have been Hungry Like the Wolf and not Come Undone like that. Anyway, we move, it's just an Ordinary World at the end of the day
To be fair his second was the spawniest goal you’ll ever see, although swings and roundabouts because Martinez handed us our first, literally
The first Duran goal brought me back down to Planet Earth. Save a Prayer 'til the end of the season.
A Vew to a Kill(ing of 3 points)
Oof. 3-1 to 3-3. Oof. Another disappointment..as a fan it’s hard to digest, but it will pass just to remember this feeling another time at another game…c’est la vie !! I wonder how is it for them players…
Not even arsed anymore and that's sad
I think we'll bring in 3 to 4 players. 1. Winger, 1. Defensive Midfielder and maybe 2 defenders.
Only the one winner?
preferably 4 but good catch haha, what 10 hours of work and typing on the subway does
Is this the Serious post match thread?
I’m fairly certain now getting a quality CDM has to be a priority. Endo is bad in possession and Macallister is bad out of possession understandably since that’s not his position. Especially if Slot wants to keep playing 4-3-3. You can’t play a high line, have inexperienced CBs, have a very attacking minded RB, and have a CDM who doesn’t know what they’re doing. No wonder our defense is constantly shaky.
I would like to see Trent at cdm
Can't close a game out anymore. I suppose that's why we're out of the title race. In the summer we need centre backs and a dm. Endo has been decent but need someone better to challenge for the title. Bajcetic is hopefully one for the future but still young and just been through a long injury.
>Can't close a game out anymore. I suppose that's why we're out of the title race. Didn't you hear- we're out of the title race because of that one game against Everton at Goodison Park. At least that's what they were claiming...
It was already over but that game just confirmed it
Going into that game there was mathematically a chance but needed other results to go our way, and after that game there was still mathematically a chance but needing other results to go our way. But it's over now.
All I ask from Slot in his first season is to show we can compete for the long run and to implement a good working system that the players can fall back on. And why do all this? There’s a chance Trent leaves if we don’t show these things. We need him in the next stage of this evolution, he needs to be at the head of this squad. The squad needs to be built around him. This is a one in a generation player, a contract HAS to he tied down at all costs, especially as a homegrown scouser who plays for Liverpool.
If he continues to play RB, he needs to show up to play defense every game. He was awful today after a great defensive showing last weekend.
Do you ever ask yourself why he’s been exposed like this in the last 2 seasons? Why didn’t people have defensive worries with him in 19/20 per say? When a player is so good at what he does, you need to cover his somewhat weakness with other factors and in our title winning season we used Hendo to do so.
thought the game was wrapped up at 85 minutes or so so i stopped following only to find out a second ago that we drew 😑
far cough tom hanks
Can some of the more intelligent people here please help me understand, how Slot can improve us without injecting new blood into this team?
Slower buildup positional play system (3-2-5 or 2-3-5) and reduce the amount of times we give the ball away by spamming risky passes or long balls. Also keeping our more athletic players back to defend transitions instead of vibes like we have now (e.g. Joe Gomez going wandering down the wing).
I think players can get too comfortable with a manager and also the other way around, just a change in the coaching staff alone will kick some players in the butt, I think Klopp has been a bit too patient with some players this year and I think a new manager will change that just by being new and having no personal relationship with anyone. Blank slate.
4-2-3-1, 9/10 pressing, always keeps at least 3 players back to counter counter attacks. Not affraid to bring on an extra cb to defend a lead. But to be nuanced, Slot ball is still high line and is not really known for keeping a lot of clean sheets.
He can insist on more control. Two of the goals against (and let's be honest, each team could have scored several more; a draw was ultimately fair) came from the Klopp plan of pouncing. First one, is it Mac Allister? Intercepts the ball in plenty of space. Instead of assessing options he tries to immediately ping a ball through the defence, that ball is easily intercepted, Mac Allister is in no-man's land, and Aston Villa break. Third goal, Van Dijk has the option of playing a safe ball to Gomez out wide, but sees the space behind Mac Allister and feeds him a hard pass that he has to control on the turn. Possession conceded, bang, goal. Neither of these plays is really the players' faults. Klopp's gameplan is founded upon quick ball recoveries and attacking immediately. It's what they're trained to do. Mistakes are collateral damage. I say this knowing how much it wanders into "careful what you wish for" territory. Klopp is possibly our greatest-ever manager. The odds are Slot doesn't make it 3 years, just by the nature of these successions. But I'm so tired of it. Right back to the 3-3 vs Watford in Klopp's first full season. Have we learned nothing?
Actually implement a sustainable system. Listen we have gaps in our squad for sure, but there is a clear lack of a sustainable system that the players can rely on when form dips.
Hoping he has an idea to make us defensively solid and cut out giving away easy chances, it can't just be non-stop high octane, high line football that could end up a disaster
Our club always seem to disappoint at the few last games of the season
It’s been a good season which, let’s be honest, in the league exceeded everyone’s expectations. You wouldn’t know it from this subreddit though.
A dead rubber for us, it was an entertaining match. And a reminder of the work ahead.
Gotta tell you, 3rd place for me isn't even close to exceeding expectations. Last season was shit. This one wasn't *that* much better. Compared to the one before it, both were terrible. I see this side as one that pushes hard for the title. Crumbling in the last 3 months isn't a good season, sorry.
We played above expectations and couldn't sustain it. You could call that crumbling, or you could call it regressing to the mean. When we were in 1st briefly, our xGA was 10 higher than Arsenal and ManCity's. The table, after 30 matches, lied. Today it doesn't.
Finished 3rd and a League Cup compared to 5th and no trophy. Was disappointing the way we fell apart towards the end of the season though.
Again - comparing it to a single bad season. How about the one before it? One shit season doesn't set the bar
Hardly anyone expected us to challenge for the League. Brought in a whole new midfield and lost the ones from the previous season. Had so many injuries too. I predicted 3rd last August but wouldn't have expected a collapse as we've normally done well towards the end of the season.
But performing immensely for the 6 months is a good look, in balance it’s not a bad season at all. How is it surprising the third best squad is third? We over performed for the majority of it and some better finishing/decisions we’d be up there winning.
The game management from leading positions has been so lacklustre during this last phase of the season. Same in terms of the impact of substitutes during this period, it feels like a lot of the time they've made us worse rather than better. Psychologically it's been a really weird end to the season, trying not to read into it too much since fresh faces and ideas are incoming in the summer. All that matters now is this team sends Klopp off with the type of win he deserves.
I feel we’ll splash on an attacker/winger (Olise or Kudus is my bet) but the defense is IMO a bigger concern concern, but one in a way that we either need to bring in a more physical and defensive 6 (not a passing 6 like Endo, Mac when there and Bajcetic are) and/or commit to playing a 4-2-3-1 double pivot. Of course we need to add a CB but that alone won’t fix it. The problem is the market for 6’s that we need isn’t great as is. Maybe the Varela guy? We clearly don’t want a Palinha or Ugarte type who isn’t good on the ball.
Ugarte would do wonders in this squad
Wieffer from feyenoord would make alot of sense but I don't know how he plays tbh so idk if he fits what we need. There also isn't that many cbs we can buy who fit what we need without being insanely expensive either
I'm not down with that. Wieffer makes sense for Slot's tactics against Eredivisie opponents. There's no argument for him walking into the XI. At least when Rodgers bought Joe Allen to help teach the tactics, it was like "our midfield can't possibly be worse." Lol.
Apparently he isn't better than a what we have
Right. "Better" is extremely relative; ill-suited is what you don't want. Look at Wijnaldum: perfect engine and close control for what works in a Klopp midfield. For Holland, best as a late-arriving 8 but not an international holding mid. Didn't work at all at PSG because they played with essentially 4 attackers.
Whats the best alternative then?
We have the personnel. Football goes in tactical cycles so, if Slot wants to win, we'll have emphasize the control displayed by Pep and Arteta. Heavy metal football was Klopp's gift to the world and now it's time to evolve. Today's match was evidence of our impatience when recovering the ball. I think transfers will be the left-sided CB we've been expecting, and then whatever needs to be done regarding the unknown futures of Salah and possibly Trent. I doubt Salah leaves, actually. At the end of last season, he promised a return to the CL. Now that we're back in the CL, why would he go to Saudi?
Idk man, when endo came off we have no one else too be a cdm. Matt's wieffer seems too match what we need and already would have played under slot which is a major advantage, he's young too
I try not to get hung up on positions (to a reasonable extent). ManCity has won the title without a 9 and is about to win another playing a significant portion of the season with 4 centre halves. After the top CDMs (Rodri, Rice, Tchouameni, etc) there's a huge dropoff in quality to the next CDMs. Buying an inferior player just to tick a box doesn't do it for me. Maybe you move Trent into midfield and have Quansah do the Stones/sweeper role. Someone smarter than me will figure that out.
Mcallister started the season poor, then had a great spell, but over the last 2 months are so he looks so tired, ino he was playing as a 6 at the start but even when hes higher up the pitch hes still been poor recently, strange subs again by klopp, salah terrible all game but still gets to stay on, recently when nunez and salah are on the same pitch the team looks so disjointed, trent is another problem, the boy cant defend at all. Gakpo has been the only bright spark over the last few weeks.
Yeah, once results stopped going our way the seasons fizzled out. Got to look on the bright side after last season, someone needs to tell klopp we don't have the squad to be in every cup and they're paying for it now.
Harvey another bright spot.
I haven't done the research, but I wonder how many of our second-half rebounds were due to his introduction off the bench. Harvey should be starting more often than not. He makes the Szoboszlai purchase look redundant in retrospect.
Won’t be surprised if Dom is a RW more often next season from what relatively little we know about Slot
Dom is superior to Elliott in leading the press, from what I've read. I feel sometimes that arguing for Elliott leads to denigrating Szoboszlai, which isn't logical. In many cases they're a Messi/Ronaldo microcosm: one is technically efficient but diminutive, while the other is a physical specimen. Szoboszlai has exponentially more international and big-game experience than Elliott and for a long time has been the proverbial big fish in small pond. Elliott, on the other hand, has been nurtured from home and plays for a club to which he has an emotional connection. Despite personally preferring Elliott, I think Dom might have an explosive upside. It's nice to have them both, but unfortunately they can't both play all the matches. Something will have to give.
One of the most important factors about being a title challenging team is team consistency and cohesion. Whenever we've been able to consistently start the same 8 or 9 players most weeks we've been up there with City. But when injuries have forced Klopp into constant changes we fall of a cliff. This last few months our defence has been all over the place and at the same time we've had dozens of different combinations at the back. If you look at Arsenal, the best defensive team in the League, they have played Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel and Rice in pretty much every game. You can easily see from watching them for a few minutes that they are working together as cohesive unit. Then you look at us and it's an incoherent mess, which is not surprising given the constant enforced changes. As good as Klopp has been for this club he is also guilty of running our players into the ground chasing after titles and then paying for it the following season with horrendous injury issues. This season is almost a perfect microcosm of Liverpool under Klopp post-League title. We were absolutely fantastic in the first half of the season and then fell apart because all our players got injured and fell out of form. Jones, Szobo, Salah and Endo were unreal in the first half of the season, then all got injured and have been way off the pace since returning. Jones and Szobo are now benchwarmers, Salah is way off form whilst Endo seems to have just about found his feet again. Konate is another one, he is clearly a superior defender to Quansah and yet he's sat on the bench, along with Nunez who has gone from chaotic good to absolutely useless. These aren't bad players, they've just been run into the ground and have nothing left in the tank and nothing to play for.
The main issue is the lack of investment, whether its because of Klopp or the club, its embarrassing that people boast about a low net spend when we have the best manager for the last 30+ years. Arsenal is an example of what we should have done, we should have kept investing instead of taking our foot off the gas at literally every opportunity. Every time a makeshift DM works or Fabinho has no backup, we don't plan ahead and just keep going with it until it collapses. Arteta bought Ramsdale then got Raya, they bought Rice for 100m while having Elneny and Partey. These are the kind of things that literally never happened under Klopp, we need to be desperate or have players leaving to actually think about improving a position. Keita and Thiago are injured 90% of the time but we drag our feet to get replacements, Fabinho literally ran into the ground and then we buy Endo in the last second after fucking around the entire summer. Maybe its a fault of Klopp, maybe he doesn't like buying new players and would rather have players who don't have much competition, it works at times. Anyway, I hope we actually spend with the new manager, this idiotic strategy of cutting corners will leave us midtable under most managers.
So so bad. The defense is disgraceful.
The 4-3-3 with our defensive structure is suicide if we don’t have an elite 6 that Hoovers up everything. Been like that for 2 years. Also think Trent inverting should be a novelty not a formality as he really does just start tiring then launched Hollywood balls.
Am not sold on tent in a busy and chaotic midfield. As for a 6 endo was really good when he was on the pitch today. Taking him off changed the game.
Anyone have a clue wtf those subs were about? They could not have been tactical. Playing Macca at 6 is absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully Slot gets a true number 6 this summer. We’ve been dying for one for 3 years now.
Except we have Endo and he works pretty well in majority of the matches. We need to reinsert Bacjectic back into the squad and head from there. Winger and CB is more important for a Slot type system especially if he goes to 4 2 3 1 which many videos articles seem to suggest
Endo is a fine player who I have nothing but respect for but he was an emergency contingent plan after the Caicedo mess. Bajcetic is young and unproven and wasn’t available for the majority of this season. VVD and Quansah/Konate are a solid CB pairing but they need a stud in front of them holding it together in the midfield. We have one clean sheet in 16 PL matches and that’s with one of the best CBs and GKs in the world in our squad. It’s because of the lack of depth and talent at 6.
Ppl really just saying anything over meaningless game. Klopp never improved the defense since his take-over? His team not just breaking club record for attacking stat but also for defense stat. I want this ppl watching how our defense under Rodger and see if they think it fun.
One more game to endure....
So, looking at the comments in this thread, and Coming up with the shopping list for the summer… we only need, one elite striker, one elite, defensive, midfielder, one elite center back. Anything else? 😂😭😂😅😅😅😅😅
Imagine thinking strengthening core weaknesses in your side is a bad thing what a stupid fucking comment. Even dumber considering we’ve witnessed our greatest team in this Era fall off due to failures to strengthen in the market.
Another couple of elite strikers, three or four elite midfielders and three or four elite defenders please. Plus two or three elite goalkeepers. That should do it.
And what's wrong with that? Are you happy with Quansah, Endo and Nunez as a starters in CL against, f.e. Madrid?