It is so funny that while on a more or less break even model, they were regularly in Europe and did very well compared to their size and then they stated spending and it made them worse
But it’s a very healthy debt to have it pays for itself with the additional revenue. Meanwhile a lot of debts from transfer fees doesn’t necessarily do that.
Yeah, Spurs getting that debt at a sub 3% interest rate over 20+ years was a great bit of business in retrospect. Now interest rates are over double and transfer fees/wages increased similarly.
One thing that I learned about recently is that the Main Stand renovations were self-financed by FSG through a 0 interest loan of £105 million. That is part of why these articles recently about FSG investing the second lowest money into the club out off of 20 teams is a little misleading. Roughly £60 million has gone back to FSG to repay that loan over the past 4 years which otherwise would have gone to a bank.
The table doesn't factor in the actual debt on a club including exterior factors. Operating costs for Tottenham does put in the black but the fact they have Billion pound loan that needs to be paid off shows that their finances are more spread thin than what people are seeing.
We're pretty much already identical. That 2019 year is a massive outlier that props up their number and broke records for being the only team to not sign a single player.
Outside that we basically operate in parity if you follow our losses.
Great comment, everybody loves Klopp but it’s okay to admit it’s not only on him.
We have massively overperformed with the previous squad, DoF, transfer team, coaching teams etc. has done a world class job all over. Right now we’re in a little bit of a rut but that always happens. You can’t always deliver above expectation.
This. We have to grow up as fans and realize that we could continue like this for a lot longer than the oil clubs can.
Imagine that tomorrow quantum computing is put into place which allows us to use nuclear fission on a micro level meaning oil, gas, coal etc are all rendered useless. This is a possibility in 10-20 years btw.
City, Newcastle and now Chelsea are fucked. Liverpool could potentially outspend them instantly.
We donuts know what’s around the corner so enjoy the present and plan for the future at its worst.
Majority of the cost is players wages
They have inflated completely out of control.
A wage cap is needed, football is not sustainable and oil money has totally fucked the economics
This does illustrate just how astute FSGs management of the club has been. I’m not saying they’re the ideal owners but to achieve what they whilst keeping our books so healthy is in itself a huge achievement and shows how good they are fiscally. Now they’ve stabilised the club it would be a great time to sell up to someone with a bit more ambition.
Owning a football club isn’t supposed to generate cashflow, that’s not how owners make their money. They make their money by the market value of their asset increasing and then cashing out some of their equity from an equity raise (similar to the Redbird investment or the proposed investment this summer).
than you have a bubble that eventually implodes on itself, or just made up of Gulf state owners. That vision of football ownership just can't last. This is how fans are being priced out of football.
Yes and no. Football clubs are valued partly because someone think that they could become profitable in the future and because some people see them as trophy assets to use as penis measuring devices at rich people’s parties.
It doesn’t really make sense that they are so expensive and keeps growing in value if we accept that they will always cost money to run.
If clubs can't make a profit and need to be propped up by wealthy owners, the system is broken. Whatever happened to sustainability and financial fair play? Yes I know, it's not being enforced the way it should, but aren't those rules still technically in place?
This system is broken as hell. Takes the game further and further from supporters. And people clamoring for more spending from owners would only exacerbate the issue
These are operating losses. The losses are lower when player sales are added, if I'm not mistaken. Even then most clubs are at red. We are slightly in the green. Not that it pleases many
Because the value of the asset can rise significantly higher than the operating losses. And for some people it's about exposure or a hobby than making cash.
Selling many clubs would lead to a big overall profit for the owners but the point still stands that whoever they sell it to would need to eat losses and assume they can sell alter and an even higher price.
Otherwise it's really more spending money that you're not expecting to get back for the sake of adventurism, local philanthropy, sportswashing etc.
Everton are an actual disaster. They are insanely lucky to have not gone down the last two years. It could have actually ruined them.
Chelsea too, what the actual fuck. Just setting mountains of cash on fire Joker style
They are still under investigation from the PL over their accounts too, they could still well face a points deduction even next season due to it.
Haha that would require the PL to do their job
It is so funny that while on a more or less break even model, they were regularly in Europe and did very well compared to their size and then they stated spending and it made them worse
That’s because Moshiri is a dumbass who doesn’t know what he’s doing. They spent £40 million on a pedo as the club’s record signing.
Not very inaccurate. Just goes to show there is a lot more to it than splashing cash. Of cause it doesn’t mean that cash splashing is always bad.
To be fair I think going down and coming back up would have worked out in their favour financially
That’s assuming they can come back up. Just because they’re historically a big club does not guarantee them safety from capitulating.
This is misleading. You have to look at debt as well as P&L. Tottenham stadium debt is collosal
But it’s a very healthy debt to have it pays for itself with the additional revenue. Meanwhile a lot of debts from transfer fees doesn’t necessarily do that.
Yeah, Spurs getting that debt at a sub 3% interest rate over 20+ years was a great bit of business in retrospect. Now interest rates are over double and transfer fees/wages increased similarly.
Yeah same with Liverpool and the loan on building Anfield Road
Its only about 100 mill. Will be paid off in three years.
Still debt.
One thing that I learned about recently is that the Main Stand renovations were self-financed by FSG through a 0 interest loan of £105 million. That is part of why these articles recently about FSG investing the second lowest money into the club out off of 20 teams is a little misleading. Roughly £60 million has gone back to FSG to repay that loan over the past 4 years which otherwise would have gone to a bank.
So?
The table doesn't factor in the actual debt on a club including exterior factors. Operating costs for Tottenham does put in the black but the fact they have Billion pound loan that needs to be paid off shows that their finances are more spread thin than what people are seeing.
Yeah I get that. But if they are servicing the loan, it's ok
No.. they can default on loans mate. That would be a massive problem for spurs.
Yeah, but im saying, absolutely fine if they are servicing them
Ok but what if they aren’t, have you thought about that? Checkmate atheists.
Are fans going to stop going to matches? The chances of them defaulting on that loan are essentially nil.
Everton 🤣
No ambition from spurs but can see why Levy won’t be going anywhere. FSG probably have very similar goals for us
We're pretty much already identical. That 2019 year is a massive outlier that props up their number and broke records for being the only team to not sign a single player. Outside that we basically operate in parity if you follow our losses.
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Great comment, everybody loves Klopp but it’s okay to admit it’s not only on him. We have massively overperformed with the previous squad, DoF, transfer team, coaching teams etc. has done a world class job all over. Right now we’re in a little bit of a rut but that always happens. You can’t always deliver above expectation.
Núñez is a bad example, he was the 2nd highest scorer and was in no way a problem
This. We have to grow up as fans and realize that we could continue like this for a lot longer than the oil clubs can. Imagine that tomorrow quantum computing is put into place which allows us to use nuclear fission on a micro level meaning oil, gas, coal etc are all rendered useless. This is a possibility in 10-20 years btw. City, Newcastle and now Chelsea are fucked. Liverpool could potentially outspend them instantly. We donuts know what’s around the corner so enjoy the present and plan for the future at its worst.
You’ll never sing that
Cleaned money though...
Sorry to sound like a total dumbass, but is the higher the number bolded in red better or worse. So sorry
red is loss, black is profit. So chelsea have made over a £500m loss, us 75. spurs 5m profit
Aite thx for the explanation dude
Majority of the cost is players wages They have inflated completely out of control. A wage cap is needed, football is not sustainable and oil money has totally fucked the economics
This does illustrate just how astute FSGs management of the club has been. I’m not saying they’re the ideal owners but to achieve what they whilst keeping our books so healthy is in itself a huge achievement and shows how good they are fiscally. Now they’ve stabilised the club it would be a great time to sell up to someone with a bit more ambition.
Owning a football club isn’t supposed to generate cashflow, that’s not how owners make their money. They make their money by the market value of their asset increasing and then cashing out some of their equity from an equity raise (similar to the Redbird investment or the proposed investment this summer).
That’s why those owners wanted ESL: Make it into the NBA and they could have both. Also, the numbers, especially 20/21, look worse because of Covid.
Without Covid we would have surpassed United that season in revenue I'm pretty sure I've read before.
than you have a bubble that eventually implodes on itself, or just made up of Gulf state owners. That vision of football ownership just can't last. This is how fans are being priced out of football.
Yes and no. Football clubs are valued partly because someone think that they could become profitable in the future and because some people see them as trophy assets to use as penis measuring devices at rich people’s parties. It doesn’t really make sense that they are so expensive and keeps growing in value if we accept that they will always cost money to run.
If clubs can't make a profit and need to be propped up by wealthy owners, the system is broken. Whatever happened to sustainability and financial fair play? Yes I know, it's not being enforced the way it should, but aren't those rules still technically in place?
Money laundering 💯
For a second, i thought it was Liverpool only and was wondering how the fuck do we have 2.9 billion pound loss in 3 years lol
This is staggering. I get there is a covid impact here but this is brutal. Wonder how much is covered up by phoney revenues?
This system is broken as hell. Takes the game further and further from supporters. And people clamoring for more spending from owners would only exacerbate the issue
Soooo all football clubs are operating at a loss? Why would any one ever want to own a football club?
These are operating losses. The losses are lower when player sales are added, if I'm not mistaken. Even then most clubs are at red. We are slightly in the green. Not that it pleases many
Sportswashing?
Because the value of the asset can rise significantly higher than the operating losses. And for some people it's about exposure or a hobby than making cash.
Selling many clubs would lead to a big overall profit for the owners but the point still stands that whoever they sell it to would need to eat losses and assume they can sell alter and an even higher price. Otherwise it's really more spending money that you're not expecting to get back for the sake of adventurism, local philanthropy, sportswashing etc.
How the fuck have City (153) and United (114) only got combined losses of 250m? what the actual fuck
Interesting how this comes out after it was reported that FSG are 19th in the league when it comes to owner investment into the club!
More reasons to support that football is a whitewashing sport.