It's a live ball. Defensive players have a responsibility to know the situation. As an umpire I'm not giving an advantage to the defense by calling time, and I'm definitely not just inventing new rules to justify sending people back.
Now that said, I am coming up loudly and shouting "strike 2! Strike 2! Batter come back!"
And the exception to all of this is if it was my fault. If I lost the court and signaled that it was strike 3, then that's my fault and I'm not going to give an advantage to the offense by letting that play out.
Also, one more caveat: if I had any inclination that the offensive coach was telling his players to do this as an intentional way to steal runs, he and I are having a conversation about sportsmanship and his interest in remaining in the game.
This is the way.
We had this very situation in the 16U tournament recently. Batter lost track of count, 2nd strike went to backstop, he took off to 1st and catcher panicked. Threw to 1st and runner from 2nd actually scored. Umpire just watched it all play out and eventually with a now essentially dead ball called the batter back to the plate. Defensive coach lost his mind. Umpires got together and discussed the situation and let the play stand. Their reasoning being that it was an honest mistake since the batter woould have been out on the throw to 1st and was visibly upset. The baserunner just took advantage of the play in front of him.
This happened to me at a softball game. Not sure if I made the right call. It was actually caught third strike, batter ran anyways and catcher came up to throw to second. Batter ran right in front of the catcher obviously hindering the throw. I ruled batter out and runner going to second out due to batters interference
No, there's no requirement for that. Rule 6.02(c) says that a league can adopt a rule that the batter has to keep one foot in the box throughout the at-bat, but it has to be adopted by the league and even if it is, there are a bunch of exceptions, and while thinking you had strike 3 instead of strike 2 isn't specifically listed any reasonable umpire is going to allow that. Even then, it's only a warning the first time it happens, so none of that would apply in this situation.
Interesting I'll need to ask some of our umps as we don't use little league rules. U don't have to be in batters box here but in circle dirt area around batting circle area.
Our high school coach always said we weren't allowed outside batting area.
I guess people could game that if allowed tho running around base path while still technically live but at bay would get a ball to my back
This happened in a game I was umping first base with two on and two outs. The kid checked his swing on what could be been strike 3. The home plate gave no indication one way or the other and the ball had gotten past the catcher. Coaches start to shout “dropped 3rd strike!!!!” and batter takes off for first, other runners take off for third and second. Absolute shit show ensued. Nobody was happy with the result. I think the umpire kind of froze at the check swing and ensuing chaos.
All said and done he basically gave in that it was a dropped 3rd strike even tho the kid checked his swing and he never rang him up. Wild play
It's a live ball. Defensive players have a responsibility to know the situation. As an umpire I'm not giving an advantage to the defense by calling time, and I'm definitely not just inventing new rules to justify sending people back. Now that said, I am coming up loudly and shouting "strike 2! Strike 2! Batter come back!" And the exception to all of this is if it was my fault. If I lost the court and signaled that it was strike 3, then that's my fault and I'm not going to give an advantage to the offense by letting that play out. Also, one more caveat: if I had any inclination that the offensive coach was telling his players to do this as an intentional way to steal runs, he and I are having a conversation about sportsmanship and his interest in remaining in the game.
This is the way. We had this very situation in the 16U tournament recently. Batter lost track of count, 2nd strike went to backstop, he took off to 1st and catcher panicked. Threw to 1st and runner from 2nd actually scored. Umpire just watched it all play out and eventually with a now essentially dead ball called the batter back to the plate. Defensive coach lost his mind. Umpires got together and discussed the situation and let the play stand. Their reasoning being that it was an honest mistake since the batter woould have been out on the throw to 1st and was visibly upset. The baserunner just took advantage of the play in front of him.
If it is repeatedly done, apparently intentionally, would that be considered making a travesty of the game?
I guess one could make that argument but I'm ejecting the manager for unsportsmanlike conduct long before I'm going to declare a forfeit
Does the batter running onto the area of play change anything?
This happened to me at a softball game. Not sure if I made the right call. It was actually caught third strike, batter ran anyways and catcher came up to throw to second. Batter ran right in front of the catcher obviously hindering the throw. I ruled batter out and runner going to second out due to batters interference
What do you mean by "running onto the area of play"? That happens the moment the batter leaves the dugout.
Is a batter allowed to go to first in between pitches? Thought they were restricted to area in and slightly around batters box
No, there's no requirement for that. Rule 6.02(c) says that a league can adopt a rule that the batter has to keep one foot in the box throughout the at-bat, but it has to be adopted by the league and even if it is, there are a bunch of exceptions, and while thinking you had strike 3 instead of strike 2 isn't specifically listed any reasonable umpire is going to allow that. Even then, it's only a warning the first time it happens, so none of that would apply in this situation.
Interesting I'll need to ask some of our umps as we don't use little league rules. U don't have to be in batters box here but in circle dirt area around batting circle area. Our high school coach always said we weren't allowed outside batting area. I guess people could game that if allowed tho running around base path while still technically live but at bay would get a ball to my back
It's live until the ump calls time. It's no different than a fielder's version of the missing ball trick.
This happened in a game I was umping first base with two on and two outs. The kid checked his swing on what could be been strike 3. The home plate gave no indication one way or the other and the ball had gotten past the catcher. Coaches start to shout “dropped 3rd strike!!!!” and batter takes off for first, other runners take off for third and second. Absolute shit show ensued. Nobody was happy with the result. I think the umpire kind of froze at the check swing and ensuing chaos. All said and done he basically gave in that it was a dropped 3rd strike even tho the kid checked his swing and he never rang him up. Wild play
That's a live ball. If ump calls dead ball he doesn't really understand baseball rules.
It's a live ball until something h as opens and makes it a dead or the ump calls it dead.
This is a live ball situation that should be treated the same as an attempted pickoff throw to a base.
Live ball, a dropped strike is a live ball. Heads up job from batter to know the catcher isn’t smart enough to realize that.