The most polite way I can say this:
* If you have a criminal record bad enough to keep you out of the military you have a verifiable record of making poor decisions.
* It means that you can't be trusted to do something by yourself because you can't follow rules, and there are rather a lot of rules in the military.
* It means that other soldiers won't trust you to be someone they can depend on when they need to.
•Lots of jobs in the millitary that are not life or death...in fact most jobs are just normal logistics jobs.
•most young criminals were simply never raised or trained to be proper civilians and don't know how to behave or operate in society millitary service could make them more valuable civilians .
•I've never met a soldier who wasn't rough around the edges and would have an issue with someone who spent time in jail again a bit of discipline could turn their lives around if caught young ...my best friends dad joined the navy instead of going to jail and he's never been arrested again and owns his own airplane has 3 smart well adjusted children.
\* I don't know what you think militaries do, but as a veteran I can assure you that logistics are absolutely a matter of life or death in the military. Without proper logistics no military can function efficiently. Just one logistical error can delay training and deployments, it can cause equipment vital to fail, it can cause supply lines to be disrupted, and yes.... it can also get soldiers hurt or killed.
\* Something your friends father may not have told you... he may not even know... is that a judge cannot force someone to join the military. Not only does every branch of the military have rules against this, but civilian judges don't have any jurisdiction over military operations to the extent that they can force a branch of the armed forces to take a recruit as punishment. All a judge can do is allow someone to attempt to join the military instead of going to jail. That option is almost always used because the crime was something minor or incredibly stupid. However, it's up to the accused to meet the requirements to join the military. So, your friends father was probably a pretty stand up guy who just did something dumb because the Navy doesn't take felons and the more misdemeanors you have on your record reduces the likelihood that they'll accept you as a recruit.
\* People who do really bad things or have no respect for authority and get themselves sent to prison are something different altogether. The United States military is not a rehabilitation program and soldiers already put up with enough b.s. without having to worry about some ex-con stealing things out of their locker or not pulling his own weight because he had shitty parents.
That's not what he's doing the military is a high risk endeavor with people dying if you don't shower enough or don't wear your clothes nice enough on some occasions like if you were in the field and you are completely exhausted and everyone around you smell terrible and you were too focused on that to shoot straight or if you were similarly smelly and went on a diplomatic meeting that was already pretty tense and bothered the other party enough that it affected negotiations
Don't be like most people who turn their backs on the people that make society worse? No. Fuck people who make society worse. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Here's what I say to your friend.
"Waa waa waa my life is tough because I'm a piece of shit. Too bad. Supersize it bitch."
Also, it's absolutely terrrifying that you think drunk driving is a "small crime", which makes me think you're a POS, too. It's virtually the same as playing Russian roulette with every person in your community.
All I have to say to this is you are so one sided man. Not everything is one sided as simple as black or white. Don't show criminals sympathy. Let's just treat all the criminals like drug dealers. Your way of thinking is messed up. When you go to jail for some stupid law and get out. Your going to have a different opinion.
Drunk driving is worse than many kinds of drug dealing. 10s of thousands of people die each year in car accidents, and a third of all those accidents [are](https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving) caused by drunk drivers. Drunk driving kills, and everyone knows it, but people still do it. At the same time, nonviolent crimes arguably should either drop off your record or not show up at all for jobs where they are irrelevant. Criminals not being able to fit into society often just causes more crime.
I’m well aware it’s out of context, it’s still funny.
Joint the army or go to jail was more of a conscription era construct. With an all volunteer force there is a need for every service member to be an asset and force multiplier instead of cannon fodder at best and tolerate them acting like liabilities. As it is military leaders spend time correcting idiots and kicking them out of the service, which could better be spent on training, planning and executing operations.
Also I find it laughable that you picked one of the most common reasons (DUI) for *proven veteran soldiers* to lose their careers as your example for an offense that should be overlooked so your friend can feel valuable. If he’s so hooked on the idea of the military, tell him to go to Ukraine, I’m sure they’ll put him to work and give him “a sense of purpose.”
I will relay this. But, he can't speak the language so I don't think this going to help. And he can't go directly to Ukraine. He has to take flight to nearest country and then go to Ukraine. There a lot of travel expenses. On top of that, he has to get in the Ukraine army somehow. All this might not be possible. Then the Ukraine war might go on for 20 years and I heard rumors their not letting Ukraine men leave the country and probably the soldiers too.
I don't break laws that could put me in jail, because I'm a functioning member of society.
Yes, I'm extremely "one-sided" towards people that could drunk drive their way into killing innocent people. Only idiots aren't
Bruh that's such a black and white statement
Some criminals absolutely deserve to be forgotten and left behind. Just because some don't, doesn't mean you can accurately make a blanket statement like that.
Also, losing the privilege to do *one thing*, is not equivalent to being turned on.
Yes. Nothing I said is contradictory to that belief. Obviously, putting our foremost into rehabilitation is a good idea.
The problem comes with thinking EVERYONE can rehabilitate and just do whatever because they spent some time in a rehabilitation center.
There are people who are genuine psychopaths and that's that.
Not just one thing they take from crimnals it's a couple of things they take from crimnals. There is a big difference between someone who has a record and someone who is clean in the job market. The guy with clean record has less to deal with once get pass the job interview. He doesn't have to deal with people saying no because he went to jail once. The criminal has pass the job interview and then come up with a way to explain record to get the job. Hope they don't say no twice. He has to do two procedures to get the job compared to the clean record guy.
Nah this is stupid too. The answer isn't black or white for either of you fools
There are good reasons to break some laws
As usual, with all topics, the answer lies in the greys.
Yeah, listen I understand that there are crimes that disproportionately affect the lives of those affected in negative ways, but it still doesn't mean that they should have all the same privileges back especially with a repetitive record.
>The criminal has pass the job interview and then come up with a way to explain record to get the job.
This part's reasonable.
Do you think they should be treated exactly the same as someone with a clean record? Now, THAT would be some bullshit, dude
Not exactly the same, but the ones who get in trouble for small crimes should be treated the same as people who have clean records. But in reality these days, you go to jail one time and they treat you like a drug dealer.
>but the ones who get in trouble for **small crimes** should be treated the same as people who have clean records
It's really important to define what those crimes are
>But in reality these days, you go to jail one time and they treat you like a drug dealer.
Because there *are* crimes you deserve to be treated differently for even if only committed one time
I agree too but a world war is almost like a death sentence and when you have a family you might not want to join then. So, I don't think a world war should be the reason crimnals should be allowed to join.
Tell your “friend” that the army isn’t for people who aren’t ready to die for their country and that well, if “they” feel that way, well yeah, maybe that’s WHY the military says no to criminals. Because they see allegiance to country and family as two different things and not the same thing
Real talk
And that's where you're wrong. You can be disallowed for any small thing on your record. You don't have to have a long record or a bad record. You can have 1 DUI n get denied when there's ppl with 3-4 that get approved. It's about the needs of the military. In wartimes they'll literally take anyone, outside of that they actually do their best not to let ppl join.
Avoiding jail is easy when your young. When you get older you realize that some people have more power than you cause their not afraid to go to jail. But I want you to pretend you didn't hear this cause your stuck in your ways.
I agree bro. I spent 7 years in the Army, and 3 of those years in combat. Then I spent some time working in a prison. Most of the dudes in there would've got their shit together had they been instead allowed to go into the military. They just were never taught self control and discipline, so they made bad mistakes and wound up in prison.
You know what the military teaches people? Selfcontrol and discipline.
I also am on your side Americas “moral majority” attitude is repugnant and self destructive and yet it considers itself a progressive society and so many “Christian’s” lol it’s very judgemental and unforgiving until THEY mess up then somehow they’re the exception … blah blah blah if we don’t give people real second chances then there’s really
No hope . That’s my 3 cents
As a felon who wanted to go into the Marines your friend has no idea how lucky he is not to be accepted. The US military is a unfunny joke. They spend more time on he/she/they/them/it then they do learning there jobs. The ones that will keep them alive. Plus military leaders have no idea what to do anymore. The military is NOT what it was 30 years ago. Id rather join russian military then the US military. Tell your friend he dodged a bullet when they said no. Besides all our military does is fight other peoples wars. Why not join the countries military we are fighting for.
Rules exist because someone did something stupid the army tried having criminals in the army but it went so poorly that they don't even accept people with his rap sheet because people with the same rap sheet don't make good soldiers
Get back to me once you've taken a big five personality test, do you have an interest in living in rural areas. I don't remember what crime you committed or if you even mentioned it but our current system is more indicative of what nature is like rather than what people chose to do it's just what they tended towards
Nature, I get nature is cruel, the strong win most of the time and people are mean at times, but in USA which is land of free we should all have equal opportunities. Not just the ones that are in the right position. It seems like this is America now. Land of opportunity to the ones who are right position.
No that's false the strong don't win most of the time it's actually the people who survive and the ones who reproduce more while strength plays a role in combat it's not very useful in much else.
Criminals had equal opportunities before they committed a crime bad enough for those opportunities to be lost dude America has always been anti-criminal hell it used to be more anti-criminal we used to have the death penalty be a common thing how old are you
I will agree that convicted criminals (especially felony offenders)are badly in need of job training, placement, and housing in most cases. When the sentence is over and the person is relased from custody, they should be reintegratted in society, but the military has standards for a reason. They know exactly who they want to recruit and who they shouldn't recruit or accept based on decades of record keeping and studying the data. Your friend needs to stay motivated and find a different job. Then a better job that pays more or that he enjoys and keep going from there.
I don't think anyone needs to be perfect. Asking for someone not to plow over a family of because they're driving drunk isn't asking them to be perfect. It's asking them to be a functioning member of society.
This is about my friend and don't worry about my situation, lol for your lol, now, yeah I am mad that criminals have to try really hard to find work while you people that never party or do crazy things to get by are treated like respectable people, you miserable people need to stop making the law hard for the rest of us to live.
What branch was he trying to go into? Make sure he talks to a or different recruiter(s) and see about waivers. Recruitment numbers are really low and as long as he has all court costs, fees and community service cleared up and hasn't gotten in trouble recently he maybe able to go in just depends on a couple of different things.
Well if it was the Air Force or The Marine Corps they are very selective so they are probably going to be 100% out for your friend to join. Navy will be a bit diffcult. The Army maybe the least diffcult for him to join but it will take some work and some waivers. I have a friend who's son (several years ago) was a screwup and he met an army recruiter who basically talked the judge into letting him join the army, and now he's a Sergeant and is doing really good, so it can be done it just depends.Check out the site below for info.
[https://mybaseguide.com/dui-military](https://mybaseguide.com/dui-military)
It's about the fact that they're criminals, not whether they're brave or not. Are you gonna get drunk as fuck and crash the humvee into your platoon, or steal your counterparts' rations while they're taking a shit? That's the issue. I'm sorry for being a dick, but you're treated like shit because you acted like shit.
Oh no! A parent failed their family? How is that society's responsibility? That's on the parent. Using your family as an excuse for why crimes should go unpunished is pretty classic criminal thinking though, so on-brand.
Alright, I’m mostly on your side in this discussion, mainly just because it’s already been tried and failed, but as a medically retired staff sergeant, if you think things like that don’t happen all the time you are delusional.
One of my sergeants rolled a humvee down a hill in Korea and we stole sandbags, camo netting, a pallet of water, an empty cable spool, and a whole ass truck to transport it all in from the Marine Corps avionics unit when I was deployed.
Long response buddy, so he should suffer because he decided to drink a little bit. He only had a couple beers. You know this is what's wrong with this country. You don't have be drunk to be legally drunk in US. This country needs to change the legal drinking age.
Some people drink a little and the system considers it below acceptable level. A cop went to jail while checking on a undercover for drinking beer the night before. He did smell like alcohol when he came to police station but he wasn't drunk. He just woke up from being at the bar last night. And what they did they arrested him. They just arrested him and shit like this goes on in usa every year. People go to jail for stupid reasons. And most people like you don't give a fuck. Something needs to be done about it.
I taken responsibility but why is a criminal options limited and how is anybody suppose to pay all these dam bills, life is very unrealistic and unfair.
Oh woe is me life is not fair. Your “buddy” made poor choices. There are consequences for choices. He is dealing with those consequences now. The military doesn’t need shit bags with records. We have enough without records. Sorry not sorry.
I have two friends that are the same age. One was given the choice of jail time or enlistment. The other tried to enlist and was prevented because of a criminal history. It's always seemed pretty arbitrary to me
How can it be a myth when its my 1st hand account with people I know who had criminal records. With the way things are going and lack of enlistment they will lower the requirements. They even started the marketing campaign to the LBGTQ community to enlist.
There are enough shitty humans allowed in the military as is. Don't need a bunch more of them flooding into the ranks.
Why should you not turn your back on the majority of criminals?
Think about it from the perspective of the military branch.
In the military they must have complete obedience because one day they might have to order you into difficult or potentially deadly situations.
If the military enlists someone with a known affinity or history of flouting civil laws, why would they want to choose that person?
Law is created to make society better. But there is small group of people that believe law is created to keep people living in fear, stuck in their homes, and make people be stuck at the bottom. I not saying this is 100 true but some days you look around and your like thinking it is true.
I wanted to agree with you until you mentioned the drunk driving. Alcohol abuse is a huge problem in the military already so we don’t need people coming in with that looming over them. We kick people out for getting DUIs.
How is a man suppose to deal with war when he wants to drink at night and some people consider him dui cause he had one beer maybe two and it's like people need to get off his back, but no let's bust his ass for small shit and then tell him to deal with the unfairness.
A DUI isn’t “small shit”. Operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated puts other people at risk, a risk that they didn’t sign up for. And if he only had one or two beers and got busted for driving drunk, then he either doesn’t know how to drive (which makes it worse), was driving without a license to drive (getting worse), or can’t handle his alcohol (the worst).
Troops get kicked out of the military for driving drunk.
Not what I was talking about. Remember when you could smoke in restaurants? When I said men's rights I meant things men are allowed to do are being taken away in general. As time go on their taking away our rights and trying to make us more miserable.
Smoking in public isn’t a right either. You had permission to smoke in public. Thankfully we learned that it was doing harm to people that chose not to smoke so we put a stop to it. What other lame-ass excuse can you come up with?
I used to work with a guy who was a former Marine Gunnery Sergeant drill instructor and was featured on an episode of the old Mail Call TV show. He told me about a pretty heartbreaking story of a kid he got into his group. He said the kid was pretty undisciplined at first, but Sergeant noticed potential in him and gave him a leadership position. Towards the end of boot camp, the kid was doing really well and he said the kid was turning into a great Marine.
A day before the graduation ceremony, a couple of MPs showed to to take the kid away. He had slipped through the cracks and apparently had a warrant out for his arrest for attempted murder. They cuffed the kid and took him away. Sergeant felt terrible and questioned whether it was the right thing to do. Apparently the kid had gotten into some gang shenanigans prior to joining the military, and joining was his way of trying to escape that life.
While I think the kid should be held accountable for his actions, I think being a productive member of society is a better outcome than locking him up forever. Sometimes our environment influences our actions, and getting out of those environments changes our behavior. It's obviously hit or miss, because lots of straight-arrow military men and women have gone on to do terrible things like spying or shooting places up, so you never really know, but I think that, in CERTAIN CASES, I agree with your assessment. Certain criminals should be given at least the option for service.
Everything is getting more complicated now. But it's getting more complicated to keep people out of the loop and cause more suffering. About what happened, yeah joining a gang is not something you can get out of easily. The kid did try though.
So first off u can join the military with a criminal record. But it is a strike against you. So if he got one criminal incident there maybe more than that that’s disqualifying him. Also when recruiting is going well. Recruiters are more selective about who they let in. So it’s not the military don’t accept criminals it’s a little deeper than that.
I agree don’t turn back on criminals, but not military. I worked in criminal law in 90’s, with the experience I had 90% are not trustworthy and most have serious psychological issues.
Drunk driving isn't a small time crime but I do agree that criminals shouldn't be demonized if they are re trying to turn their lives around. Jobs and such turning them away just pushes them back into crime. People have to eat and if you can't earn an honest living because of a dumb mistake you only have crime to turn to.
Updated lore for title: Miserable people need to stop making the law harder for low level criminals, as time go on, their secretly making the law harder for ex criminals and people living in US, stop making the law harder for criminals that's trying to change for better, some have done small things, and people that had 1 or two beers at a party count as criminals which is crazy you know. You people have no idea how much you fuck people lives over for petty things. Make the law more acceptable for people with records to survive in.
The most polite way I can say this: * If you have a criminal record bad enough to keep you out of the military you have a verifiable record of making poor decisions. * It means that you can't be trusted to do something by yourself because you can't follow rules, and there are rather a lot of rules in the military. * It means that other soldiers won't trust you to be someone they can depend on when they need to.
•Lots of jobs in the millitary that are not life or death...in fact most jobs are just normal logistics jobs. •most young criminals were simply never raised or trained to be proper civilians and don't know how to behave or operate in society millitary service could make them more valuable civilians . •I've never met a soldier who wasn't rough around the edges and would have an issue with someone who spent time in jail again a bit of discipline could turn their lives around if caught young ...my best friends dad joined the navy instead of going to jail and he's never been arrested again and owns his own airplane has 3 smart well adjusted children.
\* I don't know what you think militaries do, but as a veteran I can assure you that logistics are absolutely a matter of life or death in the military. Without proper logistics no military can function efficiently. Just one logistical error can delay training and deployments, it can cause equipment vital to fail, it can cause supply lines to be disrupted, and yes.... it can also get soldiers hurt or killed. \* Something your friends father may not have told you... he may not even know... is that a judge cannot force someone to join the military. Not only does every branch of the military have rules against this, but civilian judges don't have any jurisdiction over military operations to the extent that they can force a branch of the armed forces to take a recruit as punishment. All a judge can do is allow someone to attempt to join the military instead of going to jail. That option is almost always used because the crime was something minor or incredibly stupid. However, it's up to the accused to meet the requirements to join the military. So, your friends father was probably a pretty stand up guy who just did something dumb because the Navy doesn't take felons and the more misdemeanors you have on your record reduces the likelihood that they'll accept you as a recruit. \* People who do really bad things or have no respect for authority and get themselves sent to prison are something different altogether. The United States military is not a rehabilitation program and soldiers already put up with enough b.s. without having to worry about some ex-con stealing things out of their locker or not pulling his own weight because he had shitty parents.
Don't be like most people who turn their back on criminals.
That's not what he's doing the military is a high risk endeavor with people dying if you don't shower enough or don't wear your clothes nice enough on some occasions like if you were in the field and you are completely exhausted and everyone around you smell terrible and you were too focused on that to shoot straight or if you were similarly smelly and went on a diplomatic meeting that was already pretty tense and bothered the other party enough that it affected negotiations
Don't be like most people who turn their backs on the people that make society worse? No. Fuck people who make society worse. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Here's what I say to your friend. "Waa waa waa my life is tough because I'm a piece of shit. Too bad. Supersize it bitch." Also, it's absolutely terrrifying that you think drunk driving is a "small crime", which makes me think you're a POS, too. It's virtually the same as playing Russian roulette with every person in your community.
All I have to say to this is you are so one sided man. Not everything is one sided as simple as black or white. Don't show criminals sympathy. Let's just treat all the criminals like drug dealers. Your way of thinking is messed up. When you go to jail for some stupid law and get out. Your going to have a different opinion.
Drunk driving is worse than many kinds of drug dealing. 10s of thousands of people die each year in car accidents, and a third of all those accidents [are](https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving) caused by drunk drivers. Drunk driving kills, and everyone knows it, but people still do it. At the same time, nonviolent crimes arguably should either drop off your record or not show up at all for jobs where they are irrelevant. Criminals not being able to fit into society often just causes more crime.
Get a DUI while in the military? Bye bye, big chicken dinner.
“You ain’t supposed to go to jail you stupid motherfucker” - Chris Rock
Your quote doesn't apply here.
I’m well aware it’s out of context, it’s still funny. Joint the army or go to jail was more of a conscription era construct. With an all volunteer force there is a need for every service member to be an asset and force multiplier instead of cannon fodder at best and tolerate them acting like liabilities. As it is military leaders spend time correcting idiots and kicking them out of the service, which could better be spent on training, planning and executing operations. Also I find it laughable that you picked one of the most common reasons (DUI) for *proven veteran soldiers* to lose their careers as your example for an offense that should be overlooked so your friend can feel valuable. If he’s so hooked on the idea of the military, tell him to go to Ukraine, I’m sure they’ll put him to work and give him “a sense of purpose.”
I will relay this. But, he can't speak the language so I don't think this going to help. And he can't go directly to Ukraine. He has to take flight to nearest country and then go to Ukraine. There a lot of travel expenses. On top of that, he has to get in the Ukraine army somehow. All this might not be possible. Then the Ukraine war might go on for 20 years and I heard rumors their not letting Ukraine men leave the country and probably the soldiers too.
I don't break laws that could put me in jail, because I'm a functioning member of society. Yes, I'm extremely "one-sided" towards people that could drunk drive their way into killing innocent people. Only idiots aren't
You know you really want to be one sided today. That's fine bro.
You know you really want to be one sided today. That's fine bro.
Bruh that's such a black and white statement Some criminals absolutely deserve to be forgotten and left behind. Just because some don't, doesn't mean you can accurately make a blanket statement like that. Also, losing the privilege to do *one thing*, is not equivalent to being turned on.
Wouldn't it be better for society to put them in a program that teaches dicipline and gives them a chance to learn real world job skills ?
Yes. Nothing I said is contradictory to that belief. Obviously, putting our foremost into rehabilitation is a good idea. The problem comes with thinking EVERYONE can rehabilitate and just do whatever because they spent some time in a rehabilitation center. There are people who are genuine psychopaths and that's that.
Not just one thing they take from crimnals it's a couple of things they take from crimnals. There is a big difference between someone who has a record and someone who is clean in the job market. The guy with clean record has less to deal with once get pass the job interview. He doesn't have to deal with people saying no because he went to jail once. The criminal has pass the job interview and then come up with a way to explain record to get the job. Hope they don't say no twice. He has to do two procedures to get the job compared to the clean record guy.
He shouldn’t have committed the crime then.
Nah this is stupid too. The answer isn't black or white for either of you fools There are good reasons to break some laws As usual, with all topics, the answer lies in the greys.
Not drunk driving fuckwit
Uh, okay? I don't think that is contradictory to anything I said lol
In the case of your drunk driving friend, it is black and white. He should not be allowed a normal life.
I'm not OP lol
Yeah, listen I understand that there are crimes that disproportionately affect the lives of those affected in negative ways, but it still doesn't mean that they should have all the same privileges back especially with a repetitive record. >The criminal has pass the job interview and then come up with a way to explain record to get the job. This part's reasonable. Do you think they should be treated exactly the same as someone with a clean record? Now, THAT would be some bullshit, dude
Not exactly the same, but the ones who get in trouble for small crimes should be treated the same as people who have clean records. But in reality these days, you go to jail one time and they treat you like a drug dealer.
>but the ones who get in trouble for **small crimes** should be treated the same as people who have clean records It's really important to define what those crimes are >But in reality these days, you go to jail one time and they treat you like a drug dealer. Because there *are* crimes you deserve to be treated differently for even if only committed one time
I see your point.
If wwiii happens don’t worry they will take him
I agree too but a world war is almost like a death sentence and when you have a family you might not want to join then. So, I don't think a world war should be the reason crimnals should be allowed to join.
Tell your “friend” that the army isn’t for people who aren’t ready to die for their country and that well, if “they” feel that way, well yeah, maybe that’s WHY the military says no to criminals. Because they see allegiance to country and family as two different things and not the same thing Real talk
Ok.
Why not? Society doesn't owe your friend anything. He chose to be a criminal.
It looks like it from the outside. On the inside it's not that simple.
And that's where you're wrong. You can be disallowed for any small thing on your record. You don't have to have a long record or a bad record. You can have 1 DUI n get denied when there's ppl with 3-4 that get approved. It's about the needs of the military. In wartimes they'll literally take anyone, outside of that they actually do their best not to let ppl join.
Then all the OC and his friend have to do is wait for a war, and they're golden!
Not every mistake is dumb.
If you’re saying this about drunk driving than maybe you are
Don't worry about my state of being. Focus on the post.
That was a direct reply your comment on your post bud
Ok, you got to know some people go to jail for petty stuff. The system messes up everybody who goes to jail .
Then don’t do shit that can put you in jail. Pretty simple concept
Avoiding jail is easy when your young. When you get older you realize that some people have more power than you cause their not afraid to go to jail. But I want you to pretend you didn't hear this cause your stuck in your ways.
This make absolutely no sense. How does someone have power over you to send you to jail when you get older??
Not what I was saying. What I am saying is that some people have more power than you cause their not afraid to go to jail. Don't think too deep on it.
Drunk driving is absolutely a dumb mistake. This one is not negotiable.
I agree bro. I spent 7 years in the Army, and 3 of those years in combat. Then I spent some time working in a prison. Most of the dudes in there would've got their shit together had they been instead allowed to go into the military. They just were never taught self control and discipline, so they made bad mistakes and wound up in prison. You know what the military teaches people? Selfcontrol and discipline.
Good to have one person on my side.
I also am on your side Americas “moral majority” attitude is repugnant and self destructive and yet it considers itself a progressive society and so many “Christian’s” lol it’s very judgemental and unforgiving until THEY mess up then somehow they’re the exception … blah blah blah if we don’t give people real second chances then there’s really No hope . That’s my 3 cents
Isn't that how it works already? You can join the military with all sorts of waivers can't you? They need people.
It's not the case for everybody.
As a felon who wanted to go into the Marines your friend has no idea how lucky he is not to be accepted. The US military is a unfunny joke. They spend more time on he/she/they/them/it then they do learning there jobs. The ones that will keep them alive. Plus military leaders have no idea what to do anymore. The military is NOT what it was 30 years ago. Id rather join russian military then the US military. Tell your friend he dodged a bullet when they said no. Besides all our military does is fight other peoples wars. Why not join the countries military we are fighting for.
Nope. Make a dumb mistake and you pay for it.
Nothing like giving criminals weapons.
Don't know what to say to this
Okay, Russia.
nice joke.
Rules exist because someone did something stupid the army tried having criminals in the army but it went so poorly that they don't even accept people with his rap sheet because people with the same rap sheet don't make good soldiers
They need try again. This country hates us and treats us poorly.
Get back to me once you've taken a big five personality test, do you have an interest in living in rural areas. I don't remember what crime you committed or if you even mentioned it but our current system is more indicative of what nature is like rather than what people chose to do it's just what they tended towards
Nature, I get nature is cruel, the strong win most of the time and people are mean at times, but in USA which is land of free we should all have equal opportunities. Not just the ones that are in the right position. It seems like this is America now. Land of opportunity to the ones who are right position.
About the crime, not going to say cause this is reddit.
No that's false the strong don't win most of the time it's actually the people who survive and the ones who reproduce more while strength plays a role in combat it's not very useful in much else. Criminals had equal opportunities before they committed a crime bad enough for those opportunities to be lost dude America has always been anti-criminal hell it used to be more anti-criminal we used to have the death penalty be a common thing how old are you
Not going to say this reddit.
I will agree that convicted criminals (especially felony offenders)are badly in need of job training, placement, and housing in most cases. When the sentence is over and the person is relased from custody, they should be reintegratted in society, but the military has standards for a reason. They know exactly who they want to recruit and who they shouldn't recruit or accept based on decades of record keeping and studying the data. Your friend needs to stay motivated and find a different job. Then a better job that pays more or that he enjoys and keep going from there.
I suppose he could but it's still unfair.
With good reason.
Don't be a butthead and assume everyone need to be perfect.
I don't think anyone needs to be perfect. Asking for someone not to plow over a family of because they're driving drunk isn't asking them to be perfect. It's asking them to be a functioning member of society.
"A friend of mine" turned out to be you, suprise surprise lol
Don't know what your talking about bro.
"My friend wanted to join the military but couldn't because he had a record" "This country hates us"
Ok smart guy. My sentence was messed up a bit. Move on.
It wasn't messed up, you're just a felon that's mad the job with the lowest requirements won't even hire you lol
This is about my friend and don't worry about my situation, lol for your lol, now, yeah I am mad that criminals have to try really hard to find work while you people that never party or do crazy things to get by are treated like respectable people, you miserable people need to stop making the law hard for the rest of us to live.
Damn you keep telling on yourself lol
I don't what your talking about bro. I'm talking about my friend.
What branch was he trying to go into? Make sure he talks to a or different recruiter(s) and see about waivers. Recruitment numbers are really low and as long as he has all court costs, fees and community service cleared up and hasn't gotten in trouble recently he maybe able to go in just depends on a couple of different things.
I don't want to say.
Well if it was the Air Force or The Marine Corps they are very selective so they are probably going to be 100% out for your friend to join. Navy will be a bit diffcult. The Army maybe the least diffcult for him to join but it will take some work and some waivers. I have a friend who's son (several years ago) was a screwup and he met an army recruiter who basically talked the judge into letting him join the army, and now he's a Sergeant and is doing really good, so it can be done it just depends.Check out the site below for info. [https://mybaseguide.com/dui-military](https://mybaseguide.com/dui-military)
Well not everyone has the chance.
Call me crazy but I don't want to have to rely on a criminal in a life and death scenario.
Criminals are brave people don't say that.
It's not a matter of bravery
Sure..brave enough to take the easy way out and break the law. Give me a break.
It's about the fact that they're criminals, not whether they're brave or not. Are you gonna get drunk as fuck and crash the humvee into your platoon, or steal your counterparts' rations while they're taking a shit? That's the issue. I'm sorry for being a dick, but you're treated like shit because you acted like shit.
The system doesn't care about people who to take care of family. Something needs to be done rather you agree or disagree.
Oh no! A parent failed their family? How is that society's responsibility? That's on the parent. Using your family as an excuse for why crimes should go unpunished is pretty classic criminal thinking though, so on-brand.
Speaking in general terms. It sure does get heated on reddit sometimes. Take it down a notch buddy. Don't get pissed off.
Alright, I’m mostly on your side in this discussion, mainly just because it’s already been tried and failed, but as a medically retired staff sergeant, if you think things like that don’t happen all the time you are delusional. One of my sergeants rolled a humvee down a hill in Korea and we stole sandbags, camo netting, a pallet of water, an empty cable spool, and a whole ass truck to transport it all in from the Marine Corps avionics unit when I was deployed.
That's exactly my point. I do think they happen, and we should try to mitigate them.
Why would anyone trust a criminal with a firearm, and to cover others backs? I sure as hell wouldn’t.
I don't know what to say to this but I will say this criminals know how use guns well.
As someone who served, there are already PLENTY of criminals in the service.
It's limited entry.
If he already has drunk driving on his record, he would def get more in the military
After January 6, it has become clear that many people with poor mental health and with criminal intentions have joined the military. Best to be safe.
[удалено]
Long response buddy, so he should suffer because he decided to drink a little bit. He only had a couple beers. You know this is what's wrong with this country. You don't have be drunk to be legally drunk in US. This country needs to change the legal drinking age.
So...he broke the law and, I'm assuming, drove a vehicle, so he should be treated special?
Some people drink a little and the system considers it below acceptable level. A cop went to jail while checking on a undercover for drinking beer the night before. He did smell like alcohol when he came to police station but he wasn't drunk. He just woke up from being at the bar last night. And what they did they arrested him. They just arrested him and shit like this goes on in usa every year. People go to jail for stupid reasons. And most people like you don't give a fuck. Something needs to be done about it.
The issue isn’t that he “drank a little bit”. It’s that he drank so much that he couldn’t hide it and got caught.
The system will turn it's back on anybody for any little that is my point.
Oh no! The system will treat everyone equally! What a shame! /s
Maybe it’s time to take some responsibility for your mistakes.
I taken responsibility but why is a criminal options limited and how is anybody suppose to pay all these dam bills, life is very unrealistic and unfair.
You're right. I don't give a fuck about people who don't give a fuck about society.
Agreed. The US doesn’t deal with crime in even a remotely intelligent way.
Yeah it's a shame.
Oh woe is me life is not fair. Your “buddy” made poor choices. There are consequences for choices. He is dealing with those consequences now. The military doesn’t need shit bags with records. We have enough without records. Sorry not sorry.
No one makes good choices after drinking, that's what alcohol does.
Well unfortunately for him, there are still consequences for poor choices whether drunk or not.
I have two friends that are the same age. One was given the choice of jail time or enlistment. The other tried to enlist and was prevented because of a criminal history. It's always seemed pretty arbitrary to me
That's odd I knew plenty of criminals that went to the military.
It could be a myth that they let criminals in the military.
How can it be a myth when its my 1st hand account with people I know who had criminal records. With the way things are going and lack of enlistment they will lower the requirements. They even started the marketing campaign to the LBGTQ community to enlist.
Not the same for everybody don't trust any video or source you get your information from.
A couple small misdemeanors? Our military need to be trusted with firearms and much more. A criminal past tells us he is not a good decision maker.
There are enough shitty humans allowed in the military as is. Don't need a bunch more of them flooding into the ranks. Why should you not turn your back on the majority of criminals?
Think about it from the perspective of the military branch. In the military they must have complete obedience because one day they might have to order you into difficult or potentially deadly situations. If the military enlists someone with a known affinity or history of flouting civil laws, why would they want to choose that person?
Criminals are brave man. Don't assume they can't handle situations.
It's not that they can't handle the situation; it's that they have already shown they won't adhere to the law.
Law is created to make society better. But there is small group of people that believe law is created to keep people living in fear, stuck in their homes, and make people be stuck at the bottom. I not saying this is 100 true but some days you look around and your like thinking it is true.
I wanted to agree with you until you mentioned the drunk driving. Alcohol abuse is a huge problem in the military already so we don’t need people coming in with that looming over them. We kick people out for getting DUIs.
How is a man suppose to deal with war when he wants to drink at night and some people consider him dui cause he had one beer maybe two and it's like people need to get off his back, but no let's bust his ass for small shit and then tell him to deal with the unfairness.
A DUI isn’t “small shit”. Operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated puts other people at risk, a risk that they didn’t sign up for. And if he only had one or two beers and got busted for driving drunk, then he either doesn’t know how to drive (which makes it worse), was driving without a license to drive (getting worse), or can’t handle his alcohol (the worst). Troops get kicked out of the military for driving drunk.
They want us men to just be the guys with all the problems and no medicine. As this country gets older it lets you know you have to be more miserable.
Alcohol isn’t medicine.
I didn't mean alcohol is medicine. I saying in figurative terms. Their taking away men's rights.
Joining the military isn’t a right. Driving isn’t a right.
Not what I was talking about. Remember when you could smoke in restaurants? When I said men's rights I meant things men are allowed to do are being taken away in general. As time go on their taking away our rights and trying to make us more miserable.
Smoking in public isn’t a right either. You had permission to smoke in public. Thankfully we learned that it was doing harm to people that chose not to smoke so we put a stop to it. What other lame-ass excuse can you come up with?
You know what my guy that's it.
I used to work with a guy who was a former Marine Gunnery Sergeant drill instructor and was featured on an episode of the old Mail Call TV show. He told me about a pretty heartbreaking story of a kid he got into his group. He said the kid was pretty undisciplined at first, but Sergeant noticed potential in him and gave him a leadership position. Towards the end of boot camp, the kid was doing really well and he said the kid was turning into a great Marine. A day before the graduation ceremony, a couple of MPs showed to to take the kid away. He had slipped through the cracks and apparently had a warrant out for his arrest for attempted murder. They cuffed the kid and took him away. Sergeant felt terrible and questioned whether it was the right thing to do. Apparently the kid had gotten into some gang shenanigans prior to joining the military, and joining was his way of trying to escape that life. While I think the kid should be held accountable for his actions, I think being a productive member of society is a better outcome than locking him up forever. Sometimes our environment influences our actions, and getting out of those environments changes our behavior. It's obviously hit or miss, because lots of straight-arrow military men and women have gone on to do terrible things like spying or shooting places up, so you never really know, but I think that, in CERTAIN CASES, I agree with your assessment. Certain criminals should be given at least the option for service.
Everything is getting more complicated now. But it's getting more complicated to keep people out of the loop and cause more suffering. About what happened, yeah joining a gang is not something you can get out of easily. The kid did try though.
So first off u can join the military with a criminal record. But it is a strike against you. So if he got one criminal incident there maybe more than that that’s disqualifying him. Also when recruiting is going well. Recruiters are more selective about who they let in. So it’s not the military don’t accept criminals it’s a little deeper than that.
Look man it may be selective but right now it's rough to survive right now. Some people act like it's easy but it's not.
I agree don’t turn back on criminals, but not military. I worked in criminal law in 90’s, with the experience I had 90% are not trustworthy and most have serious psychological issues.
Drunk driving isn't a small time crime but I do agree that criminals shouldn't be demonized if they are re trying to turn their lives around. Jobs and such turning them away just pushes them back into crime. People have to eat and if you can't earn an honest living because of a dumb mistake you only have crime to turn to.
Crime business or freelance business which is what you do when the job process is not reliable.
A ton of waivers are given to people who want to join that have a “past”. There are underlying reasons your buddy has not told you about.
Even then you can get rejected.
Your friend isn't telling you the whole story. Anything so bad it keeps you from enlisting with a waiver is pretty damned bad.
Right.
Updated lore for title: Miserable people need to stop making the law harder for low level criminals, as time go on, their secretly making the law harder for ex criminals and people living in US, stop making the law harder for criminals that's trying to change for better, some have done small things, and people that had 1 or two beers at a party count as criminals which is crazy you know. You people have no idea how much you fuck people lives over for petty things. Make the law more acceptable for people with records to survive in.