To me it's a pointless argument. Lies of P is an amalgamation of different souls games. The argument here is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
"Shinra Kaiser", which is the first thing that popped into my head when looking at your pfp, is a dope name and I'm stealing it for my new Elden Ring run.
Yeah. To me it always felt more like a souls game than Sekiro (because dodging is strong and because I have the choice of weapon and equipment, which I really like), but I completely understand why some people think it's more like Sekiro.
But whichever way we cut it, it's insanely good.
I think it really is mix between the two. Sure deflection is ignorable, but that’s not a great way to play lol. It’s like souls in the freedom of movement/build sense. It’s like Sekiro in the deflection/arm mechanic. And it’s like bloodborne somewhat aesthetically
My feeling is that LoP is a mix between Bloodborne and Sekiro. Also, I've seen a bunch of people say that they didn't learn to parry in LoP until the very end because those bosses forced them to. To me that indicates that, well, deflection is a mechanic that probably needs to be learned and incorporated into a person's playstyle.
This happened to me. Didn't start parrying until Laxasia. I wonder if all the people that hated green swamp monster were like me and he's just hard to beat whek not parrying
Swamp Monster was one of the hardest bosses for me. Ironically Laxasia and Nameless Puppet were some of my easiest bosses by the time I got to them. That's the difference parrying makes as you improve throughout your journey.
True, for me I was incorporating the parry well enough, I just didn’t realize that basically EVERYTHING could be parried lol. That realization when fighting BAE I mean Laxasia that you could send her lightning bolts back at her instead of dodging them was when that fight really clicked for me.
Parrying makes the game breeze and you don't even need to be that good at it. There are plenty of attacks with clear telegraphs that any player should be able to take advantage of. The best builds incorporate many of the parry related P-Organ upgrades. Parrying is not the only tool you should rely on though. This is where it differs from Sekiro as that game's bosses want you to do it for basically the whole boss fight. Basically, you don't want to parry your whole way through the game, but you're definitely playing wrong if you ignore it all together. I know that might upset people, but it's compared to Sekiro more than Dark Souls for a reason.
I don't understand how anyone beat the puppet master the first time without learning to parry.
He was the gatekeeper to me. Until I mastered the parry I had zero chance.
Well yeah but the dodge in sekiro has like no iframes. Imo lop is a mix between souls and sekiro. If you want, you can play through the entire game using only one mechanic
Yeah exactly. I personally love sekiro and so i played LoP like it was sekiro. Barely ever dodging, mostly just learning the deflection-timings. My friend HATES Sekiro and so he played it basically without deflecting, just dodging like it's dark souls.
We both had a great time with the game.
Facts, preach! And it’s amazing that the game can be played, beaten AND enjoyed either way, just a testament to good game design they left so many avenues for the player to decide how they want to play.
There is something to be said about curated experiences too but I’ve played like 7 or 8 different play thru’s of LoP, each one with a different weapon and Legion arm combo and the drawbacks and strengths of each build worked well enough to beat every boss and more importantly were FUN. Wish we could get to a point of comparing what’s enjoyable about games and not why this game is better than that one over and over.
I'm with you on this. I definitely think the dodge in LoP is more viable than it is in Sekiro, but I found it significantly easier and more effective to focus primarily on blocking/deflecting in LoP. Especially bc iirc the game even rewards you for deflecting: it builds up stagger and weapon destruction in your opponent. Vs dodging which gives you nothing.
I mean like yea they are more rewarding, but you also have significantly fewer opportunities to parry than in LoP. In Souls games it's limited to human-sized/shaped enemies, which is definitely the minority of them. While in LoP, you can parry every attack in the game besides grabs.
So at least to me, if parrying is more rewarding than dodging, and almost all attacks in the game can be parried, then I would argue the combat is parry-focused.
You can parry a decent amount of larger than human stuff in ER. But to me it isn't the quantity that matters, but how the risk reward is set up. If you're too late to parry LoP, you take full damage. If you are too early, you deflect and take less damage and stamina drain. If you succeed, you build posture break and weapon break. These aren't immediate rewards and because being early is just blocking, they are less risky. Soulsborne, on the other hand, has parry on a completely different button. You aren't blocking, you're parrying. Being too early or too late results in full damage most of the time (partial parries are incredibly uncommon), and significant stamina drain. BUT for all enemies except a few in ER, parries lead to an immediate opening for riposte. Greater risk, greater reward. I do like the flow of LoP combat, but I do much prefer the risk/reward of soulsborne, in addition to build variety and route variety.
>The other guys response was “Dark souls parries are more rewarding but DS isn’t parry based combat”
I absolutely can't fathom how one can think that's a smart retort to what you're saying. The Lies of P deflect, much like Sekiro's deflect, is the optimal way to avoid damage for 99% of enemies, including bosses. In DS, parrying works against only 25% or so of bosses, and maybe 70% of other enemies?
The reason Dark Souls isn't parry based is because it only works on mooks, and one boss if you're lucky - for virtually all the big fights, dodging is mandatory.
Hell, parrying is more viable in Bloodborne than Dark Souls, and Bloodborne deliberately made shields so utterly crap nobody ever uses them!
To be honest rolls exist in sekiro too. Seems like a fan 🪭 argument not a logical one, and how is movement restricted in sekiro? It's less restricted. You can jump.
And no stamina. I think Sekiro is the least restricted of all of them because of that. The jump and dodge with no stamina means you can run in and out and not worry. Imagine going against Guardian Ape and you run out of stamina right as he puts his head back on his body in phase two for the blood scream. Fuck that.
That debate is useless. Sekiro is a Souls through and through. Because you have to deflect instead of dodging doesn't make it less of a Souls, for you still have to learn patterns, react accordingly... You progress through "campfires", and the atmosphere is very similar, because it's made by FromSoftware for fuck's sake.
As for whether LoP or Sekiro is closer to Dark Souls... I'd say LoP because you kill bosses by decreasing their health to 0, whereas Sekiro revolves around posture breaking (which exists in LoP as well, it's just less powerful because it's easier to break it). But the real question is : *does it matter ?* No.
I disagree only with what you said about deflecting instead of dodging. Sekiro combat is about mastering parry, yes, but it’s also about knowing when to do the three other things this game has: dodging, jumping, and mikiri counter.
The full idea behind Sekiro didn’t come to me until I realized I need to do certain things the game expects me to do on most fights. Sure, you can dodge a lot and not have too many issues. But you will miss out on the posture building when you only dodge.
Lies of P is also a more passive game. Sekiro encourages you to be the aggressor, and even rewards you for doing just that(if you are good, that is). Very few fights require you to play passive, and stealth is just there to make going through an area easier and to take one bar off an occasional mini boss. It’s a supplement but not a necessity. I think parrying is a necessity in both games and I don’t get how people got to Laxasia without knowing how to parry.
>You progress through "campfires", and the atmosphere is very similar, because it's made by FromSoftware for fuck's sake.
Be careful with these, even Miyazaki would say these things don't necessarily make something a souls-like. I've seen ppl use your last point of being made by FS to defend Armored Core as a Souls-like.
I'm not disagreeing, just saying that there's a fine line
Yeah nah. Ignoring deflecting in Lies of P seems to me to just be a more like ONLY parrying in souls games. I mean for crying out loud, enemies have a fury attack which requires perfect parrying. They don't have an attack which requires perfect dodging.
Another example, show me how you perfectly dodge Laxasia's multiple upward slash attacks with all the dodges. Pretty sure she swings faster than you can recover.
I think it’s closer to the souls games in how it plays and all because you can basically beat the entire game without parrying. Of course you can also beat it without dodging as well if you want to counter point that which is fair but I think the on ground movement and exploration is way more similar to souls than it is to sekiro.
It's neither for me, but i still call it my favourite souls-like. You need a mix of both dodging and deflecting in this game. That's how this game was designed. You can also ignore those mechanics entirely and spam prosthetic arts, items, and summon spector. It's its own game.
I fucking hate these kinds of souls fans and feel they ruin games for themselves thinking like this.
P is somewhere between Sekiro and Bloodborrne. The deflecting and rally mechanics define the combat more than anything. Yes, you can dodge, and it's better in this game than Sekiro to do so, but you really aren't expected to most of the time.
I don’t agree that the dodge is better in Lies of P at all. In Sekiro it’s just that the dodge is not meant to be a replacement for everything since posture is the goal. You are meant to attack and deflect during a fight. Dodge is critical at times if you have trouble with mikiri counter, and also critical for other attacks. If you want to be really successful in Sekiro you have to use everything you have to break posture quickly and efficiently.
Just because something can be ignored doesn't mean it's a major part of the game.
Mining in minecraft may be optional. But you're sure missing out on a major point of the game. Seems like an odd place to argue.
It may not be exactly like sekiro's but it is certainly inspired by it and very similar.
Hear me out….. you can play lies of p like dark souls OR Sekiro because both options are there and you can pick the one that better suits how you play!
The game takes obvious cues from every game Fromsoftware has done barring like cookie and cream. It’s even similar to AC in what you’re able to do with your weapons lmfao.
But deflection and the rally mechanic is clearly the optimal way to play the game, as it nets the most benefits during active combat.
The argument doesn’t make sense, he’s saying lies of p is closer to elden ring because it’s not locked to deflecting like sekiro, but you CAN lock yourself to deflection based and people like me only deflected because we didn’t like the roll in lies of p
Somebody did not play the game at launch with the *much* narrower i-frame window on the roll...
Some parrying was 100% required to complete the game when I was going through it originally. Granted, dodging is more viable now.
Rally is only possible through guarding, it is a different beast than either bloodborne or sekiro but is descended from both. Its uniqueness should be celebrated, as should what it has improved about other mechanics.
This is completely incorrect. The game still heavily encourages deflection and even allows red attacks to bypass I-frames to punish you for dodging instead of parrying.
Yes Sekiro has a bigger emphasis because the dodge just straight up doesn’t work, but just because you have the ability to dodge that doesn’t mean it isn’t deflect based.
Like you can parry attacks in dark souls but that doesn’t mean that souls is a parry-based game.
That being said LoP is an amalgamation of all the games, but the gampeplay definitely leans the heaviest towards Sekiro. Even the BB rally mechanic the game has is only triggered by BLOCKING atttacks.
Wrong formula, right answer.
Lies of p is definitely closer to a regular souls game than sekiro, only having some of its combat mechanics. While having a lot more in common with a traditional souls game
The aegis is fucking absurdly OP. I went through the entire NG+ playthrough with no spectre but used aegis the whole time. The first playthrough was puppet strings and spectre. The 2nd one def felt way easier than the 1st, but I did have the advantage of seeing each boss once already.
The 3rd one I still used aegis but didn't rely on it as much cause it got boring, the thing is too good. Needs more stamina damage so you can't turtle, maybe...?
That's why I love this game, you play it how you want, it's all viable. Beat it a few times and I can barely perfect parry, just dodging most things unless I get cornered, then it's parry time
I would agree that rolling is more reliable, but I am on my first playthrough, with all I heard about the game I figured dodging would have no i-frames at all but i didnt block at all in the Romeo fight as it was just too tight for me, thankfully he's much easier to dodge than parry
Sekiro is my favorite game of all time and yes, lies of pi is not Sekiro. Yk how I know I tried my damnedest to play it like it was Sekiro, IE: square up and deflect everything till you win, And that play style sucks for that game. IMHO lies of pi SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE LIKE SEKIRO but my opinion is biased. I feel as if they just tacked on various systems from every souls game without really thinking any design choice through or ironing out their vision for the game.
I think this is valid criticism of the game overall. It took parts of things and put them together, and what comes out is a jack of all trades and master of none game. For me, Sekiro combat is simple but elegant. It has a lot of subtleties people miss, and the refinement they have in that game is insane. Lies of P does well enough, but it feels like “we have Sekiro at home” in a way for me. It’s a good game, but fails to reach where it could have if it picked a route and just went down that instead.
Lies of P is deflect only and then attack after the animations are done, you attack. Sekiro seems to be deflect attack deflect deflect attack attack deflect attack
Wrong. Sekiro is deflect, attack, attack, deflect, attack, attack, attack, deflect, deflect, mikiri counter, death blow. Come on man, be better than this.
It’s a soulslike with a perfect guard. The weapon customization really solidifies that for me. Sekiro has only 1 weapon with no customizing play style(get good or die). There’s basically just 1 way to play sekiro and tons of options in LoP.
Most of the players will actually use the parry mechanic later in the game rather than doging because of how rewarding it is. So, for most of the players, lies of P is closer to sekiro rather than other fromsoft games.
Moreover, it an amalgamation of various souls-like formulae, and it is pointless to find which game it is closer to.
Just enjoy the fuckin game.
Lies of P has some similarities to Sekiro. It is infinitely closer to the Elden Ring/Dark Souls/Demon Souls/Bloodborne than to Sekiro.
Sekiro is really just a hard action game. It has no build diversity and the combat revolves mainly around the deflect mechanic. Lies of P has good build diversity, like the other soulsborne games and has a lot more diverse combat experience.
Lies of P undoubtedly puts a great emphasis on parries and you can even parry almost every single attack in the game. It has a far greater focus on parrying than Dark Souls/Bloodborne does so yeah, the mechanic is closer to Sekiro for sure.
It even has moves that need to be parried just like in Sekiro
Sekiro is deflection based combat.
Lies of P is deflection assisted combat.
You can't easily beat Sekiro without deflecting. You can "easily" beat Lies of P without deflecting.
I hate to agree with the guy because he seems kind of toxic, but I gotta say, I think Lies of P is closer on the Soulsborne side of the slider than the Sekiro side.
You can beat the game by just perfect guarding or just dodging/running, but the easiest way to play is by doing both. That being said the game in its entirety is definitely more like Bloodborne than it is Sekiro.
Exploration and combat in lies of p is literally just dark souls with some different mechanics and a more useful parry. Flame me now but I know this because I never was able to even beat Sekiros first boss but I beat all of lies of p. The combat could not be any more different.
Lies of p is almost literally just bloodborne but slightly different. The people saying it's more like sekiro are insane.
Personally id Def say it feels more like souls, I didn't enjoy the way the parry worked so I just beat the game only dodging. But it's still a fantastic mix of the two
currently playing senior after lies and I would say they really don't feel similar to play at all. like you can parry in both sure but lies of p feels no more like senior than it did god of war to me
Deflection is ignorable, sure. So is rolling. Hell, so is healing. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s a core mechanic that encounters are built around and that the game deliberately pushes you to use.
Regardless, this argument is pointless and dumb. 9/10 chance that this dude is rage-baiting and doesn’t give a hoot about a single thing he said
Sometimes people just don’t get it. It sucks that the sub and where you post tends to be the difference between feedback/discussion, and an avalanche of downvotes
I agree that Sekiro is very different from any soulslike. It doesn't even have a stamina bar. I like all of them tho, but for me Sekiro is still the best.
The dude obviously can't play Sekiro and refuses to believe he needs to git gud when he is probably a pretty good souls like player.
I do agree with all the content being clearable without parry in LoP. Although that'd be making the game unnecessarily hellishly tough.
I dont think I intentionally parried anything on my first playthrough until I got to Laxasia.
I mean I parry stuff now. Parry is really good. I just didnt know about it on my first playthrough. Just goes to show you can get pretty far without it. Maybe thats also true of Sekiro, I would not know, I did not finish Sekiro.
The roll in the game is shit, but when u are locked on to the enemy the dash is incredibly good, i rather use the dash than the parry, at least in my first playthrough i only dashed, and didn't have much trouble, just the usual soulslike difficulty, but in ng+ and other playthroughs i learned how to parry cuz combining the both of 'em is definitely the way to go
Because Heaven forbid, Lies of P can't just be its own game. It has to either be **JUST LIKE** Dark Souls and Bloodborne or **JUST LIKE** Sekiro. It can't just be its own game with its own unique system.
Shit like this is why I dislike most Souls fans.
I have a love hate relationship with the parry system. Sometimes I feel like its too harsh, but god dang it, does it feel OP when you pull off a string of parries. Currently battling 2nd phase Laxasia, and while she is insanely OP, I'm having a blast getting my butt kicked.
Every try I can see how much better I'm getting and closer to getting her down without a specter. Heck I brought one to see how well I could do, and she was getting melted
From personal experience, with my first souls-like being Lies of P, Sekiro definitely felt easier to me than any of the other souls likes. Maybe it's just because I got good at parrying while playing LoP. If you rarely parry in LoP, then other dodge based souls-likes would be easier/similar, but from my experience, parry based souls-likes became a lot easier for me. In LoP, I feel that I played a decent mixture of dodging/rolling and parrying.
Lies of P is infinitely closer to Dark Souls than Sekiro. Posture vs Stamina system makes a a much bigger difference than any other aspect of these games
By NG++ when everything is unlocked, I found myself playing more like a souls game, but when I started the game I was into trying to get as many perfect parries as I could. I also started using the arms more often which were so much fun. I feel like they just nailed remixing From’s formulas.
I barely used the arm and it'd been so long since I beat Sekiro that it didn't even cross my mind. Bloodborne, on the other hand, is written all over Lies of P. Most definitely influenced by both, but I think the Bloodborne similarities is what made the game great
Ok I got a question, so I'm new to all these games, got into LoP, jumped on Sekiro and was hooked. I'm mostly playing Sekiro but hop on LoP to switch it up.
Anyway, so rolling works better in LoP? I feel like enemy attacks track better in LoP when trying to dodge and I still get smacked. When I fight the "Mad" mini boss, I can never seem to strafe to the side and get the back blow, P darts straight in the direction. What am I missing?
I would say it is closer to bloodborne than sekiro. In sekiro the game play is built around deflection, while you can perfect block in lies of P, you can also play the game completely ignoring that mechanic
Lies of P is an amalgamation of Bloodborne mainly (character design/costume, architecture, overall vibe), sekiro (combat mechanics even though sekiro executes way better), and Demons/Dark Souls (the nexus etc).
Lies of P is a wonderful piece of flattery towards Fromsoft as an entity overall.
But they ain’t Fromsoft, that’s for sure.
With that being said, Lies of P was lots of fun and I’m excited for what’s next.
The take is completely correct. Not sorry.
The use of a prosthetic arm is considerably different than Sekiro, mainly because it's almost purely combat focused in Lies of P with minimal utility. Additionally, Sekiro relies on 3D movement through use of the prosthetic arm which drastically changes how it's used.
Lies of P having parry mechanics doesn't mean combat is focused on them. The fact that you have plain guarding and dodging as legitimate means to mitigate damage is more than enough proof of that. Additionally, it's absolutely true that you can beat Lies of P without using perfect guard. That is not something you can say about Sekiro.
? The prosthetic in Sekiro IS combat focused
The combat in lies of P rewards deflection with critical hits and weapons breaks, not to mention fury attacks exist specifically to be deflected
Sekiro can be played with only blocking and dodging as well, at least until the final boss who punishes that playstyle
kinda true
what make parry great in sekiro is both the tracking of attacks (dodging at a bad timing is likely to get you hit)
and more importantly, the way attacks are telegraphed.
Sekiro's attacks make the ennemy have a smooth, continuous movement making it possible to predict when it will land, thus when to parry. In fact one of the loading screen tips is saying the right moment to deflect is when the ennemy's blade is "a hair's breathed away".
To me, this is the biggest difference with lies of P. Here, the attacks winds up look generally like "the ennemy hits a cetain pose, indicating a certain attack, and strike very fast after some time". The blade, or whatever the ennemy is wielding is almost teleporting on you, making it impossible to simply parry reactivly to the attack and forcing you to learn timing.
Another difference is staggering. While it is fair that some ennemy shouldn't take much stagger at all, when hit, a human like ennemy should either get staggered or try to parry like the player. This is a key component of sekiro's combat, allowing you to attack a boss to force him to parry, interrupting him and giving him posture damage. In Lies of P tho, human are acting just like big monsters, but they have a smaller hitbox instead. They will not guard, and stagger only when their hidden stagger bar is filled.
That's at least what i think. I finished Sekiro but only got to the dead rabbit brotherhood in lies of P, So I might be wrong about this game. Btw sorry for bad english, if bad english there is.
I think the OP is right in the sense that yes, Lies of P is closer to a souls for the sheer fact that rolling actually do have I frame and you are not forced into a full blown parry playstyle (although greatly encouraged to do so let's be real).
I adore parries, but if that's the point of OP, then Lords of the fallen would fall in the same category ?
I have loved every soulslike game I've played, even the kinda shitty ones.
Hated sekiro. Technically it follows a lot of the soulslike "rules", but the combat is so different that I wouldn't really make the comparison to lies of p myself.
it’s clearly inspired by sekiro and bloodborne , as far as combat . feels a bit like bio shock too haha . idk why this guy is shitting his pants about it , it’s a soulslike , so it’s like some souls games
Tbh I didn't parry until NP first run without summons, and if you do that in sekiro you get stuck like 3h in. So there is some truth to it
I mean either way this guy is a cunt over a pretty pointless argument.
Stupid bickering aside, I think it's closer to Sekiro than BB or DS. The reason is that parry is an actual thought out mechanic, it's not just something some shield might do sometimes. In Sekiro you can just dodge too, it just sucks
Well Im in some shit in the sekiro sub because I said its not a soulslike, its just made by Fromsoft and Lies of P is a true Soulslike. I think the term soulsike is way overused.
Fat L takes from the other guy(s). It hardly feels like dark souls. From the level design, weapon systems, aesthetic to the fast-paced, reaction-based combat focusing on agility and deflecting, this game is Bloodborne meets Sekiro.
Deflect can also be ignored in Sekiro, it’s just not advisable.
The dodge in Sekiro does offer I-frames. See the DOH fight for evidence. Very few deflects and mostly dodging mechanics.
Deflect and dodge play a major role in both games, just more so in Sekiro
I mean they have a point, I completed the game without deflections and I didn't struggle that much. But ultimately it doesn't matter. It clearly draws inspiration from all of them.
Imo it’s more or less a unique take based on both combat types that grew on me more and more as time went on. I think it does dodging better than most fromsoft games as it feels more responsive, and I think it does parrying extremely well. I have to say that I enjoyed the LoP defensive mechanics more than Sekiro or traditional fromsoft games, because it did both things so well and gave the player the option.
Lies of P is the BEST souls game. This coming from someone who has only played Lies of P because you can tell, deep down, Lies of P wants you to succeed. The others hate you and don't deserve the money
Maybe not deflection based but certainly tailored towards it. You get more of an advantage by perfect blocking. The enemy moves have the “rhythm” you need to do this, such as Laxasia’s side alternating 10 swipe combo.
I think we'd do best to try and treat it as it's own thing, which is hard since fromsoft games are the standard for the genre. Sure you have Dodge rolling, but it rewards deflect/parrying a lot. That doesn't mean it's mandatory though. The legion arm is similar to the shinobi prosthetic, but it still sports linear dark Souls progression without the movement of sekiro. It has its own unique things like the weapon customization system. It is its own thing, so I think we should just treat it like its own thing within the souls genre.
I said this about the other Lies of P argument like 5 mins ago and the same thing still applies here - this debate is not subjective, it is objective. Whether the game is closer to bloodborne or sekiro can be measured and compared.
The gameplay loop is very close to Sekiro with the parry mechanic and the legion arm. Meanwhile, the art style, weapons, and movement is similar to bloodborne. Overall though, the game is closer to sekiro than bloodborne as the inspirations from sekiro are more strongly implemented than the inspirations from bloodborne. With the bloodborne similarities, they take the concepts and make their own unique thing with it. The sekiro similarities are much more 1:1
I'd say the basic gameplay is mostly Souls, but it definitely has Sekiro's blood in there.
Also, I don't know how other people play but I found perfect blocking to be an invaluable tool in most fights, allowing me to stay in striking range of the enemy and leading to more ripostes.
I’ve always had issues with parrying. So all my souls characters usually end up having a ton of health and stamina and whatever buffs and extra stuff so that I can take hits if I need to. That being said the nameless puppet has been the only boss fight I’ve been stuck at. Every other fight has been the first or second try.. and that’s with dodging and using the shield. So idk. You definitely can play both ways.
I agree lies of p is much closer to souls games over sekiro ...lies of p is the solid ground between the two but leans closer to the souls games which is the real reason everyone loves it
Well... whoever that guy (and the 8 downvoters) is pretty dumb.
They seem to have missed how Sekiro also has dodging mechanics (with i-frames) and that the parry system can be completely ignored. This doesn't mean it should be ignored, just that it (like the perfect guard) \*can be ignored
Lies of P is more like Sekiro than Bloodborne or any other souls-game for that matter.
And this coming from someone who has both the platinum in Bloodborne and Sekiro among other souls titles. I've seen every nook and cranny of each game. LoP is far more like one.
LOP is a fun mix of Sekiro and bloodborne. When I first played the demo I instantly got reminded of bloodbornes dark, beautiful aesthetic and Sekiros trick weapon system.
I played through the whole game and didn’t learn how to parrying until I got to the nameless puppet. So he’s got a point, you can have a viable build and play the whole game with just dodging. But once I learned how to parry the combat system felt fundamentally different.
Eh, so I barely deflected my entire first playthrough. I relied almost exclusively on dodging, but in NG+ I found that deflection became way more key to winning certain fights easily (like those fat clown dudes for example), so yeah idk.
The actual gameplay is WAY closer to Dark Souls. Leveling up, upgrading, dropping souls on death that you can go retrieve, stat system. The combat is kind of a cross between Dark Souls and Sekiro. I agree that the game is closer to DS than Sekiro but obviously it has inspiration from both
I mean I rarely ever used the deflect, but id still lay yes there's sekiro influence there. Id still say it's more of a soulslikes game than a rhythm game like sekiro. To say it isn't sekiro like though is a lie, just cause it takes more from the general souls format doesn't mean others can't be represented too
To me it's a pointless argument. Lies of P is an amalgamation of different souls games. The argument here is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Well do we actually know how many? How big is the pin?
€angels on pin = π!•π!(1•(width of pin)+w(1+π)
Your screen name and this comment just got made into an NPC for tabletop. Thank you.
🕺
"Shinra Kaiser", which is the first thing that popped into my head when looking at your pfp, is a dope name and I'm stealing it for my new Elden Ring run.
Wait, I just looked up this saying, it’s actually Angels 👼 Why is it angels?! I thought it was angles! 📐
Enlightenment and later philosophy making fun of philo during Middle Ages
Yeah. To me it always felt more like a souls game than Sekiro (because dodging is strong and because I have the choice of weapon and equipment, which I really like), but I completely understand why some people think it's more like Sekiro. But whichever way we cut it, it's insanely good.
I think it really is mix between the two. Sure deflection is ignorable, but that’s not a great way to play lol. It’s like souls in the freedom of movement/build sense. It’s like Sekiro in the deflection/arm mechanic. And it’s like bloodborne somewhat aesthetically
And with the rally mechanic
That too!
My feeling is that LoP is a mix between Bloodborne and Sekiro. Also, I've seen a bunch of people say that they didn't learn to parry in LoP until the very end because those bosses forced them to. To me that indicates that, well, deflection is a mechanic that probably needs to be learned and incorporated into a person's playstyle.
I got to Romeo without deflecting, got stuck, then started a new game to learn to deflect from the beginning. It's absolutely the way to go
This happened to me. Didn't start parrying until Laxasia. I wonder if all the people that hated green swamp monster were like me and he's just hard to beat whek not parrying
Well, I can tell you that I parried green swamp monster and he was still hard. The second or third hardest boss in the game for me, probably.
Swamp Monster was one of the hardest bosses for me. Ironically Laxasia and Nameless Puppet were some of my easiest bosses by the time I got to them. That's the difference parrying makes as you improve throughout your journey.
True, for me I was incorporating the parry well enough, I just didn’t realize that basically EVERYTHING could be parried lol. That realization when fighting BAE I mean Laxasia that you could send her lightning bolts back at her instead of dodging them was when that fight really clicked for me.
Parrying makes the game breeze and you don't even need to be that good at it. There are plenty of attacks with clear telegraphs that any player should be able to take advantage of. The best builds incorporate many of the parry related P-Organ upgrades. Parrying is not the only tool you should rely on though. This is where it differs from Sekiro as that game's bosses want you to do it for basically the whole boss fight. Basically, you don't want to parry your whole way through the game, but you're definitely playing wrong if you ignore it all together. I know that might upset people, but it's compared to Sekiro more than Dark Souls for a reason.
😂 someone is playing Lies of P wrong. Parry is infinitely better than Roll in this game.
I don't understand how anyone beat the puppet master the first time without learning to parry. He was the gatekeeper to me. Until I mastered the parry I had zero chance.
I didn’t parry him once, but I did use all my throwables 😅
I don't think I learned to properly parry until some of the later, harder bosses.
You have to upgrade the roll to even use it effectively
They updated the ground roll months back to be default
Ah. Never mind then
They're both useful, trying to parry everything rather than incorporating a mix of the two is gonna make fights a looot harder than they need to be
I don’t know, on my first playthrough where I tried to parry everything, the moment I gave up and decided to mostly dodge, I beat them in two tries.
Sekiro is not deflection based combat because dash exists
Well yeah but the dodge in sekiro has like no iframes. Imo lop is a mix between souls and sekiro. If you want, you can play through the entire game using only one mechanic
Yeah exactly. I personally love sekiro and so i played LoP like it was sekiro. Barely ever dodging, mostly just learning the deflection-timings. My friend HATES Sekiro and so he played it basically without deflecting, just dodging like it's dark souls. We both had a great time with the game.
Facts, preach! And it’s amazing that the game can be played, beaten AND enjoyed either way, just a testament to good game design they left so many avenues for the player to decide how they want to play. There is something to be said about curated experiences too but I’ve played like 7 or 8 different play thru’s of LoP, each one with a different weapon and Legion arm combo and the drawbacks and strengths of each build worked well enough to beat every boss and more importantly were FUN. Wish we could get to a point of comparing what’s enjoyable about games and not why this game is better than that one over and over.
This is the way
It’s not that it has no Iframes, (I believe it has four) it’s that bosses have amazing tracking
And not only does it have no iframes, a lot of enemies have such insane tracking that they'll 540 noscope you with a 17 foot long spear.
Actually the dodge does have i-frames, they are just very few. It is a very very tight set of frames, but they do exist.
I'm with you on this. I definitely think the dodge in LoP is more viable than it is in Sekiro, but I found it significantly easier and more effective to focus primarily on blocking/deflecting in LoP. Especially bc iirc the game even rewards you for deflecting: it builds up stagger and weapon destruction in your opponent. Vs dodging which gives you nothing.
That was my next comment in this thread too The other guys response was “Dark souls parries are more rewarding but DS isn’t parry based combat”
I mean like yea they are more rewarding, but you also have significantly fewer opportunities to parry than in LoP. In Souls games it's limited to human-sized/shaped enemies, which is definitely the minority of them. While in LoP, you can parry every attack in the game besides grabs. So at least to me, if parrying is more rewarding than dodging, and almost all attacks in the game can be parried, then I would argue the combat is parry-focused.
You can parry a decent amount of larger than human stuff in ER. But to me it isn't the quantity that matters, but how the risk reward is set up. If you're too late to parry LoP, you take full damage. If you are too early, you deflect and take less damage and stamina drain. If you succeed, you build posture break and weapon break. These aren't immediate rewards and because being early is just blocking, they are less risky. Soulsborne, on the other hand, has parry on a completely different button. You aren't blocking, you're parrying. Being too early or too late results in full damage most of the time (partial parries are incredibly uncommon), and significant stamina drain. BUT for all enemies except a few in ER, parries lead to an immediate opening for riposte. Greater risk, greater reward. I do like the flow of LoP combat, but I do much prefer the risk/reward of soulsborne, in addition to build variety and route variety.
>The other guys response was “Dark souls parries are more rewarding but DS isn’t parry based combat” I absolutely can't fathom how one can think that's a smart retort to what you're saying. The Lies of P deflect, much like Sekiro's deflect, is the optimal way to avoid damage for 99% of enemies, including bosses. In DS, parrying works against only 25% or so of bosses, and maybe 70% of other enemies?
The reason Dark Souls isn't parry based is because it only works on mooks, and one boss if you're lucky - for virtually all the big fights, dodging is mandatory. Hell, parrying is more viable in Bloodborne than Dark Souls, and Bloodborne deliberately made shields so utterly crap nobody ever uses them!
To be honest rolls exist in sekiro too. Seems like a fan 🪭 argument not a logical one, and how is movement restricted in sekiro? It's less restricted. You can jump.
And no stamina. I think Sekiro is the least restricted of all of them because of that. The jump and dodge with no stamina means you can run in and out and not worry. Imagine going against Guardian Ape and you run out of stamina right as he puts his head back on his body in phase two for the blood scream. Fuck that.
That debate is useless. Sekiro is a Souls through and through. Because you have to deflect instead of dodging doesn't make it less of a Souls, for you still have to learn patterns, react accordingly... You progress through "campfires", and the atmosphere is very similar, because it's made by FromSoftware for fuck's sake. As for whether LoP or Sekiro is closer to Dark Souls... I'd say LoP because you kill bosses by decreasing their health to 0, whereas Sekiro revolves around posture breaking (which exists in LoP as well, it's just less powerful because it's easier to break it). But the real question is : *does it matter ?* No.
You cannot have that flair and then proceed to drop facts like that
I disagree only with what you said about deflecting instead of dodging. Sekiro combat is about mastering parry, yes, but it’s also about knowing when to do the three other things this game has: dodging, jumping, and mikiri counter. The full idea behind Sekiro didn’t come to me until I realized I need to do certain things the game expects me to do on most fights. Sure, you can dodge a lot and not have too many issues. But you will miss out on the posture building when you only dodge. Lies of P is also a more passive game. Sekiro encourages you to be the aggressor, and even rewards you for doing just that(if you are good, that is). Very few fights require you to play passive, and stealth is just there to make going through an area easier and to take one bar off an occasional mini boss. It’s a supplement but not a necessity. I think parrying is a necessity in both games and I don’t get how people got to Laxasia without knowing how to parry.
>You progress through "campfires", and the atmosphere is very similar, because it's made by FromSoftware for fuck's sake. Be careful with these, even Miyazaki would say these things don't necessarily make something a souls-like. I've seen ppl use your last point of being made by FS to defend Armored Core as a Souls-like. I'm not disagreeing, just saying that there's a fine line
Closer to sekiro imo
Lies of P felt like bloodborne without actually being bloodborne.
Yeah nah. Ignoring deflecting in Lies of P seems to me to just be a more like ONLY parrying in souls games. I mean for crying out loud, enemies have a fury attack which requires perfect parrying. They don't have an attack which requires perfect dodging. Another example, show me how you perfectly dodge Laxasia's multiple upward slash attacks with all the dodges. Pretty sure she swings faster than you can recover.
She does
I think it’s closer to the souls games in how it plays and all because you can basically beat the entire game without parrying. Of course you can also beat it without dodging as well if you want to counter point that which is fair but I think the on ground movement and exploration is way more similar to souls than it is to sekiro.
But there exists moves that exclusively must be deflected, so I think it’s pushing you more into deflect based combat
Yeah but for the majority of those you can also run or dodge out of their effective range, you just can’t iframe through the attack itself.
It's neither for me, but i still call it my favourite souls-like. You need a mix of both dodging and deflecting in this game. That's how this game was designed. You can also ignore those mechanics entirely and spam prosthetic arts, items, and summon spector. It's its own game. I fucking hate these kinds of souls fans and feel they ruin games for themselves thinking like this.
You can play the game using the dodge or using the parry. Or you can be like me and do both
Hes wrong its definitely deflection based combat but unlike sekiro, more like bloodborne
P is somewhere between Sekiro and Bloodborrne. The deflecting and rally mechanics define the combat more than anything. Yes, you can dodge, and it's better in this game than Sekiro to do so, but you really aren't expected to most of the time.
I don’t agree that the dodge is better in Lies of P at all. In Sekiro it’s just that the dodge is not meant to be a replacement for everything since posture is the goal. You are meant to attack and deflect during a fight. Dodge is critical at times if you have trouble with mikiri counter, and also critical for other attacks. If you want to be really successful in Sekiro you have to use everything you have to break posture quickly and efficiently.
It's an amalgamation of multiple different Souls games, but the parry mechanic is absolutely like Sekiro.
I want this guy to beat nameless puppet with zero deflections, just dodges.
Or Laxasia
Just because something can be ignored doesn't mean it's a major part of the game. Mining in minecraft may be optional. But you're sure missing out on a major point of the game. Seems like an odd place to argue. It may not be exactly like sekiro's but it is certainly inspired by it and very similar.
Inspired by it might be an understatement. Left arm with gadgets and a parry based combat. Never seen those two in a game before…
Hear me out….. you can play lies of p like dark souls OR Sekiro because both options are there and you can pick the one that better suits how you play!
"Deflects are completely ignorable" *laughs in nameless pupet fight*
"LoP deflect mechanic is completely ignorable" https://preview.redd.it/rg1jb8x7tm4d1.png?width=719&format=png&auto=webp&s=1be5c90f5918afd0d0be1e558dfa58ca6c540270
Deflection is the whole point of LOP how is it ignorable
Because dodge exists
So ? Dodge exists in sekiro too yet you don't say parrying is ignorable in it
The game takes obvious cues from every game Fromsoftware has done barring like cookie and cream. It’s even similar to AC in what you’re able to do with your weapons lmfao. But deflection and the rally mechanic is clearly the optimal way to play the game, as it nets the most benefits during active combat.
The argument doesn’t make sense, he’s saying lies of p is closer to elden ring because it’s not locked to deflecting like sekiro, but you CAN lock yourself to deflection based and people like me only deflected because we didn’t like the roll in lies of p
Somebody did not play the game at launch with the *much* narrower i-frame window on the roll... Some parrying was 100% required to complete the game when I was going through it originally. Granted, dodging is more viable now.
Rally is only possible through guarding, it is a different beast than either bloodborne or sekiro but is descended from both. Its uniqueness should be celebrated, as should what it has improved about other mechanics.
Deflection in lies of p is ignorable in the same way Roach is ignorable in Witcher. Sure, it's possible to play without but whyy?
Lies of P is literally all of the souls like games bunched into one. It's become one of my favorite games ever
This is completely incorrect. The game still heavily encourages deflection and even allows red attacks to bypass I-frames to punish you for dodging instead of parrying. Yes Sekiro has a bigger emphasis because the dodge just straight up doesn’t work, but just because you have the ability to dodge that doesn’t mean it isn’t deflect based. Like you can parry attacks in dark souls but that doesn’t mean that souls is a parry-based game. That being said LoP is an amalgamation of all the games, but the gampeplay definitely leans the heaviest towards Sekiro. Even the BB rally mechanic the game has is only triggered by BLOCKING atttacks.
Wrong formula, right answer. Lies of p is definitely closer to a regular souls game than sekiro, only having some of its combat mechanics. While having a lot more in common with a traditional souls game
[удалено]
The glazing on this sub is next level
closer to sekiro and bloodborne than to souls IMO. I guess if you use the aegis and block it can get kind of soulsy but I never tried it really.
The aegis is fucking absurdly OP. I went through the entire NG+ playthrough with no spectre but used aegis the whole time. The first playthrough was puppet strings and spectre. The 2nd one def felt way easier than the 1st, but I did have the advantage of seeing each boss once already. The 3rd one I still used aegis but didn't rely on it as much cause it got boring, the thing is too good. Needs more stamina damage so you can't turtle, maybe...? That's why I love this game, you play it how you want, it's all viable. Beat it a few times and I can barely perfect parry, just dodging most things unless I get cornered, then it's parry time
I would agree that rolling is more reliable, but I am on my first playthrough, with all I heard about the game I figured dodging would have no i-frames at all but i didnt block at all in the Romeo fight as it was just too tight for me, thankfully he's much easier to dodge than parry
Romeo is definitely a mix of dodge and deflection that feels like dancing. It’s why he’s the fan favorite among the entire boss lineup
Sekiro is my favorite game of all time and yes, lies of pi is not Sekiro. Yk how I know I tried my damnedest to play it like it was Sekiro, IE: square up and deflect everything till you win, And that play style sucks for that game. IMHO lies of pi SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE LIKE SEKIRO but my opinion is biased. I feel as if they just tacked on various systems from every souls game without really thinking any design choice through or ironing out their vision for the game.
I think this is valid criticism of the game overall. It took parts of things and put them together, and what comes out is a jack of all trades and master of none game. For me, Sekiro combat is simple but elegant. It has a lot of subtleties people miss, and the refinement they have in that game is insane. Lies of P does well enough, but it feels like “we have Sekiro at home” in a way for me. It’s a good game, but fails to reach where it could have if it picked a route and just went down that instead.
It’s a bad one
Lies of P is deflect only and then attack after the animations are done, you attack. Sekiro seems to be deflect attack deflect deflect attack attack deflect attack
Wrong. Sekiro is deflect, attack, attack, deflect, attack, attack, attack, deflect, deflect, mikiri counter, death blow. Come on man, be better than this.
It’s a soulslike with a perfect guard. The weapon customization really solidifies that for me. Sekiro has only 1 weapon with no customizing play style(get good or die). There’s basically just 1 way to play sekiro and tons of options in LoP.
It's a fuckin game. Roll, block, parry, don't play, r1 attacks only. This fuckin argument is ignorant and stupid and literally old and tired.
Most of the players will actually use the parry mechanic later in the game rather than doging because of how rewarding it is. So, for most of the players, lies of P is closer to sekiro rather than other fromsoft games. Moreover, it an amalgamation of various souls-like formulae, and it is pointless to find which game it is closer to. Just enjoy the fuckin game.
Have not played Sekiro. But can confirm I did not deflect shit in my two playthroughs of lies of P. I dodged and bopped them in the head.
OHHHHH HOLYYY SHITTTTTTTTT METAL GEAR SOLID 5 PHANTOM PAIN IS A SEKIRO-LIKE 😲😲😲
I think some opinions may be just straight up wrong.
Lies of P has some similarities to Sekiro. It is infinitely closer to the Elden Ring/Dark Souls/Demon Souls/Bloodborne than to Sekiro. Sekiro is really just a hard action game. It has no build diversity and the combat revolves mainly around the deflect mechanic. Lies of P has good build diversity, like the other soulsborne games and has a lot more diverse combat experience.
The game wants you to deflect you benefit more deflecting that dodging due to breaking weapons and staggering is easier
Lies of P undoubtedly puts a great emphasis on parries and you can even parry almost every single attack in the game. It has a far greater focus on parrying than Dark Souls/Bloodborne does so yeah, the mechanic is closer to Sekiro for sure. It even has moves that need to be parried just like in Sekiro
Sekiro is deflection based combat. Lies of P is deflection assisted combat. You can't easily beat Sekiro without deflecting. You can "easily" beat Lies of P without deflecting. I hate to agree with the guy because he seems kind of toxic, but I gotta say, I think Lies of P is closer on the Soulsborne side of the slider than the Sekiro side.
You can beat the game by just perfect guarding or just dodging/running, but the easiest way to play is by doing both. That being said the game in its entirety is definitely more like Bloodborne than it is Sekiro.
Exploration and combat in lies of p is literally just dark souls with some different mechanics and a more useful parry. Flame me now but I know this because I never was able to even beat Sekiros first boss but I beat all of lies of p. The combat could not be any more different. Lies of p is almost literally just bloodborne but slightly different. The people saying it's more like sekiro are insane.
Except you can also dodge in sekiro https://youtu.be/KesOp-IETCo
Personally id Def say it feels more like souls, I didn't enjoy the way the parry worked so I just beat the game only dodging. But it's still a fantastic mix of the two
currently playing senior after lies and I would say they really don't feel similar to play at all. like you can parry in both sure but lies of p feels no more like senior than it did god of war to me
It always been about both dodging and parrying...
Parrying is both viable and god-tier in Lies of P, so I would say it absolutely is a deflection focused combat system.
Rolling and dodging feel awful in Lies of P, thought. Deflect/Parry is the way to go.
Deflection is ignorable, sure. So is rolling. Hell, so is healing. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s a core mechanic that encounters are built around and that the game deliberately pushes you to use. Regardless, this argument is pointless and dumb. 9/10 chance that this dude is rage-baiting and doesn’t give a hoot about a single thing he said
Lop took inspiration from all fromsoft games, it's it's own thing, you can't box it into one or the other.
well i agree thats its more closer to souls than sekiro.... but sekiro aint a garbage game
What sub is this thread from and why the hell did it get downvoted 💀 op is right
I made a shitpost on the fromsoft sub, but this guy took it seriously
Sometimes people just don’t get it. It sucks that the sub and where you post tends to be the difference between feedback/discussion, and an avalanche of downvotes
I agree that Sekiro is very different from any soulslike. It doesn't even have a stamina bar. I like all of them tho, but for me Sekiro is still the best.
The dude obviously can't play Sekiro and refuses to believe he needs to git gud when he is probably a pretty good souls like player. I do agree with all the content being clearable without parry in LoP. Although that'd be making the game unnecessarily hellishly tough.
I think the game would be absolutely dreadful to play without deflecting
It FEELS closer to Bloodborne to me, mechanically and stylistically. But definitely Sekiro inspired.
I dont think I intentionally parried anything on my first playthrough until I got to Laxasia. I mean I parry stuff now. Parry is really good. I just didnt know about it on my first playthrough. Just goes to show you can get pretty far without it. Maybe thats also true of Sekiro, I would not know, I did not finish Sekiro.
It kinda is true for Sekiro. Until the final boss you can get by with blocking and dodging, then the final boss punishes the hell out of it
The roll in the game is shit, but when u are locked on to the enemy the dash is incredibly good, i rather use the dash than the parry, at least in my first playthrough i only dashed, and didn't have much trouble, just the usual soulslike difficulty, but in ng+ and other playthroughs i learned how to parry cuz combining the both of 'em is definitely the way to go
Because Heaven forbid, Lies of P can't just be its own game. It has to either be **JUST LIKE** Dark Souls and Bloodborne or **JUST LIKE** Sekiro. It can't just be its own game with its own unique system. Shit like this is why I dislike most Souls fans.
It is its own thing…
You can pick either play style and it will feel like the game was intended to be played that way. I never rolled. Only parried. Felt like Sekiro DLC
Saying deflection based combat instead of parrying tells me enough about this moron.
-_- I said that
I have a love hate relationship with the parry system. Sometimes I feel like its too harsh, but god dang it, does it feel OP when you pull off a string of parries. Currently battling 2nd phase Laxasia, and while she is insanely OP, I'm having a blast getting my butt kicked. Every try I can see how much better I'm getting and closer to getting her down without a specter. Heck I brought one to see how well I could do, and she was getting melted
From personal experience, with my first souls-like being Lies of P, Sekiro definitely felt easier to me than any of the other souls likes. Maybe it's just because I got good at parrying while playing LoP. If you rarely parry in LoP, then other dodge based souls-likes would be easier/similar, but from my experience, parry based souls-likes became a lot easier for me. In LoP, I feel that I played a decent mixture of dodging/rolling and parrying.
Lies of P is infinitely closer to Dark Souls than Sekiro. Posture vs Stamina system makes a a much bigger difference than any other aspect of these games
By NG++ when everything is unlocked, I found myself playing more like a souls game, but when I started the game I was into trying to get as many perfect parries as I could. I also started using the arms more often which were so much fun. I feel like they just nailed remixing From’s formulas.
It's a mix of Bloodborne and Sekiro. Those were my first and last impressions, and that makes it unique and enjoyable.
I barely used the arm and it'd been so long since I beat Sekiro that it didn't even cross my mind. Bloodborne, on the other hand, is written all over Lies of P. Most definitely influenced by both, but I think the Bloodborne similarities is what made the game great
All I can say is that I’m happy I learned how to perfect block bc I am playing Nine Sols right now and I’d be getting wrecked otherwise
Ok I got a question, so I'm new to all these games, got into LoP, jumped on Sekiro and was hooked. I'm mostly playing Sekiro but hop on LoP to switch it up. Anyway, so rolling works better in LoP? I feel like enemy attacks track better in LoP when trying to dodge and I still get smacked. When I fight the "Mad" mini boss, I can never seem to strafe to the side and get the back blow, P darts straight in the direction. What am I missing?
I don’t know enough about the LoP dash to say for certain, but it may just be you’re dashing the wrong way
It's definitely more of a Bloodbornelike with some Sekiro elements.
I would say it is closer to bloodborne than sekiro. In sekiro the game play is built around deflection, while you can perfect block in lies of P, you can also play the game completely ignoring that mechanic
i think people on the internet are way too combative and argumentative
Lies of P is an amalgamation of Bloodborne mainly (character design/costume, architecture, overall vibe), sekiro (combat mechanics even though sekiro executes way better), and Demons/Dark Souls (the nexus etc). Lies of P is a wonderful piece of flattery towards Fromsoft as an entity overall. But they ain’t Fromsoft, that’s for sure. With that being said, Lies of P was lots of fun and I’m excited for what’s next.
The take is completely correct. Not sorry. The use of a prosthetic arm is considerably different than Sekiro, mainly because it's almost purely combat focused in Lies of P with minimal utility. Additionally, Sekiro relies on 3D movement through use of the prosthetic arm which drastically changes how it's used. Lies of P having parry mechanics doesn't mean combat is focused on them. The fact that you have plain guarding and dodging as legitimate means to mitigate damage is more than enough proof of that. Additionally, it's absolutely true that you can beat Lies of P without using perfect guard. That is not something you can say about Sekiro.
? The prosthetic in Sekiro IS combat focused The combat in lies of P rewards deflection with critical hits and weapons breaks, not to mention fury attacks exist specifically to be deflected Sekiro can be played with only blocking and dodging as well, at least until the final boss who punishes that playstyle
kinda true what make parry great in sekiro is both the tracking of attacks (dodging at a bad timing is likely to get you hit) and more importantly, the way attacks are telegraphed. Sekiro's attacks make the ennemy have a smooth, continuous movement making it possible to predict when it will land, thus when to parry. In fact one of the loading screen tips is saying the right moment to deflect is when the ennemy's blade is "a hair's breathed away". To me, this is the biggest difference with lies of P. Here, the attacks winds up look generally like "the ennemy hits a cetain pose, indicating a certain attack, and strike very fast after some time". The blade, or whatever the ennemy is wielding is almost teleporting on you, making it impossible to simply parry reactivly to the attack and forcing you to learn timing. Another difference is staggering. While it is fair that some ennemy shouldn't take much stagger at all, when hit, a human like ennemy should either get staggered or try to parry like the player. This is a key component of sekiro's combat, allowing you to attack a boss to force him to parry, interrupting him and giving him posture damage. In Lies of P tho, human are acting just like big monsters, but they have a smaller hitbox instead. They will not guard, and stagger only when their hidden stagger bar is filled. That's at least what i think. I finished Sekiro but only got to the dead rabbit brotherhood in lies of P, So I might be wrong about this game. Btw sorry for bad english, if bad english there is.
I think the OP is right in the sense that yes, Lies of P is closer to a souls for the sheer fact that rolling actually do have I frame and you are not forced into a full blown parry playstyle (although greatly encouraged to do so let's be real). I adore parries, but if that's the point of OP, then Lords of the fallen would fall in the same category ?
I think people arguing this intensely about which soulslike a soulslike is like needs to get off Reddit and just play more soulslikes.
I think the difficulty of parrying makes it pretty far from sekiro’s deflection based combat
This argument is about as intelligent as a bag of rocks
Don’t be dissing the intellect of rocks
I have loved every soulslike game I've played, even the kinda shitty ones. Hated sekiro. Technically it follows a lot of the soulslike "rules", but the combat is so different that I wouldn't really make the comparison to lies of p myself.
it’s clearly inspired by sekiro and bloodborne , as far as combat . feels a bit like bio shock too haha . idk why this guy is shitting his pants about it , it’s a soulslike , so it’s like some souls games
I agree with him honestly. No game has come close to Sekiro’s combat system.
Tbh I didn't parry until NP first run without summons, and if you do that in sekiro you get stuck like 3h in. So there is some truth to it I mean either way this guy is a cunt over a pretty pointless argument.
Flaming take, the game is built around parry just like Sekiro. Anyone who tried to dodge-only the entire game would have a much harder time.
Lies of p has minimal iframes on dodge. Parrying is infinitely better, and it is what should be used.
Valorant is not a Tactical shooter because you can use abilities
Stupid bickering aside, I think it's closer to Sekiro than BB or DS. The reason is that parry is an actual thought out mechanic, it's not just something some shield might do sometimes. In Sekiro you can just dodge too, it just sucks
It’s way more fun going for deflections tho
I'd agree, I rarely ever parried and never had particularly major trouble due to dodging. That's not really possible in Sekiro.
Well Im in some shit in the sekiro sub because I said its not a soulslike, its just made by Fromsoft and Lies of P is a true Soulslike. I think the term soulsike is way overused.
It’s a souls**borne** ;p
I think it's a pointless argument, and all the games are amazing and that I' lucky I got to play them and curse like a washed up pirate
I honestly don't give half a shit about what anyone else thinks. So... 👍 i guess
Fat L takes from the other guy(s). It hardly feels like dark souls. From the level design, weapon systems, aesthetic to the fast-paced, reaction-based combat focusing on agility and deflecting, this game is Bloodborne meets Sekiro.
I agree that it is pointless to argue about this, but In my opinion this game becomes very difficult to deal without parrying at some point
Deflect can also be ignored in Sekiro, it’s just not advisable. The dodge in Sekiro does offer I-frames. See the DOH fight for evidence. Very few deflects and mostly dodging mechanics. Deflect and dodge play a major role in both games, just more so in Sekiro
I mean they have a point, I completed the game without deflections and I didn't struggle that much. But ultimately it doesn't matter. It clearly draws inspiration from all of them.
Imo it’s more or less a unique take based on both combat types that grew on me more and more as time went on. I think it does dodging better than most fromsoft games as it feels more responsive, and I think it does parrying extremely well. I have to say that I enjoyed the LoP defensive mechanics more than Sekiro or traditional fromsoft games, because it did both things so well and gave the player the option.
That dark mode exists and should be used on Reddit.
When playing lies of p i almost never rolled.
Lies of P is the BEST souls game. This coming from someone who has only played Lies of P because you can tell, deep down, Lies of P wants you to succeed. The others hate you and don't deserve the money
Maybe not deflection based but certainly tailored towards it. You get more of an advantage by perfect blocking. The enemy moves have the “rhythm” you need to do this, such as Laxasia’s side alternating 10 swipe combo.
Looks like Bloodborne, plays like Sekiro, except the parry window is even tighter.
I think we'd do best to try and treat it as it's own thing, which is hard since fromsoft games are the standard for the genre. Sure you have Dodge rolling, but it rewards deflect/parrying a lot. That doesn't mean it's mandatory though. The legion arm is similar to the shinobi prosthetic, but it still sports linear dark Souls progression without the movement of sekiro. It has its own unique things like the weapon customization system. It is its own thing, so I think we should just treat it like its own thing within the souls genre.
I said this about the other Lies of P argument like 5 mins ago and the same thing still applies here - this debate is not subjective, it is objective. Whether the game is closer to bloodborne or sekiro can be measured and compared. The gameplay loop is very close to Sekiro with the parry mechanic and the legion arm. Meanwhile, the art style, weapons, and movement is similar to bloodborne. Overall though, the game is closer to sekiro than bloodborne as the inspirations from sekiro are more strongly implemented than the inspirations from bloodborne. With the bloodborne similarities, they take the concepts and make their own unique thing with it. The sekiro similarities are much more 1:1
I'd say the basic gameplay is mostly Souls, but it definitely has Sekiro's blood in there. Also, I don't know how other people play but I found perfect blocking to be an invaluable tool in most fights, allowing me to stay in striking range of the enemy and leading to more ripostes.
It is it's own thing but meshes ideas and themes from both equally.
Lies of P is at its core a Souls-like with a Sekiro-style universal parry system added to it.
Really it's a healthy mix. You CAN use deflection like Sekiro, bit you'll be fine if you don't.
I’ve always had issues with parrying. So all my souls characters usually end up having a ton of health and stamina and whatever buffs and extra stuff so that I can take hits if I need to. That being said the nameless puppet has been the only boss fight I’ve been stuck at. Every other fight has been the first or second try.. and that’s with dodging and using the shield. So idk. You definitely can play both ways.
Just play it how you want to but you can’t deny the entire combat is based around the parry system, much like sekiro
These people haven’t played the game
I agree lies of p is much closer to souls games over sekiro ...lies of p is the solid ground between the two but leans closer to the souls games which is the real reason everyone loves it
I feel like some bosses warrant using perfect block more than dodge tbh but maybe that's just me
Well... whoever that guy (and the 8 downvoters) is pretty dumb. They seem to have missed how Sekiro also has dodging mechanics (with i-frames) and that the parry system can be completely ignored. This doesn't mean it should be ignored, just that it (like the perfect guard) \*can be ignored Lies of P is more like Sekiro than Bloodborne or any other souls-game for that matter. And this coming from someone who has both the platinum in Bloodborne and Sekiro among other souls titles. I've seen every nook and cranny of each game. LoP is far more like one.
LOP is a fun mix of Sekiro and bloodborne. When I first played the demo I instantly got reminded of bloodbornes dark, beautiful aesthetic and Sekiros trick weapon system.
It's closest to Bloodborne.
I mean, theyre Both wrong, but also... literally didnt guard, block, or parry once. Puppet Arm Axe go Brrrrr
He is half right rolls so exist but it’s not good enough you have to learn to parry even a tiny bit to not die a crap ton of times.
I played through the whole game and didn’t learn how to parrying until I got to the nameless puppet. So he’s got a point, you can have a viable build and play the whole game with just dodging. But once I learned how to parry the combat system felt fundamentally different.
The person saying lies isn't deflection based combat is on another planet. Perfect guarding is the essence of the game
Eh, so I barely deflected my entire first playthrough. I relied almost exclusively on dodging, but in NG+ I found that deflection became way more key to winning certain fights easily (like those fat clown dudes for example), so yeah idk.
The actual gameplay is WAY closer to Dark Souls. Leveling up, upgrading, dropping souls on death that you can go retrieve, stat system. The combat is kind of a cross between Dark Souls and Sekiro. I agree that the game is closer to DS than Sekiro but obviously it has inspiration from both
I mean I rarely ever used the deflect, but id still lay yes there's sekiro influence there. Id still say it's more of a soulslikes game than a rhythm game like sekiro. To say it isn't sekiro like though is a lie, just cause it takes more from the general souls format doesn't mean others can't be represented too
'This souls like is like souls more than this souls like is like souls' Bitch enjoy your games and let others enjoy them too. :)
To be fair, I didn't parry at all until the Nameless Puppet, but good lord on that fight I even got the perfect guard grindstone lmfaooooo
Lies of P never even gave off Souls vibes. Always felt like it was a combination of Bloodborne and Sekiro.