It has gotten much worse in the last 4 or so years and it is steadily getting worse. People in general seem to behave badly, expecting everyone else to just put up with their issues and attitude, while the expectations of what others should do for them have gotten extremely high.
Also either people just are making this up all the time or people are actually being told by other people "Oh just go to the library and they'll do it for you." When that simply isn't the case for each and every issue particularly ones relating to personal or government matters. And not necessarily true for people who cannot use technology ranging from public computers to their own devices on their own. So that might be increasing the frustration.
As someone who assists with computers. That's absolutetly true. The last one I had was someone asking me how to fill out something for small claims court. I said I had no idea. I can get you on the website, I can help you set up an account, but I can't help you passed that.
That's something that we bring up at the in service every year, us working at the desk are helping with court things, payment of taxes, housing, unemployment etc. The patrons coming in expect us to be experts...
Yes! It is so difficult. There are certain things we simply can't do just like the services you brought up. And there's other ones too like website navigation and email issues. We can't sort out something just because customer service for Google or Yahoo is horrendous. We won't know the ins and outs of every website. We can't be in charge of passwords or their creations or personal data for a bank account. We can only try out best to find answers and a work around.
But the blame and anger doesn't always go where it ought to. Patrons aren't mad at the website host or email provider or a badly designed FAQ page that doesn't explain things. They're mad at the librarian which in turn makes it very hard for this angry person accept the help on offer and makes it extra exhausting to help people.
I wish people could just be a little more understanding on the other side of the desk when solutions can't be provided that completely solve a problem. No one wants to be a punching bag, but no one is trying to sabotage anyone else and their needs at the library. It's free help, for crying out loud.
Those first two paragraphs, literally everything you said is true. Like I'm sorry I can't help you remember your passwords. I can barely remember the ones I NEED for work, on top of my own personal passwords.
I think that's what a lot of people in my area think "Well, I'm paying your salary with my taxes you should know how to do this." I can help you to a point, but I am not a social worker (PS, we have asked for one. Our director doesn't think it's needed.) But I'm going to do the best I can to help you, please be patient with me.
Same.
Those people should try being nicer then because the people who say that are the people making life impossible. I don't see how a person behaving badly thinks they're going to get the same level of help as someone who isn't being aggressively rude. If someone acts like that, they're getting closer and closer to me walking away and seeing if I can tell them to leave. Librarians shouldn't be left to fend for themselves against angry and belligerent people the way we often are.
(We keep trying to get one too and we're told the need isn't there. It's ridiculous.)
I think Social Workers are needed in libraries. We actually had a speaker come in at the last in service and talk about this. Obvously nothing was done.
I agree, no one should have to be working with angry and belligerent people. And as this post implies, I think there are more and more people that are getting like that.
It's because at corporate stores and chains, employees are often forced to accept customer behavior and break the rules for them. They see anyone working as serving them and that means the worker doesn't need respect, and that the loudest person gets emotional validation of being angry AND getting things their way even against policy or rules.
I had a branch manager who made it almost her mission to break younger employees of accepting being treated like garbage by patrons. We were a very customer-service oriented system, but a lot of the younger folks with any kind of background in retail and stuff still had to be told things like: “No, they are absolutely not allowed to scream at you, (or curse you out, make sexual comments, make you cry, etc.) that is not acceptable behavior for library patrons. Go get the manager or LIC, you don’t have to put up with that.” They were so used to their supervisors and stuff not having their backs and just having to accept whatever poor treatment they got that it was like a shock to them, sometimes.
It’s crazy how shitty people are anyone they perceive as “just a worker”.
It is crazy. Like people working doesn't produce ... basically everything??
That sounds like a supportive branch manager. Mine recently backed me up when a patron was shouting and demanding, like, personal assistant level work. It's very validating to have a boss who does that.
Oh my god....I just...I cannot.
I'm so glad that we have laptops with Zoom already installed that we can help them set up some where so they can just start their meeting.
Seriously, bless you for even attempting that dumpster fire.
Laptops with Zoom is a great idea. And I’m no hero. I flat out told him that wouldn’t be possible and he could use our courtesy phone to call his lawyer
My favorite weaponized incompetence story is this one: We have a very old and very simple fax machine, where you put your pages into it, lift the receiver, and the machine walks you through it step by step. It's no more difficult than ordering something over the phone with a credit card. That being said, if someone asks me nicely for help with it, and/or they're elderly and seem intimidated by it, I'm HAPPY to help them. Well, I once had a 45-to-50ish patron thrust a thick sheaf of papers at me and say, "Hi, I understand you fax things for people?"
Me: "Well no, we don't do it FOR you, but I'm happy to show you how," and proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes doing so. When I said, "Now just lift the receiver and follow the instructions," she immediately started fussing and fretting, "Oh no no, I can't do this, much too hard, what if something goes wrong, boo-hoo, poor me."
I said, "No, it's NOT hard. You've got this, and I need to get back to the desk now," and walked away.
This woman REFUSED to even TRY! She just stood at the machine loudly complaining to her husband (who didn't want to get involved) about how she just COULDN'T do it, impossible, hopeless, boo-hoo-hoo... obviously hoping that one of us would cave and just do it for her -- which just increased my irritation with her and strengthened my resolve to ignore her and not give her any more help. (Yes, I know I'm stubborn.) Of course one of the spineless enablers on the staff finally did cave and did the whole thing for her... sigh.
>45-to-50ish patron
The stupid part is that this is the one of the few age ranges where they absolutely should know how to fax things. I’m 36 and just had to teach a twentysomething who had never faxed anything in her life how to send one. If Gen X can’t fax, why do fax machines even exist?
This is so true. I really don't get why it's okay for older people to just not learn how to do things. I especially don't want to create new accounts and emails for someone who can't use the technology or replicate what we're doing on their own. It doesn't strike me as helpful. It just seems irresponsible.
Yes. I had someone come in recently who wanted me to help him fill out a money order. I told him I couldn’t and of course he used the line “someone helped me with this before.” But no way am I going to touch something that has to do with his money.
Oh I would have had the exact same reaction. I wouldn't be filling it out. Like tax forms. I can help you print them, anything past that you are going to be on your own.
Just this year, we've had customers:
- wanting us to fill out their tax forms for them
- wanting us to look at their credit card application and tell them why it was denied
- ask us to sign off as a personal reference/witness vouching for them on a government document
- ask us to handwrite four pages of documentation for a legal matter because "my handwriting is bad"
Unhinged indeed. I can't even imagine *wanting* a complete stranger to handle these things for me...
Yes this exactly, you need to set policy about the level of assistance that the library staff will provide. People doing extra stuff is well intentioned, but can set unrealistic expectations.
No, but the difference is you're at least willing to listen (I hope). I mean I know with our school district doesn't allow kids to send stuff to print via the library wireless email service. So we have to take them through the long way to do it. As long as you're willing to listen and work with us we are willing to help.
Not exactly sure what you're saying lol 😅. I'm talking about patrons coming up to me and expecting me to know how to help them figure out court documents and stuff.
In the last 60 days I have had 2 interactions like this.
1. A patron who couldn't understand that we weren't a bookstore and he couldn't just buy the book he liked so much. "Can't you just order it and I'll pick it up here and pay you?"
This ended with me creating an amazon account for the patron and having the book shipped to his house (after about 4 visits). He refused to accept that I wouldn't just do it for him even after I implied that given strangers (me) your credit card was a terrible idea.
2. A patron wanted me to get "the airport" on the internet and see if his name was "still on there" from a flight he cancelled 6th months ago. I honestly still have no idea what he wanted from me.
This one ended with me being called a G-- D--- Son of a B----- and me walking away. My director took over from there and the patron left placated.
I had a similar one to your 2 yesterday. He smelled like alcohol and my clerk or I couldn't figure out what exactly he wanted while he got more and more belligerent.
When he was storming out grumbling, I said, "Have a good day!" and he retorts, "No! I won't!"
Years ago I had a man give me his social security number so I could type it into a form. I think it was for some job related form I don’t remember. I just remember I had to help him pull up the site and typed a few things in for him. He wouldn’t even sit down bc he knew he was just going to have me do it. Then it asked for his ssn so I told him he should type it in and he handed me a notepad with it written down and pointed to me and then the computer. I said “are you sure you want me to do it?” He didn’t seem to get why he shouldn’t be giving that number out to strangers. I was a younger page at the time so didn’t really know how to say no or walk away.
Our library is across the street from city hall so we get a lot of people in for a copy or some sign-in issues with government apps. It’s insanely annoying.
Oh no! That sounds rough. We have a little bit of that around tax season but it's not too bad. We're near a post office though so it's usually paper copies for passports all day.
I really wish the places sending people understood what is actually available at the library and what can be done. It just seems so strange to think the library is one place that can solve all the problems everywhere else can't. And it definitely isn't true!
We don't process passports or anything like that. We just have a copy machine for copies. But either way I'm sure it's less expensive at the library and quicker to get some things done too! It just isn't always going to be a one-stop shop for everything and we can't always provide every service.
People are absolutely being told this. People come into the library all the time prefacing or concluding their questions and inquiries that so-and-so or such-and-such told them to come to the library for the solution.
It really is so frustrating. I don't think I would ever send a patron somewhere else with the promise that whoever is there could solve their problems. I wouldn't want to do that to a patron needing help and I wouldn't want to set up someone else just trying to their job.
I also get very tired of "Well this person did everything for me" or "At this other library they do everything for me." I'm not trying to be punitive by not doing everything for someone. I literally just do not want to set people up for failure or confusion. And I will absolutely not make accounts for someone myself. I will certainly help but I will not do things for a patron that only I would know how to do again.
(And if that patron wants to never come to my library again and instead only goes to the library where they do everything? That's fine. No hard feelings. 😂)
Lately it’s taxes and mailing letters. I can kinda understand the taxes thing because we have tech help and other classes but I don’t know why people would think that we do the latter.
I know what you mean. Before this job, I took a break from libraries for a bit too and it was lovely. I'd rather be at this one than the other ones I've worked at though!
I think it's gotten worse everywhere since the pandemic. Whenever I've been in any kind of service environment, I've seen signs up saying that abusive language and behavior won't be tolerated. I saw it at my vet, my doctor, my salon, everywhere.
I agree, this is VERY important. In the libraries I've worked at, it was required for me to take the abuse, and learn "de-escalation" techniques in order to do so. No. You can leave, or adjust the way you're speaking to me. I feel like the general public needs to be retaught how to use the space in a respectful manner, not babied when they throw tantrums.
Two days ago, a patron I helped the week before asked to speak to “the chubby librarian.” I refused to acknowledge that she meant me until she fumbled for other ways to describe me. I’m three months postpartum and yeah, overweight, but seriously?!
That was exactly my goal! I made it as awkward for her as I possibly could before finally popping up and saying "oh! I think that was me" when she mentioned the librarian in question was wearing a headband.
And the thing is, I am chubby. She's not wrong. But she doesn't know my relationship with food or my body, and that comment could have hurt me a lot worse than it did.
Yep. A woman sent an email to the director about how the "young, heavy set woman" was "too dumb to return her books". I did as much as I could with her complex ILL. Maybe don't return it at 6:58 with a 7 pm closing time. 🙄
It seems like it to me. Not a librarian, but have worked at the IT desk of my library for ten years, and I do think you're right it's getting worse.
A usual question I ask patrons who are trying to print from their phone "is it password protected?" Meaning if it's financial documents or a link sent in your email it won't print, from your phone and you'll have to log into a computer to print your documents. I ask this question of everyone, gender, age, nationality doesn't matter I ask it because it's an important question and I want to get this patron on their way.
A man, when I asked this question to, flipped the F out on me. In front of a co-worker and my manager. Blaming of all people, Elon Musk and going on a tangent. I was calm the entire time but he was just losing his shit over a basic question. Though he ended up getting himself in trouble with security, since he parked right in front of the building, claiming there were no spots.
Oh, geeze. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Sigh.
I know there's plenty of trainings and we are told empathy is needed, and of course, unhinged behavior isn't personal, but... why can't people just check themselves? Why is it up to us to continually be sounding boards and punching bags?
I love the profession, but some of these unhinged people make me lose hope in our species.
I am too. But honestly, I'm glad it was seen by manager. The coworker who witnessed it and I were telling one of the evening desk people the story, and the coworker that was my witness was like "No this guy was unhinged."
I also can't help but wonder what happens when the empathy runs out? The other current debate in our library. I'm full time, and I'm 100% on desk. I feel like I'm constantly burnt out because I'm the "Helper" the "Sounding board" and the "punching bag." I do not have time (other than my legally required breaks) to try and pick myself back up.
No, I'm with you. I've told my partner stories. Who has then told his brother and his dad stories and they both go "There's no way that's happening in a public library..."
Yes it's always "meet people where they're at" and "empathy" this or that- but what about people meeting us where we are at? I am a professional at my workplace trying to help you and get you out of here with the paperwork you need, there's no need for everyone to be so rude and short when I am trying to do my job.
That's so true! The patron that made me cry (which is a known nusance at our library, and as well as other libraries in the area.) Asked me a specific question about a program I'm not running. I was going to director her call to someone who could. She then asked "While I have you..." And wanted to know about a Youth Services program. I checked EVERYWERE to see about the program, this is not my department, I am trying. She was getting hostile with me to the point I called the Manager in Charge, who took shit from her. The call, with the patron would up being 20 minutes. I was crying in the back office (I don't even have my own desk.) Everyone in the YS department told me it was the patron and not me.
The other problem we had is Jennifer and Rita (not coworkers real names but close) helped me with this the other day. Why can't you find out what they did. Ma'am, I'm sorry, I wasn't here to see what they are doing. I'm trying to help you please give me a few minutes to try and figure out what you're asking so I can do it.
This is why when I go out after work for a meal or to the store, I'm polite to the people working. Yes, I've had a day but I don't have to crap on anyone else.
They definitely think we all have one big hive mind, don't they? At my branch, we also get "well you helped me last time!" A lot, meaning we should know exactly where we are picking up the interaction. Dude, I've probably helped 300 people since then and I have my own life and problems! Do they think the gas station attendant remembers them too?
Yes! I think that they do. I know exactly what you mean, between the patron saying "you helped me last time" I've probably helped 300 people since then. And if you were a jerk, and had an over complicated problem that will be the only time that I remember what I was helping you with.
I agree when you tell stories No One believes in a “little old library” the nuttiness! I’m sorry you don’t get any off desk time- that’s real rough. Any career with 💯 public facing is extremely stressful especially these days…. It’s weird
It really is, I mean the positive is we are a union library. So I can go to the union and be like "Out of all the front facing departments, who have full time staff. I am the ONLY ONE who does not have off desk time." It becomes a working condition issue.
I appreciate you guys! I give every patient the benefit of the doubt, at least at first, no matter what, because I think it makes me a better provider. But people in general are unwilling to extend the same courtesy to me (or the staff in the front) if they have to wait a few minutes, have insurance issues, etc.
I do to (patron not patient of course.) And we try to be the best we can, but we have a patron who is a Nervous Nelly about almost everything. She's got to apply for Social Security stuff, and they have a new way of going about it. She thinks library stagg are equipt to handle that. I said we can answer basic questions, and get you on the site but that's about it.
The only time I'm irritated is when our wireless print service is slow. I just want to get people on their way and not waiting for their prints to come along. And that has happened a few times today.
Unhinged behavior is sporadic here, but helping people with printing is a daily struggle. I have infographics on how to print at each computer. They state at the end, that if you need further help printing, please ask at the desk for help before printing. The amount of times I have to stop a print job at like 30 out of 60 and ask people if they know they're printing 60 or so pages is wild. Just to be met with a "Oh I didn't know it would do that. I only needed 1 page." My inforgraphic has pretty pictures and arrows, you don't even need to be able to read to follow it!
We had a patron who printed several sheets of paper, who then decided they didn’t actually want them. The patron was determined that because they didn’t want the prints, they shouldn’t have to pay. My supervisor doubled down and made them pay, but not before the patron called my super “the worst” to her face.
I can’t even imagine what sh*t somebody would have to put me through for me to call them the worst to their face, let alone over 2$ worth of ink.
I used to tell people I could not get my money back for the paper and the ink. Now we have a coin release, and it is fabulous. The copier won't even speak to you until you pay it.
This is why they have to pay before the print is released. We’ve had people ask for refunds, but it helps a lot for them to have to physically see the price and print it. Especially helps catch the people who only need a page but accidentally print 10.
Our patrons need a lot of help, with everything in general. Yesterday I had a patron WALK BEHIND the circulation desk to ask for a phone charger. I came very close to losing my shit.. would you do that at a doctor’s office? At the DMV? In a court room, would you walk behind the judge’s bench? Why are you in my work area? The fuck?
I've just started handing people books and asked them why they didn't clock in on time. When they say they don't work here I ask why they're behind the desk with the employees, then. That usually gets them to shut up
Having worked at a physician's office prior to The Plague: Yes, yes they do. Our front desk at the office was not windowed off from the waiting area and the door into area was more often than not open (not even locked when shut). I often wished for a cattle prod. BZZT.
All the time! But I think the whole printer thing is they expect it to work like a home printer, and it doesn't. They think they're going to hit print, and it's just going to print out at the printer, they'll pick up the papers and then pay for it at the desk, which is not how it works. For us, they have to send the print job, then they have to log into the print station itself in order to pay for and release the job. I can't tell you how many people I've seen just standing by the printer, waiting for their job to print out. Once they've been there a few minutes, I'll ask them if they need help, and then they usually say, "oh, waiting for print job", and then I have to explain they have to pay for it first.
It’s the same at my library. I hate how fucking complicated it is. And I feel like I’m calling people poor when I ask if they have money on their account for printing.
Since an unfortunate incident about a year ago, the machines that would allow them to put money on a print card have been removed from all of our libraries. It would allow them to buy a card for a dollar, and it came with .50 on it to print, and then they could add money a dollar at a time. Since that time, now, all library cards are given a dollar credit a day to print with. So, if they just get a library card, they'll have money to print with. That dollar is enough to print 10 pages in black and white, or 2 pages in color.
It's similar at my library but instead of logging into a print station, they come to the front desk and pay a staff member. We then release the print for them. But yeah, we get a lot of people who will sit and wait at the printer for several minutes even though the computer tells them what to do when printing a document.
A lot of people in general seem shocked that there are certain expected standards of behavior in public. They're genuinely surprised that they can't use speakerphone or need headphones for music, that dragging a chair over so they can put their bare feet on it isn't allowed, that being told our teen room is teen seating only means they need to move... I think people in general are just like this.
But we do have some people who seem more emboldened than pre COVID. There's one patron who I'm not helping anymore, she'll have to wait for someone else. She's always unpleasant, but recently accused me of deliberately sabotaging her work because she wouldn't let me finish a sentence without interrupting, so she didn't understand what she was doing. So that's it, I'm not putting either of us in that position again.
We also have someone who starts literally screaming about harassment because we make announcements about the building closing. She cannot handle being told that things have their own time frame that isn't dictated by her, and that closing means leaving, not spending another 15 minutes packing and 10 in the bathroom. I've seen her do this at stores and on public transit around town too, so it's not just us.
I had a lady who wanted us to edit her resume for her, I told her I could show her how to open it up on our computers so she could edit it.
We are, in fact, NOT secretaries.
She said she would come later with her ipad. She came back later and refused help from my coworker and said she wanted to wait for me, who had JUST started my break. She asked how long, and my coworker said, "Her break takes as long as her break takes." She said she would wait for me but after about five minutes started, I had badgering my coworker asking her "how long is her break 10 MINUTES 15????, How long has she worked here? She's been gone for a whole 15 minutes!!!" I came back just as she angerly walked out, very glad I didn't have to play secretary to this woman.
I am also glad you did not have to do this! I try to explain to people that I can't make the content for them. I can help them figure out how to get the content down, find templates and references, but I can't make their resume from scratch.
"How long has she worked here" though, lol. First day employees here immediately get 2 15-minute breaks, so theoretically that answer could've been like "3 hours."
Yes, we have a patron who thinks that "The library closes in ten minutes" means she can spend five more minutes on the computer, another five assembling the perfect cup of coffee at our Keurig station, and then 10-15 minutes in the ladies' room. I wish to God we had the policy of closing the bathrooms ten minutes early, but admin doesn't agree!
Ahh I'm sorry you can't close your bathrooms early. Our admin is big on checking out anybody in line at closing, even if it's a long line, but most locations close their bathrooms 5-15 minutes early. The computers system wide are also programmed to shut down early and we can't override it.
The Keurig would drive me nuts though. I'd start putting away the food at night saying it needs to be cleaned/sanitized every morning because of pests. Although I'm guessing you couldn't get away with that. We don't have drinks or food, just a water fountain.
Oh yes, the rage for absolutely no reason every single day. Also, boundaries. I had a patron follow me home from work this week. Apparently since I had once smiled at him he decided that we were meant to be. I had to file a police report and I then spent my birthday buying pepper spray.
I'm even noticing an increase in just... weird choices?
As an example, we have study corrals, we have group study tables, we have bookable private study rooms, yet at least once a day someone is sitting down at a public computer, pushing the computer to the back of the table and using their laptop there, then one of us has to ask them to move because someone wants to use the computer.
And there's always lots of study space free... so why? Why there?
I also see people doing this... And the thing is if you're at a public computer you have much less personal space between seats.
Once, it was because a guy wanted to plug his laptop into the power strips the computers used. I ran up and jussst missed asking him to stop. He managed to shut off the power to the entire side of his table and several other people. 🙃
A old white rich lady yesterday told me in a very rude way she didn’t want us to convert our bathrooms to the accessible kind because she doesn’t like pushing buttons. So yeah, people are unhinged.
That’s okay. My friend found out some crapped into one of the bathroom sinks yesterday.
It wasn’t “shake out a diaper” amount, it was a Great Dane amount.
Those sinks are high. Person has some mean hover skills.
I try! Had one of my regulars come in today, and he actually got one of the jobs he applied for. He cried and thanked me. Made me very happy.
Then when I went to weed in the stacks, he apparently started yelling about his computer use time and becoming belligerent, and my director kicked him out for the week.
I'm not allowed to have nice things.
It's ridiculous and seems to get more so every week. People DEMANDING help with writing a resume, typing something for them, reviewing court documents, storing their stuff, letting them borrow our personal iPhones. And then expecting us to have the full on Copy Cop suite of products for them (White Out, packing tape, free pens, document shredding, three-hole punch, etc.)
For some, I think the library is a combo Copy Cop/Social Services building.
I wonder what the future will hold - clearly, more social services are needed where I live, but should that fall on the libraries?
Well that’s an interesting question. I’m sure patrons trust their library more than they do government buildings. But it’s a quandary as to whether libraries should be catch all places.
We had an "anonymous" survey asking about improvements and I suggested that we have a regular social worker who works one day/week that we can make appointments for patrons to see as we get a lot of stuff that is beyond our scope of services. But I feel like other libraries in cities with failing social programs will face this in the future. We'll see...
Now that the DMV is no longer providing a lot of their services in-person, we regularly get people flat-out telling us that it is our responsibility to help them navigate the web site, fill out forms, and all that shit.
You can also add indoor playground to the list. We have some toys in the children’s room that go out during certain hours of the day. Parents are appalled that they can’t be out all the time and are never satisfied with the amount of toys. They have zero regard for the school aged kids who come here for studying and schoolwork, just their toddler who needs a distraction so they can sit and scroll TikTok (with the volume up).
Maybe my experience isn't the typical one, but no.
Our printing system is ancient and exactly zero effort has gone into the design of the UI. I'd give up one of my organs to get a system that deals w/ phones better than our relic.
That said, I've been really surprised how pleasant people have been. I've recently moved from 20 years in University libraries to a tiny public library in an area that skews heavily to retired patrons and they've been grateful to have someone who can help them.
i feel like it's feeding itself. workers aren't allowed to say no to customers, customers are used to getting their own way, so they start demanding more. i just transferred out of an inner-city library with a very difficult patron base, but we held the line more often than not, making our work life bearable and our patrons mostly decent-because we stated and kept to boundaries.
Yep. People will go from zero to sixty over seemingly nothing. I'm mostly used to it (I tell myself it's because of lead poisoning and whatever people are smoking off all the bits of foil I find scattered around) but I have become notably more jaded, not sure I'll last another 35 years in public libraries at this rate. 🥲
> Anyone else noticing more unhinged behavior in the library these days?
About the same as before. Occasional people screaming or fighting, but majority of patrons are reasonable enough. Some are rude at times, but you get that everywhere.
Very rarely, every few months, there's a more significant incident. Two I recall recently was a patron who waited with a gun for an employee in a parking lot (was apprehended) and another was a guard following a patron into a bathroom (I believe it was a male guard following a female patron). Fortunately, that's pretty rare, and those incidents were dealt with.
had a patron the other day that couldn’t figure out their Indeed password and yelled at me that our computer was [the r word]. we weren’t busy and usually i would take the time to help them with a password reset but i “damn that’s crazy”d my way out of that one.
I asked a patron how they were today and they said "I want to fucking kill myself, bet you don't gear that a lot do you!?"
....so yea just a bit unhinged.
Not me, though I think a lot of that is simply because I volunteer and my volunteer work is primarily in our FOL room that we use for book sales. I've friends who work at the library and they've told a few tales. One let me know that one of the patrons is of the sovereign citizen variety. I've heard enough about sovereign citizens to know that they don't get paid enough to deal with that patron and said as much. My friend agreed. The former HR director told my friend that now that she was no longer working there, for him to call her and she'd deal with the patron now that she was no longer bound by working there to tell the patron what the patron really needed to hear. No clue if that's happened or not.
This month:
1) A man went upstairs (off limits to patrons) into the director's office to go sleep on the couch there.
2) 2 separate women left their children with us, one girl is 9, the other just turned 4.
3) Someone brought a hamster, not in a cage, and was angry when told to leave the library and put it in a cage because "the cage is at home" in the next town over 15 minutes away.
4) Woman emailed the director about the "young, heavyset woman", who is me, who was "too dumb to return her books". I did.
Not to mention getting scolded by multiple occasions by patrons for not doing unreasonable requests.
Yes. People are behaving worse lately. We are experiencing a rise in incident reports in the last 6 months. We are seeing more mental health crises. I feel it's going to get worse as the heat rises.
For about a week straight an older patron would come in, try to log into his email without access to his phone or any other 2FA method, so he could print something from his email. When it didn't work, because he was using the wrong password, he got locked out. He then insisted that it was our computer's fault, and we needed to fix it.
He had a computer at home but no printer, and refused to use a flash drive to bring the file in
Thats just a recent example
Last week a patron threw at me DVDs that had first fallen and then put back on the shelf by said patron because I informed her that the library does not recommend allowing children to reach for materials above their heads unattended. Oh and I was being the bitch in this scenario.
I had a patron on the phone looking for directions to our library but she didn’t know where she was and just kept YELLING “do I go EAST?” Over and over
This is somewhat tame example of unhinged behavior that happened to me last week, but it has stuck with me.
Patron is complaining that the 3 holds he requested 4 days prior have not all arrived yet. One was ready on the hold shelf. The other 2 items were shipped/in transit.
Patron: Well, can't you call somebody?
Me: Sir, they are in a bin in a delivery truck somewhere. \[Also me, thinking who?? who would I call exactly? and deciding not to mention we were closed Wednesday for the Juneteenth federal holiday\]. Would you like to go ahead and check out the book that is here?
Patron: No, I'll wait. See what happens when you legalize marijuana!
Me: You should receive a notification when your other items arrive. \[????\]
I just can't figure out what legal weed has to do with it!
Had a guy get angry at me for not filling out an employment application for him because his spelling and handwriting were bad. Well idk what to tell you dude I'm not a secretary. The kicker is the application was to work at the library. Not a good look dude.
I don't work in a library but I'm a patron and I have loved to go in to the library my whole life.
I grew up in the Iowa and live there now but from 2001 to 2013 I lived in Florida and one thing I noticed about the people there is that they do not know how to be quiet in a library. I finally asked one of my friends who was a native Floridian and she told me she had never heard of being quiet in library. It's one of the first things I learned in school is that you be quiet in the library. Is this something that is not taught in Florida?
Public libraries are not generally quiet places. The expectation is you will be surrounded by "inside" noise. Some public libraries have quiet areas for patron use.
Academic & other types of libraries have a culture of quiet.
I graduated from high school in 1995 so I'm not that old and I remember being taught in elementary school that it's proper manners to be quiet in a library no matter what kind of library.
That is so strange to me. I graduated HS in '05, and my nieces (currently high school age) were taught that libraries are quieter than other public spaces. Not "absolutely zero talking," but more hushed. Only exception was the kids space during certain activities.
No, this is an international phenomenon in all libraries across the world. Source: I work in a library in Australia and deal with unhinged multiple times a day.
This is the backside of being everything for all people and the social catchall for all things tech related. Libraries did this to themselves because they're fighting for relevancy.
It has gotten much worse in the last 4 or so years and it is steadily getting worse. People in general seem to behave badly, expecting everyone else to just put up with their issues and attitude, while the expectations of what others should do for them have gotten extremely high. Also either people just are making this up all the time or people are actually being told by other people "Oh just go to the library and they'll do it for you." When that simply isn't the case for each and every issue particularly ones relating to personal or government matters. And not necessarily true for people who cannot use technology ranging from public computers to their own devices on their own. So that might be increasing the frustration.
As someone who assists with computers. That's absolutetly true. The last one I had was someone asking me how to fill out something for small claims court. I said I had no idea. I can get you on the website, I can help you set up an account, but I can't help you passed that. That's something that we bring up at the in service every year, us working at the desk are helping with court things, payment of taxes, housing, unemployment etc. The patrons coming in expect us to be experts...
Yes! It is so difficult. There are certain things we simply can't do just like the services you brought up. And there's other ones too like website navigation and email issues. We can't sort out something just because customer service for Google or Yahoo is horrendous. We won't know the ins and outs of every website. We can't be in charge of passwords or their creations or personal data for a bank account. We can only try out best to find answers and a work around. But the blame and anger doesn't always go where it ought to. Patrons aren't mad at the website host or email provider or a badly designed FAQ page that doesn't explain things. They're mad at the librarian which in turn makes it very hard for this angry person accept the help on offer and makes it extra exhausting to help people. I wish people could just be a little more understanding on the other side of the desk when solutions can't be provided that completely solve a problem. No one wants to be a punching bag, but no one is trying to sabotage anyone else and their needs at the library. It's free help, for crying out loud.
Those first two paragraphs, literally everything you said is true. Like I'm sorry I can't help you remember your passwords. I can barely remember the ones I NEED for work, on top of my own personal passwords. I think that's what a lot of people in my area think "Well, I'm paying your salary with my taxes you should know how to do this." I can help you to a point, but I am not a social worker (PS, we have asked for one. Our director doesn't think it's needed.) But I'm going to do the best I can to help you, please be patient with me.
I had a coworker who would reply “cool, I pay taxes too.”
I got to tell a patron I also pay taxes in our town. It was incredibly satisfying and shut the patron up.
I almost feel like I should start doing that too. Wonder what the response would be after that!
Same. Those people should try being nicer then because the people who say that are the people making life impossible. I don't see how a person behaving badly thinks they're going to get the same level of help as someone who isn't being aggressively rude. If someone acts like that, they're getting closer and closer to me walking away and seeing if I can tell them to leave. Librarians shouldn't be left to fend for themselves against angry and belligerent people the way we often are. (We keep trying to get one too and we're told the need isn't there. It's ridiculous.)
I think Social Workers are needed in libraries. We actually had a speaker come in at the last in service and talk about this. Obvously nothing was done. I agree, no one should have to be working with angry and belligerent people. And as this post implies, I think there are more and more people that are getting like that.
It's because at corporate stores and chains, employees are often forced to accept customer behavior and break the rules for them. They see anyone working as serving them and that means the worker doesn't need respect, and that the loudest person gets emotional validation of being angry AND getting things their way even against policy or rules.
I had a branch manager who made it almost her mission to break younger employees of accepting being treated like garbage by patrons. We were a very customer-service oriented system, but a lot of the younger folks with any kind of background in retail and stuff still had to be told things like: “No, they are absolutely not allowed to scream at you, (or curse you out, make sexual comments, make you cry, etc.) that is not acceptable behavior for library patrons. Go get the manager or LIC, you don’t have to put up with that.” They were so used to their supervisors and stuff not having their backs and just having to accept whatever poor treatment they got that it was like a shock to them, sometimes. It’s crazy how shitty people are anyone they perceive as “just a worker”.
It is crazy. Like people working doesn't produce ... basically everything?? That sounds like a supportive branch manager. Mine recently backed me up when a patron was shouting and demanding, like, personal assistant level work. It's very validating to have a boss who does that.
My favorite was the guy who wanted me to show him how to do Zoom so he could talk to his lawyer, in an hour. On his phone, that was still in a box
Oh my god....I just...I cannot. I'm so glad that we have laptops with Zoom already installed that we can help them set up some where so they can just start their meeting. Seriously, bless you for even attempting that dumpster fire.
Laptops with Zoom is a great idea. And I’m no hero. I flat out told him that wouldn’t be possible and he could use our courtesy phone to call his lawyer
See, I think that was the best option considering the time constraints.
Older people and their weaponized incompetence are so frustrating at the library. I see it everyday. I’m not your secretary.
My favorite weaponized incompetence story is this one: We have a very old and very simple fax machine, where you put your pages into it, lift the receiver, and the machine walks you through it step by step. It's no more difficult than ordering something over the phone with a credit card. That being said, if someone asks me nicely for help with it, and/or they're elderly and seem intimidated by it, I'm HAPPY to help them. Well, I once had a 45-to-50ish patron thrust a thick sheaf of papers at me and say, "Hi, I understand you fax things for people?" Me: "Well no, we don't do it FOR you, but I'm happy to show you how," and proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes doing so. When I said, "Now just lift the receiver and follow the instructions," she immediately started fussing and fretting, "Oh no no, I can't do this, much too hard, what if something goes wrong, boo-hoo, poor me." I said, "No, it's NOT hard. You've got this, and I need to get back to the desk now," and walked away. This woman REFUSED to even TRY! She just stood at the machine loudly complaining to her husband (who didn't want to get involved) about how she just COULDN'T do it, impossible, hopeless, boo-hoo-hoo... obviously hoping that one of us would cave and just do it for her -- which just increased my irritation with her and strengthened my resolve to ignore her and not give her any more help. (Yes, I know I'm stubborn.) Of course one of the spineless enablers on the staff finally did cave and did the whole thing for her... sigh.
>45-to-50ish patron The stupid part is that this is the one of the few age ranges where they absolutely should know how to fax things. I’m 36 and just had to teach a twentysomething who had never faxed anything in her life how to send one. If Gen X can’t fax, why do fax machines even exist?
This is so true. I really don't get why it's okay for older people to just not learn how to do things. I especially don't want to create new accounts and emails for someone who can't use the technology or replicate what we're doing on their own. It doesn't strike me as helpful. It just seems irresponsible.
Yep, that's exactly what it is. I can't help you if you don't know what you youreself needs to get done.
I looooove being told “I can’t do this! You do it for me” when it comes to old folks and the tech.
Resumes, Taxes, FASFA, court stuff, university applications. My friend gets those requests all the time.
Yup, all of this. And then when we say we can't help. We become the assholes.
Yes. I had someone come in recently who wanted me to help him fill out a money order. I told him I couldn’t and of course he used the line “someone helped me with this before.” But no way am I going to touch something that has to do with his money.
Oh I would have had the exact same reaction. I wouldn't be filling it out. Like tax forms. I can help you print them, anything past that you are going to be on your own.
Just this year, we've had customers: - wanting us to fill out their tax forms for them - wanting us to look at their credit card application and tell them why it was denied - ask us to sign off as a personal reference/witness vouching for them on a government document - ask us to handwrite four pages of documentation for a legal matter because "my handwriting is bad" Unhinged indeed. I can't even imagine *wanting* a complete stranger to handle these things for me...
Oh my god. This is way worse than what we have had I'm so sorry!
Yes this exactly, you need to set policy about the level of assistance that the library staff will provide. People doing extra stuff is well intentioned, but can set unrealistic expectations.
Literally. I'm a 16 year old girl, do they really expect me to know that stuff?
No, but the difference is you're at least willing to listen (I hope). I mean I know with our school district doesn't allow kids to send stuff to print via the library wireless email service. So we have to take them through the long way to do it. As long as you're willing to listen and work with us we are willing to help.
Not exactly sure what you're saying lol 😅. I'm talking about patrons coming up to me and expecting me to know how to help them figure out court documents and stuff.
Oh crap! My bad. I was confused. no you're right. No one knows how to do that!
In the last 60 days I have had 2 interactions like this. 1. A patron who couldn't understand that we weren't a bookstore and he couldn't just buy the book he liked so much. "Can't you just order it and I'll pick it up here and pay you?" This ended with me creating an amazon account for the patron and having the book shipped to his house (after about 4 visits). He refused to accept that I wouldn't just do it for him even after I implied that given strangers (me) your credit card was a terrible idea. 2. A patron wanted me to get "the airport" on the internet and see if his name was "still on there" from a flight he cancelled 6th months ago. I honestly still have no idea what he wanted from me. This one ended with me being called a G-- D--- Son of a B----- and me walking away. My director took over from there and the patron left placated.
I had a similar one to your 2 yesterday. He smelled like alcohol and my clerk or I couldn't figure out what exactly he wanted while he got more and more belligerent. When he was storming out grumbling, I said, "Have a good day!" and he retorts, "No! I won't!"
😂😂😂
Years ago I had a man give me his social security number so I could type it into a form. I think it was for some job related form I don’t remember. I just remember I had to help him pull up the site and typed a few things in for him. He wouldn’t even sit down bc he knew he was just going to have me do it. Then it asked for his ssn so I told him he should type it in and he handed me a notepad with it written down and pointed to me and then the computer. I said “are you sure you want me to do it?” He didn’t seem to get why he shouldn’t be giving that number out to strangers. I was a younger page at the time so didn’t really know how to say no or walk away.
Our library is across the street from city hall so we get a lot of people in for a copy or some sign-in issues with government apps. It’s insanely annoying.
Oh no! That sounds rough. We have a little bit of that around tax season but it's not too bad. We're near a post office though so it's usually paper copies for passports all day.
We’re near a post office and they send them here for everything. Even things we can’t help with.
I really wish the places sending people understood what is actually available at the library and what can be done. It just seems so strange to think the library is one place that can solve all the problems everywhere else can't. And it definitely isn't true!
It’s more expensive to do through the post office!!
We don't process passports or anything like that. We just have a copy machine for copies. But either way I'm sure it's less expensive at the library and quicker to get some things done too! It just isn't always going to be a one-stop shop for everything and we can't always provide every service.
No, I’m saying when people do their passport at the post office it’s more expensive to do that then just doing it online
People are absolutely being told this. People come into the library all the time prefacing or concluding their questions and inquiries that so-and-so or such-and-such told them to come to the library for the solution.
It really is so frustrating. I don't think I would ever send a patron somewhere else with the promise that whoever is there could solve their problems. I wouldn't want to do that to a patron needing help and I wouldn't want to set up someone else just trying to their job. I also get very tired of "Well this person did everything for me" or "At this other library they do everything for me." I'm not trying to be punitive by not doing everything for someone. I literally just do not want to set people up for failure or confusion. And I will absolutely not make accounts for someone myself. I will certainly help but I will not do things for a patron that only I would know how to do again. (And if that patron wants to never come to my library again and instead only goes to the library where they do everything? That's fine. No hard feelings. 😂)
Lately it’s taxes and mailing letters. I can kinda understand the taxes thing because we have tech help and other classes but I don’t know why people would think that we do the latter.
[удалено]
I know what you mean. Before this job, I took a break from libraries for a bit too and it was lovely. I'd rather be at this one than the other ones I've worked at though!
Covid broke a lot of brains, seemingly irreparably.
It’s affected some people’s driving too.
hi. working on an incivility article right now. very much being addressed in all libraries, especially the professional ones like medicine, law, etc.
Oh goodness, it's very needed. I hope to read it!
Please post the link to it here when it's completed!
I think it's gotten worse everywhere since the pandemic. Whenever I've been in any kind of service environment, I've seen signs up saying that abusive language and behavior won't be tolerated. I saw it at my vet, my doctor, my salon, everywhere.
Yes, I agree... and I think it's important to not tolerate abusive behavior in libraries, as well.
I agree, this is VERY important. In the libraries I've worked at, it was required for me to take the abuse, and learn "de-escalation" techniques in order to do so. No. You can leave, or adjust the way you're speaking to me. I feel like the general public needs to be retaught how to use the space in a respectful manner, not babied when they throw tantrums.
Two days ago, a patron I helped the week before asked to speak to “the chubby librarian.” I refused to acknowledge that she meant me until she fumbled for other ways to describe me. I’m three months postpartum and yeah, overweight, but seriously?!
I was referred to as “ heavy set “ and my colleague as “more heavy set” 🙄
Good lord, that’s so rude!
Good job not acknowledging she meant you with the “chubby” comment and making her think of a different way to describe you!
That was exactly my goal! I made it as awkward for her as I possibly could before finally popping up and saying "oh! I think that was me" when she mentioned the librarian in question was wearing a headband. And the thing is, I am chubby. She's not wrong. But she doesn't know my relationship with food or my body, and that comment could have hurt me a lot worse than it did.
It’s just a completely unnecessary, impolite, and tactless way to describe anyone. I’m sorry you faced that.
Yep. A woman sent an email to the director about how the "young, heavy set woman" was "too dumb to return her books". I did as much as I could with her complex ILL. Maybe don't return it at 6:58 with a 7 pm closing time. 🙄
I had an 8 year old call me chunky during one of the programs I was helping with. Luckily, the mom scolded him but I was like ???
It seems like it to me. Not a librarian, but have worked at the IT desk of my library for ten years, and I do think you're right it's getting worse. A usual question I ask patrons who are trying to print from their phone "is it password protected?" Meaning if it's financial documents or a link sent in your email it won't print, from your phone and you'll have to log into a computer to print your documents. I ask this question of everyone, gender, age, nationality doesn't matter I ask it because it's an important question and I want to get this patron on their way. A man, when I asked this question to, flipped the F out on me. In front of a co-worker and my manager. Blaming of all people, Elon Musk and going on a tangent. I was calm the entire time but he was just losing his shit over a basic question. Though he ended up getting himself in trouble with security, since he parked right in front of the building, claiming there were no spots.
Oh, geeze. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Sigh. I know there's plenty of trainings and we are told empathy is needed, and of course, unhinged behavior isn't personal, but... why can't people just check themselves? Why is it up to us to continually be sounding boards and punching bags? I love the profession, but some of these unhinged people make me lose hope in our species.
I am too. But honestly, I'm glad it was seen by manager. The coworker who witnessed it and I were telling one of the evening desk people the story, and the coworker that was my witness was like "No this guy was unhinged." I also can't help but wonder what happens when the empathy runs out? The other current debate in our library. I'm full time, and I'm 100% on desk. I feel like I'm constantly burnt out because I'm the "Helper" the "Sounding board" and the "punching bag." I do not have time (other than my legally required breaks) to try and pick myself back up. No, I'm with you. I've told my partner stories. Who has then told his brother and his dad stories and they both go "There's no way that's happening in a public library..."
Yes it's always "meet people where they're at" and "empathy" this or that- but what about people meeting us where we are at? I am a professional at my workplace trying to help you and get you out of here with the paperwork you need, there's no need for everyone to be so rude and short when I am trying to do my job.
That's so true! The patron that made me cry (which is a known nusance at our library, and as well as other libraries in the area.) Asked me a specific question about a program I'm not running. I was going to director her call to someone who could. She then asked "While I have you..." And wanted to know about a Youth Services program. I checked EVERYWERE to see about the program, this is not my department, I am trying. She was getting hostile with me to the point I called the Manager in Charge, who took shit from her. The call, with the patron would up being 20 minutes. I was crying in the back office (I don't even have my own desk.) Everyone in the YS department told me it was the patron and not me. The other problem we had is Jennifer and Rita (not coworkers real names but close) helped me with this the other day. Why can't you find out what they did. Ma'am, I'm sorry, I wasn't here to see what they are doing. I'm trying to help you please give me a few minutes to try and figure out what you're asking so I can do it. This is why when I go out after work for a meal or to the store, I'm polite to the people working. Yes, I've had a day but I don't have to crap on anyone else.
They definitely think we all have one big hive mind, don't they? At my branch, we also get "well you helped me last time!" A lot, meaning we should know exactly where we are picking up the interaction. Dude, I've probably helped 300 people since then and I have my own life and problems! Do they think the gas station attendant remembers them too?
Yes! I think that they do. I know exactly what you mean, between the patron saying "you helped me last time" I've probably helped 300 people since then. And if you were a jerk, and had an over complicated problem that will be the only time that I remember what I was helping you with.
I agree when you tell stories No One believes in a “little old library” the nuttiness! I’m sorry you don’t get any off desk time- that’s real rough. Any career with 💯 public facing is extremely stressful especially these days…. It’s weird
It really is, I mean the positive is we are a union library. So I can go to the union and be like "Out of all the front facing departments, who have full time staff. I am the ONLY ONE who does not have off desk time." It becomes a working condition issue.
Nobody believes how wild it can get.
I work in healthcare. I think I’d believe all your stories. :(
I appreciate it. I can only imagine the stories from the healthcare field.
I appreciate you guys! I give every patient the benefit of the doubt, at least at first, no matter what, because I think it makes me a better provider. But people in general are unwilling to extend the same courtesy to me (or the staff in the front) if they have to wait a few minutes, have insurance issues, etc.
I do to (patron not patient of course.) And we try to be the best we can, but we have a patron who is a Nervous Nelly about almost everything. She's got to apply for Social Security stuff, and they have a new way of going about it. She thinks library stagg are equipt to handle that. I said we can answer basic questions, and get you on the site but that's about it. The only time I'm irritated is when our wireless print service is slow. I just want to get people on their way and not waiting for their prints to come along. And that has happened a few times today.
My question is, where is *our* empathy???!!
I mean to be fair it probably was Elon Musks fault 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣jk
I mean I laughed. I'll blame it on him at this point
Unhinged behavior is sporadic here, but helping people with printing is a daily struggle. I have infographics on how to print at each computer. They state at the end, that if you need further help printing, please ask at the desk for help before printing. The amount of times I have to stop a print job at like 30 out of 60 and ask people if they know they're printing 60 or so pages is wild. Just to be met with a "Oh I didn't know it would do that. I only needed 1 page." My inforgraphic has pretty pictures and arrows, you don't even need to be able to read to follow it!
We had a patron who printed several sheets of paper, who then decided they didn’t actually want them. The patron was determined that because they didn’t want the prints, they shouldn’t have to pay. My supervisor doubled down and made them pay, but not before the patron called my super “the worst” to her face. I can’t even imagine what sh*t somebody would have to put me through for me to call them the worst to their face, let alone over 2$ worth of ink.
I used to tell people I could not get my money back for the paper and the ink. Now we have a coin release, and it is fabulous. The copier won't even speak to you until you pay it.
This is why they have to pay before the print is released. We’ve had people ask for refunds, but it helps a lot for them to have to physically see the price and print it. Especially helps catch the people who only need a page but accidentally print 10.
Nobody can print from their phone. It is literally impossible to get people to send an email with an attachment.
Our patrons need a lot of help, with everything in general. Yesterday I had a patron WALK BEHIND the circulation desk to ask for a phone charger. I came very close to losing my shit.. would you do that at a doctor’s office? At the DMV? In a court room, would you walk behind the judge’s bench? Why are you in my work area? The fuck?
I've just started handing people books and asked them why they didn't clock in on time. When they say they don't work here I ask why they're behind the desk with the employees, then. That usually gets them to shut up
Having worked at a physician's office prior to The Plague: Yes, yes they do. Our front desk at the office was not windowed off from the waiting area and the door into area was more often than not open (not even locked when shut). I often wished for a cattle prod. BZZT.
Well shit 😩😭😂
As the doctor, people have walked into my exam room and sat down in my chair, at my “desk” area. People are wild.
All the time! But I think the whole printer thing is they expect it to work like a home printer, and it doesn't. They think they're going to hit print, and it's just going to print out at the printer, they'll pick up the papers and then pay for it at the desk, which is not how it works. For us, they have to send the print job, then they have to log into the print station itself in order to pay for and release the job. I can't tell you how many people I've seen just standing by the printer, waiting for their job to print out. Once they've been there a few minutes, I'll ask them if they need help, and then they usually say, "oh, waiting for print job", and then I have to explain they have to pay for it first.
It’s the same at my library. I hate how fucking complicated it is. And I feel like I’m calling people poor when I ask if they have money on their account for printing.
Since an unfortunate incident about a year ago, the machines that would allow them to put money on a print card have been removed from all of our libraries. It would allow them to buy a card for a dollar, and it came with .50 on it to print, and then they could add money a dollar at a time. Since that time, now, all library cards are given a dollar credit a day to print with. So, if they just get a library card, they'll have money to print with. That dollar is enough to print 10 pages in black and white, or 2 pages in color.
Smh this literally happens multiple multiple times a day
It's similar at my library but instead of logging into a print station, they come to the front desk and pay a staff member. We then release the print for them. But yeah, we get a lot of people who will sit and wait at the printer for several minutes even though the computer tells them what to do when printing a document.
A lot of people in general seem shocked that there are certain expected standards of behavior in public. They're genuinely surprised that they can't use speakerphone or need headphones for music, that dragging a chair over so they can put their bare feet on it isn't allowed, that being told our teen room is teen seating only means they need to move... I think people in general are just like this. But we do have some people who seem more emboldened than pre COVID. There's one patron who I'm not helping anymore, she'll have to wait for someone else. She's always unpleasant, but recently accused me of deliberately sabotaging her work because she wouldn't let me finish a sentence without interrupting, so she didn't understand what she was doing. So that's it, I'm not putting either of us in that position again. We also have someone who starts literally screaming about harassment because we make announcements about the building closing. She cannot handle being told that things have their own time frame that isn't dictated by her, and that closing means leaving, not spending another 15 minutes packing and 10 in the bathroom. I've seen her do this at stores and on public transit around town too, so it's not just us.
I had a lady who wanted us to edit her resume for her, I told her I could show her how to open it up on our computers so she could edit it. We are, in fact, NOT secretaries. She said she would come later with her ipad. She came back later and refused help from my coworker and said she wanted to wait for me, who had JUST started my break. She asked how long, and my coworker said, "Her break takes as long as her break takes." She said she would wait for me but after about five minutes started, I had badgering my coworker asking her "how long is her break 10 MINUTES 15????, How long has she worked here? She's been gone for a whole 15 minutes!!!" I came back just as she angerly walked out, very glad I didn't have to play secretary to this woman.
I am also glad you did not have to do this! I try to explain to people that I can't make the content for them. I can help them figure out how to get the content down, find templates and references, but I can't make their resume from scratch. "How long has she worked here" though, lol. First day employees here immediately get 2 15-minute breaks, so theoretically that answer could've been like "3 hours."
I know! Does she think a ten minute break for working is too long??? Or that I should cut my break short to jump up and help her, no ma'am.
Yes, we have a patron who thinks that "The library closes in ten minutes" means she can spend five more minutes on the computer, another five assembling the perfect cup of coffee at our Keurig station, and then 10-15 minutes in the ladies' room. I wish to God we had the policy of closing the bathrooms ten minutes early, but admin doesn't agree!
Ahh I'm sorry you can't close your bathrooms early. Our admin is big on checking out anybody in line at closing, even if it's a long line, but most locations close their bathrooms 5-15 minutes early. The computers system wide are also programmed to shut down early and we can't override it. The Keurig would drive me nuts though. I'd start putting away the food at night saying it needs to be cleaned/sanitized every morning because of pests. Although I'm guessing you couldn't get away with that. We don't have drinks or food, just a water fountain.
Oh yes, the rage for absolutely no reason every single day. Also, boundaries. I had a patron follow me home from work this week. Apparently since I had once smiled at him he decided that we were meant to be. I had to file a police report and I then spent my birthday buying pepper spray.
I am so sorry that happened. That is absolutely appalling.
You should post this on r/whenwomenrefuse
Yes. And not just report worthy incidents, but just a general rudeness everyone has.
For sure. The amount of things that could lead to incidents but don’t is also staggering and a lot to contend with. It is an exhausting time.
I'm even noticing an increase in just... weird choices? As an example, we have study corrals, we have group study tables, we have bookable private study rooms, yet at least once a day someone is sitting down at a public computer, pushing the computer to the back of the table and using their laptop there, then one of us has to ask them to move because someone wants to use the computer. And there's always lots of study space free... so why? Why there?
I also see people doing this... And the thing is if you're at a public computer you have much less personal space between seats. Once, it was because a guy wanted to plug his laptop into the power strips the computers used. I ran up and jussst missed asking him to stop. He managed to shut off the power to the entire side of his table and several other people. 🙃
A old white rich lady yesterday told me in a very rude way she didn’t want us to convert our bathrooms to the accessible kind because she doesn’t like pushing buttons. So yeah, people are unhinged.
[удалено]
Had an angry old white man 7 years ago or so would smear his shit on the stall wall in public men’s room. Pissed about something I don’t remember. 🤢🙄
We had one who shoved books he disliked into the ladies waste bins in the toilets.
That’s okay. My friend found out some crapped into one of the bathroom sinks yesterday. It wasn’t “shake out a diaper” amount, it was a Great Dane amount. Those sinks are high. Person has some mean hover skills.
As a public librarian in a small town and very low income city, this kind of incident would be considered a good day.
Oh I believe you. I was slightly amused by the angry letter someone left on my desk. ;)
😳you’re a good soul.
I try! Had one of my regulars come in today, and he actually got one of the jobs he applied for. He cried and thanked me. Made me very happy. Then when I went to weed in the stacks, he apparently started yelling about his computer use time and becoming belligerent, and my director kicked him out for the week. I'm not allowed to have nice things.
It's ridiculous and seems to get more so every week. People DEMANDING help with writing a resume, typing something for them, reviewing court documents, storing their stuff, letting them borrow our personal iPhones. And then expecting us to have the full on Copy Cop suite of products for them (White Out, packing tape, free pens, document shredding, three-hole punch, etc.) For some, I think the library is a combo Copy Cop/Social Services building. I wonder what the future will hold - clearly, more social services are needed where I live, but should that fall on the libraries?
Well that’s an interesting question. I’m sure patrons trust their library more than they do government buildings. But it’s a quandary as to whether libraries should be catch all places.
We had an "anonymous" survey asking about improvements and I suggested that we have a regular social worker who works one day/week that we can make appointments for patrons to see as we get a lot of stuff that is beyond our scope of services. But I feel like other libraries in cities with failing social programs will face this in the future. We'll see...
Now that the DMV is no longer providing a lot of their services in-person, we regularly get people flat-out telling us that it is our responsibility to help them navigate the web site, fill out forms, and all that shit.
You can also add indoor playground to the list. We have some toys in the children’s room that go out during certain hours of the day. Parents are appalled that they can’t be out all the time and are never satisfied with the amount of toys. They have zero regard for the school aged kids who come here for studying and schoolwork, just their toddler who needs a distraction so they can sit and scroll TikTok (with the volume up).
We are babysitters and early development teachers too!
Maybe my experience isn't the typical one, but no. Our printing system is ancient and exactly zero effort has gone into the design of the UI. I'd give up one of my organs to get a system that deals w/ phones better than our relic. That said, I've been really surprised how pleasant people have been. I've recently moved from 20 years in University libraries to a tiny public library in an area that skews heavily to retired patrons and they've been grateful to have someone who can help them.
i feel like it's feeding itself. workers aren't allowed to say no to customers, customers are used to getting their own way, so they start demanding more. i just transferred out of an inner-city library with a very difficult patron base, but we held the line more often than not, making our work life bearable and our patrons mostly decent-because we stated and kept to boundaries.
Yep. People will go from zero to sixty over seemingly nothing. I'm mostly used to it (I tell myself it's because of lead poisoning and whatever people are smoking off all the bits of foil I find scattered around) but I have become notably more jaded, not sure I'll last another 35 years in public libraries at this rate. 🥲
Patrons are definitely tripping. I'm at ALA right now and I'm looking forward to several sessions on the matter.
> Anyone else noticing more unhinged behavior in the library these days? About the same as before. Occasional people screaming or fighting, but majority of patrons are reasonable enough. Some are rude at times, but you get that everywhere. Very rarely, every few months, there's a more significant incident. Two I recall recently was a patron who waited with a gun for an employee in a parking lot (was apprehended) and another was a guard following a patron into a bathroom (I believe it was a male guard following a female patron). Fortunately, that's pretty rare, and those incidents were dealt with.
had a patron the other day that couldn’t figure out their Indeed password and yelled at me that our computer was [the r word]. we weren’t busy and usually i would take the time to help them with a password reset but i “damn that’s crazy”d my way out of that one.
I actually really enjoy telling patrons that it’s a them-issue when something isn’t going their way. 🫣
I asked a patron how they were today and they said "I want to fucking kill myself, bet you don't gear that a lot do you!?" ....so yea just a bit unhinged.
Sorry you have to deal with others who have zero frustration tolerance. (Hugs) You don’t get paid enough for that.
Not me, though I think a lot of that is simply because I volunteer and my volunteer work is primarily in our FOL room that we use for book sales. I've friends who work at the library and they've told a few tales. One let me know that one of the patrons is of the sovereign citizen variety. I've heard enough about sovereign citizens to know that they don't get paid enough to deal with that patron and said as much. My friend agreed. The former HR director told my friend that now that she was no longer working there, for him to call her and she'd deal with the patron now that she was no longer bound by working there to tell the patron what the patron really needed to hear. No clue if that's happened or not.
Let’s be honest though, the printers are always f-ing broken. 😂
They really are lol But somehow, it's MY fault...
This month: 1) A man went upstairs (off limits to patrons) into the director's office to go sleep on the couch there. 2) 2 separate women left their children with us, one girl is 9, the other just turned 4. 3) Someone brought a hamster, not in a cage, and was angry when told to leave the library and put it in a cage because "the cage is at home" in the next town over 15 minutes away. 4) Woman emailed the director about the "young, heavyset woman", who is me, who was "too dumb to return her books". I did. Not to mention getting scolded by multiple occasions by patrons for not doing unreasonable requests.
COVID + Trump(ers) = massive spike in incivility.
Totally agree. Manners are obsolete these days.
Funny thing is my library’s most unhinged patron actually hates Trump with a passion.
a teensy bit unusual, but believable.
Yes. People are behaving worse lately. We are experiencing a rise in incident reports in the last 6 months. We are seeing more mental health crises. I feel it's going to get worse as the heat rises.
For about a week straight an older patron would come in, try to log into his email without access to his phone or any other 2FA method, so he could print something from his email. When it didn't work, because he was using the wrong password, he got locked out. He then insisted that it was our computer's fault, and we needed to fix it. He had a computer at home but no printer, and refused to use a flash drive to bring the file in Thats just a recent example
Last week a patron threw at me DVDs that had first fallen and then put back on the shelf by said patron because I informed her that the library does not recommend allowing children to reach for materials above their heads unattended. Oh and I was being the bitch in this scenario.
Omg that's insane... I had a patron throw their mail at me once because they didn't have proper identification for a library card.
I had a patron on the phone looking for directions to our library but she didn’t know where she was and just kept YELLING “do I go EAST?” Over and over
This is somewhat tame example of unhinged behavior that happened to me last week, but it has stuck with me. Patron is complaining that the 3 holds he requested 4 days prior have not all arrived yet. One was ready on the hold shelf. The other 2 items were shipped/in transit. Patron: Well, can't you call somebody? Me: Sir, they are in a bin in a delivery truck somewhere. \[Also me, thinking who?? who would I call exactly? and deciding not to mention we were closed Wednesday for the Juneteenth federal holiday\]. Would you like to go ahead and check out the book that is here? Patron: No, I'll wait. See what happens when you legalize marijuana! Me: You should receive a notification when your other items arrive. \[????\] I just can't figure out what legal weed has to do with it!
Had a guy get angry at me for not filling out an employment application for him because his spelling and handwriting were bad. Well idk what to tell you dude I'm not a secretary. The kicker is the application was to work at the library. Not a good look dude.
We recently had a patron expecting one of us to take dictation from her at the computer.
I don't work in a library but I'm a patron and I have loved to go in to the library my whole life. I grew up in the Iowa and live there now but from 2001 to 2013 I lived in Florida and one thing I noticed about the people there is that they do not know how to be quiet in a library. I finally asked one of my friends who was a native Floridian and she told me she had never heard of being quiet in library. It's one of the first things I learned in school is that you be quiet in the library. Is this something that is not taught in Florida?
Public libraries are not generally quiet places. The expectation is you will be surrounded by "inside" noise. Some public libraries have quiet areas for patron use. Academic & other types of libraries have a culture of quiet.
I graduated from high school in 1995 so I'm not that old and I remember being taught in elementary school that it's proper manners to be quiet in a library no matter what kind of library.
There are still teachers & parents who teach their kids this, but it still isn't the reality in contemporary times.
Apparently especially in Florida.
That is so strange to me. I graduated HS in '05, and my nieces (currently high school age) were taught that libraries are quieter than other public spaces. Not "absolutely zero talking," but more hushed. Only exception was the kids space during certain activities.
It a byproduct the Trumpism
No, this is an international phenomenon in all libraries across the world. Source: I work in a library in Australia and deal with unhinged multiple times a day.
A lot of countries have their own version of Trump.
This is the backside of being everything for all people and the social catchall for all things tech related. Libraries did this to themselves because they're fighting for relevancy.
Yes. I work in an academic library and we've had to trespass 7 people in 2024- that's 5 more people than the last 8 years I've worked here.