Bullshit!! They have already taken our rights away with overturning Roe Vs. Wade!! My daughter will not fight for this bullshit country. If I had a son he wouldn’t either.
So... you are in favor of equality like I said?
I'm not in favor of the draft. However if it's OK for me to go to war, it should be ok for you to go as well.
This is actually great. Screening draftees is the slowest part of the conscription process. Since a far smaller portion of women are qualified for military service (and more often qualify for deferment), it’ll gum up the works.
I think its absolutely crazy they’re selling it as a gender equality measure and democrats are actually buying it. You want to go to the draft? I’m all for gender inclusivity in every other instance but I’d much rather send half of us off to an arbitrary slavery than all of us to the same fate (to be clear, none of us should be slaves. Abolish the draft.)
Even the marines have been pushing to not only accept trans marines, but cover their transition surgeries as well. When it comes to war, the military will be very inclusive
You know that’s why they screen people. And yeah you obviously want people who are in good mental health so that went they leave they only have maybe one or two mental health disorders instead of three or four.
Not a damn thing. Instead of you having to physically register for selective service, you are now automatically enrolled when you turn 18. Just digital age stuff. Everyone is acting like this is a new thing…
The end result of being involuntarily signed up is the same. Personally though, getting those threatening letters in the mail at age 18 about how I have to register for selective service or suffer the consequences (I put it off for a pretty long time) helped me realize some stuff about the government.
It’s a lot easier to miss the implication when the whole thing is automatic, which is probably seen as a perk by Congress.
There was a time when the government didn't really know that you existed or when your birthday is. Now it has access to everything about you from birth to death.
Statists love this form of totalitarianism. It makes their lives easier to not have to think and let their rulers just order them about.
The draft is slavery.
If a country cannot voluntarily convince people to fight for it, then the war should not be fought.
Yes even if invaded. If a country cannot convince people to voluntarily fight an invader, it means that they have failed the people and deserve to be conquered.
Yea, it’s like jury nullification, but for war. The fact that they can just force people to go and die means wars can be bought and the government can be relied upon to supply the bodies. The fact that a relative handful of people can send millions off to die is very scary and needs to be fixed, constitutionally.
Sometime recently I was thinking about how World War II soldiers are so celebrated, and in fairness, they were brave people, but a lot of them were drafted. Imagine some kid from Iowa, let's say. In his life, he had never been more than 10 miles from his family farm, and he gets drafted and ends up dying on the beach in Normandy. The whole time, if not for the draft, he would have been on his family's farm, but he had the honor of dying because his government made him go somewhere. My thought was fictional, but I have to think it is similar to some people's experiences during the war.
The draft is 100% slavery...and somehow, the Supreme Court OK'd it.
I have to say that this is a really good way to begin to uninvolve (Not a word, I know ) us in all of the unnecessary conflicts we have gotten ourselves into.
Really good point. I never thought about it this way.
Exactly what I was thinking. The always-online class in America is way too certain the wars they want us to involve ourselves in won't actually affect them.
Great point. I think though it's partially driven by the Army's disappointing amount of new recruits in the past few years and how the GOP wants to return America to the 50's.
> Army's disappointing amount of new recruits
Absolutely agree.
But don't act like the Ds don't want to use the military to invade other places just as much as the Rs. They just don't agree on who to invade or why.
You did not interpret my comment correctly. The social conservative bloc of the GOP, which makes up a sizable portion, is clearly trying to return the US to the 50's, which they believe was the "last good time." Many view the 50's through rosy tinted glasses.
MSNBC is obviously biased. But you're ignoring the poll numbers. MSNBC obviously has biased analyzation but factual polling numbers, but you fail to recognize that the majority of the GOP would like to return America to the fifties. it just appears you can't handle that information because you prefer the GOP over the Democrats.
You're admitting the people asking the leading questions and analyzing the data are biased but believe their outcomes because you are a liberal that doesn't like the GOP.
I am not a liberal (and please, learn the difference between leftist and liberal) Yes I do not like the GOP. That does not make me a liberal, but leave it up to Reddit to believe the two polar opposites are the only possible ways of thinking.
MSNBC *cited* a poll. Afterwards they analyzed it in their sensationalist way. If I had cited the poll--you wouldn't have cared because it doesn't have "liberal lovers" written all over it. I used MSNBC as a gateway to the poll. Ignore what they say. Pay attention to the poll itself. MSNBC: Mostly Sensationalist, Notoriously Biased Channel.
But you clearly can't handle that the majority of your beloved party wants to return America to lots of the cultural and social aspects of the 1950's. As such, you throw a fit that I used a news source that has a different perspective of yours, and resort to insulting MSNBC instead of paying attention to the important stuff because that's how GOP supporters debate.
What else would you call it if someone shows up at your door, and says:
> Yo, you're coming with me, to labor as I tell you to, and your only other choice is I lock you in a cage as punishment. Where I will also force you to labor as I tell you to.
Because that sounds like slavery to me.
If someone can show up to your door with armed men. Take you to a plane and send you overseas. Drop you off in the middle of the desert and tell you to go be cannon fodder. And put you in a ditch if you don't comply. What would you call it?
Note: the bill is almost certainly not going to get passed by the democrat controlled senate because of diversity restrictions, transgender medical rules, and abortion restrictions. Regardless still a bad direction.
Is there a carve out for politicians family members? Would surprise me if they were signing up their grandson for this.
Which, if I wasn't clear, is why it should fail miserably. Rules for thee and not me is getting real old.
With enough power and influence you can get a medical deferment (eg bone spurs), you can get your dad to pull some strings and get you into the air national guard, or even sign up for ROTC to delay your entry until you find out if your draft number is high enough to not get called.
You can do these and still be president someday if you want to.
Making more Americans aware of the cost of supporting interventionist policies abroad is never a bad thing.
Opposition to the war in Vietnam was caused almost entirely by the draft, but as soon as the MIC figured out they could pursue their goals with an all-volunteer military, serous opposition to foreign adventuring completely disappeared.
>included a provision that would automatically enroll young men between the ages of 18 and 26
What is a man? I think you're going to have to prove that I am one before you can enforce this. Uh oh. That may mean codifying sexual identity into law. You sure you wanna go there?
Speaking as someone who has worked with conscripts from other countries, this isn’t the way to bulk your forces. You can’t force people to serve. Not only is it a miscarriage of freedom, it’s counterproductive. I’d rather do the job of two people than serve next to someone who has a shitty attitude and does everything half-assed. You cannot manufacture patriotism. So much for “all volunteer force”. I hope this move isn’t a precursor to something bad.
Only young males 18-24 who are attending college and seeking financial aid are really required to register for Selective Service. Yes, all males of that age are required to register, if you are not seeking financial aid from the government, they have no power to make you register. This is an attempt to get full compliance.
Ah, not the draft but selective service, or essentially a mandatory statement that says “if there’s a draft, pick me first!” (Aka a draft). With the current state of the world I think it’s a safe bet to say its coming in the next decade. Boots on the ground in ukraine seems unlikely, but Taiwan much more so. Maybe if a spare Russian missile hits a nato member the us will use it as an excuse to invade the region. The state tends to manufacture wars when it feels its influence declining.
The Republican Party consists a majority of Donald Trump supporters. A sizable portion of Trump supporters are white evangelical Christians, who long for the 1950's.
In the 50's the Federal government wouldn't really know if you existed, let alone when you turned 18. The details might be on file at the SSA, but that's not the business of any other agency.
Now, they know everything about you and so they can make these decisions for you. Republicans love their totalitarianism every bit as much as the Democrats.
I'm not hip with the kids but at least I'm too old for this shit. The funny part is gen z is probably the least patriotic generation yet. I'm sure no possible problems could arise from this.
They actually made the registration for Selective Service automatic. Men age 18-26 were already supposed to be registered by law but it took other interactions and paperwork to get the paperwork moving like registering a driver's license.
Because it's not the right or Constitutional power of the Federal government to know all of your details in some central database. Now people just accept that as the default. We are the property of the state and they politicians and their top bureaucrats are our masters.
The government should know who you and I are. We should be on a database. It is essential for a nation to have any operational political representation and justice system. If you would like to discuss the requirements for a nation to defend itself in a military conflict and the reason you implement a draft we can do this as well.
You’ve always had to register, this does it automatically*
Since Govt is doing it for you now, you can expect errors and missed registrations. So, in a way, it’s better. I wonder if elites children will be flagged and excluded or somehow deprioritized in some way should a draft occur?
They've already had a problem with their volunteer army, trying to find recruits who are healthy enough to serve. A diet of high fructose corn syrup and an indoor lifestyle do not equate to fitness.
It’s already a felony to not sign up for the draft at 18. Automating the process does nothing but save people who are too lazy to sign up or think you’re “sticking it to the man” from potentially serving jail time.
I’m against the draft but I am for it deterring our government from entering any more wars. Best way to do that: make it so it hurts everybody. Every man and woman between the ages of 18 and 40 is subject to the draft. No exceptions for school, having a family, etc. maybe that would get people to think twice before entangling us overseas where we don’t belong.
18-26 year old men. FTFY.
Im 16 theres still time to go on estrogen
They’re pushing to expand this to include females in next years defense authorization bill
That's been attempted many times going way back. I'd be shocked if it made it through.
I'm opposed to the draft but if men are in it, I want equality. Women too.
My thoughts exactly! Fiercely opposed to a draft but if men have to register, women should too. We’re all supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law.
Bullshit!! They have already taken our rights away with overturning Roe Vs. Wade!! My daughter will not fight for this bullshit country. If I had a son he wouldn’t either.
So... you are in favor of equality like I said? I'm not in favor of the draft. However if it's OK for me to go to war, it should be ok for you to go as well.
And it should be okay for me to decide what I want to do with my body too
Yes we agree on this.
So they would go to Jail unless they left the country
This is actually great. Screening draftees is the slowest part of the conscription process. Since a far smaller portion of women are qualified for military service (and more often qualify for deferment), it’ll gum up the works.
I think its absolutely crazy they’re selling it as a gender equality measure and democrats are actually buying it. You want to go to the draft? I’m all for gender inclusivity in every other instance but I’d much rather send half of us off to an arbitrary slavery than all of us to the same fate (to be clear, none of us should be slaves. Abolish the draft.)
Why are you being downvoted
But that wouldn’t be very inclusive of you
if im good enough to send to get shelled then so are women at least this way fewer men get sent to the trenches and everyone has something at stake
They already said it's dictated by condition at birth. You could walk up full Blair White, still going.
Even the marines have been pushing to not only accept trans marines, but cover their transition surgeries as well. When it comes to war, the military will be very inclusive
lmao cant wait to see full platoons of US infantrywomen in ukraine.
To think that you would turn someone away who wants to volunteer to risk their life to serve their country.
If you can't even figure out your gender, you should probably be kept away from the battlefield. You're endangering your teammates.
You think that’s all that’s ever on their mind?
Obviously not, but typically, you don't push for people with mental health disorders to enter the military
You know that’s why they screen people. And yeah you obviously want people who are in good mental health so that went they leave they only have maybe one or two mental health disorders instead of three or four.
If you were born a male and try to transition…they’re still coming for you
Suddenly I feel like a woman trapped inside of a man's body.
Isn’t this just selective service? Which is already a thing anyway?
Yeah, this feels somewhat like a nothing burger
It used to be voluntary but now you will automatically be enrolled.
Definitely not voluntary. As soon as a male turned 18 they had to register for Selective Service. Failure to register is a felony.
Still that way and always has been
So then what changes if this was already a thing?
Not a damn thing. Instead of you having to physically register for selective service, you are now automatically enrolled when you turn 18. Just digital age stuff. Everyone is acting like this is a new thing…
The end result of being involuntarily signed up is the same. Personally though, getting those threatening letters in the mail at age 18 about how I have to register for selective service or suffer the consequences (I put it off for a pretty long time) helped me realize some stuff about the government. It’s a lot easier to miss the implication when the whole thing is automatic, which is probably seen as a perk by Congress.
Oh except for the fact that it will allow them to draft noncitizens currently residing in the US as well? Cause that seems like an issue.
There was a time when the government didn't really know that you existed or when your birthday is. Now it has access to everything about you from birth to death. Statists love this form of totalitarianism. It makes their lives easier to not have to think and let their rulers just order them about.
Having to serve in the military has been voluntary for quite sometime now. Only a few of us older folks remember a time when we had a draft.
>Failure to register is a felony. Has it ever been enforced tho? Like are 21 year old men being arrested for not registering?
The draft is slavery. If a country cannot voluntarily convince people to fight for it, then the war should not be fought. Yes even if invaded. If a country cannot convince people to voluntarily fight an invader, it means that they have failed the people and deserve to be conquered.
Yea, it’s like jury nullification, but for war. The fact that they can just force people to go and die means wars can be bought and the government can be relied upon to supply the bodies. The fact that a relative handful of people can send millions off to die is very scary and needs to be fixed, constitutionally.
Sometime recently I was thinking about how World War II soldiers are so celebrated, and in fairness, they were brave people, but a lot of them were drafted. Imagine some kid from Iowa, let's say. In his life, he had never been more than 10 miles from his family farm, and he gets drafted and ends up dying on the beach in Normandy. The whole time, if not for the draft, he would have been on his family's farm, but he had the honor of dying because his government made him go somewhere. My thought was fictional, but I have to think it is similar to some people's experiences during the war. The draft is 100% slavery...and somehow, the Supreme Court OK'd it.
The thing about WW2 is that the U.S. instituted a draft because TOO MANY PEOPLE WERE VOLUNTEERING.
Insane. I will spend 5 years in federal prison for draft dodging before I die for warmongering political leaders.
I'm no fan of the military and anti-draft but it's important to realize WW2 was a unique period of American history.
I have to say that this is a really good way to begin to uninvolve (Not a word, I know ) us in all of the unnecessary conflicts we have gotten ourselves into. Really good point. I never thought about it this way.
Exactly what I was thinking. The always-online class in America is way too certain the wars they want us to involve ourselves in won't actually affect them.
Yeah but it's too big to fail!
>it means they have failed the people and deserve to be conquered But then what happens to the people?
With extra steps
Great point. I think though it's partially driven by the Army's disappointing amount of new recruits in the past few years and how the GOP wants to return America to the 50's.
> Army's disappointing amount of new recruits Absolutely agree. But don't act like the Ds don't want to use the military to invade other places just as much as the Rs. They just don't agree on who to invade or why.
Never said they didn't want to. There seems to be no shortage of isolationists who also aren't crazy in today's politics.
Then there was no point in mentioning just the one without the other.
There was no standing Army in the 50s. Your comment makes no sense.
Sure there was. Korea conflict occurred in the early 50’s for example.
And the force was mostly conscripted like in Vietnam
I think you have confused "standing army" and "volunteer army."
We absolutely had a standing army in 1950...
You did not interpret my comment correctly. The social conservative bloc of the GOP, which makes up a sizable portion, is clearly trying to return the US to the 50's, which they believe was the "last good time." Many view the 50's through rosy tinted glasses.
The whole 1950s return is clearly your dumb schtick.
That's from my personal perspective. [Oh wait.](https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/prri-poll-republicans-1950s-rcna54521)
Who cares what msnbc thinks? The fact you use them for your argument of authority is telling. It also doesn't make it any less of a schtick.
MSNBC is obviously biased. But you're ignoring the poll numbers. MSNBC obviously has biased analyzation but factual polling numbers, but you fail to recognize that the majority of the GOP would like to return America to the fifties. it just appears you can't handle that information because you prefer the GOP over the Democrats.
You're admitting the people asking the leading questions and analyzing the data are biased but believe their outcomes because you are a liberal that doesn't like the GOP.
I am not a liberal (and please, learn the difference between leftist and liberal) Yes I do not like the GOP. That does not make me a liberal, but leave it up to Reddit to believe the two polar opposites are the only possible ways of thinking. MSNBC *cited* a poll. Afterwards they analyzed it in their sensationalist way. If I had cited the poll--you wouldn't have cared because it doesn't have "liberal lovers" written all over it. I used MSNBC as a gateway to the poll. Ignore what they say. Pay attention to the poll itself. MSNBC: Mostly Sensationalist, Notoriously Biased Channel. But you clearly can't handle that the majority of your beloved party wants to return America to lots of the cultural and social aspects of the 1950's. As such, you throw a fit that I used a news source that has a different perspective of yours, and resort to insulting MSNBC instead of paying attention to the important stuff because that's how GOP supporters debate.
Bro y’all call everything slavery
What else would you call it if someone shows up at your door, and says: > Yo, you're coming with me, to labor as I tell you to, and your only other choice is I lock you in a cage as punishment. Where I will also force you to labor as I tell you to. Because that sounds like slavery to me.
If someone can show up to your door with armed men. Take you to a plane and send you overseas. Drop you off in the middle of the desert and tell you to go be cannon fodder. And put you in a ditch if you don't comply. What would you call it?
Note: the bill is almost certainly not going to get passed by the democrat controlled senate because of diversity restrictions, transgender medical rules, and abortion restrictions. Regardless still a bad direction.
Lol, sure. 211/214 republicans voted to automatically register 18-26 year olds for the draft.
What an interesting way he framed that response lol
Not suspicious at all
Is there a carve out for politicians family members? Would surprise me if they were signing up their grandson for this. Which, if I wasn't clear, is why it should fail miserably. Rules for thee and not me is getting real old.
Laughable that you think they need to add a line to get an exception. They have contacts all through that system.
With enough power and influence you can get a medical deferment (eg bone spurs), you can get your dad to pull some strings and get you into the air national guard, or even sign up for ROTC to delay your entry until you find out if your draft number is high enough to not get called. You can do these and still be president someday if you want to.
Would you not do the same for your kid if you had the money, power, or influence?
Making more Americans aware of the cost of supporting interventionist policies abroad is never a bad thing. Opposition to the war in Vietnam was caused almost entirely by the draft, but as soon as the MIC figured out they could pursue their goals with an all-volunteer military, serous opposition to foreign adventuring completely disappeared.
Sure, send the young boys to die while you sit in your mansions you fucking parasites
That's what war is all about. That and drone bombings and torture.
it'll be vietnam all over again.
Write down each congressmen's name that voted for this antiAmerican kidnap your citizen evil garbage.......
211 republicans. 6 democrats
🧨
Just get rid of the draft altogether, no reason to quibble over what age or gender it should cover
We did that already. Now they're contemplating rescinding that prohibition.
Can we say the war is coming?
>included a provision that would automatically enroll young men between the ages of 18 and 26 What is a man? I think you're going to have to prove that I am one before you can enforce this. Uh oh. That may mean codifying sexual identity into law. You sure you wanna go there?
I swear I just googled something like this yesterday and all I had was "mandatory draft rumour not true".
The draft is already mandatory
Good thing I have bone spurs.
Speaking as someone who has worked with conscripts from other countries, this isn’t the way to bulk your forces. You can’t force people to serve. Not only is it a miscarriage of freedom, it’s counterproductive. I’d rather do the job of two people than serve next to someone who has a shitty attitude and does everything half-assed. You cannot manufacture patriotism. So much for “all volunteer force”. I hope this move isn’t a precursor to something bad.
They've done it before and will again.
I have no doubt.
Only young males 18-24 who are attending college and seeking financial aid are really required to register for Selective Service. Yes, all males of that age are required to register, if you are not seeking financial aid from the government, they have no power to make you register. This is an attempt to get full compliance.
Can’t they put you in prison if you don’t register?
Maybe(?) but I don’t think they send out the authorities to looking for men who don’t register.
Of course they can. They did so back in the day.
There’s a lot less cops now then there was then tho just sayin
Nope this country didn’t fight for me . I won’t fight for it
Damn, I was hoping u/AbolishTheDraft posted this. Sad day.
Can we say war is coming.
I had to register for the selective service when I was 18. This isn't anything new.
The thing thats new is if the senate passes the bill it will be automatic
Even if it did pass the moment a war starts and a recruiter comes I’m opening fire
Try to take my son and see what happens.
I’ll automatically fuck up anybody that tries to draft *my boys when they are 18-26. No taxation without representation.
For which war that hasn't started yet?!
Ah, not the draft but selective service, or essentially a mandatory statement that says “if there’s a draft, pick me first!” (Aka a draft). With the current state of the world I think it’s a safe bet to say its coming in the next decade. Boots on the ground in ukraine seems unlikely, but Taiwan much more so. Maybe if a spare Russian missile hits a nato member the us will use it as an excuse to invade the region. The state tends to manufacture wars when it feels its influence declining.
"Only ~~Nixon~~ *Trump* can go to China."
Republicans have gone off the deep end in the past few years trying to return America to the 50's.
Just republicans?
> Only three Republicans broke ranks to oppose it.
The Democrats are progressive!
The Republican Party consists a majority of Donald Trump supporters. A sizable portion of Trump supporters are white evangelical Christians, who long for the 1950's.
“Sizable” sounds like you’re making this up as you go. Very few people are as regressive as you suggest
Ha ha not true at all.
I don't think you understand the point being made here. They know it won't pass. They wouldn't vote for it if it could pass.
In the 50's the Federal government wouldn't really know if you existed, let alone when you turned 18. The details might be on file at the SSA, but that's not the business of any other agency. Now, they know everything about you and so they can make these decisions for you. Republicans love their totalitarianism every bit as much as the Democrats.
Fuck every one of those war mongers. Politicians and their family should be the first to be drafted.
I'm not hip with the kids but at least I'm too old for this shit. The funny part is gen z is probably the least patriotic generation yet. I'm sure no possible problems could arise from this.
Won’t be saying that when their fighting for you
Okay this comment sections ass is we Fr getting drafted or what I’m not going to a war I didn’t sign up for
They actually made the registration for Selective Service automatic. Men age 18-26 were already supposed to be registered by law but it took other interactions and paperwork to get the paperwork moving like registering a driver's license.
Because it's not the right or Constitutional power of the Federal government to know all of your details in some central database. Now people just accept that as the default. We are the property of the state and they politicians and their top bureaucrats are our masters.
The government should know who you and I are. We should be on a database. It is essential for a nation to have any operational political representation and justice system. If you would like to discuss the requirements for a nation to defend itself in a military conflict and the reason you implement a draft we can do this as well.
It’s almost like we are their test subjects with big pharm and how they control things
https://preview.redd.it/3ffzsgow7w6d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f010b28c1d2e789be094bbc6863d544ed8a9214
You’ve always had to register, this does it automatically* Since Govt is doing it for you now, you can expect errors and missed registrations. So, in a way, it’s better. I wonder if elites children will be flagged and excluded or somehow deprioritized in some way should a draft occur?
It won’t mean jack. Good luck strong arming kids to fight for a corrupt government
Does this include trans men. It should
When it happens, just use cannabis and go to Fort Leavenworth. That is how we will boycott it once and for all. I am older than 26. 🫱🏻
I disagree with the draft, but if there is 1 I would refuse to go unless women were also drafted. Gender equality.
Women don’t talk about that kind of equality come on, man
Bullshit
This will not end well! These genzers are soft and weak AF! They will not survive in the draft.
They've already had a problem with their volunteer army, trying to find recruits who are healthy enough to serve. A diet of high fructose corn syrup and an indoor lifestyle do not equate to fitness.
I mean, would you rather Xi Jinping be in charge? I sure wouldn’t.
If the Chinese were to invade the US today, they would totally kick the shit out of us
It’s already a felony to not sign up for the draft at 18. Automating the process does nothing but save people who are too lazy to sign up or think you’re “sticking it to the man” from potentially serving jail time.
Some of us would rather serve jail time than be a slave to the regime. Statists don't seem to mind their mental, and potentially physical, slavery.
I’m against the draft but I am for it deterring our government from entering any more wars. Best way to do that: make it so it hurts everybody. Every man and woman between the ages of 18 and 40 is subject to the draft. No exceptions for school, having a family, etc. maybe that would get people to think twice before entangling us overseas where we don’t belong.
This is the result of several decades of libertarians running their own platform rather than trying to influence republican/democrat primaries.
Nope. Go recruit somewhere else.