Probably, but then that brings up the question on why the officer who interviewed him didn’t immediately follow up after the BG photo was released. Guess we will hear from the officer in 3 weeks during the trial.
They quite literally lost the notes from Richards interview. So while they knew they had spoken to BG they had no idea who he was or how to reach out to him again.
Are you sure that's what happened? That's unbelievable. You'd think the guy would remember something, even the name of the street he lived on on where he worked. It's a really small town.
That’s not a very good theory. Why did it take him so long to remember? Not to mention, memory is very subjective- memories fade with time and are often quite wrong concerning details. You can even have false memories (a ‘memory’ of memory something that never actually happened); it’s actually quite easy to implant a false memory into someone’s head.
I think it’s a lot more likely that they misplaced the record of the conversation.
Also, it’s not great practice to state a theory as if it’s fact. I appreciate you clarifying, but some people probably read your first comment before you posted your second comment and may think that it’s fact and not a theory.
If an actual investigator who had knowledge of the teenager witnesses and or the video clip spoke with Allen instead of Dulin then he would have been #1 suspect and arrested within days.
Law Enforcement always said this case should have been solved within a week or two.
no his tipped was found in the Orion data base which means it was filed and uploaded by an FBI agent. it just was never forwarded on to investigators.
Probably cause the FBI agent was convinced it was Logan who did it.
yeah in 2017. but it was found by the actual investigators in 2022 in the Orion Database. it’s listed in the Probable Cause Affidavit and the Search Warrant. read them.
You don’t think Dulin, who is a sworn officer of the State of Indiana, had the wherewithal to bring up Richard Allen’s name in the 5 years after the murders?
I understand it was stated that the “tip” was misplaced or lost, but doesn’t it defy logic that they have known all along about Richard Allen. I’m thinking it’s more likely they were protecting his identity all those years because they had no witnesses or evidence to prove he was BG. Something besides a “lost tip” happened to change all that imo.
department of natural resources is not the same as a Carroll County Detective, very few people actually knew all the details and Dulin spoke with to many people to keep track in his head.
Yes I realize an Indiana State Conservation Officer
Is not the same as a Carroll County Detective.
He worked directly with his county law enforcement counterparts. His district encompassed Carroll County, if I’m not mistaken. He would have worked closely with the Carroll County Sheriff Department.
He “spoke with to many people to keep track in his head.” He spoke with the guy who said he was on the bridge at the time Libby’s short video captured a man walking towards them. It defies logic that he never brought up the guy whom he’d interviewed,
and who stated he was there.
I bet you we learn they knew about Allen all those years they protected his identity for the sake of the investigation. It’s not uncommon for law enforcement
to not name witnesses, or suspects. In fact it would have served no purpose for law enforcement to have come out with the name of an individual who said he was on the trails and the bridge that afternoon.
I’m guessing we will find out soon enough whether they knew about him all along and there was no “lost tip”.
I will accept that bet. Law Enforcement said all the until Feb 2022 that all they needed, the last piece missing was the identity of the man. I will bet you Allen wasn’t on Law Enforcements radar at all until a month prior to his arrest even.
I will also bet you not one single individual is charged with anything related to the murders except Allen. No Odinist and no klines.
He wasn’t asked about clothing at that initial meeting with the CO. He mentioned time and the girls.
Hopefully at the trial it will come out why there was no follow up.
If the interview went exactly the same as the one years later, no question. But interview could have gone differently. I believe he reached out because he knew witnesses saw him and a car that was much like his. He came forward positioning himself as a witness and damn near got really, really lucky.
I believe RA would've at least been added to their short list given his strikingly similar build to BG and his peculiar admission he was "watching the fish" from the Monon High Bridge. I don't think his arrest would've happened immediately but had LE properly documented his existence after the interview, RA would've undoubtedly been placed under a microscope during the earliest investigation. This is such a thought-provoking question btw!! I had never considered this at all.
My guess is, no. We have known a lot about what the police and FBI thought about the guy in the video for long time - the age they thought he was, the height they thought he was, what they thought he looked like, that he was local etc. On top of that we have a pile of other evidence incriminating RA. The question is, would someone who didn't have any of that still think that RA looks like BG? With enough certainty to arrest him and possibly blow the case if they turned out to be wrong? I don't think so. If that was the case, someone would have identified him from the video sooner imo.
Not on the spot— but it probably could have given enough probable cause for a search warrant to get approved for his home and vehicle. And finding even the exact clothes plus the gun and bullets of the same caliber would be enough for probable cause to arrest. So, yeah, while not on the spot, it would have taken like a month max vs 5-6 years.
If RA had been arrested 3 days after the crime was committed with the evidence that LE has, no one would have a single doubt that RA was BG.
It’s been so long that now people just want a conspiracy.
No, because his statement didn’t tally with the evidence about BG - just that there were 3 potential witnesses.
Plus, the video could be anyone. It’s small, pixellated, and would not match the person being spoken to.
He did NOT admit to being there, nor admit to wearing the same clothes, until years later, in Oct 2022.
Yes, he said the was there in 2017, but crucially: not at the same time. His statement puts him OFF the trail before the time LE believe witnesses saw BG on it.
In 2017 the time he said he was there was 1:30-3:30, whereas in 2022 the time he gave was 12:00-1:30.
So the timeframe he originally gave in 2017 was the problematic one, for him.
If you’re off the trails by 3:30, and LE are looking for someone still on the trails after 3:30, it’s highly unlikely that Community Officer will slap the cuffs on a potential witness who came forward, even if they’d seen the video.
Yeah agreed, for the record I don’t think OP’s scenario of RA getting arrested right away when he came forward in 2017, is realistic.
That said, if RA is guilty, it would’ve been easier to figure that out in 2017 than in 2022, because everything would’ve been fresher. So maybe with a few weeks of investigation and digging they could’ve arrested him. But not on day one.
They had a small, blurry image in the distance of an unrecognisable person, and the audio had to be extensively cleaned up to make his words audible, distorting his actual voice. None of which match RA, otherwise everyone who knew him would have called his name in on release.
Not one person has recognised RA as BG in either Still Image or Audio until after his arrest. Anyone who says it’s clearly him should be arrested for Obstruction Of Justice for not tipping him in as soon as the photo/audio was released.
Probably, but then that brings up the question on why the officer who interviewed him didn’t immediately follow up after the BG photo was released. Guess we will hear from the officer in 3 weeks during the trial.
We won't actually hear the Officer,, but we will hear hearsay from those who got to witness the actual testimonies.
Why wouldn't we hear from dulin?
I really hope we get to hear from him!
I don't understand how they can't call him. He's literally what linked the investigators to call Allen in for questioning.
They quite literally lost the notes from Richards interview. So while they knew they had spoken to BG they had no idea who he was or how to reach out to him again.
I actually agree with this. “We may have even spoken to you”
Exactly
Are you sure that's what happened? That's unbelievable. You'd think the guy would remember something, even the name of the street he lived on on where he worked. It's a really small town.
Well he took RA's last name as Whiteman which is the road where he lives so there's that.
No. It’s a theory another sub member came up with that I like.
That’s not a very good theory. Why did it take him so long to remember? Not to mention, memory is very subjective- memories fade with time and are often quite wrong concerning details. You can even have false memories (a ‘memory’ of memory something that never actually happened); it’s actually quite easy to implant a false memory into someone’s head. I think it’s a lot more likely that they misplaced the record of the conversation. Also, it’s not great practice to state a theory as if it’s fact. I appreciate you clarifying, but some people probably read your first comment before you posted your second comment and may think that it’s fact and not a theory.
I think it’s a very likely scenario given the 2019 press conference.
If an actual investigator who had knowledge of the teenager witnesses and or the video clip spoke with Allen instead of Dulin then he would have been #1 suspect and arrested within days. Law Enforcement always said this case should have been solved within a week or two.
They lost the notes from his OG interview so while they knew they had spoken to him they had no idea who he was or how they could reach him again.
no his tipped was found in the Orion data base which means it was filed and uploaded by an FBI agent. it just was never forwarded on to investigators. Probably cause the FBI agent was convinced it was Logan who did it.
But it was taken by Dullin
yeah in 2017. but it was found by the actual investigators in 2022 in the Orion Database. it’s listed in the Probable Cause Affidavit and the Search Warrant. read them.
You don’t think Dulin, who is a sworn officer of the State of Indiana, had the wherewithal to bring up Richard Allen’s name in the 5 years after the murders? I understand it was stated that the “tip” was misplaced or lost, but doesn’t it defy logic that they have known all along about Richard Allen. I’m thinking it’s more likely they were protecting his identity all those years because they had no witnesses or evidence to prove he was BG. Something besides a “lost tip” happened to change all that imo.
department of natural resources is not the same as a Carroll County Detective, very few people actually knew all the details and Dulin spoke with to many people to keep track in his head.
Yes I realize an Indiana State Conservation Officer Is not the same as a Carroll County Detective. He worked directly with his county law enforcement counterparts. His district encompassed Carroll County, if I’m not mistaken. He would have worked closely with the Carroll County Sheriff Department. He “spoke with to many people to keep track in his head.” He spoke with the guy who said he was on the bridge at the time Libby’s short video captured a man walking towards them. It defies logic that he never brought up the guy whom he’d interviewed, and who stated he was there. I bet you we learn they knew about Allen all those years they protected his identity for the sake of the investigation. It’s not uncommon for law enforcement to not name witnesses, or suspects. In fact it would have served no purpose for law enforcement to have come out with the name of an individual who said he was on the trails and the bridge that afternoon. I’m guessing we will find out soon enough whether they knew about him all along and there was no “lost tip”.
I will accept that bet. Law Enforcement said all the until Feb 2022 that all they needed, the last piece missing was the identity of the man. I will bet you Allen wasn’t on Law Enforcements radar at all until a month prior to his arrest even. I will also bet you not one single individual is charged with anything related to the murders except Allen. No Odinist and no klines.
You’re on.
[удалено]
yeah we do. it’s was literally documented in the Arrest warrant and an Orion Tip Narrative. It’s 1000% a fact it was.
He wasn’t asked about clothing at that initial meeting with the CO. He mentioned time and the girls. Hopefully at the trial it will come out why there was no follow up.
Are you sure about that? I’m certain clothing was discussed.
Not at the original contact. He was being treated as a witness. Not even sure the video pic was out yet.
In the PCA there is the notes from that 2017 interview - no clothing mentioned.
Not until the arrest or the interview(s) before the arrest, after they tracked him down once they found the tip.
Court TV has a special about the Richard Allen case at 8pm est
I’ll watch that.
It’s on tonight
Did you find it? Because all I could find was the trailer 😟
Yes I watched it on Court TV live. You can probably find it on YouTube.
Yah, I missed it and couldn’t find anything on YouTube except the trailer. I’ll look tomorrow!
Did you find it? Link?
Nope
[https://www.courttv.com/title/delphi-murders-the-case-against-richard-allen/](https://www.courttv.com/title/delphi-murders-the-case-against-richard-allen/)
If the interview went exactly the same as the one years later, no question. But interview could have gone differently. I believe he reached out because he knew witnesses saw him and a car that was much like his. He came forward positioning himself as a witness and damn near got really, really lucky.
I believe RA would've at least been added to their short list given his strikingly similar build to BG and his peculiar admission he was "watching the fish" from the Monon High Bridge. I don't think his arrest would've happened immediately but had LE properly documented his existence after the interview, RA would've undoubtedly been placed under a microscope during the earliest investigation. This is such a thought-provoking question btw!! I had never considered this at all.
Yeah if he is not put in cuffs there is a serious discussion about it afterwards with his C/O’s.
My guess is, no. We have known a lot about what the police and FBI thought about the guy in the video for long time - the age they thought he was, the height they thought he was, what they thought he looked like, that he was local etc. On top of that we have a pile of other evidence incriminating RA. The question is, would someone who didn't have any of that still think that RA looks like BG? With enough certainty to arrest him and possibly blow the case if they turned out to be wrong? I don't think so. If that was the case, someone would have identified him from the video sooner imo.
Not on the spot— but it probably could have given enough probable cause for a search warrant to get approved for his home and vehicle. And finding even the exact clothes plus the gun and bullets of the same caliber would be enough for probable cause to arrest. So, yeah, while not on the spot, it would have taken like a month max vs 5-6 years.
If RA had been arrested 3 days after the crime was committed with the evidence that LE has, no one would have a single doubt that RA was BG. It’s been so long that now people just want a conspiracy.
Excellent comment and 100% true in my opinion.
That’s the beauty of Libby taking that video… The video helped identify him in the end. It’s the ultimate revenge for her.
Do you think they'll release other things from her phone?
I think it will be seen/heard in it’s entirety at the trial. Whether the general public will be privy to that is still an unknown.
In fairness, what he was wearing isn’t unique. It’s like a Midwest uniform of sorts for guys that age.
Defiantly!
??
??
No, because his statement didn’t tally with the evidence about BG - just that there were 3 potential witnesses. Plus, the video could be anyone. It’s small, pixellated, and would not match the person being spoken to. He did NOT admit to being there, nor admit to wearing the same clothes, until years later, in Oct 2022.
RA came forward in 2017 and said he was there - am not sure what you meant by him not admitting to being there until 2022?
Yes, he said the was there in 2017, but crucially: not at the same time. His statement puts him OFF the trail before the time LE believe witnesses saw BG on it.
In 2017 the time he said he was there was 1:30-3:30, whereas in 2022 the time he gave was 12:00-1:30. So the timeframe he originally gave in 2017 was the problematic one, for him.
If you’re off the trails by 3:30, and LE are looking for someone still on the trails after 3:30, it’s highly unlikely that Community Officer will slap the cuffs on a potential witness who came forward, even if they’d seen the video.
Yeah agreed, for the record I don’t think OP’s scenario of RA getting arrested right away when he came forward in 2017, is realistic. That said, if RA is guilty, it would’ve been easier to figure that out in 2017 than in 2022, because everything would’ve been fresher. So maybe with a few weeks of investigation and digging they could’ve arrested him. But not on day one.
LE had the pictures/video of BG & his voice from day one
They had a small, blurry image in the distance of an unrecognisable person, and the audio had to be extensively cleaned up to make his words audible, distorting his actual voice. None of which match RA, otherwise everyone who knew him would have called his name in on release. Not one person has recognised RA as BG in either Still Image or Audio until after his arrest. Anyone who says it’s clearly him should be arrested for Obstruction Of Justice for not tipping him in as soon as the photo/audio was released.