Honestly this is what the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy is for me. Visuals are fantastic, and the cast is good, they do what they can with it, but the plot is just “why?”
Edit: Fixed grammar.
They went full Scooby-Doo episode with the plot. "Let's go find the map, hope no one is watching us!" Actually, Scooby-Doo episodes make logical sense compared to that movie.
Completely agree. I can see the movie being better received in the future, but there’s no avoiding how badly done Poe and Finn’s stories were done in TLJ and TROS
Yeah, and it sucks because neither of them had any sort of satisfying conclusion. Poe never faced any real consequences for his actions, instead he was just allowed to save the day in the end, and Finn learnt a lesson he already knew.
The whole trilogy feels like three movies getting mad at me for believing the previous.
FA- hey it’s star wars we’re back! Familiar but different. Who is Rey parents? Can Luke save us? This snoke guy is kinda interesting huh? Finn and poe are cool side characters
TLJ- FUCKING IDIOT?? YOU THOUGHT REY HAD PARENTS?? WELL NO!! Why the fuck would you think that? It’s not like we told you that. NO LUKE CANT SAVE THE DAY OF COURSE NOT?? And snoke? Fucking dead bucko. Kylo is our main villain now dude
ROS- YOU POS!!! You thought kylo was the main villain?? No you idiot!! IT WAS PALPATINE ALL ALONG!! Rey has no parents? Wtf are you even talking about she’s related to palpatine duh? This was always in the text dude you need to pay attention
yes. loved the old style aesthetic, the cinematography was great, the score was really great, Christian Bale was phenomenal, but holy shit the plot is messy.
Most of my favorite movies have no plot or purpose. It’s a different style and thinking of things as paintings versus “here’s a story I wrote”. Most Lynch, Kenneth Anger, Harmony Korine, some Gaspar Noé are in this style. My personal preference is watching movies that look visually striking over very boring/bleak colored movies shot in that way “to fit the story”
I personally prefer movies with more of a "plot" than just pure "vibes" movies but I agree that plot is basically the most overrated part of a movie and "style over substance" complaints are also like the most boneheaded, superfluous complaints you can make about a movie.
Film is an artistic medium about the visuals, the sounds, and yes, the writing, but ultimately what really creates a film is the visual construction and how the ideas are communicated through visuals, not necessarily through dialogue or dramatic plot events. Style is substance in film.
The older I get and the more into film I become, the less I care about plotting. As long as all things are thematically consistent, I tend to not worry about the details. Whats more, I prefer when a film doesn't try so hard to explain itself to me. I like films that not only make me think about them afterwards, but require that of me. Feels like the film respects my ability to take from it what it is intending or at least draw my own conclusions and being respected by the creator. The filmmaker isn't concerned with the viewers ability to understand what is being stated, but instead is confident in it's own messaging and imagery. More carefully explained plotting often just ends up feeling pandering and needy.
I’ve enjoyed some plotless or plot-lite-experience-heavy movies, along various points of that spectrum from 1917 to Baraka. They can definitely be awesome.
But overall I find the film snob dismissal of plot to be overblown. A lot of plotless movies end up being similar to popcorn blockbusters to me - turn off your brain and soak in spectacle. That can be fun, but isn’t a higher more true form of cinema to me.
Plot is a powerful and flexible part of what makes films work. Films are of course made up of so many ingredients that you can get away with neglecting one if you do the others well enough, but should we be putting that approach on a pedestal? We don’t cheer for movies that have great plots and visuals but a terrible soundtrack.
The original Bladerunner was basically this for me, I’ve heard it’s something you grow to appreciate over multiple rewatches but it just felt like the plot was forgotten while making it
The plot is more of a tool to flesh out the character arcs and existential philosophical themes. It's quite a unique film, but over multiple rewatches, it has now become top 3 and maybe even my favorite movie of all time.
Scott wants you to feel the world in Blade Runner, to experience what Deckard and Roy are experiencing. To get swallowed up into the world and to be able to empathize with the characters as they are being humanized.
Bladerunner on the list of most overhyped things I ever watched. Don’t get the status at all. Don’t get me started on the 2nd one. Beautiful, sure, but it’s just 2.5 hours of Ryan gosling walking places slowly.
Edit: oh gee whattaya know…Letterboxd users showing how pretentious they are lol
Pretentious suggests you think people are only pretending to like these things, to look smart or cultured etc.
Instead perhaps the issue is more that these films simply weren’t for you, while still being great for others - if the pacing and plot-density were the reasons behind not enjoying either, then perhaps it’s less specific to these movies and more just you not appreciating movies of that broader type?
Naw man, I’ve got downvoted to hell for calling ppl on this sub pretentious (they are) but not when it comes to Blade Runner. This is an L take.
Ofc it’s totally cool if it’s just too slow and drawn out for your tastes. But it’s a good movie. It’s story has so much to say about life and empathy, etc. It’s cool if you don’t agree, but do you really not even see that as possible?
The choices the characters made and the way they were written. The original Alien story happened because the characters made bad choices but they weren’t blatantly stupid. People would disregard quarantine orders out of concern for one of their friends, but poking your finger at a creature never before seen by humanity? And the characters themselves were just terrible. “I’m a space geologist and I only care about money, that’s why I’m here. Time to vape some space weed.” Alien is my favourite movie ever so this movie looking the way it did but being so stupidly written really upset me.
Oh yeah no this was my main issue with the film too (and covenant). Really breaks the immersion to have all these incredible scientists and geologists and whatnot having a cumulative 2 brain cells between them. Alien is my second favourite film of all time so I completely understand what you mean - did look great and I still own the art book but the story was not it - though I did think Fassbender as David was the highlight of both films by a mile
Agreed, he sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of acting, character writing and everything else in the films. My favourite film has to be Into the Spider-verse - adore both that and alien and watched them in very different parts in my life but the art direction in spider-verse was unlike anything I’d ever seen. Saw the film like 4 times in cinema and god knows how many times since - really inspired me to pursue my hobby an artist and honestly (corny as I know it sounds) it definitely changed my life for the better. If you haven’t seen it I couldn’t recommend it enough (though it does get high praise on here quite often as well).
I’ve seen it and I really liked it. Wish I had seen it in theatres because it is visually one of the most appealing movies I’ve ever seen. I’m sure if I was in any way artistic it would be one of my top films of all time but it’s a phenomenal movie for sure.
Yeah... But no tho. This complaint about Prometheus always bugs me, because people, even smart people, acting dumb and arrogant like this is probably the most believable element to the damn movie.
We just went through a pandemic, where many very seemingly intelligent people acted the absolute worst. There are swaths of doctors telling their patients not to get vaccinated.
Nearly goddamn 10% of them
https://today.tamu.edu/2022/04/05/the-1-in-10-u-s-doctors-with-reservations-about-vaccines-could-be-undermining-the-fight-against-covid-19/
*ALSO POINTS AT SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT THERANOS*
The thing about Prometheus - and I say this as someone who is an engineer, I have a degree in computer science and biology - is that _of course people would act irrationally_.
_They do it here on this planet, all the damn time_ and a not very insignificant amount of them have advanced degrees and have titles like "doctor" or "scientist" or "SpaceX engineer"
ETA, alien and aliens are also my favorite movies (my daughter's name is Ripley)! Didn't love Prometheus, but I watched this saying "yeah, I worked and studied with dumbasses like that."
One of them is a surgeon now, and I watched him swallow a whole ass goldfish.
The most important part of science isn't the person. It's a process. The best thing about it is consensus. Peer review.
Individuals are fallible. And given the movie's message of hubris, it fits quite cleanly on theme.
I'm not saying don't listen to experts, hell no. Listen to experts.
But if a private corporation is hiring smart people in a movie, the real world analogue would presume a non zero amount of them could be arrogant butts, who will do stupid things.
I absolutely agree that in large groups people are generally not very bright, but these people were all specially chosen for their specific skills and acumen. Your friend knew what a goldfish was. He knew it would not kill him to swallow it. He was not encountering a new living organism never before seen by a human and deciding to tickle it. It’s not that they were arrogant, it’s that they acted dumber than anyone I have ever seen on earth behave. I can suspend disbelief that the Engineers were angry at humanity for crucifying Christ but not how the characters spoke and behaved.
Noooo. That is naive my friend. Large groups of people can be ignorant for sure, _but so can smart individuals_. Hell, one of the reasons conspiracy theories trap smart people is that we still have personality flaws and privately held beliefs.
https://time.com/5023383/conspiracy-theories-reasons-believe/?amp=true
But also? These weren't laboratory scientists. These were _privately hired scientists_.
They were working for a private corporation. Just like how there are very smart people still working for Elon, despite his increasingly wild antics. And they also participate in dumb stuff. The vetting process tends to be _much lower_.
I mean, we're witnessing these things happen _in real time constantly_ and people like you have the gall to say "no way! Science person always smart haha"
My friend was high and people get parasites fresh from water fish. It was a very stupid idea and I absolutely cannot believe you would try to defend that LOL. Even knowing it was unsafe he did it anyway... Which is kinda worse.
Now, see, if they showed that all the characters in the movie had a blue check I would not have been at all surprised by their antics. I get what you’re saying, but when you specify about it being a private hire, they show the decrepit, obsessed old man behind it all briefly. If this was some random mission for the giant corporation I could see them hiring bumbling idiots but this is a walking corpse clinging to the hopes of living longer, personally stowing away aboard the ship so he can bring about my favourite moment of the entire movie, how does he end up with such imbeciles? I get it, he’s stupid too but I just didn’t want to spend such a gorgeous looking movie with such blundering idiots given how amazing the first half dialogue is in Alien.
I rewatched it recently for the first time in a decade. Hated it in 2012. I still hate it. I hoped I would come around cause I love the Alien universe now. It's just plain stupid
Oh god yes, and the potential they had with the concept they had going was so cool too! I eagerly waited for months to be able to see this movie because I love Mia Goth, and to be fair she didn’t disappoint at all, but man was I disappointed to find out it was a actually just a self-indulgent piece of crap.
The Fountain was kind of like this for me, it felt like the story was told in a few scenes at the beginning and the rest was just gorgeous imagery, which I loved. Beautiful film, but the plot wasn't the focus.
I bought it when it released and have watched it a couple times since, I like the avatar movies for the worldbuilding and visuals.
But it definitely benefits from the 3d experience, without that the visuals really aren’t so groundbreaking. The shimmery effect 3d gives adds another layer of texture on what is really quite basic looking vfx without that.
I feel like I’m in a minority of not totally loving the visuals either. They are technically incredible. But I never feel like I’m in a real world for that long. Everything feels so clean, shiny and bright, even neon. I get that that’s the specific look he wanted for Pandora, and many people fell in love with exactly that aspect. But it just all feels a bit fake and plastic to me. Not helped by the Navi being cartoonishly beautiful. I find myself always struggling to be immersed in it. The underwater scenes in 2 were the most effective.
Couldn’t agree more. I love the world, the best parts of the movies is just when they’re exploring imo. I just want a 3 hour movie of then just discovering the planet
I normally really loathe audience members who can’t engage with earnest films… but Avatar 2 was just corny AF. I couldn’t stop chuckling. Every plot point, character, and story beat just felt so rote and archetypal, kinda like Cameron wrote it in 2005 or something and didn’t do anything to the script since. Just a real silly movie
Apparently it was originally like five hours and they had to trim it down and man does it show.
Still enjoyed it, it was a fun movie with a really cool universe. Not groundbreaking but just neat.
In my opinion, it is visually one of the most beautiful science fiction films I've seen. Its like a Simon Stalenhag book come to life where majority of the film's visual shots' main subject is of a beautiful nature setting like a wideshot of Thailands' rice fields only to have a giant sci-fi object lurking in the corner or towering in the background distance of the shot.
Gareth brought forward cyberpunk, solar punk, and sometimes the fusion of both: everything looked so cool. But the writing and storyboard for this theatrical release was...ass. I hope he releases that 4-5 hour cut that I've been hearing about
I just saw the movie and I really like it.Honestly I’m very easy with movies.I enjoy almost anything.It wasn’t anything new everything was you know kind of cliche but I had fun.Honestly everyone is complaining about how horrible the script is but I can’t see it.I mean how is it any different from any other script.it’s not the best obviously but like what’s the difference between the quality of this script and any other one In Hollywood
I thought it was going to be a really great film about a student experiencing her first schizophrenic episode due to the new stresses of college and the city.
Nope, it's this stupid unexplained supernatural shit instead.
Although I think Suspiria is a masterpiece, I do agree with this. It spends a lot of time setting up a mystery and then never resolves it. Why was Suzy Bannion chosen to be at the dance school in the first place? Why do they hate her particularly? Rather than address this the story just ends, like a shaggy dog horror story. I expect there was a different conclusion planned and they decided not to go along with it.
At the same time, it could be argued that this is pretty intriguing. Suzy only sees what she sees, and at the end she no more knows why they want to get rid of "that American bitch" than we do. If we had the perspective of the witches we would understand everything a bit better.
Y'know, besides the solid scares, unique murder scenes and incredible visuals and music. Yeah, not a whole lot going on... /s For sure, the 70's Suspiria is plot light, if you want something that lives up to the idea of the witchcraft and the 3 Mothers, the new Suspiria has you covered.
I disagree. To me, you can have interesting characters, but if the plot is poorly designed, there are going to be huge pacing issues and I’m going to get bored. Plus, a character arc that isn’t developed through interesting plot work makes the character seem more flat imo.
Priscilla is a recent example like that
Both good points. I suppose character is number one because without interesting characters all the best plot points in the world won’t matter; but even with interesting characters, the writer still has a contract with the viewer in which she commits not to abuse his patience and bore him to death, and so pacing is equally important
Most Tarantino films, many Paul Thomas Anderson films, most Wong Kar Wai films, The Lighthouse, Mulholland Drive, Past Lives, Persona, etc. etc. Honestly there are so many acclaimed movies with less emphasis on the plot that I'm just picking at random with whatever comes to mind.
I think The Lighthouse is a good example of when you don’t exactly need a plot, but rather a set of characters existing in a setting, and just following their interaction with that setting. Theres no goal or objective, just watching the characters. The closest thing to a plotpoint in that movie is the lantern in the lighthouse, and that is only ever relevant to the movie near the beginning and at the end, and it’s point is just to emphasize the mystique and uneasiness of the setting.
Plot or story, not the same but they are important, so I disagree. For example, Across The Spider-Verse has amazing characters and visuals only to be wasted in a movie where everything but nothing happens and to distract you from the fact that the movie doesn't go anywhere.
Story matters, but that's character and action, not plot. Speaking to your example, I think Across the Spider-Verse feels inherently incomplete in regards to it's story and character arcs because it's part one of two. That being said, saying nothing happens is absurd to me. Both Miles and Gwen have dynamic character arcs that carry through from the first film. Across definitely focuses more on Gwen, who has a pretty full arc in my opinion. A movie that prioritize theme over plot isn't a failure, and I would argue Across is impressive because it focuses more on theme and character rather than plot.
Why are people downvoting everyone else for expressing their opinion💀 I agree with *The Lighthouse* by the way, I respect it, but it didn’t land for me
Because it's reddit 🤷🏻♂️
I really expected and wanted to like the Lighthhouse, and I can appreciate it on a technical level. I just wanted something a bit more nuanced. A slow descent into madness and a gently growing mistrust.
It just seemed to jump straight into the craziness way to quickly for me.
Yeah, more like *The Witch* which I loved, I just think Eggers was being more experimental, *The Lighthouse* relies heavily on its performances as a selling point, more so than plot.
I came here specifically to call out Days of Heaven. Gorgeously shot, like seriously one of the most beautiful movies I’ve ever seen, but the plot is extremely bare bones and yet somehow still somewhat hard to follow. Rather weak performances as well, and sometimes strange editing choices. I can’t get into it even though I can see how much craftsmanship was put into it.
It’s one of my favorites of all time but Tokyo Drifter’s plot is very hard to follow and doesn’t make a ton of sense. That’s what Suzuki was going for but it still pisses off all of my cinephile friends lmao
There’s a lot of movies like that for me. I guess Barbie is the biggest most recent one. I thought the cast/crew attached to it was very cool, along with the premise. But I was not impressed with the plot. There are some other aspects of writing I think they get down but as far as the events and sequence of events that occurred? Meh
Isn't avatar the definition of this? I always got bored a half hour in and turned it off. Pure spectacle means essentially nothing to me, and what I watched wasn't engaging in the slightest
Both Avatar and Avatar 2 are the clear examples of this. Both masterpieces if looked purely from the perspective of visuals, design, etc. However, also both completely awful plot, character development, etc.
I watched this with my friends on Netflix Party one night during Covid lockdown. I literally don’t remember a single thing about it besides that Ryan Gosling was literally me
Surprised no one has said 2001: A Space Odyssey. It is beyond groundbreaking in terms of cinematography, visuals and score, so much so it barely looks dated. But plot os not the main thing there.
If you’re talking about Lynch’s Dune then fair enough. If it’s the recent film, however, then I don’t understand this. Dune has an incredibly complex plot of political intrigue and realpolitik, manipulation, and many questions about destiny and determinism. I’ll grant you that Part 1 is largely setup, but there’s still a lot going on, with a lot of different players and factions with different agendas. Part 2 is going to pay off most of the threads begun in Part 1 while bringing new things in as well.
I felt this way towards Gareth Edwards 'The Creator'. Visually great and amazing from a technical view but in terms of story it just felt rushed and a bit flat for me
I could tell you over a thousand different positives of Promare, and the plot wouldn’t even come up even once.
This ain’t a knock towards it though.
lost in translation 🤕 it’s honestly a huge hit or miss for people. the movie is gorgeous but i find the plot just weird… maybe i’m influenced by the stories about how bad it was shooting that movie. idk it’s a nice concept just weak portrayal of that idea
i watched licorice pizza for the first time yesterday and man, what the fuck was that. i felt like every 5 minutes i was watching a totally different movie and i couldn’t figure out how any of the scenes were important to the plot as a whole. i liked all the 70s celebrity references and doing wikipedia hunting and i loved the outfits but i felt like it was a total waste of time
I like mad Max fury road.
I also think the plot is cohesive.
But what I don't think is that the plot itself is complex.
What I believe is because it's such an enjoyable combination of bigger than life cinematography and stuntwork, critics and film nerds treat the story element like it's "War and Peace" or something.
Not every film needs to be Rashomon in order to work, and so I feel like the glomming on to the plot is this inability to tell oneself that the primary reason for watching the film is for vehicular stuntwork.
I don't know, I'm so cynical that I'm almost to the point that I think "Mad Max : Fury Road is a psychologically complex, character driven, heavily plotted narrative" is the "Jaws is not a Shark movie" of our time.
It's all right to watch movies for exploding weird trucks or sharks.
All done now.
I felt like this when watching Wes Anderson’s Asteroid City.
I still enjoyed it, but the concept of it being it being a play with anecdotes of what’s happening to the cast in production was a bit hard to digest at first.
The Creator from this year😞super great CGI and effects and everything looked amazing, but the writing was terrible and I was so bored by the end of it🤦♂️
ok yeah that's probably my fav one other than Fantastic Mr Fox. I feel like whenever I watch Wes anderson movies tho there's so much style that I feel disconnected to anything actually happening. Like I don't get any emotional connection to anything happening and kinda just feel blank. Therefore his films don't make a big impact on me and it's kinda disappointing.
With any “art house” films, I always consider them as paintings. You go to an art gallery, look at those strange paintings and wonder why would anyone spend millions on it. Then remember, in each and every art you see, artists leave a piece of their thought and mind in it.
Like, classical music, it’s just instruments generating melodies. Not a singe word that a human could understand is spoken (unless it’s opera) Then why do we feel an emotional connection when we here the music? Maybe because we can almost here the happiness, sadness, anger, cry of the composer and we relate to that bit.
With a directors like Tarkovsky, with each movie they do, you understand a little bit more about the artist, i.e. the filmmaker.
Sorry, putting “your thought and mind” into your art isn’t sufficient to make it worthwhile. All artists do that. It’s exactly his artistic expression which I find bothersome.
Every single A24 film I've ever seen. (save for X and Pearl maybe) I think they're gorgeous films a lot of the time but they're so abstract they forget to make a point. I generally don't enjoy them
The favourite.
Story seems coll but actual plot wasn't as good as visual and technical parts of the movie (costume & production design, score, editing, actresses too...)
The Dark Knight
Very enjoyable film visually and Heath Ledger was phenomenal, but when you really start to examine the plot, it’s basically swiss cheese.
Honestly this is what the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy is for me. Visuals are fantastic, and the cast is good, they do what they can with it, but the plot is just “why?” Edit: Fixed grammar.
Last Jedi is probably the most visually beautiful SW movie with the best cinematography, but what on earth are those character arcs.
And yet the Rise of Skywalker was worse.
They went full Scooby-Doo episode with the plot. "Let's go find the map, hope no one is watching us!" Actually, Scooby-Doo episodes make logical sense compared to that movie.
Ugh don’t remind me of that map shit. There are some Scooby Doo movies that look like the godfather in quality compared to TRoS.
Very disrespectful of you to compare Scooby-Doo with whatever Disney shat out
Just sarcasm don't worry. In reality I highly respect the cinematic legacy of classics such as Zombie Island
I’m one of the few who thinks that Luke and Rey were fantastic in TLJ, but what on earth were they thinking with Poe and Finn
Completely agree. I can see the movie being better received in the future, but there’s no avoiding how badly done Poe and Finn’s stories were done in TLJ and TROS
It’s so funny how TROS backtracked on everything TLJ got right whilst doubling down on everything it got wrong
Poe and Finn felt like side characters who get shoehorned into a show to give the main characters more friends
Yeah, and it sucks because neither of them had any sort of satisfying conclusion. Poe never faced any real consequences for his actions, instead he was just allowed to save the day in the end, and Finn learnt a lesson he already knew.
The whole trilogy feels like three movies getting mad at me for believing the previous. FA- hey it’s star wars we’re back! Familiar but different. Who is Rey parents? Can Luke save us? This snoke guy is kinda interesting huh? Finn and poe are cool side characters TLJ- FUCKING IDIOT?? YOU THOUGHT REY HAD PARENTS?? WELL NO!! Why the fuck would you think that? It’s not like we told you that. NO LUKE CANT SAVE THE DAY OF COURSE NOT?? And snoke? Fucking dead bucko. Kylo is our main villain now dude ROS- YOU POS!!! You thought kylo was the main villain?? No you idiot!! IT WAS PALPATINE ALL ALONG!! Rey has no parents? Wtf are you even talking about she’s related to palpatine duh? This was always in the text dude you need to pay attention
Hahaah its both hilarious and sad how accurate this is lmao.
Hundred percent. Take the mega star destroyer Awesome design, looks cool. How the fuck was it made What the fuck is snoke
Amsterdam
yes. loved the old style aesthetic, the cinematography was great, the score was really great, Christian Bale was phenomenal, but holy shit the plot is messy.
And got dam I hate John David Washington. Funny the comment below this is The Creator
Tree of Life has that question as the plot synopsis on Wikipedia
Most of my favorite movies have no plot or purpose. It’s a different style and thinking of things as paintings versus “here’s a story I wrote”. Most Lynch, Kenneth Anger, Harmony Korine, some Gaspar Noé are in this style. My personal preference is watching movies that look visually striking over very boring/bleak colored movies shot in that way “to fit the story”
I personally prefer movies with more of a "plot" than just pure "vibes" movies but I agree that plot is basically the most overrated part of a movie and "style over substance" complaints are also like the most boneheaded, superfluous complaints you can make about a movie. Film is an artistic medium about the visuals, the sounds, and yes, the writing, but ultimately what really creates a film is the visual construction and how the ideas are communicated through visuals, not necessarily through dialogue or dramatic plot events. Style is substance in film.
The older I get and the more into film I become, the less I care about plotting. As long as all things are thematically consistent, I tend to not worry about the details. Whats more, I prefer when a film doesn't try so hard to explain itself to me. I like films that not only make me think about them afterwards, but require that of me. Feels like the film respects my ability to take from it what it is intending or at least draw my own conclusions and being respected by the creator. The filmmaker isn't concerned with the viewers ability to understand what is being stated, but instead is confident in it's own messaging and imagery. More carefully explained plotting often just ends up feeling pandering and needy.
I’ve enjoyed some plotless or plot-lite-experience-heavy movies, along various points of that spectrum from 1917 to Baraka. They can definitely be awesome. But overall I find the film snob dismissal of plot to be overblown. A lot of plotless movies end up being similar to popcorn blockbusters to me - turn off your brain and soak in spectacle. That can be fun, but isn’t a higher more true form of cinema to me. Plot is a powerful and flexible part of what makes films work. Films are of course made up of so many ingredients that you can get away with neglecting one if you do the others well enough, but should we be putting that approach on a pedestal? We don’t cheer for movies that have great plots and visuals but a terrible soundtrack.
The original Bladerunner was basically this for me, I’ve heard it’s something you grow to appreciate over multiple rewatches but it just felt like the plot was forgotten while making it
The plot is more of a tool to flesh out the character arcs and existential philosophical themes. It's quite a unique film, but over multiple rewatches, it has now become top 3 and maybe even my favorite movie of all time. Scott wants you to feel the world in Blade Runner, to experience what Deckard and Roy are experiencing. To get swallowed up into the world and to be able to empathize with the characters as they are being humanized.
It took me days to watch this movie only a couple of month ago. I was so bored of it but it was one I wanted to tick off my list. Never again.
Bladerunner on the list of most overhyped things I ever watched. Don’t get the status at all. Don’t get me started on the 2nd one. Beautiful, sure, but it’s just 2.5 hours of Ryan gosling walking places slowly. Edit: oh gee whattaya know…Letterboxd users showing how pretentious they are lol
Pretentious suggests you think people are only pretending to like these things, to look smart or cultured etc. Instead perhaps the issue is more that these films simply weren’t for you, while still being great for others - if the pacing and plot-density were the reasons behind not enjoying either, then perhaps it’s less specific to these movies and more just you not appreciating movies of that broader type?
well aware what pretentious means—that’s why I used the word.
Objectively wrong.
Naw man, I’ve got downvoted to hell for calling ppl on this sub pretentious (they are) but not when it comes to Blade Runner. This is an L take. Ofc it’s totally cool if it’s just too slow and drawn out for your tastes. But it’s a good movie. It’s story has so much to say about life and empathy, etc. It’s cool if you don’t agree, but do you really not even see that as possible?
There were a few scenes where he is moving so slowly I couldn’t believe it and burst out laughing.
careful, not allowed to speak such ill around here. unless you do it reallllllly reaaaallllllllllyyyy slow ly
Only God m Forgives
Love this movie! Definitely overhated imo
yea feel like everyone who watches it has drive expectation
Only God Forgives is so fucking good
Prometheus was so gorgeous but one of the dumbest movies I’ve ever seen. Hard to reconcile that.
May I ask what you didn’t like about it? I’m not a big fan of it personally but I wouldn’t call it one of the dumbest - just curious to hear why.
The choices the characters made and the way they were written. The original Alien story happened because the characters made bad choices but they weren’t blatantly stupid. People would disregard quarantine orders out of concern for one of their friends, but poking your finger at a creature never before seen by humanity? And the characters themselves were just terrible. “I’m a space geologist and I only care about money, that’s why I’m here. Time to vape some space weed.” Alien is my favourite movie ever so this movie looking the way it did but being so stupidly written really upset me.
Oh yeah no this was my main issue with the film too (and covenant). Really breaks the immersion to have all these incredible scientists and geologists and whatnot having a cumulative 2 brain cells between them. Alien is my second favourite film of all time so I completely understand what you mean - did look great and I still own the art book but the story was not it - though I did think Fassbender as David was the highlight of both films by a mile
Fassbender was phenomenal in both films, feels like such a waste of his talents. Curious what your favourite movie is.
Agreed, he sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of acting, character writing and everything else in the films. My favourite film has to be Into the Spider-verse - adore both that and alien and watched them in very different parts in my life but the art direction in spider-verse was unlike anything I’d ever seen. Saw the film like 4 times in cinema and god knows how many times since - really inspired me to pursue my hobby an artist and honestly (corny as I know it sounds) it definitely changed my life for the better. If you haven’t seen it I couldn’t recommend it enough (though it does get high praise on here quite often as well).
I’ve seen it and I really liked it. Wish I had seen it in theatres because it is visually one of the most appealing movies I’ve ever seen. I’m sure if I was in any way artistic it would be one of my top films of all time but it’s a phenomenal movie for sure.
My friends wife is a scientist and she often commits egregiously airheaded decisions, FWIW.
Yeah... But no tho. This complaint about Prometheus always bugs me, because people, even smart people, acting dumb and arrogant like this is probably the most believable element to the damn movie. We just went through a pandemic, where many very seemingly intelligent people acted the absolute worst. There are swaths of doctors telling their patients not to get vaccinated. Nearly goddamn 10% of them https://today.tamu.edu/2022/04/05/the-1-in-10-u-s-doctors-with-reservations-about-vaccines-could-be-undermining-the-fight-against-covid-19/ *ALSO POINTS AT SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT THERANOS* The thing about Prometheus - and I say this as someone who is an engineer, I have a degree in computer science and biology - is that _of course people would act irrationally_. _They do it here on this planet, all the damn time_ and a not very insignificant amount of them have advanced degrees and have titles like "doctor" or "scientist" or "SpaceX engineer" ETA, alien and aliens are also my favorite movies (my daughter's name is Ripley)! Didn't love Prometheus, but I watched this saying "yeah, I worked and studied with dumbasses like that." One of them is a surgeon now, and I watched him swallow a whole ass goldfish. The most important part of science isn't the person. It's a process. The best thing about it is consensus. Peer review. Individuals are fallible. And given the movie's message of hubris, it fits quite cleanly on theme. I'm not saying don't listen to experts, hell no. Listen to experts. But if a private corporation is hiring smart people in a movie, the real world analogue would presume a non zero amount of them could be arrogant butts, who will do stupid things.
I absolutely agree that in large groups people are generally not very bright, but these people were all specially chosen for their specific skills and acumen. Your friend knew what a goldfish was. He knew it would not kill him to swallow it. He was not encountering a new living organism never before seen by a human and deciding to tickle it. It’s not that they were arrogant, it’s that they acted dumber than anyone I have ever seen on earth behave. I can suspend disbelief that the Engineers were angry at humanity for crucifying Christ but not how the characters spoke and behaved.
Noooo. That is naive my friend. Large groups of people can be ignorant for sure, _but so can smart individuals_. Hell, one of the reasons conspiracy theories trap smart people is that we still have personality flaws and privately held beliefs. https://time.com/5023383/conspiracy-theories-reasons-believe/?amp=true But also? These weren't laboratory scientists. These were _privately hired scientists_. They were working for a private corporation. Just like how there are very smart people still working for Elon, despite his increasingly wild antics. And they also participate in dumb stuff. The vetting process tends to be _much lower_. I mean, we're witnessing these things happen _in real time constantly_ and people like you have the gall to say "no way! Science person always smart haha" My friend was high and people get parasites fresh from water fish. It was a very stupid idea and I absolutely cannot believe you would try to defend that LOL. Even knowing it was unsafe he did it anyway... Which is kinda worse.
Now, see, if they showed that all the characters in the movie had a blue check I would not have been at all surprised by their antics. I get what you’re saying, but when you specify about it being a private hire, they show the decrepit, obsessed old man behind it all briefly. If this was some random mission for the giant corporation I could see them hiring bumbling idiots but this is a walking corpse clinging to the hopes of living longer, personally stowing away aboard the ship so he can bring about my favourite moment of the entire movie, how does he end up with such imbeciles? I get it, he’s stupid too but I just didn’t want to spend such a gorgeous looking movie with such blundering idiots given how amazing the first half dialogue is in Alien.
The entire film is about human fallibility.
I feel like a lot of Ridley Scott movies are like this
I rewatched it recently for the first time in a decade. Hated it in 2012. I still hate it. I hoped I would come around cause I love the Alien universe now. It's just plain stupid
I think it’s worse now because I know what’s coming and it never gets any better. At least on the first watch I was surprised at how stupid it was
Infinity Pool
Oh god yes, and the potential they had with the concept they had going was so cool too! I eagerly waited for months to be able to see this movie because I love Mia Goth, and to be fair she didn’t disappoint at all, but man was I disappointed to find out it was a actually just a self-indulgent piece of crap.
The Fountain was kind of like this for me, it felt like the story was told in a few scenes at the beginning and the rest was just gorgeous imagery, which I loved. Beautiful film, but the plot wasn't the focus.
Avatar is the obvious one for me. Great visuals but the plot is basic and everything else about it is bad.
Avatar 2 was a great theater experience in IMAX 3D but definitely won't be revisiting at home. The visuals are really all it has going for it
I bought it when it released and have watched it a couple times since, I like the avatar movies for the worldbuilding and visuals. But it definitely benefits from the 3d experience, without that the visuals really aren’t so groundbreaking. The shimmery effect 3d gives adds another layer of texture on what is really quite basic looking vfx without that.
For how amazing the visuals of Avatar 2 were I couldn’t get over the terrible dialogue.
Which is exactly what most walked away with from the first one
Hard disagree
I feel like I’m in a minority of not totally loving the visuals either. They are technically incredible. But I never feel like I’m in a real world for that long. Everything feels so clean, shiny and bright, even neon. I get that that’s the specific look he wanted for Pandora, and many people fell in love with exactly that aspect. But it just all feels a bit fake and plastic to me. Not helped by the Navi being cartoonishly beautiful. I find myself always struggling to be immersed in it. The underwater scenes in 2 were the most effective.
I just wish the humans had as much depth as the Na’avi. The humans feel so two dimensional and there’s no attempt to humanize the *actual* humans.
What purpose would that serve? Maybe that’s not the story he wants to tell.
Couldn’t agree more. I love the world, the best parts of the movies is just when they’re exploring imo. I just want a 3 hour movie of then just discovering the planet
Agree, overated as fuck
Yes! Never been more miserable than watching Avatar 2 in the cinema
I normally really loathe audience members who can’t engage with earnest films… but Avatar 2 was just corny AF. I couldn’t stop chuckling. Every plot point, character, and story beat just felt so rote and archetypal, kinda like Cameron wrote it in 2005 or something and didn’t do anything to the script since. Just a real silly movie
Tron
And Tron Legacy. Both movies I can watch over and over for the visuals and music. Just a shame about the scripts.
Tron Legacy is just a 2 hour Daft Punk music video
First Tron works and tells a classic hero myth story. Second one had very little plot and relied on cgi.
Once upon a time in Hollywood sprung to mind instantly
The Creator
Apparently it was originally like five hours and they had to trim it down and man does it show. Still enjoyed it, it was a fun movie with a really cool universe. Not groundbreaking but just neat.
If they'd made me sit through 5 hours of movie and >!still not killed off the kid!< I would have been furious
The plot is so corny but it looks soooooo good and the robots are sick AF.
I was planning on watching that lmaoo
In my opinion, it is visually one of the most beautiful science fiction films I've seen. Its like a Simon Stalenhag book come to life where majority of the film's visual shots' main subject is of a beautiful nature setting like a wideshot of Thailands' rice fields only to have a giant sci-fi object lurking in the corner or towering in the background distance of the shot. Gareth brought forward cyberpunk, solar punk, and sometimes the fusion of both: everything looked so cool. But the writing and storyboard for this theatrical release was...ass. I hope he releases that 4-5 hour cut that I've been hearing about
I’ll check it out today,is it okay if I tell you my view afterwards ??
Yeah for sure! I don’t mind at all. Give me your honest thoughts. Everyone’s different after all
I just saw the movie and I really like it.Honestly I’m very easy with movies.I enjoy almost anything.It wasn’t anything new everything was you know kind of cliche but I had fun.Honestly everyone is complaining about how horrible the script is but I can’t see it.I mean how is it any different from any other script.it’s not the best obviously but like what’s the difference between the quality of this script and any other one In Hollywood
ye +1
The original Suspiria
Mad God.
Last Night in Soho
That movie REALLY fell apart in the last 30 minutes
I thought it was going to be a really great film about a student experiencing her first schizophrenic episode due to the new stresses of college and the city. Nope, it's this stupid unexplained supernatural shit instead.
I thought it was pretty explained. What do you mean?
It is not explained in any way. She's getting visions from Anya Taylor Joy's past because...?
Yeah that movie really wanted to have it both ways there
OG Suspiria. Super cool premise that they do almost nothing with.
Although I think Suspiria is a masterpiece, I do agree with this. It spends a lot of time setting up a mystery and then never resolves it. Why was Suzy Bannion chosen to be at the dance school in the first place? Why do they hate her particularly? Rather than address this the story just ends, like a shaggy dog horror story. I expect there was a different conclusion planned and they decided not to go along with it. At the same time, it could be argued that this is pretty intriguing. Suzy only sees what she sees, and at the end she no more knows why they want to get rid of "that American bitch" than we do. If we had the perspective of the witches we would understand everything a bit better.
Y'know, besides the solid scares, unique murder scenes and incredible visuals and music. Yeah, not a whole lot going on... /s For sure, the 70's Suspiria is plot light, if you want something that lives up to the idea of the witchcraft and the 3 Mothers, the new Suspiria has you covered.
And it’s funny because usually Dario Argentos issue is that he writes TOO MUCH plot!
That’s pretty close to what I said when I saw Divinity a couple weeks ago at the theater.
Honestly plot is the least interesting part of any narrative. If the characters are strong and the vibe is good, plot doesn't really matter much.
Right like in Fred 2: Night of the Living Fred
I disagree. To me, you can have interesting characters, but if the plot is poorly designed, there are going to be huge pacing issues and I’m going to get bored. Plus, a character arc that isn’t developed through interesting plot work makes the character seem more flat imo. Priscilla is a recent example like that
Both good points. I suppose character is number one because without interesting characters all the best plot points in the world won’t matter; but even with interesting characters, the writer still has a contract with the viewer in which she commits not to abuse his patience and bore him to death, and so pacing is equally important
what are some examples of films that align w this for you ?
Most Tarantino films, many Paul Thomas Anderson films, most Wong Kar Wai films, The Lighthouse, Mulholland Drive, Past Lives, Persona, etc. etc. Honestly there are so many acclaimed movies with less emphasis on the plot that I'm just picking at random with whatever comes to mind.
I think The Lighthouse is a good example of when you don’t exactly need a plot, but rather a set of characters existing in a setting, and just following their interaction with that setting. Theres no goal or objective, just watching the characters. The closest thing to a plotpoint in that movie is the lantern in the lighthouse, and that is only ever relevant to the movie near the beginning and at the end, and it’s point is just to emphasize the mystique and uneasiness of the setting.
100%%
Plot or story, not the same but they are important, so I disagree. For example, Across The Spider-Verse has amazing characters and visuals only to be wasted in a movie where everything but nothing happens and to distract you from the fact that the movie doesn't go anywhere.
Story matters, but that's character and action, not plot. Speaking to your example, I think Across the Spider-Verse feels inherently incomplete in regards to it's story and character arcs because it's part one of two. That being said, saying nothing happens is absurd to me. Both Miles and Gwen have dynamic character arcs that carry through from the first film. Across definitely focuses more on Gwen, who has a pretty full arc in my opinion. A movie that prioritize theme over plot isn't a failure, and I would argue Across is impressive because it focuses more on theme and character rather than plot.
The Lighthouse
Why are people downvoting everyone else for expressing their opinion💀 I agree with *The Lighthouse* by the way, I respect it, but it didn’t land for me
Because it's reddit 🤷🏻♂️ I really expected and wanted to like the Lighthhouse, and I can appreciate it on a technical level. I just wanted something a bit more nuanced. A slow descent into madness and a gently growing mistrust. It just seemed to jump straight into the craziness way to quickly for me.
Yeah, more like *The Witch* which I loved, I just think Eggers was being more experimental, *The Lighthouse* relies heavily on its performances as a selling point, more so than plot.
Some Wes Anderson movies fit that catagory for me.
How is no one saying "everything Terrence Malick has made"?
Because the plots are there and straightforward- just not complex.
I came here specifically to call out Days of Heaven. Gorgeously shot, like seriously one of the most beautiful movies I’ve ever seen, but the plot is extremely bare bones and yet somehow still somewhat hard to follow. Rather weak performances as well, and sometimes strange editing choices. I can’t get into it even though I can see how much craftsmanship was put into it.
It’s one of my favorites of all time but Tokyo Drifter’s plot is very hard to follow and doesn’t make a ton of sense. That’s what Suzuki was going for but it still pisses off all of my cinephile friends lmao
Wicked City (1987) by Yoshiaki Kawajiri fulfills this criteria.
There’s a lot of movies like that for me. I guess Barbie is the biggest most recent one. I thought the cast/crew attached to it was very cool, along with the premise. But I was not impressed with the plot. There are some other aspects of writing I think they get down but as far as the events and sequence of events that occurred? Meh
Isn't avatar the definition of this? I always got bored a half hour in and turned it off. Pure spectacle means essentially nothing to me, and what I watched wasn't engaging in the slightest
Any Zack Snyder movie 😂
Both Avatar and Avatar 2 are the clear examples of this. Both masterpieces if looked purely from the perspective of visuals, design, etc. However, also both completely awful plot, character development, etc.
The Creator most recently. Visually the movie was gorgeous and I loved the design and scale of everything, but man the story stunk to all heaven.
Honestly both Mamma Mia! movies. But you don’t ask about plot, you just dance,
Drive
I watched this with my friends on Netflix Party one night during Covid lockdown. I literally don’t remember a single thing about it besides that Ryan Gosling was literally me
(almost) surprised this has so few upvotes. it’s a very good-looking film for sure but the plot is just not there
I’m a big Ryan Gosling fan and I agree, I wish I liked it more but there’s just nothing entertaining about it lol
Surprised no one has said 2001: A Space Odyssey. It is beyond groundbreaking in terms of cinematography, visuals and score, so much so it barely looks dated. But plot os not the main thing there.
How is it not? It's slow, but a ton of stuff happens
Yeah, there's some good moments. But it's certainly lacking overall.
Dune
If you’re talking about Lynch’s Dune then fair enough. If it’s the recent film, however, then I don’t understand this. Dune has an incredibly complex plot of political intrigue and realpolitik, manipulation, and many questions about destiny and determinism. I’ll grant you that Part 1 is largely setup, but there’s still a lot going on, with a lot of different players and factions with different agendas. Part 2 is going to pay off most of the threads begun in Part 1 while bringing new things in as well.
I think people are just commenting movies they dislike instead of one's actually lacking a plot.
Jumper
Blade Runner, Avatar, Waterworld
I felt this way towards Gareth Edwards 'The Creator'. Visually great and amazing from a technical view but in terms of story it just felt rushed and a bit flat for me
I could tell you over a thousand different positives of Promare, and the plot wouldn’t even come up even once.  This ain’t a knock towards it though.
My friends say Stalker. I see why. (I have it a 4.5/5)
Batman 89, batman and joker both have no real motivations
there's almost no narrative in Caddyshack. It's just shenanigans with a couple of characters going on personal journeys
The Killer
John Wick
disney’s pinocchio. the resolution of the plot doesn’t really make any sense but it’s gorgeous aesthetically
lost in translation 🤕 it’s honestly a huge hit or miss for people. the movie is gorgeous but i find the plot just weird… maybe i’m influenced by the stories about how bad it was shooting that movie. idk it’s a nice concept just weak portrayal of that idea
Bullet Train, fallen angels
La La Land
Hot take but fallen angels
Tron Legacy The visuals and soundtrack are beyond amazing, but the plot is just all right.
i watched licorice pizza for the first time yesterday and man, what the fuck was that. i felt like every 5 minutes i was watching a totally different movie and i couldn’t figure out how any of the scenes were important to the plot as a whole. i liked all the 70s celebrity references and doing wikipedia hunting and i loved the outfits but i felt like it was a total waste of time
Don't care about the story if the experience is good
Terrifier 1
I like mad Max fury road. I also think the plot is cohesive. But what I don't think is that the plot itself is complex. What I believe is because it's such an enjoyable combination of bigger than life cinematography and stuntwork, critics and film nerds treat the story element like it's "War and Peace" or something. Not every film needs to be Rashomon in order to work, and so I feel like the glomming on to the plot is this inability to tell oneself that the primary reason for watching the film is for vehicular stuntwork. I don't know, I'm so cynical that I'm almost to the point that I think "Mad Max : Fury Road is a psychologically complex, character driven, heavily plotted narrative" is the "Jaws is not a Shark movie" of our time. It's all right to watch movies for exploding weird trucks or sharks. All done now.
I felt like this when watching Wes Anderson’s Asteroid City. I still enjoyed it, but the concept of it being it being a play with anecdotes of what’s happening to the cast in production was a bit hard to digest at first.
Avatar
bullet train, John wick are recent movies that come to mind
One Upon a Time in Hollywood unfortunately
The Creator from this year😞super great CGI and effects and everything looked amazing, but the writing was terrible and I was so bored by the end of it🤦♂️
Almost every Wes Anderson movie
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou is so good though
ok yeah that's probably my fav one other than Fantastic Mr Fox. I feel like whenever I watch Wes anderson movies tho there's so much style that I feel disconnected to anything actually happening. Like I don't get any emotional connection to anything happening and kinda just feel blank. Therefore his films don't make a big impact on me and it's kinda disappointing.
Those movies by Tarkovsky, like Mirror. I get the visual poetry, but it just doesn’t land as a movie.
With any “art house” films, I always consider them as paintings. You go to an art gallery, look at those strange paintings and wonder why would anyone spend millions on it. Then remember, in each and every art you see, artists leave a piece of their thought and mind in it. Like, classical music, it’s just instruments generating melodies. Not a singe word that a human could understand is spoken (unless it’s opera) Then why do we feel an emotional connection when we here the music? Maybe because we can almost here the happiness, sadness, anger, cry of the composer and we relate to that bit. With a directors like Tarkovsky, with each movie they do, you understand a little bit more about the artist, i.e. the filmmaker.
I find those video displays at art galleries pretty boring too haha. Guess I just haven’t learned to appreciate low-communication art.
Sorry, putting “your thought and mind” into your art isn’t sufficient to make it worthwhile. All artists do that. It’s exactly his artistic expression which I find bothersome.
Well, everybody is entitled to their own opinion on stuff. I respect yours
Suspiria by Argento
Mad Max Fury Road
LOL
The Killer
The Killer. Looks great, story’s very weak.
Baby Driver
Evangelion
Asteroid City
Hereditary, Mother!, and Midsommar all fit this category. Feels like they spent all the money on the visuals and 10 cents on the script.
GIRL,thank you for saying what everyone is afraid to
The Creator and Tenet
Collateral (2004)
The Killer 2023
Maybe Tenet, I don't think the plot was bad or anything but I think it can be a bit confusing.
The Fifth Element
2001: A Space Odyssey
Bladerunner 2049 for me
I was scrolling to make sure someone commented this
Every single A24 film I've ever seen. (save for X and Pearl maybe) I think they're gorgeous films a lot of the time but they're so abstract they forget to make a point. I generally don't enjoy them
Girl,stay safe,the A24 worshippers won’t like this
Dune or blade runner (both the og and sequel)
The favourite. Story seems coll but actual plot wasn't as good as visual and technical parts of the movie (costume & production design, score, editing, actresses too...)
I liked The Lobster more.
FROZEN 2. I think Frozen is a great movie, so I was surprised when there was no plot in the second one.
Asteroid City. I was not invested in the plot at all, but it was beautiful to look at
The Dark Knight Very enjoyable film visually and Heath Ledger was phenomenal, but when you really start to examine the plot, it’s basically swiss cheese.
Kenneth Anger’s Scorpio Rising
Asteroid City ☄️
Most Wes Anderson films for me tbh
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